High Science Multiplier

[steep spindle]

That sounds interesting, I'd love to see it when it's finished

[long mauve]

Yeah it’s gonna be exciting for sure

I’m thinking something huge like 16 wagon plate trains

[steep spindle]

Also, if you ever want tips to get out of diamond lemme know. I'm Champ 3 normally

[steep spindle]

[long mauve]

Sweet! I’ll let you know. I don’t think we can play together though that’s a big skill gap haha

[steep spindle]

Always can in casual

Bed time for me thou, got to see the inside of my eyelids

[long mauve]

For sure

Good night!

[inland kelp]

Ooooh 16 wagon trains. Yess 🤤

[vagrant anchor]

Wow, you are almost finishing already

Has been a long time

[inland kelp]

I just realized,

1000x probably also has 1000x white science rate...

[slim kelp]

yeah. no shiet ;)

forget about space sciences...

[inland kelp]

yepppppppp

this changes everything

ok just gnna finish and then gtfo

...............this is actually oddly demotivating

[slim kelp]

you could "gigabase" 5000 spm including rockets

but what's the point ?... just a game of numbers...

with no biters it's boring

[long mauve]

Im planning on doing a 10K spm megabase after im done

I might also enable biters

[inland kelp]

yh 10k is a fun goal. very doable

[inland kelp]

biters freak me out. too much pressure 😦

theyre very predictable ai. i just wnna build

[steep spindle]

Yes, yes it does 😂👀. In 2.0 I'm planning a lvl 30 infinite tech base x1k style

[long mauve]

your insane

[inland kelp]

what does that mean?
lvl 30?
...x1k style?

[long mauve]

it already will take years to get those to level 30

[inland kelp]

like, start with all tech on 1k

oh wait lvl 30 inf got it got it sry

[long mauve]

theres new research for productivity on recipes. level 30 is max

[inland kelp]

oooh

[slim kelp]

it's close to impossible to reach lvl 30 with normal x1...

[long mauve]

yeah..

[slim kelp]

ah, 2.0 stuff

[steep spindle]

I am hopeful with the quality changes that it will be a lot faster

[slim kelp]

right so already lvl 8 is 256k science on x1

forget about lvl 30, literally impossible

[steep spindle]

Think outside the box

[slim kelp]

... yeah /c command to set it to lvl 30 ;)

[steep spindle]

[slim kelp]

remember, 2^30 is about 1 billion, and that's with multiplier 1, the default multiplier is 1000 for these techs, so it's 1 trillion science to get to lvl 30 on infinite sciences

if x1000 science, that's 1 quadrillion

a number so big that human mind already cannot comprehend it. Even 1 billion is too much to understand for most people

(even more ridiculous that some people have billions of $ ...)

[steep spindle]

It's gonna be unmodded too for all the achievements

I'm fully aware it may take a long as time

[slim kelp]

unless they change the formulas in 2.0 so it doesn't double every lvl

no no, not long time, it takes longer than the universe

aka, impossible

[steep spindle]

I don't think it will

[slim kelp]

but, read the line above "change the formulas"

people have reached lvl 300 or more mining productivity because that particular one has another formula compared to the usual stuff

[steep spindle]

Yeah and the lvl 30 mining prod alone is 67M

I know it's gonna be a long haul base

[slim kelp]

you have to do a bit of math first before even attempting it

there are hard things, there are unreally hard things, and there are impossible things

if it falls into the latter, you're just wasting time

[steep spindle]

Everyone thinks different

[inland kelp]

the combinators fit so snugly in there:) almost like it wants me to design it like this

yes im redesigning my fluid trains bc they Suck at this scale without endgame tech 😭

[steep spindle]

No no no thinks

[mossy saddle]

20K!!

[steep spindle]

But for real, like I think that would be fun to do

[long mauve]

fun? yes. impossible? yes

itll take multiple IRL years of constant playing

[long mauve]

maybe, if my computer holds up

[mossy saddle]

time to upgrade computer!

[steep spindle]

True

Gonna be rocket League tonight anyway

I'm getting GC out the gate

[spark idol]

Rocket league has such a high skill curve

Once I saw people doing aerial stuff I gave up

[steep spindle]

You would hate to play with me then lol

Everyone thinks things are impossible so they don't try. You miss 100% of the things you don't do

[long mauve]

i responded in #other-games

[steep spindle]

Math against me or not, I'm attempting it 🙂

[long mauve]

go for it, I cant stop you

[steep spindle]

I got stopped in attempting the x1k once before, but I said you know what, how fun is it? Then tried it and loved the pacing

[long mauve]

1kx is a magnitude easier than the 2.0 challenge

[steep spindle]

2.0 challenge of all infinite tech to level 30?

Or just beating the game

[long mauve]

oh all infinite tech to level 30

[steep spindle]

Yeah, that's what I'm going after

Going to continue it after my Rocket League and achievements in Factorio are done

@mossy saddle Wanted to do that with me too

[inland kelp]

so how is lvl30 in 2.0 alrdy a challenge if 2.0 isnt out yet? 🤔

[long mauve]

just theoreretical

[inland kelp]

ah

its a logical deduction though, max tech being a goal

btw. weird question!
should i, like, avoid pinging you? as youre a moderator. Or do you have like different pings set up to know whether its bs or mod stuff?

[long mauve]

you can ping me its fine. I dont have different pings set up but itll only take me a second to see if its serious or not

[inland kelp]

aight thats cool

[mossy saddle]

yessirrr

[long mauve]

this is fine

[candid shadow]

So, I'm not doing 1000x multiplier, but I am doing 10x multiplier with stronger biters and some funky flavor mods

I've got:
Robot Army
More biter types
Longer and darker nights + biters attack more at night
Alien Biomes
10x science cost
Ruins

Things are... interesting

[steep spindle]

Oh nooooo

[steep spindle]

Neat base

[candid shadow]

I'm almost at the end of red science

almost

[long mauve]

That seems like a game I would enjoy, lots of biters and chaos. is the 10x science cost difficult with that many bugs?

[candid shadow]

it's.... manageable

we'll see lol

[long mauve]

for now, wait till they evolve

[candid shadow]

well there's already armored biters, frost ones, explosive ones, and poison ones

[inland kelp]

👀 x10 with boosted bugs

Interesting

[quiet sandal]

x100 with normal bugs is possible

seems like it can be done

[inland kelp]

Sure it can

Would be, uh.... interesting though :p

Just the start would suck, without turrets for a good while while trying to piece ur factory together without splitters

We need youtubers doing multiplier runs with biters tbh. It'd be fun to watch

Any1 got Dosh's contact? :p

[mossy saddle]

I don't recommend doing that but you can do it if you want xD

[slim kelp]

if evo is slowed down accordingly, anything is doable, even x1000

with default values, nah, I don't see how, facing huge waves of large biters and spitters with just basic turrets and basic ammo no upgrades. No chance

[steep spindle]

I can't wait to be launching rockets like a mad man

[inland kelp]

i really want to quit this playthrough ngl. but i wnna finish the chalenge

infinite sciences are gnna be impossible
and theres no reward or ribbon or w/e for completing x1000

but i do want to have completed it for the ego boost lmao

[steep spindle]

Saying you beat it is nice! Do it

[inland kelp]

true

[inland kelp]

ok, blue science has been running for the last 13 hours at roughly 2k'ish
I finished three sciences.

let's do something else. like fix my mall, lmao

this is crazy. i love it

we should have a x1000 deserved mark on discord tbh

[slim kelp]

talk to olivia :)

[steep spindle]

[inland kelp]

but thats scaryD:

letsdoittogether

[slim kelp]

scary?.... wtf.

