programmers-off-topic

[long verge]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DVd-V9WDMbq/?igsh=MTNpcGRqOGVuczM1bA==

safely_endangered

Stardew Valley turned 10 last week so I made some comics to celebrate!

Likes

7587

Instagram

[hushed raven]

How dare my server, that I've set up, disgruntle me because of the ways I have set it up

it was the usual culpret too, permissions, ew

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by irocendar as #7588 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1478831616146276393)

[thin estuary]

update

[cinder karma]

Shockah do u support fillet

[thin estuary]

it doesn't handle some annoying cases, like filleting just the bottom edges and not the Z ones

arbitrary filleting, on any shapes, would be cool, i guess... but that's waaaay beyond me

[safe dragon]

typst is fantastic I did not realize what I was missing out on

I was tasked with setting up report generation at work to replace some ancient shit from Microsoft Access.
I'd been fucking around with HTML -> PDF converters and pdf generation libraries in C#

Someone recommended me to try typst

god all my problems have been solved

Everything I had tried so far was so unbelievably jank

[hushed raven]

PDFs in general are painful to work with, I try to avoid them like the plague

[safe dragon]

unfortunately often non-negotiable

[hushed raven]

which is a true shame, especially when people who don't know what a PDF was actually made for, "sign this PDF" that's literally not what PDFs were made for, preventing alterations

[safe dragon]

signing pdfs always goes wrong in some way. I don't think I've ever experienced a pdf where it seemed to work right even if I was using acrobat reader itself

typst -> pdf seems to work wonderfully which I mean I suppose it was practically created for that purpose

[hushed raven]

The UK government LOVES PDFs, or at least they used to, given acrobat is one of the very few things that actually somewhat work because proprietary format, it makes it appauling they expect you to pay for acrobat

[safe dragon]

yeah same here

and they often use ridiculous niche parts of the specification

if you're scripting behavior into your pdf forms then maybe it shouldn't be a pdf

but yeah typst? really good first impression

I was expecting LaTeX cause it's often compared with it but nah man

I spent the last 2 days fighting with a bunch of specific little things that had to go right turning html to pdfs

now in like 2 hours in the evening I've solved all of those problems and more that I didn't even want to think about before

[dusty pollen]

pdf is no longer proprietary and hasn't been for years now! adobe opened it a while back

[hushed raven]

wait REALLY?

[safe dragon]

oh yeah forgot to mention that

[dusty pollen]

their tools are still obviously the best though because of the head start

[safe dragon]

brain is gushing about typst not about pdfs

[dusty pollen]

2008!

[hushed raven]

I may try my hand at figuring out PDFs then, I thought I had no chance!

[dusty pollen]

it spent 15 years proprietary though

[hushed raven]

I may still have very little chance but it's more than zero

[safe dragon]

yeah some things will probably never find their way into other pdf software

[rain apex]

Do u guys remember Sumatra pdf viewer

It was peak graphic design is my passion

[safe dragon]

and 30 years from now the government will still make you fill in some crusty ass pdf using those parts of the spec

[devout vault]

then why are most (all?) of the c# line still paid

(I haven’t checked in a few years though I think)

[frosty echo]

What do you mean remember, I use that

[rain apex]

Ah it still lives wonderful

[dusty pollen]

greed? capitalism? the inherent evil of-- wait I'm a mod now

[devout vault]

Of Joja, I assume

[safe dragon]

I looked at so many PDF related libraries and tools these last few days and all of them were less than inspiring

[cinder karma]

The joke about PDF is that it's a portable data format because it's easier than carrying a printer with you

[hushed raven]

but are you compatible with SVE?

[dusty pollen]

no. I'm compatible with nothing

[devout vault]

What baffled me was some paid ones were on nuget, and had basically no features without a license key

[cinder karma]

Anyways, I'm sufficiently pro capitalism that I'm fine with open source projects trying to get that awesome corporate money

[safe dragon]

I'm glad some random person on discord told me to use typst cause I never even considered it cause in my head shit like LaTeX and Typst are for writing an essay not for generating documents

[devout vault]

I didn’t know you could DO paid things on nuget

[cinder karma]

That said Casey last time I just used a python lib

It was free

Obnoxious to install but fine

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7592 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1478878421835710525)

[safe dragon]

for Telerik you had to add a different nuget source that was authenticated based on your telerik account

[cinder karma]

I still use it

[safe dragon]

god I almost considered using Telerik again for work

Telerik Reporting my beloathed

[cinder karma]

Wut

[safe dragon]

I've never used Sumatra I'm afraid

my work seems to use 5 different pdf tools and there's a whole argument that's been going on for like 7 months now about which one we need to all start using

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7593 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1478879232623906938)

[devout vault]

Yall should totally just make a new one for everyone to use. Surely this a well known solution to this sort of problem

[safe dragon]

the real horror here is not that xkcd meme but the sheer concept of trying to make a tool that interacts with pdfs

[supple ether]

Would you rather work with pdf, psd, or doc?

[dusty pollen]

am I being held accountable for my sins or something?

[rain apex]

I think pdf is the lesser evil here

[safe dragon]

no

[hushed raven]

Doc defo

[long verge]

No thanks i'll keep using odt

[hushed raven]

wait is doc the archive with an XML file inside or is that docx?

[safe dragon]

I think pdf is the only one with an open public specification?

[long verge]

that's docx

[hushed raven]

In that case PDF

[long verge]

iirc

[hushed raven]

I remember when docx were starting to become used in school (my school was basically archaic and behind the times so it was a while after their introduction) and I thought it was a virus or something because I had never seen them before

[long verge]

Wait until you learn about excel payload

[lethal walrus]

whats so bad about doc

[hushed raven]

oof so glad I don't use MS office suite anymore XD

[cinder karma]

Atlas i have questions

[hushed raven]

And I may have answers, shoot

[long verge]

I mean you would have to download shady excel document with an even more shady macro executing.
Also excel never execute macro when opening files, they ask you first

[hushed raven]

Oh the one I was reading about uses the CVE-2017-0199 vulnerability and uses a HTTP request, are HTTP requests macros aswell?

[safe dragon]

definitely

[long verge]

i have no idea if you can send http with macros

never touched the MS office's programming language

[safe dragon]

when in doubt the answer is yes

[long verge]

I'm more of a libre office guy

[safe dragon]

vba is absolutely horrendous and the editor is somehow even worse

[cinder karma]

What's with the emoji

[long verge]

[hushed raven]

The rose or the (^-^)/? The rose is from the 10th anniversary thing in #archived-stardew-memories, and the (^-^)/ is just because I was bored and thought it was fun

[steel kraken]

(its a kaomoji not emoji)

[lethal walrus]

every time i remember VBA exists i cant help but forget that i did write a huge VBA file via python once

oh its only 200kb

well, 200kb with 16k lines bc using too many semicolons will break it

[prisma flume]

say what you will. it's an emoticon to me

kaomoji only escaped containment in the last 10 years and it will never supplant bbforum terminology 🌬️

[red crest]

team emoticon

[hushed raven]

I am also team emoticon

[safe dragon]

typst my beloved

way too unreasonably happy about this

[lethal walrus]

... krunner how are you doing this this time

[safe dragon]

presumably those numbers appear in the file contents

idk

[safe dragon]

I think somewhere deep in my soul I'd already given up and accepted that I had to use some janky ass pdf generation solution that I would either hate or would require me to get company approval for some expensive third party tooling

[hushed raven]

it indexs quite a lot of stuff, I've even had it recognise numbers in straight binaries before, which honestly is quite confusing

[safe dragon]

now I have a classic issue that never ends well

got excited about some tech thing just before bedtime

but the very poor sleep I'll get tonight is worth it

I can remove Puppeteer from my work bookmarks

no Telerik Reporting

no PdfSharp, no QuestPDF

it's beautiful

[lethal walrus]

moneroc is a log file, the only use is src/wallet/api/wallet.cpp:1240 daemonBlockChainTargetHeight: daemon error and two hashes 😭

the number 240 isnt even in robin.md ??

i guess its probably searching for 12*20 not 240 tbf

[safe dragon]

yeah

maybe even treating it like regex or a * wildcard

[hushed raven]

Ahh ye it is doing regex

that's kinda annoying that it does it even without a prefix, I wonder if that can be changed?

actually how on earth does 12*0 match the regex for 10

Oh wait no I get it

I was thinking wildcard but its 0 or more 2 characters

regex is still a phenomanally confusing language to me XD

[safe dragon]

ye

regex gets especially funky once you have lookahead assertions

for stuff like "if there's a ( and eventually later in the string there's a ) "

[hushed raven]

Oh I would not like to deal with that XD

most of my regex usage has been in JS which seems to not have look ahead?

