programmers-off-topic

[devout vault]

Spelunky 2 (I'm so bad at it)

[dusty pollen]

I cook because it turns out that that's the best way to obtain food on a regular basis

[tranquil grove]

actually this is spelunky

[devout vault]

I'd gotten decently good at spelunky 1, but 2 is harder

[dusty pollen]

not really for any other reason

[cinder karma]

Not bad for value for 1.4k hours

[devout vault]

Hush, free games don't count

[tranquil grove]

I played through spelunky classic in college & never got any good at the remakes

[devout vault]

I never tried classic, though I've seen some fun mods for it

[tranquil grove]

the newer one felt less precise at the time, but there was a huge gap where I didn't play them, so may just be me

[devout vault]

Okay LISTEN

[tranquil grove]

I'm not good at most platformers really

[devout vault]

(/s, I just didn't want to go into the whole "they're like the original Rogue game!" etc.)

I'm generally not a fan of platformers

There are exceptions

Like kirby games

[tranquil grove]

I only played superstar and, uh, the golf one, but both were fun

[cinder karma]

The golf one

[devout vault]

flashbacks to my mom's hand dyed cross stitch fabric and thread business

...the golf one?

[tranquil grove]

competitive pvp kirby golf, yes

[devout vault]

I'm not aware of that one

[devout vault]

Oh, that one

I guess I never really knew it was golf

[tranquil grove]

yeah, it's very much a puzzle-golf thing

[devout vault]

I never really knew what is was

[cinder karma]

Wellllll I'm not planning on trying to turn a profit

[devout vault]

See I want to work on my main game project, but A and B need doing first. (Well, A does at minimum)

[cinder karma]

Sounds awesome

[devout vault]

"what does figuring out SWIG stuff even mean"
it means I need to banish these

At least that's more concrete than the flecs.net stuff

Since flecs.net is more "Maybe this will fix it, maybe it won't. Who knows what the problem even is?"

That's what I want to know 😔

Guess I'll see if my current idea is in fact the problem

...I wonder if the test stuff will work right in rider instead of VS

(Specifically the IDE stuff running the tests - not the test code itself)

[safe dragon]

don't think it's allowed to order children

[devout vault]

Oh right, it was a dotnet problem too

(I don't know why it says another test, it was that test)

[rain apex]

how do i hide these rainbow folder things

[cinder karma]

Why hide the gay folders

[lethal walrus]

is this in not dolphin bc i dont have them

[rain apex]

idk i just updated

confused by what the gay folders even do

they make these things??

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #6563 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1406410347484676196)

[rain apex]

oh and it makes the containing folder red or whatever

my puzzlement remain

[devout vault]

For organizing things I assume

[rain apex]

i dont color code things 😔

[devout vault]

If you've got a bunch of folders you can narrow your search by color if you know what you're looking for

[rain apex]

they just confuse me further

[cinder karma]

Chue

When I was in university

I had a 2d color code of my email

Red was for important. Green was for chill/not important. Gray was "vaguely informational"

Darkness was urgency

[rain apex]

i only remember space/topology i think

gotta put shit in folders

colors are meaningless to my brain

[tranquil grove]

-ing at the fact those folder options don't have icons or something for colorblind use

[cinder karma]

I label the SharePoint folders at work with pretty colors so I can find them

[rain apex]

they do but

[tranquil grove]

(assuming they're not bound to the OS icons or something)

[rain apex]

they are hidden under Other

[tranquil grove]

ah

[cinder karma]

Oof

Is there a colorblind mode

[rain apex]

but i would like to just turn these off pls 😔

[cinder karma]

Just don't use dolphin

[rain apex]

i may have to just go and roll back yea

doing arch crimes or something

[devout vault]

Abandon UI, return to terminal

[cinder karma]

Always

[devout vault]

not that you can escape colors there these days without extra configuration

The gays are sneaking color into every facet of our lives!

[cinder karma]

My terminal at work is pink

Very intentionally

[tranquil grove]

and then to 8-character file name limits, portra~1 that folder

[cinder karma]

I hate you

Jkjkjk

[tranquil grove]

more memory for the actual programs, it's important

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #6564 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1406412056457908264)

[devout vault]

(Since you cowards didn't quote it fast enough)

[cinder karma]

Smh

I have 78109408 kib total

51407314 kib used

[devout vault]

...with rider you can skip segments of code when debugging????

The button to the left of that one is run to cursor

So it's not the samee thing

And when I used skip, the variables weren't initialized

And yeah it can go backwards

I didn't know you could even do that with dotnet debugging

[lethal walrus]

does ~ in folder names not break things

[fleet wren]

that's how DOS truncate filenames

Example: TextFile.Mine.txt becomes TEXTFI~1.TXT (or TEXTFI~2.TXT, should TEXTFI~1.TXT already exist). ver +1.2.text becomes VER_12~1.TEX. .bashrc.swp becomes BASHRC~1.SWP

[tranquil grove]

also it doesn't, at least in windows; I use ~TEMP and stuff a lot to sort folders at the top

[fleet wren]

how did people live with this

[tranquil grove]

it was a mess but also way less people needed to look at folders at the time

or rather they could hold a lot fewer folders/files on a machine in the first place

[cinder karma]

My god

Pls

Pls don't hurt me

[devout vault]

...I don't think these ids should be this big

They should be 0

Unsure if that's what is actually the problem though

[cinder karma]

Can you set those into hex

[tranquil grove]

mashes keys until one is forbidden
these are the actual windows restrictions these days

[cinder karma]

The flags too

[devout vault]

It should be matching this, I think. Unless the C++ code intentionally changes some things

[cinder karma]

Interesting

[devout vault]

And this is just a native call

[cinder karma]

1E on both

The 82 at the start

[devout vault]

Yeah the ID is right

82 could be some sort of flag, I know there are some

Like certain bits used for certain things (I like component pairs are an example)

Hence why I'm unsure if it's actually a problem

[cinder karma]

It feels flaggy yeah

The src doesnt match at all

0xA is 0b1010 iirc

So only one bit is actually different

[devout vault]

There are technically defaults available to set for the query flags, which would have been combined into flags here.

There's no getter for this, and the variable isn't exposed in the native API even, but it looks like it should be 0 since it uses calloc and never sets it anywhere

[dusty pollen]

aka 10

[devout vault]

...wait I'm looking at different flags

uh what

[cinder karma]

Hush with your base 10 bias

[devout vault]

I don't think C arrays copy like this

Like what

[pliant snow]

They do, just dont go out of scope lol

[devout vault]

That's not copying the array that's copying the pointer 😛

https://github.com/SanderMertens/flecs/blob/master/src/query/validator.c#L1890

It modifies the pointer passed in which is used later

Unless one of those later calls is replacing it or something

...such as flecs_query_copy_arrays does

Very strange decision but okay

[pliant snow]

Exactly, just dont leave scope!

What could go wrong

[devout vault]

A confused casey spends way too much time figuring out why things are breaking, that's what

[safe dragon]

that's also a thing in visual studio...

[devout vault]

wat

I've never seen it when doing stardew stuff

[safe dragon]

just drag the arrow to where you want it to continue

[devout vault]

Huh

[pliant snow]

Does it skip, or does it fast forward to that point

[safe dragon]

should be an arrow in front of the line the breakpoint was at, you can drag that arrow to somewhere else in the code

skip

I've used it a fair bit to skip over code that'd persist something to the database or whatever

[devout vault]

The run to cursor thing is fast forward

The skip is skip

[safe dragon]

idk if there's a fast forward in visual studio beyond just setting a new breakpoint later and letting it continue

[devout vault]

There's definitely a run to cursor

Or used to be?

