FFF Speculations

[pale pumice]

Belts in the foundry makes some kind of sense, I suppose, but foundry in the foundry just seems like weird placing for such a craft.

The foundry is a bulk crafting machine of sorts, so it seems weird that it makes a bunch of intermediates, belts and ... foundries?!

[pure siren]

Just wait until the pineapple crafter is revealed.

[bold shard]

to make it even stranger, does its base 50% productivity bonus apply to foundries making foundries?

[pale pumice]

That's kinda my point

[pale pumice]

Hopefully this friday

[raven bridge]

Yes.

I specifically asked if the 50% prod applies to belts etc that don't usually get prod, and JG said it does.

It also makes big miners

[slender glen]

now i regret that

[raven bridge]

Oh no he's on to us

[pure siren]

That means Vulcanus will primarily make Foundries, Big Drills and [redacted] belts for export.

[raven bridge]

I took it with a grain of salt though

[pure siren]

metallurgist science is only an afterthought

[raven bridge]

We still don't 100% know if "exclusive recipes" means it has to be made on that planet, or just requires items from that planet

[pure siren]

what else should it mean

[raven bridge]

It could mean requiring tungsten etc

Then again, why don't we see tungsten plate/steel/carbide on the list

[pure siren]

so we can craft Foundry exclusive recipes in ASMs if we want to?

[raven bridge]

exclusive recipes, not foundry exclusive recipes

[pure siren]

ah true, the foundry doesn't have exclusive recipes

[pure siren]

requiring tungsten is not the same as Vulcanus exclusive

can export tungsten

[raven bridge]

We'll have to wait and see

[pure siren]

I just noticed "Robot energy usage" in the Vulcanus tooltip.
Fulgora definitely has that higher than 1 with all the wind there.

[raven bridge]

Or less, with all the static energy

[pure siren]

Have you ever tried to charge your phone in a Microwave? Doesn't exactly work.

[raven bridge]

I charged a sliced grape in the microwave. Does some pretty things

[bold shard]

if thats indeed true, thats substantial

[raven bridge]

If it's true, it reduces the price of all belts substantially, as it's on all 4 steps

[desert lake]

Which I think was a great decision

Pretty much all other machines get quality loops

And this way, belts get something new to match

Though... A little contrary to your point, I would kind of prefer if the foundry let us make belts without upgrading previous belts

Like, just casting them directly from molten metal

I think it would be convenient for lategame

[raven bridge]

Factorio vanilla is about telescoping recipes

Actually most mods also employ telescopic recipes. The only big departures are IR and I think Py

[desert lake]

Meanwhile AAI makes them all extra telescopic

[raven bridge]

That said, power poles aren't telescopic, but they each have their own use, and not a direct upgrade.

[desert lake]

Except small power poles

They just suck

And you can't even burn them anymore

[raven bridge]

You can recycle them back to wood 🙂

[desert lake]

Oh right! That's actually great, I was just thinking about how I have too little wood!

I could always use more wood!

Especially at this stage of the game. Everyone knows burner power is essential to setting up a new base on another planet

[raven bridge]

IR mods get away with non-telescopic recipes because it also has a recycler. That said, IR recycler returns ~75% of the raw resources as scrap rather than 25%

[small bear]

I hope there’s more use of heat pipes

will they add underground heat pipes?

oh, and heat pumps!

certain recipes/machines produce/consume heat and only work within specific temperature ranges

[pale pumice]

Say, what's the default heat of a heat pipe when placed?

It isn't 0c is it?

[desert lake]

On Aquilo, you need to run heat pipes everywhere to keep your factory from freezing over

Imagine that...

[elder raptor]

probably 25c, which is the default water temp iirc

[late venture]

15, not 25

[elder raptor]

close enough

[late venture]

Varying the default fluid temperature per planet, even if it barely makes a difference, would be a neat touch though

[bold shard]

definitely

[late venture]

It would mean boilers use less water on hotter planets too

[pale pumice]

Wait, you sure?

[late venture]

Yes

I once found a bug messing with that: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=104670&p=579466#p579466
:P

[pale pumice]

That's... so not how that should work

the power consumption should decrease

[late venture]

Ah, no, I had it the wrong way round. It would use more water

The energy consumption of the boiler is set, it would be heating more units of water less

[pale pumice]

that makes sense

[elfin zenith]

Because yes.

[raven bridge]

I envision something similar to FrostPunk

[small bear]

If we will have lightning rods to protect things from lightning in range, it’s possible we also get heat towers to prevent things in range frozen from blizzards

[rocky plover]

More likely heat pipes. They like reusing items

[small bear]

its more like reusing lightning rods mechanics from
It may feel too messy if assemblers suddenly need heat pipes to work

[desert lake]

Not heat pipes plugged in, just nearby

[iron venture]

I would much prefer plugged in heat pipes to nearby heat pipes

we already have power poles, and now possibly the lightning rod, we don't need the same mechanic again

I suspect the lightning rod will be the main source of power on fulgora, since solar will need lightning rods to protect the panels anyway and it seems water isn't easily accessible

[candid pawn]

i wonder if the solution to lighting will just be a grid of rods

[bold shard]

or it'll take the SE beacon approach and have one cover a big area

[pale pumice]

perhaps the rods we can make are a lot better than the ones we can find

[deft mauve]

Fulgora looks waterless

Only fluids is crude oils

so I conclude

[hoary timber]

I think transporting in water is the most likely method.

[pure siren]

just use oil as cooling agent in your reactors
what could go wrong?

[hoary timber]

Lol

There might be other coolant fluids.

Sonwthing like bigger reactors/extreme reactors in minecraft uses that mechanic.

[desert lake]

I feel like making any single planet fully waterless is not something they'll ever do

Making a planet completely 100% reliant on an import doesn't seem to line up with the design philosohpy they've talked about so far

Especially if the import in question is water 😭

And besides, if they wanted to do a waterless planet... they could've just made it vulcanus

And they didn't

[raven bridge]

Importing water is easy though. You can get water in space

[desert lake]

And to get it from space you'd need a landing pad

Wait why did I say that where was I even going with that

Nevermind

Anyway I don't believe it, and I predict fulogra will have a relatively simple water source

The acid purification steam condensation method of vulcanus will IMO be the most complicated water production ever gets in this game

Fulgora will (say it with me now) either have pumpable water wells, or a method to get water from tar sand

I would consider ice ore an option as well, but I feel like they're saving that for aquilo so it's less likely

[deft lake]

Wait what?

[elder raptor]

We know Aquilo (final planet) cannot function on its own, and needs some level of import

[desert lake]

Really

Oh my, that's quite interesting

[deft mauve]

where is written

[elder raptor]

somewhere in this discord

[deft mauve]

Ok i thinking was ff

[elder raptor]

can't quite find it, but the devs did say you could get softlocked on the final planet if everything dies

aka you can't start from scratch and get a rocket without external help

[topaz wing]

That does make it interesting, you need to make the last science using what you find on Aquilo, but it doesn't have all the resources you need so you make proper space logistic routes between all planets to finish the game

[small bear]

my guess is that u need to import uranium for power

[deft mauve]

so it will be resource-intensive

Hungry like dragon

[rugged onyx]

So setting up a strong logistics route is going to be key

[hoary timber]

That will bite them in the bum. People will complain.

[elder raptor]

why would they?

[hoary timber]

Getting softlocked at final planet.

That would piss people off.

[elder raptor]

you can only get softlocked if you have no materials, you don't have a base running, and every other planet has their bases run over

it won't happen if you're even moderately careful

you have 4 other planets before you get there

they very specifically did not put it as an earlier planet for that reason

[hoary timber]

Oh ok it sounded like if just one planet was destroyed 😉

[elder raptor]

the logistics puzzle here is not "you can softlock, lolsob", it's "you now need to import materials from other planets to be able to make a rocket"

[hoary timber]

Nah i get that.

Just tge way it was worded.

[elder raptor]

fair

but yeah, 2.0/SA has a few more softlock possibilities

since you can deconstruct landfill, and with elevated rail, you could softlock yourself on a barren island

(you'd have to really try, though)

[hoary timber]

True i didnt think about that.

Kinda funny tbh for those ones.

[elder raptor]

yeah lol

but then again, you'd need to either have no robots anywhere (including your own inventory), or no radars/power

[hoary timber]

True.

