programmers-off-topic

[safe dragon]

yeah I did remember right

I don't like exceptions but I do end up using them sometimes in my APIs with an exception filter to catch them with a nice response

really tho

.NET 10 doesn't truly exist till Stephen Toub makes a blog about it

his blogs probably were directly responsible for like halving my AoC runtime last year

without them I'd probably not even have known half these things exist

[cinder karma]

Net 10 doesn't exist until I get to use it

[safe dragon]

even if I'm already using it

[cinder karma]

I'm the only person who's opinion matters. We need to figure out a way for me to use net 10

[safe dragon]

do you even still use C# for anything

that'd be step 1

[cinder karma]

No

[safe dragon]

a minor hurdle

a C# to verilog compiler

totally makes sense

[cinder karma]

There is actually a more c like hardware design language

[safe dragon]

cerilog

[cinder karma]

There are also Haskell to verilog transpilers

I just discovered a Go to verilog transpiler

More shit I'll never get to use 😦

[safe dragon]

[dusty pollen]

I just finished my satsolver based sudoku solver, very fast would recommend (and it's only... 11k cnf clauses)

[safe dragon]

now do 16x16

I had to write a few sudoku solvers back in uni

the algorithmic ones I was good at but I had to do one with simulated annealing and I'm still fairly certain I just didn't implement it correctly

[dusty pollen]

it wouldn't actually be any more difficult since I made myself a cnf generator, I just cba

the reason I wanted to try it is that my logic professor said that they once did a hackaton to try to write the fastest sudoku solver and a sat solver implementation won over all the algorithmic ones because sat solvers are that optimised

[cinder karma]

Wow

[dusty pollen]

(it was probably also way faster to code, I just wrote mine in an hour lmao)

[cinder karma]

I think there is a more basic like one too

But you don't want that one

[fleet wren]

dang, dwarf fortress has lua modding now
if I'm not already occupied with SDV modding brainworms for the rest of time this would have been the moment I get DF modding brainworms

hmm actually it(s current form) looks a lot weaker than I expected

[cinder karma]

Lua hiss

Hisssss

I would literally rather 🐍

Also I've never played dwarf fortress

[fleet wren]

it has farming, raising animals, mining, fishing and combat

literally SDV

[idle moss]

ty for the reports guys

[fleet wren]

why mr beast anyway, is it cuz of the zoomers

[fleet wren]

anyway in SDV terms it's like if you can make C# mods, but you can only use the AssetRequested event to target Data/Objects

here's to hoping the API becomes more powerful in the future

[cinder karma]

Who is Mr beast

[fleet wren]

someone who's ontologically evil (/s but not really)

[cinder karma]

All I know of him is that he is a youtiber who makes videos

And has no other talents but a lot of money

[fleet wren]

well that's basically it

[safe dragon]

I suppose there's talent in using all that money to optimize viewership

I wish he didn't but it is impressive

[dusty pollen]

he’s known for being very very into optimising himself for the algorithm, yeah

he got his start by doing things like streaming himself saying the same word repeatedly for like ten hours

on an unrelated note, update on the cipher from earlier: my sister found the alphabet. We are no closer to knowing what it means though

(the alphabet is tifinagh, a native moroccan alphabet?)

[cinder karma]

Well, the average youtuber i watch is someone who is very talented in their field who also makes bideos

Videos

Ie, I watch a potter. A ballerina. A hoof trimmer

A chef. A psychologist.

Someone who is into lifting weights

Fitness Marshall ofc

Anatomy lecture

They are interesting because they have interesting skills

Not because they are on YouTube tbh

[cyan shadow]

Don't forget Ask A Mortician

One of the coolest niche channels out there lol

[cinder karma]

Also captain steeve!

Like I'm sure these people are great at YouTube on top of being great at their day jobs

But I care because day job, you know?

[sand frost]

i watch this one sometimes

but i also watch people who are just youtubers, like tom scott

[red crest]

which potter

[cinder karma]

https://youtu.be/bQUKgAR1jWM?si=y-FFSySU8ey7sOQp

[sand frost]

I definitely thought this video was about javelins for a while

javelins, spears, sticks,e tc

[autumn tangle]

@cinder karma I love how each time when I come back this server you have a different username and avatar, but I can always tell it's atravita lol

[safe dragon]

brand consistency

[cinder karma]

It's the same cat as my profile picture for lkke two years now

The dumb names will continue until they arent funny anymore

One day I'll get to university physics:(

[rain apex]

Cant wait until atra picks a major

[crystal wren]

Universityth grade knitting.

[devout vault]

Or just keep the numbers

Undergrad is (on average) 13th-16th grade

17+ is grad school

[cinder karma]

Damn I'm old

[dusty pollen]

fellow nerds who liked the blue prince

are there any games you'd consider similar/recommend to someone else who liked it (well, liked most of it)

[crystal wren]

If you like board games, Betrayal at House on the Hill, easily! That's exactly what's put Blue Prince right at the top of my list to play next.

Not single player, which is a downside, but it is great.

[dusty pollen]

I don't have the patience to play games with other people unfortunately

[cinder karma]

You two should do a British stardew Minecraft group

[dusty pollen]

I've never played minecraft though

[cinder karma]

Can I bully you into it

[dusty pollen]

also if anyone really wanted one of pathos' prime games but didn't get it, I may be able to give you the same game so lmk, it looks like I have access to the same offer

depends, have you played it?

[cinder karma]

No

[dusty pollen]

then no

[cinder karma]

Awwww

[dusty pollen]

why do you want to convince me to play a game you don't play, anyway

[cinder karma]

I try to convince people to do things

You want to finish the subtle gay sweater for me?

[dusty pollen]

I have my own subtle grey sweater I haven't even started yet also I think I got some kind of rsi in my wrist

[cinder karma]

Not subtle grey

Subtle gay

Little rainbow flecks

[dusty pollen]

I meant subtle gay but typed subtle grey because my brain is mush

[cinder karma]

Don't get me wrong: I also have obnoxious gay knitwear

[dusty pollen]

oh wow, steam's "interactive recommender" that's hidden in a submenu somewhere is so much better than their discovery queue

[cinder karma]

Is it an ai chatbot

Both my music player and audible grew ai recommendation chatbots lately

[dusty pollen]

no, it's genuinely a lot better! it's a recommendation list that's actually tuned to what kind of games you've bought and that has sliders to adjust the weights for popularity and age

[safe dragon]

oh yeah that

I sometimes end up there and don't know how

[dusty pollen]

main store page > my store > interactive recommender

[safe dragon]

god that's hidden

[dusty pollen]

the initial results from the sliders' default settings were genuinely all games that were recommended to me by humans or that I've considered

[cinder karma]

Friends....is league of legends kpop

[safe dragon]

yes

[dusty pollen]

exactly! and my discovery queue is always 100% "because it's popular" so it's useless

[safe dragon]

KDA is a kpop group of league characters isn't it

yup

[cinder karma]

What

[safe dragon]

I mean I kinda already own half of these, just either through family sharing or on different platforms

[crystal wren]

Filtering to newer... look at number two.

[safe dragon]

I'm watching a playthrough of blue prince so I haven't actually played it myself

it's also on my recommended for new games

[dusty pollen]

I assume you bought it elsewhere? (or you haven't actually played it yet, in which case )

[crystal wren]

...I have not played it yet.

[dusty pollen]

noooo it was so fun playing without knowing anything haha

[safe dragon]

tbh it starting to look tedious as they're going through trying to figure out everything

[dusty pollen]

play it! the later puzzles are a bit tedious but I had so much fun over the first hundred or so hours

[safe dragon]

hundred damn

[dusty pollen]

yeah the late parts get tedious but the early parts were great

[safe dragon]

I've been struggling to get through any game for ages now

[dusty pollen]

I very rarely play games for this long

[safe dragon]

I play runescape

I've learnt that after work I just don't have the energy to play games

interactive recommender is very good

[cinder karma]

What's blue prince

[safe dragon]

a puzzle roguelike

😌

[crystal wren]

Damn it, it's not on the Humble store.