[safe dragon]

positive and negative lookahead assertions are some of my favorite ways to make some horrendously slow regex expressions

[safe dragon]

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Regular_expressions/Lookahead_assertion

u wish

[hushed raven]

I have never made a slow regex expression (he said knowingly lying)

[cinder karma]

Nom

[steel kraken]

considering most CVEs in js are because they have DoS attack surfaces due to using a regex somewhere

[hushed raven]

I should probably look at the date of the stuff I'm reading... I would say 15 years ago is certainly not an upto date source XD

[safe dragon]

the very first version ever released of chrome in 2008 already had these

opera has had them since 2000

[hushed raven]

opera being a first? that's a new one to me

[safe dragon]

it's just old

[lethal walrus]

shockingly good support

[safe dragon]

it's very old

so yeah

and rather important to have

there's a lot of regex expressions you simply can't write without them

[steel kraken]

I think the most 'fun' part of regex I think is a C# addition and is balancing groups https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/base-types/grouping-constructs-in-regular-expressions#balancing-group-definitions

[safe dragon]

wtf

[thin estuary]

Woah

Can we parse XML with it now /s

[steel kraken]

considering the example is open brackets and closing brackets, it practically screams that it was implemented for parsing XML

appears to have been added during .NET Framework 3.5 which was the same time as LINQ, and ASP.NET AJAX

[thin estuary]

Do we have the „he comes” quote from StackOverflow added

You can't parse [X]HTML with regex. Because HTML can't be parsed by regex. Regex is not a tool that can be used to correctly parse HTML. As I have answered in HTML-and-regex questions here so many times before, the use of regex will not allow you to consume HTML. Regular expressions are a tool that is insufficiently sophisticated to understand the constructs employed by HTML. HTML is not a regular language and hence cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Regex queries are not equipped to break down HTML into its meaningful parts. so many times but it is not getting to me. Even enhanced irregular regular expressions as used by Perl are not up to the task of parsing HTML. You will never make me crack. HTML is a language of sufficient complexity that it cannot be parsed by regular expressions. Even Jon Skeet cannot parse HTML using regular expressions. Every time you attempt to parse HTML with regular expressions, the unholy child weeps the blood of virgins, and Russian hackers pwn your webapp. Parsing HTML with regex summons tainted souls into the realm of the living. HTML and regex go together like love, marriage, and ritual infanticide. The <center> cannot hold it is too late. The force of regex and HTML together in the same conceptual space will destroy your mind like so much watery putty. If you parse HTML with regex you are giving in to Them and their blasphemous ways which doom us all to inhuman toil for the One whose Name cannot be expressed in the Basic Multilingual Plane, he comes. HTML-plus-regexp will liquify the n​erves of the sentient whilst you observe, your psyche withering in the onslaught of horror. Rege̿̔̉x-based HTML parsers are the cancer that is killing StackOverflow it is too late it is too late we cannot be saved the transgression of a chi͡ld ensures regex will consume all living tissue (except for HTML which it cannot, as previously prophesied) dear lord help us how can anyone survive this scourge using regex to parse HTML has doomed humanity to an eternity of dread torture and security holes using regex as a tool to process HTML establishes a breach between this world and the dread realm of c͒ͪo͛ͫrrupt entities (like SGML entities, but more corrupt) a mere glimpse of the world of reg​ex parsers for HTML will ins​tantly transport a programmer's consciousness into a world of ceaseless screaming, he comes, the pestilent slithy regex-infection wil​l devour your HT​ML parser, application and existence for all time like Visual Basic only worse he comes he comes do not fi​ght he com̡e̶s, ̕h̵i​s un̨ho͞ly radiańcé destro҉ying all enli̍̈́̂̈́ghtenment, HTML tags lea͠ki̧n͘g fr̶ǫm ̡yo​͟ur eye͢s̸ ̛l̕ik͏e liq​uid pain, the song of re̸gular exp​ression parsing will exti​nguish the voices of mor​tal man from the sp​here I can see it can you see ̲͚̖͔̙î̩́t̲͎́̋̀ it is beautiful t​he final snuffing of the lie​s of Man ALL IS LOŚ͖̩̏̈́T ALL I​S LOST the pon̷y he comes he c̶̮omes he comes the ich​or permeates all MY FACE MY FACE ᵒh god no NO NOO̼O​O NΘ stop the an​*̶͑̾̾​̅ͫ͏̙̤g͛͆̾ͫ̑l͖̍ͫͥͨe̠̅s ͎a̧͈͖r̽̾̈́͒͑e n​ot rè̑ͧ̌aͨl̃ͤ͂̾̆ ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ ISͮ̂҉̯͈͕̹̘ TO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚​N̐Y̡ Hͨ͊̽̅̾E̾͛̀ ̶̧ͧ̾ͬCͭ̏ͥͮ͟Oͮ͏̮̪̝M͊̒ͪͩ̚Ȇ̴ͩ͌͝Sͯ̿̔

Have you tried using an XML parser instead?

[hushed raven]

the middle of that was entirely skipped over, are they okay,,,?

[thin estuary]

(I’m aware HTML isn’t exactly XML, it’s looser than that)

[steel kraken]

there was a reason people wanted xhtml to be a thing

[safe dragon]

they're alright

[hushed raven]

(to someone that doesn't know the difference, they look almost identical so it counts)

[steel kraken]

<br> is a self closing tag in html

[safe dragon]

I wonder what the regex based syntax highlighting for html looked like in vim

[steel kraken]

and the famous example of <script src="asdasda" /> is not a self closing tag

[safe dragon]

these days we have stuff like treesitter but regex was the norm

[thin estuary]

Can’t you also like
<b>some words <i>more words</b> that was a surprise</i> wasn’t it

[steel kraken]

any /> in html is just ignored and read as a > anyway because html has no concept of opting into something being self closing, the tag itself is either self closing, or not self closing and you can't tell it to self close in syntax

[safe dragon]

it was a fun revelation that whether something is self closing is actually strictly defined by the html tag and not something you have any say in

[steel kraken]

luckily most html I write these days isn't actually html but jsx which doesn't have these quirks

[safe dragon]

I write svelte which is html I suppose but it's fine

I mean svelte is great

the html part is fine

[steel kraken]

for work projects I'll still use react because company libraries and stuff

for personal projects im all in on solid

[safe dragon]

yeah fair. Most of the company I work for uses react too

I'm a stubborn bitch

I would like to try SolidJS

[steel kraken]

I actually like using the company style library for the most part, and being outside of react means I have to reimplement most of it which is annoying

and while it is possible to bridge between react and solid, I'd rather not

[safe dragon]

I'm kinda in my own little bubble in this company cause I write internal tooling not anything we sell

though some folks higher up have been talking about maybe selling it even though I'm not even remotely done yet

[steel kraken]

I did both internal and end user facing, but even the modern internal stuff has wcag 2.1 AA requirements and its very easy to mess up, so the style library tries to do some of the work for me

[long verge]

Tried it at launch but i found the wiki too blurry, couldn't get the result I wanted so I just gave up (boo me)

[safe dragon]

I also have no idea what other company could possibly want or use this extremely highly specialized piece of software designed around the exact way this company operates

[safe dragon]

the wiki is really good these days as far as I can tell

[long verge]

an​*̶͑̾̾​̅ͫ͏̙̤g͛͆̾ͫ̑l͖̍ͫͥͨe̠̅s ͎a̧͈͖r̽̾̈́͒͑e n​ot rè̑ͧ̌aͨl̃ͤ͂̾̆ ZA̡͊͠͝LGΌ ISͮ̂҉̯͈͕̹̘ TO͇̹̺ͅƝ̴ȳ̳ TH̘Ë͖́̉ ͠P̯͍̭O̚​N̐Y̡ Hͨ͊̽̅̾E̾͛̀ ̶̧ͧ̾ͬCͭ̏ͥͮ͟OͮME̴͌͝Sͯ̿̔

Oh god I hate those characters so much

[safe dragon]

admittedly I haven't used typst for normal things yet cause I'm doing report generation

[lethal walrus]

E̴͌͝
why is this one character according to discord

[prisma flume]

have you heard the good word of our lord ligatures

[lethal walrus]

i can see its four but normally if im deleting text like that it removes each bit individually

[hushed raven]

✨ ligatures✨

[safe dragon]

zalgo text is weird

[hushed raven]

discord tries to avoid breaking ligatures when it can

[long verge]

I should probably take a look at it again, the wiki back then was pretty much :
"Yo those are all the very specifics things typst can do ! Oh you're a looking for a getting started section ? nah go fuck yourself"

