programmers-off-topic

[cinder karma]

....I might not tell him I'm borrowing it

That and the chainsaw

[sand frost]

do not the fingers

[prisma flume]

well what other saw are you going to use to build a table

[sand frost]

fingers must stay attached

that's a rule

[cinder karma]

Yeah, it has a guard

The chainsaw is fun

Elizabeth, can I complain about something

[prisma flume]

can we stop you

[cinder karma]

November 1st is way toooo early to pull out the Christmas lights

As much as I appreciate the extra lighting when running at night

Some people are overachievers

Christmas lights....not before December.. .

[sand frost]

it is currently thanksgiving season

next holiday can wait its turn

[cinder karma]

Making the rest of us look bad...

[sand frost]

also christmas is a mid-tier holiday, that's my hot take

[cinder karma]

I'll be in china over Thanksgiving so I'll be skipping that holiday

[sand frost]

i'll mail you some bird

[cinder karma]

Christmas is a fine holiday

[sand frost]

i will not and i don't know how

[cinder karma]

What's your ranking

Kailey successfully mailed me geese

[sand frost]

thanksgiving is best holiday, because i have an excellent excuse to make 20 different dishes and invite all my friends over

no fair the geese still have wings

[prisma flume]

thanksgiving is the worst holiday i could name

[cinder karma]

Christmas isnt bad if you do secret santa

[sand frost]

chinese new years might be even better because it doens't have the baggage, but we don't get days off so worse

[cinder karma]

Thanksgiving....i need more friends

[sand frost]

also i always feel the need to steam fish and it's kind of messy

[cinder karma]

Mid autumn is tasty

[sand frost]

i am stealing my friend's house for thanksgiving

mid autumn is full of nuts

[prisma flume]

amusingly my company is mostly chinese so we do get the lunar new year off to go eat yumcha

[cinder karma]

Easter is a meh holiday

[sand frost]

and (tinytext) i think mooncakes are bland

[cinder karma]

Labour day is fine....blasmephy

[sand frost]

easter is a nothing holiday, we never even get a day off and peeps are not worth it

[prisma flume]

but then we go and eat yumcha for basically any occasion anyway

[sand frost]

is yumcha dimsum?

[cinder karma]

Mooncakes are tasty

[prisma flume]

absolutely

[cinder karma]

So are zongzi

[prisma flume]

we also get easter off 🥳 i love labour laws

[sand frost]

sadly zongzi and i have a complicated history

a lot of attempted murder on its part

bit of a checkered past

[cinder karma]

Peanut oil?

[sand frost]

peanuts themselves, mostly

[cinder karma]

Oh. Even the sweet ones?

[sand frost]

the oil is survivable though not ideal (unless it's unrefined)

depends on whose sweet ones 😂

in some places adding peanuts is just considered an unmitigated plus

[prisma flume]

oh i like a few kinds of zongzi. nice to know the name for them

[sand frost]

more protein more better or something

[cinder karma]

My dad's union gave them all gift cards to a mooncake shop

[sand frost]

i think vietnam also has zongzi under a diff name

really really plain ones i can sometimes eat, like "just pork" or "just red bean"

[cinder karma]

Have you ever made your own

I love dumplings

It's a family tradition to make them

With home grown chives

Zongzi I've not made

[prisma flume]

i had no idea sun cakes were a thing but they're on sale now around here

[sand frost]

1. thanksgiving
2. chinese new years
3. new year's if there's fireworks
4. i guess christmas
5. new year's if no fireworks
6. labor day? i only sometimes get it off

what are holidays even

i guess 4th of july should make the list for fireworks

[cinder karma]

I dont have a good ranking

[sand frost]

i also do not get memorial day or veterans day off

[cinder karma]

I'm not a huge fan of food as a general concept for a holiday

[sand frost]

i get mlk off but only because it's during winter break

[prisma flume]

food is the best reason for a holiday

what else are you going to do on a holiday

[cinder karma]

Hiking

[sand frost]

i love an excuse to make more food than anyone can eat

truly the sign to my ancestors that i've made it in life

i like hannukkah for the potato pancakes, i love those, but i'm too lazy to deep fry

[cinder karma]

I'm not sure i like any holiday tbh

[sand frost]

diwali seems cool but i've never participated

you could like the ones with the most days off best

more hiking more better?

[cinder karma]

I'm still too close to the years where all holidays were was no classes lol

[sand frost]

thanksgiving i feel ranks up there because typically don't you get at least 2 days?

[prisma flume]

crimbo > easter > labour day > new years > all hallow's > anzac day > queen's birthday > australia day >

[sand frost]

ooh i forgot halloween, i gotta put that at like maybe #2

[cinder karma]

Halloween can be fun in theory

[sand frost]

halloween is an excellent excuse to sew elaborate costumes

and eat too much candy

[cinder karma]

I'm just a killjoy I'm sorry

A tired killjoy

[prisma flume]

i suppose i should slide chinese new year and mid-autumn festival in there since we don't work those days

[sand frost]

st paddy's is a pretty low tier holiday

not a huge fan

(i'm on the wikipedia article of holidays)

valentine's is alright, not one of the big ones tho imo

[cinder karma]

St paddy is terrible

Valentines i ignore

[prisma flume]

no comment on forgetting valentine's day exists

this is programming chat after all

[cinder karma]

New years is fine as long as the people setting off the fireworks arent drunk

Oh

And I get to go to bed at 10pm

[sand frost]

my family likes to pick a time zone to celebrate new year's

often not our own

[cinder karma]

I like to celebrate new years with the British

[sand frost]

i had a nice time once in hawaii, they are so big on fireworks there and i had a nice view over the town from where i was staying

[cinder karma]

Maybe next year I'll celebrate ir with the Australians

[sand frost]

im very suspicious of what time zone that works out to 😛

we used to pick east coast from the west coast (9pm)

[cinder karma]

I might change my tune if i get to launch some fireworks

[prisma flume]

first in, last out cold 🍻

[sand frost]

i like the fireworks near other peoples fingers not mine, preferably trained people

[prisma flume]

except for the tongans and fijians and new caledonians and ..

[cinder karma]

I like the idea of designing fireworks

Who doesnt want to play with small rockets

And metal powders

[sand frost]

yep it's the rule

don't set off the fire alarm is a pretty distant 2nd

[cinder karma]

Hush I'm a professional

Professional idiot

[prisma flume]

'try to avoid inconveniencing the emergency services with your inconvenient emergencies' is a solid rule

[sand frost]

Marathon Monday (local name in Boston for Patriot's Day)
i love that this made the wikipedia page "list of holidays"

[cinder karma]

I did rocketry club in HS

[sand frost]

pi day is a solid holiday, except that i don't like making pie

[cinder karma]

Once I twisted my ankle and limped home

[sand frost]

it's too much fuss

not a finger, checks out under the rules

[cinder karma]

Hot take tau day is better

Two pies!

[prisma flume]

well these barely count as holidays

[cinder karma]

I should bake some pies for work next year

[sand frost]

i make pie once a year for thanksgiving

and by make, i mean "delegate to my husband or brothers"

[cinder karma]

I actually kinda like making pie

It's weird.

[sand frost]

you also like making bread, so i feel this almost makes sense to me

i also am too lazy for bread

though i have bread machine i might put to work

[cinder karma]

Today I drove two miles out of my way for a $1 pizza lol

[sand frost]

i guess that could be worth it given some usual mpg

[cinder karma]

And i need to redeem this stupid coupon for three free books

[sand frost]

books!

[cinder karma]

My car is supposed to be 30mpg

[prisma flume]

certified software developer. accepts pizza as compensation

[cinder karma]

Supposed to be.

My dumb ass forgot to enable green mode after doing my last battery change

And I literally spent a week trying to figure out why the mileage was suddenly lower

When the answer was "did you hit the better mileage button? No?"

[sand frost]

it's very funny cars have such buttons

like, i know why and how

but still

"just hit the better mileage button, obvs" is so patently funny

[cinder karma]

It is less power but who needs more power lol

[sand frost]

maybe if you lived at the top of a steep hill?

