price increase

[thorny saffron]

Feel free to put your rants about the price increase here. All rants must follow server rules and may be rated on creativity and quality.

[brazen linden]

they didn't increase it enough

[iron panther]

Inflation sucks for most people

[turbid wyvern]

booo money bad, reject capitalism

[merry herald]

i dont think there needs to be rants just non biased discussion

[warm basalt]

bit of a loaded name
but glad there's a space for it

[thorny saffron]

price increase

[warm basalt]

thank you

[thorny saffron]

Fine

[brazen linden]

give me a minute and I'll type something up properly. re: inflation and why your anger is perhaps misdirected

[turbid wyvern]

btw, is it possible to give wube money directly? I mean either by paying the game more than its price or straight cash flow

[idle pawn]

buy it for your pals

[thorny saffron]

Merch?

[bronze kelp]

i am right but you're wrong
let's have a non-biased discussion
do you see where the problem is?

[merry herald]

I personally bought factorio twice but I still dont like the price increase I believe it is completely unnecessary from Wube

[merry herald]

yall also have told me im wrong

[warm basalt]

my position isn't really angry or upset or anything
I just think it's a weird choice when you have consistent sales and a new port that is selling to new customers to raise prices

that's all I have

[turbid wyvern]

I did :p

[bronze kelp]

nothing is saying the price won't decrease in the future if inflation lowers

[idle pawn]

If we get into deflation territory we all have much bigger problems

[brazen linden]

tl;dr: with inflation there's a bit of an assumption that one's own compensation for labor, etc should be increased to match previous values
if the price of goods goes up, you'd expect your own income to increase for the same work as well (in this highly idealized example- the real world only adds complication)
thus, if the price of goods goes up as the currency devalues, but your compensation remains the same... well, I'm sure you understand where I'm going with this. If the devs deem this to be appropriate, I can't exactly disagree given the current state of the world's sociopoltiical economic systems.

[orchid dagger]

inflation can lower, but deflation is a different thing entirely

lower inflation is still inflation

it just means we might be waiting 10 years for the next price increase instead of 5 😛

[merry laurel]

[for the record]
WUBE has an established record of being fair to all comers (never on sale) and open with its policies. Constant vigilance is of course warranted, but the skepticism around the price-change seems quite unwarranted. The studio is free to price the game however they please, and no one is entitled to a fixed price or even a reason for the price changing. What exactly is the crux of your complaint?

[merry herald]

putting games on sale isnt unfair

[turbid wyvern]

true

it allows patient people to be rewarded

or lucky ones

it also increases sales

[bronze kelp]

more like cheapskates but you do you

[turbid wyvern]

which in turn increases visibility

[merry herald]

typically people who really want a game buy it early and people who want it less or arent as wealthy can wait for a sale

it allows underprivileged people to be gamers too

especially helpful for poorer countries

[thorny saffron]

The downside is that most sales will be made during a sale, so the effective price is lower. Which means that if the game needs to sell for $30 to keep the studio alive, the normal price just goes up

[bronze kelp]

underprivileged is the wrong word here, you're thinking about poor people

[meager walrus]

As someone from one such country regional pricing is a thing factorio already does

[orchid dagger]

Poorer people in rich countries, sure. Poorer countries already have regional prices.

[merry laurel]

this is what regional pricing tries to address (price discrimination benefiting both sellers and buyers)

[orchid dagger]

Move to Argentina if you can't afford factorio 😄

[merry herald]

yes but regional prices recently got massive increases from steam

[turbid wyvern]

exactly, I almost always buy my games for cheap a few years after release, but I think wube deserves the full price
even without the no sale thing I'll still buy the expansion day 1 for all the years of enjoyment in one of the last remnants of the lost care of the game (which is now the care of the money income. note: to be clear I refer to AAA games, not the recent factorio price change)

[north cargo]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2013/09/27/a-strategic-mistake-that-haunts-j-c-penney/

Relevant history, JCPenney tried to sell stuff without sales

[merry herald]

ill probably buy expansion pck but now im starting to question

[orchid dagger]

Probably because of inflation or currency exchange rate changes

[merry herald]

yes

[orchid dagger]

Sounds reasonable to me

[bronze kelp]

it's almost as if inflation is a global phenomenon too

[meager walrus]

And like different countries have different inflation rates

[merry herald]

but also regional prices didnt exactly go with exchange rates

because some countries would have like elden ring priced at what 5 dollars usd would be to them

[bronze kelp]

i don't get the issue

do you know what purchasing power parity is?

[turbid wyvern]

I'll do it at least because I want this kind of game development to survive, it might even motivate other companies to do so (I have zero faith in that but hey, we never know)

[meager walrus]

Some countries also get ridiculous import taxes on PC parts. Exchange rate alone doesn’t cover everything

[merry herald]

the issue is steam recently removed purchasing power parity from many of those countires

[bronze kelp]

news to me

[normal oyster]

Btw, Wube is based in Europe and since the war outbreak house mortgages have almost doubled here in EU so, it's not that you'll see Factorio devs driving around in a Ferrari, it's to stay afloat

[merry herald]

like massive price increases to 3rd world countires

[merry laurel]

mumbles something indistinct about burden of proof

[bronze kelp]

i don't really understand how regional pricing would exist without PPP. what you're mentioning doesn't really add up

[warm basalt]

yeah here's some info about the Steam thing
https://nichegamer.com/valve-new-steam-regional-pricing/

[merry herald]

https://www.thegamer.com/steam-regional-pricing-updates-500-percent/

[bronze kelp]

ah yes, 2 countries known for not giving 2 fucks about their economy

[warm basalt]

the actual statement is here:
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/pricing#5
I'd recommend giving it a read just to have the full context

[turbid wyvern]

since we all enjoy computing the most efficient setups, what about computing what would be the best price for factorio?
(jk)

[thorny saffron]

It should be proportional to a combination of exchange rate and relative purchasing power, though it seems Steam has options for both automatic and manual pricing by the devs

[merry herald]

30 dollars was good no reason to increase it

[bronze kelp]

it was

[warm basalt]

it wasn't just those fwiw
That said, lots of other countries saw price increases of 40 percent or more, including the Norwegian Krone, Brazilian Real, Thai Baht, Colombian Peso, and South African Rand. Some of this accounts for inflation in those respective countries, some of it is differences in currency value compared to the US dollar, and some of it is just Steam taking a while to update their recommendations.

[orchid dagger]

What are the chances that $30 was the optimal price?

[merry herald]

but i thought if they wanted to make more money the way was by doing sales not increasing price

[orchid dagger]

indeed

[warm basalt]

50/50
it either is or it isn't

[strange saddle]

+faq sales

[turbid wyvern]

using math, not opinions

[merry herald]

honestly optimal is 30 dollars and then doing periodic sales is the best way to do it in my opinion

[jagged helm]

sales end up lowering the average price as noted above

[strange saddle]

Wait do faqs not work in replies?

[thorny saffron]

Sorry, bots don't work in threads

[strange saddle]

Ah

[thorny saffron]

At least not without an update to handle them I think...

[orchid dagger]

"in your opinion"

[thorny saffron]

The slash commands do work

[merry herald]

yes thats why i specifically said in my opinion

[warm basalt]

bots can't read threads without being part of them

[merry herald]

this is all opinions

[orchid dagger]

indeed

[jagged helm]

with periodic sales, though, almost no one will buy at full price

[warm basalt]

this is what everyone has been doing so far yes

on both sides of the argument

the only people with the data are wube and they aren't gonna comment on this outside of their statement

[idle pawn]

Aren't they?

[turbid wyvern]

you underestimate the money throwing power of people

[jagged helm]

I don't remember the last time I bought something at full price on steam besides factorio

[orchid dagger]

Well they have commented on this by saying that they think $35 is optimal

And as you say, they're the ones with the data

[merry herald]

i dont believe that at all

[warm basalt]

If you want to provide more data then go ahead

I'd love to see the raw details

[bronze kelp]

do you want me to link to the screenshot again?

[thorny saffron]

No, we've seen it

[turbid wyvern]

if big companies are selling 3 skins for 30 bucks more in the premium edition something every single release of their games you bet that there are people buying that

[north cargo]

Everyone has *access to the data lmao

[thorny saffron]

I have a feeling it's a combination of inflation especially in Europe and a growing team that needs to be fed until the expansion comes out...

[jagged helm]

I mean, it's the optimal strategy, at least; and anyone who would buy at full price regardless isn't really the target of this debate anyway

[idle pawn]

Like many goods in an economy, Factorio is demand inelastic.

[merry herald]

i wont be surprised if their price increase ends up lowering their game sales and profit

[jagged helm]

at this point, factorio is very much in long-tail territory anyway (at least until the expansion drops)

[north cargo]

Need to increase green circuit production

[warm basalt]

yeah

[north cargo]

Thank you so much for such an amazing game

[merry herald]

im not someone who believes in pirating but i know others are gonna do it more

[meager walrus]

Indeed

[strange saddle]

It's 5 bucks. Like every other "viral problem" Wube's ran into, it'll blow up for 3 days and then die as if it never happened

[warm basalt]

I don't think it will increase or decrease it - I assume it will probably stay stable
I just think it's a weird thing to do

opinion, of course

[turbid wyvern]

maybe it's the other way around

[jagged helm]

the vast majority of pirating doesn't translate into lost sales anyway (or there'd be evidence presented that it did)

[turbid wyvern]

maybe the sales are decreasing thus they need to increase the price

[north cargo]

Maybe it would be weird to not raise the price

[idle pawn]

I just said it is demand inelastic

[turbid wyvern]

after all, a video game is a one-time buy you keep you whole life, unlike all IRL goods

[merry herald]

to me it doesnt make sense that they dont do sales because they would make more money and it would be more accessible for others to buy.