[elder raptor]

in essence, it's the same softlock requirements for the planet

either you do it on purpose, you're exceedingly unlucky, or you planned things very poorly

[topaz wing]

It will be incredibly hard for that to happen as when you get to the final planet most people will have robot networks on every planet, allowing you to send supplies remotely. You'll only get softlocked if you have no roboports with building materials anywhere

[small bear]

u can always send rocket materials to your planet as long as u have a remotely functional base on another planet. Making Aquilo the last planet unlocked ensures that u have 4 planets that can do this job, and even if 3 of them are broken u can still make it out using the last one

[hoary timber]

I think my brain just refused to work for that 5 minutes lol

When making that comment.

[small bear]

little spidertron: no equipment grids but has built in roboports to support 10-25 robots. no weapon slots and small inventory size (20-40 slots).

unlocked by space science

[keen scaffold]

there would probably be a 'respawn at nauvis' button but otherwise i agree

[small bear]

afaik dev said u will always respawn on the last planet u were before u died

[keen scaffold]

so it is possible to get softlocked then

vvvv bad for games

[rain sonnet]

Only on the final planet and even then a lot of things would have to go wrong simultaneously

[small bear]

there are many ways to get softlocked but most of them can only achieved by trying to softlock uself

or with very poor planning and extremely bad luck

imagine u were able to progress to the last planet with zero bots in all your bases

that’s how u may softlock yourself on the last planet

[slender glen]

in 1.1 you can also get softlocked yet no one complains

[raven bridge]

Yes, use a spider to get to the middle of a lake or a cliff and tell it to go

[vocal rock]

save game more often - or have proper defense perimeter on nauvis and bots

[raven bridge]

But that's unlikely to happen unless you specifically go about it

Forgetting to bring an important item to space and dropping onto a planet naked is more likely to happen

[candid pawn]

evolution is at .99 and ur base is destroyed -- softlocked

[raven bridge]

You would probably still be smart enough to automate things on so you can bring stuff to you

[vocal rock]

if biters eats your base completely on a deathworld - you may never recover

[raven bridge]

Yes, but that's deathworld and/or very late in the game

[candid pawn]

on normal world too

the 4th planet is very late in the game, no?

[raven bridge]

0.99 evo is very late in the game

[vocal rock]

it's still softlock

[raven bridge]

Yea, the 5th planet is very late in the game, so that makes sense

[candid pawn]

if anything later game softlocks are worse than early game softlocks

[raven bridge]

But it's good the 3 middle planets are salvageable

Late game softlocks are less likely

[candid pawn]

but they represent more wasted time

[raven bridge]

It's calculation of risk * probability

Yes it's higher risk, but less probable

[bold shard]

thats part of the fun. better design your other bases properly lol

[vocal rock]

at the point of visiting 5-th planet you should have:

1. proper nauvis base, well defended and with bots (and at least one other planet with good base)
2. at least several platforms, capable of mining basic resources and/or delivering them from other places (vulcanus, nauvis, etc.)
   so it sounds like it will be hard to get softlock at fifth planet

[candid pawn]

i guess. kinda sucks when a newer player needs to throw away their factory because biters become unmagnageable. often leads to the development of restart itis

(that was in reply to 7it)

[vocal rock]

oh, and of course old trick of saving game before leaving nauvis can help too

[candid pawn]

new trick!

[bold shard]

in all fairness, I'm someone who loves deathworlds and probably have 1K+ hours on crash site scenario. perhaps others don't like playing in hell levels as much

thankfully settings can make the game as easy as you want, if thats your thing

[raven bridge]

Luckily, even at 0.99 evo, biters aren't really a problem on normal difficulty, and not much of an issue on deathworld either. (At end game tech I mean)

[vocal rock]

if your proper base was destroyed by biters - then they are obviously a problem, and chances are - they will stay that way

[raven bridge]

True, but again if you survived thus far, you probably have a good buffer zone and weapons, so they are unlikely to hit your base

Again, it's risk times probability

[vocal rock]

agree - softlock is low probability worst case scenario

[bold shard]

if you're expanding to other planets, unless you're trying to deliberately challenge yourself you'll be researching superior weaponry/defense along the way

[slender glen]

a lot of users gets locked by letting a bunch of spitters to their spawn point

[vocal rock]

actually, JG, I have a question - is any of testers/developers gets softlocked during the planet testing, and how that happened?

[raven bridge]

How late into the game?

Early game yea, but late game? Less likely

[vocal rock]

early game spitters and biters may not one-shot you, so eventually you might kill them all

but behemoth spitters - super easy

[raven bridge]

If you have near your spawn, you've dun' goofed

It means you're at late game, and you don't have good defenses

[vocal rock]

let's say whole base blackouted, there's no/not enough solar panels to recover at the day, lasers stopped shooting waves - gg

[raven bridge]

You will still have a buffer zone, and can still manually go and clear them. Yes, you can mess up enough if you try to, but it's unlikely.

In my K2 I saw a huge area that I cleared and walled suddenly had biters because I missed a spot. It took a while, but I cleared them again.

[elder raptor]

also, like. you're gonna want to make your earlier bases more resilient

[slender glen]

there were a lot of cases someone got locked because of a bugs like some resources were not generating at all or because of migrations issues. nothing really related to usual gameplay

[elder raptor]

it's whatever if it breaks but you can go back to it

and yeah, I don't see this being any issue at all

[vocal rock]

hm, so softlocking is decently hard if nobody actually softlocked in such a long time - good to know

[raven bridge]

Remember these are devs that know the goals of every item and planet

They will still try to break it, but they at least know what a building/planet is used for

[vocal rock]

data from actual game will still be more valuable than guesswork - even if the one playing is way more experienced than regular players

and I bet at least one of devs tried to go to the last planet "for testing purposes" with little to no preparation, and succeeded

[bold shard]

there might be some limitation there that inherently requires either advanced nauvis tech or tech from some of the other 3, which prevents that

such as a resource there requiring big drill, or the only viable power source comes from

or the tech to even get there in the first place (asteroids, power, etc)

[vocal rock]

agree - there should be something like t2 engine if there's any hard requirement to visit 5-th planet

other than that - little preparation might include crappiest nauvis and other planet bases, which barely satisfy the requirements and might fall to biters any moment

[bold shard]

I'm sure someone will figure it out lol

[raven bridge]

t2 engine makes sense. We saw the 2 different plumes, even if the engine itself looked the same

[keen scaffold]

how? Even if you die and have nothing you can always hand mine a few ore patches

[bold shard]

maybe he meant getting overrun by biters

[keen scaffold]

hmm so maybe if you repeatedly die at spawn against medium biters

but thats sooo specific

youd have to go out of your way to make that happen

[bold shard]

doesn't have to be medium biters, just make a lot of pollution and have weak defenses

[keen scaffold]

compared to landing on a planet with nothing on it and being stuck

[bold shard]

and if the biters destroy everything, they just kinda hang out in your base, making respawning and rekitting very hard if not impossible

[keen scaffold]

true

id be impressed if someone managed to do that though

[vocal rock]

we don't even know if there's nothing on 5-th planet - iirc there was no details from devs

[keen scaffold]

oh yeah that was all speculation

in the #1177597309572366396 chat! For once im on topic

[bold shard]

its happened on deathworld mp servers before

its easier than you think, just don't properly prioritize what to do and scale like crazy

[raven bridge]

5th planet is cold is what we assume

[vocal rock]

it happened more times than I can remember in hardcore scenarios like biter battles

[keen scaffold]

huh okay

[vocal rock]

the moment biters properly buffed - they start slapping and spawn killing like crazy

[keen scaffold]

a classic case of 'It didnt happen to me so it doesnt happen to anyone else', thats fair enough

[deft mauve]

Were other raw materials, such as titanium, mentioned in a blog?

[bold shard]

the only new ones we know of at this point are the ones like calcite and tungsten, and 3 asteroid types

[deft mauve]

Ok

[raven bridge]

No. Only tungsten and calcite

[hybrid prism]

i think aquilo is pluo

[pure siren]

not actually a planet?

