#programmers-off-topic | Stardew Valley | Page 98

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:06 PM

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I've seen a lot of people like that one and JetBrains

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:06 PM

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I did use jetbrainsmono for quite a while

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:07 PM

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I need to do a side-by-side comparison at some point. I've never really taken the time to appreciate the differences.

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:08 PM

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sidenote. I can't believe that helix comes with all these fonts built in and then the one they pick as their default is just this entirely purple thing

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there's almost no syntax highlighting

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do they genuinely like this

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:09 PM

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Maybe that's Zen

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I'm not the type to do distraction free coding, it makes my IDE feel naked

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:10 PM

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even if you go with purple and stick to themes that ship with helix I'd say boo_berry is just a better version of it

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:11 PM

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I mean there's still enough contrast that it gives your eyes things to focus on

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It's not worse than no syntax highlighting

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:12 PM

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I'm definitely not a zen mode user in vscode either

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I'd say I use stuff like helix despite their minimal interface not because of it

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I mean when I used neovim I use like... preconfigured ones like LunarVim that just cram it full of stuff including an entire debugging UI you can open

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:13 PM

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I do find tabs and the file pane to be useful enough to keep around all the time as opposed to summoning it on demand

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Screen real estate purists need to see all of their code from top to bottom on their ultra-tall monitors /j

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:15 PM

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I thought I'd miss tabs in helix but it really hasn't been bad

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all the different navigation options ultimately replaced the need for it with something better

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tbh even in visual studio I tend to just Ctrl + T and go somewhere instead of clicking on a tab even if it is right there

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:17 PM

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I haven't quite gotten accustomed to using sessions/tabs in Zellij, but I could probably manage most of what I need using multiple instances of apps and Zellij

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:17 PM

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zellij is neat

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I see no need to use it within an editor since they have their own pane splitting and the likes and Id really rather not run multiple copies of the same LSP

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:18 PM

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My thought is, if I'm going to deal with tabs and such, it might be nice to have one universal way of handling them all rather than different tools implementing their own method

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:18 PM

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someone I introduced to zellij seems to have since become a big user of it with a ton of automation scripts and shit

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:19 PM

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But it's just a thought, I haven't actually tried building the muscle memory to do that in practice

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:19 PM

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I'm happy enough I got used to vim/helix style keybinds eventually

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aquova was there for all 4 or 5 attempts at me trying to get into it

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hc_pensive

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I gave up multiple times

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eventually the trick was just to learn the keybinds from the vscode extension and ignore actual vim/neovim because that was just too much extra to have to learn

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:21 PM

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Neovim for VSCode was my gateway into vim keybindings

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:22 PM

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🙏

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now I use helix and the vim keybinds in visual studio

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having to juggle two similar but distinctly different systems

marble jewel Oct 8, 2025, 9:24 PM

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The one downside of using the less popular option of the two

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I tried the helix extension for VSCode, and it's not at all as functional as the Neovim extension

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:24 PM

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even the VsVim plugin is barely maintained

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I could never hope for a Helix plugin

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for visual studio

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I know there's some jank vim config someone made to try and make VsVim act like helix but honestly I think I'm better off not touching that

supple ether Oct 8, 2025, 9:33 PM

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safe dragon do they genuinely like this

that's a nice shade of purple but needs less blue and more syntax variation

devout vault Oct 8, 2025, 9:45 PM

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fleet wren Oct 8, 2025, 9:55 PM

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~~how dare u~~

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 9:56 PM

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god damn it

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I was confused how a molecule that just doesn't make actual physical sense was enough to post here

devout vault Oct 8, 2025, 9:58 PM

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I don’t know enough about molecules/chemistry to understand why it isn’t physically reasonable (and I don’t care enough to try and understand)

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:01 PM

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hmmm I mean I guess maybe it is possible and I'm just stupid and didn't consider that the hydrogen bonds were just omitted

devout vault Oct 8, 2025, 10:02 PM

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I mean I know basically nothing about chemistry

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The fact that you even used the words “hydrogen bonds” means you’re much more likely to be correct than my assumptions

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:03 PM

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I have google and verified that I am in fact wrong

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though you'd normally represent the tails as CH3 and CH2 and not omit there it seems

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apparently drawing it like this is called a skeletal structure while neatly writing out all the atoms is the Lewis-type structure

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I guess it's a lot cleaner that way...

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hc_pensive

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:07 PM

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safe dragon hmmm I mean I guess maybe it is possible and I'm just stupid and didn't consider...

(Yes in organic chemistry the hydrogens are sometimes omitted)

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I dont see how that is cursed

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That molecule

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:08 PM

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(it's loss)

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:08 PM

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16 year old me could also like

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Give you the proper name for it

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But foof is cursed

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Lialh is cursee

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My foot is cursed

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Morning, y'all!

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:09 PM

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this one's cursedness has absolutely nothing to do with chemistry

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:10 PM

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I'm too dumb to get it

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:10 PM

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it's just loss

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:10 PM

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I'll continue to be dumb and just spend my time pointlessly lifting weights

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Smh.

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:10 PM

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this

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:10 PM

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Oh

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Modern art or video games

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:11 PM

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it's uh

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:11 PM

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Tbh our digital chips might make fun video game levels for jump man or whatever

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:11 PM

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a minimal representation of a comic (called loss) someone made that for some reason turned into a challenge on how to represent loss in just about any possible context imaginable that's been going on for I imagine like a decade at this point

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:11 PM

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Anyways I'm starving and need more coffee

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God I'm so exhausted already

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:12 PM

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I'm about to go to bed

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I find it quite impressive how you even ended up in this server while knowing very little about anything internet

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:13 PM

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safe dragon a minimal representation of a comic (called loss) someone made that for some rea...

I'm so old

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I came into this server many years ago to report a bug to Pathos and unfortunately I've continued to be annoying

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Tbh

devout vault Oct 8, 2025, 10:24 PM

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.s/annoying//

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:24 PM

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Unfortunately I've continued to be?

safe dragon Oct 8, 2025, 10:28 PM

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very brutal

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:31 PM

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Oh i joined discord also because my second favorite Twitter group migrated to discord

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I proceeded to say so little I think most have forgotten who I was on Twitter tbh

devout vault Oct 8, 2025, 10:36 PM

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cinder karma Unfortunately I've continued to be?

Oops

s/un//
s/annoying/amazing/

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:36 PM

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Apparently duolingo is doing a promotion where if you gift a subscription on twitch you get 3 free months of duolingo

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I dont know if my favorite twitch streamer is still monetized

devout vault Oct 8, 2025, 10:43 PM

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Does atra watch nefarious twitch streamers? SDVpuffergasp

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 10:55 PM

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No. Just ones that, because he has a day job, can't stream often enough to make twitch happy

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He also streams PowerPoint

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 11:12 PM

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Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride | Science | AAAS https://share.google/jmJF8BId3scZ9q6gV

sand frost Oct 8, 2025, 11:23 PM

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that one is FOOF, right?

cinder karma Oct 8, 2025, 11:35 PM

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Favorite chemical of all time

terse galleon Oct 8, 2025, 11:44 PM

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my DM used FOOF in one of our tabletop campaigns!

worn remnant Oct 9, 2025, 12:57 AM

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cinder karma Favorite chemical of all time

FOOF is a banger for sure

lucid sundial Oct 9, 2025, 2:02 AM

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safe dragon I guess it's a lot cleaner that way...

I opened up this chat to this, this is giving me science PTSD

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Please spoiler it 🙁

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(jk no need lol)

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never been good at science

dusty pollen Oct 9, 2025, 4:27 AM

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I use yadm as my dotfile manager, it's great

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I use iosevka but idk if much thought went into it SDVpuffersquee

crystal wren Oct 9, 2025, 8:06 AM

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Apparently I'm using a weird selection for some reason...

[font]
size = 12.0

[font.bold]
family = "JetBrainsMono NFM"
style = "Bold"

[font.bold_italic]
family = "UbuntuMono Nerd Font"
style = "Bold Italic"

[font.italic]
family = "UbuntuMono Nerd Font"
style = "Italic"

[font.normal]
family = "JetBrainsMono NFM"
style = "Regular"

dusty pollen Oct 9, 2025, 8:12 AM

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the one thing I’m super used to is powerline on my terminal

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I don’t even need most of what it shows. I just like it being there

crystal wren Oct 9, 2025, 8:20 AM

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Okay, everything switched out for Fira, and looking quite nice.

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I did try Iosevka, but it's so narrow it hurts my eyes a little. SDVkrobusgiggle

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 12:29 PM

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cascadia code my beloved

worn remnant Oct 9, 2025, 12:51 PM

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i have been using fantasque sans mono for some time now. i like it.
(i can't use fira. i despise code ligatures)

pliant snow Oct 9, 2025, 12:58 PM

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I love the Hack font, I use it for everything

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I think it's also what Discord uses, maybe

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 1:00 PM

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crystal wren Apparently I'm using a weird selection for some reason... ```toml [font] size =...

Nerd (affectionate)

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I spent ten minutes at work yesterday failing to download a new desktop background tbh

devout vault Oct 9, 2025, 1:03 PM

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Font nerd talk? In my programming off topic channel?

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 1:08 PM

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Given it's your channel do you want to show off the 3d

devout vault Oct 9, 2025, 1:08 PM

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I already have a thread for that 😛

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(and I'm starting work in like 30 seconds)

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(and that's dangerously close to on topic)

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I imagine anyone here who is interested in it would’ve already joined the thread.

Not that I’ll never post about it here (especially if it’s just code being mean to me), but I’ll save it for significant steps

uncut seal Oct 9, 2025, 1:46 PM

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I used to have this on VSC: https://github.com/IdreesInc/Monocraft

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I didn't reinstall it when I changed setup but it was fun for a while

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 3:52 PM

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Ugh, just a move cmd is annoying in cliosoft

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I've been fighting it repeatedly

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What combination of files do i need to check out to move one folder into another should not be a game of guess and check

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 4:29 PM

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"Do I have variadic functions? Variadic macros? Any way to make sure this enum is a defined enum value without typing it out? No?"

devout vault Oct 9, 2025, 6:27 PM

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...why does it matter what's in the file for moving it in source control

fleet wren Oct 9, 2025, 6:30 PM

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is it the git thing where it autodetects whether a file is moved based on its content

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(this is one thing mercurial differs from git, it supports keeping track of explicit file moves)

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 6:34 PM

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from what I vaguely understood googling cliosoft last time it has some system that tries to prevent you from modifying a file someone else is already editing presumably means you can't move anything with files that someone else is already touching according to them?

