#I'm looking for a mentor to play Factorio with.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lone dawn
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I've been wanting to figure out what my problem is with this game. I really enjoy the idea of Factorio, but actually making progress has been a nightmare for me. The furthest I've made was to military science, but then I got annoyed of playing on deathworld so I started a new run with peaceful mode on.

My problem has worsened. I can't get to automation science because I just get overwhelmed and close the game when I start thinking about what my base layout should look like.

I really want to know more about Factorio but I'm torn on whether I should play it blind or use external assistance. It's not as if I'm tired of the game because I could probably watch more YT videos of Factorio, and watching YT is much easier to do.

Maybe I need a level of being accounted for. I considered that maybe I have ADHD and researched it in detail. For now it's just a theory and I don't know if it's actually ADHD, it could be depression. Does anyone else feel this way?

vital current
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There is a fine line between analysis paralysis and being overwhelmed due to depression, so I'm not going to attempt to offer an amateurs' diagnosis there. And by Automation Science, do you mean the red one? But no matter which science you are stuck on, you don't have to be concerned fully with what your base looks like. It just needs to work. Give yourself some extra space, or play around in Editor mode to hone your arrays. And I wouldn't suggest jumping between Deathworld and Passive and back, as they are on such opposite ends of the pendulum.

weary sorrel
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Hello, first of all I don’t think anyone here will be able to tell what exactly your problem is. That being said I don’t think that getting frustrated with the game means you have ADHD, depression or any other mental condition. It is natural to enjoy some games and dislike others.
The easiest way to check if the game is for you is if you played similar games (sandbox / survival / crafting / creative genres) and you enjoy them. It is true that factorio is more complex than most so if you struggle with complexity then it might be because of how you approach problem solving. One of the basic skills you need to learn when you are dealing with any complex system is breaking it down into smaller pieces.
To apply it to a factorio, each factory builds items using chain of recipes where each recipe uses items from previous recipe to produce new item. Recipes are made in production buildings such as assemblers and you use inserters to move items between buildings or belts which are used to transport items over longer distances. So basically you pick recipe, look at what it needs and then go down that chain until you arrive at basic resources such as iron plates or copper plates which are made from ores. When you make new type of item you load it on a belt and bring it to machines which need and eventually you will finish the game. Is it efficient? No. Does it have to be efficient to finish the game? No. And if somebody tells you otherwise then you should ask them how their first factory looked like …

vital current
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"ask them how their first factory looked"

Oh boy, good point! I doubt I have any screenshots of my first few maps, but I know it took me many starts to get past Oil for the first time. And even then, I blindly deferred to a blueprint that I only mostly understood much later on. I'm still horrible when it comes to actually setting up ratio'd builds, and I have over 5k hours logged according to Steam (that's wrong to some degree due to paused afk time, but I have no clue by how much). And vanilla rocket launches? I have done maybe 3. And most of my modded runs end before getting to the "win" scenario. Honestly, I apparently appreciate the journey more than the destination 🙂

lone dawn
# vital current There is a fine line between analysis paralysis and being overwhelmed due to dep...

Yep! Analysis paralysis sounds exactly like my situation. Or to be more precise, my head starts to hurt when I start thinking about adjusting my base design or expanding it. I can wrap my head around building furnaces and burner drills, transition into electricity and actually do it, but anything outside what the tutorial taught me gives me an incredible migraine and I hate it. It's like I'm unable to do anything slightly abstract. For now I'm going to stick with peaceful mode because it's less to think about.

lone dawn
weary sorrel
# lone dawn That's okay. I wasn't expecting a mental health diagnosis, just hoping that I co...

