#Yall need to rework or REMOVE snakes

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

woven tinsel
#

there's a few reddit page, wont take much effort to look it up, just look up "far far west snakes" and there'll be more detailed descriptions.

These things are ANTI skill expression and are soiling my enjoyment a metric fuck ton. I love the game but Jesus, they need to be larger, more bright or implement the ability to quickly parry them as they lunge onto you and only punishing you with the horseshit, any action interrupting animation upon failure. I play solo/duo nightmare most of the time and these things spawn a LOT. I can confidently say 75-80% of my "losses" come from this criminal robber of skill expression.

I'm not sure if they should be removed but I feel like they need to actually fit the game flow, because currently? they fucking don't and It's not an opinion, it's a fact, nobody without a lobotomy procedure done on them are defending these things, I don't think I've been more upset at a game in my life LMFAO aside from that, flawless game

dusk grail
#

skill issue tbh

coarse peak
#

i like the snek

#

its not that bad

thick yew
#

I love the slapping animation to get rid of the snake. maybe we all just need lobotomies.

pseudo crystal
#

Maybe make their jump a bit slower so you have time to punch them away mid-air

novel ferry
#

I think the main issue is just how many of them there are. If the enemy was rarer, there wouldn’t be nearly as much backlash

stark flume
#

Only thing I'd ask is to make them more obvious, but they are fine. Calling them anti skill expression I think is absurd, as hearing them and reacting is a part of the skill expression of the game.

woven rain
#

It's a snek, not a snake

red slate
#

Agreed. I absolutely hate snakes. They are not a fun mechanic. They are frustrating. I've been playing on nightmare as well and the combination of snakes+snipers is just so dumb.

Sure, you can see them coming or hear them but combine this with the fact you have to;
a) Be ready to shoot any snipers which often involves looking away
b) Be ready to dodge any horseman, rocketeer or gunner projectiles
c) Make sure no slasher guys or explosive dogs are sneaking up on you
d) Make sure you don't accidentally backtrack into a wave starter

Additionally with some of the cool abilities like "Swap" you can end up swapping with a snake you didnt even see and it will still grab onto you so now congragulations you are stunlocked and surrounded by enemies.

The speed at which you click barely even changes things. The slapping animation is significant enough of a time waster that it doesn't really matter. Additionally it just isn't satisfying like the rest of the combat and just feels out of place imo.

red slate
#

and you literally just cant shoot fast enough to deal with this situation with some builds

midnight tundra
# red slate Agreed. I absolutely hate snakes. They are not a fun mechanic. They are frustrat...

can confirm it is like this i think they should be re worked as a visual annoyance and you just melee any time to get them off your screen so you can chose when to remove them instead of them demanding a input and locking you out of everything entirely

-side note i've lost 2 nightmare runs due to 3 snipers shooting at me while trying to reloading get canceled out of reload and now i have to take 3 shots plus have to remove the snake

gusty zodiac
#

I like the snakes, because it gives me some random unexpected scenario

red slate
gusty zodiac
red slate
#

I dislike that it limits any potential aggresive opportunities. Especially with abilities like swap. Playing aggressive is fun. There's many fun aggresive plays that snakes just make unviable.

#

Like I'll see a group of enemies, from afar and decide to swap in, only to teleport into a snake and get stunlocked surrounded by enemies

#

or try and swap in and do contagion or something

#

you can barely even see the snakes at that distance

#

let alone hear them

#

Ive also thor hammered onto one before, like what!? Playing aggresive is fun, yet as it stands abilities like wisp, acid rain etc are super strong simply BECAUSE they counter snakes and other annoying stuff

gusty zodiac
#

Who said you can't be aggressive even if there are snakes? Honestly its just how you play or plan your aggressiveness I think, but yeah snakes for me is a part of a challenge and your managing skills in a large group of enemies. FFW_stare

#

If they remove the snakes and snipers, the game will be to easy just to hold W, there will be no challenge, the game will die or will not be fun anymore, well its just me, we have different take on this

red slate
#

...

void gulch
#

Do yall not have headphones? You can hear em coming

red slate
#

Thats not the point

stark flume
# red slate you can't look everywhere at once though. When there's snipers, snakes and other...

Yeah. I also get hit by skeletons occasionally. Oh no! Anyway, let me use drain and top off.

