programmers-off-topic

[wet tendon]

yea i mean llvm → clr not clr → llvm

[rain apex]

How do u use harmony then

[wet tendon]

"llvm _ backend" typically means a way to compile llvm ir for _

[marble jewel]

Whose to say some wizardry wouldn't allow you to bridge Rust to C# mods. @devout vault how's that C# for Minecraft mods going?

[safe dragon]

there's one guy making Minecraft mods in rust

[cinder karma]

Ooh?

[safe dragon]

I don't think he open-sourced any of it

[cinder karma]

Awwww

Sad

[marble jewel]

There are few different guys recreating the whole Minecraft server backend in Rust

[cinder karma]

I would kill for a chance to write more rust

[wet tendon]

use Harmony::*;

[devout vault]

Still need to work on it more, haven't touched it since that first day 😛

[devout vault]

You mean like that curvy pipes mod the other day?

(Such a cursed mod)

[marble jewel]

If you got that working, I might look into writing a mod for Minecraft. I don't really feel like working with Java.

[safe dragon]

yes

[devout vault]

That's the main reason I haven't tried any of my mod ideas yet. 😛

(Besides one that was an addon for another mod which should've been trivial but actually was impossible without a fork due to jar-in-jar quirks)

[marble jewel]

My other reason for not modding Minecraft is that everything that I can think of has been done

[devout vault]

See, I thought so too

But somehow I'm up to 25ish ideas

Admittedly some are variations on existing things

[marble jewel]

One game I wish was more moddable is Grounded. I'm doing a new playthrough of that, and I have a bunch of QOL ideas for it.

[devout vault]

But some I'm not sure ever have, like the fixed size world gen framework

[devout vault]

I thought it was UE

Or unity

But yeah if I do the C#->JVM thing I really need to do it soon if I want to try one of my ideas for: https://neoforged.net/news/2025serversidesummer/

[marble jewel]

The game is 3 years old I think, and basically has a non-existant modding scene. So I'm guessing that's for reasons.

[devout vault]

I've definitely seen a nexus site for it

[cinder karma]

Rust is on the table

[devout vault]

Most games don't get modding scenes in general

[cinder karma]

Why c# if rust is on the table

[marble jewel]

It exists, but most of the mods are simple config changes and haven't been updated since launch.

I'm not the pioneer to make modding happen, but I'll certainly build on the collective knowledge of others

[devout vault]

Because C# is god's favorite language while Rust is a demonic hellspawn? /s

[devout vault]

(This is why I gave up on KAR modding 😛 )

[wet tendon]

so funny to me that basically the only signalis mods are model replacements except a first-person mode mod. so funny to me that first-person mode works alarmingly well

[marble jewel]

I don't even understand why any programming language needs to exist when it's already been proven that all you need is Javascript for everything /s

[rain apex]

Everything becomes crab casey

[wet tendon]

i wonder if there's a vr version of the first-person mode

[marble jewel]

Instead of modding KAR, your only choice is to mod KAR into everything else

[devout vault]

It's the opposite. While JavaScript exists, every other language has intrinsic value in existing by being an alternative

[devout vault]

I may have thought about a minecraft mod for that ages ago before deciding the minecraft world wouldn't mesh well with the vehicle traversal

[devout vault]

Be the change that you nobody wishes to see

[rain apex]

I can't believe 3d sdv has been a front for kar in the valley

[marble jewel]

Tell that to boat ice racing

[devout vault]

I reject carcinization, and instead propose catization

[wet tendon]

in gonna be honest being stabbed by falke in first-person vr would do something to me

maybe it would fix me

[devout vault]

(Speaking of catization, I hope nyaight of the living cat next anime season is as fun as it sounds)

[wet tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/signalis-falke-freak-alert-gif-17624856778715796198

[devout vault]

Alas, no, because Stardew3D was specifically avoiding doing any 3d physics.

[rain apex]

I realize this is just thing people say but what does "it would fix me" entail

[wet tendon]

something is wrong with me in my brain

perhaps that experience would fix whatever is wrong with me

making me normal and happy

[devout vault]

Everyone goes "I can fix her", but nobody stops and thinks "I can make her worse" /s

[wet tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/signalis-falke-gif-18360994498930046175

[red crest]

otoh im a big fan of "she can make me worse"

[wet tendon]

yea agreed

[devout vault]

yes

[red crest]

glad we're all in consensus

[wet tendon]

falke would think that about me.....

i wish i were a fklr unit so i could kiss the other fklr units

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6430 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1385014059753148497)

[devout vault]

Followup: Everyone goes "How enemy if fren shape" but why not "How evil if hot" /s

[cinder karma]

We have to keep an eye on the quote number btw

[devout vault]

For 6480?

[cinder karma]

Quote 6480 needs to go to 6480

Does lifting make me evil?

[devout vault]

I like the idea of quote 6480 being some random message 6480 said in the past. Not a notable one, just the first one someone could find after they see 6479 is made

[wet tendon]

evilness may not be sufficient for attractiveness but it sure as hell is correlated

[cinder karma]

Meh

Unless you're LeanBeefPatty

I'm really not being not online if I can reference LeanBeefPatty

[devout vault]

(I tend to lean more towards "pretty" than "hot" as far as which attractive archetypes I like most, but I'm certainly not saying the latter is nothing to me)

[cinder karma]

(If you don't know who she is, she is a fitness influencer who is ||hot as hell||)

[fleet wren]

unfortunate for your the adlr simps are all you get

[wet tendon]

is she like a terf or is that a different buff instagram lady

literally

[devout vault]

I thought it was a joke about cooking. (Making a lean beef patty hot to cook it to eat)

[cinder karma]

As far as I know she's a buff YouTube lady?

[wet tendon]

turning myself into a fklr so i can kiss the other fklrs but the nation immediately assigns me to some nowhere base on some nowhere planet and my job is managing 9 fucking adlrs that all transparently wanna fuck me and i cant even properly reject them because it would destabilize their personas and i just fucking taught them how to cooperate with each other without plotting each others downfall

[cinder karma]

Those are words

[devout vault]

Realized I missed this.

The difference is boat ice racing generally needs you to make a track for it. The idea for this mod was to use it in your natural world.

[fleet wren]

yeah I'm pretty sure fklrs are not meant to be deployed in the same solar system let alone planets

sad fate

[devout vault]

Hmm... brb replacing all elytra with a warp star air ride vehicle

(Not a texture change. Mechanic changes too)

[cinder karma]

Those are definitely words

[wet tendon]

technically falke is fklr-s2301 so perhaps its possible for multiple fklrs to exist in close proximity to each other?

[devout vault]

My messed up sleep schedule is telling me to sleep soon...

[fleet wren]

I didnt know if those numbers have special meanings really

[devout vault]

I don't wanna

[cinder karma]

Oh my god what are these words

What media is this.

[devout vault]

Something about signalis apparently (assuming you mean them and not me)

[fleet wren]

but still, I guess you can try your luck with the local EULRs

[devout vault]

(signalis being a game on steam)

[cinder karma]

Are these robots or chemical names

[rain apex]

Robots i think

[devout vault]

Definitely not chemical names

[cinder karma]

Ah lmao I don't have to care

I'll go back to watching that YouTube short on repeat

[devout vault]

Hehe

[wet tendon]

ru kidding me they think im a god and worship the ground i walk on thats not a good basis for a relationship

[strange copper]

what on earth are yall talking about

[wet tendon]

signalis

[red crest]

robot wlw horror video game from my understanding

pixel horror

[rain apex]

This is more on topic than most cases

[devout vault]

I'm still rambling about minecraft modding / KAR, like normal

[tranquil grove]

I know what signalis is but have never heard of specific robot IDs/lore or whatever

[devout vault]

(Why can't we get more info on KAR2 yet. Please sakurai I'm begging you)

[devout vault]

Yeah this is my first exposure to that stuff as well

[tranquil grove]

(but I was just as "???" about the struct convo earlier, I know very little about my hobbies)

[devout vault]

That's the best way to be about your hobbies - living in blissful ignorance

[tranquil grove]

though honestly that one's just not a genre I play, despite the promise of wlw

[devout vault]

Know just enough to get by

[devout vault]

Yeah even wlw isn't enough to drag me across the horror threshold

I know not all horror is scary even. Sometimes it's just unsettling, right?

Still no

I consume fiction to have fun, not to make myself feel bad. I do that enough on my own already

[cinder karma]

What struct convo

[tranquil grove]

the nullable mystery class/struct T stuff

[cinder karma]

I like getting super in depth with theory and shit

[tranquil grove]

just leaves everything as a class and tries not to think about it

[fleet wren]

it is unfortunate, because signalis is probably one of the media with the most intense concentration of wlw stuff
we're talking 99.9% pure elements

[cinder karma]

Back when I was actively a modder I would read blog posts of c# optimization in bed

[devout vault]

Make me a mod that makes it cozy and 0 horror and we'll talk

[wet tendon]

signalis is a survival/cosmic horror tragedy video game set in "east germany but in space" in which nearly all of the characters are female and most of them are robot cyborgs. the main story of the game is about the main character's relationship with another woman. the main developers are a woman and a nonbinary person. the story heavily features themes of sci-fi mind manipulation on top of traditional cosmic horror themes

[devout vault]

"but that is impossible and would be an entirely different story" okay, and?

