Magic The Gathering

[sudden wren]

my granpa plays 60 card

[solemn topaz]

look you asked me how to not die from milling yourself out

I gvae you a soloution

if you dont like it find a way to skip your draw step!

[sudden wren]

you gave me a solution that ignored the entirety of the rest of the context

[solemn topaz]

...........

[sudden wren]

https://tenor.com/view/limbus-company-yi-sang-heathcliff-fell-bullet-project-moon-gif-11521322160288997961

[solemn topaz]

eh Heathcliff deserves it

Ill be fine though

[sudden wren]

ill deprive you of everything you ever desire

you shall have nothing

[solemn topaz]

I desired Don to be happy. that was already taken from me.

[surreal quail]

for sure though!

[sudden wren]

i get so mad at arena now

i just

hate

i just hate

@solemn topaz
how do you feel when a creature basically says "if I hit you, you lose the game. also I have deathtouch. also, whenever I die, i return to the battlefield with 2 stun counters."

[solemn topaz]

Sounds like good ol mtg to me

[sudden wren]

. . .

[solemn topaz]

Someone hast been one shot on turn 2 by a blight steel colossus, and it shows.

[sudden wren]

-cue AM Hate speech.mp4-

i cannot describe

the HATE i feel

for these slimy ass wincons

i cannot convey how much they frustrate me and make me want to throw a table

[solemn topaz]

[twilit patio]

who is this? reminds me of Glissa Sunslayer, but I'm not sure

[sudden wren]

its unstoppable slasher + bloodletter of aclozotz

[solemn topaz]

Oh hey that’s like the life version of my instamill

[sudden wren]

is it bruvac and terisian mindbreaker?

[solemn topaz]

https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=435209

No it’s fleet swallower and an enchant I can’t remember

[sudden wren]

why do you never

just

[solemn topaz]

Enchant is target player, doubling the mills they take

[sudden wren]

copy paste the card itself

[solemn topaz]

What? No. That would do 3/4ths of their deck

[sudden wren]

or a scryfall link

[solemn topaz]

Oh that

Because

I’m on mobile

And copying card images sucks

[sudden wren]

im getting deja vu

you've used this excuse before
and like i've said before
copying the scryfall link at least shows us the oracle text of the cardf

[solemn topaz]

Just

Click the link

[sudden wren]

i did

but i shouldn't have to when you can just
do this
https://scryfall.com/card/xln/57/fleet-swallower

[solemn topaz]

Found the enchant!

[solemn topaz]

Lmao no.

I do what I want

[sudden wren]

:T

[solemn topaz]

[:

[surreal quail]

i guess enchantments are harder to remove but this card does the same

though you cant lightning bolt this guy

so thats something

something i wanted to share since ive never seen a more satisfying play ever: red ele blast against omniscience that was cast with miracle

[solemn topaz]

Oooh that’s good.

[sudden wren]

i just won a game with my silliest deck

i killed all 3 opponents

me when 10 mana spell is 10 mana spell

[surreal quail]

what card were you casting/playing?

[sudden wren]

https://archidekt.com/decks/8958499/did_that_thing_move

the only sorcery in this deck

[surreal quail]

yikes

[sudden wren]

It's amazing

[sudden wren]

All Will Be One
https://archidekt.com/decks/10247909/the_grand_synthesis

we have intense Artifact Synergy as well as some Proliferate and Poison

just a pinch of the latter though

[surreal quail]

monoblue artifact sounds fun

[solemn topaz]

Wren and Realmbraker have arrived! woot!

[sudden wren]

niice

[solemn topaz]

good news! more cards have arrived. highlights that arent just new staples for the deck.

Undergrowth Recon, both witnesses, Uro, and Hedge Shredder.

unlisted things are basically "naturalize, but its an enchantment"

or "naturalize, but its an evoke creature"

improving what I have with other equivilents

[sudden wren]

fun thought:

I bounce phyrexian atlas to my hand using master transmuter, and replace it with a Darksteel Forge, yes?

[solemn topaz]

hol up lemme check

I mean. yeah

but you could do that with any artifact

ornithopter

etc

thats one hell of a cheat out card

damn

huh only a buck 50

damn

but yes Master Transmuter is an excellent card for snagging out big stuff from your hand and letting your opponents now suddenly deal with a massive problem

DSF is probably one of the best targets given its defensive power

other good chioces would probably be some of the collosuses.

collosi?

Collosus of Akeros, Darksteel Juggernaught, etc.

big artifact stompies

[sudden wren]

:^

[sudden wren]

yes

i chose phyrexian atlas and darksteel forge because those two are in my deck

[solemn topaz]

ah

[sudden wren]

but frankly, if I get encroaching mycosynth out, any card works

[solemn topaz]

no sol ring?

shame.

every deck needs sol rings

[sudden wren]

who needs a sol ring? :]

[solemn topaz]

its literally like 2 bucks a pop right no-.....

DID THEY SERIOUSLY REPRINT IT AS A MYTHIC?

WIZARDS

COME ON

my god

[sudden wren]

its only a mythic as a SL

the most recent printing, DSK Commander, is uncommon

[solemn topaz]

no wait

Im being stupid

I missread a graph

it used mythic icons for set releases, I was reading it as "this was the last printed sol ring"

dont mind me. Im just.... its not been my week

[solemn topaz]

thats a pretty nice ring

anywho point stands

its one of the most affordable mana ramp cards in the entire card game

[sudden wren]

yes

well

depends on what you define as mana ramp

[solemn topaz]

I pay 1 mana, and I instantly get a refund with a bonus

its ramp

its always been ramp

it sticks around

its ramp

anything that increases your output further than 1 land each turn is ramp

[sudden wren]

im not saying sol ring ISNT ramp
i'm saying there are likely cheaper options that dont go mana positive

cause going mana POSITIVE is fast mana, which is a sub-branch of mana ramp

which is a whole debacle i dont feel like getting into cause it gets quite stupid at times

[sudden wren]

but look, cheaper mana ramp

[solemn topaz]

