programmers-off-topic

[safe dragon]

it's supported by everything

as of last year

[supple ether]

I saw it as a proposal but I didn't think it would be adopted so quickly

[safe dragon]

I've used it quite a lot lately

the need for it was high tbh

[supple ether]

Yeah it was a very common page element

[safe dragon]

it comes with the niceties of responding to clicking outside of it or pressing escape

if you want it to

[supple ether]

And also easier to disable if pages are abusing it

[safe dragon]

yeah

don't even have to center it cause it does that by default

the future

[lethal walrus]

that is a horrifying thing to see in my github explore page

(https://github.com/turbio/bfcc)

[safe dragon]

I'd be more interested in it compiling brainfuck to llvm ir

I want optimized brainfuck

[cinder karma]

What's backlogged

[safe dragon]

website for tracking the games you're playing/played

like letterboxd is for movies

[cinder karma]

Can we get that for books

[fleet wren]

there's probably at least 5 sites for that already

goodreads is the most popular

speaking of books I'm now 20% of the way through House of Leaves and ran into ||The Minotaur|| for the first time. this should be exciting

[supple ether]

apache is terrible, I am very tempted to just wipe the whole server and use caddy instead

[supple ether]

on goodreads I have to read terrible opinions from illiterati though

[pliant snow]

caddy is very nice

[lethal walrus]

i've been meaning to not use apache but it does work good enough

[supple ether]

I was trying to install copyparty and add it as a subdomain and suddenly I remembered how awful it was to fuck around with apache config files

I spent hours setting up https last time

It would've been even worse if I hadn't been able to quick-edit over ssh

[dusty pollen]

the ultimate downfall of all of these review websites is that it turns out they're largely populated by human users

and being (allegedly) a human user myself, I can confirm that we are terrible at group consensus

[lethal walrus]

isn't it just

• a2enmod the ssl module
• hello i would like my ssl cert please
• add two lines to config
• probably change listening port to 443
• restart apache

[supple ether]

In theory yes

[dusty pollen]

npx simple-http-server. done /j

(but also I have absolutely used that in the past)

[lethal walrus]

i personally prefer npx serve or python3 -m http.server

[pliant snow]

Oh yeah, caddy is literally three lines to set up the reverse proxy and get https workin

[supple ether]

In practice, the ssl module had other dependencies and kept running into configuration errors, and it was not super clear what all needed doing. The official manual didn't mention the problems I was having at all, and various online sources disagreed with each other

[red crest]

caddy my beloved

[safe dragon]

I'll be real I don't actually understand ssl certificates

[lethal walrus]

which part

the signing by higher authorities, the concept of asymmetric encryption?

[safe dragon]

what is it actually protecting against? it's extremely easy to get an ssl certificate regardless of whether the website is trustworthy or not

[lethal walrus]

the point is that only the website owner can get the cert

[safe dragon]

so it's to prevent someone else from trying to impersonate your domain or something?

[lethal walrus]

or decrypt the traffic

so unless:

• a certificate authority (e.g. let's encrypt, cloudflare, google, etc)'s private key to prove they made the certificate is breached OR they have intentionally installed a malicious certificate authority's public key (e.g. job/school does filtering on https traffic and they force you to install some software)
  AND
• somehow the domain is pointing to a different server (ip routing messed up, country doing it, dns provider breach, someone manually changing their dns settings, etc)
  the data will be only decryptable by your server, and if the user ignores their browsers warnings only then it's bad

[safe dragon]

hmm ok that makes sense

[lethal walrus]

and the responses are encrypted too, since aside from the initial handshake it's not actually asymmetric, that's just to decide on a shared secret and then use a symmetric algorithm (aes, etc)

[safe dragon]

I had never really connected the fact that the encryption part of https had anything to do with the certificates

[lethal walrus]

ah

[safe dragon]

I'll have to figure out ssl certificates again some time in the near future when I set up this website

[lethal walrus]

if you're going via cloudflare they provide one for cloudflare -> user, and you can generate ones to encrypt the traffic from your server -> cloudflare

[safe dragon]

oh no I would be murdered in the streets if it touched a cloud service

[lethal walrus]

oh this is your work thing again

[safe dragon]

yeah

[lethal walrus]

is this going on the public internet

[safe dragon]

the company has its own certificate store or whatever it's called

no

[lethal walrus]

ah

tbh you probably don't need ssl then, if it's not being exposed

[safe dragon]

I mean you do cause stuff like entra authentication is literally just not allowed from an http connection

[lethal walrus]

ohh true

[safe dragon]

I mean it allows localhost

that's it tho as far as http connections go

I'll figure it out I'm sure

it's just an annoying thing I don't want to have to think about but have to

I want to just hand over my code to someone else who does the server stuff

[lethal walrus]

fwiw if you do have your own CA that's installed on all the clients afaik it's just one openssl command to generate the certificates

and then you can just use those in any normal https server

[safe dragon]

they're windows servers so I don't think it's openssl

I guess openssl does exist on windows

pretty sure it mostly has its own certificate system tho

[lethal walrus]

still the same cert format

[safe dragon]

it's just another step above other stuff necessary to set up a release pipeline

all stuff I've just never really had to do before

I can figure it out for hobby stuff but that's all very simple... and linux

[lethal walrus]

don't forget you'll have to redo the ssl cert in anywhere from a few months to a few decades

[safe dragon]

yeah they just got new ones so I'm safe for a while

I'll have to look into nodejs hosting on windows servers

all I know is IIS

and saying I "know" iis isn't even really true

it's just extremely easy with .NET projects

[lethal walrus]

you can always just do node server.js

whether that's best pratice.. ehh

[safe dragon]

yeah I mean but there's more to it since node is single threaded so you usually run multiple instances with a load balancer

[lethal walrus]

true

[safe dragon]

I know I'll figure it out I just don't look forward to it

it's funky. Like there's a thing called iis node to run a node server in IIS and it's owned by microsoft but it doesn't seem to get any updates whatsoever and the readme says it doesn't work on anything beyond windows server 2012

but on the other hand they claim it's used by microsoft azure

[safe dragon]

lmao

If you are in the (somewhat rare) situation of needing to host a Node.js app on a Windows server, the most common scenario seems to be using a reverse proxy. There are two ways to do this: 1) using iisnode or directly. We do not maintain these resources and recommend using Linux servers to host your Node.js apps.

this is straight from microsoft's own docs

I think I'll just try to get them to put this on a linux server instead

it's recommended by everyone and it's an environment I understand a lot better

[fleet wren]

common windows L /lh

[devout vault]

Was very confused why chu no longer had blacksmith. Really should update my mobile app at some point

[safe dragon]

perhaps

[pliant snow]

holy shit

my login greeter has been broken for months

and it looks like with this latest update it finally works again

Actually, I think they changed it to actually print out an error message instead of failing silently

I had a ~/.profile file with a single, invalid line in it that was causing shit to crash

this is great news

[cinder karma]

Login greeter?

[pliant snow]

ly in my case

but sddm was also broken

probably for the same reason

[dusty pollen]

uh I use some generic lightdm one iirc

[pliant snow]

I had to log in via just the TTY prompt, then immediately run a script in my home directory that would start the wayland shell

which like, was two extra button presses

but now im free

[crystal wren]

And you use the animated flames background, right?

[pliant snow]

I may use the new swirly color one

[lethal walrus]

im starting to see the appeal of [neo]vi[m]

[crystal wren]

I want to love it.

