programmers-off-topic

[cyan shadow]

You should go if you have time and an interest in transport

They have some very nice locomotives and rolling stock

[safe dragon]

I have pto rn

as I switch between contracts

[cyan shadow]

I have a bone to pick with ns tho

[safe dragon]

what did they do

[cyan shadow]

Got caught in the middle of 4 different disruptions and had to take my parents on a bus from our intended transfer station

We were packed in like sardines, I was so mad

And then I managed to tap out RIGHT before my phone died

[safe dragon]

damn

[cyan shadow]

The guy who actually tapped it for me was like man, you're living on the edge

[safe dragon]

4 disruptions is wild

[cinder karma]

Who the fjck decided that having blue text be uncommented lines and black be commented lines make sense

[cyan shadow]

I'll be using my OV card on the bus next time

[safe dragon]

yeah I never use my phone for that

[cyan shadow]

All four lines out of the same station!

[safe dragon]

reminds me of when all trains in Gouda were delayed because there were swans on the tracks they had to remove first

[cyan shadow]

Only one solitary train to nijmegen hightailed it out before that line closed too

In this case it was 4 broken down trains

[safe dragon]

was in a broken train a few months ago

[cyan shadow]

One on each line

Same

[safe dragon]

don't recommend it

[cyan shadow]

Rolled back to Antwerp at fuck me it's late o' clock then took a cab home

[safe dragon]

extremely hot inside, no place to sit for me, just standing there for like an entire hour

[cyan shadow]

Or technically
We stopped behind a broken train

[safe dragon]

I was in the broken train

[cyan shadow]

So we still had power

Got home at 4am in any case

[safe dragon]

damn

[cyan shadow]

Didn't even get to MY home

[safe dragon]

how late were you out to begin with

[cyan shadow]

Got out of the cab at the Boi's instead since my bike was stuck in the ns shed

[cyan shadow]

Train departed from antwerp at 9

We sat somewhere near Roosendaal until 1am before we were sent back

[safe dragon]

wtf

that's ridiculous

[safe dragon]

ur theme

[cyan shadow]

The Belgians were very good to us at least

They had water bottles and some snacks for us when we got back

[safe dragon]

must've been some crazy disruption though

[cyan shadow]

1am stroopwafels hit different

Some fuckass train broke down in such a way that it couldn't be towed

[safe dragon]

I've been in the broken train and still only had like a 2 ish hour delay

[cyan shadow]

Is what I think happened

I actually have no idea to this day what it was

[safe dragon]

[cyan shadow]

I was with a friend and we ended up adopting a kid studying at a hbo in our city and ferrying her too in the cab

Plus some random Portuguese guy

[cyan shadow]

Poor thing was crying, when the cab driver tried refusing to take us all the way I just looked at her, then back at him, and then back at her, and then back at him because wtf

He had tried dumping us in the city the Belgians paid him to take us to, he only agreed to take us to our city when we agreed to a larger fare than what his meter was gonna show

[safe dragon]

lovely...

[cyan shadow]

Today I had no weeping French teenager in tow, only my parents

But that was scary enough

My mom has a bad back and I was worried she wouldn't get a seat

[safe dragon]

usually there's at least 1 reasonably thoughtful person lending their seat...

I'm sure your parents were very impressed by our public transport system

[cyan shadow]

Yeah my mother got a seat eventually

Someone offered my dad one too but he didn't take it

[cyan shadow]

My mother's only comment so far has been that she's seen worse travelling with Indian Railways

[safe dragon]

it's... something

public transport always seems to be at its worst when I'm showing someone else around

[cyan shadow]

Same

I rarely have trouble otherwise

Tbh
Had we gone home via Rotterdam we'd have been fine

[safe dragon]

I take 2 trains and a metro to get to work every day with basically no issues and then when I'm with someone else it all breaks down

[cyan shadow]

Yep

[safe dragon]

unless it's with my mom cause she'll make us leave extremely early just in case... which means nothing actually goes wrong and we end up arriving way too early

[cyan shadow]

Yep

That's how it goes

I have to go to this same city on Friday lol

Immigration matters

[safe dragon]

hope things work out

[cyan shadow]

I'm departing two hours early just in case

[safe dragon]

bring a powerbank...

[cyan shadow]

Yep

Fuck I need to charge it

Weh

Oh right, I need to fish my passport out too

[lethal walrus]

i guess search on kde is no better than windows, what is this??

[thin estuary]

this is hel

[safe dragon]

it's somewhere in the metadata 🌈

[fleet wren]

shell

[devout vault]

if (new Random(searchTerm.GetHashCode()).Next(10000) == 0) results.Shuffle();

…hmm, that would only randomize the order

Well you get the idea

[pliant snow]

This

You can look at the .desktop file for it, that's what it's parsing for keywords

[safe dragon]

modify your .desktop files to avoid false positives

ez

[cinder karma]

Smh

[pliant snow]

I mean, it's not the worst idea

[safe dragon]

I did that for discord to launch it as a wayland window instead of x11

on my laptop

[pliant snow]

The secret is to make a copy to the local user setting before editing them

[devout vault]

[devout vault]

nintendo is a company of cowards

[safe dragon]

they fear the KAR fandom

[devout vault]

It's not like we've bgeen waiting for this game for 20 years or anything

[devout vault]

disappears for the next hour

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/nod-magic-poof-disappear-i-dream-of-jeannie-gif-9396045698105338463

[uncut seal]

I can't believe they're putting Skaia in KAR2

[cinder karma]

I too am jealous, duo

...when you guys say last five games, do you count the flavors of wordle separate or no

[devout vault]

I may have had some reactions.

(Full reactions: https://gist.github.com/spacechase0/c67953b247261738b23ed75ee6d89147 )

[safe dragon]

I'm sorry to hear you're going broke

[uncut seal]

It kinda pisses me off how KAR2 might cause me to buy a switch 2 before Pikmin 5

I really wish they would make it available for switch 1

[cinder karma]

Congratulations!!!!!!+

[devout vault]

Given the graphics, I imagine it'd be a huge downgrade if they did that

[uncut seal]

it'll still have to wait for me to finish my master though

I'm at a point where I really don't care about graphics at all as long as I can play a game without having to buy a new system

[devout vault]

I may or may not go missing and not be modding the weekends of november 8th and 15th, for undisclosed completely disclosed reasons

[uncut seal]

What's the most annoying with this console situation is that I haven't touched my switch in months, and when I do play it, it's never for a long period.

so buying a new console is really an idea I don't like

it need at least 3 games I'll play

[devout vault]

I would say "what about mario kart world"... if this were any game but KAR 2

[uncut seal]

I'm thinking I'll wait for Rythm Heaven Groove and the next Pikmin game they said they were working on (which is a fun thing for them to say btw)

[cinder karma]

Have you seen the graphics of this game? Perfect. https://dlab.epfl.ch/wikispeedia/play/

No game will do better

[uncut seal]

I'm not interested in MKW at all, I already have MKW (Mario Kart Wii)

[devout vault]

Sit down mario kids, it's time for the kirby adults to play

[devout vault]

I'm not sure what your definition of "graphics" is, but it doesn't seem to be the same as mine

[devout vault]

Peak KAR machine customization right here

[cinder karma]

Isn't it perfect?

[devout vault]

The corn? yes

[pliant snow]

omg

[rain apex]

Parsnip-mobile when

[devout vault]

I watched that spam message get deleted in real time

[cinder karma]

Casey you should try to get a kar2 stardew crossover Easter egg

[uncut seal]

I mean, Sakurai has so much freedom, it's basically an indie game

[devout vault]

Pretty sure that would need CA approval, and he doesn’t really do crossovers in SDV itself. 😛

(and that’s not even thinking about getting nintendo approval)

[devout vault]

I mean it’s probably a full AAA budget, so not sure that counts

Even if he is doing it through his own company now

[uncut seal]

the definition of indie I like the most uses creative freedom as the criteria. Basically, it's indie if the creative lead was not obstructed by any higher management or investors, it's indie (to me at least)

[marble jewel]

We live in a time where Dave the Diver could be nominated for Best Indie Game, so AAA budgets no longer exclude you from consideration

All that matters now is "vibes"

[devout vault]

Dave the Diver had AAA budget?

