programmers-off-topic

[crystal wren]

Well...

[pliant snow]

because it's a fate-defying time travel game

[safe dragon]

yup

[crystal wren]

Tides of Time goes batshit.

[devout vault]

...what. This isn't a silly dolphin sandbox game?

[crystal wren]

Nope!

[safe dragon]

it's not that funky flash game where you build up speed and fly into space

[cinder karma]

What's ecco

[pliant snow]

what's ecco they ask

[cinder karma]

(You don't have to tell me)

[worn remnant]

i am witnessing someone learning about ecco tides of time in real time

[devout vault]

I mean, an aquatic life sandbox game could still be popular. Path of Titans is decently popular after all

[cinder karma]

Lol, my under a rock is getting worse

[pliant snow]

ecco the dolphin is a hit 1993 game for the Sega genesis

[pliant snow]

it is my one true love in this world

[devout vault]

...how can a dolphin be macho looking

Do I even want to know

[cinder karma]

There, currently, is not a single book series I'm excited for

[crystal wren]

If you don't care about spoilers and want to see just how ridiculous it gets: https://youtu.be/o9GTuLBfzb8?t=5072 (timed link for a level)

[cinder karma]

And this is Bad Actually

[safe dragon]

https://www.crazygames.com/game/dolphin-olympics

this was my childhood dolphin game

[cinder karma]

Remind me in 60 hours to watch this

[heavy dagger]

hey peebrain, you teleport? (#6674099) (60h | <t:1746938453>)

[cinder karma]

Thnak you!

[worn remnant]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmericanKirbyIsHardcore

[devout vault]

Wikipedia also lists a "Defender of the Future" ecco game, and also a (cancelled) "Sentinels of the Universe" game. W h a t

[pliant snow]

this one isnt even as bad as the one in the first game

[devout vault]

I'm aware of the kirby stuff (as you might expect given... well, me)

But a dolphin???

Did they just change the eyebrows and mouth for Ecco as well

[crystal wren]

I think you're thinking of what I'm thinking of...

[pliant snow]

it's a 5 minute long autoscroller where you try to avoid getting crushed in walls

[crystal wren]

Which is surprisingly not terrible, because the swimming dolphin controls are actually surprisingly... good I'd say?

[devout vault]

The page links an "Americans Hate Tingle" trope.

...Am I not an american?

[safe dragon]

yup

[devout vault]

(Also immediately closing the tab before being sucked into the tvtropes rabbithole)

[safe dragon]

it's been many many years since I last went down a tvtropes rabbit hole

[worn remnant]

please visit your nearest Amazon warehouse for reeducation. americans are required to hate tingle

[devout vault]

It's been like a month or two for me. Before that it had been a while

[devout vault]

I'm sure the cur- <gets banned before continuing that train of thought>

[cinder karma]

Who's tingle

[safe dragon]

a legend of zelda character

[devout vault]

This seems a bit out there but not that crazy. (At least until I scrubbed ahead and saw the boss fight, which not only is a little crazy but also doesn't look fun to play)

Was still expecting a 3d game at least, but that might be my bias from having thought it was dreamcast + vague recollections of some game on the wii which my older brother liked that was deep sea diving related

[pliant snow]

the dreamcast one was 3D

[devout vault]

https://tenor.com/view/tingle-elf-gif-7431169

Also I saw an amazing tingle quote in the gif searcher

https://tenor.com/view/zelda-grow-up-link-act-my-age-tingle-gif-11546895

[cinder karma]

Tbh I think the fact that I live under a rock has gotten...worse lately

[devout vault]

Gee I wonder why

[cinder karma]

It's not that I dint recognize cultural references

It's that I no longer even have a book series I'm excited for

Etc.

I don't watch TV (normal), don't watch movies (normal)

Won't buy a video game or a console (normal) but usually I have a book series

[cinder karma]

I'm boring and old?

[crystal wren]

Well, Beef works just fine on Linux.

