programmers-off-topic

[devout vault]

No being reasonable allowed.

(But also apparently they lost a boost, they’re currently at 16 which is only 2 more than level 3 server)

[dusty pollen]

so my initial guess was correct

grumble grumble grumble

[devout vault]

Everyone loves directory climbing in html

Wait

HTML is <img>

And src=“”

Did new html make a new one out of spite for the original designers

[dusty pollen]

this is xml

for tiled

[devout vault]

Ah, tragic

What are you doing with tiled

[dusty pollen]

and I'm grumbling because my script was supposed to remove the climbs

[devout vault]

It’s been ages since I’ve touched that codebase

[dusty pollen]

I'm making an extension

[devout vault]

<insert fun old fact about me making the tbin plugin>

<then remove said fact because it’s on topic>

[dusty pollen]

oh that's so cool though casey

[devout vault]

What all can extensions do? I’ve been considering that

Since I don’t want to write a full tile editor

And ldtk is worse in some ways for my use case

[dusty pollen]

a lot

they're mostly javascript based but I've been very impressed with what tiled exposes

not to be on topic but I'm currently making an extension that will sort out tilesheet references from other folders for stardew

[devout vault]

@crystal wren You’ve been scooped!

(I think he was gonna make a custom version though)

You know I haven’t seen a patreon update for tiled in a bit

[dusty pollen]

pillow also had it on their todo list apparently lmao

[devout vault]

None since November, that explains it

[crystal wren]

So I do have the Tiled thing effectively working!

[dusty pollen]

but since I got to it first, you get... dialogs!

[crystal wren]

Only one flaw right now that I want/need to fix before I can release it and/or put it out there. And it's a pretty bad one.

[dusty pollen]

I'd be interested to see how you did it once I release mine like, today

[dusty pollen]

what was it?

[crystal wren]

What does yours do exactly?

They might do different things...

[devout vault]

When will somebody revive my old idea of a fully featured modding suite 😔 (Stardew Editor)

[dusty pollen]

it fixes references to tilesheets by searching in preconfigured folders

[crystal wren]

Oh, sweet, exactly the same thing!

[dusty pollen]

(without changing the actual path of the tilesheet in tiled, only loading the image temporarily)

[crystal wren]

Yup, same as mine.

[dusty pollen]

what was your flaw? so I can avoid it

[crystal wren]

Well technically it does change it, it just changes it back on save.

[dusty pollen]

oh mine doesn't at all!

refreshing tiled using Ctrl+R actually "rebreaks" them

[crystal wren]

So the flaw with mine is I just got it to a dumb MVP stage, completely ignoring the fact that custom tilesheets exist.

Big flaw, it would be simple enough to fix.

[dusty pollen]

oh I just added support for those

the annoying part was the massive dialogue window ngl

there's also ATA support

[crystal wren]

I nearly considered using C++ to avoid having to use JS.

Where do those "settings" get saved to, out of curiosity?

[dusty pollen]

config file in the same dir as the script!

(wherever that dir may be)

[crystal wren]

Okay, pretty much what I did, then.

[dusty pollen]

great minds think alike and all that

I was actually going to do the "set and unset on save" but I stumbled across an even less permanent version

[crystal wren]

I've been putting off working on my farm, because it meant I would have to get custom tilesheets working in my extension, and that's effort.

Yeah, what's that method?! Because setting and unsetting was the simplest I came up with!

[dusty pollen]

haha tilesets have a method called loadFromImage that takes an image and a path, with the image being what's currently shown and the path being what's saved!

[crystal wren]

https://tenor.com/bWEVi.gif

[dusty pollen]

I just make the path the asset name (I have also added an easy tilesheet adder)

[crystal wren]

Well, if you release this soon, you've both saved my upcoming farm map (less effort involved now ), and found a very early tester!

[dusty pollen]

I've actually released a few tester versions in another server already but my final full-feature alpha test version should be ready in about... five minutes, if all goes well

[crystal wren]

And found it in SMC.

Though granted I'm not going to really have time to try it out tonight...

Working on mine was still good, though. Babby's first JS project and all.

[dusty pollen]

was it really your first js project? that's so fun

I have used several js crimes in this, like throwing properties on random things because why not

[crystal wren]

I was serious when I said I considered C++ instead!

[dusty pollen]

fun with menus

[supple ether]

That seems very useful

[crystal wren]

Tiled is really surprisingly nicely extensible though, huh?

We could turn this into a Stardew-for-Tiled extension suite.

[dusty pollen]

now, am I brave enough to throw it in mmg yet or will I throw it in smc again and pass to mmg if it seems to work?

(for an extended test, because eventually this will live on nexus)

[red crest]

what does a fully featured suite even entail

[crystal wren]

(I also technically have this briefly started... but again, effort and time.)

[red crest]

StardewStudio/StardewStudio/StardewStudio

I wonder what you were gonna call it

[crystal wren]

Probably Stardew Editor.

[red crest]

oh I was gonna guess Dev

[crystal wren]

Noting the mod ID in the bottom left. I've had it on my list for a whiiiiiiiiile.

[devout vault]

Features for editing every asset, as well as tying stuff together for dynamic content and what not 😛

I’ve had three or four editions of Stardew editor

[supple ether]

I've been tinkering with something similar as well

[devout vault]

Though I only remember 2

And that’s not including the content patcher editor test project in my mod repo

[crystal wren]

I think pretty much every C# person here's at least toyed with it.

[safe dragon]

[supple ether]

It uses stardewui but I realized I needed to make INotifyPropertyChanged versions of all of the data classes since it's retained-mode and after that I kind of shoved it in the ambition closet

I will probably come back to it at some point

Maybe if enough of us do 5% of a functional editor we'll have something that actually works

That's how programming works right /jk

[devout vault]

For the first 90% yes

The second 90% not so much

[safe dragon]

what part do I do when I barely even know anything about stardew that was released after 1.0

[rain apex]

180%

Make it a blazor app for us

[devout vault]

Chu are you not familiar with the first and last 90%

[rain apex]

No I'm not pls enlighten

[safe dragon]

I'm never using blazor again

[devout vault]

You complain at us whippersnappers who keep being on topic in this channel

[safe dragon]

easy

but y'all already do that yourselves

[supple ether]

Run CEF inside stardew running a web app on top, what could go wrong

Stardew has acces to skia technically

[devout vault]

And run Stardew via a web build at the same time too

(I did that once for fun, though it couldn’t go further than the title screen thanks to content loading dictionaries breaking on the web build)

[supple ether]

Wasm monogame is cursed af

[red crest]

something something the last 10% of development takes 90% of the development time

[cinder karma]

Dear people who print to the terminal directly instead of using stdout: i hate you.

I've been trying to redirect this logging so I can ducking see what is going on for fifteen fucking minutes

[fleet wren]

did you also pipe stderr

[cinder karma]

Yes

I should also have a verbosity toggle i just can't find it

I'm also trying to figure out who decided that having nonzero exit codes for successful exits was okay

[dusty pollen]

(the tentatively final test version of the extension was just released in smc for those interested in testing it out. I'll throw it in mmg after dinner)

[cinder karma]

We love you iro

Even if you're on topic

Now let me be angrily off topic in peace

[dusty pollen]

it doesn't get more off topic than being on topic in an off topic channel tbf

[dusty pollen]

but also this is a jailable offense

[cinder karma]

Just fyi, what I'm trying to do is write a python handler for a specific type of simulation

[dusty pollen]

who wrote the non-zero success code though

[cinder karma]

The simulator

Cadence. Xcelium

[cinder karma]

Failed with error codes? Returns 1

Works fine? Returns 1

Ahhhhhhhhhh

Screaminf

Halp I'm sanitizing things for filesystems again kill me now

[safe dragon]

🙏

reminds me of windows' built in zip extraction functionality would return a success response for a very long time even if the extraction partially failed

[cinder karma]

At least I'm not on windows

The windows filesystem can go die

[cinder karma]

No.

