Speculations

[tropic basin]

that was in April!
#friday-facts message

[tardy quarry]

wait, did they change how combat drones follow u?

it seems a lot better than how they are now

I’m excited

[twilit plover]

my attempt at a bingo card

i struggled to fill things out near the end

[vivid turret]

Only 4 FFFs remain before release.
What might they be?

[misty falcon]

We had a "3rd FFF" for and . I assume we'll get another one for , and possibly space.
And there's at least some QoL to show.

[dreamy eagle]

I think the final one is something like a "the journey here, see you next monday" or another type of season ending FFF

[tropic basin]

I was writing above that we could get another Fulgora FFF, but then I realised the Tesla Turret was the 3rd one.
Vulcanus got the 3rd today. Gleba is already at 4.

(if you count the leggy one)

[tardy quarry]

do u count rocket turret fff a Gleba fff?

[tardy quarry]

my ear fff when

[lunar wind]

Soon we'll instead have to speculate if/how many fff's will be released after the expansion. I'm certain that we will see one
talking about how the release went, but after that, who knows

[dreamy eagle]

I think they still have things they want to tell us about. So they'll continue for a while. And then at some point they'll have a "the FFFs will go on a break" or even potentially that they will end

[tropic basin]

Interesting question. I did not.
The Rocket Turret FFF was before Gleba so it was entirely unrelated to the planet.
But the Tesla Turret FFF is also unrelated to Fulgora, either because it's before the Fulgora enemy FFF or there are no Fulgora enemies. At least no moving ones that can be used for the demonstration. So:
Gleba 3-4
Vulcanus 3
Fulgora 2

[tropic basin]

If we really get a simulacrum as a replacement for moving the Spidertron higher up in the crafting tree, it'll be covered before release.
I'm so sure of that I'd almost bet money on it.
FFFs also serve the purpose to teach us the major features and how to use them. The excavator is one of these major features.

[stray wharf]

It should be noted that the Spidertron itself famously was not revealed before 1.0 shipped. To anybody.

[tardy quarry]

tbh at this rate the final planet may not be revealed

unless they go for full content fffs for the next 4

if so I would expect 1 Gleba, 1 Fulgora, 2 Aquilo

[hybrid briar]

I don't think they would ask streamers to avoid spoiling aquilo even after embargo / release date, and then put it in an FFF

[olive seal]

Any speculation on the "abrasive" cloud? Apparently it will not matter if vulcanus is the first planet. Could there be some precision machined gear thay will get affected by it? Or maybe some kind of new weapon?

[tardy quarry]

did they ask them to not spoil Aquilo even after release?

[misty falcon]

Only during embargo, and generally in reviews

[hybrid briar]

I think they expect the content creators to release gradually rather than jumping straight to it, not a strict requirement just trying not to be like "AND YOU WIN BY _________"

[misty falcon]

After that, it's common courtesy to not spoil stuff

[hybrid briar]

aye

[misty falcon]

That said, some people will obviously leak it at embargo and other players on release

But only if you look for it

That's just human nature

[late sentinel]

The idea that factorio can even have ‘spoilers’ is a controversial one

[misty falcon]

Which is why I think people will spoil it without tags on release

They don't consider it spoilers

[tropic basin]

You're no cool.

[hidden dune]

I think it's either Tesla turret or the Spidertrons
With spidertrons you can create a massive squad, capable of damage checking any Demolisher, without the need to combine different sources of damage

You can just make a lot of spidertrons

So it would be interesting, if the Demolisher was capable to disable them with it's shockwave attack

Not completely, still making them a viable addition to the boss battle. But requiring to use something more than just spidertrons

[crystal dune]

Unlike turrets, spidertrons don't occupy any space

You can stack like 100 of them in one tile of space

You could theoretically use that to instantly deliver a single volley strong enough to blow up the demolisher

[red crow]

They only mentioned defender not destroyer capsules, maybe the demolisher is highly vulnerable to electric damage

[stray wharf]

My guess is that it exists to hose Tesla turrets/gun, Spidertrons, or both.

[fossil hawk]

Honestly I could see an Aquillo Earendel write up as the second to last FFF before release or the first post release FFF.

Think a teaser would be a Wube thing to do

[stray wharf]

Remember a year ago when Kovarex said that item productivity researches cap out at purple and space science? My completely wild guess is that they probably realized that it was too easy to cheese that and went for a more traditional research scaling system. That is, the first few tiers may be Nauvis-only, but later tiers will use planetary packs.

[tropic basin]

the reddit comment? do you have the link to that?

[timid crescent]

I still think you're misinterpreting that statement

It's been a while since I've seen it though

[tropic basin]

me too, that's why I want to read it again

I think it says there're some infinite researches that don't even need space science.

and won't, ever

steel is red and green only iirc

[timid crescent]

iirc the statement wasn't that all item prod researches don't use more than purple and space science, just that all the researches aren't tiered like mining prod

They need x packs, and never more than x packs

Something like supercapacitor productivity would certainly need EM science

[tropic basin]

It's not in the pinned messages, I looked there before asking for the link :/

[stray wharf]

What I'm speculating is that they may have changed their minds and made them tiered.

[timid crescent]

They could, but that would go against their initial reasoning

you'd no longer have something for your Nauvis factory to do once they 'run out'

[stray wharf]

They could leave steel and plastic alone. It's more about blue circuits and LDS.

Specifically the quality implications of maxing them out (or even just getting close).

[timid crescent]

They can handle it in a different way as well

Including ingredients in the crafting tree that aren't recyclable reduces the effectiveness of recycling intermediaries overall

Spidertrons are the best example, there's little point quality cycling it's ingredients because the fish will be the bottleneck

[stray wharf]

So how would Fulgora deal with blue circuits and/or LDS not being recycleable?

[timid crescent]

Obviously they wouldn't be the non-recyclable intermediaries

But what if something like supercapacitors or superconducting wire aren't?

[stray wharf]

Well, since "fish breeding" is a thing, if you can manage to get a stockpile of Q3 fish, then you can just maintain that stockpile in perpetuity.

[tropic basin]

going through Kovarex' reddit posts from a year ago, his code wisdom isn't appreciated in r/ProgrammerHumor 😂

[timid crescent]

Then cycling circuits for T3 quality modules isn't useful anymore

Can't know how many products would be affected by something like this though

[tropic basin]

I believe the best method to make Q4 modules is to make Q4 ingredients, then craft the modules.

[stray wharf]

OK, but what about everything else you'd use quality cycling blue circuits for? It just seems like a very strange hack for something that's easily fixed by just not doing item productivity research that way.

[tropic basin]

Can use prod mods with ingredients, not with the mods.

[timid crescent]

I also just don't see the issue that you're talking about with item prod research

Getting anything more than 70-100% prod would take far too long to be worth pursuing over better technology

[stray wharf]

The issue is that blue circuit and LDS productivity researches are cheap in terms of megabase scales. The fact that you can max one of out in a dozen hours at fairly reasonable research rates in SA is a problem.

[timid crescent]

I don't see that as a problem

plus calling 500M+ science packs 'cheap' seems like a stretch, even for megabase

[stray wharf]

And you don't even have to max them out; for blue circuits, all you need is level 13; for LDS, you need 20.

[stray wharf]

It is for an SA megabase that only needs to produce purple science + space.

[timid crescent]

So where's the issue?

If you put in the thought, time and effort, it pays off

[stray wharf]

It really isn't much "thought, time and effort" though. That's my point. You don't even need high quality prods and speeds to do it.

[timid crescent]

It is a lot of time and effort though, especially in comparison to just unlocking everything and beating the game 'normally'

[stray wharf]

But it really isn't that much time or effort; it's a side project. You can just have Nauvis chewing away on this stuff in the background, especially once you have Fulgora and Vulcanus processing going strong.

It's not like that SPM will go to waste when you start researching other stuff.

Just don't be surprised if they scale up how item productivity researches work.

[timid crescent]

I just think that setting up a 10k spm+ megabase on nauvis before even going to another planet is a huge waste of time

I won't be surprised, so long as they explain why

[stray wharf]

Who said anything about "before even going to another planet?"

Everything I was talking about assumed that you have Foundries and EMPs.

[timid crescent]

So you've already gotten a decent way into the game then? I just don't see this as an issue

If you want to spend your time optimising your base for a specific infinite research over others, go for it

I'd like to beat the game first

[tropic basin]

LDS is 15 levels, no?
+100% from modules
+50% from Foundry

and modules are not cheap (presumably)

[timid crescent]

You can't qualty cycle LDS in the foundry

[stray wharf]

The Foundry LDS recipe now uses molten metals, so you can't really recycle it there.

[tawny snow]

however what you can do now is make from just , since fluids won't matter

[tropic basin]

ok, I did not read that part of the convo. was busy looking for the reddit comments

do we even need large amounts of legendary LDS?

if not, we could just chuck a few quality modules in the foundries and leech off what we get from rocket making

[vivid turret]

from since fluids won't matter.

[tawny snow]

legendary lds are great for personal equipment stuff on a smaller scale and on a larger one they can be recycled back to (you already had the plastic, so it's mainly the other 2)

[tropic basin]

red undergrounds might be a better way to make quality steel
You can use the Foundry, it eats a lot of gears, so you need few crafting machines for a relatively high throughput

will need to recycle the gears back to plates though

[worn vigil]

im strongly hoping for the rogue flying robots on fulgora as a thieving enemy that steal from logistic chests, this will give a reason to use something like the tesla turret there and a motivation for unlocking it. plus, since lightning is the damage threat there, rouge bots would be a nice addition as a non damaging enemy. I know it's been suggested before but im just putting in my voucher.

to clarify im suggesting the bots come from some of the cities around the map, not like spontaneously converted bots from your own fleet

[tropic basin]

Never heard this idea before. I like it.