[lethal walrus]

i guess that does make sense
'E__________͌__________͝__________̴'

[safe dragon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalgo_text

[hushed raven]

(I don't know for certain but that's what I've been going off based on random testing with my bot)

[long verge]

Mostly used by edgy children that want a "cool" or "terrifying" pseudo

[safe dragon]

yes

[lethal walrus]

'H ̵ ̛ ͕ ̞ ̦ ̰ ̜ ͍ ̰ ̥ ̟ ͆ ̏ ͂ ̌ ͑ ͅ ä ̷ ͔ ̟ ͓ ̬ ̯ ̟ ͍ ̭ ͉ ͈ ̮ ͙ ̣ ̯ ̬ ͚ ̞ ̭ ̍ ̀ ̾ ͠ m ̴ ̡ ̧ ̛ ̝ ̯ ̹ ̗ ̹ ̤ ̲ ̺ ̟ ̥ ̈ ̏ ͊ ̔ ̑ ̍ ͆ ̌ ̀ ̚ ͝ ͝ b ̴ ̢ ̢ ̫ ̝ ̠ ̗ ̼ ̬ ̻ ̮ ̺ ̭ ͔ ̘ ͑ ̆ ̎ ̚ ư ̵ ̧ ̡ ̥ ̙ ̭ ̿ ̈ ̀ ̒ ̐ ̊ ͒ ͑ r ̷ ̡ ̡ ̲ ̼ ̖ ͎ ̫ ̮ ̜ ͇ ̬ ͌ ͘ g ̷ ̹ ͍ ͎ ̬ ͕ ͓ ͕ ̐ ̃ ̈ ́ ̓ ̆ ̚ ͝ ẻ ̵ ̡ ̼ ̬ ̥ ̹ ͇ ̭ ͔ ̯ ̉ ͛ ̈ ́ ̕ r ̸ ̮ ̖ ̻ ̮ ̣ ̗ ͚ ͖ ̝ ̂ ͌ ̾ ̓ ̀ ̿ ̔ ̀ ͋ ̈ ́ ͌ ̈ ́ ̋ ͜ '
that is quite a bit of each of those wow

[safe dragon]

definitely give it a shot. It seems way nicer than LaTeX ever was

[steel kraken]

there was also that one time where ios crashed when receiving an imessage containing it

[hushed raven]

I think androids also crashed with it at somepoint too

or some kinda ligature based weirdness

[safe dragon]

wasn't there a time iOS crashed just from a combination of some emoji

[long verge]

I'll do, when I will have to write maths, which a won't before some months

[prisma flume]

'hey didn't ios crash when ___' is a fun ad-lib game you can play with your friends and colleagues of all ages

[steel kraken]

the android black dot thing wasn't zalgo but RTL/LTR schenanigns with arabic or something and trying to find where it could wordwrap / elipse

[hushed raven]

Ahhh gotcha, the black dot thing is what I was thinking about, didn't know it was RTL/LTR stuff

[safe dragon]

all that work and mixed rtl/ltr rendering is still really bad

[steel kraken]

my memory is hazy though as I haven't watched those decade old tom scott videos in awhile

[safe dragon]

man I'm so fucked

I'm still thinking about typst

my alarm is going off in 5 hours

why does being excited about something have such a major downside...

[cinder karma]

Man

That special?

[safe dragon]

honestly it really is for me

report generation was such a thorn in my side I was dreading

it's been something I knew was coming for over a year now

and everything I'd looked into just looked bad. It was like having to pick which limb of mine someone could beat the shit out of

every option was bad

[cinder karma]

Lok

[safe dragon]

and that with the added pressure that this is a really fundamental important thing to get right with this project

a decision pretty much entirely in my hands

[little furnace]

Will you be working on the project tomorrow?

[safe dragon]

yeah

[little furnace]

Then you should really try to sleep. It sounds important. You need the energy.

[safe dragon]

it's been a long time coming but the core application is effectively complete so report generation could not be ignored any longer

😌 😌

[safe dragon]

I know, I've tried

it's ok there's no actual pressure to deliver anything tomorrow I'm just excited to work on it

[little furnace]

That's good. Still try to get some sleep. Managing to get 8 hours was life-changing for me.
Can we help somehow?

[safe dragon]

sleep do be nice

I'll fall asleep soon ish probably I can feel the tiredness slowly overpowering my brains desire to think through this stuff

thankfully something like this doesn't happen very often 😌

[little furnace]

Yay. Have a good night then. I'll try to go to bed as well now.

[sand frost]

Sometimes it happens to me too, I just can’t sleep for no reason. As long as it’s only every so often it feels ok.

[cinder karma]

Yeah I dont think Europeans online now get to lecture us on sleep

[long verge]

[runic kraken]

just woke up from my impromptu nap where I basically moved the new concepts I learned - arrows to permanent storage and garbage collected the rest of the non important day

I learnt about Control.Arrow in Haskell and the basics in 1 day of playing with them

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/i-need-it-spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-gif-4883506

[pliant snow]

i still dont care for the noir dedede design

[prisma flume]

one-winged penguin

[devout vault]

@cinder karma important question of yours answered re:role priority

[devout vault]

Or general, or because of that specific name with it?

[pliant snow]

just the design

[devout vault]

That’s fair. I think they shouldn’t have || tried to do a misdirect for dedede, which would’ve gave them more freedom with the design ||.

Though || if they had just shown some reason it was based on dedede in particular (unless there was one I have forgotten), that would at least make it make sense more. Right now it’s just “…huh”||

[pliant snow]

Yeah, from what I recall there's no plot reason at all why it's like that lol

[cinder karma]

Nice colors!

Awwww

The fun colors are over

[sand frost]

boo

[safe dragon]

the day of typst is here

[safe dragon]

using the power of typst to make a report that perfectly matches the janky ugly rendering of Microsoft Access

takes effort

[prisma flume]

is typst pronounced typist or typeset

or tipp'st

[safe dragon]

type-st

[prisma flume]

hmmm i don't think that was an option

[cinder karma]

Type-est

Type-set

[pliant snow]

typspspspsps

[devout vault]

How do you get a Crumble's attention?

typst typst typst

...oh aquo made that joke

[safe dragon]

😌

[cinder karma]

How are things, fellow programmers

[uncut seal]

I'm done with my master, I'm going back home soon, but I'm going to have to look for a job now

[lucid sundial]

J*b

Wow! Masters is amazing!! Congrats+!!

[uncut seal]

that's the idea, yeah

[lucid sundial]

With a masters you should be able to get a good job, just needs time and patience

Ubcan work for EA

Kidding lol

[uncut seal]

yup, I'm hopping I can get something close to where my friends are, because I spent 2 years with minimal social interaction

[safe dragon]

ah j*b time

[supple ether]

J*bhunting makes me so evil

[fleet wren]

why are we hunting for jibs

[cinder karma]

No, an AI-focused "Windows 12" is not coming this year — false report gets the facts completely wrong | Windows Central https://share.google/7oKLG0EMhqSaLYftg

[devout vault]

But I want to be outraged!

[pliant snow]

I shall be outraged!

[fleet wren]

some ppl's reaction on reddit is literally "but the fact that it sounds like it could be true is enough for me to keep being outraged"

[frosty echo]

Who knows, the eventual actual thing may be even worse

[supple ether]

This is just the entire internet nowadays

Unless you're on neocities ig

[safe dragon]

how dare you

[cinder karma]

Anyways use linx

[long verge]

Unless you’re Californian

[pliant snow]

All of wikipedia was hit by a worm today

[cinder karma]

🪱

[cinder karma]

Tired: search bar that actually works

Wired: AI agent you can ask questions about the documentation instead

Cadence plz work with me. I'm searching an exact command and the name of an option if your search bar cant do that what is wrong

Plz

Even Nexus search could habdle smth like this

[dusty pollen]

@thin estuary shenzhen io update: the bonus levels are, as always for zachtronicses, a massive jump in difficulty lmao. like SO much harder

[dusty pollen]

time for the ultimate search solution: site:<whatever> <query> in google

[cinder karma]

This is the site that requires you to pay to see the documentation

It's not on google

I would bitch less if it was on google

Iro! What game should i play

Well

I wouldn't bitch less

I would bitch about different things

Atlas!

[hushed raven]

At that point I'd try to index most of the thing with get requests, documentation like that is such a pain

[cinder karma]

How is the spider

[hushed raven]

Atra!

the spider is living! it had a recent failed molt so it's currently healing, but it seems to be healing well at least

and another one shall be entering the picture soon, my friend loves them so much she wants another XD

[thin estuary]

Have you done the first one? I’ve struggled and kinda temporarily gave up

[cinder karma]

Poor darling

Iro u should add this to ur resume

Shockah will u publish your openscad code

Asking for a friend

[devout vault]

Can you download it all at once, and then hook it up to a non-sucky local search indexer?

