programmers-off-topic

[grave meteor]

lmfao I will happily forget to do stuff until my partner is like uhh shroom did u uh do that thing u were supposed to

I will do the hyperfixation for 6-8 hours a day until I get bored its so bad

[sand frost]

Similar to chu, I’ve always been prone to excessive focus but never to the point it’s a real problem

[cinder karma]

It is possible to nerdsnipe me

Count the number of times you find me in #making-mods-general at 4am

[sand frost]

I used to insist that I paint every single color all the way to the edge of the paper when I was in preschool

[cinder karma]

But I don't think I get the adhd hyperfixation

[sand frost]

So my mom would get all these massive brown pieces of paper coming home with me

It turns out “mix every color” is not a recipe for artistic success

[cinder karma]

Ooh! Classical! Lindehobby has yarn on sale

[sand frost]

What is a lindehobby?

[cinder karma]

I've had it in my head to make a stuffy academia cable vest with DNA cables for half a year

Online yarn store

I bought some of the yarn for it from Joann's ages ago

And the rest from lindehobby this morning

I'm so excited

[sand frost]

Nice!!!

[grave meteor]

ive stocked up on my fabrics

I love to sew and do my halloween costumes yearly

[sand frost]

Hmm, Halloween is a Friday this year

I should think about what to do for it

[cinder karma]

I'm also not sure what "hyperfixation" means

[grave meteor]

Me in my sewed robe

[sand frost]

I take it to mean those times when I look up and realize 6 hours have passed, everyone else has gone home, and I’ve done none of my actual work in favor of doing some side project

[cinder karma]

There have been days where I'm like

[sand frost]

I like the colors! Purple is best color

[cinder karma]

Atra. You need to go home early
Go home

[grave meteor]

its my fav color

[sand frost]

Mine too

[cinder karma]

And then I look up and it's 8pm

[grave meteor]

and tyyy sorry i got so exited for the purple love

[cinder karma]

And I haven't moved

[sand frost]

I think it also depends on like, why that happens

Because I get that when I’m just too tired and my chair is too comfy

[grave meteor]

I started finding things to do bc I cannot just sit here all day lmfao bc my hobbies are digital ones

[sand frost]

Which feels different from not realizing so much time passed

[cinder karma]

Almost all my hobbies are away from the computer these days

[grave meteor]

today my sense of time is so bad

[cinder karma]

(Ie.)

[grave meteor]

I thought it was like 340 at 2pm

[cinder karma]

(I literally have, as my pinned message, that I do not plan on updating. If I update it will have been unplanned.)

[sand frost]

Reading is very difficult, you see

[cinder karma]

You know what it's like, Classical

[grave meteor]

some of my friends have the most unhinged replies to people asking annoying shit

[sand frost]

One day you look up and it’s been 6 months since you logged into nexus?

[cinder karma]

When your planned tasks are already more than what you can do in a day

[grave meteor]

ive had a mod in the works since spring

[sand frost]

I temporarily feel like I’ve gotten back down below that point but yes

[grave meteor]

and I havent finished, i drink adn im like yes time to work then get too sleepy

[cinder karma]

Well it's summer, isn't it

How are your froshlings

[grave meteor]

im more timely normally

[cinder karma]

I have trained myself in such a way where if I put something in my todo list, it will get done

Come hell or high water

[sand frost]

Full of struggles, but doing well

The robot, as always, is not behaving

[grave meteor]

I just like prefer to write the dialog for my mod while a bit tipsy bc its just easier to just write. I am not a good writer it really REALLY stresses me out and the issue is I just end up getting really sleepy

so its like the once in a blue moon im not wanting to be with my partner and have actual free time to myself (this is never basically)

[cinder karma]

adds a vest to my todo list

[grave meteor]

THATS ON MINE

[rain apex]

how do i delet this

[red crest]

i unmuted the category but then muted every channel individually and that seems to have hidden all vc channels entirely for me
along with the "hide muted channels" server option

[grave meteor]

i put it there bc im evil

[rain apex]

1000 yr jail 4 u

[rain apex]

ok this worked 4 the green thing ty button

[grave meteor]

I uh refuse

[rain apex]

It's free

[grave meteor]

☠️

No

I refuse to accept free jail

[rain apex]

ok it cost $3.50 but theres free water

[grave meteor]

Nah not sold

[rain apex]

limited promo $2.99

[grave meteor]

-1000000 then we got a deal

USD that is

[rain apex]

the price is unsigned int sorry

[grave meteor]

(The negative is for you bc your paying me)

Diabolical behavior

[ivory shadow]

It being the month it is, I realized I showed off the gooseMasamune emote combo but not the pride version. So, months later... behold:

[dusty pollen]

10/10

[cursive sigil]

Beautiful

[devout vault]

Given the way the emotes work, that means you can build your own pride sword

[pliant snow]

https://archlinux.org/news/transition-to-the-new-wow64-wine-and-wine-staging/

Soon, the only reason to need multilib is just for Steam

[safe dragon]

world of warcraft 64

thanks steam

[devout vault]

I started typing this joke when I saw aquo's link but then I kept reading and saw you already did 😔

[safe dragon]

soz

[cinder karma]

Long in the past but

At work I found out illustrator svgs are just terrible

2mb when the equivalent illustrator svg is like 100kb

Anyways

Back to your usual off topic pondering

Sock tax

[grave meteor]

Ooo socks

Socks to me are the best gift one can give bc who doesn't like socks yk

[safe dragon]

I am starting to run out of socks that aren't falling apart

[devout vault]

My KAR obsession has ascended - the discord server unlocked server tags, so now I have KAR by my name at all times

Which begs the question: should I change my username back to normal on this server?

[rain apex]

KartyKarKarsey

[pliant snow]

KARKARKAR

[devout vault]

I found a list of minecraft shader packs and it has a column labeled "FPS Cost". Love how one of the packs, listed beyond "extreme", has an fps cost with the label "screenshots"

[safe dragon]

"we imported the blender renderer into the game"

[devout vault]

Unfortunately it appears that only the icon is showing and not the KAR tag, so I will not be changing my username back at this time

[safe dragon]

what do you mean

[devout vault]

I guess discord just hates me

(My discord client may be really out of date, but it's the same on web)

...I wonder if it's from being in compact mode

I also don't see the role icons? How did I not notice those were gone

[safe dragon]

compact mode

[devout vault]

RIPPPP

I'm not switching off of compact mode

[safe dragon]

ok I switched back cause I think compact mode is ugly as sin

I have no IRC nostalgia

[devout vault]

I like seeing more messages on the screen

I have avatars showing

[safe dragon]

I see more than enough...

[devout vault]

Give me toggles for role icons and server tag text too

[safe dragon]

I ain't reading further back than that

[devout vault]

Well, to be fair, I'm on compact mode but my messages seem to reach the same point as yours do 😛 (If I scroll so that the image you posted is just off screen, it reaches the same point)

[marble jewel]

Compact mode, so efficient, but not aesthetic

[safe dragon]

I like a good balance

[marble jewel]

I'm a cozy mode myself

[safe dragon]

I will hate on any website that seems scared to have more than 5 pieces of text fit on screen at a time

but I do like some padding

[marble jewel]

Densely packed information makes it more difficult for me to focus

[devout vault]

I definitely like some padding, but for chat programs I like the level compact mode does (and whatever settings I have it at)

[safe dragon]

though to be fair I think apple (and thus the entire western design world) is moving away from extremely minimal UIs again

[devout vault]

We're finally losing the "make a shape and flood fill it" type design elements?

That makes me so happy

[marble jewel]

whispers glass....

[safe dragon]

I think this is ugly as hell but it they didn't shy away from the info dump...

this is the entire width of the screen btw

there's padding on the left but not the right

[devout vault]

"#bringbackdropshadows"

[marble jewel]

At least the boxes help you focus on a single element at a time

[devout vault]

I assume if you have it scroll through all the right menu items that would be reversed?

Not really a fan of those either, just let it wrap onto a new line of items

[safe dragon]

yeah this is the alternative

[devout vault]

Yeah I'm a carousel (is it still called that?) hater too

[safe dragon]

there aren't actually more items so it's just these 5 in a slightly different spot

I've programmed an infinitely automatically scrolling carousel thing at work for self checkouts where you could take over at any point and scroll yourself

it was a nightmare to make it feel ok and I don't even think it was a nice design

[devout vault]

Also a hater of the menus where they are all hidden by a single button, like the hamburger menus (are those still called that?)

I get it for mobile

But I'm on a desktop 95% of the time

[safe dragon]

they do be hamburger menus

[devout vault]

I don't like infinite scrolling either

[safe dragon]

it's a good name

[devout vault]

Not even because of the part about them making it easier to scroll endlessly and never get things for the endless search for dopamine.

They just kinda suck

One of the first things I turn off when I install Reddit Enhancement Suite

(The day old reddit dies is the day I stop using it much)

[safe dragon]

they're especially fun if they don't remember your scroll position in any way if you navigate back to the page or reload or something

a webshop with infinite scrolling but when you navigate back after checking out an item and oops you're back at the top

[devout vault]

Speaking of old reddit, I think it's funny how they removed reddit gold way back when, and I've heard they added it back but it's not on old reddit with the new implementation

[devout vault]

Yeah that's a big part of why I hate them.