I know we're nerds and we don't really know how to talk to women, but ... scary ?

[inland kelp]

bro, bothering head mods for roles. never seen olivia talk or w/e. chill tf out

[mossy saddle]

I've seen her talk a couple of times

she didn't try n kill someone

[real heart]

[real heart]

You’re probably on when I’m asleep 😛

I’m not sure what the role would look like or how moderators would determine someone has legitimately done something (and we need to consider other achievements and if this is opening a can of worms) but there is no harm in asking, worst we can say is no. I’ve given out much sillier roles in the past.

[inland kelp]

Lol, nice

Basically it'd just be an artificial way to make these kinds of challenge runs "matter". Useless ego boost Really, there should be a steam achievement for doing it vanilla.

Imagine the sheer amount of saves being sent in on discord for validating yep..... the x1000 run is very unique though!

I was honestly just complaining about the uselessness of a self-imposed challenge. My response was a joke lmao

This does kinda make me want to have a silly role though... like a pineapple:D

[modern citrus]

Not a pineapple. A millipede

[spark idol]

🪱

[steep spindle]

I have a 406hr save screenshot if this exists

[inland kelp]

Any1 could post a screenshot 👀

[steep spindle]

Could indeed

[inland kelp]

That vanilla 1000x?

[slim kelp]

modilla 1000x :P

[inland kelp]

:p

[steep spindle]

Still an x1k world lol

[inland kelp]

Love it!

[mossy saddle]

oh boy... the amount of screenshot I'll have if I ever finish this run...

screenshot of the 10 full rockets just sending iron ore into space xD

"first 1 million biter kills I'll see you back when I get 1b"

[elder rover]

Ruins can have issues iirc.

Like, crashing even if i recall.

I remember trying it a few tiems and always ended up having to remove it for some reason.

[steep spindle]

got it!

[slim kelp]

oh, you got minions too, nice !

now all that's left is making a lot more

CA3 is almost there, just needs a tiny more factory

[steep spindle]

Ca3 needs more copper and iron on the area I have, hopefully get that this morning

We were trucking away with achievements last night

And fixing purple science lol

[slim kelp]

you could just build green chips after finishing CA3... stop launching rockets and science, and just put chips in chests in 1000 different places

surround every assembler with steel chests, and let them slowly fill as you build more and more

[steep spindle]

The problem with the blues is not enough green, and green has not enough copper/, iron

[quiet sandal]

solar panels are so weak but at the same time way overpowered

60kw is basically nothing, but irl a 9 meter area gets around 12.4kw of sunlight

[eager jacinth]

but IRL a day is 24 hours instead of 7 minutes, so take the energy values with a grain of salt

[inland kelp]

solar bp go BRRRR

[slim kelp]

"Residential solar panels range from 13 to 22.8% efficiency, with most panels hovering around the 20% mark."

imagine if they would have 100% efficiency.... so roughly 5 times more

12.4 * 5 = .... ... ...

[steep spindle]

can't wait to wonder how this is getting accomplished in 2.0

about to make this base a train megabase

[steep spindle]

That would be 7.5M science

[quiet sandal]

no, 12.4kw is the total sunlight that falls on a 9 meter area

so a 9 meter area solar panel with 20% efficiency would make 2.48kw

[slim kelp]

Oh. Well then, nauvis sun is a lot brighter then ;)

[candid shadow]

Southern chokepoint secured

(for now)

[candid shadow]

First medium biter

[long mauve]

first medium biter is scary, do you think you will survive?

[candid shadow]

We shall see

I'm doing 10x but have other stuff going on

[long mauve]

do you have any modded weapons or is it just for now gun turrets?

yeah

[candid shadow]

I'm about to have battle droids

[long mauve]

those sound fun!

[candid shadow]

I'm struggling to find good chokepoints out east

[long mauve]

there arent any too close, best bet might just be to grab all that land and make the wall right after the copper / stone patches

[candid shadow]

Just got military 2 done >.>

[long mauve]

the factory is growing

[steep spindle]

the 1M

[long mauve]

300K or so more till launch

i need to still make the RCU and rofu however

[candid shadow]

the pitch blackness does get unsettling after a while

[candid shadow]

at last, bots that actually are useful

[steep spindle]

never played Space Exploration, guess we bout to start

[candid shadow]

I guess that's just normal #modded-chat at that point

[steep spindle]

True, if I cranked it to x1k tho

[mossy saddle]

good luck with the meteors 👀

[slim kelp]

lol good luck.

maybe you should play SE the standard way first, at x1, until you get the feel for it ...

[modern citrus]

Finally got purple science somewhat up and running… only one of the two installations, so only 900 per minute. Need to figure out (even if I’m nowhere near ready to feed it) the yellow side before I can duplicate it for the other 900 purple per minute

[long mauve]

Science Multiplier Runs

High Science Multiplier

[steep spindle]

Name change?

[modern citrus]

Cant exclude the tech cost x1 people can we?

[spark idol]

That’s higher than wave defense

[slim kelp]

tbh even the default "marathon" game is a different category than standard/default

yes not as long as 100x or 1000x, but not as short as default either....

pretty much anything starting from marathon all the way to x1000 could fit in this thread

[candid shadow]

Well, I’m doing 10x but also have biters very buffed

[eager jacinth]

0.1x research cost when

(I know the game doesn't let you go below 1x)

[quiet sandal]

I tried x1000 with biters

not possible lol

my x1000 run is currently on hold, I'll get back to it eventually

[long mauve]

T-42 until liftoff!

ugh I couldve been SO much faster. ive been making an extra 250 spm without enough labs!

[spark idol]

Trying to get a look at the map here

Are these 2-4 trains?

[long mauve]

1-4

turns out, my brick production was not up to par after making concrete so purple sciecne basically just stopped so now its back to about an hour

[spark idol]

Probably do my own BZ x1k

At some point

I think just natural gas and helium

Cause I like the way they work and how they interact

[long mauve]

of course

we have liftoff!

[marble stream]

Who dares to rename x1000 to HighScienceMultiplier
I can't find it in my list now

IMO this thread should be named x1000, as barely anyone plays less then that (mostly on big overhauls), and the origin point of this thread is vanilla x1000

[voting] Please rename this thread back to x1000 or whatever it was

[jovial oriole]

I an rn doing 100x default, so I like the change

[inland kelp]

I understand the sentiment, but I welcome this change.

It opens up the challenge to a larger crowd, and could introduce more variety

[mossy saddle]

yeah had to make them passive

[jovial oriole]

You sure? If my 100x in desert worked, why not 1000x in big forest world?