[cinder karma]

Weird

[safe dragon]

tbh the blue prince playthrough i'm watching is starting to bother me cause there's a bunch of leads they don't seem figure out or follow up on

I wanna know dang it

[dusty pollen]

have you figured those out yet or are you just frustrated they haven't?

if you want you can dm me and I'll tell you

[safe dragon]

I mean I haven't really "figured out" anything beyond some hints they haven't done anything with

[dusty pollen]

feel free to dm me any questions/leads you want the answers to anyway haha

[cinder karma]

This programming language feels like five people who hated each other wrote it

[safe dragon]

might be true

[fleet wren]

C++? /s

[safe dragon]

that's like hundreds of people who hated each other

[fleet wren]

though that's more like a hundred- yea

[cinder karma]

No, c++ was written by a college committee

Verilog was written by five people who hate each other

There are at least two different ways that are just slightly different and not interchangeable for everything

And whether or not I can use environment variables is always a crapshoot

[thick hull]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-hacking-silly-cat-hacker-cat-hacker-gif-14852445362476137270

I hate it here

[dusty pollen]

javascript was written purely accidentally by process of natural selection

[supple ether]

Wasn't og Javascript written in 7 days or something

[cinder karma]

Python is just what the interpreter decided to do

C# was written by people pleasers

[supple ether]

Not the gil! Not the gil!

[dusty pollen]

gil?

[supple ether]

Global Interpreter Lock

[cinder karma]

Gil is in python you know

Giving you monster hunter goals

[dusty pollen]

I'm pretty sure java was a punishment for our sins

[supple ether]

No matter how much threading you do, python can only ever have one interpreter thread running at a time

[dusty pollen]

I feel like that's for the best

if there's any language I don't trust with concurrency (and there are many), it's python

[cinder karma]

Have you ever used an atomic in python

[dusty pollen]

as far as I'm concerned everything in python is atomic

[supple ether]

I use python for limited shell scripting which tbh seems like the best thing it's suited for

[dusty pollen]

I also use it for scripting

not really shell scripting but any time I need to throw code at some data

that's why I love jupyter notebooks

[safe dragon]

I thought I read somewhere that python introduced some experimental feature to disable the GIL

[supple ether]

The most horrible thing I've done with python was writing a build script for a c# desktop app so I could build to every platform at once, zip it, and set the appropriate execution flags for *nix

[dusty pollen]

doesn't sound too horrible

I just would have instinctively done that with zsh

once the 1.6.16 event syntax is stable (dangerously on topic, oops) I might make a python script to update events

[supple ether]

Yeah except the zip part was slow because I had to manually assemble the zips so I could set execution flags on specific files while zipping (bc windows doesn't know about x flags and won't let you set them), which was jank and also took forever because python, so I had to run it in parallel, but because of the way python works I accidentally created a fork bomb essentially and it took me an hour to figure out how to not do that

[dusty pollen]

oof

the solution is clearly just uninstalling windows /j

[supple ether]

Every day I am more tempted

[dusty pollen]

I have windows on my main pc now (because fatigue issues mean I'm not really in a position to set up my arch install again) and I hate how in my face it is, I keep being reminded that I'm on windows and can't do things I want

whenever I go back to one of my laptops things just make sense to me

[supple ether]

I don't mind windows for the most part. The main thing that annoys me (aside from stability issues in recent updates) is how unpleasant the terminal is to use

[crystal wren]

The main thing keeping me away from it nowadays is the horrendous performance for the simple things... consistently across multiple computers and multiple installs on each for me.

If not for that, I'd genuinely be happy using it right now.

[supple ether]

Bash is just so infinitely more useful and elegant than windows cli, and it doesn't use backslashes for paths and ^ for escapes

[safe dragon]

idk any of the scripting languages but I can use bash slightly less incompetently

all of them look bizarre though

bash doesn't really make any sense to me but I've also never tried to learn it

[dusty pollen]

I'm just so used to linux allowing me to do basically whatever I want that every time I can only postpone something or it's impossible to disable something I get irritated

like I don't want this icon on my taskbar! but you can't get rid of it!

[safe dragon]

windows updates being forced never bothered me much since I'm the type to run my updates daily regardless

but the content of those updates...

[dusty pollen]

I think they annoy me because I've had enough fail to not want to deal with them lmao

[safe dragon]

when I had a small ssd in my laptop windows update would very reliably fail every time

I'd then have to clear like 40 GB worth in recovery files windows built up and then there would be enough space again for windows update to work

[thin estuary]

what do you mean, i don't have it

[dusty pollen]

exactly, and I think I have like... 5gb available right now?

[dusty pollen]

are you on 10 or 11? I'm on ten

it's the notification center icon

[thin estuary]

11

[safe dragon]

isn't that just the notification center icon

yeah

[thin estuary]

ah that's what it is

[safe dragon]

should always be there in the bottom right

[thin estuary]

this may explain it rofl

[safe dragon]

yeah that's the same thinig

and I relate

"you never react to this type of notification do you want to mute them"

[sand frost]

microsoft usually annoys me via outlook

but i don't love windows either

[safe dragon]

outlook confuses me greatly

this is my first job where I've used it and whenever I google a guide on where to find some basic feature I need all the guides have a different UI than I do

and the guides don't have the same UI either

[dusty pollen]

what drives me crazy is the onedrive integration

that's impossible to fully disable even if you uninstall onedrive

[safe dragon]

onedrive is completely disabled at work so idk it

[dusty pollen]

even if it's disabled, your libraries are still in special onedrive folders for some reason

[safe dragon]

incredible

my favorite thing is honestly that I get Game Pass ads on my work laptop

why are there game pass ads on a Windows 11 Pro license

the xbox app is pre-installed

it's great

I can't visit itch.io without being blocked but the xbox app just chills there

[sand frost]

I think they just shuffle things around every few years

i had an internship where the latest version of outlook simply refused to launch (crash on launch) on my work laptop

IT reverted a version but then I couldn't reserve rooms

[dusty pollen]

once I started having to figure out what the ribbon was I lost faith in msoffice

[safe dragon]

my outlook just crashes when I try to set an Out of Office message

idk why

it just does

it works for everyone else

[sand frost]

if I hadn't been an outlook user for this long I would be surprised

[safe dragon]

also please someone tell me. How do I check who the participants are in a scheduled meeting in the calendar in outlook

I've had to switch to the Teams calendar and open the meeting there to see the participant list

I admittedly haven't google that one but I feel like I've tried everything that makes sense

but tbh it took me like 4 different sessions of attempting to find the setting that would group conversations in outlook

[dusty pollen]

unrelated but the people who freak out about transhumanism haven't considered how nice it would be to be able to mod our own bugs out

what if I can make my eyes NOT unfocus whenever I have brain fog?

[safe dragon]

alas that would be a "wouldn't it be nice if" where reality would be disappointing

[dusty pollen]

I'm just saying I would like to have the option for the issues with my body to be because I ran some very inadvisable code on it

[sand frost]

i think it's impossible ngl

i just went and checked my own calendar

[safe dragon]

but why

[sand frost]

oh wait no

[safe dragon]

it's visible in Teams

[sand frost]

if you expand the event

[safe dragon]

it's clearly tracked

[sand frost]

it appears down the side

[dusty pollen]

must not be an essential feature /j

[safe dragon]

how do I expand the event. I don't have my work pc open but I never got that far

[sand frost]

the little double arrow in the top right

disclaimer: i use outlook exclusively in browser

[safe dragon]

hrm

this UI looks completely foreign to me

I'll go on another hunt for this tomorrow when I'm on my laptop again

having to open teams just to see the participant list has not been optimal

we used google calendar at my old job and I don't think there was ever a moment where I struggled to find anything I needed

only annoyance was like "oh it was x who scheduled this weekly meeting but he's on vacation rn so we can't cancel it"

[cinder karma]

Disclaimer: I'm using classic, not modern

But if in outlook I click on the meeting, then switch to the scheduling assistant

It tells me the people involved and their freedom

[safe dragon]

wtf is the scheduling assistant

oh it's vaguely where the room finder is

[cinder karma]

The room finder?

