High Science Multiplier

[mossy saddle]

make more science!

If pc doesn't blow up

[pseudo echo]

writing IT exam while 1kx runs in the background and watching meme compilations on YouTube. i have achieved peak productivity

[pseudo echo]

oh it will

im loosing FPS keeping my UPS up

[mossy saddle]

Time to upgrade

[pseudo echo]

i need money

[dusty nymph]

but what?

[steep spindle]

What were you having trouble with?

[dusty nymph]

i'd just like to know the starting settings everyone's using.

[vagrant anchor]

I think peaceful mode, probably maxed resources

Since it's your first run peaceful would be a lot more relaxed, but also it's SA and the enemies are quite a big part of the game

[steep spindle]

I did 600% all resources and enemies at 600% starter with peaceful, then no expansion/evolution/pollution so they are always small biters

[dusty nymph]

600% enemy scale?

scary. but maybe less scary if they're all small biters.

[steep spindle]

No 600% starter area 100% scale

[dusty nymph]

but you said "600% all resources and enemies".

[steep spindle]

And enemies at 600% starter area is what I mentioned. 600% enemies scales is a death wish

I wanted them on but not a nuisance

[modern citrus]

Decided I’d give tech cost x1k a go … but disabled enemies. Not sure if that affects other planets; but on Nauvis all I get are spawners that sit there and do nothing. Disabled pollution, evolution, etc. 600% resource size/richness, but reduced frequency

[steep spindle]

My buddy had that to and Wondered cause he clicked no enemies

[steep spindle]

Good luck!

[modern citrus]

One of the FFF’s mentioned that you would still have spawners, for reasons, when playing a no enemies game. Not going to divulge those reasons as I think you were one who was trying to go as blindly as possible

[steep spindle]

I am one of em 😄. Just got the chem science research last night

Trying to make trains easier right now because I'm starting up the train base

[modern citrus]

I’m going to be feeding this all with trains, eventually, but for now, its all belts. I’ve got one 1800 SPM red+green setup with my mall … I dont want to keep waiting for techs so I’m in the process of building a 3600 SPM red+green facility that will be expanded for the other flasks as well

[steep spindle]

I currently have a 3600 build of down

Waiting to figure out till trains are up an running

[modern citrus]

I’m going to need sooner rather than later, if only to clear these empty nests out of my way

[steep spindle]

I just don't know how much steel I could reliably produce , because that 200K military science upgrade for grenades is looking really nice

[modern citrus]

Not sure if I’m gonna want to use grenades to clear em out, or just make some turrets and load em with ammo. Took too long for me to kill one with just the SMG (only military related tech I’ve gotten so far)

[modern citrus]

Ok, I lied, I also have turrets. Decided to take 2k yellow ammo and 10 turrets to a nest. Decent size nest, without damage upgrades those turrets went through 26% of the ammo to clear em all. Didnt take too long either

Took longer to walk over to the nest than it did to clear it out. I need to research the car

[steep spindle]

So that's always been. My concern is how much ammo do you take? But I guess it's better to take too much ammo than not enough

[modern citrus]

Except from a pollution standpoint, yes. But if pollution is off ……

In a regular game, with enemies, evolution, pollution, etc. on, I bring a stack or so of turrets, a stack or so of repair packs (which I usually have on me anyway), and 2-3k ammo when I go on bug hunts. This game, not so much

Gotta get a car … gotta get landfill in major production

[mossy saddle]

I'm getting overwhelmed by biters

they destroyed my car and turrets

[steep spindle]

And now people wonder why I went with peaceful mode

I honestly could have probably done non-peaceful mode because the biters were just small biters

[mossy saddle]

car has alot less health xd

[steep spindle]

Did they Nerf it by a lot?

[mossy saddle]

it easily got destroyed bi lvl 1 biters xd

[plucky panther]

if you hover over No Enemies it actually tells you about it
it's there because otherwise there would be no way to get biter eggs or pentapod eggs

[pseudo echo]

I’ve queued up the planet researches for overnight

Time I will be setting up the first colony on vulcanus, but I’ll researching the others becuase those techs are FAT

[mossy saddle]

how fat are we talkin

[modern citrus]

Big boned?

[long mauve]

1 million science, per planet.

[mossy saddle]

thats fine only couple hrs

[long mauve]

I guess you already have an insane amount of science production

[modern citrus]

How hard is it to set up massive amounts of space science? Say, 1800 SPM?

[long mauve]

it shouldnt be bad at all to scale space science at all. Just more and more, or wider space platforms

[mossy saddle]

it's not really an issue setting it up imo

[modern citrus]

Ok

[mossy saddle]

are you also doing 1K?

[modern citrus]

Yea

Got two 900 SPM (ideally) lab grids set up, getting 3-6 set up now. The first two will be decomissioned when I get past red+green, in favor of supplying the mall. Numbers 3-6 will be upgraded for grey, blue, white, etc

[mossy saddle]

Might wanna go for more then 1.8k

Even at 3.6 it takes a while

[placid epoch]

really easy

hardest part will be crafting the platform blocks

😄

[mossy saddle]

what does it cost?

[placid epoch]

steel and copper wire

[mossy saddle]

ooh that's pretty cheap

I thought it would be more painfull to make xd

[placid epoch]

20 steel per block

i mean at your scale thats nothing i guess

[mossy saddle]

it's decent my main steel smelter has roughly 450 furnaces making steel

[placid epoch]

yh wont be problem then

you can just make a platform blueprint and copy paste 10 of them or whatever

[vagrant anchor]

I find upgrading 1.8 to 3.6 to be a nicely paced route overall

But yes ull want more later on

I think going for prod and util science on nauvis first then doing the space stuff might be an easier / potentially faster path also

Especially with enemies on, since you get artillery

Not sure where beacons unlock though

[modern citrus]

3.6 R+G atm. Trying to landfill in and clear a space for 3.6 milsci

[vagrant anchor]

Are you playing with or without early bots? With or without biters?

[mossy saddle]

purple science

I'm going for beacons first before going to space

[pseudo echo]

im busy prepping a spaceship for the planets

[steep spindle]

I'm braining a red chip build again

Fixing it later tho

[pseudo echo]

readying the space platform for Fulgora

im here

im on fulgora

[modern citrus]

Without early bots. Without biters

[vagrant anchor]

Why mil before blue sci then?

[vagrant anchor]

That ups

[vagrant anchor]

Yea I'll get prod util first then

[mossy saddle]

xD he'll soon see pictures

[vagrant anchor]

Actly what does space offer like reasonably soon

[mossy saddle]

not much

[vagrant anchor]

Vulcanus is probably the best route right?

For the smelting stuff

[mossy saddle]

you'll have to go to a planet for good stuff

[vagrant anchor]

Yea

[mossy saddle]

vulcanus is pretty good as a start just take loads of solar panels w you

its a 400% boost I thought?

[vagrant anchor]

I mean everything is gonna be solar anyways

Can't spare the ups for nuclear

[mossy saddle]

you're already struggling with ups too? xD

[vagrant anchor]

Tho maybe if I run into ups issues later I'll actually make the compiled factories mod idea

[vagrant anchor]

No, and probably won't for a decent while

Maybe biters though

[mossy saddle]

biters can sometimes destroy ups si

[vagrant anchor]

I don't think I'll have significant issues until both prod and util are done and by that time I can start optimising

[mossy saddle]

from what I just googled other sciences will be alot more pain to create then normals

[vagrant anchor]

Yeah...

The plan is to recursive bp clear them oht

[mossy saddle]

bot army!

