programmers-off-topic

[steel kraken]

it still bothers me that none of the stardew clones have worked out the magic of stardew is multiplayer

sun haven did, but I think its the only one

[safe dragon]

the only sdv multiplayer I've played was that one multiplayer mod back then

for like 5 minutes

[devout vault]

That old multiplayer mod, which there is definitely nobody here who is incredibly knowledgeable of how it worked

[supple ether]

Yet another reason I'm hyped for sunkissed city

[devout vault]

That's because having someone else play with you brings in too much of the outside world to deal with in my escapism game (/s)

[safe dragon]

tbh idk how people have friends that consistently have time to play at the same times as you

witchcraft

[devout vault]

I mean, I've basically only ever accomplished it by being siblings living in the same house

[safe dragon]

I do have a sibling that plays games but she also has a child so that's basically an instant end to that possibility

[devout vault]

Ah, but you see, part of "living in the same house" meant "all still growing up, and so none of us have much we're doing anyways"

[safe dragon]

the good old days

[red crest]

ngl its why im not as hype for haunted chocolatier tbh

[cinder karma]

How do you guys find peopl3 to play games with

[red crest]

i have a wife atra

[safe dragon]

I don't

I haven't played a game with someone in years

[devout vault]

I mean, if CA doesn't add MP to HC, there's at least one person who is gonna play and mod it who happens to have experience making multiplayer mods for games using an XNA-like...

[steel kraken]

I will probably buy hc, mainly just to decompile and analyse it, but have no real intent to play it without multiplayer

[safe dragon]

as long as it's unofficial he doesn't have to add it to mobile or console 🙏

[red crest]

i will buy it to mod it on the ground floor but dunno how much playing

[safe dragon]

I'm kind of surprised multiplayer is a big deal to people

[steel kraken]

it just makes me sad that multiplayer would be considerably less jank if it was in the foundations and not an afterthought

[red crest]

its like the only deal for me with these kinds of games

[devout vault]

And here we have the two types of gamers:

• the gamers who game to get away from people
• the gamers who game to connect with people

[red crest]

i didnt play stardew til the mp mod either

[cinder karma]

(I'm planning on buying the HC soundtrack from bandcamp)

[safe dragon]

hey I hosted a Minecraft server

[red crest]

still got it and my save somewhere on my other drive

[devout vault]

I mean, to be fair, even if you put it in the foundations, it takes a lot more work to design for multiplayer. And if you don't have experience implementing multiplayer, that also lengthens it a ton.

(For those who don't recall, the 1.3 or whatever netcode impl was done by a contractor)

[red crest]

cant get experience if ya never do it

[devout vault]

Yeah I was just speaking to the jank part

[safe dragon]

that's why I'll never do it 🙏

[devout vault]

But even experience doesn't help with the fact that designing a game for singleplayer can be very different from designting a game that can have multiplayer (from a gameplay standpoint)

Not impossible by any means

But if you have a specific vision, it could be a hindrance

[steel kraken]

tbh the only janky stuff I would like fixed is stuff like item duping(and deleting) from race conditions in putting items in tables, or concurrent access in chests etc

[red crest]

i think more people should have multiplayer friendly visions

[steel kraken]

stuff like time, or one person being in an event without others etc is fine

[devout vault]

While that would be nice to some extent, I also don't think people should have to make their visions fit a multiplayer mold

[safe dragon]

I don't actually know how multiplayer works in sdv. Do you have separate houses? Do the maps actually have multiple house spawn locations... How does that work with the lore and cutscenes

[steel kraken]

most singleplayer games with multiplayer co-op usually have some 4th wall breakage to work

[red crest]

i never said they should!

[steel kraken]

like halo1 has two master chiefs when playing co-op

[steel kraken]

farmhands have the cabin building

and for farm cutscenes they just use the primary farmhouse instead of their cabin exterior

[devout vault]

Separate houses, yeah. And not just interior like the multiplayer mod - each person has their own actual building.

For lore, some stuff has to be decided by the host I think? Or is otherwise shared.

For events, excluding festivals, they're generally completely independent. Though there are a few "broadcast events" that basically force trigger for everyone once one person triggers it

[safe dragon]

o

fair enough I suppose

[red crest]

as an aside Sun Haven is pretty alright

[steel kraken]

lore wise from the hosts perspective they are mainly just hired muscle, from farmhands perspective they just skip intro'd and are the canonical farmer

[red crest]

i should revisit it

[steel kraken]

I dont think there are any cutscenes or events that actually tell the difference between host and farmhand other than host only cutscenes that are almost all broadcast anyway

[steel kraken]

wait so in my code crimes I made multiplayer closer to your mod again? as I deleted the cabin exteriors

[devout vault]

Sounds like it, yeah

Except for my mod, the farmhouse interior was actually entirely kept by the farmhand

The host basically didn't know it existed, except during save (at which point the farmhand sent it to the host so it could be saved)

[steel kraken]

I have an elevator panel button next to the farmhouse door that lets you pick which interior to go into

[devout vault]

I might be totally misremembering for the host saving it to be honest

It could've literally been connecting your local file to the host's, kinda

[safe dragon]

sun haven always gave me Korean mmo vibes and then they had the whole debacle about not crediting people and a completely disastrous switch launch

[devout vault]

I remember something was synced during that time though

[steel kraken]

yeah sun haven very much has maplestory chibi artstyle

[devout vault]

This led to some fun bugs, like pet duplication

[cinder karma]

What's sun haven

[red crest]

i last played or even paid any attention to sun haven in 2022 before it was even released so anything controversial past that point im completely clueless about

[steel kraken]

magic stardew valley in a chibi artstyle

[devout vault]

A stardew-like that has a bunch more fantasy elements

I was kinda baffled by the amount of (cosmetic) DLC that sunhaven has

[safe dragon]

I find the whole game very off-putting

[cinder karma]

People lik3 making money

[devout vault]

I vaguely felt similar but I also never got very far into it

[cinder karma]

(I have nothing against people making money)

[devout vault]

Like, a few days, I think?

Not enough to really make an actual decision on

[steel kraken]

I have a completion in it, cant remember if it was 100% or not (at the time of playing)

my last achievement was unlock every skill point in fishing

[cinder karma]

Tbh just being home and awake for any real amount of time is not something that happens for me like 4-5 days of thr week now

I've been meaning to go to the climbing gym for a month lol

[cinder karma]

Dotnet 10 o O

https://youtu.be/tT_i1qAkTFA?si=Fsf1MtsLof9ljzbH

[devout vault]

is there a non video link

[hushed raven]

Not sure if this will have the same info as the video, but it may be of use atleast, more so than the whole doc

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/compatibility/10.0

[devout vault]

Found something else elsewhere. Apparently .net 9 got a new file format for sln files? (.slnx is the new file extension)

[devout vault]

I saw that but didn't see a language section

[hushed raven]

ye that checks, that's what my C# GUI testing project used, I was very confused given I've only see .sln with .net <whatever stardew uses>

[devout vault]

6

Only really interesting thing I can find is being able to use the autogenerated backing field for properties with a custom getter/setter

I suppose also the Span/ReadOnlySpan implicit conversions

Oh wait are extension properties part of C# 14 as well?

Okay that is interesting

[hushed raven]

Uri length limits removed

How fun, gunna make a 65001 length Uri

[devout vault]

I just wish we could use stuff like extension members in .net 6 land

It's supposed to be mostly syntax sugar right? So why not?

It can't even be polyfilled as far as I know

[thin estuary]

And pretty sure you will be able to use extension properties in .NET 6 land, yes

[devout vault]

PLEASE

GIVE IT TO ME

[devout vault]

Oh? I thought .net 6 wouldn't let langversion go that high. Good to know.