[meager walrus]

Wasn’t it the founder of steam who pointed out that the majority of piracy was due to lack of service rather than price anyway?

[north cargo]

I would understand if demand had slowed down, but they keep selling 500k copies a year like clockwork

[warm basalt]

This is the old Gabe quote yeah
Piracy was because people couldn't get the game the way they wanted it, not because of the prices

[strange saddle]

"you keep your whole life" only if you own the physical copy... Otherwise you're gambling on a slew of factors

[turbid wyvern]

still a bit hard to believe
or maybe is that just a correlation?

[orchid dagger]

https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-247 here's some data from the last time it happened

[warm basalt]

ye old quote
https://www.gamesradar.com/gabe-newell-piracy-issue-service-not-price/

[formal basalt]

A 5 dollar increase wont

The game is worth 40 - 50 bucks with the amount on premium content there is

[warm basalt]

this is pretty much the boat I'm in yeah
It's just weird when they stated sales are stable + new port opens up to new customers+repeats for the new console

[meager walrus]

With all this apparent outrage you’d think factorio suddenly doubled in price

[formal basalt]

The only game to have devs that fix all the bugs

Besides the alive ones

[jagged helm]

that's our job as players

[formal basalt]

Mhn

[turbid wyvern]

well 5 bucks more and it did 😄

[hoary tiger]

It wasn't...10 bucks though

[formal basalt]

Ye it was 30 bucks always

I thinkies

[hoary tiger]

Not always

[formal basalt]

Well since release

1.0

[thorny saffron]

It's been 30 since before 1.0... I'd say finally getting the Spidertron is well worth the $5 :P
What do you mean no extra features were added??

[formal basalt]

XD

And theres the DLC we gonna get sometime

#excited

[meager walrus]

I got 8 legs for 5 bucks

Seems like a good deal

[formal basalt]

And a head plus body

[turbid wyvern]

20€ then => 35€ now

[merry herald]

dlc will probably be 35 now

[formal basalt]

Lol

[meager walrus]

That’s over a period of many years though

[formal basalt]

Mhm

[warm basalt]

yeah I think this is a safe bet

[meager walrus]

Certainly not an overnight thing

[thorny saffron]

Probably 40 if they spend even more development time on it

[meager walrus]

[formal basalt]

Depends

[merry herald]

maybe i wont buy dlc for both platforms like i was planning

[bronze kelp]

ok. and?

[thorny saffron]

"both platforms"?

[north cargo]

To be clear, my statement is in support of why the price increase is reasonable given the reasons for it

A "long in the tooth game" makes sense to make cheaper if sales are slowing down in a big way

[formal basalt]

Lol

[merry herald]

yes both

[thorny saffron]

tbh I doubt the Switch can handle a massive DLC...

[formal basalt]

Switch?

Ye it wont get DLC most likely

[turbid wyvern]

don't you get a steam key from buying on the website?

[warm basalt]

ah see I guess I have the opposite there
If you're still making consistent sales, price increases don't really make sense to me

[formal basalt]

Atleast not alongside pc

[jagged helm]

the bug-fixing/stability angle is important to emphasize, though; there are plenty of higher-priced games that just don't have factorio's long-term stability or bug-fixing responsiveness

[warm basalt]

so I misunderstood your view
my bad

[merry herald]

idk it runs factorio surprisingly well i never dropped below 60 ups but i never made a mega base

[merry herald]

yes

[formal basalt]

Theres more to sales then sales, there are paychecks too

[thorny saffron]

It runs Factorio just fine, but people have managed to get it to load mods, and it runs out of memory if you load anything more than a medium sized mod.

[formal basalt]

And building costs

And etc

[warm basalt]

well mods on the switch are always gonna be a crapshoot

[formal basalt]

Cant make a game if you dont got money

[turbid wyvern]

like a recently released fps happening in a dystopian future whose name will remain unknown?

[merry herald]

yeah but mods arent nearly as well optimized as vanilla. I expect the dlc will be as good as their current work

[thorny saffron]

That's not the point. It's that it can't handle all that many extra buildings and things before running out of memory

[formal basalt]

Cyberpunk?

[round fulcrum]

the devs have come here and said that they assume factorio's demand is price inelastic -- ie, that they are charging more because you will buy it anyway

[thorny saffron]

Because sprites are what takes the RAM, and the base game ones are loaded exactly the same as modded ones

[bronze kelp]

"as well optimized as vanilla", where is the optimization in a mod? i don't get it

[formal basalt]

Lol

[north cargo]

Maybe I'll finally Google what inelastic means

[merry herald]

idk exactly how it works

[round fulcrum]

Demand is considered inelastic if demand for a good or service remains unchanged even when the price changes,

[north cargo]

Ok I googled it, I still don't quite understand the application, slow brain day

[warm basalt]

the basic example is food
people gotta buy the food regardless of what the price is
the demand is always there and constant

[thorny saffron]

To rephrase this: the base game is a mod, running on the factorio engine.

[turbid wyvern]

elastic: boing boing
inelastic: no boing boing

[merry herald]

i took macro economics last semester

[north cargo]

Another way to put it: sales are consistent ?

[meager walrus]

Yea that’s one way to put it

[north cargo]

Ok, I've been saying that lol

That's why putting it on sale is silly, the demand is consistent

[warm basalt]

not necessarily
if it's above what someone can pay, even if the demand is inelastic, the sales might not match demand

[round fulcrum]

not consistent but that they unaffected by price changes. small distinction

[north cargo]

Hmm, mmkay

[warm basalt]

the demand is still there, but demand does not necessarily mean 1-to-1 sales

[bronze kelp]

if people are willing to spend $60 on a half-finished cod or bf, then i think they have money to spend on a factory building game

[orchid dagger]

Mods that just add buildings, graphics, items, etc are using identical systems to vanilla. Most overhauls are almost entirely made up of this kind of stuff (SE has a lot of control stage scripting as well, some other overhauls do to a lesser extent).

[meager walrus]

Exactly

[round fulcrum]

(ie, something's sales could be wildly swingy and inconsistent. but changing the price might not affect sales)

[warm basalt]

I'm speaking with general economics

if you have a really high demand and low supply of something, inelastic demand doesn't mean you can magically have the same number of sales constantly

[north cargo]

That also has huge modding support and potentially thousands of hours of content

[round fulcrum]

the idea that (some) people are willing to spend $60 on COD does not imply that other people are willing or able to spend (additional) money on factorio

[warm basalt]

for clarity, I'm not saying factorio does or does not have inelastic demand
I was trying to help explain what inelastic demand is

[turbid wyvern]

yeah but that's straight up exploitation, do you even imagine the tremedous amount of work people put in those mods for free?

[meager walrus]

Could be a lot worse. You could be buying lootboxes and micro transactions

[bronze kelp]

that's not what i was implying. my point was if the general population has $60 for cod then they surely have $35 for factorio

[turbid wyvern]

and be a bad game

[north cargo]

It's not like the developers are whipping mod developers lol

[strange saddle]

Would you ask a scientist for a paintbrush?

[round fulcrum]

replace "factorio" with "food" and you'll understand why (some) people having $60 for cod does not mean everyone has $35 for other things

[turbid wyvern]

on the other hand, factorio devs are also putting work for us to destroy their

[north cargo]

Turn off reply pings please

[strange saddle]

The audience of CoD and the audience of Factorio are vastly different audiences. Not necessarily exclusive, but there's not much share room there

[bronze kelp]

uh what? if you don't have money for factorio then you don't have money for games in general so what is it that you're trying to say?

[north cargo]

At that point you have larger concerns

[bronze kelp]

the average person has enough money to spend to buy a $60 game, therefore they have enough money to buy a $30 game. what is your point?

[round fulcrum]

im saying that merely because some people can spent $60 on one thing does not mean that other people can spent $35 on another

[nocturne wraith]

cod is food and game

[bronze kelp]

but the groups have like a 98% overlap, wtf are you on

[round fulcrum]

lol

[nocturne wraith]

what is it about pinged replies that you don't like

[warm basalt]

well factorio can be an (overhead) third person shooter

[bronze kelp]

people that can buy a $60 game and people that can buy a $30 game overlap by a ton. just because there's a small minority of people that can't afford a $60 game doesn't suddenly mean it's an invalid comparison

[turbid wyvern]

pretty sure almost no one would ever play both

[round fulcrum]

its invalid because you assume the audience you are talking to

[north cargo]

I moderate a different server, sometimes I need to look at ping history, I don't want unnecessary pings

[bronze kelp]

i legit don't know what your point is at this point

[round fulcrum]

you assume they come from a place of privlege where its easy for them to spend $60 on a video game and have $35 left over for other ones

[bronze kelp]

that's not what i said

[round fulcrum]

you assume that they have $35 at all to spend on luxury entertainment goods

[nocturne wraith]

is there a reason this doesn't work

[bronze kelp]

IF they can spend $60, they surely can put $30 to something else instead

[round fulcrum]

$35

[north cargo]

Irrelevant, the ping still shows up in the history

[turbid wyvern]

you can filter it by server tho, and you have the chance to have many option on your end (dnd mode, server settings, etc)

[merry laurel]

e.g., "inbox -> mentions"?

[north cargo]

That doesn't turn off the ping, just the notification alert

Yep

[bronze kelp]

i wasn't talking about those people if they don't have that money

[round fulcrum]

i know, you are assuming your audience

[bronze kelp]

the group of people that can buy a $30 game but can't buy a $35 game aren't buying games in general. please stop this completely useless discussion

[round fulcrum]

you're talking about a mythical person who doesnt exist in this conversation, and you are calling them dumb. good job?

