programmers-off-topic

[pliant snow]

wow you play runescape thru steam

[safe dragon]

I don't, that's why there's no problems

[cinder karma]

Winter Olympics: Ski mountaineering makes no sense ... and it's sort of awesome - Yahoo Sports https://share.google/Zn0MbRvYgvvaylhb0

[devout vault]

Dang, I was gonna get my hopes up for it being prep for frame launch 😔

[cinder karma]

I assume this is gonna be the new channel topic

.qp Steam Frame purchase planned

[supple ether]

I will if I can budget for it

unrelated but this is verrry interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h5251IWv-Y

[cinder karma]

I'm just gonna call it now

[supple ether]

the clickbait thumbnail is dumb but the technical talk is interesting

[cinder karma]

Payroll is going to fuck up and overfund my 401k this year

https://youtu.be/NvjgViPIE4E?si=OseOzMjOYcZgVwK0

[safe dragon]

it's cool stuff

can't wait to still deal with C# devs parroting outdated best practices for many more years into the future

[cinder karma]

So what is a steam frame

[safe dragon]

virtual reality headset

[cinder karma]

Oh

So what is the PC they're making

[dusty pollen]

is it because they’re holding them upside down?

[cinder karma]

No, it's because pcb layout and ic design are two very different beasts

[dusty pollen]

idk they sure look upside down in that thumbnail…

[cinder karma]

Tbh I don't look at thumbnail

(Seriously though it looks AI generated)

Altium is a major PCB layout tool though so

[supple ether]

It's occurring to me now that I might be able to just do this using a CWT host -> handler map wrapped inside an event property, so the event handler becomes dependent on the object hosting it

[cinder karma]

I think the single object manager for a single hookup is easier

[supple ether]

That's more or less what I was doing before

[cinder karma]

Mine was only complex because i wanted thread safety

But i meant for like each event hookup, a manager object

Massive proliferation in objects though

[supple ether]

It works well but it feels like enterprise boilerplate bloat

[devout vault]

I wanna live in modern .net where linq doesn't suck for performance 😔

I ripped out the linq stuff from this thing and it became 10x faster

Possibly 15x

[rain apex]

Is linq any iteratorish thing

Like .Select

[cinder karma]

Linq

Language Integrated Query (LINQ) - C# | Microsoft Learn https://share.google/fhRhhpxiO9IcQGkQI

[red crest]

LINQ is when you type . after an object to look at the autocomplete suggestions, find a method that looks nice and perfect for what you want to do, then press tab to end up with using System.Linq and -X% performance in your file

[cinder karma]

I was using a library for faster linq

And I bet that wont help Casey who is on net framework 4

[safe dragon]

linq my beloved

[cinder karma]

Linq my beloathed

[steel kraken]

modern .net made linq considerably less shit performance but doesn't save casey

[safe dragon]

it's still not rust iterators but it's good

rust iterators compile into arcane magic

though with the de-abstraction C# should be able to optimize further than it used to as well

[devout vault]

(To be fair, that improvement I mentioned wasn't on .net framework - it was on .net 6)

[safe dragon]

I'm already excited for .net 11 because of the async changes

even if it ends up performing identically

[rain apex]

I am always confused by whether u have to use the select looking syntax to count as linq

[devout vault]

I did have to write a pretty standard data structure earlier, because the one I wanted was in .net 6 but not framework

[safe dragon]

please don't use that syntax

just use the regular C# api

[devout vault]

Is it that bad

[rain apex]

Crumble i use the .Select way and then pathos change it to the funky way on merge

[safe dragon]

I think just looks needlessly confusing the moment you do anything beyond the most basic where clause thing

it's also not been allowed at any codebase I've worked at

[devout vault]

I don't use it in long chains

Usually stuff like return data.Select( x => x.SomeProp ).ToArray();

[safe dragon]

yeah that way is fine and preferred

from x in list
where x > 50
select x

this is the syntax I take issue with

it looks nothing like C#, it's also weirdly flipped around to actually look like SQL

and it gets confusing quickly

list.Where(x => x > 50) is just more sensible

[safe dragon]

why

that's kind of a surprise to me

my impression of pathos has been that he does things the very, uh, enterprise-y way

but the way I have generally encountered LINQ is the fluent api syntax not the shoehorned-in sql-esque syntax

[cyan shadow]

swears profusely at my secureboot somehow being on, despite me turning it off at some point

[devout vault]

I think I've used that syntax maybe twice, ever

[devout vault]

Ah, but you see, Pathos is probably dealing with SQL too

[safe dragon]

odd, unless the cmos battery in your motherboard died or something

[cinder karma]

I've been writing sql lately lol

[safe dragon]

it's always been a little odd to me that the microsoft docs' introduction to LINQ uses the funky syntax

[cinder karma]

My life took a weird turn

[safe dragon]

but stephen toub at least used the sensible syntax in his blogposts

[safe dragon]

it's ok you'll get through this

I've written surprisingly little SQL since changing jobs

I used to write a lot of it

[cinder karma]

Tbh, and I hatttteee to admit this

But my previous sql experience was django

Which wildly insulates you from the sql

[cyan shadow]

Doubtful, I'm wondering if I was mistaken about turning it off when I installed Bazzite on an external SSD

[safe dragon]

I'm sorry to hear that

I don't generally view ORMs very favorably

[cinder karma]

Anywyas this is my first time dealing with actually trying to write naked sql (well, with sqlite)

It's small so

[safe dragon]

nakey sql

[rain apex]

Both forms appear so i dun really know either

[safe dragon]

smh they added .Order() quite a while back you don't need to do .OrderBy(x => x) anymore

[rain apex]

Net 6 tho

[safe dragon]

lemme see when they added it

ah

I apologize

missed it by 1 version

I'm sure pathos has some kind of logic when to use which

[cinder karma]

The weird form lets u declare intermediate variable

We need to ask Pathos

Someone please just ask him

[dusty pollen]

(shenzhen io spoiler technically)

@thin estuary

[cinder karma]

Is that set reset latch i see

Iro do u want to be friends on gog

[safe dragon]

tf am I even looking at

[cinder karma]

Looks to me like an fpga

[safe dragon]

I just don't know how one would read this

why are some of the orange lines off center

the second column line

it's not centered

neither is the 4th...

[hushed raven]

I hate that I am now aware of the off centre lines...

I shall eventually get to that level and not be able to concentrate on anything else XD

[cinder karma]

Jesus Christ Crumble

Why do you do this to me

Shockah do YOU want to be Gog friends?

[safe dragon]

sorry

[thin estuary]

Did you get actual sensible use of it

[thin estuary]

I don’t have GOG

[cinder karma]

Is that an SR latch

[cinder karma]

Are u going to get steam frame

[thin estuary]

probably not

[dusty pollen]

I figured out what it does but I don't have a proper use for it yet. I feel like I can go back and heavily optimise some things though iirc

[thin estuary]

from what i've heard it kinda sucks for everything but lines of code

it's a huge energy hog, and costs a lot

[runic kraken]

Does anyone here understand the concept of type theory

It's very interesting, I am implementing System F currently

[dusty pollen]

it costs 5, which is a lot unless it can save you an entire large microcontroller ig though I doubt it could

[thin estuary]

large ones are also 5 though

[dusty pollen]

oh true, you still wouldn't be saving

[cinder karma]

Does it save you lines of code

Tbh it seems really relealistic to me lol

Realistic

What other components do u get

[dusty pollen]

you should play this once your steam embargo is over

uh let me show you one sec

[thin estuary]

There are basic logic gates, there’s that thing, there’s 3 types of micros, and then a weird (de)multiplexer thing

And ROM and RAM

[dusty pollen]

and some peripherals etc but those don't really count

[rain apex]

Atra is playing shenzhen io irl

[cinder karma]

Other than that, do you have an SR latch or d flip flop

[dusty pollen]

(there are also technically a ||random number generator and a calculator but those are restricted to very specific contexts||)

I thought you said what I sent earlier was an sr latch

[thin estuary]

There’s a ||calculator||? Or is that just in sandbox

[cinder karma]

Technically speaking it's just a steam embargo

I have a gog account

[thin estuary]

Rip leaderboards then

[dusty pollen]

just in sandbox, ||there's even a note in the manual saying you can't use it anywhere else lmao||

[cinder karma]

The real question is "is it worth waiting for leaderboards"

[thin estuary]

Why is the embargo a thing

[cinder karma]

What about an adder

Or a half adder

Oh my goddddd

My phone thinks I mean Adderall

[dusty pollen]

waiting for casey to release stardew 3d

[dusty pollen]

is that a specific thing? the microcontrollers have an add instruction if you just mean that

[thin estuary]

The logic gates are generally rarely useful too

[dusty pollen]

I've yet to use one

[cinder karma]

Ah. Hmm

[thin estuary]

They only work on „simple signals”, which are less and less often used in later levels

[dusty pollen]

wait hold on, I have an idea lmao

[thin estuary]

There’s definitely a use for a NOT in an early level or two

[cinder karma]

(Half adder, full adder - Adder (electronics) - Wikipedia https://share.google/jBahvuz7GJL42tW5x )

Can I make a flop with nand gates or is the simulation not smart enough

Do i have analog?