After all, it is just a race to flamethrowers

[mossy saddle]

1000x is a big step up from 100x 👀

instead of 360 science/min is decent for the start you'll need 3.6k to make a "fast" research

[jovial oriole]

I have rn 675 science a min and that is my starting setup

I am getting everything up to that

Then I'll upgrade the amount of science yellow belt crafters I have

Then I'll upgrade to assemblys 3

And I am all set

[slim kelp]

if evo is slowed down enough, x1k with biters can work, but if they evolve too fast, they'll just break through once getting to large biters (which is VERY quick on such a scale without reduction in evo)

[jovial oriole]

10x step up is a 10x step up

[mossy saddle]

what science are you at atm?

[jovial oriole]

I know

[jovial oriole]

You need to tactically kill nests on 1000x compared to 100x I bet

[mossy saddle]

my starting setup was 1.8k spm

[jovial oriole]

Still blue, because I need 70 belts of copper for my yellow full belt, but I can't for the life of me find anymore copper rn

I got like 8 iron patches 11 coal patches and 7 stone patches as well as 4 oil fields uncovered

But only one copper lol

I need like 5 more copper patches for stable prod

[quiet sandal]

Well if you buff the forests maybe, but consider that just for red and green science I had to cut down over 5,000 trees…

[jovial oriole]

Couldn't go faster due to pollution on desert world

[slim kelp]

turrets have low damage without upgrades and big spitters will destroy them with acid while turrets are busy shooting at the blue biters

[jovial oriole]

Well, just cut down a forest thousands of tiles away, easy fix xD

[slim kelp]

and with that much pollution, LOTS of them will come

[jovial oriole]

If you go pollution route of course

[mossy saddle]

I'm not sure how much a normal world differinciates between SEK2

[jovial oriole]

Reason you have to play fully tactical

[slim kelp]

you have no choice in x1000, there is no way to mitigate pollution before oil

[mossy saddle]

but it's already hard enough repairing the damages of the meteors and the solar beams

[jovial oriole]

You can't always produce at 100% rate

Sometimes you need to slow production and just deal with the expansions

Up 20 biters, small, medium and large

That isn't too bad if you do it right

[mossy saddle]

turrets are alot further then you might think 👀

[jovial oriole]

At the outer edges of your expansion chunk candidates you'll just need to lower a lot of them down to red chunks and have a few green, where you can surround it by gun turrets and hope if they'll expand towards your cloud, they'll run across the turrets

[jovial oriole]

Roughly 6 hours right?

I got mine after 2, due to constant biter annoyances by pollution, forcing me to slow prod down a lot

[mossy saddle]

I'm not sure how far turrets are in default world x1000

if it's 2hours for you you got to do it x10 so 20hours if you had the same setup xd

[quiet sandal]

I had to cut down a lot of forests to make room for my factory

[jovial oriole]

Same setup and map*

I'll make sure to have a good forest map for my 1000x

And I surely will deal with nests a lot earlier with a lot of fish and my pick!

[jovial oriole]

I'll built around the tress

I'll have to

[mossy saddle]

👀

[quiet sandal]

I still have all that wood stockpiled in chests, I’ll need to connect it to a line on my power plants

[steep spindle]

Nice!, congrats 🎉

[mossy saddle]

reminds me I'll start playing again ggs ^^

first will have to change the science trains tho

[jovial oriole]

What multi o.O?

[steep spindle]

🙂

[mossy saddle]

you'll keep me motivated right! 👅

[steep spindle]

Do it!!

[inland kelp]

Might flip a coin tonight to ditch the x1k run and instead make an OG megabase. I alrdy know enough to know I can easily finish it

[slim kelp]

1k

[jovial oriole]

If you give up, I'll take your spot

(After I finished 100x ofcourse)

[inland kelp]

Lmao

Its not giving up, its being bored :p

You can have the save, I don't care

[jovial oriole]

Nah, I'll go from start to finish myself

[languid stump]

Congrats!!!! 🎉

[long mauve]

The reason I changed it is because there are others who are doing a science multiplier and why would we not include them? It’s the same challenge, just on a different scale

[long mauve]

1000

[mossy saddle]

finally got it up and running again ^^

doubling my labs rn, maybe even trippling

[steep spindle]

GOGOGOG

[elder rover]

x1000 is the only option, what are you on about

[safe coral]

about to start a scaling cost game if anyone is interested, early tech is mostly the same but silo is about 2000x

[elder rover]

x1000 biters enabled is the only valid way to play

[safe coral]

server should be visible in server list, pw is scale2000

search for 2000x

[steep spindle]

[slender wind]

@safe coral Newest beta or newest stable?

[safe coral]

uh, 1.1.104

dunno

[slender wind]

Looks like I'm out of date 😄 I've been on 1.1.94 for months

1.1.104 is the current stable version

[safe coral]

its basically vanilla as well, just using a mod to achieve the scaling (omniscience) plus disco labs because why not

[slender wind]

Honestly Disco Science should be vanilla ;P

[mossy saddle]

I don't really recommend disco science with x1000 you'll notice very soon why 👀

[mossy saddle]

going to sleep now final numbers all roughly 3kspm stable got some things to fix though x-x

[long mauve]

it looks cool on our 2 labs :P

[mossy saddle]

oh only 2 labs? xD

[long mauve]

its progress

[mossy saddle]

lemme take a quick peek in the server 😛

[long mauve]

the early techs are cheap

go ahead!

[slim kelp]

I think I'll do x100 with biters on, and not just on, but 600% of them (sea of red). However, significantly slowed down evolution. Big factory, big murder

x1000 with biters, nah, too much grinding military techs

the real x1000 will have to wait until I design my city blocks

because with city blocks even 10k spm is probably doable on my computer

might even upgrade by the time that happens :D

a 7800X3D and DDR5 is not that expensive anymore tbh

and the good part is ... I'm not buying it for games, I use this computer a lot for work, and that type of work really benefits from faster CPU/memory (video editing)

[safe coral]

thats why I found a mod that lets me scale things based on how far in it is

mil2 is only 189 packs

[slim kelp]

that sounds nice, difficulty goes up, but slowly

[safe coral]

silo is 2000x cost at the end and infinites are normal cost because I only just figured out how the mod works

[slim kelp]

link mod ?

[safe coral]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/omnimatter_science

[slim kelp]

interesting. Bookmarked, will give it a try

[long mauve]

we have science!

[safe coral]

I tweaked the settings to be 1.25x for cumulative cost and 1.25x for constant in chain techs

[steep spindle]

Nice

[mossy saddle]

oooh SE now ggs?

[steep spindle]

Attempting it yeah

[long mauve]

🍝

[safe coral]

obligatory "most of that is because we cant just get stack inserter bonus"

the cost to get there is >100k

production was at 3/s

[slender wind]

@long mauve game's back up

[long mauve]

whats the name?

[slender wind]

Should still be the same

I think

[long mauve]

anyone else here can join if you want to by the way! I dont see it

[slender wind]

Uhhhh hold on

I may have broken something

Okay NOW it should be there

It's "1x -> 2000x Cost"

[long mauve]

there it is

[slender wind]

It's gonna make my YouTube all sloooowwww lol

Oh well.

[safe coral]

at some point id be able to set up a dedicated but thatd be in like a few weeks

[slender wind]

@safe coral @long mauve Jsyk - game's up; I don't have anything happening today so I'll have it up all day. Same password as before.

I'm not progressing with anything really, just gonna get a bunch of buildings made so y'all don't have to craft them when you get online. And maybe spend some time rigging up defensive walls

[mossy saddle]

but we like hand crafting!