[devout vault]

You know, having seen your code, I'm not surprised

[cinder karma]

Now I'm very concerned on fiber types

[wet tendon]

i didn't find signalis too scary on easy mode (and i'm very easily scared) but the tragedy hits hard

[tranquil grove]

I've never been good about in-depth research stuff re programming, lots of imposter syndrome when it comes up
philosophy and literature stuff is more my speed, I just also have programmer brain

[cinder karma]

I'm also getting into civil war history

[devout vault]

I can't remember if this is something you showed me or not (I think it was something you posted on krobus late at night and I stayed up way too late watching it unexpectedly?), but one time I saw a video about a C++ talk where someone switched an algorithm for a "better" one (as far as big O time and stuff) and it performed worse because of memory stuff or something

[cinder karma]

Yeah it's fun but also it means I get relatively little done

Modding wjse

[cinder karma]

Yessssss

[wet tendon]

the story can be difficult to follow (it's extremely confusing on purpose and plenty of people disagree on major elements of the story) but if you're following along you'll be crying at several points throughout the game and even if you're not following along you'll be crying by the end

[cinder karma]

I remember that one

[fleet wren]

you can also read cozy fanfiction about the two leads having a happy domestic life

[devout vault]

I can't find it in my watch history, but given it was late at night and I stayed up too late it might've been on my phone

[fleet wren]

obviously it wont hit as hard if you havent experienced the horrors™️

[tranquil grove]

same, but sometimes I'll get super attached to a bleak or gory story by accident
(e.g. I'm thinking about this lately, which is "what if isekai was literally torturous" but has characterization I really like)

[wet tendon]

oh and signalis is "doomed yuri" but crucially:

• the wlw relationsips in question are not doomed because of in-world misogyny nor misogyny on the writers' part
• the forces causing the wlw relationships to be doomed get what's fucking coming for them
• it's a complicated sort of doom that doesn't quite register as doomed in many circumstances
• there is a secret ending that leaves you going "okay what the FUCK just happened" which can easily be interpreted as undooming the wlw relationships in question (the fanfic goes crazy)

[supple ether]

If I didn't already have too many hobbies I'd check that out

[devout vault]

This sounds incredibly spoilery for anyone who might want to play it

[wet tendon]

idk its something most people probably will wanna know going in

i think telling people not to go in expecting a happy ending (and also not to avoid the story if they would typically avoid "doomed yuri" for most reasons) is probably worth the spoiler

[devout vault]

Not that part

More 2/4

Like, not on a super serious spoilery level

[wet tendon]

2 isn't really a spoiler lol

[devout vault]

I guess Idid use the word incredibly

[wet tendon]

its not featured in the story much

its just kinda a side effect of some stuff you learn throughout the story

[cinder karma]

https://youtu.be/FJJTYQYB1JQ?si=2xK8XOMBogRr2qYK

[devout vault]

Ah, yeah, couldn't find it in my watch history (I'm discovering the search there kinda... sucks...)

[wet tendon]

and i found out about 4 before i played signalis and it was what convinced me to play lmao

[tranquil grove]

nods in "knows what quicksort and bubblesort are, mostly"

[devout vault]

Quick sort is a quick sorting algorithm.

Bubble sort uses bubble machines to float things to where they best fit

Right?

[tranquil grove]

sort of

[devout vault]

(This also means if you name your bubble sort function with the word "quick" in it, it fits in both categories and automatically becomes faster)

[wet tendon]

the normal endings to signalis are unsatisfying, depressing, and tragic (and everyone, reasonably, warns you about this) so knowing that those aren't the only ways the story can end was very helpful to me

[wet tendon]

isnt bubble sort just a worse version of insertion sort

[tranquil grove]

probably, it's just the one that intuitively sticks in my head

[devout vault]

You know what sorting algorithm intuitively sticks in my head? Whichever one is called when I do list.Sort() (or std::sort or whatever is in the STL of the language)

(More seriously, merge sort is the main one I recall, but I'd still have to think carefully to actually implement it)

[wet tendon]

so fucked up that c# has no way to stable sort an array in-place

[rain apex]

Quick sort is the one where you go and then other way

[tranquil grove]

grab a middle thing and sort around it -> do a recursion -> assume it's efficient enough for a stardew mod

[devout vault]

I remember getting really annoyed at some stable sorting function in some language (probably C++ given how long ago) because of a weird crash I was getting or something

[tranquil grove]

reminds me, SDV still has an unstable sort bug with furniture because of how the catalogues work

if (leftId == "(F)1226" || leftId == "(F)1308")
  return -1;
if (rightId == "(F)1226" || rightId == "(F)1308")
  return 1;```

a specific set of furniture mods was hitting a vague error over it

[devout vault]

That little amount of context isn't enough for me to understand but I'm not interested enough in stardew modding at the moment to find where it's from to figure it out 😛

[tranquil grove]

public static int SortAllFurnitures(Furniture a, Furniture b) pretty much starts with that

it tries to put the order-form catalogue items to one side, but since there are two of them and it doesn't care which is which, they can infinite loop on each other iirc

the base item ID list just doesn't happen to trigger it

(and it doesn't come up much in general, just reminds me that custom sorting stuff can trip over itself easily )

[devout vault]

Huh

[wet tendon]

static void SortStable<T, K>(IList<T> list, int start, int end, Func<T, K> key)
where K : IComparable<K>
{
    for (int i = start + 1; i < end; i++)
    {
        var v = list[i];
        var k = key(v);

        int j;
        for (j = i - 1; j >= start; j--)
        {
            if (k.CompareTo(key(list[j])) >= 0) break;
            list[j + 1] = list[j];
        }

        list[j + 1] = v;
    }
}

[devout vault]

Was it reported to pathos? 😛

[tranquil grove]

I forget whether I specifically @ ed Pathos or just posted to the forums, but it's still here
https://forums.stardewvalley.net/threads/base-game-bug-that-errors-with-certain-modded-furniture-lists.36975/

(which is what he was suggesting at the time whenever we found stuff)

[wet tendon]

insertion sort: stable, constant memory, n^2 time, very fast if the list is small or nearly sorted

[devout vault]

Completely unrelated, but the way too large time I put into "leechblock temporary disable" last time expired earlier today. I put another big number in but I think it was too big this time.

Last time it capped at 999 hours or something, but this time it kinda broke... (the time isn't going down)

I wonder if javascript dumbness made it turn into nan or inf or something

[supple ether]

I had to patch that to fix a crash sorting error item furniture, which in turn was caused by me replacing crashing furniture with error items to prevent crashes

It's still crazy to me that bounding box parsing has zero safety checks on it

Just crashes the constructor

[cinder karma]

@sand frost I see your reaction

The last mod I actively worked on that I published was worked on more than two years ago

[sand frost]

ooooh rainbow

i see the rainbow now

[rain apex]

Atra not putting name on vmv C# broke barley list mod

[sand frost]

the passsage of time isn't real

that's my hot take here

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6433 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1385048318010200117)

[strange copper]

I fixed itttt

I blame smapi for the json schema marking it required but smapi only requiring name and unique id

Now if only we used nullable.....

[cinder karma]

You know that formatterservices get uninitiated object madness I was showing off earlier?

Do you know what it is for?

[supple ether]

What is it for?

[cinder karma]

It's meant for deserializers

[supple ether]

That makes sense

[cinder karma]

Nullable won't save you with serializers/deserializers

[tranquil grove]

was gonna say, it sounded like the stuff multiplayer does with default constructors
(monsters in particular will explode the game if you use new Bat() or something & don't populate every field)

[cinder karma]

Could easily be float rounding tbh

Have you ever played cookie clicker

Oh no. Formatterservices get uninit object gets you a blank object

[supple ether]

That actually is good to know about bc I have been thinking about writing a (de)serialization lib designed for game saves specifically

[cinder karma]

I use it to skip the zero param constructor

[tranquil grove]

yeah, not technically the same if that's at me, just functionally "you get an object that isn't correctly initialized"

[cinder karma]

(In that particular case, the zero param constructor was unnecessarily expensive since I would be overriding all internal state anyways)

In theory for any normal constructor it ☆☆should☆☆ leave the object in a valid state

[wet tendon]

#[derive(Serialize, Deserialize)] when

[cinder karma]

In particular - normal dotnet Randoms are given their initial seed by sipping from an actual secure random

That can block on you

Given that I didn't want the initial seed I just skipped it

[tranquil grove]

ah, yeah, I was wondering why the uninit thing was in both Random and the xoshiro stuff

(oh right, looking back at monsters, the zero constructor never calls base so it doesn't initNetFields
so even with data initialized they'd crash in multiplayer, iirc)

[devout vault]

At one point

Sudden thought: if blacksmiths are Cheetos and junimos are mold, the level 2000 role people are wildberry pop tarts

[cinder karma]

Floating point numbers is a gameplay mechanix in cookie clicker

I told you I'm a nerd

This is also why I don't play most video games

[devout vault]

See, normally I’d ask why they are floating points.