ADC/DAC

Or a clock generator?

Bjts?

[thin estuary]

It’s not real logic

Random Steam guide talks about making a latch, so it’s apparently doable

But it takes a lot of space, much more than the smallest micro

[cinder karma]

Oh

[dusty pollen]

oh you could definitely make a flip flop with nand gates I think

[hushed raven]

I mean, with the basic gates you could make a latch, it would just not the the easiest XD

[cinder karma]

I'm pretty impressed with the accuracy so far

Thanks

[thin estuary]

In the later levels, I’m often more struggling for space than anything else

[cinder karma]

Realistic!

[hushed raven]

space is the limiting factor for all physical logic both in and out of the game it seems XD my need for small form factor is always overshadowed

[cinder karma]

https://youtube.com/shorts/P-2o9VPxJys?si=OUYJCb0r39m6yP6Y

[hushed raven]

I saw him on tiktok, but it didn't include the part about him making his own rig, that's so cool!

[dusty pollen]

hmm. okay I tried making a flip flop and it didn't work

[cinder karma]

Can you do an SR latch

[dusty pollen]

okay now I can't tell what's a flip flop and what's an sr latch

I think I attempted an sr latch

this circuit is showing up for both

[hushed raven]

iirc correctly from the logic stuff I have done previously, a latch changes when the inputs change, but a flip flop only changes on a new clock cycle? I think?

[cinder karma]

That's an SR latch

A d flip flop samples the value on D every rising clock edge

A SR (set reset) latch goes high if S=1, R=0

Low if R=1, S=0

[hushed raven]

Ahh thank you for the correction

[cinder karma]

Holds previous value for S=0, R=0

[red crest]

Some people didn't spend enough time with redstone back in 2011

[cinder karma]

And indeterminate for R=1, S=1

What's redstone

[hushed raven]

I didn't know programming existed in 2011... I don't think I even had MC in 2011 either XD

[cinder karma]

Teensy!

Tiny!

[hushed raven]

I was but a wee child in those days XD

and more of a maths person, which has very much changed XD

[cinder karma]

I alsp didnt have MC in 2011

[little furnace]

I was 9 in 2011. I feel like I was part of the generation that really should have grown up with that game. And yet I have not a single bit of nostalgia for it.

[hushed raven]

Oh hey same age, I absolutely adore the game so much

[cinder karma]

I dont know how old I was in 2011 and don't want to do the math

[hushed raven]

at least 9 and below 80 if I were to guess XD a seventy year period isn't the best guess but oh well

[sand frost]

🐍

[sand frost]

p sure yes, this is a classic thing my dad taught me when i was little

[dusty pollen]

(I meant in shenzhen io haha)

[sand frost]

lmao

art imitates life? 😛

[sand frost]

is this the same guy as on ice perspectives? i watch some of his videos on youtube

[devout vault]

The only reason I'm familiar with many of these words

[devout vault]

Very important information
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/1raae0i/toystory5trailerlol/

[supple ether]

that's illegal

[cinder karma]

One more animal for the animals game

[runic kraken]

whyd they choose mac osx?

also is that python code for an ip packet tracer??

[dusty pollen]

toy story 5, in which buzz and woody launch a DDS attack on someone who made a hate website about them

[dusty pollen]

and no, looks like code for a domain address location checker

[runic kraken]

in my defense its so conmfusing because theres a function which is just pure garbage

def get_ip_address(url):
    try:
        # Extract hostname from URL
        print(f"Resolving server for {url}")
        hostname = url.split("://")[-1].split("/")[0]
    
        print(f"Resolving IP address of {hostname}...")
        ip_address = socket.gethostbyname(hostname)

        print(f"IP address of {hostname}: {ip_address}")
        return ip_address
    
    except socket.gaierror:
        print(f"Could not resolve IP address for {url}")
        return None

def launch_gps_tracker(ip_address):
    try:
        print(f"LAUNCHING GPS TRACKER for {ip_address}")
         result = subprocess.run([traceutils.gps_tracker, ip_address],
                                capture_output=True, text=True, check=True)
        print(result.stdout)
    
    except FileNotFoundError:
        print("Error: gps-tracker program not found.")

what does gps tracking have to do with ip packet tracing or domain name lookup

unless its some skiddy shit

[dusty pollen]

ip addresses are inherently tied to location (not as much as they used to be, but still)

and there's nothing in here about packets

this is grabbing the associated IP address for a host name from DNS records and then running a "gps tracker" on it, which is a slightly nonsensical thing to call it in this context since it wouldn't be using GPS triangulation but GPS has grown to mean just "geographic location" over time tbh

a lot of the "GPS" on our mobile devices is actually wifi network based now ("precise GPS" is what they usually call it) rather than true gps triangulation anyway

[ruby frigate]

hii everyone! i am going to a game jam this weekend as the audio team member, any advice on composing tracks?

[dusty pollen]

@thin estuary this solution was beautiful haha, I'm guessing we have the exact same one (also lmk if you don't want to be pinged about shenzhen io stuff obviously!)

[thin estuary]

nah ping away, i wanna know hah

let me check mine

[dusty pollen]

some of the puzzle names in this game are incredibly ominous, and no, I'm not talking about any of the ||defense|| ones, I'm talking about ||meat based printer||

[thin estuary]

obvious super spoiler since this is the complete solution

[prisma flume]

assembly. the entire game is writing assembly

[thin estuary]

yes and it's glorious

[dusty pollen]

this is one of three games of theirs that's entirely assembly. the other two don't even bother with the circuit

[dusty pollen]

one line difference and it's a trivial one

[thin estuary]

the first line?

[dusty pollen]

||I did tlt acc 400 instead of tgt acc 399||

[thin estuary]

ah yeah

the next one i have... 6 solutions for

[dusty pollen]

all 6 working or 6 attempts?

[thin estuary]

i should really trim out the ones that aren't top in something

6 working

and meat-based printer is the first one i've lost in to one of my friends

[dusty pollen]

in both exapunks and tis100 I very rarely have extra solutions unless they're named "achievement" and aren't actually solutions

have you tried exapunks/tis100/opus magnum?

[thin estuary]

kek

looks like git commits

or Dropbox backups

i've played EXAPUNKS but didn't finish it, somewhere close to the end i think

TIS-100 i've also tried, but only got like halfway through

i've also played SpaceChem ages ago, didn't finish, don't remember how far i was

no other Zachtronics games

[dusty pollen]

I found spacechem meh but I loved exapunks and tis-100

opus magnum is obviously pretty different but not as much as you may expect

[thin estuary]

i wonder if the pollution-sensing window could be done with a small micro...

histograms say yes

or, at least, some cheaper components

i've found some tricks here and there i could use to limit pin usage

which really shows in my smart grid control router solution lol

although that one still needed a big micro

damn you dat register

[dusty pollen]

would have to be no components since histograms say 5yuan

every time I think I find a use for that new part it's xbus instead of simple 😭

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7392 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1474717005872500877)

[cinder karma]

Iro does that game have a fan made puzzle library

[dusty pollen]

yup

and they're written in lua

[cinder karma]

Yay library! Boo lua

[dusty pollen]

only one of the games has an in-game editor iirc but most have a way to create your own puzzles

[supple ether]

I miss the days of flash when level editors were the norm

[devout vault]

One of my first game maker games was basically a platformer with nothing but a level editor

The level editor era was great 😔

Even a few neopets games had level editors

[dusty pollen]

my first and only game maker game got me to be the youngest in the finals of a national game dev for kids competition

(it was really bad. I dug up a copy a few months back)

(the text is lost to time because I can't find a version of game maker that supports hebrew so I replaced it with english text, the graphics were hand drawn using a mouse in the original ms paint, and the backing track is fireflies by owl city)

[devout vault]

Didn't game maker have a built in art editor

I don't think I have a copy of most of my game maker games. The only I have is my 39dll test

Multiple rooms in the world, chat, powerups.