...but that probably means I have to update to vs2026, doesn't it

[thin estuary]

you do need to install the .NET 10 SDK to use LangVersion 14, yes

but your project can still use TargetFramework=net6.0

[devout vault]

👀

[thin estuary]

i'm also excited

been waiting years for that

null-conditional assignment is also great

now give me partial generic type inference

[devout vault]

And give me constant values as generic parameters

(much less likely to happen, I know)

[hushed raven]

I thought searching through the .net docs would help me understand extension properities, but this tired it seems impossible, give me like 12 hours and I shall share your excitement XD
-# (this isn't an invite to explain them too me, you will be effectively talking to a brick wall rn, I can promise that)

[thin estuary]

i'd love them to do something about the generic hell you can easily get into, if suddenly you need to use generic types constrained to other generic types, etc etc

this is the worst thing i ever wrote

[devout vault]

For that specific example, do you mean like how you have to add constraints to your generics to use them as generic parameters for further generics?

what the heck

[hushed raven]

that does not spark joy...

[thin estuary]

it was for my generic UI framework

[devout vault]

That sounds like your old UI attempt

Ah, I was right

[thin estuary]

i didn't want to tie it to MonoGame, or anything else

[devout vault]

Ah

[thin estuary]

not any specific vector types

it's just impossible to make that work in C#

[devout vault]

Yeah

[thin estuary]

Swift my beloved

[devout vault]

Clearly we need to be able to pass in a namespace as a generic parameter

[hushed raven]

Seems like a resounding sucess /jk

[devout vault]

Then we could do public TNamespace.VectorAdapter myVec; or something

[devout vault]

(And to be more specific, into the namespace itself, so that everything in said namesapce uses it)

[thin estuary]

in Swift, if you have a generic constraint, which itself has more generic types, you can just use these inner types

i'm lacking the correct terminology here

[devout vault]

You mean like if TSomeParameter has inner types, you can do TSomeParameter.InnerType ?

[thin estuary]

yeah

[devout vault]

Yeah that would also be nice

Another way C++ templates can be better in some ways 😔

[thin estuary]

in Swift i can just do something like this:

interface IVector2<TComponent> { TComponent X { get; } TComponent Y { get; } };
public class View<TVector> where TVector : IVector2
{
  public TVector.TComponent AddToX(TVector v, TVector.TComponent toAdd)
    => v.X + toAdd;
}

[devout vault]

I think with C++ you'd need an inner typedef, but yeah

[thin estuary]

i guess TComponent should also be an INumber<TComponent> here, but you get it

oh! and no need for this curiously recurring generic bullshit in Swift

you just get Self

[devout vault]

Pretty sure I used the C++ equivalent at some point

There are also is one specific way you use Java generics which I like, though it's largely syntax sugar.

There's some way you can do something like

// base class
void Func( SomeClass instance );

// subclass
override void Func( AnotherClassInheritingFromSomeClass instance);

Don't remember the actual syntax though

It was something involving something like ? extending SomeClass or something

[thin estuary]

yeah, that's the same pattern

C# interface IWhatever<T> where T : IWhatever<T>
Java interface Whatever<T extends Whatever<T>>

i hope i got the Java one right

i haven't touched Java in 10+ years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiously_recurring_template_pattern

[devout vault]

Well the specific case I'm thinking of is the override

Like I remember in MC modding, I'm pretty sure I saw stuff like the base class having SomeClass, but subclasses having the override use a specific subclass of SomeClass

[thin estuary]

use, or return?

[devout vault]

Maybe there was an adapter method too? I think I recall seeing one but I assumed it was a decompile artifact, since decompilers were much worse then

[devout vault]

Use as their parameter

[pliant snow]

https://ratatui.rs/showcase/apps/

I did not realize all these programs use the same library, I use several of these

[hushed raven]

Oh wow, these are great, terminal based too which is fantastic for me

Certainly going to be checking out the library further

[fleet wren]

interesting

back in my days we use curses

[lethal walrus]

Personally I think about using ink and then not

-# it's react

[hushed raven]

-# no crab comment? not what I was expecting

[devout vault]

<flashbacks to trying to write something similar myself, since curses didn't work on windows>

[fleet wren]

#- dont wanna scare away casey

[devout vault]

(Rust was only directly mentioned in the tiny text embed, so I didn't notice)

But now that you mention it... sprays crab repellant everywhere

[lethal walrus]

Was using .rs not a big tell

[devout vault]

expecting me to actually read

[cinder karma]

Yeah

C# doesn't support .... fuck

There is a word for this

Contra/covariance at the parameters or return

For override

Anyways

[hushed raven]

Pretty sure all computer languages don't support "fuck", it's a pretty lifeful thing

[cinder karma]

My 🦀 doesnt have overrides and verilog overrides are

Hey now

[hushed raven]

you're a rockstar

[cinder karma]

I'm not a Rockstar lol

I'm just dumb old atra

[lethal walrus]

#define fuck return 0;
Or something I'm bad at c

[hushed raven]

At least 1 descriptor here is false, your nebulous age makes it hard to confirm exactly how many exactly however

[devout vault]

Giving me "using die() instead of exit() in PHP" vibes

(For the unaware, yes, die() is equivalent to exit() in PHP)

[hushed raven]

that's such a gen Z/millennial coded thing in a language older than both combined

[lethal walrus]

If you spawn a child process can you violently get rid of it

It feels like they'd do that given the abovee

[hushed raven]

having to search "how to kill child without killing parent" always feels wrong and most likely has gotten me on some kinda list

[safe dragon]

oh yeah ratatui is very popular

[pliant snow]

I guess I assumed they were all uses some curses thing or a group of libraries, I didn't realize that like four utilities I use daily were all using it lol

[safe dragon]

the list of programmers

[devout vault]

...it went out of stock while I got my ducks in a row??? 😔

The higher end model is still in stock

Guess that answers that question

[safe dragon]

lmao

gratz on the upgrade!

[devout vault]

(Not the AI 300 series)

[safe dragon]

damn

that's what I have

[devout vault]

(The ryzen 9 7940hs instead of ryzen 7 7840hs)

The AI series is still in preorder mode

Oh the graphics module is back in stock

$300 though, which the amount the upgraded base part had an increase of

[devout vault]

Meh, given it's a framework, I can always get the graphics module later

[marble jewel]

Will this be the device you start playing with Linux on?

[devout vault]

Yes

[marble jewel]

I've recently made a big commitment to Linux. I'm currently using it as my "main" desktop environment

Windows is still running on my higher end hardware, so it'll be what I use for gaming, but CachyOS+Niri is my day-to-day OS now

[devout vault]

Oh don't worry nintendo, I am quite aware

[safe dragon]

🙏

I support this trend of people using niri

[ivory shadow]

One of us
One of us
One of us

[marble jewel]

On Windows I was using a scrolling WM, so it was an easy adustment

[safe dragon]

already dedicated to the scroll

[marble jewel]

Pretty much have the same layout and hotkeys for both

[safe dragon]

do you have the overview in windows?

I use the niri overview a fair bit

[devout vault]

When do I get my invite to the cool kids server

[ivory shadow]

You're already in the cool kids server

[marble jewel]

I mean Winkey+tab is similar enough

[ivory shadow]

Once my current Win10 installation craps out, however long that takes, is when I'll switch my desktop to Linux. Modern Linux has been a joy on my laptop.

[devout vault]

Are you talking about the cubegame nerd server?

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, that one

lol

[devout vault]

That's not the cool kids server that's the cubegame nerd server

[ancient cedar]

Hello

[devout vault]

It's too mainstream to be the cool kids server

[ivory shadow]

Yes, the cool kids 😎

[safe dragon]

hi prometheus

[ancient cedar]

I just watch

[marble jewel]

One thing different about niri is there's no concept of minimized windows as far as I'm aware, so is the equivalent just moving windows to a different workspace?