I'm a strong hater of wysiwyg

Strong hater

The hate flows in my veins and makes me stronger

Why is moen advertising to me smh

[safe dragon]

I'm a fellow wysiwyg hater

I've used winforms too much to still want anything to do with wysiwyg

[sand frost]

I haven’t!

[steel kraken]

Tbh I like winforms as WYSIWYG is optional

I learnt my lessons on trying to build WYSIWYG editors for modding in Dota, and I found its high maintenance and doesn't really solve the problem of lowering the skill floor as you effectively learn the WYSIWYG editor instead of modding and once you want to do something the editor doesn't offer you now have this learning cliff of having to learn everything again anyway

Particularly for a game still changing

[devout vault]

The level I was thinking wasn't wysiwyg level 😛

[devout vault]

Yeah that is a big problem

And the game still changing part is a reason multiple editions got abandoned 😅

[cinder karma]

I've been playing with the simulator's checkpoints

[steel kraken]

thats partly why rather than working on a wysiwyg editor, I'm working on supporting tools to get runtime state back into the editor

if I accept that wysiwyg is a lost cause, the next best thing is to simplify troubleshooting and make it easier to understand what the content pack is doing

[devout vault]

That seems incredibly intriguing

Did a rare linkedin check, and...

I just can't

(At least this post I found this on was making fun of it)

[steel kraken]

That is certainly a take, but game programming calling things ai vs having ai write the game are comparing apples to a honda civic

There are places where I think its a more fair comparison, like with Inzoi

[dusty pollen]

I actually think it's fair to call enemy ai ai, but I agree that there's a big difference between integrating (non-ml) ai into your code and writing your code using llms.

[narrow lake]

Ai will just take the life out of gaming

[dusty pollen]

that being said, I have no doubt the tripleA game industry WILL try to replace devs with chatgpt because, well, what haven't they tried to do to their employees atp

[narrow lake]

and they wonder why indie devs are taking over the industry

[dusty pollen]

taking over in what way? I really don't think indie devs are doing any financial damage to most triple A studios ngl

[narrow lake]

some are

i have seen a lot of indie devs comparable with triple a studios or a lot more at least

[steel kraken]

Balatro got the 2024 award attention, stardew's success has rekindled a genre of games

and former ubisoft devs keep cooking with banger titles

[narrow lake]

and warhorse studios used to be indie they are triple a now but they dominated with kcd

[dusty pollen]

I mean

according to ca a couple years ago, he earned roughly $31 million dollars from stardew (this was fairly recent so definitely more than 5 years after release).

The Sims 4 made over $1 billion in sales in the first five years alone

so while indie games are definitely competing in charts, idk if they're doing financial damage?

[steel kraken]

Relic software somehow got themselves indie again after being owned by sega since THQ went poof and is now doing a dawn of war 1 remaster which looks like its going to cook

[dusty pollen]

(not that I don't think they SHOULD be competitive because all my favourite recent games have been indie or small studios, I just don't know if the studios are actually that worried)

[narrow lake]

team cherry is going to dominate charts againthis year

[steel kraken]

The Sims is much more of an outlier as no one else has really competed with the sims

[dusty pollen]

true

[steel kraken]

Inzoi is the closest, and the others all got cancelled

[narrow lake]

fair

[dusty pollen]

oh jesus pubg is on $17bil apparently

[narrow lake]

how

[dusty pollen]

microtransactions, probably

[steel kraken]

it was also a full priced game at launch and was breaking 1 million CCU on steam when it popped off

[narrow lake]

what do u think will be 2025 goty?

[dusty pollen]

yeah they made $650mil 2024 alone

[steel kraken]

pubg still has the #1 spot of top all time CCU peak game on steam

[dusty pollen]

I liked blue prince but I don't think it deserves goty

[narrow lake]

i want to try blue prince

[steel kraken]

3.2m concurrent all time, and is still competitive in the 24h concurrent peak

[narrow lake]

i think silksong or expd 33 will win goty but i want kcd2 to be in the top 5

[dusty pollen]

people are liking mistria a lot ig? but I'm not really keeping track of new games

[steel kraken]

next highest is 2.4m with black myth and 2.1m with palworld

[dusty pollen]

damn

[narrow lake]

did palworld win the lawsuit yet?

[steel kraken]

still going

though the fact nintendo has had to make some amendments to their patents is telling

[narrow lake]

real lawyers have already sided with pocketpair and with how courts are going they side with pocketpair too

[steel kraken]

unfortunately the lesson Nintendo is going to learn is to patent even more

[narrow lake]

true

[dusty pollen]

yeah the patent approach seemed sketchy but ig "knock-off characters" aren't actually illegal strictly speaking

[devout vault]

Financially perhaps not, thanks to the “whales”

[dusty pollen]

wait until every new pokemon gets a design trademark

[steel kraken]

Thats why this is all BS patent infringement cases and not copyright or trademark

[narrow lake]

the thing is palworld is a genuinely enjoyable game that i love and I also love pokemon but nintendo has gone too far

[steel kraken]

which if it was a knock-off, would be copyright/trademark infringement

[dusty pollen]

tbh I think most even direct knockoffs aren't technically illegal if they aren't violating specific copyright? knockoffs in most creative fields are legal

as long as they don't directly infringe on trademarks or directly copy paste

[steel kraken]

in my view if nintendo wanted to actually bury palworld, would be to have made an official pokemon game that had the survival crafting elements

[dusty pollen]

(other than in the fashion industry, where even direct copy paste is allowed in certain cases like sewing patterns)

[dusty pollen]

that requires paying devs to release a good product

and we're back to square one of I don't think big studios are willing to do that any more

[cinder karma]

Who is willing to pay devs to release a good product lol

[dusty pollen]

exactly

in the meantime, big game studios can do what they want, I'm just going to keep playing the games I actually like and it looks like those are going to stay mostly indie for the foreseeable future

[cinder karma]

Tbh i don't know what big hands are

[dusty pollen]

they're what happens when you use a swipe keyboard at 4:30am

[cinder karma]

And my idea of entertainment is watching some dude rank organic chemicals

Sometimes inorganic chemicals

[dusty pollen]

what rank higher, ethyls or insert other term here I forgot all my organic chemistry

[cinder karma]

Peroxyacids are fun

[devout vault]

I have faith in KAR!!!!
(inb4 “remind me in 5 months” (or whenever it comes out))

[heavy dagger]

now there is a quality reminder. if I converted all of that brain power of yours into a CPU, I'd still rather rely on the computational power of a tamagotchi. with a dead battery. (#6796231) (5mo | <t:1767069421>)

[devout vault]

…wow

I didn’t think it triggered mid message

Welp guess I’ll see if I have to eat my words near year end

[sand frost]

does hf make the list?

[dusty pollen]

this feels like an excellent time to show everyone the uberbot reminder docs

[devout vault]

But have you considered the comedic factor if I forgot about this and it suddenly appears at the end of the year?

[slender badge]

There is no game.
And nothing ever happens

[steel kraken]

There is a game, the one you just lost

[dusty pollen]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who read it like that at least

[cinder karma]

Pathlib my beloved

No love to subprocess

[cinder karma]

Fun things at work

One of my terminals has decided it layers over everything

Including anything I try to put over it

It's just one terminal window

[pliant snow]

Which OS?

[cinder karma]

Redhat

[pliant snow]

Some DEs have an option when you right click on the title bar to set that window to be above everything else

[cinder karma]

Gd it

Always on top, huh

Anyways

[cinder karma]

It turns out I have a -nostdout flag

I can finally see

[hushed raven]

How easy is it to either learn C# after learning C++ or convert C++ to C#? I'm currently learning C++ and i'm wondering if it'll be easy to make C# mods for stardew when I'm done

[safe dragon]

certainly a lot easier in that direction than the other

I doubt it will be very difficult

to write functional code anyway. Would take a while to learn the "best" way to do things

[crystal wren]

I'm always a proponent of starting with more difficult/closer to the metal for initial learning.