I said one of the cheapest

not

the cheapest

the cheapest form of mana ramp is buying more lands

[sudden wren]

true

in any case, sol ring isnt in the deck because, frankly, i have other things I want to put in there

suppose i could cut aspirants ascent, but then thats 1 less piece for inflicting poison

[solemn topaz]

eh

fair

theres many commander decks that dont run ring for similar reasons

need more combo pieces less ramp

[sudden wren]

mhm

without aspirant ascent, my only pieces for poison affliction are my Infect Flying and Prologue to Phyresis

[solemn topaz]

yeah

[surreal quail]

It would work with tokens too

Crazy ability

[surreal quail]

Yup yyp

[sudden wren]

yup

[surreal quail]

One of the power nine cards that isnt considered that by wotc

[surreal quail]

Imo cultivate and kodama's are kinda eh, 2 mana ramp is a lot better in most cases

Nature's lore, farseek and three visits

[surreal quail]

lands in landfall

[surreal quail]

Except for 3 or more coloured decks

[solemn topaz]

…… origin. Power 9 means something very specific. A set of 9 cards so horrifyingly broken WOTC swore to never print them again.

Power 9 ain’t a buzz word you can dump on any old moderately powerful card.

It has specific meaning

[slate olive]

The Power 9 are explicitly also from early editions, back when "balance" was an afterthought with card effects.

[solemn topaz]

Except time twister. That one actually….. not the worst.

But the other 8 are literally banned in every format except vintage where they are LIMITED

Time twister is still busted

But it’s not the absolute warcrime the other 8 are. It’s just a mild warcrime.

[slate olive]

Time Twister is the one where it's theoretically fine on its own merits, it's just that it becomes arguably worse than the other 8 if added to specific combos.

With said combos only being as bad as they are when Time Twister is a part of them.

[solemn topaz]

You can see the difference in how time twister is the only one fully legal in commander and vintage instead out outright banned and limited

But yeah

Power 9 ain’t a fancy buzz word you can huck around. It’s 9 very specific cards.

Sol Ring is just good fast mana.

The moxes are literally free additional lands.

[slate olive]

Also, IMO, Black Lotus isn't really that broken nowadays. Sure, it's still absurdly strong, but it doesn't really feel "Power 9" levels these days, compared to some of the modern cards that exist.

[surreal quail]

that is fair but isnt the sol ring insanely good and makes a lot decks small bean, especially precon decks

[slate olive]

There's quite a few modern cards that are essentially just "Black Lotus with a tiny caveat".

[solemn topaz]

….. origin.

Most precons INCLUDE SOL RING

[slate olive]

Sol Ring is the crux of a Precon deck working at all, in 99.999999999% of precon decks.

[surreal quail]

kinda fucked no?

[slate olive]

Making a functional Precon deck without Sol Ring requires a ton of hassle with loads of other cards.

[surreal quail]

they push it to be a staple card in precons when an opening hand doesnt always have a sol ring and gets you ahead by a mile

[surreal quail]

how so?

[slate olive]

Sol Ring effectively condenses a bunch of cards into one card, making it easier to play the Precon deck.

[solemn topaz]

You have that the wrong way round. Sol ring was a significant commander staple long before they made precons. Precons are meant to put you on (reasonably) even footing. Including sol ring was an extremely easy way to close that gap because everyone else was going to have it.

It’s easy, cheap, fast mana. It’s been a cheap card for a very long time. I don’t understand your problem with it.

Why do you hate this card?

[surreal quail]

which cards do you have in mind/ what card types?

[solemn topaz]

What makes you consider it so powerful?

[slate olive]

They're probably a Green Player that refuses to play Sol Ring, and thus when encountering it ends up dying because Green without fast mana dies to just about everything because Green wants to get out a big guy, but can't until they have enough mana. :P

[solemn topaz]

Be nice Hero

[slate olive]

Hey, not my fault Green is a one note color.

[solemn topaz]

Big stompy is fun though

I love wurms

[surreal quail]

I don't have a problem with the card, I just think its powerful, and kind of out of place because it makes it so precons specifically can get unnecesarily explosive for how poor they perform a lot of the times. Performance being the direct consequence of most precons being either 2 or more decks squished into one.
For instance if I play a sol ring in a deck that has lets say a 4cmc monocoloured commander I get to play that on turn 2 whereas people without it have to wait another 3 turns. I feel like that doesn't quite fit the casual theme of the format

[surreal quail]

That is a fair point, I don't mean it in a way that it shouldn't be putting people on an even footing.

[surreal quail]

To fix this sol ring issue I propose these cards instead:

[solemn topaz]

Now hold on

Those should be 1 any as well

Otherwise carry on

[slate olive]

Also there should be versions for Black, Red, and White, that are also 1 Any.

[surreal quail]

I don't have the other 2 colours

sadly

So 1 generic and then make it have a print that implies a colour but give it the ability devoid?

[solemn topaz]

hm? no. we're saying it should be 1 coloured mana, 1 any mana

CMC of 2

cause for 1 mana thats obscene

but for 2 mana thats reasonable

[surreal quail]

oooh

x)

[solemn topaz]

[solemn topaz]

finally all my cards are here

the time for the great redeckening SHAL BEGIN

AHAHAHHAHAHA

now for the hard part after the simple upgrades

fitting the other things

pain

[sudden wren]

.>

[solemn topaz]

I have realized my phrasing was poor

https://archidekt.com/decks/10149439/super_awesome_deck_name_2000_what_it_told_me_to_name_it_that

In other news the decks been updated

now with more redundancy, counterspells, and removal

and ramp

mmmm ramp

[slate olive]

Only 1 token?

[solemn topaz]

the website only classfies one card as a token producer

and while its not.... wrong

that one card is more akin to a win con

[slate olive]

Only 1 Discard?

Only 3 Draw?