And somehow has seconds of latency even on localhost

[cobalt shore]

I think it still does have built in art editor it’s pretty nice (I just use godot tho)

[dusty pollen]

I think last time we spoke about it we realised I used the version before yours or something casey?

[devout vault]

Ah

I used 7

Maybe 6 for a brief while, technically? But I don't remember

[dusty pollen]

oh then no weird

if there was an art editor, I didn't know about it

[devout vault]

Another gamemaker project I helped with was the one I wrote a C++ server for, so the server could be hosted on not-Windows

Making SFML networking interact with 39dll was... certainly something

Still have the C++ server code. Wonder if the other person still has the game maker client

[dusty pollen]

I feel like I used a weird ported version of gamemaker anyway because I can't find any evidence of there ever having been hebrew support

and yet

[devout vault]

I remember there being an opensource alternative that was somewhat compatible. Written in C++ and had a red logo

[dusty pollen]

nah I definitely had the yoyogames version

I remember the obnoxious splash

[devout vault]

It was also non-functional in many respects, to be fair 😛

[devout vault]

smh you didn't get the paid version

[dusty pollen]

In my defense, I was 9

[devout vault]

I was like 10-11?

I guess if you were 1-2 years older you would've had it 😔

(definitely how that works)

My "dream game engine" is still somewhere between "game maker (7)" and "godot"

One Day™ I'll get around to making it

[safe dragon]

there's already a Dream game engine

oh sorry it's Dreams

[runic kraken]

I am building my own language on pure category theory, because it is the only programming paradigm that makes logical sense to me
So far I am starting to implement System F
And then I will need to extend that to System F-omega

[little furnace]

That one?

A category C consists of the following three mathematical entities:

• A class ob(C), whose elements are called objects;
  Huh...

That sounds interesting, but also weird.

[safe dragon]

I think people usually moreso mention lambda calculus when it's in the context of programming. Or typed lambda calculus in char's case

[little furnace]

This makes my head go dizzy.

[safe dragon]

math 👻

nah but category theory is not particularly enjoyed even by most mathematicians

highly valuable though

terms like monad or functor come from category theory

[little furnace]

Everything after differential calculus is too advanced for me.

[safe dragon]

you can just thank other folks for wading through that stuff to give us type systems as we know em today

unless you don't like type systems

then don't thank them

[little furnace]

Thank you, very nice people I don't know who did things.

[safe dragon]

🙏

[runic kraken]

Yes, this will be a core requirement of my language

You will be unable to express 2 + 2 without using it, well not entirely true. You can write 2 + 2 but to grok it you need to have an understanding of Semigroups and Monoids

[rain apex]

mathpersons what is best way to combine multiple functions piecewise

i want to be able to say "use f1(x) = y" for x=0 to 0.5 and "use f2(x) = y" for x=0.5 to 1

[cinder karma]

What is this for

[rain apex]

like fishing patterns

let me draw

[runic kraken]

Are they pure and total? If so, composition

[rain apex]

pls imagine the red is f1(x) and blue is f2(x)

the constraints is that at the value of x where f1 changes to f2, f2 should continue smoothly from the final value of f1

it is ok if that means f2(x) is secretly f2(x, finalf1) or something

[cinder karma]

Okay

You want f2'(0.5) = f1'(0.5)

What are you planning on using this for?

[rain apex]

[redacted] ofc

but its the motion of something on 1 line

[cinder karma]

Sure. What simulator are you using, or is this mod code :P

[rain apex]

simulator...

yes i did say it is for [redacted]

[cinder karma]

Do you want

1. The way to find a function that does this...
2. How to represent this function in c#
3. To join atra in doing deadlifts

[rain apex]

3

[cinder karma]

Piecewise functions that don't piss off Cadence is an art form

[rain apex]

i give up and use easeinquad bye

[cinder karma]

Oh is this in two dimensions

[rain apex]

no its just 1

[cinder karma]

Works!

[supple ether]

are tokens case-sensitive?

[red crest]

are you asking an on topic question or do you mean some other kind of token

[supple ether]

oh no I'm in the wrong channel

[magic whale]

wow

[little furnace]

Do you know a good resource to learn this?

[safe dragon]

university

https://bartoszmilewski.com/2014/10/28/category-theory-for-programmers-the-preface/

or if you prefer a typeset pdf https://github.com/hmemcpy/milewski-ctfp-pdf/releases/tag/v1.3.0

I haven't read it but I've heard good things about it

[little furnace]

Ty. I will look into it.

[devout vault]

Found this while looking for old messages and needed to share it here

[safe dragon]

what the hell

[devout vault]

.q 6573

[heavy dagger]

#6573

I have a new respect for PHP

• Pathoschild (Jump)

Aug 19, 2025, 8:24 PM

[hushed raven]

I actually love that, and the fact it also makes some sense is even better XD

[safe dragon]

does it make sense

[hushed raven]

until the last step it does

oh wait no I looked over it again it does make sense at the last step

[devout vault]

It does make sense - $<str> references the variable, so $$var2 where var2 == "meow" meows that $$var2 == $meow

[safe dragon]

is php checking the value inside variable d, then seeing it's a c and because of the next $ it then looks in $c etc

damn

that's odd

dynamic variable names...

[devout vault]

Still works in today's PHP, too: https://onlinephp.io/c/594ec

[safe dragon]

the syntax highlighting isn't a fan though

[devout vault]

Syntax highlighting is for the weak anyways

(It's me, I'm the weak)

[safe dragon]

me too

[hushed raven]

I am also weak in that case

[safe dragon]

not my colleague who programs in regular notepad though

[hushed raven]

I am terrified, confused, and mildly impressed

[safe dragon]

I'm used to it now

[waxen bridge]

I stumbled into the wonderful world of C programming on linux many years ago using text editor and gcc. Recently I'm doing something similar at work. Imagine you have .NET SDK on your deployment PC but not an IDE and you want to test this tiny change without going through VS and git on your developer PC. You just open Notepad++ for your tiny change and build it via dotnet build. Old habits die hard... 😛

[devout vault]

the wonderful world of C programming
the only time in history that has ever been said is when it was new and people were used to assembly instead

[waxen bridge]

That's not entirely true. But it's still used too much nowadays, I agree.

I've looked at unsafe C#-code not much different from plain C. My colleague told me, that's the fastest way. Of course there were other options to gain performance. We rewrote most of the stuff to make it readable and more safe.

[rain apex]

I think a good chunk of ppl here do some flavor text editor + dotnet build

[rain apex]

It's wonderful until you have to deal with the non posix plebs /j

So far all my work target linux and only linux and I hope it stays that way

[waxen bridge]

Embedded systems still feels very retro: In most cases you just have a C compiler and the manufacturer's SDK. Not much changed over the years...

[hushed raven]

If it's a tiny change, like wrong variable names, miss-ordered operations, I'll gladly use any old text editor, but if I need to actually read/ understand the code or it's a major things I'm writing, IDE all the way

[rain apex]

The line between text editor and IDE is blurry nowadays

[safe dragon]

the post LSP era

if DAP actually finds wide adoption then even more so cause then you could do breakpoint debugging in a lot of "text editors"

[hushed raven]

DAP very much is what separates an IDE to a text editor for me, I would like to find a good general purpose editor that isn't vim or vscode, I'm sure there's plenty, I'm just not good at looking for them XD

[safe dragon]

helix is my goto these days for anything not C#

but it's definitely not for everyone

[crystal wren]

I'm quite liking Zed nowadays!

[hushed raven]

it seems similar to vim where key combos are not optional, I have tried editors like that but I can't seem to mesh with them well, unlike typical mouse navigation, navigating the OS with key combos though is great, it's a weird barriar to learn around XD

[safe dragon]

there's some other interesting new options like Fresh https://getfresh.dev/

Fresh seems to be a great gateway into terminal editors since it's otherwise a mouse-friendly environment

[hushed raven]

Zed seems like something I could get behind, I'll give that a go and see how it feels

[crystal wren]

It's written in Rust, so it's Sublime Text-y in terms of speed, but more... featureful I think?

