FFF Speculations

[pale pumice]

yup

that's all I need

it's accurate within like 15 decimal places

Reality is going to add more error bars anyways

[pure siren]

algebra will give an analytical result, that you can then calculate to within 15 decimal places

clearly superior

[pale pumice]

same answer for me

This sum is rather trivial to convert, but as soon as you add some nuance to it or want to change it you have to basically re-hash the problem

[rugged onyx]

I think we got a little hint about next week's FFF, they said that we would be paying attention to other planets and need to know when our trains are no pathing, so I think they're hinting we might get another planet next week

[raven bridge]

We might see the thing that requires IntInInt?

[desert lake]

Bwuhuo floods or fulgora storms

Place your bets everybody

[raven bridge]

volcano eruptions

[rugged onyx]

Friendly Biters

[vagrant pumice]

dynamic weather all the way

[pale pumice]

Why would this suggest that

They mention planets all the time

[pure siren]

Specifically how our factories are supposed to work without us being there.

[small bear]

yeah they often mention increased throughput demand in SA and having better train system for remote management in train FFFs

[raven bridge]

We will, unfortunately, need large bot networks... to fix trains that run out of fuel

[pure siren]

just push them back to base

[raven bridge]

Not if I'm on another planet

[pure siren]

or if the train is on another level

[raven bridge]

Though it's possible to use transfer between bot networks to ensure there's some fuel/rails/stuff in every rail section

[small bear]

isn’t the refuel interrupt for u to prevent that?

[raven bridge]

Yea but it can still fail. They talked about how remote requests are there also to handle cases like that

[pure siren]

For a couple years now ovens come with what's called "mother-in-law-button". Salesmen love to pitch it like this: "You press the button when you get a quick visit by your neighbor, so you can leave the stove without burning your food. It goes to sleep, remembering all settings. When you come back, you press the button again and you can continue where you left off".
Great idea. Just one tiny little flaw: Nobody remembers to press the button when "going to do this thing real quick"

[small bear]

well it sucks to be u then u can always make rockets and platforms using local resources and fly back to solve the issue

[pure siren]

But what if something breaks in the new place?

Should I press the button before leaving? It won't be long.

[bold shard]

we're really coming full circle having fuel loading done in large loading/unloading stations again lol

having refuel stations is a really cool mechanic, but unless you have a strong reason why not to, why not just fuel trains at ore unloading stations for your base, or whatever

[small bear]

tbh u probably need to spend a non trivial time for traveling between planets. So u probably will intentionally make sure the systems are error proof before u leave.

[raven bridge]

Good luck making something error proof 🙂 The universe will just conjure a bigger error.

[small bear]

tbh this is why some of the test players still haven’t leave Nauvis

if only we have early spidertron (perhaps an early alternative?)

I think it makes sense to provide players with tools to fix issues outside bot networks before they leave Nauvis

[pure siren]

Once you have bots things either are inside your bot network, or can be made inside your bot network.

[small bear]

well, u can indeed expand the bot network to anywhere needed

[rugged onyx]

I can't wait until people math out the optimal space platforms

[grave crag]

They won't

Same as they didn't SE ships

Or did they?

[rugged onyx]

I think it'll be a race between "how much science pack throughput per hour can we expect" vs "how many platforms we got flying around" vs "UPS drain of each platform"

Because we can increase inventory via those attachable storage buildings and that'll increase weight and how much facility do we need to build to both fuel and protect our thruster systems

I'm sure there will be a Nilaus Masterclass video within a month of SA release

[pale pumice]

To be fair, Nilaus plays extremely inefficiently on time anyhow

[bold shard]

I don't think his playstyle ever aimed to be efficient with that

[distant tendon]

Oh yes that'd be nice for a change. Like... Loitering Lolcats: Occupying your belts. Clogging outputs. Huffing your petroleum gas. Can I haz a ride in your train?

[vagrant pumice]

regarding the remote problems, maybe the teased robot/engineer has something to do with that

an automaton u can use from another planet

I mean the weird engineer skin in the 389 FFF picture

[pure siren]

FFF 389 is about train control improvements, I can't find an engineer there

[pure siren]

that's a stunted cactus

thanks for the circle, I doubt I would've seen that without it :)

[desert lake]

This looks like a bigfoot sighting photo 😭😭😭

I do sort of doubt the devs would be willing to add something like that though, it seems like way too big of an overlap with spidertron

It would either be used once or twice in the entire game before people get their spidertrons, or it would be so much cheaper and more convenient than the spider to the point that people won't even bother with it and just use the new guy

Actually, maybe it only being a little one time use thing would be fine

Like the burner miner of space travel

You need one just to set up the landing pad for the first time on each planet, and that's it

Maybe that wouldn't be so bad

[pure siren]

It's taunting us.

[desert lake]

It's just standing there...

In MENACINGLY low resolution

[pliant ocean]

or you just get a separate train that you use to get around your rail network...

[pale pumice]

I think they should just change the condition to include ‘doesn’t have passenger’

[pliant ocean]

i don't really get the point you're making. having a pocket train and temporary stops being a thing make it possible already. no need to overcomplicate stuff

[elder raptor]

every now and then I see "1 blocked message" from that one [person who has strong opinions], decide to check it cause I'm curious, and am immediately validated

either way, I think "manual trains" could be done with the use of some of the new features

[sweet wind]

Hot goss in the predictions chat

I don't usually have an issue with using existing trains to pick me up and take me wher I want to go

there are a couple of minor annoyances, sometimes you forget to change the leave conditions etc. but if you change the default behaviour you're just going to introduce a different annoyance

[elder raptor]

lmao my message got reported

[rugged onyx]

Can't be reported if you never post

[sweet wind]

Is impersonation a reportable offense? I feel like we need to keep an eye out for non-humans posing as human discord users.

[raven bridge]

Last new SA content was 387. We're bound to have new content stuff soon

[topaz wing]

This friday it has also been exactly 2 months since the Vulcanus reveal

[small bear]

planet

[small bear]

technically FFF 393 is also SA content

[rugged onyx]

There are non humans posting here?

[sweet wind]

I have a sneaking suspicion but no confirmation yet

Let me know if you get any leads

[rugged onyx]

Will do, fellow oxygen breather

[raven bridge]

Kinda, but it's not new stuff

[small bear]

stack inserter is indeed something new

it’s just that they didn’t put the inserter with a different planet background

otherwise it could be a similar FFF as swimming in lava

[sweet wind]

Eh, the implications are smaller with stack inserters

swimming in lava gave us quite a lot

[elder raptor]

I think getting more content would make sense for one of the next few ones

But mostly I think we'll get a new planet at around the end of February, and that it'll be Fulgora

[topaz wing]

As they have added a new kind of biome system that we've seen with Vulcanus, do we think Nauvis might get a map generation upgrade aswell?

[elder raptor]

probably, but I don't thinkt hat's gonna result in meaningful gameplay changes (other than seeds not giving the same output across versions)

[topaz wing]

Yeah they probably don't want to change the Nauvis gameplay too much.

[rocky plover]

I just want oil to be a forced spawn so that there aren't seeds where you just can't find oil anywhere

[pure siren]

yes, that would be nice. Hasn't happened to me, and I want it to stay that way.

[raven bridge]

Personally I want a mod that makes Nauvis have all other planet biomes somewhere far away

[sweet wind]

Sounds doable

Not sure how well it would work with enemies/evolution though

[raven bridge]

It'll be dumb with resource scarcity, but still a fun run.

[sweet wind]

Yeah, that too

[raven bridge]

For example, you'd want water to stop spawning quite far from

[desert lake]

I still think it's from vulcanus

[small bear]

I feel like the redacted belt is on vulcanus because u need lots of gears for belts

and foundry make easy gears

[desert lake]

I think the stack inserter is on vulcanus because the big mining drill already makes you interact with stacks

[small bear]

that feels more like a side effect. u don’t get belts stack from big miners if u don’t unlock the belt stack bonus tech

actually, it makes sense if is unlocked after belt stacking, because without stacking, it only gives +15/s throughput compared to , each stacking level gives + 45/s compared to , with stacking level 3-4, gives +45-60/s throughput

[raven bridge]

(Greedacted transport belt)

Imho green belts should unlock like on aquilo or something

[small bear]

so if might be possible that is on the last planet

[raven bridge]

unlocks really early

[small bear]

I wouldn’t mind if is on but it’s okay that it remains on Nauvis. it is gated by the expensive recipe anyway

[raven bridge]

TBH unlocks really early in vanilla

imho it should be

But I do like that stack size research is earlyish

[small bear]

I think for is similar to , that u can afford a small amount early, but u can’t mass produce them until u climb the tech tree further

[raven bridge]

TBH is

[small bear]

is not really that expensive tho

[desert lake]

It's gated behind red circuits only progression-wise, you don't need many of them to actually produce it

[raven bridge]

is quite expensive... 80~ resources

[small bear]

the thing is that u don’t need a lot of them everywhere when u just unlock it

even for train loading/unloading, is good enough for

u don’t need to sink as much material into compared to because the amount u need is different

[raven bridge]

At early stages, yea more than enough. That's why I think it should be at least and not

[small bear]

I think still have their niche at stage

[raven bridge]

At that stage is more than enough

[small bear]

also one reason is enough is that we have the regular inserter stack size bonus after unlocking

maybe should be unlocked after the regular inserter stack size bonus tech?

it always feels weird that I want to unlock and inserter stack size bonus 1 and 2 just to boost my

not even mentioned that the inserter stack size bonus 1 is just for me to get bonus 2, otherwise it is a useless tech at that stage

[desert lake]

Speaking of

I REALLY hope that in 2.0 the non-bulk inserters get one more hand capacity

Just one more

Because 4 is the size of a whole stack

[small bear]

devs added 2 more

[small bear]

u can just use if u want to grab full stack tho

[desert lake]

It's not that I want to specifically be able to grab one stack of something, that's really easy to do

I just want non-bulk inerters to be usable with stacked belts

Without messing up all the pretty perfect stacks 😭😭😭

[small bear]

what are the use cases tho

[desert lake]

Long handed inserters

[small bear]

into machines?