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idk tho

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I spent no more than 5 minutes

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 7:01 PM

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devout vault ...why does it matter what's in the file for moving it in source control

Two separate things sorry

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The move involved figuring out exactly what I needed to have checked out to do some reorganization

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The second part was me trying to write some code that detected whether or not some number was a valid enum member in systemverilog

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You know

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The shit we use sourcegen for in c#

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And all my search results were getting polluted with c compiler constructs which was making me sad

devout vault Oct 9, 2025, 7:12 PM

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cinder karma The shit we use sourcegen for in c#

Time to write sourcegen for verilog

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~~or just c# with no BCL to verilog~~

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~~or maybe WASM to verilog with c# AOT~~~

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 7:24 PM

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why on earth would you need sourcegen to validate whether a number is a valid enum

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 7:25 PM

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Well first crumble I'm on mars

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 7:26 PM

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don't think I've actually ever used Enum.IsDefined(value) but it's a thing

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 7:26 PM

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cinder karma Well first crumble I'm on mars

bragging

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 7:26 PM

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Anyways

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I'm here to complain again

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Why does Microsoft include a gif insertion tool with a search bar but doesn't include a search bar with the symbol insertion tool

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I'm trying to insert a delta here....

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 7:28 PM

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safe dragon don't think I've actually ever used `Enum.IsDefined(value)` but it's a thing

(It's reflection based and therefore very slow)

devout vault Oct 9, 2025, 7:29 PM

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cinder karma Why does Microsoft include a gif insertion tool with a search bar but doesn't in...

Clearly they expect you to memorize the alt code of what you are searching for

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 7:31 PM

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cinder karma (It's reflection based and therefore very slow)

tbh I can't imagine this one is all that slow

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a lot of reflection is also a lot faster nowadays

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 7:32 PM

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There is a version of the Life of a Showgirl album where Taylor explains each song

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And she is aboit as coherent as my commit messages tbh

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 7:32 PM

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I actually listened to the new album

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it was uh, fine

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my favorite lyrics

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I paused the music to go open the lyrics and screenshot it

cinder karma Oct 9, 2025, 7:38 PM

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My review

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 7:45 PM

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i love it when all 8 of my cores are held at 100% usage and i cant close anything and need to forcibly restart the machine

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at least it rebooted in one go this time (although lock screen still broken??)

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 7:52 PM

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do you mean Blank Space instead of Blank Slate?

lucid sundial Oct 9, 2025, 9:22 PM

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lethal walrus i love it when all 8 of my cores are held at 100% usage and i cant close anythin...

What CPU is this?

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By the way, unless your gaming or doing cpu-intensive tasks, this isnt normal!

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:23 PM

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ryzen 3 3100
oh no i was doing relatively intensive things

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opening a sims 4 save, with vscode & intellij open and 3 browser firefox windows, one youtubing

lucid sundial Oct 9, 2025, 9:25 PM

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lethal walrus opening a sims 4 save, with vscode & intellij open and 3 browser firefox windows...

Ahh okay, that's a 4 core, not 8! It does have 8 threads though : D

That does kinda explain why it goes up to 100% usage, I had to double check online. Yeah with Youtube + VSC and Sims, the CPU isn't really designed for too much multi tasking

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:25 PM

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it's usually fine™

lucid sundial Oct 9, 2025, 9:25 PM

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Still good, though! My laptop has an intel celeron (2 cores, and rant run anything!) 😭

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But my main pc is good, just not my laptop

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It was a chromebook, 100 dolla, took out its parts, burned titan chip, and installed Coreboot (BIOS/Firmware) so I can install a custom OS

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cause I was not going to use ChromeOS for over a year

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Idk just didnt care for it

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my main pc is a lot better than i9 14th gen

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i love it and regret it cause it bankrupted my wallet

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:27 PM

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for someone who spends so much time computering i know shockingly little about hardware's power

lucid sundial Oct 9, 2025, 9:28 PM

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lethal walrus for someone who spends so much time computering i know shockingly little about h...

Oh!

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In simple terms, I took out parts from my chromebook (laptop) cause it wouldnt let me use anything other than the operating system it had, so I fixed it

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:28 PM

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oh no no i know what you mean

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i just mean i couldn't tell you what cpu is better that sort of thing in general

lucid sundial Oct 9, 2025, 9:29 PM

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lethal walrus i just mean i couldn't tell you what cpu is better that sort of thing in general

The i9 14th gen is (pretty much) the best Intel CPU, they did make the Ultra series, but a few are shockingly slower, maybe cause they are still polishing that "AI" aspect of it

24 cores I have and 32 threads

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:29 PM

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very nice

lucid sundial Oct 9, 2025, 9:29 PM

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Do I utilizie it? No

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Do I need it? No

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😭 but it came with pc so its n ice

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ooo switch modder?

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i dont wanna really ask here, but, what do you mean by switch modder?

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:30 PM

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mod on switch

lucid sundial Oct 9, 2025, 9:30 PM

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ooohhh!

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haha

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i get it now

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the Switch has SMAPI mods?

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:32 PM

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nope

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they're xnb mods but the CFW replaces them at runtime so you dont permenantly change things

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(well, it has smapi mods if you install linux/android and run it under that but)

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oooh i never knew i had access to terminal autocompletions this is so cool

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 9:42 PM

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lucid sundial Ahh okay, that's a 4 core, not 8! It does have 8 threads though : D That does k...

~~it is 8 logical cores tho~~

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core count has become such a fuzzy thing with Intel moving to an architecture with performance and efficiency cores

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:43 PM

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i had only core because system monitor calls them cors

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 9:44 PM

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yeah it shows logical cores

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:44 PM

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why is proton there

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 9:44 PM

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uh

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hrm

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:45 PM

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it randomly has some apps

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 9:45 PM

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is it fuzzy matching on some app id or something

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:45 PM

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??

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maybe?

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 9:45 PM

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u need an Amiga emulator

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is this krunner

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:46 PM

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yes

safe dragon Oct 9, 2025, 9:47 PM

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it does definitely fuzzy find on the metadata

lethal walrus Oct 9, 2025, 9:48 PM

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mhm

crystal wren Oct 10, 2025, 6:35 AM

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Doesn't for me, but then I have virtually all of the search plugins disabled because it got so annoying.

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 6:41 AM

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software centre would be the one in question this time

crystal wren Oct 10, 2025, 6:42 AM

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I turned it back on, and yeah, 4000 gets FS-UAE.

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Which makes sense with the Amiga 4000. Probably mentions that in the description?

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 1:07 PM

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guess im not installing blockbench then why is it still like this

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 1:11 PM

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seems like it believes KDE is a conflicting package for blockbench

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so it just wants to remove anything that comes from the KDE package

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🙏

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this is how Linus uninstalled PopOS by installing steam

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 1:13 PM

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yep

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did an upgrade and its still angry :<

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updating from things in discover, it's not asking to remove except ryujinx anything yet

devout vault Oct 10, 2025, 1:19 PM

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Just build from source 😛

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I did that recently, but that's because I had to tweak the gltf exporter

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(It was forcing power-of-2 textures always, even though I thought I disabled that)

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 1:21 PM

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yes, that is a good option

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however i feel as though thats not addressing the problem that my computer wants to forcibly eject KDE

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gfhgfhgfhgfhgh

rain apex Oct 10, 2025, 1:32 PM

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Delet ubuntu

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 1:34 PM

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i mean that's not an awful idea

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 1:36 PM

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Arch?

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I'm considering but ||I dont want to learn a new system no more||

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 1:36 PM

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its package management does seem to work a whole lot better...

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 1:37 PM

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Morning, crumble!

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 1:37 PM

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uh good morning

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my workday has almost ended

steel kraken Oct 10, 2025, 1:50 PM

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If I was going to Linux I would probably arch, but while anti cheat is doing VM detection, I'm sticking to windows as the host os

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As I don't want to abandon games that have it, and don't want to ever actually need to shutdown and reboot into a different partition to play a game and then flip back

crystal wren Oct 10, 2025, 1:57 PM

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That's where I'm incredibly lucky. I play a grand total of zero games that require anti cheat.

devout vault Oct 10, 2025, 1:58 PM

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~~coming soon to an update near you: anticheat, for stardew!~~ (big /s)

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 2:00 PM

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crystal wren That's where I'm incredibly lucky. I play a grand total of zero games that requi...

Same!

crystal wren Oct 10, 2025, 2:01 PM

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But I still play a non-zero amount of games! /lh

crystal wren Oct 10, 2025, 2:01 PM

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devout vault ~~coming soon to an update near you: anticheat, for stardew!~~ (big /s)

🗞️

rain apex Oct 10, 2025, 2:04 PM

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steel kraken If I was going to Linux I would probably arch, but while anti cheat is doing VM ...

What anti cheat games does that include

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 2:04 PM

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devout vault ~~coming soon to an update near you: anticheat, for stardew!~~ (big /s)

I'm gonna assume this means CA will voice his dont use debug commands lines

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Just randomly voice them

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God, DH

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I'm inspired to start an educational YouTube channel but on what

rain apex Oct 10, 2025, 2:07 PM

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Verilog

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 2:08 PM

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Fuck you

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We need a DH YouTube channel just to hear his voice

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😛

sonic mirage Oct 10, 2025, 3:37 PM

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cinder karma I'm inspired to start an educational YouTube channel but on what

Calculating taxes

pliant snow Oct 10, 2025, 3:49 PM

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when the hell did domain names get so expensive

sand frost Oct 10, 2025, 3:51 PM

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are they not like $10 mostly?

devout vault Oct 10, 2025, 3:51 PM

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Let’s just blame it on Web 3.0

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 3:51 PM

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pliant snow when the hell did domain names get so expensive

what are you buying and is it a premium

sand frost Oct 10, 2025, 3:51 PM

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making websites is too easy these days and demand is going up? idk if that's true tho

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 3:51 PM

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non premium, non aftermarket domains are still cheap

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 3:58 PM

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I just paid $40

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For the whole year

pliant snow Oct 10, 2025, 3:58 PM

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they're all super expensive

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I can see some at like "90% off for one year", but after that, all the going prices are at least $20

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 4:05 PM

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.net/com/org are only renew ~$11 per year on some places

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what registrar/tld

pliant snow Oct 10, 2025, 4:18 PM

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namecheap, .xyz

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 4:20 PM

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its on the higher side of .xyz cost

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cloudflare is the cheapest for xyz, at the wholesale 10.18

marble jewel Oct 10, 2025, 4:21 PM

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.xyz has been my domain of choice for all of my latest registrations

