programmers-off-topic

[devout vault]

...is that considered old now?

[hushed raven]

i also remember that, i dont wanna be old ;_;

[safe dragon]

technically atra didn't say that was old. Just that they remember being the age when that was the case

could be last year

I remember being 27

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6805 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1448827691343155230)

[steel kraken]

well google used to literally have "dont be evil" in their thingy which got dropped when they restructured to be Alphabet

[cinder karma]

I thought i had a coupon for a free smoothie and I dont so now I'm sad

[prisma flume]

i don't get why people are hung up on this. it's a tagline at best. it's as legally binding as the whole 'protect and serve' branding on some american police cars. it's a tech company and they were hardly a bastion of goodwill even before creating a super corporation

[cinder karma]

I do have a coupon for pizza but it isnt nearly as good

[fleet wren]

blend that pizza
pizza smoothie

[cinder karma]

Ew

[red crest]

i dont think people take "dont be evil" as a legally binding thing. just a strange thing to make a conscious decision to remove. even more so if it it truly doesnt affect anything

[safe dragon]

it just kinda feels like someone read that and was like "wait but we do want to be evil I don't vibe with this"

and got it removed

more realistically was probably removed just because it doesn't sound "professional"

cause corporate people are lame

[devout vault]

See also: the homogenization of all their app icons

[cinder karma]

Anyways when I was young Gmail was revolutionary

Smh

The heck is setjmp/longjump

setjmp.h - Wikipedia https://share.google/b67e22J3eRqzFO8nA

Since when did capital one have coffee

Ugh

[sand frost]

Since ages ago! I recall going to one in 2018

[dusty pollen]

that’s exactly the funny part though, it was never legally binding so the need to remove it was so odd

[cinder karma]

You know what

I'm gonna do some cowboy lawyerin'

And pretend it's legally binding

[steel kraken]

does C++ have better array primitives that don't have that problem, or is that still an actual problem

[cinder karma]

https://youtu.be/G6ZHUOSXZDo?si=ISTm8KEs_LWXef1H

Can't you make your own array primitive

[pliant snow]

Idk jf you count it as primatives, but i think c++ vectors dont have this issue

[cinder karma]

I still don't have a good explanation of how that algorithm has to do with quantum mechanics tbh

They've just been playing settlers of catalan

[steel kraken]

Vectors look like the C# equivilent to List<T> rather than T[]

[dusty pollen]

they’ve just been playing the country of spain?

[cinder karma]

So far I haven't figured out how waveform collapse is different from "try it and backtrack if it doesnt work lol"

[uncut seal]

wow, today's AOC problem is messed up

[hasty sinew]

oh yay you're doing advent of code?

[dusty pollen]

a lot of people in this channel are iirc

[hasty sinew]

dope
I've been getting through it

just got a password manager working

[hushed raven]

Evil Evil if statments, if I didn't have to make sure it worked on pre 3.10 python I would be using match case so much

[dusty pollen]

make a fake match using a string:function dict /lh

[hushed raven]

it's tempting XD

[devout vault]

Yeah a lot of algorithm stuff has fancier names than it should. Like what I’ve complained about dynamic programming / memoization here before.

[hushed raven]

iirc theres two types of waveform collapse, one of which is just exactly that, the other is just the same but you don't backtrack, you just continuously scan instead until completion, why they're two differet types and not just two methods for the same type I have no idea

[cinder karma]

I thought there would be like

I don't know

An entropy or enthalpy or smth

This is boring

[hushed raven]

well, technically there is? just not in the physics sense (which is a shame I really enjoy thermodynamics)

[cinder karma]

How so?

[hushed raven]

the system starts with defined rules at a high entropy where only one of multiple options can be chosen , as more and more options get chosen, the amount of valid options decrease, leading to a lower entropy overall until no more valid options can be chosen in which case the system ends due to lack of entropy to expend, it's different to physics which does the complete opposite, the amount of time a system has continued for is directly proportional to the entropy of the system

[cinder karma]

Oh I see

The PCB on the github is prettty

[hushed raven]

PCB?

[cinder karma]

https://github.com/mxgmn/WaveFunctionCollapse?tab=readme-ov-file

[hushed raven]

Oooo it is!

[dusty pollen]

is lodash still a thing that people use

[safe dragon]

I came across it recently in a fairly new library

[hushed raven]

I too recently used it (kinda)

I managed to replace it pretty quickly

[worn remnant]

i've just checked to make sure and my old employer is still using the same framework that was already near death when i joined the company, let alone when i left

[safe dragon]

I can't access my old job's sites but they've never made a LinkedIn post announcing the replacement that was vaguely in development when I left

so imma guess that continues to be in limbo

or dead

[uncut seal]

damn, this is the wave function collapse repo, really impressive

genAI wishes it could be WFC so bad

[devout vault]

Lots of technical mumbo jumbo, but the GIFs make it very enticing

Like, "I suddenly want to make a proc gen game" level of enticing

Also I didn't realize that technique could be used in 3d

[devout vault]

I did see this video recently, but I haven't watched it yet

[cinder karma]

Don't. The video doesnt explain it

[devout vault]

Ah yes, linux.exe

also known as WSL

Also, from one comment in the reddit thread:

Do you want them to go and implement build pipelines on all repos like a devops vigilante?
I suddenly want a devops vigilante TV show. Just to see what it would be like

[dusty pollen]

I hope this is real

[dusty pollen]

I challenge them to try

[rain apex]

You mean everyone isn't a developer and understands code? Preposterous

[devout vault]

If it is, it's been deleted. PR 1349 is just missing. If you sort by "newest", it goes from 1350 to 1348

Which means 1349 can be whatever we want

Maybe it was a PR that uses https://github.com/MichalStrehovsky/zerosharp to convert the entire kernel into C#

[dusty pollen]

oh the copypasta was originally on reddit apparently haha

[devout vault]

Aww. It's funnier to imagine someone saying that on github itself

[lethal walrus]

it was on reddit about sherlock originally i think

which is totally not a maybe stalking program

[uncut seal]

that's a pretty old copy pasta, I think I've been seeing it for at least 3 years

[devout vault]

It did seem familiar, but I just assumed it was a repost

[safe dragon]

I've seen it a few times yeah

[worn remnant]

gross! that's not the sherlock that i remember

i remember this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_(software)
source of the term "getting sherlocked" (platform owner implements features from a third-party software, rendering it obsolete)

[safe dragon]

yeah the Sherlock I remember is an i18n inspector for vscode

[hushed raven]

I remember using sherlock a long while ago searching for my own username, it didn't tell much I didn't already know XD

[pliant snow]

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Framework-50p-DDR5-Memory

[hushed raven]

I was looking at framework laptops earlier today bc I saw they had a 360 one, 60£ for 8gb is extortionate!

[safe dragon]

honestly with the shit going on I'm surprised it's only 50%

[cinder karma]

To be fair framework was premium to start with

[safe dragon]

I gotta say these rich people used some incredibly good soap when blowing this bubble cause how has it not burst

phenomenal blowing skill

[robust quarry]

OH also i made a modding yapping/shitpost thread for mod-related chatter that isn't seeking help with mod issues
https://discord.com/channels/137344473976799233/1448803705192186019

[ivory shadow]

Would really be nice if computer components had some regulation, because it feels like the RAM companies are all price fixing at this point using AI as an excuse.

[hushed raven]

but then Nvidia couldn't charge over 1k for a GPU! we can't have that! XD

regulation would be truly wonderful for regular consumers

[devout vault]

But think of the shareholders!

[robust quarry]

yeah- yk in the medieval era that was a thing for loaves of bread, the prices were regulated by weight

the medieval era-

and you could prosecuted for bread crimes of making loaves too small

...fun fact

.q list

[heavy dagger]

https://admin.ub3r-b0t.com/quotes?id=137344473976799233&key=c63311d8-78c7-442d-a0c7-1ba986ba59c1

[robust quarry]

dammit meant to be in the mansion- whoops

[devout vault]

...huh? Did someone here give me a bunch of awards after I talked about it before?

[hushed raven]

please let them be all jester awards

[devout vault]

rude

But no

The heartwarming one was the only one I had before

[hushed raven]

wait can you spend points to give awards?