Gleba: beefy enemies
Vulcanus: passive enemies
Fulgora: stealing enemies

[winged pivot]

steel might have prod research, in that case no

[crimson bough]

What do the robots do with the resources they steal

[tropic basin]

Steel is one of the Nauvis infinite productivity researches, so ..

[winged pivot]

ah, you were comparing it to LDS, my b

[tropic basin]

Red Undergrounds have a lot of resources in the recipe, so few crafting machines (= few modules) for high throughput

not sure it's actually a good idea, because recycling the legendary gears for iron plates and then processing it into steel could ruin the advantageousness.

[hidden dune]

Stealing would be to annoying
What if they disable your machines?

[misty falcon]

What if they rotated your inserters

[tropic basin]

I'd be more concerned about them stealing only from logistics chest. That way the enemies are opt-in.

[winged pivot]

what if they wololo your bots?

[worn vigil]

im thinking electronic items would have a "techno value" that acts as the pollution on fulgora, so whenever an item is produced it emits techno pollution which can potentially attract rouge bots

rouge bots might not fly out during night-time when theres lightning storms, so you could prioritize making your electronic type items during the night (lol)

im just thinking, why go out of their way to make unique pollution types a thing if you're only making one new pollution type

[tardy quarry]

what if there’s no enemies on Fulgora, since it was originally the demolishers?

I find people hard to accept a no enemy planet

[timid crescent]

The statements that imply the last planet doesn't have enemies makes me think that Fulgora will have enemies to maintain symmetry with Vulcanus and Gleba

Probably similar to the territories on Vulcanus I wouldn't expect them to expand though

[stray wharf]

Fulgora with static enemies that are vulnerable to artillery shells from Vulcanus.

Gleba enemies that are made easier to kill with the stunning effect of Tesla turrets from Fulgora.

Vulcanus enemies that are vulnerable to the long range and mass fire DPS of rocket turrets and/or Spiders.

[timid crescent]

I suspect the tesla gun to be especially good at killing demolishers

Although maybe that's too obvious and they gave demolishers a lot of electric resistance

[stray wharf]

I suspect that the cloud attack is specifically meant to stop that 😉

[timid crescent]

How so? you can still run around and kite it while shooting it

[stray wharf]

Presumably it would deflect electric attacks or something.

[hybrid briar]

this is making me picture volcanic eruption lightning which is one of the coolest things

[knotty sail]

IDK if it will work, but I'm going to try nukes and hand-targeted artillery on demolishers.

[timid crescent]

I just think the lightning forking to all the different segments would do a lot of damage

[knotty sail]

I thought only the head was vulnerable to damage.

[timid crescent]

Everywhere takes damage, the body segments just have much higher resistance

[hybrid briar]

For example, at the moment if you alt-click a segment then Factoriopedia shows you the body resistances but you need to click on the head to see the head resistances. Ideally all body parts link to the same page which can show you both sets of resistances. Likewise we need to clarify somewhere that segments take damage individually but all damage is transferred to the creature as a whole (which is really the head).

so every segment taking damage is equivalent to any other, it's all a shared pool, but it means that you can apply damage in an area and it will be more effective than single-target dps

[timid crescent]

Hence I belive will be quite effective

Maybe not for the biggest ones though? hard to tell given we don't know how much health they'll end up having

Just that the smallest one has 30k hp

[worn vigil]

ahh wow i didnt even think of that, brilliant

[tropic basin]

relevant comment by V:
#friday-facts message

[timid crescent]

Yeah I would be surprised if it worked on the big demolishers

30k hp on the smallest one means 6 or 7 digit hp on the big ones imo

[stray wharf]

What kind of regen would it have to survive multiple nukes in succession?

[tropic basin]

maybe it's not the HP that scales, but the regen?

[timid crescent]

I don't think nukes scale with explosive damage(?) so with enough resistance the 100 and 400 damage explosions would do a lot less than the theoretical maximum 50k damage

[serene sage]

regen has to scale or else the problem becomes sustaining damage output, which isn't significantly harder and becomes boring quickly

I think HP will scale too though

to make sure you can't kill arbitrarily big worms with rockets that "only" do 30k damage

[red crow]

Or they just scale it with the resistance...

[leaden socket]

I think it should be both

[tropic basin]

yeah, that makes sense

[tardy quarry]

so Gleba is getting a rework

I knew that Wube is good enough to do it with the time remaining

[dreamy eagle]

What is the source on that?

[tropic basin]

why is it cropped like that?

[tardy quarry]

posted by trupen on Youtube

http://youtube.com/post/UgkxAKg4NYlj0yTxaVyec7FBA8qYvco1-CIA?si=oNS2z8TMNvvbkUmm

[timid crescent]

"rework" is maybe a stretch given Bilka's wording

[misty falcon]

The change is very Wube-like, and interesting.

[late sentinel]

lol this nda is so funny

"wube are fixing it the way they do" - soul burn

[spare aurora]

Even just some numbers tweaks would probably move it from worst to , meh. Larger patches, more often but still uncommon. Maybe a 20% increase to spoil time or research to improve it a lil. Shift a reward or two to gleba as well.

And gleba probably ends up pretty bearable

[open abyss]

A thing I'm concerned about is that from what we've been shown fruit processing only replaces oil, ore smelting and everything that comes out of it is apparently the same

So even after ore richness tweaks gleba might end up being too similar to nauvis gameplay wise

[stray wharf]

This is a structural problem with the planet though. Or rather, a structural problem with the nature of Factorio.

Oil processing is a side-show in Factorio's resource model; stuff is made mostly of iron and copper goods. As such, any planet that focuses on oil processing is going to be focusing on something that's a resource sideshow. It needs some other way to get the important stuff.

Vulcanus focuses on making iron and copper more efficiently. Fulgora went a completely different route for its resourcing model by inverting the production tree. But you can't do something like that everywhere.

The ideal solution would be to make it possible for infrastructure to be built out of things other than iron and copper. That is theoretically doable within the Factorio model, but it would involve a lot of alternate recipes, which breaks the recycler. There are ways to mitigate that, but it would require a top-to-bottom rethinking of the whole intermediate tree within Factorio. Which obviously they aren't going to do 1 month from release.

[shrewd citrus]

I personally didn't mind the Old Gleba much, but the new one is absolutely wild

and I want to very strongly state that it feels unique

[stray wharf]

"Absolutely wild" levels of changes being made a month from release is a bit... disconcerting.

[shrewd citrus]

I didn't say the changes were wild

just that the gameplay loop of the planet is wild

[vivid turret]

Do you find it fun?

[shrewd citrus]

plus, don't read too much into what so and so streamer is complaining about, each person's playstyle is different and their perception of rewards is different. SA has a lot of stuff to do, so it's entirely possible to just forget about the fact that X and Y mechanics even exist

[shrewd citrus]

holy crap yes

[vivid turret]

Swell.

[shrewd citrus]

as of right now, in my opinion, the gleba unlocks are on par with the other planets'

[tawny snow]

that's great to hear

[shrewd citrus]

and it's tempting to go Gleba first

[open abyss]

Hard to imagine something that competes with 50% free prod but sounds promising

[tardy quarry]

maybe its also a 50% prod machine

but on what

[shrewd citrus]

this is unrelated to Gleba and its rewards, but it's like people complaining that X science unlocks, say, parametrised blueprints or train interrupts, because they don't use them. ergo, X science sucks

(parametrised blueprints and train interrupts are not science unlocks, I just used them illustratively)

[tardy quarry]

there’s just three types of intermediates that can get prod: metal products, electronics products, chemical products

unless I missed an entire group of intermediates thats it

[open abyss]

But with how free oil is on two other planets I'm not sure chemical even needs an improvement

I was hoping gleba's tech leans more into military stuff

[shrewd citrus]

again, unrelated to anything specific, but keep in mind that raw production isn't the only factor in SA anymore. you have to be a lot more mindful of stuff like power consumption, area, delivery times and other stuff

and not just on space platforms

assembling machines 3 and advanced logistic networks are fundamentally different benefits but they're both useful

[tawny snow]

I don't think a chemplant mk2 is that useless, even if oil is free, reducing your consumption can still be beneficial (less mining sites, less oil trains if you use those, etc.) + water limited environments like fulgora or platforms benefit a lot too

and you can get crazy with alt recipes since recycler doesn't care about chem stuff, biochamber sort of does this with plastic already

[tardy quarry]

I agree. People claim that power and space are free but that’s not how I think. If we have a chemplant that’s 4x faster and have more prod potential, it will definitely be attractive even if oil is ‘free’

just think about how many steps u can chain in oil products: petroleum->sulfur->acid-> battery

or a plastic printer

with how good foundry and EMP are, I think we do need a plastic printer

[shrewd citrus]

another tidbit about SA's scale:

#space-age message

After about 90 hours I just started step 6, and I'm expecting step 6 to take me... I don't even know, maybe even another 90 hours

[tardy quarry]

all the intermediates in base game btw

also theres a new machine on Aquilo

[tawny snow]

the mighty barreler mk2

[tardy quarry]

tbh the Aquilo machine looks capable for chemical recipes

perhaps its a super fast chemplant

with some prod bonus

if so, what left for Gleba?

[open abyss]

Could be something related to power consumption/pollution, might be relevant for space platforms and the last planet

Would also explain the complaint about rewards not being great specifically until late game

[tawny snow]

with the number of fluid inputs/outputs, the aquillo machine reminds me more of a refinery than a chemplant

[stray wharf]

Why not both?

[tawny snow]

hoping for a crazy recipe with 3 fl inputs, 3 fl outputs and maybe some solid action too

[tawny snow]

could be, in fact that was what I expected before the gleba fff came around

[silk citrus]

With the introduction of quality modules affecting item attributes, I wonder if that opens up space for other module protoypes like perhaps a cryogenic module which could restore the freshness of spoilable ingredients. I've seen a lot of proposals for refrigerated storage but I think this would be a more engaging solution (requires the items to still be in transit and processed to take advantage). I don't know if there are other new unreleased item mechanics, but some other attributes along this idea could be temperature, concentration (for volatile compounds, or radioactive ones with half lives)

I can imagine the UI could get quite cluttered with too many of these mechanics though, so while it would certainly provide interesting gameplay opportunities, I concede it's unlikely there's much beyond spoilage/quality

[stray wharf]

On the matter of "what did they change on Gleba", I mentioned a while back the possibility of an alternate rocket part recipe, a way to produce rocket parts with mostly Gleba's production, rather than iron and copper.

