High Science Multiplier

[long mauve]

adding more ore/oil will be painful without trains but doable

[languid stump]

Buuuut. Pretty close :D.

[long mauve]

yeah your gonna pass me I bet haha

[languid stump]

Slightly painful maybe

[long mauve]

more likely just mindless belt manuvering

[languid stump]

Yeah I’m trying rush that victory and get back to my SE game lol

I just need a little shy of 1000 crude / second

And 5 more iron ore belts from this nearby iron

[long mauve]

thats 10,000% unmoduled oil field %. doable! and 5 belts should easily come from 1 patch

[languid stump]

Yeah! I think so

And it’s already connected to some iron and oil so

It will turn on and can start working I think

[long mauve]

is it 1200 spm?

[languid stump]

While I fix bottleneck. Then I think it will be faster than red / green

1.8k

[long mauve]

ah nice

[languid stump]

So I gotta upgrade my red / green at some point there

Maybe with robots idk

[long mauve]

you could potentially use modules to bump it up.

[languid stump]

Definitely yea, I’m just not sure I want to walk around handplacing then lol

It takes some decent time and it’s kinda close to my mall

So might be good first project for the bots

[long mauve]

yeah it would be a nice project, I got them and then didnt do anything with them yet. i need to design some blueprints

[languid stump]

I have it ratiod for ez upgrade to 1.8k if I bring another set of iron belts over

[long mauve]

realistically I could design a 2.7K spm base and thenplace it with bots and upgrade it later

[languid stump]

Yeah definitely

I’m thinking that’s how I’ll do my purple / yellow, beacons and then plan to upgrade some of it to prod3

[long mauve]

ive thought about the upgradability to beacons in starter bases but never implemented it

[languid stump]

It’s usually spacious but here it’s fine

[long mauve]

I do have cliffs so that was a pain before oil

[languid stump]

Ohhh I bet

Yeah I turned those off

I got my labs prodded so that’s nice

[long mauve]

oh i forgot to do that yet, I should

[languid stump]

But I’m pretty sure on green science it costs more coal than it saves iron/ copper xd

[long mauve]

interesting

time for cursed labs, :P

[languid stump]

Nah. I accepted the trade, since I just need the coal power plants to be healthy until robots can make solar fields

[long mauve]

thats a big thing I can do with bots as well, solar! good idea

[languid stump]

Oh yeah

I think 1000x tech cost makes nuclear bad

So I’m just going solar / accumulator

[long mauve]

you calculated solar and nuclear ( with tech ) to be equivalent to 40 mw. with 1000x science it should be around 40 gw? 🤷‍♂️

[languid stump]

Yeah exactly

That’s nuts

Solar for sure

[long mauve]

and thats not even including kovarex which Id want with small patches

[languid stump]

Yeah you could get kovarex, or you could win xD

[long mauve]

yeah haha

after I win I am researching everything then turning off 1000x to get as much mining prod as i can

[languid stump]

Oh nice

Gonna turn it into a megabase proper

That will be fun

[long mauve]

yeah, see how far I can push it

[languid stump]

How far are you willing to direct insert? :D.

[long mauve]

yes

I will go to technical factorio and take their blueprints

[languid stump]

May as well

I gotta decide how I’m gonna do my purple science now

[long mauve]

saw GGs do some direct insertion, I have a plan as well

[languid stump]

I guess once I have electric furnaces I can just make entire ore patches to steel

[long mauve]

look at these ratios

[languid stump]

And then maybe I’ll set up some beacon designs for red chips

Seems like a good way to go

[long mauve]

ill definitely beacon the smelting and chips as soon as possible

[languid stump]

I’m probably gonna plan it for beacons right away though

I want prod3 in the purple science ASAP

You need it for silo anyway so ima just plan it for that

[long mauve]

actually thats not a bad idea

how much is prod3? 50K? so thats 125K purple. or about an hour

[languid stump]

I probably will also prod3 my green chip, but not my red chip

Dunno maybe not

But def the purple science

[long mauve]

ill beacon anythign when I upgrade

[long mauve]

awesome!

[languid stump]

its a very 'special' production line

lol

[long mauve]

how so lol

[steep spindle]

NICE!

[steep spindle]

Wait did you handcraft it

[languid stump]

im almost done xd

then youll see why lol

[long mauve]

im scared

[steep spindle]

🤔

[languid stump]

Lazy blue science river :D.

[long mauve]

thats terrible

[languid stump]

So now I get to do advanced oil processing and then add oil things until it bottlenecks on iron

Then another iron mine

Then hooooopefully bots

[long mauve]

so you are speeding ahead of me haha, still need to do anything with bots. ill get something done tonight

[languid stump]

I’ve been letting it afk some when I do other things which helps

I don’t have to scale quite as much

[long mauve]

yeah, I try not to afk I always go looking for more ore patches or more science

[quiet sandal]

Slow and steady wins the race

[steep spindle]

WoW.

@languid stump

[languid stump]

Ok well I have a plan for purple science

Apparently

If you plan for module3 for most stuff, and external steel input, it only needs 6 belt steel, 6 belt copper ore, 5 belt iron ore, 8 belt stone ore, 2 belt coal ore, 1 more pipe of crude oil

I can get 1.8k purple science

[steep spindle]

You saw my mess

[languid stump]

Yeah lol

Inspired me to plan for prod3 :p

Except the furnaces

[steep spindle]

Oh haha

[long mauve]

only

im gonna starve my purple then until I get to beacons

[languid stump]

Yeah it’s surprisingly low machine counts on the other things tbh

Same here

But it should be fine

[steep spindle]

I may do the same tbh

[languid stump]

Can let it buffer and do blue science and then research the beacons and such

Cause mine is gonna starve until beacon + assembly 3 + speed3 + prod3

[long mauve]

true!

[languid stump]

Like you probably won’t have done rocket fuel yet but idk

[long mauve]

I gotta go now, ill probably do something like that. cya!

[languid stump]

CYa!

[steep spindle]

Ttyl!

[mossy saddle]

nice job I'm proud of you!

[languid stump]

Thank you!

