programmers-off-topic

[rain apex]

What is purpose of make if no homf

[long verge]

Chocolate

Chocolate, JAPAN

[cinder karma]

Unfortunately, I also enjoy running fast

And I've gotta be light for that

[sand frost]

Today?? No. Tomorrow? Probably date night (a classic)

Also chocolate

[lament osprey]

Sounds like a good combo

[red crest]

I'm going out for a nice dinner I reserved 4 months ago but thats about it

[safe dragon]

I'm probably gonna go buy groceries

that's about it

[sand frost]

Might sleep in!! That will be great

[hardy jewel]

I was going to go out for dinner with my partner but she's flooded in her home without power

so not much here either

[cinder karma]

I'm gonna go and re-finish my headlights

[oblique harness]

@cinder karma channel description says coding cats. those are the coding cats in question. the junimos cannot get me

[cinder karma]

Adorable

So cute

[sand frost]

https://rose.systems/animalist/ nerdsniping game

[red crest]

failed immediately because i thought of "cat" and "parrot" at the same time and wrote "carrot"

[long verge]

Score : 22

Cropped too much

English's nerfing me

And the timer is stressing me out

[sand frost]

timer is stressful... i spent the last 10s just panicking

[long verge]

yeah

the timer taking half of my screen was funny tho

[little furnace]

63, and at that point I was no longer stressed out because I was very happy with my score.

At the end I was thinking of Sonic and struggling to write Echidna.

[sand frost]

i couldn't spell that one!

[little furnace]

Chimpanzee was even harder.

The more I look at my list, the funnier my way of thinking feels.

[dusty pollen]

111

[little furnace]

Full list, pls

[sand frost]

i didnt know you could download a list

and apparently the website does not remember me 🙁

i got 200 yesterday but my husband did interject after i got around 100

[sand frost]

i think my favorite off my list was hellbender

[little furnace]

Wow.

[prisma flume]

hellbender and sidewinder are two of the animals of all time

[devout vault]

First try was 37 (got a LOT of mileage from remembering SDV things). Fun fact, did you know ducks are a more specific type of dinosaur (apparently)?

[devout vault]

Yeah that last 10s I kinda just stared at it like "they really made it do that?"

[prisma flume]

207 🥳 your brain just sort of turns off after a while and the animals stop coming

i don't know why it accepted egg. there were 5 seconds left and i was thinking 'egg' every 5 seconds anyway

[devout vault]

egg????

[prisma flume]

lol

[devout vault]

And yet it wouldn't accept mushroom

[prisma flume]

phasmatodea are stick insects. what do you mean 'egg'

[devout vault]

Oh, is it like how it thought duck = dinosaur for me

[prisma flume]

in some roundabout egg-shaped way yes

[cinder karma]

Mushrooms arent animals

They are fungi

And birds are dinosaurs

[devout vault]

how do you explain egg

[prisma flume]

i choose not to

[cinder karma]

I learned recently that whey protein powder often just has lactase in it now

How does the lactase survive the stomach

[prisma flume]

you may as well just buy milk powder at that point

[cinder karma]

Lactase, not lactose

[prisma flume]

my one chance and i blew it

[cinder karma]

It's so the lactose intolerant dont react to the trace amount of lactose in whey protien

Anyways my current favorite animal is a pagolin

(Yes, my current favorite animal changes quite often)

[prisma flume]

why couldn't you have mentioned pangolins before i started

then i could've kept going with anteaters and budgies and dung beetles

[cinder karma]

I just got home and ate dinner and I'm exhausted

Gonna knit a bit and fall asleep

I'm not looking forward to going back into crunch oh my god

Did you get water bears?

[prisma flume]

no black, polar, brown, panda, and moon

managed more types of ants than i did bears

[cinder karma]

Tardigrade - Wikipedia https://share.google/YlF96d2CBNPpbZioM

Look at these babies

What about sea slugs

[prisma flume]

i put sea cucumber and a few types of starfish. wonderfully it accepts coral

[cinder karma]

Coral is an animal!

Anemone-like

Sponges and sharks and flounder and angelfish and anglers and lobsters....

[prisma flume]

YOU need to take the quiz

[cinder karma]

Earthworms and tapeworm and nematodes and fruit flies

[prisma flume]

don't send them HERE

[cinder karma]

I'm in bed already

Does it accept extinct animals

And how bad can my spelling be

Not sure i can reliability spell ichasour

[prisma flume]

ichthyosaur???

well it didn't accept dinosaur but i think that's because it's about as vague as 'fish'

[devout vault]

It does accept extinct

Source: "trex" and "pterodactyl"

[sand frost]

apparently this is my list, take 2

i also answered a couple extinct ones

dodo

[devout vault]

Hey now, they may not be very active on this SDV server, but Dodo is very much alive

I'm not sure how many people here have even talked to Dodo

[lament osprey]

[crystal wren]

[cinder karma]

https://www.php.net/manual/en/class.gender.php

[crystal wren]

$gender = Gender.FRANCE;

I forget basic PHP syntax, don't hate me.

[prisma flume]

nice to know for simple porting of boolean types you can get an easy cast to the default values of ANY/BRITAIN

[cinder karma]

U french now?

[dusty pollen]

hold on, where is php getting this data from

it's a built in db of names...

why

php your own official website not responding to menu options is concerning

ah, it's a third party package whose docs are inexplicably in the main php site

[cinder karma]

Google recovers "deleted" Nest video in high-profile abduction case - Ars Technica https://share.google/haoHAJGxtxGHS25vI

I guess I'm not surprised deleted isnt deleted, lol

[safe dragon]

this kind of reminds me of node coming with a preprogrammed list of trusted ssl certificate authorities instead of using the ones built into the operating systems it runs on

which can be a massive pain in the ass to deal

though as of somewhat recently there is a command flag --use-system-ca to do what they should've been doing from the start and just relying on either openssl or the windows certificate store

[cinder karma]

https://youtu.be/mrGfahzt-4Q?si=PfGX6JMKl0CWlnQy

I love this man's talks

[dusty pollen]

This isn't an appropriate topic for this server, I'm afraid

[little furnace]

Oh, sorry.

Should have thought about that sooner.

[little furnace]

https://github.com/asozialesnetzwerk/rost

I think I'm going to learn Rost.

[long verge]

hell yeah there's also a french one

[safe dragon]

beautiful

[little furnace]

https://github.com/jeroenhd/roest

[safe dragon]

oh good

[lament osprey]

What’s Rust programming

[safe dragon]

programming in the rust programming language

a language mainly liked/used for having performance very comparable to C/C++ but with significantly more safety and security guarantees

[lament osprey]

Ah nice

[devout vault]

and pain and misery and suffering and agony and and and

[fleet wren]

apparently last Dec Rust for Linux is no longer experimental

[rain apex]

casey: Pain<Misery<'suffer, Mood = Agony>>

[fleet wren]

not even C++ made it btw

[devout vault]

is agony a mood

[fleet wren]

(someone asked Linus why he doesn't accept C++ and I think he cursed the asker's bloodline for 10000 years)

[rain apex]

It says right here that it's an associated type Self::Mood

😌

I had chu vs lifetimes round 3, once again concluding that I can't do what I wanna do

I wonder if there's another language that has traits though that's the one enjoyable thing about this whole endeavor

[dusty pollen]

scala might. scala has a whole lot of nonsense

[rain apex]

It's like if C# extension methods weren't funny static methods and had access to private fields

[dusty pollen]

scala has their funny singleton extension pattern

[rain apex]

And also if Horse : NPC isn't real and can't hurt you

[safe dragon]

haskell goes miles further than traits ever have

[rain apex]

But haskell only exists on research papers

[dusty pollen]

haskell has a 2gb compiler and that offends me personally

[rain apex]

Is anyone gonna give me 3.50 to go learn it

[safe dragon]

no

[devout vault]

it what

[devout vault]

if I paypal you $3.50 will you make a haskell stardew mod

[rain apex]

NoU

[devout vault]

😔

[dusty pollen]

no seriously. ghc is over 2gb

[rain apex]

Hold on i thought 2gb meant how much memory it uses not the binary size (???)