[nocturne wraith]

I think you can also mute things to not have them shown

[meager walrus]

What, screaming 12 year olds vs engineers?

[north cargo]

I don't want to mute this server, I'm active in it

[thorny saffron]

I much prefer the search bar for that... mentions:677256719008792596

[round fulcrum]

the ping is nice though

[north cargo]

90% of my discord time is on mobile

[strange saddle]

I hate the ping sometimes because I'll write a message, tab out into a game I'm playing while also watching chat

[thorny saffron]

It works on mobile just as well

[north cargo]

Either way, I don't need a ping if I'm talking to you lol

[turbid wyvern]

👆
I'm one of those who actually don't like when the reply has no ping

[north cargo]

And I'll respect your preference

[merry herald]

im not an engineer or screeming 12 year old

[idle pawn]

how old?

[merry herald]

19

[turbid wyvern]

but I can't force the pings, while people can force the no ping

[meager walrus]

[bronze kelp]

sometimes it's easier to reply ping people to keep the chain of messages correct and not unintentionally confuse someone

[round fulcrum]

the question i have is to what extent does arguing about your ping preferences save you time and to what extent do people not pay attention to it?

[north cargo]

Not with a fine degree of control....

[nocturne wraith]

keeping the chain of messages correct has nothing to do with the ping being enabled or not

[strange saddle]

I wouldn't ask for ages, Klonan. It can lead to a lot of other kinds of issues

[thorny saffron]

Still plenty of time to become the second then :P

[idle pawn]

what issues?

[bronze kelp]

it does when people reply to hours old messages and don't enable the ping

[nocturne wraith]

that is a completely different scenario

[north cargo]

Maybe I just don't like it, I don't need to justify my preference to a fine degree of detail

Respect it or not 🤷‍♂️

If someone maliciously pings, I just block them

[merry herald]

too expensive

and im not smart

[north cargo]

Yep, if someone hasn't spoken for 5 minutes, a ping is warranted

(In a highly active conversation)

[strange saddle]

But then at that point who doesn't ping?

[idle pawn]

I love a ping, makes me feel involved

[nocturne wraith]

I mean when I reply I have it ingrained in me to hold shift when I click the button to auto turn it off

[turbid wyvern]

don't ever expect me to remember the ping preferences of every single user of every single discord server, that's all I'll say

[strange saddle]

@idle pawn Appreciate you guys and the rest of Wube! <3

[north cargo]

How many have given you a preference?

[brittle ledge]

I don't mind pings. If someone doesn't like to be pinged, they can turn notifications off 🤷‍♂️

Anyway, this is way off topic.

[bronze kelp]

i've scrolled through #blueprint-designing a few times and seen that people have replied to me but not pinged me

[nocturne wraith]

the previous topic was getting pretty shit

so I changed it

[north cargo]

@idle pawn the og dev, respec playa

[nocturne wraith]

we can go back to respectful discussion now

[idle pawn]

I am not OG 😄

[thorny saffron]

renames thread to "Ping Preferences"

[strange saddle]

Kovarex is OG :)

[idle pawn]

I am medium G

maybe medium-rare

[nocturne wraith]

well done

[merry herald]

i have a question for klonan but i am afraid it might get me banned and its not factorio related at all

[north cargo]

Scandalous

[idle pawn]

I won't ban you (because I can't)

[meager walrus]

I don’t like pings because inflation made them cost more

[merry laurel]

when I am pinged, I automatically assume that someone expects me to do something with it

[nocturne wraith]

I will (even though I can't)

[meager walrus]

[north cargo]

You have no powa here ||get nuclear||

[north cargo]

"This is important, I would like a response please"

[turbid wyvern]

without exaggerating like I usually do, at the very least 10
it's getting very annoying to me to see that in every server

[round fulcrum]

I've softened up to pings after PTSD from engineering job. Sometimes its just "hey I think you might be interested in this"

[lethal furnace]

I know it's probably a joke, but keep it cool please. sarcasm in text chats is dangerous, especially during discussions/debates

[nocturne wraith]

replies also suck because they waste screen space

this is what they should look like

[warm basalt]

they pretty much look that way on compact

[meager walrus]

Ah sorry about that it was. The got shunted down a few messages

[nocturne wraith]

yes, but I am not in compact mode as you can see

[turbid wyvern]

@nocturne wraith

replies also suck because they waste screen space
way less than they used to

[north cargo]

Hey, if there's going to be inflammatory inflationary sarcasm, this is the place to do it

[nocturne wraith]

they're about the same

[turbid wyvern]

fr?

[nocturne wraith]

for one liners yeah

for longer quotes it definitely is better now

[idle pawn]

I have to say I am pretty lucky that my mortgage is locked in for 8 years

[brittle ledge]

Nice

[merry herald]

how do you becaome factorio dlc playtester

[brittle ledge]

Meanwhile, a crappy studio apartment here costs $1300 a month

[north cargo]

I did a 20 year VA loan, right before the interest rates went up, ballin

[merry herald]

im willing to sign NDA and all that

[orchid dagger]

I thought you weren't going to buy it now 🤔

[strange saddle]

This is where Klonan says "You don't"

[north cargo]

That's how much my mortgage is 💀

[merry herald]

ill buy it i was being dramatic

[brittle ledge]

You can email them if you want source access, but you have to have a good reason for them to let you in.

[turbid wyvern]

playtest is free, or even paid tho

[idle pawn]

there will come a time when the news about the procedure to apply for a chance to beta test the Expansion will be discussed

[strange saddle]

Sign me up! :D

[turbid wyvern]

saved

[merry herald]

ok because they will get plenty of testing out of me cuz i have 0 life

[nocturne wraith]

I'm not used to your name being white

frost

[hearty abyss]

I for one miss the early access process, aye

[orchid dagger]

Sure, but I wouldn't expect anyone to sign up to it that wouldn't also be first in line to buy it

[meager walrus]

Same here lol

[nocturne wraith]

if the name was back to Crusader I probably would

but the frost part got associated with the moderator part

[merry herald]

i dont even be need to be payed for playtesting but it would be dope

[strange saddle]

Looks normal?

[merry laurel]

need a pale-yellow role, once-and-future-moderator ?

[thorny saffron]

Winter moderator :P

[nocturne wraith]

oh yeah that is normal

[strange saddle]

Heh

[nocturne wraith]

reminds me of inline lane balancers now

[north cargo]

Frost is coming

[orchid dagger]

They can pay you with all the extra $5s 🙃

[strange saddle]

Now everyone will stop calling me Frost

[north cargo]

Oldmins

[nocturne wraith]

sounds good, frost

[strange saddle]

About time, it was getting kinda weird ngl

[hearty abyss]

most of the paid testing is done by machine

[merry herald]

no because doesnt go with inflation so it doesnt actually increase profits acording to them

[turbid wyvern]

well I've played a lot of beta of games I didn't bought or plan to
gtfo, steelhunters, ... (and dow 3 never sent me a proper link to the game)

[merry herald]

😦

[turbid wyvern]

efficiency at its best I see 😄

[north cargo]

Automating stuff, checks out

[merry herald]

i can playtest for them on steam deck and switch

[hearty abyss]

The updated version of this is always harder to find due to being unlisted, but.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivLFP2eApto

[turbid wyvern]

I think I'd be willing to pay up to 5 bucks just to playtest

[orchid dagger]

I guess we can all go back to #vanilla-chat now? 🙃

[north cargo]

No, too much inflation for that channel to hold everything

[brittle ledge]

The factory inflates

[jagged helm]

wageautomation-price spiral?

[turbid wyvern]

oh shoot, we were so much focused on how much the game is good that we forgot about the price

[meager walrus]

The value of each iron ore decreases as the factory grows?

[north cargo]

The year is 2063, Factorio has increased in price to $230, it still sells 500,000 copies a year

The factory must grow

[meager walrus]

Well, until you get prod module

[turbid wyvern]

default price of AAA went from 60 to 70

[jagged helm]

hmm, so factorio is 0.5AAA

[brittle ledge]

Even at $35, this game is still $0.0087 / hour of entertainment value for me.

[merry herald]

i still remember the price

[north cargo]

That's a fun thing to calculate

[jagged helm]

nevermind the discord server!

[north cargo]

"How hilariously cheap is this game based on price to playtime"

[merry herald]

are you guys bragging about having an adiction?

[meager walrus]

Imagine if that happens to the potential buyer population at large

[north cargo]

Came to the wrong place to mock people being interested in Factorio 😂

[merry laurel]

"yes, factorio has a free demo!"

[merry herald]

im interested in factorio

[turbid wyvern]

given how crappy the "AAA" games are nowadays, what would factorio be?
actual answer: ||https://tinyurl.com/yeymxxmc||

[hearty abyss]

If so, it's more like bragging that homeopathy works in this case

[strange saddle]

Stockholm Syndrome in a nutshell

[north cargo]

That joke is way too big brain for me right now

[merry laurel]

I was going to try to apply this to xeno's paradox, but before I could finish it I had to finish the first half of it, but before I could finish the first half…

[north cargo]

KwirkyJ hobbled by hir own meticulous verboseness

[vapid gyro]

They are planning on charging for the expansion AFAWK right?

[north cargo]

I think there's like....3? Maybe 4 actual dissatisfied people so far

[vapid gyro]

The thread on Reddit would beg to differ…I see 2k upvotes on the top comment. I bought the game ages ago but I think they’re making a mistake with the increase.