[slender glen]

pluo is a nice planet name

[hybrid prism]

well aquilo is icy pluto is icy

[sweet wind]

Neptune is icy too

[hybrid prism]

mods r gonna be super awesome with space age. People gonna create some cool planets

would be cool if someone makes a solar system mod where we have each planet in our solar system along with moons and stuff

[sweet wind]

Planets seem like a really cool way of exploring ideas in a more contained manor

[slender glen]

neptune is a gas giant, good luck landing there and making it out

[sweet wind]

It's okay, rocket capacity isn't affected by gravity in space age

[hybrid prism]

engineer is a god gas giant cant stop him

[pure siren]

good luck landing there and making out
fixed it

[sweet wind]

Neptune #1 Factorio date location? 😳

[hybrid prism]

is there gonna be starship

[slender glen]

much appreciated

[desert lake]

My bet is on Uranus

Because it's more well known for being icy

[lilac arrow]

It's also a gas giant tho

[pale pumice]

That's basically the design of them. It's a way to have multiple different mechanics that would clash with each other in the game at once :)

[uncut jay]

If you want an icy planete the nearest in our system is the Europa moon

[iron venture]

people calling gas giants icy is annoying me much more than it should. It's like people thinking the sun is literally fire

[late venture]

They're made up of frozen gas, you see

[rugged onyx]

Technically we are a frozen stone planet

[pure siren]

frozen lava, no?

[rugged onyx]

And only frozen on the surface

[pure siren]

stone is already solid

[rugged onyx]

Yes.... Solid = Frozen

Stone becomes lava when hot

Or glass depending on the stone

[pure siren]

frozen stone = frozen frozen lava

[hybrid prism]

it would be cool if vulcanus had a weapon like flamethrower but lava shooter

[elfin zenith]

Day 1 of predicting pet biters.

[rugged onyx]

Biters make good pets

[raven bridge]

Good pals

[hybrid prism]

we should be able to create biter prisons to eat our polution

[raven bridge]

Biters don't eat pollution though. Nests do

[hybrid prism]

true

[elder raptor]

encircle nests in turrets so it kills biters when they spawn, but the nests absorb

and then evolution skyrockets

.... are we the baddies

(we definitely are)

[cursive cave]

I was playing k2, and decided to skip the pollution filter setup. I figured I need to spend filters or bullets on getting rid of pollution, and I need to have the setup for bullets anyways, so why bother with a second setup

[short patio]

IIRC pollution increases evolution regardless of how it's absorbed, nests absorbing pollution spawns biters but doesn't increase evolution at all. So encircling a nest with turrets does work to decrease the pollution in your base, though there's a limit on how quickly it can be absorbed

I believe this is a game balance thing to prevent death spirals. If nests absorbing pollution increases evolution then it would be easy to get stuck in a position where you can't scale your offense and defense as fast as the biters get stronger and more numerous, particularly for new players. It would discourage expanding the factory too much, you'd always wants as small a footprint as possible that still produces science and the other junk you need

[hybrid prism]

but u would be killing more biters which raises polution i believe

or not pulution

evo i mean

[short patio]

Depends on how you do it. Lasers running off solar or nuclear release no or virtually no pollution per kill

Killing biters does not raise evolution at all

[hybrid prism]

oh

[short patio]

Killing nests does, but in this scenario the nests are unharmed

[candid pawn]

you would be increasing evolution by using up bullets/electricity to kill the biters though

even if you use solar power and laser turrets, creating the pannels needed to power the laser turrets creates pollution

[rugged onyx]

So like a biter reservation

[short patio]

Very mildly, yes, you would. But I think that in nearly all cases you'd overall save pollution and resources by reducing the wear and tear on your outer walls, reducing the required strength of those walls, and reduce the size of your pollution cloud which enables you to clear a smaller overall area (and clearing an area of nests increases evolution a lot). If killing biters produces more pollution than the nests consume to make them, then yes, it's a bad idea, but I don't believe it's too hard to avoid this happening once you have blue science and some military upgrades

[sweet wind]

An Ice giant is a type of gas giant with a composition of heavier elements/molecules, more methane less molecular hydrogen. They're typically formed from water ice and gas trapped in water ice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_giant

[bold shard]

as much as it seems like we're getting some more this friday, I wouldn't put it past me for them talking about something completely different as well

[sweet wind]

Would be very disappointing though, they've already hyped up Fulgora

[hybrid prism]

would be extremely sad

especially since when they revealed vulcanus they gave way more than they did fulgora in the initial post

[sweet wind]

I'm curious how they'll get us to harvest the 'oil spills' or if it'll just be an offshore pump

[bold shard]

so many questions about that planet

I'm very happy with the direction so far

much better than it being empty/uninhabited wasteland

[sweet wind]

Well, it is an uninhabited wasteland. Unfortunately the previous inhabitants left their mess, trash and pollution everywhere!
What species would ever do that to the planet they inhabit? So inconsiderate.

[hybrid prism]

or they were killed by robots

[hoary timber]

Ai took over

[desert lake]

Instead of biters we'll find evil wall-es

[slender glen]

evil walls

[small bear]

I wonder if is just a lore conceptual art to show what the previous civilization species on looks like

and they don’t actually appear in the expansion

[deft mauve]

a planet without life, or as you say, a wasteland, may be an interesting solution and a break from nauvis

These ruins probably hide interesting ancient technology for our engineer, especially since Fulgora looks like an extinct world

[small bear]

wild guess: the blue machine can act as power generator or assembler

electricity field on makes more effective

bots use less or no power on

[iron venture]

My guess: Lightning rods act as a great power source as well as protecting buildings, blue machine assembles circuits quickly/cheaply but with high power cost

[deft mauve]

I still believe that they will add a generator powered by liquid fuel or another machine that uses these fuels

but going back to the thread with the lightning rod, whether or not only fulgora will be exclusive to IT

[desert lake]

This is probably a little too much

That would give a fulgora base an immeasurably huge advantage compared to other planets

[desert lake]

And actually, I almost sort of expect the opposite of this

To make dealing with all the mixed outputs of scrap mining more interesting, they will discourage you from using bots and incentivize clever belt designs

[small bear]

the opposite would also make sense gameplay wise I think, because u may need to sort recycled scraps and bots may trivialize this puzzle

[small bear]

ah we’re thinking the same

[vocal rock]

depends on how much more efficient and how much of a hustle it is to produce something on fulgora
and vulcanus already has insanely op lava

[rugged onyx]

infinite battery life in robots for Fulgora would be amazing! the bot base must grow

[candid pawn]

id forgive wube for their trangressions aginst bots if they allowed that

[pale pumice]

What transgressions against bots?

[raven bridge]

Vulcanus science pack speculation: 1 big miner, 1 foundry, some lava -> 3 metallurgic packs

Possibly instead

[desert lake]

It's not that op. Sure, it's infinite iron and copper, but it's not free. You still need to mine and supply calcite the old fashioned way

Also you get them mixed, so you have to chuck excess into lava, and to do that you first need to cast it in another foundry

[vocal rock]

It's almost free, and +50% prod will surely help. Beacons can't even use quality or prod mods, they are farther from op imo

It will be great if game designed for vulcanus to be unbeatable forge world, and others will have their own specializations - for processing specialization buffed beacons have a lot of sense

[small bear]

my guess is tungsten carbide, tungsten beam and lots of gears

or perhaps explosives

or even cliff explosives

that may explain why they have a huge cliff explosives production here

I believe metallurgic science should involve some oil products, thus cliff explosives

big miner + foundry + cliff explosives-> 5 metallurgic science?

maybe more cliff explosives depends on the cost balance

[rocky plover]

Cliff explosives are almost certainly not on vulcanus

To use oil products, you only need something with red or blue chips in its recipe. There's plenty to choose from.

Tbh big miner probably uses red chips, do there's your oil requirement

[small bear]

I disagree. If there’s any thematic reason that u unlock cliff explosives on a specific planet, its because there’s lot of cliffs on that planet

Vulcanus already has 1/3 or area covered by lava, 1/3 are covered by cliffs. Even if u have cliff explosives u still need to build around terrains

[small bear]

the cliff explosives don’t need any new intermediates that u can’t produce on Nauvis, so it must be that there’s lots of cliffs on for u to study how to destroy

[rocky plover]

They have said that they want the choice of planet you go to first to be a strategic choice, with lots of things from planets helping with different planets.

Cliff explosives are an excellent choice for one of these things unlocked on one planet useful on a different one

[small bear]

source?

The order in which you exploit the planets is an impactful strategic choice.