[solemn topaz]

siiiiggghhhh

Hero

its a muldrotha deck

what the website considers "draw" and what is EFFECTIVELY draw, are two very different things

discard is more of a mini combo piece/cheap big stick

I have 11 cards that self mill me

combined with the 3 draw

thats 14 cards that randomly get cards from my deck, to me

and then I have numerous cycleable tutors

its a muldrotha deck, and Ive designed it to do that job extremely well

[sudden wren]

@solemn topaz :D

[solemn topaz]

you have an addiction

seek help

[sudden wren]

no i don't

i simply crave Compleation

listen

once I get 4 copies of every card in ONE

i will be content

we're already halfway there!

[solemn topaz]

..........

[surreal quail]

mill=draw in graveyard decks lol

[slate olive]

"All will be one (away from a complete collection)". :P

[sudden wren]

XD

im slowly getting there!

to get at least 1 copy of every card, i just need 1 uncommon, 2 rares, and 2 mythics

[slate olive]

I can see in that image that you're completely lacking Commons, though.

[sudden wren]

imagine

4 copies of every common card is so wild

i can play pauper :D

[sudden wren]

which one? 🤔

[solemn topaz]

Suns glory looks more fun to me

and recursion is always a good time

[sudden wren]

oh that was CATHARTIC

40 power Zopandrel

absolutelty BATTED two players out of the park

and the whole time, had Dedede´s Royal Payback playing and it just felt

SO good

like, how do you respond to that?

[solemn topaz]

Casting fog.

[sudden wren]

true

but how many fogs do you have?

[solemn topaz]

Infinite.

I have this cute frog friend who I keep bringing back to life

[sudden wren]

if you have muldrotha out

tsk, a day will come when we get to put that into the test

[solemn topaz]

I don’t even need her. I have Wren and Realm, I’ve got enchantments, I’ve got many backups.

So many backups

[sudden wren]

indeed, it will be a battle for the ages

because i can ensure you simply cant hit me

quintupled P/T every combat is good

[solemn topaz]

……… so you have flying and or reach?

Right?

[sudden wren]

Yes

Zopandrel themselves has innate reach

I also have very decent lifegain

[solemn topaz]

[brittle thorn]

https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uHrI2JdZqUSx2OhRGjZtuA

Any thoughts on this deck?

Remember to enable tags so that it's neatly sorted and all

I used one of those random card sites to select the commander and went along with it

Be warned, it's a bit jank

The main gameplay is to get a ton of food on the battlefield and payoff with some of these

[surreal quail]

otharri is funny, you could also go with this one:

[sudden wren]

true, but mirrodin

[surreal quail]

fair

then by all means otharri

[surreal quail]

since you're mono green you might wanna swap out wose pathfinder for a fyndhorn elves, its essentially a third elvish mystic/llanowar elves

unless you need it for the effect it can get you

other than that it looks like a lot of fun

[sudden wren]

@solemn topaz
so surreal to look at this...

[solemn topaz]

enjoy buddy!

the dopamine rush of a box binge is..... intense

[sudden wren]

yeah

ive done it only once before, with Midnight Hunt

[solemn topaz]

remember to sort first, cause you wont have the energy to do it afterwards.

[sudden wren]

and here i am doing it again, with another favorite set of mine

XD

i dont have the desk space to sort

[solemn topaz]

pffft

alright then

have fun now

pack responsibly

[sudden wren]

gamble responsibly, kids

@solemn topaz
thought: Phyrexian Combat Music sounds like the music you get when you fight the robots in canto 4

[sudden wren]

@solemn topaz box opened and sorted

cards of note

list cards

signed art cards

[solemn topaz]

eyyyy. humgy lad

[sudden wren]

yesm, prossh

[surreal quail]

THRUNNN!!

[surreal quail]

Curious to see what they'll release with the aetherdrift set

iirc 2 commander precons

and then what, vehicles?

[solemn topaz]

Aetherdrift looks real fun to me

So

I hope it’s good

[sudden wren]

Aetherdrift is gonna have a vehicle focus
and the precons are Mummies and Artifacts iirc

[surreal quail]

talking about aetherdrift https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK3X8zCIFKI

[solemn topaz]

I just wanna see what the planeswalker artifact will do

Outside of that I’ll probably attend a pre release and be done with it

[surreal quail]

yeah the planeswalker artifact is very interesting

[solemn topaz]

Good tidings! I went to an AD pre release and got some fun stuff, and had an all around great time!

Bad tidings: the last person I played was a lucky piece of crap child who taunted me after winning through luck. So that soured my mood. (I say luck because he got his win con turn 1 in game 1, and game 2 I literally drew nothing but mana for 6 turns)

But now for the haul! Yippee shiny things!

Earthrumbler was my main win con during the pre release and breaker got played once, only to be instantly bolted.

[surreal quail]

cutest breaker lol

[fleet cargo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/222078231040229376/1338682833257889862/56a932facb6e75d580a7a055eea4a2af.mov?ex=67b0964a&is=67af44ca&hm=b05df4f12f0722a8b95be4734f7aabf4270643f473212800c5f534d3d79b6124&

[solemn topaz]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[sudden wren]

this

this hurts

this hurts so much

[solemn topaz]

I just.... like.... I sincerely hope those are proxies and yet..... and yet Im fairly certain that top card is a real Ulamog foil.......

[sudden wren]

no

no

no

okay

1. thats Ulalek, so the precon commander (cheap)
2. that's my favorite eldrazi commander...i'm going to commit murder...

you do not get to hurt my eldrazi babies without injury

there will be consequences

[solemn topaz]

1. really? huh oh yeah. my mistake.

2. go off. the man hurt magic cards.

[sudden wren]

i need to revisit my vampire deck

im a big fan of Anje and Blood Tokens

[solemn topaz]

neat.

I recently built a bill deck

and then in the first game I used him he got counterspelled twice and I brawled out the rest of the game without him

it worked.... disturbingly well

[sudden wren]

bistly bill?