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 4:30 PM

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I actually have .com domains

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 4:31 PM

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i also do have a few

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 4:32 PM

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I have no idea what I paid for em

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 4:32 PM

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i got my latest .com for $2 lol

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(spaceship has very good coupon codes)

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 4:34 PM

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I got some from cloudflare

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where do I even find what I pay for a cloudflare domain

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they have not billed me in a very long time as far as I can tell

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there

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 4:36 PM

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that is a good question

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where was it

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 4:36 PM

#

I pay more than that just to take the train to work in the morning

lethal walrus Oct 10, 2025, 4:36 PM

#

oh i got it

#

i kind of did i guess, cost to renew extra

devout vault Oct 10, 2025, 4:58 PM

#

Wow, it's really nice outside today

#

(feels like 66 F)

#

.wolfram 66 F in C

heavy daggerBOT Oct 10, 2025, 4:58 PM

#

18.89 °C (degrees Celsius)

marble jewel Oct 10, 2025, 5:02 PM

#

.wolfram 54 F in C

heavy daggerBOT Oct 10, 2025, 5:02 PM

#

12.22 °C (degrees Celsius)

marble jewel Oct 10, 2025, 5:02 PM

#

I'm cold today

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 5:04 PM

#

The air felt nice and crisp this morning

supple ether Oct 10, 2025, 5:37 PM

#

it's in the 40s here

#

kinda cozy actually

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 6:22 PM

#

Systemverilog function are weird

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 6:38 PM

#

I just learned how the return statement works lol

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 6:40 PM

#

a very funny thing to say

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 6:41 PM

#

Ah. unique and unique0

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 6:41 PM

#

haskell naming vibes

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 6:41 PM

#

A sad recently is that we can't use doxygen with verilog

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 6:45 PM

#

I don't know what that is but rip

#

oh documentation tooling

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 7:05 PM

#

safe dragon a very funny thing to say

It creates an implicte output wire with the name of the function and assigns the value to that lol

safe dragon Oct 10, 2025, 7:06 PM

#

hardware programming sounds fascinating

#

and not enticing cause you complain about it every time

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 7:09 PM

#

Lol

#

I complain a lot

marble jewel Oct 10, 2025, 7:27 PM

#

Usually phone OS updates are incremental and otherwise not a big deal, but I must say my phone's ability to screen unknown callers has been amazing

#

I reject so many calls now

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 7:49 PM

#

Another thing I dislike about soscmd

#

It doesn't bother to have the common forms of some commands

#

Ie, you can't do soscmd mv you have to spell out soscmd move

#

Or soscmd co can't be spelled soscmd checkout

cyan shadow Oct 10, 2025, 8:12 PM

#

marble jewel Usually phone OS updates are incremental and otherwise not a big deal, but I mus...

It's such a useful feature to have fr

marble jewel Oct 10, 2025, 8:13 PM

#

I get so many calls from recruiters, but I couldn't just reject every call before because there are also legitimate reasons why I expect unknown callers

sonic mirage Oct 10, 2025, 8:23 PM

#

I was on the phone a bunch the other day and then got a call from an unknown number, so I answered assuming it was someone calling me back. Nope, first spam caller in awhile playing some looping political speech. It didn't even start at the beginning.

cinder karma Oct 10, 2025, 10:27 PM

#

-force-all-hash-as-comments

#

Sometimes I have questions I dont want amswes too

#

I went into the documentation to find a completely different flag btw

prisma flume Oct 11, 2025, 1:10 AM

#

@cinder karma off-topic discussion of roll-your-own multi-threaded solutions
https://www.nationaldaycalendar.com/national-day/i-love-yarn-day-second-saturday-in-october

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 1:15 AM

#

Does it come with free yarn

prisma flume Oct 11, 2025, 1:24 AM

#

no 😌

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 1:51 AM

#

Killjoy

#

What else can I live for

prisma flume Oct 11, 2025, 2:27 AM

#

this isn't the channel for philosophy, you want #creative-discussion

devout vault Oct 11, 2025, 2:46 AM

#

SDVPufferThink

#

What if it’s philosophy of programming

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 2:55 AM

#

safe dragon and not enticing cause you complain about it every time

prisma flume Oct 11, 2025, 5:27 AM

#

devout vault What if it’s philosophy of programming

i thought we agreed nobody uses zen mode in their IDE 🎑

safe dragon Oct 11, 2025, 2:56 PM

#

it's true

#

I use helix where that's essentially the only option

#

(in visual studio or vscode I have basically every panel that's useful open tho)

devout vault Oct 11, 2025, 2:57 PM

#

prisma flume i thought we agreed nobody uses zen mode in their IDE 🎑

I would never agree with something that takes away an avenue of jokes

#

(But also, that’s the mode where you only see the text editor? Ewww)

crystal wren Oct 11, 2025, 3:00 PM

#

Meanwhile vim's zen mode just shows you the whitespace.

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 3:03 PM

#

I hate you

#

You're definitely not my favorite brit SDVpufferheart

safe dragon Oct 11, 2025, 3:03 PM

#

vim has a zen mode?

#

how does something that is already nothing but text and basically zero extra information out of the box even think of something to zennify it

#

turn off syntax highlighting

#

vim starts playing lofi tunes

supple ether Oct 11, 2025, 3:10 PM

#

Shows you one line at a time
Displays your code in haiku

pliant snow Oct 11, 2025, 3:19 PM

#

supple ether Shows you one line at a time Displays your code in haiku

I like how one line at a time just puts it back to the ex editor

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 3:23 PM

#

Has knitting

dusty pollen Oct 11, 2025, 6:44 PM

#

cinder karma You're definitely not my favorite brit <:SDVpufferheart:544718683486814228>

of course not, that would be duke

safe dragon Oct 11, 2025, 6:56 PM

#

duke fishron

#

from terraria

#

well known brit

dusty pollen Oct 11, 2025, 7:12 PM

#

incorrect

#

duke beagle

#

world's biggest baby

cyan shadow Oct 11, 2025, 7:19 PM

#

dusty pollen world's biggest baby

Comfi

dusty pollen Oct 11, 2025, 7:19 PM

#

the comfiest

safe dragon Oct 11, 2025, 7:22 PM

#

damn they would be first place

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 7:27 PM

#

Crumble pretending atra knows anything about any video game

#

When atra isn't really sure what an video game is

safe dragon Oct 11, 2025, 7:33 PM

#

it's ok it's only one of the most successful indie games ever released

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 7:39 PM

#

I'm sure it's a great video game, whatever a video game is

#

I hear the Saudis are buying EA

safe dragon Oct 11, 2025, 7:39 PM

#

they are

#

or have idk

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 7:39 PM

#

(I have no idea what EA makes.)

#

Or is.

safe dragon Oct 11, 2025, 7:40 PM

#

they make football games

#

both varieties of football

dusty pollen Oct 11, 2025, 7:42 PM

#

cinder karma (I have no idea what EA makes.)

the sims. people angry

devout vault Oct 11, 2025, 9:36 PM

#

You know, there's a tangible benefit to VRing with a remote desktop program

#

This menace can’t get in front of my monitor

#

(He finally settled for taking that picture)

terse galleon Oct 11, 2025, 9:46 PM

#

you have a little leopard!

devout vault Oct 11, 2025, 9:47 PM

#

My parents', yeah

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 9:49 PM

#

I dont know, I think that cat picked you

safe dragon Oct 11, 2025, 9:49 PM

#

your parents' leopard

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 9:49 PM

#

Effing adorable cat

safe dragon Oct 11, 2025, 9:49 PM

#

and you're the leopard's

prisma flume Oct 11, 2025, 11:02 PM

#

cinder karma (I have no idea what EA makes.)

they own everything. command & conquer, ea sports, mass effect, battlefield, plants vs zombies, every recent star wars game, the sims, dragon age, bejeweled, the list goes on

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 11:02 PM

#

Everything you say

#

Do they own microwave

#

Microsoft

prisma flume Oct 11, 2025, 11:04 PM

#

i own microwave.

#

i do not own dishwasher.

#

the post-merger monopoly will be a sight to behold

cinder karma Oct 11, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

Brb PRing my washer with a dewalt motor

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 12:51 AM

#

There hasn't been a message in here in over 24 hours.

Did we collectively forget how to ~~program~~ be off topic?

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 12:52 AM

#

I'm being sued by Samsung for putting a dewalt motor near their washer

prisma flume Oct 13, 2025, 1:15 AM

#

unfortunately i'm busy being three flavours of on-topic

#

and i know full well you are, too SDVdemetriums

#

say since when does spacecore have a banner and icon

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:21 AM

#

prisma flume say since when does spacecore have a banner and icon

September 14th

Picky asked me about getting one made for me in February and due to mental health nonsense I never got around to it, but at one point (June I think) I had mentioned that to a few people and DH made me that one. Finally got around to uploading it last month

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:21 AM

#

prisma flume and i know full well you are, too <:SDVdemetriums:702504896234258442>

I can only think of two flavors of on topic for myself

#

(Not counting you asking that question right now)

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:22 AM

#

devout vault I can only think of two flavors of on topic for myself

...wait, there are two things in progress for one of those, so I guess that would add up to three

prisma flume Oct 13, 2025, 1:23 AM

#

nobody sends me exciting offers to make my mod pages

#

looks stellar SDVpufferthumbsup very stylish

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:24 AM

#

prisma flume nobody sends me exciting offers to make *my* mod pages

Clearly you just need to make/maintain the most critical non-Pathos-made thing for the community

#

(though that's diminished a lot since JA is no longer needed 😅 )

prisma flume Oct 13, 2025, 1:25 AM

#

ah yes, NPC Map Locations

#

apparently

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:25 AM

#

...do you maintain that now?

prisma flume Oct 13, 2025, 1:26 AM

#

well no, but surprisingly it's sitting between CP and SpaceCore in nexus' most popular

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:26 AM

#

Ah

prisma flume Oct 13, 2025, 1:26 AM

#

by a convincing 1,000,000 downloads

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:26 AM

#

The difference there is that NPC map locations may be popular, it's not critical

#

By nature of "mods needing it to work"

#

If JA were still necessary spacecore would probably be a fair bit higher

#

Since spacecore was required for it

prisma flume Oct 13, 2025, 1:27 AM

#

speaking of working, i'm surprised pytk still sits on (at the end of) the most popular page

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:28 AM

#

It's not on there for me, but going to the full page instead of the home puts it as the first item after what was on the home page

#

...oh, I see why

prisma flume Oct 13, 2025, 1:28 AM

#

though it'd only be replaced by stardewhack apparently which ??? is still used?