[cinder karma]

Casey, you're infinitely cool

You make any server you're in cool by default

[cinder karma]

We use Linux at work

[safe dragon]

yeah tiling window managers never really have a minimizing concept

you put them in a different workspace or just like... scrolled to the side in niri's case

[devout vault]

These sort of comparisons are always funny to me. Like, either way, it's being displayed on my current monitor...

[marble jewel]

I pretty much have my active workspace and my inactive workspace

[ivory shadow]

I have never managed to get into a tiling WM.

[cinder karma]

Neither have i

[marble jewel]

Maybe I'm not utilitizing the power of workspaces effectively yet

[cinder karma]

But i do use screen

I use workspaces heavily at woek though

[safe dragon]

I'm using 6 workspaces rn, 3 on each monitor

[marble jewel]

I'm not a fan of tiling, but for my ultrawide monitor, scrolling is amazing

[ancient cedar]

Just wanna say, Zeus wants to play with you guys😂

[cinder karma]

I have five full workspaces at woek and I use all of them

[ivory shadow]

While true, that is also infinitely less funny than

[cinder karma]

I apparently have a 4k monitor at work too and subdivided my right hand monitor

[devout vault]

The gods are too afraid of all of my code crimes to dare messing with me

[cinder karma]

I haven't played a video game since 2023

[marble jewel]

I "technically" have 9 workspaces configured, but I'm really only using 2 of them

[cinder karma]

I dont think I'll play one before 2030

[devout vault]

Ah yes, refresh rate, something well known to correspond directly to how blurry something is

[safe dragon]

my workspaces are usually for separating doing different things while I put them within the same workspace if they serve a similar function like discord and signal

[cinder karma]

I hope things in Microsoft Java are going well

[ivory shadow]

Nothing says high refresh rate like a static image

[safe dragon]

refresh rate does actually strongly affect how blurry quickly moving scenes are

[devout vault]

I mean if I get stardew3d to a release ready state, I'm going to be dragging you into a MP session with me a little bit. (even if your computer doesn't handle it, I want to show 2d players playing with 3d players)

[devout vault]

I don't think it works like that for a screenshot of it though?

Also, no bringing facts and logic into this

[cinder karma]

I turn my own laptop on for long enough to do my monthly finance spreadsheet

And that's. It

[safe dragon]

I recommend buying a 500 Hz monitor to keep moving images sharp and then turning on motion blur anyway for cinematic effect

[cinder karma]

I dont make enough money for that

[ivory shadow]

500 Hz monitors are ridiculous anyways

[safe dragon]

I don't think those monitors are actually that expensive

[cinder karma]

I'm not bill gates

[marble jewel]

Buy a 500 Hz monitor, and then use AI to fill in the extra frames on a 24 fps video

[ivory shadow]

Competitive gamers be like "Yes give me a low resolution display with bad colors that updates at least twice as fast as my eye can perceive"

[cinder karma]

You joke but

[safe dragon]

ur eyes don't perceive in frames smh

[cinder karma]

People are actively doing this

[devout vault]

...I mean VR software literally has upscaling stuff designed for this sort of thing (though not that extreme of a difference)... also not sure if it's actually AI though

[cinder karma]

Granted, you guys know full well I can count the movies I've watched on one habd

[safe dragon]

if you set it up right to make the difference more obvious I believe people can tell up to nearly like 1000 Hz but in more realistic scenario's that's just not relevant

[devout vault]

(I mean, normal games use it too nowadays I think)

[safe dragon]

it's like basing your purchase entirely on that ufo test

[devout vault]

(But it's more useful for VR where you need to render 2 larger-than-normal screens at least 72 times a second each, but preferably more)

[marble jewel]

Relevant Linus Tech Tips https://youtu.be/lCKbt8hBYAo?si=v3hHi3ajiftA5iXA

Just upscale via AI and fill in frames via AI, what can go wrong?

[ivory shadow]

Latency

[safe dragon]

base your entire monitor purchasing decision on staring at these ufos https://www.testufo.com/framerates#count=3&pps=720

[marble jewel]

Gonna play my 30 FPS game at VGA resolution in 4K120

[cinder karma]

Vim is gorgeous in 4k

Four different vim windows at that

[dusty pollen]

tbh I think my monitor is top of the line so I’m good

19”, VGA, old enough to use discord

[marble jewel]

I was gonna say, do you have to physically move your head to read a line of text

[fleet wren]

me playing ultra HD 500x upscaled SDV at 1200Hz and suddenly seeing text between the AI-generated pixels (it's my exact date of death)

[devout vault]

I had no idea only high FPS could turn minecraft from 240p classic edition to 16K MC-in-2077-with-shaders edition

(purely from the thumbnail)

[cinder karma]

I do have a 4k monitor

[safe dragon]

why 4 vim windows and not 1 vim window split into 4

[cinder karma]

I don't know why I have a 4k monitor

[ivory shadow]

The only thing I've seen at this point that makes me even slightly want more than my 144Hz monitor is still https://blurbusters.com/crt-simulation-in-a-gpu-shader-looks-better-than-bfi/

[dusty pollen]

1366x768 which is the best resolution

[devout vault]

more like top of the grim reaper's priority list

[dusty pollen]

nah I’m pretty sure this thing would survive a nuke

[devout vault]

Is your monitor a nokia

[dusty pollen]

dell, apparently

[devout vault]

Relevant meme

[marble jewel]

I like my 5120x1440

[dusty pollen]

damn, you could fit seven of my monitor in there

[devout vault]

Before I moved back to FL I had three 4k monitors

It was nice

It was like having 6 normal sized ones

[devout vault]

wait is this one monitor

(almost wrote minotaur)

[marble jewel]

Yes.

[safe dragon]

ok I understand why you supposedly use 1 workspace

your workspace is gigantic

can't believe you scroll on top of that

[marble jewel]

It's like having 2x16:9 monitors side-by-side, but with no bezel

[safe dragon]

and it sucks for fullscreen windows

[cinder karma]

Man

But i can look at an entire chip right

[devout vault]

remind me in 2 hours to set up an absolutely ridiculous setup in Virtual Desktop using virtual monitors, and then boast about my setup

[heavy dagger]

all right kittycatcasey but next time you better bring me 20 nirnroot or i ain't doin it (#6942131) (2h | <t:1762462488>)

[devout vault]

dang I'm gonna have to play skyrim if I ever want to use uberbot reminders again

Guess I better get a new modlist downloading

[fleet wren]

all that horizontal real estate and your bar's still on top

[devout vault]

I can kinda see it being better that way actually

If the bar is on the side, you have to go pretty far if you're doing stuff on the side opposite the bar

(unless you're dualwielding bars, of course)

[safe dragon]

I'd probably duplicate things on the waybar to show up twice each

[marble jewel]

I don't reach for the mouse too often, and since all windows occupy ~33% of the screen, horizontal is where I need space the most

[devout vault]

My biggest complaint with 4k monitors (I almost typed minotaurs again) is that I like to use it as two windows, but some websites... don't like that

[marble jewel]

I could probably do without the bar or make it hiding, but it doesn't take up much space

[devout vault]

They're made for W I D E

[safe dragon]

"oh surely if they're on pc they're going to be landscape mode windows right"

[cinder karma]

Oh you should see my bars, matt

There's only just three of them lol

[marble jewel]

At work I rotated a widescreen so that I could see more of the code at once

[devout vault]

.timer remove 6942131

[heavy dagger]

Timer removed.

[devout vault]

(I found one browsing reddit)

https://i.redd.it/kiiknmin1lzf1.jpeg

[cinder karma]

(Windows, Linux box 1, Linux box 2)

[devout vault]

"why so many videos at once"
the post is titled ADHD heaven....

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/dean-community-vr-icandoanything-gif-18858469

[devout vault]

(though to me it'd be more like overstimulating hell...)