[safe dragon]

I only need the vim control scheme

[pliant snow]

Ah yes neovi

[pliant snow]

Supports lua scripting but not visual mode

[supple ether]

Vi is kinda nice actually I just keep forgetting less-used keyboard shortcuts

[cinder karma]

I use vim at work

[supple ether]

I pretty much only use it for ssh and git

[cinder karma]

We don't have proper ides

I usually give people nano for their svn/git editors

[devout vault]

I use vim for git only

I used to use it for a job I was too lazy to set up remote vscode for though

And during college, there was a Linux server we got accounts for to test our programs in the environment they would be graded on

[lethal walrus]

the vscode ssh server has always tanked the server's performance for me

[pliant snow]

I use vscode at work, but only for its debugger. I use neovim foe everything else

[devout vault]

There was definitely that problem occasionally

[narrow pond]

@supple ether yea, I am partly fueled by the fact that we've been navigating menu buttons with controllers since the beginning of gaming so it shouldn't be this hard, but I have also read GMS just makes it even harder.

I've been trying to wrap my head around the problem and what I've landed on is creating a cursor object to move around and "collide" with the buttons, but it's been a struggle every step of the way.

[supple ether]

The main issue IME with ui in gm is that you have to do everything yourself and there's no object hierarchy

[devout vault]

It’s not as hard if you don’t support mouse to begin with! /s

[dusty pollen]

as I keep saying, we need to go back to tuis

[supple ether]

Honestly I like it

[lethal walrus]

oh i love using react

(context: https://www.npmjs.com/package/ink)

[dusty pollen]

I am so sad now

[steel kraken]

tbh anything that hides the insanity of escape codes and all the jank hacks required to make that style of UI is a win

[pliant snow]

How Dare you say that

[supple ether]

since when does discord support colored text

[rain apex]

thats syntax highlighting

[fleet wren]

the ```ansi
house

doesn't work on mobile, but syntax colors don't work on mobile to start with

[devout vault]

What the heck, why does discord have proper console color code support

(I copied the text of your message and looked at it)

[pliant snow]

I think it's using some third party library that supports syntax highlighting on fucking everything

except, as people have noted, they refuse to add it to mobile

[steel kraken]

Getting IRC flashbacks (in a good way)

though those are more ANSI terminal colour codes rather than IRC

[steel kraken]

the reply UI also doesn't render it either

[rain apex]

lame

[safe dragon]

stop using mappers, use facet

*looks at facet... * mapper

[devout vault]

I don’t know what either of them are

[cinder karma]

The Best Way To Map Objects in .Net in 2024 https://share.google/JF6kVsK1cBb1o48pt

This is definitely 99x less interesting than i thought ngl

[devout vault]

Yeah I didn’t realize there was a special term for this

It’s like when I heard about “dynamic programming” in college. Like… it’s just caching, why do we need fancy lingo

And why are we calling it memoization. Like, what?????

[pliant snow]

wow are you saying you dont memoize daily

[cinder karma]

Lol

@lru_cache my beloved

[devout vault]

I have literally never used the term, I just remember being confused why there’s a new term that means the same thing

Being self taught, there’s so many things I have “just coded” and then at college they might say “oh so you just florganbrineltooted the data”

[devout vault]

...don't tell @red crest I made up a word so soon after #1387907186713301072 message

[cinder karma]

Button - the melons in question

[dusty pollen]

oh thank god it’s not just me

also unrelated question casey. is there a particular reason to calculate frame durations for animations in terms of game ticks instead of ms? for uh, games in general, of course. not any particular game that would be on topic

[devout vault]

No, I think actual frame time is better. But for a fixed framerate game, ticks can be fine (especially if you're a lazy mod author cough )

[safe dragon]

it's clear y'all don't make web APIs smh

[devout vault]

Now if someone made a "higher FPS" mode for said game, then there might be problems 😛

[dusty pollen]

me: casey must have had a reason for doing it this way instead of the equally short ms way, but I think ms is more intuitive so I will tentatively use that until she inevitably tells me the very obvious thing I’m missing
casey:

[devout vault]

90% of casey's code design is "laziness" 😄

[dusty pollen]

hey, I’ve made a few! but why’s that

[devout vault]

Sometimes it's optimized for future laziness

[cinder karma]

Lol

https://github.com/atravita-mods/AtraBase/blob/d2ed899bfb952c9e9a54b55d411b3ae234c48109/AtraBase/Toolkit/ObjectOverlay.cs#L7

Although it would need to be <T, U> to be a mapper

Also crumble I'm in python

[devout vault]

Oh boy, linq expression nonsense

I've never bothered to learn those

[cinder karma]

It's fucking dictionaries all the way down

Aren't you glad I'm retired from modding

[devout vault]

No

[cinder karma]

Smh one day

Be happy for me. I'm freeeeeeeee.

[safe dragon]

damn it's kinda mapper

[devout vault]

Just means you need to go back and turn it into a facet or whatever

[safe dragon]

ok so a mapper is simply a method that takes the properties of 1 object of type A and then creates an object of type B where the values of object type A are mapped onto type B (based on property name usually)

[devout vault]

smh why are we making special names for simple things like that

[safe dragon]

they're used in APIs a lot to avoid exposing the entire internal/database model in your public facing api

[devout vault]

"Here, take a look at my combining matrix functor!"
looks inside
It adds numbers

[safe dragon]

those are haskell words

we don't do those

[devout vault]

What's a haskell

[cinder karma]

While you learned from the likes of leftpad

[devout vault]

(/s)

[safe dragon]

[cinder karma]

I built myself my own utilities. Badly

Wasting large amounts of my precious time that I could have spent making more money

[safe dragon]

for a long time the entire industry used the same mapping library (AutoMapper) which worked through reflection which came with a bunch of issues both in performance and compile time error checking

a lot of people started saying we should be writing the mappers manually

[devout vault]

Are we using sourcegen now

[safe dragon]

facet and mapperly are source generated mapping libraries yeah

I'd guess most of the industry is still using AutoMapper

cause enterprise moves slow

[cinder karma]

Huh, okay

[devout vault]

When does it not 😔

[cinder karma]

Which requires it to be known at compile time

[safe dragon]

well idk tbh. Automapper became paid a few months ago instead of free

and it's really easy to replace

[cinder karma]

Clearly

[safe dragon]

there's tons of other (better) mapping libraries that have almost identical APIs

[cinder karma]

My dumb ass did it with linq expressions in an afternoon

[safe dragon]

yeah though it obviously doesn't offer quite as much as the libraries do..

[cinder karma]

Lol

[devout vault]

Sounds like atra needs to go back and improve it

[safe dragon]

definitely the right choice over just contributing to one of the existing offerings

[devout vault]

I meant as an excuse to get atra into modding adjacent stuff COUGH

[cinder karma]

Smh. I don't like atra's mods and don't think they were fun anyways smh

[lethal walrus]

why won't firefox let people use the local translation stuff :(
chrome is the only browser supporting it and that only seems to be via the AI integration

[cinder karma]

Also to peel the curtain back a little bit, I'm at the stage of my personal finance journey where I'm insanely worried about money for no good reason and keep on trying to go above a 75% savings rate and am starting to realize that I'll need to bring in more money for that. And I'm willing to do it.

I want to buy a house and keep my 1yr emergency fund and build up a house repair fund and keep a good portion of my net worth in stocks anddddd

[pliant snow]

Is the firefox translation not local?