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:30 AM

#

(There's a single portrait mod marked as adult (which I don't have disabled from showing, though more for other games than stardew))

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:30 AM

#

prisma flume though it'd only be replaced by stardewhack apparently which ??? is still used?

I assume mainly because of bigger backpack

#

Since the author of that took over that mod from me at one point

#

(it was also a super popular mod)

worn remnant Oct 13, 2025, 1:36 AM

#

wear more rings is also insanely popular and requires stardewhack

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 1:36 AM

#

~~the reason I had to make the spacecore equipment menu~~

#

Yeah, I like that one a lot too

#

One of the ones I install when I pretend I'm gonna actually play

steel kraken Oct 13, 2025, 1:44 AM

#

I have the critical #1669th most popular mod, between Fishing Trawler (PyTK) and Seasonal outfits for Adventurer's guild expanded

regal ingot Oct 13, 2025, 2:13 AM

#

devout vault There hasn't been a message in here in over 24 hours. Did we collectively forge...

I was busy actually programmning...

Ok, that's a lie. I was busy going through a dozen open tabs and copying links into the README of a repo so that if I do need to refer to them again I'll know where to find them. So, like, cleaning up from successfully programming in a new/unfamiliar environment.

#

If I were to be doing something on-topic it should be trying to repro that GMCM issue that you asked whether was still an issue like a month ago. That email is slowly being buried in my inbox, but I'll get to it eventually. (Really! Maybe. I did put a flag on it, at least.)

dusty pollen Oct 13, 2025, 5:10 AM

#

regal ingot If I were to be doing something on-topic it should be trying to repro that GMCM ...

are you talking about the soft lock bug, or something else?

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 5:20 AM

#

devout vault There hasn't been a message in here in over 24 hours. Did we collectively forge...

I was playing runescape hc_pensive

prisma flume Oct 13, 2025, 6:06 AM

#

for over 24 hours...

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 6:10 AM

#

hc_pensive

#

average gaming session really

#

tbh this whole weekend I've been working out a programming problem I want to solve at work

#

brain's been busy

steel kraken Oct 13, 2025, 6:12 AM

#

In my defence I was at PAX Aus

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 4:13 PM

#

Good morning from documentation hell

#

You'd think package documentation would tell you useful things but no

#

No joke. This doc page tells me nothing more than the package exists.

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 4:14 PM

#

good evening from burger restaurant

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 4:14 PM

#

cinder karma No joke. This doc page tells me nothing more than the package exists.

very useful

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 4:14 PM

#

cds_rnm_pkg for any of y'all who know and want to save me

#

Save me from myself crumble

dusty pollen Oct 13, 2025, 4:14 PM

#

cinder karma No joke. This doc page tells me nothing more than the package exists.

what else do you need to know, really

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 4:15 PM

#

content distribution system _ random _ package

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 4:15 PM

#

https://youtu.be/_JQiEs32SqQ?si=Sc5kAA5FMiMCp1XD

YouTube

Nickelback

Nickelback - Savin' Me

‘'Get Rollin' Out Now: https://Nickelback.lnk.to/GetRollinID

© 2007 WMG
Savin' Me

Buy it on iTunes: http://bit.ly/9V1K1W

Nickelback's new album, 'No Fixed Address' is available now: http://smarturl.it/NBNoFixedAddress

Connect with Nickelback:
http://nickelback.com
http://fb.com/nickelback
http://twitter.com/nickelback
http://instagram.com...

▶ Play video

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 4:15 PM

#

gives you random content

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 4:19 PM

#

dusty pollen what else do you need to know, really

The list of types in the package would be great

#

Tbh

#

Actually I've tracked down the source already and these are just very thin wrappers tbh

#

Smh

#

29 total lines of source include whitespace

#

Unrelated

#

I love this https://youtu.be/j0wJBEZdwLs?si=zNA4JEw6zIuDoL9H

YouTube

3Blue1Brown

But what is a Laplace Transform?

Visualizing the most important tool for differential equations.
Previous chapter: https://youtu.be/-j8PzkZ70Lg
Instead of sponsored ad reads, these lessons are funded directly by viewers: https://3b1b.co/support
An equally valuable form of support is to simply share the videos.
Home page: https://www.3blue1brown.com

Pi creature car artwork by K...

▶ Play video

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 4:25 PM

#

I saw that in my feed

#

I sensed that it was coming from a previous video

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 4:30 PM

#

I love how good educational YouTube is

supple ether Oct 13, 2025, 4:54 PM

#

I love edutube when it's the actually good people but there's also a huge number of "documentarians" who just make a ten minute video out of reading the wikipedia page for a thing

fleet wren Oct 13, 2025, 5:01 PM

#

same energy as "plot analysis" videos that's literally just them reading the wiki plot synopsis line by line

#

one of those videos autoplayed on my mom's ipad while she was cooking, and after 10 minutes I asked her "...where's the analysis?" and she just shrugged lmao

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 5:01 PM

#

I've run into a lot of completely automated youtube channels that summarize manga chapters or tv series

#

weird stuff

fleet wren Oct 13, 2025, 5:04 PM

#

low effort monies with the power of ai™

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 5:05 PM

#

O.o Google with a good feature for once

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 5:05 PM

#

safe dragon I've run into a lot of completely automated youtube channels that summarize mang...

I pretty much only listen to a handful of youtuber who I know are real people tbh

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 5:06 PM

#

cinder karma O.o Google with a good feature for once

The categories actually seem to work well?????

#

Damn

#

97% of my photos I don't care about after five minutes and I haven't bothered clearing them

#

(Hi. I am of the age that remembers Google as a good thing, which means I'm very old. Ancient.)

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 5:12 PM

#

I think every single person here does...

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 5:13 PM

#

Real talk but of all the ai agents I think Gemini works the best

dusty pollen Oct 13, 2025, 7:08 PM

#

safe dragon I think every single person here does...

(atra strongly believes anything they experienced must be an Old thing and only experienced by Olds like them. a few months ago they said they miss the bygone days of sass.)

#

this has been my presentation on "things atra believes make them old"

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 7:09 PM

#

ah yes sass

#

the thing my previous job introduced as the new thing

#

zsh...

#

so sad that atra has no idea what is actually old

#

I guess to be fair, sass is no longer hip

#

it's all about tailwind now

#

the hip shell to use would be fish

#

using git bash on windows just means you're a linux user forced onto windows

heavy daggerBOT Oct 13, 2025, 7:18 PM

#

New quote added by atravita as #6685 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1427372526308163837)

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 7:20 PM

#

Secretly iro

#

I know I'm not old

#

I'm just ancient in discord terms

#

Where thr average age is like 14

#

But also I do feel like I haven't done enough useful things in my life, etx

#

Long list of regrets

devout vault Oct 13, 2025, 7:21 PM

#

safe dragon using git bash on windows just means you're a linux user forced onto windows

One day I'll get around to switching

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 7:25 PM

#

Meanwhile the kids have only used phones and chatgpt

#

I hate how outlook will sometimes claim i have an unread email

#

And I cant find it

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 7:29 PM

#

the kid's gotta be really young to have only used chatgpt

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 7:31 PM

#

Well I'm thinking hs/early college kids tbh

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

can't wait till I experience my first "got through uni by putting my assignments into chatgpt" colleagues

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 7:32 PM

#

We've gotten interns like that already

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 7:33 PM

#

I've almost solely worked with people older than me so far

#

I think the new data analyst guy is also too old to be one of those

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 7:35 PM

#

See! You're young!

marble jewel Oct 13, 2025, 7:36 PM

#

I can tell I'm getting old because more and more people I work with are younger than me now

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 7:36 PM

#

I'm 28 hc_pensive

#

which is young

#

but not chatgpt young

marble jewel Oct 13, 2025, 7:37 PM

#

I'm sort of young passing though so I don't really get treated like I'm as old as I am

safe dragon Oct 13, 2025, 7:38 PM

#

biggest chatgpt users in my environment are people in their 60s

#

but also like half the people in my work environment are in their 60s

#

so not a great sample

cinder karma Oct 13, 2025, 7:47 PM

#

dusty pollen (atra strongly believes anything they experienced must be an Old thing and only ...

Anyways iro

#

Barefoot shoes are old.

#

What's funny is that my older coworkers will refer to some older media property and I wont recognize it

supple ether Oct 14, 2025, 4:55 AM

#

safe dragon it's all about tailwind now

I do not understand why it gets so much love. It's just inline styling but worse

fleet wren Oct 14, 2025, 4:59 AM

#

til tailwind

#

it seems like css for people who don't want to deal with css

#

~~which explains why it's popular~~

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 5:45 AM

#

its 2025 bootstrap but LLM ai is heavily trained to use it

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 5:56 AM

#

implying LLMs haven't been heavily trained on bootstrap too

#

Microsoft still ships their newest web framework with bootstrap without even giving you a choice

#

🙏

#

i thought tailwind was really cool at one point

#

then I learnt css and opted to just... write css

thorn ingot Oct 14, 2025, 6:19 AM

#

No idea where to go for this. Can sdv mods work on mobile? On the phone? I wanna try to get the expanded mod

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 6:26 AM

#

I think modding support exists on android but idk to what degree. #modded-stardew is the place to go tho this is an off topic channel for programming nerds

thorn ingot Oct 14, 2025, 6:28 AM

#

Okay, thank you!!!

vital sleet Oct 14, 2025, 8:10 AM

#

Question for the developers of SMAPI. I’m trying to make my own mod loader for another C#/Mono game, but I’m struggling to figure out how to inject the loader into the game process/create the necessary hooks. If someone can point me to the parts of SMAPI that handle that so I could use it as an example, I’d greatly appreciate it.

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:34 AM

#

smapi doesn't inject anything, you launch smapi directly and smapi has stardew as an assembly reference and calls its startup methods

#

for macos/linux it does replace the startup shell script

#

for windows, its up to the user to launch smapi directly or update the steam/other launcher startup launch args to run smapi instead

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:29 AM

#

If the other c# game is unity, there’s also a generic unity modloader available. I think it’s called bepinX or something

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 1:23 PM

#

C++ may be cumbersome, but I sure wish some things doable with it were doable in C#

#

There's been many times in the past when I've wanted to use values instead of just types as generic parameters, for instance

#

And I also get annoyed every time I have to do something like:

try
{
  someMutex.Lock();
  // ...
}
finally
{
  someMutex.Free();
}

I wish there was some way to run code on scope exit. I guess using can somewhat do that, but I can't exactly prevent compilation from an error when not using using, now can I?