[cinder karma]

Maybe if it iced over

If I lived in a steep hill I would gear shift to S

[prisma flume]

definitely the most unusual chair i've seen
https://desky.com.au/products/kneeling-chair

[cinder karma]

My dad gave me a kneeling chair

It's....fine

[sand frost]

no pictures of someone in the chair???

oh i had to scroll

[prisma flume]

there's someone at my work who almost exclusively works kneeling. not on a chair, just on the floor

monk-like behaviour

[sand frost]

i like to sit criss cross in my office chairs sometimes but i've never moved to the floor

well, not with anyone else in the room or the door open — sometimes i do need a little lie down on the floor

[cinder karma]

I kneel at my desk sometimes

[prisma flume]

i do at home on occasion, but a better sitting/standing setup would probably kill that

hopefully

[cinder karma]

I need a better (read any) home desk setup lol

[prisma flume]

did you just write your mods in bed orrrr

[cinder karma]

(I recently moved)

[prisma flume]

ahhh right haha

.. maybe i should buy the acacia 120x75cm for 1000aud so i feel better about buying a 150x75cm teak for 1650aud as my main desk later

can we get a #home-office-furniture-off-topic thanks

actually yeah i'm set on that. solid plan. good wood. reasonable amount of excessive spending

[hushed raven]

"reasonable amount of excessive spending" is a wild sentence that I didn't know I follow XD

[dusty pollen]

hmm, setting my vpn service to delayed start didn't fix the race condition with my network card

god I hate windows

and this vpn provider

[hushed raven]

I always giggle when someone has issues with windows because I know I have had those exact issues

if your vpn provider supports it, add the tunnel configuration as another network thing (I don't know the right terminology sorry)

[dusty pollen]

reminder that this is a thing that subscription companies do btw (offering a cheaper rate when you go to cancel)

[dusty pollen]

I have no idea what you mean ngl

I wonder if switching protocol will help, gonna try openvpn udp

[hushed raven]

had to load windows vm to find the right thing bc it has a different name, but its in Windows Settings > Network & internet > VPN then click Add VPN, if you're using the VPN providers program, this may have better mileage

if you're already using this though, I am out of suggestions unfortunately

Oh and when it says provider, set it to "Windows (built-in)" it should automatically load windows with that connection started

[dusty pollen]

oh you lose automatic server switching though

[hushed raven]

ahhh that is one negative

[dusty pollen]

which is a feature so important I built myself a utility for it on linux for my previous vpn provider especially since this one's uk servers are so bad that half the time I connect to europe

[hushed raven]

The worst thing is when it says in tiny text almost the same colour as the background that it's paid yearly, taking a large sum out at once rather than monthly I hate it

[dusty pollen]

I prefer the large sums. they tend to be significantly cheaper and if you have the money upfront they also allow you to plan your finances better because you don't have to calculate per month

[hushed raven]

I have yet to experience poor speed with mine so far, I usually connect to Canada too and it's pretty comparable to my normal internet

[dusty pollen]

-# who are you using

[hushed raven]

IPVanish

[dusty pollen]

I've never heard of them lmao

[hushed raven]

Stole the account from my father XD

[dusty pollen]

with vpns I tend to stick to the big names tbh

[hushed raven]

we've been using them for YEARS, I thought they were a big name ngl

[dusty pollen]

once this subscription is over I may go back to nord

nvm I may go back now, black friday sales

[hushed raven]

Ooo I forgot about black friday, shal have to have a browse for games and hardware on sale

[dusty pollen]

for once I know that's actually kind of what their usual price is

[hushed raven]

I find the best way to find a decent VPN is to actually search for the controversies and discourse surrounding them, rather than regular reviews, which is very useful when nearly all providers include extra things to inflate the price, like, I just want a VPN to change my location to access things, I don't need antimalware, dark web scanning, etc, I can get another company to do that

Oh and I don't need AI slop that's also paired with it, which is getting harder and harder to find

[dusty pollen]

I just want reliable connection and ad blocking tbh. and the only nordvpn controversy I saw was stupid (imo)

[hushed raven]

The only controversy for nord I can see was from 2019 when a breach happened and the server was destroyed

[dusty pollen]

the server or a server?

[hushed raven]

sorry, the server that had the breach was destroyed

[dusty pollen]

lmao "threat found" oh wow, what? "7zip"

thanks nord, I will continue ignoring your threat detection feature

[hushed raven]

What is with the influx of discord users adding me, I'd get it if the SDV server was a mutual server but they have like no mutual anything

[lethal walrus]

I've heard of them but not really because they're a big name

[hushed raven]

I'm guessing you've heard about the contradictory "no logs" clause that they totally ignored and actually logged and set the logs to the FBI?

[lethal walrus]

I have not

[hushed raven]

Www well that's some new info for you, it was 2016 I think? and they've since been acquired by someone else since then XD

[lethal walrus]

Ah

Well no plans to use them, been a PIA User for years and just trying mullvad the last few weeks

[dusty pollen]

wait, the FBI? is their data jurisdiction in the US?

[hushed raven]

it was, I don't think so anymore however but I'm not certain

[dusty pollen]

why would any vpn base themselves in the US

there's a reason most of them are based on various small caribbean islands and the likes

[hushed raven]

I have absolutely no idea, the UK or US certainly aren't countries I'd choose for sure

[devout vault]

why would any [one] base themselves in the US
Fixed that for you ~~totally not tired being stuck here given The Times ™ ~~

[lethal walrus]

Or sweden

Which is surprising given its a 14 eyes country iirc but they survived police raids

-# I'm referring to mullvad here

[hushed raven]

C++ is confusing (or g++ not sure which one) int r = inputString.length() - 1; broke the program due to the -Wconversion flag preventing illicit casting from a larger to smaller data type, that's all good and all, after explicitly casting, running the program with no errors, then removing the explicit cast (to see the error again bc I forgot it) it ran perfectly, what happened to the warning? wtf

okay wait no it's still there but in the different terminal, but like why did it stop the program from running the first time but not the 3rd time when it was back to it's original?

[devout vault]

Sounds like it didn't rebuild properly

But yeah, C++ uses std::size_t for that sort of thing (which I think is pointer-sized, not strictly 4 bytes? and is also unsigned)

Honestly, it confused me more when I started using C# and the type used for that sort of thing is always signed.

Like... it makes more sense to me for a length to be unsigned???

I assume its so stuff like IndexOf can return -1 (while C++ uses its iterators for that sort of thing usually, or something like std::string::npos in some cases)

[hushed raven]

I agree, length being unsigned makes so much more sense, I guess in geometry signed for a length makes perfect sense, but not for a string??

[lyric bloom]

c# also tries to stop you from doing certain dumb things. :V

[devout vault]

I mean in geometry it doesn't either

Since length is a scalar value, not a vector value

Like, should never see an (x,y).length be negative

[hushed raven]

Sorry I should clarify I mean plotting stuff on a graph which now thinking about it isn't geometry XD

[devout vault]

Do you mean that this is one of those cases? Or just in general?

[hushed raven]

I did quickly try to see what happens by creating a negative length, and a grant total of absolutely nothing happened, I'm guessing it just floors it to 0 given no error was tossed

[lyric bloom]

I think it's probably one of those things. If you remember the Nulalble thing, I participated in the testing in that

and it's meant to have the compiler track any possible nulls

but becuase of how SDV works, they kinda ewnt "Yeah, this isn't a case we can really set the compiler to track"

[devout vault]

I guess I don't quite understand how having Length type values being signed instead of unsigned is C# preventing dumb things. Or am I misunderstanding you?