And it does have a killswitch for the AI stuff, which is nice.

[safe dragon]

just with a lot of AI marketing

a metric fuckton of it really

from their own marketing you'd think Zed is essentially Cursor

[cinder karma]

I use vim btw

(With mouse mode set)

[hushed raven]

Fresh also looks very interesting, I do like the idea of a terminal editor but many don't have mouse support, I'll also give that one a go too, ty both!

vim has a mouse mode set? I may try vim again in that case, very useful to know

[cinder karma]

How many of you use vim with the mouse turned on? : r/vim https://share.google/pJNaYMzQFkeLzoGNE

[safe dragon]

I mean it does but you still can't do the vast majority of things with a mouse

it doesn't have menus you can click on or anything

without plugins anyway

anything is possible with plugins

[hushed raven]

Ahh the brief panic when my terminal spits out copious lines only to realize that's just rust compilation

[waxen bridge]

Didn't know about that one, thanks!

[hushed raven]

based on a quick test, fresh feels so natural, I like it!

[devout vault]

rust: not even once

[cinder karma]

Let's switch to the next topic of this channel

Y'all can talk about the steam frame

[rain apex]

i am already dizzy enough in minecraft i dont need VR to make it worse

[devout vault]

I think vivecraft is a bad implementation, but anyways

passable at best, but missing plenty of things I would want

[safe dragon]

I've never tried VR in my life

[little furnace]

micro maybe?

[cinder karma]

My eye doctor had a VR headset

It did a good job showing how good my eyes were

That's about it

(I barley knoe ehat a steam frame is lol)

[cinder karma]

What do u want?

[safe dragon]

damn .net 11 is getting some very nice network performance improvements

on Linux that is

they're gonna start making use of io_uring

the async IO api for linux

been waiting for io_uring to see actual use outside experiments

[prisma flume]

aaarggfhnng

and absolutely nothing of value was added

[safe dragon]

idk man

I see "kitty keyboard support is now available to all users"

idk what that is but it sounds very important

[cobalt shore]

I echo your aaaarrggfffnnng. I feel like the last few updates have been like this 😭

[prisma flume]

apparently kitty is this
https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/keyboard-protocol/

yeah this and chrome devtools are pretty much dead in the water as far as feature/quality/fix updates go

i can't remember the last time i did anything but groan at update notes

[safe dragon]

I swear Kitty is responsible for like 80% of all new terminal features

good stuff

I think I use kitty rn I have no idea

[cinder karma]

New terminal features

[safe dragon]

terminal emulator features technically

[cinder karma]

Like what

[prisma flume]

maybe i should ask my boss for that new laptop. getting a little tired of my mouse hand getting slow-cooked by the out fan

[safe dragon]

ability to display embeds is also a kitty protocol thing

handy for stuff like terminal file explorers

[prisma flume]

why does the out fan even aim at your right hand. that's like 90% of people

[cinder karma]

Embeds?

[safe dragon]

images, video... Just stuff that isn't text

[cinder karma]

Offices are kept at 65 F so it's a nice hand warmer

[prisma flume]

that's a lot of F

[safe dragon]

18C

incredibly cold for an office space

[prisma flume]

a perfect amount of C

[cinder karma]

Tbh I got a little $20 fan stand

Works wonders

[prisma flume]

i considered a laptop stand for the new desk but then am i going to get another one for my home sit desk and my office desk

[cinder karma]

Blueberry u doing a modfest mod?

[prisma flume]

probably not, no. if i'm modding then i'm working on the endless mod, otherwise i've got more than enough work to do

[cinder karma]

I considered a $800 ortholinear keyboard but not if I have to buy two of them

[prisma flume]

technically i have one mod ready to go but that'd require publishing a repo with a license

[cinder karma]

I have picked up and put down heavy things

And now everything hurts

Ouch

[prisma flume]

it's just 1 line copied from the spacechase0/stardewvalley repo but given the mod is 2 lines i feel like it probably warrants the license

[safe dragon]

I've come to an uncomfortable realization that I'm still not really willing to accept

I told myself I wanted to start making use of the local library for books/audiobooks....

but I'm increasingly realizing that I do in fact live in a country whose native language is not English

[dusty pollen]

heartbreaking

[safe dragon]

like 90% of the books at my library are in Dutch

even if they're originally English books

like they have several John Green books but all in Dutch

[prisma flume]

i'm sorry to hear that you can't read dutch

[safe dragon]

I can... I just don't want to

[cinder karma]

Don't u speak dutch

Which of french or German do u prefer

[safe dragon]

the realization is that I might be forced into reading in Dutch

[prisma flume]

english 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

the lingua programma

[safe dragon]

I can't understand either of em but the capital letters for nouns in German bother me so I'll pick French

I say it as a joke but I do find this kind of an actual problem

I want to read it how John Green wrote it not some Dutch translation

same for if it's Brandon Sanderson or whoever else

it wouldn't matter in theory for a book that wasn't English originally either

but that's the minority

it's a little stupid of me but I genuinely didn't expect this. In my head I just kind of assumed that everyone here would prefer reading in English if it's an English book originally

[prisma flume]

i rather thought it was only spain/portugal that were very particular about literature/entertainment being primarily spanish/portuguese

[safe dragon]

Germany and France are well known for it too

[prisma flume]

again as in imported entertainment rather than original

[safe dragon]

the Netherlands has a pretty high English literacy rate though

[prisma flume]

true, french does avoid loanwords like le plague

[safe dragon]

but I guess preference is something different

[prisma flume]

i can see that extending to books and television

[safe dragon]

perhaps it's time to force myself to overwrite the strong distaste I have towards Dutch writing that was beat into me by having to read horrendously tedious books for school

I don't think I've read in Dutch ever since

[prisma flume]

very relatable for the schoolkids here who've had to read endless dated (or worse, modernised) prose from shakespeare

[safe dragon]

still I don't think I can bring myself to read originally English books in Dutch, that just feels really wrong when I'm perfectly fluent in the language

[devout vault]

Well now I'm curious

[prisma flume]

you know spenny? get this

bouncer.

[devout vault]

Bouncing bouncer?

[prisma flume]

my next complaint about monorepos is that in order to make 2 lines of Bouncer as a fork of spenny i would have to checkout about a million unrelated lines from a hundred projects

[devout vault]

Why are you forking a 2 line mod

[prisma flume]

i'm not lol for that reason

but it's technically derivative

[devout vault]

Does the emoji react mean "yes, bouncing bouncer" or "levitating bouncer"?

[prisma flume]

he bounces

nominative determinism

[devout vault]

10/10, canonized into the Spennyverse

[prisma flume]

damn. if it's official canon then i really have to include the license

[devout vault]

Yeah, that's a big reason why I only moved to monorepos after Pathos asked when maintaining my mods

[devout vault]

...can't the github repo creation screen include a license by default

Like you just select MIT and click create

[safe dragon]

I come back reinvigorated after having the internet validate my opinions on wanting to read originally English books in English

[prisma flume]

i just generally don't since i've never known/cared enough to sort out a custom license with permissive code and restrictive assets

[red crest]

Why do you need a custom license for that

[safe dragon]

they're an aspiring lawyer

[rain apex]

I thought that's just a dual license situation

[devout vault]

...does Spenny even have assets

[rain apex]

Like u say these things are MIT these other things are ARR

[red crest]

"If the file extension is .cs, its MIT. if not, its all rights reserved" 🙂‍↕️

[cinder karma]

You should read them in French

[devout vault]

It's something I'm interested in too though

Like, one stardew3d is done, there's gonna be tons of assets

[cinder karma]

Arr?