I wouldn’t care if the stack is full when the belt is not full anyway

[desert lake]

Do keep in mind this is all 95% just me wanting things to look pretty, I doubt the uneven stacks would have any particularly noticable effect on throughput

[small bear]

long-handed bulk inserter

[raven bridge]

Do you think will require ?

[small bear]

possibly

but a small amount

[raven bridge]

Yea I'm guessing just 1. Considering how costs + 15 + 1 .

Could be 1 + 5 . But I'd argue not more expensive than that.

[small bear]

another question is will cost tungsten if it is unlocked on , or the planet specific material from where it’s unlocked

[raven bridge]

Hmmm would be interesting if it uses a new material

We know it's an SA item rather than 2.0 so that's possible

[small bear]

I’m super curious about tungsten processing

[raven bridge]

Prediction: + tungsten ore -> tungsten plates

[small bear]

it will at least using the foundry, and the FFF specifically mentioned that big miners will cost tungsten, but didn’t say the same for foundry, so foundry probably doesn’t require tungsten

is it realistic to melt tungsten and cast?

[raven bridge]

Because of tungsten's high melting point, it is not commercially feasible to cast tungsten ingots.

Instead, powdered tungsten is mixed with small amounts of powdered nickel or other metals, and sintered. During the sintering process, the nickel diffuses into the tungsten, producing an alloy.

[small bear]

perhaps tungsten carbide?

since we have coal

[raven bridge]

Tungsten carbide for big miner is a sure bet

[small bear]

I hope the next FFF shows tungsten processing and products

[raven bridge]

I hope it's SA content. While I love QoL, I want to see some spicy

[rain sonnet]

I have a feeling that there will be several new tech on each planet that's kind of useful for the planet its unlocked on but then really useful for one of the other planets.

[raven bridge]

Something like how in Megaman you use one boss power to counter another boss?

[rain sonnet]

Don't know that specific reference but that sound the same

I think weapons are the most likely example of this but I think other tech could be similar

[small bear]

on

could be an early metallurgic science

but u may need to unlock lavafill on the last planet

[rain sonnet]

I think on as it seems like the most likely to be chemical process related

[small bear]

the thing is that I don’t really know how can u make rocket production on without to clear more factory space

[rain sonnet]

Isn't one of the "biome" fairly cliff free?

The flats

[small bear]

there isn’t too much space

it makes sense that u study cliff structures on a planet with lot of cliffs, to learn how to efficiently destroy them

may give u alternative explosives recipes, but I don’t think its where u unlock

[rain sonnet]

Ashlands is the biome I was thinking off but looking back at it again, you are right that there isn't much room there either

You have convinced me that is likely on

[pure siren]

Or we get it on another planet so that is one of the things that help.

[rain sonnet]

That was my original thinking too but looking again at the map images of has convinced me that are almost required for that planet in order to get a large enough factory up and running to get off of it.

[elder raptor]

I don't think it's required

I see cliffs as an additional logistical challenge

[pure siren]

Your blueprints are worthless here.

[bold shard]

it'll be nice having to adapt to the environment to build factories, vs largely relying on bps like I have for the last few years

[dapper bough]

Or at least using blueprints smaller than a city block, scaling them up to the size you can fit

[rugged onyx]

I'm hoping for a new planet or new biters

It's cool when we get new tools, but I like an FFF where we get a new challenge

[elder raptor]

I maintain my prediction

[pure siren]

All I want is for FFF 404 to not exist.

[rare canopy]

New biters is going to be big news but I like hearing about my trains

Need more trains

[raven bridge]

Too many train things. Want to hear about weather and pollution.

[pure siren]

Not all train mods are dead yet.

[solemn cosmos]

i wanna hear about a new planet or biter

[raven bridge]

It's possible to almost kill LTN stuff using global network. Have drop stations increase value by max limit on station - trains routing here. Every load station opens when this value is > 0. Then reduce value by trains routing to the load station. This makes trains only go to load when unload is available, and not routed already. Some trains will go to load when not needed, but it's not a big deal.

[elder raptor]

what else would be needed to kill LTN?

[raven bridge]

What I said isn't exact

Actually, no. It's pretty good

Lets say 1 unload station opens, then 3 load stations open. When the first train starts routing, the count goes to 0 and the 3 stations close, but the first train keeps going

While the train is in the station it should be counted somehow, and then when it leaves, it's still counted as routing to the unload station.

So yea that's pretty much "dispatch when unload and load are open"

[magic crest]

It will release in 403 days... I think.

[topaz wing]

Was that the one that was increased by a day every time someone asked for the release date?

[magic crest]

It will release in 431 days... I think.

It will release in 529 days... I think.

It will release in 623 days... I think.

It will release in 831 days... I think.

It will release in 835 days... I think.

[grave crag]

Maybe

[magic crest]

The expansion will be released whenever Half-Life 3 comes out.

[small bear]

[topaz wing]

[sweet wind]

The only thing I can think of is having mixed-item stops in a generic interrupt based network

I don't think it's possible with the interrupt system from what we've been shown. It could be fairly simple if you could change the name of train stops

If you were okay with a max 4 inserters per item you could fairly easily do a 3-item mixed system by running 3 stops right on top of each other, which might serve most needs

[rugged onyx]

oof

[bold shard]

I guess I'll check back here on my 60th birthday

[desert lake]

Plot twist: This was the stack inserter recipe

[raven bridge]

Naa we'd need some inseter as base

[winged jolt]

Do quality modules require concrete and gears???

[raven bridge]

No?

[small bear]

this could be recipe of recycler

or it could be new recipe for rocket silo

since rocket is cheaper, perhaps silo is also simplified

[raven bridge]

My bet is on recycler

[sweet wind]

Because alt-mode is on, wouldn't the top of the image be the bottom of whatever is being recycled

looks kinda like the foundry

[grave crag]

What do you bet?
Recommendations: playing Factorio, not playing Factorio, making a mod

[solemn cosmos]

not the spaghetti belts 😭

[rugged onyx]

Speaking of belts, I'd love for wires to connect to splitters and undergrounds like they can to belts. You don't need a sushi memory cell if you can just read every belt

[pure siren]

Circuit-network-able Splitters is just the logical next step from programmable assemblers
I hope this comes

Just need to wait until Wube is done slaughtering train mods.

[raven bridge]

What other mods do you want Wube to graduate?

[pure siren]

Auto Deconstruct, Bottleneck, Chest Auto Sort, Dirt Path, Helmod, Mining Scars, Playtime, Blueprint Designer Lab, The Ruins Mod, Vehicle Snap

[raven bridge]

Auto deconstruct is finnicky when it comes to piped miners... but... how about we get a decon planner filter for "miner with no resources"?

Helmod is so user unfriendly that I don't think it should come in vanilla, especially when the Factory Planner dev works for Wube 😛

Chest auto sort I'd want. Possibly with a filter option.

Dirt path and mining scars are an interesting one, changing the environment by player actions. Interesting! Vehicle trains also makes sense here.

Instead of Playtime, how about Stats GUI? Also shows stuff like evolution, and estimated research time. Also made by a Wube dev 😛

Some sort of blueprint design indeed could be nice.

Ruins I'd love to see. Especially on the new planets!

Vehicle snap is great, or mayb even Simple Vehicle Physics (for some drifting)

[small bear]

iirc we have a workaround that if u just select deconstruct all miners and then ctrl+Z, those empty miners will be deconstructed

[raven bridge]

That's cool 🙂

[pure siren]

Wrote Helmod because that's what I'm using. Factory Planner I have installed but wasn't as easy to get the first usable results with. Doesn't have to be the exact implementation, it's more about the idea of planning a factory block before building it.

It's something I know will never come to vanilla though.

[raven bridge]

Still wondering about "the book"

[small bear]

BP library?

[raven bridge]

Naa that's the BP button the left

[small bear]

enemy wikipedia?

todo list

[raven bridge]

Recipe Book

[pure siren]

wiki integration?

(wild guess)

[pale pumice]

circuit-network-able splitters that can do what?

[raven bridge]

Change priority and filtered item I guess

You can get a similar effect with a very fast filtered inserter

[pure siren]

and set quality

[raven bridge]

Is it confirmed that we can send signals with quality conditions?

i.e. can we send a filter inserter a signal of "> " or even a "> " to use as a filter?

[small bear]

we should be able to, as we can set splitter filter by >=, so we must be able to set that to inserters , thus by signals

[pale pumice]

I suspect > will be hard-coded and you'll just set the signal value

Perhaps dedicated >, <, <=, >= signals that work like lamps

But you won't have those as part of the signals because that multiplies the signal count by 4 after already multiplying them by 5.

[grave crag]

cursor extensions

[raven bridge]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/CursorEnhancements you mean?

We are getting the "Smarter pipette" part of it, but I hope for the automatic ghost cursor.

[grave crag]

Yep
I'm addicted to picking stuff from everywhere

[grave crag]

And ghost cursor for signals

[raven bridge]

Oooh yes I want ghost cursor for signals

[grave crag]

And ctrl-right dragging on inventory filters

[small bear]

what’s ghost cursor

[small bear]

for signals?