[vagrant anchor]

Once you don't have biters attacking there's not much of a ups cost

[mossy saddle]

biters can still destroy ups if you have alot scouted with radar x-xµ

[vagrant anchor]

Supplies cost so little compared to science that they are completely consumables lol

[vagrant anchor]

Ofc won't load them in with radars

[mossy saddle]

I might've done that in sek2

was total chaos

[vagrant anchor]

[modern citrus]

Two reasons. One, more efficient/effective clearing of inactive spawners. Two, that’s just the way I play normally anyway

[vagrant anchor]

My current plan is (once I have time / get bored of other projects)
1.8k green
1.8k blue
Bots
900/1.8k military
Secure base
Upgrade to 3.6k, trains
Secure starting area
Prod, artillery, setup auto expansion
Util, beacons, rebuild base

[vagrant anchor]

Oh spawners still exist with biters disabled? Interesting

[mossy saddle]

I'm nearly at rebuild base phase

[vagrant anchor]

Wow that's fast / I haven't been playing factorio much

[mossy saddle]

me neither I've been driving alot recently xd

[vagrant anchor]

But u don't have biters right?

[mossy saddle]

I have biters

[vagrant anchor]

Ooh

[mossy saddle]

they destroyed my car and turrets

[vagrant anchor]

How many hours so far?

[mossy saddle]

uuu

I think around 60?

[vagrant anchor]

I'm effmodding and skipping turrets, jumping straight to flamers

Ig it's not as slow as I expected it to be

[mossy saddle]

I'm a slow builder I use very hard builds to make compared to others xd

but with bots it don't matter anymore

[vagrant anchor]

I think I can potentially even get bots by 30h actly

[mossy saddle]

it's roughly 400k science

[vagrant anchor]

I have 21h left and I can get 1.8k green science setup in 1 more hour

That's a tiny amount

[mossy saddle]

I feel like I'm playing the game wrong

I'm so slow compared to all lol

[vagrant anchor]

Is it 400k total up to bots?

[mossy saddle]

400k starting from blue science

[vagrant anchor]

Nahh it's just that you aren't rushing it

My timing is me kinda rushing it

[vagrant anchor]

Oh that's tiny amount

I can probably get blue setup by 20h mark

[mossy saddle]

you can meanwhile get advanced oil too

[vagrant anchor]

Maybe less actly... Depends

If I don't get red belts and car, I think I can get blue by 20h

Effmods are just one extra research on the way to blue anyways

[mossy saddle]

you won't need it with 1.8k spm

[vagrant anchor]

Yea and I kinda can't upgrade yet bcos biters will knock

[mossy saddle]

modules are also pretty cheap

[vagrant anchor]

Everything is cheap relative to tech here

[mossy saddle]

only 150k for all 3 the other one is 500k lol

[vagrant anchor]

I gotta quickly lower my pollution to avoid getting murdered by biters lol

[vagrant anchor]

Quality?

[mossy saddle]

yep thats the big boi

[vagrant anchor]

Is there a site with the tech tree

I want to see the science costs I need if I skimp by

Beeline blue sci but getting eff mods as early as possible

[mossy saddle]

can only find old versions

[mossy saddle]

|| https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1g6oaxk/space_age_technology_tree/ ||

[vagrant anchor]

Thanks lol but the costs aren't there

I'll look at the wiki

[mossy saddle]

good luck :p

don't search how the other techs are made

cus pricey

[vagrant anchor]

Engines 100k, asm2 40k, fluid 50k, pumpjacks 100k, plastic 200k, red chips 200k, eff mods 50k, sulfur 100k, blue sci 75k

Oops blue is only 175k after effmods lol

[mossy saddle]

[vagrant anchor]

740k to effmods, then another 175k to blue sci

7 hours of continuous research to effmods

[mossy saddle]

without any interuptions!

[vagrant anchor]

And 3.7 hours to blue sci

So blue by 25h might be reasonable

[mossy saddle]

then another 400k for bots don't forget

[vagrant anchor]

I'll build effmods and blue sci during the 6 hours where oil stuff is researching so there shldnt be downtime

Yup so bots by 30h possible

[vagrant anchor]

Oh oops this is 1.6 hrs

Blue by 20h is possible actly

Bots by 25h

Speedy

[mossy saddle]

and don't forget logistics 2

[vagrant anchor]

Not a requirement

[mossy saddle]

and steel furnaces if you don't have those

[vagrant anchor]

Not a requirement either

[mossy saddle]

but if you'll build your base xd

[vagrant anchor]

Those after blue sci

Hmm steel furnaces maybe worth

Logistics 2 is hmm

[mossy saddle]

steel deff worth mainly because smelting collums alot smaller

[modern citrus]

I’m up to 3600 R+G and just have to set up an additional 1800 of those two. Then will do 3600 milsci and figure out how I’m going to do 3600 blue. Then I’ll get all that researched, get bots and trains up, figure out space stuff

[vagrant anchor]

Steel furnaces shorten my furnace stacks by half

But also I think I can handbuild everything needed in time even with just stone furnaces

[modern citrus]

I went for red+steel … otherwise I’d be at 1800 spm now

[vagrant anchor]

Bcos I can't double production before effmods either way, I don't think it's worth

Safely, at least

I think the more space efficient stuff would be post bots / maybe even post military sci and first securing my base

Since with bots I can build stuff much easier anyways it doesn't really matter

[vagrant anchor]

If you want to keep sane and also keep ups good, don't use trains excessively

Belts are very safe for ups

Trains have some ups foot guns

Especially please don't do a city block / a design with a lot of intersecting train traffic

[modern citrus]

I want bots; I want solar; I want trains. Not necessarily in that order. Though I want bots before the other two; otherwise swapping from belting material to the smelters to training it will be very annoying

[vagrant anchor]

You definitely want bots before the other 2

Give your entire base bot and radar coverage

x1k bases are too large to work with in person

And you could build new smelt stacks also

Dont have to modify the old ones

[modern citrus]

I’m not doing this w/o mods. VisionRadar is one of my absolute favorite mods. It’s got a modest 50 chunk range atm

[vagrant anchor]

50 chunks is wow

Is there a mod that changes roboports to be chunk alignable? If not I'll mod it myself

For 2.0

[modern citrus]

Uh… they changed the chunk generation method with 2.0… it’s a lot faster now than it was in 1.1, and I’m curious how long it would take for the max range of 1000 chunks. It used to take hours for 500 chunk radius. 50 is not much at all

I’ve actually got two of those radars set up; one at my mall area and another out at the edge of that one’s range, where I am making the science base

[vagrant anchor]

I'm saying that 50 chunks is a lot of range for a radar lol

Is there something similar to SE's satellite view for SA?

[modern citrus]

As for chunk aligning ports, that I don’t know. Honestly don’t care that much about it, either they are sparse as it is (another fave mod being Concreep) or they are clustered tightly enough that a longer logistics range isn’t important

I have no idea about SE as I dislike AAI Industry

Got a 213 mil stone patch right where I want to put more smelting columns; that one is going to take a while to clear even with my appetite for landfill and a bunch of miners and assembly machines making the stuff

[vagrant anchor]

You can build over it

[pseudo echo]

taking a screenshot butchers it, i stablize around 50 when im not looking at something and 40 when i am

Just peaked at 57

[mossy saddle]

XD you can't look at what you're building?

Or you mean just mapview

[pseudo echo]

rendering shit takes a fair bit of CPU

and for some fucking reason, when i am facing the void in map view, i can get 60 UPS not at closest zoom but a bit further

also for some reason a decon planner with fulgora environmentals is not allowed to be carried on a player rocket

[placid epoch]

yh but steam is literally better

[mossy saddle]

Oooh even with the boost?

[mossy saddle]

das how I feel

[placid epoch]

yes u get steam 500°C for free

almost

[mossy saddle]

?!

Geysers or

[placid epoch]

in chem plant from SF and calcite and smthing mby id rember from the top of my head

[mossy saddle]

Easy power wouldn't have thought that would be possible

[placid epoch]

well ure on geo active planet heat is everywhere

[mossy saddle]

Hehe can't wait to travel too

[placid epoch]

how far are u from doing that

[mossy saddle]

I'm now going for purple science

But I haven't played in a while again xD

I'm near it tho

[steep spindle]

It's 550k with construction bots no?