[dusty pollen]

also the g doesn't stand for general it stands for Glasgow

binary size!!!

[devout vault]

2 glasgow bytes?

[rain apex]

Fear

Why is it hueg

[dusty pollen]

yes, the giga haskell compiler is 2 Glasgow bytes big

[fleet wren]

the real reason Rust is so good is that it has sane and practical functional programming features

[safe dragon]

haskell type system enjoyers must feel bad every time a new language comes out cause they almost never support higher-kinded polymorphism which is their baby and their beloved

[devout vault]

but its not good

[fleet wren]

(someone get me away from C++'s iter*tors)

[dusty pollen]

I'm a Haskell enjoyer, not delusional...

[devout vault]

feel bad? not feel a smug sense of superiority?

[devout vault]

is this intentionally referencing (ha) the syntax for dereferencing a pointer

(also C++ has foreach now)

("now" - for a while)

[safe dragon]

I'd like to think they would enjoy there being more languages that do the things they think are good

[devout vault]

I dunno, tech people are really good at being smug about things sometimes

[sand frost]

My student is learning Fortran

If that makes any of you feel better about Haskell

[safe dragon]

it doesn't

cause I know almost nothing about fortran

[sand frost]

Fortran is for dinosaurs

First appeared 1957 according to Wikipedia

[pliant snow]

not created, appeared

fortran was dug up from beneath the earth, a relic of an age long past

[sand frost]

There’s a nice diagram titled “Fortran and COBOL family tree”

[safe dragon]

fortran was born

damn

back when we had all natural organic programming languages

[chrome sequoia]

I had to learn haskell in one of my courses last year, it wasn't that bad after I got the hang of it

a lot of my classmates really seemed to hate it though

[safe dragon]

I didn't really start to appreciate it till a compilers class where we had to build a compile for a C#-like language to some stack machine thing

there the elegance of its parser combinators and the applicative/monad magic really showed itself

I did advent of code in it for one the years some time ago but apart from that haven't used it since

[sand frost]

Haskell makes you twist your brain into funny shapes

Probably some peoples brains started out funny shapes

[safe dragon]

I do generally like functional programming paradigms but haskell specifically seems to lean a lot on the math heavy theoretical side where they lose me

I am also extremely opposed to something that is done regularly in haskell which is "pointfree/tacit programming" where you don't define the arguments your functions take at all but just "compose" the function and have the arguments be inferred

it's something I find actively harmful to the readability of the code and the speed of comprehenion when encountered

0/10 wish it wasn't even allowed

like thanks now I have a function where nothing about it tells me what you actually expect as input arguments beyond a type definition unless I open the source code of the function and try to infer it myself from the implementation

[rain apex]

why would anyone want this

[safe dragon]

it is kind of useful if you're programming something very abstract in nature like mathematical proofs or something

then there's value in only seeing purely what it actually functionally does without any names

in theory anyway

[rain apex]

in practice pls just make your LSP better

[safe dragon]

for some reason despite haskell in theory having very exact strict knowledge about your code, it has always had rather poor error messages

and it's obviously far too old to have started with LSPs in mind though it has a somewhat decent one

though I guess some of the magic you can do with the haskell type system is actually a downside when you want to create good error messages

[rain apex]

yea i think this is prob why python LSP r all kinda ass

[safe dragon]

in a strange way yeah. In python you're kinda going in the opposite direction with a lack of information to use

[long verge]

Fun fact:
My professors would tell us to let Haskell infers the arguments instead of teaching us to correctly define everything

It pissed me off

[safe dragon]

they did teach what is generally preferred in haskell circles

[prisma flume]

i suppose that's fine so long as you're not being penalised for explicitly defining args instead of implicitly

[safe dragon]

if you get to the point of needing composition operators just to avoid naming your arguments you probably should just name them

I think there's a subgroup among haskell uses who just derive joy from figuring out how to write a function without needing to define arguments

regardless of whether it's good

[long verge]

Yeah

Never did Haskell since anyways

[prisma flume]

big condition ?? function() energy from n days ago

[safe dragon]

I think even they'd agree though if you have multiple arguments of the same type that serve different functions they should probably be given names

but maybe some wouldn't

imagine a function with 4 unnamed boolean arguments

let's go gambling

[prisma flume]

see i already explicitly name all args in c# as a rule ever since running into Math.Atan2

and typescript physically banning you from naming them gives me hives

literally unnamed args would give me conniptions

[steel kraken]

Outside of Typescript, I don't think any language was made with LSPs in mind (and Typescript technically didn't actually use the LSP spec until the tsgo rewrite, it used internal apis into vscode, but the lsp spec is based on it)

[safe dragon]

Plenty newer kids on the block start out with having an lsp as part of the language tooling

stuff like Gleam

[rain apex]

when did rust get rust-analyzer

[safe dragon]

well rust had rls prior to that

rust is not a new kid on the block in my definition though

[steel kraken]

ok gleam is fair, though its kind of a baby with its first release being 2019 and 1.0 being 2024

[rain apex]

i think any language younger than 2000 is new kid

[safe dragon]

rust is 4 years older than LSP itself

[steel kraken]

C# barely getting its new kid title

[safe dragon]

new kids are babies are they not

[prisma flume]

there are grown ass adults born after c#

[safe dragon]

yes

[long verge]

Where do we draw the elderly line ?

[safe dragon]

some of my coworkers are younger than C#

[prisma flume]

junior developers in a senior language

[prisma flume]

whenever back pain emerges. so about 30

[steel kraken]

im younger than python and java, but older than C#

[safe dragon]

same

[rain apex]

have u considered that your coworkers are also baby

[steel kraken]

I spent a good 4-5 year run always being the youngest on the team, and yet being the most knowledgable in C#

[safe dragon]

the youngest person in my team is actually a massive smoking addict and people keep thinking he's at least 30 so he doesn't really give baby vibes

he's 24 tho

[prisma flume]

don't do cigs, kids

especially not 24/7 outside my window you assholes. you assholes.

[safe dragon]

guy tried snus to stop smoking but then just started doing both. Man's 50% nicotine at this point

[long verge]

Smoking (poorly) ages ppl

[safe dragon]

I've noticed

[rain apex]

what is snus

[long verge]

Nicotine thing you put in your mouth

[prisma flume]

it's like smoking except you swap lung cancer for mouth cancer

[long verge]

Very popular in Norway iirc

[rain apex]

wow

[safe dragon]

it's essentially a pouch of tabacco that you place under your lip in your mouth

[prisma flume]

i mean smoking will also give you mouth cancer but this just adds all the lung cancer to the mouth cancer

great if you hate emphysema and teeth

[safe dragon]

actual tabacco not just nicotine pouches

[long verge]

It’s banned in a lot of countries tho isn’t it ?