[steel kraken]

tbh learning pointers early will lead to bad habits, particularly in an era of memory safety being important

[cinder karma]

Eh, it's finneeeeee

[steel kraken]

unless you want to be a hacker, in which case learning how memory works is important

[cinder karma]

I think it's important to eventually learn how memory works but it doesnt have to be within the first decade

Help me, I'm launching piles of python scripts again pretending that's multithreading

[steel kraken]

as someone who prefers Typescripts type system, I find people having a... physical relationship between types and memory being a constraint not a benefit

the amount of devs that aren't typescript native that insist typescript interfaces should start with I hurts

[cinder karma]

I removed three places in a python script that kept reading full files into memory and now am figuring my way into doing batch processing

[dusty pollen]

I'm partial to the javascript type system personally

[crystal wren]

Yeah, it's not so much the pointers that I like to encourage about that aspect, and more the how memory be part.

[steel kraken]

The magic of typescripts type system is that it describes the shape/characteristics of the type.
You can assign one type to the other even if they have no relationship with each other if their shapes are compatible.

That and it also has a healthy amount of fun logic you can do entirely in the type system, between unions and derived types

[cinder karma]

It's like Go

Or kinda like Rust traits

[steel kraken]

Typescripts type system is turing complete and can run doom

[dusty pollen]

last time I looked at it it reminded me of Haskell a bit

but javascript's type system is "yes" and I respect that

[steel kraken]

The power of typescript is that it's type system is entirely conceptual and that the runtime is unaware of its existence

Typescript does make some concessions to be interoperable with JavaScript quirks but multiple teams have taken typescript and had it transpile to things other than JavaScript, like Lua, wasm and I think some are trying to have it compile to native

[crystal wren]

https://github.com/JohnDeved/awesome-typescript-compilers?tab=readme-ov-file#other-language-targets

That's... actually a few very nice targets.

[fleet wren]

I don't think Rust allows for types being determined by a runtime value of a property

[cinder karma]

Hush

Javascript is blasmemphy

[supple ether]

It shouldn't be too hard. The general concepts are mostly the same, though the syntax is a little different.
The main difference is that c# is a managed language, so most of the time you're not working directly with memory or pointers and letting .NET manage your memory for you. Most of the things you would do with pointers can be replaced with language features though.
There's no macros, but there are generics, and source generators if you really need them.
It's also a higher-level language, so the standard library already does a lot of the basic stuff for you.

[hushed raven]

Good to know, I haven't learned about source generators yet so I doubt that'll be something i'd use often anyway, very glad that it doesn't use pointers or working directly with memory, very much unformilliar with the concept and it still feels wrong

[crystal wren]

In all honesty, you can't really go wrong in the long term learning either first.

[safe dragon]

imma go wrong learning em

[fleet wren]

got it, writing a program with the memory safety of C++ combined with the runtime overhead of C#

[supple ether]

IntPtr! IntPtr everywhere!

[cinder karma]

Yeah, c# has pointers and unsafe code

If you want

[safe dragon]

can't say I've ever used them other than shitty windows api code

pointers that is

never touched unsafe

[cinder karma]

Skia

[safe dragon]

the graphics api thing?

that'd definitely have some unsafe code if it's just raw bindings

[cinder karma]

God I'm glad I'm retired from modding lol

Iro calling me a liar

Happy birthday, iro!

[dusty pollen]

thank you, where's my present?

[cinder karma]

Still being knitted

[cinder karma]

Tired

[cinder karma]

Vba

Damaged for life

[versed charm]

HOW DO YOU EVEN MOD, IT'S TOO HARD!!! I've tried countless time and I've taken tips that never work.

[lethal walrus]

!mh

[indigo mist]

For help with modding issues, please ask in #1272025932932055121! When asking for assistance there, sharing an error log will help others identify your issue (see https://smapi.io/log for instructions).

To use this command, type !mh.

[safe dragon]

skill issue

(hope you figure it out)

[shadow wave]

Hello

[cinder karma]

When push comes to shove

There is always regex

[cinder karma]

What the fuck is that emoji

:pufferslay:

[dusty pollen]

made it myself

there was a need

@ mods add please

[cinder karma]

I can't believe I talk to you smh

[dusty pollen]

it's inspired by ofc

[slender badge]

Horrible

[safe dragon]

it's beautiful

don't listen to them

[steel kraken]

Cross server emojis were a mistake

[hardy jewel]

I think we should make it an official emote

[steel kraken]

I still want puffercop

[muted estuary]

I saw this I love it.

[dusty pollen]

I agree

-# discord PLEASE send this actually transparent this time I beg

…nope. discord is a hater

[dark veldt]

It's so cursed.

I love it

[dusty pollen]

but have you seen avi’s matching sticker?

[dark veldt]

I did! Also cursed

[dusty pollen]

I wish discord wasn’t being annoying about sending transparent images or I would have sent the raw image already

hold on I got it to work

[dusty pollen]

"why do people hate on javascript"

the stackoverflow-recommended way to do a shallow comparison on two objects:

in case you're wondering, no, the properties are not inherently ordered in some way, so this WILL break on identical objects with different orders of properties

[cinder karma]

What does a shallow comparison of two objects mean?

[dusty pollen]

compare only the top level properties but don't recurse into their objects

basically, in a shallow comparison, {a:1, b:2} == {a:1, b:2} but {a:1, b: {c: 2}} != {a:1, b: {c: 2}}

because the two {c: 2}s aren't the same object and we aren't recursively checking them

deep comparison is obviously expensive, usually unnecessary and sometimes impossible

[steel kraken]

that would be deep comparison wouldn't it

a shallow comparison would be doing equality check after iterating over object properties, or what most usually care about and just doing a comparison between obj1 and obj2 directly

to be fair, shallow comparisons vs deep comparisons isn't a javascript thing, any deeply nested data structure in any language would have this

I guess any deeply nested data structure that has reference types at least, everything being value types on the stack I guess are immune from the problem

[dusty pollen]

yup, this is just the best way to do either one apparently

(it's only a deep comparison if either you care about property order or do a deep sort though)

I'm just irritated that there's no easier shallow comparison method

[safe dragon]

it also breaks for classes with private fields it's very fun

[cinder karma]

In python I suspect i would try to compare the __dict__

But that also may be less than reliable

[dusty pollen]

that's the issue though, js doesn't have dict comparisons built in

[cinder karma]

Object.entries seems promisinf

Object.entries(myObj).forEach(itm=>a[itm[0

[dusty pollen]

yup, that's another way to do it

[cinder karma]

Happy birthday!

[ivory shadow]

It's pretty insane how there's no built-in equality checks

It's something I don't like about JavaScript

[safe dragon]

tbh C# sucks as well for checking value equality

[lethal walrus]

latest on finally getting around to clonind hd to new hd: why is the old one not in fdisk

kde partition manager has it?

oh i didnt scroll up enough

oh widgets are cool i always wanted xkcd on my desktop

[dusty pollen]

I have it on my ipad homescreen lmao

[devout vault]

I had to update VS and there's a copilot sidebar now, eww

I hope it doesn't reopen every time I start VS now

[dusty pollen]

there's built in ai that isn't possible to disable in WHATSAPP now

it can only be disabled per chat and only by group admins

[devout vault]

blegh

blergh, even

[sand frost]

😦 terrible

I try to spend as little time as possible in WhatsApp tbh

[safe dragon]

we world needs more AI

I barely use WhatsApp but It's pretty much a requirement to have installed to live in the Netherlands

[sand frost]

It’s what a lot of people use at work

So I don’t really have the option to delete if I want to keep in touch with my coworkers

[tranquil grove]

iirc most/all of the copilot stuff in VS is implemented as an optional thing you can uninstall in the Tools or Extensions tab, but I forget which; I haven't seen it since

aside from one toggle for a copilot "badge" or something in the main options

[cinder karma]

One of my friends just moved to the Netherlands!