[safe dragon]

75% savings rate...

mozilla seems to claim the opposite

that it stays local with theirs and not others'

[safe dragon]

honestly at this point it sounds like a financial trauma

50% savings rate is already really impresive

[dusty pollen]

and watching/listening to too many finance people

[safe dragon]

finance people online are my worst enemy

[lethal walrus]

it is but a page can't programmatically call it

https://caniuse.com/?search=translator api

[safe dragon]

ah in that way

I would've actually had a use for this at one point at my old job

[lethal walrus]

so i can't do slightly cursed things like this without the google translate api

[safe dragon]

truly rough

[lethal walrus]

nothing like having to escape format strings in js because you're writing js with js

i do really enjoy writing tiny scripts to generate html and just avoiding css

i use neovim btw

[safe dragon]

always through javascript was too usable

should've written javascript with javascript

[lethal walrus]

i am

[safe dragon]

if only there were 750 million html templating libraries

[lethal walrus]

but i don't need one!

all i need to do is make a button to translate stolen mod names

[safe dragon]

can even use HTML web components now

[lethal walrus]

why would i need that

[dusty pollen]

ah I see what you’re doing

[lethal walrus]

i have a for loop

[dusty pollen]

unfortunately, english->zh translations don’t tend to be direct, and a literal translation back will often be nonsensical

[lethal walrus]

you aren't wrong

however

this works sometimes™ in my experience

[safe dragon]

as you're face with the translation "horse lagoon" and try to figure out what that might've been

oh wait opposite direction

[sand frost]

You could learn to speak mandarin 😛 I’m sure that would be an easy shortcut

[safe dragon]

uh 馬uh

[lethal walrus]

big time investment

[sand frost]

Easy hack

[sand frost]

It’s the shortcut They don’t want you to know about

[lethal walrus]

this is|| cjb item spawner||

[sand frost]

I guessed as much 😛

[lethal walrus]

horribly on topic now

[sand frost]

Honestly i think it’s impossible unless you already know what mods are out there

[lethal walrus]

what's impossible

[sand frost]

There might be NLP libraries to help find closest match given a dict of all title/description pairs for mods

[safe dragon]

I'll translate it from very scuffed japanese instead. Thing creation thing ??? soul need like thing, very !!! convenient

[lethal walrus]

ohh that

[sand frost]

Guessing what mod from google translate of a google translate programmatically

Like i think us humans who already know most mods are decent at this but idk how to automate

[lethal walrus]

mhm

[safe dragon]

just use ai

smh

[lethal walrus]

tbh ai mightn't be horrible at that

[safe dragon]

llms are good at translation yeah

almost like being a language model helps with language

[lethal walrus]

translation and the "is this double translation probably talking about this untranslated mod name"

[sand frost]

I was thinking like word2vec and closest vecs but I’ve never actually played with that

[safe dragon]

they're still bad compared to a native speaker but a lot more competent than the old-school machine translation

[sand frost]

I’m very old and behind the times

Don’t know any of this newfangled “LLM” stuff 😛

(Ok that’s a lie)
(But I am more knowledgeable about other ML stuff so it feels true)

[safe dragon]

it's actually LML and stands for Large Machine Learning

[lethal walrus]

github wdym

[safe dragon]

oh wait some people have arachnophobia

[lethal walrus]

oh it probably rounds it

[safe dragon]

Earth lore dropped (arachnophobia warning)

[sand frost]

It true, not too bad for me but understandable to hide

[sand frost]

Clearly Python and html are the same

[sand frost]

Also snek can be scary

[lethal walrus]

python, shell and ts = html

ofc

[sand frost]

“They’re the same picture” meme

[safe dragon]

why can't my browser run python

[lethal walrus]

it can

1. pyscript
2. wasm
3. (chrome only) window.ai("give an approximate result to this python code: ")

[safe dragon]

window.ai

[lethal walrus]

yes

it's a tiny gemini model

https://caniuse.com/?search=window.ai

[safe dragon]

funky

presumably this will never be a global standard then

wait

[lethal walrus]

probably not

although firefox did recently add some chatbot

[safe dragon]

it's not even in the link you sent

[lethal walrus]

wdym

oh

what

[safe dragon]

it just shows 3 things I'd kinda expect for a window api

[devout vault]

|| I just lost the game 😔 ||

[safe dragon]

[lethal walrus]

why did chrome publish nothing on this

doesnt say window.ai but its this https://developer.chrome.com/docs/ai/get-started

[steel kraken]

It is making some progress elsewhere though Firefox and Safari have technical questions as to how it should work further, but the model isn't part of the spec

It running Gemini is a chrome specific thing, Edge for example uses a Microsoft small language model instead.

https://github.com/webmachinelearning/prompt-api

[devout vault]

I'd rather the standard say "no LLMs allowed" 😔

[pliant snow]

only LLMs allowed

[devout vault]

[steel kraken]

I'm open to it being a thing as long as it stays on-device only

I was tempted to experiment with it for my monopoly game to make ai opponents, and I definitely don't want to actually pay for hosted models so using the local compute the browser has access to is ideal

[rain apex]

Small language models

Bring back jojai

[safe dragon]

medium language models

mlms

[lethal walrus]

massive language models

[lethal walrus]

i have discovered splitting in neovim this is so cool (censored the disgusting on-topic parts)

[safe dragon]

must've been very disgusting

ok it loaded

[cinder karma]

I've been using trainchinese!

[pliant snow]

slowly you shall adapt....

[steel kraken]

is there a reason to do it inside neovim as opposed to tmux/screen/whatever else doing it, or the terminal itself natively doing it

[dusty pollen]

you can pass buffers etc between them

there's a really fun vimdiff mode that uses it

[safe dragon]

it's generally better to split within neovim so the lsp is only running once instead of for each split in tmux

I believe there's some way to set it up so each open instance of neovim uses the same lsp server but that's more effort than just splitting within neovim

[pliant snow]

Yeah, the main reason is so that both buffers would have access to the same set of registers, macros, etc

Otherwise you have to always use the system clipboard register

[grave meteor]

remember when generative models did good.. that was cool

[safe dragon]

there are generative models that do good I suppose

[cinder karma]

Ugh, windows 10 phaseout

I don't wanna deal with it

My current laptop doesn't support windows 11

I do not want to buy a new machine

I broke my linux partition and forgot to fix jt

I'll have to pull data off it onto a spare drive and reformat the entire computer as arch linux, become even more insufferable

And blame Bill gates

[grave meteor]

Great news if you paid them money tho you get to have windows 10 longer!!

But then you have to pay the subscription ☠️

[pliant snow]

sounds like a great chance to refix the linux partition

[cinder karma]

I really should tbh

[rain apex]

Year of the linux desktop etc

How would they stop you from just keep using win10

[cinder karma]

They can't

But it'll get more insecure

And nothing ties me to windows

I can run everything i need on Linux because all I do with mg personal laptop is web based anyways

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3006280/Sheepherds/

Steam

Sheepherds!

Sheepherds! is a friendly and playful co-op game for up to four players.

You and your sheepdog buddies guide fluffy flocks through colorful flower fields to dye their wool…and make cool clothes for you and your friends.

Take your time and have fun barking, running and discovering magical places together— or take on challenges to win treat…

Release Date

Q4 2025

▶ Play video

[heavy dagger]

Title result: Sheepherds! on Steam

[cinder karma]

I'm amused

[safe dragon]

how are you of all people sharing an unreleased steam game

looks nice tho

reminds me a fair bit of Summerhill though that's a very different game ultimately https://store.steampowered.com/app/2324410/Summerhill/

Steam

Summerhill

Summerhill is a story-driven puzzle adventure game in which you play as a young shepherd and their dog. Rescue your sheep, bond with your faithful dog, and delve into the mysterious, long-forgotten world that lies beyond the borders of home.