[devout vault]

Yes

That's how you get awards

[hushed raven]

I have 64.5k points free, whats your steam name so I can give you a load of jester awards?

[devout vault]

so rude

Hold on let me block you first /s

Also, because I have to

https://tenor.com/view/rookie-numbers-gif-26135237

[hushed raven]

you are exceptionally easy to find

[hushed raven]

good lord thats so many

[devout vault]

Gee, I wonder why

[devout vault]

Steam deck points go brr

Can't wait to see how big it gets once I buy a steam frame.

And maybe a controller or two, I dunno

[hushed raven]

point count is going to explode

I don't remeber getting point for my steamdeck, cons of ordering pre release

[devout vault]

...did prerelease not get them?

Are all those points of mine organic game points?

[hushed raven]

yep, all organicly grown steam points

thats after spending some aswell for various cosmetics

[devout vault]

Yeah mine too

[hushed raven]

Perks of having a decently sized steam library I guess

damn I can only give one jester award, no!

well I found a way around that quickly

[devout vault]

Multiple tabs?

[hushed raven]

nope, reviews and steam workshop

[devout vault]

Also yeah, my steam deck points aren't in my points shop history

[hushed raven]

Oof I've spent 100k points wow

[devout vault]

The only review I left was for a game I got without looking at the reviews. There was a reason every single review (less than ten if I remember right) was negative.

And I can't link the game because the store page is gone now

]Like it just redirects to the home page

[hushed raven]

wow that homescreen for the game is just increadible...

[devout vault]

Which game

[hushed raven]

the game you reviewed

[devout vault]

The one I mentioned? Did you manage to load the page?

[hushed raven]

nah not the page just the community tab for it

[devout vault]

Ah

I found the steamdb page

[hushed raven]

I wonder if it can still be grabbed through depots

[devout vault]

Well I refunded it so I wouldn't know

[hushed raven]

Experience the world of Arcane Raise for the first time in 3D with breathtaking sceneries and mind-blowing visuals.
if nintendo DS graphics are breaktaking and mind blowing, I dread to think what the new larian game will be

right back to web dev

[devout vault]

I mean I'd be fine with what I recall from the graphics if the gameplay made up for it

But from what I vaguely recall, the gameplay basically consisted of "what gameplay?"

It felt like someone followed a RPG tutorial, and never added anything to it. Not just mechanically, but even new areas or monsters

[safe dragon]

the end of aoc has come

[devout vault]

Tragic

[safe dragon]

I have failed to stay under 0.5 seconds

and that's with me still not having a proper solution to day 10 part 2 yet

hard to optimize this when like 300 ms of this total runtime is gleam's built in sort function

don't implement ur sorting algorithms in a language that doesn't support mutation people

[devout vault]

Also TIL sharex does the the layers you add underneath the captured cursor

[safe dragon]

the future

ashes of creation...

[hushed raven]

I read ashes as ashens and though he was making another movie I was unaware of

[fleet wren]

interesting new discord feature

it has decided that is my default

[cinder karma]

Mines 💖

You can tell I'm a scrub without premiums

[devout vault]

I have literally offered you the free temporary nitro multiple times, but you just won’t take it. 😔

You, too, could enjoy Spenny anywhere you desire.

[hushed raven]

mine is but I can only use it in a single server and it isn't even here

[dusty pollen]

for some reason mine was

[devout vault]

How do you check

Is it mobile only?

[dusty pollen]

maybe? I’m on ipad

[devout vault]

I would assume so based on "tap" to react

[dusty pollen]

wait actually the feature is about double tap so yes it would be mobile only

yeah

when it gives you the popup it tells you what your default is

[devout vault]

But I don't want to update my mobile app 😔

[hushed raven]

I don't think you have to, I don't have auto update enabled for any mobile apps and it still appeared

[dusty pollen]

I would think you would have to update it to when the experiment was first introduced a few months ago

iirc casey is years behind

[hushed raven]

Ahh okay then ye it might need an update then XD

[devout vault]

Nah I actually updated at some point (multiple times) hoping a bug would get fixed

[hushed raven]

Did it? guessing not

[devout vault]

Can't recall for sure, but I don't think so

I'm on 296, which I'm having a hard time finding a date on but seems to be in september

This year

I don't see the feature anywhere

[dusty pollen]

it popped up completely at random for me when I reacted to something

so keep reacting to things ig

[devout vault]

Welp that didn't work

I wonder if they would have not done it if you have that setting off which I never turned off but is off

Like with checkpoints

[dusty pollen]

which setting?

I also have privacy off now

[devout vault]

Something something personalization

[fleet wren]

I wonder what's the trigger because is hardly my most used emote

[hushed raven]

I thought that said "piracy" and I was very confused as to why discord would have that

[fleet wren]

didnt get it with a couple earlier

[hardy jewel]

has it fully rolled out? I thought it was still in beta so not everyone would have the feature

[devout vault]

Dang, I got scammed into giving iro two free 👀 reacts

[cinder karma]

💖 isn't my most used eithrr

But it is my most used free emoji

[cinder karma]

I have privacy on tbh

[steel kraken]

it looked like it just activated after first standalone react on the new update

[cinder karma]

https://youtu.be/PZ_ebxkNZmo?si=4m73YITB0GOb6yCB

"Can I still learn programming if I hate math."

[long verge]

I can't think of a programming field that doesn't need math

[safe dragon]

I mean if we're including basic arithmetic in that then that'd be tough

the average web developer isn't doing a whole lot of math though

[cinder karma]

The Tor Project is Making a Switch to Rust, Ditches C https://itsfoss.com/news/tor-rust-rewrite-progress/

[safe dragon]

I thought tor was just a Firefox wrapper

oh the stuff around the browser itself to make it work

right

that doesn't just magically function

[hushed raven]

I mean, I am currently writing CSS and I have used calc() an exceptional amount to make sure things fit, even more so than when doing JS

[red crest]

i think excessive use of calc() is a bad sign

[hushed raven]

probably, but it's quick and automatic

and doesn't seem to cause any slowdown

[red crest]

i dont mean for performance reasons

[safe dragon]

I will refrain from thinking too hard about what your css looks like

I think there's 2 calcs in my entire css stylesheet at work

both for some virtualized grid shenanigans

usually making sure things fit is done with like... grid

or flexbox of course though flexbox is more about placement of children than sizing

[red crest]

both in tandem is also perfectly valid

[safe dragon]

definitely

[hushed raven]

please do refrain, I fear you would have a heart attack if you think about it too much, it was up to 10KB now its down to 8, which is still a lot I think

[red crest]

Atlas, care to submit your repo for a code audit?

[safe dragon]

I use both extensively

[red crest]

(/j im not auditing shit i cant be bothered)

[hushed raven]

Oh I will... when it's fixed so there won't be anything to audit XD

[red crest]

oh im not auditing for bugs

i mean for code quality

[hushed raven]

oh you don't need an audit for that, the quality is poor XD

in my defense it's because it's a rush job, when it's functional it will be improved a LOT

[safe dragon]

I'm reminded of this C UI Layout library called clay which as has an html renderer and it's the most cursed looking html

almost every element has a transform: translate() on it

[hushed raven]

everything is named "Clay" or "CLAY" seemingly with no coherent pattern for capitalisation?

[safe dragon]

https://www.nicbarker.com/clay

[hushed raven]

Oh I found the naming conventions, nvm it is coherant

[safe dragon]

this in this case

[long verge]

idk

i feel like if u wanna do cool animations and stuff u'd still need maths

[hushed raven]

Oh wow, that is a lot of transform:translate()s XD

[long verge]

sad day for C enjoyers

[safe dragon]

kinda why I said that it depends on what you consider to be math

I don't consider basic ass algebra to really be doing math

[hushed raven]

do you consider SVG rendering as maths?

