I think the game is going in the wrong direction...

[true prawn]

The doomposting addiction is too strong.

[small crystal]

i suppose

[carmine wagon]

your just making it an ego conflict while i was just asking for better scaling of difficulty to make a better game for everyone, i never said nightmare should be the most difficult mode of the whole game life but it is atm so why nerf it when it was the only challenging mode except for making it accessible for lower leveled player that dont want to make to much effort or die in a "harder" difficulty

it leads to a give up from a part of the community maybe less "important", but that's those player who gonna spend the more time in it and give the game a real lifespan

si its cool people can go nightmare at level 30, then they will realise that they are too much op for the game above first prestige and be bored bc of no challenge only farm for farm and no goal not even a winning screen with an actual value

all that bc casual want to rank up way too fast and dont worry about ruining the main goal of a game while they had just to accept to stay on their lane

devs just do what they think is better but if we bring more nuance maybe they will start thinking more about balance for the next updates, now i just see a ton of person asking to nerf this or that, it is impossible... and see that only this part of player are listened now. I just wanted to talk about my concern as another type of player

that's sure if you all ask for an easier game that what we are gonna have i think it make sense

[true prawn]

No one's asking for more nerfs rn. Balance is in a good spot for the current slate of enemies.

[strong canopy]

Its really not an ego conflict, why not open to the possibility to feed both sides of the table? And yes ik the game devs is working on new content, but still with these changes, it seems like they just going to feed casuals

[carmine wagon]

that's what im saying, im telling it an ego conflict bc of the others guy just trying to be rude lol

saying doomposting doomposting or misunderstanding my words :p

[strong canopy]

Warframe for example, they fed casuals so much, theres apperantly only small % left of the community that plays sweatty, rest of them left

As addictive this game has gotten for me, i want to see both sides of the table stay and enjoy the game, this game has multible difficulty for playerbase to choose from, why does nightmare have to nerfed for casuals so they can “feel strong”

[carmine wagon]

i try to talk of this possibility to feed both side as you said but it looks like some are fearing being unable to succeed nightmare no more

[true prawn]

It wasn't "nerfed for casuals." That's a completely distorted way of perceiving the changes. You're too stuck on your premise to consider literally any other balancing perspective.

Hence why you're so alone here.

[carmine wagon]

so we want now to add another diff we wiil wait for it too, but after that people will call it too hard again lol

[strong canopy]

5 snipers being able to shoot one target at once made it fun

Had to get priority between targets

[carmine wagon]

thats what i want to see in my nightmare

[strong canopy]

Now people can mainly just shoot boss and ignore sniper completely

[carmine wagon]

but there is to much people saying impossible above 3 sniper :p

[strong canopy]

Crazy

[carmine wagon]

they should just go hard instead of yelling thats common sense

but even devs dont assume it so we make easier for casu to be pleased

[strong canopy]

If i wasnt able to do nightmare, it would just make me wanna be able to do it more

[carmine wagon]

that's just my point of view i dont try to be mean for anyone

[true prawn]

Yeah, y'all haven't learned anything about how the devs are thinking about balance, despite people sharing words from the devs' own mouths. IDK why I'm reengaging here. Enjoy your circlejerk.

[strong canopy]

And the harder a content is, the more determined i get, idk what others feel

I never seen them speak or say anything for future updates

[carmine wagon]

i see you just want a game that please you and not every type of players as it should do

[strong canopy]

Is there a place to read all these?

[carmine wagon]

and my request should not even bother you lol but idk why it seems to much for you that asking for mob to be themselves in a challenging mode

[strong canopy]

How does just want harder content only want to please me specifically? If others are complaining about the same thing 💀

[true prawn]

LMAO. I am the sweatiest PvE SoB out there. I have 3,000 hours in my main game, the difficulty modded into oblivion with the other high level players. I just understand more about balance and game development and design because I actually do it.

[carmine wagon]

im talking to ethereal bro

[strong canopy]

Ah

[carmine wagon]

we got the same perspectives whyt should i tell you this

[strong canopy]

Too early, im out to work 5 am 😴

[carmine wagon]

i dont understand why it bother you so much wanting the actual hardest mode to stay hard for maybe diversity of gameplay/style

[strong canopy]

Acedigi, just let it go, hes one of them who has hard time on default nightmare mode 😂

[carmine wagon]

people are not forced to play in the hardest mode mainly if they are frustrated about it

[carmine wagon]

we are a really few thinking like this apparently and i think its sad

[strong canopy]

Putting x2 on nightmare is what default nightmare shoulda been

[carmine wagon]

even very hard should be harder :p

[strong canopy]

Yes i think so too, its way too easy as it is

[carmine wagon]

hard is not even difficult like bro words dont have meanings here

[strong canopy]

I just hope they make a endless run type content with leaderboards, enemy scaling and spawnrate increase

[carmine wagon]

let's named every difficulties casual 1,2,3 at this point

[true prawn]

I do want it to be hard, and I'd love to see deadeye max aggro increase alongside the difficulties. The problem was that the challenge, especially the snakes, felt arbitrary to people. The snakes, especially, shut down 2 of the 3 pillars of fun in the game's design (shooting, spells, & movement), which when spammed creates an experience that is frustrating in ways that are entirely separate from difficulty. The solution to the snakes is more CC enemies that all have different CC interactions, which the devs have said they are working on.