[fleet wren]

ngl I considered making a VR desktop environment work on Linux somehow

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/community-dean-jesus-virtual-gif-4806344

[fleet wren]

why be limited by real resolutions when we can fake them

[marble jewel]

I actually like the VisionOS concept where your background is a passthrough camera, and windows float over it

[devout vault]

I mean if some of the rumors around valve's upcoming headset are to be believed, that'll definitely be doable soon

[fleet wren]

and indeed, 10 youtube videos at a time is the end goal

[devout vault]

See I don't hate that, except that VR lens screens aren't big enough

Which is wild with how big they are

But like my quest3s still means I need to look closer or have much bigger monitors than I would otherwise

[marble jewel]

Yeah, if there was truly AR with no limitations, then that would be much better

Like an actual glass/see-through screen but with images projected

[devout vault]

Maybe one of those 4k-per-eye headsets is better

[devout vault]

I think these exist

But not as much catered towards productivity

[marble jewel]

I think the new Meta Rayban projects the image to your eye

[devout vault]

More so for games (Where you porbably don't need to read tiny text)

[marble jewel]

But they can only show things off to the side as opposed to overlay

[devout vault]

Ah, I haven't really seen those much besides hearing about them

I was thinknig about one I looked at at one point for using with my steamdeck

[cinder karma]

How ks this productive????????

Howwwwww

[devout vault]

define this

More monitors (why are the minotaurs haunting me today) = more productivity

It's basic math

https://tenor.com/view/ncis-hacker-hacked-ive-never-seen-code-like-this-code-gif-26373762

It's hacking movie 101

[marble jewel]

See, most VR desktops are still stuck within the edges of monitors, but I really just want windows to exist anywhere around me

[devout vault]

I mean, steamvr can do that

And probably virtual desktop

But with steamvr I know I've pinned a specific window

[marble jewel]

Well that with seamless passthrough that doesn't make me sick

[devout vault]

Ah

Well

Better get into research I guess? 😛

[marble jewel]

Vision OS Pro is the closest concept, but it needs more FOV

[devout vault]

I've never tried the apple one

[safe dragon]

I don't really expect there to ever be another Vision Pro thing considering how poorly the last one sold

[devout vault]

But is FOV that big of a deal?

The other main thing I have problems with is the whole sweetspot thing

Where text needs to be near the center of the view for it to be legible, because of the lens

[marble jewel]

FOV is just part of making it feel like I'm not looking through a screen since losing my peripheral vision is something that takes me out of it

[devout vault]

Ah

Another complaint of mine is that the 3d image tends to be on top of anything passthrough

That can be useful in some situations (hello, cat on desk)

[cinder karma]

Cat!

[devout vault]

But it can feel really weird for my hand to go behind the screen that's a couple feet away

[cinder karma]

Cat!

[devout vault]

cat is not down here for me to take picture of

[devout vault]

I saw a thing recently that someone did as a layer over steamvr or something, where this is fixed for applications that submit depth information during rendering (which I think I saw how to do in openvr's API).

But the quest3s doesn't let depth information be passed to application it seems? Or something similar that prevented it from working for me

[cinder karma]

O.o

Kpop demon hunters 2 expected to release in 2029

I'm pretty happy with that

That's a good amount of time for them to cook

[marble jewel]

Kinda random, but does anyone use an emoji picker on Linux?

I'm looking at bemoji and wofi-emoji as two options

[devout vault]

You can use emoji on PC outside of discord???? (/s)

[marble jewel]

I'm thinking bemoji is the way to go here

[fleet wren]

I don't have any opinions, but in the process of researching I discovered hyprland added another program to their ecosystem (hyprlauncher, also supports emoji picking)

is that trendy now

[cinder karma]

Yes

Emoji are trendy

[dusty pollen]

what did they even expect

[fleet wren]

they wildly overestimated the money to sense ratio of typical apple customers?

[cinder karma]

Isn't the money to sense ratio of an apple consumer like a million to one

[fleet wren]

you need that number to be at least 20 million if you're selling a headset for 3500 dollars

[cinder karma]

Isn't the new iPhone like $1.7k

||I dont make enough money for that||

[fleet wren]

they have much cheaper models

and a phone is an essential device. an ar headset is decidedly not

[cinder karma]

Tbh I should probably adjust up my electronics sinking fund

Is currently $250 for phone, $1000 for laptop

(These are funds I keep as liquid cash so I can replace things if needed.)

[devout vault]

Your late cat delivery has arrived.

[sand frost]

cat!!

[devout vault]

(He says "you don't need to see vscode, right?")

[cinder karma]

We've got to fix your tire pressure light

Cat!

[fleet wren]

pair reviewer

[cinder karma]

There is a dog

[fleet wren]

new smartphone just dropped that should be well within atra's budget

[dusty pollen]

honestly better than most modern smartphones

[cinder karma]

What is that

[dusty pollen]

raspi I think

in a case with a built in monitor

type c makes me guess it's probably a 4 or something

[fleet wren]

https://www.amazon.ca/HIGOLEPC-PC-Celeron-Computer-Full-Featured/dp/B0CQ4RYC3X this thing apparently

[lethal walrus]

Wouldn't be that wide but could be moving around ports ig

[dusty pollen]

damn, weirdly named raspi /lh

[cinder karma]

I mean

Galaxy a15 is still $200

[prisma flume]

so we missed timer 6942000

[safe dragon]

a shame

[fleet wren]

all the cool kids nowadays use 67 now

which we also passed but shh

[devout vault]

I saw something about 67 being compared to E memes and people arguing in the comments about it and was so confused because I haven't seen the 67 memes

[fleet wren]

deep fried farquaad markiplier my beloved

google pls if it doesn't make sense just say so

[cinder karma]

I'm so ducking losr

Whar the fuck are you guys going on about

Off my lawn.

[fleet wren]

67

[devout vault]

I scored 14/21 on https://e-mail.wtf and all I got was this lousy text to share on social media.

In the footer there's a link to one for JS Date

[fleet wren]

I saw a glimpse of a regex that detected every RFC compliant email addresses and was almost driven to madness

real life cognitohazard

I have gotten every question after the 3rd one wrong, which is nice

[devout vault]

I scored 10/28 on https://jsdate.wtf and all I got was this lousy text to share on social media.

As someone who avoids JS, that was hard

And very much fitting the tld

[dusty pollen]

I scored 16/21 on https://e-mail.wtf and all I got was this lousy text to share on social media.

[fleet wren]

12/21, perfectly cromulent

[devout vault]

showoff

[fleet wren]

11/28 lmao

impossible, a web api that chrome doesn't support for once, it must mean it's strictly beneficial for the web

(re: Temporal)

[dusty pollen]

12/28. purely because I knew that js is allergic to errors

[devout vault]

At least one of my correct answers for jsdate was just a guess

[dusty pollen]

most of mine were

[devout vault]

The rest of mine that weren't entirely a guess were still mostly a guess, based purely on previous question answers, and the fact that this a quiz made to have gotcha answers (and so I could game the system a little)

"hmm, let's pick the most bizarre choice, that's probably correct"

[steel kraken]

a fully RFC compliant regex would be huge due to how recursive it would need and would need to handle worst case of the max header size

[hushed raven]

I scored 14/21 on https://e-mail.wtf and I scored 6/28 on https://jsdate.wtf.
There's a reason I dislike doing date stuff, emails however, did semi decent

[devout vault]

Also, today's tech complaint:

[dusty pollen]

...do you have a timer on

[devout vault]

Brought to you by trying to take this picture

[devout vault]

I frequently have to go and turn these things off

And I don't mean "beofre it takes it"

I mean "it starts and doesn't finish"

(Followup to previous)

I assume it's something exposure related

But I don't want a phone camera for fancy photography. I want it for random quick cat photos

[dusty pollen]

this does look like some kind of long exposure nonsense tbf

[dusty pollen]

hi Mozart! sorry Casey is so rude to you

[devout vault]