[lyric bloom]

I'm tired.I htink the reason for that is

"the length shouldn't be negative, so we might as well use signed values"

[devout vault]

But if the length can't be negative, why allow negative values even in theory. (is my train of thought)

[lyric bloom]

usigned lets you do stuff like

-10

signed int will throw errors at -10

[devout vault]

I think C++ will either error or warn if you try to put a negative constant into an unsigned value

And I would think the same for C#

(I'm not sure I've ever tried since I rarely use unsigned types in C#)

[safe dragon]

me neither

even when it can't be negative

[supple ether]

It would be neat if it just used the raw byte value if you had an unchecked block

[pliant snow]

Will C# silently underflow unsigned values

I could understand that at least, make them signed, have it throw an error if it's negative. Otherwise, it could silently underflow from 0 to 255 or whatever, and you wouldn't have a good way of detecting it

[cinder karma]

Yes

C# is unchecked by default

[lyric bloom]

yes, C# won't stop you from doing that. :V

[devout vault]

That’s surprising

[cinder karma]

Some people (me) have c# set to do the rust like behavior where debug enables checked

[lyric bloom]

it's not Rust. <_<

[devout vault]

It may not be rust, but like, it feels like something it would do by default but not in unchecked blocks

[lyric bloom]

c# has a lot of optional things you can do, iirc, if you want stricter checking but it's not by default

[pliant snow]

The rust behavior is nice, up until it's annoying lol

[cinder karma]

Ngl

Every time that has ever caught something for me

[pliant snow]

suddenly all arithmatic is wrapping_add calls

[cinder karma]

It was me forgetting to shove something into an unchecked block

Ie, I was doing stupid hash shit and wanted the overflow behavior

[devout vault]

(Dang it, I’m out crab repellant. My stockpile is worthless since it turns out I got scammed and it’s really something else (as discussed here recently))

(Just because I can’t repel the crabs doesn’t mean I’m going to join the crab rave, though)

[lyric bloom]

it's coming. You cannot resist the crab rave.

... mostly because it's in apt now

[pliant snow]

I'm pretty sure rust has been in apt for a long time

[lyric bloom]

it actually hasn't

I know of this one specifically because a recent email got sent ot hte Debian mailing list about replacing it and warning some ports about it

(but tbf, it's been in some kernal subsystems foar a while, so)

[pliant snow]

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/rustup

Rustup has been in for like two years now

[lyric bloom]

that does not mean apt has been written in rust?

[pliant snow]

Oh in apt itself

I thought you just mean in its repositories

[cinder karma]

https://youtu.be/VaXotVmc7h4?si=pbnBdU-S4Or2n4z9

[devout vault]

I don’t use Linux

(Until my framework arrives, anyways)

[lyric bloom]

Fair, I don't either yet.

[cinder karma]

You'll use Linux now Casey, though

Welcome to thr cult

We have cookies

[hushed raven]

penguin shaped cookies

[lyric bloom]

that have a 5% chance of failing miserably requiring you to debug the cookie dispenser using outdated stackoverflow and askubuntu posts

[safe dragon]

I end up on the archwiki vastly more often than askubuntu

[lyric bloom]

I could see it, tbh. I usually use Mint so

[safe dragon]

even then

[hushed raven]

I ended up reinstalling nvidia drivers more than ending up on the arch wiki, I can probably count on both my hands the amount of issues that haven't been nvidia driver iisues XD

[safe dragon]

I bought an amd gpu when I made the switch to Linux for good reason

[hushed raven]

I'm thinking of swapping to an AMD GPU when I upgrade mine but I have no idea what the compatibility is like, especially with an intel CPU

[safe dragon]

I tried to use the Nvidia gpu for like 2 more years on Linux but it was just too much of a pain

[devout vault]

Power outage, and my laptop has no games 😔

[hushed raven]

I was going to suggest web games... I'm sure you can see the flaw in my thinking

[devout vault]

I could play on my steam deck

Or I could use my VR headset (which I also have backup batteries for)

Both are charged

But most of the VR games I have are on my desktop for use via connection, not on the headset itself

I’ve been curious about how well Godot + gravity sketch would work, though

…and probably a pixel art editor, since I don’t think gravity sketch can do textures

There is now a cat sleeping on my leg

I guess I’m doing neither

Oh, .net 10 is out? I didn’t realize it was soon

[safe dragon]

oh right it's november

[devout vault]

Apparently there is a paw on my leg as well

I know those because I felt the claws

[hushed raven]

certainly can't be angree though

those beans are made for clawing and that just what they'll do, one of these days those claws aint coming for you

[devout vault]

I’m only upset because he did this before I got one of the devices, not after

So not I’m stuck with just my phone

I am in a rolling chair, so maybe I could reach something without disturbing him? It’s risky to try, though

[hushed raven]

Oh that is very riskey

depends what kinds of floor you have

wood floors it could be possible, carpet however would be difficult

[devout vault]

Wood

But right after he got up to scratch (so I could get a device), the power came back on

[crystal wren]

Damn, I missed getting to rename the channel.

[cinder karma]

You could do it again!

https://youtu.be/MEHi7FZjSYw?si=2wxyDIO-HtY6xWX_

[hushed raven]

Well this is a new linux issue... firefox has entirely just died, it crashed, restarted it and now it isn't loading

wow, thanks firefox for making me eat my words, as I pressed send it loaded

[cinder karma]

(Yeahhhh.... 🙁 )

(The only reason I would get a nividia gpu is for cuda.)

[fleet wren]

some people are claiming Valve Deckard announcement this week

bring it on I'm ready to be disappointed

[red crest]

sounds like a fake name someone would come up with when put on the spot in their disguise

[crystal wren]

Give new VR. Now.

[prisma flume]

is .NET November really something to look forward to each year

[prisma flume]

yes but they're also claiming half-life 3 this week so probably ignore it

[pliant snow]

theres a playstation thing in 30 minutes

[cinder karma]

What's a Playstation

[fleet wren]

what you play mario on

[cinder karma]

What's mario

[fleet wren]

what you play on a playstation

brb apologizing to the giant crab god in the sky for committing the cardinal Rust sin of circular references

[hushed raven]

Can I make bisque with Rust?

[pliant snow]

How much does a projector go for these days

[lethal walrus]

println!("bisque")

[lethal walrus]

film or digital? new or from a school upgrading to big tablets?

[hushed raven]

depends what kind, if a standard digital one that works by HDMI, I got mine for about £40 on amazon, 1080 res and max clear size of (apparently) 10 foot

if you don't need a 10 foot view, you can get it cheaper

.wolfram 10 feet to metres

[heavy dagger]

3.048 meters

[hushed raven]

-# Quicker than usual, good bot

.wolfram 40 gbp to usd

[heavy dagger]

$52.59 (US dollars) (November 10, 2025)

[hushed raven]

oof wow thats a bit more than I though

[pliant snow]

that's actually less than I thought

my aunt was looking at getting one, who knows what she actually needs

[hushed raven]

I like it, it's great, worth the money imo, I just can't use it much anymore bc nowhere to put it and my walls are black and full of stuff but oh well

[cinder karma]

Ah, the goth aesthetic

[hushed raven]

exactly, paired with the moody lighting and all, I wouldn't recommend it however, I can't see my shoes and fall over often

[devout vault]

I’ve been checking the subreddit every day for weeks and noticed the same thing

No computer time for Casey

…although he moved to the bed now (which doesn’t fix it, because he did so for attention)

[devout vault]

I mean it is the code name not actual name, from what I understand

[devout vault]

But yes. Gib now

[lethal walrus]

Are you not freezing barefoot on wooden floors

[devout vault]

I find it funny when I see people disappointed with the controller leak and then not being like the Knuckles from the Index and instead just having more buttons, but like…. That’s exactly what I wanted

[devout vault]

I mean I’m in FL

Outdoors would be pretty uncomfy yeah

[lethal walrus]

Oh yeah that explains warmth

[devout vault]

But like, even then, my parents have never really kept it super low in winter

Lower than hot time, sure

[lethal walrus]

You and your "air conditioning"

We have windows and heat.

[devout vault]

I also see (presumably other people, no goomba fallacy here) people saying if the screen isn’t OLED they won’t get it. Which I also don’t quite get

[devout vault]

I’m not sure FL is a place where it’s reasonable to not have AC. (I know hotter places get by without it, but like, the houses here just aren’t designed for that sort of thing 😛 )

[lethal walrus]

I prefer to boil in my house with artificial heat :)

[devout vault]

In other news of "things that are probably overhyped and probably won't happen as soon as people think but would be nice if it did", hytale

[devout vault]

My chief complaint with exercising isn't actually the exercise (despite not liking that part too), it's the sweating.