[cinder karma]

...possibly yeah

[dusty pollen]

shenzhen io!

[dusty pollen]

they're in order I think? they only unlock one at a time. I've done the first 4

the first one is relatively tame, my solution for the second one is borderline illegal

I was stuck on the fourth one for ages but once I did find a solution it was a beauty, the histograms even agree

[cinder karma]

Next time a sale shows up

[dusty pollen]

when I say my solution for the second one is borderline illegal... (not really a spoiler since it's such a small screenshot of the wiring but still)

[hushed raven]

you're making me what to play shezenio again, I'm supposed to be brainstorming

[dusty pollen]

how much of it have you played?

[hushed raven]

barely any, I think first 2 or 3 levels?

[dusty pollen]

it's fun!

[hushed raven]

Oh I've played on hour of it, I most likely only did the first level then XD

[cinder karma]

Iro u should add this to ur resume

[dusty pollen]

and I totally didn't just miss a requirement on this level that makes it a million times more complicated. nope

[dusty pollen]

"skill: can play zachtronics games and nearly even finish them"

[cinder karma]

"Has laid out virtual PCBs in a computer game. "

[hushed raven]

so are you going to the optimal solutions? or just completing them?

[dusty pollen]

just completing

[dusty pollen]

oh this is not really close to real pcbs last call bbs has something closer to electrical engineering but that minigame isn't very fun ngl. but you get N and P silicon and some metal and you basically have to build your own transistors to complete the puzzles

oh I think eventually you get capacitors

[cinder karma]

Last call bbs?

Okay that sounds cool

[hushed raven]

I forgot it had actual datasheats and not ingame docs...

For the best SHENZHEN I/O experience, we highly recommend printing this manual and assembling a binder

I haven't owned a printer in years I don't think...

nor a binder actually

[dusty pollen]

I just have a pdf open tbh

[hushed raven]

atleast the PDF has a search function

[cinder karma]

For accuracy you need to open it on your ipad

And have that next to you

[dusty pollen]

you won't really need a search function

[hushed raven]

it's 47 pages long I will loose my place 3 pages deep XD

[cinder karma]

Or...have three whole screens so one is my datasheet

[hushed raven]

I do have 3 whole screen, one of which is my laptop that can act as a tablet so I have that sorted XD

[dusty pollen]

it's mostly sequential and arranged in small sections

[hushed raven]

Oh I remember where I spent the hour, playing the ingame solitare

[dusty pollen]

a lot of these datasheets could have just been tooltips ngl

[cinder karma]

Realistic iro

[hushed raven]

the realism is certainly needed XD

[cinder karma]

I cant take photo but

There are five different datasheets printed out on my desk st the moment

And a very long specifications

There's in-game solitare???

[hushed raven]

yep!

I'm procrastinating the procrastination from brain storming by playing solitare

[dusty pollen]

almost every zachtronic has a solitaire

though tis-100 doesn't and opus magnum's isn't card-based

[hushed raven]

I am intregued by a cardless solitare, isn't solitare played with cards?

[cinder karma]

What about tiels

Tiles

[hushed raven]

Oh good point I didn't think about tiles

[cinder karma]

That sounds fun❤️

[little furnace]

Not really. Solitaire just means that it's a solo game. Patience is the genre that's exclusively played with cards.

[hushed raven]

Ahh that makes sense given this game is also called solitare in the UK, I didn't even know it was called solitare tbf

[little furnace]

That's peg solitaire. Which I still have no idea how to solve.

Technically, a Rubik's cube is solitaire as well.

[hushed raven]

I think I've managed to solve it once then never again XD

[little furnace]

That's the classic experience with these types of games.

[cinder karma]

Aren't most games solitaire then

[little furnace]

Monopoly isn't.

[prisma flume]

Singleplayer is my favourite game. Multiplayer is my second favourite

i hope they make a third game sometime, currently unknown and impossible

[devout vault]

You're forgetting about Noplayer games, smh

[dusty pollen]

conway's game of life is offended

[devout vault]

No thanks, the IRL game of life is exhausting enough as is

[dusty pollen]

duke just made the old windows startup noise

[cinder karma]

I'll get twenty openclaw instances to play a game

[dusty pollen]

I didn't know it was possible for him to make that noise

[cinder karma]

Casey! How are you

How goes Mozart

[prisma flume]

do you mean the windows 95 noise or the windows xp noise. these are very different

[devout vault]

we need a recording for comparison

[dusty pollen]

I fear it will probably never be repeated

[devout vault]

I sent you a mozart pic 6 hours ago

[prisma flume]

weeeeeooooooouuuuuoooooiiiiiiiiwww

[cinder karma]

That was six hours ago????

[devout vault]

(this is partially why I asked)

[hushed raven]

I'm offended I also didn't get a mozart pic

[devout vault]

(not that I remember the former)

[devout vault]

(and now I'm thinking about the Re:Zero sound effect)

[prisma flume]

i didn't know you played resident evil

[dusty pollen]

hmm. neither of these

uh

[cinder karma]

What is Residential Evil

[devout vault]

Well I’m not gonna share the exclusive Mozart pic, so here’s a new one

[prisma flume]

home owners associations (joke for americans)

[dusty pollen]

oh it was actually just the sound of an old hdd based system booting up I think

[devout vault]

The district that Evil lives in, obviously

[dusty pollen]

like that ramping up sound

[hushed raven]

a game that requires many people (including me) to change their pants

[cinder karma]

Cutieeeeeee!

[devout vault]

never heard of that

heard of?

wrong phrase

tried

[cinder karma]

Mozart is such a smart kitty

Such a smart kitty

[devout vault]

(I'm no longer slowmode immune? @ junimos why do you hate me )

[rain apex]

my coworker (male) said 50smth leon is hot but 20smth leon is too much of a twink

[cinder karma]

In this house we stan Mozart

[prisma flume]

sorry i was thinking windows 98 not 95
https://youtu.be/tajDxBaPBBM

[rain apex]

this is about all i know

[dusty pollen]

didn't we already have this convo casey

[hushed raven]

a perfect leopard print circle

[devout vault]

(My discord vibrated at me! It hasn't done that to me before, especially here!)

[dusty pollen]

oh nope last time you were still slowmode immune

[cinder karma]

Can someone provide pictures of this leon

Otherwise

Leon is a friend's poodle

[prisma flume]

ahhh i missed the windows 2000/me startup sound

smooth jazz to start your day

[hushed raven]

young is first, old is second

that's... unfortunate

[prisma flume]

i can't believe they turned leon s. kennedy into a playstation exclusive adventure game protagonist

[devout vault]

the whole point of the elevated permissions of the role was slowmode immunity (and definitely everywhere and not just for support during 1.6 rush), and now even that has been taken from me

[cinder karma]

He's a Kennedy????

A Kennedy??????

[prisma flume]

no, s. kennedy

[hushed raven]

not a presidential kennedy I think

[fleet wren]

yes, the US president Kennedy

[cinder karma]

Also bluebs where is my million dollars

[devout vault]

I can't even pin messages anymore!

[fleet wren]

damn ppl im trying to lie here

[cinder karma]

Hot for a president

[dusty pollen]

OH that's not us casey, it's the new discord perms

[lethal walrus]

you can.. make channels i guess?

[dusty pollen]

they split those two off

[prisma flume]

hot for the vice president's daughter am i right

[devout vault]

The server is conspiracing against me! What was the entire point of my insane modder to stardewveloper arc?????

[devout vault]

yeah and y'all could've carried it over

[dusty pollen]

(slowmode immune and pin are now their own perms)

[cinder karma]

We appreciate you

[lethal walrus]

delete them too!

[devout vault]

I fail to see why I can ||REDACTED SO IT ALSO ISNT TAKEN FROM ME||, but not even pin a message

[hushed raven]

how does it feel to be close to the mere peons

[prisma flume]

i wouldn't know

[devout vault]

okay wow pillow giving away the secrets

(I mainly meant editing though)

[cinder karma]

We need to get Casey a special role

[devout vault]

(and moving)

[lethal walrus]

can.. bots remove the junimo role?

[cinder karma]

Mozart's best friend?

