#Speculations

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

plucky sonnet
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For centralization purposes, we've decided to move the thread from https://discord.com/channels/139677590393716737/1177597309572366396 to a proper thread in #friday-facts, as previously requested by some. It's had a long time coming, happy speculating!

The old thread will not be deleted, just locked - you can still search it (unless discord search is ass) and look at old speculations, we do not want to remove any history.

plucky sonnet
vivid turret
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New planet this week?
We thought it was last week, but i'm extra sure this time.

misty falcon
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Oooh nice. This is where I wanted it to be. Thanks @plucky sonnet

crimson bough
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New biter size beyond behemoth - what colour would they be

misty falcon
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Purple?

crimson bough
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Good answer

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Medium biter is already kind of purple though

vivid turret
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Biters follow the color-coding of the game, white seems to be a color above green, so white I guess.

sullen forge
cobalt blaze
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i speculate open beta next week

tawny gulch
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I speculate nothing in particular!

barren oasis
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FFF is about changes to fish specifically

serene sage
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I speculate the FFF will accidentally contain the DLC's entire source code

candid glen
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I speculate that they have no plans to release a planet FFF until after the expansion drops just to get people speculating every week "This has to be the week, right?"

subtle summit
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I hope for another new "turret" for capsules, granades (and military robots). The Turret would launch capsules at biters. This could be handy for new very fast enemies or supplement flame turrets for poison. In general this would provide a usecase for automation of capsules and effective defences without fluids.

timid crescent
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Damn, and we were so close to 10k messages!
(thank you it's much nicer here than there)

tardy quarry
misty falcon
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I don't even care what exact content we get. It'll be nice.

sand saddle
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Test post please ignore ChibiSmug

sand saddle
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Speaking of Terraria, my Facebook is full of their board game kickstarter.

Factorio board game when?

tardy quarry
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board game is not automated ChibiSmug

plucky sonnet
sand saddle
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You’re not trying hard enough…

tropic basin
sand saddle
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@tardy quarry we actually had a monopoly “manager” that was a thing you put in the middle of the board and it kept track of all the properties sold and such. Actually enforced playing by the rules. Surprising how fast the game goes when you actually play it.

sand saddle
tropic basin
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what's the point of playing monopoly when you're not fighting over the rules every other turn? trianglepupper

plucky sonnet
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the whole point of monopoly was to show people how capitalism always ends up with one winner, everyone else a loser, and nobody has fun

sand saddle
# plucky sonnet the whole point of monopoly was to show people how capitalism always ends up wit...

https://youtu.be/VMwqYLSPg_c?si=V-aNJ3rEftRy7Ndj

YouTube
Billy Keels
Kid Crying About Taxes

To see how long distance investing works, go to pick up your FREE eBook at http://www.keeponcashflow.com/roadmap

Thinking about the phrase that "A Child Will Lead Them" and watching this video seem to go hand in hand.

A few friends of mine sent me this video a few weeks back and I just had to share it with you.

Imagine the true impact of ta...

▶ Play video
#

I feel you kid. I really do.

sand saddle
tardy quarry
sand saddle
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you can see my comment below too, the game is fantastic. Definitely recommend if you like board games.

young breach
indigo fog
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Oh hello

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New thread closer to home

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Sad that the forum post got locked before it reached 10k messages :(

hot pelican
weary widget
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you can feel it in the air

quiet marsh
cobalt blaze
misty falcon
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I'm blackpilled on Bwuhuo FFF. I'm ready for anything tmrw.

dull grove
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:doubt:

tawny gulch
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Space Age released last night, didn't you notice?

runic dragon
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Don't tease like that! Though a stealth release would be really funny

wanton igloo
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+find-mod Lunar Landings

ripe gyroBOT
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Lunar Landings

A small overhaul which expands the factory onto Nauvis' moon: Luna.

Author

Xorimuth

Downloads

183

weary widget
cobalt blaze
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based

tardy quarry
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I don’t know what to expect if its not Bwuhuo

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maybe combat overhaul

quiet gyro
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FFF on release day will just be:

"It's out, enjoy!"

late sentinel
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I'm less convinced it's possible we just see bacchus this week

tardy quarry
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FFF#411 SA release is soon…

late sentinel
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"it's out. go get it"

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let's be real no amount of promise or download link would make us not think it's a prank

tardy quarry
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SA release date announced and a whole new season of fff all about planet and enemy stuff before the release

tawny snow
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obviously last week's fff was to set up the new bwuwuhuwuo enemies

weary widget
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Bwuhuo here we go

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ok, hear me out... wouldn't you expect an FFF like this before Bwuhuo ?

chilly cloak
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I think Bwuhuo has a complex amount of development behind it

tropic basin
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damn it, still no Bwuhuo
they have to run out of non-Bwuhuo content soon(tm)

tawny snow
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legendary green ammo in space platform def is overkill and not an omen for what's to come right?

sand saddle
misty falcon
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I won! Technical FFF!

tardy quarry
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I like the color design, showing what’s the secondary resource from each asteroid type (copper, sulfur, calcite)

IMG_7433.png
tawny snow
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good eye

tawny snow
tropic basin
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me too

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I think the legendary uranium ammo is just Wube showing off.

late sentinel
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Which one is supposed to be calcite?

tardy quarry
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ice according to analysis to music fff

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we know sulfur is from carbonic

late sentinel
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That one is greenish instead of white powdery

tardy quarry
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greenish probably because its inside blue ice

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in the music fff we saw calcite output from ice asteroid

late sentinel
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Yes but, this means perhaps oxide has another resource

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because light green is not white

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I think it’s just what you said though

tardy quarry
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yeah, I think calcite is abit yellow-ish , combined with the blue shade of ice it becomes green

late sentinel
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oh my god you’re right

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I didn’t realize calcite had a slight yellow hue

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Can you source that?

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I remember it just being white

late sentinel
misty falcon
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And I was right about it. That said, last time we had a technical FFF relating to asteroids, we got vulcanus the week later.

late sentinel
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conspiracy.png

misty falcon
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Theory: Bwuhuo has fish, and when sending space_science there, it brings back thefish.

tardy quarry
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not as yellow as sulfur but I think its some yellow

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also the graphics may change

late sentinel
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No you’re right that’s yellow

late sentinel
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Adding a recipe is a lot easier than adding a machine

misty falcon
# tardy quarry

It will change though. Calcite graphics are not final as currently it's currently just off-white uranium

tardy quarry
misty falcon
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Likely yes

tropic basin
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i.e. it's been confirmed somewhere the only way to get legendary fish is through spidertron recycling iirc

tardy quarry
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its okay to have fish recipes as long as the fish is not allowed to be recycled

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or we could have a stable source of fish other than sending space_science

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the fish recipe can also reject quality modules

tropic basin
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If we can craft fish, we can craft quality fish. Not being able to recycle it makes it a bit harder, but we could still craft quality fish.

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I'm going to use occam's razor on that one :)

tardy quarry
tropic basin
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ah true

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still think we won't get a fish recipe

tardy quarry
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I do think we will need a stable fish source in some way

misty falcon
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I wonder if space_science still gives thefish

tardy quarry
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I also wonder this

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if not, then will we have a proper alternative

tropic basin
late sentinel
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I doubt space science yields fish anymore

late sentinel
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the number of legendary spidertrons is not so bad to be limited

tardy quarry
misty falcon
tropic basin
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If space science that's sent to space yields fish, there's no way to send it to space.

misty falcon
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What happens if you want to export satellites?

tropic basin
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they'll turn to space science notbad

misty falcon
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Also, when if ever, would you have space_science on a planet and want to export it? After you get space_science in space, you make it... well... in space.

tropic basin
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yeah, I was arguing from a consistency point when I didn't realise consistency has been broken already

misty falcon
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What even happens with other items if we put them in the rocket?

tropic basin
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Shouldn't they arrive at a Space Platform?

misty falcon
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What if there's no platform yet

tropic basin
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or multiple

tropic basin
viscid ferry
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Theory: Bwuhuo still has a lot of graphics being developed and we'll see it when it's ready

misty falcon
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Correct

serene sage
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I think the Bwuhuo FFF came out already and we just didn't notice

dreamy eagle
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It probably has an imaginary FFF-number (the mathematical concept, not just imagination-imaginary)

narrow vale
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I predict FFF (NaN) will ne about Bwuhuo.

serene sage
cobalt blaze
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Point and laugh at anyone who predicted bwuhuo 🫵 🤣

chilly cloak
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I predict bwuhuo will not come out next fff

weary widget
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I'm still smoking that Bwuhuo hopium for next week 🚬

late sentinel
tardy quarry
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we had technical fff (asteroid catcher) before vulcanus , Im still betting Bwuhuo

weary widget
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yep, if there is any consistency or reason in past patterns, we're primed to see it

weary widget
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It's possible that next week will be about

image.png
tawny snow
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If next week is not Bwuhuo them I'm betting space platform stuff