I guess I'm just a hater of a lot of modern web design stuff

[safe dragon]

you've got like a billion types of reddit medal things

[devout vault]

Time to tell kids to get off my lawn

[devout vault]

I thought the bajillion types was one reason they got rid of them (supposedly)

[marble jewel]

I'm not a fan of infinite scrolling either, but apparently our preference is outdated

[safe dragon]

I've been semi-designing a front-end due to work and I gotta balance out making it look modern and me thinking it's actually good to use

[devout vault]

I don't think it's outdated so much as people get addicted to the endless scroll

[marble jewel]

I'd much rather have predictable paginated than a scrolling layout that changes every time I refresh for many things

[safe dragon]

the tables/grid on the this frontend do have infinite scroll I'm afraid but they're essentially pretending to be excel/access grids so that was inevitable

it remembers your scroll position though if you reload

when did I become a front end dev

it's not even in my job description

my title is C# engineer

[marble jewel]

Infinite scrolling isn't too bad as long as when I revisit a page, I can return to the same item I was viewing when I left, and resume my doomscrolling

[safe dragon]

well ur good then

[marble jewel]

Or rather, that depends on if I"m viewing a chronological feed

[devout vault]

Didn't you hear, those don't exist anymore

Everything has to go through The Algorithm ™️ now

[marble jewel]

I just hate when I have to find my position, or even worse it's just lost forever

[marble jewel]

Talk about hate, I absolutely loathe this

[safe dragon]

imagine calling something a timeline and then making it an algorithmic feed

thanks facebook

[devout vault]

This sometimes happens to me on old reddit without RES infinite scroll. I'll click next page and at the last moment decide I want to look at something on the last page, so I press the back button, but the feed updates slightly and a few items are replaced

[marble jewel]

Maybe the one thing Windows Recall would be good for, even though the concept overall is too creepy for me

[devout vault]

(Tangentially related but I hate how I have to screenshot MS paint for my dumb memes now, since Ctrl+A + Ctrl+C ends up acting weird with the transparency and layers support)

[marble jewel]

Be a total boomer and take a cell phone picture of your screen

[devout vault]

I hate windows recall so much, and that was before it got pointed out that it would screenshot your conversations with other people if they had it on just by nature of how it works, so you literally can't keep it from being stored unless you only send stuff to people who don't have it

[marble jewel]

But it's secure now

[devout vault]

I have to do this for screenshotting anime (or other streamed video) thanks to the DRM stuff 😔

[marble jewel]

I mean, according to them it was already secure before, but it's really secure now

[devout vault]

ShareX just ends up seeing a black screen

You know what would make it the most secure? It not existing

[marble jewel]

Digital is overrated, time to switch back to analog formats

[devout vault]

Gonna disagree with you on there, I like making silly little video games and mods too much 😔

[marble jewel]

I'd like to see you DRM my red, yellow, white, and green analog cables

[devout vault]

Aren't there display cables with drm support now or something

[safe dragon]

this has always worked perfectly fine for me

[tranquil grove]

some streaming drm is still defeated by turning off hardware acceleration in firefox, though idk if that applies for crunchyroll or w/e

[marble jewel]

All I know is that back in my days, they had to release full games on cartridges/discs because there was no such thing as updates

[devout vault]

It only started within the last year or so for me

[devout vault]

...huh, really?

Brb

[ivory shadow]

:D

[devout vault]

😠

Don't emojify me discord

>:(

[safe dragon]

i use asbplayer to sentence mine from video which I think also does drm circumvention

[marble jewel]

#old-people-complaining

[devout vault]

I'm fine with some auto-emojis, but >:( is one I explicitly don't want emojified

[ivory shadow]

:(

[devout vault]

I'm not sopposed to updates, I'm opposed to what that has enabled companies to do

[devout vault]

Sentence?

[tranquil grove]

I haven't checked recently, but it worked on HBO and such for a long time
(it also makes browser animations feel laggy when it's off, so I had to toggle it a lot)

[marble jewel]

You mean how every game is an early access whether they label it that way or not?

[safe dragon]

taking a sentence and its translation and turning it into a flashcard with recording and screenshot

asbplayer automates the whole thing

[devout vault]

Do I need to restart the browser after disabling it? If not, it doesn't work for crunchyroll

[tranquil grove]

you do need to restart iirc, yeah

[devout vault]

Oh, cool, it does work.

Unfortunately you can't turn off hardware acceleration per site

[tranquil grove]

(I should read the other half of that light novel)

[devout vault]

I still need to

I read through LN 2

[marble jewel]

You can install a separate streaming browser

If you don't mind switching between them

[devout vault]

I do mind

[marble jewel]

How many tabs are you rocking nowadays?

[devout vault]

But yeah I've been thinking of going back and rewatching + rereading + reading what I haven't of that series

I heard the dubbed version of the anime is really fun (similar to how the love is war dub is insane), so want to try that

[devout vault]

Only 765 at the moment

[marble jewel]

I should be like the "(1000 Mods)" people, except have it be like "(1000 Tabs)"

[tranquil grove]

I never have the attention span for much anime, but same on the LN, looks like I finished LN 2 too
haven't kept up with the manga version recently, but it's the "very slow and faithful" adaptation type w/ good expressions

[devout vault]

Oh yeah, since I use sharex for my screenshots, this will be forever immortalized in my screenshots folder now. How fun

[safe dragon]

I have a whole 1 tab open

[devout vault]

I usually don't for binging, but occasionally there'll be an anime where I can (I think this was one of them)

[tranquil grove]

(similar to Otherside Picnic, very big fan of the LN and manga)

also I have browsers clear almost everything on close, though I gave in to keeping login cookies like this year

possibly from growing up w/ shared PCs that would've been a mess to use

[devout vault]

Yeah I've heard the manga has some stuff the anime doesn't which I'm curious about.

Like, I saw screenshots of a couple pages during ||the time Rae basically gave up after quitting being a maid for Claire, and in the screenshot Rae's best friend (can't recall her name, the one in the above screenshot) was commenting how Rae had reverted back to how she was pre-isekai (so, before the character got replaced by the protoganist)||

[tranquil grove]

doesn't ring a bell from the LN either unless it's in the next arc, but sounds interesting

[devout vault]

How far did you get in the LN?

I think it might've been something added

And I'm all for added stuff that fits the original story

[tranquil grove]

end of LN 2 and the main arc, and yeah, I don't think that was in it

I heard vague spoilers about the upcoming stuff and waited to wait until I mostly forgot it, which I have

[devout vault]

That's as far as I got in LN 2

I heard vague spoilers on later stuff too (in this channel I think during a previous conversation about it). It was vague enough that I am mainly curious what the heck made it happen (and who, since it was more about a specific thing happening but not what characters were involved)

[tranquil grove]

yeah, w/e I caught seemed pretty wild, iirc people were arguing about whether it was good or bad in the dynasty scans forums

anything with an actual LN t/n gets pretty spoilery there (and elsewhere ig)

[devout vault]

All I really know about LN3 is I think from the LN2 afterword

Or maybe from the introduction paragraph on amazon

Having a hard time finding the manga panel. And the site I usually check manga on only has the two most recent chapters of the manga (I assume because DMCA)

[tranquil grove]

if it's mangadex, yeah, they got hit by a big multi-publisher takedown recently
(which didn't affect yuri much, but got some of the big ones like that)

looks like it's not up to date on either one I use, which is rough, but having an official t/n tends to do that

[devout vault]

Ah, found it on the site you mentioned people arguing on.

Chapter 23, pages 18 through 21

[cinder karma]

Reddit?

[devout vault]

This site

[cinder karma]

Are people arguing on reddit again

(How are you, casey?)

[devout vault]

I think it's impossible for that not to be the case

[devout vault]

Well I got up at 4 AM this morning, so almost back to normal sleep schedule again

[tranquil grove]

I mean, probably, yeah this was people arguing on a lesbian comic book site about weird plot twists

[cinder karma]

Lesbian comic book site sounds fun

[devout vault]

Lesbian comic book site? Is that site not just a general scanlation one?

[cinder karma]

How long will that stay?