But then I remember that that’s JavaScript

[steel kraken]

one day

[cinder karma]

I believe there is a Celeste (maybe) speed run

[devout vault]

One day I’ll update my mobile discord app so I can see forwarded messages on it

[cinder karma]

That relies on the clock being floating point numbers

[steel kraken]

I think I technically cheated a single cookie in my save just to have the shadow achievement

[rain apex]

so is there a competitive cookie clicker meta

[devout vault]

A friend of mine has you beat (at least in achievements)

[devout vault]

GASP

(I don’t know which achievement that is)

[steel kraken]

looks like I might not have on this save

[tranquil grove]

oh, neat, that has the same composer as minecraft's background music

[steel kraken]

C418's music in the steam edition of cookie clickers great

[tranquil grove]

I recall playing some pre-steam version of it when it was really simple

[steel kraken]

the browser versions still there and version parity (minus the music)

[sand frost]

i def thought cookie clicker was a browser game

[steel kraken]

https://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/

[devout vault]

(Why is everyone ignoring my incredibly clever poptart joke re:level 2k role 😔 )

[cinder karma]

It is

[sand frost]

i do not eat the pop tarts

[devout vault]

You also don’t contribute to that special bonus cookie multiplier or whatever for amount of Steam users online!

[cinder karma]

I have every achievement

[devout vault]

Unless that got removed

[cinder karma]

||I cheated||

[devout vault]

It was there on steam launch

[steel kraken]

steam edition uses concurrent players, browser uses the patreon subs iirc

[devout vault]

Oh didn’t know browser had it

Can you tell I haven’t played the browser version

[steel kraken]

the herald perk predated steam

[devout vault]

I should make an idle game.

It’ll be themed around sitting around alone with your thoughts, just like you normally would be if you actively played an idle game for a long period

[supple ether]

I mean, attribute-based sourcegen is a thing
System.Text.Json has source generation for json, though it doesn't work exactly like that, instead it dumps the logic in a separate utility class that you pass to the serializer

[cinder karma]

Adhd the game

[tranquil grove]

I usually don't mind, but I tend to cheat if I'm 1 off
like a recent detective sim with a "knock out everyone in the entire city, good luck even telling them apart"

[cinder karma]

Meanwhile for the third week in a row I'm chased out of the office by the cleaning crew

[devout vault]

There’s a joke here but I don’t feel like I have the right to be the one to make it 😛

[cinder karma]

It doesn't have to

By default it does

[steel kraken]

yeah base constructors always inherit

[tranquil grove]

I might be misremembering, but I thought Monster() would need : base() since the init call is in Character()

[steel kraken]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/programming-guide/classes-and-structs/using-constructors#:~:text=see base.-,In a derived class,-%2C if a base

[tranquil grove]

got it, ig it was crashing for regular null reasons

[steel kraken]

the implicit base is partly why its spicy when a class doesn't explicitly have a parameterless constructor and you harmony patch the constructor without args, you will be harmony patching the base classes one instead, with the potential chain hitting object and thus patching every class

[tranquil grove]

okay yeah, going by my old commits, the issue was subclasses not having parameterless constructors at all
(probably causing issues with CreateInstance)

[dusty pollen]

did you give up your mod author role just so you could be fancy

[uncut seal]

tbh I would too

[cyan shadow]

Omg atra is shiny

[crystal wren]

When the incident occurred: #programmers-off-topic message

[cursive sigil]

Honestly we'll all retire if the cheeto role doesn't get some shiny

[crystal wren]

[dusty pollen]

junimos explain please, why are some people seeing this apparently

have I been given infinite power

I graciously accept the role of overlord

[hardy jewel]

What on earth

is it just one person? or multiple?

sometimes roles glitch for one person but it goes back to normal after a refresh

[dusty pollen]

one person good to know

but I now choose to believe that the whole application process thing is a front and you guys appoint new junimos by just springing the role on them (fun fact: I have actually been made a moderator for a server in this way before )

twice actually, now that I think about it

[cyan shadow]

Ngl alab I'm considering it for shiny

[thin estuary]

isn't the role tied to the community wiki page, which in turn is tied to Stardew decompile repo access? that's what i've heard from Pathos some months ago i think

[hardy jewel]

Atra was fine with the consequences

[thin estuary]

(i do think it's kinda lame mod authors only get the one color and lose the whole level role thing)

[hardy jewel]

keep this on the down-low but we're sort of discussing some options right now after all the feedback we've received

absolutely no promises though

[thin estuary]

roles you unlock and can change to at any time would be a cool server feature

[pliant snow]

I accept cash donations

[lethal walrus]

I also accept cash donations which are distinctly different to bribes

[cinder karma]

I don't deserve the orange anyways

The last time I actively worked on a mod and then published it was two years ago

The exceptions are

1. Doesn't count because it's for debugging
2. Never published
3. Primarily worked on years ago and only published later

[crystal wren]

1 counts!

[cinder karma]

Anyways I'll have to come up with a better excuse if any of the map renderer rewrite, the rng rewrite, the appearances rewrite, or the stupid little framework drops

I'm sure I'm creative enough

[hardy jewel]

hey the last mod I published was 5 years ago but I’m still holding onto my Cheeto for dear life 😤

[cinder karma]

Zoe, I'm never serious. I'm milking this "I'm retired" as far as I can get it, I just wanted the pretty more than the role

[dusty pollen]

atra I'm going to include a quote from you in a mod and credit you as a coauthor

[devout vault]

Just use a single line of code which totally isn't common to almost every mod

Like: https://github.com/atravita-mods/StardewMods/blob/main/CatGiftsRedux/ModEntry.cs#L63

[cinder karma]

Howww did you even know about that one

[devout vault]

I went to your repo and looked for one

Another candidate was internal sealed class ModEntry : Mod

[dusty pollen]

what does npc arrows do

[cinder karma]

So that one was when ui info suite was still in that weird legal mess

And I was like

What if I made my own. With

You know.

Completely never looking at their code so I could license something MIT free and clear

[lethal walrus]

oh no it moved

we got moved

[cerulean holly]

[lethal walrus]

the horror

[cinder karma]

But then abs0rbed took over

[devout vault]

Wait what

[lethal walrus]

i can't ignore this category anymore

this is horrific

[cerulean holly]

I noticed this channel got moved here. wassup

[cinder karma]

And it was fine

[lethal walrus]

WE HAVE RETURNED

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/noooo-star-wars-darth-vader-gif-8348766

[lethal walrus]

oh we're better than mmg

oh no back at bottom

no no art is below us

[hardy jewel]

WHERE DID IT GO

HELP

[lethal walrus]

https://pillow.is-epic.xyz/8CqfOqH7Hq

[devout vault]

There I fixed it 😛

[hardy jewel]

bless

[cerulean holly]

insanity

[devout vault]

feel free to ban me if that was intentional and I committed a cardinal sin or something

[lethal walrus]

well you have manage channels so you can physically do it

[hardy jewel]

why did you notice that so goshdamn fast, pillow

that was scary

[cinder karma]

Please, that's internal class ModEntry : BaseMod<ModEntry> these days

[devout vault]

I can also physically (try to) eat all the food in my apartment ina single sitting, doesn't mean I should

[lethal walrus]

i like to see if messages are unread

[lethal walrus]

true

[devout vault]

Not on that branch

[cinder karma]

Smh alpha is dev now 😛

[devout vault]

Oh, there's a branch being actively developed?

Sounds like somebody needs their cheeto role back

[cinder karma]

What. No

The purple is nice

[devout vault]

re:moving channels - I wish discord made you explicitly enter a moving mode or something

I feel like I've accidentally moved a channel here before and moved it back before it was noticed (at least in the channels I frequent)

[cinder karma]

Apparently if you hide at least one channel you can't move them

[devout vault]

I really should hide muted channels on this server

[hardy jewel]

yeah if you turn off "show all channels" in your settings it prevents you from moving them

I was messing around with channels earlier so I forgot to turn it off

It's really odd how discord handles that, you'd think there'd just be a normal setting for it

[devout vault]

Discord strives to implement all the features that nobody asks for, and none of the ones we do ask for

[cinder karma]

Anyways, the closest thing off my backlog is the map renderer rewrite, but that one needs an explainer of why in the readme

Rng has a number of more features

[devout vault]

And they don't even go all the way with the ones nobody asks for (like the role gradients only allowing two colors, despite clearly being capable of more as shown by the holographic one)

[cinder karma]

I'm thinking I need to run all SMD features past Pathos in hopes of more adoption

(I may be kidding there.)

