#Jabbathefrukt's Feedback - Reduce Restrictions

50 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

solar ermine
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I'll split my post into multiple points:

  1. There are too much restrictions on upgrade stat slots

I know it is possible to increase these even further, but having a cap on how many times you can upgrade your character and weapons stats feels really limiting.
It completely stops progression and it feels like your character stops gaining in power.
The current maximum values that stats can upgrade to are very low in my opinion:
Ammo Bag +80%, Health +30%, Spell Cooldown Reduction +12% (really!?), Speed +24%, Jump Height 42%.
If I want to create an ammo powerhouse with +300% ammo capacity I should be able to. Or +200% speed, or +75% cooldown reduction etc.
The current limits got reached after ~18 hours and I now don't have very much incentive to keep grinding as there is no longer any character or weapon stat progression.

  1. There are way too few joker slots.

14 slots sounds a lot but it really isn't much when you factor in that the good ones takes up around 4-5 slots, making you only able to have ~3 slots.
I know you pick up a bunch of joker cards in the actual game, but I would rather have them be part of my actual character instead of having to rely on random drops.

  1. A lot of joker cards can't be purchased.

Giant and Dwarf are two that comes to mind, but also things like the Extra Dash.
I wish that every single Joker that spawns in the actual game could also be purchased and applied to my character. If I want to be a permanent giant, you definetly should be able to.

  1. There are way too many restrictions on how much you can stack the same joker cards.

Being able to only have one of a lot of the joker cards makes very little sense to me.
Why is it for example that we can only equip one West Wizard (-30% spell cooldown, but -30% hp). If I wanted to create a glass cannon character with 0 cooldowns, I should definitely be able to.
Not being able to stack a lot of most fun cards more than once or twice, just makes the game feel way too restrictive.

earnest geode
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i feel like having very little restrictions or no restrictions is far too unbalanced. Personally, I think that the restrictions they have now are great, especially the jokers. I do agree, however, with the jokers in the world should be able to be purchased. Locking certain ones away is a bit lame.

bright ibex
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If you had higher stats and more joker slots, the game would become very easy quite quickly, the restrictions exist because playing a game where you just mow through all the enemies with ease becomes old fast. If the restrictions were lessened the difficulty would need to increase alongside it. But at the same time you don't want to make the difference between early and late game player power and game difficulty too great.

Maybe they could add a new difficulty setting that lets you up your stats and equip more jokers or something? But I think overall the balance is good and should not differ much

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I do agree that it would be fun to be able to purchase and equip all of the jokers though

solar ermine
remote edge
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This discussion has already been done somewhere in these forums

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The long and short of it is:
1: The restrictions are what make the game interesting and builds unique.

2: Many people believe they don't want them there, but if they were removed they wouldn't play the game ever again after getting their fill

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-# My deleted posts here were accidentally in the wrong forum btw

solar ermine
# remote edge The long and short of it is: 1: The restrictions are what make the game interest...

Many people believe they don't want them there, but if they were removed they wouldn't play the game ever again after getting their fill

I've already stopped playing the game for a completely different reason in that there is no longer any possibility to reduce the cooldowns further, making my low cooldown build completely stop in progression. I've also maxed out all the other stats anyways so there is literally no reason to keep playing unless I get to level 100, which is a grind without any progression.

Low restrictions is the reason why PvE games are fun in the first place. Just make more harder difficulties and there should be no issue to bump say maximum cooldown reduction to +50% instead of the current 12% (lol).

remote edge
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Then I would think that you do not understand the appeal to these kinds of games and that they are simply not for you

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Or the vast difficulties that come with letting the player scale so much, the base-system of the game gives limits to how far the difficulty can go

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(ones that I think will become final even without any buffs to the player)

solar ermine
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Then I would think that you do not understand the appeal to these kinds of games and that they are simply not for you

Please enligten me, what is the appeal once you've maxed out progression and unlocked every map/weapon? Without the progression there is almost no reason to play the game unless the gameplay is really fun, and personally I didn't get to that point yet in my build since the progression got maxed out.

remote edge
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Surely as a long-time pvp player in games without any progression whatsoever can find something to enjoy here?

opal beacon
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The appeal is the build craft. Restrictions are there because they enhance build craft.

there are games and systems that let you push further, for sure, and I reckon they might do the same here in time.

But at the current state of the game, I'm really enjoying the build craft around these restrictions. It's caused me to play in ways I dont generally try.

I actually think that it's really interesting that they added a roguelite element to this game. so I can build what I want, and it gets (possibly) enhanced during the mission; or I might change up what I'm doing mid mission to adjust for what I roll.

There is a lot in-game at this current point for really fun builds, especially the synergy around some of the weapon unique jokers/ combo spells/ and hero legendries. A low cool down build is a bit difficult to build, tbf, so I feel ya. though paring it with the sniper unique works pretty well.

remote edge
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I will add that yes, for now the difficulty is lacking, but giving the player more progression would only worsen that problem, it would be chewing at the wrong end of the string

remote edge
solar ermine
# remote edge Surely as a long-time pvp player in games without any progression whatsoever can...

The progression in PvP games is the improvement of your skill. That still exists, but it's much less expressive because the NPC's are not intelligent the same way an actual player is in a PvP game.