I have questions

1. Is the washer/dryer normal

2. Are small (1m tall) fridges normal

3. Do apartments usually come with microwaves

4. Is line drying feasible?

[dusty pollen]

going by Europe standards, idk what the question is, yes, no, depends on how optimistically you view the concept of drying

[cinder karma]

Combined washer dryer

What is that

[dusty pollen]

sounds neat

[cinder karma]

It doesnt work very well

[cyan shadow]

No

[cinder karma]

Washes fine doesnt really dry

[cyan shadow]

Tell your friend to go to Action or Wibra and get a drying rack

[dusty pollen]

oh I was grouping all air drying into one

and assuming it would be on a rack

[cinder karma]

She has a patio

[cyan shadow]

1. Depends on the housing situation
2. I have one of those but my previous house had a full sized fridge. Usually depends on how many people are sharing the house.
3. Eeeeh? If the house comes furnished then yes if not buy it from the previous tenant

[dusty pollen]

(Europe does tend to have smaller fridges than the rest of the fridge-having world)

[cyan shadow]

Yeah the rain will GET her laundry real good tbh, 80% of the reason I recommend a drying rack is you can just plunk it down indoors

[dusty pollen]

if it's anything like the UK it won't be that much more effective indoors but we all like to have hope sometimes /j

just don't try to hang things from radiators obviously

[cinder karma]

See i lined dried in north Carolina so I think y'all just have weird standards

Now that I'm in TX line drying is ez

[dusty pollen]

do you guys use actual lines

or do you use racks

[cinder karma]

Racks+

[cyan shadow]

My parents use clothes lines on the roof of the family home, but the roof area is covered by terracotta tiles so the clothes don't get wet unless the wind makes it rain sideways

Here tho? I never had anywhere convenient for line drying

[dusty pollen]

I mean technically terracotta is porous iirc

[cyan shadow]

Hence the rack

[cyan shadow]

It doesn't leak at all!

The tiles have a special interlocking design that keeps water from dripping between them too

Idk what it is about Mangalore tiles, but those things never leak

[dusty pollen]

do you guys have flat or angled roofs over in Mangalore

[cyan shadow]

Angled

[dusty pollen]

makes sense with the rainfall ig

[cyan shadow]

(To clarify, the tiles are Mangalore tiles because they're from Mangalore, but my parents are in Bangalore )

the difference is one consonant

[cyan shadow]

Like, the tiled bit is angled

[dusty pollen]

where I was born has very little rainfall so all the roofs are flat because it allows upward expansion etc

but it means that in the tiny tiny bit of rain it does get, roofs immediately leak

[cyan shadow]

Obviously the bit where you walk around is flat

[dusty pollen]

you say obviously but technically it's possible to walk around on our angled roof

[cyan shadow]

Some houses in Bangalore do have flat roofs

[dusty pollen]

and a certain beagle genius has made it out there at least once

[cyan shadow]

And in these cases the architect's brain needs to be studied under a microscope if you're to find any grooves

[dusty pollen]

none. smooth as a pebble

[cyan shadow]

It rains cats and dogs and steel pipes in Bangalore, flat roofs make zero sense there

Like, do you really want a rooftop infinity pool made of monsoon

[dusty pollen]

I mean

some Americans would pay good money for that

[cyan shadow]

Rainwater does not make a good pool

And it attracts mosquitoes

Disease carrying ones

[dusty pollen]

mosquitoes are the worst

little shits

[cyan shadow]

I hate them

At least the ones in the Netherlands don't carry diseases

[dusty pollen]

which diseases do they typically carry in India? idk if malaria is common in that region and ik Zika is south America. is west Nile mosquito borne?

[cyan shadow]

Dengue, malaria, chikanguniya, and briefly zika

Dengue is the scariest one, it kills

[devout vault]

I don't think updated VS likes me

Going to the definition of Func brings me to IdnMapping, and Action brings me to ExecutionEngineException. List and Dictionary work fine though

[lethal walrus]

why did i decide to write a png parser

well i know why i did (practice with format with a digestible spec) but why png its already breaking i dont even have metadata

[lethal walrus]

oh i was reading the wrong file

[lethal walrus]

cloning without the saving took like 6 hours less than last time so that's good i think

[devout vault]

Who wants to be horrified
https://www.reddit.com/r/csharp/comments/ad0hw1/its_actually_possible_to_get_a_pointer_to_any/eddpb1y/?context=10000

[red crest]

is there anything fun i can do with this

[devout vault]

Probably

How am I supposed to call a method accepting a pointer via reflection then? >:(

Here's hoping a new IntPtr(...) works well enough

[pliant snow]

ahh! c#!!

[supple ether]

I still think the string template parsing thing is more cursed

[cinder karma]

Is it a situation where a publicizer would work instead?

[devout vault]

No, I'm using a Generic<>.Method and only have Type as an object 😔

[cinder karma]

O.o whatever it is it sounds cool

[devout vault]

Suffering

It's suffering

grumbles something about messing with a wrapper library for a native binding

[cinder karma]

Whatever game project or mod it is will be cool!

[safe dragon]

1. yes
2. yes, especially for students
3. no, you're lucky if they even come with a stovetop sometimes. Previous tenants are even often required to remove flooring or curtains that they installed
4. no. Unless it's a really nice period in the middle of summer...

[devout vault]

Ugh I hate dotnet test stuff

Who needs the debugger breakpoints to work in the code being tested (ie. not the test classes themselves), or console output, or stack traces when "test host process crashed"

[safe dragon]

hmm that has always worked fine for me

[dusty pollen]

the png spec IS surprisingly nice though, isn't it? (and I had no idea it was from Oxford Brookes until I first read it, which was neat!)

[steel kraken]

didn't PNG get spec updates recently

[dusty pollen]

oh wow VERY recently

a month and a half ago

[lethal walrus]

mhm, v3 announced + v4 planned

[lethal walrus]

it is!

[dusty pollen]

what's new in v3, anyway?

22 years in the making so I'm hoping pngs can now cure cancer

[steel kraken]

hdr and properly spec'd animation support

apng was already kind of a thing but wasn't well spec'd or standardized, but it is now

[lethal walrus]

oh goodie random segfaults

[lethal walrus]

i probably should've figred out getting the data out earlier

ignore that i wrote a python script to parse the debug logs

oh no

[dusty pollen]

was the left one a result of your png experiments or just a very funny coincidence?

[lethal walrus]

left one is trying to reconstruct the image in python to see if i read it right and terminal outputting it didnt work for some reason

[dusty pollen]

is it meant to look like this?

[lethal walrus]

its meant to be the right

[dusty pollen]

oh I think I get what you mean now

I was just trying to figure out if discord messed up or if this was intentionally showing a before and after

[cinder karma]

Downsides of touching grass: I have ant bites everywhere

Up and down my legs

[lethal walrus]

oh no

[dusty pollen]

pillow I think your png printer is out of png ink

[rain apex]

What's the grand scheme goal here

[lethal walrus]

write png parser bc i felt like it

[steel kraken]

Wtf my phones power button fell out of my phone

[rain apex]

Pillow doing pillow2 i understand

[lethal walrus]

the full button or the cosmetic outside one

[rain apex]

It's on strike

[lethal walrus]

so far the working name is badpng, it is in fact, bad

[steel kraken]

Cosmetic outside one I guess but means I couldn't press the real button until I put it back in

I guess I should prioritise migrating over to the new phone

[lethal walrus]

this is probably bad right

oh no konsole doesnt zoom out enough

[dusty pollen]

my phone case's power button fell out a few days ago! maybe it's a conspiracy

[lethal walrus]

!!!

[lethal walrus]

nvm i just didnt insert newlines

[lethal walrus]

might be my first c++ project that isn't 50% makefile lol

nvm theres a couple not

[cinder karma]

This morning so far

1. Learned that if I want a feature to work correctly I have to pass in a specific flag
2. Forgot the thing i learned about exit codes i figured out last week

3. The verbose logging i want for a third thing can't be enabled at all

This is because I need a specific command line flag set and the tool just won't pass it over because why

[safe dragon]

my pet peeve is programs that don't warn you about unknown flags so you're just in the dark that you simply spelled something wrong

[cinder karma]

Right now I'm fighting escape characters again

You think the simulator could correctly interpret output from the synthesizer but no

\Bus[0] .A (see the extra space at the end) is invalid because why

Oh lol the docs have a typo in the command name

This is a great day

I get that we are using software developed in the 1970s but I thought the "" characters were known by then

Thank God I'm in python mostly and not tcl

[cinder karma]

Found a second (mostly harmless) typo in the docs lol

[lethal walrus]

it worked!! only 5mb of bad sectors and 16 hours of no successfull reads

[crystal wren]

Do we have very similarly named external (well, mine is) drives?