#

struct can't have destructors, and even if it could you can't exactly prevent them from being copied as far as I know

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:02 PM

#

Also I think I'd like the nullable stuff more if it was more "opt in":
Like, instead of:

SomeClass? instanceOrNull;
SomeClass instance;

I could do

SomeClass instanceOrNull;
SomeClass! instance;

And I would like it more (at least for SDV modding)

#

I think I get why that's not what they went with, though

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:06 PM

#

devout vault And I also get annoyed every time I have to do something like: ```cs try { som...

what’s the alternative?

#

the only alt version I can think of is python’s with keyword but that’s because I don’t have a massive amount of oop experience haha

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:07 PM

#

dusty pollen what’s the alternative?

In C++ it was normally just something like (going off memory from SFML):

sf::Lock lock( some Mutex );
// lock is freed automatically when leaving the scope

#

Using destructors

#

The whole RAII thing

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:07 PM

#

devout vault Also I think I'd like the nullable stuff more if it was more "opt in": Like, ins...

I am very glad this is not the case tbh

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:08 PM

#

dusty pollen I am very glad this is not the case tbh

Fair. I think the current design is better overall, but very cumbersome when dealing with a large codebase that doesn't use nullable (such as SDV modding)

#

It'd be different if it was in the language from the beginning

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:09 PM

#

rider loves giving me warnings that I don’t ACTUALLY need to check a value for null when I really do because it’s from the base game

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:09 PM

#

Clearly someone needs to write a static analyzer for SDV and output a reference assembly with it having proper nullability.

#

Solve the halting problem too, while they're at it

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:09 PM

#

the halting problem is easy. the answer is yes

#

eventually, all code will halt

#

code can’t escape the heat death of the universe

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:10 PM

#

smh I want code that can run until (and past) the heat death of the universe

#

Same brain cell 😂

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:12 PM

#

reminds me of asking the models of computation tutor if something was infinite or finite but arbitrarily large and being told that nothing is infinite so in this case infinity is like, a million

#

(that’s how I learned that questions from the maths half of my degree don’t necessarily transfer to the cs half SDVpuffersquee )

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:13 PM

#

Clearly they've never heard the universe/human stupidity quote

#

("Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former")

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:14 PM

#

they’re a cs tutor, they heard the quote they just weren’t certain what a human is

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:14 PM

#

dusty pollen reminds me of asking the models of computation tutor if something was infinite o...

I've always wanted to pin a nice, clean value on infinity. So much more convenient, I'll be using that instead of float.inf now - thanks!

#

...they're a cs tutor, not a philosophy tutor

#

smh

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:14 PM

#

yes, exactly. they’ve yet to encounter one

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:14 PM

#

SDVPufferThink

#

Was your tutor an early LLM

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:15 PM

#

no, llms perform better than he did at answering the actual question being asked

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:16 PM

#

Was this recent

#

Maybe he was an early model

#

Or one of the predecessors (that are only vaguely similar), like a markov chain

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:16 PM

#

a magic eight ball would have performed better than he did at actually answering questions

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:17 PM

#

Man, I've never heard of a tutor where RNG would be more helpful

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:19 PM

#

considering his teaching style was “reciting the information from the lectures again in a less clear, more fragmented way and getting completely confused if literally any question got asked”, I would put him somewhere between “notes you borrowed from your least reliable classmate” and “broken audio recorder” on the usefulness spectrum

#

I did once get him to say demons~~ic nondeterminism~~ are real and angels~~ic nondeterminism~~ are not though

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 2:22 PM

#

What

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:23 PM

#

what

#

Did he come from the Forgotten Realms or something

#

(strictly speaking the angel equivalent isn't called angel there, I think)

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:25 PM

#

demonic nondeterminism is "you do the same thing multiple times and a single branch happens each time", so basically you have to assume the worst branch happens

angelic nondeterminism is "you do something and all branches are evaluated at once and irrelevant ones get discarded", so basically you're guaranteed to get the ideal result

#

at least that's the version of the definitions we were taught

#

as you can imagine, only one of these happens in practice SDVpuffersquee

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:26 PM

#

wha

#

I've never even heard of those

#

Did your school have a secret cult

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:26 PM

#

and yes these are real terms lmao

though they don't seem to be super common

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:26 PM

#

devout vault Did your school have a secret cult

it has multiple but none have anything to do with this specific topic

#

it tends to be the humanities students tbh

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:27 PM

#

Why was demonic and angelic chosen. Was the term invented by the templeOS guy

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:28 PM

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because the cs naming convention is "if it can't be a pun, make it unnecessarily dramatic"

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:28 PM

#

Hmm

#

Or just "invent useless jargon for a simple concept"

#

(I'm still baffled by "dynamic programming"/"memoization" when it's basically just... caching...)

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 2:29 PM

#

dusty pollen as you can imagine, only one of these happens in practice <:SDVpuffersquee:56283...

Yeah no I'm not drunk enough to discuss waveform collapse this early in the morning

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:29 PM

#

are you familiar with tries vs trees

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 2:29 PM

#

Buy me a nice kombucha at 5pm and we can talk

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:30 PM

#

dusty pollen are you familiar with `trie`s vs `tree`s

A tree is a plant. A trie is an autocorrect that works based on phonetics but doesn't know the word "try" uses a y

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:30 PM

#

cinder karma Yeah no I'm not drunk enough to discuss waveform collapse this early in the morn...

waveform collapse cannot usefully be harnessed into making search algorithms constant time

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:30 PM

#

devout vault A tree is a plant. A `trie` is an autocorrect that works based on phonetics but ...

wrong! a trie is like a tree but different. it's pronounced tree

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:30 PM

#

I reject your reality

#

What's different about it

#

Why couldn't they just choose a tree synonym like any other sane person

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:31 PM

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uh it's a type of tree

#

I can't remember what's special about it

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:31 PM

#

Oh

#

Then call it a birch or an oak or something smh

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:32 PM

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devout vault Why couldn't they just choose a tree synonym like any other sane person

(Tooooooootally sane. nervously hides my mixin keywords for language idea under the couch)

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:32 PM

#

oh right it's trees where instead of each node storing a value, the edges store the difference in value between a parent node and its children, so you build the value by following the edges

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:32 PM

#

(those (hypothetical, of course) keywords were mainly because I couldn't think of anything better though)

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:33 PM

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dusty pollen oh right it's trees where instead of each node storing a value, the edges store ...

Then call it a delta tree or something! Don't change a random letter to something similar-ish!

#

gosh

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:33 PM

#

the alternative name is "prefix tree"

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 2:33 PM

#

dusty pollen waveform collapse cannot usefully be harnessed into making search algorithms con...

Are you familiar with the multiworld theory

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:33 PM

#

Why do the people who invent things and name them always have to be the insane ones

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:34 PM

#

cinder karma Are you familiar with the multiworld theory

I am but I'm unfortunately confined to just one world SBVPensiveButt

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:34 PM

#

devout vault Why do the people who invent things and name them always have to be the insane o...

I had a lecturer who used to go on long rants about the name "quicksort" (in his defense, he and Tony Hoare were colleagues lmao)

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:35 PM

#

dusty pollen the alternative name is "prefix tree"

Was this invented for something like appending a string sort of thing? Or difference as in actual mathematical operation sort of thing (ie. end value is completely different).

Because if the latter... I'll take trie, I guess

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:35 PM

#

wdym?

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:36 PM

#

dusty pollen I had a lecturer who used to go on long rants about the name "quicksort" (in his...

brb inventing instasort (it's like RNGsort, but since the name has "insta" in it it'll be instant)

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:36 PM

#

here's a diagram of one, if that clarifies things (ignore what's on the nodes, that's for illustration only)

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:37 PM

#

dusty pollen wdym?

Like:

1. a
    2. b
         3. d
    4. c

Then 3 would be abd, since each is prefixed onto the other

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 2:37 PM

#

here, a better illustration

heavy daggerBOT Oct 14, 2025, 2:37 PM

#

New quote added by atravita as #6686 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1427665700670935161)

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 2:37 PM

#

devout vault Why do the people who invent things and name them always have to be the insane o...

So you and I get to name everything right

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:39 PM

#

dusty pollen here's a diagram of one, if that clarifies things (ignore what's on the nodes, t...

Okay yeah that's acceptable. I was thinking something more like

root: someObject { x = 0, y = 0, z = 0 }
1. someObject.x = 1 { x=1, y=0, z=0 }
  2. someObject.z = 4 { x=1, y=0, z=4}
     3. someObject.x = 2 {x=2, y=0, z=4}

In which case I was gonna need to hunt down the person called it a prefix tree take away their naming-things license

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:39 PM

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cinder karma So you and I get to name everything right

My mod (name) portofolio speaks for itself

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 2:46 PM

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And every third thing is named after your cat

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:47 PM

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I don't think I have a single mod named after my (former) cat

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~~former isn't the right word for having passed away but not sure what the right word would be - "late" doesn't sound right in that context~~

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 2:48 PM

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Then again at work we had a discussion over the meaning od the word 0

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:50 PM

#

devout vault I don't think I have a single mod named after my (former) cat

(Also, to be fair, if I did this, nintendo would sue me into oblivion, so...)

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 2:50 PM

#

dusty pollen I had a lecturer who used to go on long rants about the name "quicksort" (in his...

Timsort

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 2:50 PM

#

("but what if it had nothing to do with the nintendo IP" does nintendo strike you as reasonable when it comes to this stuff)

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 3:08 PM

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I'm aware of nintendo

#

But not aware of their opinion on intellectual property

marble jewel Oct 14, 2025, 3:12 PM

#

devout vault And I also get annoyed every time I have to do something like: ```cs try { som...

Doesn't using lower itself to exactly that? (try-finally)
Edit: It does

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 3:19 PM

#

marble jewel Doesn't `using` lower itself to exactly that? (`try`-`finally`) Edit: [It does](...

I mean I literally said that in the exact same message 😛

#

If I could force a type to be used with using, that'd be fine

marble jewel Oct 14, 2025, 3:20 PM

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Ah, I wasn't understanding what you were saying is the difference

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 3:20 PM

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But I could accidentally Lock mutexLock = new(mutex); (ie. no using) and it never get released until GCed

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 3:21 PM

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Yeahhhh

#

Is there a jetbrains annotation for that

marble jewel Oct 14, 2025, 3:22 PM

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Some of the new C# stuff seems like it'll be possible eventually

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 3:22 PM

#

Also why we can't we hotreload generics

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 3:22 PM

#

Code annotation attributes | JetBrains Rider Documentation https://share.google/rFKp8IlYXe9Vb8BXo

JetBrains Rider Help

Code annotation attributes | JetBrains Rider

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 3:22 PM

#

Why can't they just update the generic definition and invalidate the instantiations of it

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 3:22 PM

#

Maybe

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 3:24 PM

#

cinder karma Code annotation attributes | JetBrains Rider Documentation https://share.google/...