(But please other people take the wheel.)

(Your plane!)

[devout vault]

The only two stardew mods right now I'd be vaguely interested in making (if I was interested in actually modding at the moment) is the one that compresses the entire game into a playthrough of 2-4 hours, and the crazy stardew<->minecraft bridge one

[cinder karma]

And appearance rework I have some code I've been testing out but it isn't packaged right

3/4 are just optimized reworks of base game things

Which means they need white papers. Argh

Also the appearance rework isn't sharded yet

[devout vault]

I imagine some people reading that latter idea who didn't see the discussion in krobus might be going "what the heck kind of bridge mod?", and trust me, it's probably crazier than you're thinking

[cinder karma]

And I was bouncing around aggressive memory modes as well as horse/etc appearances

But state management will be Fun

[devout vault]

I haven't really heard anything about what appearance rework would be

[cinder karma]

At the base level, it moves appearance rechecking away from npcs not on your map in favor of checking the ones on your map every 10 in game minutes

[devout vault]

Kinda want to do this but I don't want to deal with Java 😔

I also woke up this morning feeling like maybe actually playing my MC modpack finally

(Currently still in my morning reddit runthrough)

[cinder karma]

I spent my entire swim yesterday brainstorming what I would do for an aggressive memory mode tbh

(Aggressive memory mode=more invasive changes to possibly save ram)

[devout vault]

Are you really fully retired (rather than indefinite hiatus) if you're still thinking about modding a lot?

[cinder karma]

What else do you do in the water with nothing else

Can't bring an audiobook in

[devout vault]

It's more that that's what your mind is going to when you aren't otherwise occupied

Like, you could be thinking about things you want to knit, or some problem from work, for example

[cinder karma]

Well that too

But right now the knitting queue is full, I'm still doing sock world championship so my own designs are backburnered

And I had just spent the entire day in netlists so

Let's do some memory management instead?

[devout vault]

I would say "have you considered escaping off-grid for a while to get through your knitting queue" but I'm like 98% sure you have (at least in general, maybe not specifically for the knitting queue)

[cinder karma]

Those are the mods that will get extensive readmes

If they happen

Which I also have to write

[devout vault]

Who says you have to write docs

SpaceCore notoriously has none (acording to some people anyways)

(Extensive docs is another story. I never finished the new website...)

[crystal wren]

I don't know what's wrong with me that makes me like writing docs...

[cinder karma]

These aren't docs as much as white papers tbh

[devout vault]

I know what you mean but I choose to believe you mean you're just writing it pen and paper in a notebook (or maybe just printing it out)

[cinder karma]

Ie, is not "how to use mod" but "what are the design guidelines I used/the papers I'm referencing"

Why is there an aggressive mode

[devout vault]

Well if there's one thing you can say is unique to your mod, it's that probably nobody else is using research papers to make their mod

[crystal wren]

I would probably also enjoy writing that if I had anything that's even remotely interesting architecturally.

[cinder karma]

I'm a nerd at heart

And I personally believe you should never trust a mod that says it does optimizations

Unless the modder can clearly explain the why

(And, uh, correctly explain the why.)

[crystal wren]

• Cleans your RAM every day start.

[devout vault]

"This mod optimizes your game to make the individual frame time practically zero!"
(The mod prevents the game from launching)

Can't have low fps if you get no frames to begin with taps forehead

[crystal wren]

Hey, I've technically made an optimisation mod that reduces draws in Stardew.

[cinder karma]

Ie, sharding. The point of sharding is to divide work across multiple frames

[devout vault]

When I hear sharding I think of the MMO region stuff

[cinder karma]

Just reduces frames randomly

[devout vault]

I feel like work across multiple frames has another word in my mind that I can't recall

[crystal wren]

Yeah, that's a hugely underrated thing for smoothing out frame times.

[devout vault]

Completely irrelevant, but today in "gifs I never expected to see or even exist"
https://i.redd.it/5s3ir35jat7f1.gif

[cinder karma]

It probably does.

My lack of professional training shows

[devout vault]

I mean I don't exactly have professional training, I was very much self taught

Tehcnically have some professional experience, but by then you're not really taught all the lingo as much

[cinder karma]

I find a lot of the time the optimization tricks make full sense to me

Unless it's the high frequency traders in which case

Tbh this is a nerd point for me, so. Who the fuck listens to cppcon otherwise

[devout vault]

Yeah even with how incredibly little I know about that subject, that stuff seems insane

[devout vault]

It has gone down a little but it's stuck again. I did notice the seconds going from 53 to 52 before it stopped. So atra was likely right about it being floating point related

[dusty pollen]

there was legal mess with uiis?

[cinder karma]

I'm being dramatic but it isn't open source so for ages it couldn't be updated on Nexus

Which I found dumb

So I was gonna do my own take on it, make it MIT, etc

[safe dragon]

I'll double your fps by copying every frame buffer and duplicating it

it won't actually be smoother but it's double the fps

in fact it will probably feel drastically worse

[cursive sigil]

I finally got the Prism Laucher and i'm ready to see what happened while i was gone lol
Any recommendations?

[devout vault]

MC Eternal 2 is supposedly releasing tomorrow, so I'm trying to decide on whether I should go ahead and play my ATM9+stuff-I-added, or wait and add stuff to it tomorrow

I played the original MC Eternal with my siblings a while back

[lethal walrus]

i personally quite like a standard fabric profile /j

nice and customisable

tbh for modpacks i've only ever done atm9 and i gave up trying to move from refined storage to ae2

[cinder karma]

Yeah, I like poplin too

[devout vault]

I haven't used refined storage much, it's more similar to AE1 right?

I haven't played long in a modded world in years though

[lethal walrus]

i've never touched ae1

[devout vault]

And I'll probably be using integrated dynamics when I next play

[lethal walrus]

RS is just one block for crafting that can insert specific items into a container OR do crafting table things

and all the storage bits are crafting table only

[cursive sigil]

I've done AE don't know which one though

Don't think i've ever done refined storage though

[devout vault]

AE2 is the one with channels

Where you have to worry about 16 connections max per big cable or something like that

AE1 is pretty old

[cursive sigil]

Hmm

[lethal walrus]

i think its 32 channels but channels scare me anyway

[devout vault]

(AE1 was used in agrarian skies 1 back in 1.6, AE2 was used in agrarian skies 2 back in 1.7)

[marble jewel]

Channels

[devout vault]

Also I'm noticing the original agrarian skies modpack is no longer on curseforge? Sad

[devout vault]

Plz no

[lethal walrus]

these fundamentally scare me

[marble jewel]

Whenever I do a modded playthrough with AE2, I always end up building one of these hypercubes

[devout vault]

(AE1 is apparently on technic still)

[cursive sigil]

Is either of these in the sky/stone/wtv?

[devout vault]

Wonder why it is no longer on curseforge

It's probably only on technic because of someone else uploading it - the author username isn't similar

[cursive sigil]

Like has an option for it

[devout vault]

I think ATM9 has a sky version

Hard to say about MCE2, I assume not though

[lethal walrus]

https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/modpacks/all-the-mods-9-to-the-sky

[devout vault]

They haven't shown a mod list yet though

I'd like to do ATM9 but it probably wouldn't work well with some of the mods I added without heavily changing things.

(Specifically, Spectrum. You can customize the progression but I haven't even played through the mod once yet. It's very much got stuff about discovering things around the world though, including things that only show up if you've unlocked other research already)

(Typo - specifically ATM9 sky)

(I have it running on ATM9 just haven't played it yet)

[cursive sigil]

Well idk why but hospital internet is refusing to let me connect to curseforge at all

[devout vault]

They're modding haters apparently

[cursive sigil]

All the others are fine

But curseforge is refusing

[lethal walrus]

should probably bypass it https://archive.is/YUpfx

[cursive sigil]

aparently not

[devout vault]

Guess you're stuck with modrinth packs

[cursive sigil]

aparently "The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified."

[devout vault]

Sounds like they're trying to intercept ssl pages or something

[crystal wren]

Are they doing some weird... man in the middle HTTPS proxy scanning thi-

[lethal walrus]

sounds like- yeah

[crystal wren]

Yeah, sounds like it.

[devout vault]

One thing that makes me slightly sad about ATM9 is it's on Create 5.x. I may be a Create Hater ™️, but the few things that do interest me all seem to be in 6.x. And since it's a major update, updating it and dependencies would probably break stuff with other mods (and also various recipes and quests and stuff).

