A post about removing/changing the "Deadeye" enemy type

[elder estuary]

they are too present. Should be much rarer to spawn if it's going to be as accurate and high priority to kill. Perhaps reduce the spawn rate by like 300% but increase the damage by 100% to make them more sparse but also more punishing to ignore

[dapper pulsar]

Also can they not track through walls

And sometimes shoot through them as well

[dapper pulsar]

i have killed 63 horseman

and 1.1k deadeye

special enemy?

[elder estuary]

I've killed like 30 and I haven't even encountered a horseman lol

[quasi dome]

The Deadeyes are way too op

[ebon sorrel]

they devs are planning on nerfing them

through spawn rate, los check, and stun time

[ebon sorrel]

horsemen only spawn at the center of danger zones btw

[olive bluff]

I believe they shouldnt have perfect aim at all times, i get theyre supposed to be a threat but currently theyre way too strong if you have more than 2

[ebon sorrel]

the point of them is to counter circle straifing and movment

so they sorta need to be perfectly accurate

[olive bluff]

And if they need to be perfectly accurate they shouldnt spawn 9 at a time.

[ebon sorrel]

yeah I agree

[olive bluff]

Glad we are on the same page

[ebon sorrel]

they need a spawn cap per player or something

but the mechanics of the enemy are mostly fine imo. just some numbers and spawns that need tweaking

[wooden sparrow]

Nothing says fun like being in the middle of a run that's going well, when the three auto aim enemies engage you from different angles and you are punished because you didn't figure out a way to 360 noscope them in the middle of a horde within five seconds.

Working as intended.

[elder estuary]

Ew did someone seriously come in here defending the deadeye? I think I'm gonna puke

[elder estuary]

Genuine glaze or mental 'tarnation place your bets fellers

[ebon sorrel]

I think you just need to play against them more

or just understand game design better

[heavy hound]

I think deadeyes are fine where they’re at too, other than the occasional shot through the wall, and the fact that they continue to charge up a shot while you’re out of los. I’d be happy with something like a los break of 1s canceling their attack.

[elder estuary]

Yea get the fuck outta here with this HD2 glaze talk

[ebon sorrel]

I don't even like hd2, nor how narrowhead has changed the game

[elder estuary]

Bro activated adaptive camo

[ebon sorrel]

im just saying I don't think you understand the deadeyes role is keeping the game fun

[elder estuary]

Just shut the fuck up buddy everyone I've spoken to on this game, some with over 200 hours, agree they're op

Shut the fuck up

[ebon sorrel]

in the playtests where deadeyes didn't exist. you could literally just run away from every enemy and never die

[elder estuary]

So they were a bad solution

[ebon sorrel]

theyre overtuned but their role isn't out of place

[elder estuary]

Simple as that

Not engaging glazers any further I bought this game to get away from all that passive aggressive loser shit

[ebon sorrel]

also the devs are nerfing them anyway

justifibily

[elder estuary]

Why can people still post in my threads when I block them discord blows chunks 😂

[ebon sorrel]

ill leave since you clearly do not want to actually engauge with disscussion

[tardy estuary]

I think people like both of you are a big reason HD2 sucks now.

[olive bluff]

The deadeyes need to be fairly accurate otherwise high movement speed would make them a non threat, the person didnt explain at all, its because if they arent fairly accurate they would be too easy to ignore, they are designed to be a immediate threat, however in doing so when too many spawn its almost a guaranteed game ender, it would be nice if they had a % chance to miss vs perfectly accurate to still make them threatening while punishing you less when targeted by 6 of them, hell they could make it so that if 6 are targeting you that they cant all shoot or have to wait, there are alot of ways to make them balanced but yes to make them a meaningful threat they have to be extremely accurate...however perfectly accurate with their spawn rates and being able to target through walls is too much, i feel like making it so their tracking is weaker would make then a complete non threat and thats why i think a % chance to miss would be alot more impactful without removing the enemy from the battlefield

[olive bluff]

The person who believes that if a game is fun that you arent allowed to have any criticisms and the person who thinks that their opinion is the only valid one are very frustrating to deal with sigh

[worldly flare]

jesus

[quasi pecan]

I think Deadeye need more skill play other than "shoot me before I shoot you"

One I can think of (aka, not-a-game-designer's opinion) is shot warning sound cue and dodge window similar to Darktide's sniper

They will still guarantee to hit you despite your speed, the new way to dodge it is to wait for sound cue and press dash button to 'shake off' the laser.

[worldly flare]

just reduce the spawn rate and make them delay the shot by 0.5s, there is also no reason to be so toxic because someone dare to have other opinion than you op 😭

[tardy estuary]

<@&1427660654273233077>

[tawdry hemlock]

Give me a minute to read over this

[tardy estuary]

No worries

[tawdry hemlock]

@elder estuary, Reminder that this is a public server, people are allowed to comment on your ideas and agree or disagree with them as long as its constructive critique and not slamming down on ideas for no reason. It is not appropraite behaviour to tell someone to "shut the fuck up". The deadeyes are being nerfed with something along with your suggestion

[elder estuary]

I think the deadeyes should be replaced with a different gameplay element entirely tbh

[elder estuary]

I refute glaze wherever I see it, apologies for the offense

[elder estuary]

glazediver @tardy estuary here trying to activate some form of adaptive camo

[tacit forge]

You were told to cut it out.