[slender wind]

Handcrafting is fun

Also I forgot to say - this is a public server, insofar as that anyone is welcome. It's passworded to avoid total random people from being problems, but the password is "scale2000"

[mossy saddle]

finding people that do such things is once in a blue moon I think

[slim kelp]

so is there some high science mp game up ?

I might join after the other rocket launches or goes boom

[slender wind]

That's probably true... but old habits die hard

[slender wind]

Yes, but it's locally hosted not a true server. It's using a mod instead of the multiplier, so the tech cost scales differently. Early techs are cheaper, late techs are millions+

The name is "1x -> 2000x Cost" or something like that, I forget exactly what I listed

[slim kelp]

okay, I'll let you know after the launch

[slender wind]

👍

[mossy saddle]

The name sounds familiar

someone suggested it to me after I said I wanna try pyanodon x1000

[spark idol]

You don’t wanna try py x1k

Assemblers will not be spared

[mossy saddle]

that's why they suggested a mod like that one so it's better

[slender wind]

Part of me wants to try Angel's & Bob's with a 1000x multiplier on it. I doubt I'll ever do it, but yeah lol

[mossy saddle]

xD I did the starting part of it without multiplier and I was so dumb that I couldn't figure out how to get steel for an hour...

I found out tho luckely but AB sounds fun to have as x1K but the beginning part you'll have loads of stone

[slender wind]

That just means I can PAVE THE WORLD

[mossy saddle]

AB is I think easier in the sense of you don't need much to get some iron ore imo

and the plates etc..

the buildings are just a bit bigger

[slim kelp]

sooo, back to factorio then :)

is that game still up ?

anyone in it ? any vc ?

[slender wind]

@slim kelp yes the game's still up, it'll be up for most/all of today

I'm the only one on rn, not in voice but just sorta chillin'

[slim kelp]

okay, can I come take a look if it's something in my alley ?

[slender wind]

Sure

It's open to basically anyone

Other than the tech cost changing, it's a vanilla game

[slim kelp]

so few mods lol, no squeak through :P

[slender wind]

Correct

No YARM either, sadge

[slim kelp]

no indicator mods as well, no calculator mods... tough to see if stuff is working properly

also asks for a pass :)

[slender wind]

scale2000

& it's a test of how skilled we are at the game 😄

[marble stream]

Not 123?
Every server I've played on had password 123

[slender wind]

lol

[mossy saddle]

oh I suck at factorio

[slender wind]

😄

[slim kelp]

I don't think evo was slowed down...

on the other hand, there aren't THAT many biters around... yet

however hitting behemoths with barely having grenades and basic turrets with little to no upgrades might sting a big

I sincerely hope at least expansion is turned off for this game...

[safe coral]

huh, omnilib is required now, weird

[steep spindle]

No you don't!

[slim kelp]

well this was ... a bit different :P

I still thing we're all going to die painfully

but okay, it was a nice try !

evo 60% and haven't even started making ...

[long mauve]

what have you guys got done today?

I brought oil over yesterday its easy to make red circuits for atleast

[slim kelp]

ask ming for screenshot

? ha ! That's for noobs ;))

[long mauve]

thats right, we need :P

[slim kelp]

right now the only use for oil is cliff explosives

[long mauve]

Oh right I forgot wasnt the research 10K or something for prod1

[slim kelp]

indeed

the numbers go up exponentially like vanilla military space science

some million points just to get bots

it's ridiculous

[long mauve]

yeah its gonna be fun if we can survive until flamethrowers

those are only 6K red/green/mil afaik

[slim kelp]

20k

[long mauve]

oh

[slim kelp]

I think

but anyway, looking forward to seeing the entire factory get eaten by behemoths :)

[long mauve]

its gonna be fun 🙃

I think once we get flamers we can beat them back fairly easily

[slim kelp]

mmmmaybe

anyway there's a solar field which is fully powering the thing during the day

so at least coal isn't running out

some rail network is done

military science also crunching slowly but surely

some nests are dead with the help of defenders

but it's already hard to kill big worms

takes several seconds of 10 defenders firing into them non-stop to kill one

meanwhile... acid everywhere

a wall has started to the west

not sure if in a very inspiring position, but it's there

[long mauve]

I know that area, right past the oil? I think thats a good enough spot for the wall

you guys got defenders, nice. I think those wikll be helpful for a while until evolution is too crazy

[slim kelp]

yeah they should somewhat work until 80%

after that it's just too many blues and insufficient firepower

[slender wind]

@long mauve That basically covers everything; the walls themselves are up in the west/northwest, but they need guns & supply trains. Offsite iron is done, just waiting to be turned on (waiting on walls being finished)

Current target is rockets & flamethrowers, then basically whatever else we can get for Red/Green/Mil science

[long mauve]

supply trains, I can make sushi belts work

[slender wind]

Normally the defensive supply is robot-driven, but that's... well, it's over 900k just for the logistic robots themselves, and that doesn't give requesters

So we're looking at north of 2 million to unlock requester chests

[long mauve]

yeah requester chests are way too expensive to get..

[safe coral]

that was rocketry

which I still think is a good idea since it doesnt need blues and can be researched now

[steep spindle]

Wish I could play

Busy golfing

[slim kelp]

ah.

tbh considering how many resources are needed anyway for science, a bit more for half a belt of ammo running the entire length of the wall is not going to make much of a dent

it's dumb on x1 when you can just finish the game with what you spend on ammo... but here... not so dumb

[safe coral]

yeah im totally fine with the red ammo idea

we got bullet damage 3 to give it an extra boost vs big biters

[slim kelp]

definitely going to be needed, otherwise they just break through

I am more concerned about offense than defense, defense is rather easy

[safe coral]

rockets 🤷‍♂️

I think with current tech nests die in 3

super easy with the smart targeting it does

its funny because in 1x rockets also basically dont have a place

by the time youd need that kind of firepower you have laser turrets and power armour

[mossy saddle]

hows it going?

[safe coral]

pretty sure its currently not up

[mossy saddle]

oh i meant how far did you get today ^^

[safe coral]

I set up the iron to the left using nearby coal, its waiting to be plugged in

walls are built but not gunned hence mine is off

and train network is being built

[slim kelp]

also s....

[safe coral]

that too

[slim kelp]

these are becoming an issue already

tons of damage and die hard

[mossy saddle]

they're always annoying x-x

[slim kelp]

not when you have lazors on power armor mk2... but I guess that's completely out of the question in this game

[safe coral]

it is, for several reasons

the mk2 itself, laser modules, good batteries, especially fusion

I think fusion is like 2mil

even mk1 is 457k, PLDs are 727k, good batteries are 654k, and fusion is 1.3mil

mk2 is also 1.9mil

modular armour is potentially viable though at 15k with solar 19k and basic shields 25k

considering shields have their own energy buffer it would prevent some deaths

no exos though, those are 462k

if I was setting this up now what id do is make my own mod for this kind of scaling because id like to be able to separate out main and side techs (is or is not required for silo)

and have lower mults for side techs

as well as have simple mults but tiered by how many packs a tech needs (such as 1x for red only but 200x for needing 3 packs)

[slim kelp]

tbh this game would be totally playable if the normal increase would be used, not the exponential one

it's still a lot more expensive than vanilla (even marathon), but not to this ridiculous degree

[jovial oriole]

Definitely go for it

[safe coral]

yeah the problem with how this mod works is that a cheap tech behind a bunch of other techs is now expensive

[jovial oriole]

It helped me a lot as well early on

Until bots

[safe coral]

but in exchange normally expensive techs are cheaper

[jovial oriole]

Personal robots are so op on attack

[safe coral]

...do I tell him?

