Ideas For Some Design Adjustments On Existing Spells

[glass mantle]

I feel like some of the spells need a bit of extra oomph to make them more fun and/or useful, and came up with a few ideas. All of these are intended as changes to the baseline spell, but some of these could be introduced as jokers if you ever decide to implement spell upgrades. There's quite a bit, so it will be posted in the comments.

Voodoo

Drain: Replace 20 flat damage and healing with a debuff that slowly deals 10 damage per second to the target and restores 5 HP per second to you for 10 seconds. If a target dies - the debuff jumps to the next target. Only one Drain can be applied at a time. (Those 20 damage and healing become rapidly useless on higher tiers of difficulty)

Rescue: Change cooldown to 30s but when it revives an ally the cooldown is doubled. (Otherwise the healing aspect feels useless)

Corruption: Can corrupt any target, but targets immune to mind control are instead debuffed to take more incoming damage. (So it's less useless during boss fights)

Ritual: Massively increase the radius of the circle and make it slowly damage enemies, but allies can only be healed if there are enemies inside the Ritual circle. (So instead of just healing it drains health from enemies and gives it to your allies, like a mass version of Drain, which should make it more engaging and voodoo-ey and less like "Healing Area 2.0")

Electric

Strikes: How about remaking it into a chain lightning bolt? (Making it usable as a ranged option while still keeping AoE functionality)

Portal: Double the cooldown of the portal but allow us to place both in one cast. (Would have the downside of killing the escape cheese but also the upside of possibly being actually usable in normal fights)

• Edit: Zawaito offered a much more versatile alternative in the form of giving Portal a charge mechanic, as in allowing the spell to store two charges that can be used in succession. It would make the spell much more smooth to use and preserve essentially all of its current versatility and usability, although it might also make the thing a tad too powerful.

Boing: Make it create a much stronger explosion at the point of the jump. Something to actually damage enemies near you when you jump away. (If used as a joker - increase the cooldown by 5s. Would have cool flare to it and also synergize with both Thunderstrike and the new Swap I'm about to suggest)

Swap: Change it from swapping places with an enemy to a teleport behind an enemy, with the explosion only occurring at the destination but with it being much stronger. (Would make it work on bosses, would make it more useful in general, would make it a cool anti-marauder tool. You could combo it with the extra explosive Boing to dive in and then explosively dive out)

Thunderstrike: Allow us to hold left click to target a specific enemy which will serve as a point of impact. (Would make it useful against bosses.)

Fire

Surcharge: Targets that are already on fire will repeat the Surcharge cast on themselves, spreading it further and further. 1 target cannot be affected by more than 1 Surcharge. (Give it a wildfire theme that doesn't make it that much more powerful but makes it more flavorful)

Acid

Contagion: Targets that are already covered in acid will repeat the Contagion cast on themselves, spreading it further. 1 target cannot be affected by more than 1 Surcharge. (Coincidentally the same as Surcharge, but emphasizes the contagion theming)

Cactus

Bandito: First cast permanently summons a significantly weaker version of Bandito. Subsequent casts have a lower cooldown and instead of summoning, they make your Bandito burrow into the ground and emerge in your position, damaging the enemies around you (effectively teleports and AoEs the enemies).

Pistolero: Increase cooldown to 50 but allow it to remain indefinitely, and allow its cactus projectile to explode, causing a unique "Cactus Needles" unstackable 2 damage dot on all enemies caught in the blast (would make these a bit more relevant for higher difficulties damage-wise and would make them feel more reliable for entrenchment)

[mint rivet]

i think you typed surcharge in contagion's change by accident.

[glass mantle]

They're meant to both have the same mechanic, seeing as they are essentially the same thing with different elemental flavors.

[signal kiln]

[glass mantle]

Your input has been noted.

[shut tendon]

Personally, I think Rescue is in sufficient place, unless one thinks that it's revive use should have more cool down than heal use.