[lethal walrus]

create 6.x seems so cool

<6 is also cool but oo 6 is so cool

[devout vault]

Yeah, a lot of the package and stock link/ticker/network stuff seems super interesting

I probably need to play a "mostly create+addons only" pack at some point

Since I feel like those things I mentioned would get more use if I don't have a fancy storage system mod

[red crest]

(as a certified Create Lover™ but who hasnt looked at minecraft in a decent while... is there a short summary/overview video or page or somethin of whats new in 0.6? 👀)

[lethal walrus]

as in a trailer thing, changelog or youtubers being like "omg wow so cool"

there's https://wiki.createmod.net/users/changelogs/6.0.0 for changelog

[devout vault]

The video I watched that finally convinced me I might be interested was this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deaGEyT5rK4
(And the followup video because apparently he missed a bunch of stuff the first time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg3MUvvmlXE&pp=0gcJCb4JAYcqIYzv)

That person is definitely a certified create lover

The featured video on the channel is "Why Create is the Best Minecraft Mod Ever Made"

[red crest]

i will give it a look later. ive been feeling the minecraft itch again lately

(also i didnt even notice it was 6.0 and not 0.6, coulda sworn they versioned weird)

[cinder karma]

Technically button asked for the 0.6 changedog

[devout vault]

The 5.x mod file in my ATM9 instance is listed as version 0.5.1.j , and curseforge has it jump from 0.5.1.j to 6.0

So I guess they changed it with 6.0

[red crest]

very normal

[supple ether]

It is 0.6 but lots of people refer to it as 6.0

Idk why but it's been happening since 0.5 first got released

[cursive sigil]

someone tell me why i could access curseforge from chrome but not firefox

[lethal walrus]

is one using the hospital's dns or smth

[supple ether]

Chrome is less strict about data security

[cursive sigil]

i have no idea

[supple ether]

Firefox is a lot more rigorous about CORS which can break stuff sometimes

[cursive sigil]

but even on my phone on the same browser i could access it through mobile data but not the hospital wifi i'm so confused

[devout vault]

I think they just switched entirely with 6.x (maybe because people just kept saying X.0 instead of 0.X...)

[safe dragon]

imma now call it create 60

[grave meteor]

god I hate create

everyone always wants it on the server but imnot richlmfao

[cursive sigil]

Now it's no longer working on chrome either wtf happened

Well i guess it doesn't matter, what matters is i somehow managed to get atm9 to the sky so i'm just going to take the win

[devout vault]

I'd be very tempted to get that too since I like skyblock packs if not for the previously mentioned problem (actually getting to play through Spectrum, which is like half the reason I started being interested in modded MC again)

[supple ether]

Oh, interesting
That's probably for the best, anyways, since historically they've always been breaking changes

[ivory shadow]

Create is such a neat mod, but I've barely ever used it

[devout vault]

I tried it incredibly briefly when it first came out and haven't really used it since

How I got create fatigue is a mystery

[safe dragon]

I don't have create fatigue but my minecraft fatigue is so ingrained into my soul at this point that I will never play it anyway

[cinder karma]

I'm tired of making things too. Let's destroy

[pliant snow]

can you add a gradient color to a font in CSS

[lethal walrus]

yes but it's weird

p {
    background-image: linear-gradient(red, blue);
    color: transparent;
    background-clip: text;
}

[crystal wren]

Huh, looks like Discord's doing the gradient with a background gradient, yeah.

[lethal walrus]

also no IE for you https://caniuse.com/?search=background-clip

[crystal wren]

https://tenor.com/brpF1.gif

[devout vault]

What cursed nonsense is this

[lethal walrus]

gradient text

https://allegedly.meowing.today/VnNVLifImL

[pliant snow]

mayhaps

although there's currently no API to get the second color so I can't even if I wanted to

[lethal walrus]

aw

[devout vault]

What an interesting domain. I prefer definitely.meowing.today, though

Also, a typo made me discover that "domain" is two missing letters from being an anagram of "dopamine", which explains why people buy domains for random projects they never finish (or even start sometimes)

@cinder karma Given the new roles in bulletin board, you could be re-cheetoed and still have fancy gradient!

(The wildberry poptart gradient is still better though)

[frosty echo]

Or "Now I've bought the domain, I have to finish it"?

[red crest]

i already poked atra to get the role back, very adamant on being retired

[devout vault]

Also, what kind of nonsense is it for one of the core framework modders in the community (me) to not be considered a Mod Author Legend? >:( /s

[devout vault]

That's fair. I prefer the normal legend colors, too

[cinder karma]

I'm not even a good modder smh

[marble jewel]

Not even good, just great

[lethal walrus]

do you want my next invite just so you can do things with definitely.meowing.today

[cinder karma]

How about this

1:1 releases from my backlog and yours

[devout vault]

Me, actually making something (especially a website)? Ha, that's funny

[devout vault]

What will you do if I get back into modding in 6 months

[cinder karma]

Up to 4 mods

I'll pick up the role again if all four of them make it out

And I'll release one per mod in your backlog

[dusty pollen]

on the desktop app the gradients are animated but on mobile they aren’t

I would have thought it was equally easy to animate on both

[cinder karma]

No

[devout vault]

Did you update your mobile app?

Or maybe they haven't pushed a mobile update with it yet

[dusty pollen]

it must be updated because I see the gradients, just static haha

[devout vault]

Ah

On desktop (well, browser app version, since my desktop app is old) the gradients were only playing when I hovered over the message

[dusty pollen]

I think the dev gradient is my favourite ngl

[lethal walrus]

the little circle or the name

[dusty pollen]

the name

[lethal walrus]

oh

i should probably update then theyre stationary

[dusty pollen]

css animations here we come

I want to do something cursed but don’t have the energy for an actual project

someone recommend something I can’t go back to “failing at an ngram-based english-sounding-word generator in python”

[devout vault]

I just started an old game changer episode (the first one)

[lethal walrus]

i am struggling to get css animations to work and you're planning on cursed things?

i can't get my mods to scroll

[devout vault]

I could throw you my notes on the steam backlog decision tool 😛

[dusty pollen]

you inspire me, what can I say

isn’t that just a random number generator

[devout vault]

Nah, it's more fancy

It's based on tournament brackets, and you can filter stuff to fit your mood

[dusty pollen]

that sounds productive and sensible, casey

[devout vault]

You didn't ask for useless ideas

[dusty pollen]

completely against the vibe here

I asked for cursed!

[devout vault]

You specifically said "something"

Oh, I didn't realize those messages were connected

Hmm... finish Stardew3D+VR for me?

[dusty pollen]

I’m gonna back away slowly now

[devout vault]

Bit high on the effort side

😂

If you want to code in C# and Java, there's that one crazy double-mod idea I have

Talked about it in krobus a fair bit

[dusty pollen]

@cinder karma are you gonna get that fancy mixed role now btw

[devout vault]

#programmers-off-topic message

[dusty pollen]

-# I’m still not in that server lmao

[devout vault]

Also #programmers-off-topic message

[marble jewel]

I still think the non-mod gradient looks better than the one for modders, but that's just me

[devout vault]

I know but if you want to know more I could tell you about it 😛

[cursive sigil]

Be strong iro, she can smell fear

[dusty pollen]

also are you saying there are people who want to use java

-# will you accept scala instead

[red crest]

(i like the regular legend gradient the least out of any colour option, gradient or otherwise, in the server )

[devout vault]

I somehow doubt every minecraft modder does it in spite of the suffering involved.

Most of them, sure, but probably not all

[devout vault]

I think you can make scala minecraft mods right? In which case yes

[dusty pollen]

scala is if someone spent an evening alone with the jvm, haskell, and substances that shall not be named

[devout vault]

"where does C# come into play"
Have you not picked up on the cursed part yet

[dusty pollen]

and also decided that array indexing should use () instead of square

[dusty pollen]

no I am very familiar with this idea of yours already

[marble jewel]

There's a few Minecraft mods that allow mods to be loaded using other programming languages. I know there's a Kotlin one too.

[devout vault]

Are you thinking I'm talking about my C# to Java thing? Because I'm not

This is something extra cursed

[dusty pollen]

oh, do go on

[devout vault]

First, meme, hold on

(Screenshot of paint because once again new MS paint sucks for my purposes)

Anyways: this is the entry in my minecraft-modideas.txt

connect a Stardew file and a Minecraft world, allow travelling between them
    yes for multiplayer support
    yes for bringing (specifically implemented) items across the boundary
    no good reason this should exist, but still want to make it at some point
    conversation with some specifics: [#1105836157943676978 message](/guild/1050812568538714203/channel/1105836157943676978/)

(The link goes to the krobus conversation)

[cinder karma]

Oh my ducking god

I'm retired 😛

[cursive sigil]

But it's so fancy

[dusty pollen]

do it and then add archipelago support

[cinder karma]

Anyways

[devout vault]

Why are you telling me to do it, I was specifically telling you this because you were asking for a cursed idea to work on yourself

[cinder karma]

I'm gonna go apply the idea of constraints to knitting patterns if y'all KEEP asking me about it

Why don't we crown casey the legendary modder, she deserves it

[devout vault]

But yeah this idea may have crossed my mind after starting to watch a speedrun of zelda OoT<->MM randomizer

[dusty pollen]

I don’t think this falls within the bounds of my energy right now

[devout vault]

smh, beggers can't be choosers, or something

[cinder karma]

Drink a monster and try again

[devout vault]

Also isn't archipelago focused on two people on separate games progressing for each other?