[prisma flume]

is stardew developer not special enough

[lethal walrus]

i dont want to find out but it is above junimo with manage roles

[devout vault]

436 more levels

[hushed raven]

if bot role is above junimo role, yes

[lethal walrus]

oh well let's not do a second gus

[devout vault]

[lethal walrus]

[prisma flume]

[cinder karma]

Anyways I'm exhausted

[devout vault]

Technically he's my dad's cat

Once I end up moving out eventually I will not be taking him with me

[cinder karma]

He has picked you as his best friend though

Even over fluffy blanke

[devout vault]

When we were growing up I was all four of the cats favorite

[cinder karma]

Clearly you are a cat

[devout vault]

If I took Mozart with me, I couldn't get myself a fluffy black cat because he's a bigot.

(I'm somewhat serious - he loathed Kirby in a sort of bewildered way, but only hated Ginger (fluffy calico) in a more normal way)

[cinder karma]

That's....amusing

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7614 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1479279478692774082)

[pliant snow]

The Junimo role (should) just be cosmetic, it's the Admin role that grants powers

If you are a junimo, and this is not the case, this very much should be the case

[red crest]

It's true, I am not admin and that is why I am completely 100% powerless

[pliant snow]

Apple Boi is just Diet Admin

[cinder karma]

We should get button a custom junimo slitherlegs role

[red crest]

I'm not even slitherlegs anymore

[cinder karma]

Anyways

Computers

Who is planning on getting a steam i forgot the names

[terse galleon]

i'm getting my dad the steam controller whenever it comes out

it was supposed to be his christmas present

[hushed raven]

I would very much like a steam engine, the torque ratio.... wait I've made this joke before!

[sand frost]

One day I want to make a stirling engine

[devout vault]

The modded block game kind, right?

[sand frost]

Nooooo a real one

[lethal walrus]

i read this and forgat that is a real role we have for a second and thought you were talking about https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Moon_Lord_Legs

[cinder karma]

What aboit putt putt boats

[devout vault]

Love the wandering cat reducing my effective monitor height to 720

[thin estuary]

I’ve done that a bit in the earlier levels

[thin estuary]

but also (semi-big spoiler for one puzzle)

and another one for same puzzle

more cursed connections

[thin estuary]

...looking at the last screenshot, i actually no longer know why i did p1 like this

i could have just went above

i might have moved things around

[thin estuary]

sorry, missed it
i'm no longer touching OpenSCAD
unless you mean the C# code i'm doing, then maybeee. not exactly proud of it yet. idk if i'll make it a proper library, too many things to work on. i'm also not sure i want to publicize my actual organizer project, since i'm thinking i could be selling these models, not sure yet
i could share the code with you though

[marble jewel]

Did you ever come across this when you were searching for 3d modeling software? https://github.com/CadQuery/cadquery

I played around with it for a bit before

[devout vault]

but that's python. ew.

[steel kraken]

run it in IronPython and then just consume the library in C# anyway

[devout vault]

no

[rain apex]

Is iron python updated

Last i heard it was 3.4

[steel kraken]

it worked on .net5/6 when I did my snake showcase tech demo

[cinder karma]

There's also kittycad

Which I assume Casey might like until she discovers what language it uses

[devout vault]

I'm not interested in cad at all

[cinder karma]

It's called kitty...cad!

[devout vault]

So what, they could rebrand Rust to be cat-based and I still wouldn't use it, because the language is bleurgh

I might be slightly less of an outright hater though

[rain apex]

No i mean the supported python version

[safe dragon]

slight curiosity I have rn. Do y'all have any idea if writing to sdin or reading from stdout has a performance difference between windows/linux

I've been using a command line tool lately that outputs to stdout which I then read from. I haven't really done benchmarks yet but I just don't really know what kind of performance I should be expecting from stdout

the stdout is like.. byte data of generated pdfs, so it can be a lot

would there be a world where it's faster to have the cli tool write to a file and then read from the file

I'd prefer not to cause then things get messy but it's definitely doable

[devout vault]

I imagine it'd partially depend on what you pipe it into, but I have no clue on the OS overhead difference

I would assume windows is slower, mainly from a "well its windows" perspective, but also because of legacy msdos stuff

[safe dragon]

I'll have to do some proper testing when I'm back at work on monday tbh but it's been on my mind

it was slower than I expected when I last ran it

but I haven't timed the cli tool itself either yet

[devout vault]

Is it piping from that program directly to yours?

[safe dragon]

yeah it's typst. It generates a pdf based on a template and some json data I pass into it and outputs the pdf to stdout

which I read back in

just with a Process in C#

[devout vault]

Hmm

I wonder if any flushes impact that sort of situation

[hushed raven]

honestly read/write files is pretty slow, I would very increadibly suprised if piping is slower than it

thinking about piping being mostly a CPU/RAM speed focused system rather than disk

[devout vault]

So would I, but stranger things have happened

[safe dragon]

honestly from linux I've mostly heard stdout is effectively about as fast as your computer can handle data throughtput in general but for windows I'm not finding such a simple answer

[devout vault]

Though, on linux it just goes through a virtual file anyways right? So I wonder if Windows would treat the two more differently

[safe dragon]

I'll have to benchmark eventually anyway but it's a curiosity

[devout vault]

I'm curious now too

[hushed raven]

if I had a windows system up and running I would certainly give it a go

[safe dragon]

same

my only windows machine is my work laptop though

[hushed raven]

I mean, I could use the actually archaic laptop the did belong to my mum, but that would be a terrible test as it barely even turns on and crashes at the slightest thought of work

[safe dragon]

there might be value to do it via a file in general since you can't actually close the process till you've read out the entire stdout and that could be a lot of memory worst case

and then stream the file to the endpoint output

as it stands I have to copy the entire stream first

I can't imagine that takes a long time at all but it does mean the entire file has to be in memory at once

fun stuff

typst is great btw 9/10

not 10/10 cause I ran into some limitations I had to solve myself (but they gave me every tool I needed to solve it pretty cleanly)

(I needed a table with groupings of rows where it avoids having a page break in the middle of a group, but does still do a page break if it's too large to fit on a single page in general)

[steel kraken]

My understanding is that the speed is dictated by the terminal as it's a synchronous operation

[safe dragon]

alas wtf does that means when you're using C#'s Process

with UseShellExecute = false

cursory searches seem to suggest stdout is probably more than fast enough but we shall see

it might not be throughput that's a problem but latency

lots of stuff to test

[steel kraken]

At least on windows theres been many cases where removing prints made the program orders of magnitude faster

[safe dragon]

yeah though that's generally if you do it in hot loops

even half a millisecond of latency can become catastrophic if it's in a loop

I'd like to think generating an entire pdf is a more performance intense task than writing to stdin and reading out of stdout

on linux there's this fancy io_uring stuff with which you can do asynchronous IO operations

I know .NET 11 is introducing a lot of changes to the networking stack to make use of it for network IO

very promising results apparently

apparently windows has also implemented IoRing which is apparently practically identical in implementation to io_uring

I'm sure they were slightly inspired

useless to me tho cause this program runs on Windows Server 2016

[hushed raven]

Windows is not the OS I would expect anyone to use for a server, used it a long while ago for my dad and it was painful

[safe dragon]

they recently hired someone for the IT department with a linux and docker background so there's a shift slowly happening but this was a fully Windows Server company till recently barring an Oracle Database VM maintained by a third party

[cyan shadow]

Windows server seems to me an unnecessary inconvenience, since it's one of those rare things that can make my mother swear profusely

[safe dragon]

actually my previous job was all Windows Server too

[cyan shadow]

She does not normally do this

[safe dragon]

dude fuck windows server or really IIS specifically

[cyan shadow]

If I hear her cursing it means the universe is off balance

[steel kraken]

the majority of my professional time has been deploying to windows server (indirectly at least)

[hushed raven]

I feel like windows server is the OS people who don't know much about servers go for because "I use windows! it will be the same!"
-# It is never the same

[safe dragon]

and then they have to deal with IIS

no curse worse than that

[steel kraken]

tbh it was quite useful when shit hit the fan in prod and I could just RDP into it and there was a gui and I could look at event viewer, use task manager to make memory dumps etc

[hushed raven]

in the short time I've daily driven linux, I think I've entirely forgoten how to use most of the tools available to windows for debugging, I used to be quite proficient

[safe dragon]

honestly think tbe gui is the real reason anyone uses it

and C# server deployment is extremely easy on IIS

deploying anything else however

nightmare

[steel kraken]

My windows servers were managed by service fabric

[safe dragon]

some of you might remember my journey trying to figure out how to deploy a node server to windows server

[steel kraken]

which had many quirks (its very analogous to kubernetes) but it did a decent job

[safe dragon]

😌

they're setting up kubernetes at work rn

[hushed raven]

does kubernetes do the things docker does (in a general sense) or do they work better as a pair/not at all?