I suggest you do so.

[tardy estuary]

That is the second time you've written that sentence. Many people have negative things to say about Helldivers not all of us make our outlook a negative personality

[obsidian bone]

Deadeye is truly one of a kind. I never had issues with them during my solo nightmare runs. During (random) teams however... that's another story. I do agree (Deadeye) has its issues, but when I see a complaint about "how many there are (at once, specifically)", normally its because you (or fellow teammates) went through multiple areas without properly clearing them

I can spot them easily, and finish them off before they become a nuisance later on. But yeah, I'm up for some tweaks. Not removing them, cause its one of the few enemies that forces you to change approach against hordes (since this one is mid air and cannot be beaten by simply shooting in a straight line)

[obsidian bone]

Maybe even reset their aim whilst being under the effects of fire/poison/electric. Simple, yet effective. Everyone owns a secondary weapon, or some jokers that apply effects on general weapons

[heavy hound]

I’ve grown fond of the idea of an elemental effect throwing off their aim too, like if they have fire ticks on them, it allows you to dodge, or with enough speed, out maneuver their tracking laser.
Like aim punch would in other games.

[obsidian bone]

I love that idea too, about out maneuvering their laser. Since my set is mostly about movement, that would be kind of cool

[tardy estuary]

<@&1427660654273233077> Got this message from our really mature fellow member:

[obsidian bone]

On the bright side: Moderators will help you
On the other: "hey, you just snitched again >:("

[tardy estuary]

For sure, it's both the reasonable response and the funniest by chance

[obsidian bone]

Don't forget to block him/her if the issue keeps going

[tacit forge]

Making a decision, thank you for the ping.

[tardy estuary]

Thanks a ton

[tacit forge]

Ping me again if something happens please.

[worldly portal]

maybe electricity offsets their accuracy, acid would make them charge shots slower...idk how fire would affect them

[heavy hound]

You hear their screams of agony.

[worldly portal]

electricity would either offset their accuracy slightly or make them hover lower

[olive bluff]

The issue is many times when youre in a group any storm spawns up to 10 of them at a time not just "youre bad for not clearing them sooner"...

[obsidian bone]

Spawns seems to be the issue... But at the same time, aren't people supposed to be coordinated? I do believe there's something in-between. Specialy during Nightmare Mode

[olive bluff]

Yeah but not only is it hard to ping when you have 6 snipers targeting you you also have little to no time to react, its nearly impossible to counter 6 snipers at once especially since the lasers and audio dont work usually for teammates.

Thats also like saying "just have your teammates do it", making a mechanic in a game that requires your teammates to be close to you and hyper aware of specifically snipers is a big ask

[olive bluff]

This shouldnt be a single spawn.

[obsidian bone]

I agree with your take (about fixing something related to that many Deadeyes). But again, if you have this amount of snipers, its because someone triggered them. You can spot them mid air without them chasing you and take them down. Like that one enemy that has three skeletons and a huge... cannon? Whatever that is.

On a side note, you can destroy traps that are laid on the floor to avoid storms to an extent (aim for the bone pile). As for bosses, I can't tell how spawns works since pubs don't make this kind of challenges easy.

To summarize, I do agree Deadeyes needs some kind of balancing. At least a way to dodge them before they shoot. But at the same time, current Deadeye is avoidable (imo) during solo runs. If it's difficult during teams, either some keeps still falls for traps (that also includes visiting multiple areas at once without proper clearance) or don't notice them in the sky before they turn into a horde.

[olive bluff]

No this was immediate as soon as the storm started, no warning, no pre spawns, just snipers manifesting in the air 10 at a time. I recommend spending more time in nightmare mode to familiarize yourself with the spawns.

And storms are also triggered by objectives so almost always you are forced (if not always) to go through at least one

[obsidian bone]

How did that storm start? As for the spawn itself, It works differently if its solo or teams. I already beat solo mode (It took me a lot of attempts, but it was due to a Snake + Kamikaze combination lmao). That's why I'm always visiting these threads. I've never seen these amount of Deadeyes solo. When I visited pubs, thats when reality hit me

[olive bluff]

Stating "must've been because you missed them before" is just a bad take, I have ran about 50 hours of nightmare where we consistently focus the snipers before they become an issue, they become a problem in storms because they spawn so much, I have seen up to 10 spawn on one person quite a few times, there is 0 counter play to that, even if every player reacts fast enough to kill two you still will get hit by two, it genuinely needs looking at and not for some dude to say "it only is because you must've missed some spawns" this is the same thing that's been ruining hd2 for so long, the devs don't need you to defend them and try and say "skill issue" when someone has a genuine complaint.