[safe dragon]

hrm

maybe

dragging the debug line arrow to a different line is definitely a skip

[devout vault]

Hmm

The way Rider does it is more discoverable (or I'm oblivious, which is very possible)

[safe dragon]

I'd never say visual studio is intuitive

[cinder karma]

Oh god

[cinder karma]

That is not what I would have guessed

Tbh

[devout vault]

So I gave up on the dotnet test stuff and just ran an actual program

Hey look, actual output from the native library

[cinder karma]

Can I grow an olive tree

[devout vault]

(This is the original test code, not mine)

...oh right, this was one of the breaking changes, wasn't it

Fun fact, it even calls that function in the very next line

[devout vault]

After much pain and looking at docs and examples and the native source code and comparisons with the C# binding and sorrow and other woes, I have figured it out the last failing test.

The C examples register prefabs as entities. The C# binding registered them as components (but only ones that were tied to a C# type).

Components are also entities in this ECS, which is why it mostly worked. However, when doing stuff with the "slots" feature as well, it caused a crash during cleanup (something to do with seemingly any sparse components).

So this line (and the next function): https://github.com/BeanCheeseBurrito/Flecs.NET/blob/9e9c05b190176385e068f5c5c3a7342d40e5950c/src/Flecs.NET/Core/World.cs#L2671
Needed changing to match the Entity<T>(...) functions. 🙃

This does technically mean that the prefab type itself can't have any fields on it though, which is probably a breaking change for the binding...

Should probably fix that, and I have an idea how, but it'd involve some small refactors on the binding and I don't feel like it's that important

[devout vault]

cries in git line ending handling

(temporary .gitattributes to force EOL=CRLF? Files cry about LF -> CRLF. EOL=LF? The same files cry about CRLF -> LF. I can't win)

(These were files generated from a script, not sure why they are in the repo but it isn't my project so can't just remove them)

[dusty pollen]

do they have both mixed in????

and do you have permission to run a script to check and fix that

[devout vault]

They must. I assume it's because the generator is like this, and the base source has them mixed or something

So I'm just doing git diff -w and going through it one by one...

wait does diff have an option to not show diffs

(Like just the files)

It does. Glorious

(I can check just the generated folder for the corresponding stuff I actually changed now)

[devout vault]

...apparently the files I did commit still had messed up line endings

Like the entire file is in the diff -_-

Seriously, I didn't change that much

Oh, and my site has been saved and is back up. https://spacechase0.com/

If anyone wants some vintage MC mods, now they're available again 😛

[dusty pollen]

hey look, you also have games you made back in 2010 I must say, yours look significantly better than mine does lmao

[devout vault]

One Day ™️ something new will be there… (or rather the corresponding page on the New Site ™️)

[safe dragon]

glad y'all make very important mods

[prisma flume]

Spenny is an institution.

[devout vault]

Some mods (like SpaceCore and JA) are unimportant. Others are pillars holding up the entire modding community, like Spenny.

[safe dragon]

very understandable

[crystal wren]

How does this mod rank in terms of importance? /j

[safe dragon]

crucial

[steel kraken]

Dangerously close to on-topic conversations

[rain apex]

But it has a cat

[safe dragon]

I'll allow it

[lethal walrus]

is undefined fps preferable to 0 fps i wonder https://github.com/katietheqt/curium

[devout vault]

[supple ether]

TIL how in works in c#

[lethal walrus]

is it the same way it works in js

[supple ether]

no

[lethal walrus]

ah

ooh its like ref

[supple ether]

you put it on method parameters like you do for out and ref, which I knew, I just didn't understand why anyone would ever use it

basically because it's a reference to a reference like out and ref, if the value is changed externally while the method is running, the method will know about it and be able to use the new value

[lethal walrus]

oh thats cool

[supple ether]

yeah, seems great for threaded work

[safe dragon]

or great to have some extremely confusing bugs

which I suppose is par for the course when it comes to threaded code

[cinder karma]

I thought it was for promising that you weren't gonna mutate the struct

So the compiler could avoid copying

And not for whatever for threaded

[safe dragon]

me too tbh

I've never seen it used anywhere before

[cinder karma]

Pathos uses it

Clearly it's meant for good and not evil

[safe dragon]

pathos' coding style gives me strong OOP vibes I don't like it

[cinder karma]

You're the first person to dislike pathos' coding style that I've heard say anything in this discord

[safe dragon]

I've also probably seen the least of it

[supple ether]

Pathos' code feels more maintainable than my code but idl if that's actually true

I just don't have the patience to do layers and layers of frameworking the way pathos does

[supple ether]

Well I think it does that to, though I'm not sure. It doesn't stop you from mutating reference types though

[safe dragon]

all I remember about it from when I looked at smapi code many years ago was seeing a lot of classes with almost nothing in them

[rain apex]

are those just the various interfaces

[rain apex]

i thought C# is OOP lands what do you do instead of OOP

i grumble about pathos code only when i have to put things in it and cannot slacc and just go static

[safe dragon]

seeing a lot of interfaces with only 1 implementation just makes me think of the many many hours I've wasted over my life implementating interfaces at work for classes that will literally never have more than 1 implementation as proven by like a decade of history with that never happening

like 80% of all the random files I had to make according to "best practices" served basically no purpose other than to satisfy some misunderstood design principle

I'm very much of the mindset that it's a waste of time to make interfaces ahead of time for a scenario you don't even know of

you're probably just going to write that interface with only your specific usecase in mind anyway then

[modest jewel]

Anyone use c++? Also hi and call me out if I'm off topic

[safe dragon]

ur in luck. This is the off topic channel so being off topic is exactly right

[modest jewel]

Just had to make sure lol

[safe dragon]

I haven't used C++ beyond a cursory glance

[modest jewel]

I want to make two UI libraries but uh.. C++ doesn't like me the most

[lethal walrus]

i use c++ in a context that i permenantly have 10+ errors from the IDE

[modest jewel]

Lol how

[lethal walrus]

vscode just really hates switch homebrew for some reason i have no idea how

compiles + runs fine though

[modest jewel]

Lol

[rain apex]

make 2 ui libraries

like do the low level window stuff yourself?

[modest jewel]

No on top of other window and stuff libraries.. on top of SDL2 and SFML3.1

[modest jewel]

Hell nah I'm too dumb for that lol maybe one day

[safe dragon]

damn not sdl3

[modest jewel]

Is sdl3 better?
The SDL2 one is bc the device it's for only supports SDL2.. maybe sdl3 tho

[safe dragon]

idk really. SDL3 is fairly new

just stick with SDL2 probably

[rain apex]

tbh this is still 1 level lower than "just use winform/avalonia/qt/gtk/etc"

[safe dragon]

don't use winforms plz

[modest jewel]

It's on Linux systems

[rain apex]

i have to do include path nonsense every time

[modest jewel]

*for

[safe dragon]

there's a lot to building one but idk much about it

[rain apex]

sounds fun

[safe dragon]

it's definitely easier to just use qt or gtk or whatever

[modest jewel]

Well one is Debian 12.. the other is on an embedded system

Anbernic RG35XXSP

[lethal walrus]

i've done it as well!

in one file it thinks snprintf doesn't exist, in another file with the same include it does exist

[safe dragon]

qt definitely works on embedded but unless someone already made a library for that system you'd probably have some work on your hands either way

[modest jewel]

Only SDL2 and open GL work

[lethal walrus]

is that running natively or under linux

[safe dragon]

much lower level then

[rain apex]

can u use dear imgui

[lethal walrus]

i've heard good things about imgui

[modest jewel]

It doesn't have a bootloader it's a custom firmware that boots itself

Linux arm64

The firmware is called muOS

I will

*search up imgui tho

It actually might work I'll have to check it out more

Only problem is my computer doesn't have internet right now

Can't download new libraries

[lethal walrus]

i read those in the wrong order and i thought you were so limited on the console you couldn't use any libraries

[regal ingot]

I agree with Crumble; some of Pathos' code is definitely more complicated than it needs to be. I'd describe it as "Enterprise Architect" style rather than just "OOP", but I think it basically comes down to the same underlying "complaint".
But it works for him and it's almost always well documented, so I respect his preferences and try to match the style if I have anything to contribute to his codebase.