I did a lot today

I have almost no handbuilding left

[mossy saddle]

I will nearly start building my rails waiting for belts to be made and assemblers...

got distracted by someone so I couldn't finish it

[languid stump]

That’s a big step for a game with your longevity

No skipping rails on k2se I reckon

[mossy saddle]

yeah rails are very important someone made me a design that I'll use xd

[languid stump]

Noice

Hopefully it’s a good one

[mossy saddle]

it's a brick design so I won't use the normal squares like everyone since ggs hates them 😛

I forced him to do the powerpoles so I'll make him happy with trains

[vagrant anchor]

I'm thinking of just freestyling the trains

Not sure if it'll come back to bite me later though

[languid stump]

Freestyle is the way to go

Well, free ish

[vagrant anchor]

Yeah grid aligned

[languid stump]

Mhm

[mossy saddle]

oh I thought real freestyle!

[vagrant anchor]

Even just grid aligned can possibly get quite annoying though, not sure

[languid stump]

If poorly made definitely

[vagrant anchor]

I might just make a 4lane version of my modular base

[languid stump]

Might be nice for 1000x

At times

[vagrant anchor]

I'm still thinking about train size though

I have a mod that makes trains really fast and wagons hold a lot for later tiers so I'll probably be using the elevator

[mossy saddle]

I use 1-4

can make it longer though upto 2-8

[vagrant anchor]

Yeah but elevator should be more ups efficient with longer trains

And also least locomotives per wagon

So like, if you have a 1-16 train going through at full speed its gonna be a good bit better than 4 1-4 trains

[mossy saddle]

hmm true

I'll have to think about it more then

:l my mind gonna explode a bout trains

[languid stump]

I’ve heard smaller trains are better through the elevator

I dunno the truth of it

But the claim was that the elevator does a lot of weird scripting when the train is going in and out

[vagrant anchor]

That is quite counterintuitive

The elevator does weird stuff to make sure the train "flows" through nicely I think

If only there was a setting to disable that though

There's a section of the train which is shared between the elevator on the ground and in space

It's probably also a good idea to enable "force train out" so it doesn't have to relay the signal conditions

It might be that trains smaller than the elevator are more efficient...

[mossy saddle]

isn't efficiency good?

[vagrant anchor]

Never mind it makes sense that small trains are more efficient

Since they don't just directly follow after they have a clear path

There is less time where the train is in both the elevator and ground

[mossy saddle]

xD I'm not doing 1-1

[vagrant anchor]

Not 1-1 that might not be good due to only sending 1 wagon per locomotive

Imma do some estimations to figure out ideal train length

[mossy saddle]

keep me up to date if you want ^^ not sure how you'll test, with full trains?

[vagrant anchor]

It'll be based on minimising the amount of time it is in the cross between the elevator and the surface

[vagrant anchor]

Just a calculation

I could test but since it's a spike when the stuff passes through its a bit hard

[languid stump]

1-1 trains are convenient for other reasons tho

Like no wagon balance

Idk, prob doesn’t matter hugely

[candid shadow]

I’ll save you some time and say it’s between 1-2 and 1-4 depending on whether your train network is primarily short distance (or tons of stops and starts) or whether trains can travel relatively unimpeded to their destinations

[vagrant anchor]

Well, assuming all trains go max speed through the elevator

[candid shadow]

Oh this is for SE stuff, I didn’t read far enough up

Hmm

[vagrant anchor]

Oh, I thought someone has figured it out already

My understanding of how SE does it is this
There's an internal station inside the elevator building to "trick" the train to travel there, and then the train enters the elevator the scripting begins, and the elevator spawns in sections of the train partially inside the elevator, and keeps syncing between the top and bottom

So the more time a train spends inside the elevator the worse it is, thus max speed travel through would be ideal, as for the train length that's a bit wacky

I'll probably have to look into the code or do some in game testing, since I'm not sure if the trains are spawned in wagon by wagon basis or something like that

Or perhaps, there's a pretty long internal railroad in the elevator that can hold the trains and maintain their correct acceleration and such, or it might be scripted in to force the acceleration and braking to be correct

[quiet sandal]

welp, chem is researched

about how many resources I need to build this part

[quiet sandal]

@elder rover here's our thread, where people won't be confused about what we're doing

[elder rover]

lol

failed green science, the furnaces are fine but i need to redo the intermediates

belt routing is NUTS

[quiet sandal]

it is

[elder rover]

11 iron lines and 3 copper lines into 4 copper inputs and 8 iron inputs

i honestly think i need to redo it

but i want to keep the ratio 1:1 on everything

ie not one item wasted or one item missing

[quiet sandal]

also btw 900 SPM is nowhere near enough

I'm currently at 1,800 SPM upgrading to 3,600 SPM

for chem science alone at 3,600 SPM it's 24 red belts of iron

[mossy saddle]

3.6k atleast

[elder rover]

im making a blueprint to copy paste

each oen fills 1 yellow belt

well, they will when i get blue asemblers which i dont have yet

[quiet sandal]

Also a tip for the future: go production science before utility

I have to assume you have biters disabled so production science is far more useful

Beacons, Module 3s, blue belts, etc.

At this scale the way you play the game has to fundamentally change

[elder rover]

biters are not disabled

i think i am approaching this all wrong

[quiet sandal]

W h a t

[elder rover]

with red science i was able to make a blueprint thats 900 science and it fits nicely and everything is ratiod

I dont think that will work here, meaning, I may have to do like 100 green spm, and then stack them into a block to make the 900, the problem is I will have machines producing more than i need (lots of 1.5 machnes needed etc)

900 is the lwoest i can go where there isnt a need for .x of a machine

other than coal but im ignoring coal mining

[quiet sandal]

If you can do this with biters enabled I’d be really surprised

In a normal game it’s only 50 military science for flamethrowers, but here it’s 50,000

[elder rover]

im not playing 100% vanilla, i have biters enabled and mods to help take care of them (but i also have biter mods like frost/toxic/explosive, etc)

[quiet sandal]

Well, I guess we’ll see how that goes

[quiet sandal]

Well, just keep those defenses heavily armed

That evo is already high and it’s gonna go even faster

[elder rover]

😄

current

[vagrant anchor]

isnt purple science the one that gets you that?

yellow is called production and gives weapons stuff iirc

[vagrant anchor]

you can but extremely tuned down

railworld is definitely possible as well but you need to afk for 100 hours

[vagrant anchor]

hmm, seems like the elevator teleports train segments when the next segment is partially inside

so i would guess having more than 1 locomotive would really hurt performance

the stuff that a wagon carries also doesnt seem to have much effect, a wagon carrying 320 stacks of green chips is basically the same as an empty wagon, so ill just use empty wagons for testing

with a very fast train, 1-1, the wagon spends 16 ticks detached (this should be the main scripting)

Another interesting thing is how fast the train goes, since the elevator is based on an internal station, the train decelerates when heading into the elevator, but gets teleported to the other side before it reaches the stop, the faster the train can brake the better such that the train has more speed while passing through

[mossy saddle]

So focusing break spot is important?