[safe dragon]

unless you're handwriting ur animation bezier curves I ain't counting it

[long verge]

yeah right

[safe dragon]

if you're hand writing svgs then wtf but yes that's math I suppose

[hushed raven]

Nooo totally didn't write an svg manually

no I didn't it was a shameless copy paste, I don't have the attention span to do that

[safe dragon]

I do some math sometimes when programming but when comparing to shit like 3d rendering, audio engineering...

data analysis, obviously

makes it feel silly to call what I do math

it do be involving numbers

[hushed raven]

technically at the lowest levels of computers, everything is maths, it's just heavily abstracted to not maths

[safe dragon]

I tell browser I want funny lil input somewhere and the layout engine start spinning up, doin math

[hushed raven]

I liked when I didn't know how to use github, all my code could be as messy as I want because no one would see it, now I actually have to face it, it's criminal

[safe dragon]

don't worry you can set it to private

[hushed raven]

true but it's gunna be public soon

unless I do keep it private for ever... nahhh that sounds like an excuse

[devout vault]

That’s what git rebase is for

Squash it all into one commit before the initial push

Or do you mean the code itself not commits

[hushed raven]

I mean the code itself

[devout vault]

Ah

[hushed raven]

the commits I am fine being a mess, that is no mans land and shouldn't be viewed ever XD

[prisma flume]

the good thing about github is if they can judge it they can send a pr to improve it 🙂‍↕️

[devout vault]

Only put the compiled DLLs on GitHub and hope people don’t decompile

[cinder karma]

Smh

Just close source if you're gonna do that

I'm perfectly okay with people seeing my shitty mod code which is why I do NOT include it on my resume

[sand frost]

I feel like your code isn’t shitty

Maybe my standards are low but I hear some stories from my brothers…

The time his coworkers panicked and ran to him for help because they’d pushed a commit with a password or something…he was the intern, they were full time. He fixed it for them though!

[devout vault]

I learned that lesson when I was like like 13/14, and someone dug into the compiled IRC bot I shared and found the strings

I had done the password like:

std::string username = "supercoolircbot";
std::string password = "ultrasecretpassword";
#if RELEASE
std::cout << "Username: ";
std::getline( std::cin, username );
std::cout << "Password: ";
std::getline( std::cin, password );
#endif

Also, I don't know what's going on, but on google search results, reddit often seems to be showing AI summaries now

ex.

Like I don't care about your AI summary, and usually I'm looking for specific wording that there's no way that dumb LLM nonsense would understand

Might be time to finally switch off google

Are there any search engines these days that have most things indexed and aren't going AI?

[cinder karma]

Reddit itself generates ai summaries now

[fleet wren]

ah yes, reddit ai generating summaries to feed to google ai, this will have no negative consequences whatsoever

why are my ai images so yellow

yes technically we dont know for sure inbreeding is why ai images are yellow but shhh

[devout vault]

I love websites that don't let me middle click scroll so much. Just what I need to fix my muscle memory of using middle click scroll despite having a realiable scroll wheel again

I'm having to physically click the scroll bar to do fast "bulk scrolling", ugh

[fleet wren]

what's middle click scroll (i use linux btw)

[tranquil grove]

i assumed that was specific to that ghibli plagiarism model & thus related to bad movie rips or something
so much the better if it's due to wider pollution though

or bad mixing etc

[fleet wren]

yeah the ghibli fad was the other popular explanation, we still don't know for sure though (ai models being blackboxes and all)

[devout vault]

It acts a little weird when used on containers that can also be scrolled

The circle that pops up is from pressing the scroll wheel

It goes away when you click something else (even not-middle-click). And it seems if you hold middle click instead of briefly doing it, it'll go away when you release as well

I only started using it because my previous mouse's scroll wheel decided that to flip a coin each "tick" of scrolling to decide which way it wanted to go

Making it effectively useless

[tranquil grove]

same, but despite my mouse software disabling it randomly on like 5% of boots, I still like using it

[fleet wren]

sorry, i should clarify that it was a joke on how not many, if any, linux DEs implement the functionality

[tranquil grove]

slightly easier on my muscles despite the jank

[devout vault]

Middle click or normal scrolling?

[tranquil grove]

middle click

[devout vault]

Ah

I thought you meant same on the 50% scroll wheel woes

When I say 50% I mean that literally. It seemed like an even split on if I went up or down, no matter which direction I scrolled

[tranquil grove]

my old mouse's wheel was a) really stiff and b) stopped working right, so I started middle-clicking around

new one's a Glorious Core™ brand gift from a while back & their rebinding software is kind of a sloppy chromium-wrapped thing (iirc)

just loses the button sometimes

[cinder karma]

The nice one

#making-mods-general message

[steel kraken]

I'm upset. I procrastinated for like 9 months to build this PC and I have incompatible ram

My ram is rdimm's which the motherboard can't fit

[devout vault]

Find someone who has the same problem but using RAM that does work for you but yours works for them, and trade

totally not easier said than done

[rain apex]

is it cheaper to buy compatible mobo or compatible ram

[devout vault]

Hmm. Good point.

Might depend on what kind of motherboard is compatible with all the other parts they have, though.

[rain apex]

i dont even know what rdimms are

[steel kraken]

Registered dimm with ECC

The price of the kit I bought has almost doubled

Looks like CPU also doesn't support RDIMM anyway and upgrading to threadripper is more expensive than ram

Does mean if I want I could buy 192gb of ram instead of staying at 128gb

[cinder karma]

Jesus

[chrome plaza]

Why do you have 128 GB of ram??

Can you donate some to me

[devout vault]

Why not?

If I had the budget I would get an absurd amount too

[steel kraken]

My current machine is already 128gb of ram and I am hitting that limit

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/concern-robot-gif-9226335

[cinder karma]

I have....12GB

[rain apex]

did u put your whole OS in there

[devout vault]

OS can't load slow if it's always completely loaded. taps forehead

[lyric bloom]

this reminds me I need to take the PSU out of my old comp so I can set up an eGPU

running the benchmark for CP2077 on my minipc saw it sit at a nice and toasty 73C. >_>

[dusty pollen]

is 73C toasty? my laptop runs at 80C minimum

[lyric bloom]

I feel 82c/73c idling in benchmarks or creating screens is sus, yes

[safe dragon]

idling in benchmarks?

not a very effective benchmark

73C sounds fine in a benchmark really

could run a stress test and see if the temps stay in safe ranges

[crystal wren]

Depending on the CPU, hitting literally the max safe level could be expected depending on your cooling and the benchmark.

But if that's idle...

[hushed raven]

reminds me when my last CPU was sat at 100C (thermal throttle limit) just browsing the internet, only to pull it out and realise my cpu cooler had come unplugged

new max execution time for a python script, 200 seconds, wow

[sand frost]

On one temperature scale (“how much will I hate going outside”) ouch, that’s hot. On another temperature scale (“how does steel feel about it”), that’s pretty cold 😛

That’s pretty long, I don’t know if I’ve done worse in Python but I had a Matlab script running for 30 min before I got bored and killed it

It was my own fault though, I was too lazy to think through doing matrix operations to reshape the data and instead was doing for loops

When I got less lazy it was maybe 30s

[hushed raven]

that is a dramatic drop XD I could probably reduce the time taken for it to do it's thing but given it will only be running once a day it's not that bad

[sand frost]

The for loop was doing about 2000 frames of 250x600 pixel data so I think it was suffering greatly

[hushed raven]

jesus thats a lot of data, at least mine is only looking through 18k ish json files

[sand frost]

Video data gets big fast yeah, 1GB files are fairly normal

This is also raw uncompressed data because it’s actually temperature data

Unlike normal videos which I would definitely compress

At some point I’ll have to buy more storage probably, but for now since it’s only like 30s of video at a time it’s fine

[cinder karma]

(On the scale of silicon, it's...meh but not great)

It's less "the silicon bulk will get upset" but you get higher leakage current tbh

Anyways

I wait for one of u to do a waveform collapse proc gen map in stardew

[hushed raven]

I have been toying with the idea but C# is letting me down

[safe dragon]

impossible

C# would never let you down

unless the thing you want to do is use your favorite editor with it instead of the established 2 options

[hushed raven]

true, C# itself isn't letting me down, my lack of knowledge and IDEs are letting me down XD

I still have yet to get rider or vscode working with stardew, and VS just isn't available for linux

[safe dragon]

tbh you're definitely not helped by all the extra jank from trying to make it work for sdv

[hushed raven]

that is certain, I can do programs related to stardew, just not stardew mods XD

[safe dragon]

forced into a .NET version that's no longer supported

[hushed raven]

if only it was ported to a newer .NET

[safe dragon]

all the fancy nice Span niceties

spans my beloved

[cinder karma]

Stardew has spans

[safe dragon]

that's why I added the niceties qualifier

[cinder karma]

But I have something better....a soldering iron

[safe dragon]

spans have technically existed since like... .net core 2.1 or something

[cinder karma]

A lot of span niceties do exist as of net 6

[safe dragon]

🙏

I should try .net 10

[cinder karma]

How is gleam

[safe dragon]

it was ok

I doubt I'll ever use it again now that AoC is over

[rain apex]

I got implict field last week it was amazing

You can use latest language you just have to target 6

[cinder karma]

Ooh I've wanted the implicit field

[devout vault]

I mean I do want to do a proc gen dungeon again in MMR, in theory. But stardew3D/VR is a higher priority 😛

[devout vault]

Not everything though 😔

[rain apex]

Yes our linq remains not zoom

[dusty pollen]

I hope you never see my laptop CPU temps

[red crest]

i want the required modifier

[devout vault]

Do you consider it... something you require(d)?