[pliant snow]

I've used muOS

Actually I have a RG35XXSP

[worn remnant]

i have two slightly older anbernic models. i have not tinkered with them as much as planned

[wet tendon]

holy heck c# has lifetimes

not explicit lifetime annotations but you can put references in structs thats crazy

ref structs with ref fields

waow thats wild

so ReadOnlySpan<T>/Span<T> really is just &[T]/&mut [T] but without the aliasing guarantees

i see why people say that you can write high performance c# code, but it must be such a huge pain

[devout vault]

This sorta thing is kinda why I like the concept of const methods/references in C++ (even if in practice they can be such a pain sometimes)

[devout vault]

Honestly I feel like Pathos abstracts things too much sometimes. But I'd rather than have that than the mess that is JA (for example)

The abstractions are probably good for maintability, but definitely not as great for a first time user understanding the codebase

[cinder karma]

JA is fine

[devout vault]

(This is one of the things I don't like, yeah)

[devout vault]

Have you forgotten the ID management code pre-1.6

[devout vault]

I haven't used it seriously since before C++14 was really a usable thing, but I have touched it a little recently.

[cinder karma]

Casey,

I spent the bulk of a week two weeks ago arguing with some stupid tcl script that for the love of God was not releasing nodes correctly

But only some of the time

[devout vault]

That sounds painful

Non-deterministic bugs are a nightmare

glances at the C#-to-java thing I stuffed under the bed

C++ build system stuff - especially in a cross platform way - still seems like a huge pain when I touched it recently

Like, sure, I'm using cmake, but I why can't I say "everything in this folder should be automatically included as a source file"

(I think you technically can but it's really bad practice, or something?)

Like I'm putting my platform specific code in another folder, and if that's not enough I can just #ifdef. Why

I don't need to put any specific files in a csproj

I can exclude (even conditionally!) stuff

But I don't have to

Heck, even with the older style csproj, I could edit it to have **/*.cs as the source file listing and be done with it

[crystal wren]

I think this is a bleedthrough from Pathos's backend web stuff.

[devout vault]

Probably

Or other "coding for a project with more than a few programmers" practices

[lethal walrus]

i'm glad you're on cmake now

[devout vault]

Why

Why do you wish me suffering

[lethal walrus]

well it's better than codeblocks

[devout vault]

I mean, I suppose

I haven't used that in over a decade

[crystal wren]

Does that even have its own build system?

[lethal walrus]

7 years

[devout vault]

Yeah

It's part of the project file

Though it can use makefiles

[crystal wren]

I haven't used it since Dev-C++ was relevant.

[devout vault]

(Or it could back then)

I remember using dev-c++

[lethal walrus]

quite the gap

[devout vault]

Did

Did you fork one of my C++ libraries

[lethal walrus]

just the tbin one

felt like it

[devout vault]

Ah

That makes a bit more sense I guess

I was thinking like the xml parser or zip file reader

I was like "why"

[lethal walrus]

tbh it's a much nicer reference implementation than tiled, less qt stuff

[pliant snow]

I personally enjoy cherry picking your changes from unrelated projects

[cinder karma]

Cargo

[devout vault]

I mean, I did the tiled one too

[lethal walrus]

oh i know

[devout vault]

(I made the C++ library first, and then jammed it into the tiled one)

[dusty pollen]

aaaaaaaaa I have an entire degree in this being aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[devout vault]

(I assume it's been changed a bunch by now though)

[lethal walrus]

but that has to work within tiled so it's in its format and qt stuff etc

[devout vault]

Does it still have fake sfml

[lethal walrus]

oh no

no it just doesn't use vector2 anymore

sizes are two separate numbers

[devout vault]

Wow, fake SFML is gone? https://github.com/spacechase0/tiled/blob/tbin/src/plugins/tbin/tbin/FakeSfml.hpp

Tragic 😔

[lethal walrus]

i had to install sfml for the vector2 :(

[devout vault]

I mean

Could you have just used glm or something

Find/replace sf::Vector2 with your vector2 of choice

[lethal walrus]

yes I could

[devout vault]

Even a custom one, it only needs a few operator overloads most likely

[lethal walrus]

however

i wanted it to compile first

[devout vault]

Ah

[cinder karma]

Oh it was deterministic which nodes

Just not all of them

[lethal walrus]

wrote my own terrible vector2

no operator overloads needed surprisingly

just an empty constructor

[devout vault]

My past self knew you would need to do this

(Apparently)

[lethal walrus]

oh no

why do you use sfml int32s

[devout vault]

...why is that bad

The idea was probably that the file format is always the same size data types

[lethal walrus]

lots of things to replace

and for some reason it doesnt work

[devout vault]

you could steal fake sfml

[lethal walrus]

hmmm

I could

typedef unsigned char Uint8;

this feels wrong to be a char

[devout vault]

char is guaranteed to be the smallest addressable unit of memory I believe

[lethal walrus]

is there really not a builtin uint8?

[devout vault]

Does C++ have a proper byte type now?

I believe back then any builtins were compiler specific

[lethal walrus]

i was able to use uint8_t for badpng

[lethal walrus]

ah

[devout vault]

Looks like in 2.x that is only done for the 64 bit types

But in 1.x it was this

[cinder karma]

The fuck

[devout vault]

...yeah

[cinder karma]

Please tell me it's built into the language now

I don't care if it is a lie

Please tell me it is

[devout vault]

Yeah, since C++11

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/integer.html

No lies needed 🙂

(For reference, C++XY means XY is the last two digits of the year for that standard. So C++11 was the standard finalized for 2011)

C++11 started the three year cycle they have for new standards now

[final trail]

[devout vault]

The previous one was C++03, but that one only had one new thing according to wikipedia

C++11 was huge

[modest jewel]

I can't use x11 (aka SFML) and no package manager.. I just use a chroot for packages that I copy from my computer

[devout vault]

I thought SFML had an option to use wayland

Or did that never get merged into an actual release

Never got merged it seems

Issue was closed in 2016, though there was some people saying it should be reconsidered within the past few months

https://github.com/SFML/SFML/issues/1082

[modest jewel]

What's wayland?

[devout vault]

The more current windowing system used by most linux things these days

I believe

[safe dragon]

most is not really true but most modern Linux things yes

[devout vault]

I meant modern yeah

[safe dragon]

it's the successor to x11/xorg essentially

[modest jewel]

muOS probably doesn't use it then? Sounds cool though

[safe dragon]

strictly speaking Wayland is just a large list of protocols and specifications

[modest jewel]

Technically I might be able to run a (small) x11 server.. but with only a gig of ram

Ohh yeah my Debian 12 says "plasma (wayland)" after I put in my password after boot

[pliant snow]

I'm more surprised Debian is shipping a version of plasma that defaults to wayland

[modest jewel]

I'm pretty sure anyways

[pliant snow]

I would look at what other muOS apps are doing, I imagine just using SDL and that's it

[modest jewel]

Only a couple are compiled, the rest use lua and love

[pliant snow]

Oh really, interesting

[modest jewel]

Like most of them

But I'd rather learn cpp than lua and love

Or c.. but not c

[pliant snow]

Just for the sake of learning it?

[modest jewel]

I guess.. plus c++ can probably do more and is more my style vs lua

And I say that coming from python lol

[wet tendon]

most des/wms should default to wayland if you're not using an nvidia gpu, shouldn't they?

[cinder karma]

https://hackaday.com/2025/08/17/recto-in-case-programming-isnt-hard-enough/

[weak junco]

I feel like this channel would be most likely to understand the relief i just felt (i accidentally deleted my save, but .git/objects survived somehow)

Maybe i shouldve just put all of my saves in one big git repo 🤔

[devout vault]

This reminds me of something I saw ages ago that abused C++ templates and operator overloading and stuff to make a monstrosity.

And by a monstrosity, I mean it was something like:

Rectangle rect( o==o
                |  |
                |  |
                |  |
                o==o );
rect.area(); // 12

(That's not close to the actual syntax I don't think, but was very much the spirit of what it was.)