Don’t worry, he’s contemplating act two

[dusty pollen]

as he should

[hushed raven]

The (not so) fool proof notepad to cover the power button XD

[devout vault]

It seems to be "night mode", which I somehow I doubt I would be able to convince apple not to change based on its whims and also the modulus of air molecules near the phone

[hushed raven]

I'd argue it's less of a software issue, and more of an issue with the small sensor they choose, night mode is a lot faster with a larger sensor

[devout vault]

Oh, right, apple is dumb and has all of the settings available not inside the app itself

[devout vault]

I'd argue it's more of an apple is dumb issue

[hushed raven]

they what? thats horrible, I hate that so so much

[devout vault]

I never had complaints with my camera on my iphone 8 or whatever it is. Since switching to this one? Camera feels much worse. I can't get the camera close to things or it gets really blurry

But yeah, all settings across the entire operating system are in a "Settings" app

[hushed raven]

That seems like macro mode auto switching, my phone also does that (not apple) and it annoys the hell out of me

[devout vault]

This would be fine for some things, but like

Stuff like this should be in safari itself

[hushed raven]

I'm quite fond of my apps being pretty much entirely contained within themselves, they should not touch the settings app imo

Apple also has such an odd aspect ratio, what on earth

it's so thin and tall

[devout vault]

I'm also a hater of changes that have butterfly-d into the rest of the smartphone ecosystem

You know what I liked about my first iphone? The physical button

Second phone? It was basically a touch pad with a vibration when you used it, which is much less satisfying than a click

Now? Buttons, what are those? We gotta make the screen be within a few nm of the edge of the flat surface

Including the weird top notch thing

The screen-to-edge thing causes me annoyance with typing too

Because my palms or something sometimes accidentally change it to the emoji keyboard while I'm trying to type

[hushed raven]

I have to disagree, on small devices I really don't like physical buttons taking up space that could be used to display more (the pseudo button however is stupid, just give me tactile feedback from the button itself!)

the top notch I also hate, and there does need to be some space between the screen and edge of phone, those two I agree with for the same reasons

[devout vault]

The second part wasn't quite accurate to whatever ios I'm on, but the first was the important part. Thank you

[hushed raven]

I often also send videos on tiktok to people when I don't intend to because of it

[devout vault]

And if you need that space... why not button?

The only reason the button was abolished was because of screen size obsession, l'm 1012% sure of it

please ignore silly things like waterproofing

[hushed raven]

Because I like roughly 3 mm of space between screen edge and phone edge, and I despise tiny button over big button or no button

[devout vault]

.wolfram 3mm in inches

[heavy dagger]

0.1181 inches

[devout vault]

Okay, I'd like a little more than that for the bottom edge

[hushed raven]

That's not even a valid reason to remove a button because buttons are so easily waterproofed

[devout vault]

Because of the emoji keyboard problem

[devout vault]

And the touchpad vibration method wouldn't even have that issue

[hushed raven]

I was about to take a picture of how I hold my phone, only to realise I need my phone to take a picture, when can eyes take pictures to share online, its taken so long so far

[devout vault]

flashbacks to the one really old reddit thread

[hushed raven]

I don't even know what to search to try and find it, I am clueless XD

[cinder karma]

Clearly we should just get brain implants

Anyways

As your local teensy and kinda dumb language model, I'm in the market for a new book to read

[devout vault]

Yeah no

[hushed raven]

I would love a brain implant if I didn't have such a distrust of tech I haven't made

[devout vault]

Yeah. In an ideal world? Sure!

In any world adjacent to this one? I'll become a hermit instead

[cinder karma]

This is the last book

[hushed raven]

Murder at the house on the hill by Victoria Walters. Full transparency, I have not read it (keep forgetting) I have however seen quite a few glowing views on it, it's a murder mystery style book

[cinder karma]

Since then I've tried to get into a book about medicine

[devout vault]

I mean the books I'm interested in are basically all fiction

So... not your style 😛

(at least from the books you've shared reading)

[hushed raven]

Ooo actually I have another book that is closer to medicine and science, bare with while I find it

[cinder karma]

And psychology

[hushed raven]

Pihkal: A Chemical Love Story, it's an autobiographical style book about psychedelics in 2 parts, the first part is a fictional autobiography of the authors Alexander and Ann Shulgin and the second part, so so much detail of 179 psychedelic compounds. It's a semi long one (~500 pages per part at the size of a standard paper back) but as someone with an interest on the effects of various things on the brain and body, it's a pretty good read, factual too

( it's also called Phenethylamines I Have Known and Loved)

[cinder karma]

Thank you!!!!

[regal ingot]

then when you're done with that, there's Tihkal

Purchasing either of them may or may not get you on some sort of watchlist.

[cinder karma]

Enjoy!!!!

[devout vault]

Image stolen from reddit that fits my programming style very well

[fleet wren]

~~ the lion will start to care if its workplace's build environment sets flags that converts those warnings into errors~~

signed, fellow lion

[safe dragon]

[idle shoal]

The easiest coding language is Delphi but it's extremely limited

[lyric bloom]

Huh. That's interesting. I got 50pts of an assignment because my code is technically invalid but ran just fine on my local python interp

but not on my teachers

my guess is that it has something to do with the fact I'm on windows and he's on linux

(potentially using an older version of python, idk)

[pliant snow]

Do you have some library installed you didn't realize

[safe dragon]

or are you doing file path stuff

[cinder karma]

Were you told ehat broke

[safe dragon]

that would be helpful for assignments

[dusty pollen]

tbf if one of you is using cpython and the other is using a different version that could be a thing, but I'd be interested to know what undefined behaviour you were using

[dusty pollen]

out of curiosity, can we see the code in question?

[safe dragon]

reminding me of my pain dealing with firefox and chrome working every so slightly differently in the tiniest ways that break everything

thankfully safari doesn't work on my pc at all so I live in blissful ignorance

[dusty pollen]

ah, the front end dev curse of massive compat tables for every single tiny thing

[safe dragon]

and most of what I run into isn't even in tables

they scroll differently

some stuff is really fast in one but then not the other

I'm just glad it's part of the spec what order events are triggered in

else that would be one hell of a nightmare extra

[cinder karma]

I cant imagine being a front end dev tbh

[safe dragon]

I'm not one by choice really

I mean I don't dislike it but backend is definitely what I prefer

fussing about latency, memory usage, database performance

the good stuff

but I've always been full-stack

[lyric bloom]

        retString += f"\n{row_format.format('Grade Point Average',f'{self.getAverage():,.2f}')}"

[dusty pollen]

what bizarre python impl is your teacher running that doesn't support fstrings

[lethal walrus]

older than version 3.6 i guess

[lyric bloom]

oh, it does, but according to him it should be..

retString += f'\n{row_format.format('Grade Point Average',f'{self.getAverage():,.2f}')}'

which uh.. ?? ??

[dusty pollen]

btw iirc you can even use nested strings inside fstring args using the same quotes as the outer quotes iirc

[lethal walrus]

yep

but it's newish (~3.12 iirc)

[dusty pollen]

he changed to single quotes and that's it?

[lyric bloom]

yep

50 points off, and I was asked if I just trusted ChatGPT

[lethal walrus]

????

[dusty pollen]

...is he asking because he's using it?

because this is nonsense

[lyric bloom]

which was rude, lol, I only used google AI to verify syntax, becuase I test code by running it

[red crest]

ah yes chatgpt ofc, known for giving you the exact same answer but with double quotes instead

[lethal walrus]

how many points is this out of

[lyric bloom]

200

[lethal walrus]

...

oh

[dusty pollen]

the syntactically equivalent double quotes, naturally

[lyric bloom]

yeah, it's not the end of the world

it's just baffling.