I've never even looked at the game to be honest

[marble jewel]

It was a whole debate:
https://www.pcgamer.com/indie-game-debate-dave-the-diver/

https://www.thegamer.com/dave-the-diver-indie-game-mintrocket-nexon/

[uncut seal]

I mean, what's Silksong's budget?

[marble jewel]

My favorite indie game is Zelda

[devout vault]

It's only indie if it was made in India, otherwise it's just sparkling video game

[uncut seal]

that type of inherently broken debate where people try to give a binary definition of something that's a spectrum will forever be hilarious to me

words are made up type of deal

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/gatekeeping-gatekeeper-exclusionist-lgbt-lgbtqia-gif-12696545

[dusty pollen]

so about that

it was apparently technically nominated for best independent game, aka best game not in a franchise. yes I'm serious

at least that's what I heard

[marble jewel]

Ah so true indies lack the pendents

[ivory shadow]

I have always viewed indie as meaning independent of publisher. Mainly in that case meaning publisher creative control rather than publisher funding.

Because the problem with publishers isn't giving people money, it's forcing them to be more formulaic for "safety" and crushing the art.

[safe dragon]

not that dave the diver is in any way independent

nexon essentially owns the studio that made it

indie vs AAA like many other terms is vibe based

what would independent even mean. Is valve independent? They're a private company not subsidized by anything higher up and have full creative control

should we have nominated half life alyx for best indie game...

I like my vibe based definitions

(also my vibes definitely exclude dave the diver under the term indie game. There's basically nothing indie about it other than the art style)

oh just saw independent in this case meant not part of a franchise...

Can't believe Dark Deity 2 isn't indie

and sekiro is...

[worn remnant]

there are always edge cases and line-blurring cases, but to my ears independent is creatively/productionally independent, so the people making the game get to decide what it is, how it works, etc. and nobody higher up is controlling the product (like khloe said)

[cinder karma]

Someone needs to do an alignment chart

Is wikispeedia an indie game

Indie game y/n https://share.google/nCkPt9oZklXMG0zwP

[safe dragon]

creatively/productionally independent is such a difficult thing to define either way cause many games almost everyone would consider indie have publishers who absolutely had some creative control over the product

[worn remnant]

i think in many cases, a studio getting funding from a publisher or conglomerate or whatever gets the money with strings attached, so indie is a sort of synecdoche for independence from funding

[safe dragon]

sdv had a publisher, at launch anyway

though idk if they funded it

from what I remember they came into the picture very late

[worn remnant]

i don't know the story for sdv but i remember the chucklefish logo from the bootsplash

[safe dragon]

always reminds me of a talk someone in uni I think had once that I attended about how almost anything we think is very straight forward is nearly impossible to strictly define

I think their example was a chair

[cinder karma]

I mean, go define the term "paycheck to paycheck"

[worn remnant]

anyway i have no interest in dave the diver or whatever awards show this flimflam is about so i will be leaving now, bye /lh

[cinder karma]

(I dont know what Dave the diver is)

[safe dragon]

I think the number of people who care about these awards is relatively low

if they didn't announce new games during the game awards almost no one would watch

I don't even think the game awards cares about the awards

they usually rush through em

but now that silksong has been released...

what point is there to watching em...

[cinder karma]

I don't even know what award you're talking about tbh

[safe dragon]

essentially oscars or emmy's or whatever but for games

big hall full of game devs sitting there for some of em to go receive an award on stage to say some words

while a lot of new games get announcement trailers in between

[safe dragon]

money in bank money spent on staying alive no money left to save up

[red crest]

to see it lose to powerwash simulator 2 (out now!), of course

[cinder karma]

Meanwhile

Guess what is happening tomorrow?

[safe dragon]

Ado is releasing new music

[cinder karma]

Ejae is releasing a single!

[safe dragon]

damn different artist

korean instead of japanese

idk who she is but good luck to her

[cinder karma]

(Rumi's singing voice)

[safe dragon]

oh kpop demon hunters

I did watch that

I'll watch just about anything that's a musical

ado's also releasing music tho

[ivory shadow]

Yes, Valve is independent. Their company is not publicly traded so they don't have to worry about fiduciary responsibility. That's why they can afford to basically do whatever the fuck they want

If they weren't independent I guarantee we'd be on. Half-Life 7 or 8 by now and they'd be mediocre recycled slop

[safe dragon]

🙏

we wouldn't have the 3 meme

[ivory shadow]

But good luck calling anything made by a multi billion dollar company independent. People would be arguing in bad faith about it all year long

[safe dragon]

very true

though it does sound fun to call whatever game valve releases next an indie game

[cinder karma]

[Redacted] failed. You may want to read this very file for more information. Is there more information?

No

No there is not

[steel kraken]

EA now fits under that definition too

[devout vault]

Somebody out there said "I wish indie games had bigger budgets" and the monkey's paw saw the perfect way to make that happen

[safe dragon]

not really. EA is now owned by saudi arabia

[devout vault]

The monkey's paw sees no purpose in trivial things like "being reasonable"

[safe dragon]

they just now have 1 really big and powerful stakeholder...

[steel kraken]

Having the owners be Saudi arabia vs gabe Newell isn't that different compared to being publicly traded

[safe dragon]

hmmm

but all companies are owned by someone...

[devout vault]

So the only indie games are the ones made without a formal company?

(ie. SDV stopped being an indie game once ConcernedApe LLC was formed)

(I mean, you could make some argument in that direction with some stuff, like Minecraft)

[safe dragon]

minecraft is a fun case of "is it indie"

it... was? indie

[steel kraken]

At least for PC/mobile yeah

[cinder karma]

SEGFAULT! Nice!

All I was doing was editing text!

[safe dragon]

congratulations!

[devout vault]

Maybe try editing text at the correct memory address

[modest jewel]

Im programming in python

Anyone like python?

Like comment

[pliant snow]

Likes, comments, and subscribes

[marble jewel]

And hit that bell for notifications

[cinder karma]

You know, if i did more personal projects

I could have a great time streaming soldering on twitch

[devout vault]

If you end up craving a personal project idea, make me one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_PM3ZbvHeA

[cinder karma]

Every time I accidentally pull my arm out of its socket I consider asking a doctor about it

And then I forget for two years

And I pull my arm out again 🙁

[devout vault]

(I actually had a fun idea if I knew more about physics of flight and stuff - a drone that drives around on the ground, but starts flight after taking off on a ramp)

(how hard could a DIY drone be?)

In completely unrelated news (but actually, for once) - I need a decoy keyboard for my desk

[cinder karma]

No. You need to pet the cat

[devout vault]

And knowing this cat, probably the ability to easily switch which is the decoy based on which one he chooses

[devout vault]

I mean, often times I do.

But then I want to type a quick message in discord

And he is blocking access to the keyboard entirely

[dusty pollen]

is your cat sitting on a laptop keyboard or an external keyboard

[devout vault]

(Especially since I have to kinda hide the keyboard for him to not press keys while deciding to sit and groom himself)

[dusty pollen]

if it’s a laptop keyboard, you need a heated pad, not a decoy keyboard

[devout vault]

Desk + desktop

[dusty pollen]

then it’s out of spite and no decoy will work

[devout vault]

The cat and setup responsible for this

[devout vault]

Well, in the past I've had desks that had a lower area for keyboards which I've literally never used.

So if I had one of those, I could continue to not use it most of the time, but use it as needed during cat embargo season

[cinder karma]

Casey you can get those aftermakewt

Amazon.com : Alera ALE Valencia Series Underdesk Keyboard/Mouse Shelf, 28w x 12d, Black : Office Products https://share.google/7kaPIQDp75PiFnRrX

[cinder karma]

Blue tooth key board backup?