And the worst part about it, was that it actually compiled.

[weak junco]

esolangs are fun

[devout vault]

Unfortunately, this was pure C++

[pliant snow]

TIL git fsck exists

[modest jewel]

SFML wildin

[supple ether]

That's something I've genuinely been wrestling with. I kinda want to make a really small game, but it seems like my options in that regard are basically lua or cpp and neither of those seems particularly appealing to work with

Maybe I just haven't seen enough of cpp to like it idk

Partly I'm just intimidated by it because I hear so much about build problems, linker errors, and template debugging and it just sounds Not Fun

[steel kraken]

For the lua runtimes you could write it in Typescript https://typescripttolua.github.io/ love2d, defold etc do have type declarations

knowing some lua is very useful to use it, but for large codebases its nice having good tooling, and Typescript has arguably the best tooling

[supple ether]

TS does offer type safety but it's still js-based

[steel kraken]

with tstl at no point is there actually javascript.
the typescript AST becomes Lua without a javascript intermediate step

[dusty pollen]

https://www.wired.com/story/meta-artificial-intelligence-chatbot-conversations/

🙃

[cyan shadow]

There's trouble over that internal report of theirs too

Methinks there'll be an investigation

If not in the US then definitely in the EU lmao, especially with how they've categorically stated that they don't wanna follow EU law

[dusty pollen]

but like seriously, this isn't even hidden or internal, it's a public "feature"

[cyan shadow]

Ye

[pliant snow]

This is a special @devout vault announcement
https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-direct-announced-for-tomorrow-focused-on-kirby-air-riders

[cyan shadow]

KORBY

Aquo may I have kirby pings too

[pliant snow]

This is a special @cyan shadow announcement
https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-direct-announced-for-tomorrow-focused-on-kirby-air-riders

[cyan shadow]

I meant next time you have kirby news!

[modest jewel]

Typescript huh

[safe dragon]

typescript 🌈

turning Javascript into something I tolerate

[devout vault]

Why not do a monogame thing or something. Trying to learn something new?

[pliant snow]

You misspelled Pico-8

[safe dragon]

for a genuinely small game

in every sense

[devout vault]

ITS HAPPENING. REMAIN CALM EVERYBODY. (I’m saying that to myself.)

The fact that there’s a direct dedicated to it is a really encouraging sign.

(I got pings about this on three different servers 😅 )

[pliant snow]

45 minutes long

Pico-8 just had a new update yesterday!

Built-in functions for rounded rectangles!

What a time to be alive

[safe dragon]

the future

Godot doesn't have that

I think in Godot when I tried out I just gave collision boxes a color and called it good enough

🙏

[pliant snow]

I still need to try out raylib

[devout vault]

I should probably get a switch 2 before tariffs impact the price a lot…

[safe dragon]

I should also try out raylib someday

[pliant snow]

Today

SDV game server jam

[safe dragon]

no... I'm on my way home and dead tired

[cinder karma]

I would like you to know that Taylor Swift announced a new album yesterday

And no one ping me lol

(Jkjkjkkjk pls don't you don't have to)

The swift hivemind knows instantaneous

[devout vault]

That hasn’t breached containment enough for me to hear about it before you mentioned it

[cinder karma]

I'm already planning to knit a sweater over it

[devout vault]

The masses are seeing the light

[safe dragon]

I had no idea so I couldn't tell you

[devout vault]

(If there's an open world single player campaign sort of thing like I've imagined and literally dreamed about, I will go feral)

[pliant snow]

all i want is like three city maps

will sakurai understand our pleas, or will it just be more racing content

[safe dragon]

what about a very good comprehensive level editor

[pliant snow]

what is this 2001

[supple ether]

Aren't the monogame all-in-one binaries kinda chonky? I may be mistaken but I seem to remember avoiding it because of that

[supple ether]

Oh right I forgot about pico8, I should try that

[devout vault]

How big is considered chonky to you? monogame.framework.desktopgl.3.8.1.303.nupkg inside my .nuget folder is 5 MB

Of course there's also the entire .net runtime for that...

[crystal wren]

I was gonna say, if by all in one you mean including .NET... yeah, that's a chonky thing.

Even stripped down, it's... a lot.

[devout vault]

When I was testing aot stuff recently (because I wanted to get it running on GC, RIP my hopes and dreams) a fairly minimal MG game program came out to 82 MB

[supple ether]

Yeah

Godot binaries are smaller than that I think

[crystal wren]

I'm not sure how, but that does sound about right based on my experimentation, yeah.

[devout vault]

Meanwhile my old C++ ludum dare game is a 26.4 MB zip

(Most of that being music)

[crystal wren]

Raylib time!

[devout vault]

But C++ can be suffering 😔

(Deleting the music from that zip brings it down to 4.7 MB)

[devout vault]

For my homebrew game thing, I was planning on making it so I could do most things in angelscript

Of course then I have to do all the bindings and stuff

But if you're worried about MB, that is a decent size it looks like

(And that's not including any addons, like the scriptbuilder)

...why is it so big when compiled?

[supple ether]

I've used the c# bindings for raylib actually and it was pretty fun. Maybe I should try the cpp version

[devout vault]

Oh, do you think raylib is pretty good?

I was talking about wondering about it the other day

[supple ether]

Oooo angelscript, I forgot that was a thing

[devout vault]

I forgot until like... a week ago

[supple ether]

I mostly used raylib for gui but yeah it was really straightforward

[devout vault]

I haven't used it since 2014 according to github

https://github.com/spacechase0/AngelScriptWrapper

Was basically trying to make registration and calling script stuff less painful

I'm kinda kitching to do a game jam but still unsure about using what

You basically "have" to have browser support these days, which makes monogame a bit difficult

I guess KNI is an alternative

[cinder karma]

Why do you need broker sellout for a game jam

.....

Browser support

[devout vault]

People don't want to download random exes

It used to be expected to just have a windows build instead, but these days browser stuff is the more typical baseline I believe

[supple ether]

It's really a shame

[crystal wren]

Web builds are something I've been wrestling with for so long now, and I end up coming back to Bevy being a sensible option over and over...

[devout vault]

Rust 🤢

[crystal wren]

Rust nice!

[devout vault]

hiss

[crystal wren]

Godot isn't even an option unless I'm willing to jump to GDScript.

[cinder karma]

Dh, you may be glad to know that on Friday I thought "hey I think ATC would be a fun game" and by Sunday I'm like "okay I have my memory layout planned out but also apparently I need to train a language model so this has turned into a five years and research time project so duck it no."

[devout vault]

or use 3.x

[crystal wren]

I'm pretty sure you just did an xkcd.

[devout vault]

We almost got atra into gamedev but didn't quite make it. Tragic 😔

[cinder karma]

I'm too dumb for that casey

[devout vault]

No you aren't

I'm sure you could easily learn it, if you wanted to

You're already used to modding a game, so you have some idea of concepts involved

[crystal wren]

If I have even the slightest of chances of pulling off making a game, Atra can do it with zero doubt.

[cinder karma]

(And nothing of value was lost so it's fine 😛 )

[cinder karma]

I read xkcd!

Anyways. I've moved on to frost tolerant trees and also knitting Taylor Swift sweaters

....to be clear, knitting sweaters themed on Taylor Swift songs

[lethal walrus]

for the colour songs do you just have a solid colour /genq

[dusty pollen]

air traffic control? language model?

[devout vault]

I think the language model is for spoken commands for an air traffic control game

Like you physically speak commands and the game interprets them

Or at least that’s what I gathered from recent conversations

[cinder karma]

I really should learn zig, says non-programmer who has no reason to learn zig except the cool factor

Well.

[devout vault]

I technically used it recently

Editing this file https://github.com/BeanCheeseBurrito/Flecs.NET/blob/main/src/Flecs.NET.Native/build.zig

[cinder karma]

Is it fun?