From the BAFTA-nominated development team behind the critically acclaimed Alto’s Adventure series…

Release Date

To be announced

▶ Play video

[heavy dagger]

Title result: Summerhill on Steam

[safe dragon]

the booming genre of sheep herding games

[cinder karma]

(Knitting discord)

[devout vault]

Mod the dogs into cats and I'll play it with you

[safe dragon]

shepherd cats

[devout vault]

Not-so-regular reminder that this video exists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_MaJDK3VNE

[cinder karma]

(We can take bets on when I'll have the free time for anything(

[devout vault]

(If you really wanted to play it I'd play it with you without any mods, I just had to make it clear that cats are superior)

[cinder karma]

I'm not sure i actually want to play it as much as I thought its existence was amusing tbh

[dusty pollen]

do you think they would be any likelier to play it if it was released

[safe dragon]

no

unless atra saying they're not a gamer is as much of a lie as them saying they're not a programmer

[cinder karma]

(I say I'm not a professional programmer which is true.)

[crystal wren]

As much as I hate to give it to you, that is technically correct.

[dusty pollen]

is it?

[safe dragon]

smh suddenly adding extra qualifiers to escape by a technicality

[dusty pollen]

don't you program in your day job

[crystal wren]

Atra: But the day job is primarily other things, so technically no!

[safe dragon]

verilog is technically a hardware description language not a programming language

[dusty pollen]

[safe dragon]

god looking at verilog definitely feels like I'm transported back 40 years in language design

[dusty pollen]

inst inst

[safe dragon]

shoutout to transparent backgrounds

[dusty pollen]

why would a code screenshot have a transparent background

[safe dragon]

for the dark mode users

[safe dragon]

to mess with people

wait a screenshot has a transparent background?

actually

[dusty pollen]

well I assume that was originally a screenshot

[safe dragon]

how did someone take a screenshot of code with a transparent background

[dusty pollen]

but it's not MY screenshot

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6556 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1406332218179190984)

[cinder karma]

Begin end my nemesis

[safe dragon]

it's ok that's also in elixir and that came out in 2012

[dusty pollen]

this is why my lecturer once told me my pseudocode was too pythonic and therefore incorrect ig, it didn't use begin end

[cinder karma]

It's really subtle but my ide doesnt auto highlights on begin/emd

But does it for parens

[safe dragon]

sounds like it's probably an old regex based code highlighter

instead of the newer semantics based highlighting system

shoutout to treesitter

https://github.com/tree-sitter/tree-sitter-verilog

you're in luck

[cinder karma]

I mean yes I'm in vim

Not neovim

Vim

[safe dragon]

neovim does support treesitter

vim presumably does through some plugins

emacs got treesitter support back in 2023

tf

literally yesterday

(helix editor)

o

verilog support already existed

[cinder karma]

I'm in systemverilog or verilogams

[safe dragon]

I'm not putting in the mental energy to tell them apart

It extends the event-based simulator loops of Verilog/SystemVerilog/VHDL, by a continuous-time simulator, which solves the differential equations in analog-domain. Both domains are coupled: analog events can trigger digital actions and vice versa

math

[cinder karma]

Yes

[weak junco]

Poll time: Valid use of ternary or borderline shitpost material?

var targetPos = FA_PrioTreasure
    ? (Math.Abs(bar.treasurePosition - bar.bobberPosition) < bar.bobberBarHeight * Config.FA_DualTargetingBarPercentage
        ? (bar.treasurePosition + bar.bobberPosition) / 2 // Target both if they fit within a 10% margin of the fishing bar
        : bar.treasurePosition)                           // Otherwise, just go for the treasure
    : Math.Clamp( // When targeting the fish, try to predict its future position without overshooting its own target...
        bar.bobberPosition + bar.bobberSpeed * Config.FA_PredictLinearFrames,
        Math.Min(bar.bobberTargetPosition, bar.bobberPosition),
        Math.Max(bar.bobberTargetPosition, bar.bobberPosition) // ... and add an offset relative to the bars position and size to bias the bar towards the center and improve reactions to the most common moves
    ) + bar.bobberBarHeight * Config.FA_RelativeOffsetBarPercentage / 2 - ((bar.bobberPosition / BobberBar.bobberTrackHeight) * bar.bobberBarHeight * Config.FA_RelativeOffsetBarPercentage);

[dusty pollen]

imo once you start nesting them you should be using an if statement

but that's personal taste

[rain apex]

ngl i thought this was decompile nonsense at a glance

[weak junco]

I wish C# had Haskells where

Maybe its because im used to properly-indented nested ternaries that this makes more sense to me than if, but id definitely consider factoring some things out

[safe dragon]

Personally I'm an inline comment hater

[weak junco]

var targetPos = FA_PrioTreasure
    ? FA_CanDualTarget(bar) 
        ? (bar.treasurePosition + bar.bobberPosition) / 2 
        : bar.treasurePosition)
    : FA_PredictedBobberPos(bar) + FA_CenterBias(bar);

Moving all the lengthy math to well-named expression-bodied functions illustrates pretty well that the ternary is really not the issue imo

[weak junco]

Valid in this case because aint nobody got space for 216 columns

[dusty pollen]

I still think the nested ternary is the issue ngl

[safe dragon]

I'm not a nested ternary fan but at least in this formatting it's fairly readable

I hate typescript prettier's formatting of ternary expression where it puts the ? and : at the ends of the previous line when you do multiline instead of at the front like here... which to me makes it pretty much unreadable so I just make it an if statement

[weak junco]

Newlining the ?: makes all the difference, I know people who format it as

x = a ?
  b ?
    c :
  d :
e;

[safe dragon]

exactly what I was talking about as the default formatting of prettier for javascript

I hate it

[weak junco]

Yeah, thats horrible

[safe dragon]

it's not readable at all

[weak junco]

Here's hoping the oxc formatter is ready within the next year or so, so I can toss prettier in the trash for JS/TS

Btw, I never nest more than two levels of ternary unless it's a chain like:

v = a ? x
  : b ? y
  : c ? z
  : idk;

Tough that isnt technically deeper nesting

[rain apex]

why cant i make a const string[]

[weak junco]

Just use readonly

Const doesn't work with new

[safe dragon]

C# is a hater

it can be static readonly

[weak junco]

Yes

[rain apex]

:(

[weak junco]

I think the reason const doesnt work with new has to do with how its impossible to predict how much memory will be needed, or that it needs to be heap allocated

[rain apex]

i dont like how it's a different color

[weak junco]

😅

[rain apex]

but i also have actual runtime static readonly stuff so i cant just change the highlighting

[safe dragon]

clealry we need zig's comptime

practically arbitrary code executed at compile time instead of runtime

[cinder karma]

To be fair string[] if it's all known strings is a known amount of memory

Just embed that shit into your dll lol

[rain apex]

how does this solve my syntax highlighting problem

[safe dragon]

fork C#

[weak junco]

Would comptime even make sense without NativeAOT

[cinder karma]

Sure

[weak junco]

But yes, zig is based

[cinder karma]

Depends on what you can put into the il

Embedding strings into the dll is a thing in later c# iirc

[rain apex]

yea i dunno

[weak junco]

technically you could just have a delimiter seperated list as a const string and split it at runtime kekw

[rain apex]

you can do const char[] in C right

or ig it'd be a char*[] here

[weak junco]

Yes, because in C and its derivatives, arrays aren't reference types/objects

[cinder karma]

"If it's all known strings"

[weak junco]

Also yes

[safe dragon]

aren't arrays in C just a pointer to some memory address...

[weak junco]

Yes

[rain apex]

yea

[weak junco]

arr[1] in C is literally the same as writing *(arr+1)

[rain apex]

i write arr + i a lot

[weak junco]

You can even write 1[arr].....