I've always sweated super easily though

All that to say: no boiling, thanks

[lethal walrus]

Name reservation... mixed feelings on that

In a way yes I think Simon hypixel shouldn't be impersonated but people are going to be preselling reserved names

...where do I go to reserve pillow

[devout vault]

I didn't even pick up on that. I guess I assumed it was more about a nickname changing system and didn't think about the meaning of "reservation" specifically

[lethal walrus]

Could be

[pliant snow]

I thought hytale was super cancelled

[cinder karma]

ideally houses are designed for hot weather but some dumb idiots decided to rely on AC instead, and by some dumb idiots, I mean all of the US

Hi. I'm a local dumb idiot

[pliant snow]

Except that a lot of houses were built before AC was common, it was just cheaper to build them not designed for hot weather

[cinder karma]

real talk I know it won't happen for like a decade but I'd like to build my own house some day

with nice things like...awnings

....and with nice things like ... me making sure it was built right

and energy efficient windows...

and solar panels.....

and roofs with good venting....

and lots of insulation

[lethal walrus]

Imagine if this was standard, but then how will they make their margins‽

[cinder karma]

anyways

I'm betting on "does not need to turn on the heater" yet

(for the record, we're getting down to 38F)

[pliant snow]

are you saying i should actually fix the fact that my front door doesnt seal properly

[cinder karma]

absolutely

[pliant snow]

dang

[devout vault]

It was

(or, is seeming-to-going-to-be-returning - the deal between Mr. Hypixel and Riot hasn't been finalized yet, but I assume if it was off the table it would've been made clear a while ago)

[lethal walrus]

I do appreciate that everyone headcannons Simons name as Simon hypixel

[devout vault]

I mean I mainly said that because "Hypixel" is a lot more clear who I'm talking about than "Simon" 😛

-# (inb4 atra says "who's simon")

[cinder karma]

he's the guy from simon says

everyone knows that

[devout vault]

Dang it I was gonna make that joke when you asked anyways

Guess I’m stuck with just the follow up

These days I’d prefer watching Sam Says instead

[devout vault]

It’s bizarre that there’s no ms paint type app on iPhones by default. The photo editor is better than it used to be, but I can’t put a photo on another one (but shapes and text and stickers and … I can???)

I found one called Paint 98, but the controls kinda suck.

Anyways: me when I hear Mozart making noises on my desk after I go to bed, and it suddenly goes quiet

[lyric bloom]

So I have a fun new project for myself

given a climate code, write a script that can spit out sample weather. 😄

this is surprsingly difficult

[devout vault]

It has arrived. (Weird framing because my address and stuff)

I wasn’t expecting it until the end of the week

Not sure why it says ship date 10th of November

…wait

It is November

I interpreted that as last month for some reason

Curses, fingernails weren’t listed as one of the prerequisites!

…this doesn’t exist, it seems to have already been removed?

[safe dragon]

I booted up my pc and the font on discord now looks slightly wrong

it looks sharper than it normally did I think

wonder what random ass update did that

[pliant snow]

Update 4/6

[safe dragon]

never trusted that one

[devout vault]

Now I just need to pick a linux distro

Should've done that ahead of time to be honest

Should I use arch, solely for the meme

Hmmm

Also, gotta say: while I was already interested in frameworks (hence getting one), after actually putting one together I like it a lot more than I was expecting

I've never even heard of bazzite

[safe dragon]

I'm fairly convinced bazzite is popular purely from people with steam decks who convinced themselves that the steam deck desktop mode is actually where linux peaks

[devout vault]

I've heard the whole flatpak thing can be really annoying though

[safe dragon]

yeah if you like to tinker and do anything that isn't install premade applications then I would generally avoid an immutable distro like bazzite

[devout vault]

Oof

So I guess that leaves fedora or ubuntu

Or a "compatible community supported", but this is baby's first real linux computer

[safe dragon]

no one uses ubuntu in 2025 man

unless they've just been using it for over a decade

[devout vault]

I wondered when I saw it

Since I basically never hear about it anymore

[safe dragon]

fwiw I don't think it matters

I use arch on mine and I've never had to do anything special

Fedora is neat but I dislike its package management a lot

[devout vault]

smh, where's the "btw"

[safe dragon]

soz

linux mint is good I like that one

[devout vault]

Setup required for WiFi/bluetooth?????

(I could not care less about fingerprint reader, I refuse to use that sort of thing on my phone for example)

[safe dragon]

hmm

I never had wifi issues

I know some people replace the wifi card in the framework

[hushed raven]

Doesnt set up required just mean installing the right drivers? pretty standard for any Arch install

[safe dragon]

I don't think framework is using any fancy drivers that aren't in the modern kernel arch would ship with

[fleet wren]

it's weird that they list Mint as not officially supporting the fingerprint reader even though IIRC they use the same repo as Ubuntu

tbh might just be a "cover their ass" thing

[safe dragon]

not quite anymore since linux mint didn't want to do the whole Snap package thing

but yeah

[fleet wren]

are linux drivers distributed via snaps

[safe dragon]

definitely not right... right

generally drivers are just in the kernel you don't consciously install em

[pliant snow]

I mean, set up is required for everything in Arch

[safe dragon]

true

[pliant snow]

if you install networkmanager and start it, you'll have wifi

[hushed raven]

That's pretty much my thought process, it's a very DIY distro, great for someone who likes to control stuff, not so much for someone who wants an out of the box experience

[devout vault]

I don't mind terminal stuff since I've used it plenty via ssh and also locally, but I don't want to have to deal with it for day to day stuff

[safe dragon]

I uninstalled networkmanager from my laptop cause it seemingly dropped my network speed from 900 mbps to 100 mbps

idk why

I just configure directly via iwctl

[devout vault]

I don't need a "average person wants to not use windows" experience, since I'd like to think my technical understanding is higher than that 😛

[pliant snow]

Once it's set up, you can largely ignore the terminal if you want

it does make you less of a person tho

[safe dragon]

it's actually been a few years since I've used a gui package manager...

[devout vault]

I don't need to be able to ignore it completely either

[hushed raven]

Last time I used the terminal was 2 days ago bc my driver broke (my own fault) before that it was just trying out hyprland, actualy terminal usage for setting up lasted no longer than 2 days (due to my own stupidity XD)

[safe dragon]

last time I used the terminal was like 30 minutes ago to run my package updates

[devout vault]

I don't mind a non-gui, unless I'm just exploring what's available I suppose

I also don't want to spend days doing setup, though

[safe dragon]

just run archinstall and especially if you're picking KDE or Gnome or something you're basically done

[marble jewel]

The benefit (to me) of being a Terminal power-user is that I can have a consistent experience on multiple operating systems and whether I'm accessing them locally or remotely

[hushed raven]

Wholely agree, it's consistant across many different terminals too

[safe dragon]

the only thing I always do after an arch install is just install a bunch of noto sans fonts

[devout vault]

Yeah, I'm not gonna have to relearn everything command line since I always prefer bash and msys stuff over windows native things, when possible

[hushed raven]

Oh ye if you do choose arch, install fonts, noto sans is good, if you use other picture glyphs, a nerd font too

[pliant snow]

the only thing I always do after an arch install is just go outside to receive the adoring admiration of my peers

[marble jewel]

My .dotfiles repo has a ton of stuff that allows me to set things up on a brand new machine with little effort

[safe dragon]

I technically have a dotfiles repo

my pc doesn't use it

[devout vault]

If this were a "solely to tinker around with" machine, I'd be willing to do arch

[hushed raven]

Thank you for reminding me I need to make a dotfiles repo (not that I know which files to toss in there)

[devout vault]

But the main usage of this laptop is for my work

I'd be willing to tinker with it outside of work hours, but kinda need the core experience to be fine as well

[fleet wren]

Linux terminal usage is that bell curve meme that goes "you can't use Linux without the terminal" "nooo Linux is fully usable with GUI only" "you indeed can't use Linux without the terminal"

[cinder karma]

Hey now

I get to call me old

[hushed raven]

honestly for something like work I would suggest a more stable distro than arch, something that isn't rolling realease but thats personal opinion, others will disagree

[pliant snow]

I imagine that if you just used archinstall, you'd have the exact same set up experience as Mint or whatever

[devout vault]

What even is a dotfiles repo? Like, .bashrc, .ssh, etc.?