[mossy saddle]

I thought 400k blues

With personal

[steep spindle]

Oh maybe to personal bots

I counted it to world map bots

[mossy saddle]

Hmmm you might have that one extra research

[steep spindle]

??

[mossy saddle]

Aren't there 2 researches with bots or was I drunk when I looked at it XD

[steep spindle]

Trip to helhiem for you!!! Your old name xD

[vagrant anchor]

Isn't it 350k blue sci to bots? +150k red/green for batteries

Construction bots, no personal

[mossy saddle]

how do you still remember

I was forced to use it by a friend xD

[steep spindle]

It was also Trip to the bar 🙂

GG brain 💪

[mossy saddle]

that one is alot better

[pseudo echo]

\

[long mauve]

can we revoke your space age access

[steep spindle]

Any tips for setting up blue science at this scale?

[long mauve]

@steep spindle what ive noticed you do is make 1 giant big block of science. Instead, id say make small blocks of science so that you can always build a new block when you want more

[steep spindle]

jvicks and Ichaleynbin were looking at a couple others

This is what I came up with after they showed that DI build, but the 360 SPM is just

It's like moving from the giant smelter array to the onsite smelt and training the plate, lots of new to learn

[mossy saddle]

Di build?

[steep spindle]

The right photo?

[vagrant anchor]

welp, took 1 hour longer than expected but here we go

had to fix many building issues efficiency modules next!

[mossy saddle]

Oooh direct insertion I just woke up sorry XD

Won't it eat more power

[pseudo echo]

yooohohohoho
wow

the patches have near zero richness

[mossy saddle]

you died?

you need your factorio taken away from you for a week mission xD

[pseudo echo]

no

(im being serious) i've never had better sleep than in the last few weeks

[umbral wedge]

wow, congratulations

indulging in Factorio and taking care of yourself? I am impressed

[pseudo echo]

i go to like 1 am, do a bunch of stretches through the last few hours occasionaly, then go to sleep and wake up at 6:30

that 5 hours of good sleep is way better than any amount of not to good sleep

[mossy saddle]

then 19h of factorio?

[placid epoch]

7k 😄 (on steam alteast)

[mossy saddle]

10 full days of factorio nearly

I hope you go outside in those 10 days

[placid epoch]

no

only time i go outside is when i go to uni

outside boring

[mossy saddle]

grabbing drinks or visiting friends?

[placid epoch]

they do be on discord :p

[steep spindle]

[mossy saddle]

100 of those and you have 2 reds xd

wait wrong

3O of those

with modules

[steep spindle]

this for 1k

I'm ok with that for now

[mossy saddle]

so a lil more then 3x those?

are the belts also enough to feed it?

[steep spindle]

yeah

by a county mile

[pseudo echo]

busy setting up automated foundries, dont have time for the drills though

[mossy saddle]

pc cant handle?

[steep spindle]

they mad at me finally

[mossy saddle]

took em long enough!

[steep spindle]

it begins

[long mauve]

i assume your going to use quality only on the mall, or whats your plan @steep spindle

[steep spindle]

I think current plan is mall items maybe a few other things

but I'm building my blue science shortly

[modern citrus]

Not sure if Quality is worth putting into science makers or not. But I would certainly recommend putting it into non-boiler-based energy production, and into any assembly machine maker in your mall. And, of course, module makers

[long mauve]

oh wow, that blue science is the size of the rest of the base lol

I think quality is so much better when you need much more consistent production of everything

[long mauve]

train input is interesting before bots though..

I guess its fine if you dont mind handbuilding a bit more but id try to go for patches on the ground because im lazy

[steep spindle]

I want bots, but I also want a build. That science print is 1k/m

[modern citrus]

900 SPM blue science using red belts and ASM2 is 240 machines I think, just on science alone, not counting the things making the ingredients

[steep spindle]

272 machines 1,070

[modern citrus]

Was gonna guess a little less than 270, maybe 267ish? For 1000 SPM

[steep spindle]

that sounds about right

[steep spindle]

lets gooo

O.o

[spark idol]

Put quality on the quality modules definitely

[modern citrus]

Quality all modules. Rare Speed 1 has Speed + 32%, but Energy Consumption is still only 50% and Quality -1%. Rare Quality 1 has Speed -5%, but Quality +1.6% … so unlike the Normal tier modules, you can combine them when Uncommon or higher, without losing all Quality bonuses.

Can see that stuff just checking the Factoriopedia in game

Though you have to draw your own inferences from the raw data

[pseudo echo]

i did it

[vagrant anchor]

14.5 hours per day

Mission you need your factorio privileges revoked

Are you just factorio eating and sleeping

[pseudo echo]

yes

only reason it isnt higher is school and exams

[mossy saddle]

Since you've gotten it up and running it's time for me to play again

[pseudo echo]

on gleba :)

anyway im out

arrives on gleba
mines a rock
leaves

[placid epoch]

xd

[spark idol]

What are you getting the heating tower for

[mossy saddle]

xD why only those thingies and not more hehe

[pseudo echo]

i need a shitton of power on vulcanus

i was originally only after the turbine

but im using the heating tower to remove a coal patch that is annoying the shit out of me (on vulc)

and im gonna use them to improve power on nauvis (UPS)

[spark idol]

So the heat tower is more efficient than the boiler?

[pseudo echo]

im checking

[spark idol]

It must be the same since fuel and energy are equivalent unless the machine has fuel efficiency

But if you use quality machines you’ll have extra efficiency with 3 steps as opposed to 2

[pseudo echo]

we be balling now

[pseudo echo]

I’m sustaining 50 ups rn

Bout to plummet since I’m getting back from AFK

[steep spindle]

today's goal setting up blues

[marble stream]

R u gonna do construction tanks lol?

[steep spindle]

you can do that now

aonly a mere 350k

[marble stream]

Yep you can remote control tanks and trains

[marble stream]

And tanks have grid

[steep spindle]

LF Rare Quality Modules

this is basically a T3 Assmembler w/o the power cost or module slots

[marble stream]

@steep spindle are you going to jump on every planet to unlock unlockables?

[steep spindle]

planning to go to Vulcanus first and see what happens

[pseudo echo]

im busy setting up prod science for beacons, belts, and elevated rails

[steep spindle]

how did you deal with Sulfur/Plastic early?

[marble stream]

Your ratios seem off

[steep spindle]

thats before this

[marble stream]

I mean why you need two times more sulfur then plastic

Would you like to try my DI build with sulfur/plastic belt?

[steep spindle]

its Item/M is the same?

I got an Idea from ichaleynbin and modified it

[marble stream]

Yeah but you need two plastic for blue sci

[marble stream]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1199154275352326284/1295684936413478912/blueprint.png?ex=673081a1&is=672f3021&hm=05b6ebe9e3cfa3c9cc8514efb6ac99bb18fb78c5d56ca08a95f00be31bb009b0&

Here take this and rethink it again

[steep spindle]

Homie, I got a print

[marble stream]

Yeah, go make a new one 🤡

[steep spindle]

DI is near there with it

34 machines long

[steep spindle]

oil about to be pissin me off

[marble stream]

Why so weird

Just compress it

[marble stream]

Also why no flipping

[steep spindle]

noticed that after I did that

[steep spindle]

its Vertical flipped?

[marble stream]

Why don't you pair them?

[hasty panther]

they are

[marble stream]

They all have outs on top
You could alternate

[hasty panther]

bottom is non flipped top is flipped

oh I see what you mean

is this what you mean?

[steep spindle]

I see the Alternation now

[hasty panther]

vulcanus is going to be reletively easy for x1k

how do you spoiler an image?