[devout vault]

And I'm commissioning those

[red crest]

all rights reserved

[prisma flume]

no, but virtually all of my mods do

[safe dragon]

can't get annoyed by poor translations if I don't understand what's written in the first place

[rain apex]

Anyways u can always make monorepos worse by incorporating submodules

See boost/boost

[hushed raven]

That's what I do, especially because there's a chance I didn't make the assets but someone gave them to me to use or were from various places across the internet

[hushed raven]

-# forgejo my beloved, it does this, it's fantastically useful

[prisma flume]

wonder if anyone's ever merge-requested a license or two into a repo

obviously yes, but

[devout vault]

/me glances at recent casey monorepo developments

[rain apex]

Brb poisoning caseyrepo with GPL3

[devout vault]

god, ugh

[prisma flume]

you've heard of sql injection. now it's time for gpl injection

[devout vault]

even scarier tbh

[cinder karma]

What about german

[rain apex]

I feel like that's theoretically doable right

[devout vault]

Both my submodules are MIT licensed

[rain apex]

When I yoinked some code from wren, if wren was gonna ask for GPL3 i would have complied

It ended up in public domain in the end

[prisma flume]

copy and paste this GPL-3 license to 5 different repos and count to 10 and the love of your life will appear in front of your eyes!!!! ignore and do not include license and your mods will be incomptaible with 1.7..........

[red crest]

You'd still need to make sure you actually can relicense everything in the repo before you could do so with the merge

[rain apex]

In kernel modules u can't link to GPL things if u don't also declare GPL in your source code it's very strict

[devout vault]

your mods won't be compatible with 1.7 anyways /s

[cinder karma]

I'm enjoying how everything becomes licensing again

[devout vault]

And with other contributors you have to get them to agree too, right?

[red crest]

Isn't the legality of linking with regards to licenses kind of an unsolved thing still

Or untested, rather

[prisma flume]

i'm sure something will be. like maybe 'seed packets'

[cinder karma]

Insanity

[rain apex]

Licensing is a Tier 4 topic

[red crest]

Yes! If their contributions were made with a license incompatible with the new one

[cinder karma]

What are the topics of this channel again

[red crest]

Rust and licenses

[rain apex]

Well i mean when i tried the compiler literally stopped me

Or was it runtime i forgor

[red crest]

How the hell does the compiler know what your license is

[cinder karma]

Framework laptops (atra is heard quietly bitching about ingrown USB c ports)

[rain apex]

You have to declare it in the source

[cinder karma]

Huh

[rain apex]

As a static variable

[red crest]

What the fuck

[cinder karma]

Weird

[devout vault]

and coding cats

[cinder karma]

Fun though

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-crazy-cat-keyboard-cat-fast-gif-5753018

[hushed raven]

That's an odd one

[cinder karma]

You're the best coding cat, casey

[prisma flume]

??? ? ?? ???

[rain apex]

char LICENSE[] SEC("license") = "Dual BSD/GPL";

Like this

[cinder karma]

Wonderful

[red crest]

I don't know how that makes me feel

[cinder karma]

What else

I feel like my back hurts

[rain apex]

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/include/linux/license.h

i guess its up to the library to use this tho so u could be GPL3 and not call it

[red crest]

What does GPL and additional rights mean

[hushed raven]

I wanna say duel license, but very none informative

Actually informative probably isn't the right word

[cinder karma]

How do you do dual mit/gpl

I'm copyleft unless you say the magic words then I'm not?

[rain apex]

i think u can choose to take the BSD or the GPL if u include code

https://phb-crystal-ball.org/dual-licensing-kernel-modules/#What_do_BSDGPL_MITGPL_or_MPLGPL_declarations_actually_imply

[cinder karma]

Fascinating

Ooh!

https://youtu.be/L96asfTvJ_A?si=RiE6vsujUkpJ7QMU

[runic kraken]

I determined that I will learn Idris this year
https://www.idris-lang.org/

It is the most mathematically precise language in the planet

[regal ingot]

fun fact: Idris2 (i.e., the (second implementation of the) program that runs code written in Idris) is written in scheme

[safe dragon]

Idris does feel like the kind language you'd like

I've looked at it in the past for advent of code but nah

[little furnace]

I think I can't think abstract enough for that kind of language. I only ever think in entities I know from real life, and how I would model them in code in the most straightforward way.

[safe dragon]

yeah... there's a reason these languages don't tend to find much use outside academia

[hushed raven]

I'm glad in most academia, you do have the ability to choose between a more mathematical language or a more natural language option, it helps quite a lot

[dusty pollen]

I’m not. one of my lecturers made up his own proprietary language for our concurrent programming course

[hushed raven]

wow that's actually horrible, may I suggest running as fast an as far from him as possible? XD

[safe dragon]

my university uses haskell for the concurrency course these days. Was C# when I did it

[hushed raven]

Every time haskell is mentioned I have to google it, my brain does not like keeping the syntax in memory

I must've searched it atleast 10 times in the last week

[dusty pollen]

fdr4 I think was the language?

[rain apex]

Me2 except it was natural language programming

Profs had this language for 20yrs

[dusty pollen]

I never got it running on my laptop so I had to ssh into a department machine any time I used it

[safe dragon]

all you need to know is that haskell is a terrible language to teach concurrency with

[dusty pollen]

I mean fdr4 I loved haskell

[devout vault]

I missed the "fdr4 was the language" message and so tried to interpret what fdr4 meant, and the closest I got was "for da record" (no clue what the 4 would've meant)

Like "I mean for da record, I loved haskell"

[safe dragon]

four da record

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/ohhh-duh-why-didnt-i-think-of-that-gif-21849807

[marble jewel]

Could've also read it as a reference to US history - Franklin Delano Roosevelt is the only US President to have served 4 terms

[cinder karma]

I love Haskell but I dont think it's a realistic language to use outside of a tiny use case

[steel kraken]

While I haven't programmed in it myself if I was going to design a concurrency course, it would be Erlang / elixir

It was architected from the ground up specifically for fault tolerant concurrency on distributed systems

[safe dragon]

though does that actually make it a good language to teach concurrency

there's something to be said for picking a language where the student needs a better understanding of the topic to avoid common footguns or issues

though if the point is just to sell the idea to students and make them understand the value of it

picking something like elixir or golang makes sense

[steel kraken]

And value in using something that is actually used in the real world

[cinder karma]

I agree with go being a good choice

[steel kraken]

I've heard good thing about go concurrency with their green thread system

[cinder karma]

I legitimately think Julia deserves a spot in any data analytics

The ability to broadcast analysis seems fun

[cinder karma]

Is the Samsung keyboard getting worse the more I use it

It tried to correct semitone to semiconductor

[steel kraken]

duck autocorrect

[supple ether]

my keyboard constantly corrects "and" to "abs" and "ave"
it also loves correcting "different" to "docent" for some reason

[little furnace]

My keyboard corrects "well" to "we'll" when I don't want it to and doesn't when I want it to and it disappoints me to no end.

[prisma flume]

ah the classic go to he'll

[devout vault]

Somebody: <some person>, go to hell
Yoda: go to, he will

[little furnace]

It's actually smarter than that. It simply can't read my mind at the beginning of a sentence.

[prisma flume]

if it doesn't know which you want and there's no context then it should simply not try 🙂‍↕️ the machines are getting uppity

[hushed raven]

Yay Steam NextFest is now on! always a great time to explore the demos they have

[safe dragon]

opportunity to play everything from the most amateurish games you've ever seen to games that feel polished and ready for release as is

🌈

[hushed raven]

always a fun mixed bag XD

[cinder karma]

Let us know if there is anything worth playing

I wont be playing it regardless

[cinder karma]

Iro I depend on u for game recommendations

I'll ignore them

But I depend on them

[rain apex]

Atra u should play cultist simulator

[cinder karma]

Real talk how hard would it be to get licensed as a state inspector smh

All you do is read emissions codes now smh

A computer could do it

I guess I'm getting up at 6am tomorrow for this BS

[hasty sinew]

Ever leave your code, come back 2 weeks later and realize you were being an utter idiot

[marble jewel]

I don’t need 2 weeks

[rain apex]

I wake up and realize the 2am code was trashfire

[hushed raven]

2 weeks is about 3 times as long as it takes me to entirely forget my code, a couple hours is enough to make me question why I did a thing the way I did

[safe dragon]

I do things right immediately every time

[crystal wren]

Like that message, of course.

[fleet wren]

what's the saying, I don't write bad code, I only write code that goes bad

[safe dragon]

exactly

that was intentional

[dusty pollen]

awww. no IBM's entire business model is being patent trolls

[devout vault]

(I would trust it on a legacy codebase even less than I would a normal codebase 😛 )

[devout vault]

wait what?????