That would allow you to invest more into dealing with Gleba's unique mechanics and less into rebuilding blue circuit and LDS infrastructure. And you wouldn't need to make too many changes to the game to make it work.

[tardy quarry]

this solution kinda make recipe prod for recket parts less attractive tho

I mean lds, rocket fuel and blue chips

my idea was having a single ore patch instead of iron copper and stone, and the mined result can spoil into iron copper and stone at different time

[hybrid briar]

at different times how?

there can only be one spoiled result for an item

[stray wharf]

If the problem is having to set up an entire furnace stack, circuit processing, and the like to make blue circuits and LDS, that doesn't really change that. It just gives you a different way to get ore. Even if you can get plates directly, that just removes the furnace stack.

And if you get rid of the ores, then Vulcanus only has one place to send calcite.

[fallow flint]

wait youve played with the reworked Gleba?

[worn vigil]

I suspect if there are enemies on fulgora they will be weak to explosive damage to incentivize delivering coal products to fulgora to help tie the whole interplanetary shipping thing together. Wouldn't it be great if gleba had a useful export like a stack of whatever gleba product can yield like 1000 coal (not directly but like, maybe a way to use the biochamber to extract carbon from heavy oil, idk?). This would potentially put less strain on space platforms sending synthetic coal down to fulgora. I just think theres some missed opportunities if they dont make the planets symbiotic with one another.

[spare aurora]

Player attention is the most expensive resource in the game. Its finite, hard to extract and doesnt scale up

So free oil isn’t always so free

[worn vigil]

I hope we get different phases of ice on aquilo like ice 7

and coolant as flamethrower ammo for a frost attack (maybe demolishers are weak to frost attacks)

[shrewd citrus]

yes, but I have to be very vague with what I discuss or else I get put on leaderchild's strangle list

[crystal dune]

With the what

I've logged on for the first time in a few days

What did I miss?

Anything juicy already in public knowledge?

[misty falcon]

We already had the police keeping eye

[crystal dune]

Oh well, surely it won't be worse than the old Gleba
Which I was mostly ok with (in my very limited knowledge of it of course)

Then again that's exactly what I said when JG said the planet icons were getting changed

And then, to my horror, the Gleba icon went from to

[late sentinel]

I think the entire modding community will request this to be false

[viscid ferry]

Did someone already get reprimanded since the Lan?

[restive linden]

So are the gleba changes actually an entire rework or just balances

[worn vigil]

I'm not a beta tester but it sounded like it was mainly the rewards that were the issue, particularly the early ones.

[fallow flint]

No worries! Just got a bit confused at your wording (no worries about that either)

[tardy quarry]

tbh I think its only the mining part annoying

the furnace part we already have blueprints

the thing that annoys me is that we need to find iron, setup miners, find copper, setup miner, find stone, setup miners

and those patches are small

and probably not very frequent

what if we can get ore from fruit?

so there’s no need to setup miners

and Gleba will truly become a planet where u grow free resources

a planet without resource depletion at all

this way players can focus on throughput even more, without worrying about spoiling items as they’re not loosing finite resource

[stray wharf]

That just generally doesn't make sense. Iron and copper don't appear out of nowhere. Neither do the other chemicals plants need, but given Gleba's surface, we can presume those are in abundance in the soil. Iron and copper don't work that way. If there was enough iron and copper in the soil to make processing from fruit generate a reasonable amount of it... you could just setup a drill to extract the stuff more directly and much faster than any plant could do it.

Furthermore, from a gameplay perspective, part of the point of the spore-pollution model is that enemies only aggro against your farms, not your mineral patches or production. So if you don't need to make Ag science, plastic, or most other things, your spore output will be minimal. Now, you'd constantly have to deal with them.

[tardy quarry]

I assume that u get ores that doesn’t spoil, so if u don’t constantly consume ores, this part of factory just stops

ores don’t spoil

[tardy quarry]

also, the issue with pollution was that to deal with enemies, u need weapons that consumes metal products, now that metals are free, u don’t need to worry about getting enemy attacks constantly

[stray wharf]

What does spoiling have to do with what I talked about? You're producing more spores due to having to harvest fruits to get ores. And you need ores to do things like launch rockets.

[stray wharf]

They're not free though; they're agriculture. By definition, when you harvest them, you're creating spores.

[tardy quarry]

pollution is the easiest number to change, if the rework cause the need of more farming, they can just reduce the amount of pollution they produce

also we know that factorio is not always realistic, we can probably get a huge amount of ore from a little fruit

[stray wharf]

It is at least acquainted with reality. The idea of oil fields lowering their yields without being fully exhausted at least somewhat resembles a real thing.

The idea of trees that make iron and copper forever does not.

[tardy quarry]

u know alien exsists

perhaps some fungus dies and turn into metal

[stray wharf]

I know that the law of conservation of matter is a thing. Plants, even alien plants, cannot create iron and copper forever. They will eventually run out.

Lastly, I genuinely don't see how this helps anything. You take the most resource-starved planet and turn it into Vulcanus-but-without-the-Foundry so all of your builds from Nauvis are the same.

[worn vigil]

farmers have to rotate their crop types so nutrients in the soil dont get too leeched out, i think like nitrogen fixing plants need to be alternated, so if you had some metal extracting plants they would leech that soil. but hey, the game doesnt have to be realistic but it does have to be fun and not be too performance hoggy.

[stray wharf]

I get that, but we can assume that the Ag tower handles all that when it replants a tree. Irrigation and soil nutrition can be presumed to come from the local rainy, highly-organic environment.

Copper and iron don't work like that. If they were sufficiently common in the environment that plants can concentrate them, then the engineer could just mine the environment for them.

[worn vigil]

im sure some plants can concentrate iron, humans eat plenty of plant based foods that have iron for their diet, but as for copper idk about that

plants use copper for photosynthesis? hmm

[stray wharf]

They don't concentrate iron to the extent of making gears out of them. This is in part because there's just not enough iron or copper around for them to work with.

[worn vigil]

i think water and carbon would be the vast majority of what you get from a plant

im sure the devs could exagerate whats happening if they so choose, plus its an alien planet with alien plants or fungi or whatever

resources are going to be different

[tardy quarry]

but there’s nothing similar for copper

[worn vigil]

plants use copper for photosynthesis

they also use copper in the lignin of their cell walls

google:
"Yes, certain biological processes, primarily involving bacteria, can concentrate copper through a process called "bioleaching," where microorganisms like Acidithiobacillus ferrooxidans break down copper-containing minerals, releasing soluble copper into a solution, effectively concentrating it from the ore; this method is often used in mining to extract copper from low-grade ores."

so you could use that bacteria to extract iron sulfide and copper simultaneously

iron sulfide is a key resource for those chemosynthetic bacteria

[stray wharf]

Where do they get these elements from in such quantity that processing these plants yields a useable amount of iron and copper? And why can't the engineer just mine that place?

[worn vigil]

idk, ask the people that use these bacteria for mining

[stray wharf]

I mean, we're already stretching things when the engineer apparently can't even make carbon fiber without hijacking an alien life form's digestive tract. That could be caulked up to the engineer not knowing everything, like the complex processes needed to make carbon fiber (which is why chemical processing is so inefficient). But this is a huge leap.

[open abyss]

You're adding one extra step to a pretty long chain, this won't make metal processing that much different, just solve ore scarcity issue

If that's the only issue then I'd rather just tweak ore patch gen

[worn vigil]

bioleaching metals is low-cost but slower, and more ecofriendly than hydrometallurgy. Used in processing mineral ores, recovering metals from industrial waste, sewage sludge, and contaminated soil. also from google

Copper, uranium, gold, silver, cobalt, zinc, and nickel

[tardy quarry]

it’s quite different if u don’t need to mine ore at all, I would say having larger ore patch doesn’t solve anything because u r restricted by where ores are and need to manage multiple ore resources mining patches (more raw resource types) at the same time

whereas if u use fruits to craft ore, u only need to deal with fruit farming, no ore extranction at all

this simplifies gleba from 3 ore resources plus two fruits resources to just two fruit resources

[late sentinel]

can someone catch me up to speed? what's the discussion here? what are the sides?

[open abyss]

We're trying to fix gleba without really knowing what its problems are

[tardy quarry]

imo smelting the ore is not the boring part, but mining three different ore from three different ore patches is the boring part

it’s something u already done on Nauvis

and especially if its iron and copper

[open abyss]

My problem with gleba's smelting is that the entire ore to blue circuits/lds production chain is almost identical to nauvis, letting you extract ore from fruit doesn't quite fix it

[late sentinel]

I would say more but wube does have ninjas. That wasn't a joke.

[tardy quarry]

u also need to keep track of how fast u can get iron and copper based on the ore patches u got, but if u get ore from fruits u just need to scal the two fruits for everything

it’s always easier to scale when there are less raw resource types

[open abyss]

Also, if you move ores to fruits that makes gleba's pollution mechanic even more similar to nauvis

[tardy quarry]

u probably don’t pollute when making ores, only at farming areas where u get pollution

getting ore could be a fruit processing step, and from what we know, only growing fruits produce pollution

[late sentinel]

What's got you guys talking about 'making ores' ?

[stray wharf]

My understanding is that [Pepperbox believes that one of the major issues with starting on Gleba is having to use miners to get your ores, which means having to track down several ore patches of various kinds](#1240418991386787920 message). And thus, the best way to fix this is to... I don't know, turn Gleba into a boring version of Vulcanus, where ores come from plants and don't run out for some reason.