[small bear]

they didn’t say “with lots of things from planets helping with different planets”

Vulcanus building area would be too limited for rocket construction if without cliff explosives

[rocky plover]

You only need a 9 x 9 area. There are plenty of those.

[small bear]

that’s just for the silo

[slender glen]

you can fit entire base inside one ashland biome

[small bear]

u also want to make big miners, foundries, metallurgic science

[small bear]

so it’s similar size as the Nauvis starting area?

[slender glen]

at least just to to launch significant amount of science packs

[slender glen]

hard to say, Nauvis starting area is surrounded by other buildable areas

[small bear]

Nauvis starting lake surrounded by non fully closed cliff walls

[slender glen]

just to clarify you dont need production of nauvis science packs there

just the silo, and rocket parts

and ofc stuff you want to export like new science packs, belts etc

and rockets are 20 times cheaper in space age meaning you need 20 times less machines for same amount of launches per time unit

[raven bridge]

Space is not an issue when you have recipe selection with circuits

It's does make sense if you want to make some science there to unlock some metallurgic research early

[raven bridge]

Does this confirm "exclusive recipes" have to be made on the planet? Or just that they need items exclusive to the planet

[small bear]

I think at this point it’s 99% sure that it means have to be made on that planet

[raven bridge]

Honestly, I'm ok with it

[small bear]

I think some of the early metallurgic techs may not require other science packs.

[raven bridge]

That's interesting as well!

[small bear]

thats actually how satellite early space science works in SA iirc

so it makes sense to have a small research outpost before u need to send science back to the main science center

[slender glen]

tbh im not sure what does it mean 😄 but some stuff is better to be made on the planet with native resources then to export the raw resources anyway

[small bear]

most stuff, probably.

[raven bridge]

Makes sense final items weigh less than the raw ingredients

That said, if an item has a lot of non-exclusive ingredients, it may be worth shipping the ingredients

[small bear]

u mean shipping the exclusive ingredients?

[raven bridge]

Yes. Though in the case, they are quite heavy

You could even say they are heavy stones

[small bear]

I guess that will be a very rare case

I wonder if solar will be the late game power solution on

since at that time u can just pave the world

and its 4x the strength as on Nauvis

[raven bridge]

Only after we can pave lava

[small bear]

Id assume it would be end game then

hum.. I wonder if it would be easier to just scale acid steam power, as even on Vulcanus, u need >25 solar panels to compete with a single steam turbine

the next question is, is it power positive to speed module acid well for power?

[sweet wind]

4x power production with a 90 second day/night cycle will make it very strong

[raven bridge]

We might want to prod it to keep calcite

[sweet wind]

I expect it would be if you're using high quality modules yeah

[raven bridge]

High quality really changes how we think of things man

[sweet wind]

cause you could put in an efficiency module

[raven bridge]

You can use high quality for the speed

[small bear]

I think the bottleneck would be the speed u can extract acid

[sweet wind]

qual beacons for lower power draw, qual speed+eff module in them for net negative power draw and big speed boost

[raven bridge]

Sulfur vents are relatively common from what I understand

[sweet wind]

the bottleneck may well end up being dealing with the sulfur byproduct

gotta have enough lava nearby

[small bear]

it doesn’t seem to have sulfur byproducts form the look of recipe icon

[raven bridge]

There's no sulfur byproduct

[sweet wind]

well sulfuric acid byproduct

[raven bridge]

Sulfuric acid is the input

[sweet wind]

wait yeah

if there isn't a byproduct then I guess that simplifies things

[raven bridge]

500c + Calcite -> 500c

[sweet wind]

yeah sounds right thinking about it

[small bear]

u can always throw byproducts into lava

[sweet wind]

yeah but you can only put so much into lava at once

[raven bridge]

And can be used directly in turbine, or condensed to . Weird that it's not a single process though.

[small bear]

u have infinite amount of lava

[sweet wind]

it's quite a lot, but you're still limited to whatever lava you can take the byproducts to

[small bear]

more than acid vents

[small bear]

they just won’t add condenser turbine because water challenges

otherwise it would be just nuclear everywhere

[sweet wind]

It's broadly simpler to just have condensing and power generation be seperate processes

[raven bridge]

E definitely wants a condenser turbine. The way it's implemented in SE is a hack

[small bear]

perhaps not in SA

[bold shard]

for tomorrow: fulgora, or some other direction?

[deft mauve]

fulgora and new machnie

[raven bridge]

2️⃣:⚡👻GA🚽

[desert lake]

I predict swimming in lava 2: lightning boogaloo

[hybrid prism]

i think will be fulgora

[late venture]

Maybe it'll be a release timing update, given that it'll have been almost exactly 6 months since the initial announcement

[raven bridge]

They won't tease us so much and not give more details

[hybrid prism]

hopefully both

[wanton swift]

I very much expect tomorrow to be more in depth details on Fulgora

Also my speculation for the Volcanus science pack:
Tungsten Carbide, lava in some form, green belt

[slender glen]

fulgotwo: zapghostgatoilet

[small bear]

so if cliff explosives are unlocked by metallurgic science, it will be after shipping science back to Nauvis

or we could bring some Nauvis science to Vulcanus

[bold shard]

if science functions like in factorio 1.x, you could make any kind of science anywhere, provided you have the materials.

it would just be far more efficient to send back the actual metallurgical science in this case, vs shipping back all of the raw materials to create it

[small bear]

in SA there will be surface exclusive recipes including science

[small bear]

also science packs are much cheaper to send even without this limit

u can send 1000 science per rocket

[bold shard]

I saw that in the FFF, but theres been a lot of speculation the last week what that actually means

[small bear]

those are just debating about the remaining 1% possibility

it 99% means u can only make it on that surface

otherwise why bother including that info on the pedia

players can just click tungsten to see what it can make

[bold shard]

yeah, I'm sure they'll explain more in the future

[small bear]

devs probably thought it was obvious

[bold shard]

but personally I'd wish recipes aren't hard restricted, but rather just made impractical to do it anywhere else. like the science example above

if someone wants to ship all kinds of expensive heavy stuff from to wherever, it should be their right to make it anywhere! lol

[small bear]

tbh I think its good that theres a hard limit to prevent inefficient strategies that could makes the game literally unplayable

if people want to play inefficiently they can always add mod

imo vanilla game should, at least to some extent, ‘teach’ players what is the ‘right way’ to play

[bold shard]

thats where our philosophies are different. I think its the player's choice to make themselves miserable if they want to, even if there are better ways to do it

yeah

the game should definitely show the right/optimum way, but IMO still be like "ok, if you want to ship this heavy ore to nauvis, you can do that also, I guess..."

[small bear]

well I think they’re not stopping players shipping anything as long as its not too heavy

its just that they can’t use some recipes on certain surfaces

which makes the choice of factory location more meaningful/reasonable

[candid pawn]

same

[bold shard]

yeah, hmmm. there are two different conflicting things said in the FFFs about this. for quality, they say eventually (end game), you'll want some centralized place where you make everything, and ship it to your different planets. but on the other extreme (forgot the FFF), like you said Pepperbox, they don't want the planets to be outposts that are just extracting (insert special resource here) and shipping it back to nauvis to process

[small bear]

it ultimately depends on the shipping cost. If u r making quality stuff, the things u ship is much more expensive than the rocket themselves, then it makes sense to ship everything to a hub

I’m not sure why people don’t like some recipes locked to specific locations while they can accept some recipes locked to specific machines

I never heard anyone complaining “but I want the option to generate power using assemblers instead of steam turbines even if its inefficient and may not be practical.”

[bold shard]

its hard to put into words. what makes assembling machine in vulcanus the only place something can be made, even though it has all of the required ingredients? IMO if the resources are in your possession, where you make something is irrelevant. the ONLY exceptions are SE kind of stuff like some kind of zero gravity stuff in space, or perhaps a building locked over some kind of resource patch

thats how I can give the special space science in SA a pass

[small bear]

I mean its a simple to do thematic explanation I’m sure Wube will add

something like Vulcanus high temperature requirements etc

environmental factors

like acid to steam recipes relies on local high temperature acid

so can only be on Vulcanus

[bold shard]

unless you can somehow make that on nauvis, but that just adds the kind of complexity they are seemingly trying to avoid. I hear you.