[lethal walrus]

possibly

[safe dragon]

16 hours without a single successful read is impressive

[crystal wren]

It's accurate because he big.

[lethal walrus]

it was on the retrying failed stage

[safe dragon]

I've never even considered changing the names

[lethal walrus]

gave up when it started going forward for the second time

hmmmmm

[cinder karma]

I name mine after animo acids

The big one is always tryptophan

You may call me a nerd

[thin estuary]

anime acids

[crystal wren]

You are truly a nerd, and we wouldn't have it any other way.

[red crest]

my drives are all named after mythical pokemon
my C: drive is Celebi

[sand frost]

Mine are named really boring stuff like “Elizabeth’s External SSD”

Maybe i should get more creative

[safe dragon]

damn I was just sent a job offer on LinkedIn to build AI chatbots in C# because of my experience at a company that... hasn't built any AI tool ever?

the given title sound so stupid ".NET developer AI"

not even ".NET AI developer" which would make infinitely more sense linguistically

[crystal wren]

Well, at least you know the job wasn't created by an AI.

[safe dragon]

an LLM definitely wouldn't have messed that one up

this job offer was written very poorly in general

it's in some very awkward but unnatural mix of Dutch and English and grammatically incorrect regardless of which you use as the basis

very strange

I didn't even know we were building AI software in C#

we don't have PyTorch

[sand frost]

Maybe they want you to be the AI

[safe dragon]

I'm afraid I was naturally born

I can't fulfill their wishes

[sand frost]

Mechanical Turk it up?

[safe dragon]

I'm afraid I can't do that

damn so that's what that's called

the incredible technological advancement of making people in poorer nations do it for scrap instead

[safe dragon]

I was so distracted by the job posting being bad that I forgot to actually reject their call request

done now

[cinder karma]

See i use nonpolar ones to indicate size and fun polar ones for special drives

Tryptophan is pretty big

Glycine is teensy

Proline is usually the name I use for an encrypted drive

I used acids for boot drives but I guess methione works better

[dusty pollen]

I once got sent a job offer to do a devops internship. They found me because my experience included a devops internship.

[cyan shadow]

This is a stone coal English thing lol

[safe dragon]

lmao

[safe dragon]

at its worst

[dusty pollen]

(well, I say I did a devops internship, because I did a lot of devops and my actual title was the most made up nonsense that included the word Innovation and I would like to have an actual keyword on my CV lmao)

[steel kraken]

I think my favorite title I've had so far was "SDK Integration Specialist"

[dusty pollen]

I've never heard of ai stuff being done in .net

[dusty pollen]

mine was stupider.

the problem is that if I give it it will doxx me I think

(not that I haven't already doxxed myself in various ways on this server like a million times, but afaik nobody has chased any of them down yet haha)

[cunning anchor]

what code does stardew use?

[worn remnant]

(#making-mods-general) stardew valley is written in C#

[cunning anchor]

@worn remnant thank you sir

[safe dragon]

it uses all the code

[crystal wren]

And technically some XML in the form of data to be fed into MonoGame's content pipeline, but that's not really code code.

[safe dragon]

evil xml

my previous job has ruined the entire idea of xml for me

all cause some old dude who worked there really really liked xml and found excuses to use it everywhere with his own custom made xml parser

[lethal walrus]

I just parse xml with beautifulsoup4 on the html setting and i don't need to worry about xml the rest of the time /gen

[safe dragon]

I wish

[devout vault]

me during my C++ days after writing https://github.com/spacechase0/XML-Parser

Probably not standard compliant either

[safe dragon]

ok but I imagine you didn't put this in a production codebase at work and I can also guarantee you this works better than his did even then

[devout vault]

[crystal wren]

Standards compliant is just another way of saying Big Compiler shill. /j

[devout vault]

Nah, this was Big XML (compliant with the XML spec)

[crystal wren]

Big Markup shill, then.

[safe dragon]

his was in no way standard compliant. But the writer he also made himself was equally wrong in the same ways

[crystal wren]

...Why was boost still in the CMake file?

I feel that one.

[safe dragon]

if you were to use C#'s built in xml parser it would've failed

[devout vault]

It's extra funny because I think boost has an xml parser

[crystal wren]

Imagine using Boost to write your own thing that Boost has. That'd be really funny.

[devout vault]

I wonder if boost has a zip file thing, and if I used boost for my zip file thing

(My zip file thing was not using boost apparently)

(But I did use it for other things back then, like boost filesystem)

Did c++ standard filesystem ever get made official in the spec or is it still a tech preview type thing

2017 apparently

Yes, it took until 2017 for c++ to get standard filesystem stuff

I wonder if boost is still using their own custom build system

[crystal wren]

What I would give for a camel or Pascal case C++ fork...

[devout vault]

Yep, they are

[devout vault]

Make a thing called CPlusPlus that is just a thin layer that transforms method names and such before compilation

[crystal wren]

Genuinely, yeah, that's all I want. I just find typing snake case so... fiddly?

[safe dragon]

always did think C++ needed an extra compilation step

[devout vault]

You could probably do it with clang

[devout vault]

Yeah I mean templates don’t slow it down enough. I need compilation to take longer for my bathroom breaks or YouTube breaks or video game breaks or …

[safe dragon]

or vacations

[sand frost]

Installing git on a new computer, hope I’m doing it right

I’m pretty sure I never had to do this on Mac, or if I did it was so long ago I don’t remember

[safe dragon]

I'm being punished for making fun of C++ compilation times

[dusty pollen]

technically content patcher is declarative programming in a sense /lh

[cinder karma]

Just mix and match within your codebase

Also I'm about to do something very dumb

[pliant snow]

I thought Macs came with git pre-installed

[sand frost]

that fits with my observations

but i've been cloning the same laptop since like 2014, so idk if that affects my observations

windows, i can solidly claim, does not come with git

[safe dragon]

the only one of the 3 not to come with git

I suppose it's possible to install linux without having git

[pliant snow]

Quite easily in fact

[safe dragon]

I mean true

[regal ingot]

I can't remember of OS X comes with git or if it just prompts you to install the developer tools (automated 1-click download and install, of course) the first time you run the command.

[devout vault]

No exception:

context.RegisterSourceOutput(valsProvider, static (ctx, node) => { ctx.AddSource(meow++ + ".test.cs", "//meow! " + node); });

Exception (null reference exception)

context.RegisterSourceOutput(valsProvider, static (ctx, node) => { if (node != null) ctx.AddSource(meow++ + ".test.cs", "//meow! " + node); });

MAke it make sense

The only difference is the if

...wait

Why does a a custom Equals need to check for null

[cinder karma]

I feel like a custom equals not handling null correctly is bad actually

Is this source generator?