This is literally going through a portal and arriving on the other game in single player, as if the two games are connected worlds.

[dusty pollen]

I have exactly .3 of a spoon

[devout vault]

(Multiplayer supported too, ideally)

[dusty pollen]

I thought archipelago was just a randomiser

[devout vault]

Hmm. I thought it was a randomizer for connecting multiple people across different games

[red crest]

I thought archipelago just connected random people across many games

[cursive sigil]

I also thought it was just a randomizer

[devout vault]

The website says it's for multi-game multiplayer

But yeah, this is more cursed than that

You could add a randomizer function to mix it up though

[dusty pollen]

the stardew archipelago person has a very fun explanation for why maru’s bedroom is actually the most important location in the game

[devout vault]

...huh?

[dusty pollen]

(the way I understood it, archipelago randomises things according to certain rules, so X room will always be unlocked by Y many things but those things may change or something, and her room is connected to a ton of unlocks?)

[cursive sigil]

Because it gets you into the carpenter's shop without discovering the carpenter's shop?

Close enough

[devout vault]

One of the things I've thought about doing lately is a new wind waker randomizer run

I did one in the past (and didn't finish because my browser lost the tracking website progress so I would've had to figure out a lot again) but it's been a while

[lethal walrus]

i got it working btw

if you want to see the fruits of my css battles it's in the planning server for the thing

[cinder karma]

I'm gonna murder svn

[placid niche]

I'm the Archipelago guy (for stardew) if anyone has questions about it

It is a randomizer. For many games. You can play it solo (and it's usually recommended to do a solo run first, before jumping in a multiworld)

It randomizes unlocks, across all the games of your multiworld. It supports stardew, minecraft, and hundreds of other games

[dusty pollen]

oh hi! accidental summon

[cursive sigil]

I understand that it's a multigame randomizer, the confusion came from if it's supposed to be multiple people in multiple games or one person in multiple games haha

[placid niche]

The core concept is task->reward. For example, buying a pickaxe upgrade is a task. Obtaining the higher tier pickaxe is a reward

[dusty pollen]

what did it do this time

[placid niche]

All rewards are shuffled in the multiworld and placed on random tasks in random games

It garamtees winnability for all players of course

[placid niche]

Both work, but usually multiple people

[devout vault]

RIP SVN, 2000-2025. Barely old enough to rent a car

[dusty pollen]

so can you teleport from one game to another?

[placid niche]

Some people run massive multiworlds that they play alone, all slots

[dusty pollen]

oh hey SVN and I are the same age

[cursive sigil]

Ah i see, thank you for clearing that up

[rain apex]

I put 20 bucks on svn

[placid niche]

No, all games are played separately, while connected to a master server that distributes founds unlocks

[rain apex]

Atra is powerful but svn more so in bad ways

[devout vault]

See? Told you it's a unique and cursed idea 😛

[placid niche]

Some games, like stardew, can also gift item, money, energy, to other games, live

[devout vault]

Huh, really? I didn't see that last time I looked at it, but I didn't look extensively

[rain apex]

So how do u make "give sdv grass block from minecraft" happen in archipelago

[placid niche]

I invented the cross game gifting system, so stardew was the first to get it

[rain apex]

I imagine i need a "grass block" object of some mystery use in sdv

[cursive sigil]

I'm assuming it needs to be something that exists in both games

[devout vault]

The idea for my cursed mod, for when you brought items from one game to another (either direction), was to implement versions of most things for the other game.

I had idea for blocks too, but of course not adding 3d physics/gameplay

[placid niche]

Minecraft doesn't have gifting. But if it did, it would probably turn to fiber

Cross game gifting is a protocol that works based on item traits, and finds the closest item, thematically, in the destination game

[cursive sigil]

That makes sense

[rain apex]

Well i can make like a literal placable grass block in sdv and make archipelago use that right

If i wanted to

[placid niche]

It is inherently designed so any game can join, without every other game needing to push an update

[dusty pollen]

what if you map gifting to a different, random action

[rain apex]

Or is the preference to pick vanilla analogous item

[placid niche]

Some gifts can turn to concepts instead of items

[devout vault]

fun fact my idea does not simply make them flooring - gotta make it so you can do fun redstone stuf in SDV after all

[placid niche]

Like a speed gift could gibe you a buff

[rain apex]

Sdv redstone...

[placid niche]

It's all up to the dev to implement whatever parsing they want for given traits

[rain apex]

Qigemdust

[dusty pollen]

anyway I think I did a terrible job explaining the maru room thing if you want to check my explanation of that lmao

[rain apex]

You crush qi gems and spread it

[cursive sigil]

Oh yes explain the maru room thing pls

[placid niche]

StardewAP has a built in entrance randomizer

Shuffles all doors and their destination

[devout vault]

Nope, you have to bring the redstone from minecraft into the valley.

Sorry, I don't make the rules

[placid niche]

Maru's door is, out of emergent design, one of the most critical ones in svap

Well, maru hearts are

[rain apex]

Deemed Export i see

[placid niche]

Because getting maru hearts actually opens 2-4 doors, and potentially gives you carpenter access which is a critical house to get

[cursive sigil]

So i did get part of it right, i knew it!

[placid niche]

It opens the outside door to maru's room. It opens the inside maru bedroom door, which if coming from carpenter gives you a door to outside (potentially GI access!), and if coming from the bedroom, it gives you carpenter access, a door to outside, and the Sebastian staircase

So you get at least one "inside" door, which is good but usual. Then it gives you a loop, which means an "outside" door, which can drop you somewhere big like Desert or GI, and potentially another inside door and access to Robin's shop and stuff. Which is huge

It is the single most powerful door unlock due to this. Very high potential to get to something good

[cinder karma]

I'm doing merges in binary files again

[placid niche]

So maru hearts are kind of a meme item due to how good they are, in archipelago, compared to how "meh" most hearts are in AP

[dusty pollen]

it feels like you're combining stardew and the strategies of a roguelite ngl, and as a roguelite enjoyer I can appreciate that

[dusty pollen]

why

[cursive sigil]

I really enjoyed watching Emma play it

[placid niche]

There are a few roguelikes in AP but they are often considered not very good candidates, ironically

Ironic because roguelikes are kind of randomizers

[cursive sigil]

I'm curious what exactly does making a mod compatible with archipelago involve

[placid niche]

Well while I have all of you here, head over to the Archipelago discord, we will be starting our public beta Playlist for version 7 of the mod, in about 7-10 days!

[devout vault]

wait until you see my other (but less cursed, though perhaps worse for mod compat) recent SDV mod idea

[placid niche]

Other SV mods?

[cursive sigil]

Yes

[placid niche]

Well, to be just compatible isn't so hard, just don't touch anything lmao

But to be "supported", as in, have your mod content be randomized, it's a bit more work

[cursive sigil]

Integrated*

[placid niche]

Needs to do both the generator and the mod

In our discord we have pins with the repositories, and kind-of instructions, but it's often incomplete as most devs work based on trial and error, and don't like writing documentation

[dusty pollen]

honestly I'm intrigued

[placid niche]

But if someone makes a genuine effort, I'll be there to guide them every step of the way

We used to have almost 30 integrated mods, but we lost a third of them in the 1.6 transition

[dusty pollen]

stardew roguelite sounds fantastic if you can actually create some stuff with the potential for really satisfying synergy

[placid niche]

They were all added by one person, who is not working on them anymore, so now we have no dedicated mods person

[devout vault]

There's tons of design stuff to figure out. The main part is just to compress a full playthrough into like 2-4 hours though

[placid niche]

Alright I gotta go, don't hesitate to ping me with more questions, here, in DMs, or in one of the Archipelago discords (there is a generic one, and one for just StardewAP)

Have a good one!