[safe dragon]

and yeah it's popular in Sweden at least but I'd guess Norway too

[safe dragon]

yes including my own

🌈

use the combination of information I've given as you will

[steel kraken]

I've personally never seen the appeal of of smoking, but I'm also too autistic to care about peer pressure on anything vaguely important

[safe dragon]

Sweden is apparently the only country in the entire EU where snus is legal

[rain apex]

my dad smokes so i grew up hating it

it just smells really bad to me (and most ppl i think)

[safe dragon]

my dad smoked but quit when I was around 13 ish years old

smells vile yeah

the vapes if anything at least mean I no longer feel like I'm inhaling poison if I get caught in the smoke

[long verge]

Yeah smoking expensive chemicals that smells like horse shit in exchange of cancer isn’t very appealing to me neither

[prisma flume]

just because it's cinnamon-scented cute poison doesn't make it not poison

[steel kraken]

I can very easily see the appeal if you care about peer pressure as a rite of passage to be the cool kid or whatever

if theres going to be second hand smoke, I'd rather it be bubblegum or popcorn butter instead of traditional smoking.
though ofc no second hand smoke at all is ideal

[safe dragon]

it's actually illegal in the Netherlands to give vapes any flavor other than tabacco

[long verge]

Still waiting for France to ban smoking on café-terrasse

[rain apex]

theres this thing called areca nut that ppl in south asia chew

[prisma flume]

france? ban smoking? that'd be like australia banning drinking and gambling

[safe dragon]

which is why 90% of vapes are sold outside certified stores

[little furnace]

Of all the big legal (here) drugs (alcohol, cigarettes and cannabis) I understand cigarettes the least. The others at least actually do something other than kill you.

[rain apex]

its also addictive and cause mouth cancer

[prisma flume]

i'll never understand smoking. why pay for a miserable life and a slow death

[steel kraken]

(I despise alcohol just as much and is a larger health catastrophy, but society will riot if you try to touch it)

[long verge]

Actually they recently banned smoking around places with kids (school, bus stop, etc)

[safe dragon]

it's kind of baffling that we genuinely at one point thought that smoking was good for you. Like not just harmless, genuinely good for you.

My grandma was told by her doctor to smoke when she got pregnant

[cinder karma]

Modders are weird

[prisma flume]

when the tobacco giants are paying for the medical advice, what else can people think

[safe dragon]

my grandma thankfully was apparently ahead of medical science at the time and didn't trust that shit and quit smoking anyway

[devout vault]

what is this, objective C?

[steel kraken]

Math.atan2(y, x)

[prisma flume]

even in the last few years i've seen the australian government running adverts for the merits of coal fired energy on tv

[devout vault]

Wait that's the declaration

[safe dragon]

I'm surprised it's legal to advertise coal powered heating

[long verge]

Wait until you discover who the tobacco industry paid
(Former propaganda experts)

[cinder karma]

Lol

[prisma flume]

not heating. just coal. in general

[safe dragon]

yum, coal

[cinder karma]

I'm so sad that the FDA isnt even gonna consider the Moderna flu vaccine

God, that thing could have been a game changer

[long verge]

Coal before or after cereals ?

[safe dragon]

wait I just parsed that it's the government itself advertising coal

that's fucked

[prisma flume]

it's like that down under

[sand frost]

Nice bowl of coal for breakfast?

[long verge]

Australia economy rely on fossil energy

[sand frost]

But they have so much sun

[cinder karma]

Aussies have lifted their bank rate by a quarter point

[safe dragon]

solar would undeniably be massively beneficial to Australia yes

[prisma flume]

much like with tobacco, the fossil giants generate the public opinion

the public opinion must therefore be coal and not solar (dangerous, pollutative)

[safe dragon]

and gambling which is also big in parts of Australia

[prisma flume]

big in [...] australia

[long verge]

But the sun causes skin cancer !!!

[sand frost]

Coal hasn’t been financially advantageous in the US for like, idk, over a decade?? Setting aside all the other stuff

[safe dragon]

yeah

it's not about being the smart choice in any way

[sand frost]

Busbus

[prisma flume]

it's financially advantageous for australia in that the richest individuals in australia are rich because of coal

[long verge]

Ask Germany how they’re doing

[sand frost]

Australian bus?

[steel kraken]

qld is royally fucked by the fossil fuel companies

[safe dragon]

tf

being powered by natural gas is not a brag

[sand frost]

I actually understand the natural gas advertising if coal is the default

[prisma flume]

welcome to australia

[long verge]

But it’s ✨ natural ✨

[steel kraken]

it technically is cleaner than diesel as methane/lng is burns nicer. but by no means is it clean

[safe dragon]

I doubt they were running the buses on coal prior to this

I hope at least

[prisma flume]

oh it doesn't seem that farfetched

[little furnace]

It's cleaner than gasoline. They advertised it her as well.

[safe dragon]

that it is

kinda

the burning of it is

if you ignore the rampant issue of uncontrolled nearly undetectable gas leakages dumping methane straight into the air

[long verge]

Be Germany
Close nuclear facility
Re-open charcoal mines
Buy nuclear electricity to France

[prisma flume]

easily. we can easily ignore it

[cinder karma]

I learned smth fun the other day

St micro is a French conpany

[safe dragon]

you forgot the step where they announced a commitment to move towards clean energy mere months before closing all the nuclear power plants

[steel kraken]

nuclear is great but its hard to get public buy-in particularly when fukashima happened

[devout vault]

I mean, in a sense, nuclear is pretty dirty in some peoples minds. /s

[safe dragon]

thankfully Germany is not particularly known for tsunamis

[cinder karma]

What if we ignore the public

Jk jk

[steel kraken]

that and the secondary power plants to run on different designs that can run off the primary waste or produce less waste in general never took off

the main designs iirc are to complement nuclear weapon programs

[long verge]

Didn’t mention the part where they fucked up French electricity market with the help of the EU too

[prisma flume]

nuclear is surprisingly not that reviled in popular public opinion in australia. the coal barons largely aim at renewables instead given they're more realistic to the average person

anyone can hook up a solar panel. not anyone can buy a nuclear reactor

[steel kraken]

but nuclear is pretty much dead now anyway as the economics don't make sense anymore as solar and battery tech prices have plummeted

[little furnace]

Be Germany
Only have three parties getting more than 25%
Government is usually made up of not less than three parties (or the same two parties that have been in charge since forever and hate each other)
All of them fight with each other
Nothing changes
People are upset and vote for Neo-Nazis that have actually been proven to be unconstitutional

[cinder karma]

One reason why France has a strong internal IC design house is for the nuclear power plants

[safe dragon]

solar/wind + batteries is almost always the most sensible option at this point unless you happen to be somewhere where geothermal power is feasible

[sand frost]

Not with that attitude

I read an interesting article about plug in solar in the US recently

[steel kraken]

geothermal, hydroelectric are the ez winners still but are very geography dependant.

nuclear and coal both need to be on lakes/rivers for the water source.

solar can be placed anywhere

[long verge]

True.

[sand frost]

Apparently there’s a bit of a regulations debate around plug in solar (inverter directly back into the house circuit, as opposed to the grid)

[safe dragon]

hydroelectric has its issues mainly surrounding impact on ecosystems but it's something that can be made to work

[prisma flume]

tidal is interesting to me but probably the single most geographically restricted

[steel kraken]

Solar wins without consumers owning any of it.

industrial solar farms are still cheaper / more profitable than a greenfields coal or nuclear site

[sand frost]

My friend works on tidal energy

It seems to be low technology readiness level

[prisma flume]

surprised wind hasn't been mentioned. probably the biggest win for british power

[sand frost]

Not zero ready, but large scale idk

[cinder karma]

Hydro isnt useful as a source of energy basically anywhere but is a great peaker/storage

It's nice

[long verge]

I heard that tidal profitability is ass

[safe dragon]

I mentioned it

[cinder karma]

Bluebs yall could power thr country with the screams of people running away from spiders

[prisma flume]

i didn't read

[sand frost]

Hilariously my friend keeps getting sent to Hawaii for work “oh noooo I have to go to Hawaii again what a burden”

[safe dragon]

poor soul

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #7336 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1472393124121935992)

[long verge]

I tribute as a volonteer

[steel kraken]

Tasmania (tiny state island thing south of Australia) is pretty much entirely hydroelectric, and so ffor pretty much the entire 20th century was green the entire time and was one of the only sources of "green aluminium" iirc

but towards the 80's they ran out of dam locations and have plateaued and now need to import power from Victoria (which is mainly brown coal)

[long verge]

Does have impact on local fauna tho

[cinder karma]

Anyways

USpeople, dont forget to vote in the primaries

[prisma flume]

the alternatives generally have a far larger impact

[long verge]

But the birds :(((

[prisma flume]

nothing is without impact. it's just a matter of how much you get for the impact

[little furnace]

Skyscrapers are worse. Which is why I prefer downscrapers.

