Train help needed.

[split rivet]

so a couple of days ago I made train stations for my smelters. it worked fine until I built another stop train station on the same railway/rail lines. So the problem is that I have to do some waiting conditions to WORK BOTH OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME. I came up with a time past 30 seconds wait condition for 2nd train stop and that train would move on to the final station (1st train station) and the waiting condition is empty cargo. It's working but it is very inefficient. The reason is given in the SS I took. I was wondering if there is any circuit network system that would help as I'm very new to the game. Thanks

idk if the picture is clear enough

if anyone willing to help, id post a clear zoomed in ss

[strange loom]

The problem is you built the stations in line with each other and it sounds like they are both on the main line

[split rivet]

yes that was my original idea

[harsh barn]

I think you should use different rails for different stations.

[split rivet]

and i wanted to move on with that

[split rivet]

too late now im afraid

like is there any sort of wait conditions to perfectly time it?

[harsh barn]

Ahh..

Ok

U have bots?

[split rivet]

yes

[strange loom]

Yea, no room for a rebuild
Unless you feel like pulling up a lot more than just the rails

[harsh barn]

I would do a big disassembling project, and make room

Move stuff further away.

Cause at least you have bots.

[split rivet]

ahh okay

[strange loom]

You also want a chest between your wagon and your belts, that could help with flow, the trains would unload much faster

[split rivet]

great idea

[strange loom]

You bring in 8k ore and only 2 blue belts out, thats 89 seconds at full speed

[split rivet]

but again i have to do the disassembling project

[split rivet]

not exactly

wait

let me give you a proper demonstration

[strange loom]

At least you could pull up some of the power to the south, looks like it’s tiled all the way down so moving a couple rows to the other side shouldn’t be too big a job

[strange loom]

With your wait condition yes it’s only 30 but then it’s not totally empty

[split rivet]

here have a look

so the idea was that two trains would come and supple two different ores as of now

but yeah as yo mentioned

30secs isnt enough

so i need help about that

so i can perfectly time it out

[strange loom]

I am unsure if there’s a way to set it up where the iron train waits at a stop further back in a stacker or waiting area to let the copper train pass then go so they arrive in order

[split rivet]

yes yes

that

i think circuit waiting conditions is needed here

like the train stop would send a signal when a train is stopped

but as i said im very new to circuit networks

lmao almost 100h on this save but still dont know shit about circuit networks

[strange loom]

What i would do
To the east of your screen shot, after the stacker where the ore rail turns south, double that so there’s two south bound lanes, on one of them put a station, that station is for your iron ore trains, with that station to the copper ore unloading station.
On the copper unloading have it read the train, then in the schedules of the iron ore trains, add that station
From there I’m not sure how you would green light just one train to go and hold the other iron trains

I’m 5k hours in the game, i cant do anything other than limit inserters to not over fill chests

Circuits are black magic

[split rivet]

al thanks

id talk to more professionals if i find

circuit network is confusing as hell

idk but i feel like it

[split rivet]

il try to follow this suggestion atleast for now

the thread is still open so i hope some pro will come n hekp me

[split rivet]

lmao i already did that ages ago

[strange loom]

Lol
I think i have an idea for the stations

[split rivet]

lessgo

W

[strange loom]

And i meant the ore goes from the wagon directly into a chest. Inserters Unload into chests way faster than on to a belt

Do the four stations for ore go copper iron copper iron?

And it’s the same on top of the furnaces too right?

Hmmm. My idea might not work, didn’t realize you had more stations up top too

[split rivet]

no, there is stone too

and will be some uraniums in the future

[strange loom]

All in-line?

[split rivet]

hmm i might expand my smelting columns so I will have less space

[split rivet]

yes..

🤣

wait i might change the uranium tracks

but stone gonna stay up in all-lines

[strange loom]

Uranium is handled very differently than the other ores

[split rivet]

yes thats why

and you wont believe me what else i did..

wait

[strange loom]

So for my idea, you’d need an in-line stacker for each station
My idea basically lines up the trains and uses a circuit condition as a “go” signal, then they all move at once and merge together in order of the stations

The stacker you have wont work with my idea
Probably

[split rivet]

this is my entire flued mall

[strange loom]

Are they ore stations named the same?

[split rivet]

nah

they are named different

naming is a factor?

how does naming help here

[strange loom]

Just fluids up top good good

Having them be different helps my idea actually

[split rivet]

alr cool

let me re-read the things youve said

[strange loom]

After seeing the top half, i bet it would be much easier just moving your solar and building a train yard where it currently is.
Your base is a bit of a mess no offence

[split rivet]

btw another thing, it doesn't have any relation with trains. So about flued trains, some of the flued wagons fill up/empties at different speed

any tips about that?

[split rivet]

its my first ever world cmon

[strange loom]

Only 3 pumps can fit on a wagon
Fluid dynamics are wonky at best. I use one tank and one pump per wagon. It empties in like 2.2 seconds. Then a pump out of the tank to storage

[strange loom]

It’s a lot better than my first world was that for sure

[split rivet]

alr

i just have to remove some of the pumps

im using 6 pumps per wagons 😂

thought it would be faster

[strange loom]

And not have pipe on the other side of the pumps. A pipe only holds 100 fluid

[strange loom]

Define “expanding” in this context

[split rivet]

can you see the free spaces beside the smelting columns?

in those free spaces there will be more smelting columns

[strange loom]

More? Or the ones that are there will be longer?