[dusty pollen]

tbf I've never seen double quoted f strings but that doesn't mean they're wrong

[safe dragon]

why would this work? Now the single quotes clash and the parsing would break

[lyric bloom]

i use them a lot, actually. Until now nothing's ever told me that it doens't work

[safe dragon]

wait nvm

I learnt to read

[dusty pollen]

the pep for fstrings even includes a double quoted example!

[safe dragon]

yeah everything I see online says both work

[dusty pollen]

https://peps.python.org/pep-0498/

send your teacher the literal reference pep lmao

he can argue with the actual syntax proposal

[safe dragon]

maybe he built his own custom own python interpreter and missed this smh

[dusty pollen]

I would hope anyone building their own interpreter would be referring to the PEPs

[safe dragon]

sure but do they know how to read

[dusty pollen]

fair point

[safe dragon]

this is like 2 screens down in the proposal

too far

[dusty pollen]

now have I ever used an fstring in this way and do I think it's a nice looking way to do what you're doing? ...no comment but it's correct

[cinder karma]

Lol

[safe dragon]

I hold no judgment cause idk python and every time I learn more about it I just get upset

[dusty pollen]

I mean there's something very python about the way that line looks but in this case it's not because python is inherently Like That

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6731 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1436460257151811697)

[safe dragon]

only thing I'll judge here is mixing snake_case and camelCase in your variable names

[dusty pollen]

ew I didn't even notice that, who's responsible for the snake case in python /lh

[lyric bloom]

yeah, that's.. me not harmonizing back to camelCase

(or: "what happens when you statrt with code from stackOverflow, verify how it works, modifying it to your needs based on iteration.")

it's something I'm bad about with code. >_>

because for whatever reason I cannot remember a lot of string format functions

[dusty pollen]

(I'm not convinced literally anyone can)

[cinder karma]

It's sad how many I can remember tbh

[dusty pollen]

fwiw I feel like I would have done this as

def rowFormat(heading, value, formatSpec=""):
    return f'\n<whatever row format evaluates to with {heading} and {value:,{formatSpec}}>'

retString += rowFormat('Grade Point Average', self.getAverage(), ',.2f')

but there's no difference other than preference lmao

woah mobile discord finally has syntax highlighting

[safe dragon]

my limited knowledge on the fucked up shit python does makes me think there's some subtle potential bug here with default values cause python reuses the same default value for future calls to the same function

but I'm guessing strings are immutable

[dusty pollen]

strings are indeed immutable but also I'm not sure what you mean

[safe dragon]

if you have a default value of [] and then push a value into it in the function, and then later call the function again, the value you pushed in there is still there

[dusty pollen]

do you mean if you do param=new ClassMember() it reuses the object? because I feel like that makes sense

[cinder karma]

Yes

[dusty pollen]

you know I never thought about that

but it makes sense that it's true

[cinder karma]

If your default value is mutable and you mutate it you have a bad time

There is also a similar thing with data classes

[safe dragon]

that's one of the fucked up things I know about python

[dusty pollen]

the trick is not to expose or mutate it /lh

[safe dragon]

I think every other language reassigns a new instance of that default value every call

[dusty pollen]

data and meta classes my beloved

[safe dragon]

if you give a C# method parameter an empty list as a default parameter and add to it it's fine cause it's just going to be an empty list again the next time

but python is evil

[dusty pollen]

does c# even allow default params that aren't compile time constants

[safe dragon]

I don't know if python also does for types allocated to the stack like an integer

I assume no

... does python allocate anything to the stack?

I know some languages don't

[dusty pollen]

ints and the various numeric literals are all immutable

[cinder karma]

Are you sure

[safe dragon]

yeah

quite certain

[dusty pollen]

python exists so that people don't have to think about things like stack 😌

[cinder karma]

CS1736

Compiler Error CS1736 - C# reference | Microsoft Learn https://share.google/OtusTtw3duyWOdOBG

[safe dragon]

wait no I'm dumb yeah

C# just blocks reference type default values other than null

it avoids the bug by just not allowing you to try in the first place

[lyric bloom]

looking it up, python uses the stack for functon calls and local variables

[dusty pollen]

that's what I was thinking earlier when I said compile time constants only

[lyric bloom]

at least, cpython does

but i imagine pypy would.

[safe dragon]

my brain was just like "yeah this bug has literally never happened to me in a decade so C# clearly doesn't have it"

which is true

but not in the way I rationalized here

soz

[dusty pollen]

maybe you're just that good a dev

then again you forgot your closing quote

[safe dragon]

no I added it before you said that

ignoring of course that that's also something that'd just make the code not compile in the first place anyway

[dusty pollen]

the real reply is that you're just so used to the ide inserting the closing quote for you, of course

[cinder karma]

Oh god

No. Python doesn't really pit stuff on the stack but it does hold onto a cache of commonly used objects

Like the numbers between -5 and 255

[safe dragon]

you know I don't actually mind the automatic closing parenthesis but I then get annoyed when I need a second parenthesis and instead of typing one it types over the one that's already there so I have to type one again

[cinder karma]

You can tell because you can ask it the memory location of, say, -5

You can also do pointer bullshit and reassign the values in said cache

And suddenly 0 and 1 and everyone is mad at you

[safe dragon]

surely a singular integer is so cheap to create that that's practically not worth the effort compared to all the other performance shortcomings python does still have

does rust keep a cache of integers...

I know languages often have a singular "empty string" somewhere that they reuse

[cinder karma]

You dont get it

The numver is a whole ass python object

[safe dragon]

that's some javascript shit

[cinder karma]

I swear to god I used to be able to setattr an int

[safe dragon]

fascinating honestly

[dusty pollen]

can you not any more? damn

I'm 50% sure javascript still allows setting prototypes on them

[cinder karma]

And ofc rust doesnt keep a cache of int lol

Why would it for smth < 64bits

[dusty pollen]

because python is doing it so it must be correct

...right?

[cinder karma]

Nope

They're on to us

[safe dragon]

wtf

28 bytes

who needs 32 or 64 bit integers when you have 224 bit integers

I learnt new things about python anyway

unfortunate

[nova fiber]

i do not seee

[safe dragon]

that is not ideal

[devout vault]

Brought to you by cat:

Mozart really wishes he could talk to y'all it seems

[safe dragon]

thank you mozart

[dusty pollen]

so fun fact

tl;dr python ints apparently have no max size

[safe dragon]

ah yeah elixir does that too

once you try to add beyond the maximum value of the integer is just... grows it

instead of overflow

[dusty pollen]

and yes 28 bytes is apparently the minimum

[devout vault]

Ah, I always wanted numbers the size of my RAM

I really needed numbers up to 2^68719476736

[safe dragon]

this is actually incredibly useful in advent of code!

and that's what it's all about

[dusty pollen]

according to the pep that introduced it, apparently the reasoning was that learning about large ints vs normal ints was just too much for the average new python dev

[safe dragon]

I kinda get it...

the 2 python users I know at work are not programmers

[devout vault]

Has anyone done advent of code in assembly yet

[safe dragon]

oh for sure

people have done it in vimscript

[devout vault]

Did they have any remaining sanity by the end

What's vimscript

And why does the name instill more fear in me than assembly

[safe dragon]

the configuration language for vim config files

actually some days have been solved in little big planet

if it's turing complete someone's probably done at least a day or two in it

[devout vault]

Honestly, that disturbs me less

[safe dragon]

someone's probably done it in powerpoint

[devout vault]

Has anyone done aoc in minecraft redstone

[safe dragon]

yeah

not all days of course

usually these fun ones end by like day 3

[devout vault]

Doesn't count if it's not a full decembers worth

[safe dragon]

I've done 2 days in uiua

[devout vault]

Is that a programming language based on the spinning cat

[safe dragon]

the what

[devout vault]

(Flashing lights warning) || https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxX_QHay02M ||

I don't think that's the earliest version

[safe dragon]

oh no I do know the cat

[devout vault]

And uh, wow, flashing lights

[safe dragon]

oh wait

you said a not the

I thought you were implying there was one

[devout vault]

...I did say the?