I generally catch a fair number of snakes while using long ranger. Not all of them, but enough. Sometimes they get me and I take damage because of it. Sometimes they get me and I just run around until the snake is gone. They are annoying but not much more than snipers.

Here's some counterplay tips: Rain is basically a no snake zone. Wisp has a very high chance of killing them, especially if electrified. Any puddle will vaporize snakes that so much as breathe near them, so causing lots of puddles helps too. Using corruption often results in snakes getting hit by your captured minions. I think they are distracted by Decoyo but I don't run cactus so unsure. Obviously weapons with high firerates fair better like minigun and can occasionally flick to the feet of the horde to try and nail any snakes you might hear.

Biggest thing though is you hear them before you see them. The longer you play, the more you'll passively notice snake sounds. From there it becomes a test of reaction time and accuracy. Even if you fail, the punishment is minimal. Worst case scenario you eat a sniper hit that happened to line up on you the moment you got snaked, or maybe you get hit by a bit extra damage due to the delay on firing.

#

If snakes are genuinely a major pain point for you, running rain and wisp is great for hordes and happens to shut down snakes passively, so you'll rarely get caught by them. Run it with battlemage and if you like long ranger use that too so you can use the spells more often.

#

Pair with electric secondary like dual pistols to electrify wisp

red slate
#

But other spells like "Swap" which I find very fun and interesting are made less good by snakes

void gulch
red slate
#

like 0.1 seconds, I am not sure

#

it's when there are snakes, snipers, horseman etc that it's an issue

#

during waves etc

void gulch
woven rain
#

I love the snakes, keep them, they add a nice dynamic that keeps you on your toes

red slate
#

or theres 2 snipers behind you

void gulch
#

I don't have too much trouble since I have double speedy Gonzalez witch lets me avoid the hoard or duck behind cover

red slate
#

I often run disgrace because the speed is undeinably very useful

stark flume
#

The fact of the game is that not every loadout is going to perform well against every enemy and scenario. The game is balanced such that having a varied team with decent coverage is advantageous. A great example of this are that sometimes, storms will have a neverending stream of kamikazes and I see so many people kick dirt and die because they can never get a break. Meanwhile anyone running some mobility is usually fine and can kite the kamikazes more or less safely. Snakes have two ways to solve it, the easy way and the hard way. Easy way is having accessible AOE. Hard way is just being really good at detecting and killing snakes straight up.

If you're build doesn't handle snakes well, tough luck. Not every build trivializes every enemy. My long ranger obliterates bosses (relatively) and takes out elites and aerials nicely, but I struggle with chaff and snakes. I run corruption to try and help there, but it's not enough to protect me fully. I don't whine that I get snaked and it sucks, because I know I can just change my build and run any of the reasonable spells that perform well against snakes and chaff.

#

I CHOOSE to not solve snakes, and prioritize enemies I'd rather deal with efficiently.

void gulch
#

Good Ole machine gun shotgun and support spells with never ending ammo resupplys, but I need to eat ammo for snipers and I struggle with crowds

stark flume
#

I thoroughly disagree with snakes being problematic. The threat they pose is very minimal and disruptive, and they can be solved in a myriad of ways without committing your build fully to the idea.

#

A few dudes running rain and snakes basically go away forever. And rain is one of the most common spells in the game by players, at least on Very Hard, my preferred difficulty.

red slate
stark flume
#

I think best thing is to not overthink snakes too much. Slap away and keep moving. All they can do is irritate you and waste a bit of time.

#

Given you said that you're running movement, just keep moving. Snipers are a threat but it's unlikely a snake gets you killed to snipers

#

Also, next patch is nerfing snipers so only 2 at a time can lock onto you, which should remove situations where you would rarely get executed due to a poorly timed snake.

red slate
stark flume
#

Run some decent HP and second wind, which I assume you are, and this should minimize those rare situations.

red slate
stark flume
#

@red slate You can join the beta and experience the changes if you'd like. #┝🚩⬩announcements message

#

Your progress should be carried over and be persistent between live and beta, but I'd make a backup just in case anything funky happens.

red slate
#

but thats because stuff like wisp and acid rain just feels so OP

void gulch
#

Wait. Sombody do the math dose second wind do more healing than hit me

red slate
#

depends

stark flume
#

Yeah very much depends.

red slate
#

hit me is good for constant attacks, second wind is good when you suffer an unexpetced load of damage

stark flume
#

Hit me is 10 health over 20 seconds, resetting every time you take damage.

stark flume
#

The more spread out the hits, the better.

red slate
#

yeah thats kinda what I meant

#

like sporadic attacks is what I shouldve said

stark flume
#

I believe Hit Me can heal more health at it's theoretical maximum.