[long verge]

Read a paper that a company in building new blades that could prevents most of the bird deaths

[prisma flume]

they will make a fine impact on my glorious turbines

[safe dragon]

let's make wind turbines seethrough to really fuck up those birds

[hardy jewel]

rural australia is very largely against wind turbines

[steel kraken]

My preference on solar over wind is mainly that solar is solid state with no moving parts and so considerably less maintenance.

[cinder karma]

Solar and wind are extremely complimentary

I want both

[prisma flume]

there were plans in the works to install offshore wind turbines in our area, sub-rural but increasingly gentrified coast. obviously people opposed it

[long verge]

Also less ugly, and easier to include in urban area

[prisma flume]

honestly justified in some regards since this is a whale migration route

but i'm sure it's largely just out of nimbyism and coal centrism

[safe dragon]

wind is hated by a part of the Netherlands due to "horizonvervuiling" aka visual pollution aka "I don't like how they look"

it's a weirdly large group

[prisma flume]

i wonder if these people have ever seen a coal mine

[long verge]

Same in France

[cinder karma]

They're so pretty though :(

[steel kraken]

I used to go annually to a coal quarry / coal powerplant when growing up

[long verge]

I do slightly agree that wind turbines are ugly

[cinder karma]

I love how many are in rural Texas

[safe dragon]

even when I was a little kid I thought wind turbines looked so cool

[cinder karma]

Goes well with the cows

[prisma flume]

wind is in fact the sexiest source of energy

[long verge]

Hell nah

[cinder karma]

Solar is sex appeal

[little furnace]

But the sun is the hottest.

[safe dragon]

[prisma flume]

solar is very flat. wind turbines have curves

[long verge]

Dam would like to have a word

[prisma flume]

very sleek

[steel kraken]

Aesthetics I love solar and in particular you can still do stuff like lifestock or agriculture under it and be mostly fine

[hardy jewel]

our thing is that wind companies really enjoy cutting down very old rainforests and other things for the turbines and that we are very protective over our wildlife

and thus pretty much every area out here is in a multi year long battle against said companies

[cinder karma]

You know what is also very cute? Voting

[steel kraken]

and for the US you have zero excuses for land use because converting corn into fuel to power cars is a comical meme and needs to stop

[safe dragon]

dude Australia is like 90% barren why u cutting down the forest

smh

[prisma flume]

i simply can't imagine why our real estate developers have no trouble clear-cutting coastal woodland for estates and hotels then

just can't think why

[cinder karma]

One of my favorite stupid things is that Texas leads the nation in renewable installations

Lol.

[safe dragon]

reminds me of some Dutch politicians who seemingly keep getting permits to build homes inside protected forests

[cinder karma]

This is what happens when you let people do things

[steel kraken]

texas barely has an electrical grid so I can see why people want backups

[cinder karma]

They're everywhere now

Wind power is a grid thing, they're massive

[long verge]

Texas is the last state I would imagine going for renewable energy

[safe dragon]

isn't the US electrical grid in general practically at the brink of collapse

[cinder karma]

Pairs well with the cows!

[prisma flume]

i think texas was the state that had total regional power outages for the last two winters

[steel kraken]

the US electrical grid is struggling to keep up because getting landuse permits for new transmission lines is a bitch

[long verge]

No hate Texas I just see you guys as old slightly racist cowboys shooting guns everyday ✌️ /j

[hardy jewel]

nobody lives out there smh

[steel kraken]

winters and summer heat waves iirc

[safe dragon]

it's ok solar panels don't need inhabitants

I'm not telling u to put them in the middle of the outback 6 hours from civilization

[steel kraken]

you get into rural obscurity within a 2 hour drive of the centre of the city

unless its camberra then its a 5 minute walk

[safe dragon]

why is Canberra the capital anyway

[steel kraken]

same reason DC is a thing

[cinder karma]

Colonialism?

(DC was a compromise)

[hardy jewel]

anywhere outside the big glowspots is rural

[steel kraken]

states came together and neither victoria nor NSW wanted the other to be the capital and were roughly equal in population so put the capital between them

[long verge]

So much potential for a huge Walmart and parking lots

[rain apex]

why did char colony drop sydney instead of here

[cinder karma]

This is not a good week to look at it (it is perfect weather today) but here is spare capacity

Not bad.

[safe dragon]

regardless, if the Netherlands can figure out where to put solar panels and wind turbines I think Australia shouldn't have any issues

[cinder karma]

Got a 33% margin there

[prisma flume]

if the zeon federation colony dropped melbourne i'd cheer

[steel kraken]

Australian history is one of multiple independent colonies.

sydney was just the first

[cinder karma]

Nice! 47% wind

[prisma flume]

where is this

[cinder karma]

Texas.

[prisma flume]

wow. had no idea texas had so much wind

[rain apex]

what is more wrong with melbourne

[prisma flume]

i would've thought given the generalisation of flat prairie it would've been ideal for solar

[cinder karma]

It's a bit deceptive...right now the weather is perfect

[safe dragon]

I'm reminded of the funky fun fact from the technology connections video I had literally never heard of which was how much land is being used to cultivate corn to then throw into gasoline

[steel kraken]

Victoria / Melbourne had a money advantage of the multiple gold rushes, while Sydney afaik is mainly inherited wealth of existing rich people moving over.

[cinder karma]

=no hvac

=lower than usual demand

[cinder karma]

Windmills go better with the cattle

[safe dragon]

what if the cow flies into the blades

[steel kraken]

but solar gives cattle shade

[safe dragon]

but it'd also give the grass shade...

[steel kraken]

theres enough gaps between the solar panels that the grass is fine

[long verge]

How much CO2/kWh does that represent ?

[safe dragon]

12

[steel kraken]

one of the few maintenance costs of solar farms is having to go occasionally mow the grass under them

[safe dragon]

idk

and dust em off

[long verge]

Not bad if real

[safe dragon]

not real

[long verge]

Mod, he’s spreading misinformation online

[hardy jewel]

sorry, I'll get rid of him

[safe dragon]

finally

[hardy jewel]

[prisma flume]

crumbledore, phd. in deception

international man of misinformation

[long verge]

China has self-cleaning solar panels

[safe dragon]

do they have window wipers

[rain apex]

i like the salt tower things

[prisma flume]

a goat wrote this message

[long verge]

[rain apex]

magic circle

[rain apex]

i think a goat would become very cooked if they licked the salt

[prisma flume]

an honourable end

[long verge]

Bet the meat will be tastier

Good night everyone

[steel kraken]

I think those forms of concentrated solar famrs are dying out as just spamming conventional panels in a field is easier

they made sense when the solar cells were the cost prohibitive part

[cinder karma]

That's the job of goat

[prisma flume]

a goat also wrote this message

[devout vault]

Are the goats having employment issues enough to need to post on discord saying more people should hire goats?

[cinder karma]

Apparently

For 2024

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/texas/

I will say the spot mix is a bit misleading

(Ie, there is currently no solar because it's night, it's a week with very low demand so less natural gas.)