[devout vault]

I didn't really have any specific thoughts about it one way or another

I didn't do much though - can't recall if I did anything other than adjust the file list

[dusty pollen]

atra this ended up on my youtube feed but it’s clearly for you

https://youtube.com/shorts/rw2OT6FAmOE

[cinder karma]

That's amazing

[cinder karma]

If you guys never see me again you know what happened

[devout vault]

...do we?

[steel kraken]

I have some spare phones I could have that running on 😛

[supple ether]

got lost in the yarn?

[safe dragon]

editing a zig file for a C# project that's mainly bindings for a C project

[crystal wren]

They seem like they really want people to stop using Windows, huh?

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/windows-11/microsoft-teases-windows-12-next-version-os-agentic-ai-ambient-computing-copilot

[dusty pollen]

considering that right now most of the time their BUTTONS can’t be trusted to actually do what I want them to do, I feel like the AI will be less about understanding MY intent and more about making sure I know that candy crush is available on the microsoft store

(I do, microsoft, I have to unpin it from the start menu every time I install this OS)

the amount of bloatware in windows 10 already annoys me so much

wdym my OS takes up 30GB and I can’t uninstall “VR headset tools” to try to reduce that. I don’t own a vr headset

[hushed raven]

Win Bloat is by far some of the worst I've ever seen, registry edits to remove AI bull is just overkill, let me just uninstall it dammit!

[cyan shadow]

...

Thesis hell could not end sooner so I can go ahead and put linux on this laptop

[steel kraken]

I'm not going to dismiss it until I try it, but anything important I would need to be running locally for latency and privacy reasons

it is kinda funny that they burned the cortana branding prior to ai being good enough that could have made it work

guess it didn't help that the cortana character did turn into the villian and try and takeover as well

I think on-device models that are good at tool calls could make for an interesting way to interact with the OS.
the classical pre-LLM voice assistants were fairly good at what would now be called tool calls, and the hype bubble around it is even larger so third parties might actually invest in it more this time

[dusty pollen]

yeah, how are people supposed to use this in enterprise settings? or is this a ploy to make people spend extra for enterprise windows because they'll make it almost impossible to disable tracking on the home edition

[steel kraken]

many businesses wont care too much as long as its part of their office365 tenant and their existing data sovreignty settings

tbh modern microsoft I haven't seen care too much about actually making money off consumer windows directly, but that might just a mix of me having pirated it like a decade ago and the license has just gone from one machine to the other, and taking free license keys from work programs

they will make money through the OEM's for laptops, and charge businesses/enterprises, but been fairly tame on consumers and piracy

[dusty pollen]

I mean you could use win10 completely free and you just couldn’t change the desktop background iirc

[dusty pollen]

but I do know a lot of businesses have way higher (often on-prem only) requirements than this for confidentiality

[grave meteor]

I HATE OFFICE STOP MAKING ME US AI

[lethal walrus]

wdym i love ai.exe always running

[lethal walrus]

no desktop background, blue accent colour, some group policy changes and a permanent watermark if you don't activate

[grave meteor]

bro it pmo so much bc im p anti ai i dont use it

[steel kraken]

not as mean as having an unlicensed windows server which will just forcably shutdown after 30 minutes or something

[grave meteor]

windows please let me delete copiolot

[steel kraken]

But think of the shareholders

[grave meteor]

no.

[pliant snow]

gather round my children, for the age of kirby begins anew

[cinder karma]

Have fun! Enjoy 💖

[pliant snow]

@devout vault whats the verdict

[devout vault]

Age of linux, but actually this time

[devout vault]

I'm disappointed.

THAT IT ISN'T OUT UNTIL NOVEMBER, WHAT THE HECK IT'S BEAUTIFUL

live casey reactions

[cinder karma]

November is pretty soon

[devout vault]

No it isn’t

I want this game yesterday

This is practically the end of the year!

[cinder karma]

Only two months +

[pliant snow]

I'm honestly a little surprised with it. There's lots of QoL changes, but honestly not a whole lot of brand new content

and I think they got rid of that third game mode

[cinder karma]

Ugh softbank put two billion into Intel

[devout vault]

He did say at the end that’s here a bunch they didn’t show.

Which, they didn’t show dragoon (or any legendaries), which is too iconic to not be in the game.

Plus that last clip with the spooky guy makes me think “story mode????”

Plus sakurai seems to often have secret unlockables they don’t talk about.

And like, I find it hard to believe they’d have less air ride courses than the original.

Tl;dr: I have hope

I wouldn’t be surprised if top ride wasn’t included though. RIP top ride

(Re:top ride, I made a meme yesterday saying “wouldn’t this be funny”)
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1265032655360098334/1407041129836445696/image.png?ex=68a5516a&is=68a3ffea&hm=39614473f4216cfaf861c09230a6c4a43e87d74debee3895c2f1ba65bcb3738f&

[pliant snow]

Yeah I wasn't sure what to make of that end teaser lol, I didn't recognize the edgelord character

[crystal wren]

@ivory shadow Framework 16? Maybe?

https://youtu.be/OZRG7Og61mw

[ivory shadow]

Who knows

[crystal wren]

They're trying their damndest to make it happen.

And I felt the ping worthwhile, sorry!

[ivory shadow]

But given the 13 diamonds rather than 16... I doubt it

[crystal wren]

...that is a good point.

It has to be the 16, though.

It’s been a very busy year at Framework, and we’re not done yet! We launched a new Framework Laptop 13 and two new product categories with Framework Laptop 12 and Framework Desktop. We’ve got one more big update for you, and you can tune into our YouTube channel August 26th at 8am PT to see what it is!

It'd be crazy to mention having launched a new 13, and then it be... another 13 related thing?

[cinder karma]

Is 13 a 13 inch laptop

[devout vault]

More game info/screenshots - if only I could read Japanese (or the translation on my phone would work right)

https://www.nintendo.com/jp/games/switch2/aaaba/index.html

[crystal wren]

To go with their 12 and 16, yes!

[cinder karma]

Dh, why framework over a cheap ass business laptop that's three years old

I feel like I like the idea of a repairable laptop in theory but in practice (a) soldering at that scale is a bitch (b) desktops exist and (c) when recessions arent happening we get plenty of random business laptops lol

[lethal walrus]

most of it you don't need to solder yourself

[crystal wren]

The big draw for me (coming from a second hand ThinkPad to a Framework 13) is the upgradability, and the fact that you can stick your previous perfectly capable board in a case and reuse it.

[cinder karma]

When I was in uni I dreamed of having a desktop and a teensy Chromebook I put Ubuntu on that would let me ssh

Into the desktop

[lethal walrus]

since they only sell the non-soldered parts

[cinder karma]

And that would be my laptop

Tbh a huge part of this is i don't think i need a laptop

At all

[crystal wren]

Yeah, that's why I only got the 13. I have a desktop for... well, anything intense.

[cyan shadow]

i want a steam deck and a 13 for light stuff tbh

at the same time.... what would i run affinity on

would it work on the 13?

under wine obv

[crystal wren]

The 13 does go up to some pretty nice performance, though.

[cyan shadow]

it's all a long term goal tbh

i will not be able to drop 2000 euros on electronics for at least a year

[crystal wren]

Like the last generation of 13 mainboard goes up to a Ryzen 7840U.

That's handling Affinity with zero issues... though under Linux, not a clue.

[safe dragon]

I use RawTherapee for my photos but I have affinity so I could try it

[cyan shadow]

bless

[crystal wren]

Last I checked it works best with/needs a special build of Wine, so I just never got around to fully trying it out.

[cyan shadow]

i use affinity for modpage crimes

[cinder karma]

I'm old. Gimp

[cyan shadow]

i use affinity on both my ipad and my laptop, so it syncs very nicely

[safe dragon]

alright lutris has a profile for affinity photo

let's see if this works

[crystal wren]

Wait, a pre-made profile or you just made one?