[jovial oriole]

I just seen your other message

[safe coral]

bots are >1mil

[jovial oriole]

You aren't playing normal x research cost

I thought so

[slim kelp]

tbh I don't think I'll be rejoining it

checked that tech tree pretty thoroughly and it's unfun.

maybe I'll enter to drop all the junk which I have on me, but that's about it

I'd rather play an x100 with biters and controlled evolution, at least I know I can match them despite the high costs

[slender wind]

Whoever's hosting can just use the /open command on you and loot your pockets, if that's easier than trying to time it to be online when the game's up

[slim kelp]

oh ok

[steep spindle]

I thought about trying a progressive multiplier

Wanna finish this SE base tho

[slim kelp]

not against it, but the exponential setting is just too rough

[slim kelp]

good luck lol.... 400hrs min

[steep spindle]

Just hit blues and can't remember the hrs played

[slim kelp]

SE is 200-1000 hrs depending on how experienced you are with it

since this is your first (but do know the game a bit), it's probably going to be 400-500hrs

very complex mod, I lost patience mid-way, not sure if I'll ever finish one

[steep spindle]

I wanted to mainly get into it because I like the fact that you could launch rockets before yellow and purple science

[slim kelp]

yeah but then there's 10 more sciences after rocket....

[steep spindle]

True, but it's something to do before 2.0's blind x1k out the gate, unmodded

[slim kelp]

play another game. I'm now in a No Man's Sky mood again :D

monday... who knows.

weekends I work, so no games then

[languid stump]

23 sciences after rocket :D.

[slim kelp]

oh jeeez

I stopped counting at some point (then gave up, this mod is too much)

[languid stump]

It’s been a nice challenge for me

I did the 1000x run as a break from it xD

[steep spindle]

I'm getting to blues, and kinda contemplating reworking to a main bus till I get silos going

[languid stump]

#modded-chat join us!!! :D.

[safe coral]

@slender wind did you have the save last?

[slender wind]

@safe coral yeah I've got the most recent save

Just got home from work, can host if y'all are wanting to play

[safe coral]

yeah ill be joining in like half an hour

[slender wind]

Gives me just enough time to scrounge for some food & get out of my uniform then!

Game should be up, server is something like "1x -> 2000x Cost" and password is "scale2000"

[long mauve]

is it online? @slender wind @safe coral

[slender wind]

Yeah @long mauve

[safe coral]

yeah

[long mauve]

Ill hop on then!

[slender wind]

Woo

[safe coral]

@slender wind I took a save when I left and im assuming its been down since so im resuming that

[safe coral]

and I just got 200k iron/h achievement

[slender wind]

@safe coral yeah, it's been down all night

If you've got it up I might pop in for an hour or so before work

[safe coral]

ill switch it to hosted one sec

its up

literally just got the coal fuel train up and copper is about to kick in when it goes there

next up is actually setting up the signals on stations to disable them

ive set things up so coal is 1-4 but coal fuel is 1-1

the latter I assume will switch to solid fuel or ends up removed when we get electric furnaces

[slender wind]

Yeah that makes sense

I'm technically still in bed but I'll be on in a minute or two

[safe coral]

so just to note progress as ive also stopped for now: evolution is about to hit 0.7 (thankfully behemoths only appear at 0.9), iron and copper trains are operational (two of each), coal fuel train is too (also two), and theres one red ammo supply chain

also starter base iron is effectively gone

behemoth biters are going to be a significant issue if we dont get laser turrets before then due to their resistance to physical

51k RGBM science for the tech itself, 40k RGB for laser, almost done 20k for chem sci, and 11k for battery

that said 0.7 through to 0.9 isnt going to change much

[slim kelp]

the sooner you get rid of it the sooner you can use that space to place a station where it was and continue operating the mall and science normally :)

it's why a use the very crowded miner system, there's no point in delaying the inevitable with spread out miners

[slim kelp]

planned new start, x100, 600/600 biters but evo is slowed down significantly. This one will definitely need walls :P

no expansion, but pollution spread set to 3%, so it will probably reach them sooner than normal

[slim kelp]

1hr ss... not exactly the fastest start, but logi is researched so I can now build stuff

[safe coral]

going to start hosting it again, I think its time to either set up a train mall with the bp ming pasted or to set up train science

[safe coral]

lots to do so I think ill actually wait for others to be around

[slender wind]

@safe coral I'm home now 🙂

Can get online whenever, but can also find ways to occupy my time if your attention is needed elsewhere

[slim kelp]

two hours in, I am a tad worried about pollution spread over the water to the right

the "sea of red" starts at the edge of that lake, if pollution goes there, the fun starts

[slender wind]

Sure hope you've got walls... you're gonna need 'em

[jovial oriole]

I hope those are proper ratios

1 gear assembler per 10 red science

[safe coral]

ill start it up

was starting on the mall you pasted but I dont have all the ingredients

[slender wind]

No prob

[slim kelp]

oh boy, there they are...

[mossy saddle]

oooh

looks like the first time I saw my biters LOL

watch out suddenly they'll all be there..

[slim kelp]

3hrs ss ... expansion disabled, but yea, solid "wall" of read all directions

not even sure where should I wall... left is pretty clear, there's that bottleneck between lakes... but north... ugh >.<

anyway, wont' spend time walling until the cloud reaches the radars

[slim kelp]

eh, eh, works...

just about running out of red stuff to research

puny 450 spm... but for x100 is more than enough... time to start wallin'

oh boy, I forgot how many are on 600%.... many !

[jovial oriole]

100x? I thought I read 1000x before, guess I'm mistaken haha

Well, with these world settings, 100x will be easy for ya

[slim kelp]

100x only, yes, but biters 600/600...

there's going to be a lot of victims at THE WALL once the fun starts

hopefully it holds until I get to bots

because I'll definitely not rebuild this manually...

I think I'll defend the south closer to home because this wall building is taking WAY too long

just below those visible resources, and that's it

[inland kelp]

100x with 600/600 biters is pretty brutal, even with expansion disabled
That's going to be fun 😛

[slim kelp]

uh oh, starter iron is already insufficient... there are more fields but.. damn, not even trains researched yet

perimeter secured... for now...

[slender wind]

@safe coral disregard, I'm dumb and I don't know how math/time works apparently

[safe coral]

well good thing I was in bed beause now idk what you said

[slender wind]

Twas a message saying I could pull the game up to transfer the save (I did a little SP work) if you were online in the next hour and a half...

Before realizing I had almost three hours before I had to do anything

[slim kelp]

It has begun

[safe coral]

can do, ill probably not end up playing solo though but just in case

[slender wind]

That's fair. Honestly I might jump in and play for a bit this morning anyway, I can ping you when I'm wrapping up if you're gonna be around?

I'll leave around 8am EST and I'll be home around 2pm probably

[slim kelp]

but there is military science, and just 3 researches away from flamers

I do have one major issue tho... there is no other stone visible on the map right now. Ouch.