[hearty abyss]

Yes, and it was stated to be about the size/price of the base game IIRC, leading to a higher expected valuation for the DLC as well

[north cargo]

*on this discord that have expressed their opinions

[jagged helm]

well, if that turns out to be the case, hopefully they (Wube) will present the sales data in a future FFF

[north cargo]

And an upvote does not necessarily mean agree, it could also mean "I think this is worth talking about"

[bronze kelp]

2k upvotes on the top comment? the top comment doesn't even have 1.5k upvotes

[silver slate]

People are being so overdramatic about the price increase jeez

[vapid gyro]

https://reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/10gwmb8/factorio_next_week_on_thursday_26th_january_2023/ this one

[north cargo]

1795 now

[silver slate]

So much entitlement jesus

[silver slate]

It's just a video game bru

[bronze kelp]

r/pcgaming should honestly be renamed to r/entitledgamers

[warm basalt]

Neophyte was talking about the factorio subreddit

[karmic ocean]

oh i just always saw them as the same name

[north cargo]

Price decreases make more sense to be based on reduced sales, not age of the game

[bronze kelp]

the game "released" just over 2 years ago and there's a planned expansion coming in the next 2 years. people are talking as if it was released back in 2006

[silver slate]

Half of that thread is just people who haven't played the game complaining that some indie studio decided to raise the price of their game

[merry laurel]

Is there any organized effort out there to express dissatisfaction with the planned price increase? I think they promised never to do it in the past as a justification for the game never going on sale
<#vanilla-chat message>
you may be misremembering a couple things, most prominently being the pricing forecast related to the 1.0 release (the link was given in the other chat but I can't dig it up quickly)
If you are convinced that they made the claim never to raise the price of the game, source the claim

[silver slate]

You'd think wube is EA by how they're talking about it

That said I think it's still a questionable decision to raise the price

[vapid gyro]

I agree. It’s not a huge increase. But I think it’s a mistake.

[north cargo]

Spoiler: ||the claim isn't there: and the one that does exist has a simple exception||

[north cargo]

Why?

[warm basalt]

what was the one with the exception

I don't recall it

[north cargo]

It was linked like 5 times lol

"unforseen circumstances" - paraphrasing

[warm basalt]

I must have missed it pre-thread

[north cargo]

The unforseen circumstances here being simple inflation

[warm basalt]

I didn't even know they had a guarantee at all, even with that exception

[vapid gyro]

yeah sorry that’s not unforeseen

[north cargo]

What is unforseen is that the game continues to sell

[karmic ocean]

In early 2018, Wube said that the new price of the game will be $30 USD, and that "This is the final Factorio price update, unless something unforeseen happens". They also said "As you probably know we have a strict no sale policy. The game will not go on sale on Steam or any other platform.". Source is https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/016-price-change .

$30 USD in 2018 is approximately $34 in 2022 dollars. Increasing the game price by $5 accounts for the value Wube loses from inflation, and effectively keeps their "value per sale" the same as it was when they established the base price. Source: https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=30&year=2018

[north cargo]

500k a year, like clockwork

[warm basalt]

yeah, and the switch port helps keep up the sales too since it 's a new platform

[jagged helm]

on the other hand, a good portion of the current inflation is companies deciding to disguise price increases as "just due to inflation"

[north cargo]

Yeah that's nice 😄

[meager walrus]

Behold the solution to this “problem” that people have https://www.businessinsider.com/sweet-co-apologizes-for-raising-prices-2016-4?amp

[vapid gyro]

I’m guessing they expect an increase in sales of the base game when the expansion comes out and they want to capitalize on that

[north cargo]

Corporate "inflation" 😠

[warm basalt]

the expansion still doesn't have a release date at all right?

[vapid gyro]

Cause their sales will go down with the higher price. Will they make more or less money I don’t know…but they’ll go down

[north cargo]

The expansion has nothing to do with the price increase, from what I understand

[strange saddle]

Will their sales go down for 5 dollars extra?

[vapid gyro]

Absolutely

[north cargo]

That's a prediction...based on what trend exactly?

[vapid gyro]

Simple supply and demand. Question is how much.

[jagged helm]

the experiment will be run, and hopefully they'll post the results (should be interesting)

[bronze kelp]

marginally if at all

very much won't be noticeable

[north cargo]

Yeah I'm gonna need to see some actual prediction data, because the current set doesn't predict "slight justified price increase will kill sales"

[vapid gyro]

You guys are insane. Price goes up on a thing the sales go down. Unless you are forced to buy something.

[north cargo]

Lol so insane

[bronze kelp]

that's not how it works

[jagged helm]

really depends on how elastic or not the price is (which we don't know yet)

[warm basalt]

we'll need to wait and see really

[strange saddle]

I already knew I was insane, but this isn't the reason why

[north cargo]

[meme] that's not how many of this works

[jagged helm]

InsaneDeleters? 😛

[round fulcrum]

last time they raised the price sales went down

[north cargo]

InsaneFrost

[vapid gyro]

@round fulcrum I mean it’s just common sense that they would.

[round fulcrum]

mhm

[bronze kelp]

yes, if the price had maybe doubled

[strange saddle]

The last time they rose the price it was a 50% increase

[karmic ocean]

In early 2018, Wube said that the new price of the game will be $30 USD, and that "This is the final Factorio price update, unless something unforeseen happens". They also said "As you probably know we have a strict no sale policy. The game will not go on sale on Steam or any other platform.".
• Source: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/016-price-change .

USD inflation rates from 2018 to 2020 averaged at about 1.8%, consistent with the average over the last decade or so. This inflation rate has nearly quadrupled to an average of 6.75% in the last two years. This is arguably "unforeseen".
• Source: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

$30 USD in 2018 is approximately $34 in 2022 dollars. Increasing the game price by $5 accounts for the value Wube loses from inflation, and effectively keeps their "value per sale" the same as it was when they established the base price.
• Source: https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=30&year=2018

[north cargo]

"common sense" is a very lazy argument, data and actual logic please 🙂

[warm basalt]

honestly it's an absurd gesture for an increase of 9cents USD but if nothing else it sends a very "we care about the customers" message which is great PR for them

[round fulcrum]

you already posted this within the last 10 minutes. im not sure if repeatedly posting it is helping the conversation

[orchid dagger]

^^^ free data on price increases

[north cargo]

So in other words, the price hasn't actually changed really 🤔

[vapid gyro]

@north cargo @round fulcrum already gave you your answer

[karmic ocean]

I added a section and improved formatting.

[north cargo]

Yeah no lol

[vapid gyro]

Yeah yea lol

How about you find me another game with a price increase and some sales data on that? Where’s your data bud?

[north cargo]

You post statements with nothing substantial underlying them

[orchid dagger]

Is factorio's data on price increases not enough?

[vapid gyro]

You state sales won’t drop with a price increase. Where’s your data.

[warm basalt]

it's almost like a "reverse sale" people will rush in after the announcing to get a lower price before the change occurs
makes sense though

[bronze kelp]

where's your data bud?
where's your data bud?

[strange saddle]

You're the one trying to prove that the sales will drop

[north cargo]

I never stated that 🙂

[orchid dagger]

And I'm pretty sure Minecraft's sales haven't decreased after the many times it has increased in price

[round fulcrum]

last time they increased the price sales dropped though (meant for Xori)

[bronze kelp]

marginally, for like a few weeks

then it recovered

so no

[vapid gyro]

@bronze kelp source

[winter iris]

whats the new price

[bronze kelp]

xori has already sent it multiple times but w/e

[orchid dagger]

$35

[winter iris]

people getting pressed over 5$

bruh

[orchid dagger]

yep

[meager walrus]

Yep

[winter iris]

you realize inflation exists

[round fulcrum]

mostly i think people want to be understood

saying their feelings are invalid doesnt help

[bronze kelp]

i'm no cheapskate but REEEEE $5 INCREASE
this is the energy that i feel the r/pcgaming post reeks of

[vapid gyro]

I am not saying this is the end of the company or horrible for them, just a not so good decision.

[round fulcrum]

yeah thats the stuff that doesnt help

[winter iris]

they clearly have reasons

and have thought about if it will increase or decrease revenue

[bronze kelp]

their feelings are invalid though

[vagrant heath]

the extra 5 dollars it so they can still pay their employees and stuff, 30 wasn't enough

[warm basalt]

this is a really rough brush to paint people with and just inflames conversations fyi

[karmic ocean]

Posting one more time (sorry) with another update, for ease of linking to it for people:

1. In early 2018, Wube said that the new price of the game will be $30 USD, and that "This is the final Factorio price update, unless something unforeseen happens". They also said "As you probably know we have a strict no sale policy. The game will not go on sale on Steam or any other platform.".
   • Source: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/016-price-change .

2. USD inflation rates from 2018 to 2020 averaged at about 1.8%, consistent with the average over the last decade or so. This inflation rate has nearly quadrupled to an average of 6.75% in the last two years. This is arguably "unforeseen".
   • Source: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

3. $30 USD in 2018 is approximately $34 in 2022 dollars. Increasing the game price by $5 accounts for the value Wube loses from inflation, and effectively keeps their "value per sale" the same as it was when they established the base price.
   • Source: https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=30&year=2018

4. For additional context on sales numbers, note that according to Wube, they have sold over 3.5 million copies. "We are still having steady and consistent sales of about 500,000 each year, which in retrospect validates the original no-sale policy we have stuck with since we launched on Steam in 2016."
   • Source: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-372

5. For additional context on playtime, according to Steam, the average playtime for a Factorio player is "7d 1h 21m". For the average player, a $5 increase in the base price of the game increases their cost per hour of playtime by $0.03/hour, from $0.18/hour to $0.21/hour.
   • Source: https://store.steampowered.com/app/427520/Factorio/

[winter iris]

i severely doubt, the 5$ will actually harm the sale of the game

[round fulcrum]

no, being upset at a price increase is a normal and valid feeling

[north cargo]

Couldn't find the per year, but this is pretty neat

[round fulcrum]

because losing money is something people dont like to do

[winter iris]

be upset with capitalism then

[round fulcrum]

no

[bronze kelp]

sure, but these people take it as if it was a personal attack against them specifically in typical reddit fashion

[karmic ocean]

Why? How does it affect you?