[steel kraken]

honestly more solar than I was expecting

[cinder karma]

Thousands of MW is such a weird unit ngl

[pliant snow]

That's fair. We shall use millions of kW instead

[cinder karma]

Plz observe the scale to the right

I wonder if solar counts residential solar

[cinder karma]

129

[sand frost]

fruit fly > zebrafish very relatable, i did that first go

also river dolphin > pink dolphin

also i can't believe termite replaces cockroach

and that hobbit is accepted lol

[cinder karma]

it's a hominid!

[sand frost]

yeees...in lotr

[cinder karma]

I tried for two other homimids and can't spell!

[sand frost]

yeah i couldn't spell helmenthes

[prisma flume]

i'm sorry i could've continued bobbit into hobbit

[cinder karma]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis

[sand frost]

in fact i still cannot spell the worms

[cinder karma]

oh I forgot bobbit worm

[sand frost]

i gave up and went for flat worm, round worm, etc

[cinder karma]

and I like how I list multiple sharks and ended up with "bat"

[sand frost]

i am not well-versed in the worms

[prisma flume]

i think i had earthworm, hookworm, tapeworm, hammerhead worm, and bobbit worm

[cinder karma]

lol, I have "earthworm" and "tapeworm" iirc

i forgot hookworm!

[prisma flume]

i also had to try ringworm just to see and there is a unique text for that

[sand frost]

at some point i had to memorize all the phylums i think??? for class

also the ones under chordata

[cinder karma]

SAME

[sand frost]

this was a long time ago tho

[cinder karma]

yeah

[sand frost]

so i'm great at the 5-sided thingums

[cinder karma]

lets see

[sand frost]

that's my favorite

[cinder karma]

other places

1. vague memories of fish from stardew

2. vague memories of fish from the grocery store

[prisma flume]

surprisingly i've never had to memorise every worm. don't know how i even have a degree

[sand frost]

i also did the "look around the room" trick for my stuffed animals

[prisma flume]

pentagons 🙂‍↕️

[cinder karma]

3. Putting random colors in front of animals (ie "golden frog" and "golden toad")

[sand frost]

and "recite the zodiac animals in chinese"

[prisma flume]

shoutout to golden pheasant

distinct from pheasant

[sand frost]

yes them water pentagons

[cinder karma]

adding "artic" in front of things

[sand frost]

golden eagle

[cinder karma]

adding "sea" in front of things

[sand frost]

a real eagle!

[cinder karma]

it is! one of my favs

[sand frost]

yeah, sea horse, sea otter, sea cucumber, sea squirt

[cinder karma]

ice fish!

[prisma flume]

sea cow!!

[sand frost]

i also went with "things i'm allergic to"

and "things i like to eat"

[cinder karma]

oh I forgot manatees

poor manatees

[sand frost]

i'm pretty good at cephalopods and molluscs

[prisma flume]

kebab animal ✅

[cinder karma]

the difference between "the try when I just tried from memory" and "the try when I allowed myself to google to check for spelling" was like, 71 different

[prisma flume]

i should give it a second try and see if i remember half the things we've written down

but not now 🙂‍↕️

[cinder karma]

Like, I failed to spell "nautilus" multiple times

[sand frost]

my husband keeps telling me "przowski's horse" but i really cannot spell it

[prisma flume]

i bet the game will be very impressed when i write diatome

[cinder karma]

it also gave me "trilobite"

[sand frost]

i can't spell most dinos

[cinder karma]

I can't either lol

[sand frost]

archaeoptryx

[prisma flume]

isn't it pteryx

[cinder karma]

I even took a class on ancient hominids once.

also, I really should have done better than literally just "bats" and "ladybug" but I really blanked out on the bugs after it told me termites were cockroaches

uh....cicada.

[prisma flume]

i was in that class!

[sand frost]

maaaybe

[prisma flume]

third last slide

early upright hominid

honestly i just tried remembering whatever was on my bugs spritesheet for sdv

and like 5 kinds of ants

[cinder karma]

I went "diptera" no you alredy have fruit flies idiot what about "hemiptera" fuck I forgot what's in that

[sand frost]

i know there's like 12 million types of bugs but unfortunately i do not know their names

[prisma flume]

there are many animals i couldve guessed in the time it took to write raspberry crazy ant

[sand frost]

i managed "leafcutter ant"

mentally walking through all the zoos i've ever been to

[cinder karma]

oh I forgot those too

I also got just "dragonflies"

[prisma flume]

red ant, fire ant, soldier ant, bullet ant, leafcutter ant, crazy ant

[sand frost]

heck if i know any dragonflies personally

[cinder karma]

and my knowledge of amphibians is laughable.

[sand frost]

it helps i have not been bit by very many ants, so i do not need to know their names

[prisma flume]

i know a couple of dragonflies personally. great guys

[cinder karma]

I still think just "bats" was pretty bad tbh

1/5th of all mammals, seriously, atra?

[prisma flume]

i think i managed vampire bat/fruit bat/giant bar

[cinder karma]

fruit bats, vampire bat, brown bat

oh, giant bats are spooky

Guardian's of Ga'hoole got me a few owl species

[sand frost]

pipistrelles

good name

i did manage a few owls

but only like 3 and i know there's more

[prisma flume]

i just want to know how well our resident #progo veterinarian would do on the animal quiz

[cinder karma]

it also didn't accept boxing crab :(

[prisma flume]

i think i had swimmer/spanner/green crab and that was all

[cinder karma]

https://ocean.si.edu/ocean-life/invertebrates/boxing-crab

I don't think I managed a single true crab, I got horseshoe crab, coconut crab, and hermit crab

[prisma flume]

aaah wtf how did i forget coconut crabs. i was thinking about them the very same day

as one does

[worn remnant]

i'm not planning to play the game but i am currently thinking about the mantis shrimp

[prisma flume]

this is the only game that actively rewards you for thinking about the mantis shrimp

[cinder karma]

Mantis
Shrimp
Mantis shrimp

[worn remnant]

but only once, right? every time after that you are punished

[prisma flume]

like a mantis shrimp, you are capable of producing a single point of intense heat and power.

unlike a mantis shrimp, you can get more points if you name a lot of squirrels

[sand frost]

oh wow i didn't even think of mantis from mantis shrimp

i did get it but totally separately

mantis shrimp is the only kind of shrimp i know besides "normal"

i tried "gulf shrimp" and apparently that's not it

wikipedia says:

Shrimp vis-à-vis prawn
😂

"fleshy prawn" sure is a name

i had previously just assumed shrimp is shrimp, i can't eat so why do i care?

there's a shrimp known as: Atlantic white shrimp, white shrimp, gray shrimp, lake shrimp, green shrimp, green-tailed shrimp, blue-tailed shrimp, rainbow shrimp, Daytona shrimp, Mayport Shrimp, common shrimp, southern shrimp

how can this shrimp be so many colors??

[pallid yarrow]

hello

[prisma flume]

hi, just to be clear the moderators will jump on you if you just spam chat channels for xp

[pallid yarrow]

ok i was just checking all chats to see if i could start a conversion that is why i only said it once but i will just stick to voice chat 1 and2

[long verge]

https://x.com/forloopcodes/status/2022898828828119085?s=46

forloop (reze arc) (@forloopcodes)

microsoft just released a security patch that deletes your internet!!!

the dhcp client service is functionally dead because they forgot how dll exports work. the os literally telling you it has lost the will to live

the only way to save your pc from kb5077181 is to delete the

X · Feb 15, 2026, 5:00 AM

Microsoft strikes again

[cyan shadow]

Idk how it happened but my bluetooth fully stopped working for a few days

Like
The ability to connect or pair devices fucking vanished

[safe dragon]

after the windows update yesterday my internet has been misbehaving a lot on my work laptop

I couldn't connect to the local network via ethernet at work for a few hours at all

[cinder karma]

Blind shrimp!