[steel kraken]

in many aspects kubernetes is a layer above docker

[hushed raven]

I get the general concept of them but I'm entirely unfamiliar with the actual workings of kubernetes and only somewhat familiar with docker

[steel kraken]

its less concerned about a single container running, and running a fleet of containers across multiple nodes

[hushed raven]

Ahh okay

[steel kraken]

on each given machine of kubernetes would be running docker or an equivilent for the actual running of containers

[safe dragon]

I have no idea what a helm chart is but I'll be forced to learn eventually

[cyan shadow]

Kubernetes is for containerised deployment of multiple Docker containers, right?

... Box with multiple boxes in it, all chugging away

[hushed raven]

boxception

[cyan shadow]

Yes

[steel kraken]

helm chart is a template system over the top again and some bookkeeping so that you "helm install nginx" and it'll check the version differences, check what is currently in the cluster and only run the templates that have a different state

[safe dragon]

load balancing, spawning more instances if necessary, funky stuff

helm install caddy we ain't nginx anymore

[steel kraken]

nginx is the traditional example

though it seems envoy is the new hot stuff

[hushed raven]

so

helm
└─ Kubernettes
   └─ Docker

?

[steel kraken]

helm is just a way to package up and componentize your kubernetes config

[hushed raven]

Ohh gotcha

[steel kraken]

at 'runtime' helm doesn't exist, its only present when installing / upgrading / uninstalling

[safe dragon]

I do not look forward to dealing with virtual directories and networks in docker when the day comes to move my api

[steel kraken]

tbh I would avoid helm other than to install other peoples workloads, its a lot of added complexity for little benefit for your own stuff

[cyan shadow]

Wonder if my mom uses it at work
Probably not

Helm, that is

[steel kraken]

I have yet to see a helm template that wasn't template syntax soup to the point of being unreadable

[safe dragon]

I know the Systems team at work already uses kubernetes and helm charts

tbh everything I've seen from them feels super overengineered

[cyan shadow]

Exactly why I don't expect my mom to be using helm charts

[safe dragon]

their CICD pipelines have massive yaml files of so many steps too

I'm a simple man. My build pipeline is just build -> test -> publish

they seem to invoke the arcane commandments

it's so long

[cyan shadow]

She do be a strong proponent of "If your replacement needs a manual of instruction left behind to decipher your legacy when you get promoted, it means you're probably a fool and almost certainly a show-off"

[steel kraken]

Its my job in the next few months to build up new automation for the current prod stuff, and a key design goal for me is for it to be simple to understand

[cyan shadow]

(*Neatly organized and commented code not included in the definition of "manual of instruction")

[safe dragon]

reminds me of someone I heard about who worked here previously who was described as "incredibly smart. No one else could even understand the code he wrote" which I didn't quite consider proof honestly

[cyan shadow]

That
Sounds more like a show-off?

[hushed raven]

that's a very good philosophy that I try to follow

[safe dragon]

from what I've heard. More so just a very autistic man who wanted nothing more than to be left alone

[steel kraken]

its a very common mistake to equate complexity to quality, or to think to just layer more complexity on an existing complex thing

[hushed raven]

brings me back to the "if you can't explain it simply, you don't know it well enough" quote

[cyan shadow]

Probably was smart too but - ah
That's honestly better than what I was envisioning

[hushed raven]

Oh that makes a lot more sense

[cyan shadow]

30+ years of work experience will do that to a person, she takes zero crap anymore from people who don't want to make their work easy to parse

[hushed raven]

me earlier changing a lot of stuff to fix a bug when all it actually needed was a single line changing

[safe dragon]

the best PRs are the ones where you removed more code than you added without losing functionality

[cyan shadow]

And I think she had this philosophy hammered into her head during her MCA anyway, they were trying very hard to raise a nrw generation of programmers that didn't necessarily need to invoke the arcane arts all the time

[hushed raven]

always a pleasure looking at those XD

[safe dragon]

my own predecessor here had a clear case of overengineering and it honestly felt incredibly satisfying ripping out a lot of the nonsense. I had a PR that removed like 6000 lines of code while gaining functionality

[steel kraken]

Its definitely an aspect I fully agree with Elon musk about with his 5 step process

1. Question your requirements
2. Delete parts or processes (if you aren't adding things back in 10% of the time you didn't delete enough)
3. Simplify and Optimize
4. Accelerate cycle time
5. Automate

SpaceX can land boosters on drone ships and catch them with chopstick arms because they aggressively try to keep total system / component count low

[safe dragon]

though considering his stuff... maybe they cut a little too aggressively sometimes

[cyan shadow]

Mm

[steel kraken]

the process works better when good engineers are around him doing it, and not yes men

[safe dragon]

don't think you had to remove the door handles smh

[steel kraken]

it works very well in spacex

[hushed raven]

I'm still very confused as to why you're not allowed to talk to someone on speaker phone while driving, but you can have a massive tablet in the middle of your dash

[steel kraken]

when he originally said these 5 steps he did give an example where he personally did all 5 steps in reverse in tesla, and why its important to do them in this order

[hushed raven]

I miss physical buttons and knobs, they're the best

[steel kraken]

One quote that does live with me from it, was the idea of Only accelerate cycle time and automate after doing the prior 3 steps specifically so that you don't dig your own grave faster

[cyan shadow]

The Boi's car still has physical buttons and such because the thing is 30 years old, it's incredible
I get put on music management duty since we still stream to the stereo via bluetooth, but he doesn't have to look at the stereo at all

It also has music controls in the wheel, though I'm unsure if this is an original feature given how old the car is

[hushed raven]

it's possible that they came with them car, I would've been a very brand new top of the line thing at the time though

[cyan shadow]

It's a Merc, it's entirely possible

[hushed raven]

Oh ye that's an almost certainty then, mercs were what I had in mind for cars that had that

[cyan shadow]

It's such a fun little car

Faster than it looks

Goes vroom vroom

And I have all the legroom in the world

[hushed raven]

if it wasn't for how low many mercs are, they would be one of my first choices for vehicle

[cyan shadow]

This one isn't too bad!

[safe dragon]

a mercenary

my only real experience with Mercedes is public transit busses

[hushed raven]

they make busses? I had no idea

[safe dragon]

they do

[cyan shadow]

They also make ambulances

[safe dragon]

https://www.mercedes-benz-bus.com/int/en/models/ecitaro.html

[cyan shadow]

Dutch ambulances are almost all modified Mercedes Sprinters

[hushed raven]

left hand drive, nice!

[cyan shadow]

Oh good they have a sosig variety

[safe dragon]

I see the eCitaro buses quite regularly nowadays

[hushed raven]

that's how I know about them making ambos, entirely from seeing them in the netherlands

[cyan shadow]

Saw a bus the other day with two articulated bits the other day, was a Deluxe edition sosig

[cyan shadow]

Yuss

[hushed raven]

wow that's a rarity! the first time I have ever been on a bendy bus was visiting the Eden Project as a child, it was exceptionally fun XD

[safe dragon]

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_CapaCity

these are absolutely everywhere

[cinder karma]

Do they make jet engines, quill?

[cyan shadow]

Bangalore had tons of sosig buses back in the day, they need to bring them back

[safe dragon]

ah the double sosig

before Utrecht got a tram to campus we had those

[hushed raven]

Ahh I think most of the busses I've been on are Arriva, manufactured by ADL

[cyan shadow]

The only buses that could handle our rush hour capacity requirements without needing to deploy reinforcements

[safe dragon]

arriva here doesn't seem to be quite as dominant as it once was

[cyan shadow]

I saw one in Utrecht when I was there a few days ago, but I also saw one here

Arriva is alive and well in the south

... Unfortunately.

But they don't actually make the buses

They just run them late

[safe dragon]

they were replaced with qbuzz mostly where I live

[cyan shadow]

I think so

[cyan shadow]

The contracts change every now and then

Gelderland seems to use multiple companies? I've seen multiple company buses around, anyway

[safe dragon]

it's Qbuzz, Connexxion, U-OV...

[cyan shadow]

Nijmegen's traffic was the sort of chaotic that one wishes to simply survive rather than observe, anyway

Those roundabouts scare me

[safe dragon]

lmao

never been there

[cyan shadow]

What do you mean they're unmarked

And have traffic lights that jut out into them

[cyan shadow]

Charming city

Very cozy

[safe dragon]

ah the moment a roundabout has traffic lights you've admitted defeat

[hushed raven]

Arriva, to much dismay from the population, been the leading bus company around me for many years, only recently got tap to pay as well, far behind the times

[cinder karma]

Wow

[cyan shadow]

And Kronenburger Park is gorgeous

The Waalkade is very nice in summer but I've never been when the weather was good enough

[safe dragon]

I feel like stuff like tap to pay is pretty much just forced upon bus companies here...