[raven bridge]

Q on a signal and have in hand so you can put it in a signal slot instead of having to select it from a menu

[small bear]

ah

[grave crag]

And liquids

[bold shard]

ultimate research queue from raiguard

posting this pic of a 2.0 base map view from klonan so it doesn't get lost #friday-facts message

very interesting base design

[sweet wind]

Surely we get more Space Age content in today's fff

[elder raptor]

this is beautiful

fast tracks above, slow track below

[iron venture]

I'm going to go ahead and predict a roboport train wagon at some point

maybe not this week, but eventually

[raven bridge]

Double roundabout ftw

[subtle temple]

Prediction: we'll see a new planet and this one has ruins (or maybe even a new faction , a semi-dead AI stuck in a loop of continuously producing killer bots 🙀)

[pale pumice]

chances of your predictions: low, low^2, low^3

[raven bridge]

FFF today is about how we scan for new planets, and how we can choose our landing spot (map generator) when first unlocking a planet.
Also they will confirm Stack Inserter -> Stacking Inserter.

[pure siren]

will they also confirm Bulk Inserter -> Hulk Inserter?

[short roost]

FFF on more player accessories like personal robotports

[small bear]

I want to see tungsten

❤️

[raven bridge]

I want to tongue Stan

[small bear]

is probably the planet

[raven bridge]

Nobody won 😄

https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blog/fff-396-sound-madness-thumbnail-wide.png

We see , , , and foundry

[topaz wing]

I'm a big fan of the sound design though, i can't wait for the music fff too

[winged jolt]

I predict todays FFF will be about sound

[late venture]

Bit late for a prediction

[small bear]

this was technically a technical FFF, so next week has high chance to be a planet FFF

[rocky plover]

I've just had an idea I had to make it a prediction:

On (presumeable Bacchus), big tree. You can chop it down, then place a pumpjack on the stump, connected to its roots -> this is your main source of water for the entire planet.

Furthermore, the tree is very violent and objects to being chopped down so requires military equipment to help with the task.

[elder raptor]

My prediction for Bacchus enemies is that it'll be rampant vegetation connected in a sort of hivemind

Flamethrowers will be the best at dealing with those, but we'll unlock better gun turrets there (which will be mostly ineffective). On Fulgora, the enemies will be dispatched most effectively with gun turrets, and give laser turrets, which won't be very good at killing enemies there. And then Vulcanus will give new flamethrowers (which won't be very good on there) and have enemies weak to laser turrets.

[small bear]

why not give some love to combat bot capsules

[solemn cosmos]

maybe we will see them get buffed 🤷‍♂️

[small bear]

hum…. there were 9 FFFs between the two circuit network FFF (combinator 2.0 and programmable assemblers), and it has been 9 FFFs since the last planet FFF

I hope its a planet FFF next week, especially because today was a relatively technical one

[pale pumice]

that's silly speculation

[pure siren]

For a couple weeks I've heard "it's been x weeks since the last planet FFF, the next one will have new planet stuff because of that"

gamblers fallacy is what it's called

[elder raptor]

isn't that the point of this channel? 🤔

[rocky plover]

It would be gambler's falacy only if we assume that Wube chooses the next FFF by spinning a wheel and seeing what it lands on

[pure siren]

We can treat the topic choice as arbitrary because we don't know the mechanisms that drive topic choices.

They're random to us. If they weren't, predictions would be more accurate.

[raven bridge]

Prediction: it's taking Wube too long so we won't get SA stuff in a while

[pale pumice]

no, this channel is for speculation

[elder raptor]

FFF Speculations

and thus it is

[bold shard]

I suspect they're mostly laying out the technical groundwork, and then when release gets closer we'll be hit with nonstop content FFFs

think about it... we've only seen a handful of actual new items yet. its pretty much been all mechanics, engine upgrades, etc

[vagrant pumice]

I want to see the new pollution mechanics now that in vulcanus you can't pollute the normal way

and I think the other planets would have something like that, different ways to annoy the aliens

What if the aliens need the resources too so you would have to defend the ore patches more than your base?

[rugged onyx]

We've said that before....

[vagrant pumice]

never lose hope

[late venture]

The next planet FFF will happen when nobody here mentions planets for a week

[pure siren]

oof

[small bear]

[rocky plover]

That's called Starcraft

[vagrant pumice]

would be crazy if Wube made an RTS

[late venture]

I would not put it past them tbh

[rugged onyx]

Is this not already an RTS?

You have to invest resources into military and others into researches to unlock beefier militaries

[raven bridge]

It can't be, as I enjoy Factorio

[half mountain]

Just keep predicting a planet FFF and you’ll be an eventual winner.

And quite the opposite from a RTS, I’d love to be able to pause and think….

[iron venture]

I predict not a new planet FFF

Either I win or we all win

[lament rampart]

Bwuhuo in spring, Fulgora in summer, Aquilo at release

[raven bridge]

Aquilo is winter

[late venture]

They better be quick with it then

[topaz wing]

Maybe we will get one planet a year so it releases in 2026

[grave crag]

[elfin zenith]

<- still wishing for steam-powered locomotives for god knows why...

[violet willow]

yes because the generic assembler takes a signal for setting the recipe and we saw how it sets quality recipes

[sweet wind]

I think they're talking specifically about the ">= " conditions, not just the ability to set the quality of a signal

imo you won't be able to send them as a signal, it doesn't make sense to

[oak mirage]

Ability to Read

Only modders will understand.

Owner

steinio

Downloads

45

[short roost]

Next fff will be about why fffs are so important

[paper herald]

damn I'd love this, being able to pause time and still be able to interact with ghosts

FTL-esque take as much of a breather as you need to think about things

[topaz wing]

It would be nice if you could just pause and observe

[pure siren]

I've done this way too much in both FTL and RimWorld.

not so much the thinking about stuff, but rather gaining APM

[desert lake]

I would LOVE that pause upgrade

Specifically because of my experience with stellaris

I'm so used to staying paused for minutes at a time while I go around and set things in motion, with no time pressure at all

Right now I'm pretty sure you can't even open/close regular menus

[pure siren]

You can zoom the map in/out while paused.
This allows you to move around, when pointing the cursor at different spots while zooming.

[desert lake]

Yes, I knew that

Not much use when you can't actually do anything, though

[pure siren]

I think that's all you can do.

[bold shard]

how would speedruns work? game tick time, or true IRL time?

not sure how I feel about it, it would definitely make progression a lot easier and kindof remove a lot of the challenge with prioritizing what to do next

assuming you can place bps, change settings in assemblers/inserters, add waypoints to spidertrons, etc

[pure siren]

I know that I'm shit at FTL and RimWorld combat because of pausing a lot.

[paper herald]

would need them to add a second time number if they did that, "play time" as opposed to the current which is basically simulation time

play time just being simulation time + paused time

[raven bridge]

Speedruns in Factorio are RTC. It was an issue in 100% when they ran under 60 UPS so they optimized the builds for UPS 😄

Speedrunners play in a local multiplayer game so time doesn't stop when they science

[raven bridge]

This weeks FFF will be how gets "Recipe ingredients" (1x and Nx versions). How param BPs get stack size.
And of cousre how the new will be called Stacking inserters.

[bold shard]

hopefully new space stuff or items

[pale pumice]

You’re 100% off base because of the last prediction haha

[rocky plover]

I just scumsave as my way of looking around my base for a while to see how it's going. I then just reload the save when I want to get back to work.

[iron venture]

I think being unable to do stuff while paused is an intentional design choice. Factorio is a bit unique in that you don't have to be constantly doing stuff, you still make progress even if you're sitting still. Being unable to do anything while paused disincentivises pausing, which in turn incentivises players to build stuff that works without manual intervention.

aka if you spend 10 minutes designing a LDS factory while paused you're losing 10 minutes of factory production, so why pause?

[bold shard]

it would be huge if you have bots researched. you can be like skynet expanding as fast as your factory can produce the required ingredients. designing your main unloading stations, ore outposts, new production for whatever, all able to be bped in one game tick

[iron venture]

depends on how you see paused time. If you see it as play time then what you described isn't very efficient, if you see play time as only when the game is unpaused then sure it would make play time more efficient

[bold shard]

I mean you still need the game to progress lol. if such a mechanic was added to the game, you'd probably cycle between doing a paused batch of work, letting everything get built/start up, evaluate and build a list of changes of what needs to be done, and then do another paused batch

personally I wouldn't find this fun, I like reacting to the live world and prioritizing what is most important, all the while evolution ramps up and you're trying not to die

[sweet wind]

I think pausing time to make changes is an intuitive want for a game like factorio but I'd have to agree with DBrock, it doesn't actually benefit the player and would more likely harm the player through slowing down real-time progress.

[sweet wind]

and this 100%

[short roost]

Can you place ghosts or actual machines when paused?

Ghosts i think would be balanced

[pure siren]

can't even open the inventory when paused

[raven bridge]

A 1 UPS mod would be almost as good as paused

[small bear]

tbh u can observe while pausing. If u need do designs u can use editors

[violet willow]

yes, though it would feel amazing if pausing was polished further, currently i feel like it's just a duplicate of the Esc menu, if you can do stuff from Nauvis on other planets, i see no problem being able to do that while the game is paused

more like the editor simulation pause

[small bear]

I feel like the current pausing is an unnecessary feature

[scarlet bane]

Last stand starts playing

[void sapphire]

Considering how limited it is, I would agree. I understand the points made about just doing things in real time, but then why have the pause menu at all if it’s practically useless?