[safe dragon]

https://lutris.net/games/affinity-photo/

I did not make it

[crystal wren]

...oh shit. Trying this!

[cyan shadow]

AY

THAT MAKES THINGS EASIER

ty crumb

[safe dragon]

tf it's install .NET 3.5

I hope this isn't affinity photo 1 only

[lethal walrus]

the icon is affinity photo 2

[cyan shadow]

the picture in the embed does say 2

[safe dragon]

true...

surely affinity doesn't use .NET 3.5

oh huh

3.5 is not EOL

but it doesn't work on anything past Windows Vista

[crystal wren]

Okay, installing Affinity...

[safe dragon]

it's taking a fair while for me

[crystal wren]

I hope this works, because not having a good image editor has been a huge pain for me.

[safe dragon]

wtf now it's installing .NET 4.7.2

[cyan shadow]

i got affinity because of bestie

and it did not disappoint

[safe dragon]

how many .NETs u installing

[cyan shadow]

3.5 for the first edition 4.7.2 for the second, maybe?

[safe dragon]

maybe?

[crystal wren]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[cyan shadow]

crap

[safe dragon]

uh oh

maybe you already have stuff you tried to mess around with before that messed it up

I'm not having any errors during installation so far

using the newest .msix installer from their website

glad lutris put it in a folder labeled Games

Affinity Photo is my favorite game

[crystal wren]

Oh, I did not use the msix...

[cyan shadow]

https://affinity.liz.pet/

I'll most likely do it using this tbh

[rain apex]

What do u need to do and why is imagemagik insufficient

[cyan shadow]

(I bought the license and by god i will use it is the reason)

[safe dragon]

mortals don't know how to use imagemagick

[cyan shadow]

i'm not a mortal, i'm birb

[safe dragon]

same

still don't understand imagemagick beyond very basic operations

[crystal wren]

Okay, same problem with the msix. Welp. Quill's manual way might be good...

[safe dragon]

rough

mine's still installing

windows 6 confirmed

[cyan shadow]

Lmk how that goes! I'm already gonna have a learning curve ahead of me since I chose Endeavour as baby's first actual main Linux distro so I wanna know how this will be too

[crystal wren]

Holy hell, that guide points you to use a version of rum from GitLab... that is 7 years old.

[safe dragon]

let's hope it aged like wine

my installer is still running....

[cyan shadow]

Well it does say you can use bottles

[safe dragon]

after all that time

[cyan shadow]

It decided to eep

[devout vault]

Wait, does framework 13 have older/newer editions with different specs? Man, that’s what the number should be for!

(Yes, I’ve been assuming the framework 13 was their 13th gen this whole time. No, I didn’t put that much thought into said assumption)

[safe dragon]

the 13 stands for its size

it's the 13 inch

it has had many upgrades

but all compatible with the original 13 and buyable as modules

[cyan shadow]

Send help crumble
Uni intro weeks are upon us

I can hear Yves Berendse blaring in the distance

[safe dragon]

who the hell's that

oh it's that guy

[cyan shadow]

Terug in de tijd guy

[devout vault]

See, while that makes sense, that would’ve required me to actually think about things rather than assume it was the same as iPhone versions

[safe dragon]

I was confused why you already had uni intro week in may for a solid few minutes

till I realized it was august

[devout vault]

Wow, you’re really behind the time(s) huh

[safe dragon]

I am

uni intro is a hectic time

[devout vault]

You know I keep saying I need to stay on windows for gaming

But very few games I play back when I actually played stuff are windows only

And basically none have anti cheat or anything that would 100% keep it from being proton-able

[safe dragon]

would you believe me if I told you I have never heard this song in my life

[crystal wren]

Same for me! Playing with anti-cheat implies playing with random people, and random people spooky.

[cyan shadow]

No, because even if you don't voluntarily listen to it, people blare it over speakers all the time

[cinder karma]

(Fwiw, DH, my "buy a laptop fund" has $1k in it. It's had that $1k for five years.)

[devout vault]

Like I’m actually not sure what I use regularly that would require windows

[safe dragon]

it's been 700 years since I've heard a dutch song what is this

[cinder karma]

I've never seen a laptop i actually wanted

[cyan shadow]

I am starting to think this is a provincial difference

[devout vault]

I mean there are single player games with anticheat.

It’s just they all tend to be AAA, which I don’t tend to play (not counting Nintendo since their stuff isn’t on pc to begin with)

[pliant snow]

join the dark side

[cyan shadow]

... Where's my watch

There it is

[devout vault]

The closest to Linux I’ve used for actual pc purposes is Mac. Which has a lot of Unix stuff (if it isn’t Linux derivative outright? I don’t know either way)

[pliant snow]

its a BSD derivative

[cyan shadow]

Did you see that I'll be joining the dark side soon

Endeavour, no less

[safe dragon]

honestly I think it's more likely I'm just too much of a hermit to be exposed to it

[pliant snow]

Endeavor seems nice

[devout vault]

Is BSD Linux. I feel like we talked about it the other day during the ratlib/bgfxr conversation (because of the devil logo)

[cyan shadow]

Think you recommended it to me in the first place

[cyan shadow]

Fair enough

[devout vault]

I just don’t listen to music

[cyan shadow]

I live within screaming distance of a few loud pubs so

[marble jewel]

BSD and Linux are both Unix, but BSD is not Linux

[pliant snow]

No, BSD is the descendant of actual, original Unix. Linux was an original OS that was made to reflect the Unix specs

[cinder karma]

My god

[safe dragon]

the only time I've actually ever been in a pub was during my uni introduction

[cyan shadow]

I do go to pubs just not these ones

[devout vault]

You mean Unix and Linux aren’t synonyms?????????????? (/s)

[cinder karma]

What's a pub

[safe dragon]

unix and macos and bsd and linux and android are all the exact same operating ystem

[devout vault]

(“Um, ackchtually, it’s GNU/Linux”)

[pliant snow]

Are you getting a new machine?

[marble jewel]

And Windows too. Haven't you heard, Windows is Linux?

[lethal walrus]

(does the gnu in gnu/linux come from coreutils or is there more gnu things in "linux"?)

[devout vault]

I have no clue

[safe dragon]

WSL = Windows aS Linux

[cyan shadow]

No, my laptop is only a year old

[devout vault]

Partially because I don’t know what’s in coreutils

[pliant snow]

coreutils is a big part, but there's other elements as well

[devout vault]

I thought it was windows subsystem linux or something

[safe dragon]

yes

[cyan shadow]

I'm dual booting to start then I'll probably wipe the windows partition if I find that I can manage without

[safe dragon]

windows subsystem for linux

[pliant snow]

Even though it's a Linux subsystem for Windows

[marble jewel]

My Linux distro is Windows 11

[devout vault]

Oh, one of those weird acronyms that’s skips letters because nobody can stop them

[safe dragon]

yeah it's quite stupid

[devout vault]

This is why I doubted myself about it being what crumble just said 😛

If they’re gonna skip letters is an easy fix too

[cyan shadow]

See y'all later

[devout vault]

Window’s subsystem of Linux

[cyan shadow]

Keep your fingers crossed that I don't run into drunk uni association boys on the way to bestie's house

[safe dragon]

during uni intros?

good luck

[cyan shadow]

I have no choice

He invited me for chicken fried rice

[safe dragon]

the second uni intro day half my group was home with a hangover

[cyan shadow]

Lightweights

[safe dragon]

including one of the leads

[cyan shadow]

Our leads were just drinking hard seltzer the whole time tbh

That viper stuff

If they'd gotten drunk from that it would've been a miracle

Idk how they drank it tbh I tried a sip and it was disgusting

[devout vault]

Yeah you really don’t have any choice huh.