[marble jewel]

That or you teach your cat how to program so that you can become elite hackers

https://tenor.com/view/double-keyboard-ncis-gif-14884655

[marble jewel]

I actually use this one and it has been great for allowing me to reclaim most of my desk space.
VIVO Large Under Desk 34 x 11 inch Computer Keyboard and Mouse Tray with Swinging Height Adjustment, 12 Settings, Platform Drawer for Typing, Black, MOUNT-KB34S https://a.co/d/eZrHVGs

I'm also using a mounted monitor of course, so my desk is fully free for useless clutter

[safe dragon]

the scene so upsetting that it made my sister, my mom and I basically quit watching ncis

we tried to continue but it was never the same

[marble jewel]

Sounds like you have a very technically competent family. I'm guessing my mom/sister would both wonder what's wrong with this scene.

[safe dragon]

my sister's a software engineer and my mom is uh... I mean I suppose she's better with tech than your average 60+ year old that's for sure

she learnt to program on punch cards back during her math degree

[marble jewel]

tbh, anyone who learned that probably definitely understand the fundamentals of programming better than any modern day vibe coder

[safe dragon]

she does tend to just leave tech problems for when I visit for the weekend

but I don't have to be worried she'll follow a scam link or something

[marble jewel]

I've educated my parents to the extent that they should fear technology and trust no one

[safe dragon]

my dad teaches other retired people how to use their laptops and tablets to do basic things like online banking

[devout vault]

I have one for using with my VR headset (the one I showed you before), and it even has multiple connect configurations.

But the layout is a little weird since it’s meant to be portable, so I’d rather not use much 😛

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-crazy-cat-keyboard-cat-fast-gif-5753018

[safe dragon]

that gif is older than half this server

[marble jewel]

I'm sad that the days of dressing up your cat and manipulating them to do things like this are done

[devout vault]

Hmph. Real pros use that desk space for even more clutter

[marble jewel]

Now funny cat videos performing human tasks are all AI

[safe dragon]

they dance to some bailando song thing

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/keyboard-cat-musical-cat-beethoven-cat-gif-3298763

[safe dragon]

keyboard cat 🙏

[marble jewel]

Kids these days won't know they missed out on the best times

[devout vault]

The gif I posted was the first one that showed when I searched for keyboard cat.

How the mighty have fallen 😔

[safe dragon]

[marble jewel]

I can hear the song in my head just watching that

[safe dragon]

but do you remember that the keyboard cat video actually has a second half

[safe dragon]

tbh there are parts of that time that are fine if they're forgotten

I don't think anyone needs to remember Fred

[devout vault]

Surely not.

I can’t find a source of laptop cats date, so I’ll just choose to live in ignorance

[safe dragon]

I did the googling

you are right

this video not even 10 years old yet

https://www.instagram.com/p/BASg5rnP4N1/

aaronsanimals

When you forget about the homework.

Likes

81007

Instagram

finding this took more work than I would've liked

[devout vault]

I feel like I saw this long before Stardew was a thing. (Even if Stardew is 9 not 10)

Surely I am not hallucinating my memories

[safe dragon]

https://youtu.be/FLSvlp3xU9U?si=XKs-ntUM_TZ_ET0H&t=68

here's the full video

it really can't be older cause this is definitely the owner of the cat who makes all these videos and his watermark is in the gif you posted

it just uh, lost a lot of resolution along the way

[cinder karma]

Cat tax

I hate change

[safe dragon]

what if they change verilog to fix some issues you have with it

[cinder karma]

Everything is different for no reason

It took me like twenty minutes to work the new output selector

And snapping isnt working right

[cinder karma]

God i hate cliosoft

God

The way it's designed is just so dumb

I go to cancel a checkout

Instead of discarding my changes, it throws an error message because there are changes

I know there are changes. I'm trying to discsrd them you fuck

If I wanted to keep them I would have selected check in

Who decided the default behavior would be to repeatedly throw error messages instead of assuming the user knows ehat they are doing

[safe dragon]

me

tbh usually if possible you go for "are you sure [y/n]" instead of blocking entirely

[lyric bloom]

Today in aaargh:

        out=$(bridge link show 2>/dev/null | $AWK_CMD '{ for(i=1;i<=NF;i++) if ($i ~ /@/) { split($i,a,"@"); print a[2] } }' | $SORT_CMD -u)
        out=$(printf "%s\n" "$out" | $AWK_CMD 'NF{print $0}' | $SORT_CMD -u 2>/dev/null || true)

I guess I will understand awk soon!

[pliant snow]

False!

[safe dragon]

I have no idea what awk is

[lyric bloom]

it's a scripting language tool for Unix/Linux. You use it for data extraction and reporting

in this case, it's iterating through the output of something and pulling out a list of bridge names

[safe dragon]

I knew the command existed but I barely even know how to use grep

[marble jewel]

I love trading clarity for conciseness /s

[lyric bloom]

I had tocomment that code! :V

but yeah. I suspect this is someone's professional proxmox script code that's meant to just Work (TM)

[marble jewel]

I mean who needs to understand anything if you can wrap a dozen steps into 2 lines

[lyric bloom]

..Have you seen some of the windows server documentation?

I think at times we're not meant to understand anything

[safe dragon]

windows server has documentation?

[lyric bloom]

Yes. It's not super useful (I think I beat my head on it for a solid hour trying to figure out how to setup VPN tunnels) but it has it

[pliant snow]

grep is just regex

[marble jewel]

regex is just CTRL+F on steroids

[cinder karma]

Why use awk

When you can use perl

[safe dragon]

I do know grep is just regex but I basically don't use the command line so the mere idea of piping something into another command via the command line feels weird and unnatural

well, I use the command line, but just to call a single command to do a thing

cargo run

[cinder karma]

screaming

[safe dragon]

oh no

[cinder karma]

Why did I chose this life

I could have chosen so many different lives

So many

[marble jewel]

But what is free will even?

[fleet wren]

the economic situations means there's no free will anymore
at best 50% off will

[safe dragon]

buy 1 get 1 free

[cinder karma]

Why are you even looking at the simlink location ahhhhh

(Okay I guess that makes sense)

(Okay but no really whyyyyy)

[dusty pollen]

- python devs, 2025, colourised

[cinder karma]

Don't subtweet me

Just @ me if you're gonna be like that about my nested list comps

[dusty pollen]

(find -exec) grep -HiC5 my beloved

[cinder karma]

Welp I'm completely blocked on task A time to go to task B

[marble jewel]

When I'm completely blocked by task A, I remember I have a slice of cheesecake in my fridge

[cinder karma]

Why do I have two different installations of python 3.11

[lethal walrus]

python 3.11 and ｐｙｔｈｏｎ3.11

[cinder karma]

Welp now I'm in possession of two copies of python 3.13

Yay! I can now Path.walk

[safe dragon]

gratz

[lyric bloom]

"Text: @ Received: ^^Hi @, I received the photos you sent. The farm is running quite well. ^I have good news for you - Noah's family's secret recipe, Berry Cheesecake, is ready to be passed on to you. The recipe is simple, just needs cheese, blueberries, and blackberries. It's both delicious and healthy. ^^Noah%item cookingRecipe BerryCheesecake%%[#]" string parse fun! 😄

(I'm writing a json rewriter to make this mod easier to convert.)

[marble jewel]

mod... you're scaring off the non-modders

[safe dragon]

pure fear

[marble jewel]

Sorry. This is supposed to be a safe space from us dirty stinkin modders.

[lyric bloom]

fair, although this is where I'm talking about a python script. <_<

rather than the mod itself

[safe dragon]

ur forgiven

I'd probably use a parser combinator for something like this

[lyric bloom]

that might work, yeah. I was just going to split apart on certain characters

[dusty pollen]

to convert to i18n?

[lyric bloom]

partially

I'm (as an experiment) seeing if I can convert a MFM mod to CP

so a lot of it is just parsing out for % to %%, removing it, etc.

(then doing changes to it

[cinder karma]

Ngl

I got allll the way to the end before I realized it wasn't real

There wasn't a cheesecake

[lyric bloom]

i know. 🙁

i kinda want to go get some

maybe once I start my next load of laundry I can take my shower and get going to places

[cinder karma]

Ooh!