[vagrant anchor]

Braking speed likely determines the ups impact

I'll need to do some more testing once I'm done with dinner

But the ideal train size will likely change substantially with more braking speed research

I don't think there's any way to manipulate it either, since the train stop is at the end of the elevator internal rail without any way to extend that rail out further

Maybe some crazy shit with recursive bps swapping train schedules, but trains can't do that pretty sure unless it's parked

[vagrant anchor]

hmm this is interesting

it still takes 32 ticks for a 1-2 train to fully teleport over (with part of it still in the elevator rail, but it is entirely on the other surface)

maybe its due to the train speed

this is also with full braking force research so maybe thats why

longer trains do seem to take more scripting when passing through an elevator though...

its actually quite significant

44 ticks for a 1-3 train... this is a bit weird

[mossy saddle]

Soooo it takes a bit longer but not to much

[vagrant anchor]

no, it takes shorter per wagon...

this is weird

it should have been more than 48 but somehow its less???

[mossy saddle]

xD is that bad?

Isn't faster good!

[vagrant anchor]

ok longer trains do have much more ups impact though

[vagrant anchor]

yeah but it goes against my prediction

theres some weird shit going on

[mossy saddle]

😆 is it breaking you?

[vagrant anchor]

going from 1-3 to 1-4 made the peak increase by 1ms though

which is more than the roughly 0.5ms increase from 1-2 to 1-3

[mossy saddle]

1ms isn't to bad!

[vagrant anchor]

not 1ms

0.1ms

and 0.05ms

man is there some profiling software

[mossy saddle]

Oh you won't feel that!

[vagrant anchor]

not that i wont feel that

its quite significant

especially since this is with max braking force

[mossy saddle]

With inf research?

[vagrant anchor]

no

[mossy saddle]

Just the basic isn't to bad!

[vagrant anchor]

actually, braking force 7 takes M2

so by the time i have elevator i should have it

[mossy saddle]

xD no stress froggy

Your pc will be able to survive!

When do you unlock it?

[vagrant anchor]

no 💀 my inserter upate time is already at like 3ms for some weird reason

i really have no idea why

[languid stump]

Slow inserters are slow

[mossy saddle]

xD you're already struggling?

[vagrant anchor]

yeah but still

[languid stump]

Standardize fast or stack inserters

[vagrant anchor]

theres only like 5k of them active at all times

[languid stump]

And start using more direct insertion

[vagrant anchor]

i even have a mod that stops inserter chasing belt items

[mossy saddle]

What are your PC specs frogger

[vagrant anchor]

i5-8th gen

its a laptop

[languid stump]

I mean, that’s nice and all, but it’s still better to direct insertion

[vagrant anchor]

yeah ofc

new base will be optimised

old base is just.. old

[mossy saddle]

xD I also bought a laptop!!

[languid stump]

I fear for your ability to complete this a bit xD

On a laptop

Back when I played on one it kinda struggled. Pretty old now I guess

[vagrant anchor]

ill use dupebox mod

will save a lot of ups

[languid stump]

Oh ok

[vagrant anchor]

which is also why my main worry is logistics

[mossy saddle]

Time to also buy an i7 14th gen!

[vagrant anchor]

amd better and cheaper

[languid stump]

What’s the worry with logistics?

[vagrant anchor]

ill have so many trains and stuff its gonna get a bit laggy

science costs are quite ridiculous

since the processing cost isnt much

[mossy saddle]

You can do it froggy!!!

I believe in youu

You can't give up!

[vagrant anchor]

i should be fine

just gotta do some testing of different logistics options

[languid stump]

A little testing, but where you can, just remove those logistics entirely

Make stuff where it’s consumed, compress your ore to ingot asap, etc

[vagrant anchor]

yep, ofc

[mossy saddle]

How much SPM are you making rn frogger

[vagrant anchor]

i have been waiting for red belts to double to 3.6k

also waiting for research for blue science

bots probably 50h

[mossy saddle]

Yeah I'm producting loads of reds atm

Just slowly but surely

[vagrant anchor]

this setup hovers between 0.4-0.5ms and seems to be pretty good

ill measure its ticks between wagons and see how 1-2 and larger trains compare

seems to be around 1 wagon per second with these very fast trains

seems like the elevator is just limited to this speed either way

seems to use around 0.5ms on average just guesstimating

not bad for 60 wagons per minute on a laptop tbh

granted its a very fast train

the avg shld be around 0.5-0.6, which is acceptable

80 ticks per 1-2 train, with around 0.65 average im guessing

with 1-1s its closer to around maybe 0.5, which would make 1-1s and 1-2s pretty close in terms of ups per wagon, though 1-2s will be less even than 1-1s

1-2s still win if its for average wagon per performance i think, 2.3 wagons per ms compared to 2 wagons per ms for 1-1s

since 1-2s win because of better locomotive-wagon ratio ill test 1-3s

1-3s hover around 0.7ms, with around 1.76 wagons per second, and is thus around 2.5 wagons per ms which is somehow still better

if 1-4s are still slightly better ill go with those

with slower trains the ratios should roughly be the same, since the accel/braking ratio for those trains are the same as vanilla ones im pretty sure

this is a bit weird... 1-4s also hover around 0.7ms

perhaps the script's time complexity depends on both the train length and train speed?

slower trains seem to pass through with less ups impact, which makes sense i guess

[mossy saddle]

Is 0.5ms that noticable? I'm like a sloth

Isn't that on your laptop 60/m

And can't you add more of those?