[red crest]

yes!

[cinder karma]

Why (merp)

[red crest]

sometimes things are required innit

[dusty pollen]

can we not use it rn or does it just get removed during compilation

[safe dragon]

why use required when you can go for the classic = null!

the other way for visual studio to stop giving you a warning when you using string instead of string? but don't enforce a value in the constructor

"I pinky promise this will never be null and am willing to cause an exception if it is"

[devout vault]

…you can do null!?

[safe dragon]

yes

public string Value { get; set; } = null!

[devout vault]

Looks wrong, but there was a time recently when I could’ve used that

[safe dragon]

you essentially kinda promise you think that default value will never be used

it can be pretty useful

[devout vault]

The thing I’m thinking of I think was for a temporary data structure for a source generator

[safe dragon]

I have some places where I enforce models to have an empty constructor/implement new() which is impossible with fields that are marked as required

[fleet wren]

at risk of being on topic = null! is useful for SDV mods where the Entry function for all intents and purposes is the actual constructor

[devout vault]

I much prefer new() { prop = 123, } over making really long constructors

[devout vault]

Spoken like someone who has no clue the depths that code crimes can go

[safe dragon]

it's used quite frequently for data models that you serialize/deserialize instead of manually construct

[fleet wren]

thou underestimateth mine powereth

[devout vault]

It sounds like you’re the one underestimating me here

I’m pretty sure I’ve used Entry and constructor in the same mod before

Can’t recall when though

[safe dragon]

idk if I should've told you about some way of allowing more code crime

[devout vault]

Eh, that’s pretty small on the grand scheme of code crimes

[safe dragon]

true

[devout vault]

It’s just a workaround for a language feature not being available

[fleet wren]

all non-Rust code is crimes, there is no need for debate

[devout vault]

Not “there is no sane reason why this should be doable”

[red crest]

its not usable even with a polyfill library

or wait i might be backwards it might be usable WITH a polyfill thing

but not without

i wanted it for something that other people could potentially expand upon and i wanted them to know that it must be set and cannot be left null

[fleet wren]

hmm how does it work, does it get turned into an annotation

[red crest]

i have no idea ask PolySharp

[safe dragon]

I thnk resharper/rider has had an annotation for required fields for a long time

much like the [NotNull] thing before C# had the built in nullability system

[red crest]

(also doubling what Selph said re: null! i use that all the time for my stardew mods for that exact reason)

(im surprised casey has not seen it before)

[devout vault]

I think I remember seeing an attribute problem when I tried to use required

[safe dragon]

it'd be really surprising for anyone from the enterprise C# world but I try not to assume anything for modding

[devout vault]

I mean my mods don't use nullable 😛

Like even for new mods I turn it off

[red crest]

looking at the polysharp stuff it looks like it does just set [RequiredMember] on it

[fleet wren]

that is a far bigger crime than anything you do before or since /s

[red crest]

or maybe requiredmember is what its trying to polyfill for? idk

[devout vault]

How sheltered of you

[safe dragon]

a criminal

[red crest]

i dont need to understand this stuff all i know is i couldnt do it before adding polysharp

[devout vault]

If my code doesn't make your eyes bleed like you just looked at an eldritch being, then you haven't seen enough of my code yet

[safe dragon]

tbh adding = null! basically doesn't do anything if you're disabling nullable completely

[devout vault]

From what I recall, using required tries to put an attribute on it, but if the attribute doesn't exist it cries

[fleet wren]

some crimes are terrible by virtue of its simplicity. backflipping over an active ambulance while naked and juggling two molotov cocktails is criminal, but not as much as murder

[red crest]

that sounds right. i just meant i dont know what polysharp does to polyfill that

[devout vault]

Yeah, the time I've needed it recently was for one case where I was in a project that used nullable

[red crest]

besides maybe just, recreating the annotation class ig

[devout vault]

I think you just make the annotation

I know you can do that with InternalsVisibleTo (or possibly some other attribute, can't recall for sure)

I never can remember between JVM/NET which uses "annotation" and which uses "attribute"

[safe dragon]

well uh

C# uses attributes as naming convention but then one of the largest first party set of attributes for data models is called DataAnnotations

including of course https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.componentmodel.dataannotations.requiredattribute?view=net-10.0

[cinder karma]

Yeah. You can just create the annotation class lol

Attributed

I'm a 🐍

[lyric bloom]

That was my APU so it reporting high means my CPU was also sitting there. Idle is like.. 34-43C, so normal.

I remember, at one point, trying to use null! across my mods

some of them did not like that

[steel kraken]

Smapi itself is full of them

https://github.com/search?q=repo%3APathoschild%2FSMAPI null!&type=code

[dusty pollen]

it's a good way to make sure if you don't initialize something it explodes

or just to not have to make a dummy placeholder

[steel kraken]

Or having the entire codebase treat it as nullable due to the last 5ms before the game shuts down, or early startup due to not being set by a constructor

[dusty pollen]

tbh semantically it makes sense that it's possible, the whole point of ! is that it's a pinkie promise that even though this thing looks nullable to the compiler it isn't so it should ignore that

by its very nature it can't actually have checks for whether the thing it's being applied to is null

[cinder karma]

YouTube has been advertising British fine dining to me

[fleet wren]

something something grape scissors

[cinder karma]

YouTube has also been advertising me houses for $5k down lol

[hasty sinew]

Laptop vs Desktop is a very different environment

Current+heat+voltage kills silicon and degrades the transistor gate oxide

Due to their lower current and performance requirements (and thus lower voltage) laptops and phone chips are usually safer at much higher temps

[hasty sinew]

LRDIMMs would work maybe but RDIMM doesn’t yeah. Modern DDR5 has onboard ECC, a fairly rudimentary implementation, but it should be enough for a consumer

[steel kraken]

the product page for the 9950x3d explicitly lists UDIMM as the only supported memory

[hasty sinew]

Can you tell me how you know you’ve hit the limit?

[steel kraken]

"idling" at 110/128gb

[dusty pollen]

I can see how that would apply to phone chips, but I can't imagine that a soldered i5-6500 and a socketed i5-6500 have power draw that's that dramatically different?

and one of my old laptops had a socketed cpu haha

so it was literally using the same cpu that a desktop would

[steel kraken]

modern desktop cpus will happily be 200-500w if there is thermal headroom

[hasty sinew]

Ok just so you know almost half of that is delivery optimization or caching, and is not in use. You can use RAMMap to find your true usage

[steel kraken]

and the latest threadripper pro has a tdp of 350 but will run at 2000w if you tell it to

[dusty pollen]

"modern" is a stretch for both my laptops and my desktop tbf haha

[hasty sinew]

I went from 153GB to 49 under load after clearing caches that weren’t process private

[steel kraken]

though both amd and intel do say that 95c is fine™

[hasty sinew]

AMD Zen4 chips target 95

[dusty pollen]

got that High Spec Performance

[hasty sinew]

The silicon can handle 110

With PBO, a Zen4 chip will always boost its way up to 95c

[lyric bloom]

[doubt]

Like I'm very sorry, that seems wrong, and I'm not really thrilled with the idea of a near boiling surface so casually sitting in a computer.