[solemn topaz]

yeah

bristly bill

+1/+1 lad

[sudden wren]

bisty bill

[solemn topaz]

Yeah

Chill dude

[sand ore]

ok so,
the aetherspark
and you cast hulking metamorph targeting it.
and you cast moritte of the frost targeting the hulking metamorph
you also have enchanted evening on the battlefield.
and you control Ashaya, Soul of the Wild.
then you cast omo, queen of vesuva to put an everything counter on moritte of the frost.
then we equip it with spy kit giving it all names of nonlegendary creatures

you would have a legendary snow artifact enchantment land plainswalker creature - equipment with all creature types and all land types with all the names of nonlegendary creatures

Any suggestions?

[fleet cargo]

So it can meld with itself?

[sudden wren]

No

I'm pretty all the method stuff has weird triggers
Brisela and urza are legendary, hanweir is a land, and in pretty sure Chittering requires graveyard

[fleet cargo]

You know its a good match when you kill your opponent with there own commander though commander damage

[surreal quail]

theft is

definitely a good gameplan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ipl9d5Yw7M&t=1060s&pp=ygUTbWFnaWMgdGhlIGdhdGhlcmluZw%3D%3D opinions so far?

[solemn topaz]

I’m happy to be back in Tarkir

[surreal quail]

it seems to be a great set

like actually cool

[solemn topaz]

They remade Siege Rhino

It’s gonna be so dumb to see that gremlin again

[surreal quail]

ikr XD

[solemn topaz]

I forget if Ive shared this or not but the Tarkir block was when I first started really getting into magic, and so being back only a year or two after my long break is.... poetic in a way?

I find it fun

[surreal quail]

my first precon was the atarka precon

not a lot of tarkir there

aside from the dragons

[sudden wren]

I have decided to become evil
https://archidekt.com/decks/12170064/the_end_of_everything

a PROPER 5c eldrazi tribal deck

[sudden wren]

@solemn topaz
do you know the ravnica guilds?

[solemn topaz]

yes.

the colour pairings

good lads those lot

except Dimir

I hate HATE dimir

stupid colour combo

blue and black. blech.

[sudden wren]

pick one thats missing from here

[sudden wren]

my brother in urza, you play SULTAI

WHICH IS DIMIR, WITH GREEN

[solemn topaz]

Gruul.

[sudden wren]

oh nooooooo

[solemn topaz]

youre missing Gruul

[sudden wren]

naaaoooooooooo

[solemn topaz]

NO. I PLAY GOLGARI AND SPLASH BLUE!

ITS DIFFERENT!

[sudden wren]

NO ITS NOT

YOU DIRTY SULTAI PLAYER

[solemn topaz]

NYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH

I ONLY HAVE 5 COUNTERSPELLS!

ITS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE!

[sudden wren]

IT DOESN'T MATTER

DIRTY, DIRTY SULTAI PLAYER

[solemn topaz]

but in all seriousness I dont like Dimir because well..... uhhh....

I dont know how to build it well

I know how to splash things into green real well

[sudden wren]

that's fair

[solemn topaz]

but

Dimir has always been my failing

[sudden wren]

a friend once told me that Dimir is a deck with the highest skill floor and highest skill ceiling

cause it's the color combo of interaction

[solemn topaz]

the dimir skill floor is..... rock bottom.

but if you can get good wit h it

oh its so nasty

[sudden wren]

then how have you never been able to build fine decks?

[sudden wren]

yup

[solemn topaz]

the play patterns never really clicked. its weird.

its a personal mental block

if I cared to break through it I would

but I havent needed to

[sudden wren]

as someone who has built an Ertai Ressurected control list
it is tedious to play as and against

[solemn topaz]

man you want tedious to play?

hold on lemme find something

[sudden wren]

oh no XD

but i meant that as in you have a good chunk of mental games to keep track of

[solemn topaz]

build a deck with this boi as a commander.

[sudden wren]

no

im not building monoblue burn when I could just play dimir mill

[solemn topaz]

fair

[solemn topaz]

thats mill.

mindskinner is mill

[sudden wren]

mindskinner says "whenever you deal damage, they mill instead"

[solemn topaz]

right yeah

[sudden wren]

this is alt-mill

[solemn topaz]

but that doesnt mean burn

[sudden wren]

this is the cheap target version of mill

[solemn topaz]

it just means "holy crap you moron what are you doing"

[sudden wren]

its not good

alot of people also just play this guy as voltron, which is nasty

[solemn topaz]

anyways the colour pair you are missing is Gruul. have fun building the clan with the catchphrase "smash smash smash"

[sudden wren]

im missing liek
3, my guy

but uuuuugh

gruuuuul...

[solemn topaz]

Azoros, Simic, Gruul, Orzhov.

[sudden wren]

theres a few options for gruul guild commanders I like

[solemn topaz]

I think thats abut it?

[sudden wren]

points at the orzhov syndicate deck in the screenshot

[solemn topaz]

theres your list

[sudden wren]

i know my list

[solemn topaz]

man Ive got a headache

[sudden wren]

my point was getting you to pick one for me to do XD

[solemn topaz]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[sudden wren]

cause im an indecisive fuck

[solemn topaz]

lmao oops

sorry

[sudden wren]

dinglehead

[solemn topaz]

I thought you were asking "what am I missing"

my bad

have fun in green red hell!

actualy wait I have a commander reccomendation

[sudden wren]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[solemn topaz]

my boy.

[sudden wren]

if you reccomend me a non-gruul clan-

gurm

thats not a gruul clan leader

[solemn topaz]

GRUUL IS GREEN RED

YOUR SILLY LIMITATIONS ARE SILLY

[sudden wren]

GRUUL IS THE GREEN RED GUILD ON RAVNICA

[solemn topaz]

NYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH

[sudden wren]

i just have more whimsy then you

[solemn topaz]

THATS A GREEN RED COMMANDER

[solemn topaz]

..... this is likely true

[sudden wren]

BUT THEY AREN'T FROM THE GRUUL CLANS

[solemn topaz]

uhhhh.... hear me out.... counter point.... uhhhhhh...