[safe dragon]

no i mean the programming language

[devout vault]

Oh

[safe dragon]

that's what I read

[devout vault]

Ahhh

Well, there should be if there isn't one

[safe dragon]

uiua is this btw

[devout vault]

"foreign does not always mean confusing"
!=
"foreign can never also be confusing"

what does that even output

[safe dragon]

it's a language for sure

[devout vault]

"Uiua lets you write code that is as short as possible while remaining readable"

So uh

Did they learn programming and get taught that esolangs are inherently bad ane evil

It's okay to admit you made a language for fun and it's not practical

That's allowed

And encouraged, even, over... this

[safe dragon]

this is actually based on languages used by real companies

like nvidia

[dusty pollen]

I question the readable part

[devout vault]

I mean, java is (transitively) based on C

[dusty pollen]

but surely those are languages that are transpiled to and not written directly, right? ... right?

[devout vault]

Have they considered the fact that, when using a text based programming language, people often want to actually type their code?

[safe dragon]

wrong

[steel kraken]

Doesn't c let you have raw assembly blocks

[devout vault]

I don't wanna have to open the windows character map every time I need to tweak my program

[dusty pollen]

how DO you write uiua

[safe dragon]

I know for a fact Dyalog APL is actually used

[devout vault]

I think technically it's a compiler extension? Maybe?

But like, you can write that with your keyboard.

Unless by raw you meant the binary format, not mnemonic

[safe dragon]

so uiua actually does something nice compared to its predecessors where you can type out function names and the formatter replaces them with their appropriate character

[dusty pollen]

surely it's some kind of zh- input-like combination of strokes per character

[devout vault]

In which case the answer is still yes, but only as in "nothing is stopping you from abusing (void*) casting"

[safe dragon]

idk the entire field of array programming continues to be bizarre to me

[devout vault]

why

[pliant snow]

code golf

[devout vault]

A physical digital manifestation of the "STOP XYZ. [...] They have played us for absolute fools" meme

[safe dragon]

they're like a worse version of haskell people, believing being more "mathematically pure" and "tacit/pointfree" is desirable

at least haskell people (usually) write words

[dusty pollen]

okay but at least the haskell people know that they aren't and never will be actually mathematically pure so they have some self loathing mixed in /lh

[safe dragon]

they all do that's part of programming

[devout vault]

I just think it's funny (in a "what the heck are you on" way) that a main justification of it is "foreign != confusing"

[dusty pollen]

shout out to my functional programming lecturer's rant about how no programming language is truly functional because outputting to screen is a side effect

[safe dragon]

that's why you have the IO monad...

[devout vault]

What about if I never see the output?

Or better yet

[dusty pollen]

still a side effect! and worse, stateful!

[devout vault]

What if I examine the electric signals in my RAM

Oh

Stateful is bad too?

[dusty pollen]

kinda

[safe dragon]

there's a state monad too!

[devout vault]

What if I run it on my skin, and determine the output based on the pulses I feel? No state!

[cinder karma]

Lol

[safe dragon]

I have actually done a whole year of AoC in haskell

[steel kraken]

State should only be local to a function or passed as an argument

Iirc

[devout vault]

"what's a monad"
^ me every time I see that word
(don't actually explain, I literally do not care)

[dusty pollen]

you aren't supposed to really use state in functional programming. no global vars etc. even local to a function it's complicated

[devout vault]

(and literally will not remember)

[dusty pollen]

same because that's when I tuned out of that course for mental health reasons lmao

[safe dragon]

I even managed to just barely reach my goal of all 25 days combined finishing is less than 1 second

was rough in haskell

absolute joke in rust and C#

my C# year I didn't even pass 0.1 second

[steel kraken]

In every year I eventually get a day where it took a few hours of runtime to spit out the answer because I stopped caring

[cinder karma]

Smh

[dusty pollen]

I bet I could make it take an hour with no arbitrary delays in python

[cinder karma]

I really want to do zig

[lyric bloom]

I do feel python's abstractions sometimes are a bit much

[safe dragon]

oh easily

[lyric bloom]

but it's also easier to work with for a lot of things

[cinder karma]

Because i reallllly want ro be cool

[dusty pollen]

I have routinely had to remove prints from loops because they introduced significant lag

[safe dragon]

AoC always has at least 1 day where a naive implementation would take till the heat death of the universe to finish computation

[cinder karma]

Shouldn't everyone find a therapist

[devout vault]

I swear, the cat picks the worst place to groom himself when on my desk every time

[safe dragon]

tbh prints are really expensive

[cinder karma]

Oooh I could do the fun haskell

[devout vault]

It's either pressing keyboard keys, or making it impossible to move mouse

[lyric bloom]

If you want fun, trying having f'string prints in loops because then it's constructing sveral strings

[dusty pollen]

they shouldn't be as expensive as they were, though

[lyric bloom]

(that's one thing I do not like about python - strings are immutable, so it'll cheerfully let you create several strings by adding them together.)

[safe dragon]

oh I'm sure

[devout vault]

* a therapist for your therapist

[safe dragon]

oh reminds me of something I hate about javascript

[cinder karma]

Sakorona cant see my hands shaking

Such unnecessarily allocation

[dusty pollen]

tbf though part of python's reputation just comes from a decent chunk of its users having no idea how to optimise

[lyric bloom]

but StringBuilder is overkill unless you are routinely doing string ops

[cinder karma]

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=xPHoBsFP-JM&si=E5fyivWL8oXKpvXr

[safe dragon]

in javascript the execution of console.log() is delayed so if you modify the state soon after calling the log function it actually returns the modifed version not the way it was when the console.log was called

[devout vault]

I think the last time I did much with mutable strings was during my C++ era

[lyric bloom]

I think I tried once to replace string builder stuff with like

a html dom generator

[devout vault]

w h a t

[safe dragon]

🌈

[lyric bloom]

and that's when I learnt that python's handling of html display is weird, wacky, and focused around tkinter! :d

[dusty pollen]

there's an easy solution to that though, just like all other javascript nondeterminism

ignore it 😌

[lyric bloom]

(also tkinter's webview, like all good python open source projects, ignores some css.)

wonder if that's changed any

[devout vault]

Okay, I did find one good thing about uiua

[safe dragon]

it's very fun when you place a console.log() before a function call and after it to see what changed and then it prints the same thing twice cause of the asynchronous execution of the log function

[devout vault]

This setting

[safe dragon]

lmao

[cinder karma]

Wth

[safe dragon]

the uiua intepreter was also programmed in rust so it's better

[devout vault]

why isn't the value saved before its passed into-

sprays crab repellant

[cinder karma]

I swear the python team optimized this in 3.12

[devout vault]

-the async function?????

[lyric bloom]

let me look into that, they mioght have, I learnt it from sites stuck in the 3.10 era

[safe dragon]

expensive cloning procedure smh

the real question is why is it asynchronous

[cinder karma]

Let's clone casey

[red crest]

(isnt that javascript thing only a browser specific quirk?)

[safe dragon]

well regardless, it's not behavior you can rely on

idk if it happens in every runtime

[devout vault]

Twice the amount of nothing getting done!

[safe dragon]

but considering chrome and node use the same javascript runtime

and chrome has this behavior

[red crest]

i only ask so blame can be pointed more accurately

and to see if im misremembering

[safe dragon]

there's not a whole lot of javascript runtimes

V8 is what powers like 90% of everything

including chrome

[devout vault]

what is going on in the uiua repo

[safe dragon]

bad apple

[lyric bloom]

nothing in the 3.12 release notes

[dusty pollen]

V8 and node pretty much, right?