[devout vault]

Not liking writing documentation is a big mood

[cursive sigil]

I loved doing elden ring randomizers before i lost the ability to play elden ring lol so i've been very intrigued by archipelago but i haven't actually tried it because i'm used to playing with lots of mods

[dusty pollen]

do you specifically want a full play through? because I feel like stardew would work better as a roguelite with some heavy constraints/refactoring

like what if a single run is an in game week or season

[devout vault]

The original idea was yeah, though maybe I could change it to a multiple routes to win sort of thing and then add roguelite elements specifically, yeah

[placid niche]

Stardew AP has many, many settings, and you can craft short playthroughs if you want

[cinder karma]

Someone made a stardew rougelite

[placid niche]

Shortest I've done myself is 4 hours. I know people have done 2 hours

[devout vault]

If it's the one I'm thinking of it's pure combat though

[cinder karma]

It is

[placid niche]

CC with every bundle costing just one item can go very very fast

[devout vault]

I was thinking closer to the normal SDV gameplay loop

[dusty pollen]

boo, I don't want combat

[cinder karma]

Clearly you need to make your own combat

[cursive sigil]

I don't want combat either

[cinder karma]

Tbh if any modder could it would be you

[devout vault]

looks back at combat overhaul mod

[cinder karma]

I believe

[devout vault]

also looks back at my turn based combat idea from ages ago

[cinder karma]

I'm going to duckign scream at svn

[dusty pollen]

I sincerely hope you're talking about Casey and not me

[devout vault]

I can't do anything these days! /s

[dusty pollen]

and I can? /lh

[cursive sigil]

Hey you're doing well in blue prince

[devout vault]

(or anything that lasts across a sleep period anyways)

[cinder karma]

Ofc I'm talking about casey

[dusty pollen]

this is the first time me playing blue prince has been mentioned publicly in this server because I'm that paranoid of spoilers

[cinder karma]

Iro, you're going to help me with the constraints based knitting pattern generator

[dusty pollen]

honestly I'm intrigued by this too

[cursive sigil]

Oh i'm so sorry i outed your game playing activities lmao

[devout vault]

Make a program that also shows a 3d model of the result

[dusty pollen]

you should be! /lh

[cinder karma]

Do I look like a game dev to you

Do I look even remotely competent at that

[devout vault]

That's not game dev

3d doesn't mean game dev

[dusty pollen]

what constraints are we applying to knitting patterns

and what kind of generating are we doing

[devout vault]

Heck a big portion of unreal engine's market these days is explicitly non-game stuff

[placid niche]

Ads to that a starting key to the town and a bunch of movement speed and bite rate bonuses and you'll be zooming by

[cursive sigil]

You're generating fun, clearly

[dusty pollen]

also atra have you ever used the LaTeX knitting package to create cable charts?

highly recommend, 10/10, happy to send you some of my old cables I threw in there that are not very heavily tested if at all

[cinder karma]

Think of, say, a colorwork chart

In a yoke. I'm constrained to x repeats in y rows

[cinder karma]

No 3d means protein foldinf

[devout vault]

Anyways if you feel like doing a bunch of the design work, at least for an initial pass to iterate on, feel free to let me know and I might actually make it 😛

Unlike most of my other ideas (in general), that one is at a design barrier not a coding barrier

[dusty pollen]

oh I can ideasman it

[cinder karma]

So I can be like

[devout vault]

I usually can (as evidenced by my minecraft mod idea list), but for some reason this one not so much

[cinder karma]

We want a sweater of this style. I constraint to these patterns

These stitch patterns

I want to hit these measurements

And this is my guage

Explore this space

[cinder karma]

Tbh if you want to take a break and go work on Minecraft for a while

[devout vault]

I still do! But I need to get my C#-to-Java thing working! (and frameworky stuff isn't as fun at the moment)

That SDV mod in particular (and the cross-minecraft one) are the only two SDV ones I feel like I could get myself to work on right now

[cinder karma]

Do something simple in Java

Like the jump mod

[devout vault]

I don't wanna java :(((

That and one of the other mods are the only two I'd consider doing with java though

[cinder karma]

Join me in aggressive memory optimization?

[devout vault]

That's too framework adjacent

Specifically want to do content stuff 😛

[cinder karma]

Tbh I don't have good ideas for gameplay either anymore, just waging a very slow war against memory

[devout vault]

This could also be interpreted as increasing forgetfulness! 😛

[cinder karma]

Yes

Anyways @devout vault I was serious about the 1:1 offer from earlier

One mod from your backlog (any game) yields one from mine

[dusty pollen]

I had to step away for a few minutes but I think I actually have a rough idea for a stardew roguelite if you want casey

it probably relies on the ability to shorten seasons into lasting only a week or two though lmao

[devout vault]

Fun fact, I've contemplated making mods to add more seasons before (though that was before things got changed to the Season enum)

[cinder karma]

Enums are just ints in disguise

I was actually thinking about the cookie clicker farm game

[devout vault]

And I've committed crimes that way before, but some of the game's code may not like that compare to the old string implementation 😛

[cinder karma]

You're not going to take up the offer huh

[devout vault]

The whims of my attention span are unpredictable

If only we had cecil support so I could just add enum entries...

[cinder karma]

You're wise.

[devout vault]

(Or, an API like minecraft modding has for extending enums)

[rain apex]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2666510/Rustys_Retirement/

Steam

Rusty's Retirement

Rusty's Retirement is an idle-farming simulator designed to sit at the bottom of your screen allowing you to work on other tasks while caring for your farm!…

Price

$6.99

Recommendations

12160

▶ Play video

[heavy dagger]

Title result: Rusty's Retirement on Steam

[cinder karma]

Ew

[rain apex]

this was neat i like the bottom o screen idea

[cinder karma]

I like my smol enums

[devout vault]

I saw that

Not too interested in idle games myself though

[cinder karma]

Oh I thought that was a retirement joke at me

Clearly you just need custom serialization code

Also happy juneteenth

[dusty pollen]

anyway, and putting aside feasibility, your finite resource is your stamina. You nerf basically all energy regeneration including from food or from sleeping, with some exceptions.

Your goal is a simplified version of the community center. At the start of each run, you start with however much base stamina is decided at a later point.

Each day, Pierre sells only three types of seeds (and joja can also sell two other seeds but with some downside ig?) in limited quantities. Stardrops are permanent and increase your base stamina for all runs from that point on.

Each day you also get to choose to mail an item to one of three NPCs (you are not able to raise friendship any other way) and each NPC gives you a small useful ability that scales depending on how much friendship they gained from it and how many hearts they have. Friendship between hearts resets each run but once you get a full heart with a given NPC, you start each run with that many hearts with that NPC from that point on, allowing you to have better abilities from them.

[devout vault]

and putting aside feasibility
Good, because that has never stopped me before

[cinder karma]

That sounds fun

[rain apex]

i dont think feasiblity is the problem

[dusty pollen]

I tried to put in as many of the basic elements of roguelites that I could think of but how fun it is will really depend on the NPC abilities tbh (and possibly making it so that different crops grow better with each other or something)

[cinder karma]

Compat is overrated

[rain apex]

just compatibility (approximately 0)

[devout vault]

See, I don't want to stop at community center

[red crest]

i wont download if its not compatible with SVE

[devout vault]

I want GI and dangerous mines and stuff

[dusty pollen]

oh, this is assuming you have already decided that compat is dead

[devout vault]

Well duh

The only compat is for mods specifically made for it

[red crest]

(feels like ive not even changed channels.... )

[devout vault]

(And I would likely want it data driven so people could do just that)

[devout vault]

I don't want to venture back into #making-mods-general right now though

[rain apex]

smh being ontopic in offtopic

[devout vault]

Could make a secret thraed

[red crest]

thats what i say about this channel a lot of the time too

[rain apex]

that said idk if this should even be a mod

[dusty pollen]

I feel like community center is easiest to translate to a “big final goal” but you can make it so that GI is unlocked a different way and included in the CC

[devout vault]

See: #programmers-off-topic message

[red crest]

you save GI for the DLC

[rain apex]

it seems like a smol game thats vaguely farming themed

[devout vault]

I've had this thought and it's why I started on one of my game projects.

But working on an existing engine is so much easier

[dusty pollen]

well but that’s scarier than saying you’re making a mod

[devout vault]

+not needing to come up with new art and sounds and stuff

[rain apex]

yea

ok but

what if it is a mod, a cultist simulator mod

the thing iro describe remind me of the management thing in there

[devout vault]

(That being said, could probably make a standalone game that only runs if you have SDV installed, and pulls from it for assets so you don't redistribute anything... But still have to code a lot of the engine)

[devout vault]

Aren't there multiple games like this

[rain apex]

yea sure i picked the one i personally played b4

[red crest]

can you make it a mod for a game with more wlw content in it instead to appease me

thanks

[dusty pollen]

cult of the lamb?

[devout vault]

I mean if I were doing this I'd specifically want you to be able to marry an NPC to get a helper or something, does that count?

[dusty pollen]

(that fits into the hearts thing, because marrying an npc would be a permanent unlock and allow you to get way stronger abilities from them)

[devout vault]

This sounds decent but even outside of "beyond CC" that I wanted I'd kinda need more details to actually start on this.

Definitely further along than I had thought of it in the past though

[devout vault]

(I agree on the hearts but I like the idea of them helping out some too 😛 )

[red crest]

what if i just wanna marry them for fun

[devout vault]

(It'd be fun to have each spouse do better at specific things but then that promotes a meta pick rather than picking the person you like. Might not necessarily be a bad thing but is a slight qualm I have with existing mods that add spouse benefits 😛 )

[cinder karma]

Got it

Buying fountain pens

[cinder karma]

Got it

Svnnnnn

[dusty pollen]

yes, that's what I meant! each NPC should give you a certain unique ability that you should choose mechanically by gifting them, with higher heart level npcs giving much more powerful versions of their abilities, therefore making your choice of spouse mechanical for the best one

[devout vault]

I'd prefer marrying for love over who can make my life more efficient 😛 (/s but not /s)
(Though one could argue adding mechanical benefits makes making that choice despite any potential mechanics all the more meaningful...)