[devout vault]

Without anything requiring me to maintain it? Probably not even a week

[tranquil grove]

dynasty-scans is mostly yuri focused, though officially they'll host whatever they feel like

and they used to translate touhou yuri/etc like 20 years ago but got out of the actual t/n game

[cinder karma]

Well you have plenty of time to go around the clock again

[devout vault]

(Also, how in the world is this burger staying upright)

[tranquil grove]

alright, yeah, going through it now, I don't recall the LN getting into much detail about ||what Rei was like before the game/isekai started; her friend accuses her of having changed drastically, but that's about as specific as I remember||

though it's been years for me, so I could be forgetting

it's some neat detail addition at any rate, the manga has a few good spots of that

[devout vault]

||I remember in LN2 there being some stuff about pre-story Rae during the part she went back to her hometown, I think?||

[tranquil grove]

they might've mentioned a bit more during that part, yeah

[devout vault]

It's been a bit for me too, though it's not in my browser history from a quick search so not sure when

Probably at least 2

...wait, has the anime been out that long

[tranquil grove]

(also google has decided not to tell me about a tornado watch because it dislikes firefox's search args or something)

[devout vault]

(Apparently not)

I remembered it being before I moved to chicago, but that was end of 2023/beginning of 2024

And the anime aired october 2023

So it was right before moving I guess

[tranquil grove]

yeah, idk much about the anime yet, I started reading the manga fan t/n and then grabbed the novels when they were out

[devout vault]

Ah

Most of the anime I keep up with start with an anime dragging me in

And I have a hard time keeping up with them long term. (Like, I caught up to dandadan and spy x family last year, but I haven't checked either for several months at this point)

[tranquil grove]

yuri manga is the one thing I keep up with religiously, for better or worse

[devout vault]

If I would just make an account at mangadex or something like that I would probably end up keeping up with stuff better

[tranquil grove]

spy x family was one of the others I kept up with, though it's been a while
(also caught like 5 episodes of the anime with a friend, but fell into some other stuff)

there's an android reader that apparently works with mangadex and some other places, if that'd help, but I've never tried it myself

[devout vault]

The other fantasy yuri I watched that year was the Magical Revolution one. I ended up getting the LN before the anime finished 😅 Only ended up reading to where the anime finished though

I have iOS

The reason I think a mangadex account might help me keep up with stuff is because it works for webtoon

I follow... way too many webtoon series

[tranquil grove]

I have the Rev novel but haven't opened it yet I get the feeling the manga has more of an actiony twist to it than the source, at least in the art style

[devout vault]

(I've mentioned it here before, but I have over 100 updating with new episodes each week. And yes, I'm fast passing most of them)

[cinder karma]

Nexus thinks I'm a bot

I mean it's not wrong but

[devout vault]

Pretty sure over 90% of them are either fantasy or fantasy adjacent (like game-system-IRL, or full-dive-VR)

[cinder karma]

Also, I misplaced a headset last night and it makes me sad

[devout vault]

(There's very few of these that have a female protagonist and aren't romance focused. Not that I mind the romance focus, but it's almost always a straight couple, which doesn't interest me as much.)

[tranquil grove]

looking at screenshots, I guess the Rev anime has the same character reference/model style as the manga, probably?
I really enjoy the contrast between the manga and LN expressions, they're very >:P a lot of the time

[devout vault]

I love visual mediums in general, a big part of the reason being facial expressions

(Which is probably a big part of why I don't like live action stuff as much)

[tranquil grove]

it hasn't accosted me much outside of the monthly cookie deletion (how dare it make me need my phone auth thing)

[cinder karma]

Tbh every time Nexus logs me out I'm like

Welp. Guess I'm not checking thattttt

[tranquil grove]

my friend's very into isekai and fantasy stuff, so I hear a lot about some of those, but they come up less in my niche

though a bit more lately, since isekai seeps into everything

there was a neat VR/fulldive/? one recently but the manga wasn't great and web novels are, uh, very often google t/n

[cinder karma]

T/n?

Why not just learn Japanese

[tranquil grove]

I did take 2 years of it in university and study more myself, but I just don't socialize enough to retain real fluency

(I've translated some stuff too, but my skill level is "have a dictionary at all times" and I know like 10 kanji)

[devout vault]

I also like screenshotting webtoon panels out of context sometimes (though a lot of the times the context really doesn't make it more reasonable).

Just went through the ones I've posted recently to a group chat (atra might remember these):

• When talking about why various people were helping with something, one person's listed reason is "Promised a cat by the yakuza"
• "Did you bump your head somewhere? Why would you actually want to suffer?" (specifically regarding exercise and working out)
• "I couldn't afford to keep a pet back then, so I had to reject the cat distribution system." (preceded by a picture of an adorable cat)
• +2 the two I'm attaching here because a text summary doesn't do it justice

Sometimes done with anime too

[devout vault]

I wonder why would so many people these days would enjoy a fantasy about being whisked away to another world

[cinder karma]

Do graduate students look like that

[devout vault]

I certainly can't imagine it and never spend time daydreaming ("day" part questionable since it would be while waiting to fall asleep - hypothetically of course) about such a thing

[devout vault]

That was one I sent to elizabeth and asked that very question. Apparently not

[cinder karma]

@sand frost do your froshlings look like that

Smh. Lift more. (Jk)

[devout vault]

Visuals help me stay interested a lot, and the "problem" (not a problem just a preference) with manga is they don't tend to have color

[tranquil grove]

(also same, from:escammc has:image is a good 30% manga screenshots by volume on my personal server )

[cinder karma]

Not you, Casey. Graduate students in general

[tranquil grove]

yeah, color manga is pretty rare, and moreso before when people would never be able to scan them for the internet except grayscale

[devout vault]

Speaking of which I haven't checked the series that updated on webtoon yesterday yet. (They are out at like 9:00 PM my time, and like I mentioned, bad sleep schedule)

[tranquil grove]

ig webtoons are good for that since they all seem fully colored

[cinder karma]

9pm to 4am seems fine

[devout vault]

Well, I think the part Elizabeth was denying was the "demon lord bored on their throne" part...

[cinder karma]

I fell asleep to a swede narrating plane crashes again

[devout vault]

Indeed

[cinder karma]

And woke up to an hour long ad about addiction recovery services lol

[devout vault]

Not so good when you are fastpassing so many though

[red crest]

mentor pilot?

[cinder karma]

Oh come on a swede with dulcet tones narrating plane crashes is great

See I'm not the least online of us!!!!

[red crest]

you'll need stronger proof than that

[devout vault]

23 series updates from yesterday it seems. (A couple might be ones that I already fast passed though if they reacehd a season finale - but there's one I haven't seen in a bit so seems to be the start of a new season)

+2 or 3 I haven't been keeping up with

(I started but stopped at one point and need to catch up on them)

[tranquil grove]

a lot of my media consumption is via this search bookmark
makes it hard to count what I'm actually keeping up with, though

[devout vault]

I need to get some sort of backlog list thing between all the books, shows, manga/webcomic/etc., games and such I have

[tranquil grove]

(I'm not especially devoted to romantic stuff fwiw, just bad with male-protag romance and tags are difficult)

[devout vault]

Yeah I'm not super into romance but not really against it either.

[tranquil grove]

relatedly, I hope that site weathers the dmca stuff, they're a lot more convenient than the old places

[devout vault]

It's just that if it's not lesbians I'll need something like fantasty as well (and so pure realistic modern day stuff usually won't keep my interest)

I have one firefox window which is just a bunch tv shows I want to look into (mostly anime) which has a bit over 50 tabs, and then a bunch of the other stuff scattered about my main firefox window (the one with over 500 tabs)

There's some stuff I want to rewatch because it's been so long

[crystal wren]

Because this channel is basically #framework... oh no.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJjstBT0bpw

[sand frost]

lmao no

[devout vault]

I saw a framework video recommended in youtube recently too, let me see if I can find it again

[sand frost]

not lab work wear

[devout vault]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MAnyzWsupc

[devout vault]

Hmm, what if they just change outfits while in the lab.

Maybe if you catch them outside the lab sometime you'll see them in demon lord attire? Is that likely?

I need to reorganize my discord server folders soon (and leave a few), I've got 13 showing when I'm scrolled to the top which I basically never use

Still kinda dislike the way discord server folders work but in a very nitpicky way

[tranquil grove]

skimming these videos and getting anxious because I keep breaking gamepad internals lately

[devout vault]

I wonder if anyone has gotten stick drift with the switch two yet

[tranquil grove]

(although these being Not Round would probably help)

[tranquil grove]

I've kinda piled everything into "not using right now" folders, they're a bit clunky for anything active

[cinder karma]

Are capes not lab safe

[devout vault]

Yeah, I have several but they're vaguely topic sorted

But the thing is, for some reason I feel like they would be better like real file explorer folders rather than expanding.

Like, you click one, it replaces the whole server list with a "back" button as well as the stuff in the folder.

I feel like that is objectively worse, but for some reason I think it'd feel better for me

[tranquil grove]

I do have 3 piles for stardew, streamers, and neglected friend servers

[cinder karma]

I just want Gmail tagd

[devout vault]

Tagd?

[cinder karma]

Tags

[devout vault]

Ah

You also can't label folders

[tranquil grove]

yeah, text and icon controls would be nice
one of those things where I want to look into a modded client but not enough to do it

[devout vault]

..I'm just noticing the expanded folders changed coloring or something? Like, I scrolled by this thinking my folders disintegrated when really they were just expanded and I couldn't tell.

[tranquil grove]

it does look smaller or something, but my memory's bad with that stuff

(automatic mystery updates, another reason for an alt client)

[devout vault]

My current folders include:

• Game jam servers
• General game dev servers
• Various game modding servers
• Various game servers
• VR server (just a general VR server and a flatscreen-to-VR modding server in that one)
• D&D servers
• Tiny obsolete servers (like, one is for a group project from college)

Some stuff needs to go in existing folders, others need to go in new folders

There's some servers I'm on solely for announcement pings (like the Owl House server, on the off chance there's ever any official content again)

[devout vault]

I mainly meant the color difference for the part in the folder and the part not.