[strange saddle]

One thing I'd like to note about this post is that the sales were already starting to decline before the price change. I would argue that the price change isn't even necessarily what was causing the sales to drop in this scenario

[winter iris]

the price increase is inline with inflation

like EVERY normal good

[north cargo]

@vapid gyro there you go

[vapid gyro]

And?

[north cargo]

You wanted sales information

[vapid gyro]

Sales dropped. You see the same link I do.

[round fulcrum]

it doesnt affece me much but if i were to buy the game or recommend it to a friend, it would cost $5 more, which is bad.

[north cargo]

Not substantially

[merry laurel]

(without labeled axes, it's impossible to quantify)

[strange saddle]

But did it drop because of the price change?

[thorny saffron]

I'd argue there is not enough data to tell if it's a permanent drop, or just the effect of people buying it a few weeks earlier

[vapid gyro]

Exactly. I have gifted the game to a few friends.

[turbid wyvern]

factorio will never be too expensive for as long as it will cost less than fifa and its lootboxes

[north cargo]

Pretty straightforward

[karmic ocean]

Per steam, the average playtime is 7d 1h 21m. An extra $5 is... trivial.

[north cargo]

Weekly sales seem irrelevant when compared to annual sales

[round fulcrum]

pay me $5 then

[winter iris]

is anyone gonna mention the fact larger studios charge double for games with less content and no updates

[strange saddle]

Also this. I'm certain there would be mountains around Christmas as well as sections dying off.
We can't just say "Yeah the price increased and the demand dropped" as if we know the correlation equates the causation

[bronze kelp]

sure people might need to pay more for the game, but the game itself has the same value. the value of the game didn't increase, the value of the money decreased

[vagrant heath]

tf2 ^

[north cargo]

Obviously wages for working people haven't gone up enough compared to cost of living and inflation, but that isn't Wubes fault, or something they can do anything about

I would rather they stay in business and keep making awesome things

[winter iris]

tf2 is free

[winter iris]

false

atleast not in my country

[round fulcrum]

i think most people would agree that

• the game costing more money is bad for people who want to buy the game
• its understandable for people to be upset by things that are bad for them

[vapid gyro]

Real wages vs real expenses have gone down for working class people

[vagrant heath]

Mexico upped their minimum wage

[warm basalt]

I think it 's actually only gone up by ~5 or so bucks since launch (1.0.0), but it's a bit messy because of the various editions and splits, and the recent merging of java and bedrock into one purchase

[bronze kelp]

so wube is a controlling part of your country's economy?

[winter iris]

the wages have increased at a set limit something like 2%, but the past few years inflation has been 0

it rebounded

[karmic ocean]

For additional context on playtime, according to Steam, the average playtime for a Factorio player is "7d 1h 21m". For the average player, a $5 increase in the base price of the game increases their cost per hour of playtime by $0.03/hour.
• Source: https://store.steampowered.com/app/427520/Factorio/

[north cargo]

Uh, over what period of time?

[round fulcrum]

please stop posting this

[vapid gyro]

Past few years

[warm basalt]

actually I think the 5 bucks increase was the "You get Bedrock for free" for Java

let me check

[karmic ocean]

I have not posted that before. You may need to take a step back and take a few breaths.

[winter iris]

studied that in economics, but ya. wages increase at a steady pace inline with inflation,

[north cargo]

Yeah gonna have to disagree with you there bud, my gas and grocery bills alone are depressing

[winter iris]

but instead of 2% every year, it was like 0.5%, then rebounded

[merry laurel]

#more-offtopic is that way

[winter iris]

u think that, but its stastically false.

[hearty abyss]

Is this accounting for the surge prior to the increase resulting in spent-demand afterward?

[winter iris]

u just had more spending power than you where meant to have over the past 5 years.

[hearty abyss]

I also wasn't aware that data was available

[round fulcrum]

im aware but your comments are approaching spam because they fill my screen with several links every time

[vapid gyro]

@north cargo

[north cargo]

I don't need your ping to see your messages lol

[thorny saffron]

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/FT_18.07.26_hourlyWage_adjusted.png

[round fulcrum]

FFF-247 says

You can see that there is a noticeable decrease in sales before and after [the price increase]

[bronze kelp]

"spam" it was posted 3 times and mistakenly didn't close the embeds. stop exaggerating

[hearty abyss]

Let's not get political in this thread

Speckled-- lol

[karmic ocean]

Oh, the horrors of a chat msg taking up... 3 lines...

[vapid gyro]

How is that political?

[north cargo]

This is the "outrage quarantine" thread

[round fulcrum]

yes and you have been quarantined into it as well. welcome 🙂

[hearty abyss]

Sorry, I'm just keenly aware of adjacencies and trajectories with this sort of thing

[thorny saffron]

I'm fine with it as long as it stays somewhat relevant to the price increase

[strange saddle]

So how are we to know if the new price is directly the cause of the sales drop?

[thorny saffron]

Definitely watching it

[jagged helm]

hmm, the question is whether we can extract useful work from the resulting pressure 😛

[north cargo]

Hmmmm

[bronze kelp]

talk about taking things out of context

You can see that there is a noticeable decrease in sales before and after, but overall it is still quite strong and consistent.

[north cargo]

Even if buying power is similar, cost of living is up

[winter iris]

u can see here, wages increase with by the average inflation of all time, so you had more spending power before inflation rebounded.

[round fulcrum]

it would be very difficult to tell if the change in sales is solely due to the price change but it seems reasonable to assume it is, given the timing and the effect price changes have on sales in general

[winter iris]

people had more money than they should have

well, more buying power.

[karmic ocean]

One more post, with the added paragraph and updated formatting. The intent is to have a single msg that people can link back to as needed, rather than multiple.

[thorny saffron]

Also, the after-change sales should be adjusted for the price increase if you want to know the revenue

[karmic ocean]

1. In early 2018, Wube said that the new price of the game will be $30 USD, and that "This is the final Factorio price update, unless something unforeseen happens". They also said "As you probably know we have a strict no sale policy. The game will not go on sale on Steam or any other platform.".
   • Source: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/016-price-change .

2. USD inflation rates from 2018 to 2020 averaged at about 1.8%, consistent with the average over the last decade or so. This inflation rate has nearly quadrupled to an average of 6.75% in the last two years. This is arguably "unforeseen".
   • Source: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

3. $30 USD in 2018 is approximately $34 in 2022 dollars. Increasing the game price by $5 accounts for the value Wube loses from inflation, and effectively keeps their "value per sale" the same as it was when they established the base price.
   • Source: https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=30&year=2018

4. For additional context on sales numbers, note that according to Wube, they have sold over 3.5 million copies. "We are still having steady and consistent sales of about 500,000 each year, which in retrospect validates the original no-sale policy we have stuck with since we launched on Steam in 2016."
   • Source: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-372

5. For additional context on playtime, according to Steam, the average playtime for a Factorio player is "7d 1h 21m". For the average player, a $5 increase in the base price of the game increases their cost per hour of playtime by $0.03/hour, from $0.18/hour to $0.21/hour.
   • Source: https://store.steampowered.com/app/427520/Factorio/

[winter iris]

from a economical standpoint

[round fulcrum]

epic

[bronze kelp]

ok how do you forget to close the embeds 4 times

[strange saddle]

@karmic ocean Can you please just edit your old messages?

[merry laurel]

any reason you didn't simply edit your pinned message?
🥷

[thorny saffron]

Oh come on, I've already pinned that. No need to keep reposting it.

[karmic ocean]

I removed the embeds

[vapid gyro]

I mean…can we all agree that ANY price increase on any good is going to result in a drop in sales? At least by some percentage. I even said earlier they may or not make more money with the increase accounting for the lack of sales

[karmic ocean]

I didnt know I had a pinned msg

[round fulcrum]

I think so

[silver slate]

Nah it will

[karmic ocean]

DIdn't know it was pinned, sorry!

[winter iris]

2. USD inflation rates from 2018 to 2020 averaged at about 1.8%, consistent with the average over the last decade or so. This inflation rate has nearly quadrupled to an average of 6.75% in the last two years. This is arguably "unforeseen".

wages also increased by more than 2% in most countries, outpacing inflation. inflation has just caught up to what your original buying power should have been.

[thorny saffron]

Also, <link> will preempt the embed

[round fulcrum]

in conclusion, please stop reposting that

[silver slate]

Yeah wube just pissed off a bunch of people for no reason. Now you have a bunch of people screaming about how wube is a greedy evil capitalistic company

[strange saddle]

That's correlation, and actually that's an inaccurate assumption on the correlation at that as the sales were already on a downward turn before that. If you just cut out the malformed data you can see the slight downward trend that was already there before and after

[silver slate]

You can do 9 things right but if you do 1 thing wrong they think ur a villain

[vapid gyro]

I just think, aside from the financial argument, it’s not a good thing for them to be doing. Makes them look bad. And I doubt this will make them that much more money.