[olive bluff]

Storm was obj storm specifically nitro storm and within literal seconds of the storm spawning I watched as 10 snipers spawned in the sky around me I killed 4 with shotgun and there was still 6 more.I think you can see like 5 liches in the background

[obsidian bone]

Was it a solo or a team match?

I want to test it out

[olive bluff]

4 man team

4 player team nightmare on the final two maps have 6-10 snipers spawn as soon as a storm starts almost always

Solo has less spawns which makes sense why you'd see them less. But then disregarding peoples experience because you have a different one without even taking the time to read what they're saying is just bad practice.

[past garden]

I really do believe snipers would be solved if they hovered lower to the ground
having to give up visibility for either flying or grounded troops sucks ass

[obsidian bone]

That's why I'm here. I try to understand all takes and being respectful. Every account matters to me

[olive bluff]

I get that but your previous like (4?) times of saying "it must've been because someone missed the enemies" made it sound very clear that you weren't reading anything I was saying.

[obsidian bone]

It is true that I haven't attempted many team (public) runs. Manly because of multiple issues (early storm trigger, the "level 80 - 10 -10 - 13" scenario, joker stealing, etc.). Never organized teams

[olive bluff]

You won't have organized teams that's part of the chaos, it isn't a chaotic fun game if every match is exactly the same and honestly I think you're kinda part of the group that's making the game less fun by saying things like that, who cares if someone takes a care who cares if someone isn't a super high level, the point isn't to always win it's to have fun, a point alot of people mix up nowadays.

I can understand if it's due to toxicity or not liking people

But saying "people are playing the game how they want is why I don't play multiplayer" is uh.... Different from how I think..

[wise juniper]

This. I agree. Legit limiting how many can lock onto a single player at a time would be all that needs to change, if anything. I have legit killed like 6-8 deadeyes in the span of 5 seconds on nightmare that had just spawned in. And then you have 8 of them targeting the last guy alive and it's basically unwinnable. Either the amount allowed to live needs to be reduced or they need to limit how many of them are allowed to take aim at a given target so you only have to contend with 2-3 at a time.

(Also I just realized I pinged brother out of nowhere. If you're reading this cattzer I am sorry)

[obsidian bone]

Now, answering this message directly, Now I can say I see the issue. I don't now how current spawn works (if its 2-3 per player). Then you pointed out events that are related to hordes, such as the Nitro one... That I didn't account for, and that is absolutely true

Normally I tend to leave those events at the very last so I can stack plenty of Jokers... But even still, those events are still nasty for the amount of enemies they tend to drop...

[olive bluff]

It's any storm. In nightmare. Literally any storm. Spawns 6-10 snipers per spawn, and they usually all spawn on one player. I think it's because they share a "medium target" spawn priority, but with lower rates than the shields and bulls, like lower than liches but still a similar spawn rate, the main issue I have with snipers is how many spawn at once, especially since nitro doesnt have specifically higher spawns it just is specifically that screenshot, I have had many times where well storms or trap storms obj storms (besides the side quests I think maybe they have a really low spawn rate idk why) and ending storms will have a lot of snipers spawn at once, idk if it's an rng thing but it happens enough to be a big issue that causes a lot of nightmare runs to end in an un fun and honestly feeling like you got your run stolen kinda way

And nitro isn't an "event" it's a main objective.

[obsidian bone]

I see the issue, but with Nitro specifically, you have to craft 3 bombs I believe (and for that, you have to stay in a designated area for some time, while storms of creatures arrive. Including Deadeye). The area may also change location after crafting one bomb. As for how enemies target, that I always found strange. I always thought enemies spawn within a radius. However is close to their location, becomes the target. Since Deadeye already has a huge vision, that one might work slightly different

But yeah, any storm is the issue

[olive bluff]

I know how it works. And yes it requires you to stay in the area. But that doesn't change enemies spawning on top of you that are able to target you while in spawn animations still, able to shoot sometimes before they have an audio or visual queue as well

[obsidian bone]

So yeah, I agree with your take here. Devs will surely tweak some numbers with this one (spawns and shoot delay, hopefully)

[olive bluff]

Glad we are on the same page

[obsidian bone]

I do want to try an organized team composition tho. Never got the opportunity. A true Nightmare experience with 8 to 10 Deadeye over my head

[olive bluff]

It's fun but ngl I feel the chaos of strangers is more fun, when I run organized with my friends we plow through missions with the only issue being dead eyes, we kill bosses in seconds but deadeyes? They end runs.

[obsidian bone]

I do love chaos, but I also want to beat a Nightmare Mode on teams as well. That's why I do Very Hard and below on teams. My most recurrent situation is a high level (me) and three lvl 10 to 15. They take all jokers, and also trigger every storm. And yeah, I do have 8 to 10 Deadeye at the end on the day, but as soon as I start reviving them, its surely 10 more later on

What's fun is that I rarely die to a Deadeye. It's mostly a mix of snakes and Kamikaze/the one with Claws/Bone Bull