[hasty sinew]

Unless you have a tonne of cooling

[cyan shadow]

I wouldn't want any of my stuff running at 95-110, I gotta say

[steel kraken]

it will only boost when actively being pushed, lower cpu utilization and it'll calm back down

[hasty sinew]

It’s just not. The silicon on those chips , ESPECIALLY. x3d likes to run hot

[dusty pollen]

it does make it physically difficult to use my laptop when I reach over 90C because it's hot to the touch, yeah

[hasty sinew]

To be clear this is what I meant

[cyan shadow]

A sign of laptop abuse is singed arm hair

[hasty sinew]

I can show you exactly where the thermal target is set

But on default behaviour, the thermal target is 95c on zen4 and zen5

[steel kraken]

laptops iirc run with a lower thermal target as they legally cant let the exterior go over certain temperatures

[dusty pollen]

anyway yeah, iirc this is the main reason for the lower temps on laptops, not some difference between equivalent laptop and desktop cpus because you can get some absolute beasts in laptops nowadays

[steel kraken]

STAPM (Skin Temperature-Aware Power Management)

[hasty sinew]

The other reason they run lower temps is that silicon has a specific frequency curve relative to its power

That’s usually pushed past optimal on desktop

And kept at or even below optimal for mobile and laptop devices

[dusty pollen]

iirc my laptop and desktop have the same cpu and run at the same freq? but I'll check later when I'm on my laptop

[hasty sinew]

It depends if they maintain that frequency under load

[steel kraken]

the physical compute cores are the same, but are packaged differently and features like stapm aren't present on desktop

[dusty pollen]

(also my cpu is 14nm not 7nm, though your point still stands haha)

[hasty sinew]

That doesn’t mean anything

The frequency curve is a property of all silicon

[dusty pollen]

hence why your point still stands

[hasty sinew]

No I mean 14nm itself doesn’t mean anything

[steel kraken]

also labels like 14nm and 7nm also dont mean anything anymore and are just brand names for the fab tech

[hasty sinew]

There’s no element of it that’s 14nm

[dusty pollen]

yeah, I know. I just found it silly that the chart was for 7nm. not making a point, just a comment /lh

[hasty sinew]

The gate of a Intel 14P is 71x53nm

anyways

[lyric bloom]

hm. Well, okay

[hasty sinew]

I just pushed DDR5 to 9666\ the other day

[lyric bloom]

(To be fair, if this wasn't a minipc, and I had anything relatively modern, I'd probably undervolt anyway.)

(something something electricity bills)

[hasty sinew]

AMD Zen 4 and Zen 5 CPUs have their thermal target set to 95°C, which means the CPU will boost as much as it can, until it reaches that point, to maximize performance. Unlike on Intel, on AMD it's not possible to increase the 95°C limit.

from TPU

time to spend an hour writing comments

[cyan shadow]

Fr

[dusty pollen]

QUILL hi

[lyric bloom]

I'm on the fence as it is about setting up a eGPU because that's going to be another 600w drain. >_>

[dusty pollen]

would an egpu be helpful for you?

[lyric bloom]

sort-of. I'm finding it difficult to play certain games, but I also admit it's very likely going to be something I turn my comp off, connect, turn it on, game for a bit, then reverse the process

because I should without too much issue, be able to support 665w total usage on this circuit

but I also do not wish to experiment

[dusty pollen]

very fair

[cyan shadow]

IROOOO HAI

[lyric bloom]

(the wiring where I live is a) knob and tube b) and I've observed turning on a 1.5kW air condintor causes the lights to flicker and c) our bills are also increasing, so I'm trying to mediate my usage of power anyway.)

[dusty pollen]

idk how performant egpus are (as in genuinely don't know, as you can tell I don't have a dedicated gpu of any kind haha)

[lyric bloom]

..hm

performance use is ~5% or so for like 4090s

*loss

[dusty pollen]

oh, not too bad

[lyric bloom]

for something like my 3080 it'll probably so cloes to native I won't be able to tell

(assuming, of course, it works, which is an open question.)

[dusty pollen]

how are they connected to the main pc?

[lyric bloom]

via oculink, which is a PCI bridge

[dusty pollen]

ah, that explains it

[lyric bloom]

"The power supply receives mixed reviews, with one customer mentioning the Oculink interface does not provide power."

[dusty pollen]

I haven't been keeping up with pc stuff in the past... six? years?

[lyric bloom]

you don't say, amazon summarization AI

you don't say

[devout vault]

plz ignore the implication that you are asking people to try and destroy your vehicle

[dusty pollen]

(my current pc was free because my cs dept was getting rid of it)

[lyric bloom]

Ahh, that's nice

[dusty pollen]

no storage or network card but those are cheaper than a pc haha

but it meant the specs are whatever the pc was

[lyric bloom]

yeah

I actually still rely on wifi here because I thought about setting up a lan hub and such but

I figured there's no point in running more wires around

but I was sorely tempted. >_>

[cinder karma]

(Fwiw - silicon can run higher than 95C - automotive typically designs for 150C, the transistors just get weaker and it's hard to do very high frequencies over a wide temperature band so they don't.)

[hasty sinew]

600w?

what eGPU?

[lyric bloom]

I have a 3080 Super

the PSU I have laying around is 600w

.. so you can probably guess what I'm hooking up to the dock

[hasty sinew]

a 600w psu wont draw 600w

it'll draw according to the load on it

[lyric bloom]

ah

makes me feel a bit better then

[hasty sinew]

a 600w PSU just means the internals are set up to withstand up to 600w of continuous draw and have good voltage-response up to that

theres a series of PSUs that was around back in 2022 that had no over-power protection, you could demand 1200W from it

[lyric bloom]

.. that sounds like hte recipe to release the magic smoke

[hasty sinew]

funny thing is it ran fine at 900w for extended durations, it just had worse voltage response and higher ripple voltage

in the conversion from AC to DC, theres a bit of ripple that remains, so your votlage isnt stable

that PSU was killing CPUs and GPUs cause it was rippling high enough to cause permanent degredation

[steel kraken]

psu testing is an area that LTT labs does do good writeups on if your PSU is in their data https://www.lttlabs.com/categories/power-supplies as they go above the 80+ testing criteria and test for the other protections and more granular load ranges

[hasty sinew]

Cybenetics testing is imo a lot better (than 80plus)

because it factors in vampire power and so on

but yeah it's really good

https://cultists.network/

I write for this site

[shy warren]

just to know, the stardew valley mods in which language are written?

[lethal walrus]

oh thats horrifically on topic

youd be better off in #making-mods-general

[shy warren]

ok,sry

[hushed raven]

Finally figured out why my JS wasn't loading on refresh, apparently window.addEventListener with the 'DOMContentLoaded' type is very easy to forget

[devout vault]

This really does bring up some good points.

https://youtu.be/Y8TfpuTJAsQ

[hushed raven]

the 4th point makes sense but like, is it really that bad? feels like nitpicking just for the sake of it

[hasty sinew]

@odd basin I run a lot of models locally

On my own setup

If you hook those models up to an app with agentic capabilities (like an IDE, or even something like LMStudio or Ollama) you can get great results for very specific usecases

[odd basin]

ok so as a noob what does that even mean lol? i'll tell you the words I understood:

I -> yourself
run locally -> host on your own machine?? or you mean use in a local web browser??
a lot of models -> like chatgpt, claude, gemini, etc?

[hasty sinew]

Yes
I download model files

From a public database or repo, usually hosted on HuggingFace

[odd basin]

I didn't know those were available, what's the advantage to that?