[steep spindle]

when you post it there is an eyeball

[hasty panther]

ah

||this is 100 spm||

vulcanus stuff^

[steep spindle]

making me wanna click that LOL

[hasty panther]

lol

its a picture with one machine type and some belts (but the machine is making the vulcanus science

[mossy saddle]

You might wanna use some modules

[mossy saddle]

How much spm is dis

Oil is funsies without bots!

[steep spindle]

in and out

[steep spindle]

lul

[pseudo echo]

(cliff explosives)

[vagrant anchor]

Mission please dont die from factorio

[steep spindle]

bed time, up tomorrow

[pseudo echo]

today i'll get prod science up and work on quality machines for the final base

[pseudo echo]

Only got the former sorted

And only perhaps

I have no idea if it works and can only find out tmr

[pseudo echo]

so i forgot to close the fucking valve that i was using to make sure a belt was properaly drained

internal screaming

[steep spindle]

85hrs about to get chem online to labs

[pseudo echo]

:)

[pseudo echo]

beacons

[pseudo echo]

it's cooking

[mossy saddle]

nice job

I'm proud of you both!

I got distracted I haven't played yet 👀

[steep spindle]

[pseudo echo]

busy setting up shit on fulgora using my new toys

[steep spindle]

How many hours into the game are you at?

[pseudo echo]

just about to cross 200

[steep spindle]

I have 85 and just got running

[pseudo echo]

oops

[steep spindle]

Rare tank!!

[mossy saddle]

thats alot of tanks

why that many o-o

[pseudo echo]

the circuit to make sure i only had one rare tank... wasnt connected to the output inserter

250 hours!!!!

[mossy saddle]

Rip

[vagrant anchor]

Please mission I don't want to see u in the news

[spark idol]

This gives you 7 hours each day of not playing Factorio

[modern citrus]

Some people just have that much time … frankly, it makes me jealous!

[pseudo echo]

i expanded power production on vulcanus 16 hours of playtime ago. i didnt connect it

[pseudo echo]

my brain needs to bluescreen RQ

[steep spindle]

60/s belts ARE BASE NOW?!?!

[pseudo echo]

SA*

too tired to remember to spoiler it

[steep spindle]

That's ok

[steep spindle]

How do you have your labs setup before beacons

[pseudo echo]

i just have an ocean of them

[steep spindle]

5 wide?

[pseudo echo]

idk

2700 labs in total

30 long 10 wide cells, 9 cells

[pseudo echo]

turbo belts automated, logging off for the night

also got done

no quality sadly

[steep spindle]

[modern citrus]

200 labs there? Got more somewhere I hope

[steep spindle]

I have about 2k crafted I'm placing right now

[modern citrus]

My plans for 3600 spm military and blue have been delayed; I have the oil its just a matter of finding a way to get it out of the boilers making electricity for me. So, I set up some 4 AM2’s each (Owithn quality modules) making solar panels and accumulators, trying to get solar to replace the boilers, not gonna try to get nuclear up and running on 900 spm blue science 😛

Actually threw quality 1 modules anywhere I could in my mall, that made sense. Dont care about faster blue inserters or green inserters; nor about more hp for the belts…

[steep spindle]

kinda funny I was told dont Quality the science... but that small ass space is pumping 600/m

lmao

[pseudo echo]

playing factorio in the background while writing my end of year physics exam

i have achieved peak productivity

[modern citrus]

Someone on the OF’s did some math … putting Quality into your science makers actually gets you more science than putting Productivity modules in (though they did not factor in speed beacons for those productivity modules). But both actually reduce the overall output compared to no modules at all

[steep spindle]

Wait why would quality science be worse? What is the 1-5 rank actually do

I thought it was for "instead of 1 pack it's now 2" or w/e

[umbral wedge]

it sounds like they're counting science output per crafting machine, not science output per input

[steep spindle]

I have barely 500 labs and it's cranking 1.1k/m out on 30s research

[umbral wedge]

like how prod mods slow the total output rate

[steep spindle]

About to add prod modules to it because that's doesn't affect the quality bonus

[modern citrus]

Quality modules slow the machine. At what is it, 10% for uncommon and 1% for rare (equivalent to 2 and 3 pack’s respectively) they provide more pack for the input than productivity, but the machine speed reduction does hurt the output compared to no modules at all

[umbral wedge]

machine speed reduction can be compensated for with more machines

[steep spindle]

But if the lab itself is rare it counters it? No

[modern citrus]

The lab itself being rare increases its speed I thought?

[steep spindle]

Yeah

So that's why I was confused. Who did the math because my buddy barely has any labs and it's cranking out science

With the higher quality stuff and no prod module

[modern citrus]

Labs have a base speed of 1. That means they take 60/1=60 seconds for a 60 second tech cycle. They take 30 sec for a 30 sec tech cycle. And so on. Improved research speed tech dramatically increases lab speeds; but also doing techs that take less than 60 seconds also increase the rate at which one lab contributes to the tech completion

[steep spindle]

He's also trying to farm rank rare labs with T1 quality modules but

[modern citrus]

A 30 sec tech, for example, can have one lab providing 2 spm to the tech

My 400 lab squares have labs left over when fed 900 spm because of lab speed, for 30 sec and faster techs. Another level or two of lab speed tech will see leftover labs on 45 second techs. That’s all common labs; made them before getting quality

Quality packs, on the other hand, last longer. An uncommon pack would last 60 seconds in a 30 second tech, and each 30 sec increment counts as one pack. And that’s adjusted for lab speed as well

[steep spindle]

This is why I was confused, because people keep saying it's 🗑️. That right there with them lasting a longer time is better no?

[modern citrus]

The uncommon pack would last two cycles of the tech, not just the one that a common pack does, in other words. This has the effect of letting the belt carry more science. Not sure how it affects labs chaining pence though

[modern citrus]

I think those people have not done the math. OR those people have, but found issues with lab chains that make it worse overall. I don’t know. On the surface, quality seems to me to be better than productivity in science makers; but then I’m also trying to deal with fully compresssed (half) belts of science. Productivity would merely reduce the amount of input needed, not change the belt rate limited output

Quality effectively increases the output of a fully compressed (half) belt of science,

[steep spindle]

I think there is more to the puzzle than who did the math realize, ye. The higher the quality the more throughput because the less you have to continue throwing into the same lab

Not trying to flame those that did the math. I just feel like something was left out

[pseudo echo]

it is 🗑️ for actual SPM

the occasional pack that is worth extra does NOT make up for the lack of prod modules

with legendary quality 3 modules, you get 24,8% x2, 2,48% x3 and so on, versus a flat double SPM with legendary productivity 3 modules

and the 2 of them scale roughly the same across tiers and qualities

[pseudo echo]

first benchmark: productivity in the science assembler, prod in foundry, 44% towards mining prod 9
2nd benchmark: quality foundries, prod science: 48% on mining prod 8

quality in both: 90% to mining prod 6

control: 18% to mining prod 6

yeah quality science sucks ASS

[umbral wedge]

getting around throughput limits is a valid use of quality science, but a better strategy is not having throughput limits

why do you only have half a belt per science

do you not know the first rule of Factorio

[modern citrus]

I’m belting science to the labs. Red belts, each half belt is 900 flasks/minute. I’m setting up 4 such setups. Eventually, ultimately, they are going to each be 1350 spm setups instead of 900 spm setups. The only thing I’m not doing is buffering by train

And possibly 1800 spm setups, if I upgrade those red belts to green

And not just blue

[steep spindle]

Even like a rare lab with prod modules in it and a quality science pack?

[modern citrus]

Prod modules (and maybe speed beacons, though lab speed tech does a tremendous job speeding labs up) are the way to go with labs

[dusty nymph]

what do you x1000 people do about power?

surely upscaling to such a degree needs a vast amount, and i can imagine nuclear and bots are quite far away.

[steep spindle]

I'm at about 500mw, but just hit chem science

Have a 720mw buffer atm

[dusty nymph]

but like, from what?

also, what does a buffer measured in... watts... entail?