[safe dragon]

room finder is to find a meeting room that isn't occupied at that moment

and then reserve it

which doesn't seem to work half the time

[sand frost]

yeah that was the bit that didn't work for me after outlook had to be downgraded

but luckily we don't use that system here so i never have to worry about it!

[safe dragon]

I love the room finder cause it brings up a popup that's clearly like 10 years older than the rest of the UI

classic windows

[cinder karma]

I don't even have a room finder

[safe dragon]

first job where I've had to use all of the office stuff and all of them have been notably worse than the programs I used for it in the past

[sand frost]

I have "Scheduling Assistant"

[cinder karma]

Same. Scheduling Assistant

[safe dragon]

I'll look tomorrow

at this point I feel like my work built their own custom outlook UI

it looks nothing like the older ones I saw on my family's computers either

[cinder karma]

You might just be dutch

Also I'm in classic outlook

[safe dragon]

but outlook is set to american english

[cinder karma]

We can't use the new one

[safe dragon]

I think I'm in classic

[cinder karma]

I have both outlook (classic) and outlook (new)

[sand frost]

I hated when teams had classic and new

They’re both bad

[cinder karma]

But we use outlook (classic)

[cyan shadow]

I despise outlook

Horrid software

[safe dragon]

teams is just broken for me idk. Half the time it simply just doesn't use the audio device it itself claims it is using

[cinder karma]

Same tbh

[safe dragon]

imagine a world where microsoft was actually good at designing software

like they were still market leader but also good at it

we wouldn't be forced to use terrible software just cause they made it

we'd be forced to use good software

[cinder karma]

I used to be a Google believer, crumble

Tbh the new YouTube AI music recommendation system is weird

[fleet wren]

(in my opinion) anything google made/purchased before 2010 (and survives til now) is still good
(even search, if you pretend that ai panel doesn't exist)

[devout vault]

Tag filters and exclusions? This sounds amazing. Like I don't already have 651 games on my wishlist

[devout vault]

Does this mean me trying to use C# in the JVM is like trying to get the benefits from sinning without actually doing it

[devout vault]

I don't have any icon where I remember that, I think something I installed with windhawk must have hidden it

[dusty pollen]

no you're trying to avoid being punished for your sins while still sinning

[devout vault]

Look, I get that using java lets you add circles to minecraft, which clearly is incredibly sinful

[cinder karma]

Because I'm not allowed static variables I'm going with the dangerous technique of hierarchical lookup

Encapsulation? What's that?

[cinder karma]

It's still the best search engine, the hottest email and calender, best navigation

I just feel like everything new they added has been....weird or barely functional

Super interesting because the normal recommendations engine is great

The AI one is pretty slow, crashes , and doesnt have memory

[fleet wren]

but it doesn't generate Hype™ you see, and with Hype™ comes investor money and rocketing stock prices

[dusty pollen]

I feel like search has actually gotten worse since the addition of ai

I get less and less stuff that's directly related to what I searched and more stuff that's vaguely on a related topic

even outside the gemini box

[fleet wren]

(NVIDIA is now the world's most valuable company, simply because we're in a gold rush, and they sell the best shovels)

[cinder karma]

About half the Google suggested news articles are like

AI generated slop

[sand frost]

Agreeeee

[cinder karma]

Verification academy also has this weird thing where people will literally answer quests with chatgpt output?

If i wanted to ask chatgpt I would asked chatgpt?

It sucks because I'll be going through old forum posts hoping for the thing i want to exist to exist and it's just pages and pages of nonsense?

[worn remnant]

(who wants to read a long, sobering ed zitron piece that starts off with this particular bit of bad news?)

In simpler terms, 35% of the US stock market is held up by five or six companies buying GPUs.

[fleet wren]

truly dire times

might not even top 10 most fucked things about the US economy though

[cinder karma]

Chat, what is this "pickleball"

[strange copper]

Pickleball is silly low stakes tennis and it's fun

Professional players probably dont like this interpretation but thats my interpretation

[cinder karma]

We are trying to make more irl friends again

Dont tell me I need to do the obvious

Also. It's sad that no one is offering me a free month of netflix

I've never used Netflix before and yet neither my phone plan or any of my credit cards have a promo for me

[worn remnant]

pickleball:tennis :: backyard cookout badminton:badminton

[cinder karma]

This sat question seems hard

[sand frost]

Pickleball is like tennis but with less “thwack” noise and like badminton but with a ball

It’s popular among old people

[worn remnant]

"real" badminton is played indoors and is quite different (mostly, faster) than outdoor old people badminton.
sincerely, a badminton enjoyer

[cinder karma]

Well I'm old so

[sand frost]

Perfect!

[steel kraken]

but you are only in 10th grade

[cinder karma]

I'm very dumb

[dusty pollen]

there was an attempt to teach badminton at my school's PE lessons that would always get derailed by the word shuttlecock

[safe dragon]

I was naive and thought I'd be pretty decent at badminton cause I played tabletennis competitively

I was very wrong

[devout vault]

Addendum: Since stars go out from drowning damage, making a dyson sphere around it and enchanting it with Respiration makes the star last longer. (Don't ask where all the XP for the enchanting came from, though...)

(Yes I randomly thought about this again a month later. Yes it's odd that it apparently was a month exactly after mentioning it before)

[fleet wren]

I thought stars die from blunt force trauma (fusing iron)

I see twas a joke

[cinder karma]

I love nuclear physics

[fleet wren]

nuclear physics is quite funky
why is iron the most stable element
why is technetium like that™ despite being so light
(I'm sure those are explained I'm just too dum to go read them up)

[devout vault]

Technetium sounds like some kind of sci-fi "smart" alloy

Never heard of that one before

[fleet wren]

it's the lightest element of which every known isotope is radioactive
which is strange because it has a relatively low atomic number, and surrounded by miles of stable elements

[steel kraken]

isn't iron a nice power of 2 or something with its electrons or something

[cinder karma]

I don't think we actually know why nuclei are stable

Is some magic number theory

[steel kraken]

all I know about iron is that due to its electron shells or whatever it becomes a magnet from the weak force or whatever just amplifying from all the fields aligning and amplifying

[cinder karma]

I'm not kidding

It's literally this

Magic number (physics) - Wikipedia https://share.google/6afhia2D7ots3TuFS

[cursive sigil]

does this qualify you for 11th grade physics?

[devout vault]

If my 6th math teacher (right before starting homeschooling) wouldn't let me work ahead then atra can't either

[sand frost]

only tangentially related, but i made my students look at a graph of element # vs. element density to see if they can find any patterns and while there are broad trends, there's also a large pinch of "who knows"

i tuck this under "quantum nonsense" and tell them if they want to know more they have to ask a physicist or a chemist

[cinder karma]

Something something fantasy is science we don't understand

[fleet wren]

I discovered this the other day and it's really interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weakless_universe

[pliant snow]

a weakless universe you say

https://tenor.com/bAvei.gif

[cinder karma]

One of the tools in the tool chain is named dracula

[cinder karma]

....windows 10 end of life?

[fleet wren]

you can buy the Enterprise LTSC 2021 edition for longer support

"Which company is this for" "Errm, My House LTD."

I use Linux btw

[modest jewel]

OH mecka lol

[devout vault]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNtJP6EHBik

I usually don't laugh out loud from her videos

[cinder karma]

https://www.reddit.com/r/gardening/comments/1lmljwo/giant/

I did not know a sunflower got that big

[dusty pollen]

I like her she tends to be roughly the right level of confused

[dusty pollen]

did you know they only turn to face the sun when they aren't fully grown yet

[livid coyote]

Can someone tell me the kind of coding program I should learn first that most people will hire for?

[dusty pollen]

are you learning to code purely with the aim of getting hired for it?

(I wouldn't recommend that as a career plan at this point)

[sonic mirage]

Hard disagree

[dusty pollen]

I recommend it for anyone who likes cs!