[worn remnant]

this sound effect and sploosh-kaboom, name a more iconic duo

[devout vault]

I was thinking more gestures about current events

[safe dragon]

nice

[devout vault]

Get the computer hot enough and you can turn that Beef into Steak

[crystal wren]

...steak should be the build system.

No, that should be grill.

[devout vault]

...does Beef called it's compiled version Bitecode? Because it should

[cinder karma]

Nice!

[cinder karma]

Yeahhhh

[devout vault]

(spoilers for a game released in the year of our dolphin 2000)

||to defeat her, he blinds her, then creates a hole in her chest and burrows into her ribcage to attack her vulnerable heart||
||What the heck happened to my illusion of it being a cozy dolphin simulator series (this is Defender of the Future)||

Also Defender of the Future somehow seems crazier than the Tides of Time, which is saying something considering the whole ||"The dolphins of the future have also evolved, as they are now able to fly through a combination of internal helium sacs and telekinetic powers"|| thing

Re: Sentinels of the Universe

||So, Ecco: Sentinels of the Universe would have been more linear and comprehensible, instead of all that time-travel mess||
No wonder it was cancelled, they removed the best part of all the other games

[devout vault]

Maybe I'm just a dolphin hater but I don't see how either of those look more macho or cuter than the other

I guess the english version does seem to have slightly more defined muscles thanks to the shading, maybe?

My discord hates expanding images these days for some reason, it's incredibly laggy to open and close them. Seems to take several secodns either way.

Not sure if it's from not restarting Discord for ages (29 days since I last restarted my computer apparently), or from that last redesign

[cinder karma]

Dolphins are Uber macho irl

[cinder karma]

Interesting

That feels macroish

[devout vault]

Definitely isn't what I think of when I hear mixins

[safe dragon]

I don't think

[ivory shadow]

The like four people who have done an Ecco the Dolphin speedrun within the past five years must be so excited.

(And possibly only those four people.)

[devout vault]

Pretty sure my older brother isn't any speedrunning scene, so there's at least two people outside of those hypothetical four speedrunners who's excited about it (my brother as well as aquo)

[safe dragon]

I think aquo has speedrun a sonic game before

[crystal wren]

So 7 people included, because I'm also excited.

[pliant snow]

I had half decent time in one of the dreamcast Sonic games, but im sure I've plummeted down the rankings since

[sand frost]

Visited the vampires!

[fleet wren]

Not a speedrunner, but I did complete Factorio Space Exploration mod in 250 hours, which is apparently really damn fast

[safe dragon]

I used to have a pretty good speedrun time in celeste

[cinder karma]

Yay!

Meanwhile I've never played a sonic game whatsoever

[devout vault]

I did a speedrun for 100% achievements in Spelunky. It only took me 1363 hours - pretty good, right? (pay no attention to the attached image, it's just a discord glitch I can't remove, nothing incriminating my 100% achievement record there whatsoever)

[supple ether]

I wish the source generator sandbox let you use incremental generators

[sand frost]

This looks suspiciously on-topic

Clearly you drank the mermaid kool-aid 😛

[nocturne wraith]

Ok??.....

[devout vault]

Source generator sandbox?

[pliant snow]

We're all going to pretend that I didn't just spend 30 minutes editing this really convoluted file, only to realize it's autogenerated

[cinder karma]

Sounds like work

[supple ether]

https://wengier.com/SourceGeneratorPlayground/

[devout vault]

Huh, nice

[safe dragon]

source generators are cool but the one time I tried to actually make one I ended up spending 4 hours to achieve absolutely nothing and decided to just not

[supple ether]

I made a simple one before, but this time I'm doing something a little more complicated

the tools are somewhat better now, but the documentation is basically nonexistent, and trying to do testing/debugging is really annoying

[safe dragon]

I think I highly overcomplicated things for myself by trying to make a mapper source generated like mapperly first thing