[steep spindle]

Steam boiler power, and steam tanks

500mw base, can produce 720mw atm

[dusty nymph]

see, this is why i could never do one of these silly challenge runs without peaceful mode.

500MW of steam is like 8333 pollution per minute.

[steep spindle]

I had a gw of steam on the last world

[dusty nymph]

right now i'm doing 2x recipe costs (not science multiplier), and i've decided to opt for peaceful mode.

because i just could not handle having to upscale this much and face biters when things are like 4x more expensive at minimum.

[steep spindle]

How are you recipe costing increase? With a mod

[dusty nymph]

yes.

i wrote one quickly.

it's been a long, long earlygame.

[modern citrus]

720 MW of power capacity right now at my science factory, all from solid fuel. In process of switching to solar so I can take that crude oil and do sciencey things with it instead of electricity things with it

I am playing without biters at all

[vagrant anchor]

You can get away with 3 yellow belts of coal worth of boiler power until efficiency modules

Though 6 belts of coal would be a lot more comfortable

Then eff mod everything, blue sci, bots, military, wall up, solar

Bots are like the most important thing to rush to go faster

Pre bot is slow-ish

And painful

[pseudo echo]

i reached like 3 Gigawatts of boiler power

before switching to heating tower power that is immensely more efficient

[pseudo echo]

oh yeah that is something
good luck

[pseudo echo]

debating whether to just use common buildings instead of making rare stuff

the difference is MASSIVE (this also includes beacons)

[pseudo echo]

im busy tweaking my quality loop and it is SOOOO painful watching some rare ingredients being sent to the void while my bots are taking 2 fucking centuries to build a single splitter

[elder rover]

So how have you guys integrated quality into your 1000x runs? I imagine this is a system we would def want to take advantage of.

[steep spindle]

Does that only work with some new item? The loop thing?

I don't know much about anything after the silo

[pseudo echo]

i've been using quality mainly in my asteriod collectors, but i am currently building up quality systems for a base upgrade

[pseudo echo]

im basically putting items in a loop to upgrade them, but i decided to add a catch for items that sneaked into the belt that goes towards what is effectively an incinerator

[modern citrus]

I’m not doing much with quality - yet. I am fishing for a rare (already got an uncommon) mark 1 power armor. I have quality modules in my mall for end products. I won’t really do much else until I get some means of disposing stuff too low

Until then it’s too much hassle trying to filter out the uncommon or rare chips, sulfur, etc

I do plan on using rare solar stuff in space, once I get to space

Not sure if quality lasers and turrets are worthwhile in space? Not making any on nauvis atm (no biters)

[steep spindle]

How can you loop it if you don't have anything that kills it? Like if I have a base item and I want a green or blue, I can't make the green a blue with out creating the other items for it right?

Is that what your meant by looping

I just started blue science stuff

[pseudo echo]

basically:
quality modded machine crafts shit, i syphon out the rare products and recycle the others, before those recycle products get put into their own machines

kinda like kovarex

[steep spindle]

You need a recycler.... I didn't know that machine existed

[pseudo echo]

fulgora

[steep spindle]

Wonder how I could yeet it before then. I just now started lube

I have a mall that I have been just "using" the quality if I get it

Trying to get bots right now

[modern citrus]

It is very possible to put quality into your production machines (say, green circuits, reds, blues, anything else you are putting into the bus) and siphon the quality ones off before they get to the bus, using splitters to pull them off and then stuffing them into boxes for later use. That can be useful for making things directly, though all the non-liquid ingredient quality must match

Want to guarantee a Rare Power Armor mk1? Put quality modules into your electric engine makers, blue chip makers, and steel making electric furnaces, pull the rare ingredients out, and when you have enough, just craft the thing.

Considering how many blues etc are needed for science, that might be a valid tactic if done early enough, though I don’t know that I want to put quality modules into furnaces

Or miners

[steep spindle]

That's my concern, the syphoning part, but maybe it will be ok

[modern citrus]

Siphoning is easy. Filter splitter. You can set the quality level, including use of < and > … do you can filter off the production line anything > Common and send it aside, for stuffing into a box

[pseudo echo]

stonks

[pseudo echo]

i am quite surprised at how little i need to reach my SPM goals (this is vulcanus science)

[hasty panther]

vulc science is crazy fast to make

[steep spindle]

I have bots now

[pseudo echo]

beautiful coal liquifaction build i cooked

[pseudo echo]

well done

[steep spindle]

98hrs

[steep spindle]

Trying to get them built and then make blue science faster

Because I want to rush space

I'm gonna get bots and smooth out the blue science further, then prolly go to and let that cook, then turn around and get rolling while it's cooking.

This was the plan

[steep spindle]

I've not used coal liquifact before is it better?

[pseudo echo]

||Vulcanus doesnt have oil, only coal||

[modern citrus]

It is and it isnt. In vanilla it is an alternative means of getting crude oil products, with the emphasis on heavy rather than petroleum. I understand its almost necessary in space age though. Nauvis? Good if you have a lot of coal patches but not a lot of oil to pump out of the ground, or if you want to turn a coal patch into plastic or sulfur with only the introduction of water (and the starting heavy oil)

[steep spindle]

don't click it 😭 thanks for the tag

[umbral wedge]

also if you want burner fuel, coal -> oil -> solid fuel gives more than just burning the coal directly

[modern citrus]

Can turn coal into rocket fuel, too, just add water (for the cracking and the steam)

[modern citrus]

The new fluid mechanics make a 250 refinery, making a full belt of rocket fuel, a full belt of sulfur, and 6 belts of plastic actually somewhat reasonable, provided one can find the crude oil to supply the monster

Just gotta figure out where to fit in the light->pg cracking, for if/when the rocket fuel line backs up

[elder rover]

my favorite part about using blueprints from pre space age, isnt getting them to work, thats actually easy, its remembering what each input is lol, since i pipe raw ore and coal into all of my science modules

"is this supposed to be copper ore or iron ore?"

"lemme follow the belts"

[modern citrus]

Just tack a constant combinator on, showing what the input is. Dont actually have to build the combinator, mind you; it is just there as a BP post it note

[pseudo echo]

my vulcanus base is slowly nearing completion

busy building the rocket silos

i cant wait to tear down this ocean of machines

[umbral wedge]

I don't believe you

there are only 336 hours across two weeks. this leaves 21 hours for not playing Factorio, or 1.5 hours a day.

(ofc this is without considering if you're leaving Factorio open while you go do other things, e.g. sleep, which I suspect is the case.)

[pseudo echo]

yes

still funny to think about

[umbral wedge]

I hope you go for a full 336

[vagrant anchor]

Are you leaving factorio running 24/7

[modern citrus]

Finally got power sorted out … getting the other 2700 grey+blue going now …

[pseudo echo]

Pretty much, but it is not running during my travels.

[steep spindle]

I had to call it but I cleared another area out to try and double my chem science

[pseudo echo]

So I left it overnight to AFK… but had the tech tree open

[steep spindle]

Oops

[pseudo echo]

im kinda concerned at how much shit i'll have to deconstruct when i clean up my old base

[modern citrus]

By the time you get there, hopefully you will have the recycler thing and can just aim at Legendary replacements!

[pseudo echo]

legendary stuff is locked behind aquilo

and epic behind gleba

but i have a lot of rare things, and beacons

you need VERY little to get high SPM even at this stage

my entire nauvis base is gonna be replaced by a fraction of the machine count that also do more

[steep spindle]

I'm thinking about skipping space and hitting either purple or yellow science first. Would that be smart?

[dusty nymph]

but no achievement. very sad.