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(I want to bwelieve)

misty falcon
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Unlikely the API docs release before all prototypes are revealed, unless they redact them of course.

chilly cloak
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I mean they can tell us properties about stuff they already have revealed (api)

chilly cloak
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I predict that if theres a closed beta for mod developers it would be prioritising mod authors of library mods because without those library mods some mods wont be able to be updated until the library mods update or they adapt away from that library mod

tough ravine
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Modding api changes would be a great fff

misty falcon
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For sure. There's a decent amount of expected simplifications and wide reaching changes.

cobalt blaze
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there are 23 FFF's left if you assume that Spage comes out the last day of October

barren oasis
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Spage is a horrible nickname 😅

cobalt blaze
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i love it

cobalt blaze
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you hate spage? but its gonna be so cool!

quiet gyro
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Someone will make a Tiny space age mod and call it "SpAgeT"

serene sage
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*SpAgeTi

quiet gyro
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somebody a toucha my spaget

misty falcon
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Call a spage a spage

weary widget
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might as well post this here engithink

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I'm starting to think this epic unknown thing is actually real

vivid turret
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I suspect a bluff

weary widget
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at a minimum, its an interesting coincidence that 2 devs said this and it wasn't in any joking kind of fashion

misty falcon
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That said, both devs are known for their jesty remarks in the past

cobalt blaze
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lets speculate: what could it be

weary widget
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its hard to know where to even begin

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my best vague guess is something that will also greatly extend the endgame, chasing some perfect factory through immense resource processing

misty falcon
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It should be controversial

crystal dune
cobalt blaze
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i want to say automated delivery viehicles

tawny snow
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the only thing I can reasonably think of is a beacon rework, and that went surprinsingly well

crystal dune
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That's what I thought it would be until it actually happened

tawny snow
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thinking unreasonably, adding something like meta progression would be more controversial than quality imo, but I really really doubt they are adding something like that

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exactly!

crystal dune
tardy quarry
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final plnet has bot attrition would be surely controversial

crystal dune
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Bot attrition in any form would be the end of times

serene sage
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beacon range research?

crystal dune
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They're not adding bot attrition, and the robot energy usage planet modifier is its non-atrocious replacement

tawny snow
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thing is, it must be controversial, but overall good to the game, otherwise devs would simply not implement it. Robot attrition does not add anything to the game

late sentinel
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Well, earendel is at least a fan

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so I would not count it out entirely.

crystal dune
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Earendel is a fan of many things that are not coming to space age

late sentinel
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does not mean it is coming

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just means it is possible

weary widget
misty falcon
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They said it's more controversial than quality

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Good luck with that

weary widget
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thats what it makes it so hard

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the day the quality FFF came out, my first thought was "what the hell is this" and wasn't sure if I liked it in the game. but that was only because I didn't fully wrap my head around it, and a few hours later after discord convos, it quickly became one of the most exciting features to me (and many others)

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this mystery mechanic/thing could be the same way

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I don't agree with everything the devs do, but for larger changes they've always been well thought out and don't take away from the greater whole of the game

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with that said, when I see the word "controversial" I immediately think its something definitely good, but just might be initially misunderstood

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$.02

bitter garden
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The return of alien artifacts and making biters mandatory (at least on the final planet maybe?)

misty falcon
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That would be controversial

bitter garden
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to be serious for a moment, I think it could be a feature similar to cliffs that we are used to being able to disable but you can't for the new planets in the expansion.

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so biters would fit in that sense, but that would be a tiny bit more controversial than cliffs I feel like

tropic basin
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I hope it's not that. I really like that we can finish the game with Biters disabled.
I'm playing with Biters enabled, but I'm sure many people don't.

bitter garden
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well maybe if we look at the trend of the devs incorporating existing mods, we should take a look at some controversial mods 🤔
belts requiring power, buildings not being able to be moved, mixed ore fields that you can't build on... the possibilities are endless

misty falcon
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Ramps, where your car can jump over stuff, like cliffs

bitter garden
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you understand my vision

misty falcon
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A built-in squeakthrough would be nice (as long as it doesn't work on pipes)

tropic basin
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That's a good idea, but I'm sure none of these examples will be implemented.

bitter garden
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forced spaghetti belts well that's there with the recycler output

bitter garden
tropic basin
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What if Exfret is an undercover Wube employee collecting bad controversial ideas in his cursed thread?

misty falcon
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Link to thread?

tropic basin
misty falcon
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For some reason JG joined that thread too. Interesting.

tropic basin
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I'm glad his interactions show he's not into adding anything just to make us suffer trianglepupper

leaden socket
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Make quality not a whole number but a decimal

weary widget
leaden socket
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Let's call it Qualitorio
The things there have a decimal quality between 0~1, representing defects
As you progress, you make better quality items instead of making more; You do get to build more machines in late game, but that's far less than Factorio
No enemies, instead pollution make your machine stop working, so there is a hard limit on expansion
The recipes usually produce items with a certain quality range, for example, crude iron plate smelting is 1 iron ore -> 1 iron plate; simply heating is not enough to remove the impurities, so this only gives quality of 0%~50%
There is another recipe to improve the quality of iron plate, but it has a chance to destroy the plate
Later on you get better iron processing, they can give you high quality iron directly

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The quality of a product is determined by 2 things:

  1. The quality of ingredients. Garbage-in garbage-out. The recipe could define different weights on the input materials, and the sum of all weights may not add up to 1.
    Recipes could also require the input to have a minimum quality.
  2. The recipe. The process of crafting will introduce new defects. This is determined by the recipe and the 'precision' of the machine.
    Precision is a property of a machine, with more precision it will create less defects. There is no more productivity, only precision.
    More advanced research will also require higher quality items, instead of require more.
    In factorio, starting research is 10 red science, end game is 1000x7 science; in qualitorio it will be 10 red of any quality -> 20x4 of 95% quality or higher.
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Even with SA I don't think this thing is moddable, it has to be a standalone game. Optimization is not a big problem because you won't be building big.

honest summit
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😵‍💫

honest summit
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Maybe only turn it down.

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Slightly less likely in my mind is biters/some other enemy type being required on bwuhuo

timid crescent
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I like that the game is very customisable, even that you can brick a save on load by disabling resources entirely.
I do think the game puts far too much emphasis on this customisability, and should probably hide them behind in some sort of "advanced options" tab.

honest summit
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When I started you couldn't actually turn the biters off only put them on peaceful (cuz you needed artifacts). Maybe something like that is coming back

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You get spiders on bwuhuo and have to use them to automate biter farming

timid crescent
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I'm not a huge fan of directly making combat necessary for progression.

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It's 'necessary' indirectly though, biters will eventually come to attack you, and you eventually need more resources

honest summit
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Same, just thinking of something that would really rock the boat in the community but Wube could convince me is a good idea

timid crescent
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It would fit the bill for "controversial", but I'm still under the assumption that the eluded "controversial" change was the beacons changes.

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If they did make resources from enemies a thing, it definitely wouldn't be anything like artifacts were.

tardy quarry
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since we have recipes to get coal from carbon, maybe we will have a wood -> carbon -> coal -> oil processing chain

late sentinel
timid crescent
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There's wiggle room, we don't know when they changed the beacons afaik, they very well could have been showing older builds to hide the beacon change until it was revealed shrug

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It isn't unlikely there is something else though

errant crest
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it's not controversial enough if only beacon builds that actually got nerfed is 12+ quality_normal ones

leaden socket
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You can't just calculate them mentally

errant crest
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hm, that's kinda true. but you can use the same amount of beacons everywhere, and just precalculate this one number

weary widget
leaden socket
errant crest
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checked forum and reddit to see if rework was received more controversial there, but - not really. good chunk of some good reviews, and some concerns that it's not gonna change late game much

viscid ferry
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Maybe the beacon changes are the controversial thing but it didn't cause as much discourse as they expected? At least I haven't seen too much controversy about it.

misty falcon
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More controversial than Quality.