[worn vigil]

was it about moving ores from gleba to strict bioleaching or was it more of an alternative option?

isnt coal one of the ores you have to get on gleba from fruit processing?

[open abyss]

I don't think gleba needs coal, you can already get both fuels and plastic from fruits directly

[worn vigil]

you need coal for explosives

[timid crescent]

All coal/oil derivative products should have alternates that use Gleba fruits and the biochamber

[timid crescent]

Who's to say you can't make explosives with baked jellynut and bioflux?

[open abyss]

Would be weird to leave coal to just explosives when other uses of coal were replaced by fruit processing

[worn vigil]

we'll have to see, but we'll definitely need explosives for those rocket turrets

[timid crescent]

This also isn't counting that you can make coal

[stray wharf]

Just going off of the music FFF space platform video that showed us rocket turrets to begin with, you make coal from sulfur and carbon (and water).

[shrewd citrus]

if there's one thing Gleba has never been, and probably never will be, it's boring

[lunar wind]

4 left. What are likely topics to be in any of them?

[tardy quarry]

some new toy from planet unlocks, Gleba rework, official full trailer

my ear

low chance we get Aquilo fff

[lunar wind]

probably a mention in one of the fff's

[tardy quarry]

imagine tomorrow we get a technical fff about demolishers

[lunar wind]

I mean there were mention there would be new effects for the ground explosion attack

could be another demolisher fff

or part of fff

[tropic basin]

tank turret FFF?

[tardy quarry]

how about tank fff

tank act as early game spidertron

[tropic basin]

well, there are ... why is a "bergepanzer" called wrecker?

[tardy quarry]

something I hoped for a while

[tropic basin]

anyway, Bergepanzer exist IRL, they could have an excavator arm (usually they have a dozer blade)

[subtle summit]

Could be, we also seen a blue cannon shell item. I hope maybe we get a cannon turret, so cannon shells have more uses after tanks are outgunned by biters.

[lunar wind]

we could use a new tank though.. one that can run over the evo = 1, bitter nests

[tropic basin]

Armored Recovery Vehicle
kinda lame

[tardy quarry]

add tank hit damage to physical damage tech bonus

u r not supposed to use tank when evo = 1 tho, probably

at that time u have spidertrons and artillery

[tropic basin]

Tank is severly lacking mobility compared to Spidertron.
Raw DPS isn't that bad.

steering vs. just going in the direction you want
aiming vs. homing

[lunar wind]

yes..... always... totally...

[tardy quarry]

imagine we can drive an artificial demolisher and demolish the enemy bases

[misty falcon]

There's QoL to be had

[fast night]

Oh someone will make a mod for this, don't worry

[lunar wind]

next fff: "so because we devs all played shapez 2 last weekend we're adding a second and third floor"

[young breach]

yeah definitely bc they asked the people from the lan party to not talk about aquilo even after the embargo lifts

[young breach]

oh yeah I'm super curious about that one

[tardy quarry]

but after the game release?

[lunar wind]

ear?

[tardy quarry]

Aquilo

So NDA folks are not allowed to talk about Aquilo end game stuff between the embargo lift and the SA release?

[wanton igloo]

They have been requested not to

[lunar wind]

this have been discussed in some channel, but don't remember which one

[wanton igloo]

What FFF was that from again?

Ah, 402 apparently, it just got mentioned in the main channel lol

[young breach]

after SA release, I think they will do some FFF's on how Aquilo was developed ofc

[plain ermine]

to not talk about what?

[fast night]

Rule 1 of Aquilio

[tropic basin]

What's a Bwuhuo?
-# oh, wrong planet

[indigo fog]

I'm hype about that; QoL is always welcome

[hidden dune]

I plan to replace train and spidertron sprites with Demolishers and Strafers

[misty falcon]

And demolishers with biter followed by tanks

[grand fox]

Strafer needs a tiny saddle with the engineer strapped to it

[violet path]

,,The expansion contains 4 additional planets. Each of which has its own unique theme, resource, challenges and gameplay mechanics. Most of them also have different military targets." from the dlc announcement fff

for me that implies that most planets is 3 considering there are only 4 of them

and aquilo was said to not have any enemies

[vivid turret]

Aquilo enemies got scrapped at some point.
And the wording changed a bit #space-age message

[violet path]

seems most likely that fulgora will have some type of military target

[violet path]

i see

well its a pretty old fff

things could have changed

i still hope there is something on fulgora

[tardy quarry]

My bet is that when they announced this they haven’t removed the enemy on Aquilo, so ‘most of them’ means Vulcanus, Gleba and Aquilo

and they said the flying enemies was entirely removed from the game, so its not redirected to Fulgora

[worn vigil]

those flying enemies were removed, it doesnt mean they might not already have flying enemies planned for fulgora

or some form of motion that utilizes the vast oilsands

(i.e. skip hopping like skipping stones)

[stray wharf]

Well, we've seen enemies on two different planets thus far, and they've always used the color red to represent them. But the blocks on small Fulgora islands are white.

[worn vigil]

those are the ruins i think

surely they arent just for show

[stray wharf]

They aren't for show; they do represent something. But it'd be really strange that they'd use a different color for Fulgora's enemies than those of any other planet.

[worn vigil]

maybe they are white when inactive but awaken and change color when activated (to red)

[timid crescent]

I'm still pretty sure white is the default force colour. They could be enemies without a colour set, like how the fusion stuff just had a random colour assigned and no one changed it yet.

[worn vigil]

i dont think they are going to show the fulgora enemy directly after the vulcanus enemy

[timid crescent]

Maybe, maybe not

[lunar wind]

🤣

[sand saddle]

the demolisher is just the engine. You actually need a LOOOOOOOONG train station to park your demolisher train chariot at.

[misty falcon]

So yeah, on platforms for would be very nice now, because of the /10

[stray wharf]

Also, because steam is so much bigger than water now, metering by steam tanks can be a problem. So having the ability to just look at the heat directly makes a lot of sense.

[misty falcon]

Exactly

Personally I'm going to use a single with a single water tank, and store heat in heatpipes.

[shrewd citrus]

if you're using a single reactor, you can stick the heat exchangers directly onto it. since heat is only consumed when power is consumed, you can just set up a circuit with T <= 501 degrees AND no fuel cell in the reactor

virtually no losses

[misty falcon]

No. I want heatpipes to buffer the heat.

If I use just like 1 or 2 heat exchangers, they can't fully utilize a full fuel cell

[shrewd citrus]

that's fair

[misty falcon]

With just 6 heat pipes and the reactor itself, it can buffer a cell

[vivid turret]

3 Facts remain.
What might they be?

[stray wharf]

1. Fulgora sentry enemies
2. Playtesting stuff (possibly including Gleba changes), since this is the last FFF before the NDA expires.
3. Aquilo introduction.

[tropic basin]

Klonan teased that the last one might be a release trailer

[vivid turret]

1. Doubt it
2. I do hope we get a Gleba follow-up if our current impression of the planet is outdated.
3. They might talk about Aquilo with more than an introduction;

The heated coolant needs to be cooled back to its cold state. There's a special machine for that, but we'll save that for another FFF.

[tropic basin]

#friday-facts message

my wishlist:

Pepperbox' Arm
4th tier turret
Aquilo Lore
Release Trailer
-# yes, that's 4

[timid wing]

"another FFF" can also mean after release :)

[vivid turret]

Rather pointless

[tropic basin]

I love reading FFFs. I wouldn't mind if they never stop.

[timid wing]

not really? the argument was about the topics of the FFFs until release but you can not infer that one of them will be about the undisclosed coolant cooling machine since they might not reveal it until after release

[vivid turret]

Release is revealing everything.

[timid wing]

yeah and? does not mean they could push back talking about the last planet's lore, design considerations, etc until after the release

[tropic basin]

yeah, release is revealing the content, not the process of making it.

[agile river]

release wont reveal some of the technical type fffs

[serene sage]

"here's another bug that would have affected maybe two people, ever, that we fixed preemptively 😊"

[hybrid briar]

they take the automatic error log uploads seriously lol

https://old.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/88wajf/alright_which_one_of_you_is_cheatengineing/

[worn vigil]

After they release the game won't they still continue the FFFs and just sweep up the leftovers?

[tardy quarry]

my fff list:
-my ear
-Gleba rework
-trailer

its also possible that my ear will keep as a secret like spidertrons in 1.0

[spare aurora]

my ear?

[tardy quarry]

updated fff list:
-Gleba rework
-Aquilo
-Full trailer

[spare aurora]

even if they re-work gleba i expect number tweaks and not much else.

[timid crescent]

Their PFP's ear on the right is an arm taken from an fff

Specifically this video

https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/blog-sync/fff-402-superfast-foundry.mp4

[spare aurora]

Ahh yes the arm

yes i would like them to spoil that too!

[tardy quarry]

http://youtube.com/post/UgkxDCPUwBu2iU9LYILK82GzyZpUa9SK7QqU?si=B0JvUp23xMMWDBpj

just number tweaks probably won’t give a 10x improvement

[spare aurora]

New gleba is 10 times better
10 * 0 = still 0
-trupen

lol

[tardy quarry]

still 10 times better lmao

[spare aurora]

gotta start somewhere

[tardy quarry]

10*0 is probably just for the meme

[stray wharf]

Yeah, I can't really trust that to actually mean anything.

[tardy quarry]

we know at least theres a thing called new Gleba

so its not just number tweaks

[spare aurora]

imo its ok if one planet is last, if you make a list there will always be a worst planet. with some tweaks hopefully they can narrow the range.

[stray wharf]

I mean, one way to read the whole "10 * 0 = still 0" is "I don't like spoilage and never will". Or, it can be read as "if it doesn't have a 50% prod building I can send to Nauvis for some purpose, I don't care what else they do there, it still sucks."