[dusty pollen]

they've existed before any of their competitors, they have some WILD patents

[devout vault]

Honestly I have no idea what they do these days

[dusty pollen]

casey IBM is over 100 years old

iirc they have a patent that's technically for all optical disks

(though I'm guessing they won't even attempt to enforce that one haha)

[devout vault]

I didn't realize they were that old. That's partially what I meant though - what do they even do nowadays

[dusty pollen]

patent troll their existing patents and some consultancy

a lot of consultancy, actually

and also yes the cobol but honestly that part of their business has been shrinking a lot before this lmao

[dusty pollen]

(they started out making meat and cheese cleavers/cutting machines, went on to employee punchcards, iirc it was a few decades before they even went into computing. Both microsoft and apple owe a fair amount of their existence to them because microsoft's first breakthrough was an ibm deal and apple spent a good while copying everything ibm do)

(what we think of as the old macintosh style was literally just lifted from ibm)

[devout vault]

I knew they were pretty significant historically, but as far as "what do they even still do" , my knowledge of what they do was slightly above knowing what H&R Block does (which is to say: absolutely nothing, I just see the businesses sometimes and have no clue what they do)

TIL

[dusty pollen]

consultancy, pretty much. a lot of companies have more ibm devs than employee devs

when I was at IBM our account had over 400 IBMers

[sand frost]

H&R Block does taxes

it's turbotax but in person

[safe dragon]

all I know about IBM is that they've been desperately trying to make quantum computing work for ages now

[hushed raven]

I am not knowledgable about IBM, I only know they made ancient computers and the router I used to use

[dusty pollen]

god how old was your router, they haven't done hardware in ages

[hushed raven]

It was very very old, tbf it technically wasn't the main router, just acting like a switch and was so slow

[cinder karma]

IBM has a great research division

[marble jewel]

The company I work for has a few big contracts with IBM

[ivory shadow]

Finally, what we all really want: vibe coding in all the critical financial applications that are the backbone of society and that hardly anyone alive understands at all

[marble jewel]

We live in a day and age where FAFO is being applied to the core infrastructures of society

[cinder karma]

Look, my bank clearly has enough money to code literally every UI element at least twice for some reason

"Oh, do you want lookahead dividends? Well, do you want an ugly chart or a slightly prettier bar graph? These are under two different parts of the site"

[marble jewel]

They should modernize all of that legacy code to Javascript /s

[sand frost]

at work they announced they will be evaluating AI with the help of AI

[ivory shadow]

Nah. Something that important should go straight into rust. The modern choice for unknowable nonsense that most developers find incomprehensible.

[sand frost]

they made sure to note they're trying multiple AIs! both chatGPT and Gemini!

[marble jewel]

We need something that makes all of the various AIs discuss problems amongst themselves to come to a solution. A single prompt generates a recursive discussion costing thousands each time.

[cinder karma]

They're literally doing that

Is called OpenClaw

[ivory shadow]

They haven't gone far enough yet. I want to be able to send a prompt and see my air quality meter dip by a point every time I press enter.

[fleet wren]

all these AIs and their environmental impact; we should return to relying on the 20 foot tall, still twitching corpse of an unknown humanoid species restrained half a kilometer deep beneath Apple’s headquarters in Cupertino, California performing the calculation work of 150 supercomputers

[sand frost]

it's interesting because there is not universal agreement among faculty (there never is) but there is broad support for limiting or being cautious around AI, while among the top admin it seems to be all systems go

[fleet wren]

look I know the giant corpse is not very scalable but still

[sand frost]

(president, provost, etc) based on the number of pro-AI events they plan

[sand frost]

we need more bigfoot is what I'm hearing

re-wild the forests of the PNW for better bigfoot corpses

[dusty pollen]

well it sure isn't the cs department planning those events, AI requires interacting with computers

[marble jewel]

As someone who is employed in a tech-sector area by a tech company, how much we use AI is being tracked for the purpose of making sure everyone is using it sufficiently

It's literally viewed as me having negative performance if I code too much without relying on AI

[dusty pollen]

"but my code actually runs"
"so you admit it! you didn't use ai!"

[cinder karma]

Tbh we are allowed to use it (limited to ofc not leaking company secrets to it) but we dont have to

I mostly use it for glue scripts lol

[rain apex]

I like not having to write dum coverage tests myself

[safe dragon]

I'm increasingly numb to someone stating they chatgpt'ed something or asked gemini or whatever

it's just so omnipresent

[prisma flume]

i was playing catan with some friends (of friends) the other day and while discussing a rule one of them goes 'oh dw ill ask chatgpt'. while i am holding the rules sheet

from the box. for the board game on the table

[safe dragon]

grok is this true

[prisma flume]

reader, chatgpt did not give the answer the rules did

[safe dragon]

honestly that kind of surprises me

surely the catan rulebook is in its training set somewhere

[prisma flume]

someone else decided to take a photo or video or something of the board and ask their favourite chatbot by voice whether the play was valid

reader it did not even get the colour of the pieces correct

[safe dragon]

wtf

that's dire

clearly problem here is that they didn't use the latest paid chatgpt model

[steel kraken]

the self fulfilling prophecy of ensure everyone uses the AI to justify paying for it, then say that AI is helping because everyone is using it

[crystal wren]

...please tell me that's not true. Also, can I screenshot this to show someone and make them as annoyed as I am at this happening?

[steel kraken]

the metric used currently at my workplace is used at least once a week = Using AI

[prisma flume]

absolutely

[safe dragon]

show it to chatgpt to have someone to rant with

[prisma flume]

'chatgpt can this really happen. please tell me no''

[safe dragon]

grok how should I feel about this situation

I recently ended up on twitter unfortunately and man the comments really are all just people asking grok

[crystal wren]

It has been shown, and the response was appropriate.

[prisma flume]

i don't know why people are using clanker as a slur for robots when grok is right there

oh, picard

[safe dragon]

one of the comments at the top was like "@grok how do people feel about this situation" as if they couldn't just fuckin read the comment section they were in

[prisma flume]

'computer is this true? verify'

[cinder karma]

I hate the AI summaries on the cadence docs now

It's so lazy

If you're gonna do this

At least pay some poor engineer to approve it

Otoh, a YouTube channel i found uses AI text to speech so the guy doesn't have to do so many takes

[safe dragon]

my confession is that I use LLMs as my translation machine for languages I don't know... it's a lot more reliable than the regular machine translators and easier to tweak by giving more context

helps avoid it using the wrong meaning of a word or something like we had at my old job where sometimes in a translation file for French/German it translated the word "order" either as a command or as like sort order when our intended meaning was a customer order

[prisma flume]

there's a guy at work who's big on stocks and ai who decided to make a tool/script that pipes all our translations to be auto-generated by a chatbot rather than our usual translators. oh QA had a good yell at him lol

[safe dragon]

I have never had the luxury of any actual people to help with translation

neither at my old job nor my current one

my old job used to hire a translation company but apparently their quality of the translations they gave us was generally quite terrible

and we asked a spanish coworker for translation once when we introduced spanish support and it was blatantly obvious they just put the entire json file into a machine translator cause it messed up the json format

that was before LLMs existed, it was just the ol' machine translators

at my current job the application technically supports French and German but genuinely no one that we know of uses either of these

so there's no real interest it getting them done "properly"

[cinder karma]

(The material is good, he just has a British accent llm do the narration)

Which i think is fair tbh

He does pretty animations of circuits

I haven't detected an inaccuracy, and he says he only uses the llm as a text to voice, nothing more

His own accent is pretty severe and harder to understand

[prisma flume]

yeah the translations aren't that important for us either and personally i'm sure the translator we use also just pipes them into a machine

[little furnace]

The rules have changed across editions. If you didn't use wooden meeples, you're playing the wrong edition.

I'm a Catan purist. Plastic hurt this game more than AI could ever do.

Look at the pieces on the right and tell me this doesn't look awful.

[prisma flume]

well we were playing the edition we had, and i'm something of a 'not mix and matching rules' purist

[marble jewel]

I should 3d print my own catan pieces. Still plastic, but at least I can use a wood filament or better models.

[little furnace]

That does make sense, but I used the opportunity to rant about plastic Catan.

[devout vault]

Yeah that’s what rules lawyering in TTRPGs is for

[red crest]

I've done more rules lawyering in one type of card game with my family than all my years of playing dnd

[devout vault]

Oh, with family? That’s different

[red crest]

Is it?