[sudden wren]

they lack the watermark and they aren't from ravnica

[solemn topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/marcos-bomba-humo-magic-disappear-gif-11061911

[sudden wren]

nice try, but my dimir will find you

[solemn topaz]

I have enough fogs that you will never be able to find me

exile them. I dare you. it wont stop me

[sudden wren]

gurm gurm gurm

your poor soul

[solemn topaz]

dont bring my financial situation into this

[sudden wren]

my power is not in countering your spells
it's in plucking them from your hand at my own choice

[solemn topaz]

oh noooo

you put a spell into my graveyard

horribleeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sudden wren]

who say's they're going there, when i could just steal or exile them?

[solemn topaz]

panik

[sudden wren]

goodbye riftsweeper

goodbye fogs

[solemn topaz]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

MY CHILD

MY BOY

[sudden wren]

the dimir guild has one majority strategy: fuck over your opponent as much as possible

[solemn topaz]

alright well Ive got class now. yay class. nejoy building Gruul.

or dont

suffer

actually yeah suffer.

have fun now

[sudden wren]

XD

[sudden wren]

i think part of why I never liked gruul is because the color combo always reminded me of apple jacks cereal

[solemn topaz]

I getcha

I dont like Gruul because green to me is a slow lumbery colour, but Gruul wants SPEED. HITTY. FAST.

its

conflict

[sudden wren]

@solemn topaz
https://archidekt.com/decks/12583123/the_gruul_clans

[sudden wren]

why do you think red is here?
we have plenty of gruul and red haste-enablers

[solemn topaz]

ehhhhh

[sudden wren]

rhythm of the wild is a big one

every creature you control enters with either a +1/+1 counter or haste

[solemn topaz]

Rythm is fiiiinneeeiiissshhhh

its

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I have a very different style of green that just does not mesh well with the design philosophy of red green cards

some migh;t even call it old school and that its aged poorly

[sudden wren]

sounds right for you

[solemn topaz]

yeah

[surreal quail]

damn ruric thar mentioned

based

[sudden wren]

oh ye, i forgot to share it here

entire guild collection complete
https://archidekt.com/folders/917257

[solemn topaz]

@sudden wren with this land list in Muldrotha whadda you think, Field of the Dead, or Command Beacon? or do you have a third option you can think of.

the third option cant be "get a better mana base"

[sudden wren]

field of the dead is gonna get more use

cause you can play fetchlands or such from your graveyard and get repeatred triggers

[solemn topaz]

fair nuff. thx.

[sudden wren]

mhm

[sudden wren]

dude, i play majority basics

[solemn topaz]

Look I’ve just been told that repeatedly, I was trying to get ahead of it.

[solemn topaz]

https://archidekt.com/decks/10149439/super_awesome_deck_name_2000_what_it_told_me_to_name_it_that

I give you, the newer, and slightly improved, drotha.

now with: Phyrexian reclamation, Woe Strider, and Diversion unit. probably something else I forgot

oh yeah WONDER

the weird birb spirit that just gives things flying

oh and Life from the Loam. cant forget LftL

[sudden wren]

mhm mhm

phyrexian reclamation is good

[solemn topaz]

Im fairly happy with the list but theres always room for improvement of course

its my lil pet project. I take a stab at it every few weeks

[sudden wren]

Cue name joke here
But fair enough, always healthy to have a deck that keeps on par

[solemn topaz]

yeah the thing is every time I bring it out I uhhh....

look lets just say the Muldrotha community might have traumatized some people over the years, and uhhh, well its quite the battle to even remain relevant in game. but thats down to tactics which will improve with time.

[sudden wren]

yup

how much do you think I have to fight with my sultai eldrazi?

[solemn topaz]

I presume similar if not more so, because at least from what I know of my threat assessment, the moment an eldrazi goes down you get obliterated

because as it turns out

nobody likes dealing with eldrazi nonsense

turns out land destruction, even if its incidental, gets people on their hackles

[sudden wren]

here's the way most people perceive eldrazi

[solemn topaz]

the way I perceve it is a self perpetuating system of value built to work within itself.

is that not, in fact, how eldrazi works?

[solemn topaz]

oh please those arent even the biggest threats.

I mean

they are large threats

[sudden wren]

sorry

[solemn topaz]

but

[sudden wren]

did you just tell me that exiling a 5th or half your library is not a big threat?

[solemn topaz]

I meant the biggest threat with eldrazi is the raw synergistic value

[sudden wren]

i need to hear you tell me that again, gurm

[solemn topaz]

I am telling you that the threat with eldrazi decks is not the giant "win more" button, it is the synergy package that gets them there to begin with.

those big 5 you tossed out start to get scary once other non eldrazi decks start cheating them out for free or less.

[sudden wren]

the reason people are scared of eldrazi is because their big beaters are incredibly oppressive and attention-demanding

[sudden wren]

when people hear eldrazi, thats what their thought is
ramp to cheat out

[solemn topaz]

by the time an Emerkul, or an Ulamog comes down, things have ALREADY gone south.

[solemn topaz]

ramping isn't cheating out

those are 2 very different things

[sudden wren]

right, so monolith into monolith into monolith is better than cheating them out

[solemn topaz]

ramping up to 8, to cast a monolith, to then play an Ulamog, is still a LOT of ramp, unless you are taking the game at a snails pace

these cards are threats yes

but I consider them to be the lesser evil compared to the packages that get them there

[sudden wren]

but people don't care about the packages, people care about the big threats that are going to beat their face in, gurm

[solemn topaz]

an eldrazi deck has innate synergy and high payoff, take away the payoff though and theres still a giant synergy package of value and midrange, because as it turns out, eldrazi cards are just generally GOOD.

and a pile of GOOD STUFF, as it turns out, WINS FAIRLY OFTEN.

[solemn topaz]

oh no, peoples threat assessment sucks ass.

who could have ever seen that cominnggggg

[sudden wren]

you say it sucks, but player death is still player death

[solemn topaz]

look me dead in the eyes and tell me that people have good threat assessment for the true dangers in a game of magic.

look me in my cold dead eyes and tell me, that people understand how the dangers of ramp works.

[sudden wren]

people do, that's why people insist on being allowed to play land destruction

or ramp negation

[solemn topaz]

the amount of times people let me play in my little pile of cards and continue to ramp, over and over and over, and then suddenly I hardcast a Shaman of Forgotten Ways and ping everyone to death, is around 5 now, and thats honestly 5 more times than it ever should have worked.