[sonic mirage]

Oh I see

[dusty pollen]

just not as a "this is an easy job to make money in" career

which is how a lot of people used to advertise it

[cinder karma]

Love to spend the day fighting the stupid simulator

[sonic mirage]

Yeah I understand what you're saying

[cinder karma]

And then realize I'm doing things absolutely the wrong way 5 seconds after stepping away from my desk

I'm blaming the broken AC unit

[dusty pollen]

real

[sonic mirage]

I'm just really tired of the "AI is gOnNa tekk yurr JERBS" nonsense

[dusty pollen]

oh no lmao

if it does, we're going to get them right back real quick

[safe dragon]

The most "hirable" languages would be the "enterprise" languages like C#, Java, Javascript, Python, C++ etc. In all cases you'd be learning some field more specific than just a language though

[dusty pollen]

I meant more the general reduction of tech staff ever since the pandemic making the industry less of a "guaranteed job" kind of place, to the extent that it ever was one

[sonic mirage]

If you're looking for a good intro language that will best demonstrate the basics for you, I always recommend C#

[dusty pollen]

I got so tired of hearing "you should learn to code to make lots and lots of money" after a certain point lmao

[sonic mirage]

Lots of PHP out there, too, but I wouldn't learn that as a first or even second language

[safe dragon]

Which language makes sense also depends on your area a bit... If you're in brazil elixir suddenly becomes a more viable language than it is anywhere else for example...

the netherlands seems to love .NET(C#)

[dusty pollen]

I would learn that if I ever really wanted to punish myself for my hubris

[cinder karma]

I'm not a real programmer but I suspect the skills between languages transfer well

[dusty pollen]

to an extent, yes

[safe dragon]

there's some new frontend planned here and the server would be php/laravel

[cinder karma]

I agree c# is a great first language

[dusty pollen]

do they hate you

[safe dragon]

atra I think I'd trust your programming skills more than at least half of the developers I've ever worked with

[safe dragon]

no cause I wouldn't be touching it

they hate themselves

[dusty pollen]

just you wait, you'll end up dealing with it sooner or later

[safe dragon]

it's possible

[sonic mirage]

If you understand basic programming then PHP is not that bad. I have clients we still have to write PHP 5 for (they're all internal-only webapp sites), and I haven't quit yet

[safe dragon]

the frontend is Vue.js which meh, I can deal with that

it shouldn't ever fall in my lap tho

[sonic mirage]

Most of our sites are either CakePHP v1 or v2, or some version of Laravel from like v6+

[dusty pollen]

I once derailed a functional programming tutorial (very small class, in this case me, another guy and the tutor) by getting the tutor to discuss python vs nodejs error messages

[cinder karma]

Anyways. What type of life do you see yourself with in five years

[dusty pollen]

(nodejs' are better, fight me)

[livid coyote]

😿 yeah..I really need an income

[safe dragon]

typescript error messages are honestly ancient scripture sometimes where it explains me 2 complex types aren't the same so it prints the entire type out twice and I have to scan through it for 5 minutes to play spot the difference

[dusty pollen]

it also isn't really a quick path to a career to be honest

it's quicker than some other paths

[sonic mirage]

they were just saying you have to have an interest in it for it to be a good career option

[safe dragon]

it can certainly make money but it will burn you out very very quickly if you don't end up enjoying it fair warning

[dusty pollen]

(ty voltaek /gen, I'm all over the place because my eyes are refusing to focus again lmao)

[safe dragon]

for my sister programming is strictly a job and it works fine for her tho

it doesn't have to be your hobby

[dusty pollen]

that sounds like haskell

[livid coyote]

/: this sux

[safe dragon]

haskell is weird. It should know everything imaginable about your code with the analysis it does but then you get an error message and it's practically illegible

[dusty pollen]

I was only asking because there were a few years when EVERYONE got told they should learn to code and go into programming, which was a bad idea. If you're even a little interested in computers, go ahead and try learning! worst case scenario you'll have a new skill

[safe dragon]

don't be too discouraged from trying programming! Mess around with either Javascript if you want to try out websites/front-end or C# otherwise

[sonic mirage]

The best way to jump in and develop an interest in programming is to try to build something you think would be neat to build

[dusty pollen]

remember that most programmers are still self taught to some extent so we're all in this together really

[sonic mirage]

Obviously limit the scope to something reasonable, but just start googling and watching tutorials and reading documentation. Making mistakes and figuring things out is free

[dusty pollen]

this is also the best way to break out of the "basic tutorials" loop and actually learn useful stuff

[cinder karma]

Tbh rust type errors are similar

[safe dragon]

tbh I have a formal CS degree and 95% of what I do was self-taught or learnt on the job

[dusty pollen]

I didn't know any more programming when I finished my degree than when I started

[safe dragon]

rust doesn't do duck typing like typescript so it can't get quite as terrible where it doesn't agree types are the same due to some field difference

they're the same type only if they are the same type

and rust-analyzer is just really nice

when it doesn't crash

oh that was compared to haskell not typescript

[sonic mirage]

I learned some practical programming during my web dev electives, but the C++ we did in Comp Sci I & II long escaped me

And the Python class is also lost to the wind

[safe dragon]

rust error messages definitely make more sense to me than haskell's but there's some nasty ones you have to learn like lifetime/borrower errors

[sonic mirage]

So I learned fundamentals and PHP in college, then self-taught C#, PHP, CSS, JS, etc

[safe dragon]

I didn't tell my first employer but I actually dropped out of my front-end development class

[cinder karma]

I feel like for individual languages I'm fully self taught

But theory classes did help

[safe dragon]

I think the only courses in uni that I genuinely got something out of that I still use were "Data Structures" and "Algorithms"

[cinder karma]

Also note that I'm not a programmer

[safe dragon]

you can keep telling yourself that

[cinder karma]

I took algorithms but never operating systems. I did semiconductor physics instead

And I took algorithms for fun. It wasn't on my course plan

[sonic mirage]

Yes, I appreciate the fundamentals we were taught. For self-teaching I think it's better to use C# to learn a bunch of practical programming and then go back and learn the fundamentals so you have a point of reference. There's free Comp Sci classes from MITx and HarvardX that you can put yourself through.

[dusty pollen]

I'm struggling to read you guys' messages now so bye until my eyes are back

[strange copper]

Its ok they gave me a cs degree without an os course

[cinder karma]

(I'm more saying that I never took high level cs courses so I don't know what those are like.)

[dusty pollen]

(most CS students haven't either)

[cinder karma]

I also don't use semiconductor physics very much in my day job either tbh

[dusty pollen]

(I have and it didn't include any OS stuff)

[safe dragon]

C++ was only available in a singular course about embeded programming in my degree and that was optional

I'm kind of thankful my uni opted to use C# for most courses though instead of python or java or something

they couldn't have known at the time that C# would actually become a good language one day...

[cinder karma]

(Y'all, secretly I wish I had the time to take an OS course)

[safe dragon]

me too

[devout vault]

I like her videos but it's the "out loud" threshold that got me this time

[devout vault]

Did you mean to type C++ w/ template types instead of typescript

<war flashbacks>

[safe dragon]

nah I've never used C++

I'm safe

the funky default hello world with the function overloaded cout << "" thing scared me away immediately

[cinder karma]

That scared me too when I was 8

[safe dragon]

[devout vault]

Yeah I hate that

[safe dragon]

I might have been 20

[devout vault]

My college was C++ centric

But like seriously. Who really thinks:

std::cout << "I have " <<< catCount << " " << catAdjective() << " cats" << std::endl;

was better than

printf( "I have %i %s cats\n", catCount, catAdjective() );

[cinder karma]

Bash

[devout vault]

I get variadic templates didn't exist back then

But smh that was awful

[dusty pollen]

I wrote a whole project in c++ without learning even a tiny bit of it

I vaguely remember stack overflow shouting at me over something actually being .net and not c++ or something

[cinder karma]

Python error messages got a lot better in 3.12

They were godawful before that

[fleet wren]

related to C++, I found this kinda funny article yesterday: https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/02/c_creator_calls_for_action/

"Guys, our language sucks and people are catching up to it, we gotta do something"

[cinder karma]

Also I'm no longer listening to your idol on repeat

I'm now listening to free

I don't think there is another piece of media I've liked so much so fast since Frozen

....frozen was 2013????