If you have a .gitignore as part of said repo, is that considered one of your dotfiles, or not?

[cinder karma]

I have one

[pliant snow]

It's up to you, whatever configuration files you want backed up

[safe dragon]

dotfiles usually just means "config files you want to save"

[pliant snow]

Mine is like, three files

[hushed raven]

to my knowledge it's just a place for you configs, usually go into .config hence the dotfiles name

[devout vault]

I mainly just wanted to make that snark about .gitignore

[fleet wren]

I had a giga old dotfiles repo, haven't been updated in ages though (it was for my old day/night dynamic Gruvbox i3 setup)

[marble jewel]

Mine has install instructions and config

[safe dragon]

I have like 5

[pliant snow]

actually I have some old ones in here I don't really use, but only 3 that I would actually immediately add on a new machine

[cinder karma]

Mine doesnt have instructions

It just has a setup.sh

Let's see

[devout vault]

Makes sense. I did pay for it with my own money and may in theory end up playing on it if I take it if I go out of town, but for now the primary purpose is work

[cinder karma]

I have a list of packages to install

[marble jewel]

And mine are shared across Windows, MacOS, Arch, and Ubuntu

[cinder karma]

Ouch

[hushed raven]

Mine certainly would have a script to install the main programs I will always want across different computers like firefox, code, etc but that isn't a requirement at all

[safe dragon]

mine is literally just a few configs for shit like my waybar and helix

[pliant snow]

I had lists of things to install and maintain and all that, then came to the conclusion that I was setting every computer up differently anyway

[cinder karma]

Mine has a custom Xmodmap

For Dvorak

I'm so ancient

It also sets up xmonad

[hushed raven]

I should probably toss in my winget install script too, if I can find it that is

[cinder karma]

Oh my god I'm ancient

[safe dragon]

smh it's the wayland era now no more xmodmap

[cinder karma]

I'm oldddddd

It also has a custom python package which is dataclasses but worse

[fleet wren]

I'm still surprised the year of Wayland desktops arrived

[marble jewel]

What simplifies things for me is choosing to use Homebrew for the majority of my app installs, but I also use apt, cargo, cask, npm, pacman, yay, winget, scoop, and choco

[fleet wren]

I guess if you keep slugging it out it will happen

[safe dragon]

gnome has so desperately tried to prevent wayland from happening by blocking every development effort that has ever been made but it finally works for most people

[hushed raven]

talking about python, not using pip on Arch still confuses me

[cinder karma]

You what

God

[devout vault]

I should've expected the conversation to almost immediately go away from my original question of what distro to use. That's on me

[cinder karma]

When I get back from china I'm gonna put arch on the primary laptop

Since using windows is no longer in thr budget 😛

[marble jewel]

My personal choice as of late is CachyOS which is arch based

[devout vault]

Upsides of mint:

• it has a "cinnamon" edition
  Downsides of mint
• i dislike mint flavors

[hushed raven]

temple os obvs

[cinder karma]

I used mint for years

[marble jewel]

CachyOS gives you different default options on start so you can play around with different desktops

[safe dragon]

linux mint is essentially the one to use if you just want something stable that works and aren't too bothered about the packages being out of date

[cinder karma]

It is Ubuntu but more annoying

If you want to use mint just put cinnamon on a normal Ubuntu install

[hushed raven]

so does arch? unless I'm misunderstanding

[cinder karma]

That said

I'm mad at Ubuntu for breaking my primary machine over shitty programming

[devout vault]

I know you were joking, but if it somehow could run dotnet 6 SDK and rider, I'd be willing to consider it if you somehow had a reasonable argument for it 😛

[safe dragon]

why is it more annoying

[cinder karma]

So I'm off this ship

[marble jewel]

CachyOS is just Arch with some of it's own open source defaults for performance and ease of setup

[cinder karma]

No dist upgrade

You're installing from scratch every few years

[fleet wren]

why would you ever program on anything but HolyC on TempleOS

[devout vault]

What are the downsides of packages being out of date? I assume security fixes would come by fast, and you mainly mean features and such.

Also, how out of date are we talking

[hushed raven]

Ahhh gotcha that makes more sense then

[safe dragon]

no? you just install the new version via the upgrade manager

[cinder karma]

Okay maybe my info is a decade out of date

But 10 years ago they refused to do dist upgrades

[safe dragon]

shoutout to the time I only had a 1.5 GB usb drive and ended up installing some 5 year old linux mint version cause it was the last one small enough to fit on it and then spent several hours going through the version upgrades one at a time

[devout vault]

Because I doubt I can convince CA to port SDV to HolyC.

This is a work machine after all, not a personal one

[marble jewel]

Like when you install, you can choose your flavor so that it's more similar to Mac, Windows, or other (I chose Niri) https://wiki.cachyos.org/installation/desktop_environments/

[safe dragon]

the archinstall command essentially does this too

one of the steps is picking your environment

mostly the same list

[marble jewel]

That's not the only reason for choosing Cachy, but it's just one I'm mentioning

[safe dragon]

cachyos install a lot more though. If you install a window manager via archinstall you're probably not going to get any panel/waybar, no wallpaper and no notification daemon

[fleet wren]

all you need is God's Light and His Divine Guidance And Other Grand Capitalized Words and you'll be making mods in HolyC in no time

[devout vault]

I'm not talking about mods though. I may have already tinkered with native code for mods, when thinking about using godot for one of my main recent code crime mods

[fleet wren]

I just looked up CachyOS since I've only vaguely heard of it and got flashbanged with ||Blazingly Fast||

[marble jewel]

I felt like it was a good amount of hand-holding to get started, and I've since customized/changed things more to my liking

[hushed raven]

side question for people familiar with Niri, on a multimonitor set up, can one screen be a tile based and the other scroll based? (via a plugin if it supports them) I know hyprland can but it continously crashed for me and firefox scrolled over to the wrong screen

[ivory shadow]

I've been enjoying bazzite on my laptop, but I don't use the laptop for dev work so I haven't needed to install anything that isn't available via flatpak.

[devout vault]

Well I definitely won't be using that. Too reminiscient of rust

[marble jewel]

But they install everything you need to get going. Like I swapped out their choice of app launcher for a different one, and customized the bar.

[safe dragon]

I don't think niri has a traditonal 1 screen wide tiling mode at all

[marble jewel]

They installed wofi as the app launcher. I tried out a bunch of others and landed on fuzzel for now. I still feel like nothing quite compares to PowerToys Command Palette on Windows or Raycast on MacOS.

[hushed raven]

the command pallette on windows is so fantastic, I miss it so much, the closest I have found so far is the KDE version, just less polished imo

[safe dragon]

oh I use fuzzel too

[uncut seal]

same with Japan

[marble jewel]

Yeah, like I have to hotkey different launchers for different functions, but Command Palette/raycast are more all-in-one tools

[uncut seal]

I have Nobara for now because it's stable, but every major update adds a bunch of bloat

[safe dragon]

I tried nobara during the worst time when it was completely switching default desktop environment and just everything broke

I had to manually fix packages constantly

[uncut seal]

I only had a single issue when installing it on another computer last winter where the updater was erroring for some weird reason, and it's been smooth since then

also I don't have to worry about my shit nvidia card not being found by programs

except matlab, but I don't even care anymore

[cinder karma]

Smh

What if I want to pick everyone myself

How is the Nvidia situation

I recall it being really unstable on Ubuntu a decade agp

I'm dreaming of a world where I get to have CUDA sk

[devout vault]

What do you meeeeeeeeeean

[ivory shadow]

Nvidia has through great effort across years of work become really unstable on Windows too

[cinder karma]

And they're leaders of the magnificent seven

Smh

[devout vault]

The who now

[cinder karma]

Tbh I dont need it for rendering (I play zero video games)

[uncut seal]

fair enough

[hushed raven]

You don't know the magnificent seven??? (neither do I, who are they?)

[devout vault]

This sounds like the titles of some heroes or leaders in fiction

[cinder karma]

What are the Magnificent 7 stocks? | Fidelity https://share.google/5GqAwiHY8rfgWhTF8

[devout vault]

(Ex “the four heavenly kings”, etc.)