Like, if you look closely, you can see the background is a bit different color for the foldered ones, and in that screenshot you can see a slight difference between the top icon and the middle icon where one folder stopped and the new one started

[tranquil grove]

ah, I overlooked that, hard to tell if it's really that indistinct or just my eyes

light mode seems like it's probably better about it

[devout vault]

Yeah that is a bit better. I'm using one of the nitro themes

I was using chroma glow but I just saw blurple twilight so I think I'm using that now

The problem is even worse though 😛

Dark mode is reasonable

Blurple twilight... not so much...

[tranquil grove]

yeah, I guess the non-default themes are less careful about it

[devout vault]

Random tiny complaint: I've never thought about this before but why is facade pronounced that way. (Yes I know it's because english is a bunch of other stuff in trenchcoat, but I'm still complaining anyways)

(I'm watching a modded minecraft video that's 12 years old is what made me suddenly notice this)

[dusty pollen]

isn't it supposed to be spelled with a cedilla

[tranquil grove]

it's meant* to be written façade, yeah

[devout vault]

That sounds like a fancy term for something that's not used in english

I basically never see it written that way even if it's how it's suppose to be

[tranquil grove]

idk almost anything about diacritical marks or w/e that counts as, so I just assume there's good reason

[devout vault]

I can guarentee you old minecraft mods didn't since that character probably isn't in the default font from then

[cinder karma]

Now you tell me

I've just been using 0xFACADE as my test data for a week

[dusty pollen]

cedilla forces the letter c to be read like an s even if it's in front of a, o or u

[cinder karma]

Hi iro!!!!!

[devout vault]

Dear word makers: Have you considered just using an s

[dusty pollen]

it's french, but since facade is a french word we took the cedilla too

hi atra!!!

[cinder karma]

Blame the French

!blamepathos

[indigo mist]

To use this command, type !blamepathos.

[devout vault]

Pathos is canadian

[cinder karma]

He's close enough to the French

[tranquil grove]

C is superfluous to begin with, just use k or s

[devout vault]

Why is this not animated anymore

Or was that a different one

[red crest]

c is more aesthetically pleasing, id rather ditch the k

[tranquil grove]

true

[dusty pollen]

ditch the s

[cinder karma]

We can't ditch the k

[devout vault]

Counter argument: ch though ideally maybe we could just have a new letter for it

[tranquil grove]

K feels a lot less likely to be mistaken for another letter, though

[cinder karma]

K is the first letter in knitting

[red crest]

skill issue (/lh)

[cinder karma]

Smh

[dusty pollen]

it is entirely unnecessary in the word knitting

[cinder karma]

Back to listening to evolution talks and doing some wiring

[red crest]

kenitting

[dusty pollen]

we can just make it gnitting or wnitting

[cinder karma]

Gasp

No

I don't have a personality otherwise

[devout vault]

Relatedly, when I first learned about syllabries, I thought those made so much more sense than alphabets (at least in the context of english not knowing what it wants because of previously mentioned trenchcoat issue)

[cinder karma]

Why don't you learn Japanese

[devout vault]

ew

Not for japanese

[cinder karma]

Heyyyy

[devout vault]

Ew for me learning new language

[cinder karma]

I didn't suggest weightlifting

[devout vault]

Studying is just exercise but for the brain 😔

[dusty pollen]

I speak a language that uses the oldest alphabet currently in use, which is a fun fact

[cinder karma]

What about learning how to knit

[devout vault]

Hmm, arabic?

[cinder karma]

Hebrew

[dusty pollen]

nope, hebrew!

[devout vault]

That was my next guess but I wasn't sure which was older

I actually almost said hebrew first but corrected myself

[cinder karma]

I get to make tiny hat jokes at that one for two different reasons

[devout vault]

Oh, I was thinking of aramaic (which was pre-hebrew I think?)

("who knows what aramaic is???" can you tell I was raised christian)

Okay professor google tells me both languages arose around the same time maybe?

[dusty pollen]

aramaic and hebrew are like... kind of the same in most aspects hebrew uses the aramaic alphabet and I can read aramaic pretty decently

[devout vault]

This makes it sound like latin america spanish vs spain spanish

[dusty pollen]

kind of? it's weird haha

[devout vault]

Linguistics confuses me

But I'm an american so that's expected

[dusty pollen]

I speak all of two languages

three if you count Python Bullshit as a natural language

[devout vault]

My twin (the brother who is also the tea snob) loves learning languages, I honestly don't know how many he's started learning at this point

I would say "I know two if you count piglatin" but that takes a lot of effort for me to think through so even if it counts, it doesn't for "languages casey speaks"

[dusty pollen]

there's a hebrew version of pig latin called the B language that made it to Eurovision once

(and won!)

[devout vault]

The only time I've ever vaguely been interested in languages was me thinking how neat it'd be to make a custom language for a game (instead of having it be a different font or gibberish (or both in the case of some games, like minecraft's enchanting table thing which doesn't even relate to the corresponding enchantments))

I know nothing about eurovision except that I'm pretty sure it isn't related to eyesight

[devout vault]

(Also, while I still think this would be neat, I don't feel like pulling a tolkien)

[tranquil grove]

I like simple ciphers too much, so I never really considered constructed languages back in my game design journal days

my first stardew screenshot was just me parsing out the untranslated junimo note

[devout vault]

I'm suddenly getting flashbacks to a few notebooks with game notes

Shoutout to the water droplet platformer I never actually made

[tranquil grove]

I still have a little hand-sized one full of stuff about open world roguelikes with terrible scope creep

and probably some more of that written in text files on here, come to think of it

[devout vault]

I had an incredibly dumb "game" idea at one point. And not in the fun way.

I was thinking of like a game or something, whatever. But what if someone didn't like the setting? So it would've included an option for like 5 different settings or something like that. But what if someone didn't like that style of gameplay? So it would've included an option for like 5 different game genres or something (stacking with the setting option).

So yeah, the idea was basically X*Y entirely different games in the same "game". I assume it's obvious why I now consider this incredibly dumb

[devout vault]

I still have several of mine somewhere around here, too

I think

[tranquil grove]

(oh right, I did like the small con-lang in Blue Prince recently, though it's kinda late-game spoiler territory)

[devout vault]

In a box somewhere

[devout vault]

Also have a bunch of these, even excluding all the minecraft mod idea ones in the past few months

[marble jewel]

Making 1 game sounds challenging, but 25 sounds much easier 🙂

[devout vault]

Well, I suppose at that point you can just shift from quality to quantity, so maybe in some sense

[marble jewel]

WarioWare, what?

[devout vault]

<flashbacks to playing the gamecube one with my brothers>

[tranquil grove]

things like Spore always did make me like the abstract idea of "game that is many games", but then I could never imagine that coming out well

[devout vault]

Those were insane

[marble jewel]

Spore was awesome for it's time

[devout vault]

Like the turtle balancing one

Or the kinda board game one

[marble jewel]

It's still awesome now, but it was awesome then too

[devout vault]

Or the space shooter kinda one?

Mainly the turtle one though

[tranquil grove]

it was very fun, but also not what a lot of people were looking for in it, so there's a lot of nitpicking in retrospect

[marble jewel]

Spore probably had the problem of overpromising it's capabilities though

[devout vault]

I remember enjoying spore

[tranquil grove]

and did have a lot of scope issues that made the games feel flat in some ways

[devout vault]

I never saw the original marketing so I didn't have overexpectations

And, you know, being much younger

[marble jewel]

I think Spore's promises were comparable to No Man's Sky

At least relative to its time

[devout vault]

I remember buying the dlc through the ea app or something but my game copy wasn't through them and I couldn't get it to work and support was no help so I kinda just gave up and was sad

[tranquil grove]

right, NMS is the other one that came to mind I always thought about Spore while playing it

[marble jewel]

My problem with Spore is that every stage left me wanting just a bit more

[tranquil grove]

and wished there was more to do with a lot of the proc-gen than just look at it

[marble jewel]

Like I wanted to play the micro stage for longer

[tranquil grove]

yeah, the first stage felt the best to play for me, though I'd have probably burned out if it were any more involved

[tranquil grove]

oh right, EA's DRM and support were starting to become a known mess around then

iirc we had to try and contact them when the "X installs per copy" thing didn't recognize our PC correctly, etc

[marble jewel]

Speaking of games that were enjoyable despite falling short of their promises, I recently discovered kind of a spiritual successor to Black & White for VR, but I haven't downloaded it yet. Has anyone heard about Townsmen VR?