Things like the deadeyes are especially a problem in new PvE games, where people are still struggling to figure out counterplay strats. This will get better over time. Again, the devs know this, per their own words.

There's very real game design and player psychology considerations here that are important

[carmine wagon]

snake doest even deal damage and they exist to bother you

deadeye already had a lot of counterplay

[strong canopy]

Is just a cancel mechanism to drag on the game 😂

[true prawn]

I'm not arguing either of those things.

[carmine wagon]

and as i said people who just dont want to deal with should play in normal

[true prawn]

Deadeye 5+ aggro was a problem for the onboarding experience with them in Very Hard. Their aggro cap should scale with difficulty.

[strong canopy]

And people should learn BHop properly too, i dont even use movement speed sometimes, depends what i build

[carmine wagon]

Ye +3 deadeyes was a problem in very hard, 2 in nightmare is ridiculously pointless

[strong canopy]

I dont even go for deadeyes anymore

[carmine wagon]

that's why im talking about balance between diff

[true prawn]

The fact that I am explaining pillars of fun, a core game design concept, to you and you still want to engage in elitist snark is why you don't understand. You won't listen.

[strong canopy]

I just let them fly and shootme

[carmine wagon]

And do you listen that there was already 4 lower difficulty for players whose cant handle it

bc we were numerous to play it as it was

[true prawn]

"Frustrating in ways that are entirely separate from difficulty.

[carmine wagon]

what's fun for casual are not the same for tryharders

that was part of the difficulty for me and i used to handle it

[true prawn]

Yeah, I'm done here. You can't grasp that I'm a fellow tryhard trying to explain important game design considerations.

[carmine wagon]

when i see 6 snipes on me i know i was cooked and that's what i expect from my nightmare

[strong canopy]

Sweatty players have nothing bad against casuals to say, but then again, why are casuals fighting us on about game being too hard and they want it easier?

[true prawn]

"Frustrating in ways that are entirely separate from difficulty.

This is why. I answered your question.

It's Pillars of Fun

[carmine wagon]

i dont find it frustrating, it is for people who cant appreciate difficulties

they should play very hard so

walking texas simulator : pillars of fun :p

[true prawn]

Okay, you are literally incapable of grasping this. Have fun.

[carmine wagon]

Think the same about u that's ok have a good day man

[strong canopy]

Dw acedigi, casuals will never understand

Not worth fighting the dude haha

[carmine wagon]

When you see that the thread got 33 dislike you know that people doesnt even read and are not open for a well-balanced game between all type of players

[strong canopy]

Real 😂 these people will allways have something to complain about

[carmine wagon]

ye and now im the complainant bc i liked better how the game was before all this bs

and they tell me i dont really love the game that's crazy 😭 😭

[strong canopy]

Who even started this thread?

[carmine wagon]

me

[strong canopy]

Hahaha

Bro been fighting all these demons all by himself

[carmine wagon]

I have to do it..

[strong canopy]

Understandable, i too want the game to be harder

[carmine wagon]

it makes me practice my english btw lol

[strong canopy]

U eu?

[carmine wagon]

french

[strong canopy]

Oui oui

[carmine wagon]

at least as it was :p

[strong canopy]

Baguette

[carmine wagon]

we will wait for harder but not easier pls

[strong canopy]

Ye, i need a game thats just so hard, very small % can do it, and even they shouldnt be able to have 100% successrate

[fresh path]

I need to clearly explain what I want, translation sites suck

Then, on this discord you can speak french or english

[regal tundra]

No one will ever translate or understand

Just be normal bro

Speaking a different language doesn't make your opinion better

It just makes us not understand it

Which is lame, from you.

[fresh path]

You have to translate a single message when I have to translate THE whole discussion, and I'm complaining ? No

Copy paste, congratulations you have just translated a single message

[fresh path]

Obviously he's not better wtf, just that expressing myself in French on such a vast subject allows me to have a clear dictation of what I want

[hoary bramble]

That's just how games survive bro, only listening to the 5% of player will frustrated the other 95%.
Helldivers prove it easily, diff 10 isn't even a challenge anymore outside of unbalanced event like cyberstan or malevolant.