[vagrant anchor]

1-4s are 1.94 wagons/second, and are thus around 2.77 wagons per ms (though probably lower since im guessing the 0.7)

[vagrant anchor]

you have 16.6ms to work with if you want 60ups

realistically less

since theres still lua garbage incremental

and a bunch of other stuff

so realistically maybe around 14ms

0.5 is quite a good bit of that

especially considering this is modded fast trains

With vanilla trains which are 4x slower, assuming the ratio of accel:braking power is roughly the same, it'll be at least quadruple the ups impact for the same throughput

From what I'm seeing 1-4s should be a nice number

[mossy saddle]

With mods it's possible

Not sure about your PC tho

[vagrant anchor]

i should be fine

im using that mod, and with the 320 slot wagons i should have enough throughput

maybe itll take like 1ms with those wagons being full, but isnt too big of a worry

do you know of any mod that takes the average of all the time usage elements?

since guessing it based on how the numbers look really isnt accurate

im fairly confident that 1-4s would be a pretty nice train for this though

also works well with designs

elevator doesnt seem as bad as ive heard it to be either, probably due to the optimisations that earendel has done in recent versions

[mossy saddle]

I don't think I know a mod I know about the rate calculator but doesn't work with trains probably

[vagrant anchor]

rate calculator is for checking your factory throughput iirc

not a ups profiling tool

[mossy saddle]

Can you search Ups in the mods?

Or you can use the modded channel maybe there are people that know something

I'm not sure it exists though

[quiet sandal]

Yes, I was saying those are why production science (purple) is so important

[vagrant anchor]

purple is called production science?

man my brain doesnt work anymore

[quiet sandal]

Yellow is utility

[mossy saddle]

Beautiful

[vagrant anchor]

ah

my brain is broken

good to know

[mossy saddle]

I don't have a brain don't worry

[steep spindle]

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmass-steel-production-v0-0mn1hyet6n9c1.jpeg%3Fs%3D4de8e785fde1ede9de1686a195c80a93c1cda680

This looks like something I might need to do for

LOL

[languid stump]

[quiet sandal]

Disturbing lack of beacons

[steep spindle]

True

[languid stump]

im doin blue science

advanced oil incoming

[languid stump]

I dont have half the petro gas or steel needed but the buffer is so large that its been going full speed so far

probably will finish advanced oil at full speed

[steep spindle]

Nice!

[long mauve]

I dont see sushi

[steep spindle]

I just noticed this, why full belts?

[languid stump]

I was lazy and realized bots can rebuild those labs later

so only need 3 science input

adv oil!

once i connect this iron patch on the right ill only be short on red / green and can get bots upgrading that shortly

gunning for those robot built solar fields :D.

[steep spindle]

Nice!

[long mauve]

looks like a good plan!

[languid stump]

coming along!

Hmm it’s kinda cursed but I’m just gonna start my roboport grid from the blue science area I think

I can make robots up there, roboports, and big power poles

Then it can expand itself over to my mall xD

That might be dumb

[long mauve]

I would start at the mall, you can belt over half a belt of reds and whatever else you need pretty easily

[languid stump]

Yeah I suppose so

I have enough time while the researches come in to connect some oil to my mall, add some red chips there, it’s own robot frames

Yeah I may as well cause I’m gonna want more resource flow into that mall for the bots to use probably

Prob easier if self contained

[steep spindle]

I don't even have bots down, but I have roboports being made

[languid stump]

And then I can also only send the roboports south and west and then I won’t build on top of former stuff

Perfect

[long mauve]

dont cop out on something so important it would be painful later on to expand

[languid stump]

Mhm

[steep spindle]

I'm at that point where I don't want a giant roboports grid, but need something

[long mauve]

i thought you siad no robots lol

[steep spindle]

There are none in the base right now

[languid stump]

Damn

[steep spindle]

There are roboports being made, but none placed

[languid stump]

I guess you did tech nuclear

[steep spindle]

Yeah, the 100% science run is nice

Trying to see when to start

For a

Lol

[languid stump]

What’s the tank for

[steep spindle]

Running over trees

[languid stump]

Oh

[steep spindle]

[languid stump]

You don’t use your train system to get around?

[steep spindle]

I set out the 100% all science goal when I started

[steep spindle]

No, it kills throughput

[languid stump]

Wat

[steep spindle]

Next base I make will have a personal train system in play

[languid stump]

You’re just one train

[steep spindle]

Oh no no
I've been using my big ass mall train

[languid stump]

Oh lmao

‘Parking huge trains where there is no space kills throughput’ yes

I usually just keep locomotive and fuel on me and drop it onto the track and control click

Then pick it up when I get there

[long mauve]

just block train traffic, let them suffer

[steep spindle]

[languid stump]

Maybe I should not do a mega roboport grid

My bots are gonna be slow and distances huge hmm

[steep spindle]

I wouldn't

You be waiting a half hour for a belt

LOL

[long mauve]

its that or design a very complicated sushi or mall train system

[languid stump]

Pretty much yeah

I’m probably gonna go for the grid lol

[steep spindle]

I'm going to develop a mall train yard after

[languid stump]

No biters in my way, why not make roboports at ridiculous speeds. Whyyy not

[long mauve]

actually

[steep spindle]

To get and up

[long mauve]

I kinda want to make a train mall system, i have half of it setup already.. but itd be so much work

[steep spindle]

I think my struggle bus will be the rocket silo

[languid stump]

Fr

[long mauve]

1M science

[languid stump]

The rocket silo?

Oh the research yes

[steep spindle]

Science cost and the space science

[languid stump]

But other than 1M for rocket silo, you only need 300k for rocket control unit to unlock it

So if you’re not 100% ing… yeah :D.

[steep spindle]

That and 1m Space science for the last belt of the belt mod

[long mauve]

I am 100%ing :P

[languid stump]

Oh

Jeepers

[steep spindle]

Other reason I love this belt mod

[languid stump]

As if x1k isn’t enough xD

100% too

[steep spindle]

It's tech cost matches the difficulty

[long mauve]

I think I said I was planning to do a 10K spm base after/while finishing

[steep spindle]

Makes it interesting

I want to see how long infinite science takes haha

[long mauve]

no

I am turning off 1000x for infinite sciences your insane

[languid stump]

Yea lol, they’re already infinite

[steep spindle]

Because @mossy saddle And I are thinking of x1k 2.0 outta the gate and the devs were talking about something to deal with level 30 infinite science

[steep spindle]

Haha

[long mauve]

someone calculated itd take years to research level 30

[steep spindle]

Muhahaha

[long mauve]

so for you, a century

[steep spindle]

When in doubt 🧐 start blasting

[languid stump]

I wonder how many GW I should build

With solar

[long mauve]

yes

have it always running, and set up alerts when you are low on power and can build more!