[safe coral]

ill be around for like the next 10 hours :P

[slender wind]

👍

Game's hosted if you feel like joining

Will ping when I'm closer to shutting down before work so we can transfer the save

[slim kelp]

soon.

[quiet sandal]

It’s not gonna

Biters in 600/600 are brutal

The short wall in the south will likely get overrun

[slim kelp]

ok, what now ? I haven't done this before

[slim kelp]

evo is slowed down... so for now it's ... fine

[safe coral]

I dont think the evo is that big of a deal :P

we're plodding along and setting up stations for mass production of everything meanwhile no blue science packs or flamethrowers and evo is about 0.7

[jovial oriole]

What you have todo is simple, build pipes closer to the bases, add a hella lot of flamethrowers and repeat while not dying, also walls help in deconstruction mode a lot

If possible, add walls around the pipes 2 tiles away, so the flamethrowers can't dmg them

[quiet sandal]

Don’t need the teeth, give the walls spacing between the defenses

Also add an underground pipe at the front

Then it’s as simple as copy and pasting, slowly moving closer

[slim kelp]

yeah if you look at the main channel I did advance a bit into them, but I"m not really good at this... first time I play with 600/600

it will get worse as it's getting very close to 20% evo

[safe coral]

I feel like red ammo is underestimated, especially with a few damage techs

[slim kelp]

yeah forgot to take it with me... will do so this round

[safe coral]

I meant in turrets

[slim kelp]

I really have to push that south choke point

[safe coral]

like defensively

[slim kelp]

complicated logistics... maybe I'll setup red ammo for the choke points, right now the middle wall is too long for it

[slim kelp]

and manual building >.< far away from bots

[quiet sandal]

I did it with manual building too

Copy and pasting still makes it easier to build imo

[slim kelp]

true

I abandoned that position, it's not helping in any way, will just dig in and wait for tech

just like UA :P

that should reduce the pollution significantly

well, after of course

I might be forced to go with solar, because this is all the coal I have >.<

and starter one is half dead already

[modern citrus]

I see two decent looking oil fields, maybe devote one to solid fuel for power and the other towards science/factory stuffs?

[slim kelp]

lol found the missing 2nd stone patch... it's underwater >.< oh well, 1 mil is not to shabby, it will provide at least a few more military techs

[slim kelp]

good idea !

[quiet sandal]

lol I had the opposite problem in my ultra deathworld run

Almost no oil and was dangerously low on coal until I expanded to an island that had something like 9.4m

Not only solved my power problems but also let me setup coal liquefaction to solve my oil problems

I think when I expanded to that island my coal patch was around 27,000 left

[slim kelp]

oh boy. Ammo consumption will start increasing

[slim kelp]

wow, horrible :P

you almost lost the game, basically

[mossy saddle]

he loves the risks xD

[quiet sandal]

Well it was either that or closer to 2.7K

I forget which one

For a while I had been pulling excess coal from my smelters to keep power production fed

I was very lucky that island was there because once I had cleared it I didn’t need to defend it at all, and just needed a single two way train line for it

The next coal patch was buried under a sea of 50,000 nests that I’d have to clear out to get to it

I’m playing another ultra deathworld on that seed so this time I think I’ll clear it out much sooner

[slim kelp]

this will fix pretty much all the problems

followed by solar

[slim kelp]

power graph, 1hr... already visible drop

pollution in forrested areas is already shrinking, it was beyond that wall

OP.

[mossy saddle]

Damn nice job

[slim kelp]

power use droped from a peak of 100+ MW to just 65 MW now, and I'm not yet done filling stuff with ef1

[mossy saddle]

Should I use the green modules too then?

I'm at 1GW of power almost

[slim kelp]

you can cut that to almost in half... if you're still on coal, then definitely !

being such a long game with these huge researches, modules pay for themselves many times over

I could increase spm to wait less, but meh, resources are rather limited, it's a trainworld base config, so 33% spread... fields are far away...

going for blue science now and bots

and while that researches, switch all power to solar

[languid stump]

Going well for ya wave

Noice

Amazing how much easier the game can be with a decent economic build order :p

[slim kelp]

still unsure how to break through the wall of red

high level military is far, far away

[languid stump]

I think poison + defender capsule + yellow rocket + combat shotgun will be your first effective combination

[slim kelp]

combat shotgun lol

that's like half a million points away if not more

[languid stump]

Mhm it’s 150 * 1000 blue science to unlock that and poison

But idk how you deal with worms without poison

Maybe a lot of rockets can do it idk

[slim kelp]

probabil rockets yes, make a fort to keep them away, then start sniping

when enough worms are down, move the fort closer... and keep going

[languid stump]

What evolution?

[slim kelp]

25% now

[languid stump]

Oh that’s not as bad as I would have expected

[slim kelp]

(it's slowed down to some 1/10 of normal)

[languid stump]

Nice

[slim kelp]

yeah I didn't want to make the game impossible like the one fireball is playing

they have 70% already and still on red/green/mil tech

[languid stump]

Ooof

[slim kelp]

by the time they get tanks (if even !), they'll be facing behemoths and abandon the game

[safe coral]

this works as youd expect right?

like its equivalent to 1,1,1 3s x500

im making a tech scaling mod since the costs get too high too quickly and its hard to tune with the one I was using

[languid stump]

Defensively speaking yea

But offensively it gets very hard into worms larger than medium

As they out range the flame turret

[slim kelp]

you have to test how the labs are consuming those

will it wait until there are 10+ inside before starting the run ?

also 3s is very short, much shorter than any normal tech, shouldn't it be 300s ?

[safe coral]

ive made it also multiply time

wanted to do it that way so you can actually see what the multiplier is

vs just multiplying the count

[slim kelp]

yeah sounds good

[safe coral]

its also on the portal now

for now im going to continue the save ive got with ming and fire

[slim kelp]

might also reduce inserter movement since now it would be useful to have stack inserters into the labs

with 20 machine limit instead of 2

btw is it configurable ? as in, you specify exactly what's the multiplier ?

or just that choice of 1 in 5

[safe coral]

I made it as configurable as I could

without it being complicated

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Hexi_Scaling_Science_Cost

[slim kelp]

yes looking at it now, already bookmarked

will give it a try later

[safe coral]

this is where you change it to 1,10,100,1000,10000 isnt it? :P

[slim kelp]

I'm not THAT crazy

but it is missing a 250 between 100 and 1000

[safe coral]

for the defaults?

[slim kelp]

yeah, the jump from whatever is multiplied by 100 to 1000 seems very harsh

[safe coral]

because ironically the only tech that matches that 1000 is silo for vanilla tech

all its prereqs are 4

[slim kelp]

ah

[safe coral]

so it basically goes from 100 to 5000 due to the added mult as well

[slim kelp]

fuck.

[safe coral]

its only 5mil

[slim kelp]

"only"

[safe coral]

you can also just drop the 5 to a 1

or drop 1000 to 100, make the 5 a 10, and add other techs in the path to the important list so it feels like an achievement for them all :P

very simple mod to make though, 73 lines in data-final-fixes plus the other required stuff

[mossy saddle]

you can get over 1k with that mod?