[devout vault]

Yes. And I assumed the runtime wouldn’t bother with one being null is why I didn’t handle null at first

[steel kraken]

I knew extension methods had to handle it, surprised equals does

[devout vault]

Yeah

I've run into the extension method one before

[cinder karma]

The signature on object does have nullability

[devout vault]

Doesn't make it less dumb

[cinder karma]

it makes sense ish in an object oriented language where you have a left and right and they're not necessarily symmetric

tbh

what's silly is microsoft not taking care of that case

[steel kraken]

I can vaguely think of use cases where you would want an object to be considered equal to null

[cinder karma]

It's double fun because if you ise nullable (which is something I expect of Microsoft)....it...warns you

It's really a question about how you handle equality between disparite types

https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/cmp/trait.PartialEq.html

[devout vault]

Depending on what I comment out or call, the mysterious crashing test crashes at different points. The "best" case is it not crashing until after the last line of code (so presumably during cleanup? if only I could get anything beyond "it crashed" from VS)

It might be worth making a dummy project just to not have to deal with the test nonsense (= no stack traces or anything)

If only native code weren't involved

Oh well, this is later casey problem

[thin estuary]

i think the latter

[safe dragon]

shout-out to FastMail. I've never used it in my life but this has been nice https://github.com/fastmail/Squire

having to weed through a billion rich text editors with a variety of feature sets and pricing models has been a pain when literally all I needed was something at feature parity with the rtf editor in Microsoft Access

Honestly I expected this rich text editor feature to be an easy "download package from npm and plop it in" thing but I've gone through 7? different libraries

The popular ones are all way larger than I need while also being incredibly expensive and often actually entirely unusable since this web application needs to be able to run on air gapped intranet environments where doing a license check over the public net is not possible

almost all of them also have AI integration now it's wild

[crystal wren]

I want to ask an AI to generate the worst, most bad practice HTML it can. Which is sad, because even if I do, I technically can't share it here.

[safe dragon]

I'm glad I found this library though it has done exactly what I need and has been completely painless

not some overengineered html editor built to design entire websites or something

[crystal wren]

You don't want to use Macrome- Adobe Dreamweaver?

[pliant snow]

are people still using rtf

[safe dragon]

why would they have stopped

technically you even do if you ever send emails

[pliant snow]

why did they ever start

[safe dragon]

ProtonMail uses this very same Squire library I'm now also using

[pliant snow]

is that actually .rtf or something else

[safe dragon]

it's html

[crystal wren]

...was RTF just HTML?

[safe dragon]

even the ancient 30 year old Microsoft Access is html

just a subset

[pliant snow]

No, there was an .rtf format that I don't think was HTML

it mightve been some xml thing tho idk

[safe dragon]

idk about an rtf file format I didn't know that existed

[pliant snow]

I think it was a microsoft format, but it was the default file format in Apple's text editor for some reason for a while

[safe dragon]

seems Microsoft abandoned that one in 2008

[cinder karma]

Just send ascii art like god intended

[safe dragon]

u right

when something markets itself as a rich text editor nowadays they just mean some kind of web editor for content that can be displayed as html

sometimes they use a custom format for what actually gets saved to the database though which is annoying

Facebook's lexical library has some custom thing called Delta instead of html

[steel kraken]

.rtf was the favoured format for the cursed windows wordpad application which was a weird awkward free hybrid between notepad and full office word

[safe dragon]

I remember that application cause I'd open it by accident when looking for either notepad or word

[devout vault]

I thought rtf was a binary format for some reason

[pliant snow]

it might be

I recall fucking up and opening some in a text editor sometimes, which did not prove helpful

[crystal wren]

https://www.biblioscape.com/rtf15_spec.htm

Technically text based...

[worn remnant]

cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Text_Format

 This is some {\b bold} text.\par
 }```
vaguely TeX-adjacent (syntax)

[devout vault]

@dusty pollen You didn't think you could trick me into actually talking in #making-mods-general when I'm still hiatus-ing, did you? 😛

(I realize it was off topic for the thread though)

[dusty pollen]

technically the thread is in mmg too!

[devout vault]

Doesn't count

I am not perceived by the general modding public there

[sand frost]

somehow i missed you hiatus-ing, congrats on taking a break 😛

[devout vault]

I haven't done modding stuff since like November

Wooo mental health problems

[rain apex]

I thought you were doing mc stuff

[cursive sigil]

Doesn't count

[devout vault]

Correct

I'm also not in that community

And I still haven't gotten C#-to-Java working so I haven't actually done anything substantial there yet

[sand frost]

i totally thought i sent you a PR at some point 😛

but my grasp on time is loose and floppy

[devout vault]

Merging/releasing PRs doesn't count

[sand frost]

so who can say whether that was november

[devout vault]

I did some PRs within the past few months

I haven't done anything myself though

[sand frost]

I haven't either

I didn't log in to Nexus for 6 months

and they made me reactivate my account

and then of course i had a million notifs

i definitely hang out here more than i either play the game or make mods, at this point

[lethal walrus]

its a very popular library for private email - proton, fastmail and startmail all use it

[safe dragon]

yeah was nice to see

and now I use it too

except not for email

well

not entirely true

sometimes people paste emails into these fields

[cinder karma]

You were doing something with like pointers that seems cool!!!

That counts!!!!!

[devout vault]

The ECS thing recently? That's separate, and also is Suffering ™

Last night I skipped the wrapper code from the binding and just used the native calls from C# and it's still acting odd

(Odd = crashing at weird places)

[cinder karma]

Ngl I miss non work code

[devout vault]

Atra return arc?????

[sonic mirage]

We all knew the retirement was temporary

[cinder karma]

( but I personally don't think I'm like, productive or useful in a modding space.)

(I have projects i want to work on. The one in mind at top involves Go.)

[sonic mirage]

(that's an insane thing for you say given all you've contributed )

(even if you could completely disregard your code/mod contributions, your assistance to others in this community is still huge)

[cinder karma]

Yeah, but i was discussing the project i want to do with my coworker earlier today and like

[rain apex]

Atra gives me much morale support

[sonic mirage]

atra knits the community together

wait I missed a pun-portunity

atraknits.. the community together

[devout vault]

👀

[cinder karma]

I mean casey

How interested are you in the idea of automated testing

And test driven development applied to semiconductors

[crystal wren]

I mean it at least has a non-zero level of interest to it unlike regular TDD...

[devout vault]

My experience fighting with VS on it lately has left me a little sour

[devout vault]

That does sound kinda interesting. I assume you mean simulation, not the physical prototypes?

[cinder karma]

Yes!

[crystal wren]

It honestly sounds like something that just... should be being done?

[cinder karma]

It mostly is! I just want to hook into the version control system and automatically re run tests

[crystal wren]

See, that does sound like a fun project.

[fleet wren]

funny find of the day
https://github.com/reactjs/react.dev/issues/3896

[pliant snow]

um

[crystal wren]

What-

(Also Aquo, look, I'm Piccolo!)

[pliant snow]

t-the effect is uncanny

[crystal wren]

I know, everything is aligned so perfectly.

[devout vault]

I think I've seen that before.

We offer no guarantees
Them: Why don't you

Imagine if we expected internal stability for SDV modding down to the IL level (for transpilers). The game couldn't even get bugfixes if that were the case

Apparently C# union types had a demo shown at VS Live or something? (@ atra )
https://www.reddit.com/r/csharp/comments/1mj96yf/nominal_union_types_were_demoted_at_vs_live_at/

[cinder karma]

What

Ahhhhhh

Yayyyyy

[fleet wren]

Rust style (ok I know Rust didn't invent it but it's the first language I see it in) union + pattern matching is probably my favorite feature in it

exciting times

[lethal walrus]

i am very much enjoying kde (you can just add context menu things to dolphin very easily)

[crystal wren]

Yeah, I love me some KDE.

[devout vault]

(Ignoring the mythical third person who thinks of the animal)

[crystal wren]

I think of KDE, the emulator, and Ecco.

[lethal walrus]

i think of the emulator but because of wii not gamecube

[rain apex]

🐬

[devout vault]

insert new we are not the same meme

[safe dragon]

I think of dolphins

[fleet wren]

hmm this is also in nautilus I think?
(surprised it hasn't been removed for not fitting in the GNOME Vision™)

[lethal walrus]

probably is

[devout vault]

Wish I could customize my right click menu. Seriously, there's so much junk here

And multiple things there twice

[crystal wren]

I mean you can, it's just a nightmare.

[fleet wren]

"Ask Copilot"

[devout vault]

Why would I want to ask copilot about an image

The only thing I'd want to "ask copilot" for is for it to go away. And I wouldn't be just asking

[crystal wren]

Even looking at it will probably toggle Recall on nowadays, anyway.

[devout vault]

Ugh, recall

Did that get rolled out yet

I don't see a setting for it

[crystal wren]

Oh, it's fully out as far as I'm aware.