I've learned the magic of the delayed wash cycle

I set up my washer on a delay so it starts roughly an hour before I get home

[lyric bloom]

our washers are too simple for that, lol

also wired backwards so you have to hang around it once you start it to make sure it actually finishes

[devout vault]

the people who debug it when it breaks

[safe dragon]

it won't break you took into account every possible future scenario

[lyric bloom]

I hate things like this, as a sidenote. It feels v ugly: #parse title, somehow.

        if v['Title'].substring(1) == '%':
            uei18Title = False
            i18nData[titleKey] = "[unused]"
        else:
           i18nData[titleKey] = v['Title']```

that ue is use, just caught the typo

and fixed substring

but i have to, i forgot titles can just be like %farm or something

[pliant snow]

what language is that?

[lyric bloom]

python

it's what I default to when I'm writing something quick

[pliant snow]

python has a substring function?

[lyric bloom]

no, I had to change it to v['Title'][1]

it dos have string slicing functionality which I don't use very often.

as I just demonstrated 😂

.. I shoulc check if python is 0-indexed

[pliant snow]

[0] surely

[lyric bloom]

yeah, i fixed it. I sometimes just don't think sometimes and there's a reason I debug-print my code while building it p heavily

[cinder karma]

Do you not use a proper ide

Also, startswith

I mean, I don't use a proper ide but I have an excuse

[pliant snow]

eh, [0] is fine

[cinder karma]

Python doesnt have the concept of characters, aquo

Do that and you allocate a new string

[lyric bloom]

I do, in fact, use PyCharm.

it does not usually suggest things like that

[safe dragon]

I love allocating entire new arrays and strings with anything I do

shoutout to javascript and python

[pliant snow]

startswith is slower tho iirc

[safe dragon]

allocation of a single char would be pretty cheap

[pliant snow]

[0] will throw an error if the string is empty tho

[lyric bloom]

that'll.. never happen in this file

[pliant snow]

that's what they all say

[lyric bloom]

no, I know that because I'm specifically converting two files

then 'll nver use this again. :V

(which is probably for the best because parsing itemIds is uh.. stares viciously at this)

[devout vault]

Thanks, cat, I really wanted to run my favorite program, +63

[safe dragon]

love that one

[prisma flume]

ah, i see the problem. you forgot to write cat. hope this helps

[devout vault]

I mean, it was literally the cat doing it. that shouldn’t be necessary.

You don’t see people using grep to launch grep, do you? crimes don’t count

[steel kraken]

cat +63 would probably be a file not found or something

[safe dragon]

why is cat even called cat

is it an acronym

short for catenate, a variant form of concatenate...

don't think I've ever used cat to concatenate anything before

[prisma flume]

well it's concatenating them to the current terminal output see

[safe dragon]

of course

[cinder karma]

Smh

It's clearly Mozart's computer

See! Look at the host name

[steel kraken]

I think I've used cat for its concatenating purpose with piping

[cinder karma]

How do you use cats for their intended purpose

Dont cats use you for their intended purpose

Also

Cat tax

[rain apex]

cat

why he brown

[steel kraken]

she is reflective

[cinder karma]

Such pretty eyes

[devout vault]

Some black cats get like that depending on the lighting. I’ve heard it called coal black.

Kirby was like that

[rain apex]

cat!

[devout vault]

You can kinda see it in the first picture, but not the second

(These are very old pictures 😛 )

Even older picture where the brown is very visible

[rain apex]

chocolaty

[steel kraken]

She is black outside of sunlight, but oxidises in sunlight

[cinder karma]

Ready for Halloween

[cinder karma]

Ready for Christmas

[rain apex]

oh what a shape

[steel kraken]

(referencing starship oxidization which also is black that became nice and orange)

[rain apex]

find asymptote of 3rd deg polynomial

[devout vault]

no thanks

Math scary

[cinder karma]

vaguely points

Like that

[dusty pollen]

...why would a 3rd deg polynomial have an asymptote

hmm, non linear asymptotes are a thing. sounds Made Up

wait, hold on, it doesn't have any of those either! I knew that sounded weird

oh god quora displays answers from their useless AI as normal answers now, that's why

[steel kraken]

dead internet theory

[uncut seal]

theory

[steel kraken]

its starting to become a theory in the physics sense rather than the conventional sense

[cyan shadow]

What is concatenation is not a question I thought I'd be asking five minutes after waking up, ngl

[dusty pollen]

an actual human in the answers said that x³ has an asymptote of the form √(x⁶+5th degree polynomial) but considering that that's just a (possibly complex) third degree polynomial itself I'm going to go ahead and dismiss it as nonsense

[dusty pollen]

joining two things end to end, like two lists into a big list or two words into one long word

concatenating "fizz" and "buzz" gives you "fizzbuzz", for example

I think if you give cat multiple inputs it concatenates them but really it's just used to output the input to screen

[steel kraken]

Or to pipe to another programs input

[dusty pollen]

that's a surefire way to get shouted at by purists for "piping cat to grep instead of grepping directly!"

[cyan shadow]

Ah

[rain apex]

that was the joke but wtf is a non linear asymptote

[devout vault]

So what you’re saying, that question…

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-admiral-ackbar-its-a-trap-meme-gif-8125029

[devout vault]

(Cat is grooming next to my keyboard)

(He just typed a bunch of of zeroes, but hasn’t pressed enter again yet)

Switched windows so he won’t, but preview of what he wanted to tell yall

He typed nothing further - I guess spamming in notepad wasn't as fun

[dusty pollen]

you're censoring him

[devout vault]

I mean he never pressed enter a second time, and I did send a screenshot of what he managed... so if anything I'm enabling him 😛

[cinder karma]

I agree, Mozart, with regard to the fluffy blanket

[devout vault]

He hasn't been using the fluffy blanket lately

[fleet wren]

the number of zeroes is how many foods he wants to eat

[devout vault]

More like how much mischief he wants to cause

[cinder karma]

Lol

[supple ether]

TIL cil has an opcode for tail calls

[safe dragon]

funky

I assume cause of F#

[supple ether]

yes

I don't think there's any c# code that will actually generate them

[safe dragon]

could try writing some recursive function that's very obviously suited for tail call optimization...

see if uses it for C#

[devout vault]

What are tail calls again?

There may be some IL crimes in my near future

[supple ether]

If a recursive call is the return value for a method, a compiler can convert it to a loop and eliminate the recursion

In cil, the tail opcode must appear directly before one of the calling opcodes, which in turn must be followed by a ret.

[rain apex]

why would it need special opcode if compiler is just gonna turn it into loop

[supple ether]

Sometimes it is compiled into aflat loop but the tail opcode doesn't rewrite it

What it does is cause the stack frame to be dropped before the method call

Or something like that

Basically it takes the method call out of the method before calling so it's not building up the stack

Which I guess logistically is kind of like having a loop but not exactly since you can have arbitrary branching and there's not really any state

[devout vault]

I’m not sure if dependency walker just murdered my computers responsiveness, or if it just decided to not cooperate anymore

...given that it fixed itself after I finally managed to kill the process, I'm going to assume the former

[regal ingot]

Tail calls are not really related to recursion (except insofar as a language/runtime that properly handles tail calls will run tail-recusive algorithms without growing the stack). The explanation is exactly right, though: if the only thing that happens after a function call is to return the value from that function then there is no reason for the called function to return to the current function (i.e. stack frame) at all, just have the called function return directly to the current function's caller. I assume CIL requires that there be a ret after the call for the cases in which tail is ignored (e.g., because of security checks, switching between safe and unsage code, or whatever).

[safe dragon]

it's related to recursion in the sense that languages that heavily rely on recursion (pure functional programming languages) will pretty much guaranteed implement tail call optimization

[dusty pollen]

oh is today a spam wave day

this channel got marked unread like three times already

[safe dragon]

idk I've been doing paperwork

[devout vault]

Why does everything C# interop hate me, specifically

(Please ignore that both things I've done recently on that front do weird things with function pointers, which is also where the problem is occuring)

[safe dragon]

I too blame a personal vendetta against you

[dusty pollen]

I think it starts with you trying to do C# interop

[cinder karma]

But whatever it is it'll be super cool!!!!