[tardy quarry]

have we got opinions on Gleba rework from other NDA folks?

[open abyss]

I'm not expecting gleba rework fff until devs are happy with its state and I doubt this state will be achieved before release

[wanton igloo]

Here's one: Gleba is in a much better place now, though while it has good rewards they will always be somewhat delayed as they aren't part of the path to the science pack, but locked behind it instead.

[stray wharf]

I believe Skaudus said that Gleba was good before, and it's better now. So everyone seems to agree that the changes are improvements.

[spare aurora]

only 23 (ish) days to find out

[misty falcon]

One week less, because embargo lifting

Speculation: One FFF will be about 2.0, breaking changes to the base game.

[tardy quarry]

back to the Gleba fruit making ore theory, I have a possible thematic explanation for why we can grow iron/copper rich fruits but cannot just dig the ground to get the elements.

Iron and copper on Gleba are very deep down in the soil and is absorbed and transferred by the fungus network that can reach deep in the groud than miners. The fruit take the elements from the fungus network and the fungus network keep sucking the elemnts up to supply the fruit.

if ore inside fruits sounds too funky, maybe we use the nutrient to grow some microorganisms that can leach out iron/copper from the fungus network

this may also explain why those recipes are (probably) exclusive to Gleba because they rely on the local fungus network to transfer the metal elements

TLDR: theres iron and copper elements in the Gleba fungus network and u use bio tech to suck them up

there’s no iron and copper ore patch because those elements are evenly distributed across the entire planet by the fungus network

[crystal dune]

Nooo it actually happened 😭😭😭
My mind tried to construct "new Gleba" while I was sleeping 😭

The fix all along was to:
Remove the biochamber's module slots
And instead add different types (not qualities) of nutrients that make it work faster
The fake dream people really liked it, so clearly it must be effective

Also the most ridiculous thing ever:
You know how we still haven't seen the bio lube recipe?
Well my dream accounted for that as well
Turns out, you can turn agri science into lube 😭

[tropic basin]

Turns out, you can turn agri science into lube
fluids don't spoil. could filter out almost spoiled agri science. that would be a good thing

today I dreamt* that I was on Vulcanus, setting up the first base
not playing SA, I was the engineer. but it wasn't actually Factorio, just a .. uh, similar experience
-# *that's already weird enough. I rarely dream anything

[indigo fog]

How many of these are there?

[misty falcon]

3 FFFs until release

[indigo fog]

No no, breaking changes

[static root]

My friends make fun of me for liking factorio too much, but at least I'm not dreaming about its updates

[tropic basin]

I think the fluid extants is the only one. And only if your pipe networks are bigger than 8x8 chunks.

Dminishing beacons will not break things.

[tardy quarry]

minor recipe changes

[misty falcon]

Recipe changes, rail turning radius, disable is limit = 0, no circuitless fluid priority, || || changes

[misty falcon]

250x250. Not related to chunks.

The less people talk about chunks the better.

[tropic basin]

oh, recipe changes. that'll break stuff
new rails won't break anything existing though
disable is limit = 0 might break something

what's circuitless fluid priority?

[misty falcon]

In 1.1 you can have a pipe and a pump jutting out of it. The fluid it will go to the pump before going to the rest of the pipe.

In case you really don't want to use circuits for e.g. cracking.

[tropic basin]

ah, since it sucks the pipe dry

first consumer takes it all

[misty falcon]

Yes, and you could use 2-3 pumps to ensure not a drip flows through

[tropic basin]

I can see how that could break things, but generally should be safe

[misty falcon]

Yes, that's a contrived case.

Beacons cause things to work differently too

Breaking ratios if you have a very fine tuned system

But those are all XKCD 1172 cases

[tropic basin]

yes, but it should mostly work, even if it might be limping along

[misty falcon]

Not if you use the exact fine ratios for sushi

[tropic basin]

beacons and sushi don't belong in the same setup

[misty falcon]

The || || changes may be an issue though

[tropic basin]

you forgot to type the letters

[misty falcon]

Oops, no for you

[tropic basin]

I'm not entirely sold on the "breaking changes FFF" idea. Not only because I don't like it (takes up valuable real estate), but those things have been covered already.
It makes sense to aggregate it all in one place, but repeating it in an FFF would be .. repeating stuff.

[tardy quarry]

better put those in the faq channel

[restive linden]

That would be so bad, it doesn’t mean anything since everyone should just start a new run

[misty falcon]

People who just play the base game will have it broken for them, unless they lock the version to 1.1

[tropic basin]

People should start a new run, but that doesn't mean everybody will.
And you might want to load an old save occasionally without downgrading your game version.

[grand fox]

Straight up the reasoning Riftbreaker gives for their plant farming unique resource building so not exactly out of nowhere

[lunar wind]

But!! This changes everything!!!1

[misty falcon]

Not everything, just that thing

[lunar wind]

do you have a write-up of everything you want to let go off your chest post NDA?

[late sentinel]

wube already made this its called factoriopedia

[misty falcon]

Nope, this one will definitely be brought up in an FFF

[lunar wind]

will the || || change be brought up in an FFF before release?

[tropic basin]

Do the NDA folks know what FFF topics are upcoming?

[late sentinel]

tbh no

sometimes it's even new information, not 'new' as in couldn't know, but 'new' as in didn't know

'huh, neat' is a common reaction

[tardy quarry]

still waiting for a Gleba update fff

[desert coral]

I keep seeing all these blank text spoilers
Aaaa

[tropic basin]

If we get one, it won't come until the Gleba balancing is done. That might not be until close to the release, in which case the place will be snatched by the release trailer FFF.

[timid crescent]

No more FFFs needed for learning about new features 1 week out anyway

[crystal dune]

Only two weeks until I can absorb the tech tree...

Directly into my brain through my eyeballs

[worn vigil]

once you see it you can't unsee it

[stray wharf]

Prediction for the last 3 FFFs:

• Fulgora Sentry enemies
• LAN Party Results and Rebalancing
• Trailer

Note that "Trailer" is kind of confirmed, so not much of a prediction.

[winged pivot]

we already have sentry enemies, do you think there will be an original spin on it, that would significantly set them apart from worms in a technical sense?

[shell cape]

i'm trying to think what niche the fulgora enemies might fit into. gleba's pentapods are not that different from flying enemies, with their ability to ignore walls and the like. vulcanus has the relatively-immobile worms which are effectively just one-time DPS checks

[fallow flint]

indeed

[stray wharf]

If you're referring to the Demolisher as "sentry enemies", they are mobile. The sentries/fortresses/etc on Fulgora would be immobile. That means that you can't lure them into a minefield or the like. And they would be more about just killing you at long ranges.

[winged pivot]

[shell cape]

you unlock tesla turrets on fulgora, presumably they'd actually have some use on that planet. so fulgora enemies come in numbers

[fallow flint]

Honestly I do like idea of fulgoran enemies being ancient rouge bots that try to steal resources from unguarded logistics chests

with them attacking in hordes at a time

[shell cape]

how about this: i like the idea of everything on fulgora being a little backwards. you recycle scrap for resources going backwards through crafting trees, and the enemies are rogue bots who build the wrong stuff. like they take your buildings and items but don't destroy them, they move them or place them around randomly

[stray wharf]

That's just a turret. I'm talking about something bigger than that, something that out-ranges basically anything you have.

[fallow flint]

I could see that working, but tbh would it be much of a inconvience to have items in the logisitcs network displaced?

since bots can automatically just grab stuff from anywhere in the network

I feel like them actively stealing things incentivizes us guarding against them

[winged pivot]

yeah, that's what a sentry is, you could make what you're describing in the current engine by just bumping up the range, what I'm asking is what could set it apart technically

[stray wharf]

It's a fortress. You'd have to breach walls to get in close, avoid weapons fire, maybe deal with local enemies it throws at you, but they aren't a threat that you can draw outside of its range. And it would likely have different parts so that you can attack it in sortees rather than all in one go.

Oh, and since you don't have coal on Fulgora, you have to do all of this without rockets or tank shells (unless you brought some with you). And it'd likely have nuke defense.

[tropic basin]

b) is already covered:
(combat) balancing in FFF-427
LAN-party results in FFF-428
I don't see them going over that again. Gleba stuff I don't see them doing: "We changed this thing you didn't even know exists"

[timid crescent]

The combat balancing was done before the LAN party

It would be interesting to know if they changed anything that's already been mentioned as a result of the LAN party

I'll assume not if they don't mention it

[tropic basin]

I'll assume yes because FFFs aren't exhaustive lists.

[misty falcon]

Honestly I have no predictions for today

[timid crescent]

Kinda want to confirm if Fulgora has enemies or not. Otherwise I just want to know what other juicy QoL improvements we're getting

I'm sure they haven't run out yet

[desert coral]

Considering fulgora is trupin's favorite planet, I wonder if that implies that it has fun enemies or if the enemies are not there
I remember at one point I think with the turret we mightve seen biters used to test the gun, but that doesnt mean that biters are there lol

[lunar wind]

there might be territorial enemies at the lightning rods found on the planet

[late sentinel]

what about territorial lightning rods?

[lunar wind]

sounds scary

feels like a way too hostile planet for natural life though.. wonder if the ruins will be explained in-game... maybe on the last planet?

[fallow flint]

actually is it even confirmed that enemies on fulgora are a thing?

havent seen any evidence of it pretty much at all

[lunar wind]

no enemies are confirmed on which is why there's some speculations about an FFF about this

[open abyss]

Some weird white squares on small islands visible on the minimap and some "special significance" assigned to them

[fallow flint]

true enough

[fallow flint]

oh?

which FFF are they in?

just want to check it out rlq

[open abyss]

And aquilo is already confirmed to be a planet without enemies, would be weird to have two

[open abyss]

Trash to treasure iirc

[fallow flint]

true enough

[fallow flint]

thanks! will give it a quick look

[lunar wind]

not sure I agree here, could become quite tedious having to micro-manage all the enemies and defenses on multiple planets when you just wanna continue progression on some new planet

[fallow flint]

oh yeah your right, I guess I never thought twice about them previously?