[tranquil grove]

haven't heard of it (no VR access), but that description sounds interesting

I was really into the parts of Black & White (1) where I could ignore the RTS/combat parts

[marble jewel]

Yeah, it's like the one type of game I've wanted ever since VR became a thing

When large touchscreens became a thing, my first thought was RTS would be great for that form factor

But God Games are totally made for VR

[tranquil grove]

sounds like they could work pretty well, yeah, depending on control accuracy and such

[marble jewel]

I mean the controls for Black & White literally simulated your hand with a mouse, so removing the mouse should come naturally

[tranquil grove]

...oh, right, I forgot about the gesture controls

really just picturing ways to control RTS without the micromanagement that mouse & keyboard end up getting into

[marble jewel]

Yeah, I was never a hardcore gamer, so I wouldn't expect touch to give you the APM of KBM

[tranquil grove]

(memories of the second game might be blending together, that one had the actual humans-as-military stuff)

[marble jewel]

But just commanding units by pointing at them seems intuitive at least

[tranquil grove]

makes sense, yeah

[marble jewel]

I never even played 2 so my B&W knowledge is all from the first game

[tranquil grove]

I spent a lot of time playing custom map minigames in warcraft, so I got exposed to a lot of hardcore RTS competitiveness and burned out on anything resembling it

I spent way more time in B&W 1, but people seem to remember 2 more fondly for being a little more cleaned up

[marble jewel]

I watched a lot of competitive Starcraft, but have never been anywhere near those levels of gaming

[tranquil grove]

but yeah, it had little human military bands to help your creature, and had more town-capturing mechanics etc

slightly less "be a god and have a huge pet and mess around" than the first

[marble jewel]

The pet thing would be a good VR concept

[devout vault]

I disappeared because the game journal/txt file comment made go look through my google drive and tally up them all.

This is just stuff I have txt files for, and a few things I thought of while going through it. There's definitely more I don't have here. (see later attachment)

...that was long

There, version that discord will collapse

(It took out my tabs at the beginning of lines, booo)

[devout vault]

<insert procedural world generation discussion from a day or two ago>

[devout vault]

<adds to wishlist>

[tranquil grove]

it took me several seconds to stop parsing "C#++--" down to just "C"

[devout vault]

😛

It's C# plus some stuff minus some stuff!

[tranquil grove]

(and I've already forgotten all about C and C++ these days)

[devout vault]

The other potential name was Cheddar (since there's literally already a language called Beef)

And seeing as I haven't even started on it, the name is very much in flux 😛

...I'm suddenly recalling some vague other ideas for VR stuff

[cinder karma]

One day

🦀

[devout vault]

There's over 25 unreleased mods in my mod repo

(A few of which are even done)

[cinder karma]

(One day )

[devout vault]

(And a few of which do practically nothing. Shout out to "ModJamMod" which does nothing but create an instance of Harmony and call PatchAll (no actual patches exist), and doesn't even have info on what is was going to be in the manifest.json)

[marble jewel]

Casey Mod Jam - contestants must get one of Casey's unreleased mods to a releasable state

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6424 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1384977210414202911)

[tranquil grove]

my only unreleased stuff is for FTM, i.e. a lot of half-finished data models and one half-finished tile query system

the latter's pretty fun to use tbh, looking forward to having all the other junk done

[devout vault]

There's more that never got merged into the monorepo ages ago it seems. I see three that were mentioned in the list above, but not sure there is a repo for since I may not have published them since they didn't get released. (Also another that that is also the case but I forgot to mention before)

[devout vault]

Difficulty scales from "fix this mod that was technically already finished, but during the 1.6 modding alpha" to "complete StardewVR (which also means completing Stardew3D)"

[cinder karma]

This seems on topic

[devout vault]

Hmm, yeah

Matt was the one who pushed it from "casey's vast backlog" to being on topic for stardew specifically, though

[cinder karma]

Why don't you release a mod from your backlog?

[devout vault]

I think there's only the one that is technically complete (and probably needs tweaks - the one that was finished during modding alpha)

And it's not a super exciting one, though could be nice for people who play many years on one save

[tranquil grove]

(relatedly, is this channel officially™ specific to programming, or just "programmers talk about whatever"? I'm not here enough)

[cinder karma]

Not all mods need to be big

[cinder karma]

I'm joking about it being off topic

[tranquil grove]

(or able to parse the description up top well)

[cinder karma]

Stardew is on topic

[marble jewel]

It's really 'programmers off-topic

[cinder karma]

Shoo

#making-mods-general

[devout vault]

The one that changes the capacity of fruit trees to be one higher each month it was fully grown (up to a max of 7), as well as makes more fruits grow each day after a certain amount of years (up to a max of 6 it seems)

[marble jewel]

I'm pretty sure this channel was made so that we don't derail other channel as much

[devout vault]

https://github.com/spacechase0/StardewValleyMods/tree/develop/FruitTreeCapacityGrowth

[cinder karma]

I would offer a 1:1 trade, something from my backlog to something from yours

[devout vault]

Yeah

[cinder karma]

But I don't have anything good enough to publish

[devout vault]

You know what the problem with publishing a mod is? You have to support it

(Well, "have to"... I haven't exactly done much of that lately...)

[cinder karma]

Noted

What about Firefox plugins

[marble jewel]

We accept various topics including Framework laptops, Knitting, food, and sometimes even programming

[devout vault]

OH, I forgot that on my list

The firefox plugin that can't be done with the current extension system

[tranquil grove]

just wanted to confirm the junimo won't need to make me stop rambling about manga or w/e

[devout vault]

And none of the forks supporting XUL addons also support modern extensions

• there is no documentation anywhere for getting that sort of thing done anymore, so it was too painful for me to work on (with my ADHD as it is)

For those who have forgotten, the idea was tree style tabs but for the horizontal tab bar instead of the vertical one in the side pane

Still would like the stardew 3d/vr mod but alas, 3d assets are a lot of work

Like, it would be possible to work around items/bigcraftables for example with billboards. And to some extent NPCs, though it'd look weird sometimes since there's not 4 direction variations for the non-standing/walking sprites.

But the tiles? Misery

[cinder karma]

Today sounds like a good day to do a lot of work

Or release a fruit tree mod

[devout vault]

I don't want to release a non-joke mod

People might think I'm active again 😛

[cinder karma]

Release it under a different name

[devout vault]

It's already in my github repo 😛

[cinder karma]

Smh

What else is in your backlog

[devout vault]

Well most of my things-to-make backlog I showed above

Basically everything I haven't forgotten (+a couple things I remembered since, like the roguelike SDV mod, or the stardew/minecraft bridge mod)

The fiction backlog has not been defined/centralized 😛

[cinder karma]

I have at least one if not two short stories in my backlog

Also many pairs of socks

I'm going to murder this bit of software btw

[fleet wren]

I feel like this is entering "sell your soul" level to create
but gosh I wish

[cinder karma]

One hour later I have managed to hand fix the net list again

[fleet wren]

the only person currently who has the skill level/dedication required to theoretically make a Firefox fork that supports both XUL and WebExtensions is probably the Pale Moon dev, but that's never happening lol

[devout vault]

If I didn't know better I'd think you're modding from the words "net list"

[devout vault]

Yeah, it's like all the forks which do XUL addons seem to believe that literally nothing since that era has any value or something, which seems silly. (I'm probably extrapolating a bit too far with that assumption though)

[fleet wren]

I'd say you're on the mark with that assumption in my very biased opinion

[cinder karma]

So traumatized from all stardew net code that any "net" is stardew

[devout vault]

If I didn't know better I'd say "well how about I just throw together my own browser like I'd do many other things, it can't be that hard".

But given that modern browsers are basically OS-level complexity, that doesn't sound like a good plan

[fleet wren]

there are exactly two promising independent browser engines in development (Flow and Ladybird), both backed by companies/funding
and IIRC they don't even have Google Docs running yet I think

[devout vault]

Yeah I've heard there were one or two new ones in development but I wouldn't expect results any time soon

Unrelated but this looks kinda fun: https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Paper-TapePunch-Card-Maker-and-Reader/

...brb making a punchcard minecraft mod

[lethal walrus]

Last I checked ladybird had YouTube running iirc

[wet tendon]

anti servo propaganda

(😭 i know)

[safe dragon]

I've been following the ladybird progress for quite a while

[cinder karma]

How

[indigo mist]

@cinder karma You leveled up to Local Legend. That's level 2000! You really have been talking a lot, haven't you? Thanks for being a part of this community. Here's a pretty gradient color as a token of our appreciation.

[lethal walrus]

what a level up

[cinder karma]

Did you get that color

Crumble

[safe dragon]

I build it myself every once in a while but it's definitely completely unusable in its current state

[dusty pollen]

browsing is easy. you start by using regex to parse the html—

[safe dragon]

#bulletin-board

[lethal walrus]

and then you use a for loop to get the css

[devout vault]

I just saw that and was about to make a snarky comment about your fancy name

[dusty pollen]

congrats on top ten crumble

[safe dragon]

wrong one

[fleet wren]

I thought Servo was a homegrown homunculi whose purpose of existence is to provide spare organs for Gecko

[safe dragon]

this is level 2000

I have not been in the top 100 monthly in like a year

let alone top 10 weekly

[cinder karma]

I'm stealing your dutch

[devout vault]

My discord is so old I can only see the gradient in the member bar though, not here in chat

[dusty pollen]

oh, fanciness is level 2000, and other fancy thing is top ten?