[arctic wasp]

Pause exists to let people in MP download a save and with minimal catchup afterwards

this is quite good if clients can barely maintain more UPS than the server

[bold shard]

definitely. but this is more about using pause as a time where you can actively do things in the game without ticks progressing (bp placing, assembler configuring, wires, etc) to give you an edge in some circumstances

[pure siren]

that would foil other people downloading a save tho

[bold shard]

yeah good point

[raven bridge]

What are we getting tmrw

[rain sonnet]

Information on what we unlock with Metalurgic science

[raven bridge]

New SA content then? It's been a bit low lately

[bold shard]

exactly the kind of time they'd choose to hit us with a big FFF

[topaz wing]

I'm not jinxing it this time so i'm saying we're getting a light fff

[rain sonnet]

I mostly think this because of last week's thumbnail: #1177597309572366396 message

[raven bridge]

Avocado belts

[bold shard]

you think they're going to keep that color or do something else?

[raven bridge]

There's not an uproar about the color compared to bulk/stack inserters. (Though I think they should be called stacking inserter, to emphasize the action of stacking)

[bold shard]

I get your point, but wouldn't that mean you have to change assembly -> assembling machine, and probably others I can't think of on the fly

....I stand corrected

[raven bridge]

Exactly 🙂

[sweet wind]

idk semantically stack and stacking both work. It's either moving items in stacks, or it does the action of stacking depending on how you look at it

[iron venture]

stacking does help differentiate between 1.1 stack inserters and the new inserters

[zinc wing]

Glad that all inserters can filter soon

[sweet wind]

Inserters generally are named after an attribute not an action. Filter (rip), Burner, Fast, Bulk, etc so stacking would feel out of place

[pure siren]

filterting, burning, fasting, bulking inserter all work though

[sweet wind]

Fasting inserter doesn't pick up items during the day

[raven bridge]

Bulking inserters really work out

[sweet wind]

Burning inserters are just on fire and constantly take damage

[lament rampart]

Filtering inserters are powered by water barrels full of plankton

[raven bridge]

Burnering inserters

[cursive reef]

What's the usualy'o'clock for the fff posts?

[topaz wing]

1 pm CET

[cursive reef]

<t:1707480000:t> <t:1707480000:R> this?

[topaz wing]

yes

[pale pumice]

wtf, FFF in 2 hours

how the hell

[raven bridge]

Yes

Today it will be...... graphical effects?

[small bear]

more space platform construction animation!

[topaz wing]

Yeah we haven't seen how buildings are constructed. I think it was said somewhere that they were getting a scaffolding animation too

I expect something similar to how buildings are created in Cities Skylines

[small bear]

I wonder if has petroleum ocean

and we get reverse oil cracking recipes to get light and heavy oil

[cursive reef]

more ENEMIES

[bold shard]

⏱️ almost there

[small bear]

I guess today will be some quality signal details

or new planet

[small bear]

and quality recipes

ah

expanded tooltip itis

[bold shard]

I feel like with a FFF like this showing glimpses of new content, they're setting the stage for the next FFFs to be released

outlook: hopeful

[raven bridge]

YES

[small bear]

this tho

[void sapphire]

4am for me, doing a little light reading on the next FFF!

[cursive reef]

Cool

[topaz wing]

True, a lot of teasing in this one and also a new planet icon

[raven bridge]

At least we have "the book"

[small bear]

so this basically says calcite + acid = steam, no byproducts

and we know its 500C steam

now I wonder how much stone, iron and copper can we expect to get from rocks?

[subtle temple]

🤔 I guess this is another speculation

[pure siren]

I'm pretty sure it's a hard requirement, similar to the recipe for space science in space.

Can only make it in zero G.

oh, and the Foundry is Vulcanus exclusive too. Hopefully it can fit in a rocket.

same for the Big Drill

[raven bridge]

I think it must, because they said "bringing one to nauvis should feel good" or whatever

[pure siren]

ye, I remember something like that

I'm sure we can ship it. Molten metal recipes are not Vulcanus exclusive.

Not sure were we would get Lava from, so they might be implicitly exclusive ..

[raven bridge]

There's a recipe to melt ores, it's in the list

[subtle temple]

I think it breaks immersion to have an explicit hard limit

"you can craft this here.... because I say so!
Is different to like how Space exploration does it with assembling machines made for zero-G having an implicit limit by allowing different recipies than the ones planetside

[pure siren]

makes sense that those aren't an intermediate step from lava to molten metal

[pure siren]

with the Foundry requiring Tungsten Carbide as ingredient, it might be more efficient to ship the product

[subtle temple]

yes, that's exactly it, that would be a soft limit!

[pure siren]

we might get a lore reason as to why it is that way

[raven bridge]

Depends on what this means

Is it exclusive in general, or just unlocked there

Hmm seems to be "using ingredients from this planet"

[topaz wing]

It seems you can use the buildings on all planets but maybe it needs to be build on Vulcanus and then shipped?

[topaz wing]

Also interesting that Cliff explosives aren't on here

[pure siren]

It doesn't say "unlocked there".
The Vulcanus science being on that list supports this list meaning "made on Vulcanus"

[topaz wing]

Vulcanus science is also unlocked on Vulcanus through trigger technologies

[subtle temple]

Made oin China Vulcanus

[small bear]

they probably rely on high local temperature to process tungsten ingredients and to get high temperature steam

so those buildings probably need tungsten intermediates to craft

[pure siren]

would be a good lore reason to hard limit those recipes to Vulcanus

[small bear]

as for tungsten, u can’t ship them because they’re too heavy

just kidding

[subtle temple]

tyngststen

[raven bridge]

I mean, a big miner will be heavier than tungsten

[topaz wing]

Ships nuclear reactors instead

[small bear]

but it would be pointless if there no recipe that need tungsten ingredients outside

so there’s no need to limit shipping tungsten out

maybe on the last planet we need to process all the new ingredients from the early planets

[subtle temple]

it really IS heavy though

[topaz wing]

I don't think there will be a hard limit, as making shipping expensive will be a limit of itself, and allow the player more strategies

[small bear]

I think gameplay wise it makes sense for it to be hard limits

[subtle temple]

it would be less clutter because you'd have fewer recipes to choose from

[pure siren]

If we can ship the Foundry, we will be able to ship the other presumed specialist buildings as well.
So we can make all rocket ingredients the easy way on all planets, reducing rocket costs.

which makes a lot more sense, gameplay wise, compared to making boatloads of LDS on Vulcanus to ship them to all other planets.

[small bear]

we know we can ship foundries to other planets as it’s mentioned in FFF

[raven bridge]

Moving a ton of belts from would definitely make things slower

[pure siren]

yeah, this was meant as a response to @topaz wing s point about expensive shipping

[small bear]

those belts are probably expensive thus shipping fee is not that huge compared to the belts themselves

[bold shard]

my best guess is an antenna to receive signals, so they can be broadcast long distance without a connecting wire, or cross-surface

cross surface signal communication will almost certainly be a mechanic

[subtle temple]

wasn't that more or less confirmed in this? https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-382

[raven bridge]

Not really? Where do you see communication?

[subtle temple]

I don't remember, what I wrote was more of an open question

No, I remembered it wrong:

I somehow got it to this being able to send/receive between each other:

nvm

[topaz wing]

Have the devs commented/leaked anything new since yesterday? About the meaning of "exlusive" for example

[desert lake]

We have all been wondering that

If somebody knew, it wouldn't take long for everyone to know

[topaz wing]

yes, that's why i asked

[elder raptor]

I think that's one of the things we won't learn until a future FFF tells us

[pure siren]

Why name it "exclusive" when it's supposed to mean "unlocked here".

[desert lake]

I'm sticking with "has to be crafted there" because of so many recipes that are clearly unlocked on vulcanus not being counted as exclusive

I mean, ore melting is practically the opposite, it's completely useless on vulcanus itself, you only "unlock" it for use on other planets

[topaz wing]

That's true

And if you can then use the melted metal casting on other planets then those recipes aren't exclusive either

Nevermind that's not in the exclusive tab

[desert lake]

And we already knew before that the devs intended the planet sciences to be made on the planets and then shipped by rocket, and we were already introduced to the concept of a science pack only being craftable in a specific environment (new space science)

And then we see orange science on the vulcanus exclusive list

[topaz wing]

I think it also makes more sense to make these buildings on Volcanus as they're all likely to use Tungsten. So you would ship the buildings off-planet instead of raw tungsten

[elder raptor]

Also, I will point out, somewhat unrelated, that calcite is considered a good export. So there's clearly recipes unlocked on that can be used elsewhere (and are worth exporting ore)

[desert lake]

It will be so odd to send train shipments into mining outposts and not the other way around

[elder raptor]

We don't even know what calcite is used for, aside from turning into steam

[topaz wing]

We know it's used for casting metal in the foundry

[elder raptor]

Oh right

[desert lake]

Not casting, melting

[topaz wing]

That's probably also why we would export it

[elder raptor]

Somehow I thought that was stone, but that's the byproduct

[pure siren]

Electric furnaces are for when you want to be nice to biters.
Foundry is for when you hate them.

[topaz wing]

Did the miners need something to function? Or do you mean calcite if you''re smelting on-site?

[desert lake]

Melting the ore and then piping the molten metal back to base to be cast

Will likely be proven as extremely impractical once 2.0 comes out, but I think it's a cool thought

[topaz wing]

Yeah it depends a bit on the raw ore to molten ore ratio, considering a fluid train can hold 25000. Maybe it will be very efficient

[desert lake]

Molten iron and copper seem, at the very least, considerably easier to handle inside the base

Instead of belts of plates

Across long distances compared to trains, we'll just have to wait to be able to test

[pure siren]

fill it in barrels and put it on a belt

[topaz wing]

Imagine if 1 raw ore turned into 1 molten ore, you could hold 6 times the amount of ore in a fluid wagon compared to a cargo wagon

Probably not the case though

[desert lake]

I wasn't thinking about wagons

I meant really, really long pipelines, with lots of pumps

[topaz wing]

Pipes don't work that well over long distances right?