[fallow flint]

I mean thats also true

I honestly have no clue

[lunar wind]

aren't these just territorial lightning rods though?

[open abyss]

They're definitely not only on the small islands

[fallow flint]

theyre kinda big to just be the lightning rods

and theyre too clustered to be some type of city

[desert coral]

I notice tons of tinier dots around at least one of them

[lunar wind]

white areas on other planets had to do with power I think?

[fallow flint]

well no clue tbh, it doesnt seem to be lightning rods? or even their area?

[open abyss]

There were white areas on other planets?

[lunar wind]

but they are clearly not turbines or storage tanks on , so who knows

[fallow flint]

indeed

[lunar wind]

they dont have the same sizes though

[fallow flint]

theyre too "lumpy" and irregular for lack of a better word

[timid crescent]

This is a nuclear reactor

[desert coral]

Damn pixelation lol
You can find the island shapes

The whites are also different shade from that from what I can tell?

[lunar wind]

are these white spots even naturally occuring or did someone try to censor something from the pictures?

they seem too uneven

[timid crescent]

The white spots are scrap ore

[desert coral]

I dont think its censoring,
Because I see tons of tiny little dots nearby

[lunar wind]

hmm

[timid crescent]

https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/blog-sync/fff-399-fulgora-train-network.png

[lunar wind]

those are resources yes, but the others lack the chess-board pattern

[desert coral]

Scrap ore is that pattern
Which is different from what we are seeing

The white im seeing reminds me of how biter nests look on the map
With the biters being tiny red dots

And nests being larger rectangles

[lunar wind]

all enemies are red so far in the game, even on other planets

[timid crescent]

Unless you have a mod that adds in other forces, I'm fairly sure the default force colour on the map is white

You can see this if you have rampant installed and factions enabled iirc

[lunar wind]

soo... a neutral faction/enemy then?

[desert coral]

Does make me wonder if its related to the night time thing too

Could be some sort of force thats neutral during the day
But becomes hostile during the lightning storm,
When defenses like the tesla towers are powered the most

[timid crescent]

Just an uncoloured one I suppose

[open abyss]

I don't think tesla turrets are necessarily good against fulgora enemies, could just be inspired by those enemies

[timid crescent]

I wouldn't put it past them, the fusion reactor has a weird map colour for no real reason

[desert coral]

Eh?
I feel like itd make little sense to make such a weapon and then not make it useful

Plus think about it:
We have enemies that are passive except for food
Enemies that are hostile always
Enemies that are territorial

What about enemies that only attack during certain periods, but are otherwise neutral?

I could see it being easy to take them out during the day, and then at night you have to hide away

[open abyss]

Not saying it will be useless, just not the best way to deal with local enemies

Also tbh with how small rocket turret's range is I doubt it will be great against pentapods

[desert coral]

Didnt they specifically say that rocket turrets would be useful against pentapods?

[lunar wind]

needing to go fetch a better turret on one planet before going to the next kind of makes sense though?

[open abyss]

Don't think so, but apparently personal rocket launcher is

[timid crescent]

Rocket turrets have a 50% larger range than laser turrets...

[lunar wind]

just load 'em with nukes

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[timid crescent]

Yes:

Ideally you want weapons with long range and/or a high alpha strike, like the rocket turret (which is unlocked on Gleba) or the tesla turret (from Fulgora).

[open abyss]

Legendary rocket turret vs base laser?

[open abyss]

Or am I reading it wrong and the minimum range means it can't target anything too close

[timid crescent]

No, it has a minimum range of 15 (can't attack enemies closer than that) and a maximum range of 36

[open abyss]

Ok that makes more sense

[desert coral]

Minimum is cant target too close

[timid crescent]

It goes up to 54 max range at

[desert coral]

And the pentapod FFF does say this

Which pretty much means that the weapon will be good against the local wildlife

So i assume theyd do similar for fulgora

[open abyss]

If fulgora has stationary only enemies I'm not sure how useful tesla will be against that

[timid crescent]

I don't expect particularly that there will or won't be enemies on fulgora. I just think that if there were they'd be really cool given the track record of Demolishers and Pentapods

[desert coral]

Thats why im assuming enemies will be more likely to be mobile

During the night

When power from lightning is hitting

[open abyss]

Yeah I'd prefer a mix of both

[desert coral]

Yeah

Im assuming during the day they might be neutral or defensive
But at night suddenly your swarmed

Also, fulgora has lots of oil right?
Iirc
I might be misremembering

[fallow flint]

yeah oily sand specifically

[timid crescent]

You can pump heavy oil out of the sand

[open abyss]

I thought maybe there could be only stationary enemies when you arrive on fulgora but once you destroy one of those defense outposts the active enemies start attacking your buildings in that area so you have a choice of only getting scrap from medium islands

But I'm not sure how fun "ignore small islands" choice is

[desert coral]

Part of my theory is that flamethrower turrets will be especially viable on fulgora as an early game weapon

Considering the amount of oil.

Or it might be a horrible idea that might light the entire oily sands on fire lmao

[timid crescent]

Tbh my faith in stationary defensive enemies on Fulgora has diminished since demolishes were announced

They kinda already fit that niche and are way cooler

[lunar wind]

*if* the white things were lightning rods that means that we only have access to the smaller islands until we've unlocked the research for our own

[timid crescent]

Enemies on Fulgora would still be cool, but not necessary to have to make the game interesting

[timid crescent]

You unlock mk1 lightning rods through trigger tech iirc

[lunar wind]

and trigger tech is unlocked by having the right stuff or what is the trigger? 🤔

[timid crescent]

Eh, it's implied the early ones are trigger techs:

Soon after arriving on Fulgora you'll figure out how to make your own lightning rods.

Once you're producing the planet's science pack you can unlock lightning collectors. An upgrade from the simple lightning rod

[desert coral]

I feel like rogue robots at night sounds fitting
Especially considering that we have no known reason for civilization to fall

Not to mention how common Rogue AI takeovers are in fiction

[open abyss]

Small islands are supposed to be just mining outposts, you build on medium and big islands, would make no sense to only generate lightning rods on islands you don't really build on

[timid crescent]

The trigger would most likely be mining a natural spawned alien lightning rod

[desert coral]

I really hope I learn whats up in the next FFF

[fallow flint]

true enough, but the dots are rather big for being just a "lightning rod" from what I can tell

[lunar wind]

looking at the fulgora FFF againt I dont think the dots are lightning rods

[fallow flint]

indeed

[barren oasis]

I'm still hoping for a FFF that makes me interested in Gleba 😅
The challenge of spoilage sounds fun, but it's not exactly an incentive to go there first
The other two planets just sound way more exciting and beneficial as initial targets

[timid crescent]

I've definitely lost the opinion that Gleba somehow needs to be the most beneficial to go to first

I think it's perfectly fine if it's an interesting challenge on it's own that could be tackled whenever someone feels the want to, or desires the specific things locked behind bio scoence

They all seem interesting on their own, I just don't think anything will compete with the immediate power the foundry and EMP offer

[open abyss]

If it's available to be visited first it's not unreasonable to expect rewards to be on par with other planets

[timid crescent]

You're free to look at what each one offers you in the tech tree and make a judgement for yourself imo

The rocket turret and spidertron are pretty cool, I could absolutely see someone going there just for them

Even if they're not "optimal" for factory expansion

[lunar wind]

I agree with this sentiment, it's not all about min-maxing all the time for everyone

[radiant quiver]

having a planet thats harder to go to first makes it an interesting challenge to go to the planet first on purpose

[misty falcon]

@tardy quarry was spot on, as usual

[tardy quarry]

prod for science pack makes perfect sense now if we think about it

science packs are the only intermediate other than metal, electronics and oil products that can get prod

[misty falcon]

It's not prod for science packs, but rather consumption reduction reduction

[tardy quarry]

some kind of equivalent, like BMD from Vulcanus

it multiplies with any prod bonus

[tawny snow]

even better than prod, since it multiplies with actual productivity

beat me to it lol

[tardy quarry]

[tawny snow]

only one non-trailer fff left

what will it be

we still have not gotten fulgora 3 have we?

[tardy quarry]

it might be about the end game

no restrictions on what they can show.

[misty falcon]

HOW TO BEAT FINAL BOSS dropping on the 14th

THE SECRETS WUBE DOESN'T WANT US TO TELL YOU

TOP 10 REASON WHY || || IS THE BEST PLANET

[late sentinel]

What is even pepperbox's guess this time?

[misty falcon]

iron spoiling from plants IIRC

[late sentinel]

wdmy spoiling from plants?

oh

for some reason the word 'iron' just dissapeared from my eyes

Pepperbox has had that idea longer than wube have

@tardy quarry also had the prediction/suggestion for BMD-style lab, specifically for Gleba.

We really need to get the guy a beta key. I wish it was an option. Save some speculation for everyone else.

[tardy quarry]

oh I remembered talking about iron bacteria

[tropic basin]

Gleba is so gross. Can I just skip it?

[tardy quarry]

sure

just pay enough AG science

[timid crescent]

I love it

[tropic basin]

Sure, I'll go to the next back alley and get some.

[timid crescent]

"Double your spm with this one simple trick!"

[barren oasis]

Well, I got what I wanted from this FFF 🙂
Not as immediately exciting, but still a huge bonus for the factory as a whole!

Also, since it can only be placed on Nauvis, that gives players an incentive to bring the science packs back - instead of doing all the science on Gleba

(Assuming of course we didn't already have to bring everything back... Don't remember if that was ever confirmed...)