(I’ve never tried chicken fried rice, but I like ham fried rice, and chicken )

[safe dragon]

viper stuff...

people these days drinking poison

ok it'd be venom

[pliant snow]

yeah if you drink the whole snake its nutritious

[cinder karma]

What

[cyan shadow]

Chicken fried rice is yummy and he makes it really well

[pliant snow]

IF YOU DRINK THE WHOLE SNAKE ITS NUTRITIOUS

[safe dragon]

"Stop trying to my vipertje happen. It's not going to happen"

alright sorry I clicked one of the header links right there

shouldn't have done that

this website is very inspriing

[crystal wren]

Okay, the specific branch of that fork of Wine that the guide has you use doesn't build. There's a newer branch, affinity-photo2-wine10.12, which at least gets past the point the other one failed at. Still building, though.

[safe dragon]

2 of the 5 header links result in a 404

[devout vault]

I actually read the article now, instead of incredibly cursory skimming.

They want to focus on voice being a primary input method? Yeah, windows 12 will be when windows is dead to me

[safe dragon]

I vaguely remember seeing these cans somewhere at least...

[pliant snow]

why wait?

[marble jewel]

I'm trying to give CachyOS a real attempt at becoming my primary desktop

[safe dragon]

idk what CachyOS did but it went from a distro I'd never heard of to a distro people who've never used linux somehow all seemed to know about before me

[pliant snow]

It's another Arch fork i think all about being gamer

[safe dragon]

it doesn't mention gaming in its front page

just being optimized for speed

wake me up when they've got a CachyOS Dr460nized Gaming edition

[cyan shadow]

Eek

[cinder karma]

Matt, plz recommend me a Linux distro

All i do is check my email and my online bank accounts and also sometimes update my resume btw

[crystal wren]

The branch I mentioned has built successfully, though!

[marble jewel]

The only gaming aspect is their version targeting handheld devices like the Steam Deck or Rog Ally

[pliant snow]

Linux mint

[marble jewel]

Otherwise, their desktop is just a proper Arch derivative

[marble jewel]

Historically, I've just used Ubuntu because it's popular so a lot of documentation exists. Also, I run multiple Ubuntu servers. But I'm giving CachyOS a try to get into the world of Arch derivatives a bit.

I used PopOS as my desktop for awhile, but it ended up being more trouble than it's worth. OS updates were not very graceful (for me)

[cinder karma]

Yeah.

I used to be a Linux Mint but the updates are a bear

[pliant snow]

I stopped using ubuntu because every update would inevitably break something

[cinder karma]

Otoh Ubuntu has managed to fjck smth in the update process that has really bricked my linux partition

I'm thinking of making the jump to arch

As long as I make backups I'll be fine

[safe dragon]

I've still had the strange experience that arch has been the most stable distro I've ever used

[rain apex]

-# use arch btw

[marble jewel]

From what I gather, the sentiment about Ubuntu is that it's more beginner friendly (i.e. Windows users), while Arch is more DIY

[safe dragon]

the sentiment to start with ubuntu is rather old at this point tbh

[rain apex]

Idk it works fine and i like how i can use other people's pkgbuild by AUR

[safe dragon]

realistically these days it'd be linux mint if you want to stay within the ubuntu derivatives

[rain apex]

Such as aquova's

[pliant snow]

Ubuntu was the linux distro for many years, but about 5 years or go or so, has kinda fallen out of favor

[rain apex]

You can also use fedora if u r RHEL at work?

[marble jewel]

Yeah, I'm much more used to Debian-based distros, and they seem to be more well-supported by corporations than Arch. At least from what I've seen so far. A bunch of Arch that I've worked through so far is community supported. Not that it's a bad thing.

[crystal wren]

Of the more... friendly distros, I do like Fedora, honestly.

[safe dragon]

fedora package management annoys me a lot

[cinder karma]

Also realistically everything i do is in the brower so

Like. Seriously

[pliant snow]

we'll ignore that plasma just crashed as I was saying this

[rain apex]

My last work switched from centos to rocky 9 just b4 i abscond

They seem equally ok/5

[cinder karma]

We're on centos/redhat at work i think

[rain apex]

Honestly if u put KDE on a distro then i would literally not be able to tell the difference

[safe dragon]

arch with niri is where it's at

[pliant snow]

The only real differences are what package list youre using, how often they update, and what DE they come with by default

I am quite devoted to Arch now tho

[rain apex]

Is there a taylor swift linux

[pliant snow]

you can even install such software as the Stardrop SDV mod manager from an AUR script wow how neat

[rain apex]

Weapon to defeat hannah montana

[fleet wren]

I’m this close to switching to arch because of hyprland

[cinder karma]

(I've never used stardrop. Gasp!)

I hear it's good though

[fleet wren]

(they require the absolute latest flavors of wayland protocols/other libraries that ubuntu’s repo doesn’t provide)

[pliant snow]

half of my neovim plugins dont work on the version that ubuntu ships

[cinder karma]

I've never used neovim

I hear it's good though

[worn remnant]

if you are allowed to use linux For Work™ then you are probably best off with a debian/ubuntu derivative, since the terrible enterprise stuff you are likely to need (like Zoom) tends to have packages ready to go

[cinder karma]

(At work we just have the machines we're given.)

So windows 11 but most of the actual work is on redhat servers

[worn remnant]

outside of "generally low-pain support for running terrible software" i can't say i recommend the debianites, but i'm not sure i actually recommend any particular distro

[marble jewel]

As a newbie to Arch, do you all use Yay for installing AUR packages?

[rain apex]

I just git clone and makepkg -si

Allergic to gui

[marble jewel]

yay is a cli tool, at least from how I've been using it

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6569 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1407419287387373569)

[marble jewel]

I don't actually "install" anything by hand. I've gotten into the habit of scripting everything out and committing to my private repo so that I'm able to rebuild my exact environment from scratch.

[pliant snow]

I use paru rather than yay

but there's no real difference

[marble jewel]

Oh I haven't looked into that one yet. So it's just a user preference thing?

[pliant snow]

I just dont use go for anything else so I dont want it installed just to build yay lol

basically

[marble jewel]

I think I'm using a combination of pacman, yay, brew, cargo, pip, and npm to install just about everything I use

[pliant snow]

you're using brew on linux?

[marble jewel]

Yeah, and it works perfectly fine

I could probably simplify my cross-platform setup by using brew as much as I can

Since it handles all the differences for me. In my experience, for what it does support, it "just works" on MacOS and Ubuntu

[pliant snow]

you might want to look into nix, you probably could just use nix for absolutely everything

[marble jewel]

I have, but I'm a bit reluctant

It's funny, but I've found a few content creators who posted videos on why Nix is amazing, and a few of them have a follow-up video less than a year later with "Why I stopped using Nix"

[pliant snow]

me_irl

[safe dragon]

that happens a lot with a lot of linux stuff

[marble jewel]

I feel like me having basically a super .sh file is good enough for me

My script is a bunch of:

if ! command -v something &> /dev/null; then
  # Install instructions
fi

[pliant snow]

I played around with a custom PKGBUILD file that would pull in everything I wanted, but it becomes a bit annoying if you want to ever change that list

Plus it turns out I don't actually want all my computers to have all the same software

[marble jewel]

It's also where I keep all of my config files too. So the config all belongs to the same repo, and are symlinked where they belong.

This way I can also have my apps configured as I want them if I ever need to build from scratch.

It's been fun translating everything to setup a debian distro to arch

[devout vault]

Because I’m already set up on windows 11.

If I set up again I might try it, though then I have to figure out a distribution.

(I have been getting awfully annoyed at windows reordering my taskbar every time the monitor goes off because of how DisplayPort (or hdmi?) works when it goes to sleep

[safe dragon]

I live on the edge and only recently actually started saving my dotfiles and still save nothing else

[devout vault]

…I guess I could dual boot.

or just get a framework, that’s what we do in this channel right?

[marble jewel]

This channel was brought to you by Framework Laptop

[safe dragon]

love my framework laptop

🙏

[marble jewel]

I don't plan to buy another laptop until there are some better ARM ones available

[safe dragon]

it runs runescape flawlessly on integrated graphics

that's all it needs to do

[crystal wren]

Maybe that's this big announcement... an ARM 13 mainboard.