You just need an "AI capable" PC.

[devout vault]

Oh

Well I'm safe then probably

Besides my conversations being "recalled" by other people with it on anyways

Unrelated but I wish wind waker decomp was done. I wonder how long I'd fixate on modding it if so...

I wonder how much is doable with what's done so far. There's 47.40% of the code right now

I just saw a video of someone making ice trap chests (like in OOT) with it

[crystal wren]

I haven't even played the original yet!

Of... either...

[devout vault]

I haven't played OOT since becoming old enough to actually understand it 😛

[rain apex]

The year of linux desktop etc

[devout vault]

I've been considering doing a WW playthrough (maybe randomized), though

[devout vault]

But all my windows software 😔

[crystal wren]

The games are easy... the software less so.

[rain apex]

Wine trust

[devout vault]

Like C# presumably still isn't as good on not-windows

Even if it's better than it used to be

[rain apex]

It's finnne

[crystal wren]

It's... honestly pretty flawless in my experience.

Except Rider and SMAPI.

[rain apex]

It's only hard when I have to build other people's repos

[crystal wren]

Like PeacefulEnd, who has some Powershell in his builds.

[fleet wren]

I make all my mods with vim and dotnet build btw

yeah I have to fix capitalization + remove windows specific script in a couple repos

[crystal wren]

I make mine with GitHub! https://github.com/AlanDavison/StardewValleyMods/actions

[rain apex]

And SolutionDir

Oh yeah i wanted to set that up

Is there a guide for dummies

[devout vault]

I mean I do C# stuff outside of modding 😛

[crystal wren]

Honestly, I tend to have a nicer time with things that aren't modding with C# on Linux.

[crystal wren]

Not yet! But it is pretty simple, honestly.

[fleet wren]

(I remember khloe's build script depositing files in C:/ directly, which somehow translates to a folder named "C:/" in my mod folder. if it works it works)

[devout vault]

To be fair I can use whatever .net version I want outside of modding

[crystal wren]

We love PeacefulEnd, but...

https://github.com/Floogen/FashionSense/blob/84605b739bb26f8182563403c49bd5311f9df4cf/FashionSense/FashionSense.csproj#L106-L118

[cinder karma]

Huh

I need to put my linux partition back together

At the very least I need to do it before December

I'm gonna do aoc

[crystal wren]

Rider still can't attach to SMAPI.

[devout vault]

Too lazy to decipher, what does it do

[cinder karma]

Oh is that it?

[devout vault]

...kinda a deal breaker

[crystal wren]

Yup. It's a big ache for modding Stardew on Linux for me.

[rain apex]

But vsc can

[crystal wren]

Yup!

[rain apex]

I'm a weird person who doesn't use debugger or hot reload much tho

[devout vault]

Oh, sure, I guess I'll just make a vscode extension adding all the features I need to the IDE. /s

For me it depends on what I'm doing

UI stuff? PLEASE GIVE ME HOT RELOAD

[crystal wren]

Yeah, I don't need to use the debugger a lot. But when I do, I cry. /lh

[devout vault]

I remember at one point on mac being only able to use the debugger or hot reload

Much suffering was involved

But better than neither

[rain apex]

One time i tried to valgrind SMAPI (it didn't work)

[crystal wren]

The crazy part is that Rider can't attach to SMAPI to debug on Linux for me, but it can hot reload in play mode.

[sonic mirage]

incredible. "can I use unsafe thing safely" "no" "but why nottttt"

[pliant snow]

Ha we are not the same

[dusty pollen]

what if I think of the marine mammal

[devout vault]

#programmers-off-topic message

[safe dragon]

we're mythical 🙏

(I'm lying. My first thought was the file manager)

[sand frost]

Definitely the mammal

[dusty pollen]

what if I think of the marine mammal and also can't read, apparently

[sand frost]

Maybe that’s why we’re mythical

[pliant snow]

Then I have failed you

I should look at some good ideas for Dolphin right click options. It seems like a neat thing, but I never utilize any but the standard ones

[lethal walrus]

lot you can do with them https://develop.kde.org/docs/apps/dolphin/service-menus/

[pliant snow]

There's one I found online to convert between media formats, that's neat

[cinder karma]

Same ngl

[steel kraken]

Oh interesting, part of that proposal also has closed class hierarchy and closed enums to make pattern matching on those without the shiny new union easier

https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/tree/main/meetings/working-groups/discriminated-unions

[cinder karma]

18GB of ram used

Whooooo

[devout vault]

What an L for modders everywhere 😔

A question they mention is preventing it on an IL level to prevent other languages/compilers from subclassing anyways, but like... couldn't it just be enforced on the runtime level? (ie. when loading a class, check that it doesn't inherit from a closed class from another assembly)

[steel kraken]

I mean a project like stardew would just not use closed classes if they wanted that external extensibility, its opt-in to the closed behaviour

but closed enums are more interesting as even without cross-assembly stuff them pretty much being a dumb int is inconvenient most of the time

though looking at closed hierarchies closer, the root 'closed' node is also forced to be abstract, and the children of it aren't themselves closed.
so if something like BaseEnchantment was made a closed class (ignoring the fact its not currently abstract), you could still extend off BaseWeaponEnchantment unless that was also made closed.

[cinder karma]

So what's the difference between closed and sealed then

[steel kraken]

sealed is a dead end where nothing can extend it further, closed is that the first layer of children must be statically analysable within the assembly

[cinder karma]

Yeah no their example doesnt let you do the thing you describe

....or maybe I misread and it does

[steel kraken]

Allow closed as a modifier on classes. A closed class is implicitly abstract whether or not the abstract modifier is specified. Thus, it cannot also have a sealed or static modifier.

A class deriving from a closed class is not itself closed unless explicitly declared so.

[cinder karma]

Sorry

[steel kraken]

in their examples extending the children further doesn't break any of their examples anyway because the grandchild will still pattern match to the immediate child that is statically analyzable

I probably should have used the Tools example instead, as that one already is abstract, and mods could continue to extend GenericTool

[cinder karma]

I'm not sure I remember stardew code anymore anyways

[steel kraken]

I'm much more interested in the union stuff, though it feels kinda boring compared to what I'm used to in typescript

[cinder karma]

Lol

I like the adhoc unions

I'm happy about less type scrubbing

I'm super excited to learn more Go

[steel kraken]

but typescript has home field advantage that it has a type system overlaying a very dynamic runtime, while C# is forced to care about how it will still fit in bytes of memory

[cinder karma]

(Which is not a bad thing in my book)

[steel kraken]

the magic of typescript having unions and other stuff, is that when deserializing json over the wire, you can just immediately read the json and based on checking the union discriminint determine what other fields are safe to read

while the C# version requires you to think in C# types still, not the pure data

[cinder karma]

I like c# enums

[dusty pollen]

so it's a bit like private vs internal but for extending instead of access?

[steel kraken]

Kinda yeah, but without stuff like InternalsVisibleTo (and the hacky InternalsVisibleFrom) working.
its strictly to have compiler guarentees that the switch statement has checked very possible case without a fallback

[supple ether]

looking at this again and wow nominal unions look awesome. That's pretty much exactly what I would want out of discrimanted unions in c#.

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6532 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1402716580483432569)

[cinder karma]

2028 for the next demon hunters movie

[rain apex]

Are they gonna hunt kpop or a different genre

[fleet wren]

Eurobeat Demon Hunters

[rain apex]

https://tenor.com/view/deja-vu-anime-car-gif-24099480

[cinder karma]

Fuck yeah

[dusty pollen]

pop punk/punk rock demon hunters would be a bit tricky. you'd start having regular bands pretend to be demons for the aesthetic

[cunning anchor]

i'm interested in making characters similar to stardew valley any idea how i can?

[cinder karma]

Wdym characters

[supple ether]

Do you mean like programming npcs in a social sim game?

[cunning anchor]

yeah like coding a entire character

I'm a total noob to coding so figured id start small 😄

[supple ether]

Well, that depends mostly on your design requirements and whatever language and framework/engine you're using (if any)

The first step to programming anything is figuring out what exactly it is you're trying to make.