[small bear]

basically is the forge world, u can only make certain heavy products here because of its unique environment

[small bear]

it might be a good mod idea

[bold shard]

I'm sure SE will add this stuff, along with special pipes/pumps for lava

[small bear]

I’m okay with using iron pipe to pipe acid

its good that vanilla game stays simple

[brave wharf]

i can't remember, we did see the recipe for space science

right?

[small bear]

no

we only know the input and output but not the exact numbers

[brave wharf]

hm

[small bear]

iirc input is iron plate, ice, carbon and U235

[brave wharf]

i'm just thinking about the various new sciences

and im trying to think of what the various science pack's recipes could be

i mean obviously we don't know enough about any of the planets except vulcanus to make anything but wild speculation

but, like, given what we know about vulcanus.... it probably uses some of the special materials from vulcanus and some old materials

maybe it uses lava? we haven't seen any science packs that use fluids directly yet, but I could totally see that working

[void sapphire]

That would be cool. It would make more sense than any other science pack too, considering they’re just colored flasks, and flasks usually hold liquid.

[brave wharf]

what were the other materials on vulcanus again?

[bold shard]

calcite + tungsten are the unique ones, and then there is coal + sulfuric acid

[brave wharf]

right

so it'll probably need tungsten as well

it'd be wierd if it didn't

it's also called the "metallurgic science pack" so... it probably uses a lot of metals

ah, FFF 387 basically confirms that tungsten will be used in the science pack

[elder raptor]

wouldn't surprise me if the metallurgic science pack required lava; thus making it restricted as a side-effect

but an educated guess makes it seem as though Tungsten might be too heavy to export reliably

(or it requires the high gravity or stuff that has, making the recipes it needs locked to it)

[sudden quest]

Normie takes, but predicting FFF 399 is discussing Fulgora's key mechanics. I like the prediction that the main resource gathering here is "mining" the scrap heaps for damaged electronics and using them in the recycler to get raw metals. I also bet the special specific case for "interrupt in interrupt" teased in FFF 389 is to get trains near a lightning rod during storms. Air is thin so no bots, or at least severely crippled bot flight time. Fulgora is enemy-free besides the environment like storms and quicksand. Your base will need to be mostly powered by lightning, since it looks like it has no water and is far from the sun. The pineapple charger thing from FFF 372 is the main manufacturing building you get here, not a clue what it does though.

[pure siren]

crafting pineapples of course

[pale pumice]

My take is that the scrap is a source of raw materials, and is not recycler related. The machine is a new circuit crafting machine of sorts, with some more fulgora specific recipes.

It seems very un-wube-like (to me!) to have to recycle down materials, then craft them back up. I don't think they went with this route. I however, do not have high confidence.

[sudden quest]

Maybe both. Some things can be crafted with the "electronic parts" or whatever directly, but recycling them is also a source of iron/copper

[pale pumice]

Well, the recycler doesn't properly output stacks.

[pure siren]

Well, you can't use scrap directly as raw material. Having to recycle them for raw materials would be very on theme for Fulgora imho.

[raven bridge]

imho you mine a mixed set of resources, some of which are scrap and some are straight and . You recycle stuff for basic resources

[sudden quest]

Seems kinda lame to have the recycler just exist to support quality pretty much. I bet it has other practical uses

[pale pumice]

I do agree with soul burn partially, I think 'resource sorting' will be a part of Fulgora.

[raven bridge]

And you get basic materials from salvaging buildings too

We saw recyclers on recycling some buildings

[pure siren]

Fulgora has no lave lakes to dispose of excess resources. It's where the recycler comes in.

Might also be the reason why the Recycler doesn't recycle smelting products.

[sudden quest]

I think that's more of a logic thing than anything else. Doesn't make sense to un-smelt an item in the same manner as dis-assembling something

[pure siren]

I can see that.
But it's for all smelting recipes, including steel. Steel can be "disassembled" into iron. Could be a "where to draw the line" thing though.

[sudden quest]

Maybe and . seems a bit overpowered, since presumably they're lightweight enough to export in high quantities

[pure siren]

I don't think we can mine circuits on Fulgora.
Vulcanus gives us the Foundry to craft LDS more easily. Foundry can be exported to have easy LDS on all planets.
Mining deposits cannot be exported.

[sudden quest]

The recycler can scrap steel into iron?

[pure siren]

The Pineapple crafter will gives us easy circuits, and we'll be able to export it.

[pure siren]

Is it recipes from ore? I thought it's all smelting recipes.

[slender glen]

recyler doesnt work on smelthing recipes

[sudden quest]

Maybe I misunderstood you. I think the recycler is basically an anti-assembler. Anything made in a furnace can't be recycled, unless I misread somewhere

[pure siren]

Yeah, I meant "Steel can logically be disassembled into Iron"

not "the recycler can do it"

[raven bridge]

Red and blue. No green.

[slender glen]

in addition to that recycler doesnt work on chemical recipes so recipes made only in chem plants

[raven bridge]

Recycler only works on recipes with categories "crafting", "crafting-with-fluid", and "advanced-crafting"

[slender glen]

whats the difference between advanced-crafting and crafting

[pure siren]

advanced-crafting is like crafting, but advanced

[slender glen]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-bateman-silly-me-oh-silly-me-patrick-bateman-gif-25589956

[sudden quest]

Interesting idea, I like that. Each of the first 3 planets simplify one component of making rockets in a manner that's easily exportable.

[pure siren]

That's been one of the central assumptions about SA for a while.

[sudden quest]

I've been out of the loop then lol. The 3rd item teased in 372 could plausibly be some kind of fuel mixer, so it checks out

[desert lake]

They said as much in "swimming in lava"

[slender glen]

keep in mind rockets take to lanuch meaning you probably are going to lose circuts when exporting them XD

[pure siren]

can always "mine" more

[slender glen]

then just mine more on importing planet

[raven bridge]

Yea but they only take 100 or even 50 . You can launch 1000

[desert lake]

Can you?

[raven bridge]

Yes https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/blog-sync/fff-397-advanced-circuit.png

[pure siren]

boskid shared a screenshot a while ago, I think it's 200

[desert lake]

One PU is like 130 kilograms

[sudden quest]

oh, didn't even notice that. yup I'm convinced

[desert lake]

Ah, you meant red, not blue

[slender glen]

rocket capacity of is 300

[raven bridge]

Woah they are chonky boys

Still, with 4 in , it costs just 72

[slender glen]

[pure siren]

they're not heavier than RC, but require more thourough packaging

[desert lake]

New use for wood: Packaging sawdust

[slender glen]

even better aproach would be to export the stuff that you need instead of intermediates like

[slender glen]

what about cardboxes ?

[sudden quest]

we need iron wire so I can play universal paperclips in factorio

[desert lake]

Mod that swaps iron sticks and copper wire into iron wire and copper sticks

[slender glen]

dont forget about copper gear

[raven bridge]

Stone gears

[slender glen]

stone barrels vases

[deft mauve]

since we're going like this, why not add a bronze alloy

[raven bridge]

No tin

[deft mauve]

Bronze It not only tin but tin is very popular in bronze

[rocky plover]

Does recycling into lots of increase its mass?

[deft mauve]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze?wprov=sfla1

[rocky plover]

One question: what is bronze used for apart from antique swords and antique atatues?

[raven bridge]

No because you only get 25% of the ingredients

[slender glen]

modern statues

and church domes XD

[rocky plover]

New building: church, confirmed

[deft mauve]

Ok antique bronze is tin and Cooper but modern is ex zinc bronze

[slender glen]

you exchange offerings for better quality chance

[rocky plover]

Introduce bronze, silver and gold. All can be made into coins which can then be traded to the biters in exchange for goods and services.

[slender glen]

what services?

[deft mauve]

I think that gold would make better cables

[slender glen]

mod it

[rocky plover]

"protection money"

[keen scaffold]

Week 2 of predicting the biter dating simulator

Or week 3, I lost count

[raven bridge]

Week N of Stack -> Stacking

[slender glen]

[rocky plover]

That goes really well with the bronze silver and gold biter-coins.

Biters can use their biter-coins to pay for a romantic meal at the undefended copper outpost all-you-can-eat buffet.

[small bear]

tbh those looks more like metal pieces than electronics

[pure siren]

Week N of
Burning Inserter
Long-Handing Inserter
Fasting Inserter
Bulking Inserter

[keen scaffold]

You know oxygen bars? Pollution bars

[keen scaffold]

Fasting inserter? Is he trying to lose weight?