[devout vault]

Not just bad apple

Bad apple and that commit message

[safe dragon]

node uses V8

[dusty pollen]

ah

[safe dragon]

next to V8 there's basically just firefox's SpiderMonkey and webkit's JavascriptCore

[cinder karma]

So from what I can find this optimization is a decade old

But if a python string has reference count 1 and you += it

It will just mutate the string

[safe dragon]

even Deno and Bun are just using V8 and JavascriptCore respectively

[devout vault]

Once again

[safe dragon]

let them have fun

[devout vault]

I'm all for fun

[safe dragon]

smh

[devout vault]

But why are you pretending this is Serious Business™

[lyric bloom]

ah, that's better then

[safe dragon]

no one's using this language in production it's ok

[pliant snow]

for when the accountants start asking

[devout vault]

(I might be irrationally hating at the sight of rust, to be fair)

[devout vault]

are you sure about that?

[safe dragon]

ok no

but

[devout vault]

And are you sure that will always be the case?

[lyric bloom]

https://pypi.org/project/tkinterweb/ but yeah, I meant this for like.. html display

supports CSS 2.1 not 3.0, sadly.

[safe dragon]

whenever I see something like this I just look for "alright where does it say it's actually just relying on webview"

[cinder karma]

We need to ask Casey about kar2

[steel kraken]

Went through my chat history and while there were a few days that took days to run I never actually said their durations.
First I found that was long was day16p2 2022 which took 5159465.6478ms

[pliant snow]

are there a lot of people displaying web views in a tkinter app

[safe dragon]

you're reminding me of the evil third option in the Blazor ecosystem

a MAUI app that uses a Blazor webview

[devout vault]

9.5 hours

[lyric bloom]

Probably not. I did it because it was eaiser to build a GUI and display space in HTML for what I was doing

(I don't like tkinter, but it's eaiser than PyQt proved to be.)

[safe dragon]

honestly I wish we had something as powerful as CSS for styling in like

something that isn't the browser

css may be weird with specificty and its cascading nature but man can you achieve just about anything with it

[devout vault]

I might've written a css syntax parser for my game project

Last time I worked on it like a year ago or something

[safe dragon]

this will be a nice one for popovers once firefox implements it
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/At-rules/@position-try

[devout vault]

Again, syntax only, so like

#loading-screen
{
    Texture: null;
}

#loading-screen > #title
{
    RegularFont: 50 default;
    Alignment: Center;
}

#loading-screen > #progress
{
    Texture: null;
}

I had left it at a prototype stage, but it worked decently

[safe dragon]

I've always wanted to write a parser as a toy project

I mean I already have before for uni

in haskell with a lexer and parser combinator

[devout vault]

I’ve written an unreasonable amount of parsers

XML, zip, json at one point I think. Just in my c++ days

[steel kraken]

https://www.yogalayout.dev/yogalayout.dev/docs/about-yoga

[safe dragon]

I've written many "parsers" for stuff like web api filter expressions

but it'd be neat to write a parser for something complicated with proper error handling

[devout vault]

Amazing

[devout vault]

Oh, proper error handling? That wasn’t on the table here

[steel kraken]

Main place I've seen yoga used outside of internal to react native, is ink, which is a mechanism to make command line applications in react https://github.com/vadimdemedes/ink

[safe dragon]

there's something incredibly cursed about making cli applications in react

[devout vault]

Most recent parser I’ve done is a plain infix expression to postfix expression, but with operator precedence, parenthesis, and unset operator support

[devout vault]

why does a command line program need a layout stuff

[safe dragon]

do you use parser combinator libraries or just a bunch of regular C# string handling and regex

[devout vault]

I’ve never used a proper library, but I should

If I poke at an actual programming language like I sometimes want to, then I will

[steel kraken]

For the output to be sparkly, rewrite previous outputs with new outputs in place and render dynamic tables and stuff without thinking

[devout vault]

But like… the SpaceCore content engine thing? By hand as well.

[steel kraken]

Pretty much all the ai clis use ink

[devout vault]

Token string parsing rewrite recently? Also by hand

(but that’s too on topic to talk about further)

I kinda want a fancy programming language that can do all my fancy programming language things, but is also simple to use for like… event scripts and such

[safe dragon]

[devout vault]

I was gonna use yarn spinner for dialogue/events, which is literally what it’s designed for.

But have something separate for the EVS stuff (the flecs script stuff).

And then c# for the actual gameplay (or something else if I changed my mind yet again).

Too many syntaxes

Not that it’s a problem for me, but it’s still a bit odd

[dusty pollen]

predicting it right now

atra is about to send a message about using a yarn spinner for knitting a sock

[devout vault]

Like if someone were to make a big mod for my hypothetical game: “hi you need to learn json xml css yarnspinner flecsscript angelscript and probably more”

[steel kraken]

But atra probably doesn't have access to discord as their phone is also knitting socks

[devout vault]

Sure, right tool for the job, but also maybe not have 20 tools?

I still wanna make a standalone game but I need to learn how to tame my drive to work on things

[dusty pollen]

I have a yarn spinner and it's my favourite knitting and crochet tool. 10/10 get yourself a wool jeanie

[steel kraken]

Don't forget nesting all of those tools into each other and remembering to escape all the required characters to be valid outer format

[devout vault]

Like I saw this recently, and it got me curious about using c# for GC/Wii homebrew again

https://github.com/MichalStrehovsky/zerosharp

[steel kraken]

Some of my work stuff is three layers deep in formats and it's very annoying how much needs to be escaped

[devout vault]

But then I need a game engine for it, and Godot would definitely be pushing it for that limited amount of RAM (using 3.x without a bunch of stuff - 4.x was a no go)

[steel kraken]

I was checking up on monogame progress yesterday and they have all consoles but one working in .net8 with aot compilation, and there's a workaround for the last remaining console

[devout vault]

And that means a game engine abstraction potentially if I want the fancier stuff when using on not-potato

[devout vault]

“All consoles”
Can’t wait to run .net on my NES
(/s, I know what you meant)

[devout vault]

I mean this is part of why I would have a bajillion formats... doing anything with SDV json is incredibly obnoxious for that exact reason

(as in, formats for different asset types)

[cinder karma]

Smh

[devout vault]

Clearly, a valid reason as any to make a programming language

A more valid reason than most, even

either way I'm sure it'd turn out more sane than uiua

[devout vault]

possibly more sane than JS, even, despite me being me

[devout vault]

Just the screenshot from the store, but this gave me such an unreal feeling

(That’s not why I opened them of course, I just hadn’t see those screenshots yet 😛 )

[cinder karma]

How many more hours?

8?

10?

[safe dragon]

I'm going with 8 hours and 21 minutes

[cinder karma]

Now a good question

Should I bring my laptop with me to China

[devout vault]

GLAD I TRIED OPENING THE DEMO EARLY

[safe dragon]

huge

Gratz

[devout vault]

And now we wait. (Also had dinner, hence location change)

[cinder karma]

@crystal wren temporarily rename this channel for KAR?

Jk

Or maybe not

[dusty pollen]

is it available for switch 1?

no :(

[devout vault]

This game is literally the reason I bought a switch 2

[lethal walrus]

You're playing games on your switch 2 and I'm installing fortnite to use the social features because I'm on linux

[devout vault]

KAR2 isn’t a game. It’s a life changing experience which never leaves you

[cinder karma]

Is the game literally that good

[devout vault]

Of course if you’re insane like me

[cinder karma]

What do you like aboit it that other racers dont do?

[lethal walrus]

Kirby

[steel kraken]

its screenshots like this that remind me that smash bros is part of the kirby franchise

[red crest]

i dont remembver joining this channel /lh

[devout vault]

The not-racing mode

[devout vault]

Can you tell that the same person who made KAR has been the person behind all the smash bros games

[steel kraken]

also both brawl and ultimate story have kirby save the day

[devout vault]

Yep