[timid crescent]

I'm happy that they confirmed prod3 on Gleba

I'm extra happy that there's a sick new lab there as well

[thorn arrow]

This new biolab implies that biter spawners have brains big enough to research science

[timid crescent]

Another prediction: speed 3s are on Vulcanus and Efficiency 3s are on [redacted] and actually do use fusion cells in their recipe, as odd as that is

But they need to buff or change how efficiency works as well

[tardy quarry]

I’m okay with eff3 on any one of the first three planet

so one of them have two modules

[timid crescent]

That's the other option for sure

But I kinda want efficiency to see some love

[open abyss]

I'd keep eff3 on nauvis so you have plenty of time to use it on platforms before you unlock better ways to generate power

[timid crescent]

Yeah but they did say that no T3 modules are unlocked on Nauvis

[open abyss]

I missed that

Space science then maybe?

[timid crescent]

Space science would be on Nauvis

Space science is also where T2 modules are unlocked in Space Age as well iirc

[tardy quarry]

I think the dream that eff on Nauvis is broken

so T3 modules all have special ingredients apart from the circuits

quality module3 is superconductor

prod3 is biter egg

I’m guessing speed3 is tungsten carbide

eff3 Idk

[timid crescent]

Also to point out: It's very unlikely that biter eggs are recyclable, right?

Kinda like fish I imagine

[tardy quarry]

probably yeah

also they probably spoil into biters

[late sentinel]

If you had to guess for eff3, what would you guess?

[timid crescent]

Or at the very least a non-assembler recipe

[late sentinel]

obv. you can guess an item that doesn't 'exist' yet to you.

[tardy quarry]

explains why u see dead biters on the space platform in music fff

Id say eff3 on Gleba

Gleba deserves two T3 modules

[late sentinel]

ingredient, not planet :P

[timid crescent]

At this point in time I have no likely guess for eff modules.
Either they buff them a lot and they're actually on [redacted] or they're the same and they're a double up somewhere

[tardy quarry]

wiggler eggs? bioflux? I mean if eff3 is really so weak can be a candidate

but I think eff3 will have their use on space platforms

[timid crescent]

Some power related ingredient would make sense imo

[tardy quarry]

fusion cell

but this theory is kinda broken already

[timid crescent]

Hmmm, how so? Apart from it being extremely weird if eff modules remain in their current state

[tardy quarry]

tbh I expected eff3 on Fulgora

and quality 3 on Aquilo

[timid crescent]

Quality 3 are on fulgora though

I guess they could swap them

[tardy quarry]

yes just saying that its was not what I would expect

[misty falcon]

@tardy quarry what stocks should I invest in?

[open abyss]

Quality makes the most sense on fulgora though

And eff would make sense if producing power is one of aquilo's challenges

[tardy quarry]

wdym stocks

[misty falcon]

Just joking

[tardy quarry]

did I hit a spot again

oh still waiting my ear reveal

maybe next week

[misty falcon]

Ear reveal!

Like face reveal 😄

[tardy quarry]

thing is that devs mentioned all vanilla unlocks will be relatively early in SA so there can’t be T3 modules on Aquilo

[timid crescent]

New prediction, the endgame challenge is not Aquilo at all, it's related to another route/location beyond Aquilo that you need an uber space platform to go to and perform some action. Escaping, research, idk but that's my theory.

[tardy quarry]

I do think the end game will be in space

Aquilo is furthest location in the solar system

we probably do some interstellar activity to end the game

maybe on Aquilo orbit

or a special space location

[timid crescent]

I reckon a special space location

[tropic basin]

L3 of Nauvis?

[tardy quarry]

of sun

next expansion: factorio interstellar

[tropic basin]

Sun doesn't have Lagrange points

[tardy quarry]

yeah

my bad

[tardy quarry]

bioflux?

bioflux + bacteria = more bacteria?

[open abyss]

Did no one notice 4 hand size blue inserter or is it something that's been known for a while

[timid crescent]

Good catch!

I'm not sure it's been pointed out yet

[winged pivot]

is bioflux something real or is it fictional?

[tropic basin]

Alfonse has pointed it out earlier.

I like the new forward feature

[crystal dune]

No way

[timid crescent]

[stray wharf]

Yeah, the orange blob is definitely bioflux (we also see it used with nests on Nauvis). The question is: how do you make it?

[crystal dune]

I am also curious about the recipe

[stray wharf]

See, because ore bacteria make more ore bacteria, it is possible to have a renewable source of quality ores if you can get quality ore bacteria. But since it requires bioflux, you need equal quality bioflux too. How you get that depends on its recipe.

[crystal dune]

Jelly, mash, and...?

[stray wharf]

If we go by the colors, yumako mash and baked jellynuts seem to be a possibility.

[open abyss]

Bioflux is a combination of processed Yumako and Jellynut

Might also include nutrients, we don't see any new intermediates here

[stray wharf]

That doesn't say much though. Which processes?

[open abyss]

Just a regular craft in biochamber I assume

[timid crescent]

The processes shown in the image?

It's not the most clear, that's for sure

[stray wharf]

Right, but what intermediates are used? Yumako and jellynuts are the name of the fruit, not the intermediates they generate.

[crystal dune]

It has the sharp edges of a jelly cube, I think that's intentional

[open abyss]

Are we assuming there are several intermediates they can be processed into?

[stray wharf]

Are green circuits made from gears now? Because if you look at the Nauvis picture, that's what it suggests.

[timid crescent]

yes they're made from gears

[crystal dune]

We know that at least jellynut can be either baked or cubified

[timid crescent]

The image isn't super clear

Didn't we see a bioflux recipe at some point? I thought this new red jelly was a new icon

[stray wharf]

It seems pretty clear to me that the diagrams are descriptive of the general tiers of stuff. If fruits are tier 0 intermediates (like ores), then mashes are tier 1, and bioflux is a tier 2 intermediate.

[crystal dune]

We only saw it once, on a small section of a sushi belt. It was a gif showcasing the spoilage bar

In the lower resolution, it looked like just some orange blob

[stray wharf]

Bioflux could be made from the cube and yumako mash, but it'd be a bit weird that bioflux would come from the same ingredients as plastic.

I suggested baked jellynuts and yumako mash because those two don't have any recipes we've seen so far.

On a different subject, are prod module 3s considered Gleba's module 3 or Nauvis's? Because the resource needed for them is very much only made on Nauvis, but making it requires a (spoilable) Gleba resource.

I bring this up because we previously saw an image where a user queued up a bunch of research in a short time:

• Eff3
• captivity
• fish breeding
• toolbelt equipment

Now that we know what "captivity" is, the middle two clearly seem to be Gleba techs. So it would make sense if the rest are too.

So it would seem that Eff3s may well be Gleba's module 3, but also it gets an extra module 3 shared with Nauvis.

Which by process of elimination puts speed 3s on Vulcanus.

[timid crescent]

Definitely Glebas for prod3

Wait, I see what you mean now

So Eff3 and Prod3 are both unlocked on Gleba, but Prod3 is "technically" a nauvis module?

[crystal dune]

Well, the chain seems to be bioflux>egg>module

So it uses a Gleba resource

[timid crescent]

Yeah I'd still consider Prod3 a Gleba module

[tardy quarry]

if we follow the symmetry here, bioflux is just two mashes add together

wheres jelly yum??

[crystal dune]

"Where is plastic"

[tardy quarry]

clearly AG science is not just bioflux

also isn’t AG science jelly yum plus nutrients?

[stray wharf]

Just like green circuits are gears and wires, right?

[stray wharf]

Yes, and we know how Jelly-yums are made. And it doesn't involve bioflux at all.

[tardy quarry]

yes

[crystal dune]

There have been recipe tweaks, but bioflux existed well before these changes. If they wanted to make it a science ingredient, they could have done it earlier

[stray wharf]

The pictures are descriptive of the tiers of intermediates, not of their recipes.

[tardy quarry]

[crystal dune]

Of course, the science recipe still could have gotten changed, but I don't believe this image is telling us that

[tawny snow]

iron/copper have gotten a lot of neat processes, but have we heard anything about stone or coal?

I feel like they could become an important bottleneck, specially on the endgame

[crystal dune]

They actually sort of addressed this, once

Lol

[tawny snow]

stone for is going to be tough compared to everything else

[stray wharf]

No, but they've always functioned as secondary resources. Coal could be a bottleneck once the Foundry/EMP/quality prod modules reduce the ore cost of red circuits and above so far that coal/oil for plastic becomes your main bottleneck.

[crystal dune]

Of course, you could practice the dark art of turning spoilage+oil into coal...

[stray wharf]

Gleba already has a coal recipe, using sulfur and carbon. Of course, carbon does come from spoilage (as does sulfur)...

[crystal dune]

That's what I was referring to

By "oil" I meant sulfur

[worn vigil]

I love how pepperbox's prediction about ore from gleba fruit was actually right

[stray wharf]

I wonder how they will re-tune spore pollution. Since all your ores come from fruits, you need bigger farms, and thus create more pollution.

And also, how are they re-tuning eggs? You didn't need all that many Biochambers to start science production, so egg automation probably wasn't a trigger tech. Did they have to move it down the tech tree, since you need way more Biochambers earlier?

I do find it interesting that ore production from fruit also makes fuel, just in case you're using burner furnaces.

[tardy quarry]

which part do u mean

oh

ore from fruit

yeah I’m happy its true

no more ore mining!

[worn vigil]

yes, they've done well with making the ore system feel more organic

[tardy quarry]

reducing the number of raw resource type especially existing ones always feels like a good solution

when I was playing SE I was annoyed by having to find and connect 5 different ores together into a train network before I can make anything

Old Gleba feels similar, apart from finding biomes for two fruits, I also need to find iron, copper ore patches and stone

now I just need two fruits and stone is not that bad to find as the only ore type on Gleba

[stray wharf]

Don't forget the dozens of egg nests you need to be able to make ores in any real quantity.

[tardy quarry]

one egg nest give u like 9 eggs isn’t it

also u get lots of ores from rocks

[stray wharf]

That's the equivalent of 9 miners. Less, since they can only use 2 modules instead of 3.