[cinder karma]

Why am I orange

[devout vault]

I'm only slightly below level 1300 😔

[safe dragon]

ur a modder soz

[cinder karma]

Anyways

I'm going to hope that knitters get server tags soon

What the hell was that level up message

"How"

[lethal walrus]

it was hoe

[devout vault]

If I was level 2000 I would relinquish my cheeto

[cinder karma]

Oh my god

[devout vault]

...Not that it matters with my other role

[cinder karma]

That's beautiful

[wet tendon]

it is 😭

[fleet wren]

is gradient colors a new discord thing now hmm

[lethal walrus]

Newish

[devout vault]

Actually clicking on my name it looks like I have a gradient?

[lethal walrus]

Been rolling out for a while

[rain apex]

Wow fancy roles what

[fleet wren]

cheeto gradient when

[devout vault]

Oooo, I don't see that on mine because of previously mentioned old discord.

Still prefer the level 2000 one because it has blue though

[safe dragon]

wow I have a gradient

[cinder karma]

Smh

[fleet wren]

from cheesy orange to flaming hot red

[safe dragon]

this reminds me of the minecraft name color plugins

[rain apex]

No it should be from puffer yellow to chick orange

[safe dragon]

pretty sure my username with this gradient now violates several accessibility standards

[crystal wren]

My mould is growing new mould.

[dusty pollen]

I’ll be honest this might be pretty bad for readability

[wet tendon]

servo is what happens when someone goes "what if we could render webpages on multiple threads at once" and then they learn why people don't do that but keep going anyways because they don't understand that "fearless concurrency" is not "easy concurrency"

[dusty pollen]

I thought servos were little motor things

[devout vault]

This jsut looks like a dark green for me 😅

[fleet wren]

hmm apparently mozilla gave servo away and now it's continuing as its own thing

[wet tendon]

correct usage of rust eliminates data races and the corresponding memory corruption but it does not make concurrency easy. nothing can make concurrency easy

[wet tendon]

yup

[devout vault]

I guess the bots don't deserve a fancy role color, huh

[lethal walrus]

the bots are already fancy enough

[devout vault]

"they learn why people don't do that but keep going anyways" is like at least a quarter of my stardew mods

[fleet wren]

ooh development is active
it got support for animated gifs this week

[wet tendon]

its an experimental browser renderer written entirely in rust, initially developed by mozilla and a huge part of the reason rust exists at all. it can mostly render mediawiki. its thing is that it's concurrent unlike every other browser engine

[fleet wren]

which is a long way away from, y'know, running google docs aka the final boss every fledgling browser engine must defeat but still

[dusty pollen]

I was making a joke but ngl I don’t see how much a browser benefits from concurrency

[wet tendon]

i wonder if servo is using rustybuzz 😆

[cinder karma]

Smh

Microsoft word

[dusty pollen]

is that the browser equivalent of Can It Run Doom

[devout vault]

(Exhibit A: My multiplayer mod)

[cinder karma]

I like your colors

[devout vault]

(Also I looked at the first mention of the multiplayer mod on this server and somebody called me dumb apparently 😅 )

[cinder karma]

Smh

If I'm orange why can't I be Dutch

[wet tendon]

1. if used in the same way chromium is used for electron, it would provide great performance increases for desktop apps and the like
2. i think they're hoping to use stuff like rust-gpu to eventually port a huge portion of it to running as shaders on the gpu

[lethal walrus]

multiplayer?? In my cozy farming game?? Preposterous!!

[safe dragon]

how much of tech is the result of hubris

[fleet wren]

you can say systemd it's fine

[devout vault]

Nah they just say "He's dumb and if it's the person the developer mentioned before they also have no experience with this sort of thing"

[dusty pollen]

I don’t want my browser to ever be running shaders of any kind ngl and would prefer that everything stopped being used like electron

[devout vault]

(I was not in fact the person CA mentioned, and I did infact have some networking experience)

[cursive sigil]

I'm obsessed with your gradient thingy

[dusty pollen]

people are wild

[devout vault]

Browsers usings shaders sounds incredibly cursed

[safe dragon]

god they won't stop till they have a replacement for any tooling that exists

[devout vault]

Brb making a browser extension that adds raytracing

[wet tendon]

(rustybuzz is a direct source code port of harfbuzz from c++ to rust. maintainence couldn't keep up with the huge amount of changes coming in and its now deprecated, but a ton of existing rust projects still rely on it 😨)

[lethal walrus]

writing multiplayer into a game without is is incredibly impressive

[devout vault]

Haven't you always wanted to use reddit in RTX?

[dusty pollen]

casey

if I tell you I’ve actually done that

what would you say

[devout vault]

Technically the game did have some multiplayer stuff - like, that's the only way I was able to get farmers rendering right, since we didn't have Harmony at the time. But yeah

[cursive sigil]

[dusty pollen]

it was for an assignment for uni!

we had to!

[lethal walrus]

oh
it is still extremely impressive

[wet tendon]

its fiiiiiine

[dusty pollen]

webgl is a hell of a library

[cursive sigil]

I doubt the professor told you "hey why don't you make a browser extension that adds rtx"

[devout vault]

I feel like a good chunk of SDV modding has been spurred on by my refusal to abide by the game's limitations (or my sanity)

Most recent prime example being DGA's crazy item ID workaround leading to 1.6 string item IDs

[wet tendon]

you say things such as "just because every part of the process individually should work doesnt mean these things were designed to work this way" and to that i say "ok but what if it works fine"

[dusty pollen]

joke’s on you, she gave us the boilerplate webgl code

so she literally did graphics was fun, I kinda miss it ngl

[cursive sigil]

Fine, my apologies

[devout vault]

You know how the biblical word meaning for when "fear" is used encompasses more than just fear?

That

[wet tendon]

why didn't yall just use hashed string ids in 1.5

[tranquil grove]

SDV's endless pile of Net classes really makes me appreciate that "add multiplayer" is a ridiculous request for existing games
(and there are always more) (today's new one to me is NetNullableEnum<T>)

[dusty pollen]

“awe” but in the negative sense?

[devout vault]

That makes it even more cursed

[dusty pollen]

hey, at least that class didn’t make me use scala again

[devout vault]

Yeah, I had to monitor every game object for changes (with no hooks or callbacks, no net events - just checking for state changes each frame by comparing to past values). Very exciting

[dusty pollen]

I’m scared of the fact that I’ve grown to like scala. it seems like stockholm syndrome

[devout vault]

@dusty pollen Haven't you ever heard "pics or it didn't happen"?

[devout vault]

Yeah, and that's with the game kinda having had some MP in early versions but got put on the wayside to prioritize releasing.

Now, also think about the crazy stuff the game does for local multiplayer (every modder's favorite thing to pretend doesn't exist).

Fun fact, I wrote the abomination of an implementation for the state holder object generation

[lethal walrus]

oh no this reminds me I was going to look into crossplay
I am now very scared of this idea

[devout vault]

That's what DGA did. Pathos didn't like that and talked to them about extending to 64 bit IDs and it led to string IDs.

[devout vault]

Fear, awe, respect, unable to fully comprehend, etc.

It's not strictly negative, pretty sure the christian depiction of god doesn't want people literally fearing him and nothing else

[devout vault]

You mean for SDV consoles <-> PC? I think that gets tricky because I don't know if the mod data dictionaries exist there (which are netfields if I remember right)

[lethal walrus]

I've seen references to moddata iirc

but yes console (specifically switch since I have a modded one) to pc

easiest to force the Switch into unencrypted traffic mode/decrypt it than an xbox

[devout vault]

You have a modded switch? I never would have guessed from your username + having seen youa round for a while! (/s)

[lethal walrus]

I do, it's surprising!

[tranquil grove]

(yeah, public class ModDataDictionary : NetStringDictionary<string, NetString> fwiw)

[devout vault]

@ junimos - why do not only the bots, but also jade not have gradient roles

[marble jewel]

Fancy

[fleet wren]

bots dont have rights obviously

jade deserves it though yeh

[hardy jewel]

the bots don't have feelings, they'll be okay

jade was going to make her own

[cinder karma]

I am not going to lie

I legitimately want the gradient more than the orange

Smh

[devout vault]

Do you know the context? Because I seem to recall mod data fields existing (and being used like added to netfields) being wrapped around an #if controlled by the target platform

[cinder karma]

If you're gonna make me orange at least make me dutch

[safe dragon]

becoming dutch requires some legal procedures

[marble jewel]

Yeah, I'll probably reach a gradient level role in another 5 years

[devout vault]

You're really banking on the AI uprising never happening, huh

[marble jewel]

Unless I get way more chatty

[lethal walrus]

method/field names iirc

[safe dragon]

aquo doesn't know how to program an AI we're good

[devout vault]

<insert joke about that dumb roko's basilisk thing>

[fleet wren]

AI uprising vs my bottle of water who wins

[cinder karma]

Like what

Isn't orange your national color

[wet tendon]

ah yea makes sense

[cinder karma]

Or have I confused you for the Danish again

[devout vault]

I understand and would agree.