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"Quality was a mistake, we're removing it"

errant crest
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how about HUGE combat rework?
like nerfing flamer turrets to be 4 times weaker at the start, nerfing land mines activation time, smaller grenade damage at the edges, and using grenades will slow down player - just like any weapon, giving cooldown to fish healing, turrets needs time to activated (to make tower creep weaker), maybe stop poison capsules stacking infinitely, and much much more
it can be a mod, to not make a game way too hard for less experienced players

cobalt blaze
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a combat rework sounds interesting but that doesnt seem like a rework so much as a challenge mod

errant crest
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it's way too easy to find what to herf - engi is soo incredibly op ChibiOhno
maybe buffing gun turrets will do the trick, so they can be relevant for a longer time, before the reign of flamethrowers

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make grenade damage research stronger to compensate for smaller damage overall
initial laser turrets damage can be bigger, and power consumption can be smaller, while damage research might add power consumption back
simple combat bots earlier, cheaper and weaker to use instead of turret creep
first aid kits to replace fish at around green science
better SMG scaling from damage researches
making shotgun better at hitting targets right in front of engi

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buffing red ammo - rn switching to it is not really worth it, cost is way too high for the damage it will do

red crow
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Really controversial? Change how effects from modules stack: instead of additive percentages to multiplicative between different types... would also possible because they only stated effectivity change of beacons for now

cobalt blaze
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this isnt likely because we have raw numbers for how machines perform when given modules that match how it currently works. of course things could have changed since then

misty falcon
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We haven't seen anything combat related other than rocket turrets, for a really long time. I predict it's something in that area.

cobalt blaze
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doomlike first person mode

cobalt blaze
red crow
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Oh... more RTS controlling would also be a bit controversial

cobalt blaze
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uhhhh

misty falcon
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Little AIs that you need to handle, RimWorld or ONI style

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With a full schedule and wants and needs system

cobalt blaze
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there's litterally a new tool called the RTS tool

misty falcon
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That would be controversial.

errant crest
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more RTS would be quite fun, and kinda hard to really make controversial

cobalt blaze
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maybe DaH means controling the engingeer though RTS controls (only)

misty falcon
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DaH? ah DaHirsch

errant crest
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that would be controversial ChibiOhno

misty falcon
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(only) won't happen, but it would be helpful for some people

errant crest
misty falcon
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That's my prediction then. It's "out there" but can be contained to a planet (for starters).

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Possibly a full "pal" system

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Pals with guns.

cobalt blaze
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i like it and i hope its there

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ive never played rimworld but I kind of hate the ONI dudes so maybe not quite that much

misty falcon
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TBF the "dudes" part of ONI is the weakest part IMHO. I like the physics.

cobalt blaze
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I bounced off ONI

errant crest
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including improved version of something like ERM Terrans in SA would be absolutely amazing

misty falcon
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I had a 100% achievement run in ONI before the DLC. I bought the DLC. Haven't played it though. I was too deep into the Factorio goodness.

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My problem with it is that it has too many "unintended mechanics", which are so much better than doing stuff "properly" that it makes it feel wrong

cobalt blaze
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yeah

sand saddle
weary widget
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Bwuhuo ?

vivid turret
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If I predict Bwuhuo every week i'll be right eventually.

weary widget
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and then when you get it right, you can say "called it!" and you're technically right

misty falcon
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It's possible. They showed us the beginning of combat, so we can continue now.

vivid turret
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Notably it's been ~3 months since fulgora was shown, in another 3 months it'll be August with full release around the corner.

crystal dune
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I feel like we passed that moment where we could say “Bacchus is definitely this week”

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Now we are just in the “Bacchus could drop at any moment” time

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It may happen, but it also may not

viscid ferry
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do we think there there will also be a summer break from FFF's?

tropic basin
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please no, I need my regular doses

weary widget
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its the main vehicle for generating hype for a release as soon as 3 months away, that wouldn't be a good idea

tropic basin
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1 week is too long already
I need another Friday somewhere around Tuesday.

misty falcon
honest summit
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I am just hoping it's gameplay content. I actually think stuff like noise expressions FFF are super cool, but I would rather read that kind of thing post-release. Like you watch the behind the scenes documentary after the movie (usually)

cobalt blaze
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new theory: reverse miner. it puts ores back into the ground

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it might seem useless but its actually useful due to mining productivty

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(there's also reverse mining proudctivity research)

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second theory, they're going to remove the ability to turn off cliffs

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im not joking about 2nd theory

serene sage
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The safety net for all these changes is that the new terrain is extremely customisable. Even if you don't like some setting it's easy to adjust the map the way you like it. For example, I made some extra changes to the cliff frequency slider so that a value below 100% will remove cliffs from huge regions of the map.

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-401

Factorio
Friday Facts #401 - New terrain, new planet | Factorio

Surprise! There are 5 new planets in the expansion. The first planet you arrive on is a strange new land, rich with iron, copper, coal, stone, oil, and uranium. Everything a starting factory needs and more. There's also water, fish, grass and trees. Yes, this is a fertile land, and we will thrive. We will rule over all this land, and we will ca...

cobalt blaze
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that doesnt confim that you can set cliif frequency to 0

serene sage
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no, but it strongly suggests it (at least on Nauvis)

timid crescent
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What's a Bacchus?

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I've only heard of Bwuhuo

mint berry
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I speculate juicy asteroid info

misty falcon
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Juice then

tardy quarry
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map setting not allow disable cliffs shoob

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will that be controversial?

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we may have less map generation options for the “standard” template which enables achievements, and a “freestyle” template that allow u to modify everything, but disabling achievements

misty falcon
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Personally I'd love if there were achievements per save (in addition to global achievements)

young breach
tardy quarry
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will it be a Klonan FFF today?

misty falcon
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Yes, Klonan seemed sad we're not hyping

tardy quarry
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engineer character rework?

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or new new combinator

misty falcon
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Mech/AI thing

tardy quarry
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RTS control of bots ChibiSmug

dreamy eagle
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Klonan FFFs are good

tawny snow
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they will eventually run out of QoLs, bwuhuo is closer than ever...

hybrid briar
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Biding its time, it is... Lurk ever nearer, it does.

olive seal
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Surely we'll get Bwuhuo next week, right?

misty falcon
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Nobody expected it, but we knew Redo is coming

weary widget
cobalt blaze
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point and laugh at bwuhuo predictors SataniaLaugh

toxic merlin
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I think the next one will be about inventory. Just a random guess.

crimson bough
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Have faith believers

tardy quarry
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or, they could release the two planets in a row

misty falcon
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Graphics aren't done yet

tropic basin
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or, they could not release Aquilo at all

#

I think they're pushing out all QoL content now so they're not "diluting" the content before release.

weary widget
#

I'm sure as we approach release date, its going to be a nonstop freight train of banger FFFs

#

for maximum hype buildage

misty falcon
#

The final planet is full of QoL... It's called A-QoL-o

#

Do you think they'll keep the controversial thing to release?

tropic basin
#

It's not as controversial if we can't discuss it because we're busy playing.

misty falcon
#

Thought so too

olive seal
#

From FFF 373:

Two planets were way too repetitive and similar to Nauvis, and we had to do a complete overhaul to make them more different.
One of them is obviously Fulgora, but I wonder which one the 2nd one is...

crimson bough
#

Nauvis

misty falcon
#

I'd think Bwuhuo

weary widget
#

could be the final planet too. once you reach endgame, maybe you'll be spending a lot of time there, more than the other 3

#

but who knows

misty falcon
#

Maybe

tawny snow
#

my guess is iron/copper/stone + the oil sea

#

hmm but without recycling you would need coal too for plastic

misty falcon
#

So far iron_ore and copper_ore patches are nauvis only so far

tawny snow
#

I would not be surprised if Bwuhuo returns to more normal ores (except uranium, oil, and maybe coal)

#

it's the more nauvis-like of the three after all

olive seal
#

Is it confirmed that uranium is nauvis-exclusive?

hybrid briar
#

I doubt it will be once we have more planet reveals

#

hrm

#

I suppose, as a way to keep it relevant, yeah

chilly cloak
#

tbh if it was on every planet then uranium wouldnt be seen as rare and you would have like one on each planet as opposed to an entire mining operation with proper processing on nauvis

weary widget
#

the availability on a given surface is what makes it fun. not for all resources of course, but certainly for some 'special' ones

olive seal
#

I think the hidden processing plant icons in the new nauvis terrain fff kind of hint at that since the centrifuge appears together with the other planet-specific icons

chilly cloak
sullen forge
#

We've seen 2, we know the centrifuge...

misty falcon
#

Also, interestingly, the last building is from the teaser, while the middle one is new.

tardy quarry
thick prawn
#

Hello

indigo fog
#

Bwuhuo speculation at this point is just 🤡

#

So now none of us needs to guess it. We switch gears entirely!

#

And then they'll ruin all our predictions by dropping it

#

This plan is flawless

serene sage
#

I predict the Aquilo FFF next week

weary widget
#

devs alluded to something like that a long time ago when one of the first 2 got revealed, but enough time has passed where its not the most reliable info to base assumptions on

#

could be much more complete than we know, but they're just giving some time to the other misc improvements of the game

#

what gives that impression? not arguing just wondering

#

I'm sure if it gets desperate with time, they have a list of lower priority things they can always move to 2.1

#

so it isn't just this rigid project they have to rush to complete

quiet marsh
#

That seems normal. Someone has a good idea, everyone agrees it's a good idea, but they recognize it's not in scope for 2.0 and can be shoved off to the next major update

weary widget
#

also keep in mind that SA has been worked on since late 2020/early 2021, thats a lot of time for development. and we're just talking +/- a few months for their release goal coming up

quiet marsh
#

It's hard to even say if the Bacchus reveal is late. We have no way of knowing if there was ever any intention of showing it off earlier

honest summit
#

I think the "still working on it because we want to get it right" and "show off the really cool shit close to release to generate hype" theories have merit

cobalt blaze
#

but which theory has MORE merrit?

hybrid briar
#

my money's on "things are pretty decent and 99% of people won't notice that much change, but the artists will keep the grinding wheels spinning putting on finishing touches as long as there's time to do so"

#

...s/won't/wouldn't

honest summit
#

Also Wube would 100% delay release if they felt like it needed more polish

#

Especially since there isn't actually an official promised date, just an offhand comment from kovarex of "around October"

late sentinel
#

'Officially unofficially' is a term I coined that I have seen use around here for it haha

misty falcon
#

Many small issues: selecting latency hidden car, latency hidden car not being moved by belts, interaction with not yet published mechanic, screen positioning when deactivated latency hiding due to combat, etc.
Speculations?

tardy quarry
#

special enemy attacks?