[rocky plover]

He's aiming to be upgraded into a bulking inserter

[pure siren]

probably just low on power

[desert lake]

Bite-coin

[pure siren]

Bite coin is a unique crypto currency as it's most efficiently farmed on your CPU, leaving your GPU free to farm bitcoins simultaneously.

[small bear]

splitting belts
undergrounding belts

[pure siren]

expressing belts

(they talk a lot)

[pale pumice]

Depends, what's factorio's rating?

[keen scaffold]

Assembling machine
Hey wait a second

[raven bridge]

Speeding Module

Advancing Circuit

[keen scaffold]

Processing unit
Damn not again

[slender glen]

rocketing silo

[rocky plover]

Nuclear reacting

[lilac arrow]

[small bear]

bitings

spittings

[raven bridge]

Nesting

[pale pumice]

Alright boys, make sure your bets are in

[small bear]

E is active

Fulgora intro pt2

Blue machine

lightning mechanics

scrap recycling

[deft mauve]

Or alternative energy generators

[small bear]

power from lightning

[raven bridge]

I think it'll touch on some of things, but not all

[small bear]

improved circuit production

[raven bridge]

Scrap yes, lightning partially, blue machine I think not

[deft mauve]

this too, but this tar sand may have something to do with an electricity generator

[raven bridge]

Oh it's possible we'll see tar sand mechanics

[deft mauve]

I belive combustion generators

[stable summit]

my money is on gold as a new resource

[small bear]

I feel like the new resource is tin

gold isn’t bad tho

[pale pumice]

Last minute calls for bets!

[small bear]

Blue machine

[sweet wind]

sorting scrap with the recycler for raw materials!

[brave wharf]

i could see either gold, tin, silver, or aluminium being added, but... we'll see in a few minutes

[small bear]

all of them are added

[brave wharf]

and given what we saw about vulcanus, i suspect we'll find out about the new machine, the new main production chain (so probably scrap, if everyone else's theory is correct), and probably another smaller mechanic or two (like the sulfuric acid to water on Vulcanus as well as the existence of tungsten)

[raven bridge]

I don't see a new resource on . But there likely is something

[small bear]

we had two new ore, one new pump jack resource and one new off shore pump resource added on , I wonder how many new resources there are on

[brave wharf]

well we know there's oil tar

[small bear]

they didn’t show us new resources

[brave wharf]

and scrap is probably one too

given it works thematically

[small bear]

oil tar seems to be shalow water tile that u can use off shore pumps to extract

[brave wharf]

that would make sense

also, if there's scrap, almost certainly they will introduce the recycler

which would kind of make sense

well, we'll see what we get in a few mins

[stable summit]

Gold being recycled from electronic scrap would make sense and even be somewhat realistic

[brave wharf]

i doubt they'd just make gold obtained from the same source as all the other items, tho

idk

[small bear]

well, blue machine it is

[raven bridge]

Blue machine 😄

and lightning rods

[small bear]

so lightning is indeed only at night

[desert lake]

So... it seems I was half wrong and half right about scrap

It works the way I predicted, but the loot table was expanded greatly and is more mixed

Well, that's enough for me, I feel satisfied

[brave wharf]

holmium.

i mean.... sure, i guess?

seems like an odd choice (like, gold probably would've made sense to make it look less like every other ore in the game)

but

[raven bridge]

I was correct that and can come directly, but not . I still didn't expect all the other results haha

But others were correct that we also get and

[half tree]

400 next 👀

[bold shard]

this will get lost in the main channel so I'll ask here- vs for first planet?

[small bear]

yeah I didn’t expect that we get all those resources from recycling lol

[late venture]

- they're leaving the best for last :P

[raven bridge]

Last will be aquilo though

[small bear]

seems like they changed module recipes

[raven bridge]

Yes!

T3 now needs superconducting wires. Or at least does.

[desert lake]

Finally, after "quality module quality"... We now have "productivity module productivity"

[raven bridge]

Most speculations were correct:

• Scrap is the resource
• The blue building is for circuits (and more)
• Lightning rods defend us, and let us get power

Didn't expect the oil sands to be unbuildable though

[desert lake]

I did

But, only the extra dark middle parts

The ones that slow the player down

This is a step above what I expected too

I like it though, this island like gameplay is sure to be very unique

Though, I do really hope we get to pave them eventually...

Like, the super late kind of "eventually", the same kind as lava

Because, iirc at least, lava paving was confirmed, wasn't it?

[primal nacelle]

It is said in the FFF that you can pave the oilsand in late game

[raven bridge]

very late game. probably same tech as paving lava

[small bear]

seems like my prediction wasn’t too off

#friday-facts message

[pale pumice]

@small bear You nailed it 100%

I'm extremely confident you're right about bacchus

.

[small bear]

also now we know that T3 module ls are probably unlocked one per planet

[pale pumice]

I don't think so.

I think it's unlocked here

It seems to use the superconducting wires

[desert lake]

Well, that seemed pretty impossible to screw up. I thought everyone was on the same page about this

[pale pumice]

the 'planet per module' idea is dead

[small bear]

they said its where u unlock T3 quality modules, meaning that others are probably locked behind other planets

[pale pumice]

That's a bit weird, because 1 per planet means one is on vulcanus

[small bear]

they just didn’t mention it I think

[pale pumice]

Whatever planet has efficiency 3 is also getting extremely short-shafted.

[small bear]

[pale pumice]

I think all modules are unlocked on fulgora, personally

but also quality modules

all levels of quality modules are unlocked there

as well as recycler

and all module 3s

[small bear]

u unlock all T1 modules at and all T2 modules at tho

which includes quality modules

[pale pumice]

Really? you sure?

Link please :)

[small bear]

I read all the FFFs yes

[pale pumice]

If this is the case, I am convinced.

[desert lake]

Yes, q mods unlock together with all other t1 modules

[pale pumice]

Well, you're very likely right then.

[small bear]

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-376

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-381

[pale pumice]

I concur.

Yeah, it's odd only quality 3 was mentioned here.

That does seem to imply the others are somewhere else

[small bear]

yeah I was wondering why they didn’t just say ‘T3 modules’

now the bet is on , on and on Aquilo

unless they just trolled us and all T3 modules are on

[desert lake]

In this case I do hope they trolled

[pale pumice]

All of them being on Fulgora makes a lot more sense?

[small bear]

I would prefer all T3 modules on personally

[small bear]

yeah

[desert lake]

I mean, the planet with the dedicated module making building...

[pale pumice]

But this is #1177597309572366396, not #FFF Wishlist

Some people come here and 'predict' what they want every week

[pure siren]

all T3 modules on one planet would be too OP

everybody would pick that planet as their first

[pale pumice]

nauvis: laughs

[small bear]

but if some modules are made else where it also makes sense to export the blue machine

[desert lake]

Fair point actually

But we still haven't seen the full assortments of available stuff on other planets

Maybe there's a balance

[small bear]

now the question I have is how the hell can be more attractive than the other two planets

[pure siren]

free fuel

[slender glen]

ive been wondering myself

[raven bridge]

Personally I expect a living jungle, with vines

[small bear]

imagine a themed planet

[small bear]

Id like that

[slender glen]

thats a space platform

[small bear]

trees being actual enemies

[raven bridge]

Imagine, 6 second videos on a planet

[desert lake]

I mean spidertron probably unlocks there, that seems quite desirable already

Along with some neo oil processing, which could help a lot with setting up the other two

[small bear]

I suspect that spidertrons are on the last planet

and we don’t know where we will get artillery

[desert lake]

I don't think they'd lock them that far back, they would be exceptionally useful for setting up your mid game colonies

[small bear]

hum.. but devs said that all 1.1 items can be reached relatively early in SA

so u mgiht be right

[pure siren]

Spidertron is the BBEG
"unlock it after defeating it"
I like the idea, but there was a Spidertron on a Fulgora screenshot

[desert lake]

My bet is on vulcanus, it seems fittingly "heavy metal". Also tungsten artillery shells would be sweet

[small bear]

because it was super late game where u can landfill the oil tar ocean

[small bear]

I feel like is not a bad candidate for artillery because we probably get better plastic and explosive production there

[rocky plover]

One of my favorite ideas was aggressive trees which you have to defeat with military means, and once defeated you place a pumpjack on the stump to slurp up all the delicious plant juice straight from its roots.