[fleet wren]

ahh, the frozen hype was something to behold
I don't think it (or anything Disney is gonna make in the future) will ever get that big again

[cinder karma]

Why yes I'm a basic bitch

Also i never watched thr second movie

[fleet wren]

same

idk why even

[thin estuary]

you both should

[devout vault]

Might also be related to that thing from last year or something about the some sort federal regulations regarding memory safe languages? I think I vaguely recall something like that. (Here in the US, anyways)

[fleet wren]

yeah I would say that's the main cause even

[devout vault]

Given how much C++ updates require backwards compatibility, I wonder how they can even accomplish that

[fleet wren]

only way I see it is an inverse of Rust's unsafe keyword or something

[devout vault]

Yeah

I highly doubt they'd go preprocessor level

And they basically pretend compiler flags don't exist I feel like (though I haven't kept up with C++ in a while)

[fleet wren]

lol I was guessing but that's a serious consideration

also Google's Carbon is a thing, though not yet a Thing, and idk if it will graduate to being a Thing

[safe dragon]

I want an unsafe keyword that truly means what it says "this code is guaranteed to be unsafe to run"

"it has been proven to cause UB"

[fleet wren]

you have to give it a pointer, and if it doesn't overflow the compiler throws an error

[safe dragon]

it's been a "thing" for so many years at this point

zig is looking more promising as far as adoption goes

[fleet wren]

I feel like Carbon is actively battling the Rust evangelizers within the company and that's why it's so slow

[safe dragon]

zig seems to have successfully cultivated its own niche outside rust

probably necessary to gain any traction

[fleet wren]

It's to Rust what C is to C++, which is an attractive proposition

though last I heard Zig got into quite the controversy over its decision to file a messy divorce with LLVM, and I haven't checked the status on that

ngl I feel like that might hurt its adoption

[safe dragon]

messy divorces happen

not needing llvm does help compilation time

I might try zig at some point

maybe advent of code

[fleet wren]

like the author is betting that he's more talented than the LLVM dev team, which is, for lack of a better term, blasphemous

[cinder karma]

Zig seems like it would be fun ngl

[fleet wren]

but he's infinitely more knowledgeable than I ever will so I'll just see what happens

[fleet wren]

yes
basically rust but you don't have to fist fight the borrow checker

that's a very reductive summary but you get it

[safe dragon]

I'm better than a highly experienced team of people whose sole job is to work on improving that specific aspect of the compilation process

[cinder karma]

Still gonna try it

[safe dragon]

me too

it's not like I'm loyal to llvm

if language fast I like

[sand frost]

My friend in computer science did not seem to enjoy fist fighting the rust borrow checker

[safe dragon]

skill issue

tbh even in AoC where my primary goal was to make it fast I sometimes just put a .clone() in there cause it would've been a pain in the ass to work around

[cinder karma]

Of course you're not loyal to llvm

You use c#

[safe dragon]

https://github.com/dotnet/runtimelab/tree/feature/NativeAOT-LLVM

[cinder karma]

What about ada

[supple ether]

It is headache-inducing for beginners (me), that's for sure. But if I'm doing low level stuff I would prefer compile-time headaches to chasing runtime bugs

[fleet wren]

but that's not 10x development
something something move fast break things

[steel kraken]

but rust doesn't most fast and break things, you make it once and never touch it again

[dusty pollen]

as some tech execs really love to say, "fail fast, fail often"

whoever added the second half seriously misunderstood what the first half was supposed to mean

[supple ether]

Even though I want to get a tech career I fear tech execs. Like it's so blindingly obvious to me that so much of this stuff is just crap with pretty lies plastered on it and yet somehow investors keep being stupid enough to pay into it?

It's kind of disgusting but it's also kinda scary because it means that like success doesn't come from making something useful but from having great marketing and screwing people as hard as possible before they realize it

I guess my ideal job is to be like. The webmaster for a municipality or some random online store or something. Something where my job is to just make something that works and not do endless growth and stupid marketing gimmicks

Alright time to stop being cranky and go to bed

Night yall

[safe dragon]

those jobs do exist at least

my current job fits those criteria

I write internal software used by others within the company. There is no way to directly tie profit to the application it just needs to help the other employees get their work done

[pliant snow]

god its impossible to ping junimo

[safe dragon]

are u sure

[devout vault]

Does @ junimo not work anymore

Or is this getting the bot to do it

[pliant snow]

it's not an easy thing to achieve

[devout vault]

Ah, yeah. Discords mention searching is… less than stellar

Related, whenever I try to search from:kittycatcasey on this server it’ll show my name at the top at first, but quickly get populated with other results unless I have most of the name typed out. It’s slightly annoying

All of those have avatars so I assume none are the right one?

[pliant snow]

correct

[dusty pollen]

I also can never remember if we're meant to ping the role or bouncer

[cinder karma]

I think it's because of the display name taking precedent in search

[pliant snow]

You can do either

There's also a report option under "Apps" if you right click

[safe dragon]

this is one of the core aspects of the discord name search. It will at first show you the exact person you intended and then replace all your results with randoms who have never said a thing in the server's history

[dusty pollen]

you try to type another letter and the saga repeats because it's TAUNTING you

[safe dragon]

I swear their quicker search for early results is better than their proper search

[dusty pollen]

probably because it uses the cache which is likelier to have relevant results

[safe dragon]

um ok thanks steam

I wasn't even doing anything with you

I swear the steam app is utter crap

[dusty pollen]

steam heard you hating on another app and wanted to remind you who the real villain is

[safe dragon]

fairly regularly it suddenly hijacks my game with some popup about a game controller update which then completely freezes and makes steam unusable until reboot

I don't even have a controller plugged in

I think my keyboard can technically emulate controller inputs

[crystal wren]

It's a Wooting, isn't it?

That was a nightmare for me on Windows... because of the emulated controller.

[safe dragon]

no though that one also had that issue (I do have a wooting)

this is the zsa moonlander

[crystal wren]

I guess try to blacklist the controller device?

[safe dragon]

or update my keyboard's firmware...

yeah steam sees it as a controller it seems

ok my keyboard has a stenography mode?

[cyan shadow]

That's nice

[dusty pollen]

don't all keyboards technically have stenography modes built in? (I'll see myself out)

[cyan shadow]

[safe dragon]

well alright zsa has a completely different tool now to flash the firmware than last time so I'm going to assume it's also a newer firmware version

[devout vault]

The KAR modders have just blown my mind

What the heck

How

They modded a gamecube game to do this

(From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSLDoDjNCdQ )

[pliant snow]

👀

But is there more than one city trial

[devout vault]

Not yet

[steel kraken]

the amount of modding that pokemon emerald has had over the years on the GBA is crazy

[worn remnant]

do tell

[rain apex]

I remember playing one that hacked gen 4 mechanics in

It was also localized to Chinese somehow

[worn remnant]

i understand they have been adding in all the new gen stuff in recent years but i want to hear sinz's tales

[steel kraken]

pokemon emerald at this point has had all new gen mechanics added to it

but in terms of the spread of how far its been modded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B1v94Dp1Jw / https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/super-mariomon.535764/
Super Mariomon completely replaces the overworld with its own separate campaign and has mega evolution and fairy type along with a bunch of QoL stuff, and a completely separate 151 regional dex of mario characters.

and on the other end is pokemon emerald rogue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffifgUQ5FpI / https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/pokemon-emerald-rogue.479406/
which turns pokemon into a roguelike instead

and for a kitchen sink example
https://www.pokecommunity.com/threads/new-release-pokemon-emerald-imperium.534582/
has almost all mons from gen1-9, modern battle mechanics and better AI, mega evolution

[safe dragon]

same is honestly true for firered

[cinder karma]

Plants are weird

Just.....weird little fellows

[safe dragon]

I don't get it man

it's not even detecting any controller anymore

I don't own a single sony product

nothing sony

I wish I had even the slightest clue what it's possibly doing

google results have been completely useless cause I just get shit about the Steam Controller

why does steam even give a shit about me supposedly having a controller firmware update

that's not their problem

I swear steam has never functioned normally on linux in all the years I've used it

it's always been a broken mess

I'll try the flatpak version idk

using a flatpak has never fixed anything for me before but I'm desperate

[pliant snow]

what have you done

[cinder karma]

Dared play games on linux

I vote for not gaming on Linux fwiw

[pliant snow]

a bannable offense

[cinder karma]

Absolutely!