#

Based on my quick math.

#

@void gulch

#

But that's not accounting for stacking

#

I am unsure how exactly both scale

void gulch
stark flume
red slate
#

in my experience hit me is super strong

stark flume
#

So assuming 100% uptime, hit me heals more over time.

void gulch
stark flume
#

This fact wouldn't change. It would still heal more potentially

#

That said second wind is still a better tanking perk IMO.

#

It increases the amount of burst damage you are capable of taking

#

And any damage that you'd take over your maximum health is wasted

#

Meaning it has damage negation as well

#

So that being said, I'd run Second Wind first, but Hit Me is definitely worth running if you want to do a lifesteal tank.

red slate
#

I initially ran hit me but ever since swapping to second wind I haven't been able to get rid of it

stark flume
#

We should move this to #┝🔫⬩builds

red slate
#

yeah lol, this has long since changed topic haha

#

whoops

karmic marsh
#

with the chaos and sounds of the game snakes are near invisible

stark flume
#

I wouldn't mind them being made a bit bigger and more obvious, but I find that they aren't punishing enough to care for when I miss them occasionally.

karmic marsh
#

They rarely end runs yeah, they are more annoying then anything else?

#

Being grabbed by one guarentees that snipers get damage though so that sucks

#

I dont mind what they do, but it doesnt feel like when you step on one you made a missplay

#

Its more so the game giving you a random Tax

#

if i get snaked i want it to be because i made a mistake

#

Not because i ran into an inaudible/invisible enemy

sand sail
stark flume
woven rain
#

same

#

they should add a seperate stat for snakes slapped :3

stark flume
woven tinsel
woven tinsel
woven tinsel
woven tinsel
woven tinsel
# karmic marsh if i get snaked i want it to be because *i* made a mistake

sometimes you actually can't pick them out swiftly because if you do, depending on the current pool of enemies, a lot of the time they are behind shields so you can't just snap to em reliably, you're constantly trying to pick out the current biggest threat, working down the ladder till you clear.

woven tinsel
coarse peak
woven tinsel
whole frigate
#

Snakes work well as pressure from hoard while kiting

#

I wish they where more visually obvious however

woven tinsel
coarse peak
grizzled owl
#

My issue is that they dont have a cooldown, so 2 or 3 can jump on you one after the other

rose jasper
#

I think the issue is how frustrating they feel, not how dangerous they are. I feel boxed into using acid or other fire-and-forget AoEs to deal with them. That said, I don't mind them. Some solid AoE really cuts them down most of the time.

I do like the idea of them having a cooldown so they can't sequentially pummel you. That's when I have my, "REALLY?!", moments.

#

If y'all are struggling really bad with them, like run-ending bad, bring Surcharge and some spell CDR, or something like Contagion or Rain

#

Wisp + electric works great too

woven tinsel
rose jasper
#

Elec seems to be all movement based, but it supercharges other spells. It's really the synergy engine, I'd definitely recommend it or using it on a secondary.

#

Elec + Wisp is so silly I fully expect it to be nerfed

woven tinsel
#

😂 I'll keep that in mind

whole frigate
#

A great spell to keep them off you is strikes since it leaves puddles and has low cd so spamming it into grows often kills snakes

astral coyote
#

Noob

zealous topaz
#

ssssssskill issue

woven tinsel
coarse peak
#

i also don't think its a skill issue either. they are annoying but hardly ever run ending. i think a diminishing return on them would be acceptable. Like if one hugged your face the next ones just damage you instead for a certain amount of time instead of giving you kisses again.

woven tinsel
zealous topaz
sturdy meadow
#

@zealous topaz @astral coyote Please do not make these comments in feedback if you dont have anything constructive to say

woven rain
karmic marsh
#

Are they balanced? Probably yes as they don't restrict your movement and just stop you from shooting for a second or two

#

So 99.5% of the time stepping on one is a mild inconvience

#

But that doesn't mean they are fun, again if i get grabbed by one i want it to be because i fucked up in some way

#

but right now its just stepping on an invisible inaudible landmine, and that doesn't feel good

#

Their Audio Que gets drowned out by everything else, and their profile is often hidden by terrain/other enemys/ on screen effects.