Ah, stocks

[cinder karma]

These bad boys are why I'm biting my fingernails

[hushed raven]

Ohhh stock options, that makes a lot more sense

[fleet wren]

it's a gold rush, and they're the only shovel sellers in town
(I adamantly refuse to believe they're that valuable)

[devout vault]

(Even if you didn’t believe it, it would be true)

[uncut seal]

*fool's gold rush

[cinder karma]

Anyways

I have no plans to buy new.... I'll be piecing stuff together from other people's cast offs

[devout vault]

(Please tell me I don't have to unscrew it all again)

As I went to unscrew, noticed this was loose. Hooray, no unscrewing required

For the curious: since there were no cat-themed choices from the “supported, officially or community” list, I chose the food-themed choice

[lethal walrus]

list for what?

OSs?

[devout vault]

Yeah, this list

[lethal walrus]

ahh

whats the food themed choice? linux mint?

[ivory shadow]

It's the only one that fits from that picture.

• Fedora: hat
• Ubuntu: ancient African word for "mid as fuck Linux distro"
• Bazzite: beryllium scandium cyclosilicate mineral
• Arch: curved symmetrical structure that often tells you "i'm load bearing btw"
• Nix: nothing
• Mint: aromatic plant, of which several kinds are used as a culinary herb

[devout vault]

I didn't realize ancient africa had ubuntu

Truly, they were ahead of their time

(even it was mid, this was ancient time)

(or was it considered mid even then)

[uncut seal]

I have good news for you in the domain of terminal emulators

[thin estuary]

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamframe

[heavy dagger]

Title result: Steam Frame

[devout vault]

I FORGOR

Wait is it not preorderable yet

[thin estuary]

also https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine

[heavy dagger]

Title result: Steam Machine

[thin estuary]

aaand i guess a new controller https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller

[heavy dagger]

Title result: Steam Controller

[crystal wren]

THEY DID IT?

[ivory shadow]

So yeah, Valve just dropped everything

2026 release

And people like LTT and such have videos showing off the hardware

[crystal wren]

Hall-effect sticks? Damn, going fancy,

[ivory shadow]

I saw TMR, not hall effect

Or is that for the Frame's controllers?

[crystal wren]

Oh, sorry, I did skim a little, saw magnetic, and assumed that.

Definitely looks to be TMR... which is better.

[safe dragon]

ooh a new controller

[ivory shadow]

The controller is easily the part I'm most excited for

[safe dragon]

I adore the touchpads on the steam deck

[ivory shadow]

The Steam Machine, I don't need. I have a laptop and a desktop that both rock.
The Steam Frame will be too expensive.

But the controller? Heck yeah

[crystal wren]

Infrared LEDs make Steam Controller trackable by Steam Frame’s cameras when you’re immersed in VR. Perfect for playing all of your non-VR games on a giant virtual screen.

...it even tracks with the headset. Oh, my.

[devout vault]

@ CA get me one for stardew VR kthx

[ivory shadow]

Also, the Steam Frame has a Snapdragon processor but it runs SteamOS.

[crystal wren]

Yeah, that stood out to me... and I'm heavily intrigued.

[thin estuary]

Snapdragons are ARM, right?

[ivory shadow]

So that implies they've got proton and an x86 to arm translation layer running together

Yeah

[devout vault]

Yeah, there's been people noticing behavior from valve on that front with Proton, so that doesn't surprise me

[safe dragon]

from what I remember arm does already work fairly well on linux including for gaming

[crystal wren]

And the example!

[devout vault]

Looking at the tech specs
"expansion port"

[safe dragon]

it looks a lot like my home server case

[devout vault]

"4x outward facing monochrome cameras for controller and headset tracking"
makes me a little sad - no color passthrough

But I mean, the eyes are only 2160x2160, and if my experience with my quest 3S is any indication, that's not enough for passthrough for like using my phone or something

...wait, so did they specifically make it so that that can be added later? (whether by them or a third party)

Of course that wouldn't fix the eye display issue

[crystal wren]

No mention of if the IPD adjustment is analogue and physical...

[devout vault]

Oh, even more buttons than I was expecting. (I expected the grip to act as one of L/R 1/2 and the other button to be the other number)

[devout vault]

Considering it looked like a dial and there's also an IPD lock switch between the eyes, I'm guessing so. But that's mostly speculation

[safe dragon]

what's an ipd...

[cinder karma]

What is a steam frame

[devout vault]

Inter <something eye related> distance

[cinder karma]

Actually

.... i dont need to know

[safe dragon]

the thing that was just announced

[devout vault]

The distance between your pupils, basically

So many buttons on the steam controller, too....

[safe dragon]

inner... pupillary distance

[cinder karma]

Oh the thing you need for new glasses

[safe dragon]

oh inter

[cinder karma]

I still don't know what a steam frame is but I'll assume it's VR

[safe dragon]

yes

it was just linked

[fleet wren]

woo it's out

[devout vault]

I have on qualm with the steam controller

[safe dragon]

we just learnt what the steam frame is like 3 minutes ago ourselves you have no excuse. I found out what it was from this very conversation

[devout vault]

No GameCube button layout

[safe dragon]

a shocker truly

[cinder karma]

I don't backread

[devout vault]

(Also old laptop ran out battery, guess I should start actuating using the new one)

[fleet wren]

https://tenor.com/view/chuckles-im-in-danger-ralph-wiggum-the-simpsons-gif-14149962

my valve index in the closet:

[ivory shadow]

Watching a video about the Frame and yeah there's a wheel for IPD

And it sounds physical

[crystal wren]

Mine is sitting next to me incredibly sadly because I haven't touched Windows in a long time, and it is not a nice experience on Linux.

This... ought to be much better.

[fleet wren]

same lol, havent been on windows for gods knows how long

but hey maybe this also comes with steamvr fixes for linux

[safe dragon]

presumably a device running linux that is built to interop with a steam deck, also linux

should work ok on linux

[cinder karma]

Lol

[fleet wren]

ah yeah they indeed did away with the knuckles grip for the steam frame controllers

[crystal wren]

Steam Frame's supposedly expected to be cheaper than the Index... which is good.

And yeah, that's probably for the best. I loved the grip and finger tracking, but nothing really used it.

[devout vault]

Holy junimos, I was able to turn off overlay scrollbars? And I can change the scrollbar width????????

I might have to switch my main PC

[ivory shadow]

Modern Linux desktop environments absolutely destroy Windows

[cinder karma]

Of course

This is what modern windows is

[crystal wren]

[safe dragon]

I found it highly amusing on my work pc where I'm banned from using the device for gaming I'd get actual notification ads for xbox game pass

[fleet wren]

I feel like shilling my blinged out hyprland desktop I spent about 3 weeks on again

[safe dragon]

riced up

[cinder karma]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2025-11-11/nintendo-s-software-sales-aren-t-keeping-up-with-hardware-boom?srnd=undefined

[cinder karma]

Selph, is that tiling?

I feel like being hardcore again

[safe dragon]

I have everything in Nord theme cause it's easy and and has a straightforward style guide when I gotta do it myself

[cinder karma]

Which means I shall give xmonad another try

For a computer I literally do nothing on but banking

[ivory shadow]

I don't know if he's correct, but Linux name dropped this package in a video about the Steam Frame. https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX

[cinder karma]

But I need to check out Clash

[fleet wren]

yeah it's tiling, no self respecting ricers use stacking desktops

[cinder karma]

Do i need to remember long lists of hot keys. Please say yes

This is the only way I can pretend I'm cool okay

[fleet wren]

yes to that too

[safe dragon]

yup

that's a staple of all tiling window managers

[lethal walrus]

i wonder if this'd work on switch

hmmm https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX/issues/1577

[cinder karma]

Ricer?

[devout vault]

...why does firefox have an ai chatbox in it now

[safe dragon]

idk man

[devout vault]

(leads to first image)

[safe dragon]

exciting

[devout vault]

(I think I accidentally dismissed the "open app?" popup earlier, and can't get it to show again)

While we're complaining about things. Why is there no option between 100% and 200%

I want, like, 125%

(My other monitors are good at 100%)

[hushed raven]

That annoys me to no end, I get why but like idc give me weird zoom levels!