[cinder karma]

Btw in China buses use alipay

[hushed raven]

that 👏 is👏 not👏 a👏 roundabout, even though officially they're classed as such, roundabouts should be clearways and as such should not have lights

[cyan shadow]

... The song made me think it'd be a bit dingy, but apparently it's been redone since Frank Boeijen recorded the song

[cinder karma]

I fucking hate how Beijing busses change fare based on how far you ride

[cyan shadow]

OV go brr

[hushed raven]

is that not the standard?

[cyan shadow]

Is that not normal, atra

[safe dragon]

that's how all public transport in the Netherlands works

[cinder karma]

That's normal for subways and not busses in China

[cyan shadow]

In Bangalore the fare starts at 5 rupees and goes up depending on how many stops you ride

[cinder karma]

Subways you badge in and out

[cyan shadow]

The Netherlands has the same system but more expensive

[cinder karma]

In America, none of that shit matters lol

[cyan shadow]

10 for aircon buses

[cinder karma]

You pay once to get in and that's about it...unless you're DC or San Francisco

[cyan shadow]

5 is for non-aircon

[safe dragon]

in the Netherlands it starts at 5 million euros just to step into the bus

[cinder karma]

It's $3 for a 12 hour bus/subway pass, go nuts on how many you take, for Dallas

[cyan shadow]

No, that's De Lijn's business model

[cinder karma]

(And that is the most expensive rate)

[cyan shadow]

Belgian buses are so fucking expensive

[safe dragon]

I'm glad my employer pays for public transport to work cause I spent over 200 euros in February alone

[cinder karma]

Usually your company will help you buy an annual pass for like.....a few hundred dollars

Jesus!

[cyan shadow]

What do you mean fares start at 2.50

[safe dragon]

I spend 19 euros in public transport every single day I go to the office

[cyan shadow]

The Boi just received his very first NS Business card in the mail

[red crest]

Last time I took a bus I just paid for a single monthly ticket at a flat price

[hushed raven]

don't come to the UK... if you plan on using busses that is

[cyan shadow]

I'm jealous
It allows him to travel first class with all costs covered

[safe dragon]

alas I have to declare my costs and get them refunded instead of a business card

[safe dragon]

wtf

[cyan shadow]

Ah

[hushed raven]

that's amazing I am so jealous

[safe dragon]

I have to be in second class like a peasant

[cyan shadow]

He asked for it since his commute is an hour and a half long and he's 2m tall

[safe dragon]

"then move closer"

[cyan shadow]

Dealing with the Zuidas is 100 times harder if your knees have already given up the ghost

[cyan shadow]

For a werkstudent position????

[safe dragon]

oh

[cinder karma]

Wow

[safe dragon]

I'm surprised they're reimbursing anything

[cyan shadow]

But yeah no he asked for it as a medical necessity on account of not fucking fitting in second class unless he gets a booth seat

[safe dragon]

(the Netherlands is one of the most expensive countries in the world for public transit)

[cinder karma]

I looked and Dallas got rid of thr annual pass for normies

[cyan shadow]

I have a ton of legroom, his knees get squashed against the seat in front of him

[cinder karma]

I think it might still be available as a work perk

[cyan shadow]

Big company

Nice perks

[cinder karma]

I recall it being $350/yr for normies

And usually your company pays half to nearly all

[cyan shadow]

They'll probably try to incentivise high performance since not many Dutch people want to do our line of work

[cinder karma]

Ie, Dad paid like $120/yr

[safe dragon]

the subscription option for unlimited public transit in the Netherlands is 400 euros a month

[cyan shadow]

That's... Rather cheap

[cinder karma]

Crumble my car costs me less per month

[safe dragon]

no one gets that subscription unless their employer does to sweeten the deal to get you through the door

[cyan shadow]

Only people that would spend more than 400 euros a month on train travel get that specific NS flex plan tbh

And if you're doing that you're either someone who gets a share of the costs paid for by their work or you're an international student with no budgeting sense

I don't really travel much so I didn't bother with any pass

[cinder karma]

I legitimately dont understand

[cyan shadow]

Except the free OV fiets one

[cinder karma]

Why isnt public transport...cheaper

[cyan shadow]

But free is free

[cyan shadow]

The buses are cheaper

But also everyone bikes locally, atra

[cinder karma]

Crumble when I said that's more than my car I'm including the price of thr car!

[cyan shadow]

Even people with mobility issues just take their wheelchairs on the bike lanes in my city

[safe dragon]

Just a traject card for gouda to where I work is 181 euros a month and that doesn't even include the metro

[cyan shadow]

The buses never run at full capacity

Not unless a train got cancelled or you have no other options

[dusty pollen]

duke says wooOoOo

[cyan shadow]

Duke is baby

[safe dragon]

tbh the traject vrij NS flex thing would be worth it if I went to the office every day but I work hybrid

[cyan shadow]

Would also explain the wailing noise I hear in the pipes rn

[hushed raven]

unless you're trying to get from one place to another place a mere 5.5 km away near me, inwhich case the train is half the price of a bus XD

[cyan shadow]

... For 5.5 km, I'm taking the bike

I did that a couple days ago, actually

Was a pleasant ride

[hushed raven]

I mean, if you wanna bike on a duel carriageway be my guest, but I can't promise you won't get hit by many many lorries XD

[cyan shadow]

Ah yes

[safe dragon]

in my dreams I move closer to work but then in the real world I see what's available in my price range in that area and it's some of the most notorious bad neighborhoods of the urban area

[cyan shadow]

My friends did bike a couple cities over once tho, the bike lanes apparently run next to the highways (separated by a high barrier) for almost all of it

[cinder karma]

Oh did you see Nintendo is suing for tariff money back

[safe dragon]

(to be fair. I do live in a completely different city than I work in)

[dusty pollen]

I once walked 3h in a river with my friends to the next borough over does that count

[cyan shadow]

(Yeah the Boi works in a different province altogether, that's why his transport is being reimbursed)

It's not 1 and a half hours within the same city

[safe dragon]

yeah usually

[cyan shadow]

in a river?

[safe dragon]

if you're unlucky you're in a bicycle gutter of a provincial road

[dusty pollen]

yes. in a river

[hushed raven]

That's a pretty common thing here, a bit of nature and a bit of exercise

and plenty of soggy clothes

[dusty pollen]

like, waist deep

[dusty pollen]

is it?

[cyan shadow]

That counts as extreme sport at that point

[hushed raven]

at least by me XD

[safe dragon]

that doesn't sound ideal

[dusty pollen]

it isn't common here

(as in in London)

[safe dragon]

is this a thing that happens at all

[cyan shadow]

Was apparently gezellig the whole way

WERE YOU WADING IN THE FUCKING THAMES, IRO

[safe dragon]

ah gezellig. Very versatile word

[rain apex]

bean

[cyan shadow]

... Did you get tested for parasites afterwards?

[dusty pollen]

I know it happened once. I do not know the reasoning for why, I believe it was a whim

[safe dragon]

I sure hope the Thames isn't so shallow it only goes to the waist

[cyan shadow]

Closer to the shore

[dusty pollen]

the Thames isn't THIS bad any more and this was like an offshoot people swim there now

[cyan shadow]

Middle of the river is rather deep

[hushed raven]

under the thames is also pretty much just silt so you'd sink long before you got very for from the shore XD

[cyan shadow]

Look, I cannot imagine it to be fully sewage free even after all this time

[dusty pollen]

I mean I WOULDN'T swim in the thames proper but people do

[cyan shadow]

Well

At least it's not Bellandur lake

[dusty pollen]

no this is a small offshoot of the thames in one of the outer boroughs

[cyan shadow]

Swim in that and I'll be surprised you didn't grow extra arms in the bargain

[safe dragon]

my hometown was across the river from chemical industry. No one swam in that river that's for sure

[cinder karma]

How many dog keks do we have

[cyan shadow]

And legs. And heads.

[safe dragon]

a DuPont factory is not the ideal view while swimming

[cinder karma]

Go.

[hushed raven]

where if this lake? an extra arm sounds very useful

[hushed raven]

okay maybe not that useful...

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7630 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1479630712041767116)

[dusty pollen]

there was a river like that in my birth country. last group of people who fell in didn't make it iirc

[cyan shadow]

Bangalore
You'll die trying Atlas it's not worth it

[cinder karma]

You probably wonr get a second arm

[cyan shadow]

Most polluted lake in the city, and routinely catches fire

[cinder karma]

You'll just get cancer

[dusty pollen]

fire lake!