(or having someone else figure it out and tell you.)

[cunning anchor]

well ahh simple graphics like 2D

i have unity unreal and microstudio

godot as well chat gpt said microstudio

[cinder karma]

Would renpy be a good place to start?

[cunning anchor]

what is renpy?

[supple ether]

It's a python game engine for visual novels.

[cunning anchor]

ahh ok im not planing visual novels anytime soon

[supple ether]

Are you looking to do something where you just talk to people, or do you want something where you actually walk around to talk to people?

[cinder karma]

(I suggested it because it's a lot simpler iirc)

[cunning anchor]

na side scroller controllable character in 2D or whatever stardew valley characters are

[supple ether]

It definitely is

[rain apex]

Well if you want top down stuff maybe rpgmaker or gamemaker to start

But tools don't matter as much as actually doing it

[supple ether]

Godot has template projects for sidescroll and topdown game projects, which could make a good starting point and help you learn how the engine works

[cunning anchor]

@supple ether oh nice i'll try that

[supple ether]

There's also several dialogue addons you can use, the most popular of which is Dialogic afaik.

[cunning anchor]

oh cool so these are similar to blue prints then?

[supple ether]

Godot uses gdscript, c#, or c++ for scripting. It doesn't have flowchart/graph-based scripting like unreal does

[cinder karma]

Flowchart based scripting hisssss

[cunning anchor]

haha ok

[supple ether]

Yeah I'm not big on it either

[cunning anchor]

i'll give Godot a shot this evening

[cinder karma]

The subtle differences between system verilog and verilog ams can go die today

Ahhhhhhhh

[crystal wren]

Godot does also have a point and click adventure framework that I believe needs no/minimal coding. Though I've never used it to know how good/straightforward it is.

https://github.com/godot-escoria

[cunning anchor]

hey that sounds fun to

[crystal wren]

I mean I think point and click adventure games are one of the best ways to tell a story full stop, so I'm heavily biased towards them.

[cunning anchor]

yeah thats true.

[cinder karma]

God i hateeeeee functions with more than like 9 parameter

[supple ether]

It's evil

At a certain point it is better to just have state encapsulation objects

[cinder karma]

This is verilog so I have fewer options but structs exist!

[worn remnant]

honestly if i get up to, like, five, i start to think "maybe i should use a struct for this"

[pliant snow]

I think if a function needs 9 parameters at all something has gone wrong

make that into like 4 functions

[devout vault]

Let me just combine eight of those into a bit field. No objections then, right?

[cinder karma]

(Can't)

I lied about it being a function

It's actually a verilog task

A struct is possible

[cinder karma]

Well it is verilog so technically that would be a packed struct

[steel kraken]

Its very common in js to just pack all the parameters into an object

and destructure it in the function definition

the side effect is it makes the 'parameter' names part of the api proper

[sonic mirage]

Yeah I often will make JS functions that have a few required params and then all the optional "params" are provided to the function via an options object, where each recognized property of the object has some default if not provided in the given object.

Prevents parameter bloat

[dusty pollen]

does js even fail if you don't supply all the params to an object

[sonic mirage]

No, but the object is always merged with a default options object almost immediately inside the function, so then you use the output object from that throughout the function

You can either assign that back to the given object or to a new object for clarity. Every once in awhile I'll need to know what was given rather than the merge result value, so I tend to merge them into a new object

When you have JS helper functions spread through a codebase, using the options object prevents you from having to update all of its calls if you add an optional new feature to the helper

[cinder karma]

Yeah, the **kwargs model in python

[dusty pollen]

I asked my question wrong because my brain wasn't working lmao

I meant does js even fail if you don't supply all the params to a *function

[steel kraken]

you can pass whatever arguments you want to any function, its the functions job to give a shit

[dusty pollen]

yeah that's what I thought lmao

I love js sometimes, its complete refusal to error out is impressive

[steel kraken]

don't fill enough arguments and the remainder will be undefined, give it too many and the function doesn't care, and in non-strict mode iirc there is the magic arguments variable to access the rest

[dusty pollen]

every bizarre js behaviour I joke about is the result of someone at some point going "but what if that DIDN'T cause an error"

[steel kraken]

for the most part its fine, particularly in typescript

[dusty pollen]

oh I'm being serious when I say I love it

it's very convenient

(and makes sense for a language that originally was meant almost entirely for client side web dev stuff afaik)

[steel kraken]

its from a similar era of php which had a very similar philosophy

[dusty pollen]

yup

at the end of the day you don't want bad user input to crash your entire website

[safe dragon]

I've hit my first annoyance between the old access rich text fields and the html editor thing I've made as a replacement

access uses HTML4

for the most part that doesn't cause any issues cause the browser just supports it anyway even if it's all deprecated

however... the editor library I'm using doesn't understand background color styling on a font tag and just throws it away

wait no actually... Chrome is the one that doesn't understand a background color on a font tag

maybe access was just breaking the spec completely

maybe this worked in internet explorer

ugh whatever. No one used that anyway

[sonic mirage]

Font tags give me flashbacks to having to work on Sharepoint nonsense. "MSO" inline styles as far as the eye can see.

[cinder karma]

I use them

Sorru

Background text highlighting not font tags

Ahhhhh

Level of tired is approaching "walk into closed doors" tired fast

[safe dragon]

oh that's ok I will still support highlighting just not the old access way

access practically hides that it can even do this

you have to select text and then a little hover window appears with that option

mostly unrelated to the previous conversation but I'm surprised this application still kinda functions

everything about it feels horrendously sluggish

[sonic mirage]

We just had to migrate a client out of running their whole company out of one access db before it got too big and imploded

[safe dragon]

can't even scroll without it completely glitching out

[sonic mirage]

they had to keep compressing it constantly or it'd go over the max size

[safe dragon]

thankfully the database in this case is oracle which has its issues but not pressing ones

they migrated away from the access database itself 20 years ago

[sonic mirage]

And this was Access 2003 or something, so we had to do some driver wizardry to get them over into a modern database

[safe dragon]

this is uh

access 365?

[sonic mirage]

that's really old /s

[safe dragon]

the executable is called access 2013 but it claims to be access 365

[sonic mirage]

well everything is 365 copilot for business 365 cocopilotpilot now

[safe dragon]

the application is over 30 years old now and is barely holding on to life

[sonic mirage]

relatable

jk

[safe dragon]

unfortunately they used access forms and reports very extensively so that's been a pain to migrate

the reports are still a bit of an open question

[sonic mirage]

I don't think our client's site had that, but they did lots of access-specific queries, including in tons of stored procs that we had to migrate

[safe dragon]

I'm very very thankful that I don't have to migrate the database side of this immediately

[steel kraken]

tbh I prefer a load bearing access database over a load bearing excel spreadsheet

particulary excel spreadsheets being emailed back and forth rather than centrally versioned in sharepoint/onedrive

[safe dragon]

I'd prefer neither but unfortunately my users are engineers who love excel

so the replacement needs to support at least some of their funky handrolled excel workflows

[steel kraken]

it doesn't help that powerbi is the flavor of the month and its pretty much just excel as a service

[cinder karma]

I see your centrally versioned in SharePoint

[safe dragon]

hey we've got a job posting open right now for a Power BI Specialist

[cinder karma]

And I raise you 23 different copies in SharePoint so you're never sure you have the right one

May I point out we are a company of 39 people

[steel kraken]

or that one person that makes an offline copy "so they can work more efficiently on it" and then make it someone elses problem to resolve the conflicts

[safe dragon]

SharePoint has been a massive thorn in our sides as we've been migrating away from a 2013 version

[sonic mirage]

I'm going to have to start doing Power BI things it seems. Not looking forward to it, as the previous person took basically zero notes on what they were doing or where they had things

[cinder karma]

You know what is worse

[sonic mirage]

Previous person was at a client's location and retired

[cinder karma]

We have latex documents in SharePoint

I keep threatening to just version them in svn