But does this do a warning (which I often have hidden for SDV stuff in particular), or an error? And if an error, is it the kind that actually prevents compilation, or the kind you can ignore (like code style or other intellisense ones)?

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 3:26 PM

#

You can change the level of errors in c# to make it a compile time error but also I think you need rider stuff for this

#

But yeah. Agreed on c# having unfortunately few compile time reinforcement, unlike rust

#

||gets dragged off stage||

fleet wren Oct 14, 2025, 3:32 PM

#

Rust mentioned

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 3:33 PM

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The people here really need their tetanus shots it seems

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 3:33 PM

#

cinder karma You can change the level of errors in c# to make it a compile time error but als...

I use Rider on mac because VS doesn't exist there, but main is it hard to get used to

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 3:34 PM

#

an old codebase at work was littered with jetbrains annotations for nullability that no longer serve a purpose

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 3:34 PM

#

Like, there seems to just be no equivalent to this

#

No, I don't want the outline panel

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 3:34 PM

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you can make any warning an error you just need the right incantation in your csproj

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 3:35 PM

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At least some "errors" I've been able to compile through

#

(Usually IDE**** ones I think)

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 3:38 PM

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are those even real

#

if dotnet doesn't know em then it won't stop itself from building...

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 3:39 PM

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devout vault The people here really need their tetanus shots it seems

I just gone mine!

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 4:36 PM

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My favorite part of the workday - fixing my screens again

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 6:43 PM

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chonky (though 658 files and 19379 lines are from source generator generated stuff)

#

And most of the removals is removing things that the source generator is now generating

#

(how did it add up to so much then? ...I'm not entirely sure. That's only like half of the added lines, but I'm guessing stuff like usings and {} just added up a lot)

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 7:41 PM

#

Hi chat where should i begin to be programmer

#

I really want to study about ai ml and dl

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 7:47 PM

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well considering AI is the direction you're interested in... I'd start learning by using Python as your programming language of choice. Start with just solving some basic programming challenges you can find online. I like Advent of Code though it's a little early in the year for christmas themed coding puzzles rn

#

as far as tackling the actual AI part... That's just going to have to be a lot of formal study into the field. I have little to help you there

#

I say python as your starting language cause the vast majority of AI programming is doing with PyTorch which is a python library

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 7:54 PM

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safe dragon well considering AI is the direction you're interested in... I'd start learning ...

So i should start with python

#

It's important to know math?!

#

Calculus

#

?!

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 7:54 PM

#

for understanding AI research? absolutely

#

AI is very math heavy for a programming field

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 7:54 PM

#

Good good that's become cool

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

AI as a field was pretty much born out of statistics after all

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

What about machine learning and deep learning

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 7:55 PM

#

machine learning is a subfield of AI, deep learning is a subfield of machine learning

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

all modern AI is like 80-90% maths

#

if we're being honest

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

Omg that is make me to do it really

#

Thanks man

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 7:57 PM

#

oh wow, someone who's happy about that

#

good luck! from a fellow maths nerd

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 7:58 PM

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I'd say a strong understanding of mathematics and statistics gets you further in AI than being even being a professional programmer

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 7:58 PM

#

I mean it definitely depends but yeah, absolutely

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 7:58 PM

#

Math 🤢

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 7:59 PM

#

this is mathematicians-off-topic now

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 7:59 PM

#

I dropped out of statistics

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 7:59 PM

#

I dropped out before I got to statistics

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 8:01 PM

#

the only course i followed where I felt even more out of my depth that uni statistics was some course about running simulations

#

that one I knew I fucked up even choosing it within minutes of the first lecture when the guy just mumbled his way through some "prerequisite" linear algebra I didn't understand at all

#

be lecture 3 I genuinely hadn't the slightest clue what was even going on anymore

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 8:03 PM

#

What about freecodecamp.org?

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

no idea I got my start in a uni degree so I've never used any of those platforms

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

I don't think that stuff existed back when I learned

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

they were a decent resource last time I checked

#

never used them much

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

It's channel bro in YouTube

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

Youtube coding stuff wasn't much of a thing back then 😛

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 8:04 PM

#

it was originally a website/blog SDVpuffersquee

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

dusty pollen it was originally a website/blog <:SDVpuffersquee:562830783568543755>

Yeah

rain apex Oct 14, 2025, 8:05 PM

#

I think the maffs ai stream is different than the software dev stream tbh

#

It's doing stats vs doing system design

#

You should think about what you want to do or make, then people can give better advice

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 8:06 PM

#

you don't need to be "good at programming" but man do you need to understand a metric fuckton of theory

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 8:06 PM

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safe dragon you don't need to be "good at programming" but man do you need to understand a m...

Chill man im just looking for a career

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 8:07 PM

#

safe dragon you don't need to be "good at programming" but man do you need to understand a m...

Im sure i will do mistakes

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 8:07 PM

#

I don't know how it could possibly get more chill than what crumble said lmao

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 8:07 PM

#

fall asleep while typin

brittle pike Oct 14, 2025, 8:08 PM

#

Then i got it wrong:''')

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 8:08 PM

#

dusty pollen I don't know how it could possibly get more chill than what crumble said lmao

needs more ice emoji 🧊

rain apex Oct 14, 2025, 8:09 PM

#

Is looking for a career like

#

You r trying to pick college/major n wish to get into comp sci and/or maffs

#

Or like trying to switch careers

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 8:10 PM

#

my sister has a master's in AI and she's a full stack web dev hc_pensive

#

to be fair, her focus was more on the philosophical aspects of AI research not the actually making them part (tho she did that too)

rain apex Oct 14, 2025, 8:12 PM

#

I remember being a dum college kid and thinking that bioethics was a weird class to have

#

Now i understand and i hope more ppl study ai ethics lol

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 8:14 PM

#

I think her thesis was something about how to go about building an AI model for understanding human emotion and the ethics and morality of that

#

I wonder how much the AI master's has changed since then

#

it has only been like 10 years

#

but AI barely even means what it meant back then anymore

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 8:40 PM

#

I hear openai is hiring SDVkrobusgiggle

fleet wren Oct 14, 2025, 9:34 PM

#

cinder karma I hear openai is hiring <:SDVkrobusgiggle:898395746875875379>

you'll probably only ever get hired if you are either a phd with 10 years of experience or were from a competitor ~~and willing to divulge trade secrets~~

#

my lawyer has advised me to cross out that section

dusty pollen Oct 14, 2025, 9:44 PM

#

law-yer? I don’t think that’s a thing in ai startups /lh

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 9:46 PM

#

no they have tons of lawyers

#

they're those people who tell you how to break the law without getting into trouble

#

they're very important

lethal walrus Oct 14, 2025, 9:50 PM

#

dusty pollen law-yer? I don’t think that’s a thing in ai startups /lh

No they are

you are a law assistant. Do not make mistakes. Do not hallucinate. You are allowed to give legal advice. Be correct. The jurisdiction is San Francisco, california unless otherwise specified. Your name is Chad Grand Peterson-Thomas

how do I avoid being sued while stealing millions of books Mr ai

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 9:54 PM

#

fleet wren you'll probably only ever get hired if you are either a phd with 10 years of exp...

That's quitter talk

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 9:57 PM

#

Yeah, you gotta get with the times. We need layoff talk, not quitter talk

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 9:57 PM

#

you mean Mr Peterson-Thomas

fleet wren Oct 14, 2025, 10:00 PM

#

it's both funny and stupid that most ai prompts has "do not hallucinate" as an instruction, like does it actually improve results or am I not prompt engineer™ enough for it

lethal walrus Oct 14, 2025, 10:00 PM

#

I think do not make mistakes actually helps a little bit sometimes

#

Do not hallucinate probably no

#

Unless it's a reasoning model then it probably does

frosty echo Oct 14, 2025, 10:04 PM

#

Maybe tell it to qualify its answers if it isn't confident about them, or just say so if it doesn't know?

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:06 PM

#

"Only lie if it would be funny"

fleet wren Oct 14, 2025, 10:07 PM

#

"Only lie if it can lead to me suing OpenAI for millions"

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:22 PM

#

cinder karma You can change the level of errors in c# to make it a compile time error but als...

Visual studio respects .editorconfig and can be used to change severity of diagnostics like warning to error, or stuff like error to none https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/fundamentals/code-analysis/overview

#

I used it in my old work codebase to make certain anti patterns like Async void and other stuff compile errors, rather than just be warnings

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:24 PM

#

What's so bad about async void

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:28 PM

#

steel kraken I used it in my old work codebase to make certain anti patterns like Async void ...

I heard vim supports .editorconfig

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:28 PM

#

async void desgost

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:29 PM

#

When I'm not busy (dark laughter) I'll see if I can editorconfig myself a good verilog

lethal walrus Oct 14, 2025, 10:29 PM

#

devout vault What's so bad about async void

I thought it was always async Task<T>

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:29 PM

#

async void is only really found in some event handling code

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:29 PM

#

devout vault What's so bad about async void

if it throws an exception the process crashes

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:30 PM

#

Exceptions are for EXCEPTIONal circumstances...

#

(but also, what the heck, why wouldn't that be fixed by now)

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

It's fixed

#

Your supposed to return the damn task

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

root = true
[*.cs]
# CA2200: Rethrow to preserve stack details
dotnet_diagnostic.CA2200.severity = error

# VSTHRD100: Avoid "async void" methods, because any exceptions not handled by the method will crash the process.
dotnet_diagnostic.VSTHRD100.severity = error

# VSTHRD114: Avoid returning a null Task
dotnet_diagnostic.VSTHRD114.severity = error

dotnet_diagnostic.VSTHRD111.severity = warning

was our editorfile

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

it's not fixed because you should never use async void

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

There are plenty of cases like this in c#

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

it's just bad

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:31 PM

#

Like semaphore-not-slim

#

Or tuple (the reference version)

#

Where the initial implementation was bad

#

But it has to remain for backwards compat

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:32 PM

#

cinder karma It's fixed

If something seemingly reasonable crashes my program and I get a crash and I report it and they tell me just to not do that... I'd have some questions, to say the least

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:32 PM

#

the only reason async void is valid syntax is cause they needed async to work with old event handling systems

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:32 PM

#

steel kraken ```ini root = true [*.cs] # CA2200: Rethrow to preserve stack details dotnet_dia...