[devout vault]

That doesn't look like 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF to me

I don't know much about intel assembly, but I'm pretty sure that's not 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF either

(oops, pasted image twice)

[devout vault]

👀 (It's still crashing at that spot, I just... conveniently skipped it for now)

[steel kraken]

I forgot how much I hate the >> and << operators in C++

[devout vault]

Yeah it's... bizarre

I was too lazy to do the include for std::print or whatever the new version is

(And also look up how to use it since it didn't exist last time I seriously used C++)

[steel kraken]

cout does have a write method on it for writing a block of unformatted characters into it

[devout vault]

I know

But like

[steel kraken]

theres also print/println which are non-member functions or whatever that means in C++23

[devout vault]

If I need non-strings... I'll prefer the << over that

[devout vault]

Like, I said I was too lazy 😛

[steel kraken]

the one and hopefully only time I've touched C++ was gated to C++11 I think?
I dont think we were using the original C++98 but the teacher was an old fart and didn't like new things

[devout vault]

C++11 came out (and started being usable) back when I was still using it. But not C++14

[steel kraken]

it was 2019 I think

[devout vault]

"std::print isn't that new" you might be saying

Well uh

(cppreference.com)

Baffles me how something so basic took until C++23

[steel kraken]

printf is much older I think but requires null terminated strings or something

[devout vault]

Yeah, and no type safety because it's the C variadic stuff

But like, I made a version in C++11

I mean technically you could do it pre-C++11, you'd just have to make an overload for each count of substitution argument count manually

Man I sure have been breaking VS a lot lately

Not just with interop stuff

It's been struggling while doing 3d mod, too

[steel kraken]

looks like std::print was C++23 because it needed C++20 to add the text formatting library <format>

[devout vault]

1. why did that take until C++20
2. why couldn't they come out at the same time

It's just... ugh

There's a reason C# has usurped it as my favorite language, even if there's thing I like from C++ (such as template parameter values, while generics can only take types)

[devout vault]

The solution to this?

Cast the function pointer in C++

[steel kraken]

https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2019/p0645r10.html is the text formatting

https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2022/p2093r14.html is std::print

[devout vault]

Seriously

[steel kraken]

but also I think its also just a case of C++ is design by committee and kitchen-sink, while .NET has much more of a someone at the drivers seat

[devout vault]

Don't care, still lame and cumbersome for the end user

[safe dragon]

guess Microsoft bureaucracy has no idea what they're even doing in there with C# so they just let it happen...

[steel kraken]

and when .NET wants to add something they add it to their toolchain at the same time
while C++ has like 9 compilers in market with inconsistent support for new stuff

[safe dragon]

Just be like Javascript and just push the change and then hope everyone implements it

[devout vault]

I mean

[safe dragon]

🙏

[devout vault]

Compiler extensions are very much a thing in C++

[steel kraken]

JS has similar problems to C++ in that sense, though modern JS does try to avoid "fully" releasing things until they have multiple vendors already implement it first

[devout vault]

Like, in college, they had to tell students to compile their homework on the linux server before submitting because that's where it'd be graded, and most people would use visual C++

[safe dragon]

C++ has the advantage that none of their implementations are safari

[steel kraken]

Apple Clang is one of the columns on the cppreference tables

I don't actually know what is driving modern .NET development in MS as less and less of MS actually uses it.
more of their UI facing stuff is becoming electron or react native

though perhaps it still has a thriving space in their server and azure space

[safe dragon]

well at least my impression is that a very significant portion of performance work they do is focused on ASP.NET Core

the server side

[steel kraken]

and yarp is on top of asp.net core which I think is used to power some of the azure load balancers now

[safe dragon]

it's the only framework they have that people actually like and that does well in surveys

[steel kraken]

EFCore was also well looked after when I still did C# on servers

[safe dragon]

oh yeah it is

it's kinda part of the package

I mean I don't use it

but I have in the past

[steel kraken]

the main thing for both EFCore and ASP.NET Core was that jumping from the .NET Framework versions to the .NET Core / 5+ versions sucked

as both were greenfields rewrites when going to .NET Core with originally no usecase for migrations

[safe dragon]

efcore and asp.net core did get a lot better from that transition

but yeah

[steel kraken]

it was good for long term health, but made .NET 5 very awkward

[safe dragon]

much like many other Microsoft frameworks you were kinda just left to rot in the old .net framework versions

[steel kraken]

when core and framework were parallel streams it was mostly fine, and then it stopped being parallell

[safe dragon]

many projects at my old job simply will never make that switch

they can't

there is no ASP.NET Web Forms for Core

thank god really

[steel kraken]

our asp.net + ef6 was also OData 3, which made the .NET 5/.NET 6 migration more fun

as we had to do our own translation layer to make existing OData3 queries still work from breaking changes in OData4 or 5+

[safe dragon]

thankfully we were so late with building a web api that it wast started in .net core 2.1

😌

[steel kraken]

OData + Entity Framework is fun though

[safe dragon]

I'm sure it could be nice

[steel kraken]

as they both speak IQueryable we could do all the DB operations we wanted and returned a IQueryable at the asp.net (core) layer and then OData would apply the query constraints onto it further, and only then does the DB query actually evaluate

[safe dragon]

for an internal private api that can be great

I know OData used to be really common

not entirely sure what happened

[steel kraken]

Yes.. internal private.. sure
https://dev.telstra.com/apis/track-and-monitor-api/Endpoints#tag/Location-History/operation/Device_LocationHistory_GetItems

we were using it for external public apis

[safe dragon]

these days if you're building a REST API you're probably going the OpenAPI v2 or v3 route

[steel kraken]

OpenAPI v2/v3 just describes an api surface, it isn't a system like OData

and ODAta can be notated in OpenAPIv2/v3 fine

[safe dragon]

o

shows what I know about odata

all I really know and how to recognize it is weird random dollar signs in front of query parameters

[steel kraken]

a full OData implementation can approach GraphQL just in a more RESTy appearance

we didnt do a full OData implementation and only used its query functionality

[safe dragon]

my last job had some horrendous custom thing that would've probably benefited from just using OData or GraphQL or something

[steel kraken]

Full OData wants to own your data model and most of your routing as well, but we didn't do that

[safe dragon]

not so much my current job since a lot of the logic already exists in the database and the api isn't a whole lot more than just passing through the output of the sprocs it calls

OK there's a fair bit of cleanup and niceties done as well

[steel kraken]

We also had automapper or something in the middle between odata and efcore as we were stubborn and wanted isolated data models for the api surface and database, even if those models were 99% the same

[safe dragon]

automapper seems to have found their way into everything

[steel kraken]

and it also could speak IQueryable so watching it also do those translations in expression land and end up in the SQL query was cool

[safe dragon]

yeah though automapper has a fair bit of memory and performance overhead which is no longer really necessary nowadays with source generated alternatives

some of which also do the iqueryable thing

EF Core at my old job was an odd beast to tame sometimes

[steel kraken]

I gained a lot of respect for LINQ Expressions seeing everything get baked into it and then compile into a SQL query, but did have to treat the IQueryable like scrondingers cat or some other quantum analogy, as once its observed it will be forced to collapse the expressions into a database query and become data

[safe dragon]

I forget exactly what it was but we had some issue where after an EF Core update our performance had completely plummeted cause they had made some change that made it try some new "optimization" that fucked everything up for us

we had some janky ass hack we suddenly needed all over the place to work around that

[steel kraken]

in EFCcore 7 or 8 I think, they made an optimization that broke if you had SQL stored procs running prefix/postfix operations or whatever the terms were

so for queries touching tables with them you needed to opt out of the behaviour

[safe dragon]

🙏

hmmm

wonder if that might happen at my old job

oh well that's their problem

[steel kraken]

my memory is hazy on it because I stopped doing work on it back in early 2023, but that specific issue was front of mind as Azure SQL database mirroring used it heavily, and as part of our migration from EF6 to EFCore we had to use one or two of them to fix our spatial types.
EF6 could cheat and use the native types from SQLServer fine as its a windows dll
but EFCore being cross platform cant