[split rivet]

omg you must have great pair of eyes

i cant even see it from the ss

[split rivet]

yes the smelting columns will be longer

and im using hiladar belts for it

because the blue belt isnt enough for that

[strange loom]

Ah, i thought they were just normal blue belts and was going to say longer isn’t the way to go

[split rivet]

haha i figured iit out when expanding it to the size now

[strange loom]

How fast are they?
You’re currently running 104? furnaces i think i counted

The next question is, are the stack inserters pulling from the chests fast enough

[split rivet]

wait

let me give you the schedule of trains in the lower part/station

we will move on that later

answering your question i mean

here

so is your idea related to this?

[strange loom]

Partially
Grand station ore 2 will have to just not be there. That’s a super problematic spot. And moving all the belts will leave room to fix the oil trains. Which is a separate issue to the bottom half

[split rivet]

removing it will make it a lot slower right?

[strange loom]

Not if you rebuild it else where

[split rivet]

hmph..

[strange loom]

You’ve built yourself into a very small corner
The better/easier option would be rebuilding with more room
I’m trying to help keep it the way it is but it’s rough

[split rivet]

alr i can do it

but yk

i wanted to keep it my way

to be unique

and all that

[strange loom]

I’m not saying build it different
You can keep doing what you are doing, you just need more room either way

[split rivet]

alrighr

but still no circuit experrts showed up

where are they

[strange loom]

Not everyone checks every channel
Maybe link this thread into the #train-help or #combinators

[split rivet]

alr thanks

[strange loom]

I’m on mobile and have a button in the top right corner

Not sure where it is on desktop though but that’s what it looks like

[woeful verge]

What is still needed here?

Many messages make long thread 🙂

[split rivet]

omg thanks

i got it

[woeful verge]

idk what was solved so far lol

[split rivet]

yeah nothing really worked out

but i learnt many things

[strange loom]

Nothing yet
They have in-line stations and need a way to que trains in the station order

[woeful verge]

Ah, got it

[strange loom]

Also, very limited build space

[woeful verge]

Theoretically, you could add an additional stop to the train that's supposed to go in 2nd, and have a signal ahead of it locked red until there is a train in the station further ahead. But idk how to actually wire that

But that extra station would have to be on a side rail that the train ahead wouldn't need to go through

Copper needs to enter 1st
Iron needs to enter 2nd

Add extra station behind the dropoff stations that is off the main line that the Iron train must stop at before continuing on to its unload station
Wire a signal in front of that wait station to be red by default, and unlock when there is a train in the Copper station

Iron can arrive first or second, doesn't matter.
If Iron arrives first, it will wait at the wait station
If Iron arrives second, it will stop at wait station for a moment and pass through to unload station
Either way, line stays clear for Copper to arrive at its unload station

[split rivet]

ahh okay

have to read it again n again

because not an expert when it comes to circuit networks

[strange loom]

There’s 4 stations

[woeful verge]

Oh, idk how to even program what I suggested. I just know that the logic exists

[woeful verge]

Wait, 4 stations? What are they? I thought I just saw the Copper and Iron ones

[strange loom]

Tho i don’t know if there’s anything coming out of ore collector 3/4

[strange loom]

You can see them here

4 on top of the smelter array, 4 under it

[woeful verge]

Ok then, so same logic but applied to 3 wait stations

[analog hearth]

First thing I'd do is have the trains unload into chests and then wire up all the chests so a train only goes to the station when there's enough room to fully unload the train. Then you can have empty cargo conditions to leave and the train will get max efficiency unloading. Make sure all the unloading stations have a train limit of 1 if there's space for the cargo and 0 if there's not

[split rivet]

yes so the idea is to have the same thing just again (unloading design)

[analog hearth]

you could also consider having all the unloading stations taking any train and filtering the ore with splitters instead of having separate stations for each ore

would need some circuit logic to ensure no back ups on one ore when another is starving

[strange loom]

No room for chests at the trains atm

[strange loom]

There are buffer chests at the head of each furnace column

[analog hearth]

there is absolutely room for chests

with a little belt finagling

[split rivet]

what is even a belt finagling

[strange loom]

Finagle: to obtain (something) by devious or dishonest means
In this case devious

[strange loom]

Maybe, modded belts are in play

[analog hearth]

tbh I'm not sure what a lot of the belt stuff is supposed to accomplish

lots of weird side loads

but both copper belts can be routed south of the iron station if needed

[strange loom]

It’s their first map

[analog hearth]

right, but I'm not seeing a need to preserve the current belt configuration

simplifying it makes room for buffer chests

which allow station controls based on ore level

[woeful verge]

Yeah, current belt setup is just forcing the rear wagon to unload last. Instead of all unloading concurrently

If you want the trains to all show up and load/unload at the same time, you'll want to go with the wait stations. But that may starve a certain line of belts.
If you want the trains to just show up when they're full and unload as much as they can then leave, you'll want to just add a wait time on the schedule. But then you won't have concurrent train arrivals.