[bold shard]

they work if you're ensuring pumps are close enough so throughput is good

[desert lake]

I mean of course, this is already possible with oil, and there is a reason people still use fluid wagons instead

But maybe the high quantities of molten metals compared to the output low-yield oil fields will make a difference?

[desert lake]

6? I thought it was 12

40 slots, times 50 ore in a stack, is 2k

[topaz wing]

Yeah you're right, i have my numbers wrong

[desert lake]

I still remember doing the math comparing coal to oil for my cityblock

[short roost]

armor slots and things to put in there next is my guess

[small bear]

more weapon switching options so I can have more weapon slots and a toggle key to switch between the main two, and other interactions to adjust which two is the main one, or scroll through each weapon

like how changing quickbar rows work

[short roost]

That would mean adding more weapons and making them useful in specific situations

[elfin zenith]

The next FFF MUST be about a steam-powered locomotive!

<- forever wishing

[raven bridge]

Or generally fluid powered locos I guess

[bold shard]

imagine trains having a fluid storage for liquid fuel, functioning like a smaller normal fluid storage tank

that would be really cool

[raven bridge]

Modular locomotives, where you could swap the fuel chamber

[desert lake]

“Man I wish we could power things with oil fluids/barrels/whatever”

Every time I hear this a piece of me dies

Because it’s literally a thing in the game already, but people just don’t recognize it as such because the devs made the utterly bizzare design decision that is “solid fuel”

If solid fuel was named “fuel oil”, and its sprite was a canister of gasoline, we would literally be living in a utopia right now

This is the 3rd time I’ve said this in this server, and I am aware of that

When I find the time, I am going to learn factorio modding and reskin it myself

It really bothers me that much

[bold shard]

lol

I wish trains used liquid fuel in general since it would make more sense, but it is what it is

its one of those aspects of the game that is simplified, just like the physics behind rocket launches which was discussed a few days ago in the FFF channel

[desert lake]

I feel like maybe you didn’t get what I meant

Gameplay wise, solid fuel is perfectly alright

[bold shard]

I understood what you meant, I just don't agree with your assessment

[desert lake]

Oh that’s fine then

[bold shard]

its not about changing the sprite/name, but rather using fluid as the mechanic

but its probably not changing, and I'm not dying on this hill arguing to change it lol

which is why "it is what it is"

[desert lake]

Yes, it’s as you said, the devs handled it in item form purely for simplicity’s sake

[bold shard]

there is far more I like about the game than I dislike, and this is one of those small compromises which in the grand scheme of me enjoying the game don't really matter

🤷‍♂️

[dapper bough]

Sticking with non-liquid based fuels allows you to begin with coal-powered locomotives, which does provide a realistic form of energy source for some kinds of trains!

[pure siren]

steam engines are fueled by solid fuels, I see nothing wrong with the current design

[elfin zenith]

ahem
They ALSO need water for steam.

[pure siren]

Haven't put steam in my locomotives so far and they keep driving around happily.

[iron venture]

I’m feeling fulgora intro

[elder raptor]

agreed

[desert lake]

Did you… forget to switch accounts, or?

[bold shard]

Nah, no one does stuff like that

[bold shard]

good point

[lilac arrow]

im hoping for vulcanus enemies

[dapper bough]

Oh, touché

[elder raptor]

no lol, I was agreeing by pointing to me saying the same thing a lil while ago

[rugged onyx]

I still think that is a radio tower, perhaps one that transmits signals on a frequency that can then be received by another tower that you can share circuit networks over long distances

That silly icon we haven't had explained yet that looks like a fat power pole

[raven bridge]

That will be next FFF

We're getting lower and lower on leaked images

[pure siren]

I think they're for "communication" between ground and Platforms in orbit. Need to know when/which items to drop somehow. And vice versa.

That might extend to connecting circuit wires planet wide and/or between planets.

[raven bridge]

I think that's done automatically with logistic groups

https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/blog-sync/fff-382-rocket-silo-gui.png

"Requests for space platform"

[pure siren]

hmm

[short roost]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

Time to add electric ones i guess

They would probably need special tracks

[dapper bough]

I think I was reading that they wouldn’t follow Factorio’s typical design of “greater complexity for greater power”. Instead, this would be “less complexity for greater power”

[hoary timber]

Additional power production would be cool.

[wanton swift]

I think this week's Friday Facts will be sort of bigger new content (more than just QoL).
Perhaps info on one of the other new planets, or the enemies on Vulcanos

[raven bridge]

They seem to have seasons of SA content, and QoL content. So it makes sense after the teases from last week strewn in the FPedia. More content for videos!

[cursive cave]

Plus, electric trains wouldn't be evil enough for our protagonist. 😛

[pale pumice]

Many of us in here joke about betting on the FFFs, it's funny that you have an actual financial incentive for them to be impactul haha

[wanton swift]

Part of me would love more train types, and the other part really doesn't want more types of trains that can hunt me down lol

[wanton swift]

Haha yeah. Although it's not necessarily super cut and dry. Some of my vids on the QoL ones have actually done better than some of the super impactful big feature ones

[pale pumice]

I'm actually reasonably surprised by that. I hope the FFF lottery does you well :)

[bold shard]

nice to see you here, I really enjoy your FFF videos 🔥

[wanton swift]

Thanks! 🙂

I hope to be spending more time here. So many different things and places to keep up with, it's easy to forget to drop in lol

[bold shard]

if nothing else, try to drop in on the FFF channel around when the blog post comes out

devs are always in the channel around that time answering questions, clarifying stuff, etc

[wanton swift]

For sure! Ive noticed I definitely have missed some good info in there

[raven bridge]

Modular locomotives, where you could choose if you want solid fuels or liquid fuels

[pale pumice]

Is this FFF speculations, or FFF wish-list?

I suspect you're reasonably sure that's not on the menu

[short patio]

I think a construction train, with included roboports and the ability to access the train inventory, will be one of the things included in SA.
Spidertrons are being moved deeper into the tech tree, preventing remote building that's not around roboports until much further into the game.
When you're on another planet, managing your base remotely is a priority, as has been mentioned in a few FFFs. While you could construct and deconstruct outposts and such by chaining roboports, this encourages bad base design and is overall clunky. A construction train allows for construction across large distances in a way that encourages smart base design and automation.
Refueling trains if they run out of fuel on the tracks has been mentioned as one thing that you can now do remotely, but this would be incredibly niche for most bases since you do not have roboport coverage of the majority of your tracks, and the odds of fuel being available close to a given roboport network are really low with the way refueling stations are now implemented. A builder train allows you to refuel stuck trains easily
The 4 new planets are the gate to lots of new upgrades. Would each upgrade to your tech require you to revisit all previous planets in order to install the new stuff, if the tech doesn't require the planet-specific resources? Mostly thinking of the trigger tech you get for going to a new planet, like the big mining drill. If you're limited to what you can do with roboports, it would be super tedious to change large portions of your base if it's spread apart like most train bases are. And you'd need to build a rocket on the new planet in order to get back
It would provide a way to repair and shore up defenses when you haven't set up automated resupply with a wall with roboport coverage.

Remotely setting up new outposts would be incredibly helpful in SA, and locking that ability to train tracks provides a good limit which can be later surpassed with spidertrons

[raven bridge]

Do note they addressed the concave base issue with bots. It's still not recommended, but it implies they had that issue in their playtests.

That said, a roboport wagon would indeed be useful.

[solemn cosmos]

ohboy i sure do home we get a planet fff

[bold shard]

even if train carriages could have equipment slots, that would largely fix this problem. the only missing piece is the radar then. perhaps it can be a piece of powered equipment, and it doesn't scan chunks. perhaps smaller active area too, so it consumes less power

[pure siren]

Doesn't have to be a planet FFF. Factoriopedia had lots of interesting info as a side.

[raven bridge]

Equipment slots for trains would be a bit too similar to spiders

[bold shard]

whats wrong with that?

you can balance it with a smaller grid

and at the end of the day, its still stuck to the tracks

[raven bridge]

It's interesting that bots will be able to move bots from one roboport to another, at construction range, rather than logistic range

[short patio]

Right, it's possible to do entirely remote building with solely the existing roboport construction stuff. It's just extremely awkward if you want to construct anything that's far away from your central mall

And it encourages bad base design

[raven bridge]

You just need to construct the rails, and use a builder train to do the main lifting

Still not perfect

[short patio]

You need to set all that up beforehand if you want to utilize it, it doesn't properly address the problem of managing your base remotely if you're not going back to it for several hours

[raven bridge]

Well you can build it all with bots

[short patio]

Right, this would likely be something you unlock well before spiders, and spiders would be an overall upgrade once you get far down the tech tree

[raven bridge]

Then have straight sections as distinct bot networks

[bold shard]

one positive thing from this if you're constrained in this way early-mid game is it reinforces good design techniques/practices, meaning whatever you build has to remain working/stable even if you can't intervene

[raven bridge]

Outposting is still not going to be trivial

[bold shard]

granted you can still fix stuff within radar view with roboports, but its limited with outposts like you said

yeah, you'll definitely want resupply trains automated with repair packs, walls, etc

[short patio]

I think that it would punish going to space too early. You get space tech at like blue science, and going to new planets should be something that's easy and painless to do. If you need to have all these systems set up before you go to the new planets, then you're somewhat punished for rushing to space

[raven bridge]

You're gonna want along with space. Requires the same itema anyway

[short patio]

You would need to set up rockets on the new planet just so you can do maintenance on Nauvis, which feels worse than coming back because you have a bunch of goodies that you can upgrade your base with

[raven bridge]

Well, it's meant for veterans of the vanilla game

Also, on the 3 middle planets, you can rebuild from scratch.