[rain apex]

It means u use ur own hardware to do stuff

[hasty sinew]

1. it’s free
2. it’s completely private
3. it’s far more power efficient on a global scale
4. it’s faster

Downsides: you need good enough hardware to do it

[odd basin]

I had been spamming chatgpt browser version with 10 files at a time of my webpage and asking it to review them, then deleting the chat when it got too slow then uploading them again

Just today I learned that you can hook up Codex to VSCode and never have to do that again and it would have been a lot faster as it can read your whole repo

[hasty sinew]

I get an output rate of about 200 tokens per second on a 70B parameter model

[odd basin]

i guess if you have a spare computer that makes sense

[hasty sinew]

Currently chat gpt outputs at around 40

[odd basin]

you must be doing some serious stuff

[hasty sinew]

I’m a computer engineer

[rain apex]

Although I want to say something about reliance on ai bad for learning i also recognize that colleg kids these days all do that

So it's a little walk up hill both ways of me lol

[hasty sinew]

I often use AI for trace and circuit optimization in areas where my RTL and EDA software fails

Or for quickly scraping datasheets for me, to find ideal components for my use case

That said, it’s good for general use case too

[odd basin]

it's good and bad for learning

• good: asking it to create a block of code then explain it line-by-line is just a faster and better way of having a textbook and teacher rolled into one. it's like a magic interactive textbook

• bad: when the assignment is due today and i didn't start it yet... etc

[hasty sinew]

I feel much more comfortable training an AI on the totality of files on my computer

When I know it’s completely local

[hasty sinew]

You’ll never learn syntax fully with AI teaching you

If you want to learn languages, especially C++, there’s lots of much better resources

[odd basin]

i googled some of these acronyms, ok so when you say computer engineer you mean you deal with hardware. yeah that is NOT my strongest class, i am much more of a frontend guy. same reason i couldn't be a physicist, I guess. props to you though.

[long verge]

I like to ask chatgpt to explain concepts/give me guidelines and write code myself👌
And then I ask him for feedback/good practices etc

[hasty sinew]

This is a good idea 👍 ^

[long verge]

Works great for math too

Even tho chatGPT is way weaker in math

[hasty sinew]

But a developer without instant knowledge about the syntax or specific functions of their primary languages is like someone who claims to know English but can’t complete a sentence without a dictionary

[odd basin]

even writing code myself it doesn't always stick with me... i did my python class 100% without AI, it was before i started using it

if you gave me a blank sheet of paper and said to write anything in python, i would draw a complete blank. i would need to google it.

tbh i don't get why people propose using google/stackoverflow and are against AI when it's just a better version of that from my point of view

[long verge]

yup

[hasty sinew]

Idk in what world you live in where this is true

Maybe a year ago

But in the almost-2026 you shouldn’t be having issues idt

[odd basin]

just like you can't learn Spanish without living in Spain for a bit or at least getting immersed somehow, no matter how much Duolingo or Rosetta Stone you do, I don't believe I will be able to "speak" my syntaxes until I get a job in the field

[hasty sinew]

I make/design those silly green circuit boards you see all the time for electronics

[rain apex]

I think that's a false premise and one reason to have some hobby projects is to get immersed

I do not write C# for work lol

[long verge]

Idk it sometimes struggles with advanced algebra and analysis concept

[hasty sinew]

Other times I design a processor from scratch

[odd basin]

if the hobby project is constant yeah. like if i made a game over 5 years i would learn it fluently. but my little 2 week project once again did not leave me with permanent fluency

[long verge]

Now do it in Minecraft 🫵

[odd basin]

so you are basically a doctor and i'm a receptionist

[rain apex]

While I don't know off top of head how to do some specific syntax thingy in some language or context

[devout vault]

Yeah my college professor friend in CS is Suffering™

[hasty sinew]

I could. All the building blocks are the same, if I just make a NAND cell in Minecraft then boom

[rain apex]

I usually have idea that "im gonna use this algorithm or that data structure"

[hasty sinew]

Chuve what do you work in?

[rain apex]

Then i look it up and go ah it's called a Vec in rust because the crabs r silly

[hasty sinew]

I’m like 90% C99

[rain apex]

Database engines

[hasty sinew]

Rust ☹️

☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️

[odd basin]

did anyone make a working computer in minecraft yet? i saw someone do it in terraria

[devout vault]

rust 🤢

[devout vault]

Yes. Many times

[long verge]

Yes a lot of ppl

[rain apex]

They r making us put the crab in the elephant yes

[long verge]

We even had MC in MC

[hasty sinew]

I saw the most disgusting piece of rust code ever

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #6811 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1449812157637070858)

[odd basin]

lol that's crazy

[hasty sinew]

It genuinely made me wanna die the other day

[cinder karma]

Nice

[rain apex]

I actually don't mind rust that much they just choose some ugly (literal) syntax

Why is ' anything other than a char quote

[odd basin]

what's the point of rust over C++?

[rain apex]

Memory safety

[odd basin]

i heard that but like if you program C++ properly/safely it's just better?

[modest steppe]

[backreads] ah yes,,,, crab elephant

[long verge]

Who needs that ? /s

[rain apex]

They want more guardrails so that there's less exploding someone's prod

Also Security™

[devout vault]

Hating yourself

[odd basin]

got it

[modest steppe]

rust has sinned and must be punished

[odd basin]

the channel topic mentions rust so someone must like it

[long verge]

Y'all acting like C++ doesn't have an atrocious syntax

[sand frost]

I think Atra likes rust

I have a friend irl who loves it

[hasty sinew]

GenericArray (U8, <UInt<UInt<UInt<UInt<UInt<UTerm, B1>, B0>, B0>, B0>, B0>, B0>)

[modest steppe]

but why

[cinder karma]

It saves you from yourself

[modest steppe]

ah, that does sound useful

[hasty sinew]

Before Rust fully supported "const generics" (writing [u8; 32]), libraries had to use a typenum to define numbers as types.

[cinder karma]

I'm a lot more comfortable doing threaded stuff with it

[devout vault]

Unfortunately, several people her edo

[rain apex]

I did have a whole year where I got to write pure C though that was nice

[hasty sinew]

I mean I like rust, just define everything as unsafe

Panic my beloved

[rain apex]

Aside from being sad about kernel 6.10 things i don't get to use

[long verge]

C is great

[hasty sinew]

No language will make you feel more good about yourself than C

All my embedded hardware design work is in C

[sand frost]

I write a lot of Matlab, and I’m pretty sure that’s worse than rust

[hasty sinew]

Ah, a fellow engineer

I have a buddy at mathworks who hates 1-indexing but he’s happy to get paid 6 figures in this current job market so 🤷‍♂️

[sand frost]

Whatever gets the job done goes in engineering land

[rain apex]

Your work is a few levels lower than mine on the tech stack

[sand frost]

I reported a bug to Matlab the other day and they were like “uhhh guess it’s broken, keep using your workaround?”

[modest steppe]

[hasty sinew]

Are you on 2026a prerelease?

[wise galleon]

Based

[modest steppe]

"fix it yourself"

[sand frost]

getframe() is broken in 2025a and I don’t see any relevant bug fixes in the changelogs for 2025b

[odd basin]

i'm learning exceptions in C++ right now and the name of the what() function is just so inexpressive. idk what else I would name it but it feels like C++ didn't care much about new people understanding it

[sand frost]

Not sure I have prerelease access, haven’t checked

[hasty sinew]

I’ll bring it up next time I’m on call with my friend

[sand frost]

It’s definitely something to do with default calling gca, because calling it on gca is also broken

Calling it on gcf is fine though

[long verge]

Altought seg fault will make you cry.

[sand frost]

The workaround is that manually setting axis properties somehow resets the issue, which makes me worry deeply about the root cause

[hasty sinew]

There’s beautiful debuggers for C

Even if we ignore the Visual studio debugger, gdb is so nice

Using gdbserver

[sand frost]

Im2frame is possibly relatedly horribly broken

[long verge]

People using debuggers are real ?

[hasty sinew]

Why do you think people use Visual Studio over CLion?

[sand frost]

It makes a video that is just glitched, where gca just doesn’t respect axis limits

[wise galleon]

Console logs enjoyers

[hasty sinew]

Core Dump enjoyers

[sand frost]

But the guy at Matlab said he couldn’t replicate so it’s possibly unique to high resolution screens?

[long verge]

Because CLion pushes CMake which I hate (that's at least why I do)

[sand frost]

I don’t blame him for just deciding videos are scary, I also think videos are scary under the hood with codecs and all that

[hasty sinew]

You don’t like Cmake?

[sand frost]

On the other hand, he gave me a code snippet that only half worked so maybe he didn’t actually test?

[long verge]

no :(

[hasty sinew]

Genuinely why?