[wintry ibex]

Ok, I will go real slow so even someone like you can understand.
Almost all people is this thread, me included, EthealDoom included, purduerx95 included, and many other included, think that current game is too easy and want to find interesting solution to make the game harder. We had for example a discussion in this thread on adding a second enemy to punish high speed players, first one being sniper, that could block movement like snake bloke your shooting.
We also, multiple time, linked dev messages that are explicitly saying that they also think that the game is too easy right now and that they will ramp up the difficulty in future patch, but in doesn't think to insert in your smooth brain.

Your group is by far and wide wildly exaggerating the first and only patch that was released, saying thing like 500000 changes to makes the game easier at hard difficulty while they are only 2 nerfs on enemies. Also comfortably forgetting that they largely nerfed what was by far the strongest weapon, shotgun with overblast, in the same patch.
It would be ok if your group add at least interesting propositions on how to add more difficulty to the game, but all the lot of you have to say is more difficulty or game die again and again (nice doomposting btw, really bring the HD2 energy here).
And don’t count the sorry excuses in your French post. 1,25x the damage ? Interspersing, groundbreaking, revolutionary I must say. Passive invulnerability ? Couldn’t even think of adding a enemy that make other enemies invulnerable until killed.
Special mention to acedigi with his take “at least FromFoftware don’t do nerf, they have balls them, true gamer them”, when they literally nerf some boss.

And you really didn’t think for one moment when I called you a little elitist gatekeeper that I could read your post. That maybe, just maybe, I was also french ?
If you want to speak in french, create a french thread, that’s like basic forum etiquette here.
C’est pas possible, on t’a vraiment bercé trop près du mur quand t’étais petit pour que tu sois si bas de plafond, ça doit pas être facile tous les jours. Et tu sais, la merde qui sort de ton cul c’est pas du chocolat, faut vraiment que t’arrêtes de la manger, ça te fait pas du bien.

I’ve said my piece, 3558 out for this thread, no nead to beat a dead horse anymore.

[fresh path]

Who are you to talk to me like that?

Did I insult you ? I don't think so, stay quiet behind your screen

[hoary bramble]

Ptdr c'est bizarre, j'ai l'impression d'avoir dis exactement la même chose sur tout les servs ou j'ai eux une conv avec eux, toi aussi sur n'importe quel contre-argument il répondait "skill issue" ?

[hoary bramble]

Oh c'est bon fait pas prout dès que quelqu'un s'énerve parceque c'est horrible d'avoir une conv construite avec vous.

[fresh path]

Je me fais insulter, genre je vais rien dire ?
Et il traduit que ça 😂
Faut pas se foutre de ma gueule non plus

[hoary bramble]

Woaw il t'as dis que t'étais bercé trop près du mur, tons honneur à été toucher ou ?

[fresh path]

C'est pas une question d'honneur, c'est une question je suis resté courtois, tu le restes aussi 🤷

[hoary bramble]

A un moment vous êtes insupportable faut pas s'attendre à de la sympathie en face les gars.

[fresh path]

J'attends pas de sympathie, juste de la courtoisie

La base dans un échange quoi

[hoary bramble]

Commence à l'être en premier allor, y a d'autre façon d'être irrespectueux qu'insulter.

[fresh path]

Bin je le suis

Parce que j'ai écris en français c'est la fin du monde ?

[hoary bramble]

Mister on nous fait répèter 15 fois le même message et quand il a finalement compris sa ignore l'argument ou lâche le joker ultime "skill issue" en mode y a que vos idée qui sont bonne nous parle de courtoisie.

[fresh path]

J'ai jamais parlé de skill issu dans l'intégralité de mes messages

[hoary bramble]

Et je suis pas le seul à le dire, j'ai vue 3-4 personne dire exactement la même chose plus haut dans le thread, à un moment faut ce remettre en question les gars.

[fresh path]

Ce remettre en question à quel sujet ?

Le faite qu'on demande une autre difficulté ? Je vais me remettre en question pour ça ?

Littéralement tout mes messages je dis que je comprends que des gens veulent des nerfs même si je suis en désaccord avec ça et que je souhaites une difficulté plus élevé où personne viendra pleurer sur la difficulté de cette dernière

C'est littéralement tout ce que je demande, sans jamais évoquer le skill de quelqu'un ou le temps de jeu accordé à ce jeu

Donc me sortir à moi que la carte "skill issu" a été dite c'est cool, mais ça me concerne pas 🤷

[hoary bramble]

Encore un bonne exemple que tu kick rien même en français, je me plain pas de votre take mais de comment la discussion tourne à cause de vous.