[rain apex]

isnt that segfault like, nearly all the time

[cinder karma]

No, it's equivalents

But also like why

Anyways

[rain apex]

oh i see and yes terrible

[cinder karma]

C# sometimes doesnt let you do what I think should be easy

Like switching over const user defined structs

[safe dragon]

ok first we get rid of .NET

[cinder karma]

For example

(User defined structs with no non value type members)

It's all under thr desire for a user defined const capable tupe6

[weak junco]

I have a long history of saying "i love c#, but i hate .net", honestly its not as bad anymore tho

[weak junco]

Also, heres a full example ;D

[safe dragon]

this is one of the few things I know about C

this quirk

[weak junco]

I think its one of the reason why starting with C or C++ can be so valuable, you see weird things like this and go "i wonder why", so instead of always thinking about arrays in the abstract, you go in and find out that actually it's all pointer arithmetic, and that knowledge stays with you and offers a really solid foundation

meanwhile people keep recommending to start with python, smfh

[safe dragon]

I tend to just recommend people to start with whatever language makes sense for what they want to do with the skill

[weak junco]

Valid

[safe dragon]

I'm a python hater tho so I will never say it directly

[weak junco]

I'm a python hater

Yeah I also really dont like it. People do cool things with it sure, but but none of that comes from any quality of the language

[safe dragon]

personally I think people should at the very least start with some statically typed language

the funky ass stuff especially javascript just kinda shrugs off is not great for learning how to do things well

implicit type coercion between types that are nothing like each other is evil

[weak junco]

('b' + 'a' + + 'a' + 'a') // 'baNaNa'

[safe dragon]

I love bananas

[weak junco]

Compiler errors are such a good learning tool

unless it's c++ linker errors but yk

[safe dragon]

when you first need understand everything about a langauge to understand its error messages

haskell...

[weak junco]

It's rough 😅

[devout vault]

flashbacks to how bad C++ template errors were over a decade ago

[weak junco]

How dare you insult my favorite whitepaper

[safe dragon]

I remember haskell compiler errors being completely arcane nonsense to me when I first had to learn it in uni

[devout vault]

(Maybe they're still bad, I dunno)

[safe dragon]

as far as I know they're still bad

people still hate on them

[weak junco]

Yeah, some improvements with common errors but templates are kind of fundamentally unstable

There is one haskell feature I want in every language, and that's where

[safe dragon]

where is nice sometimes

[devout vault]

FL is nice sometimes, just not during the summer. /s

talking about strictly the weather

[weak junco]

Yeah, it lets you read a high level overview before going into specifics

And yes, I always define my functions lower than where I use them, thank you very much

[devout vault]

I've never heard of where in haskell

...or anything about stuff in haskell specifically, really

[weak junco]

ngl even among haskell users where is a criminally underutilized feature

The easiest way to describe it is that you define a temporary variable after you use it in the code, within the same expression

[cinder karma]

You what

[safe dragon]

the biggest thing I dislike about haskell is pointfree programming taken to an extreme where people try to rewrite functions purely to be able to omit input parameter names

[cinder karma]

Ugh that looks backward to me lol

[devout vault]

That sounds cursed

[safe dragon]

basically

z = x + y
where
  x = 3
  y = 7

[devout vault]

Hmm

[weak junco]

It's just a more declarative style of code reuse (and ofc deferring details)

[devout vault]

Could be worse but I still don't like it

[cinder karma]

Like the unless statement in ruby

[safe dragon]

it's nice sometimes

[cinder karma]

Have you guys seen how verilog structs are defined

Reminding me of that lol

[devout vault]

At the very least I'd want the declarations first

Definition is fine, we already do that for C/C++ functions

[devout vault]

But like a deferred x, y; or something would improve it a lot in my opinion

[weak junco]

I think where would be the best option to refactor this...

[weak junco]

... into this.

[cinder karma]

You also have the walrus operator in python

Which isn't actually related to the conversation

[devout vault]

I can sorta see the value in some situations, but I still would rather have seen the variable declared already

[weak junco]

It makes it clearer that the placeholders like FA_CanDualTarget won't be used again outside of the expression, unlike a local function.

[cinder karma]

I just love that it exists

[safe dragon]

I'll take anything over pointfree programming where you omit parameter names entirely

[devout vault]

I feel like I'm missing something, what's weird about this

[cinder karma]

The struct name being at the bottom

[safe dragon]

the name of the struct is at the end

[cinder karma]

Not the top

The bottom

[devout vault]

Yeah, that's why I can see some value. But I still would prefer something before the calculation itself

[cinder karma]

I hate it

[weak junco]

Same

[devout vault]

Kinda spitballing here but something more like

using int x = 3,
      int y = 7,
      z = x + y;

That's kinda terrible but was my first thought

[weak junco]

It's okay, but I think the benefit of getting the high level overview of the expression first is a lot greater than representing the actual evaluation order somewhat

[safe dragon]

especially in haskell where functional purity is valued a lot

[devout vault]

Or

using (int x, int y)
z = x + y
{
  x = 3
  y = 7
}

I'm fine with the definition being later, I just want the actual declarations beforehand

But hey, not my language 😛

[weak junco]

Sir, you have just invented the instant-eval inline function 😅

[cinder karma]

Or

{
let x =3;
let y=7;
x+y}

[devout vault]

it's ma'am I assume that's another haskell thing?

[weak junco]

JS example:
z = ((x, y) => x + y)(3, 7)

[devout vault]

Oh, so lambdas

[weak junco]

No, also sry, I default to Sir for the funnies

[devout vault]

But calling them immediately

[weak junco]

Yeah, usually you don't do it for this purpose though

[devout vault]

I'm just a hater, don't mind me

[cinder karma]

Dont worry

[weak junco]

Maybe an indicator that a "where" is coming later would be enough, rather than requiring declaring everything first

[devout vault]

It'd be an improvement but wouldn't make me not a hater, just less strongly of one

[cinder karma]

At least you're not writing

assign x_twos_complement[3:0] = x[3:0];
assign x_twos_complement[4] = x[4];

Repeatedly

Oh

x_twos_complement_reversed

At least I didnt need to gray code anything here lol that would be funny

[weak junco]

z = evaluate (x + y)
    with x = 3
         y = 7

[cinder karma]

x_twos_complement_reversed_gray

[weak junco]

Even just requiring the expression be in parens before the where would prime you to understand

[devout vault]

Can you shadow variables from the outer scope with this?

Like if I add x = 2, y = 4 before that, what would happen

[weak junco]

I dunno man, I'm just letting my inner PLTD nerd hang out

[cinder karma]

Shadowing would be useful tbh

Tbh I still prefer rust's just {} yourself an expression lol

[devout vault]

If it doesn't allow shadowing it'd also be fine, I just think about... what if I'm reading code and someone reused variable names, and I see the first line without the rest (like scrolling down in vim or something)

[weak junco]

I prefer compiler errors and proper namespacing over shadowing

If it was my language, id disallow it

[devout vault]

I think there are some cases where I like shadowing, but it's rare

Super rare, I can't remember the last time I used it

Maybe because C# is less than happy about that stuff

[cinder karma]

I tend to like shadowing especially for small throwaway variables

Which this is

C# has stricter shadowing rules

I don't like it in python (too loose)

[weak junco]

Shadowing is very common in Golang, because of all the ret, err := someFunc() stuff

[cinder karma]

Python scope is just awesome. And by awesome I mean awful

[devout vault]

These days I just make separate scopes instead (though that's kinda a different use case). Like

{
  int x = 3;
  int y = 5;
  doMath( x, y );
}
{
  int x = 7;
  int y = 9;
  doMath( x, y );
}

[weak junco]

Explicit scopes are nice

But, again, rare

[weak junco]

Reminds me of this talk

[cinder karma]

I also wish c# was better about redecorating variable names

[devout vault]

Re whatting, now?