[steep spindle]

Right, but I can just go get the achievement when I'm doing the speedrun achievement that I'm going to try directly after this base

[pseudo echo]

space science is very easy to set up
researh purple and yellow then research space science while you build the 2, then set up space science production

[steep spindle]

The achievement just requires you to not research anything with purple or yellow, correct? So theoretically you could just stockpile it

[pseudo echo]

no

[pseudo echo]

unlocking the science spoils the achievement

[steep spindle]

Damn

Was going to say I'm currently pushing toward rocket now doubling blue science because it wasn't enough

When I double blue science I'll have 3,600 all science

[steep spindle]

Buck Fiters 😂

[placid epoch]

i cant wait for u to get to another planet

[steep spindle]

Another reason I've heavily contemplated saying screw purple and yellow science and just gunning for volcanas

[placid epoch]

well it gives you achievement

and i think u should

[steep spindle]

Yeah tonight I'm going to get a few more bots. Double blue science and gun for the silo. I think we hold off on purple and yellow and I'll just go get it for the speedrun achievement as well because I 100% plan on doing a 40-hour speed run directly after this base

[placid epoch]

100% speedrun or u will do normal 40h speeeedrun

[steep spindle]

The 40-hour Space Age achievement speedrun just that one. But if I could grab a couple extra achievements that I don't get with this base I'll be doing so

[placid epoch]

well "after this base"

so in like a 2-3 months

[steep spindle]

Yeah my thought process was get this base to everything except the infinite sciences. Go do the speedrun to see if I can iron any of my builds out faster and then turn around and go back and do the infinite science

Because in base game I was doing the 8-hour speedrun in 5 hours

So with that logic I'd probably have about 5 hours remaining of mess up time

I want to attempt to grab the silo in this base in 150 hours. We'll see how that goes

[placid epoch]

how many are u at rn

[steep spindle]

I believe last I looked I was close to 115 or was it 105 somewhere in there

If I can get blue science cranking to 3600 per minute then I'll have all sciences at 3600 and The silo will come pretty damn quick

But tonight's plan is to get some robo ports. Grab a crap ton of construction bots and let the robots build that blue science base while I go figure something else out

Like maybe stabilizing some of the other builds or looking into crafting some of the researches for space

Because I've contemplating building a hub for the rockets. I just don't know how many rockets I want to fire yet

[placid epoch]

you could start at 5x5

[spark idol]

The rocket hub makes sense because you’ll need to make good use of the bot throughput

Probably placed at a corner of the base with supply from a mall train

The landing pad should be in the opposite corner

[steep spindle]

I was thinking around the mall by the spaceship that I left cuz I didn't mine it

Easier way to inject stuff into the rockets and then you have the landing pad on the other side of the base able to disperse

[spark idol]

Just if you haven’t looked into it yet, inserter fed rockets are a serious PITA

[steep spindle]

I definitely was looking at bots

[spark idol]

Unless you’re using one rocket silo per item which is a viable option at this scale tbh

[steep spindle]

Something I've noticed with my friend's base is he has a lot of high rocket throughput to pump a bunch of stuff up into space but not a lot of stuff able to take out of the landing pad so it kind of blew up all over the landing pad

[spark idol]

Yeah the landing pad hub is gonna be a challenge

The landing pad is a provider chest so robots will inevitably make up a larger part of the output than inserters

[steep spindle]

So could you put the landing pad by say a train depot?

[spark idol]

You could but I think space for roboports surrounding it is gonna be top priority

Just to keep the bots up to speed

[steep spindle]

Yeah and bots speed research is absolutely abysmal

[spark idol]

Then again a logi bot can do multiple jobs on one charge so maybe you focus on keeping the requester chests close by

[steep spindle]

Having a landing pad next to the science might be smart though because I've overheard a few things in the Space Age channel that if you're not able to research it quick enough, it has problems

[pseudo echo]

quality inserters automated

[steep spindle]

Mission, are you still running on boiler power or did you switch to solar?

[pseudo echo]

quality assembler 3 and oil proccessing machines

[pseudo echo]

boiler power mk2

basically

[steep spindle]

Yeah I was going to start automating boilers at uncommon and rare but I didn't know how complicated that would get without better tech

[pseudo echo]

get gleba, land on it, mine a certain rock, and leave

and that unlocks boiler power mk2

[steep spindle]

Makes sense

I have a gigawatt in boiler power right now but it's taking about 10 belts of coal

I might want to just convert that to solid fuel cuz I have solid fuel in excess right now

Solid fuel boiler 💪

[spark idol]

It’s true there’s a couple things that you should be careful to buffer as little as possible

[spark idol]

Careful with that cause if you have the enemies it means the next time you visit they’ll have taken over the planet

[steep spindle]

I have enemies, but they checks notes should be on peaceful

[spark idol]

Do they expand

And if you have time evolution you might be getting behemoths by the time you come back

[steep spindle]

Assuming the evolution and expansion are the same as main planet. I turned expansion and evolution off

[spark idol]

Oh then you’ll be fine

[pseudo echo]

i plan on yoinking artillery for this

[spark idol]

You got big stone patches

Hey careful though cause artillery can’t even kill stompers

And they’ll come for you

[pseudo echo]

just to clear the nests

i can then rain HELL on them using my gun turrets and also using lasers

[spark idol]

Yeah lasers are good

[steep spindle]

ending here tonight

[pseudo echo]

expandable item quantity display that i am using for my module build

[vagrant anchor]

U shld do a number screen

360p oled panel in factorio

[pseudo echo]

not quite

i've got 1000x to do im not gonna spend time making that and the required GPU to go with it

[pseudo echo]

finally

the time has come

you were a good base

[steep spindle]

Upgrading for faster stuff?

[pseudo echo]

yes

[steep spindle]

Nice. I'm just getting to the silo

[pseudo echo]

planetary shit is gonna allow me to compress this to 1/10 the size while also increasing my SPM a tad (3k -> 4,2k)

[steep spindle]

Base as of last night

Trying to get 3600 right now, so I hit space build a platform go get military while it's researching thrusters

Because I'm gonna go hit Vulcanus

I just need better input on the trains to blue and it will be cranking

[mossy saddle]

how many hours?

annddd do you have bots

[steep spindle]

Bots yes, and 120

[mossy saddle]

might be time

for me to join in again

[pseudo echo]

How far along are you?

[mossy saddle]

Still the same as last time xD

60hrs with bots

[vagrant anchor]

I still haven't played haven't gotten bored enough of real life these few weeks

Still at just having green setup at 11h

[steep spindle]

I'm approaching silo:)

[vagrant anchor]

Damn, gj

And wow you build around ores

[steep spindle]

Trying to, I want to base to last

[mossy saddle]

Let it burn!

[placid epoch]

no way it will happen

[steep spindle]

😭

[placid epoch]

thats just fake news

[steep spindle]

I'm going to stabilize blues and work on either getting rocket supplies or military science

[pseudo echo]

the journey to make the new base, has begun

[mossy saddle]

how many bots do you have mission

[pseudo echo]

a few

[steep spindle]

85K.... 🧐☠️

[placid epoch]

well its 1kx

so he should 1kx his robot count too no?

[steep spindle]

I heard you liked robots, so I added more robots to your robots, then added more robots on top of that

I know I don't update in here often cuz I'm more in the Space Age channel and my thread. But I am now two sciences away from silo

[mossy saddle]

And hrs hehe

[pseudo echo]

317

[mossy saddle]

Damn o-o

I started deconstructing xD

[pseudo echo]

my new base is soon to be operational

[pseudo echo]

just gotta cook a lab design

[mossy saddle]

better show us! :p

[mossy saddle]

the decon swarm has been assembled

[vagrant anchor]

That number of roboports is not gonna cut it

[mossy saddle]

I've got some recharge station inbetween some parts

its chocking up my power though

30m in mostly deleted my starter

[vagrant anchor]

You should have cut the belts and let it run dry first

Then it won't be nearly as bad

Most of the decon is probably items

[mossy saddle]

that part has been dead for ages xD would've been to big of a hastle to start it up and connect

[vagrant anchor]

Oh

[mossy saddle]

nothing a couple thousand of bots can't handle hehe

[pseudo echo]

busy finalizing the utility science build design

[pseudo echo]

it's been hooked up

and now some Fun Stuff™ is on the horizon

[steep spindle]

My base as of yesterday

Having to convert to e furnaces to keep stuff online now

[mossy saddle]

Awhh why are they better for power grid due to less miners?