[languid stump]

I guess if I drive around to my coal mines here in a minute I can just keep them for a backup 1 GW and play pretty fast and loose

Mhm an alert seems good

[long mauve]

2 alerts is what I think ill do, 1 for when accumulators hit like 5% level and the other for when its possible to build a new field

[languid stump]

These bots are gonna be so slow

I’m gonna have to build like 10k

20k

Lol

[long mauve]

yeah its gonna be fun lol, I think I went with around 60? robots per minute

[languid stump]

Nice

[long mauve]

not as bad as SE though

[languid stump]

They start out real pricey in SE yeah

But then… prod bonus happens

[long mauve]

yup :D

[languid stump]

I guess the pricey part of the bots is more all the roboports to make

I think if I just poured my red circuit, gear, steel belt from blue science to roboports I could make 2,400 per hour

[long mauve]

damn thats a ton

[languid stump]

Surely that’s way more than enough right

Maybe I should steal from blue after all

Decisions, decisions

[long mauve]

id steal it but build it at the mall

[languid stump]

They’re so far apart

[languid stump]

Mall bottom most thing, blue science is middle / top ish

[long mauve]

[languid stump]

:p

[long mauve]

that is pretty far

[languid stump]

Yeah ima just build fresh in my mall I think

And then never extend roboports the way of the current base

Except the red / green science I want to upgrade

indecision

[long mauve]

heres my suggestion then knowing the distance: build the mall its own red circuits, then if its inadequate run a long belt

[languid stump]

Seems like the move

Suppose I have to start with a long oil pipeline

[long mauve]

those can be easier than belts if you dont need power

[languid stump]

Yeah I’ve had to make a few already but I may have to scout for another close oil source for it

I have a literal single well I could try but idk

[long mauve]

a single well lmao

thats probably not worth the time, you could just convert it to power

[languid stump]

Oh that’s a cool idea

[long mauve]

I did it after your advice on solid fuel :D got a consistent free 100 mw

[languid stump]

In a way I maybe ought to just skip the solar yeah

It’s a fair bit of tech…

Idk

[long mauve]

hm

you did say your patches are on 600% richness..

[languid stump]

Mhm, I probably could just grab more coal and oil fields as I’ve done fairly easily

But idk I’m trying to use beacons lol

[long mauve]

I think it was 4500%~ oil for 100 mw with speed mods

yeah beacons id go solar, its not to much you can afk a bit and grab more ore patches and preplan for purple

[languid stump]

Solar it is

I’m practically done with the panels too

Then it’s just 100k substations and 200k accum

I think

Not the worst detour

[long mauve]

that ratio seems off

[languid stump]

Oh I was talking science cost

[long mauve]

ah ok

yeah I still have to do atleast 1 of those researches, didnt get any time to hop on yesterday

[languid stump]

You’re about to go solar as well?

[long mauve]

probably

I think i want to design new prints though, a 128x128 solar and a 64x64 and a 32x32 and a straight rail print

just to go with my grid aligned rails

im wondering if I can cheat my way in and do 4 roboports for a tilable 128x128 print

[languid stump]

Hmm

4 ports for that space ?

Like do some diagonal or something?

[long mauve]

yeah something like that, so I dont waste a lot of resources on roboports

[languid stump]

Hmmm if there was ever a game to waste resources on roboports it might be this one :p

[long mauve]

yeah but i want the challenge lol

[languid stump]

Fair enough

Might be good for ups

Down the line

[long mauve]

probably yeah

theres gonna be just enough room to waste substations this is gonna be weird

I could also just do 96x96 3 chunks

[languid stump]

I think that’s what I would use if I went for trains here

I just don’t see it saving a ton of time with the nature of this run

[long mauve]

yeah it wont save a lot of space but I hope it makes it up with the cool tiling part. idk

[languid stump]

I think it would save time if my goal was to 100% and then 10k spm:D.

Probably good to get this right

[long mauve]

yeah and if its done good I can keep it for future games :D

just a quick checklist:
32x32
64x64
96x96
96x96 with straight rails in the middle
32x32 with rails in the middle

[languid stump]

chunky

[languid stump]

I need to build more labs

[mossy saddle]

[languid stump]

~3 hour to construction bots

but enough for today

[steep spindle]

Hehe 😂

We gonna blast it!

[mossy saddle]

we'll beat factorio once and forall!

pretty sure people see us as the insane in the factorio discord

[steep spindle]

I mean, I can't wait to see the thousands of rocket silos due to it being in

[mossy saddle]

xD it's gonna be so much fun!

let the rocket army spawn!

[steep spindle]

only reason I might end up doing robots is for mining or Logistics chests

[mossy saddle]

xD I think you'd love bobs inserters ggs

[steep spindle]

🤔

about outta things to do for

[languid stump]

Get your purple going gg :p

[steep spindle]

im trying 😢

[mossy saddle]

it's time!

[languid stump]

Can you start it slow?

[steep spindle]

I'ma get the 180spm setup to go yeah

might need to look into these soon too 😦

[languid stump]

Yep I’ve got those in my research list

Right after solar and bots I’m getting prod2

[steep spindle]

just getting the whole thing setup

cause I'm thinking of the waterfall tech for the science

dont know yet

now the question is....

do I just yeet a 1k/m bp

and then get beacons and blast it

waterfall teching this would require this route

so I'm going to see what lanes I have bluerpint that and move it

[mossy saddle]

you need it 4x then x)x

[steep spindle]

gonna get beacons then redesign

because needing 50k/m steel is a fucking nightmare

[mossy saddle]

how many blues is that?

[steep spindle]

18.4

so that not beaconed i

is

☠️

[mossy saddle]

how much is it beaconed?

[steep spindle]

unknown haha

[mossy saddle]

long way from beacons proob xd

[steep spindle]

gonna just do a flat 900/m route

till beacons

[mossy saddle]

900/m are you sure that's enough?

isn't it like 200K?