[tardy quarry]

bacteria and ore for you to quickly obtain at the start.

[tardy quarry]

u don’t need a lot of metal products on Gleba

remember a tiny patch lasted 200h

[red crow]

And now you produce spore pollution directly at the beginning, sounds more dangerously

[stray wharf]

Sure, if your playstyle is to make Gleba functionally dependent on any piece of infrastructure that cannot be made elsewhere. However, if you want planets to be at least somewhat self-sufficient...

[open abyss]

The answer is likely no but I wonder if mining prod affects bacteria breeding process

[stray wharf]

Either it affects harvesting directly or Gleba has an infinite productivity research specifically for harvesting.

[tardy quarry]

I mean its not like making rocket will be expensive

because recipe prod

and u get prod3 modules here for silo and assemblers

[open abyss]

There's also biter eggs that will somehow improve argiculture but that's probably a late tech

[red crow]

The other planets have shorten the production chain quite a lot, gleba looks different, there are not much easier

[tardy quarry]

u don’t have to start from scratch without any external help. You can do that but I don’t think that’s the intended experience, its more to avoid softlock imo

[red crow]

And on the other hand, you can transform gleba quite well if i understand right you can just plant your fruits wherever you want with the soil-landfill

[tardy quarry]

also biochambers are affected by beacons

u can use speed beacons if u want

[open abyss]

They also mentioned tuning down enemies in this fff, likely because of that

[stray wharf]

I'm not even talking about starting from scratch. I'm talking about getting a good base going.

[open abyss]

Are they? I don't remember it being stated anywhere

[tardy quarry]

u can automate egg production

[stray wharf]

Eventually. Not immediately.

[tardy quarry]

from steam page image

[tardy quarry]

no confirmation on that

[stray wharf]

So, of course, just automate everything. With a bit of technology you can turn a limited egg supply into a fully automated but somewhat risky production cycle.

[tardy quarry]

u can probably unlock egg production as soon as u made the first biochamber

[tardy quarry]

trigger tech is also technology

[stray wharf]

That suggests research, not a trigger tech.

[tardy quarry]

and you know that Gleba has been reworked a lot

things changes

[red crow]

Bit sad that the biolab only work on nauvis, i liked the idea of the freedom to just research everywhere

[tardy quarry]

we can’t rely on old fff anymore

[open abyss]

Was it really a freedom though? Everyone would just pick gleba

[stray wharf]

Under the old system, you could just bring along some miners, speed modules, speed beacons, and a nuclear reactor, and you'd immediately have a functional resource base. Bring enough belts, and you can tap a large enough number of patches to get a red belt or two of ores.

Now, you can't.

[red crow]

If you pick gleba you have at least move it from nauvis to gleba

[tardy quarry]

time u spend on finding ore patches and connecting them all together is less interesting than the time u spend on expanding biochamber production imho

and the new system allows u to produce ores anywhere

[stray wharf]

It's also time you don't have to spend engaging in combat.

[tardy quarry]

who said u have to keep combating to get more eggs

if they decided that making more biochamber will be important early on they can move egg production earlier

[stray wharf]

You have to engage in combat to get at least some eggs. Under the old system, you don't have to fight at all to start making iron and copper goods.

[tardy quarry]

even put egg in AG science

egg production is so fun I can’t imagine their only use is just for biochamber

[stray wharf]

Oh, and since producing iron/copper is a requirement of making weapons and ammo, ammo production itself now makes pollution. Unlike before where you could set up proper defensive cordons without caring about Pentapods.

[tardy quarry]

oh I’m sure the tiles absorb enough pollution for u to not need to worry that

its just a matter of tweaking pollution numbers

and maybe enemy related numbers

numbers are the easiest things to change for balance

making the enemies less crazy

so it seems like they did some pollution/combat balance for new Gleba

tweaking many if not all recipes

I hope science recipe is changed

jelly yum plus nutrient

[stray wharf]

Why not? It allows you to make the science pack from just one fruit.

[tardy quarry]

it doesn’t makes sense that a planet science doesn’t include all raw resources

[stray wharf]

Remember: Gleba has a lot of recipes, and now it has even more. Throwing that many recipes at the player, even as trigger techs, is going to be super-confusing. So you need to gate many of them behind the science pack. So the science pack can't be that complex to make.

[tardy quarry]

things changed, more recipes added means there can be recipes being removed

progression on Gleba has changed completely so it makes sense that all the crafting tree changes

[tardy quarry]

this

Alfonse what do u think bioflux is made of

[stray wharf]

Probably mashed Yumako and baked jellynuts.

They're the only direct fruit intermediates we haven't seen combined.

[winged pivot]

I bet the biter eggs go great with the fish 😋

[tardy quarry]

It was described in old fff as ‘a mysterious material’

[winged pivot]

I wouldn't eat the jelly nut raw tho

[tardy quarry]

just combining two fruits for bioflux doesn’t sounds very ‘mysterious’ tbh

unless they changed the role of bioflux

[open abyss]

I think the mysterious part was what it's used for

[tardy quarry]

now u need them for basic materials so they become simpler

its used to get u more iron and copper and it’s probably quite easy to make

[stray wharf]

Especially given that the "mystery" is that you mostly use it on Nauvis to hijack biter nests and turn them into prod module 3s.

[open abyss]

Would make sense to also make egg incubation an earlier tech then

[tardy quarry]

I agree with Alfonse that its probably made from two fruits mash…

but I don’t think the old version is the same

but only devs knows

or the NDA folks

[stray wharf]

You don't need them for basic materials; you get that from the spoilage recipe. You only need them for faster basic materials. That sounds like a research, not a trigger tech.

[tardy quarry]

anyone likes to answer this

[stray wharf]

Just like nutrients from yumako mash vs nutrients from jelly-yums.

[tardy quarry]

[open abyss]

I don't think farming bacterias from fruit is supposed to be treated as the main source of ores, just for kickstarting

[stray wharf]

... where else are you going to get the fuel to furnace those ores?

[tardy quarry]

I like the idea of breeding metal bacteria and I think the direct conversion from fruit to bacteria is just to seed the process

[tardy quarry]

yeah basically this

[barren oasis]

The sacrificial heavy oil of Gleba

[stray wharf]

Also, expecting players who just landed to start engaging in Kovarex processes that involve tier 2 intermediates is... not likely.

[tardy quarry]

u already need to loop asteroid chunks

[stray wharf]

Again, this sounds very much like a lightning rod vs. collector situation.

[tardy quarry]

and kovarex is needed for space science

[stray wharf]

One is a trigger tech, the other is a research.

[tardy quarry]

u probably can get enough ore from rocks

without needing to research bacteria

I mean for the first few biochambers

personal bots are FAST

harvesting rocks using personal bots is crazy

[tardy quarry]

I’m actually a bit happy that this has its niche in SA. It feels very useful to kickstart a planet

on Nauvis rocks basically become trash after burner phase and u use bots to just get rid of them

on a new planet it’s completely different

[stray wharf]

In SA, pretty much every time we see two recipes that do the same thing but with greater efficiency, it's a trigger tech vs. research thing. I don't know why this would be any different.

[tardy quarry]

I’m not seeing this trend tbh

‘everytime’ I mean we’re not seeing as much to draw a trend like this

[stray wharf]

Lightning rods vs. collectors. Basic vs. advanced liquefaction.

[tardy quarry]

do we know advanced liquefaction is a thing anymore

[stray wharf]

Nutrients from yumako mash vs. jellynut.

[stray wharf]

They said so.

I mean, they could have removed it since then, but I don't see why.

[tardy quarry]

Youtube b roll shows acid plus calcite and coal gives heavy oil

[stray wharf]

That's basic liquefaction.

[tardy quarry]

anyway

that’s just two examples

there’s nothing wrong to say ‘every time we see it’ but I wouldn’t say its a good support for a trend

[stray wharf]

Three examples, one from each planet.

[tardy quarry]

3?

[stray wharf]

Rods, liquefaction, and fresh nutrient making.

[tardy quarry]

u r sure nutrient making is not a trigger tech

[stray wharf]

Mash->nutrients has to be. I presume jelly-yum->nutrients is a research.

[tardy quarry]

u need jelly yum for AG science previously

u probably unlock nutrient from jelly yum by jelly yum tech

[stray wharf]

Yes, but you don't need to make nutrients from them. And 50 nutrients is a huge amount.

[tardy quarry]

u need to as AG science takes a lot of nutrients

[stray wharf]

... does it?

[tardy quarry]

it does

maybe it doesn’t anymore

[stray wharf]

No, you're right; it does take a lot.

Which is why it makes sense for an early research to give you a better way to make nutrients.

[tardy quarry]

why can’t it be a trigger tech tho

u need nutrients for basically everything

[stray wharf]

Then why have 2 nutrient recipes at all? Why not just have one?

[tardy quarry]

unlocking jelly yum can help all your production before u make science

better trigger tech progression

[stray wharf]

It's not "progression" if they're trigger techs.

[worn vigil]

I wonder what the best form of gleba bio item will be for shipping to nauvis, like the one that balances the best resource density with spoilage longevity

[tardy quarry]

can’t be more wrong

[stray wharf]

Remember: the whole point of trigger techs is to not deluge a player with a bunch of recipes.

[tardy quarry]

trigger tech progression is as important as science pack research progression

[shrewd citrus]

do keep this in mind when discussing recipes

things have changed since the original gleba reveal

so take the original gleba fffs with grains of salt

[tardy quarry]

Skaudus I forgot r u one of the NDA folks?

[shrewd citrus]

yes

[tardy quarry]

well u obviously can’t answer me this but

[shrewd citrus]

(knowing your track record in predictions I can just say right off the bat you're right)

[tardy quarry]

I was surprised that bioflux was in the item tree image instead of jelly yum

u have any clue?

[shrewd citrus]

yes

[tardy quarry]

👀

[shrewd citrus]

I'll let you ruminate on it