[north cargo]

There isn't "no reason"

A reason was given, even if some people don't like it

[bronze kelp]

more like people got pissed off for no reason. it's a completely justified price increase to match monetary value in to game value out

[winter iris]

they are changing the price to be what it should be

[thorny saffron]

All attention is good attention, no? :P

[hearty abyss]

...?

[winter iris]

in conclusion, trains are bad

[thorny saffron]

[merry laurel]

a theoretical perfectly inelastic good will have no impact from a change in price. on first principles and for all practical considerations, your argument is valid. it remains a question whether reduced sales are covered by the increased income from the raised price

[north cargo]

Unrelated, something weird has to be happening if I'm agreeing with @bronze kelp about something (something controversial)

[thorny saffron]

Well that was perfectly timed, lol

[round fulcrum]

theory and experience of economics shows that price increases reduces sales, except in exceptional situations. so I would say that I would ask for evidence that we are in an exceptional situation. And there hasnt been any evidence of that, espeically given that by your own admissions evidence shows factorio sales are correlated with price

[jagged helm]

I think "should" is a stretch here; Wube could have chosen to ignore the current burst of inflation, but that's not what they chose

[merry laurel]

not everyone's screen is as wide as yours

[winter iris]

this is what i was attempting to say, and im on the side of buying power was more than it should have been anyways.

[north cargo]

Mines like 3 inches wide

[silver slate]

Ehh whether the price increase is necessary is debatable but in the end wube pissed off a bunch of potential customers and they're not gonna care about the reasons for doing it. It's a bad business move imo

[winter iris]

and get less value?

[orchid dagger]

I'm not sure many of them were potential customers tbh

[jagged helm]

depends on how value is being measured here (which is always the trick in economics)

[north cargo]

$0.005 per hour with a $5 price increase doesn't change the value much

[bronze kelp]

bad business move
the only bad business move is not valuing your product

[winter iris]

ima be honest, this game is pretty niche. i dont see many casual "gamers" buying it, and the ones who would will just spend the extra 5$

[hearty abyss]

That..depends on the expansion, I think

[winter iris]

buying power.

[orchid dagger]

fair

[strange saddle]

Are you completely ignoring evidence of decreasing sales prior to the price increase? And that alone can cause enough doubt as to whether or not the price increase directly led to the further dropping of sales? This is basic statistics at play

[jagged helm]

is that the best metric to use, though?

[thorny saffron]

If I tilt my monitor sideways it still won't fit

[winter iris]

yes

[jagged helm]

why?

[winter iris]

because its logical.

[strange saddle]

I win again
(What is that, 900p?)

[jagged helm]

doesn't include goodwill or loyalty, though

[winter iris]

say you buy 1 egg in 2002, you can now buy 1 egg in 2022 at a increased cost, but your wages also increased.

[bronze kelp]

people actually have the members list tab open?

[silver slate]

What

[warm basalt]

Yeah I checked through Wayback
For Java Edition, the launch price (November 18th, 2011) as of 1.0.0 was $26.95 - Which was the same price for Java up through June 7th, 2022, when Java and Bedrock would then be sold in the same bundle, which raised the price to $30 dollars

I don't think Minecraft is a great comparison here, because of this. There were numerous pre-launch changes, but not really many post-launch price changes
I did get Minecraft at a very good time though, way back in Classic when it was like 10 bucks

[silver slate]

I'm pretty sure increasing price is gonna drop sales by a bit

[strange saddle]

27 in... what currency?

[winter iris]

brand loyalty only works when their are multiple opportunities to spend money

[merry laurel]

but will it drop income?

[silver slate]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is objectively a bad business move whether this right to do so or not

[strange saddle]

I'm certain I bought Minecraft for $15, USD

[winter iris]

factorio is a single game, not a series of games

[orchid dagger]

Thanks for the research 😄 I got it for less (£18?), but that was Beta 1.7, so I guess that makes sense

[bronze kelp]

that doesn't seem accurate at all

[winter iris]

disagree

[hearty abyss]

Expansion is in the works

[jagged helm]

well, with the expansion happening at some point soon, we'll all have that opportunity

[warm basalt]

If you can find other post-launch minecraft price changes, let me know
Bedrock might have changed, but I'm not sure

[winter iris]

brand loyality is mainly used as a figure for clothing brands, food goods ect

[karmic ocean]

A 16.666% increase in price means they can take a 14.29% decrease in sales and still make the same amount.

[warm basalt]

Yeah it was something like 14 Euros during beta

[winter iris]

*i only did 3 years of economics, and cant remember half if it

[warm basalt]

I got it back in 2009

🧓

[jagged helm]

sure, but it's still applicable here, I think

[warm basalt]

you had to play in browser back then

[bronze kelp]

according to the minecraft wiki, alpha 1.0.0 had a price increase to €10 (previously €5), beta 1.0 increased that to €15 and the full release was €20

[winter iris]

i dont think i spent 30€ on the game if i remember correct

[silver slate]

It's probably gonna be a bit more than that for decrease in sales

[warm basalt]

yes - Post-launch price changes

[winter iris]

not really

[warm basalt]

that's what I said

[jagged helm]

my only point was that "value" is a slippery thing

[karmic ocean]

Not once a DLC comes out and I buy the base game for my friends 🙂

[winter iris]

you are aware we all own the game right

[silver slate]

"everyone" being potential players

[north cargo]

Oh my

[orchid dagger]

[citation needed]

[warm basalt]

The early-access price changes were similar to factorios

[winter iris]

who here doesnt own factorio

[silver slate]

I'm referring to people who are like mildly interested

[hearty abyss]

@silver slate Rule 1 please, i.e. attack the discussion point not the person

[strange saddle]

There's quite a few people, but let's not narrow the scope to a single discord server

[winter iris]

enough to join the discord?

unlikely

[silver slate]

Obviously not anyone from this discord

[round fulcrum]

I own it!!!

[jagged helm]

it was funnier before the edit 😛

[round fulcrum]

ehehe

[bronze kelp]

making statements with wild guesses based on pure speculation is not needed

[round fulcrum]

I won it too!!

[winter iris]

my actual prediction: no one cares about the 5$ who are actually wanting to buy the game

[north cargo]

But we can count on it being given

[bronze kelp]

the price increase is justified. if people are gonna cry about inflation then aim that frustration at the economy and not wube

[silver slate]

People who are slightly interested will see people saying that wube is greedy and that they shouldn't buy and they'll be like "oh ok" and their decision is gonna be cemented by the fact that the game is more expensive aka harder to justify buying

[jagged helm]

I wouldn't argue that it's justified (well, I disagree with the given justification, I guess!); but it is what it is

[round fulcrum]

if I found someone who cared and who wanted to buy the game how would that change your view?

[north cargo]

We made a thread for a reason

[winter iris]

i have never went "oh i only have 30€ not 35€, guess i cant buy this"

[warm basalt]

I think it makes it slightly less likely for impulse purchasers to buy it but I doubt it'll make a big impact overall

[winter iris]

because if your down to less than 30€ u require a job

[warm basalt]

i.e. the people that end up with 50000 games in their steam library

[winter iris]

if they had 30€ why dont they buy it.

[strange saddle]

Reasonable people already knows not to believe ranting and raving like that. Nobody is swayed away from a game because "This company is greedy!" or "This company is evil!", they're swayed because "I played for 3 hours and ran into more bugs than minutes"

[hearty abyss]

That's easily dismissed (justifiably or otherwise) as a hypothetical rather than actual outcome (desires not translating into action)

[winter iris]

no one here has seriously went im not buying this because its 5$ more and i would only spend x amount

[jagged helm]

though, to be fair, one can run into a lot of bugs in 3 hours of factorio 😛

[winter iris]

if you had enough to buy the game originally, you have enough now.

[round fulcrum]

I know -- that's why the "prediction" isnt really worth anything

[royal furnace]

Not everyone in this world is so lucky as to be able to do this. There are people out there on very tight budgets for who 5 euros is a lot to spend on non essentials

[strange saddle]

Oops, set myself up for that one

[thorny saffron]

I'm currently holding off on a GPU upgrade over €20 :P

[bronze kelp]

sure but those aren't buying games in the first place

[warm basalt]

I've done that with plenty of purchases in general
not games, but I will definitely not buy some things at the store if they cost too much over a threshold

[winter iris]

but they where willing to spend 30€ originally.

no one does this.

[silver slate]

I don't rlly know where lemures got those numbers from either though. I was suggesting that more goes into it probably then a simple supply demand curve

[warm basalt]

I feel that (GTX 1070 gang)

[silver slate]

Yeah good point

[hearty abyss]

That's overly blanket, even if it's a small number of people they will still exist

[royal furnace]

Maybe they’ve been saving for a while. You know there are people out there incapable of working right?

[strange saddle]

(Check the pins!)

[winter iris]

i dont currently work, still can save 5$

[bronze kelp]

that are a small minority with their own problems and should not be thought of as the majority

[royal furnace]

I’m glad you are so fortunate then.

[winter iris]

what country are u on about

[hearty abyss]

Saying "they do exist" is not the same as saying they're a majority

[winter iris]

in this hypothetical

[jagged helm]

if you don't have an income stream, you can't technically save any of it

[warm basalt]

yes, peaces claim is that they are nonexistent

[winter iris]

u can find 5$ worth of scrap metal.

[strange saddle]

I had an internal argument about exactly that. I consider it a job.