[devout vault]

Everyone hates cmake. It's just a matter of if they hate it more/less than other C/C++ build tools

[hasty sinew]

It makes cross compilation and setting flags at compilation so easy

[long verge]

I didn't really try to learn it tho

[rain apex]

Make is fiiiiinnnne

[long verge]

yup

[devout vault]

Cmake, not make

[long verge]

Makefile is the way

[rain apex]

Y'know that might be the other reason why ppl push crab

[devout vault]

Cmake does feel easier to write than make though

[rain apex]

cargo is actually really nice

[hasty sinew]

Writing a makefile by hand seems like hell

I haven’t done that since first semester uni

[devout vault]

I mean, yeah, build system and package system is one of the biggest problems with C++

[hasty sinew]

Sidenote, do I migrate my websites from Node to bun?

[lyric bloom]

When I took C classes some time ago the instructor provided us with a generic makefile for most projects after teaching us make for a few days

[hasty sinew]

I’ve been considering pulling the trigger on it for a while

[rain apex]

I find cmake to be too abstracted to me and I haven't really worked on anything that needs all that yet

[hasty sinew]

I’ll see if I can find an old cmake file from a project

[lyric bloom]

Sadly that was five houses ago and I've lost it lol

[hasty sinew]

I will say, C and C++ needing header files in the big 2025 is one of the number one things driving people away from them

[rain apex]

For small stuff make has enough logic and cross compilation isn't a thing i need to think about

[hasty sinew]

Also the fact that unis love to pretend that c++ is just c with classes

[lyric bloom]

That said I've completely forgotten C and what little C++ I know

[hasty sinew]

I think modern C++ (17 and newer) syntax is utterly disgusting

[long verge]

I don't really mind header files, tbh it's lowkey great to have all functions declarations at the same place

[hasty sinew]

Except they aren’t, they’re spread across 100 header files

For any medium+ complexity project

[devout vault]

Nothing is stopping you from putting them in less files, same as other languages

Not saying it doesn't suck, of course

[hasty sinew]

My employment status, programming and document guidelines

That’s what stops me

[devout vault]

But that's not a C++ problem

[long verge]

Yeah it depends how you organize your project
But i get that it easily a mess with bigger projects

[hasty sinew]

It’s not but the requirements are quite valid, you shouldn’t have a behemoth of a header with 200 function declarations

[devout vault]

True, but that'd be the case for any language

Maybe I missed something in this conversation

[hasty sinew]

You can be a lot more clear in other languages which allows for larger functions without causing communication issues

But C and C++ are very expressive but hard to read languages

[devout vault]

I don't see how (also cat is blocking this monitor now yay)

[long verge]

Can still divide and regroup by theme/purpose without having 100+ header files

[wise galleon]

I learn everything in life using OOP allegories

[hasty sinew]

You’re probably right, I’m very biased by my specific workflow

We need extreme modularity because we deal in embedded systems, and so hardware components are usually plugnplay, and you need seperate HAL for each of them

It’s VERY much not good practice to combine drivers for several devices into one file

[rain apex]

Does the cat have opinions about make

[long verge]

Thus the need for a lot of header files, fair

[devout vault]

His only opinion there was that I wasn't petting him enough

[rain apex]

Please submit a design doc on how to resolve this problem

[hasty sinew]

I’m using my winter break to try compiling Linux from scratch

It will potentially convert me from a dirty WSL user to a Linux native user

[rain apex]

Gentoo 2

[hasty sinew]

I’ve done Gentoo, I’m quite familiar with portage

[rain apex]

What will u name your distro

[hasty sinew]

ICompileFromScratchBtw

Arch users nightmare, they can’t flex

[worn remnant]

linux from scratch is fun. i've done it but i never named the distro because why on earth would i distribute my insanity

[hasty sinew]

I want to try a minimum size terminal only distro

Stripped kernel and all

No languages, not even a shell

[rain apex]

AnyoneCanCookAKernel

[hasty sinew]

I will say

AUR and Pacman is cool

But unfortunately this man has only one distro he’s loyal to

Debian my beloved

[devout vault]

/me glances at half my SDV mods, including my most recent one

[fleet wren]

LFS sounds cool but I never tried it, probably won't ever
(I'm still on Ubuntu and never distro hopped even once)

[worn remnant]

it is fun to do but most of the time it's not practical, i guess unless you worship at the church of flatpak

after you build your own monstrosity, you are the package manager

[fleet wren]

yeah it's definitely not, why would I want to not outsource maintaining my own distro for free

[hasty sinew]

I’m sorry, I only attend the church of emacs

[fleet wren]

also I unfortunately managed to set up a manual build script for hyprland so that's another 6 months minimum before I feel the urge to switch to Arch

[hasty sinew]

On a real note

The reason you’d do LFS is to learn more about Linux under the hood

It’s a phenomenal learning opportunity, you just need to take a little initiative and divert a bit from the given instructions if you follow the guide

That’s the main reason I tried gentoo initially

[fleet wren]

late but I think it's serviceable enough, better than pre-modern C++ for sure (even if you can clearly tell the new features are awkwardly bolted on all the ancient scaffolding underneath it all)
stuff like unique_ptr, <algorithm>, std::optional makes C++ all tolerable to use I still despise the iterator syntax though

(won't ever happen because of backwards compat but I'd love to see the abomination that is std::vector<bool> excised if only on principle)

[cinder karma]

The cat is correct

[cinder karma]

Smh you don't like tight packing?

(I'm literally using bitarray in python these days.)

[devout vault]

Iterators are slightly more bearable when you can bypass them (ie. use the foreach syntax when you can)

[fleet wren]

I like my bits free range and with plenty of space to move

[fleet wren]

there are indeed times when I thought "hmm should I do this in a Haskelly™ way" for vectors mapping/transformations, remembered the iterator syntax, and said "for loop it is"

[cinder karma]

I like my data structures skinner than I am

[hasty sinew]

Where my constexpr users at

[devout vault]

I would say "we need LINQ for C++" but no extension members 😔

[cinder karma]

You like linq but hate rust

Curious

[devout vault]

I guess you could use template nonsense to do something like linq( someContainer ).where( [](x){return x == 1;} ).toVector()

[hasty sinew]

ReactiveX kinda does this

It’s not 1:1 but it’s smth

[devout vault]

Has react in the name, banned

[hasty sinew]

Omg did you hear react got hacked again

[devout vault]

Nothing should remind me of JS

Also I'm super sleepy so need to go nap now that the thing I was doing is done

[hasty sinew]

Node bun deno angular svelte next express react

Spooky JS buzzwords

[safe dragon]

shoutout to svelte

[lethal walrus]

i love running svelte using bun running an express server

[safe dragon]

I'm actually just using node and polka instead of express

[hasty sinew]

I feel very basic using node with npm and react with tailwind

[safe dragon]

I did try bun and it worked well but ultimately I had to make things work in company infrastructure so I just stuck with node

no tailwind cause I prefer regular css

[hasty sinew]

Have you used pnpm?

[safe dragon]

I have not really

[hasty sinew]

Who knew rewriting in c could make npm like 5x faster

(It’s me, I knew)

[safe dragon]

despite npm dying a fair few times I have not had the motivation to try it out

[hasty sinew]

It’s such an easy upgrade too

[safe dragon]

tbh I have like 10 dependencies I have a tendency to do things myself

npm has never really felt slow for me

[devout vault]

Wow, so many dependencies, classic JS developer

[safe dragon]

lmao

soz I didn't write my own datepicker

or svelte

[devout vault]

Next you're gonna tell me you didn't write your own document selector

[safe dragon]

I'm a fraud

I can say a very rare unusual thing and that's that my project's dependencies have 0 known vulnerabilities according to npm

not even mild ones

very unlike what I've experienced in the past where we'd sit at like 200 mild vulnerabilities from random dependencies of dependencies

I suppose react itself is considered a vulnerability now

glad I don't use that

wild stuff going on in react world

[rain apex]

SSR not even once

[odd basin]

do you think C++ could be rebuilt from the ground up to have easier functionality but the same speed?

or, another language could be built that did that

[fleet wren]

yea it's called rust

[odd basin]

I have no rust experience but people say it's equally annoying or harder and slower

[fleet wren]

those people are lying liars

[odd basin]

got it

[devout vault]

I feel like the thing that would need to be redesigned is more the STL

I mean, sure, some language stuff might could use it too

[fleet wren]

on a more serious note the closest thing that you're describing is Google's Carbon

[devout vault]

actually i have a authentic certificate from the person who designed rust saying c++ is superior and always will be. no i cant show it to you, its hiding somewhere in my stack of "things i need to organize", ill find it some day

[fleet wren]

still wip though and gods know when/if it will come out

[devout vault]

I have a friend who mentions wanting to try Beef occasionally

From what I saw on the website though, I'm not interested in using it

Beef is for hamburger helper and better hotdogs than pork ones, and nothing else /s

[hushed raven]

chicken is better
source: noming on a chicken burger
sauce: Smokey BBQ

[devout vault]

In a lot of cases I agree, but for hotdogs in particular I prefer the beef ones

And for hamburger helper I actually prefer ground sausage instead

[hushed raven]

I have never seen beef hotdogs in my life, that sounds like such an odd thing

I would like to try them after they've been on a BBQ

[devout vault]

They're so much better

[modest steppe]

beef dog???