#

i would totally be down for them being a more dangerous enemy in exchange as well, let me make a mistake and then make that mistake punishing

cyan summit
#

Maybe converting to a rattle-snake that hides in bushes, or places, and bites you when you get too close, ignoring the rattle-sound?

karmic marsh
#

Thats a fun idea

astral coyote
wanton smelt
lunar merlin
#

I think the worst part about them is that they are hard to see and hit.

red slate
#

it trolls me so much whenever i am using swap

slate quartz
calm pilot
#

why eveyone talking about " visually they are hard " they are snakes they are on the ground and they have an audio sound effect when any snake is around you? like do some of yall play with ought audio?

karmic marsh
calm pilot
#

i feel like your audo may be to low then

#

my experince has been completly difrent if i even care to look for the sake because they are sutch a non issue to my biuld maybe but i always hear them

karmic marsh
#

Im an audiophile, if i can hear the 60 pistol guys making their shots around me i feel like im fine

#

Its maybe worth noting that i play on mp which has more enemies and sounds playing

#

So theres actually a good chance that in Nightmare mode Multiplayer snake audio sometimes just doesnt play

terse bluff
#

The snak slap is very short, I've had 5 snak jump me in a row while fighting off a wave and it doesn't even block your mobility

#

They are hard to shoot, or usually too busy to even care

#

Just give them a slap and continue on

#

I use the minigun that needs a spin up, the snak will restart it, but high firerate also makes the spin up faster

#

So this really is a skill issue

slate quartz
terse bluff
#

I am more having trouble with the bomb dogs that spawns way too close to the player if they ever did decide to spawn

#

Had waves with so many of them instantly wiping out the team

red slate
#

ive mainly been playing coop and the absurd bomb dog waves has probably ended the most runs. They are fine by themselves but combined with an intesive objective (ie payload or the memory game) and its so hard.

terse bluff
#

I have observed them literally spawning in front of me many times

#

They climb out of the ground and I barely have time to react

autumn saffron
#

I dont find snake annoying because investing into raw movement already does a lot for every part of the game, but i can see how snakes limit build variety because the only way to effective negate them is movement
Killing existing snakes is weird cuz they’re small af and blend into the hordes

void gulch
sudden smelt
#

There needs to be a cooldown system in place to prevent snake spam. Like a 10s one.

noble island
daring latch
#

Maybe instead of a cool down, lot of snakes give different animation than a single snake.

  • One snake just about to leap
  • If x number snakes just behind it (levels of proximity, a coded check)
  • Multiple snakes leap at player
  • Snakes are coiled around POV > player grabbing, yanking, tossing them off.

Same length QTE, greater visual obstruction, no cooldown, reduces one-after-another

sudden junco
#

Its all fun n games until your traveling at Mach 10 and step onto a snake you didn't hear near a crowd and perish trying to wave clear

void gulch
daring latch
#

Yeah, it would "consume" more of the snakes that are accumulating, without invisible cooldown, but reduce back to back QTEs

#

The key difference in my idea, single vs multi, is that they'd hella be blocking your sight

void gulch
wanton smelt
wanton smelt
daring latch
rose forge
#

I think it's a great enemy, but there needs to be better countermeasures or jokers that mintigate them, etc.

spice flicker
#

Tips for dealing with them:
Use both your index finger and middle finger to press the LMB and it will only take 1 sec to get ride of the snake.

astral coyote
#

you can just hold the lmb

spice flicker
astral coyote
#

yeah bro

spice flicker
#

Ok that's awkward

astral coyote
#

idk its a bug hopefully its not lol

sturdy meadow
#

its not a bug

#

its an accessibility feature since people were complaining about having to spam click

terse bluff
#

Yeah you can hold it down

languid sequoia
#

maybe they should be a modifier? Or some monster should leave a snake upon their death? or maybe some snake nest that you have to destroy ?