#

Blizzard that slows everything?

#

perhaps Aquilo has blizzards that can temporarily slow down vehicles and bots

#

so belt would be more reliable than bots there happilyeverafter for constant throughput

cobalt blaze
#

the leaked "remote drive trains" works for cars. alternatively, you can rts tool cars too.

honest summit
#

Biters can get into cars and drive them around.

late sentinel
#

'interaction with' I think is key language here

#

my speculative energy is kinda dying out because it is so soon + so little to go off of.

#

@tardy quarry You feeling the same?

tardy quarry
#

yeah I feel not too passionate about fff recently

honest summit
#

Too much quality not enough life

late sentinel
#

It's not that I dislike the FFFs recently, they have been very good additions

#

There's just nothing to speculate on

#

any leads are just 'there is a thing'

quiet marsh
#

Beacon changes were the biggest recent change and there's not much speculation there

honest summit
#

Yeah I feel like the ones in the fall and winter were more fun as they seemed to be intentionally including stuff just out of frame or badly blurred

late sentinel
#

the speculation before the beacon changes was intense and fun

#

I'm glad Kovarex leaked it haha

#

it was a blast

honest summit
#

Like make the car driving videos drive past some buildings that haven't been described yet with alt mode off

late sentinel
#

Then hearing in the FFF it was even better

late sentinel
#

At least ones you can show

#

We've even seen glimpses of the green machine from Earendel's snow art

quiet marsh
#

There are presumably more military buildings

late sentinel
#

I doubt many

tardy quarry
#

either they became more careful about leaks after the beacon leak, or they run out of things for intentional leak..

#

or both

late sentinel
#

or they are stockpiling

quiet marsh
#

Or they just haven't wanted to leak as much, for whatever reason

tardy quarry
#

it is possible that they post all the Qol fffs before moving on to the final ride of SA content fffs

#

Gameplay contents mostly need to wait for graphics but qol usually don’t

#

so it makes sense that they prefer to post qol at this point

#

since it’s already quite close to release I expect most qol features are finished

late sentinel
#

I doubt that

#

I bet new ones are being added often

#

source: my software development vibes

tardy quarry
#

we did see redo very long time ago

late sentinel
#

really?

#

news to me man

tardy quarry
#

at least most planned qol are finished

#

in the remote view fff

tardy quarry
cobalt blaze
#

i still think back to "train interrupt interrupts are needed for reasons.... okay bye"

late sentinel
#

me too haha

tardy quarry
#

also the ‘manual rocket loading’ will be required for certain special cases

weary widget
#

I feel like its going to be used heavily, if you don't need a constant stream of a given item to a planet, at least for early-mid game (relative to having silos), having a dedicated silo seems very excessive

serene sage
weary widget
#

ah I wasn't aware it could work that way for multiple items, I figured for automatic mode (or how it will be used for most of the game), it basically functioned like a passive provider chest for platforms in orbit for whatever cargo it has loaded in it. I still don't understand how it would be implemented managing multiple item types to fulfill requests.

#

so if you had a mothership and you were visiting your first planet, and you set your logi requests on the platform to 500 belts, 50 splitters, 100 inserters, 50 assemblers etc, would it figure out how to get to the cargo limit as close as possible, and then keep launching rockets until the demands are fulfilled?

weary widget
#

from FFF#382: "In the automatic mode, the rocket silo will request just one type of item, based on the requests from orbiting platforms. By default it always waits until it has a full rockets worth before launching, so as to not waste any rocket capacity."

serene sage
#

right. it would launch full shipments of the requested items, until they are no longer requested.

weary widget
#

one of each item though, which sounds like you'll need a silo for each item type to do it automatically

serene sage
#

first, it will request (and then launch) belts. when belts are no longer needed, it will request (and launch) splitters, then inserters, then assemblers, etc.

weary widget
#

look I hope you're right lol, it just didn't seem that way from what I read in it

serene sage
#

fair

#

I trust the devs to know what they're doing.

weary widget
#

reading it again, I think I see it

#

damn... lets just pretend the last 40 min of convo didn't happen

serene sage
#

ur good, clarification is a necessary part of communication

weary widget
#

and ty for helping

#

anyway, that greatly simplifies how logistics can be done then

#

buffer chests will be very useful with this

misty falcon
#

That said, if an item is 400kg, the rocket will launch with 2 of them, filling 800kg and wasting 200kg. With logic we can fill up the rest.

timid crescent
#

hmmm, I'd be surprised if items didn't fit nicely onto a rocket

#

That is, you should be able to match 1000kg with only 1 type of item

misty falcon
#

You recon all items weigh a divisor of 1000? (or more)
i.e. 1, 2, 4, 5, 8, 10, 20, 25, 40, 50, 100, 125, 200, 250, 500, and 1000

#

I mean, it does give a lot of work space

#

But naturally it's all configurable so you could have the rocket at 1001 and everything breaks

timid crescent
#

Probably not exact divisors, iirc processing units is 300/rocket

#

Thinking of that I'm not sure, it's possible they can have decimal weight values

#

Don't see why not at least

misty falcon
#

Regardless, there will be cases where empty space is left.

#

I wonder if the game will be smart enough to fill that with other things that the platform needs

tardy quarry
cobalt blaze
#

speculation: the game will come out in 2025

misty falcon
#

At the latest

viscid ferry
late sentinel
viscid ferry
#

I just want the best version of Factorio and I don't really mind how long it takes.

tropic basin
#

it should be before the heat death of the universe

olive seal
#

While the Foundry and Big mining drill are very exciting when you start using them on planets other than Vulcanus, we still haven't shown what you could unlock with the Metallurgic science pack... Perhaps some other time!
From FFF-387
I hope that other time is rather soon. With Fulgora, they mentioned tesla items, whatever those are. I wonder if for Vulcanus it's "only" redacted_transport_belt and stack_inserter

#

But I hope there's other stuff too

misty falcon
#

I feel like steel prod is a metallurgic tech

serene sage
#

do we have evidence that stack_inserter is from vulcanus?

misty falcon
#

Not really. We know redacted_transport_belt is through the exclusive recipes, but not stack_inserter

serene sage
#

I thought I saw somewhere that belt stacking and redacted_transport_belt were unlocked at different places

#

oh found it! FFF #393, conclusion:

With Space Age adding planets, we can now easily lock things quite far in the technology tree, which is the case for both the Bulk inserter and the faster belts, with each being unlocked on a different planet.

misty falcon
#

If I understand correctly, stack_inserter and stacking in general are a late game tech

#

Possibly on Aquilo

serene sage
#

and since we have very strong evidence that redacted_transport_belt is from vulcanus, that implies stack_inserter isn't.

#

belt stacking on Aquilo would make sense, yeah

#

but there's three levels of belt stacking, and if the first is on Aquilo, there's not much space left for 2 and 3 in the tech tree

#

they could all be on the same tier, but that strikes me as wrong

errant crest
#

one might be behind last science

misty falcon
#

Stack 4 may be post-endgame tech

errant crest
#

first might be unlockable by landing on aquilo and doing simple trigger, second with aquilo sci pack, third is post-endgame

vivid turret
#

Trigger techs are for things vital to the planet.

#

Foundries are a trigger tech because you can't do anything on Vulcanus without them.

#

Recyclers are a trigger tech because you can't do anything on Fulgora without them.

chilly cloak
#

foundaries cost lube though so there may be an early game recipe for it

serene sage
#

wdym? foundaries aren't early game.

chilly cloak
#

then how would you get iron & copper on vulcanus

#

oh wait rocks could drop ore and that solves all the problems

serene sage
#

oh right to prevent being stranded

chilly cloak
#

This is quite a bit of speculation but thinking of the start of the progression on fulgora & vulcanus the solar panel seams required at the start and so the "steam all the way" acheivement is more difficult unless you unlock it once you get to space or a new early game power building

serene sage
#

I figure a bunch of vanilla achievements just aren't applicable to Space Age

chilly cloak
#

yeah i'd imagine some acheivements that required you to finish the game will just end on you launching your first rocket to space

chilly cloak
serene sage
#

especially since the foundry requires tungsten carbide in the first place

chilly cloak
#

yeah

#

It could be plausible an earlier version of the lava to iron, copper and stone recipe exists but instead just outputs ores or plates and is less efficient in the chemistry building

quiet marsh
#

Space platforms would be... Actually, they'd be impossible without solar. You couldn't process ice into water without power, or unbarrel water, so nuclear is out

serene sage
quiet marsh
#

Yeah. Maybe the achievement would be "beat the game without placing a solar panel on Nauvis"?