[prisma flume]

since we have catan gpt in here, maybe you can answer whether the 7-roll robber only steals a resource if a discard occurred (i.e. a player had 7+ cards and discarded) and not otherwise

[red crest]

A lot of my DND time has also been with family

[devout vault]

Bonus points if you bring in other families (ex. Partners of family members)

[devout vault]

I don’t know your family, but I feel like the average one I’d expect most people to not know half of what’s going on. So that’d align with my expectations still

[little furnace]

The robber only steals when it was placed on a tile. It then steals of everyone who has a settlement or city adjacent to it.

[red crest]

The card game my family enjoys is Unstable Unicorns and the arguments in that get so (jokingly, mostly) heated
The first time my wife played with us after she met my family she told me afterwards "you know that explains some stuff about you I think /lh"

[devout vault]

Adjacent?????

Not just the same tile??

[little furnace]

I kinda meant that. You can't put them on tiles but put them on the edges, so it's adjacent.

[prisma flume]

the rulebook uses the wording after the discard occurs, when referring to the steal action, though, so it stands to reason that if no player had over 7 cards and discarded, no resources can be stolen

[devout vault]

I have not played catan in a while.c to be fair

[devout vault]

But did they implicitly mean “would have occurred” or “the discard phase” /s

Speaking of board game errata

The terraria board game has errata already. I think most people don’t have the board game yet

(I don’t, at least - I think only regions close to the manufacturing have it so far)

[red crest]

My family (save for one) all knows DND! Though, one of them mostly has knowledge from their time playing ADND, one has a lot of 3.5 knowledge, and I have the 5e knowledge... so it does get a bit muddied sometimes.

[little furnace]

I don't really know the rules in other languages, but since it's a German game, it might actually be a translation error. But just in case, I will check the rules for your specific edition. Which is it?

[devout vault]

Perfect for mixing rules!

[red crest]

Not if you're the DM!

(I am not, I could never)

[devout vault]

What about 2e and 4e and 5.5e

[little furnace]

I wanted to learn The Dark Eye 4E with my family, but we have kinda given up on that. Way too many rules.

[red crest]

I thought 2e was kinda covered in ADND, but it was way before my time so idk

I have never heard anything about 4e

5.5e is what we're actually using currently

[devout vault]

(Same, it scary)

Also gotta drive now 😔

[red crest]

I did it once about 10 years ago for a oneshot and I felt like I did such a terrible job (even though my players said it was fine) I've never wanted to do it again 😌

[prisma flume]

i asked and she said 'um the normal one. no edition' so good luck working off that

[little furnace]

Do you know when she bought it? Is the box perfectly square?

[prisma flume]

i'll ask later since we're both in the office instead of at home lol

[little furnace]

Let me guess, you aren't in the office of a boardgame publisher and this is work-related?

[prisma flume]

sadly we don't work for catan inc.

[little furnace]

Oh, true, please also ask her for the publisher (there should be a logo somewhere on the box). It could be Mayfair, Kosmos or actually a company called Catan Studio.

But later, of course.

[devout vault]

but i was told 5.5e is literally the devil (and not the d&d kind)

[red crest]

I don't look at DND opinions online so I've been told nothing 😌

[safe dragon]

my opinion is that having both a decimal value and a letter suffix is too much

[prisma flume]

the masses yearn for semantic versioning in the board games

[safe dragon]

5e? fine, 5.5? fine, 5.5e? too much

[prisma flume]

does e not stand for 'edition' rather than an iteration

[safe dragon]

software devs barely know how to adhere to semver...

[safe dragon]

idk

[red crest]

Can't continue to sell 5e stuff if you call it 6e

[little furnace]

They are synonymous in board games.

[terse galleon]

5.5.1 changelog:

• sorcerers no longer explode when coming into contact with demons

[red crest]

Fwiw it's not officially called 5.5e afaik, it's just 5e 2024 edition or whatever

[prisma flume]

in the sense of having a 5.5, 5.5a, 5.5b, .. release cycle

[safe dragon]

5th edition 2024 edition

[little furnace]

Oh.

[safe dragon]

snapshot 6.0a13 for d&d

[prisma flume]

classic d_&_d_5.5.0.1-alpha.final.FINAL_1.zip

[devout vault]

It's not 5e like a b c d e

It's 5e as in 5th edition

[little furnace]

I thought it was short for "epsilon"

Like "alpha"

But "epsilon"

[red crest]

(Nvm it's still just called 5e, but you can buy a 2024 Core Rules book, which revises the 5th edition but is also the 5th edition. Totally sensible)

[devout vault]

They also officially call it X

[prisma flume]

maybe it's short for "et cetera" and they don't care much about the minor semver number

[devout vault]

(Yeahhhhh they're afraid of a new edition like MS is of minecraft 1.22)

(And now we'll never get 1.22)

[little furnace]

Did they suddenly stop releasing yearly versions?

[safe dragon]

I was pretty confused many years ago when I realized D&D is a ruleset and not just a generic term for "those games where people role play around a table"

[devout vault]

For MC? They're named after the year and drop number now

Just skipped 1.22

[devout vault]

You know more than most people I bet

[little furnace]

I was pretty confused many years ago when people said they were playing D&D and then the box said "Pathfinder" or something.

[safe dragon]

I love having different editions of a single edition

[devout vault]

but pathfinder people are the ones to very clearly differentiate between playing d&d vs playing pathfinder /s

(Definitely easier to just call it "D&D as in TTRPG" to the average person though, since most people won't know the difference)

[little furnace]

I have no idea, both have stats and rolls. I think.

[safe dragon]

all I know about pathfinder is that I have Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous in my steam backlog but it's way too daunting to ever play

[devout vault]

I think I got through chapter/act/whatever 1 and got distracted (as is tradition)

Alternate response: all I know about pathfinder is this darn one I've been optimizing (and accidentally making even slower at times)

[safe dragon]

my D&D experience is limited to playing a part of chapter 1 of BG3

[devout vault]

I never got through act 1 of BG3

Think the furthest I got was reaching the grove the first time

[red crest]

I think that might be the bare minimum progress I could say counts for having played bg3

[prisma flume]

i'd say that still only falls under 'looked at'

[safe dragon]

first time I stopped playing was just because the combat just felt super bad with a billion things I didn't understand. Spent a solid whole just trying to parse wtf armour ratings mean and tf is going on with dexterity

[devout vault]

But I got almost to the grove like 3-4 times!

(If it helps, I did go through the little ruins where you find Withers)

[prisma flume]

how have you 100% completed 5 playthroughs of the intro cutscene

[red crest]

I gave it a buff because there's a lot you could accidentally wander into before the Grove if you really ignored the main path

[safe dragon]

I loved divinity original sin 1 & 2 but bg3 combat just felt bizarre and wrong to me

weird ass mechanics like needing to go camping to reuse spells

was just very strange

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-long-hair-mustache-magic-shia-labeouf-gif-17741293

(but also, the allure of the idea of mods making me think this time might be different)

[prisma flume]

mods making....

[devout vault]

Not mod developing. ... the allure of "the idea of mods" making ...

[dusty pollen]

I was gonna play baldur's gate but then my friend was like "your pc can barely handle stardew" and "it might genuinely explode" and "no you cannot ignore minimum requirements so much that you play on a pc without a dedicated GPU"

[devout vault]

I don't have a dedicated GPU and I bet I could play it

[prisma flume]

i was able to play act 3 of bg3 at like patch 2 on my work laptop on integrated graphics. you're good lol

[red crest]

I never finished act 3 (I don't remember if I even actually got to it?) because of mods
Not because I kept restarting but because my wife and I used a ton of them in our playthrough, then stopped playing for a while, and then it was like 3 major patches later and the idea of fixing our mod list was so daunting we never went back yet

[little furnace]

Let me suggest a new algorithm: PathGPT:

Path PathGPT(Map map, Tile start, Tile goal)
{
    return Parse(chatgpt.query($"I have this map: {map}. My character is at {start} and needs to get to {goal}. Can you optimize the path?"))
}

[terse galleon]

you could look into playing on nvidia servers remotely. that's what my friend who has a macbook did for bg3

[devout vault]

To be fair, it's a pretty new AMD CPU/GPU combo (ie. my framework laptop)

My desktop does have a dedicated GPU

[safe dragon]

the steam deck surprisingly plays bg3 fine

[dusty pollen]

my pc is new compared to some things! like... me

[devout vault]

A 4080, if I remember right. (I'm at the laptop right now)

[prisma flume]

granted at one point it must've run out of memory since the world stopped loading but i thought that was an interesting feature in itself

just walking around on the occasional odd square of flooring with all the props and setpieces missing

[red crest]

I think thats just emulating when the DM didn't prep enough

[devout vault]

If I wanted to do that, I'd go to older minecraft versions where the chunk display building sometimes glitched out

[prisma flume]

emulating not being very imaginative while playing a largely pen-and-paper-based improv board game

[devout vault]

Hmm. I think that would perform worse than even the worst I got my pathfinder 😛

Network latency alone...