[cyan shadow]

Do you mean the 25H blablabla one or a different one

[cinder karma]

https://youtu.be/7mdvEtmo1pM?si=hq_LzlllCmcIYdtc

[safe dragon]

idk my work pc yelled at me to restart for a windows update and then I did

[cinder karma]

I just love how engineered the Niagara Falls is

And how it's shut in half at night

And there is a treaty over it

[dusty pollen]

I mean it is a border iirc?

[cinder karma]

Niagara Falls Municipal History - The 1950 Niagara River Water Diversion Treaty - Niagara Falls Canada, Niagara Falls USA https://share.google/4cdAru1PSPAMKbhaO

[devout vault]

I would ask “how did they forget that, in an OS??????” but given how much MS pushes AI…

[safe dragon]

I'm honestly increasingly convinced windows actually doesn't have an automated testsuite

back when localhost broke in one of the beta updates

like surely you have a test suite that relies on localhost working at least

[crystal wren]

I mean how else would such a simple thing not be immediately identified?

[devout vault]

By pushing the release while ignoring the test results. Perhaps they even trusted AI to check them!

[cinder karma]

Anyways

Let's all believe in Linux

[long verge]

I use arch btw

[devout vault]

Hmm. Should I pretend I'll actually get a game jam game made?
https://itch.io/jam/brackeys-15

[cinder karma]

Definitely

[devout vault]

Surely the two already-made submissions (both by the same person) don't break the "No AI-generated content" rule. (Not posting images because server rules, but one literally has AI in the name and says it's a AI powered assistant)

They both have the "No AI" tag, after all. And they're both submitted to 15 jams! Wow, what an efficient author!

[safe dragon]

I see nothing fishy here

Just a 10x developer

[sand frost]

Yes

[devout vault]

But then I have to come up with an idea I like

[long verge]

Yessir

[sand frost]

You have a little bit of time

Make something Kirby themed but not Kirby? 😛

[devout vault]

But if it's not kirby then the fun-ness factor is reduced 😔

[cinder karma]

https://enclose.horse/

[devout vault]

I do have a "kirby fan game" idea in my repository of rambling, but not sure if its game jam sized

However I could just be working on stardew3d instead...

[prisma flume]

cute article with some light info on older processor optimisations for asm instructions between different standards. i do love me some quake
https://fabiensanglard.net/quake_asm_optimizations/index.html

[devout vault]

"some light info" about <thing which sounds incredibly dense no matter how you spin it>

[prisma flume]

i could've sworn i disabled win11 force-restarting your pc without asking to close all your tasks and install updates

i was also very sure i disabled discord hardware acceleration because win11 inexplicably turns on pro-epilepsy mode and flashes the screen black whenever it's drawn

[prisma flume]

ah but it is light, just a snack even for idiots like me who never considered running cycle-light instructions while the heavier instructions are still being processed on the same data

[austere comet]

Bold of you to assume win11 actually respects your settings

[prisma flume]

i'm sure this was revenge for going into gpedit to turn off more bullshit

[cinder karma]

Arch

[rain apex]

btw

[cinder karma]

I dont even use arch lol

My main PC is still windows and all she does is check email so I'm happy

[prisma flume]

a fine seafarin' vessel she be

portholes 11

[pliant snow]

Trying to delete 58600 lines of code in a commit, let's see if it goes through

[safe dragon]

lgtm

[red crest]

Question for the more knowledgeable C# people here:
Is doing if (thing is Type type) a significantly more costly thing than if (thing.GetType() == typeof(Type))? Or are they basically equivalent and not worth worrying about. I don't know how these sorts of type checks work under the hood.

[cinder karma]

The first is significantly cheaper than the second iirc

They arent equivalent

[red crest]

The first is cheaper?

That's the opposite of what I woulda guessed, huh

[safe dragon]

if they don't just get compiled to the same thing I'd definitely expect if (thing is Type) to be faster

with the actual cast variable if you actually need it but you're not doing in the other one so I'm assuming you don't

[pliant snow]

I know in Python the is one is much cheaper, I would assume it's the same case in C#

[red crest]

I just assumed it'd be more expensive to check if something is Thing or any one of its Super Things than just one specific check for an exact type of Thing, but I wasn't able to find a clear answer when googling because I don't think my google fu was strong enough here to know what to look for

[safe dragon]

can't say I've tested it with some massive nest of 300 inheritance layers

I'd be terrified to see that class though

it'd take a lot to beat if (thing is Type) though

[red crest]

Does that change if I do need the cast variable

Or did you just mean it leans even more heavily in pattern matchings favour if I did

[pliant snow]

If you're checking whether or not to cast, is it faster to just always cast and hope the compiler knows to do nothing if it's already the right type

[red crest]

Praise be to the compiler
Thank you all then I am glad I asked

[cinder karma]

Actually I might be wrong, looks like dotnet put a lot of work into GetType

I'm in compiler explorer

Tl;dr bench it next time, atra

It's a real clean simple cmp

godbolt.org/z/PheYzbEbj

[red crest]

is_A_2 and is_B_2 seems different between .NET 10 and .NET 6 though but I don't know enough to know the significance of the differences

[safe dragon]

I'm trying to benchmark shit but rider is shitting the bed

wtf is going on it has a nuget package it tells me it can't find but I can't delete it either

prayin a rider update works

[steel kraken]

looking at the difference in IL between input is A inputA and input as A the cast doesn't even show up in IL its just type safety

[safe dragon]

it didn't work imma cry

wtf is rider doing

[dusty pollen]

unrelated but being a tech nerd sometimes means using a script to replace the s key with windows+d when you break your keyboard. ask me how I know

[safe dragon]

wtf is Microsoft.DotNet.ILCompiler and why does rider complain it doesn't exist and why can't I uninstall it

[devout vault]

how do you know? /s

[cinder karma]

Crumble just use linqpad

[safe dragon]

Unable to find package runtime.arch-x64.Microsoft.DotNet.ILCompiler. No packages exist with this id in source(s): /usr/share/dotnet/library-packs, nuget.org

wtf is going on

[devout vault]

Is that actually broke or just missing the keycap

[safe dragon]

what are you doing

I'm trying to just delete a fuckin package

[dusty pollen]

keycap broke

[cinder karma]

Hebrew !!!

[devout vault]

So the key isn't broken, so who needs script? /s

[dusty pollen]

and can't type without it because the rubber thing falls out

replacement should be arriving in a couple of days

[safe dragon]

I genuinely have no idea what's going on

[red crest]

dotnet is resisting your attempts at calculating its inefficiencies

[safe dragon]

ok but like does anyone have any idea what might be going on

I'd like some help

[dusty pollen]

I do not but I wish you luck fighting rider

[red crest]

I unfortunately don't the only troubleshooting step I really know for Rider/.NET/Nuget weirdness is a package restore or whatever

[safe dragon]

there isn't even a nupkg file where on earht is it getting some random ass package called ILCompiler

I don't even know what that is

I mean it exists https://www.nuget.org/packages/Microsoft.DotNet.ILCompiler/

[red crest]

I've got one of those in my packages folder

[safe dragon]

but why

Unable to find package runtime.arch-x64.Microsoft.DotNet.ILCompiler. No packages exist with this id in source(s): /usr/share/dotnet/library-packs, nuget.org

[red crest]

And a force restore from Rider doesn't do anythng?

[safe dragon]

nope

I can't install any other package either cause it'll complain about this one

man I never use rider so idk what it's doing

[red crest]

Did your nuget sources get messed up by somethin maybe

and it no longer even knows to look at api.nuget.org

[safe dragon]

it finds packages just fine

[red crest]

I've got nothin then

[safe dragon]

not the ILCompiler one whatever that is though

[little furnace]

Can you delete the package from cache and manifests?

Or use command line?