[cinder karma]

Ie

str smth; ReadonlySpan<char> smth = smth.AsSpan()

I do this alll the time

Except the span has to be named differently in c#

[devout vault]

Ah

[cinder karma]

So it becomes smth and smthSpan

[devout vault]

I've never even thought about that. Yeah, that would be nice

[weak junco]

"Awesome: Extremely impressive or daunting, inspiring great admiration, apprehension, or fear."

[devout vault]

So many times I have variables like theData or actualData or rawData or ...

[cinder karma]

SmthInt

SmthParsed

I hate it

[weak junco]

I dont think I like this

[cinder karma]

Why not? If I don't need the previous variable anymore

[weak junco]

"redecorating" is supposed to be "redeclaring" right? Or is it about "type decorating", whatever the semantic implications of that are

[cinder karma]

I'm basically saying "okay I'm done with this being that type. Now I want this type."

Redeclaring yeah sorry

[safe dragon]

I think that's called shadowing

[weak junco]

Same-scope shadowing, you could call it

[cinder karma]

Shadowing is when you use the same name in a smaller scope

[safe dragon]

I suppose shadowing is for different scopes yeah

[weak junco]

I think you're just hiding the fact that you're working with two different values, of two different types no less, instead of acknowledging and documenting that fact through the variable name

[cinder karma]

Redeclaring is when you drop the previous and assign the same name to something else

[devout vault]

Eh, while it could be used that way, that doesn't mean it's the only way. I think atra's example is a good use of it

Like, I can overwrite functions in C# with pointers, but that doesn't mean it's good

[cinder karma]

It's best use is when you want the same thing, represented differently

Or in Rust when you can give up your let mut

[weak junco]

I think it still only makes sense if the two values conform to the same Interface, in which case, you can already do that without redeclaration

I do see one use case though, one that purely benefits terseness: Compound Call Assignment

Its a very rare language feature, iirc its because it makes the grammar harder to parse, but basically:
!!! THIS IS NOT PHP, PHP IS DUMB BECAUSE IT CONCATENATES WITH . !!!

string a = "ASD";
a .= ToLower(); // "asd"

[devout vault]

That does look interesting, but what does it have to do with redeclaration

[weak junco]

Well

var a = "asd";
var a .= Length(); // 3

[devout vault]

Wouldn't a become an int

[weak junco]

In this case yes. It's kind of a bad example, yes.

[devout vault]

I thought that was what you disliked about it, did I misunderstand?

[weak junco]

var a = "asd";
var a .= AsSpan(); // span

[weak junco]

Yes. Im not saying I like this, im saying I can see how one might appreciate some terseness benefit if the semantics of the two values overlap enough to be represented under one name

As far as im aware, raku is the only "major" language that does this, but it's not statically typed.

[weak junco]

How many string types does rust have again, I lost count 😅

[safe dragon]

only 2 I think?

I guess 3 if you considering &str and String different types

I suppose they are

my brain tends to just view &str as a slice into String

[pliant snow]

maybe because they used the same syntax as a slice into a string

[weak junco]

Might be a bad faith meme

[cinder karma]

Please, the joke is about number types

[safe dragon]

oh right OsString

I forgot that one

[weak junco]

Cant be worse than c++ surely

[safe dragon]

I have used &[u8] a fair few times

[cinder karma]

Also to be fair Vec<u8>, while it can hold string data. Is not a string

[safe dragon]

honorable mention to Chars for a character iterator

[weak junco]

I think the point has been made either way

[safe dragon]

true

though in practice it really ain't too bad

[weak junco]

The number types look fine imo

[weak junco]

Yeah, ofc. Im a total rust noob so I just havent gotten used to them.

I just know rust is based because of its insanely flexible type system. (It even has existential types, the lack of which gave me an existential crisis in Typescript)

[safe dragon]

the thing that messed with me the most are the 300 different types of structs that hold a memory location. Box, Rc, Cell, RefCell, UnsafeCell, Arc....

honorable mention to Cow

which is just a clone-on-write smart pointer

[weak junco]

Weak is pretty important for some data structures

[safe dragon]

there's also a library that's somewhat popular called ArcCow

[weak junco]

A lot of languages could benefit from more explicit copy/clone semantics

[safe dragon]

definitely

rust makes me feel bad when I use a clone

wish we had clone in C#

[weak junco]

I will not get into C++ move semantics

[safe dragon]

there's MemberwiseClone but that's a protected method

[weak junco]

I remember using serialization to get around that once

Good ol' Newtonsoft.Json

[safe dragon]

we've moved on to System.Text.Json now

[weak junco]

Yes

Same dev is in charge of that now iirc

Which is a cool move

[safe dragon]

I say that but Newtonsoft is still everywhere

[cinder karma]

DeepCopy

[safe dragon]

don't think that's in regular C#

[weak junco]

It is not

Is traits the best rust feature 🤔

[safe dragon]

nah

they're a nightmare once you get into async

it's getting better but it's a mess

async traits kind of exist now but very limited

[weak junco]

Ah yes, async rust 😅

[safe dragon]

it's not pretty

[weak junco]

Still entirely propped up by third party crates right?

tokio 👀

[safe dragon]

yeah you have to rely on one of the async runtime crates

[weak junco]

Either way though, being able to implement traits on someone elses types is cool

[safe dragon]

the intention was to allow people to pick an async runtime that fits their usecase but in practice is really hard to use them together so you're basically married to a specific runtime and any library written for another async runtime doesn't work

some crates provide implementations for more than 1 runtime but that's a big maintenance burden

so in the end it's just tokio 95% of the time

even if you're not writing a networking application which is what tokio is intended for

[safe dragon]

yeah though you can't implement traits you don't own for types you also don't own

which is a major limitation at times

[weak junco]

Its fine if you just wrap the foreign type

[safe dragon]

newtyping sometimes works as a workaround yeah

[weak junco]

But again, im a bit of a rust noob, so idk how often that causes other issues

[safe dragon]

newtyping is much more of a pain if you're a library author

if what you're writing is the final product it's not that bad

[weak junco]

Makes sense

[safe dragon]

I pretend I know things about rust

I haven't touched the language in any serious way in years

wait no

in 9 months

[weak junco]

My main contact has been with my buddy who is writing firewall software with it, but im more the frontend guy in that project

[safe dragon]

I'd brag about knowing a lot about C# but I'm surrounded by modding wizards here who can recite the entire reflection api like it's their anthem smh

[weak junco]

And hes been stuck on trying to write fancy macros for validating complex relationships in the config kekw

[safe dragon]

smh trying to be fancy

a familiar trap

[weak junco]

Its not really about being fancy, its just about having a rock solid implementation, validated by rusts type system and compiler

Which is pretty important for a firewall ig

[safe dragon]

if you do get to the end product eventually it can be good

[rain apex]

dont u just use publicizer

[weak junco]

We originally chose rust because of sum types

[safe dragon]

I've spent my fair time making some super fancy overengineered solution only to eventually scrap it for something extremely simple

[weak junco]

Or "real enums"

[weak junco]

I havent gone too deep into it xD

[safe dragon]

C# will probably get "real enums" in the next few years

🙏

[rain apex]

(i meant crumble re reflection)

[safe dragon]

I have no idea what publicizer is

[rain apex]

good u r no crimes

[weak junco]

I doubt it, the type system isnt nearly sophisticated enough i think

[safe dragon]

oh god what is this

you fuckin modders are criminals

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by chu2.718281828459045235360287471 as #6560 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1406384561033838693)

[devout vault]

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #6561 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1406383617630015562)

[weak junco]

Huh

[fleet wren]

private fields is a scam perpetuated by Big Reflection to get us to use their APIs

[weak junco]

I had a different workaround when i needed access to a private field

Encapsulation is a scam

OO is a scam

[rain apex]

encapsulation means i can patch the property getter!

it's a good thing :)

[devout vault]

I mean if it makes you feel any better, I've never used publicizer! But guilty as charged re:reflection API knowledge

And to be fair I'm fairly proficient with Harmony transpilers, which is probably an even worse crime

I'd be doing cecil crimes too if not for Pathos never adding it to SMAPI

[weak junco]

I wish the standard had become "LSP completion hides private fields unless you type the _ prefix that private fields must all have"

[rain apex]

my past year o work has been "wow this sure would be a lot easier if I can harmony things in C"

[safe dragon]

I actually use reflection once to set a boolean in my unit tests that's private readonly with a 6 line comment explanation of why it exists

[devout vault]

I mean, you can! You just have to play with assembly

[rain apex]

thats illegay according to the security guys

😔

[devout vault]

illegay

So like

Illegal in the same way as "be gay do crimes"

[rain apex]

yes exactly

[devout vault]

I know for a fact it's done in skyrim modding

[cinder karma]

(You're one of them!)