[pliant snow]

this one here officer

[dusty pollen]

of course it fixes things! you can now blame the problems on flatpak

[safe dragon]

you're right

[cinder karma]

I don't play games so

[pliant snow]

uh huh

[cinder karma]

Just look at my name and flair! 100% guaranteed boring af

[sand frost]

I was assuming this was “I don’t play games, Mr Bond” kind of “I don’t play games”

[pliant snow]

who understands HDMI cables

I have one running thru my wall that I can connect my PS5 to and it works, but if I first have the PS5 connection to an HDMI switch, it doesn't work

I am hoping I do not have to replace that cable

[cinder karma]

I don't get that reference either!

[safe dragon]

no one understands hdmi

[dusty pollen]

I forget if hdmi is powered or not

[pliant snow]

the switch has a power source

[fleet wren]

nope

[pliant snow]

it works with other inputs ive tried

[fleet wren]

fun fact, ethernet can transmit power

[dusty pollen]

funner fact: power can transmit internet

[devout vault]

Wait when did you graduate from physics

[fleet wren]

atra dropped out of cool leg 😔

[safe dragon]

no more cool leg

back to knitting

[supple ether]

But it's the year of the Linux Desktop

[dusty pollen]

if we keep saying it, one day it will actually be true

[sand frost]

Not a specific reference, just “playing games” in the slang sense of messing around or not being serious (as opposed to literally video games)

[fleet wren]

it's already true in the hearts of those who believe

(as long as they don't use NVIDIA)

[fleet wren]

if I have to recompile wayland-protocols from scratch one more time imma switch to Arch
why is the software in the Ubuntu repo prehistoric

don't give me that 'corporate stability' excuse

[devout vault]

So you're a now a highschool physics dropout, got it /s

[pliant snow]

Why is wayland-protocols not a binary in ubuntu

I've officially converted my old laptop into a media center for my TV

[dusty pollen]

what are you using as software?

[sonic mirage]

Might be an issue with EDID. I used to have this setup, and I think I usually had to turn the source on (PS5 in this case) before switching the HDMI switch over to transmit it to my display

Typically unplugging it in and plugging it back it would work, but I usually tried to avoid that (due to connector wear) and would just toggle the switch back and forth until it worked

The most high-tech of solutions

[pliant snow]

I looked at plasma bigscreen, but it's a pain to build yourself, so I'm just having it auto boot into steam big picture

[cinder karma]

Yup! I am very dumb apparently

[cinder karma]

Oh. I'm never serious

But seriously - stardew is the only game I've owned on steam. I don't usually play video games and don't intend on owning another

I will literally just knit two dozen more socks instead

Because I'm the most boring person to exist

https://youtube.com/shorts/JuwL4cAsT9k?si=wQO9KvNzZpZydXBN

The more I look at this the more I think it's...doable?

[worn remnant]

wow atra you really did replace your whole personality with kpop, huh /lh

[cinder karma]

To be fair to me, my entire personality one year ago was Taylor swift

So

[steel kraken]

Every time I listen to Look what you made me do the chorus reminds me of psy every single time

[lethal walrus]

that's a lot of obsidian backups

[pliant snow]

Do you do that manually?

[safe dragon]

they did it manually 3000 times today

[lethal walrus]

Commits are automatic every few minutes of editing and possibly every save

[steel kraken]

@dusty pollen Balancing groups look spicy when you tell .NET to compile them to C#, it uses goto's!

example is adapted from https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/standard/base-types/grouping-constructs-in-regular-expressions#balancing-group-definitions

[cinder karma]

I mean like il is goto city

[worn remnant]

lukewarm take: goto is fine when used appropriately and in moderation, especially if it helps flatten. i find nesting/indenting too deeply much harder to keep in my head and reason about

this is the same reason i am such an advocate for early return over if { big block } with no else (and similar patterns)

[steel kraken]

I'm not opposed to Goto as it's the fundamental building block of control flow, I was mainly surprised that Microsoft had the source generator spit them out as people generally have an allergic reaction to them

[supple ether]

Well, source generators are usually invisible

Perfect place to put ugly-but-useful code

[safe dragon]

let the source generator devs deal with that

[cinder karma]

(I agree goto is fine.)

[dusty pollen]

I'm also not opposed to gotos but I do think it's funny that a regex transpiles into something that requires them lmao

[crystal wren]

That's all of my code!

[cinder karma]

My code is both ugly and useless

Where should I put it?

Right now it seems to be used mostly in chat gpt training so. Sorry

[supple ether]

Feed it to claude to poison the vibe coder projects

[crystal wren]

I'm sorry, autocorrect?

[supple ether]

Yes

[crystal wren]

That was more me talking to the autocorrect!

[supple ether]

My phone's suggestions are often really stupid

Like half the time when I try to do 'and' it instead suggests 'abs' or 'ave'

Also when I do always, it tends to suggest airways instead

[crystal wren]

Sometimes I genuinely miss T9...

[supple ether]

Either it's really bad at grammar or it just expects really basic grammar and my phrasing is too fancy for it

[crystal wren]

I got pretty fast with that!

[sonic mirage]

Early returns are one of the most important ways to keep code readable, imo

[safe dragon]

love me some early returns

[dusty pollen]

I kinda want to learn stenography typing and then implement that on a touch screen

surely the fewer keys will make it less easy to make mistakes surely...

[safe dragon]

surely

[dusty pollen]

I never used to do early returns. I have since seen the error of my ways

[crystal wren]

Autocorrect's coming for everyone today!

[dusty pollen]

I'm on my phone on a swipe keyboard, 90% of my messages are going to be edited

[fleet wren]

I do late returns. When a function finishes execution early I insert a spinwait to ensure my users get the most value out of their CPUs

[dusty pollen]

-# make it a crypto miner--

have you seen the one person who asked how come they can make a sorting algorithm that's constant time by iirc padding the time out to the worst case scenario using MAXINT or something

||(the answer is that the existence of MAXINT means that it's not a true unconstrained sorting algorithm)||

I can't find it now but it was a great post

[fleet wren]

dang I havent, that sounds hilarious though

[pliant snow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15_-hgsX2V0

This is

the most impressive piece of software I've ever seen

[lethal walrus]

it is very very cool looking

making it on a phone on buses is even more impressive

[safe dragon]

what the fuck

[pliant snow]

This could replace like several things I'm running

[safe dragon]

I could just throw my shitty smb share off a cliff I think

[supple ether]

how the hell did they make this in python

[safe dragon]

is this the mythical 10x dev

it doesn't replace syncthing but damn

[pliant snow]

It sure can replace smb I think tho

and pairdrop

[safe dragon]

what's pairdrop

[pliant snow]

and magic wormhole

[safe dragon]

tf is that

[pliant snow]

maybe not magic wormhole

pairdrop is web interface to send files from one machine to another on network, think apple's airdrop but on anything

i use it to send things to and from my phone

[safe dragon]

ah like tailscale's new thing

[pliant snow]

does tailscale have a new thing

[safe dragon]

https://tailscale.com/kb/1106/taildrop

[supple ether]

"http and https are both on the same port" I'll be honest I didn't even know you could do that

[fleet wren]

this might get me to setup tailscale now

(xkcd 949 has plagued society for too long)

[pliant snow]

problem is they both need to be on the tailnet

and i dont really want to add my steam deck or whatever to it

although that is neat

[safe dragon]

yeah fair

[crystal wren]

Maybe it's doing some weird semi-intelligent port redirection? If it sees SSL/TLS, redirect it to whatever internal HTTPS port is set up?