[safe dragon]

No packages exist with this id in source(s): /usr/share/dotnet/library-packs
I mean it's correct

that random ass folder does not contain it

but idk if it should've or why

but I do have the sdk...

well ok I switched the project back to dotnet 9 and that worked?

well alright I guess I'm banned from .net 10

[little furnace]

If you switch back now, what happens?

[safe dragon]

same issue

I'm seeing my benchmark isn't very good regardless

interesting thing actually

it turned object is Type into a simple null check in the compilation

it's not doing any type comparison at all

alright I worked around it doing that optimization

oh is has a dedicated IL instruction

[cinder karma]

Yes

Which is why i thought it would be faster definitely lol

It doesnt need actually reflecting

[safe dragon]

it's so fast it's hard to benchmark

[steel kraken]

finally got benchmarkdotnet happy

[prisma flume]

a heyboard....

[safe dragon]

so far my testing seems to suggest it genuinely does not matter which you use

without actually casting anyway

[red crest]

What a wonderful bit of nerdsniping, I got 3 people this time

[steel kraken]

im very surprised by my results so far

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #7354 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1473086441667039263)

[red crest]

(I'm very appreciative of it too since I'm unable to do any benchmarking myself atm)

[safe dragon]

your benchmark is definitely more set up to avoid .net optimizing something it shouldn't

[steel kraken]

it took like 30min to realize benchmarkdotnet was ignoring me as I didn't give it arguments

so far, what I can tell is that is A and as A is actully more efficient if you pass in B

its slower if you give it A

(in .NET 6)

[cinder karma]

What's the tree?

[steel kraken]

still running the B suite but mostly got the data I care about

[prisma flume]

dare i ask about is not and pattern-matching is A or B and is int i and > 0 or <= 5

[steel kraken]

the operation count difference between passing in A,B and "Hi" are crazy

[red crest]

I wonder if pattern matching can correctly short circuit if it determines that it is not A and thus cannot be B if B is A

assuming A is super of B

[safe dragon]

unlike Sinz I'm getting the lamest results

[steel kraken]

full results, will run again in .NET 10

[red crest]

I think I'd only be disappointed if the results were much better in . NET 10 since I can't use it /hj

[safe dragon]

I think so far my results will be "it's all the same"

[cinder karma]

That's drastic wow

[steel kraken]

I do have working SMAPI builds for .NET 10 what are you talking about 😛

[cinder karma]

Tbh I expected it from the disassembled code

[red crest]

I will use them once they become official SMAPI builds!

[steel kraken]

h o l y fuck

[cinder karma]

The lack of a call

Yeah,

[safe dragon]

SinZ is getting all the fun results while mine is just nothing of note

[steel kraken]

soz not soz

[safe dragon]

I'm just doing the is Type vs GetType() == typeof returning the boolean with no casts

[red crest]

Am I misreading the results or is that showing then that GetType is much better
(Atra why did you name your original functions so confusingly)

[safe dragon]

why is 2 below 3 for A

[steel kraken]

in .NET 6 GetType() is orders of magnitude better yes, and is A a and as A are the same

3 is the one I added which wasn't part of atras original tests and I added it after A before realizing there was a 2 and renamed it but not moved it

[safe dragon]

hrm

typeof outperforms is

[devout vault]

I'm doubtful that'll happen. 😔

[steel kraken]

the only compat issues I ran into, Pathos almost ran into in .NET 6 anyway with the harmony version bump

[devout vault]

I'm intrigued by it for the sake of stardew3d if the performance gain was good, but that's adding a huge installation hurdle compared to normal mods

It would however have the benefit of (assuming I did made a separate instance entirely, not simply update the current one) making it so people could easily keep a stardew3d instance separate from normal modded

[steel kraken]

my initial benchmarks of .NET 10 for smapi was minutes faster in loading CP packs

[cinder karma]

GetType is much better

[safe dragon]

I wonder why typeof is faster when it has a callvirt and 2 calls

[cinder karma]

I'm surprised too

[devout vault]

And another reason I'm intrigued is because of the existence of https://github.com/MonoGame/MonoGame/pull/7533

(specifically, the Indirect Drawing)

[red crest]

"minutes faster" sounds very nice to me when my original reason for asking about this in the first place was for my CP alternative

[cinder karma]

Because there are no calls in the assembly

[red crest]

so the benefits of such an upgrade so sound very relevant

[devout vault]

Stardew3d's motto is "Not compatible with anything!", so I don't have to care about that 😌

[safe dragon]

is vs GetType
Like me reading this would've totally thought is would be faster but it's just not

[prisma flume]

i'm sure someone confidently posited that is was the more performant option

[safe dragon]

me

[prisma flume]

maybe a lot of someones

[safe dragon]

I'm very confused by these results frankly

[steel kraken]

both JIT and AOT very much seem to special case gettype to do magic with the actual memory layout

[red crest]

Let it be known that me, clueless Button, was the most correct assumer of them all initially 😌

[safe dragon]

but I guess this once again shows "benchmark, don't assume"

[prisma flume]

did we learn nothing from the article on quake about the number of instructions not necessarily determining the cycle count...

[safe dragon]

but calls are expensive operations!

[red crest]

(also I know it's not directly relevant but I had no idea ldtoken was a thing what is that even normally used for)

[devout vault]

I would've assumed so too. But a 100% equivalent test case would be meow.GetType().IsAssignableTo( typeof( A ) ) (though IGet thtat that's not relevant to the original use case)

[safe dragon]

IsAssignableTo has to be slower or I'm going to lose my mind

[red crest]

I forgot about IsAssignableTo

[steel kraken]

in aot it becomes

Program:is_A(Object):A:this:
       push     rax
       mov      rdi, 0xD1FFAB1E      ; A
       call     CORINFO_HELP_ISINSTANCEOFCLASS
       nop      
       add      rsp, 8
       ret      

Program:is_A_2(Object):Object:this:
       mov      rax, 0xD1FFAB1E      ; A
       cmp      qword ptr [rsi], rax
       jne      SHORT G_M36282_IG05
       mov      rax, rsi
       ret      
G_M36282_IG05:
       xor      rax, rax
       ret    

so the as A becomes a call, but GetType() == typeof() has no calls

[devout vault]

My favorite (not from your article that I didn't read) is how a mathematically faster algorithm (O(n) etc.) can actually be slower than alternatives, thanks to CPU memory caches and stuff

[steel kraken]

.NET 10 results

[devout vault]

(From a link atra shared at some point in the distant past)

[steel kraken]

and yes .NET 10 is 100x faster for as A

[prisma flume]

1.5ns to 0.2ns. good lord

[cinder karma]

Cmp, babyyyyy

[prisma flume]

now i understand the h o l y fuck

hey pathos i have a small request for 1.7

[cinder karma]

Doesn't even have a jmp

[red crest]

So how about that net10 SMAPI

[devout vault]

holy macaroni, what?????