[safe dragon]

rn since most of what I do is just calling sprocs I opted to forego EFCore entirely and just write my own optimized logic on top of Oracle's ODP.NET

I maybe went a little overboard optimizing it

but it works very well

was fun

most of that code isn't really oracle related and could be used again if we ever escape oracle db

thankfully

[steel kraken]

one of the things I loved about EFCore was for the most part was decoupled from the actual database under the hood

as our unit tests ran against an in memory SQLite which did 95% of what we needed much much much faster

back in EF6 it was some other in memory database thing, which was slow as shit for inserts.
which is how our EFCore migration made our unit tests go from taking 4 hours to 20min

found the breaking change, was EF7 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/ef/core/what-is-new/ef-core-7.0/breaking-changes?tabs=v7#sqlserver-tables-with-triggers
was triggers I was thinking of, but also computed columns

I dont think the team survived long enough to actually do that version bump to 7/8 to need to care about it

[safe dragon]

kinda like OracleBulkCopy which also doesn't work on tables with triggers

[devout vault]

Ominous message to see without the context

(missing the very important "If you do not" from the previous line)

[safe dragon]

please do not use the software

I get paid to write it not to promote its use

[dusty pollen]

the holy grail

[cinder karma]

Does your desk at work

1. Have nothing on it but a keyboard
2. Look like the paperwork tornado hit it

[regal ingot]

back when I actually went to an office my desk had some trinkets but no paper

[sand frost]

i also have the computer and monitor for the keyboard

and my tea and beverage cup and a small pile of forks (best...not to ask) and i think a pad of paper?

[cinder karma]

My desk looks like the paperwork tornado hit

Waveforms everywhere

[devout vault]

Well, s/at work//: it would be 2, but it's 1 because I live with a cat

(well, also mouse/headphones/controller, and some larger things like an air filter. But nothing 'transient')

[prisma flume]

my desk is like a weird museum exhibit. dried flowers, preserved plants, moss behind glass, collections of seeds and pods, imitation roses, mandatory rubber duck,

so a tornado but without the paperwork

[safe dragon]

I have a random empty cookie tin on my desk and it's been there for months now

[cinder karma]

It's full of sewing supplies right

[safe dragon]

I don't think that's what empty means

[devout vault]

Sounds more like the gift shop for a botanical garden rather than a museum

[cinder karma]

Cookie tins spawn sewing supplies

That's what life has taught me

I want to see the blueberry desk

[safe dragon]

I think they only spawn sewing supplies if you sew

[cinder karma]

Git gud

[devout vault]

The C# docs on MS.com are loading incredibly slowly today and I am suffering because of it

"How slow could it be that it's causing suffering?"
It took 2.14 minutes to load System.StringSplitOptions just now, according to the firefox console.

(And other pages have been doing that for me too throughout today)

[safe dragon]

not ideal

probably has something to do with aws going down again

ironically

[devout vault]

It did seem like got stuck on a few azure things

[safe dragon]

oh azure went down too

not just aws

exciting times

[cinder karma]

Just memorize the entire c# language

[marble jewel]

I've noticed Azure DevOps being a bit sluggish today

[safe dragon]

tbh I have StringSplitOptions pretty well memorized at this point

[devout vault]

This might be my first or second time using it, ever

[cinder karma]

Tbh so do i but also poor Casey has to care very much about when things were first introduced to dotnet

Like stringsplitoptions.trim is shockingly late iirc

[devout vault]

Like I knew what the options were, but not the precise naming (and free linqpad doesn't have autocomplete)

[devout vault]

True 😔 thankfully this is linqpad stuff

Earlier I was trying to look up xml loading stuff which I definitely didn't have memorized

Ended up just looking for stack overflow examples instead

Being able to use ReadOnlySpan for string stuff would've saved me a lot of pain in the past week or two (rather than having to pass around a bunch of start-index/length stuff too)

...why can I not do readonly int[] blah = [];

(Net 9 right now, linqpad still)

[safe dragon]

that should definitely be possible

[tranquil grove]

yep, ".net core 1.0 except for TrimEntries which is .net 5"

[cinder karma]

I remember this bullshit because of Android

[tranquil grove]

also this is how I learn google formally stopped caching sites & it's all on archive.org now
I thought they were just blacklisting more sites

[cinder karma]

You're in a method

[devout vault]

Yeah I miss the caching

[devout vault]

Yes, I am

As was my original use

Tangentially related. Why is this still not valid in the Version of Our Yoba .Net 9.0

[tranquil grove]

clearly arrays are outdated and we should always use lists

unless they're pushing that [.. ] type syntax for arrays too? I haven't used it but VS seems to want to

[cinder karma]

They are even though the codegen is messy

[cinder karma]

Is readonly valid in a method?

I'm in godbolt but even readonly int fails

Also tried const int[]

[devout vault]

Well, just from a "not concerned about implementation of the bytecode" standpoint, it seems odd it doesn't work in a method

[tranquil grove]

seems like they just consistently think it's not worth the trouble to implement
https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/issues/188

[safe dragon]

you can use the readonly keyword in a method?

[tranquil grove]

you can use it on a method to guarantee it doesn't edit the instance state, but not in one, afaik

[devout vault]

(s u f f e r i n g ™)

(looking up range indexes)

[tranquil grove]

one whole C# page loaded for me so far, so it's technically up

[devout vault]

(It'll literally be faster to just do str.Substring(0, str.Length - 4) rather than try to figure out the fancy ^4 type syntax)

Okay apparently it's just [0..^4].

I was gonna say "which feels really weird since C# doesn't let you do arbitrary parameter count subscript operator overloads"... but apparently it does

(ie. this compiles fine, which I did not expect)

someclass c = new();
int x = c[ 2, 4 ];
class someclass
{
    public int this[ int a, int b ]
    {
        get => a + b;
    }
}

Ah, I got it confused with C++ which doesn't allow that

[safe dragon]

Substring instead of AsSpan in 2025

[devout vault]

I mean:

• I'm writing this as a one-off conversion script that doesn't need to process that much
• If I were doing it in a full program, I probably couldn't use ROS stuff (unless it was for a standalone game project of my own)

[safe dragon]

hyper optimize ur one-off script

[devout vault]

The #1 reason I've never learned ROS is because I've been unable to use it most of the time

[safe dragon]

I don't even know what that is

ROS

[devout vault]

ReadOnlySpan

[tranquil grove]

read only span, ig

[safe dragon]

oh

yes I use those a lot

[devout vault]

atra used to talk about them often enough I needed a shorthand for it when responding

[tranquil grove]

I keep thinking I should learn them for SDV because atra but haven't gone through the effort

[devout vault]

I mean we literally don't have access to most of the nice parts of it because we're stuck in .net 6

(From what I understand, anyways)

[marble jewel]

Spans are the best thing since sliced bread strings

[tranquil grove]

if I worked with substrings in any mid-play code it'd probably still help, but yeah idk

[devout vault]

Getting dangerously on topic, but the thing they would've been nice for was related to the tokenizable string stuff I mentioned recently in the alpha thread

Since parsing + evaluation got separated (ie. there's now an intermediate parsed version which can be reused)

God I really need a mirror to the C# docs right now

or get linqpad premium but they don't take paypal so I'd have to all the way upstairs and find a payment card

[cinder karma]

Reactive oxygen subspecies

[safe dragon]

y'all in .net 6 land don't have a lot of the niceties for spans

[cinder karma]

(It's okay. I'm free now.)