But you know, since you're not modding, you wouldn't lose anything by asking to have your modding roles removed...

[wet tendon]

tbf 32-bit hashes suck pathos is right

[sand frost]

possible except that I don't have grad students, just undergrads!

[safe dragon]

orange is our national color you're correct

[devout vault]

smh

[hardy jewel]

I mean... we could remove your dusting if you wish?

[crystal wren]

ZOE NO.

That's one step too close to real retirement!

[cinder karma]

Please?

[marble jewel]

What color comes before cheeto?

[cinder karma]

Thank you!

[safe dragon]

don't let them retire

[sand frost]

we can be gradient?

[hardy jewel]

aaaaaa

who do I listen to

[sand frost]

i want to be gradient

[marble jewel]

You need 1000 2000 levels

[devout vault]

You're not level 2000, you don't have the role

[tranquil grove]

(slap a gradient on the cheetos quick, before we rebel)

[sand frost]

awwww

[safe dragon]

all the modders decide to quit modding for the gradient

[sand frost]

I'm level 1819 so I'm close

[hardy jewel]

sorry alan

@cinder karma you're a gradient now!

[crystal wren]

You did the right thing.

[safe dragon]

damn gratz on your retirement

[devout vault]

(officially is there twice intentionally)

[cinder karma]

Yayyyy

[lethal walrus]

That was quick to make

[devout vault]

I used imgflip this time

[fleet wren]

does that mean pathos has to revoke your access to the repo now

[lethal walrus]

oh

[crystal wren]

Technically yes!

[tranquil grove]

I'm pretty sure a few people on that switched colors a while back

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #6425 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1384997278586245221)

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #6426 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1384997361331474534)

[marble jewel]

Are there other permissions tied to the mod author role, like promoting and threads?

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #6427 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1384997400195633335)

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #6428 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1384997520857497651)

New quote added by kittycatcasey as #6429 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1384997592609460244)

[safe dragon]

wtf

[cinder karma]

Yeah, but it's not like I need those either

[devout vault]

I haven't quoted things in a while

[cinder karma]

Lol

[devout vault]

Had to get it out of my system

[devout vault]

Defining commands too I think

[marble jewel]

ngl, that gradient looks pretty darn good. If I was at the required level, I might abandon modding just to obtain it.

[devout vault]

I certainly would since I'm not even modding lately

[hardy jewel]

(If you want your cheeto back within 2 months feel free to message bouncer)

[supple ether]

That's a valid argument.

I would argue that either constraining the type or using default instead of an explicit null is the better way to do it, though, as it gives you more compile-time guarantees.

[devout vault]

(But it wouldn't work since I have the 1.6 dev role, but if I didn't)

[fleet wren]

also access to the top sekrit Support Discussion thread

[sand frost]

I don't see the gradient

[devout vault]

Is that the retention period for cheeto dust, like a pawn shop? After that point you'll repurpose the dust for another user?

[cinder karma]

(Thank you!!!!)

[tranquil grove]

"hey can a junimo remove me from the credits"

[marble jewel]

Alright, once I reach level 2000, I'm going to official abandon all of my mods

[devout vault]

I don't either since my client is really out of date, but it shows in the web version

It also shows in the member list sidebar for me

[wet tendon]

using default is completely broken, trygetvalue shouldn't return 0 if there's no int??

[hardy jewel]

if you don't see any gradients you'll need to restart your discord or update it if that still doesn't work

[sand frost]

Hmm, maybe I need to update yeah

[supple ether]

Whoah that's awesome

[lethal walrus]

if me, aquo and blueberry all convene can we campaign for a gradient of our own

[devout vault]

I think Pathos is the only junimo who has that power 😛

[crystal wren]

It had not, in fact, calmed down enough apparently.

[hardy jewel]

don't give them ideas pillow what the heck

[safe dragon]

that's gonna cascade to every role having a gradient

[devout vault]

Maybe jade but she's technically not a junimo anymore

[supple ether]

What's the local legend role? I don't remember seeing that before

[lethal walrus]

Top 10 chatters of week

[safe dragon]

no

[lethal walrus]

#bulletin-board

[safe dragon]

local legend is level 2000

[hardy jewel]

ol' slitherlegs is the top 10 one

[lethal walrus]

OH LOCAL LEGEND
mb sorry

[lethal walrus]

but what if I want to give them ideas

[safe dragon]

I can promise you you will never see me with ol' slitherlegs

[devout vault]

Nah, just leave it for modding roles, to encourage more people to make things for the community.

And for the artisan role too

Sudden realization: LGBT-focused servers are gonna have a lot of fun with role gradients aren't they

[cinder karma]

Yeah it's unfortunate

[hardy jewel]

unfortunately you can only choose 2 colour options for the gradients

[tranquil grove]

might be kinda tricky if they're just 2-color, yeah

[supple ether]

Level 2000 I'll be old and gray

[crystal wren]

Not really, sadly. You can only pick two colours.

[supple ether]

That is what the bool return value is for?

[marble jewel]

I need to break my mods and then offer support exclusively in the support channel to farm points

[devout vault]

The ol slitherlegs looks like it has more, weird

[hardy jewel]

yeah that one's a seperate option! holographic

[crystal wren]

That's a special premade one.

[hardy jewel]

far right on the image I sent

[crystal wren]

No control over that!

[supple ether]

To be clear I don't think you should ever use the presence of a null value to determine success or failure

[devout vault]

Wow, why does the premade one get special powers

[supple ether]

It's unclear and confusing

[wet tendon]

girllllll 😭 this whole discussion was about replacing the out parameter + bool with a nullable return type, and how that wouldn't work because nullable types suck

[devout vault]

Discord designed it this way to specifically slight the LGBT community, clearly. (Doubly so since it's pride month)

[supple ether]

I don't think it should be replaced! I think out is way clearer

[wet tendon]

i'd much rather they add a maybe type and use that

[supple ether]

Unless you had an option type like rust

[wet tendon]

yea

nullability is almost that

[supple ether]

But I don't think you should use nullable values as an option type

That's not what it's for

[wet tendon]

i mean you can't

[supple ether]

I mean you can't and they shouldn't add it

[wet tendon]

tbf i think c#'s requirement that every type ever has a default value and is zero-initializable is one of the biggest flaws in the language

[devout vault]

<flashbacks to using C++ boost tribool (https://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_86_0/doc/html/tribool.html)>

[cinder karma]

The lack of union types is my current sorrow

[safe dragon]

discriminated unions were planned for .NET 10 but I feel like they ain't making it

[devout vault]

...does it?

You don't have to have a default constructor

[wet tendon]

im talking Maybe<T> not just Maybe<bool>

[supple ether]

I mean the memory needs to be initialized somehow, otherwise you could have garbage data in there

[cinder karma]

Toooo be fair you can avoid the init

[devout vault]

Hey, my flashback triggers aren't determined by your intentions, just the whims of my mind 😛

[cinder karma]

Hi.

[wet tendon]

structs are all zero-initializabke and classes are all nullable

[cinder karma]

Let me introduce you to the magic

[devout vault]

I really thought there was an annotation for the zero thing

[cinder karma]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.runtime.compilerservices.unsafe.skipinit?view=net-9.0

[devout vault]

And like, you kinda can't get around that for reference types

[cinder karma]

It breaks equality though if your struct needs padding

[supple ether]

That's cursed

[wet tendon]

you could just not let people create instances of a type without calling a constructor, but that would require significant changes to various features of the language (inheritance, for example)

[devout vault]

I'm pretty sure there are uses for it, mainly for high performance code

However

Shoutout to unreal (an old version, not sure about current) not caring about zero initialization for that reason, and me tracking down a bug for multiple days for that very reason

[safe dragon]

... and it would break most of the C# ecosystem as a bonus

[cinder karma]

Can I show you something more cursed

https://github.com/atravita-mods/StardewMods/blob/8b628860030e16b6a143c70f9742844aad06685b/RefreshedRandom/Framework/PRNG/SeededXoshiroFactory.cs#L60

[wet tendon]

(safe) rust completely prevents you from accessing uninitialized data and does not have any requirement that types be zeroable or even have default values

[safe dragon]

it has a lot of other requirements to do that though

[wet tendon]

ofc. any significant flaw in a programming language breaks its ecosystem. otherwise it would be fixable

[devout vault]

I don't see how inheritance (well, specifically polymorphism I guess) could work without it being uninitialized to some extent since the size of the referenced object isn't fixed

[safe dragon]

not exactly the kind of thing you can retroactively introduce into a language that's for sure

[supple ether]

Because rust has compile-time lifetime management and no reflection.

[safe dragon]

it might get compile time reflection at some point but it's just libraries for now

[devout vault]

I'm really not sure I consider this a flaw but I also don't fully understand your point / use cases so it's not really fair for me to say for sure

[cinder karma]

I mean. Speeeed

[devout vault]

Also, I'm the resident rust hater, so...