Remind me in 4 days to add this to my life as if I ever do anything in c#

heavy daggerBOT Oct 14, 2025, 10:32 PM

#

Bwthhybl? oh sorry got distracted yep on it (#6907795) (4d | <t:1760826775>)

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:33 PM

#

Ngl c# is a lovely language

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:33 PM

#

cinder karma But it has to remain for backwards compat

What kind of backwards compat relies on the program crashing (do not post the xkcd workflow thing)

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:33 PM

#

Pity it is used mostly for game dev

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:33 PM

#

The problem isn't so much "it crashes" its that due to being async but not having a task to track anything about it, it has nowhere to bubble the exception to

#

so it bubbles it to the process directly

#

you can handle it with the AppDomain.UnexpectedException stuff or whatever

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:33 PM

#

steel kraken The problem isn't so much "it crashes" its that due to being async but not havin...

Why not just kill the thread that did it?

#

I don't see how the program crashing is preferable to any (sane) alternative

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:34 PM

#

the only place in theory async void should ever exist is in like winform codebases

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:34 PM

#

I mean like. How would you make it not crash? You just spawned an asynchronous task but you're not awaiting it and it's just... there. Where would you even put the try catch? The method that called it isn't waiting for its completion

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:34 PM

#

where it probably ran on uithread

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:34 PM

#

safe dragon I mean like. How would you make it not crash? You just spawned an asynchronous t...

I mean some other .net runtime stuff handles running it, right? Just say "oh, no where to go, how about we not crash the entire program"

#

I'm not saying we need a reasonable way to catch it

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:35 PM

#

but what would it do instead

#

where

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:35 PM

#

It's not like it returns anything? Who cares?

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:36 PM

#

but again, thats why we added the editorconfig rule because we got bit by it once by a dev that had an async method, didn't want to return anything, and did async void instead of async Task

and after a lot of troubleshooting to find out why sometimes responses didn't happen we found it, and mitigated it by fixing the code and adding the editorconfig to ensure it doesn't happen again

#

and while I was in the neighbourhood added the other stuff that bit us, like async Task methods returning null

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:37 PM

#

Like, if it's so bad, maybe *don't let it compile in newer .net"???? (this was .net 9)

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:37 PM

#

ok to be clear. It doesn't crash the program. It crashes the synchronization context. Whether that crashes the application would depend on how the application handles that.

In ASP.NET Core it'd just crash that request

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:37 PM

#

Oh. Hmm. I don't know what the synchronization context is

#

(And don't say "context for synchronization")

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:38 PM

#

ASP.NET Core doesn't do magic syncronization contexts though iirc

#

its a mechanism that ASP.NET (framework) and stuff like winforms did, so that when you await a thing, you always go back to the correct thread afterwards

#

if you wanted to opt out of the syncronization context, you await mything().ConfigureAwait(false)

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:39 PM

#

idk anymore tbh they've changed the defaults and how this works so many times

#

you'd never use async void in ASP.NET core anyway cause you're already in a proper async context anyway

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:40 PM

#

timeline wise I don't remember if our codebase was asp.net core yet, or still on asp.net framework

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:40 PM

#

But what if I want to use async in my stardew mod? (I'm sure SDV/SMAP I would be fiiiiiiine - multithreading is easy, right?)

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:40 PM

#

Task.Run that thing and send it off

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:41 PM

#

I have multiple mods doing multithreading in stardew, but its very inconvenient that Monitor isn't threadsafe

#

and the architecture of profiler breaks if it tracks stuff on other threads

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:42 PM

#

only time I do threading myself is for advent of code tbh

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:42 PM

#

steel kraken I have multiple mods doing multithreading in stardew, but its very inconvenient ...

I wonder if my last autocomplete PR would indirectly fix that, since it multithreaded the console

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:42 PM

#

steel kraken I have multiple mods doing multithreading in stardew, but its very inconvenient ...

Yeah remind me to look into this when I'm not busy

#

I want zero allocation logging.... why do I even care lol

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:43 PM

#

safe dragon only time I do threading myself is for advent of code tbh

Rayon my heart

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:43 PM

#

that's rust smh

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:43 PM

#

cinder karma I want zero allocation logging.... why do I even care lol

magic 8 ball: "I see Spans in your future"

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:43 PM

#

tbh Parallel. stuff in C# can be pretty damn impressive sometimes

#

but it lacks the convenience of rayon

#

and parallel linq often enough just doesn't work

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:44 PM

#

I've only heard terrible things about rust and concurrency

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:44 PM

#

I like rust concurrency

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:44 PM

#

I've only heard terrible things about rust or concurrency

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:44 PM

#

well

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:44 PM

#

(I had my tetanus shot, you see)

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:44 PM

#

I like rust threading

#

rust async is weird and a mess

#

still can't really define async functions in a trait

#

I mean it's kinda possible now but it's limited

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:46 PM

#

devout vault magic 8 ball: "I see `Span`s in your future"

Atra 💖 spans

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:46 PM

#

I used spans just earlier today

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:46 PM

#

Atra 💖 rust

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:47 PM

#

the spans were just for some string parsing

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:47 PM

#

safe dragon tbh `Parallel.` stuff in C# can be pretty damn impressive sometimes

It also lacks the job stealing magic of rayon

#

If i cared more I would try to bring rayon to c# but you know

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:47 PM

#

theft is bad smh

fleet wren Oct 14, 2025, 10:47 PM

#

Rust async gives Rust concurrency a bad name tbh, and only because of the sugary syntax

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:48 PM

#

I haven't done much multithreaded rust but what if did I liked a lot

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:48 PM

#

I don't know what rayon is and just assumed y'all were talking about C# library the whole time (especially with the comparisons to C# Parallel.)

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:49 PM

#

Cilk for rust

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:50 PM

#

fleet wren Rust async gives Rust concurrency a bad name tbh, and only because of the sugary...

Rust ||~~async gives Rust concurrency a~~|| bad ||~~name tbh~~||, and only because ||~~of the sugary syntax~~|| yes
Fixed that for you

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:50 PM

#

think like LINQ's AsParallel but it actually works

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:51 PM

#

cinder karma Cilk for rust

And what is Cilk?

Let me guess, Rayon for <something else here>

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:51 PM

#

safe dragon think like LINQ's AsParallel but it actually works

Well I've literally never used that, soooooooo

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:51 PM

#

you use rayon in essentially the same way you do LINQ but it's executed in parallel

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:51 PM

#

Still clueless

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:51 PM

#

Job stealing thread handler for cpp

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:51 PM

#

surely you've used linq

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:51 PM

#

Not AsParallel

#

Developed by mit in the...90s?

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:51 PM

#

LINQ of course, but no parallel kinds

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:51 PM

#

One second

#

Lecture 13: The Cilk Runtime System | Performance Engineering of Software Systems | Electrical Engineering and Computer Science | MIT OpenCourseWare https://share.google/Gq4BmuJfcmZaptRUf

MIT OpenCourseWare

Lecture 13: The Cilk Runtime System | Performance Engineering of So...

MIT OpenCourseWare is a web based publication of virtually all MIT course content. OCW is open and available to the world and is a permanent MIT activity

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:52 PM

#

cinder karma Lecture 13: The Cilk Runtime System | Performance Engineering of Software System...

Do you really expect me of all people to sit still and watch a video

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:52 PM

#

Fixing my fucking displays at work AGAIN I hate this

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:52 PM

#

Nonfiction videos, eww

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:52 PM

#

tbh I've only either accidently used linq, or delibrately used linq but for Entity Framework where it is an IQueryable and is lazy evaluated, so it only actually collapses the expressions and computes the SQL query and sends it to the database when the value is actually observed

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:53 PM

#

entity framework my beloathed

#

hc_pensive

#

I use linq a lot

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:53 PM

#

I originally disliked ORMs, but I love Entity framework

#

its so cool writing C# typesafe expression code and it becomes a SQL query

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:54 PM

#

I've had too many fights with EF Core generating terrible queries or in some cases even generating invalid queries

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:54 PM

#

devout vault Do you really expect me of all people to sit still and watch a video

No but I'm not going to sing the praises of a mit developed multithread solution for large computations when I'm supposed to be fighting work version control

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:54 PM

#

outside of EF, I generally avoid linq because its historically been terrible for performancee

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:55 PM

#

it's clear atra likes the tech behind it while for me rayon is just "it has a nice user friendly api"

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:55 PM

#

steel kraken its so cool writing C# typesafe expression code and it becomes a SQL query

~~me with my content pack generation ideas earlier~~ (except not SQL, obviously)

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:55 PM

#

steel kraken outside of EF, I generally avoid linq because its historically been terrible for...

hardly true anymore in in modern . net

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:55 PM

#

safe dragon it's clear atra likes the tech behind it while for me rayon is just "it has a ni...

I'm a fucking nerd

#

A nerd

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:56 PM

#

safe dragon hardly true anymore in in modern . net

Ah, but is .net 6 considered modern?

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:56 PM

#

No

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:56 PM

#

no

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:56 PM

#

We're stuck in 6 here in modding land

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:56 PM

#

(I'm freeeeeeeee)

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:56 PM

#

the big linq perf improvements didn't really come till after 6

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:57 PM

#

Lol, it's funny to find a utf16 file at work

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:57 PM

#

devout vault I wonder if my last autocomplete PR would indirectly fix that, since it multithr...

I should update this and poke Pathos about merging it...