[solemn topaz]

then let them. Ive built my deck to be able to play through it. I presume its coming.

[solemn topaz]

do it. I build to play through that.

resilience. reliability. recursion. these are my 3 principles.

[sudden wren]

you'd fit in well with most of the people in the magic server i'm in

[solemn topaz]

neato.

I think I'd hate them.

but

[sudden wren]

here ye here ye

the game Changers list for the Brackets got an update

https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/commander-brackets-beta-update-april-22-2025

These Cards were added

Trouble in Pairs and Trinisphere have been Removed

specific cards talked about being ON the list but decided to not be put on the list:
Farewell
Alms Collector
Mana Drain
Mystic Remora
Force of Will
Timetwister
Wheel of Fortune
Grave Pact
Dictate of Erebos
Necrodominance
Craterhoof Behemoth
The Great Henge
Green Sun's Zenith
Chord of Calling
Finale of Devastation
Tooth and Nail
Defense of the Heart
Sol Ring

[solemn topaz]

ooooh. shiny.

[solemn topaz]

interesting. interesting.

[sudden wren]

oh yeah, this happened too

you can now win off of being 5c

[solemn topaz]

BRAIDS GOT UNBANNED?!

hoooooh

[sudden wren]

also

ofc, the nessecary sol ring arguement

[solemn topaz]

I mean yeah

Sol Ring is just. embedded in the format now.

[sudden wren]

ye

[solemn topaz]

would we prefer it if it was gone? sure. kinda. vaguely.

but its here now.

[sudden wren]

they gave a little breakdown like this for every card discussed but not added

[solemn topaz]

it comes with your commander deck. its kinda hard to call it a game changer.

[solemn topaz]

handy

[sudden wren]

oh

and every new card added

[solemn topaz]

nice nice

Ill give it a read shortly

currently googling what got unbanned

[sudden wren]

as an example

[solemn topaz]

pan mirror is a chill unban. very cool.

[slate olive]

Notion Thief sounds really fun.

[solemn topaz]

sway of the stars is chill. annoing. but chill.

alright

yeah

good unbans

alright time to read the article now

[sudden wren]

no, bad

this card got put on the GC list for a very good reason >:(

[solemn topaz]

oh thank got Teferi's Prot got added to GC

[sudden wren]

THATS WHAT I SAID BEFORE, GURM

[solemn topaz]

I HAVENT BEEN READING WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SAYING IVE BEEN READING THE ARTICLE

also Seedborn getting GCed.

interesting

fair

but interesting

will my girl Prophet ever escape?

"We are looking at updating the terminology in the future to pull away from preconstructed Commander decks as a benchmark, as we understand that has caused some confusion"

thank god. that was. deeply unhelpful. good on you wizards.

REALLY? THE FIRST GC I HAVE IN DROTHA IS FOTD?

Im just

insulted

that field of the dead is my only played GC rn.

[sudden wren]

huh?

which prophet?

[solemn topaz]

only the most absurd one that will never escape the ban list

[sudden wren]

play more then

oh

yeah no

XD

[solemn topaz]

the others DONT FIT INTO MY DECK

[sudden wren]

that sounds like a skissue

[solemn topaz]

you've literally seen my decklist

the only thing I could consider is MAYBE, MAYBE, some of the GC lands

[solemn topaz]

and maybe some of the obscene tutors

look I could fit in more but they're all stupid expensive

[solemn topaz]

went to a draft of Tarkir yesterday, got absolutely SLAUGHTERED in games, buuuut I had a by and so that means I did in fact get a single prize pack and got gloomlake verge out of it.

along with some other neat cards.

so uhhh, worth it.

yeah turns out

when ALL OF THE REMOVAL gets drafted before you get a chance to grab it

you uhhhh

have a

bad time

[sudden wren]

hold on

gloomlake verge?

[solemn topaz]

yeah

[sudden wren]

was the prize pack a duskmourn pack?

[solemn topaz]

our prize packs were not from tarkir

yeah

we had duskmorn promo packs

[sudden wren]

gotcha-gotcha

sorry, i have

brainworms

[solemn topaz]

nonono its fineeeeee

[sudden wren]

and I instantly knew that land was only ever printed in duskmourn

[solemn topaz]

bah, thats not brainworms. thats dedication.

[sudden wren]

nonono

you wanna see dedication?

gimme a minute

[solemn topaz]

eh sure why not.

[sudden wren]

while waiting, did you get any neat cards out of the draft at least?

or nothing really useful?

[solemn topaz]

uhhhh

lemme think

I got.... yeah Narset.... the indestructible sultai boi (kotis fangkeeper)....

lie in wait....

makin me get up and look at the cards hold please.

[sudden wren]

XD

oh god, kotis

[solemn topaz]

Vet ice climber (love that card)

totally not siege rhino

and a Quarsi remnant I think is all the highlights

so yeah Kotis Fangkeeper I was considering making a nice shiny new commander deck around cause. I like flipping cards and casting things.

also

4 mana indestructible commander. cause Im tired of paying commander tax.

[sudden wren]

THIS is dedication
90% completion so far

[solemn topaz]

HOLY JESUS

you have a problem

[sudden wren]

Duskmourn and Bloomburrow are to follow

[sudden wren]

i have

history with kotis

[solemn topaz]

interesing

which one?

[sudden wren]

not because i've gone against them or used them

but

the one you pulled

indestructible 2/1

[solemn topaz]

ye

alright.

[sudden wren]

my history is getting into an arguement with someone who had one (1) really bad game against kotis

and they instantly were like "this card isn't health for the format" and stuff like that

[solemn topaz]

bro what

I...

[sudden wren]

when me and other people were saying "dude, what are you talking about??"

[solemn topaz]

Kotis is like.