I don't think you're going to be able to get the trains to all show up together and load/unload together, without taking the risk of either starving a line or having one back up

[analog hearth]

(If you really want to simplify, you're only getting 2 blue belts out, so you only need like 8 stack inserters for the entire train to get that, you could go down to 2 inserters per wagon)

[strange loom]

Modded belts remember, they are way faster than the regular 45/s

[analog hearth]

oh, well then it's still possible to do 6 inserters per wagon, just more of a pain

regardless, if you can get trains to only show up when they can dump their full load everything basically solves itself. Sure, the copper train might wait behind the iron train, but it'll be only for a few seconds

you get a constant cycling of trains, which is what's important, to avoid clogging the rail

[strange loom]

I’ll be honest, i saw the spaghetti, went ‘nah’, then tried to solve without thinking about the belts too much

[split rivet]

and about buffer chests, i have logistic robots but they are not that fast

[analog hearth]

not the buffer chest item, steel chests that the train unloads into

that make a buffer between the train and the belts

[split rivet]

wait i can jjust make more logistic robots right?

[strange loom]

In this case I’m not talking about

[analog hearth]

Yes, you could use bots

[split rivet]

ahhh lmao

im soo new

[analog hearth]

you would need a lot of bots and roboports though

[strange loom]

Like a lot a lot

[woeful verge]

And you don't have room for the roboports you would need 🙂

[strange loom]

They would. All the belt work between train and furnace column could go if switched completely to bots

[woeful verge]

ok, that's true

[split rivet]

right

and its getting late here so i might.might not reply

so please dont leave the thread

[strange loom]

I too should be sleeping tbh

[split rivet]

gn

[strange loom]

I said should. Doesn’t mean I’m going anywhere yet

[split rivet]

Nah i just wished everyone goodnight kald

Dont get the wrong thing!

[strange loom]

Oh i see. Np

[split rivet]

I am back at it, so how do you wire stuffs?

Another thing kald, can you show me your unload designs or

Optimal designs that could help in this case

[strange loom]

my designs arent necessarily "optimal"

[split rivet]

Just show it

Bet its a lot better than mine

[strange loom]

can also do this but it doesnt output the full 4 belts

[split rivet]

So you use both sides of railways

Thats much more efficient

[strange loom]

with blue belts and max inserter capacity it can do 3.8 blue belts of material

ye - if one side of the rail can get you X amount then both sides would get you 2X amount

[split rivet]

Im taking this one

And wrong

I dont have 4 belts outputs

I have 4 belts that are carrying two different ores each

So it will help

[strange loom]

youre going to need quite a bit of space for it
these are 14x6 minimum

[split rivet]

Lets see

Im doing this in a different save

So no harms doing it

[split rivet]

Is this per wagon?

I have 4 wagon and 1 locomotive train system

[strange loom]

yea

per wagon

[split rivet]

Alr

[strange loom]

and the red wire isnt needed - im using that for dynamic train limits

[split rivet]

kald have a look

am i wasting its potential?

or this is good enough

its keeping up from my POV

[strange loom]

since you are going down to two belts its fine
the trains will unload unevenly tho - the last wagon will be empty first, then the third wagon and so on

[split rivet]

is it better than mine?

wdyt

should i use it instead

idk

[strange loom]

tbh i dont think there will be much difference since you only need 2 belts worth of material

[split rivet]

ahhh okay

[strange loom]

the design i use is to unload real fast to get the train out again because i have my stations setup very differently than you

"optimal" is very situational in factorio
what is "best" heavily depends on where and how you are using it

[split rivet]

Already done building

Now what about the queue system

[strange loom]

4 stations yea?

[split rivet]

yeah

[strange loom]

copper then iron then what then what

[split rivet]

same thing again

but thos will be different belts

so dont worry about it

[strange loom]

are you opposed to moving some of the power buildings?

[split rivet]

can you specify some

[strange loom]

the top steam engine and everything inline to the left and right would be all

having this between each station would eliminate the need for any circuits and allow any train to get in and out without having to wait for other trains to move

[split rivet]

is it supportive for 4 wagons and 1 train?

[strange loom]

ye

[split rivet]

and i can remove those engines and solar panels

thats actually briliant

but what about the top one

i cant remove my fluid mall

or furnaces

[strange loom]

if you can afford more space between stations, this would be even better

[split rivet]

no worries i can afford it

its mostly empty downwards

[strange loom]

with your top one i think you limit to 3 stations and do just fluids - the extra copper you have up there is very in the way 😛

[split rivet]

ahh okay

I have thought about double headed train and make separate railways

maybe you are right

top one is only for fluids

and bottom one for ores

[strange loom]

you cant move the top rail at all can you

[split rivet]

yes i cant

its so fixed

[strange loom]

sadness - theres not enough room for that bypass up there by a single tile

[split rivet]

alr thanks

lets wait for 1-2 days

before i finalize your decision

[strange loom]

aight
and its your decision, these are just my suggestions

[split rivet]

thanks again kald

i linked it to combinators channel