[safe coral]

just shove numbers into it

default is 5000x on the silo which I guess is high

[slender wind]

@safe coral I'm home from work for the day, did you wind up playing any in SP?

[safe coral]

about an hour

secured bottom-right

[slender wind]

Cool beans

[safe coral]

starting up now

[slender wind]

👍

[safe coral]

also that science thing is only red

[slender wind]

Hm. Weird

[slender wind]

Science is a thing again!

Flamethrowers are done researching, so I'll be working on the walls a bit... and I'm putting a few other sciences (looking at you, eff modules) in the queue to get that taken care of as well

Also stack inserters b/c the loaders are too slow

[safe coral]

could always knock out the global boost

its, what, 100k RG?

couple hours of research :P

ill hop on for an hour or so if its up

wait nvm I dont have time

ill hop on tomorrow :P

[slender wind]

Inserter stack size is locked behind stack inserters anyway

But I'll probably queue that in at some point tonight

[safe coral]

its more that its an RB tech

and I think a lot of blueprints are going to assume that you have at least that stacking on basic inserters

but it would also mean 4 on stack inserters as well which would help trains even more

[slender wind]

Nah, ICB2 gives +1 to regular inserters, that's only red/green

But it's 88k plus the 37k for ICB1

[safe coral]

thats only about 2.5 hours of research at current production :P

oh dont forget about rockets, the nearby nests need clearing out and idk what else we can use for it

[slender wind]

Only problem is military science isn't built

I finished flamethrowers with what we had sitting around, but we don't have enough to unlock rockets yet

[slender wind]

@safe coral good news, I think gun turrets and red ammo is still effective enough to take out the bases we know about

[safe coral]

yes but its very dangerous now

evo is approaching .8

[slender wind]

Bad news, I don't think it can be done as a single person unless we're prepared to commit a LOT of resources

Evo is over .8

[safe coral]

.9 is the big problem

thats behemoths

[slender wind]

Barely, we're only at .8066

But yeah

[safe coral]

12 flat physical resistance

[slender wind]

I was able to to turret creep with red ammo and kill a spawner, and only lost one turret in the process

[safe coral]

red ammo is not killing them at that point

how far are lasers again?

[slender wind]

The issue is the medium worms that outrange me, I can't place the turret and fill it fast enough to kill the worms

Lasers are around 100k away, the issue will be the 50k blue science

But also, current total so far this game is around 120k red/green science

[safe coral]

I think we get behemoths before lasers

[slender wind]

Unless we can pivot to lasers now and absolutely rush it, I think that's probably correct

Might be wise to take a page out of Wave's book though and grab eff1's first

If we can drop the pollution rate we won't need to contend with more than expansion attempts for a while

[safe coral]

thats also a considerable cost

[slender wind]

It's also around 100k, but it's only red/green

The other other option is cheese strats

Sacrificial turrets, flood the area - no ammo, just the turret - and then manually kill the spawners

It'd probably mean death runs but does that really matter?

[languid stump]

Rockets can range medium worms

Poison can kill them in 2 tosses

[slender wind]

The issue is the cost haha

[languid stump]

Both cheaper than lasers :D.

[slender wind]

On this map? I wouldn't be so sure...

Well, rockets are

Poison I don't know if it is, actually

[languid stump]

Poison is cheaper than rockets if you can hit like 3 worms

So… almost surely

[slender wind]

Oh you mean the items themselves

[languid stump]

Oh the tech too

[slender wind]

That part isn't an issue for us... it's the cost of sciences

[languid stump]

It’s military 3 which is a prerequisite of lasers

150 blue science is the base cost… * whatever mult you have

[slender wind]

Is mil3 a prereq for lasers? I was thinking it wasn't for some reason

& idk the values, but basically the more techs are in the chain, the more expensive it gets

Robots are ~1m, advanced logistics is almost 2.5 mil

[languid stump]

Oh it isn’t look at that

But it is 2.5x cheaper tech cost than laser unlock

And a default laser with no upgrades kinda sucks too

[languid stump]

Oh more than 2.5x then

[slender wind]

Yeah it's some sort of compounding thing, I just don't know the exact specifics

But like... it's rough. It's great, but it's rough.

[languid stump]

I can imagine yea

Sounds like you guys are kinda up shits creek :D.

[slender wind]

Always

And I wouldn't have it any other way

[languid stump]

Heh

But yea I would def suggest poison bc you can run in and throw a few and it’s guaranteed worm kills

[slender wind]

If we can, I'm sure we will... we got flamethrowers today but with pollution already being an issue, I'm reluctant to set up flamethrowers before we find a way to knock down the nearest bugs

[languid stump]

If it’s just medium worms you should be able to do it with flamethrowers creep :D.

They will out range medium worms

Just barely

[slender wind]

Yeah, but the other issue is that we don't have oil actually at the walls yet

Though that's resolved easily enough... idk, I'm sure we can handle it

[languid stump]

Good luck with imminent pipe hell haha

🍀

[slender wind]

😄

[candid shadow]

not lookin too hot but we're survivin

[spark idol]

Is this the new thing

Biters on games

[slim kelp]

seems like it, yes... 11 hours in, still no chemical science (but close to it), 25k kills and climbing

[mossy saddle]

kills go very fast

[slim kelp]

They will only increase

Adding blue science at 500 spm will probably mean doubling the pollution

[mossy saddle]

pollution is fun ^^

[slim kelp]

I'll probably need to add mines at the walls

The attack waves are huuuuge at 600% 😬

[mossy saddle]

xD yeah I've had that issue too that's why I put them on peacefull

[slim kelp]

Between the turrets. If they break through at leas they'll explode on the mines instead of eating all my turrets

Well the goal of this run is "kill lots of biters" so no peace here!

[safe coral]

sum of all prior techs x1.25 plus its own default cost

[safe coral]

just for clarity for what our things cost: mil3 is 26k, laser turret is 51k and has an additional 50k prerequisite of lasers

we might have time to research laser turrets before evo hits .9

but rockets are 20k with no blue pack requirement on top

[languid stump]

I find unupgraded lasers to be pretty lackluster too

[safe coral]

its more the cost

which equates to an evo increase

when I left evo was at .78 so we dont exactly have much headroom

I personally think rockets are mandatory to clear out nearby nests so that the only behemoths that need dealing with are expansion attempts

damage to walls will be unavoidable

...it already was

[languid stump]

Heh, all I know is, you guys are in for some pain xD

[safe coral]

.9 is going to suck

im prepared for this save to outright fail

[languid stump]

It does seem like the biters have the upper hand at the moment

Maybe with enough grit you can turn it around :D.

[safe coral]

but I think its defendable, emergency mines if we really have to

but yeah 20k for rockets, maybe throw in the extra 2.3k for weapon speed to get that +50%

then hope that behemoths arent too bad

[inland kelp]

100x with biters sounds interesting......

[slender wind]

@safe coral I don't know how the evolution mechanic works exactly, but the majority of our evo factor is in pollution rn. If we kill a bunch of nests, what impact will that have?