Fair Magic incarnate

[sudden wren]

so like

the persons issue

was that the guy they played against had a REALLY lucky hand, was playing voltron and was also lucky in that nobody had the correct removal (and if they did, kotis player counterspelled it)

[solemn topaz]

so essentially

[sudden wren]

but, you know

[solemn topaz]

dream perfect sceanrio.

[sudden wren]

Kotis is the problem

[solemn topaz]

which. in any deck. is going to cause a runaway hellscape

but no

KOTIS

was the issue

[sudden wren]

yup

[solemn topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/a-certain-scientific-railgun-kuroko-shirai-head-smash-kuroko-shirai-gif-24053134

[sudden wren]

and the guy was like "We can't get any answers cause he keeps exiling the tops of our decks!"

[solemn topaz]

I mean

thats not.... incorrect.... but thats also..... not hte problem

[sudden wren]

hold on

i think

[solemn topaz]

"not anything absurd"

what.

[sudden wren]

they also

stole a bone sabres from a player

[solemn topaz]

the funny thing about Kotis is he keeps the responses around. which is kinda. ludicrious.

[sudden wren]

so they got lucky with that too

[sudden wren]

it's a funny sultai card

i like it

but you have to

you know

build around it

[solemn topaz]

You cast the spells from among the exiled cards while Kotis’s last ability is resolving and still on the stack. You can’t wait to cast them later in the turn. Timing restrictions based on the card’s type are ignored.

oh no wait. nevermind.

[sudden wren]

yeah, you never keep responses

you have to cast in that exact moment

me and everyone else was like "dude, what if they just hit lands and duds?"

[solemn topaz]

as someone who on multiple occations did in fact "just hit lands"/counterspells.

lemme tell you.

you laugh and go "okay now what."

and "now what" is you get your face slammed in

cause you're kinda relying on your opponents deck to have something shiny for you to have. and if it doesnt. it doesnt.

[sudden wren]

yeah

[solemn topaz]

and thats exactly why I wanna build it. cause it would be FUNNY.

[sudden wren]

it is very funny

if I build a sultai themed deck now that we got new sultai cards

[solemn topaz]

also it keeps me in colours I know VERY WELL.

[sudden wren]

id probably build the delve dragon

but I havent looked at the legendaries probably

[solemn topaz]

honestly? real talk?

I dont like the delve dragon.

health is a resource.

I get that health is a resource.

but like

have you LOOKED AT DELVE COSTS?!

[sudden wren]

expensive

its like

the same thing with convoke

they jack up the price for no reason other than to force you to use the gimmick

[solemn topaz]

or wait lemme reread the card real quick

I migth be making a dumb dumb again

okay yeah

so mana value is.... uhhh.....

[sudden wren]

oh

gurm

[solemn topaz]

right yeah so if you cast Gurmag angler......

you smack your face for 7.

[sudden wren]

have you heard about the biggest new deal with the upcoming marvel sets for standard?

[solemn topaz]

Gurmag Angler. the traditional 1 drop from hell of Delve decks.

[solemn topaz]

no because Im pretending the UB sets dont exist.

but sure

whats going on with it

[sudden wren]

so

Online Magic (Arena and MTGO) are not going to have marvel sets

[solemn topaz]

lmao

good

[sudden wren]

they are instead going to have "from the omenpaths" or something like that sets

with different names and different arts

[solemn topaz]

..........

[sudden wren]

but are mechanically identical to the marvel sets

[solemn topaz]

..........................

[sudden wren]

and they will only be available digitally

[solemn topaz]

.........................................................................................................

so wait.

so essentially

[sudden wren]

why?
because WOTC couldn't get the marvel online license

[solemn topaz]

they didn't get the liscense. so instead. they're just making. normal god damned magic cards. that will have identical effects. to the cards plastered in marvel branding.

.........

[sudden wren]

yes

[solemn topaz]

can we trade so that MTGO and Arena get the stupid tony and others and we get the omenpath.

[sudden wren]

nope

[solemn topaz]

god damnit

[sudden wren]

and this is gonna be the case

for any and all

marvel sets

[solemn topaz]

neato

[sudden wren]

and any other franchise they cant get licenses too

[solemn topaz]

this is so dumb

[sudden wren]

i agree

[solemn topaz]

like

okay

this legitimately shows to me at least that they're just steamrolling things with branding and maybe a few changes.

like sure

some stuff is clearly custom made

but lets level here.

RND was making stuff branded or not.

thats what RND does.

I dunno

this just feels

so stupid

and like overplaying their hand

I dunno

bah humbug

as much good as UB has brought in with new players and sales and whatever I just.....

it feels icky

[sudden wren]

heres the big issue someone brought up

these sets are going to be

STANDARD LEGAL

and VERY RELEVANT

[solemn topaz]

they already are. its was already declared that they are.

[sudden wren]

yes

[solemn topaz]

meaning standard players are forced to interact with it

[sudden wren]

but think about being someone who plays online and going to paper, or vice versa

[solemn topaz]

and forced to buy into: THE INCREASED PRICES.

[sudden wren]

you have to know the alternate cards names and arts

you have to memorize 2 sets of names for each card

[solemn topaz]

honestly thats not so bad to me?

like. I guess?

its not brilliant

but eh?

[sudden wren]

this also breaks sites like cockatrice, and deck builders like archidekt

cause you can't copy lists anymore

[solemn topaz]

I mean

deck builder sites will probably just store 2 sets of lists

and just

retitle things

but what I was going to say is one of my biggest worries about UB was lack of reprints

because that would require getting liscenses again and prices yada yada

[sudden wren]

im just

pissy

because

YOU HAVE THE TOOLS TO MAKE IN UNIVERSE SETS AND YOU REFUSE TO USE THEM, WOTC

[solemn topaz]

I am hoping, that someday, we get a "best of omenpath" set, and its just heavy hitters from all the stupid UB sets without the terrible branding.

[sudden wren]

WHY MUST YOU MAKE ME SO ANGRY WITH YOU

[solemn topaz]

yup.

[solemn topaz]

yup

because: money.