[safe dragon]

a lot of these definitely just feel like a flex instead of a feature

oh ok he says some of em were actually a joke... in the sense that the fact that it supports them was just funny to do

[safe dragon]

why is this already in the arch main repository

oh it's in extra

[pliant snow]

I mean, there's only core and extra anymore

[safe dragon]

honestly why does this have more elaborate setup guides than nextcloud

[pliant snow]

I think that says more about nextcloud

I'm setting it up now

If I can browse this in my file manager, I'm uninstalling samba today

[crystal wren]

Wow, that's some speedy learning-to-adoption.

[worn remnant]

frankly this is good and a sane way to set up your repos. miss me with ubuntu having "universe" and then also somehow having "multiverse" which has... more stuff than universe? get out

(i refuse to accept a multiverse. if it's present, it's part of the universe. that's what universe means!)

[crystal wren]

This is actually a nice touch for something like this.

Though I didn't need the RealPlayer psychic damage. Thanks, 9001. /s

[pliant snow]

Arch used to have core, extra, and then community, where community was stuff that was popular enough to add, but not used enough for extra, unless it was. Eventually they just merged the two

[fleet wren]

tbf multiverse is just universe but closed source, while universe is open source only
ubuntu just have 4 sections over 2 dimensions - whether the software is officially supported and whether the software is open source

main - official, open source
restricted - official, no source
universe - unofficial, open source
multiverse - unofficial, no source

[crystal wren]

Huh, I definitely didn't know that.

[worn remnant]

although i prefer arch's two sections, i don't fully object to that structure. mostly it's the names they picked for the last two

[crystal wren]

Just wait until they add an omniverse category that only contains Microsoft packages.

[worn remnant]

or a metaverse category that--- (a giant hook pulls me off stage)

[pliant snow]

Arch technically has a handful more, like multilib, and you can also add any external one you want. I've used a few unofficial repos over the years

[crystal wren]

Which is even funnier, because Meta genuinely have a few pretty nice open source projects.

[pliant snow]

finally, my samba server can die

[crystal wren]

Wow, praise that high already?

[safe dragon]

that's hardly praise

fuckin samba

[pliant snow]

I've been trying to get rid of samba for ages

[cinder karma]

I mean like

Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia https://share.google/pI19XMv3Hg3JBRhuB

[safe dragon]

hrmmm

cursory fuckin around has not given me too much success yet

well

with thumbnails

got all the packages

I shall go through the config...

[pliant snow]

I've got it up and running, it seems to be working without issue

[safe dragon]

I'm getting permission denieds for uploading or deleting files so I assume I'm missing some file permissions

[pliant snow]

Did you set up the config for your user/share

actually i havent tried uploading a file yet tbf

[safe dragon]

I think? so but idk

the systemctl setup guide thing makes its own user it runs under as far as I can tell

[pliant snow]

Seems to be working

[safe dragon]

hrm

[pliant snow]

Oh, how did you invoke it

[safe dragon]

invoke what

[pliant snow]

systemctl service

i wonder if you need it to be as your user

I'm running it in docker

[safe dragon]

I'm running it as a systemctl service rn

ah there we go

it was file permission issues indeed

uploads don't seem to work yet cause it's busy indexing

I can wait

the UI design could use work for sure

[devout vault]

Flecs 4.1 apparently came out last month. Looks like some fun features in it

Is it time for me to start working on my game project again…

[cinder karma]

(That would be cool!!!)

[safe dragon]

do it

[devout vault]

But if do my game stuff I “need” (think it would be much better in some ways) to do my programming language thingy too

[cinder karma]

Do it?

What's your programming language thingie

[supple ether]

The thing with ecs engines is that as great as they seem conceptually, I feel like there's a lot of game types that they aren't well-suited for. Even when it is a good fit, I feel like it can be difficult to use it in a way that actually takes advantage of the optimizations that ECSs can theoretically provide

And it does make some specific aspects of OOP more difficult to work with

[devout vault]

I’ve mentioned it here before and not at computer to explain. Can send you my notepad dump later though?

[lethal walrus]

is this the c# java thingy

[devout vault]

Yeah, every time I’ve tried it I’ve had a hard time wrapping my head around using it. But I think part of that is just being used to OO mindset.

I’m not sure what’s considered a good fit to be fair (though I do agree).

[devout vault]

No, that’s just Minecraft modding crimes

[supple ether]

I've been considering making a tower defense that's ecs-based. I think that's a good use of ecs since it's mostly large numbers of homogenous instances

[devout vault]

Re:ECS optimizations - one thing I saw in the latest flecs is they allow you to mark specific components as “non fragmented”, so it doesn’t contribute to the whole archetype system thing

[devout vault]

Makes sense. I gotta wrap my head around it before I commit fully. I don’t wanna repeat of “everything is a nail when you have a hammer” like I’ve done many times in the past. 😛

And I may use it for some things but others

Which sounds messy

But I don’t mean some entities vs not

I mean like specific game systems

[supple ether]

Tbh I think that's the best option

[devout vault]

Yeah, like, I’m not doing UI with it 😛

[supple ether]

There are just some things that are better with conventional oop

[devout vault]

I can see arguments for it but nah

I’m also thinking of seeing if I can kinda break it by doing half and half

Actually that doesn’t make sense

At least in the specific way I’m thinking

[supple ether]

I do like the composition aspect of ecs and how easy it is to drive that with data/asset files

[devout vault]

Yeah, that’s the main draw for me at the moment

[supple ether]

I wish there was a better way to blend it with a more traditional hierarchical model

[devout vault]

However that’s part of the reason why this is important. The strong typing would be generated at runtime

And a big part of that language idea was it is… sorta half compiled initially and then half at runtime

(And then you get into tricky stuff like IDE support)

[supple ether]

I guess the whole forge capability system is kinda this

[devout vault]

Hmm, yeah. I was considering redoing my items similarly

[supple ether]

Not a terrible way of doing it, but you wouldn't be able to make it dynamic without either using dictionaries or creating runtime classes / expandoobjects which is messy af

[devout vault]

I’m also considering using OO-ish components. Like, BaseInventory as an “abstract component”, and then you can subclass it as needed.

The problem becomes if you want multiple on the same thing for example

Flecs allows “pairs” as a component so could just have a “purpose” tag though.

But is that leaning too far into hammer/nail

[supple ether]

One thought I had before was using object[] to hold custom data on objects, and using some external manager to assign unique indices to specific domains

Main problem with that is memory bloat, since the array size would always be the same as the number of components that could possibly be attached

[cinder karma]

Something something one layer of indirection

[supple ether]

Hm, I suppose that would work

[devout vault]

I’ve done dictionary<string, object> before

[supple ether]

Dictionaries are useful but for games I want to avoid them where I can because doing a string hash and bucket lookup is a lot more expensive than indexing into an array

[devout vault]

(Or really dictionary<id, object> where id is basically MC ResourceLocation)

[devout vault]

Fair. I just don’t plan on doing anything where performance is a huge concern. 😛

Also that was specifically for extensibility - the main data still used OO and fields

[supple ether]

It's fine for infrequent stuff but if it's logic that's running every tick, that adds up fast

[devout vault]

Yeah

[dusty pollen]

everyone knows you don't need to care about performance nowadays anyway, just make your pong implementation require a top of the line gaming pc /j

[devout vault]

AAA execs who don’t give devs time to optimize: Take out the /j you coward

[teal orbit]

Does anyone know how to host your own private server with different networks (host with my pc and my friend wants to join with his phone)

[dusty pollen]

!mh

[indigo mist]

For help with modding issues, please ask in #1272025932932055121! When asking for assistance there, sharing an error log will help others identify your issue (see https://smapi.io/log for instructions).

To use this command, type !mh.

[safe dragon]

shoutout to ubisoft's laggy tetris from 2014

[dusty pollen]

remember back when level designers had to be super careful with the number of polygons on any given asset?

anywho, on an unrelated note, I'm just going to throw a bunch of super high detail meshes out of bounds and not bother to remove them--

[safe dragon]

they told me unreal engine will fix this for me with nanite...

why is this toothbrush with individually modeled and rigged hairs so laggy...