[steep spindle]

becaons is 75k

and the beacon itself is cheap

also will allow me to work on or

[steep spindle]

not that bad of a scale

[vagrant anchor]

@mossy saddle Ive probably waited 2 hours at this point to make enough red belts while making like 200 per minute lol

This is painful

I should probably just timewarp a little

After getting blue science up I'll probably make a belt supplied wagon mall

[mossy saddle]

are you literally making 200 belts a min? xD

[mossy saddle]

fits likea glove

[steep spindle]

only a 900/m build but its better than 0

[mossy saddle]

you're gonna have to get more iron depots

[steep spindle]

true

just trying to get to beacons

then the smelter will be a blaster

[mossy saddle]

100m

2hrs danm

damn

will more be like hour n half

[steep spindle]

so far not bad

[mossy saddle]

nice clean lines

[vagrant anchor]

Yes...

One full belt of gear input

[steep spindle]

there is to smash all these belts

[mossy saddle]

I'm doing half a belt

[vagrant anchor]

I probably need like 15k more belts lol

[mossy saddle]

you don't have trains yet?

[vagrant anchor]

Not using them yet, and yeah don't have the research yet

I'm straight beelining blue so I can get that set up asap

I'll probably need to get like 2GW more power for blue science though... It's such a pain

[elder rover]

My game has pretty much halted as I havent design a good green science blueprint yet lol

im trying to put everything into it so i only ened to drop off ore

[vagrant anchor]

just use factory planner to calculate the ratios

and just build it

[elder rover]

the ratios are easy

[vagrant anchor]

doesnt have to look nice or anything

[elder rover]

yes it does

[vagrant anchor]

just gotta work

[elder rover]

lol

it has to be compact and tilable

😛

and also the belting is tough

[vagrant anchor]

tilable is easy

compact you can just use weaving

[elder rover]

"just use weaving"

and this is only for iron

this was the last iteration i was working on

then i realzied i forgot space for pwoer poles

and quit lol

[steep spindle]

I went mad again

[elder rover]

Madlad

[vagrant anchor]

theres no need to balancer

make your production based on having belts of input

[steep spindle]

this game is like crack

[mossy saddle]

you're a madman with the unders

jundies

[long mauve]

even worse is that they arent fulled expanded out

[steep spindle]

yeah that was tilting

rest of them are tho

[long mauve]

ah nice then

[mossy saddle]

xD it's sad that they aren't all in line and like one off

[steep spindle]

yeah one sec, its kinda cool if you see the whole phto

[mossy saddle]

ooh damn you're right

doesn't undergrounds make rss move slower?

[steep spindle]

rss?

[mossy saddle]

resources

iron copper ore and the other thingies

[steep spindle]

all show 45/s?

[mossy saddle]

yeah but if you look at a blancer it seems slower when like one side goes underground

[steep spindle]

thats an illusion

MALDING

[mossy saddle]

xD all hand created by the one and only

[steep spindle]

close enough

when you smartly make the science trains ahead of time

[mossy saddle]

its very smart nice job

[steep spindle]

appreciated!

ok brain slow down...

lmao

SOON!

[mossy saddle]

you can do it!

[vagrant anchor]

should be very fast research

33 hours in im still waiting for red belts lmao

by the time i have enough the research for blue science is proabably gonna be done

[elder rover]

i need to put 11 iron belts into 4 inpuits though

and 2 copper belts into iirc 5 inputs

[vagrant anchor]

Why are your inputs so weird

[elder rover]

ratios

[vagrant anchor]

Vanilla ratios are pretty nice

[elder rover]

im trying to not have waste

[vagrant anchor]

Waste doesn't exactly matter

[vagrant anchor]

You can feed a full belt into something that takes slightly less than that

[vagrant anchor]

Yeah but why can't you feed full belts of stuff with this

Or at worst just half belts

[elder rover]

i am

[vagrant anchor]

You can make it 1.8k and everything will be a nice full belt

[elder rover]

make what 1.8k?

[vagrant anchor]

Green science spm

[elder rover]

900spm is one full yellow belt

i dont have reds, wont for atleast 100 hours

lol

im jsut designing by yellow belt setup

once i get red belts i will re do all of my science

completely new blueprints

So i have a couple goals/rules for this run, 1000x, biters enabled, vanilla progression (so to make a rocket is the same production line as vanilla) but not vanilla totally, and try to get 0 waste, so everything is perfect ratio. So, for example, in this blueprint, I have 5 and a half furnace stacks, each one does a full belt and i have 30 miners per (and half for the half) to make full belts. They bring in ore and not one peice is wasted and out comes sceince packs. Eventually I will have trains and each sceince station will just have an ore drop off and a science pick up. In addition I like to make things compact as I can and easily placeable.

the problem im mostly facing (and this is fun, its what i like solving) is how to route all that ore through the intermediate products and not make it a complete and utter mess and not waste

this isnt the most updated image of the blueprint, i actually have one thats a little better but i forgot spots for pwoer poles lol

i am realizing though i can actually remove these balancers i think

because iron gears is 3 full belts

so i can just belt from the furnace stack to a set of gear machines

[mossy saddle]

those damn iron plates!

[vagrant anchor]

Do two lines

[elder rover]

a lot of this would be fixed by not trying to compress everything lol

[vagrant anchor]

You can make your production lines very long

As long as it's tilable

Really doesn't matter

Doesn't need to be tilable even

[elder rover]

yeah thats something i dont understand about factorio yet, how many of a machine do i need on a full belt to make it so that not even one item ever gets passed that line of machines, i dont know how to figure this out

[vagrant anchor]

As long as you leave room for doubling the assemblers and upgrading to red belts

[vagrant anchor]

If you really want it, leave some redundancy

[elder rover]

nah, i want it to be tilable, and for faster belts/assemblers i want to design new blueprints from scratch (cits its fun)

[vagrant anchor]

Also make sure your inserters are fast enough

[vagrant anchor]

The blueprints are the same man

It's just doubled

[elder rover]

nah, i will have elss furnaces

[vagrant anchor]

Also there's no reason to use blue asms earlygame other than for ups since pollution doesn't matter

[elder rover]

less gear machines needed

etc

the ratios change

[vagrant anchor]

Furnace stacks can just be upgraded with steel furnaces and red belts

The ratios don't change

If you do upgrade to asm2s which will eat a lot more power, you just multiply the crafting by 1.5

Just leave space to double it in line

[elder rover]

is each belt just double the previous belt tier?