[short patio]

It is, yes. I don't think a construction train is a design necessity, but it would help with a number of potential problems

[bold shard]

I think the devs designed it purposely of having a high upfront cost to go to space/colonize other planets, but you'll eventually snowball and get massive gains from each of the planets (and their tech)

with that said, I fully intend on near-maxing research before going to my first planet as well as building up production, just so life isn't as painful lol

I want and whatever other goodies that will help

[raven bridge]

I'll just set up my standard wall defense and fly

is possible, but not a must

[small bear]

most early infinite research are probably gated by tho

so there’s a high chance you will do it before space

or even start making it remotely while u r traveling in space

[bold shard]

elevated rail is behind as well. as awesome as Vulcanus is, its not going to be fun having to weave the rails through whatever little opening in the cliffs

[small bear]

also across lava

[pale pumice]

How would this actually be possible?

[small bear]

there might be many weird edge cases where this is awkward

also it encourages confusing logi coverage design for logi bots

[sweet wind]

It was mentioned before but I see little reason to not set up and before leaving Nauvis. You will already have all the ingredients necessary from launching the rocket, space platform, outposts and getting bots (too good to not setup) so you can just let it run at whatever speed you're able to produce them.

[sweet wind]

You'd have to tell them to do it manually, but bots can interact with inventories for you just like the character at your command.

[bold shard]

like we discussed earlier, outposts will be the difficult thing to build if you're on another planet and haven't research spidertron, while in base on the other hand is much easier. so if you're going to leave nauvis 'early' to go to another planet, it would make sense to overbuild your outposts, which leaves the base stuff able to be done with the logi network with relative ease. and don't forget the new remote interactions, which also simplifies this.

[sweet wind]

I was more thinking you'll probably have automated rail before leaving the planet, either to get oil or tap into another vein or two nearby.
Even without logistics chests you could use bots to remotely restock miscellaneous items in a nearby outpost, wouldn't be reasonable for longer distances though.

I realise I misread your point about overbuilding outposts, but I do agree

[bold shard]

once the game actually releases and we aren't just speculating, soon enough there will probably be some commonly agreed upon set of minimum tech to have before leaving nauvis, just so you're adequately prepared for whatever challenges exist on all of the planets.

[sweet wind]

No doubt, but for my 2c the minimum will be construction bots and a provider mall. Theoretically you can then do any additional development remotely, although at greater difficulty

As for what is practical? I don't see why you wouldn't just research everything non-infinite you can before leaving.

[bold shard]

I think the devs call it slow rolling, but thats exactly how I plan to do my SA playthrough. besides, I actually want to enjoy the scenery and the new stuff, not just speedrun through all of the planets lol. and when it comes time to colonize and the rest, I'm taking the kitchen sink with me so it can immediately grow into a substantial base... and of course all of the extra tech will make it that much smoother. 🙂

[sweet wind]

I dislike the early game anyway, so bringing the kitchen sink sounds quite refreshing. I sure don't want to be sitting around waiting and hand feeding things more than once

[iron venture]

I think they've already covered everything of import, probably just filler until release

[sweet wind]

Your statement has be befuddled.

[topaz wing]

Yeah it's not like they have 3 more planets to show us

[pale pumice]

Yes, but you'd never be able to have a roboport in construction range that isn't just in logistics range?

That was my point

[sweet wind]

Yes you can? there's nothing stoping you from disconnecting the networks

Otherwise it's kind of definitional, every roboport is in its own logistics range

[pale pumice]

Can you show me an image of a roboport in the construction range of another roboport?

[sweet wind]

I mean I could, but you could also just place one?

[pale pumice]

I don't believe it to be possible. - given that both roboports are powered.

[pale pumice]

I can't see a way to have a roboport in the construction range of another without them connecting.

In fact, I think this is deliberate game design - IE the reason we have seperate construction and logistic ranges

[sweet wind]

You missed out the without them connecting part haha

[raven bridge]

FFF in 2 days. Speculations?

My speculation is more new content. More or new planet.
Also, stack -> stacking inserters.

[pale pumice]

I yearn for more space

[half tree]

new planet 👿

[pure siren]

stack -> stacking inserters.
doubt it, but more likely than another fluid system rework

[raven bridge]

<-- I still believe

[obsidian hawk]

will the disco planet leak from previous week be explicited ?

[raven bridge]

Maybe not this week, but we might get more leaks

[small bear]

I’d love to see tungsten products explained

[raven bridge]

Metallurgic sciences

I'd like to understand what "exclusive recipes" actually means

[rugged onyx]

I want new features, not improved features

Call me spoiled

[pure siren]

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/exclusive

[short patio]

I'm rather certain that we will get an equipment grid piece that produces energy from nuclear fuel, probably researched with space science. I believe fusion reactors were mentioned as one of the things moved further into the tech tree, and a combination of: planets that have lower solar irradiance than Nauvis, extended mid game, and uranium used in space science all make me conclude that we need a power source for our suits that is better than solar panels but before fusion reactors.

Solar on vulcanus would be fine, but unless Nauvis is the most distant planet from the sun except for the fourth and final planet (unlikely), even worse solar panels would be incredibly painful to use for an extended period

[pure siren]

Fission in our personal equipment grids is kinda hazardous. But so is Fusion.
Requiring fuel for higher power/tile density is something I'd appreciate.

[rugged onyx]

Factorio has a slapdash tech held together by tig welds and duct tape feel to it, so a makeshift fusion reactor is a nice vibe, though I think there should be a small chance every time you take damage, like 0.1% chance, you blow up and everything for 3 chunks around also blows up

[small bear]

remember we have equipments

[short patio]

Possible, but the devs have said that the expansion is designed to be playable without quality at all

And I have a hard time imagining that using solar for over a dozen hours is considered super playable if you're expected to set up industry on several planets before getting fusion

Also also: if the tech tree is getting significantly extended then it makes a lot of sense to add more mid-gane tech, stuff that's somewhat worse than the stuff we have in late game vanilla

[small bear]

factorio is playable without power armor

[short patio]

You can beat the game without power armor. I don't know that it's all that playable for a typical player

[vocal rock]

it totally is playable

[small bear]

also personal solar gives roughly 45% power (if consider day cycle average) per grid tile compared to portable fusion, its not that bad, not mentioned there are solar modifiers

on Vulcanus, solar is stronger than fusion

on other planets with weak solar, they’re probably more late game or have compensations

[small bear]

Vulcanus have super short day (1.5min) which means u don’t need much battery capacity to even the personal solar power which makes them even stronger

[short patio]

Half as much power plus you need more batteries to make them consistently usable

Less of an issue on vulcanus, yes

[lament rampart]

where was that said?

[short patio]

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-375

It's also worth noting that while it's a lot of fun to play with quality, using it is completely optional. The expansion is balanced in a way that using quality can be beneficial, but it is reasonable to finish the game without touching quality at all. Typically, people who want to just finish the game are more likely to not touch quality much, while those who want to build a big factory will have very good reasons to use it.

[lament rampart]

oh, right..

I was just thinking of this: #friday-facts message

ive noticed quality has the biggest impact on the space platforms, it better to have 1 platform with rare components then 100 platforms with normal components

[bold shard]

sounds kindof like an exaggeration

3-6x better, sure. 100x, doubt

[obsidian hawk]

next FFF : 93% of platforms without quality items explode into space

[lament rampart]

aight, that's what I thought, but wondered if there could be some kind of effect where multiple higher quality things multiply the overall efficiency or somethin

[bold shard]

quality items can definitely multiply together. assemblers and speed modules for instance

1.3x * 1.3x = ~1.7x for

[short patio]

I think it will be somewhat exponential, because e.g. higher quality solar panels use less platforms while producing more power, producing a more than linear improvement in speed. But the overall effect won't be so enormous that one or two high quality space platforms trivially outperform a fleet of normal quality ones

[lament rampart]

gotcha, thanks

[bold shard]

with that said, if there is some unknown item/mechanic that would allow that vast of difference between two platforms, I wouldn't complain lol

it would be fun grinding to build some endgame motherships that vastly outperform the rest of the platforms

[raven bridge]

Speculation: 1 music track per new planet, and 1 for space.

[keen scaffold]

biter dating simulator for the valentines fff

[raven bridge]

Catching biters in bitercapsules

[pure siren]

make them fight each other

[rugged onyx]

❤️

[raven bridge]

and give them guns

[iron venture]

One way to look at space platform speed is how much cargo space your platform has for a given speed (set platform amount for each engine power). Platforms need engines, electical power, resource processing, and asteroid defense. If we take a 500 platform to engine ratio and say everything else takes up 460 tiles leaving 40 tiles for cargo with normal quality, and then shrink the space needed for quality stuff by 37.5% (rare quality gives a 60% bonus which translates to 37.5% less machines needed for the same output) we get 288 tiles for non-cargo and 212 tiles for cargo, over 5x the cargo. Then we can add on another 300 tiles worth of power for a quality engine and we have a total of 512 tiles for cargo, over 10x the amount for normal quality at the same speed

Obviously it doesn't work perfectly like that, but a 8x bonus doesn't seem completely unreasonable

[short patio]

I doubt it will work out that well. You have some baseline tiles used for logistics, which can be lessened by quality but not by the same amount as the general quality boost. Also i think that if you're aiming for large throughput, there will be a significantly higher cargo:non-cargo ratio. The mathematical improvement possible is a lot less if cargo is taking up closer to half of your tiles to begin with

A low cargo:non-cargo platform will be very fast, but for interplanetary logistics you will typically not need fast, you need high throughput, which means slow ships that have lots of cargo

Another way to state is that high quality stuff can make a fast ship have way better cargo capacity, but cannot give the same level of boost to a slow ship that already has lots of cargo capacity

[pure siren]

which means slow ships that have lots of cargo
why not fast ships with little cargo?