[dusty pollen]

-# I was waiting for someone to bring that up

[tranquil grove]

just make DLSS mandatory, it's fine

[safe dragon]

ok the famous toothbrush didn't have have a rig for it so it wasn't that bad

[dusty pollen]

me with integrated graphics

[safe dragon]

my framework laptop plays runescape flawlessly so why would I need a gpu

[cinder karma]

What toothbrush

Also, I'm not replacing ny laptop until someone removes it from my cold dead hands

So I'm not playing any of these games

[tranquil grove]

(reminded myself of what Remnant 2's DLSS did to inventory object models)

[supple ether]

If my gpu from 2019 can't play it it's not worth playing

[devout vault]

(Flecs.NET is not updated to 4.1 even though 4.1 came out a month ago. Tragic.)

[supple ether]

There's a lot of dotnet ecs libs out there

[cinder karma]

If my integrated graphics from 2018... I'm being told something

[supple ether]

Flecs, arch, friflo, fennecs

[devout vault]

Last time I looked flecs had some specific features that I liked that I couldn't find in others (though I can't recall what those are now)

The game I'm thinking of uses Arch (btw), I think?

[supple ether]

Intel or amd

[devout vault]

Yeah, Arch

I'm specifically thinking of switching

[cinder karma]

Intel

[supple ether]

Arch does have the best bench performance in exchange for less convenience than some of the other engines

[devout vault]

Yeah, and that (lack of) convenience was the part that I found tedious

[supple ether]

[devout vault]

Before Arch I used Entitas, I think? Maybe?

Whatever it was, I had just used the first one I found

The only super significant (for what I'm thinking) feature in flecs 4.1 is the ordered children support though

Though now I'm contemplating if that's really needed either

(Like: A grid of slots for inventory kinda feels... Not quite archaic, but incresingly cumbersome as you add more item types. Just look at how much worse inventory problems are in modern/modded minecraft compared to older versions. and the honestly janky solution for it so far (bundles, shulkers)

[cinder karma]

(It doesn't matter because I almost never bother to play any game anyways)

(Web sudoku is fine!)

And the older and more tired I get the less I care tbh

[supple ether]

Sudoku is banger

Whenever I want to aimlessly scroll on social media I solve sudoku instead

[tranquil grove]

now I'm tempted to get into that again
I borrowed a paper sudoku booklet from my mom in college and did most of it mid-class

but it's been, uh, since then

[cinder karma]

Sudoku slam is my favorite

Quite a few nice qol features

[cinder karma]

I've been scrolling r/gardening recentlu

[heavy dagger]

https://reddit.com/r/gardening

[dusty pollen]

do you have a goto app/website? my old one is way too easy on the hardest difficulty 😭 I like the nyt ones but there's only three a day

[cinder karma]

Sudoku Slam - free web sudoku online, smart hints, undo, save puzzles, more https://share.google/uENzKxN8Ler2FpiAX

[tranquil grove]

looked this up thinking it was sudoku & it's actually picross, but that's also fun
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2871440/Squeakross_Home_Squeak_Home/
do puzzles and set up a little mouse house, I'm told it's nice

[supple ether]

There's an app just called "sudoku" with a heart emoji on fdroid that I used.

The puzzles are randomly generated so they're pretty mediocre, but it's free and offline and there's no ads

It's not like, the highest quality, but it's good enough

It looks like there's a bunch on fdroid actually but I haven't tried the others yet

[cinder karma]

What i like about sudoku slam is the ability to mark up colors, and the fact that it resolves "obvious" squares for you

So near the end it's really satisfying when it solves itself

[tranquil grove]

seems handy, though the UI is tripping me up
iirc I played a web one for a bit but it wasn't mouse-based, just type in boxes

and didn't prevent me being wrong

(okay yeah, I was just using websudoku.com back then)

[cinder karma]

I do recommend gardening

[steel kraken]

Isn't t9 dialling back

[devout vault]

I hate how visual studio "Quick actions" when applied to a whole project, will apply to a shared project as well

[cinder karma]

https://youtu.be/HL8YZwjZHFE?si=IKA70tGV1h3snspt

[devout vault]

Since when did git show this message in git status

I don't have to google this every time I need it now

(I haven't exactly updated lately, either)

(I guess I'm blind)

[crystal wren]

I'm not entirely sure I remember it either, but...

[devout vault]

Clearly we got shunted to a parallel universe and it isn't just the mandela effect

[pliant snow]

...i'm pretty sure that message is always there

[crystal wren]

Sure, in your weird parallel universe. /j

[worn remnant]

i'm so accustomed to running git status with -s that i have little knowledge of the default output

[safe dragon]

I've never run git status in my life so I have nothing to add

[crystal wren]

You just have this in an alias: git add -A && git commit -m '🤷'

[safe dragon]

it's a more fun answer than saying I've always used GUIs

[cinder karma]

What the hell

How

I practically have git status and ls as nervous ticks

It's to the point where I still do git status in svn

[crystal wren]

One of the many reasons we trust your code!

[cinder karma]

You should not trust my code i am very dumb

[crystal wren]

🗞️

[cinder karma]

I meannnn

Also Casey doesnt have her KAR tag anymore 😦

For a nongamer i so care about the discord gamer tags

[safe dragon]

guis

[dusty pollen]

maybe the KAR server didn't feel like paying for it any more

you need to put three nitro memberships a month only towards the tag

(so not contributing to your nitro boost level)

anyway I am grumbling about how much faster this code could be done if I didn't care about things like basic ux and approachability while implementing them anyway because unfortunately I do

[cinder karma]

Fair!

I get the whole fiscally responsibility thing

[dusty pollen]

...does js pass arrays by reference or by value

reference

[lethal walrus]

Would be same as objects since arrays are just dictionaries with a couple helper methods

[dusty pollen]

true, forgot about that one particularly cursed js thing

"everything is an object if you really think about it"

(and other fun js nonsense)

[safe dragon]

the very fun thing of just adding a property to an array

"yup this array now has a property called sandwich"

[dusty pollen]

I just checked and you can add a property to a string

javascript saw your primitive types and raised you "what if they aren't though"

[safe dragon]

"ok but hear me out"

"what if the string can have a string property on it"

[dusty pollen]

okay you can't add them to an int, at list

I'm guessing strings are just arrays of chars so they're just fancy objects

[safe dragon]

yeah you can't cause there are no ints in javascript

there's only floats

[dusty pollen]

I meant numbers

[safe dragon]

😌

[dusty pollen]

force of habit, like going back to python and remembering it's a list not an array

[safe dragon]

I love svelte but javascript continues to be a weird nasty beast

god I wish C# had an actually competent web framework

Microsoft has made so many and still they don't know how to do it

[cinder karma]

I mean like but like also

[safe dragon]

honestly in JS I've just given up thinking about performance beyond the basic stuff like "don't do expensive thing twice if you can do it once"

[cinder karma]

I recall really fun stuff like setting __lt__ on python objects

[safe dragon]

you throw it in firefox instead of chrome and suddenly your performance profile shifts completely

is that messing with ordering

what's __lt__

it is ordering

I should be a gambler

[dusty pollen]

oh this wasn't for performance, I just wanted to know if I could do an ill advised thing or not

ill advised thing was

function f1(arr) { arr.push(item) }

function f2() { arr = []; f1(arr) }

which isn't super ill advised except for the place I was doing it was silly

(I decided to just add a prop to a random variable instead)

[cinder karma]

Reading through someone else's code is always a fun trip

[safe dragon]

that's why I don't

ignore their code, just write another encapsulating if statement that tries to reverse engineer the result into what you want to change

[dusty pollen]

I write code like nobody will ever read it and then cringe when anyone does

[safe dragon]

I've come to the unfortunate realization that someone will in fact read my code later

and it's me

[cinder karma]

Maybe I should bring a melon to work

[dusty pollen]

I have given up on making code readable for future me, I use sensible variable names and hope for the best

[safe dragon]

my employer doesn't accept "I no longer understand what this code I wrote 3 months ago does"

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6514 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1399826749805695066)

[devout vault]

Smh why does discord make tags disappear when edited.

Brb yelling at someone /s

[dusty pollen]

presumably so someone can't trick a bunch of people into adding an innocent-looking tag and then change it into a slur or something