#

Which is about the same difficulty as the vanilla achievement

leaden socket
#

Nuclear power already decreased the 'no solar' difficulty a lot

deft swan
#

SA is a dlc though. How does steam even handle achievements related to dlc? Are there any games that can't be 100%'ed without buying the dlc? Seems to me like all the (edit: already-existing) achievements would be in the context of the base game, not SA.

serene sage
#

Steam includes DLC-exclusive achievements with the base achievements.

quiet marsh
#

We know for a fact that there are achievements for the expansion

leaden socket
#

I think steam does allow dlc to add achievements

#

I've played avorion and gotten a bunch of dlc-exclusive achievements

serene sage
#

I strongly agree that SA and vanilla achievements should be considered separately, though; I've been thinking of SA as basically a sequel, except it's built on the base game.

honest summit
#

I assume stuff like Steam All the Way and No Spoon will just not be available in SA, you have to play base 2.0 (or 1.1)

#

Wouldn't make much sense to make all those achievements, especially the genuinely challenging ones like no spoon suddenly become way easier

quiet marsh
#

Steam All the Way is doable with modifications to the implementation and specific requirements. No Spoon is almost certainly not practical in SA for 99% of people

weary widget
#

you'd need a group of people with a very specific plan to do something like that in SA I'm sure

honest summit
#

? People solo no spoon on 1.1, in SA a rocket launch will be literally 20 times cheaper + you don't have to build any yellow or purple science at all. i think speed running or not people will be launching rockets in about half the time they would in 1.1 or base 2.0.

weary widget
#

theres certainly that, but you also need to develop bases on 4 other planets, not to mention space platforms, whatever beating the game entails, etc

honest summit
#

Oh, we are talking about 2 different things

#

Rocket launch vs finish game

weary widget
#

oh my bad

honest summit
#

Okay so either way easier or way, harder lol

#

Either way should probably just be different challenge achievements for SA

weary widget
#

yeah it all depends what your measuring stick is

#

I'm sure rocket launch will still be an achievement, just like other milestones in game (first train, etc)

dull grove
#

I hope for at least two new tiers of circuits post blue circuits. Which would make the hyper-charged speed/prod of the new buildings better integrated

weary widget
#

yeah processing_units are moving to a midgame tier intermediate in SA

deft swan
#

1.1 basically treats speed_module as circuits post blue

weary widget
#

I suppose higher tier modules could be a substitute for higher tier circuits

honest summit
#

(and speed 2)

deft swan
#

source? not doubting, just curious

dull grove
honest summit
#

I mean the exclusive content is all the planet stuff which starts maybe 15-30 hours in depending on how fast you play

#

Of a designed to be 80 hour game

weary widget
quiet marsh
#

You still get landfill at the same time, there's just a new special landfill for lava and oil sands

honest summit
#

Landfill is not late game yeah just what people have been calling foundation landfill

weary widget
#

sry wasn't clear enough, thats what I meant

dull grove
quiet marsh
honest summit
quiet marsh
#

Aquilo has all new stuff

dull grove
honest summit
#

They have spoiled essentially nothing about the last planet besides the name (and not even that explicitly people just figured it out)

#

And that it's whiteish colored so people think it's a snow planet

weary widget
honest summit
#

Anyway I guess it depends what you mean by endgame tech but the cool stuff at the end of 1.1 looks like it will be solidly midgame

weary widget
#

with midgame being vanilla/SA stuff blended together from the planets

honest summit
#

And also there's tons of new midgame exclusive stuff like all the new buildings they have shown so far

quiet marsh
#

Additionally, we know fairly little about what is unlocked by research on the new planets. BMD and foundry are trigger unlocks, you get them just from arriving. Similarly for the EMP and recycler. There can still be lots left to see

weary widget
#

vehicles, power armor equipment, weapons, etc. we've been seeing entirely/almost entirely production related planet tech, and theres a lot outside of that

deft swan
#

Speaking of, the claw dude peeking out behind the foundry popup in https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-402 - I assume he's probably a new midgame unlock, as an alternative to bots + remote view for building on planets your character isn't currently on

weary widget
#

that would be cool to have versus travelling everywhere if you want to do something manually (build, kill enemies, etc)

#

I could see it having quality_any and equipment slots like power armor

leaden socket
#

It's an interesting challenge to try speedrun base game in 8h, but SA is too long for that

#

SA is too long for a speedrun to be fun for an average player

dreamy eagle
#

Why would there not be a speedrun achievement?

honest summit
#

Nothing is too long to speedrun lol

tropic basin
crimson bough
leaden socket
tropic basin
#

I hope 2.0 makes placing blueprints with modules in the editor easier. Currently I have to fulfill the module requests before overwriting changes.

#

And I definitely wish for deconstrutor tiles in bps to be a thing.

young breach
tropic basin
#

In the gif at the end of the FFF. The excavator arm is not part of the Foundry.

honest summit
static root
#

maybe i'm blind but i don't see anything on the picture

dreamy eagle
#

It is more clear in the animated version

honest summit
#

do you see the red circle I crappily drew? lol There's what looks like an excavator (yellow) on the end of a metallic/grey arm of links

#

yeah highly recommend watching the gif cuz it moves and is way more noticeable

static root
#

just checked out the gif, i wonder what that could be

honest summit
#

given that it looks like an excavator, and it has a passive animation (implying it's a player or part of like a spidertron) I would guess it is something that helps either you or a spider mine stuff

static root
#

omg

#

smol spidertron is coming

honest summit
#

maybe it massively increases your personal mining speed (justice for steel axe?)

young breach
static root
#

tentacle extension for your power armor, like Dr Octopus

#

could be that it extends your reach ?

honest summit
#

that would be cool

static root
#

although the way it moves doesn't really lool like it could do that

honest summit
#

still looks like it digs, but honestly struggling with why you want that

#

generally just stamping down big mining drills seems way more effective

static root
#

personal inserter shoob

honest summit
#

lmao

#

for when the F key is too far away

young breach
#

Maybe it is for clearing snow on a snow planet?

static root
#

ooohhh

honest summit
#

maybe it lets you really slowly mine cliffs

#

before cliff explosives

young breach
#

That would be handy too

#

If there is like 1 Cliff really in the way

honest summit
#

yeah

static root
#

idk it'd be kinda weird to have a cliff remover as an armor module

#

but i guess we dn't even know if it's an armore module

#

btw is there any module that adds graphics to the player ?

honest summit
#

no

#

(that we know of)

tropic basin
#

the full thing is visible in the thumbnail of FFF-389

Unbenannt.png
plain ermine
#

the viking girl

tropic basin
honest summit
#

Doesn't look like a claw/excavator armor to me, although it doesn't look like standard player graphics either

tropic basin
#

why is Discord being a dick and showing the picture instead of the link without asking me?

honest summit
#

Spite.

plain ermine
#

ask a moderator to remove embed perms from you

honest summit
#

@plain ermine Are you able to assign credit or blame to that picture being named choochoo-MF.png?

young breach
#

Looks like an old dive suit, so that makes me think it's a suit for harch conditions

tropic basin
#

I wouldn't use an (old) dive suit for harsh conditions.

plain ermine
young breach
tropic basin
#

oh, those

#

I still wouldn't.

honest summit
#

I could see one of the planets that hasn't been revealed yet having a hazardous atmosphere and you have to gear up to explore large swaths of it

tropic basin
#

have we seen the Engineer walking around on Vulcanus?

young breach
honest summit
young breach
#

Oh engithink

honest summit
#

the gifs from the first reveal FFF they are exclusively driving a tank around

#

just realized

#

and the player doesn't appear in the mechanics FFF for vulc

tropic basin
#

that's what I thought. A venus-like planet is not nice to walk around on with a space suit.

#

Fulgora is fine apparently

honest summit
young breach
plain ermine
#

posseses technology to split atoms and travel to other planets, uses an OLD diving suit

young breach
young breach
honest summit
#

tbf it's just the jump from no modules to has modules

tropic basin
honest summit
#

Yeah, wanna drop a better picture to prove it's a new suit?