[small bear]

living islands that slowly consume u while u r sleeping

[raven bridge]

Rain forest, where the trees are always wet and can't be burned

[rocky plover]

What about a tree that burns YOU?

[small bear]

that sounds like tree

[last maple]

Planet #4 in a strange mixup, is an ice / water world, inserter fishing is the main resource

[raven bridge]

Frozen planet though

[small bear]

ice fishing on the last planet

nah it’s probably fish on

where u unlock spidertrons

[raven bridge]

Will we get a condition for "night is falling" to send our trains to safety (using interrupt-in-interrupt)?

[stable summit]

Maybe an interrupt condition based on the health of the train

[raven bridge]

Important thought. We can't put on the tar sands. Meaning, that remote -style expansion using on is impossible.

Meaning we might get a builder train module

[small bear]

I read that as we will have on trains!

[pale pumice]

Anyone have any idea what this is?

[small bear]

super capacitor

[pale pumice]

The purple fluid*

it appears to dark to be petroleum to me?

[grave crag]

I now want to see all of them:

• quality module quality
• productivity module productivity
• speed module speed
• efficiency module efficiency

[small bear]

some oil + stone

[raven bridge]

+ + = purple fluid?!

[pale pumice]

No, the other oil is being output

the redish purple one

[grave crag]

Lightning rod mk2?

[pale pumice]

that's electrolyte

[raven bridge]

I thought it was liquid holmium, but no. It might also be the electromagnetic science pack juice

[short patio]

I had the same thought. You can't repair or expand your base at all, and a singke stuck train could stop your whole base

[raven bridge]

The ore is processed into some holmium intermediates such as electrolyte, superconductors, and supercapacitors.

[small bear]

now I don’t know what to expect for the next FFF

[raven bridge]

Next FFF is technical

[small bear]

more space platform FFF

[raven bridge]

We have 4 fluids here, which seem to be the 3 oils, and a pink one

[slender glen]

||electromagnetic plant|| your welcome

[small bear]

it will be fun that on basic materials will be more expensive than advanced ones

also I noticed that there is no coal

how are we supposed to make explosives then

unless we can’t

or can we recycle plastics into coal

I guess not

[slender glen]

recycle military science to get coal

[short patio]

It seems like anything we would use coal or plastic for is something we instead get directly from scrap

Well maybe not military science, true

[slender glen]

plastic is needed and it is even shown in the FFF video

[short patio]

Ah, so it is

[slender glen]

to get plastic you recycle LDS or advanced circuits

[topaz wing]

the green thing on the map might also be an additional resource right?

[raven bridge]

Science packs aren't recyclable down IIRC

[slender glen]

i forgor

[slender glen]

how come you are better at this then me

[raven bridge]

You're artistic. I'm autistic. We are not the same.

[slender glen]

[rocky plover]

The lack of coal / explosives is a very good point. It's not a critical part of the production chain, but still weird that it's missing.

[raven bridge]

Not every planet has to be about things going boom

[pale pumice]

this one seems to have plenty as is.

[deft mauve]

it seems this planet didn't have too many cliffs

[raven bridge]

Every island is a surrounded by cliffs on most sides

[small bear]

well I guess u don’t need explosives that much on a planet without enemies

[short patio]

So with Vulcanus as the metallurgy planet and Fulgora as the high tech one, I'm expecting Bwuhuo to be the petrochem planet, with lots of fluid handling. I think that instead of having islands and plateaus where you can build, like with Vulcanus and Fulgora, you'll be expected to clear out space by carving through jungles and whatever new biters there are

[small bear]

I think its more likely to be biochemistry plant

[raven bridge]

Very likely.

Also, Kovarex dropped a bombshell with "dude this planet feels like all others, lets completely rebuild it to be unique"

Meaning will also be unique compared to the 3 revealed planets

[hybrid prism]

well of course they feel unique

[raven bridge]

What will we pump in ? Water is an obvious, but another fluid as well? Mineral water?

[keen scaffold]

biter blood!!! Biter skulls for the biter skull throne!

[brave wharf]

maybe is kinda like titan in the IRL solar system, with lakes of liquid methane or something on it

or ammonia

or idk

[raven bridge]

Sap?

Vitamelange?

[keen scaffold]

bacchus is meant to be earth, nauvis is venus

which is weird now that i think about it

maybe sulfuric acid lakes on bacchus?

[raven bridge]

We have already on

It's probably just water

[keen scaffold]

oh yeah i forgor

although it could be our mystery third resource

[raven bridge]

I mean, give me a nice planet for once

[keen scaffold]

we've had tungsten, holmium, why not mercury?

[small bear]

My wild guess is that u make oil products from plants instead of oil nodes/oil ocean

so it feels opposite to where u case metal from molten ones

on u do oil processing from raw solid ingredients

[raven bridge]

Biofuel basically

[rocky plover]

Liquid methane is extremely cold. That'd be an ice planet

[small bear]

I feel like will be full of trees, fruits, enemies etc

alcohol production

[rocky plover]

I feel like will have such a weird oil processing route that there will just be a mine there too because otherwise no good way of getting sulfur.

Stuff like, directly producing lube and plastic with no way of getting any kind of oil except by space import.

[small bear]

bio lubricant

rubber

what about explosives

maybe u can get weak acid from fruits for battery

I’m mostly curious how they twist ore production on

[raven bridge]

Enemies

Bring enemies with pollution or some hormones, and shoot them

Use grabby arms to pick up the parts

[small bear]

hummm that feels too fictional even for factorio

[rocky plover]

You know what, ok, lets say you make a planet where you can't get oil at all. What products do you need alternative recipes for? Plastic, lube, rocket fuel, sulfur? What else?

[small bear]

I think u named most of them

but not if we count the more advanced recipes based on chemical ingredients

[rocky plover]

What more advanced recipes?

[small bear]

explosives, batteries, and many recipes that takes plastic

I mean plastics alone is already something

[rocky plover]

Ok, well if you have plastic and sulfur, you can make those anyway

[raven bridge]

FFF #400 will be some cool recap. Like project status or something.

[vocal rock]

hope not - recaps are really boring

[raven bridge]

Technology cap... like "We've played it. We're about 60% through planet A, B, C. Here's an expected release date"

[bold shard]

I'd be okay with it if they threw in some more teaser images of stuff

but to be honest I think next week is : pt 3

[vocal rock]

bwuhuo time, i hope)

[raven bridge]

We might get a technical , like we got technical

[desert lake]

I'd be fine with something minor/technical next week

We've been given plenty to think about, this would be a good moment for a break

[raven bridge]

Just the "hey we have a building with +50% base prod (including on non-proddable recipes) and 5 module slots" throws all the theorycrafters into overdrive

We haven't even touched the ratios for scraps

[desert lake]

Even with modules, just 5 prod 3s alone will give a solid extra +50% productivity. It's only an increase from 40, but 50 just sounds so much bigger

[raven bridge]

It's an easy double the production compared to a basic

[small bear]

the machine is also faster at 2.0 crafting speed vs 1.25 from

[raven bridge]

And larger so you can beacon it up more

[desert lake]

Did they ever say the foundry's exact speed? Or did they just leave it at "very fast"

[raven bridge]

Hmmm how many beacons can we even put around a 4x4? I don't think we saw those before

Hmm seems like it's still 12 beacons max

[desert lake]

Does it change the "8 beacon" amount?

Like, the amount from only 2 sides, in a linear design

[hybrid prism]

i would like that

[brave wharf]

was it states if quality beacons did anything

[bold shard]

yeah not sure if you can do any better than this

[brave wharf]

I could totally see higher quality beacons having higher range

[raven bridge]

https://fbe.teoxoy.com/

[raven bridge]

Beacons get reduced power usage

[brave wharf]

ah

right

[desert lake]

Which I still think is lame

[raven bridge]

If they get something else, it could be transfer power up to 0.75 in

[brave wharf]

Wiki says you can have a max of 12 beacons for 2x2, 3x3 and 4x4.