[winter iris]

no, they exist, not in the countries im thinking of though

[bronze kelp]

sure but just because poor people exist doesn't mean you can't increase the price of stuff. it's a misguided argument

[jagged helm]

and what's it cost to haul it to the scrap yard? (for me, that would be a car rental and $5 in gas)

[royal furnace]

Sure, I’m more commenting on the “Just get a job” line, than the increase

[warm basalt]

I think you're the only one who's operating in the framework of "only some countires"

for this converstaion

[hearty abyss]

The argument was about whether those people are worth acknowledging in this discussion not whether they are the tipping point on the price increase decision

[winter iris]

i mean, u have to have a pc and internet to purchase the game/run it

[jagged helm]

technically, you could download it from an internet cafe, or similar

[warm basalt]

you'd be surprised at the number of people that rely on publically-accessable internet access daily for everything

[winter iris]

this is what im thinking:
you have a pc that can run factorio
have access to wifi
have access to 30$ but not another 5$

[bronze kelp]

this discussion keeps derailing into "but there's people that don't have any money". sure, those people exist but they don't buy games, they very likely don't have a computer and they sure as heck aren't spending money on games if they have one

[winter iris]

who fits into this, 0.1% of potential buyers?

[round fulcrum]

yes, obviously wube can price their game however they want. however, minimizing the burden it adds to people buying the game (the additional burden is objectively 5$) is silly and denies reality

[strange saddle]

In that sense if it's any consolation, the 50% price increase back in 2018? didn't (at least noticeably) impact the sales outside of the announcement period

[bronze kelp]

it's not "minimizing", it's being realistic and not exaggerating

[round fulcrum]

why would you minimize it though? there's no need. people are complaining about burden being placed on them. that's a valid complaint

[hearty abyss]

The more you pile on dismissiveness, the more people will rail against the invalidation itself, price be damned

[winter iris]

u have a pc that can run factorio, wifi, 30$ and 5$ is a massive burden to these people?

[thorny saffron]

I'd say the main group impacted by this is kids, not poor people.

[bronze kelp]

sure, but when the only argument back is "but they exist and are poor" then there is no argument

[round fulcrum]

exactly this

[winter iris]

this

[jagged helm]

a 10-year-old laptop can run factorio, though

[winter iris]

depends on the laptop

[bronze kelp]

wube aren't required to fix society so poor and disabled people can have enough money to play their game. this discussion has completely shifted from "is it a reasonable price increase" to "but there are people that are not fortunate enough to have social safety nets"

[jagged helm]

midrange i5 from 2011 with intel graphics?

[warm basalt]

people will put up with terrible performance if that's all they have
(this is why I played minecraft at 10 FPS in 2009 😢 )

[winter iris]

a 10 year old gaming pc can run current triple A games, but its intial cost would be like 3k

[winter iris]

doubts on that running it

[silver slate]

I think imo wube still could have just stayed at $30 and help out people that are kind of struggling with money but it's ultimately their decision and they're not doing anything outrageous content wise like adding microtransactions or something (cough squad *cough).

[warm basalt]

yes this will tend to happen when inflation is used as a justification for price increases

[jagged helm]

it doesn't run it well, granted

[strange saddle]

I could never stand 10 FPS unless it's a constant 10 FPS

[winter iris]

Here are the Factorio System Requirements (Minimum)

CPU: Info
CPU SPEED: Dual core 3 Ghz+
RAM: 4 GB
OS: Windows 10, 8, 7, Vista (64 Bit)
VIDEO CARD: DirectX 10.1 capable GPU with 512 MB VRAM - GeForce GTX 260, Radeon HD 4850 or Intel HD Graphics 5500
PIXEL SHADER: 4.1
VERTEX SHADER: 4.1
FREE DISK SPACE: 3 GB
DEDICATED VIDEO RAM: 512 MB

[warm basalt]

that was with render distance down tiny too

[bronze kelp]

and?

[winter iris]

playable

and no, 10 fps is not playable.

[jagged helm]

for some people, it could be

[warm basalt]

strong disagree

since I lived with that for several years

[bronze kelp]

i beat watch dogs at 3-7 fps, 10 fps is definitely playable

[warm basalt]

it sucks but you manage

[strange saddle]

10 FPS is playable. Maybe not to you, but some people can play with 10 FPS

[hearty abyss]

A natural reaction should be acknowledged so that it can be overcome with more thought, rather than suppressed and made either implosive or explosive

[winter iris]

i cry when i get under 100 fps

[strange saddle]

If it's a steady 10 FPS you will eventually not realize it

[round fulcrum]

it is objectively an additional $5 burden. it is up to them, not you, to judge how much of a burden that is on their lives. if you do not want to listen to the complaints, you do not need to enter thre thread

[warm basalt]

yeeep

[jagged helm]

I've never gotten 100 fps on anything, lol (then again, 100 fps would be wasted for me since my monitor is only 60 Hz)

[winter iris]

on fps games*

[north cargo]

This thread is amazing, otherwise the main channel(s) would get totally swamped

[winter iris]

monitor cap?

[silver slate]

I mean that's not rlly the argument though. I think the argument is that wube can probably get away with keeping it at $30 and still get a nice amount of profit from it. On the other hand, the $5 might impact people who can't rlly afford it

[strange saddle]

I would advise against gatekeeping. This channel is specifically for discussions related to the price increase

[north cargo]

FrostKeeping

[bronze kelp]

again, if people can't handle a $5 change in expenditure, then they shouldn't be buying games

[strange saddle]

Ice wall

[winter iris]

W

[strange saddle]

I disagree

[jagged helm]

summons an undead dragon

[warm basalt]

I'd assume someone already brought up that if Wube had to raise the price by 5 due to inflation, that it's likely that consumers would also need to tighten up their luxury budgets due to inflation/economic problems, which would mean less sales in any case

[winter iris]

these people in this case would also be willing to spend 30, but god forbid 35 on a game

[north cargo]

I ||vote present||

[round fulcrum]

isnt it the case that saying someone's complaint about a price increase is invalid gatekeeping?

if that complaint is in the thread about price increases?

[strange saddle]

As a 16 year old I didn't have that much money to my name. At best I could buy Minecraft Alpha, but I wasn't able to go and buy whatever I pleased whenever I pleased

[north cargo]

Maybe we can complain about how the game doesn't go on sale 🤣

On sale from $70 to $35, permanent decrease!

[round fulcrum]

I suggest creating a 2nd thread to contain the complains about the complaints

[strange saddle]

I was referring specifically to the "You do not need to enter the thread" bit at the end

[warm basalt]

it was my Christmas gift

[bronze kelp]

they're probably already seen a decrease in sales due to inflation so increasing the price to fix it to the value they wanted makes sense. they don't want to lose revenue due to less sales at a lower value, so making it so those who actually can and do buy pay a higher price to compensate for lost sales

[winter iris]

the thread is for discussing the price increase, against and for

[thorny saffron]

No.

[idle pawn]

And of course, those who are neutral

[night forge]

Aside from early access games increasing in price when 1.0 comes out, what is another game that raised the price?

[winter iris]

neutrality is fake

[warm basalt]

well yeah but the crux of the issue is if that 5 increase also does or does not mean it's now priced out of people who are tightening up their budget

[karmic ocean]

No @idle pawn , don't bring reason into this, that's not what this is about.

[north cargo]

Where all the unbalanced current goes, right?

[winter iris]

why dont they just charge 70$ for it, standard pricing

[idle pawn]

I set my splitter to prioritize neither left lane nor right lane

[north cargo]

Because it's on sale not sale for $35, ez

[warm basalt]

I assume most agree that this would cause a drop in sales, at least

[jagged helm]

then we'll really see if demand is price-inelastic 😛

[night forge]

I don’t oppose the price increase. But I think Wube is doing something unique.

[brazen linden]

70
i remember a time that wasn't the standard price, but inflation and other complex economic reasons . . .
and yet, that became quickly accepted as far as i can tell, but i don't bother buying games these days often if at all

[bronze kelp]

sure, and? my point still stands: those who can't buy won't so the total income must be compensated in some way so the price is adjusted in accordance with inflation. thus the price stays at the same value. i don't get why there needs to be anything beyond simply that

[winter iris]

same

[hearty abyss]

I have wondered about the laws regarding "discount" advertisements, and whether the sale FAQ's joke about Factorio being 50% off in the eyes of some would be illegal in some places if embraced

[merry laurel]

"Can you not see that a turning point has been reached in the affairs of the Federation?"
"History is replete with turning points, lieutenant. We must have faith."
"Faith?"
"That the universe will unfold as it should."
"But is that logical? Surely we must—"
"Logic, logic, logic… Logic is the beginning of wisdom. Not its end."

[karmic ocean]

I wonder how many complaints there would be if the game actually DID go on sale, relative to a $5 increase.

[winter iris]

isnt the new baseline price for the cod games 80$ now

[warm basalt]

why are people making constant comparisons to COD

[round fulcrum]

im sure there would be a few people who would be upset (rightfully so, perhaps!)

[warm basalt]

these games are in very different markets

[winter iris]

prices follow the leader

yes

we know

[north cargo]

Loophole would probably be to return to full price one day a year

[bronze kelp]

the illegality comes from showing a price and then saying it's on sale, but it actually being constantly on sale. not by saying "it's practically 50% off" as that isn't actually a sale nor saying there's any "original pricing"

[idle pawn]

My favorite noodles increased in price by 33%, and yet, tonight I will enjoy them all the same

[winter iris]

but its funny to think about

[karmic ocean]

I would be one of them, lol

[warm basalt]

compare it to terraria, minecraft, etc.

[hearty abyss]

I'm aware :P

[winter iris]

my chinese place stopped selling honey sauce dip, so i now pay them double to make it for me.