I think you should try to focus on one thing at the time. Let’s say you are trying to produce green science packs. So you pick some empty spot and just build machines which produce it. Then you bring empty belt which will feed items for the recipe. Then you check the recipe, pick first item let’s say belts, you pick another empty spot on the map, build assemblers which make belts, then check what belt recipe needs, you will see iron plates and gears, you have iron plates already so you just bring them to your machine for belts, then you still need to make gears, so you pick another empty spot, build assemblers for making gears, those need only iron plates, so now you are making gears you connect them to belt production and now you have automated belt production, you bring them to green science and half of it is done, now you follow the same pattern for inserters, you make dedicated machine for inserters, check the recipe, build machine for green circuits, check the recipe etc. eventually you will have everything connected and it will start working, or it won’t and you will go recipe after recipe until you find what you missed. Don’t try to think about everything at once, there is no point.
It is irrelevant that you end up with spaghetti, it is irrelevant that ratios are incorrect, all of those things are related to optimization, don’t try to optimize if you don’t have it even working.

gilded furnace
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My biggest suggestion is to play with a clear list of mini-goals you want to achieve while playing. If you run out of mini-goals, stop playing until you can think of more. An example of such a goal might be to clear some biters, or build chemical science, or build a train to source iron ore from a new patch, e.t.c. This helps break down the "build a base and win" goal into parts that can reasonably be achieved after a few minutes or hours of playing. This allows you to feel like you are progressing somewhere, one mini-goal at a time, rather than just thinking that your base is still not finished, the biters are still eating my walls and other negative things. It also helps keep your time playing productive, rather than walking around aimlessly with no clear goal or idea what to do.

lone dawn
lone dawn
# gilded furnace My biggest suggestion is to play with a clear list of mini-goals you want to ach...

I have a list that looks like this:
Create an automated red science setup
-be sure to have enough power
-automate 2 iron plates
-automate iron gears
-automate 1 copper plates

But for some reason I still struggle because my brain gets noisy thinking about optimization. Even thinking about appending my original comment on this thread gives me a headache. I'm not sure what's causing this but I'm going to keep trying to play. I don't want to give up just because my brain is resisting. But it's still really hard. I appreciate you taking the time to comment.

tight rose
# lone dawn I've been wanting to figure out what my problem is with this game. I really enjo...
  1. Do not chest.
    Do not keep your overproduction in chests - you will barely ever be able to consume more then you can produce. Of course if it's not belts or other things you use - but those chests should be stack-limited as well
  2. Think in belts
    When you are producing intermediates (plates, circuits), make them consume the full half-belt of items (as another half-belt may be an item with smaller ratio)
    You need 12 steel furnaces to consume half belt of ore, so build multiplies of that
  3. Think in tiling. If the design is easily tileable, there is no difficulty difference between tiling it 3 or 30 times, as long as you don't get over your belt throughput (see 2)
  4. Do the science
    Science is the only thing in the game that actually matters. Everything else while may be useful, may be equally optional. Get to the white packs first and only then consider checking every tech below - excluding the once that seem useful immediately - like an armor or equipment
  5. Listen to the science
    The Logistics science says you: "You should automate belts and inserters". Automate them, and use the production for your own good - don't you need a lot of belts and inserters to build things?
    Other sciences are the same - they make you craft things you'd want to use soon
  6. Try Lazy Bastard
    This is an achievement for crafting the minimum possible number of items with hands before launching the rocket. Don't craft things - make assemblers craft them (but remember 1)
    While I doubt you can get the achievement, you can easily reduce the time you spend crafting by an order of magnitude
stray ruin
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Speaking as someone who has ADHD, probably ASD, definitely depression -- the game often appeals to us. Autonomy, mastery and control, with plenty of little dopamine hits.

lone dawn
stray ruin
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It's perfectly fine to follow a tutorial. It's a game, for fun and relaxation. If you want to use it to train yourself to stretch, and to practice organizing and analyzing, then do that, but it's not required.

I prefer peaceful mode. For me, the game is about building.

At your stage, look at it as exploration and experimentation. The goals are to help you focus. If you want to focus on a different goal, or no goal at all, that's fine.

100 hours for a first run is reasonable.

lone dawn
# stray ruin It's perfectly fine to follow a tutorial. It's a game, for fun and relaxation. I...

I'm playing this game to train and hone my motor skills (if that makes any sense), getting rid of my perfectionism and because it's fun to play and talk about with other people. I eventually want to lean into becoming a circuit expert because that can transition into IRL stuffs, but that's a pipe dream until I can get to a point where I'm not constantly overwhelmed at every turn.