#

😛

young breach
wanton igloo
wanton igloo
plain ermine
young breach
#

Oh lol, I missed that

#

I searched for viking and couldnt find any previous messages, but it was a picture xd

plain ermine
#

my mistake it was a barbarian girl

young breach
#

soooooooooo, my speculation for friday: barbarian girl or Bwuhuo

honest summit
#

We can't be wrong about bwuhuo 3 4 weeks in a row!

young breach
#

True

dull grove
#

I think we're up to 11 (Nauvis rework) or 13 (fulgora scrap)

cobalt blaze
tardy quarry
#

Bwuhuo won’t be there before we giveup predicting it ChibiSmug

weary widget
#

they'll have to release it eventually, since aquilo and other later game stuff builds on it

honest summit
#

Oh I just meant the reddit post that claimed we would get bwuhuo 12 weeks after fulgora because fulgora was 12 weeks after Vulcanus which was 12 after announcing space age

#

So therefore it was obviously going to be #410 (fulgora being 398)

cobalt blaze
#

；ー；

Screenshot_2024-05-28_at_11.06.17_AM.png
plain ermine
misty falcon
#

Sadge

tropic basin
#

sage 🌿

cobalt blaze
#

even more sad is we dont have poll feature anymore

weary widget
#

back to using emoji reacts, like we're a bunch of cavemen

cobalt blaze
#

speculations for friday: polls!

misty falcon
#

I'm not going to be here live for the FFF, so I don't really care what it will be... meaning it'll probably be something huge

cobalt blaze
#

holding shift while launching the game loads the last map

#

where are you going, SB?

misty falcon
#

Friends' wedding

tawny snow
#

bwuhuo gives it's most QoL FFF's to it's strongest believers

#

this week for sure

weary widget
#

maybe they should reschedule

chilly cloak
#

Maybe the recent fff's have something to do with Bwuhuo bfff (too much speculation)
car latency for dogging trees?
rocket turret for fighting specific bitters?
diminishing beacons for possible beacon unlock is on Bwuhuo ?

sullen forge
#

Or just filler because they are still developing the planet

chilly cloak
#

thats more likely

errant crest
#

shooting priorities for turrets gave me an idea: what if we gonna get better upgraded ammo for turrets, that are actually useful? (instead of boring and kind of bad ones, like piercing ammo)
fast shooting low damage and cheap one for erasing any amount of small biters (not gonna pierce mediums that well)
slow, pricy and high damage to deal with mediums (insane overkill for small biters)

candid glen
#

You say filler like it's a bad thing. There's plenty of really cool stuff in the FFFs even without a new planet.

cobalt blaze
dull grove
#

I know the devs don't like rate calculators and don't intend to add it. But how about making it a SA endgame tech and add it as a power armor module (kinda like an onboard computer).

vivid turret
#

That is a worse idea

weary widget
#

personally I don't mind it being a mod as its easy enough to enable, but I just wish mods like these didn't disable vanilla achievements

sand saddle
#

I would just like to be able to see what the machine is actually doing over the course of a minute without having to do a bunch of math myself.

weary widget
#

its been suggested before to show the raw input/output items/sec somewhere like the tooltip thing on the right, which obviously would change depending on quality of the machine, modules, beacons

#

even that would help a lot with figuring out the numbers

sand saddle
#

Yeah. I feel like items / sec is harder to do because it doesn’t take long before those numbers are less than 1. And then late game they all go back up. But items/min (in theory) would always be larger numbers.

weary widget
#

good point. there wasn't any misunderstanding but just to explicitly say- items/time would be the maximum rate without anything to interrupt it

sand saddle
#

Yeah. Definitely agree.

weary widget
#

items/min would be more useful for slower crafts, items/sec would be useful if you want to saturate the output belt (or deplete the supply belts without exceeding that)

sand saddle
#

Interface setting ChibiSmug

weary widget
#

but yeah, it would be helpful not only for people like us, but newer players so they have an easier to understand visual of whats coming in/out per time interval

dull grove
#

What hasn't been brought up yet: Beacon rework and Quality will be a mess. And manual calculation goes against Automation. Checking a web-calculator will also be a huge pain (1x leg. Y, 2x uncommon X, ....).

raw input/output items/sec somewhere like the tooltip thing on the right
This. make it a debug/optional mapgen setting. I'd be happy adding some Machines together. Especially since one doesn't have to deal with Productivity.

crimson bough
#

Or at least provide it as a mod that doesnt disable achievements

sand saddle
#

I want to output my production statistics to a time series db that I can see out side the game with grafana. Then I can have my second computer run the stats all the time while I build!

(Yes there’s already a mod for that)

timid crescent
#

Realistically looking at how full a belt is will be good enough in all cases.

#

I've built a thing -> the belt isn't full -> I can add more production

#

I've built a thing -> the belt is full -> I can cut back or add more belts

#

Especially with vertical scaling through quality, better/new machines, and better single beacons

sand saddle
#

That’s fine when all the production is in one place….

#

Actually having the production window remember what you were looking at and whatever was filtered for like 5 minutes would go a long way…

weary widget
#

what would be nice is if there was a hand curated list of whitelisted mods which wouldn't affect it if enabled

#

I'm not even talking covering all mods, but only for the top handful of mods which are just for calculating throughput, planning your factory, and things like that

#

stuff that doesn't directly affect any gameplay (new or modified entities, objects, etc)

#

and some kind of agreement where if the mod ever exceeds that scope, its whitelist will be revoked

#

just a thought

honest summit
#

Yeah it has been proposed (many times). Turns out maintaining a whitelist is a lot of work and honestly a lot of the things that would get whitelisted are QoL mods that they seem to (currently) be more interested in just integrating into vanilla anyway

weary widget
#

yeah ideally everything we want just gets put into the game lol

#

I'm just saying that the top 10 downloads doing this stuff might have 80-90% of the downloads. just by having those whitelisted will make the majority of people happy

honest summit
#

I think the main QoL style mods that they haven't talked about integrating often come down to "A difference of opinion in game design"

#

like squeak-through type stuff that is very popular

#

factorio devs clearly have the opinion that making the base walkable is part of the challenge

weary widget
#

and they still give ways to bypass it later on; bots can fly over obstructions, and spidertrons can walk over them

timid crescent
#

Calculator mods also create competing incentives to the intended experience

honest summit
timid crescent
#

It's fine to thoroughly calculate throughputs and balance everything perfectly, but that goes against the intended gameplay loop of always tinkering, always expanding, always chasing and fixing a bottleneck

weary widget
#

I understand. it would remove or at least diminish that aspect

timid crescent
#

Don't get me wrong, it's incredibly satisfying to create a 'perfect' 100% operational base with no downtime, but once you've achieved that it disincentivises you from updating/changing it

#

It's funny seeing as creating a no downtime base is exactly what satisfactory incentivises

#

With the infinite resource nodes, manually adjustable machine speeds, complete black outs when power consumption goes over production, resource sinks, etc.

crimson bough
#

I like the idea of a vanilla calculator if it can do better than web calculators and still allow mods

#

Make it an official mod like SA so you dont have to have it enabled

weary widget
#

it never would've been something I'd design an entire base with so its some perfect holistic unit. I like making nice optimum production areas for things, and having the numbers to see "this is capable of saturating a red belt with processing units" would help without trial and error. and with quality_any (assuming you're using this mechanic and want to go deep with it), many things will be rebuilt 3, 4, 5+ times if you enjoy going big

honest summit
#

I think it's fair to have the "analysis" part of engineering occur outside the game though

#

like opening one of the online tools or making your own spreadsheets isn't an enormous ask if you want to make a factory or subfactory be "perfect"

timid crescent
#

I think the issue with displaying some sort of production rate on the machine is that it's conditional, and any attempt to give an average over time needs to include arbitrary values (how long to average, what measurements to use, etc.)

#

It a lot of bases, you only have one area making any given product, so the production screen should be fine for seeing how much stuff you're actually making in any given build

weary widget
timid crescent
#

Any more detail or planning beyond that is fine to be managed in external tools imo

#

Perhaps, it's probably the only viable option you could add, and personally I don't think it's that useful compared to what we already have

weary widget
#

but anyway, my main gripe is that it disables vanilla achievements, for something that isn't modifying the game in any substantial way

timid crescent
#

Especially now that you can do math in game dialogue boxes and stuff

#

Yeah 'officially sanctiond' mods would be nice to have

#

But moderating it is a huge pain

weary widget
#

if a mod gets that status, IMO it would help a lot to have some kind of agreement with the mod author that the mod can't exceed its current scope and for instance enable cheats, new items, etc. otherwise it will permanently be removed from the official list.

timid crescent
#

It's a messy gray area I guess

weary widget
#

having your mod on a list like that would be one of the most prestigious things that could happen to your mod, so I think people would largely behave

timid crescent
#

which is why it's easier to just draw an simple line

weary widget
#

yeah

timid crescent
#

Here's a question, what does 'meaningfully impact gameplay' even mean?

#

I'd say my line is that if you could theoretically do it with a pen and paper, it would probably be outside that definition.