[desert lake]

I mean I understand how it was the only option

Both extra range and extra transmit efficiency would be incredibly busted

But still I get to say it's lame

[brave wharf]

they could've given leg beacons an extra tile of range or an extra module slot

but

[pale pumice]

no

[short patio]

From the way quality doesn't work with speed modules, and hence beacons, it feels like they want to move away from the beacon dominated meta

[desert lake]

Which I think is great

I love my direct insertion

[raven bridge]

Quality itself makes things faster, so you don't need as many beacons either

[bold shard]

unless you're aiming to make one of those super turbo builds like this

[raven bridge]

True.

[pure siren]

That only means you don't want to use speed modules where you have quality modules.
Everything else gets speed modules instead.

[raven bridge]

Fun fact... with just stuff and , you can make 390 /s, without any prod tech

[pure siren]

which is more beacon dominated than 1.1

[raven bridge]

With the new building this goes up immensely.

[pure siren]

that is more than a [redacted] belt with full stacks o.O

[raven bridge]

With the new buildings it's 697/s

[bold shard]

that is just stupid lol

[raven bridge]

heh.

Wait no

I forgot the 50% base prod

852/s

[pure siren]

in SA we can (almost) megabase with single assemblers

[bold shard]

with 1.x, I think we can all agree in saying it was far more of an 'accomplishment' to produce / circuits at volume. SA greatly simplifies this. so I wonder with this increased volume of powerful/useful intermediates, aside from spending on tech and quality grinding, will there be very expensive items that use stuff like this aquilo/post aquilo. like many thousands of , etc. a new massive hurdle to clear for something.

[desert lake]

We even have circuit control

[short patio]

I feel that we won't know for a long while. The Vulcanus and Fulgora tech we've been shown has largely been the stuff you're supposed to get almost as soon as you land on the planet. We've only seen minor hints as to what the real late game stuff is like. The cost of the highest quality stuff does seem to indicate that we'll get some truly expensive stuff to make later down the line, to justify the enormous boosts available to overall production introduced in the expansion

[raven bridge]

Remember that 2.0noSA is still a thing, and is the recommend first playthrough

[desert lake]

I feel like quality alone is already at least partially the answer here

stuff is mad expensive

And literally everything (except like belts I guess) benefits from quality

[short patio]

Belts and pipes being the main ones that don't meaningfully benefit

[desert lake]

And logistics chests

Walls technically do I guess but come on

[raven bridge]

Not with all these crazy bonuses

TBH, I think 2.0 Quality will be harder to megabase than full SA

[short patio]

Walls at least get better at their main purpose

[desert lake]

That's precisely it. Big cost+big bonus=balance

[bold shard]

yeah, that's what I'm thinking. this is probably among the last content they'll reveal though in the FFF, if they do at all prior to release

I just can't help but wonder "what are we going to do with this crazy output" and the answer has to be at least somewhat outside of quality alone, since its not required for playthrough

[short patio]

Admittedly quality is in large part responsible for the crazy output potential

[raven bridge]

Remember that was originally planned for 1.0. I'm glad they waited.

[short patio]

Yeah, same with keeping the expansion private so that they could change stuff with little fuss

[raven bridge]

Yeah that whole section filled me with respect in Wube, and belief in the expansion

[pure siren]

That too, but I meant that single assemblers can (almost) produce 1k items/s.

[rocky plover]

OK, I'm pretty sure that the 8-beacon layout is still the cheapest one for the electromagnet.

With the 8-beacon layout, you get per module: 0.13 electromagnet and 0.17 beacons, with 1.04 connections between them.

With the 12 beacon layout, you get per module: 0.067 electromagnets and 0.33 beacons, with 0.8 connections between them.

---

Might change if an electromagnet is incredibly expensive (ie: on par with modules in terms of cost); in that case you might want to minimise the number of electromagnets as much as possible.

[raven bridge]

... Tesla train

with lightning rods

[pure siren]

they look expensive
The Foundry certainly isn't cheap.

[elfin zenith]

FFF Day 2 of predicting pet Biters.

[rugged onyx]

Biters make wonderful companions

[keen scaffold]

FFF week 3 of prediciting biter dating simulator

[pure siren]

Valentines day is over, I'm afraid there won't be a Biter Dating Simulator. :(

[elfin zenith]

FFF Day 1 of predicting new ways to animate a train for modders, to allow a actual steam locomotive w/animations

[raven bridge]

Not getting steam trains, but I expect an electric train, charged from lightning strikes

[small bear]

this sounds unnecessary. there’s free oil everywhere to make solid fuels

[desert lake]

Also just direct free solid fuel from scrap

Which I’m gonna be honest I’m still not so sure about

Like, it’s really that easy to just set up a single chemical plant

I guess they wanted to be extra sure players are able to smelt stuff before they get access to artificial lightning rods?

[hybrid prism]

you need water to get it with chemical plant

[desert lake]

You don’t, heavy can be turned directly

It’s less efficient, but possible

[hybrid prism]

ah ok

efficiency dont matter cuz its infinite

[desert lake]

I get why they put lds and red circuits in the pool, to lessen the amount of recycling steps to get plastic and to provide a nice simple source of mass copper (both of which will be needed for new stuff)

But solid fuel specifically seems like an odd choice

I guess rocket fuel could be one possible explanation?

[desert lake]

Or maybe there’s some reasoning to this that I’m missing

I mean, I have already realized that smelting is almost 100% required in order to obtain stone bricks

You either smelt stone, or recycle bricks out of concrete but then have to smelt the iron ore

And bricks are needed for… steel and electric furnaces I guess?

I mean in this world you don’t even need oil refineries

[brave wharf]

well

you dont need furnaces

do you?

actually, no, you probably do

for the new ore

[elfin zenith]

I made reasoning why a steam locomotive could, and should, be in factorio.

The current locomotive (which appears to be diesel) is a bit... unrealistic for when you get it. A steam locomotive could be in its place in the early game would make more sense, requiring both coal and water in its tender. The diesel locomotive would be unlocked when you get oil, and would burn almost exclusively petroleum gas. Electric locomotives would be potentially unlocked when you get nuclear power, due to the massive electrical usage, and would require special tracks that have overhead wires.

[desert lake]

Thing is, the devs have expressed a specific aversion to adding tiers of locomotives

And for good reason

I would hate it imo

Well, I would either hate it or just find it mildly annoying

[elfin zenith]

Mind I ask, why?

Steam locomotives could still have their uses late-game/pre-electric locos, like on coal trains for when you just don't feel like having a petro fueling station, and electric trains would just replace everything.

[desert lake]

Why would I not have a refueling station

I mean then I would need a water pump

[elfin zenith]

True.

[desert lake]

It’s the same reason they added solid fuel instead of adding a new train/car/furnace/power generator that drinks liquid fuels

[elfin zenith]

I'm just probably biast to steam locomotives, if my pfp says anything.

[hybrid prism]

we are getting powerful magnetic element on fulgora so we should get maglev trains

it makes sense considering the focus on trains there

[elfin zenith]

Agreed.

[desert lake]

Except, this still stands

And at that point in the game especially

Imagine ripping out all your old railways to replace them

[hybrid prism]

then dont

[desert lake]

But I can’t simply not upgrade

It is not the factorio way

[hybrid prism]

thats a you problem

[elfin zenith]

Ye

[hybrid prism]

or use bots to do it

literally a non issue

[elfin zenith]

True

[desert lake]

No it’s not a me problem, “don’t like it don’t use it” is a terrible game design principle for many reasons, and the factorio devs understand that

[brave wharf]

^ yep

just having "more stuff" tends to make games worse (not specifically a factorio or automation game issue)

the example for that I usually use is minecraft. I don't really like most of the features they have added in a while. Lots of people tell me "oh, well you just don't have to use them then" but, like, as an example with all the new blocks minecraft has added, your inventory fills up way faster and so you can't play the same way you used to

not to mention, the factorio-like effect of "if a better solution exists, I will use that solution even if it's less fun"

[desert lake]

No ok minecraft is its own very special can of worms (you see, the worms are a clever metaphor for disgusting crusty awful horrible game design)

[brave wharf]

or not necessarily less fun.... but, like, you know what I mean I think

though, then again. my argument does kind of not work, considering a bunch of games I really like do use the philosophy of "just add a bunch of stuff to the game, why not" (e.g. Terraria)

[hybrid prism]

nah minecraft problem isnt adding too many features its that a lot of the ones they add suck and make the game not fun

[brave wharf]

can't argue with that

[desert lake]

It’s not the stuff they add, it’s more like… the stuff they choose to keep instead of changing