Thanks for sharing about yourself. You're very cool for doing that. 🙂

stray ruin
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Getting rid of perfectionism was a goal for me, too, after I realized it was causing problems. There's a joy in being perfect, but sometimes it's too much.

molten elbow
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@lone dawn if your on in about 10h I can play with you, I've found a hands off-ish way of playing that lets you do most of the thinking with prompts from me
While I'll help do relatively meanial taskes sutch as adding more drill, furnaces and power

stray ruin
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Another thing I do is ask, "What is one easy thing I can do right now that will make an important thing easier." Note that I do not say "easiest" or "most important." That way lies analysis paralysis. Can do right now means I can get up and do it. A small silly thing I actually do is better than a larger or more important thing I don't do. Moving a dish out of the sink will make it easier to do the dishes.

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Ignore motivation. I won't run a marathon for $1M. I will open the door for $5.

lone dawn
lone dawn
molten elbow
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Hmm, today as it's a Friday for me I can be around at 6-10am for you

stray ruin
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Not weird at all! I learned all this stuff as a kid by watching my parents. Then things fell off the rails a few times when my kids were small. Then they got diagnosed and I saw patterns.

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(Learned does not necessarily mean always use.)

lone dawn
lone dawn
stray ruin
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My kid struggles with handwriting, can't take notes.

lone dawn
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Crazy coincidence, I just finished watching a video on how parents should approach ADHD, masterful explanation from Dr. Russel Barkley.

stray ruin
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I still haven't read anything by him, but another person I respect likes him a lot.

lone dawn
stray ruin
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but..she doesn't like Hallowel, but I really liked his first book. His second was discouraging.

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Does it have stuff for parents of adult kids? Mine have pretty much launched.

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The abstract is all of stuff I already know.

lone dawn
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It covers A LOT about ADHD mostly, and how to approach it for younger kids, but I'm assuming that because ADHD doesn't just 'go away' when you get older, it's relevant for adults too.

stray ruin
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Some similarities, some differences as you age. There are general trends, but individuals vary. Gross motor fidgets shift to fine motor and mental. IQ and systems usually better. If not? the problems are more apparent. More stuff to organize, fewer outside deadlines, so harder to keep moving.

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Your description doesn't match...I clicked too many times. Different video.

lone dawn
molten elbow
stray ruin
lone dawn
lone dawn
stray ruin
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I can get that way. I used to think it was responsibility, but now suspect it's partly anxiety. Fortunately there's a limit to how prepared I need to be. One kid has OCD and GAD. They never, ever feel properly prepared. It's getting better for them, slowly, sometimes.

molten elbow
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Ye

lone dawn
# stray ruin I can get that way. I used to think it was responsibility, but now suspect it's ...

Oof! That is so relatable. One advice I've resonated a lot with is the reality that being an architect means that the pursuit to perfection will never end. There's always something you can improve on and trying to aim for perfection will never end. I don't know why this helped me so much, I guess the idea that "oh, we're not just saying you shouldn't be perfect, we tried, and it doesn't work" puts me at ease.

stuck ore
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At some point it starts being called gold-plating shoob

lone dawn
stray ruin
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I wrote a lot for a while, when kids started school. Revsied and revised and revised. Then I joined a storytelling group. Live, without notes, but plenty of prep. The Liaden books (Miller and Lee) call it the Art of the Ephemeral. Once the word, or silence, is out, it's there. You can't go back and change it.

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It's fun watching new tellers at open mic. Some want to go last, put it off. Some want to go last, so they can practice instead of listening. Some want to go early and get it over with. The good hosts find a way for people to signify intent. Even if it's moving a pebble from one bowl to another, it's a signal to yourself.

lone dawn
stray ruin
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It takes practice, and ignoring people telling you to stay on topic.

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Also ignore peopel telling you not to speculate.

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Speculation is fun and useful, as long as you don't confuse it with the truth.

lone dawn
stray ruin
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Speculation prevents me from believing my first interpretation.

lone dawn
stray ruin
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Nah, I really should focus on today's goals.

lone dawn
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Hahah okay. Nice talking with you nonetheless!

gilded furnace
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You can always tear builds up later on and build them fresh and better.

stuck ore
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I generally tell people, instead of tearing things down and redoing them, to watch the build operate and analyse the flaws, so you can learn from them in the next build you make. Keeps you both moving forward and improving

molten elbow