Pointers.

[devout vault]

Since I briefly looked into that before deciding I didn't want to deal with it

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6562 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1406385331971817493)

[rain apex]

the performance guys would also not like it i think

[devout vault]

(That's why I did that emote)

[cinder karma]

I don't understand emotes!

[devout vault]

Oh no! Not the performance guys! What ever will I do if my tetris clone doesn't run on a toaster!

[cinder karma]

Smh what about the performance gals

[weak junco]

Stardew Valley is proof that as much as Minecraft is one of the two most successful modding communities of all time, it could be even better with c#

Imo

[devout vault]

(Can you tell I don't tend to care abnout performance much)

I mean MC has harmony equivalent

[cinder karma]

Also smh my atc simulator needs to be able to run on a raspberry pi

[devout vault]

They've had it since before SDV was released

[rain apex]

mixins or something

[safe dragon]

y'all are always interesting for me cause you know things about parts of C# I have never touched and then some extremely widely used library in half of all enterprise C# applications that exist is unknown to y'all

[weak junco]

Yeah but they have java kekw

[rain apex]

it seems more powerful in some ways

[devout vault]

Pre-mixins - transpilers only 🙃

Although it was closer to cecil, since you could add fields and stuff

I even wrote something similar using the same library for another game I considered modding

[cinder karma]

Can't you add fields with conditional weak table

[devout vault]

I don't know what I did wrong but java was being a pain in ways it normally wasn't with MC modding

[weak junco]

I remember that there was a huuuge shift in mc modding when mixins became available

[devout vault]

Those aren't seen from reflection, or actually stored on the object in general. These were

[cinder karma]

I legitimately think that an atc game would be fun

[devout vault]

You keep saying this but I don't see you making a design document or prototype

[cinder karma]

Of course. Why would I 😛

That sounds like effort

[devout vault]

I'm not interested enough to learn about it and design it myself 😛

[cinder karma]

And I certainly didnt expect you to do it

[devout vault]

atra, re:your - the stuff I'm talking about was editing class files before they were loaded into the JVM, sorta like how SMAPI does compat rewrites

[cinder karma]

Makes sense!

[weak junco]

I wonder how moddable godot games are by default

[devout vault]

It was kinda a pain because back then your stuff was running deobfuscated, but it had to work obfuscated too for the final release

[cinder karma]

Tbh I'm glad I'm no longer dealing with mods

[devout vault]

I wrote a whole thing for mapping a type name to deobf or not based on the current environment

[cinder karma]

Verilog hierarchical and also $cgav are enough for me

[devout vault]

So I could do my "transpiler" and reflection crimes peacefully

The last thing I worked on on that front was dynamically generating a config screen based on a config class

Don't think I finished it

[devout vault]

I know there are tools to unpack the pck files. I believe gdscript is compiled into a bytecode normally, but there's an option in the export process to include the source

One of my past godot projects had a thing for loading pck files into the current game though

The main annoyance I had was the way that godot works, you basically had to extract all the base game files into your module to reference them, then not export those files when packaging it

And the editor didn't have a way to add like an additional filesystem for reference only while in the editor (even with tool scripts)

I should program something

Unsure if I want to try to finish my angelscript C# binding, or poke around with the homebrew stuff, or continue trying to figure out why updating flecs.net is crashing, or ...

or just watch anime/youtube since I'm a bit behind on that

[cinder karma]

Ask the botto

[safe dragon]

I had a whole message typed out but then one of my dad's cats that I'm taking care of for a few weeks finally got out from under the couch after almost 2 entire days so priorities changed

[weak junco]

Valid

[cinder karma]

Cat tax

[devout vault]

CAT

What atra said

[weak junco]

I hope zed + omnisharp improves soon

[devout vault]

I have to send a picture every time I mention to them that my parent's cat gets on my desk

And now I'm subject to cat tax

[weak junco]

It completely shits myself for all but one folder in your workspace (but im using an unofficial zed build on windows rn so really it's my fault)

[devout vault]

He knocked that pillow off something in the hallway

[weak junco]

Pillow stair surfing yes

[cinder karma]

You don't have tooo

[cinder karma]

Fully innocent

No jury would convict

[devout vault]

Technically he moved a rolling chair, which the pillow was partially on top of. So when the chair moved the pillow fell

[safe dragon]

I can't really send a good pic of that one yet because I'm very scared he'll flee back under the couch if I try to come close but

[cinder karma]

Awww

Poor kitty

[safe dragon]

here's the scared one

and here's the one that settled in quickly

[devout vault]

CATS

[weak junco]

Magnificient.

[safe dragon]

the scared one once escaped my dad's apartment and ended up hiding in a bush terrified for several days before we finally found him. That clearly caused some kind of trauma so it's already huge that he has left the couch

[cinder karma]

Floofy

Melm

[devout vault]

Poor kitty

[safe dragon]

they're norwegian forest cat/maine coon mixes. They're genuinely absurdly fluffy

[devout vault]

Fluffy cats are the best

[tranquil grove]

one of my neighbor's cats just went through similar
(though they're the "let cats roam the neighborhood" types, that specific cat is terrified of being out)

[devout vault]

My parents cat ain’t fluffy 😔

(He’s a bengal)

I grew up with all fluffy cats. I miss the floof

[tranquil grove]

she got out and disappeared for...4 days? but managed to get back and hide under a car for a while

[safe dragon]

we looked over through every place for miles around my dad's apartment and then when he was ultimately found he was literally right outside the apartment complex

lots of very thick bushes we had no chance of seeing anything in though

[weak junco]

My brother and his fiancees cats: Little witch cookie and fat louie

[safe dragon]

majestic

[tranquil grove]

favorite cat fur type, though I've never had one of 'em

[devout vault]

Once we thought my cat had gotten out and couldn’t find him after several hours of looking.

That afternoon while I’m crying in the living room he walked up out of nowhere like “oh hi, what’s going on?”

He probably never left the house, we just couldn’t find him

No idea where he was

Somewhere dark most likely since he’s a black cat and we wouldn’t see him then. But we had thought we checked all those spots

(Checked with hands, so would feel fur)

[safe dragon]

my mom's cats are outdoor cats though they are now 15 and barely leave the driveway if at all. They used to "rule" the entire neighborhood when they were young

[devout vault]

MORE CATS

Kirby was about to turn 19 when he had to be put to sleep

[tranquil grove]

my last was 22 or so, hard to recall because he was born around the same year as me

as seen in this very dated photo

I should probably digitize some of them next time I'm around my parents, I have 2 total

[cinder karma]

Floofy

[devout vault]

I’ve got some really old pictures of Kirby where he was a kitten

[cinder karma]

I am without cats of my own

[devout vault]

Or used to, maybe that was on an old harddrive and I never backed it up

[cinder karma]

This one hangs out behind work though

[cinder karma]

Adorable

[devout vault]

ANOTHER CAT

[cinder karma]

I enjoy how much of today's debugging is literally me being dumb

Anyways

Dinner time

[devout vault]

Isn’t like 75% of debugging because of the person who wrote it did something dumb

(Did you know, 197% of statistics are made up on the spot!)

