#Input-Balanced vs Output-Balanced

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

distant cipher
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How can I better think about this balancer? this is a 3->1 balancer, and I would like to be able to tell for myself whether we would classify this as I.B. or O.B.. Often we might like to deplete our resource patch as evenly as possible, so that we can preserve as high a rate of output for as long as possible, and so it makes sense to try to draw from n belts as evenly as we can. We can think about each lane as labeled {A,B,C} as often seen in explanations of balancers. from the right, we see lanes B and C are balanced onto a single lane, BC. From the left , lane A is harder to understand for me. I would try to articulate my understanding, but I don't understand well enough to say. If someone could help me understand lane A's behavior, and maybe also eluciate how to better think about balancers in general, and in particular I.B. vs O.B. I would be grateful.

edit: I should add that the screenshot is an attempt at observing the behavior of the balancer, the left box has 19 items, where the two boxes on the right have 27 and 28. So it would seem maybe this is not input balanced. but maybe we would say it is, and its just not 100% perfect.

image.png
rugged niche
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Why do you need a balancer there is the better question
Balancers are very often overused especially for how useful they actually are

distant cipher
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That is like a test balancer this is what I am genuinely interested in balancing

image.png
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I want to deplete the coal as evenly as possible

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i also just want to understand better

rugged niche
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So the thing about that. It's better to take from the paths with more ore first. For more longevity rather than all equally

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+faq balancer

glad quartzBOT
rugged niche
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This has some info

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But honest it's easier to just think about ways that don't involve stupidly complex balancers

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Even usage only matters with unloading wagons

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Somewhat with loading as well but it's less impactful

distant cipher
rugged niche
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If you have a train with 4 wagons
You don't want it sitting there while the first is empty

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So making the 4 wagons unload evenly means they all empty at the same time

distant cipher
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I see, I wasn't 100% clear on the phrasing. Yeah that wouldnt be super ideal. How come you argue it is better to prioritize longevity over taking from each ore patch equally?

rugged niche
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You want it to produce less and less as it goes on?

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Or would you rather have it produce longer but a more sharp falloff?

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People have made designs that "balance" ore patches so the center is used with priority so the ore patch lasts longer before slowing down

distant cipher
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This is honestly kind of an interesting problem, I definitely wasn't thinking about it quite right. The fringe ore patches would have less minerals generally, and if you did balance things such that you took from all ore patches evenly you would lower your output rate faster than you might otherwise, which is funny cuz thats exactly what I am trying to not do lol

Thats basically what you are trying to say up here I suppose #1231255326964322414 message

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I am now less sure about what I should do here

rugged niche
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Yep

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I would just do a simple method where I instead just feed the sides together first then use the center
That way 50% is center 25% from each side
Or alternatively not stress about it and build the rest of my base around multiple ore patches

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That way when one dies 2 more can take it's place

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I
Accidentally hailed hydra

distant cipher
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lol

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i guess the easiest answer definitely might be simply mine more ore yeah i am just being a nerd

rugged niche
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Hey wanna see a cursed thing people do?

distant cipher
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sure

rugged niche
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This requires moving to a new patch when one miner dies

distant cipher
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yeah one day I might do that I have fooled around with megabasing but Ive been unsuccessful thus far I always put too much pressure on myself and it takes away enjoyment

rugged niche
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Using beacons would be better (more ups efficient)

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But this design specific was for a nobelt prize run
Bad pun

distant cipher
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lol

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thank you for answering my questions I really appreciate it

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I will try to use my noggin as time marches on

rugged niche
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Sometimes it takes a new perspective

distant cipher
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yeah definitely

rugged niche
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Just try to avoid balancers. I only use them myself for train unloading
Train loading I use a form of balancer called a madzuri (way easier to build and way smoother although slightly slower)
Otherwise I use 'stairs' or 'waterfalls'

distant cipher
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its not clear maybe from the image but I did what we said

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I figure i can probably google those words on r/factorio or in here and learn what those are

rugged niche
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Btw that isn't exactly a lane balancer
It's okay enough though imop

distant cipher
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it is my implementation of what we described but maybe i misunderstand

rugged niche
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What I use for my resource

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When not coming out of the mine

distant cipher
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you know i have like 600 hrs in factorio and I feel like I barely understand the game lol, like ive launched rockets and like "finished it" or whatever, ive played krastorio a healthy amount, but there is like a lot of ideas you can really dig very deep into