[devout vault]

I mean windows has 150% and 125%

I can read the text fine, but it takes a little focus

[safe dragon]

fractional scaling is fairly standard in the wayland world nowadays but linux mint is still x11

[hushed raven]

I want a scaling like my refresh rate, 59.9555

[devout vault]

I still wonder why that's an option

[hushed raven]

Good to know, I think I'm currently using x11 mainly BC I can't be bothered sorting stuff out for wayland

[devout vault]

Side monitors have and 60 and 59.94, built in monitor has 60 and 165

[safe dragon]

on my laptop I think I have it set to 150%

with niri of course

[devout vault]

now you tell me

[safe dragon]

I didn't really think about that

[hushed raven]

It's baffling to me why weird refresh rates are a thing, isn't like ~60 good enough? Who needs precision to 2 significant figures?

[safe dragon]

in wayland the windows that are still x11/xwayland tend to be a little funky still either way

at least for electron apps you can set some environment variables for it to use wayland

cause it has supported it for fuckin ages discord just doesn't use it

[hushed raven]

I have seen a lot of mention of electron apps and Wayland (not that I know what electron is exactly but I have a rough idea)

[cinder karma]

Electron

https://tenor.com/view/abstract-atom-diagram-spin-gif-9581845

[hushed raven]

I think vesktop has a setting to enable it? I can't remember off the top of my head and I'm not at my computer rn

[crystal wren]

I'm pretty negative on Electron.

I'll let myself out.

[fleet wren]

59.95 is an artifact from the NTSC days; wikipedia has an explanation

[hushed raven]

Oo that I didn't know, I shall find that wiki page, thank you

[cinder karma]

I lost an electron

(Are you sure?) Yes. I'm positive!

[hushed raven]

That was pretty sub (orbital) par

[safe dragon]

(chromium browser with a lil wrapper around it for interacting with native system apis essentially)

[fleet wren]

smh no one made a fork named positron

[hushed raven]

Ooo noted, I shall have to look into that further and see if there's any alternatives that aren't chromium BC stuff that I like my RAM and I want it all

[devout vault]

I'm watching the youtube steam hardware announcement

And I gotta say, I think the top comment is definitely deserving of its spot.

[cinder karma]

So stardew comes to VR when

[devout vault]

If the steam machine has a startup sequence like the steam deck does, I will be very tempted to use this instead of the one I use for my steam deck

[ivory shadow]

It's SteamOS so it should

[devout vault]

Shipping early 2026? Sooner than I was expecting

I was a little hesitant about the steam controller's proportions

Mainly how high up most things were with where the trackpads are

[fleet wren]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_burner
(also TIL as someone whose first exposure to the term "ricing" was via Linux desktop the term apparently has racist origins? but as a Vietnamese am I allowed to use it)

[devout vault]

But seeing it in various people's hands makes me worry much less

[lethal walrus]

just odnt accidentally set it as shreck

[fleet wren]

The Steam Deck looked pretty bulky at first glance as well but it's pretty comfortable in my hands

[hushed raven]

I had no idea either, I first heard it related to cars

[devout vault]

They know their audience, huh

[devout vault]

Mine isn't as comfortable as I'd like because my stomach gets in the way of holding it most comfortably, really need to lose weight

[cinder karma]

The steam deck looks so bulky ngl

Anyways, with my next 6in phone (I kid I kid)

[hushed raven]

The steamdeck is bulky, but it's not bulky like a Ford F150, it's quite comfy to use

Source: I am lay in bed playing on it

[devout vault]

Godot spotted ( @crystal wren )

[crystal wren]

And not using the experimental new theme. For shame. /j

[safe dragon]

next valve game uses godot confirmed?

they ditch the source engine

godot all the way

when they forcefully remove counter strike 2 from the store for counter strike 3 it'll be godot

[lethal walrus]

source nextversion will be a superset of godot

[hushed raven]

They can rip the source engine from my cold dead hands, no one is taking my janky physics from me

[lethal walrus]

is this hanky as in hank or janky

oh janky

[devout vault]

I also see a lot of the youtube comments talking about how valve is no longer afraid of the number 3 (since they specifically said "three" when mentioning three new devices)

[lethal walrus]

i thought gordon from hl was hank for some reason and you were talking specifically of "hank"

[safe dragon]

portal 3, tf3 and half life 3 all coming next year

[hushed raven]

Isn't one of the scientists called Hank? I think?

[safe dragon]

hank green?

my favorite half life character

[hushed raven]

Portal 3 better have 3 player coop

Atlas, p-body, and Clive, Clive is the uncle robot no longer invited to the family gathering

[lethal walrus]

portal 3 is one of the rare games im very optimistic and excited for

[devout vault]

Apparently linus tech tips has a video where he got to try a steam frame

Guess that'll be my first watched video of his

[crystal wren]

I am a little worried about the head strap not having an upper part, but... it looks like it sits perfectly despite it?

[hushed raven]

Where are you watching this? I'm struggling to find any video

[devout vault]

Valve's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmKrKTwtukE

LTT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU3ru09HTng

[hushed raven]

Oh perfect thank you!

[devout vault]

Also I just did the math on the headset weight. Apparently it's a bit over 25% lighter than a quest 3 (440 grams, vs 615).

And the quest has all that weight on the front, while the steam frame seems to have it more focused on the back I think? ("core module" = 185g, "core module + headstrap" = 440g, and the headstrap is what has the battery and speakers and such, battery at least is on the back)

[crystal wren]

Oh, hell yeah. Optional accessories, but they're apparently going to sell an accessories kit with a top strap for the headset, and a strap for the controllers to stay on your hand like the Index controllers.

[devout vault]

I haven't gotten that far in the video yet

I hope the place I get my prescription VR lenses from gets a devkit and has some ready by the time it comes out

[cinder karma]

So stardew VR wheb

[ivory shadow]

wheb indeed

Linus said in his video that they're going to make prescription lenses available

This topic reminds me that I should just get some contact lenses the next time I get into VR

[cinder karma]

Tbh prescriptions might just be cheaper

[devout vault]

whenever I manage to get it done enough to be playable (as a mod, of course)

[cinder karma]

I dont have contacts despite being quite active.

[hushed raven]

This is fantastic, I have the quest 2 with the battery head strap, it makes it so much more usable for longer sessions because of the better distributed weight

[fleet wren]

I got prescription lenses for VR before
and then I just went and got LASIK

[pliant snow]

Depending on the price of the PC, I could see myself getting one

[cinder karma]

I have goggles that are fitted for nearsighted people

[devout vault]

Why, for the spacer interface thing for the headset, the first reason for it he mentioned for it was for people with longer eyelashes

Why

Are really long eyelashes more common than glasses, and that's why it was mentioned first

[hushed raven]

I have very long lashes, I need space inside the headset, at least with glasses you can take them off and be a bit blinder, but you can't just take your eyelashes off

Well you can, but you can't put them back on

[devout vault]

Okay, I didn't realize it was an actual issue some people had

[crystal wren]

I've definitely had my eyelashes brush against lenses!

[hushed raven]

We were graced by the long lash gods XD

[pliant snow]

Is there a vision limit for VR? If you have terrible eyesight are you out of luck, or can it compensate for it

[devout vault]

I'm not sure. Usually glasses work fine I think, with a slightly lower FOV compared to prescription lenses.

Not sure if prescription lenses have a limit on how far they can go

Probably depends on the lens type

[hushed raven]

VR is a weird one in that it's not as blurry as usual, without your glasses, but with most headsets you can wear glasses inside them and it looks normal

The only issue I have had with glasses is not being able to wear the headset for as long because the arms of the glasses press against my head

[crystal wren]

I had to return the Quest 3 because it was just too narrow and tried to burrow into my temples.

[cinder karma]

If i put on mascara it shows up on my glasses

[fleet wren]

the index is big enough for glasses. not as comfortable as full on lenses but it's an option

[devout vault]

Anyways, back to fighting jetbrains toolbox I guess

[ivory shadow]

Also I don't know if people have watched enough videos yet but confirming again that the IPD on the Frame is physical and not a software thing. You turn the knob and the lenses physically move.