[cyan shadow]

Fire lake

[safe dragon]

oh ok the river near my hometown is only gonna shorten your lifespan it's not that bad

[cyan shadow]

Although idk if Harlur lake is worse by now

[dusty pollen]

I set fire. to the lake

[cinder karma]

One of these doesn't look quite right

[cyan shadow]

They're connected to each other by the remnants of a dead river so probably equally bad

[hushed raven]

you can thnak sunberry village discord for that one

[safe dragon]

I think my hometown ranked as some of the worst groundwater quality in the entire country at one point

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7631 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1479631158630420591)

[cyan shadow]

(Note: it does not look as cool as it sounds)

[hushed raven]

the only lake not allowed to be swam in in a good wide radius isn't because it's dangerous, but because we drink from it (yes yes medieval this, medieval that, I have heard it plenty )

[cyan shadow]

I mean

A sign of a healthy water body is that you can drink from it

[safe dragon]

though to be fair. Even the worst groundwater quality in the Netherlands is probably still quite incredible to many other places

[cyan shadow]

So that's quite the achievement

[cinder karma]

Not necessarily! Parasites

[cyan shadow]

That too

[dusty pollen]

I think these are all the ones I have

[cyan shadow]

But yeah, clean water etc etc

Fewer factory chemicals
Parasites can be filtered out anyway

[hushed raven]

but often even if heat and filtration can get rid of a lot of living things, theres also a lot of none living things that aren't as easy to get out, a la harmful chemicals produced by them

[cyan shadow]

Ye

[long verge]

The lion doesn't concern himself with having diarrhea

The lion drinks

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by irocendar as #7632 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1479631835880489133)

[hushed raven]

that's why the lake has equivalent security to the literal nearby army base XD

[cyan shadow]

Not enough whimsy

But valid

[cinder karma]

Anyways

[dusty pollen]

oh in my birth country my dad once stalled our car in our drinking water lake

no security

[cyan shadow]

If drinking from lake, you no want coracles on it

[long verge]

Mom! Go get the camera

[cinder karma]

Anyways

Has someone made a water management game

[hushed raven]

boats?

[cyan shadow]

Boats

Coracles are cute
They're round!

[long verge]

Cities Skyline ?

[hushed raven]

depends if you want to drain water, drain simulator is one that's just come out, it's a sim, you clean drains to drain water

[dusty pollen]

did quill just teach atlas about Welsh boats

[hushed raven]

they're Welsh???

[dusty pollen]

originally called cwrwgl apparently

[hushed raven]

I had no idea they existed

thank you quill for teaching me something about my own country XD

[cyan shadow]

THEY'RE WELSH?

..
I thought they were Mangalorean

TIL

[hushed raven]

apaprently there are similar boats in india too

[cyan shadow]

..
That explains why we call them coracles in India

[hushed raven]

There's a coracle society...

[dusty pollen]

I'm glad you guys had the exact "huh?" reaction I had when I looked them up

[safe dragon]

cwrwgl rolls off the tongue quite nicely

[dusty pollen]

w is like ou, right?

[long verge]

Welsh eat vowels at dinner ?

[safe dragon]

idk I ain't Welsh

[long verge]

wrong reply

[hushed raven]

Members are permitted - and encouraged - to make use of this insurance policy for any coracle-related event they are planning or participating in, as long as they are representing the Society.
Hmm, I mean it is a benefit

[safe dragon]

I know much like polish they make a mockery of what letters were intended to represent

[hushed raven]

yep, or more like "Oooo" which Is why I often type Wwww instead

[cyan shadow]

How does one pronounce cwrwgl

Cooorooogl

[dusty pollen]

cooroog'el I'm guessing?

[hushed raven]

Coo like a pigeon, ru like rule, and gl like gull without the u

[long verge]

cwrwgl

[cyan shadow]

... Now I'm wondering why we didn't keep the original pronunciation

We have all of these sounds already in most Indian languages

[dusty pollen]

I think the one you got is the "rest of the UK" one

[hushed raven]

probably because it's a pain to say right, even I'm getting tongue twisted and I can say Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch

[dusty pollen]

coracle seems to be the English version

[cyan shadow]

I think so

[long verge]

mods can someone /tts that

[dusty pollen]

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

[cyan shadow]

... Someone is throwing stuff around upstairs

[dusty pollen]

idk if that worked

[long verge]

It did

[hushed raven]

it did not for me XD

[cyan shadow]

... Am I missing something

[dusty pollen]

it's supposed to be tts

[hushed raven]

Oh wait I don't have a text to speach engine installed, that's probably why

[safe dragon]

at 1 am?

[long verge]

yeah

or maybe u can and did disable it in discord

[cyan shadow]

Student housing tingz
I'm at the Boi's tonight

[cyan shadow]

Same

[dusty pollen]

or maybe it has Welsh person detection and refuses to say that to you

[safe dragon]

ah

[cyan shadow]

I'm on my phone

[cyan shadow]

My upstairs neighbour does work nights, though

But he tries not to throw things

[safe dragon]

they're working their throwing arm

[cyan shadow]

... And if he does I'll bang on the ceiling

[hushed raven]

it would offend me too much (oh I never did add my exaggerated pearl clutch shock emote, damn XD)

[cyan shadow]

I can actually reach it from bed on account of the loft

[dusty pollen]

your loft bed nest sounds so cozy

[cyan shadow]

We interrupt your regular scheduled programming to bring you an Utrecht cat

[long verge]

nice car

[safe dragon]

beautiful

[cyan shadow]

It really is a nest
It's so comfy, I never wanna get out of bed in the morning

[safe dragon]

aren't you glad you're not 2 meters tall then

[stoic gazelle]

I had this channel open while I was focusing on something else and suddenly heard my computer saying Llanfair­pwllgwyngyll­gogery­chwyrn­drobwll­llan­tysilio­gogo­goch in its robot-y voice and... that was something else... if I wasn't awake before...

[cyan shadow]

Was basking in the sun like lizard on warm rock. She was so wonderfully sleepy that she was also happy to receive headpats

[dusty pollen]

when my sister had a loft bed her bottom sheet ripped down the middle and she just tied it in a bit knot and left it like that until I found it

[dusty pollen]

-# sorry not sorry

[cyan shadow]

Watching the Boi try to climb into bed already makes me glad I'm not

He has to sort of drag himself up once his torso clears the ladder

[safe dragon]

😌

[cyan shadow]

It mostly just looks kinda uncomfortable

[hushed raven]

I feel so sorry for him XD

[cyan shadow]

He does his best

[cinder karma]

Wait what is this tts powers

[cyan shadow]

It's a miracle he even agrees to sleep over

[safe dragon]

one of my colleagues is 2 meters tall and it's honestly an odd feeling to have to really look up to look at someone

[cyan shadow]

How tall are you, crumb

[long verge]

I never wanna get out of bed in the morning
Me neither and my bed is not that comfy, i'm just a lazy ass

[safe dragon]

187cm

[cyan shadow]

Lonk

I'd have to look up at you too

[safe dragon]

fairly standard height in the Netherlands really

[cyan shadow]

160cm is quite a bit closer to the ground

[safe dragon]

a little taller than average

[hushed raven]

why is everyone so tall! I feel tiny!

[cyan shadow]

Look
I'm short

[hushed raven]

okay maybe not that tiny...

[stoic gazelle]

also love it when a discord help article is not reflected in the app... https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/208613137-How-can-I-disable-Text-To-Speech

[cyan shadow]

I have a loud voice for someone this smol

[safe dragon]

I have a soft voice

[cinder karma]

(I'm 165cm!)

[cyan shadow]

I need to be loud, no one can fucking see me

[safe dragon]

chihuahuas are often the loudest we ignore the existence of huskies

[cyan shadow]

You need to be alerted to the fact that you need to look down by means other than a swift kick to the shins

[safe dragon]

my colleague who's over 2 meters tall has a girlfriend who's 185 cm tall so that's kinda neat

[cyan shadow]

Ye

GET EM, IRO

[safe dragon]

oh boy more money

[long verge]

Mods someone misbehaving

[safe dragon]

gdi

[dusty pollen]

buy crypto you will

[hushed raven]

Awww I missed the fun scam! there goes my fun for the night

[safe dragon]

always trust Yoda you should

[cyan shadow]

... I'm being sent to the edge of the bed

[red crest]

@ Bouncer crypto spammer ^

[safe dragon]

banished

[cyan shadow]

I might need to do some swift kicking of the shins if this keeps up /s

[long verge]

Me when my dog decides he will sleep in the middle of the bed :

[cyan shadow]

The culprit in this case is human

Who is also snoring, so he's about to be poked

[hushed raven]

👈

[long verge]

My dog snores too don't worry