[tranquil grove]

reminds me he was shockingly careful with his claws, compared to any other cat I've met
grew up harassed by babies but never scratched anybody (so not trimmed often* or removed, unlike my parents' previous one)

[safe dragon]

my first childhood cat lived till 18 and now my next childhood cats are the aforementioned 15 year olds

my dad's cats are only like 5/6 I think

[devout vault]

My childhood cats were all born during the era that declawing was popular and people usually didn’t question it

[tranquil grove]

yeah, my parents considered it but never had an excuse

[devout vault]

My twin and I were like 7 when we got them

[weak junco]

Cookie always tries to come up with me when I go to sleep in the attic when visiting my parents, but for some reason she's not allowed there, it's a bit of a logistics challenge because it's a door with very steep stairs right behind

[tranquil grove]

also he was pretty good about using scratch posts etc, never overgrew much

[devout vault]

Which was probably a factor

[tranquil grove]

he did also tear up a couch, but mostly stuck to posts

[weak junco]

Meanwhile Louie doesn't give any f's, ever. That belly is the most wonderful feeling floof in the world though.

Ok, thats enough cat pics from me

[safe dragon]

none of the cats in my family were ever declawed that I know of

[sand frost]

Not my cat

[safe dragon]

beautiful

[cinder karma]

Kitty!!!

Where did you get this one

[sand frost]

I just like to take photos of him

[safe dragon]

great picture

[sand frost]

My mom’s friend’s cat

He’s a Maine coon

Very friendly, very big

[devout vault]

MOAR CATTTTT

[sand frost]

That’s his window watching table

[safe dragon]

reminds me of this picture of one my mom's cats

cats sitting in a human way is always great

[weak junco]

I wish it was easier to adopt cats in germany

Idk how difficult it might be with my apartment

[cinder karma]

Big cat

[safe dragon]

none of the shelters near me even have any cats

[weak junco]

Unless they really wanna be left alone, youre not allowed to adopt just one cat either

[cinder karma]

What do you have to do to adopt a cat?

Pet fee?

Mandatory monitoring ?

[devout vault]

I miss floof 😔

[safe dragon]

idk about germany but in the netherlands you have to go through an assessment to determine if you're capable of caring for them and that your motivations are good

[cinder karma]

The big reason why I don't have a cat is I'm out of the house for 14+hrs/day six days a week

Which is basically

Untenable

[weak junco]

Yeah, its similar here i think

I havent gone though the process myself, though

I can barely take good enough care of myself 😅

[safe dragon]

a lot of shelter cats come with a requirement that they can go outside so that's impossible for me

[devout vault]

hence why I haven’t gotten a new cat yet since Kirby passed away

[weak junco]

2nd story apt

[devout vault]

….what??????????

Would a catio work

Or outside outside is required

[safe dragon]

cause they were outdoor cats before ending up in the shelter is usually the logic

[devout vault]

Ah. Hmm

[safe dragon]

though like i said none of the shelters near me even have any cats rn

strays practically don't exist

[cinder karma]

I would love a small farm

Barn cats

Chicken coop

Plants everywhere

Grey water system

My own solar panels

Almost off the grid

[devout vault]

I didn’t know atras low tech remote commune included cats in the blueprint

[cinder karma]

Gotta have cats

[devout vault]

True

[cinder karma]

If you don't the mice win

[safe dragon]

love cats

[cinder karma]

Also i need to find a like minded person. Somehow

Preferably more than a single like minded person

[safe dragon]

a 2 person commune

[dusty pollen]

I'm not joining any communes that don't have wifi

[rain apex]

are there gonna be wind turbines

[cinder karma]

Maybe a small wind turbine

[devout vault]

I couldn't do a low tech commune since all my hobbies use my PC

[cinder karma]

But batteries and solar is easier

[devout vault]

Well, a few use my phone I guess

[rain apex]

what about a windmill

i just want a big spinny thing

[cinder karma]

The Commune may not have wifi

Haha

[rain apex]

a spenny even

[devout vault]

Okay, so:

• Updating Flecs.NET - fixing the native code crash is painful, but I had another idea to look into (maybe I broke the code that calculates the size of C# types and converts things to/from it?)
• AngelScript C# bindings - gotta learn more about SWIG to remove the rest of the pointer wrappers (especially the function callbacks, kinda important for this)
• The homebrew game stuff - Basically just explore what I can get running on stuff (still sad I can't get .net to be small enough for GC/Wii RAM)

Decisions, decisions

A and B are for my "main" game project which is too large for me to ever finish realistically

[cinder karma]

It's funny because a lot of my hobbies no longer require a computer

[devout vault]

With C, I have no concrete ideas for what I want to make

[cinder karma]

What would you like? Cat platformer?

[devout vault]

I dunno

[cinder karma]

Do you start with the gameplay loop and move out?

[devout vault]

I did re-remember a game idea but there's stuff to figure out before I code much on it

[devout vault]

Well.... I usually don't plan much at all 😄

But I gotta have at least a general setting and gameplay I want

Like the way I'd start doing a top down roguelike is very different from a KAR-like

(Even ignoring the 2d/3d part)

[cinder karma]

(I'm very dumb and have no idea how gameplay loops actually work.)

Like what's a roguelike

[devout vault]

Well, not so much the loop in a code sense so much as from the player sense

Roguelikes essentially you die a bunch, and make progress towards beating it by getting better at the game

Roguelites (k -> t) are similar, but you can get some sort of upgrade between runs based on your previous run performance

[dusty pollen]

it's a kind of overloaded term afaik? meaning both the game event loop and the player's gameplay loop

[tranquil grove]

yeah, roguelike is when you die and start over, basically
(there is so much forum discussion about the terms, do not read about it)

[cinder karma]

I mean...a two people commune is a marriage

[cinder karma]

Wasn't going to

[devout vault]

I enjoy roguelikes sometimes, but usually need some sort of persistent progression (which is why I prefer roguelites)

[tranquil grove]

I have a physical mini-notebook for a roguelike where the proc-gen world regenerates whenever you're not looking at it, which seemed fun

[frosty echo]

With that basic a definition, most old games are roguelikes

[tranquil grove]

probably like a decade old since I decided not to do gamedev

[devout vault]

Spelunky is a bit of a weird exception for me liking it, but I play that kinda mindlessly hence why I'm so bad at spelunky 2 COUGH

[dusty pollen]

"noooo it's a roguelite not a roguelike--" keep going and I'll call html a programming language

[cinder karma]

What's spelunky

Hmmm

[devout vault]

Okay but I have actual ideas for this too (vaguely).

Basically, the idea is to make a game that's as chaotic and fast paced as my dreams

[cinder karma]

What hobby should I pick up next

[tranquil grove]

(re spelunky) indiana jones styled cave platformer, go down in a cave w/o taking fall damage*

[devout vault]

Since my dreams largely lack object permanence

[dusty pollen]

needle felting

[cinder karma]

Fwiw. My heart is saying yarn dyeing rn

[dusty pollen]

oooo, yarn dying seems fun

personally I'm not into chemistry type hobbies

[cinder karma]

I love chemistry type hobbies!

[devout vault]

This is spelunky

[cinder karma]

Like cooking or baking