Rescue is dual purpose revive and "clutch heal".
It is very strong in getting people back in the fight when stillness is disadvantageous; but also great at immediate sustain at range.
However, it's optimal to heal people before they die (about +70HP), as opposed to revive (alive 20HP). Using a charge to revive on command is much preferred than manual; regardless, it is inefficient as a single Rescue charge is heal or revive, before cooldown.
-# even running Rescue + Ritual: Rescue is still both very good at heal and revive; Ritual is great at healing multiple people, difference being over time and restrictive spacing.

I like the suggestion with Boing. While it is a movement not damage focus; it would be neat if the blast radius was larger, maybe a 3 instead of 1 puddle placement as well.

[winged stag]

For strike, i like the 3 dtrikes, and the electric procc hss chain lightning built in

I would love for it to become a card though, as i could throw ut further away and through portals

Plus, how would the portal one even work? You drop one and ut creates anither one 10 meters away?

Also, portal is usable in normal fights

[glass mantle]

I'd make it so you activate the skill, equip the card, then press left click to toss the 2 cards in the chosen direetion.

[glass mantle]

Having to position yourself around these portals and keep track of which one will disappear when you place the new one doesn't sound very usable to me. And if you're gonna mention the escape cheese - then I don't consider it very normal, I think there's a reason boss fights don't let you out.

[winged stag]

I feel it will be just what we have but with extra steps... Would be easier to just give it 2 charges that cool independently

[winged stag]

Nah, I mean 2 portals in the same general area.
Place, enter, the one you came out of is the one that will disappear next

I use 2 portals really far apart when scavenging and this proposed rework would kill the skill for me

Lightning is all about the movement and utility, so it shouldn't sacrifice that for better combat application

[glass mantle]

If they have the same cooldown as now AND cooldown at the same rate I don't think that'll be very balanced. It's actually fewer steps because you can set up a strategic play right away.

[glass mantle]

Not doing that in the middle of a fight with a boss.

[winged stag]

Plus the "escape cheese" could be solved by just removing any portal outside of the boss area. You have to trigger the boss fight intentionally so there would be no rug pull 9n that

On*

[glass mantle]

Strikes are all about combat application. It's about how far the devs want to push a given skill.

[winged stag]

Then increase the cooldown to 15 or even 20, one you cast will be charging while you find a place to place the other

[winged stag]

Well i am and i find it fun, it's all about playstyle

[glass mantle]

Difficulty?

[glass mantle]

An acceptable alternative as far as I'm concerned, though I doubt it's very balanced compared to the rest of the game.

[winged stag]

And the only one that is full combat at that because they know a purely utility skill at the very start is not an attention grabber

[winged stag]

So far very hard, haven't tried nightmare yet

[glass mantle]

Well then they could've used Swap, a utility+combat skill.

[glass mantle]

Nightmare is a lot more hectic, I doubt your method of finding out will prove very practical there.

[glass mantle]

Bottom line here is that every spell school is combat + something else.

[winged stag]

Not very "lightning-ish".
I dumbed it down but a starting spell needs:

To introduce combo mechanics
Be straight forward
Be attractive to the newly initiated

Swap is not great at introducing elemental effects, they'll throw you in the middle of the horde and it doesn't combo with anything

It is really fun to use for what it's worth but not very synergistic

[glass mantle]

Not very "lightning-ish".
I think you're grasping at straws here.

Like I said, every school has some combat in it, lightning isn't all about movement and utility.

[winged stag]

My method is i remember what portal i put when, but i know that's not universal.

I was more so referring to the fact that the portal that disappear is not random nor based on proximity*, and you can find out by throwing one and keeping track from there

[winged stag]

I swear i'm not, swap is electric because it is movement, not because swapping is inherently electric.

If it was Voodoo it would make just as much sense as it deals with messing with ememies

[winged stag]

But i'll let you know once i get there what i think about portals on nightmare solo

[winged stag]

*if it is too close it will override, but that's close enough for it to not make a difference

[glass mantle]

If that's the angle - then Swap doesn't fit into the school overall, not just as a starting skill.