[devout vault]

And like

If we can declare local functions, why can't we declare local enums

[safe dragon]

cause they can be returned I imagine

[dusty pollen]

can't functions also be returned

hmm but I guess they still have a defined type

[safe dragon]

yeah

type resolution on the calling method would get messy

[devout vault]

Then perhaps just not allow returning it? 😛

[safe dragon]

definitely an alternative

[devout vault]

Also, what do you mean that XmlSerializer can't serialize a dictionary because it implements IDictionary

[cinder karma]

(I suspect it's because you can't define types in methods iirc)

Trust me I've wanted static locals too

[devout vault]

...god, xmlserializer just sucks, doesn't it

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<ArrayOfKeyValuePairOfStringScheduleData xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" />

[lethal walrus]

wow they're using spoiler abuse now

[devout vault]

It looks like an empty message to me

[lethal walrus]

its not

copy the text

[devout vault]

...huh

But like

If nobody can see it, what's the point

[lethal walrus]

they dont expect to not be allowed to embed things

[tranquil grove]

maybe we'll feel extra clever and redeem the fake scam-money

[safe dragon]

money? where money I like money

[dark veldt]

💰

[tranquil grove]

a million ||||____ followed by imgur links to the usual stuff

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6716 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1433200990617862295)

[devout vault]

Ah, that explains it

[prisma flume]

it's a museum by virtue of my having pilfered curated all these interesting seeds

[devout vault]

pilfered curated
<insert joke about the british museums>

[prisma flume]

predictable

[devout vault]

Sometimes jokes are fun because they are predictable

[prisma flume]

i'm unfamiliar with this concept

on that note i'd like to wish all the programmers in chat a happy national cat day and national hermit day. what a perfect pair

[cinder karma]

As the resident grass toucher and dog person....

[devout vault]

This is all I need for touching grass.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3105020/Touch_Grass_VR_Simulator/

Steam

Touch Grass VR Simulator

Welcome to Touch Grass VR Simulator, the most advanced grass touching simulator ever developed. Tired of sunlight, insects, and social expectations? Experience nature the way it was never meant to be, virtually! Why suffer through pollen, sunburn, and awkward small talk with joggers when you can immerse yourself in perfectly curated artificial…

Price

$2.99

▶ Play video

[heavy dagger]

Title result: Touch Grass VR Simulator on Steam

[cinder karma]

Awkward small talk with joggers

All we do is the respectful wave then go back to headbanging to our music

Sometimes when I'm tired I won't even do that

[worn remnant]

i don't bring music when i run, but hard agree on "respectful wave, then go away please"

[devout vault]

These things are really important, you know?

[cinder karma]

Fun is encountering people on horses

[cinder karma]

I missed the good joke opportunity

Casey doesnt like ROS (reactive oxygen species) because they lead to....rust!

.... I'll see myself out

[devout vault]

(I kinda had a similar thought back when you mentioned it 😛 )

(Despite not knowing precisely what that was, simply based on "oxygen" and "reactive")

[sand frost]

Robot operating system?

[devout vault]

Really Odd Shenanigans

[safe dragon]

ROSs

[devout vault]

Weird quirks of linqpad:

• Closing the only query that is open immediately open a new one and increments the counter.
• Apparently the clicks are queued, and it seems like the close actions fully happens on the main thread (and is slow for some reason), so if you click faster than it closes them, it'll keep closing new ones even after you move your mouse off the button.

[devout vault]

Why is windows saying 14 GB of RAM is used when there's not a single process with more than 300 MB used (and only like 5 above 100 MB)

What are you hiding windows

[safe dragon]

it's a mystery sometimes honestly

windows seems a little too excited to reserve memory for things it does not want to tell you about

[devout vault]

People think Cloud RAM is a joke, but little do they know Big Tech is using some of your RAM on every single windows 11 install

[safe dragon]

at this point honestly who knows

it makes no financial sense but none of Big Tech does anymore

[cinder karma]

Every day I check the stock market and wonder how the fuck it is up

[safe dragon]

it's like using an electric pump to inflate your air mattress but you just keep it on and see when it bursts

[fleet wren]

it's simple; company A signed a $100M deal to use company B's AI model, and company B signed a $100M deal to use company A's cloud services
that mean the market's up by $200M, wowee!

why is milk so expensive

[devout vault]

I would say "are you asking for AI generated milk", but that'd probably be even more expensive, so...

[safe dragon]

with a few extra steps and loops that's pretty much the truth

bunch of companies funding each other with methaphorical promise money none of them actually have

[cinder karma]

Is milk expensive?

(I dont drink milk so.)

[devout vault]

Disappointed in yall. No mention of “what about switching to Linux” yet

[fleet wren]

a true tuxer need not mention linux by themself, but by mere presence alone let linux be mentioned

[cinder karma]

Did you actually start a timer

[devout vault]

Yes

[cinder karma]

Anyways if you switched to rust none of this would happen

[fleet wren]

rust mentioned

[cinder karma]

Also how is your leechblock timer going

Cuda cuda cuda cuda.....

[safe dragon]

I did have btop open to see my ram usage on Linux when you said that fwiw

[cinder karma]

One day I'll have the time to play with cuda cuda spice seems not unreasonable

[devout vault]

Anyways, how about another one of this channel's favorite topics?

So, I'm pondering a new laptop, and I want it to either have the keyboard detachable, or be able to fold it behind it so only the monitor is visible (because I'll always have an external keybaord attached).

Can a framework laptop do either of those?

[devout vault]

smh how forgetful of you

[safe dragon]

I think the framework 12 does that?

[ivory shadow]

Err, I think a framework 12 can fold far enough to get the keyboard out of the way yeah.

[cinder karma]

Morning khloe!

What framework is nice today

[devout vault]

Does 12 mean it's old compared to a 16

Or is it just screen size

[ivory shadow]

Not sure I would recommend that one though. The hardware is not very powerful

[safe dragon]

they show this in their marketing

[ivory shadow]

It's screen size

But it also has a weaker processor

[devout vault]

...ah. Well, I kinda need to compile a big C# sln for this use case (stardew dev work)

[safe dragon]

the 12 is actually the newest of them all

[devout vault]

I thought with framework it was pretty modular - can you not choose a better CPU and RAM and such for it?

[ivory shadow]

I mean it may be enough for you, but you should definitely look into that aspect before purchasing

[safe dragon]

good luck finding the 2-in-1 laptop of ur dreams

[cinder karma]

Heat management also maybe an issue

[ivory shadow]

They only really offer one CPU got the 12.

[cinder karma]

I'm a huge fan of not using a laptop, says person who has not bought themselves a computer yet

[devout vault]

The page shows two

[ivory shadow]

Morning Atra

[devout vault]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to nkow how good/bad those are these day though

[cinder karma]

I would say i5 is meh

[devout vault]

Well, I'm not sure I want to buy a full second desktop

[ivory shadow]

The i3 is not even a consideration to me.

They are pitiful

[cinder karma]

Work from steam deck clearly

[devout vault]

Sure, I probably won't be moving it around much... but that's not guaranteed

[cinder karma]

How is the intel via issue?

[devout vault]

I mean it crossed my mind, alongside an external monitor or two while docked. But I'm concerned about peformance for that too

[ivory shadow]

Clearly you need to buy a framework desktop /s

[cinder karma]

Isn't that just a desktop

Like actually

[ivory shadow]

Yes

[devout vault]

I thought the Opinion™ on the framework desktop is that it kinda sucked

[cinder karma]

Also

DKRed | DigiKey https://share.google/n1wcCOJShIGzFFItS

This is pretty meh but

For all yall who want pcbs

[ivory shadow]

Oh the hardware is very impressive but it's meh from a "you can already have a modular desktop, more modular than this" perspective

[devout vault]

How does that compare to the company sponsoring every person doing hardware videos I watch, PCBway

[ivory shadow]

The ram is soldered for AMD reasons

[devout vault]

Ah. Yeah, at that point, why go framework

[fleet wren]

it is smol I suppose

[devout vault]

I also don't want to build my own though

[cinder karma]

PCBway is legitimately better in every metric tbh other than perhaps speed

[devout vault]

Because lazy

[fleet wren]

my hot take is that the effort required for pc building is overrated

it's basically legos

[ivory shadow]

Well the framework desktop is hella fast if you're just looking for something you can buy that works

[devout vault]

You underestimate my laziness

[ivory shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-starwars-underestimate-gif-7915876

[devout vault]

How cost effective is it compared to other prebuilts? (I may get paid well, but I have debt and stuff to pay off + need to get a car and health insurance and stuff)

[devout vault]

me in college everytime someone said there's no way you can postpone that writing assignment until late the night before the due date and still get a good grade

[safe dragon]

short term it's definitely not cost effective. The theory would be that you only replace parts as you need to instead of a whole new device so eventually it's worth it...