[steep spindle]

Well, because dragging coal everywhere

[mossy saddle]

Ooh I've got lucky that nexto my smelter I had coal

Fully redesigning my base rn xD

[steep spindle]

I can just build more power lol

[mossy saddle]

Never enough!

I've destroyed like 75% of base

Now

[pseudo echo]

"...why are there gaps in science production?"

[mossy saddle]

What powah do you use

[pseudo echo]

heating tower

aka boiler mk2

too lazy to set up nuclear

[mossy saddle]

xD

I can't wait to go to space

[pseudo echo]

first time i've ever had a deadlock of this scale

the junctions themselves are deadlock proof i just dont have enough space between them,

[mossy saddle]

those are some long trains xD

[plucky panther]

in regards to prod vs quality
prod wins 99% of the time.

assuming quality3 modules and prod2 modules (which is a big advantage for qual3s) that is an equivalent 1.11x multiplier for quality (0.9x1 + 0.09x2 + 0.01x3)
where productivity is a 1.116x (2.4% each iirc) multiplier

and it stays better with qualitied modules

prod2s would only be worse with a 2.2% prod per module effect or less

[modern citrus]

Is that regarding science production? I’d say if you are capped on pack transport, quality bumps up the rate in a way productivity cannot. But if you are not at, or near enough to effectively be at, your transport capacity, then productivity is likely better. Especially as that allows you to use speed beacons, while quality modules barely, if at all, let you use them

[plucky panther]

yes, science prod

I'd argue if you have issues with belt transportation
make more belts and (more labs) {you need more labs anyways with qualitied science}

far more worth your buck than qualitying the science, basically always

the one thing that would be interesting to check is quality productivity mixing. It's the best for legendary item production, so it might be able to boost science prod to its max as well. I doubt it'll be worth it once you hit prod3s because the gap is just too big, but you never know

[steep spindle]

Geeez

[mossy saddle]

nearly done

[pseudo echo]

[mossy saddle]

nice job show me what you put in it hehe

[pseudo echo]

tbf i really dont need it but here is it so far

actually, i do: fulgora

fulgora has... uh... issues... when it comes to the bot network

i guess we doing 4 294 967 296 Rare energy shields now

[mossy saddle]

why do you need 4.2G? of those xD

[pseudo echo]

dunno, Uint underflow happened somewhere

also, TMR is gleba time

[steep spindle]

Holy crap

[modern citrus]

Finally getting the last 900 SPM module up and running. Finally hitting 3600 SPM red+green+grey+blue

@plucky panther at this point in my SA game, with 4 subfactories each making 900 SPM red+green, or grey+blue, and each going to a 400 lab square… and with only tier 1 modules available, red belts, assembly machine 2’s (for only 2 mod slots, not 4) … I could only achieve 3.2% quality OR 12% productivity, and thats farming for Rare modules of whichever. I am either widening (by one tile) each subfactory for an additional output belt, using splitters every so often to blend the two colors onto the two belts while maintaining lanes, OR use quality modules in the science producers to “increase” the rate of science production. Note that either option slows the machine down 10% (-5 speed for either t1 module) but only the productivity module option increases energy demands of the machines. Point being, you gotta consider where someone is at tech-wise :).

[plucky panther]

12% prod...?

with t1 mods?

[modern citrus]

FWIW, I have not done the math on it, but I expect that you wont need the Speed Beacons to counter the speed loss from Productivity Modules once the Productivity bonus exceeds the speed loss. IE - -5% speed, +4 Productivity is a loss. 5% speed, 6% productivity, is a minor but net gain

[modern citrus]

Rare t1 productivity module is 6% productivity. Two in a blue assembler gets you 12% total

[plucky panther]

huh. didn't know it was that much. I expected like 4-4.5 per

[modern citrus]

Check the factoriopedia

[plucky panther]

yeah I'm lazy it's just what I roughly have an idea on, nothing concrete

if you have a hard-set situation where you already intentionally cap out belts, sure. quality is better than productivity because it's more per belt. but it's overall far better to build assuming productivity will increase output than it is to build X belts and slap quality mods

overall - definitely cannot recommend quality in science assemblers. use productivity unless productivity is outright useless (like specific number of full belts)

[modern citrus]

Productivity can either increase output … OR decrease required input. It does the former if there is room for all the extra output. It does the latter if the output rate was already maxed out (and you can counter the speed lossP)

[plucky panther]

yeah - and I'm far more into decreasing required input in nearly every situation. It makes any build live longer, or allows for more to be done with the same amount of input

though you guys seem to be building with output in mind rather than with input in mind, so that's not as important in that case. And in that specific case where output is blocked (because maxed belts either way) then yeah, quality is technically better

but it's also such a niche situation, let's be honest

[modern citrus]

That statement about decreasing required input contradicts your previous “better to build assuming productivity will increase output” though

[plucky panther]

because usually I build things cascading for X output (so, say 60spm)
so prod does for me the equivalent to decreasing input

and in that case - if you plan on having high output - I'd wager it's better to build with productivity in mind, meaning you effectively decrease the input for the same output, or build your desired output and leave room for extra productivity (what I effectively do. It either all gets consumed, which yay extra output, or it backs up and effectively becomes less input)

that's fair though. I prefer using less input because I generally have X amount of input belts and just build everything off it, resulting in productivity's "increased output" for me turning into slower machines for roughly the same output, so less input use

sorry for the confusion

[modern citrus]

Yea, I’m basically doing the same thing - 10 belts of stone brick can turn into 4 half belts of military science. My rate upgrades will come from upgrading to blue belts and yellow assemblers. Not sure if i’m going to go to green belts. Red belts are already pushing my 1-8 trains (I should have designed around 4-8 like I normally do)

Only difference is, I’m not taking 60 SPM; I’m taking the maximum I can for that half belt, which was 450 for yellow (red+green) and now 900 (red+green+blue+grey)

[plucky panther]

yeah I said 60spm as an example cuz it's what I run for in most of my games. of course you're using a higher value

I think we can conclude that

• productivity is overall just better for science
• rare cases can exist where quality is better, under specific circumstances

[modern citrus]

Tech cost x1k means I kind of have to. 30 spm, 60 spm, decent numbers to go through a normal tech cost game. But for a higher tech cost game, those can be pathetically low rates 🙂

[plucky panther]

oh yeah, I do understand the motivation

[modern citrus]

I will say though, that for the most part 400 labs per input belt set seems to work rather well. There are a few techs where its not enough. But usually it leaves some labs sitting there doing nothing

1600 labs doing a 30 sec tech are only about half utilized

Research speed of 2.4 so each counts as 2.4 labs, basically … or 960 labs. With a 30 sec tech, and only 900packs/min coming in, only need 450 labs at lab speed 1. With lab speed 2.4, need far fewer

[elder rover]

Is this the weakest I can possibly make biters? Without disabling them or putting them in peaceful mode.

Going to start a fresh 1kx run but i still want biters to come at me bro, just...slower, weaker, and later lol.

And iirc the biters themselves dont give any resource I need for progression right?

Its been ahwile since I played vanilla.

[steep spindle]

I am silo bound

Adding power while I get that the finish because I'm on GW boilers

[elder rover]

the first big tech is always the most painful in these runs

handfeeding stacks of copper and icon plates

my starting copper sucks too

[plucky panther]

now, they do (SA exclusive). Biter eggs and pentapod eggs. However, enabling No Enemies still puts spawners on the map that you can use for those resources. It just disables any and all enemy unit spawning

[mossy saddle]

starting your lil run? ^^

[elder rover]

its gonna be big i guess, after watching what is required on some of the other planets

like on fulgora that one resource has a 1% drop rate from scrap

3600spm electric science is going to be tough

and also no no space to build

ive been watching nilous play

volcanus looks fun

but im mostly excited to see gleba, i think thats my favorite environment

[steep spindle]

@mossy saddle

[mossy saddle]

ooo

2.3k

what happend!