[safe coral]

on the save I have pollution was 80%

killing nests will make a jump but I think itll be ok

I dont think its avoidable either way

not killing nests will mean constant behemoth attacks

[slender wind]

Also I'm home for now, can host whenever. I need to leave again in like an hour, but I should only be gone for 30 min, 45 on the outside. Gotta get a TB test done at work real quick (work is an 8 minute walk away)

[safe coral]

im getting food shortly but after that sure

[slender wind]

I agree it's unavoidable. Moreso I was still rolling around the idea of turning off science and just throwing ourselves at the bases repeatedly with sacrificial turrets to take out the spawners. Worms don't really matter, at least for now

[safe coral]

unless evo hits like .88 I dont think thats needed

rockets are going to be useful regardless for killing the odd behemoth as needed

[slender wind]

That's fair

[safe coral]

even if its like 15 rockets per

[slender wind]

Also, flamethrowers produce pollution yes?

Like the flame does

[safe coral]

think so?

ok rephrase, they def do but im not 100% sure it counts for evo

[slender wind]

Less worried about evo for that, more about triggering more attacks

[safe coral]

theyd aggro on that local pollution though

so thats not an issue

[slender wind]

Means more attacks on the wall, does it not?

[safe coral]

right, yes

I was thinking of offensive use

[slender wind]

Ah, I was talking defensive

[safe coral]

wiki doesnt actually state

time for a test

[slender wind]

The walls are getting pummeled right now, I know knocking out the nearby bases will solve some of that, but we really need to get ConBots soon... or at least as soon as we can... I can modify my normal setup for supplying the walls to work without requester chests, but ConBots are the only way to auto repair walls

[safe coral]

hm

fire does not increase evo

or its so minor that time evo overwhelms it

I think having to repair walls is going to be part of playing this save until nests are cleared out

doubled up turret lines isnt enough to stop them in time

maybe a modified layout to cram more turrets in would do it but eeh

[slender wind]

True, weaving the belts w/ undergrounds to put turrets in the middle would help a bit

[safe coral]

not what I was thinking of actually

[slender wind]

At least it's more firepower, slightly faster deaths... could also spruce up the walls with some teeth to break the ai a little bit

[safe coral]

but that would use less space

so its better

yeah teeth would help

[slender wind]

We had gotten to a point where an attack was able to take out a power pole, so that's a thing to be aware of

[safe coral]

thats new

[slender wind]

It might be worth it to add the flamethrowers even if the pollution triggers more attacks, simply to limit how much repair we need to do - and how much ammo we throw at the bugs

[safe coral]

oh definitely considering it doesnt actually increase evo

at least the handheld didnt

id be surprised if turret is different

[slender wind]

I would assume it works the same

That can be the project for today/tonight then I guess

The game is up, but paused - Hex, you're an admin so you should be able to unpause whenever!
I'm gonna fill out a bit of paperwork and have a snack, but then I'll unpause & play if you're not already on

[safe coral]

aight

[safe coral]

@slender wind ive just paused, im not sure this design is enough, just watched a single attack almost kill a turret; the left nest needs to go ASAP

big biters are distracting the front line of turrets so they dont deal with spitters

[slender wind]

@safe coral just got home

Gimme a minute to thaw & get out of uniform, then I'm ready

[safe coral]

mmk, big nest is big problem :P

[slender wind]

ready

[candid shadow]

I'm doing 10x with biters and halfway to deathworld and it's... cutting it close lol

[safe coral]

we're at almost .82 evo and still struggling

about to suicide dive the big nest to remove specifically biter spawners

look at this bs

[jovial oriole]

Easy fix with flamethrower spam

[jovial oriole]

Lol, I specifically go for spitters

[jovial oriole]

It was for the first 14 hours, after that I got flamethrowers and it just became my regular 600 600 deathworld midgame experience

[inland kelp]

👀 the pollution cloud is just killer with multiplier i can imagine on deathworldish

[inland kelp]

Yeh, I can see that happening. The start is usually the difficult part when its about biters

[jovial oriole]

Yup

I needed to defend against big biters with red ammo lol

For like 6 hours

That was hell

And needed to take out a nest with red ammo + nades for me oil

When it was over 60% evo

Just funny

Now it is basically a waiting game of, shooting a few nests, wait till flamers killed all angry biters, repeat

Already hyped for my 1000x in 10 years

[inland kelp]

the red ammo choice surprises me, it causes more production making it

[safe coral]

resistances

[jovial oriole]

I rn need 70 copper lanes and I think it was 60 iron lanes for just yellow science at 6.5 science a sec in a normal world equivalent xD

[inland kelp]

hmm

[safe coral]

once youre at big biters you cant afford to use the worse ammo

[jovial oriole]

I just had 4 assemblers crafting ammo, while my other 300 where doing science

3 yellow, one red

That is as easy as it gets

[jovial oriole]

The dmg upgrades also were hugely important for survival

[inland kelp]

hmm i can see this turning around like that at that scale yes

[jovial oriole]

Otherwise I'd need like 20 red ammo per big biter I believe?

And with expansions having up to 20 biters, even a single one, getting focussed by 16 turrets ain't enough to kill all asap without taking dmg through spitters

[jovial oriole]

I am not hyped for purple science, I believe as soon as I have everything needed for yellow, I'll just transport the resources per train and just priority yellow, so that purple also gets some trains, whenever yellow can't produce anymore, whilst I'll liberate more patches

[safe coral]

calling it quits on that save

[candid shadow]

I’ve barely unlocked trains and already have big biters knocking

[inland kelp]

👀 yeh that's kinda scary

[safe coral]

@slender wind https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Hexi_Scaling_Science_Cost

[candid shadow]

I mean, I’m surviving at least

Like, I’m going to have to fight for a new iron patch soon but I’m so close to being sustainable

[safe coral]

also what QoL mods do you want?

[slender wind]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/blueprint-shotgun this isn't one I want for this run, I just love the idea and it was on the first page

[candid shadow]

I like spiderbots

[safe coral]

the urge to just throw stacking beltboxes and loaders on

[slender wind]

I mean I'm down for basically any mods

Wanna do a Bob's/Angel's run? lmao (i'm like 15% serious)

[safe coral]

inflated science BA 🤔

or is it already mental?

[slender wind]

I think inflated BA would be fun, but we'd have to keep the scaling fairly low

Either that or play without biters

[safe coral]

im not ready for full-on BA yet as ive not done either

ooooor

random recipes mod

[slender wind]

IMO they're better together than seperate. But maybe better to have your intro not be a multiplier run

Random Recipes would be fun. Chaotic, but fun

[safe coral]

vanilla but random recipes, proper scaling multiplier and not quickly insane

plus some QoL and gameplay improvement mods

trains with stackers and loaders sounds fun

[slender wind]

Helmod for sure, plz. Also Milestones

[safe coral]

janky quality 🤔

[slender wind]

10/10 would play janky quality

[safe coral]

may as well

factorissimo?

[slender wind]

Sure

If we're doing random recipes, FNEI as well. Also, should we maybe take the planning to DM to avoid blowing up the thread?

[safe coral]

ok

[blissful abyss]

RB > FNEI imho, but that's just me

[slender wind]

Either is fine by me

[blissful abyss]

both work fine together too

also FP and Helmod 😛

[slender wind]

True true

[blissful abyss]

VehicleSnap, TaskList, Module Inserter Simplified, PipeVisualizer, BeltVisualizer, Factory Search, Cursor Enhancements, Bullet Trains,.......

[jovial oriole]

Does Vehiclesnap snap it to whole degrees?