[short patio]

Because they would have high cost but not transport as much cargo overall

[pure siren]

you can't say that without having actual numbers

[short patio]

We know that overall ship speed takes linear speed penalty with the number of tiles in the ship, IIRC. By itself this means that a basic platform is incentivized to have a higher cargo:non-cargo ratio than indicated in the post I replied to; a platform that has 10% of its tiles dedicated to cargo could transport twice as much at only a slightly slower pace by doubling that ratio

Take a ship that has 10% dedicated to cargo and one that has 50%. The latter would need to be at least 5x slower than the first to have lower throughput, but that would require a huge speed penalty for only ~40% more tiles

[pure siren]

we don't know how scaling the size of a ship affects it speed afaik

or how much cargo % we can expect

[short patio]

It would need to be something like exponential in order to justify low cargo:non-cargo ratios, which would really just mean small ships

[pure siren]

I meant more how the cargo/non-cargo ratio shifts due to scaling effects of the mini-factory on the platform, including its infrastructure

[pure siren]

meant to write it differently. guess I'm hella tired

[short patio]

Right, but the overall point remains about the same: you would need a very heavy disincentive to add cargo capacity in order to justify low cargo:non-cargo ratios for platforms that are intended for throughput

[pure siren]

I know that min/maxing can lead to very surprising designs.

There're too many unknown variables for giving definitive answers.

[short patio]

True

[pure siren]

And with that I should probably go to bed :)

sweet dreams

[elfin zenith]

PLEASE, LORD ABOVE, GIVE US STEAM LOCOS FOR FACTORIO

[late venture]

Do they explode when they run out of water?

[desert lake]

You want electric trains so you don’t have to fuel trains

I want electric trains so I don’t have to run power poles together with rails

We are not the same

[bold shard]

who else gets the feeling tomorrow will be good

[candid pawn]

[sick pond]

I'm with you.

I just hope that if they have secrets they want players to find themselves, they keep them that way.

[short patio]

Yeah, they did 2 qol FFFs together, next one is hopefully something new and impactful

[pure siren]

Last weeks FFF was new and impactful. And I'm not talking about the Factoriopedia.
People were questioning the meaning of "exclusive" for days.

[short patio]

I must have missed that

[desert lake]

For me it seems like a stupid thing to think about

Because there are two outcomes

1. It’s interesting
2. It’s easy

Neither seems like it would particularly bother me

[raven bridge]

Today will be a boring FFF

(I only say that so I'm pleasantly surprised if it's exciting)

[lilac arrow]

in 2 hours

i'm high on hopium rn

[elder raptor]

Earendel is around

[raven bridge]

Yes

So it is a big one

Will it be more or will it be a new planet?

[elder raptor]

I hope new planet

[raven bridge]

The pastel colored one?

[bold shard]

the boring colored one!

[raven bridge]

Someone speculated we'll get a planet that was overrun by pollution... here we go then

[bold shard]

are approaching lightning storms the interrupt somehow, so trains can shelter around some kind of protection?

[raven bridge]

Yah

[hoary timber]

Well new planet

[raven bridge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/198pj33/dlc_speculation_trash_planet/

[hoary timber]

Damn good prediction

Not 100% but very close.

[wanton swift]

Man, can't believe they teased us so much and gave no real details on what we can do/get there lol

[hoary timber]

The idea basically on point.

Earendel big tease this week 🙂

[small bear]

hum… so it is very likely we will recycle the scraps from previous civilization to get basic materials

[hoary timber]

Guessing yeah.

[small bear]

this is probably the planet where u unlock recyclers

[hoary timber]

Yeah that makes sense.

[raven bridge]

We have predictions though. Mineable circuits. Power from lightning, oil mud...

[small bear]

metal products from scrap, water, oil and stone from mud?

power mainly from lighting could be interesting

[topaz wing]

Now we also know the rough time between planet fff's. We can probably expect Bwuhuo in may and the last planet in august

[raven bridge]

We had a speculation that the last planet reveal will come with the release announcement, leaving some things for discovery

This timeline makes sense

Following reveal, next week will be mechanics

[hoary timber]

Yeah like before

[raven bridge]

We'll see new buildings and materials

Possibly explaining the lightning mechanics

[bold shard]

have devs confirmed/elaborated on anything the last few hours?

[raven bridge]

Nothing real

[bold shard]

what a cool planet though. so many cool possibilities for mechanics

[lilac arrow]

is anything real though

looks at hands

[raven bridge]

Thanks Jaden

[lilac arrow]

is- is jaden someone i'm supposed to know ?

[raven bridge]

Jaden Smith famously said "How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?"

He's also Will Smith's child

[lilac arrow]

the more you know

[bold shard]

vs : the question now is what makes fulgora a viable candidate for your first planet to visit

[lilac arrow]

well it really depends on what the devs give us next week

[bold shard]

abundant/mineable intermediates perhaps?

yep

[lilac arrow]

the people in #friday-facts are speculating that we'll be able to mine the weird colorful piles to get (maybe broken) electronic circuits, and then put them in the recycler

[bold shard]

yeah, perhaps the recycler IS the resource provider . there can be different grades of tech junk/trash that recycle into a variety of different things

[lilac arrow]

which would be an awesome way to use the recycler btw, so it's more than just an external productivity module for quality stuff

[bold shard]

yeah absolutely

[lilac arrow]

i wonder if we'll be able to use the weird lightning rods things to generate power

depending on how much of it it generates it could potentially be infinte free power

so huge benefit to fulgora as first alien planet

[bold shard]

maybe its a planet exclusive thing, but taking that one step further, how could that be of benefit on nauvis/another planet?

[lilac arrow]

bring full accumulators by rocket

[bold shard]

lol

[raven bridge]

Intermittent power, and possibly buildings that require a zap to work.

[lilac arrow]

i don't know if that is extremely silly or extremely cool, but i love it

my first thought seeing the video was that the lightning would make it so that you cant use things made of metal

[raven bridge]

You just need to pepper the base in rods to capture the lightning

[desert lake]

What if: The s originated on Fulgora, built their stuff, overpolluted and ruined everything… And then moved off-planet, leaving Fulgora behind and settling on Aquilo?

It would be interesting, to find the remains of a civilisation on one planet, and when you move on to the next you discover that they actually lived

Of course it’s obvious this won’t happen, wiping out animalistic biters is quite a few levels below waging actual war with a whole civilisation

[bold shard]

or which might be their homeworld

[small bear]

I doubt if u can mine real intermediates like from scrap fields as I would expect them to be destroyed by the mining process, and they could be already before being mined. U can probably just get ‘scrap’ that can be recycled to give certain basic materials

[desert lake]

I said it already in the fff channel, but I will say it again because it’s technically a prediction

I believe these are the results of recycling scrap

Every resource (except oil, but including plastic) can be obtained with just a few recycles of these materials, but you can also stop mid way for ready-made circuits

Just like vulcanus, concrete for rocket silos is specifically given a new way of obtaining it, due to iron ore not being present

And blue chips are a rocket component, and we know the devs wanted to make certain rocket components easier to manufacture on other planets

[pure siren]

We can export the Foundry to other places to have the easy LDS on all planets.
Exporting the Recycler does not give us easy Blue Circuits on all planets.

There must be some other way.

[desert lake]

Ooh, good point, I didn’t think of it that way…

Still, blue circuits give both red and green when recycled, so I think most of my point still stands, the devs could have put them there for that reason alone

[pure siren]

Probably has to do with the pineapple crafter teased in FFF-372

[pure siren]

You're not the only one thinking Fulgora gives easy BC by mining them ;)

It's a valid point.

[pale pumice]

There's precedent for it. It's exactly how Vulcanus worked. If the past is anything to go on, the next two FFFs should be Fulgora main mechanics, and Fulgora 'prizes'

[pure siren]

I just had an idea: Vulcanus gives us [redacted] belts. Doesn't necessarily mean we get belt stacking there as well.

[pale pumice]

I'm not sure how I feel about recyclers being a mainstay part of the production line.

I'm personally hopeful it's not recycling, or perhaps my mind will be changed, who knows

I'm having a hard time imagining it being fun.

[pale pumice]

Also, V453000 said that these having perfect stacking was 'not neccesary', boskid severely disagreed

That might mean something?

[pure siren]

They're like furnaces. Instead of smelting ores into plates, they recycle scraps into plates.

I can see that work. Balancing the different "plates" will be .. oh .. we an use recyclers for that. lol

[desert lake]

On the contrary, it’s more like a guarantee that belt stacking won’t be on vulcanus. The devs said that green belts and stack inserters will be found on different “planets”, plural

[pale pumice]

Not exactly

oh, nevermind, you're right* I misunderstood your argument

[pure siren]

now I'm questioning whether I had that idea myself, or my brain was being inspired by some FFF

[desert lake]

I personally always thought it would be the opposite, that stack inserters will be found on vulcanus and the belts on some other planet

Due to the mining drill stack thing

[pure siren]

makes sense, but it's a bit more difficult. afaik we research those extra layers step by step. so big miner has to be able to handle non-stacking as well

[candid pawn]

even the devs are complaining its too teasy

[wanton swift]

Well volcanus gave us more actual concrete info on the planet in the first post, but perhaps they haven't quite got that bit finished up

[pale pumice]

I don't think so, because then what would next week be?