[winged stag]

That all said, i really like your other suggestions! Especially your takes on voodoo magic

It would make them much more of my liking

[glass mantle]

Come to think of it, Boing could've been used, actually, given that it creates an elemental puddle in the retreat area.

[winged stag]

I dont know how i feel abiut boing. It's another case of a spell being there only because it is movement based. Taking from yhe explosion side of it, it would've made more sense with pyro.

The*

Not that it has anything to do with anything, i just cant seem to think of a better alternative strike for the starting skill, even if it is so out of touch with the rest of the school

[glass mantle]

What's funny is we've been arguing for a solid 5-10 minutes over something that we already got a compromise on #1501664983451304026 message (I'll actually add your version to the initial post for visibility because I think it's a useful implementation, even if I'm not sure the devs will consider it balanced).

[winged stag]

Sorry~
I just tend to get lost on the specifics and you do bring really good points which i find fun to debate

[glass mantle]

It's okay, I should've informed you of it myself but I'm a rude bastard and like arguing. :3

[winged stag]

But yeah, having to wait 10 secs for your first cast of a skill to do anything is rather weird, especially consider you can detonate a portal

I usually just chuck it at spawn, go one way, and when needed I throw another one and go the other way from spawn

At times it feels like there's two "me's" one clearing each side of the ma0

Map*

And i rarely use the self destruct function of it cause i'm then left with no portal close to me for 10 secs (which can be a lot especially on higher dificulties)

While i'm at it!
Would it be better if the explosion happened at the exit portal? I'm conflicted about this so i haven't made the suggestion yet

[shut tendon]

Ngl, I briefly messed with portal, purely because it would let me launch myself in the air repeatedly without waiting for cool down... To punch birds

[glass mantle]

Just to confirm, the self destruct, are we talking about the explosion that happens when you replace a portal, or..?

[shut tendon]

Oooh, explosion at the exit is rather amusing; like a remote explosive. Only issue I imagine is (especially solo), is mobs would be drawn away after you use portal, before you can detonate explosion

[glass mantle]

Oh crap, you can detonate it by throwing a portal into a portal. I just discovered that.

[shut tendon]

Does the magic card text not mention that? I cannot recall, I mayhap just saw in video

[glass mantle]

Brilliant idea: Both portals explode. Fitting, glorious, even punishing in a fair manner.

[shut tendon]

All in favor? 👨‍⚖️

[winged stag]

As God and the Devil intended

[winged stag]

The explosion that happens when you throw one portal through another

[winged stag]

Allows for some good synergy with decoyo. Portal, decoyo through portal then portal again

They will be drawn and doubly exploded

[winged stag]

Yes if they let me refund a portal! Cause 20 seconds without a working one is enough to hit me with a heavy withdraw

There's just something primal about being launched in the air repeatedly

[glass mantle]

Nu. Get punished. Choose between maintenance and burst. Be afraid of throwing the wrong card into the wrong hole. BE AFRAID.

[shut tendon]

That's fair

[clear lotus]

bro icl I think rescue & ritual are fine but the corruption idea is soooo peak 😍

[glass mantle]

Didn't notice this at first.

Personally, I think Rescue is in sufficient place, unless one thinks that it's revive use should have more cool down than heal use.
That was the idea, aye. 30s if you just healed a guy, 60s if you revived him.

However, it's optimal to heal people before they die (about +70HP), as opposed to revive (alive 20HP).
Not realistically. When people are not dead they can use a plethora of non-rescue healing methods to top themselves up. When they are dead, however, the dynamic is entirely different (There is also high difficulties and the way they handle damage to consider, but I won't get into that yet). As a result, a mobile revive is usually functionally more important than a mobile heal even despite lower numbers, so Rescue becomes more important to hold onto for clutch-revival and using it for healing might just mean you'll be stuck without it when one of your lads bites the dust.

[shut tendon]

Yeah, you're right on the 2nd part. Im not immense stacked on hours, playing with friends, I've been effectively active medic. Very presumptuous statement on my part. I talked about that before I remembered life steal upgrades, Jokers and utility. Revive is always > heal indeed.