[steel kraken]

having a tier list for spouses

[cinder karma]

Tier 1: maru

[rain apex]

i thought we just discussed how maru is T0

[steel kraken]

abigail is S tier

[devout vault]

Penny is transcendent and can not be contained by your mere tier lists

[rain apex]

penny is P tier but spenny is S tier

[red crest]

whats the top most tier for me to put Haley in

[cinder karma]

Gold

[devout vault]

You know this sort of tier list format? Penny is like one of those top tiers, and Spenny is the same but spinning in a T-pose

[devout vault]

You know, if we put every spouse at the top tier but each top tier is from a different ranking system, they can all be top tier without conflict

Like tier 1, tier S, gold tier, etc.

[steel kraken]

bloodgulch outpost alpha, bloodgulch outpost #1

[rain apex]

krobus is banned in smash

[devout vault]

Reminds me of back when brawl modding kicked off with the clone engine, I wanted to mod in minecraft and terraria stuff

[steel kraken]

meanwhile nintendo did that for you with minecraft steve

[devout vault]

Unfortunately both of my ideas for that would've involved a bunch of projectiles which were kinda tricky because you couldn't create new ones - you were limited to the amount the character you cloned had

[devout vault]

Yeah, some of the moveset is kinda boring but I'll admit I never would've tried the block placement stuff

Like I wanted steve to throw an ender pearl for the up B (this was pre-elytra)

[steel kraken]

my understanding is that steve has kinda broken competitive

[devout vault]

Yeah I've heard that too

But I didn't care about competitive

Like, my preferred mod of choice was Brawl Minus

The one that made everything balanced by making everyone overpowered

(And gimicky)

Fun fact, I modded brawl kirby to have infinite jumps

Terrible for competitive play but fine for casual use 😛

[steel kraken]

just infinite camp under final destination

[devout vault]

We didn't play with a time limit

3 stock free for all (usually no items)

We also had the "life rule", which meant you could only go after players with the most lives besides yourself.

So if I had 2 lives and one brother (A) had 1 life and the other (B) had 3, I and brother A had to go after brother B, but brother B had to go after me

[rain apex]

so what would a stardew farmer moveset be like

[devout vault]

(Of course there were times when it was accidentally broken, but it's the spirit of it that counts)

[rain apex]

does farmer count as one of the anime people with swords

[cinder karma]

Hit with pickaxe

[devout vault]

Probably something close to the animal crossing villagers to be honest

[cinder karma]

Heyyy nick uploaded a video on memory leaks

[devout vault]

The saddest part of brawl modding is the clone engine didn't give kirby new copy abilities for modded characters, it just gave kirby nothing

The next saddest part was my brother's avoiding characters with fun copy abilities

(In Brawl Minus, olimar's thrown pikmin did cause knockback, which made it particularly fun/oppresive for kirby to use it with multiple jumps (Even without infinite). Same for pikachu's copy ability, which was similar)

[steel kraken]

sword/hammer, slingshot, bomb, fishing rod, place bed or trellis plant
movement could be warp sceptre or for more interesting mechanics, mini obelisk

[cinder karma]

How hard would it be to make an lsp for verilog anyways

[steel kraken]

what would an lsp for verilog do?

[cinder karma]

I mean I would be happy if it told me like

You dumbass you're missing a semicolon

Or "you paired task with end, not endtask"

[steel kraken]

static syntax stuff isn't too bad

[cinder karma]

Or "you don't need a semicolon"

[steel kraken]

though you don't need an lsp to do the basics and can do the cursed textmate format stuff

[cinder karma]

Or "you declared this as an output reg but you try to assign"

Or "macro no exist

Or "you misspelled VDD1P8 as VDD1p8

[steel kraken]

contextural stuff is doable, but to make your life not suck, your program needs to be able to understand the contents in the editor directly

what makes my debugger mod a PITA is for any contextual understanding I need to go between the raw json (and more specifically talk about line numbers and ranges) and the CP state which has no concept of that because theres two layers of abstractions between the actual json file and the state

LSP and to a lesser extent DAP are both protocols that are from the editors PoV, and meets the editor where it is

[cinder karma]

All my context is in text files I can access

And are listed in something that's called the .f file

Er. Most of it

I'm in vim

I'm actually learning to love vim

Ichor might have a point

[steel kraken]

I like both having a cursor, and don't have the patience to rewire my brain to try and respect editor modes

if I need to edit a file in the command line, I will use nano, or just pipe echo into the file

[cinder karma]

My coworkers have gotten used to me typing gibberish in teams

I also made a bunch of fun custom navigation commands

[steel kraken]

if I want to do anything serious, vscode (and vs prime for C#) are right there

[cinder karma]

Lol

Sinz I can't install anything

If I could someone made verilog extensions alreasy

[worn remnant]

what are you talking about. i don't recommend vi/m to people

[cinder karma]

Don't you use it

[worn remnant]

sure, but i also tell people that i'm a weird dinosaur who makes bad decisions

[cinder karma]

Well

I'm an ancient idiot who makes terrible decisions

Case in point, rainbow name

[red crest]

you may have been thinking of selph

[steel kraken]

are you going to get the cheeto rainbow?

[cinder karma]

I'm intentionally misreading the rules

To get the orange back I need to re earn it

[steel kraken]

fair enough

I have all of july off in leave, so will try to make progress on the debugger

which as I'm trying to do as much as possible on the dap/lsp side, would be semi trivial to have a neovim plugin or whatever use it, but I wont be making or maintaining that adapter myself

[cinder karma]

I do want to get at least the appearances rework out

And the map renderer rewrite

[steel kraken]

I also want to rewrite the profiler website in solid to not be laggy when looking at 5 hour long logs, and have actual filters

[supple ether]

I was pretty surprised that maps use spritebatches instead of baking meshes, at least for the non-front layers which are unaffected by layering

Seems like that would be way more efficient, since you would only need to recalculate when tiles change, which isn't often. (animations you could still use sb for)

It would mean rendering more offscreen polygons but like... I think it would still be more performant except for very very large maps, and even then, you could break it into chunks

[crystal wren]

Um... what.

https://account.hypr.land/pricing

[cyan shadow]

The... Marketing for this is questionable

You cannot call it FOSS anymore if you're charging for features, in any case

[cursive sigil]

Quill you're so shiny

[crystal wren]

The core thing could be if this "premium desktop experience" is a completely separate closed source package or something, though!

So you could... but it'd still be shitty.

The name is what I expect to get them the most backlash.

[cinder karma]

Shiny name, quill!

[cyan shadow]

I sporkle!

[devout vault]

I did this for a game project at one point, though I included animations and just updated the vertex array for those.

[devout vault]

What’s hyprland? The home page told me nothing

[crystal wren]

(Atra, did you want re-cheeto'd for the shiny cheeto role? )

[cinder karma]

(No )

[crystal wren]

(I had to try!)

[cyan shadow]

Yeah it's still shit
Donations are fine, but the rest of this gives me the ick

[cursive sigil]

Petition to redust atra

[crystal wren]

A tiling DE, essentially.

[devout vault]

In other news, I woke up thinking about Minecraft<->Stardew bridge.

Dumb impractical (for single player) idea, but sync Stardew days and Minecraft days (including sleeping)

[cyan shadow]

Petition to give atra a shiny rust role instead

[crystal wren]

Desktop environment, window manager, etc.

[devout vault]

I think you’re like the fourth person to try and ask 😛

Just in this channel

[cinder karma]

#programmers-off-topic message

[cyan shadow]

Rust Ambassador

[cinder karma]

So what does premium.....do

[devout vault]

I could make it a config option mainly used for people playing multiplayer, though I don’t like other options for handling time as much.

[cyan shadow]

Role icon is a ball of yarn

[cinder karma]

Morning, casey!

[crystal wren]

We don't know yet!

[devout vault]

Still in bed and want sleep but not sure if can fall back asleep

[cinder karma]

Premium support isn't that unusual imo

[devout vault]

Yeah, it’s not

[crystal wren]

Yeah, it's the premium experience part that's a little concerning.

[cinder karma]

Premium features....well it has to tell you what it is

If they're kneecapping the product for premium that is scummy

[devout vault]

It’s certainly not a new tactic though. When I was looking at UI stuff the other day I saw Avalonia does a similar thing

[cyan shadow]

My objection is introducing it without clarity on what it does or limits

[cinder karma]

Also, quill, I finally plugged in my old stereo that only plays cassette, CD, and radio, and put on an old Chinese comedy show

[devout vault]

That makes sense

[cinder karma]

Which is what my alarm clock is

[cyan shadow]

[cinder karma]

The same comedy show. Every morning. Jokes on Chinese grammer