That said, I like to play PvP games with almost 0 cooldowns. We're talking Quake, Smash, Overwatch (Lucio basically has 0 cooldowns on movement). Even with only using Cooldown Reduction joker cards and maxed out base stats, it's impossible to make a build with <5 second mobility cooldowns. You'd think that a solely PvE game would be able to make a more powerful build than what exists in PvP games, but that is not the case here.

remote edge
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You're not listening to the points we are making
And you are asking for this game which is not made for you, to be turned into one that is
At the detriment of everyone else

solar ermine
remote edge
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Ignoring previous points again

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Assuming everyone has the same taste you do

solar ermine
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I've seen the points about builds being more unique with more restrictions and I get that. Doesn't change the fact that the current maximum power-level is abysmally low. The same would happen at twice the stat points, and twice the joker cards. Only difference would be that builds would be more diverse, and more fun.

remote edge
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I find that to be untrue, and ignoring the difficulty-limit this game has because of the way it functions, but you are free to want that

solar ermine
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Even with maxed out stats and weapons, I personally still feel like hard and nightmare is a significant challenge, so I don't see the difficultly being an issue. But I feel like that's an easier fix and should not be the reason why progression and end-game power-level should be as low as it currently is.

remote edge
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Sounds like that lack of room for personal skill improvement isn't as prevalent as you thought!

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Nightmare is generally considered very easy with a full build

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There's your enjoyment and progression

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Unless you don't like that, in which case, again, the game is not for you

solar ermine
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Nightmare is generally considered very easy with a full build
There's your enjoyment and progression

I'm certain if I made a meta build with shotguns, pure sustain and damage etc, nightmare would be a walk in the park. But instead of balancing the best weapons and mechanics in the game, you would rather have a lackluster endgame that ends at level 40/50. It just doesn't make sense to me. Make a Super Duper Hard difficulty if that's needed. I don't want to accept that my current build is the furthest way it can go. And I don't want to keep improving my skill if the build isn't at a point where I'm happy with it, which it isn't right now. And making a different build wouldn't be as fun as I've already read and explored all the Joker cards and weapons that exist.

Unless you don't like that, in which case, again, the game is not for you

Could we please stop with this argument as it doesn't add anything but useless bloat. I actively try to make the game better and more fun for everyone. Of course it's subjective, but so is every single other feedback on this board.

solar ermine
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Jabbathefrukt's Feedback - Reduce Restrictions

vapid timber
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I do think you should be able to start with any joker but it does need to be considered how to do it since giant and dwarf currently just give you the effects of other jokers without the downsides its a lot harder to say that we should be able to take them at the moment but I have had so much fun with those jokers that I also want the ability to bring them, however I do not believe removing the restrictions would be healthy for this game for many reasons one is the jokers and the stats you can upgrade influencing each other need to be balanced in a way that makes builds feel viable regardless of what everyone else is playing and 2 is some of the jokers and stats do similar thing and it would become harder to make more content for the game feel engaging if it just felt worse than stat points.

solar ermine
vapid timber
# solar ermine Just make Giant and Dwarf into legendary joker cards. And again, more scaling ...

for the first point you are effectively getting the power of 3 jokers in one I would like to start with them but they would need either a higher rarity making it cost more than a legendary to bring or to nerf the jokers to be in line with other legendary jokers.

plus your second point doesn't really answer anything I said since I was speaking about the power of the jokers we have available clashing with what your asking for it would be ok to loosen the restrictions but completely removing them is not an option in the way your suggesting since 75% cooldown reduction could be done by jokers like voodoo mastery for example if you have a lot of voodoo spells hence my comment before I believe you would like the game to be better but there are parts of the game that require these restrictions to keep other parts working well.

solar ermine
# vapid timber for the first point you are effectively getting the power of 3 jokers in one I w...

I mean it's kind of hard to understand your comments since you don't use any periods. That said, I personally don't feel like Giant and Dwarf are that much better that they would need an even better tier. And if that was the case, I would want the maximum joker slots to be even more increased than what I'm already proposing.

I never said to completely remove restrictions but I do think that they are very strict at the moment. They basically hinder progression past level 40 and doesn't allow for very interesting and fun builds.

I've used every single cooldown reduction card in the game and the most I've been able to achieve is 50%. It could potentially get cranked up to say 60-70% if I used the spell mastery cards aswell but then I'd have to get rid of my other cards. Basically, if I want 75% cool down reduction, that is what my entire build will focus on. What if I also want some other joker cards aswell that is unrelated to cool down reduction? This is why I want the restrictions reduced. There is no reason for the current harsh restrictions other than making people's experience miserable and cripple progression.

inner temple
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Ok, so to talk about the jokers being in the shop.

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Dwarf and giant are much too op to be regular legendary jokers

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they are essentially a 3-in-1 for 5 slots

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extra dash i would love to see, camper is a maybe

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Also I'm not sure if you know this

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but the difficulty in this game isn't very high

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more jokers and more upgrades slot(no restrictions) would trivialize the current difficulties

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now, with more difficulties and challenges in the future, i could see more of that opening up

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I'd like to see something for the players like me with 5+ prestiges, meaning the only thing we are working toward is the far far west legend title

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maybe after prestige 5 you can start earning more joker slots or something?

solar ermine
solar ermine
# inner temple but the difficulty in this game isn't very high

Which is why I think they need to add more difficult difficulties. I personally haven't gotten to that point yet as I find nightmare hard with my current build, which is another reason I'd want more upgrade slots to make my cool down and mobility build actually viable.

unique burrow
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This isn't an ARPG, you can't just have infinite progression with infinitely scaling difficulty. All that would accomplish is heavily fragmenting the playerbase. There has to be a point at which progression stops

umbral grove
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I think if they unrestricted the upgrade system it would destroy any difficulty and would be bad for long term health. I do wish that we could prestige joker slots to 18 instead of 16 so it’s more viable to run legendary jokers.

solar ermine