#

Then again, I should reframe that as 'not cheating' rather than 'not impacting gameplay'

#

It does change how you play, it just isn't cheating

weary widget
#

well, nearly any mod would impact gameplay, I guess the real question is does it veer far enough off that you'd consider the game no longer vanilla, but modded? there are several levels to this. you can have the simple reply "any mod makes it modded." but if you have a more relaxed interpretation, you need to establish what things would constitute changing the game enough that is beyond what the vanilla game intends? the level above that- even if its not what the vanilla game intends at this moment (ie, the calculators we're talking about), is it something in line with the greater philosophy of the game by the devs? we have so much data to use to do all of these precise setups anyway. so it could be argued you're simply repackaging that data and putting it in a different format thats more helpful in certain contexts. maybe it fits within that philosophy, maybe not.

weary widget
#

I'll just use mods and not like it disables vanilla achievements lol

#

this isn't a hill I'm going to die on

quiet marsh
#

I think any whitelist of mods would cause an endless deluge of people asking why X mod isn't on the whitelist, since it doesn't change gameplay

quiet marsh
# dull grove What hasn't been brought up yet: Beacon rework and Quality will be a mess. And m...

I think this is intentional. The math is messy enough that the only sensible solution is to add more production when you don't have enough of whatever resource. There are way fewer "build in this style or people will call you inefficient" things in the game, because it's way harder to tell if they even have the option, and way harder to look at an overview and determine if it's out of ratio. You're not supposed to make a single set of blueprints that you use for the rest of forever because it's mathematically optimal as proven by a hundred internet nerds, you're supposed to have a large collection of cobbled together blueprints that you fiddled with for hours

timid crescent
#

Counterpoint: the calculation isn't manual, it simulates itself once you've built something thinkaboutit

cobalt blaze
sand saddle
plain ermine
#

unless its a mod like >>shrek<<

digital condorBOT
#
Shrek

This mod replaces the engineer character with our beloved ogre.
Now supports 2nd tier of armor!

Owner

jerzygorski

Category

None

Game Version(s)

1.1

Downloads

4.08K

Updated

2 years ago

ripe gyroBOT
timid crescent
#

Bot didn't broke

#

I don't think it's meant to do that

plain ermine
#

why there are 2 bots competing with each other?

sand saddle
#

Squeak through vs rate calculator for “cheating” tho.

timid crescent
#

μBot is meant to be down afaik

#

being replaced by ρBot

#

Seems some things were missed

sand saddle
#

I mean, people are free to do what they want in a single player game. But there’s a pretty discernible difference between changing the game to remove the complexities of building VS auto-excel-spreadsheet

misty falcon
#

Squeakthrough is cheaty. Rate Calculator is just lying to yourself.

crimson bough
#

Whats your strategy for playing without a calculator? Calculating yourself or just estimating?

misty falcon
#

Factory Planner 🙂

manic yarrow
misty falcon
errant crest
crimson bough
#

I just make my base ergonomically terrible and tell myself "its fine ill have spidertron soon enough"

misty falcon
#

Personally I'd love a "single building calculator" showing inputs/sec and outputs/sec. Anything that combines buildings is lying

timid crescent
#

The furthest I'd go with a rate calculator is individual machines telling you what their theoretical max rates are, given modules etc.

misty falcon
#

Exactly.

#

With all the modules/beacons giving us +1759% speed, I'd want to know what it can actually do

timid crescent
#

"this machine, given these ingredients per second, will produce these outputs per second/minute when fully powered"

misty falcon
#

Many new players are confused by "5 second recipe" when the machine has 0.75 crafting speed

sand saddle
#

Or just “look at the belts”

misty falcon
#

Hell, I am confused by those numbers. I hate having to calculate it in my head all the time.

sand saddle
misty falcon
#

Speaking of Rate Calculator lying, Raiguard floated the idea of adding a matrix calculator to it, so it won't lie 🙂

sand saddle
misty falcon
#

Where you see the actual current expected rate (ignoring logistics) and showing where your bottlenecks are

timid crescent
#

Yeah I remember that

#

Also about it being pretty daunting because they'd basically have to re-implement factory planner in it's entirety just to hide it behind the rate tool.

misty falcon
#

Not in its entirety, just the matrix calculator

timid crescent
#

I'm probably misremembering a lot

misty falcon
#

It would use the current buildings as a baseline

#

Factory Planner does a lot more than just calculating 🙂

dreamy eagle
#

Like what?

timid crescent
#

Planning thinkaboutit

misty falcon
#

Planners, recipe finding, floors, mini-mode, beacon/module input

dreamy eagle
#

How is that not under "calculator usability"?

timid crescent
#

It is though

#

Doesn't make it calculating

dreamy eagle
#

I think we have different concepts for what a calculator is in this context

misty falcon
#

There's a difference between just the calculation, and the interface for the calculation

#

One works backwards, and the other works from existing buildings

#

For now Raiguard is still working on his "not fpedia" upgrade to recipe book, so matrix rate calculator will be a while

timid crescent
#

fpedia is a funny word

#

I like it, it's fun to say

misty falcon
#

I would say FP but FP is Factory Planner

#

fedia?

timid crescent
#

no, fpedia

#

saying "fp-" is great

misty falcon
#

yea fpedia still makes the most sense

#

Check the 'pedia

sand saddle
#

Pediatorio? engithink

wanton igloo
#

shrek<<

ripe gyroBOT
# wanton igloo >>shrek<<
Shrek

This mod replaces the engineer character with our beloved ogre.
Now supports 2nd tier of armor!

Author

jerzygorski

Downloads

3997

wanton igloo
#

Bot permissions fixed

tardy quarry
#

imo this is one of the core gameplay loop of Factorio

#

unless u r playing mods where ratio is crucial, then the above method should be enough

#

also rate calculator doesn’t solve everything for factory design. U also need to consider factory and inserter layout especially if u r doing direct insertion, which usually don’t give u perfect ratio anyway

#

Add more machines if input is sufficient and output is insufficient. Add more input if input is insufficient. Until output is sufficient, done. Simple enough for me

misty falcon
#

Planners allow for more interesting factories. If we build it all to be dynamic and easily changeable, it's boring

tardy quarry
#

not necessarily. U can use this method to iterate the design until u have a good enough block to use elsewhere

dull grove
misty falcon
#

Late game designs in SA are going to be very fluid, what with the amount of quality for stuff, shuffling designs around.

#

Getting max legendary everything is so long that intermediate endgame factories are prudent

dull grove
#

Theoretically you can blueprint your test, create creative test world, insert blueprint, wait for production data to complete, watch statistics... That's annoying. Creating BPs solely in creative is also annoying if using different quality buildings - which is the point.

#

Not having it also disincentivizes experimenting cause people'll just grab BPs from someone else. 1.1 already has this problem to an extent. SA will only exurbate this.

errant crest
#

i'm planning to eyeball and overproduce stuff - taking someone else's BPs is insanely boring anyway

tropic basin
#

all the 1.1 prints will be invalidated soon

misty falcon
#

Taking someone else's BPs is like using cheat codes in games. I was over that 30 years ago

#

It's always funny to me how new games have mtx "to skip the grind"... so you're saying your game is not fun enough to play that people will want to pay to skip it??

errant crest
#

so you're saying your game is not fun enough to play that people will want to pay to skip it??
well, yes trianglepupper
sounds about right

crystal dune
#

Just look at minecraft 😭 All its players do nowadays is try to find more ways to avoid playing the game

misty falcon
#

Well they play modded 🙂

#

Nothing wrong with a game that is also a platform for extra games

crystal dune
#

Accepting into your heart that vanilla survival is slop and just embracing minecraft as an engine instead of a game... That is true enlightenment

misty falcon
#

e.g. the Battle Royale genre pretty much started with a Minecraft mod

dull grove
#

Taking someone else's BPs is like using cheat codes in games. I was over that 30 years ago
I'm not starting a discussion on the definition of cheating. It's simply QoL. As most people will agree, since Raiguard's mod has over 200k downloads...

misty falcon
#

It was QoL for me as a kid, to play games without the stress of dying etc

weary widget
#

data expressed in more useful ways for the players would benefit everyone, new and veterans. we have the statistics and electric windows which show specific data, seeing clear machine throughput in an easy to read format is really no different except on a localized scale

tawny snow
#

guys tommorrow is bwuhuo day

#

can you believe it?

misty falcon
#

I'm not sure about that

#

But it's gonna be a good FFF regardless

viscid ferry
honest summit
#

Bwuhuo or riot

mint berry
late sentinel
#

bwuhboublo fff is canceled

weary widget
#

week 6 of coping: anyone else feel Bwuhuo tomorrow?

honest summit
#

I want to believe

#

But my head tells me it will be filler like "FFF #413: Clarifications on Undo/Redo"

weary widget
#

"Revisiting the about page, part 1/5"

late sentinel
#

I want to point out that our Bacchus guesses were based on only a few data points and that the situation is also dynamic

tawny gulch
#

The definition of insanity is repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. 🤣

late sentinel
#

Would you make the same argument for rolling dice 😉 ?