[dusty pollen]

it's still younger than all legal discord users! for another three years!

[steel kraken]

            content: `
              Your player data in this lobby is ${JSON.stringify(current)}
              It is currently your turn and you can run one of the following actions:
                ${JSON.stringify(options, undefined, 2)}
              The current turn state is:
                ${JSON.stringify(turn, undefined, 4)}
              The various team states are as follows:
              ${Object.entries(teamStates).map(([key, teamState]) => `Team ${key}: ${JSON.stringify(untrack(() => teamState()))}`).join("\n")}
              The various player states (including yours) are as follows:
              ${Object.entries(playerStates).map(([key, playerState]) => `Player ${key}: ${JSON.stringify(untrack(() => playerState()))}`).join("\n")}
              The various property states are as follows (owner = teamId, -1 is no owner):
              ${Object.entries(propertyStates).map(([key, propertyState]) => `Space ${key}: ${JSON.stringify(untrack(() => propertyState()))}`).join("\n")}
            `

[devout vault]

And you use discord on it? How scandalous

[prisma flume]

technically this laptop has an nvidia t500 but really it's just using intel integrated graphics

[devout vault]

...is that the monopoly

[steel kraken]

yes

[red crest]

I wanna ask
Who actually uses pen to play a ttrpg

[prisma flume]

but ive finally caved and asked for a new laptop since it runs like an oven and the fans are aimed right at my fingers

[devout vault]

monsters. they're real

[terse galleon]

god in my game (not DND, but tabletop) the party has been on a planet for like three sessions now and the DM showed us a few pictures, and only last week did i think to be like "hey wait where are we?" and the DM lost his mind because none of us had bothered to check our surroundings for the last three weeks and he'd been going secretly crazy over it

[prisma flume]

commit to your bad decisions and live with the consequences. pencils are basically save scumming

[devout vault]

I love GPUs that are there purely to be ornamental

[little furnace]

Are you supposed to use something else?

[devout vault]

Like my eyes when I don't have my glasses

[red crest]

Colored pencils, yes

[terse galleon]

sheet protector + expo marker 🙂‍↕️

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #7443 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1475999593572335738)

[red crest]

I would accept a sparkly gel pen

[little furnace]

I take erasable pens.

[prisma flume]

8b pencils for important information and charcoal for the details. life is transient after all

[devout vault]

something something tom cardy perception check

(I rewatched a bunch of his stuff and a bunch of BDG's stuff a few weeks ago, and they are stuck in my head)

[terse galleon]

his jurassic park song is my favorite

[devout vault]

(Lately was Tom Cardy's Transcendental Cha Cha Cha, but I somehow got BDG's Siblings Dance mixed into a specific part of it in my brain)

I have been tempted to grab a video downloader and throw them into a video editor and splice the specific part. And unleash it to the masses (after asking for permission)

[safe dragon]

I love tom cardy

so many of the videos just feel like they ran into someone weird or rude person somewhere and made a song about em

[devout vault]

Or just musical/lyrical shitposts

[cinder karma]

Looks like mobile discord js getting name fonts

I'm very sad

[little furnace]

Why? You will likely be able to disable them.

[devout vault]

wow these lined up almost perfectly

[cinder karma]

I forgot c# doesn't let you use, say RandomGeneric<_> for "infer that shit for me I'm lazy"

[stoic gazelle]

how does that differ from using var?

[cinder karma]

Can't do method.CreateDelagate<var>

[stoic gazelle]

ah, yeah, makes sense

that's fancy

[red crest]

Can you not do CreateDelegate(thing.GetType()) instead

[cinder karma]

I'm on parole and am allowed to use rust

(But also I want the type engine to check me as much as possible)

Because I'm very dumb, I like relying on static analysis as much as possible

[red crest]

Checking you as much as possible seems inconsistent with "infer that shit for me I'm lazy"

[cinder karma]

Inferred is still available for static analysis

In this case, the type was given by the LHS already, so inference is possible

And would be checked at all the call sites

Also, in Rust, vsc will helpfully tell me what got inferred.

So I type less but it's still visible to me

[stoic gazelle]

"I type less" feels like a pun on using Types and on typing on a keyboard

[cinder karma]

Anyone else getting aggressive autocomplete on gitlab?

Or is it edge

I'll type two letters and it will suggest words

Fuck I forgot that someone was rebooting out gitlab tonight

I'll take it as a request to go home

[steel kraken]

Doesn't the C# inference of generics come from also being generic as well?
like you just use T everywhere

[supple ether]

c# can infer generics sometimes

like with linq

[devout vault]

Does it ever do it outside of method overloads and/or normal type inference stuff?

Like I can't exactly do new KeyValuePair<>( someString, someInt )

[supple ether]

I think sometimes it can do it for collections? but mostly it doesn't for generic types

with delegates specifically though, you can pass a method handle as an untyped Delegate if it's in the same class that the method is declared in

[devout vault]

Example?

Brain slightly mushy tonight it seems

[supple ether]

public void DoThingWithDelegate(Delegate method)
{
...
}

public void DoThing()
{
...
}

public void Run()
{
  DoThingWithDelegate(DoThing);
}

[devout vault]

Is Delegate in this context the standard C# class, or a local custom one?

[supple ether]

it's the type Delegate

standard c#

[rain apex]

Wow type erasure

[devout vault]

Is there even any inference involved there? I thought Delegate was just Action-or-Func<whatever-the-heck-you-want>, and so basically an implicit cast in that example

[supple ether]

sorta, but normally it forces you to cast it to a specific delegate type

so if Run and DoThing were in separate classes, you would have to do DoThingWithDelegate((Action)DoThing)

[devout vault]

Just to be clear (again, brain mushy) - do you mean DoThingWithDelegate((Action)OtherClass.DoThing)?

[supple ether]

yeah

[devout vault]

huh

That's bizarre

[supple ether]

although you could do it the other way with using static technically

yeah it's weird

[devout vault]

I usually forget using static exists

Still feels more like an implicit cast than inference to me

[supple ether]

I never use it because I feel like 99% of the time it just makes things harder to understand

[devout vault]

I don't think I've ever used Delegate on its own

Always Action<>, Func<>, or a specific typed delegate

Closest I get would be calling a static function of Delegate (which doesn't count in my opinion)

[steel kraken]

I vaguely remember using raw delegates like 15 years ago or something crazy in winforms 4.5 or something

as it was a way to get callbacks originating from other threads to then run on main thread

[devout vault]

Multithreading?

[supple ether]

I used it only once as a simplified way of passing around method handles

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

-# okay well I did use a Parallel.ForEach recently

[stoic gazelle]

hides my Task.Factory.StartNew

[steel kraken]

private delegate void SetTask_(string text);

public void SetTask(string text) {
    if (this.InvokeRequired) {
         this.Invoke(new SetTask_(SetTask), text);
    }
    else {
        progressLabel.Text = text;
    }
}

last changed Jan 11th 2013, so only 13-14 years old

and was indeed framework v4.5

[cinder karma]

Yeah it can infer the whole thing sometimes but you cant partial infer

Anyway

To beat a dead horse, I miss rust

[rain apex]

take rust away from me please

[cinder karma]

Do I get to be Canadian

[hard sorrel]

i just want you guys to know that the only reason i managed to remember to ask here is that literally all the modding communities for other games based on XNA/FNA are not online yet 😭

im setting up stuff for my own game using Monocle and i keep encountering this error DllNotFoundException: Unable to load DLL 'SDL3' or one of its dependencies: The specified module could not be found. (0x8007007E)

when my Game is initializing

[safe dragon]

damn SDL3, fancy and new