[sudden wren]

i dont WANT to have SPIDERMAN and all that in my STANDARD GAMES

[solemn topaz]

neither do I

come join me

play commander

then you can fight spiderman in all your COMMANDER games

stupid eternal format stabbing me in the back for once.

but yeah

UB is..... annoying at best. and..... deeply upsetting at worst.

[sudden wren]

it was cool at first

like with 40k

but now im just

upset

[solemn topaz]

Ive always held that UB is a grimey cash grab.

and while some of them have been neat.... the downsides that I said would come have come.

[slate olive]

It's almost like having a format that lasts forever with no real ban list is a bad thing.

[solemn topaz]

oi. we have a ban list.

hell we have a psudo ban list now.

Ancestral Recall
Balance
Biorhythm
Black Lotus
Chaos Orb
Channel
Dockside Extortionist
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
Falling Star
Fastbond
Flash
Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
Griselbrand
Hullbreacher
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Karakas
Jeweled Lotus
Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Library of Alexandria
Limited Resources
Lutri, the Spellchaser
Mana Crypt
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Nadu, Winged Wisdom
Paradox Engine
Primeval Titan
Prophet of Kruphix
Recurring Nightmare
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Shahrazad
Sundering Titan
Sylvan Primordial
Time Vault
Time Walk
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Trade Secrets
Upheaval
Yawgmoth's Bargain

look at all of our banned cards!

[slate olive]

Yes, but not a proper one that regularly cycles around cards as the meta changes or new sets release.
All it is is the Big names of the permabanned list of the properly ban-cycling formats.

[solemn topaz]

also all of these

[solemn topaz]

we banned Nadu when he came out!

also thats

kinda the point of commander

its a giant sweeping glob of madness and chaos

[slate olive]

Didn't the properly ban-cycling formats do that too, though?

[solemn topaz]

....... yes.

but

they took longer

oh no wait there is one time when we were faster than any other format

and it will continue to be the fastest ban to ever happen

[slate olive]

Seriously, though. A ban list that short where the standout names are "Black Lotus" and "Mox [Gem]", is not a proper ban list. That's just the permaban sublist of a proper ban list.

[solemn topaz]

we banned lutri before it was ever printed!

[solemn topaz]

Golos is an absolute terror and you will put RESPECT on that name!

although

I mean

he might be unbanned at some point.... be put as a GC....

eh whos to say

there is one card that will never be unbanned that isn't power 9, and it will make me sad.

5 mana for "you get effectively 3 extra turns every cycle"

and uhhh

yeah WOTC is never gonna let me have that back

even though she is EXTREMELY boltable

[slate olive]

Seems fairly balanced to me. It only gives Flash to Creatures, not all cards.

[solemn topaz]

I can’t tell if you are meming or being naive.

Given your track record I presume memeing.

[slate olive]

Yes. Memeing.

[solemn topaz]

Okay. Just wanted to double check. Cause I’ve seen some truly wild mtg takes over the years.

[fleet cargo]

https://youtu.be/EsE5VDM4ErA

Seems like a funny deck with no issues what so ever

[sudden wren]

:]

[fleet cargo]

So we're doing a custom magic card set for our game these are my additions to it

I think theyre absolutely hilarious

Im particularly fond of pointless bureaucracy

[fleet cargo]

im not done yet as i need to add a third face to these cards but what else can i add to make them more cursed? the front half is already gona have a morph cost

[sudden wren]

i...

[sudden wren]

the name of the game is SPEED
https://archidekt.com/decks/13926449/gas_gas_gas

[fleet cargo]

But does any of your creatures have Super haste?

[sudden wren]

sadly, no 😔

[fleet cargo]

Unfortunate

[sudden wren]

oh hey, this is a cool art for the car

[fleet cargo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/s/C4UyRzupzM

Very funny

Would play

[sudden wren]

muahahahaha
https://archidekt.com/decks/15171268/a_waltz_of_lightning

@solemn topaz
look, i get to cast spells :D

with just three cards, i can make Black Waltz deal ~30 damage to each player with every prowess trigger

[solemn topaz]

Oh god

[sudden wren]

:]

And
That's just by itself

That's NOT including all of my damage modifiers

[sudden wren]

Do you guys think Magic is a very hard game to get into and enjoy for new players nowadays?

[solemn topaz]

it depends

in what ways does it depend?

depends.

[sudden wren]

:V

the question isnt meant to be super deep

[solemn topaz]

to get someone into magic isn't hard. just show them some cool cards and combos.

to get them to actually understand the game, and have an extended time with the game that is actually enjoyable, so that they can interact with it without bouncing off or getting horribly burned. htat is much more complicated.

I know a good number of people who "got into" or are "getting into" magic because of Universes Beyond.

the thing is I think we all know that they are going to just buy a few cards they like on the secondary market, build maybe a deck, realize magic is a toxic cesspit of bad habits and culture, and leave forever.

so I dunno man

I can convince people to probably play 2-3 games of magic sure.

but getting them to stay after that is really bloody hard.

[sudden wren]

i think that the curent ecosystem of magic makes it really hard to get into, stay, and enjoy

but alot of people i've talked to just say "well they just need to bring better decks" or stuff along those lines

[solemn topaz]

That’s actually just toxic

[sudden wren]

Magic nerds

I require your great counsel

Is Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter a 2 card infinite?

This is genuinely an important question

Even if it seems dull

[rain shuttle]

these 2?

[sudden wren]

Yes

[rain shuttle]

dont think so, cant see how its generating the 2 cost for the scepter effect

[sudden wren]

:(

[rain shuttle]

but i havent played, so im likely to be reading it wrong

[sudden wren]

someone in another server is argueing that "it isnt a 2 card infinite, so im allowed to run it in bracket 2-3 games without telling people"

[solemn topaz]

Well it isn’t.

It’s at minimum a 3 card infinite

The only thing is that’s really toxic and breaks the spirit of the regulation

Also fairly certain scepter is a GC?

Meaning no bracket 2

Either way here’s the thing.

They’re being an asshole and them being technically correct doesn’t change this @sudden wren

[sudden wren]

Yes

[sudden wren]

https://archidekt.com/decks/16195858/the_moons_searing_light