[devout vault]

It's not like ground beef in hotdog shape, if that is what you're thinking

[hushed raven]

that's what I was thinking XD

[odd basin]

just googled Carbon it's very interesting. does anyone have experience with it and thoughts?

[devout vault]

Still normal hot dog "texture", just the flavor is different

[hushed raven]

I have a lot of experience with it, works great for coal and is essential for life

[devout vault]

My dad is a fan of carbon fiber car accessories

[modest steppe]

is this a program

[devout vault]

...or used to be, haven't heard much about it lately

It's a programming language

[modest steppe]

bc i know Carbon like, the element

[devout vault]

"C++ alternative" I believe

[fleet wren]

I would very doubt anyone has experience with it given that it's unfinished and doesn't have a working compiler

[devout vault]

It's been "almost ready" since back when I used SFML

[odd basin]

it's a C++ alternative like rust except backwards compatible with C++ itself so transition would be easier

[sand frost]

Fascinating, I assumed this was the default because I’m pretty sure it’s what Costco sells

[devout vault]

(ie. like 2010-2013ish)

[odd basin]

The language is expected to have an experimental MVP version 0.1 in late 2026 at the earliest and a production-ready version 1.0 after 2028.

[modest steppe]

coscto sells beef dogs?? weren't they chicken

[odd basin]

Carbon is my favorite element so i'm hyped for it

[modest steppe]

oh shit, it was always beef

[hushed raven]

but.. they're sausages... pork.. why are costco hotdogs beef!? XD

[modest steppe]

they used to be kosher

not anymore, but fun fact

i miss Costco hotdog, u need a membership to get one :(

[fleet wren]

Carbon's primary use case as admitted by Google themselves is for companies with millions of lines of C++ that they can't trivially migrate to another language and wants something made in the current century that they can drop on top of

[devout vault]

Sausages are different from hotdogs, I assure you

[fleet wren]

like, y'know, Google

[modest steppe]

u can make sosig from anything

and hot dog is just sosig in bun

[hushed raven]

hotdogs are sausages without a doubt

[devout vault]

Amazon just recommended me this. It knows.

[hushed raven]

it's long, usually pork based, and great on a bbq

[fleet wren]

cats and keyboards, the love story of all time

[devout vault]

This does not, however, solve the problem of them blocking the monitor.

[hushed raven]

you have a VR headset for that

[modest steppe]

cats and programmers have been fighting since ancient times

yeah they can still, loaf on it and bam. no screen for u

[lethal walrus]

i didnt know hotdogs weren't sausages according to some people

[devout vault]

Maybe once the steam frame is out since it's much lighter.

But one problem with VR desktop is the resolution seems to make text harder to read

Which is fine for short periods, but longer periods, not so much

[modest steppe]

my issue would likely be the instant nausea

[devout vault]

I have my virtual desktop set up in VR for the monitors being much bigger than IRL, and the text is still fuzzy

[hushed raven]

the text is thankfully not a concern to me bc shortsighted, but the weight is truly an issue, they're so heavy!

[modest steppe]

solution: let the cat do as they want, as they rule the household

[devout vault]

Yeah VR isn't for everyone for that reason, though sometimes that's just from poorly coded VR software (source: me using stardewVR when I skipped a step).

If there's no movement involved besides what your body actually does, it sometimes is easier for people

And also, high Hz on a desktop monitor can make some people nauseas (including myself), and the highest a lot of VR headsets go does that

[modest steppe]

[devout vault]

I have prescription lenses, it's purely a resolution thing

[devout vault]

Ex. my main monitor can go up to 160 Hz, but I have it set to 100

[modest steppe]

VR always seemed interesting, but also disorienting. than again i get lost in regular games

[devout vault]

Don't play the non-euclidean VR games then

A big problem with VR games and nausea, for a lot of people anyways, is simply the forced movement

[modest steppe]

don't got VR headset

[devout vault]

Which is why a big method of movement a lot of games has is "point the controller and teleport, with a quick black screen in between"

Supposedly things like the arm swinging method of making movement happen, or even the VR treadmills, can help some people

[modest steppe]

yeah i saw games actually let u move-ish and dear lord just watching the footage was rough

[devout vault]

But that's only if the locomotion is the problem for those people

[modest steppe]

arm swinging makes me think of xbox kinect

[devout vault]

To be fair, watching a VR video is very different from actually playing it.

But yeah, some people are just built different (deragotory)

[modest steppe]

true, i am built incorrectly

[odd basin]

i think i like Rust more than C++

[devout vault]

My dad gets motion sickness so easily. He one time couldn't play a super hero MMO - a normal flat screen one, long before VR was a thing not counting the virtual boy - because he got motion sick from the flying

[modest steppe]

i get both motion sick & disoriented so playing those kinds of games with me is FUN /s

but anyway the way xbox kinect games worked is u only move ur arms, which didn't make me sick. just looked weird! those were fun

[devout vault]

We were a nintendo house

[modest steppe]

nintedo didn't have a similar thing did they

[devout vault]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Wii game that did

[modest steppe]

we had and still have a xbox 360

[devout vault]

Not counting Wii Fit

...or Ring Fit on the switch

[modest steppe]

wii sports was similar no

i never wii'd

[devout vault]

Wii Fit, not Sports

[modest steppe]

whats wii fit?

[devout vault]

It wasn't arms though

It was that

[modest steppe]

oh

that looks uncomfy to stand on

[devout vault]

...though I think Wii Sports Resort might've had a mode where you ran around the island using motion controls?

Or maybe that was something in Wii fit

[hushed raven]

yes wii resort does

you chace a dog

[modest steppe]

lovely

[hushed raven]

and if you go too fast you fall on your face

[modest steppe]

lmao

in xbox kinect , don't ask me which game it was a minigame collection, there's a game where u run and jump (only hands) while a military officer yelled at you

this is a core memory

the real life motion tracking was... well...

it sure was, kinda functional

[hushed raven]

I remember kinect adventures and it's tracking was also functional XD

the actual kinect camera is great through, fantastic peice of tech

[modest steppe]

got a hard time knowing its rights and lefts, but so did i so

we connected

yeah i saw caddicarus review some and they worked as intended, so guess it was down to programming?

[hushed raven]

defo was per game

[modest steppe]

cleaning window minigame was always fun. i count it as the reason im so addicted to powerwash sim

[cinder karma]

Hey now

[hushed raven]

you're a rockstar

I have made that joke before, damn

[cinder karma]

I should learn Rockstar so I can become a Rockstar dev

[modest steppe]

u wanna work on gta 6?

[cinder karma]

Otoh if you consider how many energy drinks I go through in a year I'm like 20% Rockstar by mass...

[modest steppe]

wait, wrong rockstar

[cinder karma]

(It's a joke language made by what's his face)

[modest steppe]

[cinder karma]

Rockstar https://share.google/i1KbjHGqvul5JSFEp

[hushed raven]

learn Rockstar, play a guitar, and work for GTA devs, a Rockstar Rockstar working at Rockstar, perfect plan!

[cinder karma]

I'm too dumb to work at Rockstar

Next

Alternatively, my hobbies are the various touching of the grass

[hushed raven]

touching grass? in programming off topic?? unbelievable!

[cinder karma]

I'm your resident grass toucher in chief

[modest steppe]

hows the grass these days

[cinder karma]

Pretty dead