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:57 PM

#

They think they can hide

#

They can't hide from my xxd

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:57 PM

#

~~I've got other PRs I need to do too though~~

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 10:58 PM

#

I think in .NET 6 the only linq queries that are actually fast are shit like Sum which has some funky SIMD optimized magic behind it

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 10:58 PM

#

Fuck it I'm gonna make the guy who wanted this stupid version control deal with this in the morning

#

Smh

#

Nightmare

#

Can't check in because it's not checked oit. Can't check out because it's not checked in

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 10:59 PM

#

safe dragon the big linq perf improvements didn't really come till after 6

I fought so hard to get my old work codebases out of .NET Framework 4.6.1 to .NET 6, but the project died before I think we ever actually moved it to .NET 8
I think some of the docker containers are .NET 8 runtimes but the codebase is still .NET6 rated

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 10:59 PM

#

So glad I'm free from perforce

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 11:00 PM

#

but I was already off the team before those docker containers actually shipped to prod

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:00 PM

#

most of the projects I worked on at my old job will never leave .NET Framework

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:00 PM

#

I don't envy you

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:00 PM

#

added a crucial word. My old job

#

it's their problem

#

I'm in glorious .NET 9 land ~~and .NET 6 for another one~~

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 11:01 PM

#

our codebase had no actual reasons being framework, it was just started in the awkward timing when it when .NET Core 1.1 or maybe 2 was out

#

so they just stayed in framework for convenience

#

and was deploying to azure/windows stuff anyway

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:02 PM

#

safe dragon I'm in glorious .NET 9 land ~~and .NET 6 for another one~~

I do envy you

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:02 PM

#

for us it was all tied to old web and UI frameworks that were abandoned before .NET Core was conceived of

#

abandoned by Microsoft itself of course

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 11:04 PM

#

but I wanted the codebase to not suck as much so I pushed to get it from 4.6.1 to 4.7.2 (so it was able to properly use .NET Standard 2.0)
got the vast majority of the codebase to become .NET Standard 2.0, and then worked on the huge effort to get us out of EF6 to EFCore, and others worked on getting out of ASP.NET to ASP.NET Core

the results were worth it, performance was better and unit tests went from taking 4 hours to 20 minutes

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:04 PM

#

tbh it's for the best if ASP.NET Web Forms dies

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:05 PM

#

This talk of web-related C# is giving me war flashbacks to blazor debugging (or whatever if it was I struggled with - I'm sure I whined about it here at some point)

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 11:05 PM

#

our asp.net only did json api endpoints, no html rendering outside of a debug only swagger endpoint

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:05 PM

#

it's for the best

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:06 PM

#

devout vault This talk of web-related C# is giving me war flashbacks to blazor debugging (or ...

Like, "issue on github where the issue was acknowledged but never saw any updates" level bad

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:06 PM

#

I think modern ASP.NET Core APIs are actually really good

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:06 PM

#

Might've been unit test related actually

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:06 PM

#

Blazor is a disaster however

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 11:06 PM

#

I never used the minimal apis in ASP.NET Core, they seem cute I guess

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:06 PM

#

oh yeah they're interesting but I'm still using controllers mostly

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 11:07 PM

#

but the amount of added hacks they had to add to be able to cram all the required attributes into those inlined methods was crazy

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:07 PM

#

I appreciate [FromServices]

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:08 PM

#

I'm so amused at you guys

#

The last time I did web work Django was the hottest

#

Django

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

after Django we realized python maybe wasn't the right choice for web development

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

Hottest is not the wording I expected from atra

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

at least Django is actually 20 years old

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 11:09 PM

#

I never touched django and felt too... big for my needs and always used light weight stuff instead

#

which I cant remember the name of anymore because I haven't touched python seriously in 8 years

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:10 PM

#

I've only used ASP.NET (Core) in C# and axum for rust

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:11 PM

#

devout vault Hottest is not the wording I expected from atra

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:11 PM

#

steel kraken which I cant remember the name of anymore because I haven't touched python serio...

Flask

steel kraken Oct 14, 2025, 11:11 PM

#

that was probably it

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:11 PM

#

In the good old days, we hand made our websites using PHP anbd jquery! And we liked it! If we wanted to get really fancy, we'd even go full WordPress!

(s/good/terrible/, s/liked/hated/, s/wanted to get really fancy/really hated ourselves/)

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:11 PM

#

considering the amount of work and care I had to put into performance and memory usage for this web api I don't want to to even imagine trying to make this work in python

#

good old jquery

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:12 PM

#

Wasn't bourbon and sass also things

#

Yup

#

God old Ajax too

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:13 PM

#

sass is still widely used

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:13 PM

#

I thought most of its features got eaten by vanilla css

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:13 PM

#

cinder karma Wasn't bourbon and sass also things

Not that I used

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:13 PM

#

Ajax is too I suppose in a sense

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:13 PM

#

Like variables

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:13 PM

#

I wasn't old enough to drink bourbon, and I didn't find out about sass until later

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:14 PM

#

Of course these days I'm supposed to drunkenly ask an AI to do my web dev

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:14 PM

#

it's certainly less popular than it once was

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:14 PM

#

And hope it's even remotely pleasant

#

Iro does owe me a kombucha, right?

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:14 PM

#

safe dragon it's certainly less popular than it once was

Can we reach that point soon for LLMs too

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:15 PM

#

no

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:15 PM

#

Hah

#

Bourbon - A Lightweight Sass Tool Set https://share.google/kCNjFc73jot5teWu4

Bourbon - A Lightweight Sass Tool Set

Bourbon is a library of pure Sass mixins and functions that are designed to make you a more efficient style sheet author.

#

Look at the header

#

Anyways

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:15 PM

#

why are all these Google share links that don't work for me

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:15 PM

#

Back in the bad old days we thought doing web dev while taking 1.5x class load was a wildly good plan

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:15 PM

#

I was wondering the same re:google share

#

(The links work for me though)

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:16 PM

#

Because I'm lazy crumble

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:16 PM

#

o I just reloaded it again once in the browser and it worked

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:18 PM

#

safe dragon o I just reloaded it again once in the browser and it worked

I was gonna say "are you using web discord" but even if so it wouldn't make sense for a share link to block hotlinking

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:19 PM

#

Nah Europe just got mad at Google again for privacy something probably

#

Crumble do i want to learn how the Dutch government works

devout vault Oct 14, 2025, 11:20 PM

#

cinder karma Nah Europe just got mad at Google again for privacy something probably

If only the US would do the same

#

(And everywhere else, but I live in the US so it's more personal 😛 )

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:22 PM

#

cinder karma Crumble do i want to learn how the Dutch government works

no

#

take solace in that kinda have an equivalents for the house of representatives and the senate

#

some similarities

#

ignore all the ways it's different

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:23 PM

#

Tbh if I was employable in the Netherlands

#

Although y'all's golden visa is hilarious

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:24 PM

#

... are you not?

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:24 PM

#

$5k euro

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:25 PM

#

safe dragon ... are you not?

I dont know I'm pretty dumb

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:25 PM

#

can't imagine we're swimming in applicants for your niche...

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:25 PM

#

The problem is my niche is very small in Europe

#

We tend to be in the US, Japan. Korea, or China

safe dragon Oct 14, 2025, 11:25 PM

#

hc_pensive

cinder karma Oct 14, 2025, 11:27 PM

#

If i wanted to go to Europe i think Germany is my best bet

#

And it would be a twostep

#

As in, get hired by TI, then ask for a transfer to TI-germany

#

Given that TI is doing layoffs not a good plan

#

Also i think I would end up on automotive

devout vault Oct 15, 2025, 12:05 AM

#

Haven't looked at anime recently - why is every new show still only titled "Season 1" on crunchyroll

#

devout vault Oct 15, 2025, 12:42 AM

#

#

(I found the kirby air riders twitter, and was not expecting a post like this)

cinder karma Oct 15, 2025, 1:20 AM

#

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/financial-policy-committee-record/2025/fpc-record-october-2025.pdf

dusty pollen Oct 15, 2025, 1:46 AM

#

oh that ai stuff is not surprising but still somewhat concerning

cinder karma Oct 15, 2025, 1:56 AM

#

Can't decide whether the YouTube ai search is godawful

#

Or because the bulk of YouTube is so much trash that I basically only watch new channels when a human recommends me one

steel kraken Oct 15, 2025, 3:03 AM

#

youtube search is both decent and terrible

#

mainly as it only gives like 3-5 real search results and then just does unrelated recommendations instead of the actual search critera

devout vault Oct 15, 2025, 3:06 AM

#

steel kraken mainly as it only gives like 3-5 real search results and then just does unrelate...

…wait, is that an actual thing it does and not something I imagined?

steel kraken Oct 15, 2025, 3:07 AM

#

looks like its improved a bit

#

but half way down it just does a heading of "Previously watched" which is unrelated to search, and a "from related searches" section which is also unrelated

#

but it is annoying when trying to find a specific thing and youtube just wants search to be a list variant of home page instead

#

also a "Explore more" section

cinder karma Oct 15, 2025, 3:19 AM

#

I don't know i searched "7 min halsey" and it actually found the right song lol

#

And Kevin woo is indeed pulling up Kevin woo

#

https://youtube.com/shorts/eGMdEliaOoI?si=UozgNqus_nSEPRkZ

YouTube

Jason & Lucia

Coffee ☕️ - (Sugar by Maroon 5 Parody)

▶ Play video

#

This is soooo good

#

(My car model + timing belt replacement also seems decent results)

uncut seal Oct 15, 2025, 9:34 AM

#

devout vault

Isekai Quartet 3?! Hell yeah!

uncut seal Oct 15, 2025, 9:36 AM

#

steel kraken mainly as it only gives like 3-5 real search results and then just does unrelate...

there's a firefox extension that fixes it. Never tried it though, I rarely search stuff on youtube

prisma flume Oct 15, 2025, 12:23 PM

#

unfortunately between the search page suggestions, the video page suggestions, and the new video end card suggestions that hide the playback controls after you watch a video, every page on youtube is the youtube homepage

#

i miss when the suggestions block was related videos instead of whatever it is now

cinder karma Oct 15, 2025, 2:30 PM

#

Any opinions on celery

worn remnant Oct 15, 2025, 2:37 PM

#

disgusting. a hateful vegetable. only tolerable when cooked, in a stew.

heavy daggerBOT Oct 15, 2025, 2:39 PM

#

New quote added by irocendar as #6689 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1428029000156057611)

fleet wren Oct 15, 2025, 2:40 PM

#

I have never eaten it before (don't even have a word for it in my language)
we instead use what's apparently called "elephant ear stalks" in English, and they are awesome

#

okay I lied a little, I did consume celery in a some places, but I'd hardly call it "eat" because that assumes my body is willingly deriving nutrients from those unchewable fibery stalks with indetermined soap flavors

sand frost Oct 15, 2025, 3:30 PM

#

I’m allergic to celery but not very

#

It’s a spicy vegetable

cinder karma Oct 15, 2025, 3:32 PM

#

Y'all I meant

frosty echo Oct 15, 2025, 3:32 PM

#

What, some people find cilantro soapy, celery too??

cinder karma Oct 15, 2025, 3:32 PM

#

Monitoring and Management Guide — Celery 5.6.0b1 documentation https://share.google/Qranh7QcHQdg6RXwL

#

Used it when I was a kid

#

Is it still hot or a new thing is out

frosty echo Oct 15, 2025, 3:35 PM

#

Also, spicy?? what weird celery have you all been eating

sand frost Oct 15, 2025, 6:27 PM

#

well it turns out i'm allergic to it

#

it's not spicy if you're not allergic

devout vault Oct 15, 2025, 6:28 PM

#

Danger spice