[crystal wren]

I did also see that it does maybe still have the finger tracking from the Index controllers.

And an optional strap to strap it to your hand like the Index controllers, which I'm very excited about.

[hushed raven]

I'm hoping it will get full hand tracking at some point, I've been waiting for so long for something to do that, the closest I've seen is the quest, but that's only in the home bit and not in games

[crystal wren]

It's also very bad based on the week or two I had with it!

[devout vault]

I think the jetbrains toolbox isn't actually... installing?

None of these have been true

(nor the "starting on startup" option)

[marble jewel]

What flavor of Linux did you end up going with?

[devout vault]

Mint (Cinnamon)

[marble jewel]

Yum

[devout vault]

Setting aside the key combinations for a second

The print screen kinda sucks compared to sharex

I press shift+printscreen, but it doesn't actually capture the screen until I select a region

Which is a bit annoying when trying to get something that fades when changing windows

[cinder karma]

Casey while you're here, I hear mod ID 40k is showing up soon

Clearly it should go to you

[devout vault]

Anyways, it seems firefox ignores the theme setting and is still using absurdly-thin overlay scrollbar 😔

[marble jewel]

You can install your own screenshotting tool, configure it for that behavior, and then bind it to the same hotkey

[proud dawn]

wassup programmers

[devout vault]

I figured, but it's still an odd choice

[proud dawn]

@devout vault i love your pfp

sorry to ping

[devout vault]

Thanks

[fleet wren]

in a just world everyone would be using GTK/Qt

[devout vault]

wuh?

[fleet wren]

alas they have to go with stuff like "Web Components" or "Electr*n"

ah yeah I believe default Ubuntu only rolls vi by default

[crystal wren]

The fix: sudo apt install nano /j

[marble jewel]

The 'm' costs extra

[lethal walrus]

and neo is 20% off for the month of november

[marble jewel]

sudo apt install nano hx

[devout vault]

why

wont

toolbox

install

(I literally can't seem to log in with how it's currently launching)

[marble jewel]

I just installed toolbox a few days ago, but didn't run into any such issues

[devout vault]

Ah, but you probably know what you're doing

[marble jewel]

But a whole different Linux and a whole different window manager

[devout vault]

Big difference

[crystal wren]

What's it actually... doing?

[fleet wren]

one thing Arch has over Ubuntu I guess (it has Toolbox in the repo)

[devout vault]

Get stuck in this cycle

[crystal wren]

I've never seen that login process before...

[devout vault]

Also this isn't happening

And presumably the protocol isn't being registered (ie. why the "open desktop app" in firefox isn't showing up)

[cinder karma]

Adding to main menu is easy you can do that in post but it looks like thr installer isnt getting that far...

[cinder karma]

Now you see why I have a dpkg file in my setup.sh

[devout vault]

Yeah, that's the thing, I don't think any install stuff is running

It's acting like a portable installation or something

[cinder karma]

Hmmm

[marble jewel]

That's been my experience in general. Arch is heavily "Community supported" but the community is better at supporting Arch than non-community supported projects

[cinder karma]

How are you install it

[marble jewel]

Like Arch wiki is super informative

Meanwhile, Ubuntu will hold your hand right off a cliff /s

[cinder karma]

Trust me

[fleet wren]

I'm this close to switching to Arch
maybe next time I have to recompile all 12 Hyprland dependencies from scratch

[cinder karma]

Is a rite of passage to accidentally uninstall python

[devout vault]

I've never done it

[crystal wren]

All I know is I've broken Ubuntu far more times than I have Arch... and I've used Arch a lot more.

[devout vault]

Y'all are twmpting me to switch when I'm only like 30 minutes into this

[marble jewel]

It's not too late 🙂

[cinder karma]

Dont worry

[marble jewel]

It's never too late

[crystal wren]

(Also what Atra said here, though!)

[cinder karma]

It takes me on average 12 hrs to set up a new compute

[devout vault]

Oh I missed that

[marble jewel]

It's a rite of passage to redo your entire linux setup at least once a year

[devout vault]

The directions say just to run jetbrains-toolbox. Suprise, that's not enough it seems

[cinder karma]

Please matt

I did that when I was young

Now that I'm ancient

[marble jewel]

I cheat at it by scripting the setup process

[ivory shadow]

What about deliberately uninstalling Python

[marble jewel]

I've probably setup a fresh Linux environment at least 10 times this year

[crystal wren]

CI doesn't count. /j

[cinder karma]

On Ubuntu if you uninstall python you fuck everything

[hushed raven]

It's better to switch 30 mins in then 4 days in after you've got things working! Join the dark side!

[hushed raven]

That explains the issues I've had in the past.... Whoops

[marble jewel]

Better yet, use a Live USB and play around with a few options before installing to your main drive

Get a feel for things so you know what you're choosing

[devout vault]

Okay, I don't know what happened, but something changed when I ran it from a directory above as ./bin/jetbrains-toolbox rather than in the same directory

But it installed to that directory, not where it says it should

[safe dragon]

arch just has better package management in general...

[marble jewel]

That's the thing - "Community supported" reads like "You're on your own" but in reality it's more like the community has already figured out most things for you

[devout vault]

I found the wayland mode for linux mint, but I see why it's marked experimental

A lot of flickering lines when moving the mouse around

And it doesn't seem to like me having three monitors

So might as well try arch I guess 😛

(solely for the memes, of course)

[crystal wren]

https://tenor.com/bDPOY.gif

[marble jewel]

I had a horrible type trying to switch from an existing KDE/Plasma desktop to Wayland. It was easier for me to just setup from scratch, but don't know if that's a common experience.

Doing niri from the start worked a lot better then trying to switch to it

[crystal wren]

KDE hides/disables the X11 session by default on Arch nowadays anyway. I had to go specifically enable it to test some things.

[devout vault]

The nonsense that is happening

(Not just the lines - selecting after right click isn’t working usually)

[safe dragon]

wtf

[cinder karma]

Tell me how arch goes, Casey

[safe dragon]

I wonder if the linux mint kernel is older than the cpu

[devout vault]

Didn’t think the arch problems would begin before I could even start the install

[safe dragon]

oh turn off safe boot I think

[devout vault]

Huh, really? That’s odd

[crystal wren]

Okay, .NET 10 is out, so I can replace my mod build Python scripts with a dotnet run <script>.cs. /hj

[devout vault]

Well, not that odd if I think about it

[cinder karma]

Eww

Smth about running the whole ass dotnet compiler repeatedly annoys me

Then again I use linqpad so

[crystal wren]

Well it's that, or I stick with the current Python, and we know how I feel...

[cinder karma]

🐍

Tbh python is growing on me again

[ivory shadow]

There's always JavaScript

[lethal walrus]

bun run build.ts

[cinder karma]

There is batch too

I've been writing a lot of shell lately

[lethal walrus]

I should alias bun run to brun

Remind me in 17 hours to alias bun run to brun

[heavy dagger]

[blinks] what now? yeah uhhh sure thing boss (#6950859) (17h | <t:1763044140>)

[lethal walrus]

Yeah fair comment uber

[cinder karma]

You should alias sudo to yolo

[lethal walrus]

I should

[crystal wren]

[lethal walrus]

User remind me to YOLO sudo too thanks in 17 hours

[heavy dagger]

sorry to clarify how accurate do you need that reminder to be? (#6950862) (17h | <t:1763044178>)

[lethal walrus]

Autocorrect his name is uber

[crystal wren]

Speaking of sudo... how do you all pronounce it?

[lethal walrus]

Sue dough

[ivory shadow]

I flop between sue dough and sue due

[cinder karma]

Pseudo

[safe dragon]

like pseudo yeah

I understand it's "superuser do"

but I refuse

[fleet wren]

sue due for me

[safe dragon]

sudos the new spelling of seduce

[devout vault]

This for me

[devout vault]

The advantage of the latter is you can say you did some “sudo voodoo”

I don’t know what all these options are aaaaaaaaa

I assume crumble votes niri and atlas votes hyprland

[dusty pollen]

I love i3 but idk if you would too

[devout vault]

But I have no basis for deciding on my own

[lethal walrus]

I think I use wayland technically

[ivory shadow]

I am always a KDE fan