[candid pawn]

We'll be back with more details about the mechanics and what you can do on Fulgora soon.
soon™️

see you all in a month

[raven bridge]

Vulcanus btw

[candid pawn]

what about it

[raven bridge]

Not volcanus

[candid pawn]

oh you're replying to Xterm

[wanton swift]

Yeah I can't spell lol

[deft mauve]

Ok last Friday's fact gives hope for a power plant using liquid fuels, such as a diesel generator, because this planet has no water but it does have oil

[raven bridge]

Power comes from lightning...

That's pretty obvious given there's lightning and lightning rods.

[deft mauve]

Ok is too but oils sand is exist in new planet

[topaz wing]

At least we know there will be new chemical processes using the oil sand

[desert lake]

Sand byproduct…

[grave crag]

Next one will be mining

[deft mauve]

but I hope that apart from lightning there will be other sources of energy, as I mentioned above, a generator for liquid fuels, because on the basic planet we have steam and the sun to produce energy

[desert lake]

I’m not so sure, for a planet so heavily themed around electricity

[deft mauve]

Ok I realize that the next ff may be a hard landing for me

[pale pumice]

Huge FFF next week?

[small bear]

prediction: mining scraps and process them to get iron, copper and a new metal (tin?), process oil tar sand to get oil,water and stone

[raven bridge]

Mining scraps would sometimes return functional and and , but mostly scrap to be recycled

[bold shard]

I wonder if the recycler at all plays into the science produced there

[small bear]

I wonder if miners are used on Fulgora at all, u might be able to directly process scraps and give outputs by placing recyclers on top of scrap yard

[deft mauve]

the only thing we know for now is that there are oil fields in sand

[desert lake]

Eh, I don't really see that happening. That would be like placing a furnace on an iron patch and expecting it to start smelting

[deft mauve]

If we are going to extract scrap, the only solution is to use electric furnaces to process it into basic semi-finished products.

[bold shard]

prediction: mining/picking up buildings will give stuff like iron/copper plates, copper cable, stone bricks, and other lower level intermediates which you could use to bootstrap a base there with nothing

[desert lake]

Just like vulcanus having iron/copper ore in rocks

[desert lake]

I don’t think there’s an “only solution” here. It will work any way the devs want it to work

Making sense is a secondary concern

[deft mauve]

You're right, but for now I see it as the only solution because that's what logic suggests

[bold shard]

the more I read the FFFs and dev comments, the more I start to understand their design philosophy

[desert lake]

1. Drill mines scrap
2. Scrap inserted into recycler
3. Recycler outputs items

I think this is a fine possibility as well

[bold shard]

for the devs, having things make sense is definitely a nice thing to aim for, but its within the context of making recipes/processes simplified and having crafting buildings handling multiple functions, and not having one-off crafting buildings or too much granularity in items, like many of the popular overhaul mods do

[rocky plover]

For example, I fully expect the pumpjack to get reused to produce water instead of crude oil

[bold shard]

some of the statements made in the newer FFFs validate this

[deft mauve]

it may turn out that the developers are fooling us and will add a deep drilling rig

[rocky plover]

They'e already added big drill

[bold shard]

perhaps some kind of equivalent for oil? but not sure what it would do, since oil is already infinite, unless it just pumps far more

[desert lake]

I only see this happening on bacchus, if anywhere

And besides, fulgora already has tar sand, which seems far too interesting to not be used

[pure siren]

makes the engineer walks slower

[deft mauve]

ok i see it but I meant something like underground mineral deposits

[pure siren]

we need placeable tar sand to slow down biters on Nauvis

[desert lake]

That would be a very cool thing to add… if factorio wasn’t a fully 2d topdown game

Unless the devs somehow completely changed how cliffs work and made an elevation system, I don’t see it happening any time soon

As cool as it would be

Actually… maybe I was overthinking. Maybe it would be enough to just use regular cliffs for an illusion of depth and call it a day

[deft mauve]

I know that the perspective will be disturbing, but it can probably be solved, for example, as they solved with space

[desert lake]

Something like a reverse cliff explosives item, that when thrown creates a “crater” made by a circle of cliffs, and the ground in the middle of them could contain previously unrevealed ore

At the very least, it seems like a fun mod idea

[deft mauve]

i like idea

[desert lake]

And to make it more immersive, instead of a single explosion, the crater could be made by a building or vehicle, that has to sit there for a while performing a digging animation. Potentially also generating stone or something else that needs to be disposed of

Seeing a proper quarry in factorio, with those stair-like elevations, would be kind of nice, wouldn’t it? Though, if I imagine it with stationary drills and conveyor belts instead of mining vehicles, it maybe wouldn’t be as impressive

Ah well, adding this to my list of “things I will add to the game when I eventually™️ learn factorio modding”

It’s quite a long list by now, you wouldn't believe how often this happens to me

[deft mauve]

and this list keeps growing

[grave crag]

I doubt that
Technologies are incompatible

[raven bridge]

In what way

[desert lake]

I'm sure it's nothing a little reducing, reusing and recycling can't fix

[desert lake]

Though I can't say I particularly agree with this message

I expect something more streamlined than that

[raven bridge]

Let us have one thing not streamlined... We're getting recyclers there anyway, so if you have too much of something, just upcycle it

[desert lake]

Not what I meant, I am all for getting circuits and other intermediated out of the scrap

Just, being able to mine them directly?

That sounds like it stinks

I absolutely do not want miners of all things to output sushi belts 😭

Just mine one single "scrap" item, and then recycle it to get mixed stuff

[pure siren]

this line sold me on direct resource mining

[desert lake]

[pure siren]

sushi is fun

[keen scaffold]

week 2 of predicting biter dating simulator

[small bear]

will splitters have enhanced filters like allow setting multiple filters and set filters independently on each side (for example allow output A on both side but only allow output A on left side)

[deft lake]

excuse me what?

[elfin zenith]

Day... ERR ...of predicting new steam locomotive.

[raven bridge]

No. Just filter by item and/or quality level comparison

[pure siren]

The general idea of the Devs is to give us basic building blocks. Allowing item A on both sides and item B on one side of a splitter can be achieved by using two splitters or a splitter with an underground belt.

[lilac arrow]

Day 2 predicting that ore on bwuhuo is gonna be made from biter kidney stones

[pure siren]

That would be another calcium based ore then.

[desert lake]

I trust the devs NOT to add vitamelange

I'm not keeping up too much with SE but I assume(hope) vita being just an ore is a placeholder of some sort

Because making something as unique as bioprocesssing rely on just a regular ore mined with regular drills is just a little lame imo

But space exploration is apparently full of things that are "just like this for now until we make a better implementation" because it's still in development, so it's completely possible vita is one of them

[raven bridge]

0.7 is going to change a lot

[pale pumice]

I'm curious: what makes you predict a steam locomotive

[deft mauve]

liquid fuels for machines such as generators or locomotives are more likely

Nowadays, especially heavy oil is not very useful

[desert lake]

Regarding that, personally I really wish lubricant was used more

I love that the foundry is crafted with it, that's a step in the right direction

But making some advanced things consume lubricant throught pipes would be interesting too, kind of like how AAI loaders does it

And maybe the same thing could be implemented for a new "coolant" fluid, also made from heavy oil

Beacons come to mind first, but maybe also an advanced type of lab?

Oh well, for now I'm content with using heavy oil for my flamethrowers

[deft mauve]

In fact, you have a lot of products from crude oil, such as gasoline, kerosene, fuel oil, bitumen, and lubricants. so I think we may be facing a revolution in this matter

[desert lake]

I think the devs have sort of merged these into just heavy and light, for simplicity's sake

Gasoline, kerosene and fuel oil are all more or less represented by light oil

And don't even get me started on petroleum in this game

The 3 oils are just sort of anything you need them to be

[deft mauve]

I meant that there would be more products made of light and heavy oil, because in addition to cracking, you make solid fuel from light oil and only lubricant from heavy oil.

[desert lake]

Ah, you said "from crude oil", so I misunderstood

I also hope the devs expand on this area of the game. The usefulness of oil is just incredibly unbalanced towards petroleum. At least rocket fuel will be more frequently used in the expansion, due to all the rockets, but there is still something left to be desired

[deft mauve]

It's true to say oil, but I meant it in general

[pure siren]

The usefulness of oil is just incredibly unbalanced towards petroleum
that makes oil processing fool-proof imho. Requiring more petroleum means cracking too much heavier stuff and soft locking is more difficult.

[deft mauve]

If they want to go this route, they can add a heavy oil fired furnace

[desert lake]

Just... use... solid fuel...

I can understand that combustion based generators are different than the steam boiler method the game currently has, and they have the practical difference of not requiring water, and that could sort of justify a new building for oil-based power, but furnaces?

[deft mauve]

ok, maybe I was a bit rushed

[desert lake]

No it's fine I just have this "complicated relationship" with solid fuel in this game and I will never ever be able to shut up about it

Just look in my message history if you really want to know, I don't feel like typing it all out for what would be the fourth time now

[deft mauve]

I read the piece and I think I understand what you mean about solid fuel

[pale pumice]

where is this said

[desert lake]

Factoriopedia fff

[pale pumice]

truth

the foundry making itself is ... weird

[raven bridge]

It's a mix between assembler and furnace

[pale pumice]

Yes, tbut that specific craft seems out of place to me.

[rocky plover]

You make a 9 x 9 rocket silo in a 3 x 3 assembling machine

[raven bridge]

Wdym specific craft?

I'm surprised it doesn't require

[rocky plover]

Probably some difficulty in setting up oil and plastic

[pure siren]

How about Assembling Machines making themselves?

[pale pumice]

That's normal

Assemblers make machines