tawny gulch
#

(Un?)fortunately for you, we don't use dice rolls to decide FFF topics

crystal dune
#

The dice in question

SPOILER_image.png
#

We still to this day don't know what's on the 6th side of this die

#

quality_any maybe?

tawny gulch
#

Some mysteries are better left unsolved

cobalt blaze
#

i just realized that the 4 and 3 arent opposite like a normal die

tawny gulch
#

Literally unplayable

#

Where is my refund

cobalt blaze
#

now i understand why quality is terrible

#

the dice doesnt make sense !

honest summit
#

@tawny gulch speaking of quality, there was a long argument here the other day about how levels of quality match up with levels of modules aka how does an uncommon speed module 1 compare to a normal speed module 2 etc. Did you guys rebalance any of the 1,2,3 base values for quality? Or is that a topic for another fff?

tawny gulch
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

cobalt blaze
#

"FFF #413: Module values are not changing. Thats all! Assemble your thoughts in the usual places!"

crystal dune
#

And also not really necessary imo

#

But it's not like I was there for the apparently long argument. And there must have been something to argue about, so maybe I'm missing something

late sentinel
#

I doubt you already know the FFF schedule

#

One hiccup in development and that is out the window

cobalt blaze
#

you have to remember that their real job is to make the game not create FFFs

#

like they probably think as little as possible about hte FFFs

honest summit
#

FFF #413: Haters gonna hate.
We have removed the ability to turn off cliffs.
We have removed the console commands to get rid of them.
We decided that quality is not optional and miners will automatically have a base quality chance equivalent to 1 module.
Please 'deal with it 😎 ' in the usual places!

cobalt blaze
#

lmao

tawny gulch
# 
Version: 2.0.0
Date: 69/420/69420
  Changes:
    - Removed all map generation settings. You will play the game our way, or the highway!
late sentinel
#

Klonan thinks about the FFFs a good bit, I can tell.

late sentinel
honest summit
crystal dune
cobalt blaze
tawny gulch
cobalt blaze
tawny gulch
#

Help, I need to pack for my trip but I'm shitposting as a form of procrastination

cobalt blaze
#

where are you going?

honest summit
tawny gulch
cobalt blaze
#

oooooo

late sentinel
honest summit
#

Office visit or vacation?

cobalt blaze
#

no im helping! in europe its late spring so you should bring spring clothes

tawny gulch
cobalt blaze
#

honestly just pack a laptop and a credit card. buy the rest when you arrive

late sentinel
#

I mean, it's the kind of thing that even if you are vacationing, it's so close to wube so might as well stop by

tawny gulch
#

I may or may not be sleeping in the office

late sentinel
#

Who even shows up to the office?

#

Most people I've talked to here seem to suggest they work from home

honest summit
#

Gotta get that OG software dev experience

crystal dune
#

I love this emoji combination, they're so perfectly lined up

cobalt blaze
tawny gulch
#

The problem is figuring out where to buy stuff. There is no costco in czechia!

#

Gotta like, actually google where things are

misty falcon
#

Say, raiguard, will you do a Space Age stream once it comes out?

cobalt blaze
#

what a strange and foreign civilization

late sentinel
#

Have you thought of asking some locals?

#

If you know any of course

tawny gulch
#

If only

cobalt blaze
#

how long is the trip?

tawny gulch
#

I started Duolingo'ing Czech a few months ago but then I got a new phone and forgot to reinstall the app so it stopped reminding me and I fell off completely

tawny gulch
cobalt blaze
#

oh dang!

honest summit
#

Not letting you go home until release?

cobalt blaze
#

ae you staying in prauge the whole time or moving around?

tawny gulch
#

I'll be in Prague the whole time. There is a lot of stuff to see around there.

cobalt blaze
#

please dont sleep in the office for serveral weeks 😭

tawny gulch
cobalt blaze
#

LOL

honest summit
tawny gulch
# tawny gulch Oopsie

It's not like I'm sleeping on the floor, there are a few bedrooms, a bathroom with a shower, and a kitchen, it's great

honest summit
#

I do a bunch of foreign travel for work and my Japanese is atrocious.

late sentinel
#

I didn't know that actually.

cobalt blaze
#

i mean honestly you really dont need to pack much, you can just wash your clothes and re-wear them

tawny gulch
#

Yeah I'm only packing a week's worth

cobalt blaze
late sentinel
#

I just looked at what I could see of the office online and it looks like a random apartment (from the outside)

#

But I probably found the wrong place

cobalt blaze
#

i mean if there's a bedroom that's fine I assumed you were gonna sleep under a desk lol

honest summit
#

Literally just Kovarex's house

weary widget
#

who would've thought the Wube offices doubled as a short term hotel

late sentinel
#

One of the companies I worked for had like 9 employees living at the ceo's house so I wouldn't be surprised

cobalt blaze
#

most stuff can be bought. shampoo, etc. even stuff like umbrellas. better to not have to take that on the plane

crystal dune
#

It's better to craft them on-site boskid_think

cobalt blaze
#

just like plates

crystal dune
#

The IR3 player in me agrees garlicdoggo

#

Fun IR3 fact: Even if lead is used exclusively in the form of plates, and brass in the form of gears (crafted from plates), and plates are 1:1 with ingots, it is still marginally better to transport them in ingot form. This is because ingots can be stacked, and while stacking does not increase storage density, it does increase load and unload times by way of increased belt throughput

dull grove
tawny gulch
#
  • Yeah, last year I was pleasantly surprised at how English-friendly Prague was, though once I got outside of Prague it was a bit less so.
  • Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.
  • I don't drink.
crystal dune
#

Are there even any countries in europe that don't have compulsory english class? It's always seemed so normal to me

tawny gulch
#

Packing update: I got distracted reading old FFFs and still haven't started packing

dull grove
honest summit
dull grove
chilly cloak
#

I havent gone to mainland europe yet despite being european myself

#

I want to visit austria though

dull grove
#

hmmm. Uk, Corscia, Sicily, Malta?

chilly cloak
#

Wales so uk

plain ermine
chilly cloak
viscid ferry
#

Raiguard is travelling all the way to Prague to personally deliver the handwritten FFF

tawny gulch
#

Our messenger owl is out of commission, so we have to make some sacrifices

honest summit
dull grove
late sentinel
honest summit
#

@tawny gulch did start this morning by calling the people predicting bwuhuo this week insane so it's not looking good

cobalt blaze
#

think about the fact that if the expansion comes out at the end of october, there's 22 FFF's left

#

we've had 40 FFF's since and including the Spage annoucmeents, which means we've seen 2/3's of all Spage FFF's

#

ish

misty falcon
#

Front loading qol to give JG time to work

honest summit
cobalt blaze
#

if the expansion comes out on Aug 25, exactly year after the "about a year from now" FFF post, there are 13 FFF left, which means we've seen 75% of them

honest summit
#

so we'll finally get Bwuhuo in mid september, you heard it here first

cobalt blaze
#

lol

#

Out of the 40 FFFs we have seen, 10 of them have been about space or other planets. Or 25%

#

If this trend continues, we should see somewhere between 4 and 6 additional FFF's about space or other planets in the remaining 13 - 22 FFFs

sullen forge
weary widget
honest summit
#

I too, need to have hope

vivid turret
honest summit
#

FFF 413: we've decided to just have the two new planets so this guy is actually wrong every time

wanton igloo
#

FFF 413: expansion will release next thursday, no more FFFs

cobalt blaze
#

thank you for your speculation

red crow
sullen forge
olive seal
#

I'm a Bwuliever Bwuhuo ❤️

sand saddle
sand saddle
#

.>

red crow
sand saddle
#

I left Berlin on a train, and got off in a new city that had a river in the middle and every one was speaking german still. Did I even go anywhere?

red crow
#

When they serve a schnitzel with sauce it's germany 😆

sand saddle
#

or Sydney apparently...

red crow
#

Oh no... bad habits are spreading 😆

red crow
sand saddle
#

I wandered by a kebab stand here. They're charging like $18-20 for them.

#

HARD PASS

#

like, if you pay $6 for a kebab in berlin it better be the best fucking kebab ever made

#

spoiler: the ones in sydney are not the best kebabs ever made

red crow
sand saddle
weary widget
#

maybe a touristey area, lots of places do that

red crow
#

Wow expensive for fast food

serene sage
#

prediction: this week will be about train latency

cobalt blaze
#

whats train latency?

weary widget
#

exactly, thats for you to find out

honest summit
#

Train route planner tool now calculates the amount of time (without traffic) to get from one station to the next, factoring in breaking speed and fuel

timid crescent
#

I'm wondering what train latency is meant to refer to

#

The time it takes for a train to reach a train stop? For a train to react to a new stop opening?

weary widget
#

belt latency is another FFF I hope they cover

barren oasis
#

Today's FFF will be about a QoL improvement where they add a built-in calculator for ratios
Selecting a group of assemblers will show you how much they can produce and whether you are supplying enough materials to them