[fleet wren]

it seems alright
I'd probably trust them much more than say freaking alienware

low bar i know

[devout vault]

There's also the "if I'm gonna get a framework, why would get a boring computer and miss out on the novelty of their laptops"

[ivory shadow]

I feel like that answer depends on how much raw CPU power you want. Because it's like Apple expensive for a CPU you can't really get from a normal pre built. And the small size is a perk, potentially

[devout vault]

Hmm, definitely don't want huge, but I don't need microscopic either

[cinder karma]

I've been considering doing a build myself

After being...influenced

[devout vault]

This is the desk I’d be taking over

[safe dragon]

to me a framework 13 is quite small but I carried around a 17 inch msi gaming laptop for 10 years

[cinder karma]

And finding a subreddit for cheap hardware

[ivory shadow]

If I was getting a framework I would definitely just get a laptop though.

[cinder karma]

Realistically...the hope is cuda spice

[ivory shadow]

Like. It's going to be expensive either way, and the laptops are portable

[devout vault]

I guess another option is, if the laptop can run while closed, I could just have it closed and vertical behind external monitors

[safe dragon]

that little tray with little packets makes me think you live in a hotel room but I've never seen a hotel room with a pressure cooker

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, I was just typing that. If you have an external monitor anyways, you can run it closed

[devout vault]

I don't think the pressure cooker has been used since I moved back in at least

[devout vault]

I mean, I'm definitely getting at least one, because the productivity jump from one monitor to two is just insane

(Right now I'm borrowing my mom's portable monitor)

[ivory shadow]

The Framework 16 at least can be stood nearly vertically with the screen all the way open too

[devout vault]

Wouldn't the keyboard still be in the way?

I use an external keyboard

[ivory shadow]

So you could just stand it up leaning back slightly and it's like a very tall monitor

[devout vault]

The way things are looking with my current setup, there would barely be enough room with it, and it'd be cramped

[devout vault]

Oh, like put the laptop on its side?

Vertical monitor, ew

What's the difference between the 16's AI 300 series and the 7040 series (besides presumably "optimized for AI")

[ivory shadow]

I mean the hinge opens to 155 degrees, so with it like that the base of the laptop will only eat up several inches of desk space

[devout vault]

And that the AI series is preoder and not out yet

[safe dragon]

but I've had one for months

[ivory shadow]

The AI series is just a better CPU. Newer, faster, better igpu

[devout vault]

Hmm

[ivory shadow]

I assume it's still in batches and not general availability

[safe dragon]

the ryzen ai thingamajig thingy has so far played every game I've tried to play on it (runescape and etrian odyssey 🙏 )

[devout vault]

This current laptop which is working fine for my purposes (besides windows hogging RAM, and somehow 32 GB isn't enough to not need restarting regularly???)

[fleet wren]

I love that it's mostly just a more competent CPU but it has AI tacked onto the name because stock price go up

(well I suppose there's the NPU)

[devout vault]

(I'll probably try out Linux too, if it matters, to see if it's windows hogging RAM, or just modern software in general)

[ivory shadow]

Probably a Nvidia driver bug

[safe dragon]

it's just like the newest oracle database version have ai slapped into the version number

23ai

[devout vault]

This is an intel integrated gpu (as shown in the screenshot)

[devout vault]

wat

[fleet wren]

what a world we live on

[safe dragon]

don't worry they've been doing this for a long time

we had c before this for Cloud

[ivory shadow]

Do I need to point out the entry right under your Intel iGPU...?

[devout vault]

Current CPU is better than the lowest framework 16 one (currently available, not the ai series) 103% vs 83% - according to userbenchmark, anyways

[safe dragon]

apparently they've ai, c for cloud, g for grid and i for internet

[devout vault]

The higher tier cpu is 86%

Given this is a framework laptop... could I just upgrade the CPU later if needed?

[cinder karma]

How long does building stardew take anyways

[safe dragon]

evil userbenchmarks

[devout vault]

Are they bad. Is there a better site

[safe dragon]

oh they're terrible yeah

[devout vault]

Not too long if the content files haven't changed. Could probably be optimized more on the content side because of the workaround I'm using

[ivory shadow]

Yeah. Well, specifically it's replacing the entire main board. You can keep using the same RAM and storage when you do, of course. And that has the perk of leaving you your old mainboard to reuse in some way

[safe dragon]

the tldr is that userbenchmarks hates amd so much that they constantly try to change how their benchmarks work or what's considered important so that intel continues to look better than amd

even intel has told them to stop

[devout vault]

So if I replace the main board, is that naything besides CPU?

oh wow

Is there a better site

[safe dragon]

not a website with an easy simple number to look at I suppose

[devout vault]

[ivory shadow]

CPU and other motherboard stuff like the USB chipset. Just... motherboard stuff

[devout vault]

(One day I'm gonna accidentally use instead of that emote, since this one shows up first in the list for :waa)

[cinder karma]

Anyways

[safe dragon]

I believe right now a pretty major factor of the cpu scoring on userbenchmarks is just... the age of the cpu

[ivory shadow]

[safe dragon]

if it's newer it scores better

[cinder karma]

Currently using 32 GB out of 50GB 😛

[devout vault]

(It's from a smash brothers brawl modding server. Which bought into the "why wasn't waluigi invited" memes, as one might expect if one is familiar with the smash community)

[safe dragon]

I'm using 6GB of 32 GB with most of the usage being runescape, firefox and discord

[devout vault]

so nothing important, got it

[devout vault]

Like I mentioned earlier, I was using 14 GB after closing all my programs and killing a few processes (like a lingering VS one used for compilation optimizations)

Insanity

[devout vault]

I did see that one factor was market share, which definitely made me question it a little

[fleet wren]

one of my favorite pastime was to compare the reviews of 2 same gen CPUs with mostly equivalent specs, one from Intel and one from AMD, and see the amount of cattle manure the owner pulls out of their ass to justify why the former's 10 core 5GHz is vastly superior than the latter's 10 core 5GHz

[safe dragon]

alas efficient cores and performance cores have made comparing core count useless

[devout vault]

cpubenchmark.net shows the framework one being substantially better for multithreading, and slightly better for singlethreading

Are they more trustworthy or do they just adjust in the opposite direction too much

[safe dragon]

I have no idea

they're like ending up gsmarena

idk what they're doing idk if any of it is even true

[devout vault]

What GPU does it have without this?

Does the CPU have an integrated one?

[safe dragon]

yeah

it's good enough to play runescape

which is all one needs

[devout vault]

And runescape is definitely more graphically intense than stardew, since it's 3d

(I'm not actually sure if I'm being serious or sarcastic)

(I also assume you mean classic runescape)

[safe dragon]

you are right

well no cause classic runescape is actually the name for another version of runescape that was discontinued

but yeah oldschool runescape is definitely more graphically intense than stardew valley

[ivory shadow]

I play Forza Horizon 4 on my 16's iGPU. It's very competent.

And I don't even have the AI CPU

[safe dragon]

the laptop also played silksong and etrian odyssey fine

I have the 13

with the ai chip

[ivory shadow]

The performance destroys what I get from my Steam Deck

And it should. It's a newer version of that GPU with a higher power limit

[safe dragon]

time for steam deck 2

[ivory shadow]

I bet a Steam Deck 3 would be amazing. Alas

[fleet wren]

it'll just be Steam Machine 2

[safe dragon]

that can't happen I'm afraid

[fleet wren]

Steam Machine 2 truthers rise up

I literally do not need nor will buy it but still

[devout vault]

...the expansion cards are so cheap, that makes them so tempting

[safe dragon]

😌

[devout vault]

(My vote for new valve hardware is still the VR headset)

[cinder karma]

So a steam turbine

I want a steam turbine