[red crest]

It's amusing to me that the results graph can be empty

[steel kraken]

turns out 4 years of development is a good thing

[devout vault]

do time per SDV.Game1._update next

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #7356 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1473093544544567468)

[safe dragon]

that's wild

[devout vault]

Can't wait to use this quote next time people complain about <X> game being delayed

[prisma flume]

is it 100x faster? yes. what did it cost you? windows 7 users

[red crest]

This is why blueberry's mods always come out nice

[safe dragon]

0 ns should be effectively impossible right?

it claims it did operations

[prisma flume]

bold of you to say my mods come out

[red crest]

It hasn't been 4 years since I've seen that boat cutscene you made yet

[steel kraken]

I think its just too little work for benchmarkdotnet to actually track it unless I do stuff I don't understand

[red crest]

There's time

[prisma flume]

button that mod started in 2019

it's still going

[red crest]

Timer doesn't start till I'm aware of it

[prisma flume]

a very novel way of benchmarking

[red crest]

Thank you, I appreciate that

[steel kraken]

It does have a "measuring overhead" section due to the ArgumentSource stuff, so it could be that it overcorrected a bit

[cinder karma]

It's also switched out a branch to a cmp

[red crest]

I'm upgrading this from /hj to /gen

[devout vault]

Yeah if it was only like 2x or 3x that'd be /hj

[prisma flume]

that said i did just add a location, visual theme, feature, and script i've been wanting for like a few years so we're approximately one half-life closer to completion

[safe dragon]

ok I added an IsAssignableTo

[red crest]

Well now you're just getting too on topic /j

(Proud of you though)

[devout vault]

I assume you don't have a secret crime thread

[rain apex]

blueberry wheres the bug mod

[red crest]

Chu's here! Time to ask chu for their favorite method of type checking

[prisma flume]

unfortunately since the pattern-matching question was resolved earlier i'm going to have to ask you to move to #making-mods-general to mention my mods

[steel kraken]

You are being baited into on-topic conversations

[devout vault]

No! Not the channel I have muted!

[rain apex]

is there a kind other than thing is Bug bug

[red crest]

I don't have any other good nerdsniping questions for today I have to make dinner instead

[safe dragon]

GetType() winning still bothers me

[red crest]

oh buddy let me tell you

[prisma flume]

nobody even tested or smh

[rain apex]

<- completely didnt read anything

[safe dragon]

smh fool that's slower!

[red crest]

#TeamGetType()

[prisma flume]

unfortunately sugar makes you fat, and c# syntactic sugar runs quite slow indeed

[steel kraken]

GetType() still wins, but is much less of a deal than before.
so its mainly a case of "Do you care about exact type" vs allow inheritance

[rain apex]

idk why i should care about benchmarks in version of .net i dont use

[red crest]

Crumble said they added IsAssignableTo but I didn't see any results for that

[safe dragon]

if your results are true you'd need to do some absolutely bizarre ridiculous amount of these comparisons for it to even be measurable in even an extremely hot path

[red crest]

Well it's much better in net6 too

[safe dragon]

cause the benchmarks are still running

[prisma flume]

of course i'm not about to stop using is A a or B b and not C and b is > 0 and a is constant

[steel kraken]

its totally not propaganda for me wanting to run SMAPI on .NET 10

[cinder karma]

Now Sinz I wanna see AoT

[safe dragon]

ok good news

[cinder karma]

Thank God

Thank. God.

I'm insane but not that insane show me the disassemble

[red crest]

I guess I should go rip out those IsAssignableTo's I'm using that I took from Pathos

[safe dragon]

this is the AssignableTo one, the others I showed earlier

[steel kraken]

I have no idea how to have benchmarkdotnet / linqpad to do AoT, you will need to nerdsnipe yourself to go further.
but the AOT ASM I got early was from your original godbolt link

[devout vault]

I would love this but would not envy Pathos and support issues

[steel kraken]

the installer I haven't solved, and I still have some unresolved TODOs for macos

[red crest]

There would be so many support issues unless the SMAPI installer itself gave you net10

[cinder karma]

No one cares about macos

[steel kraken]

It would be a self contained .NET10 install

[rain apex]

hm but wouldn't i still have to Bug bug = thing to actually use thing as bug

[red crest]

Oh, well then, ship it I say

[steel kraken]

and maybe AOT trim the installer to make it slightly smaller?

[red crest]

Yeah but what if I just wanna skip certain types

[prisma flume]

we're already bundling harmony and newtonsoft. what's .net 10 if not anothre bundle

[cinder karma]

Oh god

[steel kraken]

smapi itself cant risk trimming due to needing everything available for mods

[cinder karma]

SinZ what about net 11

[red crest]

Also I think if I just did (Bug)thing that'd be fine too

[safe dragon]

I like how I'm measuring this when my actual work code runtime is like 99% database call overhead

[prisma flume]

i hate to tell you but that is also the same mod

they are all the same mod

[rain apex]

yea i mean more like is GetType still wining if a cast is unavoidable

[devout vault]

Fun fact, Magic + Bug Net + Cobalt + some others used to use this same approach

[red crest]

Did you see how much faster it was

[steel kraken]

note in my benchmark, it benchmarked both cast and no cast

[rain apex]

no i have no idea which number to read

[prisma flume]

you and i. we are the same

[rain apex]

i just came here to bully blueberry about The Mod ok

[steel kraken]

is_A rows are no cast
is_A3 is with cast
is_A2 is the typeof

[red crest]

Imagine a big bar for is. Now imagine a small bar for GetType

[safe dragon]

at this point I'm just glad IsAssignableTo didn't just make me question everything I've ever known and magically outpeform is too

[devout vault]

(also MMR is kinda similar, if it ever gets made)

[cinder karma]

No, as is a cast

[steel kraken]

ah right as an expression rather than making a variable reference

[prisma flume]

(matchmaking ranking?)

[devout vault]

(Moon Misadventures Redux. The one mod not on my public github)

[cinder karma]

Measles, mumps, amd rubella

[rain apex]

skyfarm when

[cinder karma]

(Sorry, casey)

[devout vault]

(hitting critical mass of on-topic-ness)

[devout vault]

skyfarm when, indeed

and cave farm

and roguelike mode

[cinder karma]

I also thought rsv was respiratory that word I can't spell virus

[prisma flume]

super. respiratory super virus

[devout vault]

(If I go in there I have to answer my pending 4 pings)

[cinder karma]

Syncitial or smth

[terse galleon]

good news, one of them got never minded, so you're down to 3 lol

[devout vault]

oh no, one of the pingers is typing

[cinder karma]

The word that means merging cells together

Quick, casey, distract everyone with cat pictures

[prisma flume]

grumble grumble cant believe cats are ontopic but bugs arent. bugs are the most programming

[devout vault]

Cat is not within picture range 😔

[rain apex]

what about the thing pathos likes to use

if (location is BusStop { Name: "BusStop" })

[red crest]

I think you're supposed to have as little Bug as possible when programming but maybe I just don't code like you bluebs

[rain apex]

or continuing bug

[little furnace]

Cat for off-topic-mess.

[rain apex]

if (thing is Bug { Kind: "Cockroach" })

[cinder karma]

Oh god

[red crest]

I would assume that would be the same as doing the type check followed by checking the value of the field but IDK

[steel kraken]

if I'm reading the .NET 11 preview notes, it looks like they are working on getting CoreCLR to work in places with no JIT (wasm / ios)

[devout vault]

Isn't that what AOT is supposed to be for?

Like, that'd mean a pure-interpreted route instead, right? That sounds slowwwww

[steel kraken]

probably but not everything is able to be AOT

also more de-virtualization is on the table

[cinder karma]

Look at the decompile

Or the net 1 lowered variant

[red crest]

I don't wanna look at the decompile I wanna eat my pasta

[cinder karma]

Smh do u not look at decompile for fun

[devout vault]

do you

(currently, not in the past)

[cinder karma]

I just did lol

[rain apex]

is there spagetti sauce inside

[cinder karma]

Except using compiler explorer because work machine

[devout vault]

Atra returns to modding arc?

[red crest]

No I don't prefer red sauce pastas

[cinder karma]

Absolutely not

[red crest]

If there was alfredo in the decompile I'd take a look

[prisma flume]

you and i are not the same.

[steel kraken]

the Class A secretly stands for alfredo

[red crest]

I'm just throwing people off our trail

[cinder karma]

(I do not have the heart and soul of a game developer. Lol)

[prisma flume]

naturally, class B is bolognese

[red crest]

Alfredo
Balfredo : Alfredo

[cinder karma]

Never did, never will

[cinder karma]

Thanks I hate it

[rain apex]

the only not tomato pasta i eat is carbonara

[red crest]

You're welcome!