[turbid wyvern]

you are right
mosaique neko waifu 5 is only at 2.39€

[jagged helm]

oh, you don't mean belt spaghetti, then? 😛

[hearty abyss]

No, that is specifically cited as a % of time / duty cycle / frequency thing in such legislation

gahhh sorry ping

[north cargo]

It's ok

I wonder what the ratio is

[winter iris]

i got footLOL: epic soccer league for 9 cents

[silver slate]

Idk why people are getting so emotional over a game they don't play

[hearty abyss]

Same reason people get emotional about tax hikes on the rich they'll never be part of.

uh

okay

I need to step away

[winter iris]

this made no sense

they complain for a different reason

[jagged helm]

IC telling it like it is

[winter iris]

selling my base, was 30$ but on sale for 35$

[bronze kelp]

you know what hasn't risen with inflation? our wages
it's funny how people somehow connect their wages not being increased because 1. greedy corpo and 2. because it would make inflation worse to companies not being allowed to correct their prices due to inflation

[strange saddle]

Some of their logic as well... The one comment mentions investors as if the investors aren't expecting a return

[bronze kelp]

cyberpunk moment

[winter iris]

this game has investors?

[north cargo]

Bu-but someday I could be the exploiter!

[warm basalt]

temporarily embarrassed millionaires

[silver slate]

What I'm seeing is that people are using the argument that Factorio doesn't require any maintenance to actually sell since it's a digital gam therefore inflation doesn't apply

[north cargo]

Just down on my luck

[winter iris]

the dumbest arguement ever.

holy moly

so many issues with that lol

[silver slate]

Ye they're ignoring the fact that the game still took work before it was finished

[winter iris]

inflation has nothing to do with cost of production, its to do with the buying power of the income.

[strange saddle]

I don't believe so. The one comment mentions about Triple-A games having investors to make up for the lack of sales (lit. "where most of the money comes from"), which is basically saying "Investors give it money and don't get anything back from it."

[winter iris]

not only that, the game is still actively maintained

[silver slate]

Idk if it's just that subreddit but like are gamers usually this entitled

[bronze kelp]

nintendo: releases mini-nes for an insane price with the roms taken from 3rd party rom sites
people: "yay i can relive my childhood now" proceeds to pay upwards of $100
wube: *increases price to match value of game due to inflation
people: "because my wage hasn't increased i will denounce this company as i didn't see any adjustment due to inflation"

[winter iris]

ironic part: wages have increased

[bronze kelp]

wages increasing slower than inflation doesn't really count now does it

[winter iris]

if wages go up 3% every year, while inflation remains at say 0.5%, if inflation then rebounds u havnt went into the negative

wages have increased faster than inflation

inflation just rebounded

and inflation will then go back to a steady amount

like it always does

[bronze kelp]

insert one of those goofy bowling clips with a blob shooting a hockey puck that rebounds off the goal

[winter iris]

people are mad their buying power has decreased

but dont realize it was never meant to be that high in the first place (from a economical view, not a poltiical or social one)

wages increased steadily in the past 5 years, inflation slowed, more buying power. inflation rebounded, now its basically baseline

[jagged helm]

sorry, where have wages gone up that much?

[winter iris]

2.2% in ireland

if i remember correct from my eco classes

[strange saddle]

I mean, considering the cost of Triple-A games have almost always been 60 USD for 40 years?

[north cargo]

How can that be anything other than a political opinion lol "meant to be"

[jagged helm]

ok, but how about for larger countries? (say, the US)

[winter iris]

triple A games used to cost more in terms of buying power.

[winter iris]

i study my countries economics

and the EUs

someone else will have to gather the figures regarding the US

but im pretty sure its the same.

[jagged helm]

unfortunately, it's not

[winter iris]

worldwide inflation was lower than it was meant to be.

[karmic ocean]

@winter iris Are you accounting for increased cost of living? Wage could increase, and cost of living could increase more, leaving people with less to spend on Factorio, independent of inflation.

[winter iris]

thats a known fact

[north cargo]

Minimum wage has been the same for like 20 years

[winter iris]

cost of living is dependent on ALOT of factors

and the area

[warm basalt]

this seems like a bold claim to make when you said you haven't studied the US's economics

[north cargo]

Rent and food prices are up a lot

[winter iris]

unrelated to inflation

well, related

but if your on about major increases, its unrelated.

[winter iris]

hence i didnt say im sure

[north cargo]

You have to get a roommate just to afford a studio apartment on minimum wage

[warm basalt]

"pretty sure" is pretty confident sounding

[winter iris]

dependant on location.

[winter iris]

because most countries have a set inflation increase to wages

[north cargo]

"places where people live"

[warm basalt]

is most "the ones I have studied" or most worldwide

[silver slate]

Ye this is what I was talking about earlier. People being driven away bc of this, although I'm not sure if it's enough to overcome the stats on the pinned posts and make sales actively go down

[warm basalt]

the US does not have a self inflation to increase wages federally

minimum wage must be manually raised through law changes

[winter iris]

the most in multiple countries other than the US

[idle pawn]

1 chocolate doughnut in 2020 cost 11,90 Kč
1 chocolate doughnut in 2023 cost 14.90 Kč

[winter iris]

most countries dont either that im aware of.

its just the standard

[strange saddle]

Ironically this is more of a case of "Pirates have never intended to buy"

[winter iris]

i only have ever pirated games i would never buy or play for more than 2 hours

[warm basalt]

can you clarify because I'm not understanding any of this with this earlier statement
because most countries have a set inflation increase to wages

[winter iris]

a standard, ya.

[jagged helm]

minimum wage indexed to inflation or something?

[warm basalt]

so the standard is - Countries tie wages into inflation to raise them automatically

right?

[winter iris]

minimum wage is unrelated, but most companies will increase ur wage by some amount to be inline with inflation

[winter iris]

countries?

[north cargo]

Minimum wage would be like $30/hr if it kept up with inflation

[winter iris]

standard IN the countries i know of

[jagged helm]

laughs in US companies

[warm basalt]

ah that makes it much more clear than
because most countries have a set inflation increase to wages

[bronze kelp]

fascinating how the people that think that games aren't worth buying because they don't go on sale, still buy food products and clothes that aren't on sale
kinda says a lot of how people think of game developers

[winter iris]

i have 0 interest in the US side of things, only covering the EU in my arguements related to economics

[jagged helm]

I buy games on sale because I figure that's what the devs think they're actually worth

[north cargo]

There's nothing wrong with trying to save money

[karmic ocean]

I don't even..

[jagged helm]

ok, but keep in mind that a good portion of us here are from the US (so your analysis will land somewhat differently for us)

[silver slate]

You could also make the argument that this type of thing could drive ppl to piracy. The decision to pirate a lot of the time is based on whether the person thinks the dev deserves their money (not always but often)

[winter iris]

garantee thats time dependant

[silver slate]

Not agreeing with the image I posted though it's very entitled

[strange saddle]

Those guys were already pirating though

[north cargo]

We take shifts

[warm basalt]

Has wube ever shown the breakdown of sales by country

[winter iris]

it would be very hard to judge where people are from this server unless u stayed up 24 hours and asked them

[bronze kelp]

i only buy games whos' prices i can justify that they'll be worth that much in enjoyment, on sale or not, otherwise i don't buy them

[jagged helm]

admittedly I was being a little facetious there

[silver slate]

Ehh I guess. Didn't seem like it for the first comment.

[strange saddle]

I see what you mean but I don't think this will induce more pirates that aren't just waiting until they get more money

[bronze kelp]

people who go "no sale = no buy" are usually closet pirates

[warm basalt]

I would recommend not saying you are "pretty sure" next time then when asked about how it is in the US if this is the case

[winter iris]

as someone who pirates games, if i want a game i would ever buy i would just buy it i pirate games that i know i wont play for very long e.g kill la kill, played for 10 minutes lol

[north cargo]

I pirated the demo

[strange saddle]

I refuse to pirate. As an aspiring developer myself, I have too much respect for devs and the teams

[bronze kelp]

kill la kill has a game? wut

[strange saddle]

Okay that made me actually laugh aloud

[winter iris]

so it would be wrong to say most people employed in the US dont have any form of wage increase related to inflation?

[silver slate]

Ok now I also see people arguing that because Factorio is an old game that it shouldn't increase their price

[winter iris]

piracy isnt bad.

[silver slate]

Yeah most of these people have zero clue about the game whatsoever or it's development cycle

[bronze kelp]

i stand by what gabe said on piracy and only stay within that predefined area. it's also never games nor software

[winter iris]

if someone is going to pirate your game, they where never gonna buy it or play it for long in alot of cases

could just be to test it out

[north cargo]

We have shit wages, and corporations are exploiting us pretty effectively overall

[warm basalt]

this is basically how the industry tends to do it, which fair nor not does impact this

[silver slate]

Ehh debatable

[strange saddle]

I disagree, and I'll just say it now that I won't budge on that opinion (to save us all the headache)

[bronze kelp]

piracy is morally wrong but ethically justified

[silver slate]

You're enjoying a product that was intended to be bought

I would say that's bad

[winter iris]

morals are different for everyone

[north cargo]

Our union representation is also shit, so bargaining power is garbage

[royal furnace]

Please remember that advocating for piracy is against ToS

[orchid dagger]

Isn't that what the refund is for?

[winter iris]

advocating for piracy related to the game i assume

[bronze kelp]

no, discord tos

[winter iris]

i do this too

[north cargo]

Like, period lol

[winter iris]

is this piracy?

[royal furnace]

Period, it is a Discord policy

[strange saddle]

I advocate for Demos and the refund period trials :)

[winter iris]

discord hates free speech related anything

[orchid dagger]

Refunding a game using store's refunding system isn't piracy, no.

[winter iris]

its the same function.

[strange saddle]

Nope. You don't get to keep the game afterwards.