[vagrant anchor]

Blue is 45/s, red 30/s, yellow 15/s

[mossy saddle]

blue is expensive though 🥲

[mossy saddle]

I went from 120 to 160 from as1 to as2

120 for yellow belts and t1 as and 160 red belts as2

[vagrant anchor]

Eh, the cost is nothing compared to the cost of later science

Rocket tech is such a big spike in cost it's pretty crazy

Same with space science

[mossy saddle]

which one are you gonna go first in space tech?

[vagrant anchor]

Vulc

Beacons are necessary

And then maybe some artillery to carry out some diplomatic actions

[mossy saddle]

whats the main item of the others?

I think I'll have issues in other worlds just because I couldn't crank it upto 600% richness

[vagrant anchor]

Trim and regenerate

Also use prod mods in miners

[mossy saddle]

trim and regenerate?

isn't that a diff mod?

[vagrant anchor]

Trimming is a feature that SE has

You get rid of the stuff on the mine chunks, and you trim the surface

After that you just rebuild that mine, that ore patch will respawn

[elder rover]

i think i get it, the ratio of gears to belt machines for green scinece, for example, does change between having t1 assemblers and yellow belts and t2 assmblers and red belts, if youre wanting to also go from 900spm to 1800spm

though the number of machines in total needed does go up

[vagrant anchor]

Just double it using asm1s

[elder rover]

actually it goes done some, t2 assemblers on red belts at 1.8kspm is 280 assemblers for green science, t3 assemblers on blue belts doing 2.7k spm is 216 assemblers for green science, that seems weird

[vagrant anchor]

Asm2s just waste power

[elder rover]

thats weird lol

shouldnt green asseblers be 120?

when making a full blue belt of green science

[vagrant anchor]

Are you upgrading the belts along with the asms

Also the extra power use really isn't worth using higher tier assemblers

[steep spindle]

tomorrows log in will get teh stone brick and stone rolling

then I'll have

[elder rover]

thats why the spm is higher

the whole point is each science block produces 1 full belt

[vagrant anchor]

not using trains might have been a mistake

have already replaced all these yellows with reds and still have nowhere near enough

[quiet sandal]

Feed all those back into your red belt production

I use trains but I still need tens of thousands of belts

[vagrant anchor]

too lazy to do that lmao

i gave up on handling junk manually quite a bit ago

[quiet sandal]

That’s a lot of resources being wasted

[vagrant anchor]

i have resources

[mossy saddle]

😆 you really don't like sorting

[stark wigeon]

SE looks mental

Is that a space elevator?

[vagrant anchor]

it kinda is

yeah

[stark wigeon]

Space trains

[vagrant anchor]

sorted

[stark wigeon]

Jesus how long did that take

Im probably overesitmating tbh

Probably took like 5 minutes

[mossy saddle]

xD it's not hard if you can get one item out by pressing shift left

But has to spend those rss in his mall again!

for the wood just walk past your science assemblers easy gone

[vagrant anchor]

nah ill just leave it there

41h in, expanded to 3.6k basic/red/green

time to build blue, all the techs are already done

[mossy saddle]

26h in finally build my first train xd

[vagrant anchor]

you are pretty damn fast

[elder rover]

Even distribution, grab it all and run around pressing shift+C

[mossy saddle]

is it one belt a train?

that you can get out

[elder rover]

green science setup :D, i said screw it and allowed redundancies for the sake of speed

[stark wigeon]

Those balancers

[elder rover]

my ups goes down to 31 just pulling this blueprint out lol

[mossy saddle]

xD don't you have trains yet by now?

the belts look nice though!

[elder rover]

nah, ive not even started green science yet

i spent a good ten hours working on green science blueprints lol

i finished all red science tho lol

😄

thats all thats left

actually i also have shock turret damage

[elder rover]

oh ive not even started o the balancer feeding into the furnaces 😄

11 iron furnace stacks is 5.5 iron mines (each containing 30 miners)

one of the things im thinking of doing is jsut removing all those balancers and plopping a warehouse down

or a stationairy train car

[vagrant anchor]

You can also just not use any balancers

Will be less "efficiently" tilable but it's a lot less of a hassle

[quiet sandal]

I put train limits on my stations because I have several depots where iron ore can be dropped off, so this way my trains won't build up at one depot overflowing the waiting bays and leaving other depots empty

[elder rover]

how do you "not use balancer" but also put 11 belts of iron into 5 inputs?

[vagrant anchor]

Split it as needed

[elder rover]

i ltierally do not understand how that works

yes...split it with a balancer lol

[quiet sandal]

aw shit

[quiet sandal]

a balancer is a design, a splitter is the object

[vagrant anchor]

Doesn't need to be a balancer... Also why do you have 11 belts of iron for 900spm of green?

[elder rover]

because it requires 11 furnaces stacks of 48

to sm,elt the iron

er, 24

[vagrant anchor]

So 11 half belts of iron...

Just sideload it into full belts dude

[elder rover]

what?

[vagrant anchor]

24 long furnace stack makes half a belt

[elder rover]

yes, i have 11 of those

[vagrant anchor]

Yeah so you have 5.5 belts

[quiet sandal]

I have a slight coal issue

[elder rover]

which actually is sorted into 8 inputs i jsut recounted

[vagrant anchor]

Why did you make your production line require it to go from 5.5 to 8 in the first place then

Also, mark out how much each input needs

[elder rover]

because you need 8 line sof 10 green science asemblers

[quiet sandal]

which fluctuates based on when my lights turn on

[vagrant anchor]

Usually it'll be far nicer to go with a production line taking integer times half belt of ingredients

[vagrant anchor]

Why use 10 as the number then?

[elder rover]

i dont even know what that sentence means 😄

[vagrant anchor]

There's no need to split it based on the number of asms

[elder rover]

because thats how many 3 isnerter machines and 2 belt machines can supply

[vagrant anchor]

You could have just fed all of that stuff into a single production line that makes 1 belt of inserters and 1 belt of belts

[elder rover]

but then only like half the machines would get isnerters and belts

[vagrant anchor]

Why not combine it together to get a nicer value to work with then

[vagrant anchor]

Why would that ever happen

[elder rover]

because the machyines up the line will make science faster than it takes for inserters and belts to get down the line

so the stuff at the end is reosurce starved doing nothing

[vagrant anchor]

It won't if you don't have too many assemblers or too little input

[elder rover]

also can 15 inserters and 15 belts fit on a yellow belt?