[marble jewel]

If Linux were to truly take over my desktop experience, gaming would be a big consideration, but it looks like we've come very far in that regard, and most of the ones that don't play nicely have intrusive DRM which I'm fine protesting against those games anyway

[safe dragon]

no game I've actually wanted to play has not run on linux in years

proton is just way better than I feel it has any right to be

[rain apex]

Some sorta low level 3d witchcraft im sure

[devout vault]

Only 3D?

[rain apex]

There was one time when i had a bug on proton

And had to switch to windows to complete a quest

[marble jewel]

I've been spending more and more time in the Terminal over the last few months, and I've found the experience there is pretty seamless when I switch between different Linux distros, and even Windows/MacOS to an extent. So between that and a decent browser, I don't have very specific needs anymore. i.e. not as much tying me to one particular system.

[devout vault]

What are the “best” distros these days anyways? For someone (me) that doesn’t need windows-level “simplicity” and is tech savvy and used some Linux stuff before (though not on a deep level), but does like convenience

Maybe I could set up a dual boot later today

For fun

[marble jewel]

Maybe check with me in a couple months, and I'll say whether I recommend CachyOS 🙂 I'm sure others here have set opinions though

[devout vault]

I don’t know if I can do that with whatever nonsense windows 11 does with tpm and secure boot or whatever though

Clearly the answer is to write my own OS

[marble jewel]

CaseyOS

[devout vault]

<flashbacks to when I toyed around with that - before I actually understood pointers>

[devout vault]

No it has to be cat themed

[fleet wren]

maybe one of the arch derivatives where ppl installed stuff for you already

[marble jewel]

KittyOS

That's kind of what CachyOS out of the box to an extent

While still allowing you to be as hackery as you want

[fleet wren]

is it intentionally using the same catchphrase as rust

[devout vault]

Oh no

I can never use it then

I’m a rust hater, you see

let’s ignore that the Linux kernel has rust now (I think)

[worn remnant]

i would just pick a popular, well-supported one like ubuntu/debian/mint, arch, fedora or whatever that is nowadays, and try using it for a while without thinking too hard about which one is the best. maybe it will be great for you, or maybe you'll identify something you don't like and you can approach the bewildering array of distros with more of a goal in mind down the road

[fleet wren]

what’s wrong with blazingly fast performance, fearless concurrency, and zero cost abstractions

[devout vault]

But see I’m notoriously lazy (<insert wanted poster>) and don’t want to do another setup later

[fleet wren]

any other catchphrases I’m missing

[devout vault]

“Zero cost” besides your sanity

[worn remnant]

they're all sort of fundamentally interchangeable (within reason), so the choice doesn't matter too much unless you are a real dumbass like me

[devout vault]

I mean…

[fleet wren]

or if you use hyprland in which case your only choice is arch or nix

[marble jewel]

With Linux setting it up is half the fun

[devout vault]

I don’t know what that is

[rain apex]

Selph's cursed tiling window manager

[devout vault]

I thought that was “avoiding Microsoft bloat”.

Or is that just the other half

[rain apex]

I can't brain into those

[fleet wren]

<#programmers-off-topic message> feast your eyes

[devout vault]

Honestly, if there’s a (normal style) window manager that doesn’t reorganize my task bar every time my monitor goes to sleep because the idiot who designed DisplayPort meant that should disconnect that monitor, that would make it mighty tempting

The windows usually go back to the correct monitor, but the ordering is completely scrambled

[crystal wren]

(KDE defintiely doesn't... I think anything Linux doesn't, now I think about it. I think that's mostly a Windows thing.)

[rain apex]

Why does windows do that

I don't remember win10 doing that

[lethal walrus]

win10 just deletes my task bar on my second monitor if i turn it off

[supple ether]

🚀 🚀 🚀

[lethal walrus]

and i need to turn it off and on in settings, but it doesn't reorder

[devout vault]

If I ever need rust catchphrases/emojis, I’ll just go to the memory safe memory exploits library

[supple ether]

I love that library, it's so funny

[devout vault]

…good point.

On the other hand.

Instead of setting up Linux, I could keep pretending I’ll actually make a game jam game for sure this time

[rain apex]

But it's the year of the linux desktop

[safe dragon]

I don't even have a taskbar in the sense you mention so

[marble jewel]

The real Linux are the friends you made along the way

[supple ether]

Isn't that kind of what FOSS code is? Lol

[marble jewel]

Alternatively - casey didn't even need Linux, because it turns out Linux was within her all along

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6570 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1407426963853017109)

[cinder karma]

Your game jam game will be great, casey!

https://www.economist.com/britain/2025/08/12/britain-is-a-global-gaming-superpower?utm_campaign=a.io&utm_medium=audio.podcast.np&utm_source=theintelligence&utm_content=discovery.content.anonymous.tr_shownotes_na-na_article&utm_term=sa.listeners

[marble jewel]

Ew, paygated site

[worn remnant]

ew, utm turds in a URL

[lethal walrus]

does this count as piracy or archival https://archive.today/Tp1AF (archived version without the wall)

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6571 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1407425195198648494)

[cinder karma]

I associate that emoji with gamestop

And 🫡 with "I'm resigning from Twitter"

[pliant snow]

Petition junimo to let me add url cleaning to governor

[lethal walrus]

wouldn't that be more of bouncer's job

[devout vault]

Brb getting a pacemaker or something that runs linux /s

[devout vault]

Only if it gets made!

[cinder karma]

I really need to set up my linux partition

[cinder karma]

It'll be great regardless!

[devout vault]

@ junimos hey

[cinder karma]

I'm surprised how many video games I dont recognize that great Britain makes

Tbh

[marble jewel]

I'm surprised in this day and age how software still originates from a particular location

[cinder karma]

This weekend should atra

1. Figure out the laptop situation
2. Catch up on sleep
3. Sourdough at last
4. Start dyeing yarn

[marble jewel]

Apparently typing on a keyboard in front of a screen in a specific office makes a difference

[worn remnant]

3 3 3 3 3

[devout vault]

"this game was made in X!"
-# 75% of the team were remote contractors from 12 other countries

[supple ether]

✨ Tax cuts ✨

[cinder karma]

No votes for 2?

[devout vault]

(I assumed nothing is that extreme, exaggerating for comedic effect is funny)

[worn remnant]

i voted for 3 five times. fight me (do not fight me)

[devout vault]

I definitely vote for 2

Might be biased because of my dream recall though

If 2 isn't an option I'd say 4 since that sounds more fun

[marble jewel]

I've been doing sourdough for the last 2-3 months. My first few weeks were disasters, but I've actually gotten decent results lately.

One of the first things I tried doing were sourdough english muffins, and they turned out as rubbery rocks.

[devout vault]

<insert game changer "keep sourdough starter alive for a year" clip>

[worn remnant]

i'm at somewhere around 10 years, although my current starter is only about 8. i use it for our regular sandwich/toast bread, pizza, and (as of fairly recently) bagels, and occasionally for weird stuff i feel like trying

[marble jewel]

I'd like to get one of those fancy bread makers, but my kitchen counter space is lacking

[devout vault]

(I'd put it here but I just watched it and it has a passing mention of the big nsfw act (sounds crazy, is more reasonable in context) which probably means I shouldn't link it on this server)

[marble jewel]

I've mostly used my sourdough starter to make pizza dough

[devout vault]

Pizza? Is it like a flatbread crust sort of thing? Because I didn't know you could use sourdough for pizza dough

[devout vault]

My parents have (or had?) one, but just put it in the below counter cabinets like several other less used kitchen devices

[marble jewel]

This was my pizza dough from a few weeks ago

It was so bubbly and active, and it turned out great

[worn remnant]

pizza napoletana, more or less, although we just use a conventional home oven which is not hot enough so please don't snitch on me to any italian grandmothers

[cyan shadow]

I survived biking through hordes of drunk teenagers

past them, rather