[safe dragon]

I feel like I had a conversation with someone about this exact topic months ago here

[devout vault]

Man your name being purple is so cursed 😭 (old discord client so only rarely seeing the gradient)

[wet tendon]

neither of those things are a requirement for requiring initialization; there are plenty of languages out there that have reflection and no lifetime management and don't require types to be zeroable. it's even possible to implement runtime reflection in rust (e.g. bevy does this)

[cinder karma]

Why is it? I haven't made a mod in two years

[safe dragon]

bevy implements compile time reflection not runtime

[wet tendon]

what?

[cinder karma]

Also can I point out c# lets you have uninitiated memory

I literally use it in the above github link

[devout vault]

Not because of the modding, but because I don't like change and your name is no longer the color it was before

[wet tendon]

i think perhaps our definitions of compile-time and runtime reflection are different

[sand frost]

I feel like you’ve made small mods that “don’t count” in the last 2 years

[devout vault]

It'd be the same if Pathos stepped down from being a junimo

[sand frost]

But who am I to cast stones about not modding

[wet tendon]

c# could absolutely require initialization of types if only constructors/inheritance worked differently than they do today

[marble jewel]

C# could absolutely be not-C# if only C# wasn't C# /lh

[devout vault]

I've made two mods that don't count this year despite not modding since like November. (Autocorrect Valley, that random error generator for pathoscat.mp4)

[wet tendon]

i posit that requiring all types to be zeroable and zero-initializing everything is barely better than having garbage data everywhere; you just get nres instead of undefined behavior

[hardy jewel]

If pathos stepped down he would be pink

[devout vault]

I don't understand the issue very well still but I still feel like it's odd to call it an outright flaw.

[wet tendon]

and god i wish it were

[safe dragon]

my point is that it's achieved by a procedural macro essentially generating code that lets you act upon it like there's reflection. You cannot do this at runtime with some random type you're given that wasn't marked as such when the application compiled

[wet tendon]

nre nre nre nre nre

[supple ether]

Aaanyways, tryget is convenient and readable, and also not the only use for ref/out parameters

[devout vault]

I don't see how this would help nres

[safe dragon]

rust "reflection" is essentially more a source generator than runtime reflection

[cinder karma]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.runtime.serialization.formatterservices.getuninitializedobject?view=net-9.0

It exists

[wet tendon]

i think (in Rust Land) compile-time reflection refers to operating on types with code at compile type -- bevy's reflection is runtime reflection because the code that uses it runs at runtime

[devout vault]

Like, the reason I say it doesn't feel like a flaw is because it feels (with my limited understanding) more like a simple design choice? And not every language has to fit every paradigm.

Like, Rust and C# fit two wildly different use cases

[wet tendon]

if types didnt have to be zeroable there would be no such thing as null

null reference exceptions happen because something you thought was initialized turned out to not be initialized. the language could statically prevent that from ever happening

[cinder karma]

I don't see how that follows

[devout vault]

I feel like just in name? It would just be replaced by other issues

[wet tendon]

no, it wouldn't?

i say this from experience with languages that don't have nres

[devout vault]

...doesn't it literally already do this with nullable enabled and not using ! (which I never use nullable, but anyways)

I'm not saying it'd have a different label but still be null

I'm saying there would be other issues happening instead

[wet tendon]

you can trick nullable pretty easily btw

[devout vault]

I'm aware

But saying "null doesn't exist" is just repainting the problem

Ultimately null is just an invalid reference. Any magic number bad handle could do it

A bit different but similar to how using 1 for starting array index won't fix off by one errors

[wet tendon]

the idea that types can be silently invalid is the problem here. a language that forces you to handle situations where a type could be invalid solves this problem

[safe dragon]

I'd have preferred Option over the nullability ? thing but at least for me I have not had a null reference exception even once in any project using it

[wet tendon]

but yes, nullable absolutely helps, it's just not always a saving grace. for example, it doesn't work great for modding

[devout vault]

Hmm. I guess it goes back to me feeling like that's not an outright flaw but a unfortunate consequence of a design choice that isn't inherently bad.

Forcing you to code in that way would be a very different language, which is fine, but more of a different use case situation (in my understanding at least)

And there's tons of invalid states that aren't null.

What comes to my mind is how minecraft modding (well, minecraft iself, but I was doing modding) introduced the air block at one point and used that in place of null a lot. Sure, no invalid reference exceptions, but plenty of other problems

[wet tendon]

"every type ever might just be secretly invalid, and if you use it for certain things itll cause an error" is such a horrible design decision because it pushes errors around in code so much that it becomes really difficult to track down their actual cause (especially when many of them would've otherwise been compiler errors). nullable helps, but there are many situations it can't account for

[devout vault]

I guess I kinda get where you might be coming from, but still disagree that forcing the opposite is good.

Like, presumably there's a reason the main thing I hear about Rust is complaints about the borrow checker

[wet tendon]

sentinel values are a bad idea in general, but (in my experience) languages that are designed around not having them completely avoid this problem

[thin estuary]

If everything you write and use is done with nullability enabled, then you’re pretty much all good

[devout vault]

Sentinel values being a bad idea in general I can't say I agree with either

[thin estuary]

Until you start abusing null!

[wet tendon]

if java were friendlier to the idea of requiring explicit initialization of types, it wouldn't encourage minecraft developers to use sentinel values

[wet tendon]

ok now ur just messing with me girlllllll sentinel values suck for actual programming the only thing they're good for is packing data efficiently

[supple ether]

The c# nullable system makes sense from a simplistic OOP standpoint, which is kinda what c# was made for.

Classes are things, and you either have an object or have no object

Structs and other value types are meant to represent single values. The concept of a "null" number makes zero sense.

In light of that, though, strings being nullable goes against the rest of the language design and is just kinda weird

Keep in mind that compile-time nullability was tacked on later and wasn't part of the initial design

[devout vault]

I guess part of my problem with it is, while I'm only skeptical of it actually being better inherently, I feel like it very likely isn't as good for real world use cases (universally).

Like, maybe in a universe where you can invent programming from scratch or something. But there's too much outside the scope of a programming language that relies on it (even ignoring memory, there's stuff like web apis). Which goes back to the "different use cases" thing

[devout vault]

I was completely serious, sorry 😛

You'll hate me for this but I've literally used null in that way. Like int? finalResult; sort of thing

Admittedly that's a lazy sort of thing and an Option<> type thing would be better

[wet tendon]

Classes are things, and you either have an object or have no object
okay so then why can't i just have an object. why can't i for sure have an object. why is the overwhelmingly common default behavior to just maybe have an object

[cinder karma]

Pity I can just skip initialization

Tbh as a hardware person I like sentinel values

[devout vault]

How would you represent an empty inventory slot without an empty reference or other sentinel value

[wet tendon]

that's pretty much fine because it's explicit and intended, that's basically just Maybe<int>

[supple ether]

Because java and c++ did it that way too and people were familiar with it

[wet tendon]

thats my point

it's a design flaw that keeps sticking around because people get attached to it

im not gonna pretend like it has benefits

it doesn't

[supple ether]

if you wanna use rust, use rust. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wet tendon]

im complaining about c# because that's what i have to use for modding

you can't write a transpiler in rust

not for realsies

[supple ether]

You probably could if you wanted to make native bindings for harmony

[devout vault]

coughs in the rust to cil thing I've seen

[cinder karma]

(Also. Memory can be expensive.)

[marble jewel]

Wasn't there someone here who found out how to make SDV mods in F#?

[cinder karma]

Most of my optimization in mod land was being very careful on how I let memory be allocated

[marble jewel]

TehPer I think it was, whatever happened to them

[safe dragon]

that doesn't sound particularly difficult from an outside perspective

[supple ether]

F# compiled to cil so I don't see why you couldn't just plug-and-play

[wet tendon]

and even if you could, the game doesn't do nullable annotations anyways so i'd still have to deal with nres sometimes because it's the system that's the problem, not my code

[wet tendon]

unfortunately rustc-codegen-clr sucks ass

[tranquil grove]

(TehPers never quite un-retired after 1.5 broke their stuff, afaik)

[marble jewel]

I recall there being some complications, maybe related to how SMAPI loads mods, but it was a while ago

I think the only solution to this discussion is that Microsoft has to make an R# Rust clone

[devout vault]

Projects like that generally take a while to get to be otherwise when only one person is working on it

[devout vault]

That sounds about right - there's probably stuff in SMAPI issues about it

[devout vault]

Or just adopt my totally reasonable language idea I talked about before (which would work very strangely to work around running in the standard runtime and being stuck with the CLR)

[safe dragon]

R# not to be confused with R which is nothing like it

[marble jewel]

Isn't C#'s weird uncle Visual J++

[wet tendon]

i meannnnnn if microsoft made an llvm clr backend....

[cinder karma]

Isn't there one

Stardew mobile is aot llvm

[marble jewel]

Oh there even was a Visual J Sharp

Old Microsoft would've made a Visual R++ that was almost Rust, but not quite

[safe dragon]

yeah I thought aot llvm was a thing

[devout vault]

I think Esper meant llvm -> into the CLR, not CLR -> into assembly through AOT