[vagrant anchor]

Mate, yellow belt has throughput of 15/s or 900/m

It's why you went for 900spm block in the first place

[quiet sandal]

15/s is the total belt, it's 7.5 per lane

[elder rover]

so yorue jsut saying have one long as belt with 15 gear machines one logn as belt with 15 copper one long ass belt for isnerters and one long as belt for belts and then a long (120) line of green science?

[quiet sandal]

I'd recommend direct inserting the gears

for gears using yellow inserters you want 3 inputs 2 outputs

[vagrant anchor]

Exactly, you can also snake the green science if you want

[elder rover]

doesnt that leave machines gear starved?

[quiet sandal]

no

[vagrant anchor]

Also you don't need a long ass belt for copper

[quiet sandal]

inserter assemblers to gear assemblers are a 1:1 ratio

[vagrant anchor]

Why would it

[quiet sandal]

and belt assemblers to gear assemblers are a 2:1 ratio

[elder rover]

because one machine is taking from 2 gear machines

[vagrant anchor]

No?

[quiet sandal]

your current ratio is good, direct inserting will just be easier because you're limited by the belt speed for gears currently

[vagrant anchor]

He isn't

He's limited by the yellow inserter speed

[vagrant anchor]

You need more than one

[quiet sandal]

yeah

that

[vagrant anchor]

Why does the machine at the middle need 2 gear asms though

[elder rover]

i dont know lol

[vagrant anchor]

Inserter to gear assembler ratio is 1:1

[elder rover]

because you ened 4 gear machines to somehow supply 3 isnerter machines

[vagrant anchor]

You don't...

You are likely being limited by inserter speed

[languid stump]

My green science setup mk2

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/139677590393716737/1189188513997004911/image.png?ex=65a67b9b&is=6594069b&hm=def908b3c33eb764eb503ed2bdc2a063c96a8b504bc53742dad3657002cc3e2f&

[vagrant anchor]

Take a look at if the machines are working at all time

[languid stump]

I enjoyed making all the gears right after the smelting line, but I don’t think it matters all too much

[vagrant anchor]

900spm?

[languid stump]

Long Inserters are your friend btw

They’re faster than yellow ones

Just use more space and go pure long

[elder rover]

im going to go fast inserters in a bit

[quiet sandal]

@elder rover

[vagrant anchor]

You can also use 3 yellow ones and put power poles on the outside of the belts, but it's a bit annoying

[languid stump]

That works too

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/139677590393716737/1189187821093789776/image.png?ex=65a67af6&is=659405f6&hm=1ec8979be8604e2595f0c41a8c466053e27306435f21e5c0b1a60502b309a210&

Long Inserters go brrr

[vagrant anchor]

You havent redbeltified it to get 1.8k?

[languid stump]

I’m waiting for robots to do it for me

[wraith pagoda]

Hello People , so i just found this thread , whats the rules for this kinda run ? is there a limit on mods or map setup ? are we scoring on time to complete?

[vagrant anchor]

Ic

[languid stump]

X1000 science multiplier is the only thing

[vagrant anchor]

It's just a casual run

[languid stump]

No rules or competition :D.

Or limit to map settings

[vagrant anchor]

You can have any mods you want as long as it isn't just a free win I would say

[wraith pagoda]

ok , im assing bitters off?

[languid stump]

I got mine off too yeah

[vagrant anchor]

If you want to take this challenge to all non time based / biter based achievements you might want some mods to help with ups

[languid stump]

To keep them on you would probably need to adjust a number of settings to make it playable

[vagrant anchor]

You could have them on but it's a bit more of a hassle imo

[elder rover]

though i think one belt of iron wont be enough

[vagrant anchor]

Two belts of iron feeds one belt of inserters

[languid stump]

Errr

More than that homie

[vagrant anchor]

Don't make the inserters and belts together

Uh the gears for it

[elder rover]

lol...

[languid stump]

1 belt Inserter needs 2 belts of iron for gears, 1 belt of iron for plates, and 1 belt iron for green chips

And 1.5 copper for green chips

[elder rover]

oh right, forgot about green curcuits

[wraith pagoda]

righto sounds like fun , i may get started tonight , i take it the burner phase lasts a few hours of handcrafting for automation ?

[languid stump]

Automation always costs 10 red science

But getting underground and splitter takes 20k

The first grind is unlocking underground and splitter.

[wraith pagoda]

🙂 ofc it does your right Haha 20k for splitters

[vagrant anchor]

Long inserters are your friend for that stage

[elder rover]

i just hand feed iron and copper into red science production for the first 10k

[vagrant anchor]

Especially for furnace stacks

[elder rover]

20k*

[quiet sandal]

eh, not ofc, wasn't always like that :)

[vagrant anchor]

Remember to plan out your build space beforehand before having undergrounds and splitters

[quiet sandal]

you used to have to hand craft 10,000 red science to get automation 1

[vagrant anchor]

I also like to build a mall at that time since you'll be doing some huge expansion once you have logistics 1

[vagrant anchor]

Wtf

How much handcrafting time is that lol

[quiet sandal]

mmmmm

[languid stump]

Welcome to the fun @wraith pagoda :D.

[wraith pagoda]

well at least at 10k you got time to setup infastucture @languid stump TY , got to get back to work but ill be back !!

[quiet sandal]

nearly 14 hours

[vagrant anchor]

Clevlore do x1k pyanadons

[elder rover]

on diagonal ribbonworld

[wraith pagoda]

er no i like my mental heath the way it is thank you

[quiet sandal]

x1k seablock

[vagrant anchor]

With only sushi

[vagrant anchor]

That's probably even worse than x1k py

[elder rover]

with only 1 science lab

[vagrant anchor]

Science multis don't work well with mods that give you starting items that need to be used carefully

[elder rover]

you might get belts before the heat death of the universe

[vagrant anchor]

Aka seablock and nullius

[quiet sandal]

at the start yeah

but py quickly becomes far harder than seablock

[vagrant anchor]

The start gonna be like 90% of the igt

[elder rover]

or jsut do vanilla 1kx sceicne 1kx resource cost

[quiet sandal]

seablock is mostly just grinding for resources

[vagrant anchor]

Just waiting and waiting and waiting

[vagrant anchor]

Are you ok

What has your computer done to you to deserve this treatment

[elder rover]

with that mod that makes items fall off belts if they cant go anywhere lol

[languid stump]

I did Seablock 100x once

I got green science automated