[steep spindle]

I now have power I need to expand

[mossy saddle]

I'm fully rebuilding my base

[steep spindle]

Haven't decided another boiler or just start laying solar

[mossy saddle]

boiler might be best

takes up less space

[steep spindle]

True and it's 360mw

So

Solid fuel time I suppose

[mossy saddle]

only 360?

yeah I'm going full solid fuel right now

[steep spindle]

1 - 200 - 400 is 360

I have 3 of those running at full power in base

[mossy saddle]

oh right my setup is alot bigger then those numbers xD

[steep spindle]

I was gonna do 2 - 400 - 800 build

[mossy saddle]

would be good for power 👀

[steep spindle]

Hmmm.... Solid fuel explosion

[mossy saddle]

xD is handy though!

I just found out my rail bp isn't even on the same grid as my bot bp

so I'm screwed

[steep spindle]

Lmao..... Mine isn't even on a grid

That stuff being free placed

[mossy saddle]

xD I'm trying to fix the ugly power pole issue I had before

[steep spindle]

I wonder if that could even handle solid fuel

[modern citrus]

Solid fuel is wonderful … until you realize you need all that crude for blue science. The high tech cost of nuclear is why I went massive into solar for the moment. I get to space, I get kovarex running, then I’ll probably go nuclear

[steep spindle]

I'm going to attempt something in a test world to see if it is even doable

[mossy saddle]

it's doable mainly because you have loads of places to tap oil from

[modern citrus]

It takes a fair amount of oil, especially if still on basic processing, to make a belt of solid fuel. But that belt can feed a bunch of boilers ot stone/steel furnaces, making it quite useful to set up anyway

[steep spindle]

I have AO

[mossy saddle]

I went straight for AO too xD

had only 1.8k spm during that time but it was worth it

[steep spindle]

it COOOKED

[pseudo echo]

I was busy designing the gleba base but came down with bowel problems. Still made decent progress on it.

[modern citrus]

400 boilers/800 steam engines? That still takes a ton of crude to feed… one reason I went solar. Another was to try to farm up some Quality panels/accumulators

[elder rover]

cruck your knuckles, and wait.

[modern citrus]

4.6, 4.7 hours at 3600 SPM …

[elder rover]

yfw you didnt label what ore goes into what belt

my previous 900spm green science build

[elder rover]

hand feeding 480 spm

[pseudo echo]

well done

enjoy 3600 SPM space science

[mossy saddle]

military asks so much powah o-o

[steep spindle]

😭

[hasty panther]

its not too hard

||worst part will be getting the chunks||

[pseudo echo]

[hasty panther]

honestly thought I was vauage enough but alright

[steep spindle]

Got chips now, just need to start sending shit

[steep spindle]

Prolly just due to this is still my first playthrough

And I got my first platform

[hasty panther]

fair

[pseudo echo]

have fun

[mossy saddle]

finally all bps made now I can pop them down with ease

[pseudo echo]

the gleba build has proven a pain in the fucking ass to do

[pseudo echo]

fuckkkkkk

the gleba build is finally done

(i think)

just need to test it

[pseudo echo]

i underestimated just how much fucking power the silo uses

[pseudo echo]

im feeling the effects of burnout. as it turns out, 600 hours in a month and a bit isnt great for the mental health

[spark idol]

I played so much in the first two weeks that I haven’t turned on my computer since then

[mossy saddle]

thats why I told you to rest you silly goose

[steep spindle]

I'm playing when I want my brain to turn on, it's often enough to feel engulfed, but not enough to be too much

[modern citrus]

3600 spm space science is proving interesting to design

[mossy saddle]

you're in space already?

[steep spindle]

I've got a 500/m build in testing phase

[modern citrus]

I am in space… toying with design ideas

[pseudo echo]

now that my school exams are over, i'll see if i can allocate energy to the run

[pseudo echo]

still need my programmer socks though

[pseudo echo]

i found some energy

now all im missing is my starter gleba build design (more gleba )

[modern citrus]

4 iron mines, 5 iron unload stations. Trains favoring blue science unload stations to milsci unload stations. Not normally a problem, but it is when trying to research things that use both. Trying to set the priority dynamically, based on the limit, will see if that smooths out science production. Prolly should make a couple more mines, too

[steep spindle]

I upgraded the fire power

[modern citrus]

I”ve got 8 silos … because I got impatient waiting for two to cycle. Wondering if I just need to bite the bullet and just make three more space science platforms though, each matching the current one. Be something of an annoyance to do though

[pseudo echo]

yeah

i had 12 silos in my original nauvis base that i used to build the space platforms i designed in editor and blueprinted.

[steep spindle]

I have this problem now

I need Iron but I dont want to switch to sorter 😢

[pseudo echo]

just find another patch and shoehorn it in there

[modern citrus]

Need more mines, looks like

Or just drop it in from above. I dont know about you but I’m overrun with iron on my platform

[steep spindle]

I would be too, my platform obliterated when I placed my new BP

shoulda just shot another boat up there

yeah I have the bots, Ima just yeet and replace

[modern citrus]

Do you have requestor chests etc. researched yet? You could use bots as your sorters - mine into passive providers and request the ores at the front of the smelting columns

[steep spindle]

that would murder this achievement 😦

[modern citrus]

Fair enough

[steep spindle]

hmmmm

[modern citrus]

You might want that one … if only for the fuel for the portable fission reactor, which I assume you are going to get once you get some other planet’s tech researched

[pseudo echo]

there is a bonus reason to get nuclear ||Vulcanus's primary power source is steam from acid neutrilization. this processes realeases 500C steam so benifits from increased efficiency from the turbines||

[steep spindle]

I did a thing

155hrs later

[pseudo echo]

i've been chilling im map view for so long i've forgot how to walk (basically)

[pseudo echo]

:3

[modern citrus]

Map view is nice

[steep spindle]

160hr base photo, currently fixing starter ore patch and I nuked my Space Science blueprint so rushing to get that fixed.....

[pseudo echo]

im just doing misc. tasks like cleaning biters

procrastinating as much as possible from gleba

[pseudo echo]

uh oh

[pseudo echo]

i am merely tasting elevated rail spaghetti with this base and i am not sure if i like it

[spark idol]

Just keep going it will get interesting

Once you’re spending resources on producing legendary circuits you’ll have to start improving these intersections and adding new through lanes

The spaghetti will get heavier and more intense

[pseudo echo]

i was thinking k2 + exponential research (i think that was the mod)

[spark idol]

What do you mean

[mossy saddle]

me new science build

alot better then before I think

[steep spindle]

What color science?

[modern citrus]

Ok, looks like I’m up to about 2700 Space SPM on one platform. Gonna be able to hit 3600 Space SPM sooner or later!

Might just take doubling the length of the feeder arms though, since I cannot expend the northward one any

[mossy saddle]

All sciences

I'm rebuilding everything

So that everything is aligned

It was triggering me to much

[steep spindle]

My current base

2GW of steam boiler power waiting on either me to fix my red science or to get space operational

[mossy saddle]

xD yeah I fully redisgned mine

[pseudo echo]

im busy doing some more procrastination base maintenance

building nauvis rocket production

[mossy saddle]

I'll need power pole view sir!

[mossy saddle]

👀 I can make you procrastinate

[steep spindle]

them shits be everywhere

[mossy saddle]

the pain! xD

[pseudo echo]

?

[mossy saddle]

fix your power poles

keeps u busy for a while

[pseudo echo]

that would require a complete redesign of the base which i am not doing

[mossy saddle]

nono

won't need it ws