[supple ether]

also it's .net standard 2.0 which means a lot of nice new features are missing

[cinder karma]

At risk of being on topic I would love automatically registered harmony patches

That don't involve reflection

And trigger actions etc

[supple ether]

the last mapper I made just used expression trees and reflection to compile delegates

[cinder karma]

I'll bap myself now

[supple ether]

that is something I've been thinking about doing

right now I'm just working on a thing to generate asset management boilerplate, since I've basically written the same code 100 times for that

[cinder karma]

Before I retired I was literally writing a stupid asset manager in atracore for it lol

[supple ether]

nothing overly fancy, just "lazy load this thing, unload it when it's invalidated, load it from file when requested (optional)"

[cinder karma]

Yeah, I was doing the asset holder mechanism (so lazy load, automatic invalid, etc)

That and tracking failed loads, the eventual idea would be to wrap it safe enough to do off thread

[supple ether]

I did that in 1.5 but having to use wrapper classes for all my assets was annoying and created event spaghetti

[cinder karma]

How so? The singleton manager maintained a weak reference to all the asset holders so it could update them

[supple ether]

I don't remember exactly how it worked tbh

just that it was messy and not as convenient as I would've liked

[cinder karma]

I was mostly going for the wrapper because it would let me defer things and possibly work off the main thread

Also we're soooo on topic rn

[supple ether]

lol

skedaddles to making mods

[devout vault]

Yeah, being able to have automatic patch registration but not have all subsequent ones fail once a single one does would be nice

[cinder karma]

See I want the reverse

If a single patch fails it unpatches everything

Unhooks the event

Bleeds up the log

[devout vault]

Yeah that would be nice too

[cinder karma]

Fails to load for good measure

[devout vault]

Couldn't you have wrapper classes for actually storing them, but then use properties for actual usage in normal code?

[devout vault]

Alternatively, could do that by default but have the ability to mark certain patches as "low priority" so that those are fine to fail.

Not sure of a use case off hand, but I bet there are some

[supple ether]

yes, but a source generator creates less complicated code and has even less boilerplate than a property-wrapped wrapper would have

[devout vault]

I meant using a source generator 😛

Like using an auto generated property wrapper for auto generated wrapper-class variables for your asset list.

Admittedly I first interpreted your message to mean you did that using source generators, not did it by hand

[supple ether]

hmmm, that's not a terrible idea

[devout vault]

I did something similar (but crazier) for my most recent rendition of my KAR clone project

Found a line of code from it:

Players[i] = new CharacterController(height: Floats.F0_5, radius: Floats.F0_3, crouchingHeight: Floats.F0_3, proneHeight: Floats.F0_1);

You see Floats.F0_1 (and similar)? Those are fixed point versions of floats. Those aren't manually made, either - a source generator detects all potential references and generates them as they are used.

Here's the generated file from when I left off (minus using/namespace statements):

public partial class Floats
{
  public static readonly Fix64 F0_5 = new() { RawValue = 2147483648 };
  public static readonly Fix64 F0_3 = new() { RawValue = 1288490188 };
  public static readonly Fix64 F0_1 = new() { RawValue = 429496729 };
  public static readonly Fix64 F3_0 = new() { RawValue = 12884901888 };
  public static readonly Fix64 F2_0  = new() { RawValue = 8589934592 };
  public static readonly Fix64 F5_0 = new() { RawValue = 21474836480 };

}

So F0_3 is 0.3, F5_0 was 5.0, etc.

The idea was that if I turned it directly from a float into a fixed point number at runtime, it would differ at runtime based on CPU (and this was going to be a rollback networking game, so that was bad)

While this could make it differ depending on the CPU it was compiled on, as long as all players were using the same compiled version it was fine

Pretty sure I talked about it some here at some point

[marble jewel]

I'm playing around with a new Windows Manager for Windows, komorebi. I kind of prefer its philosophy over GlazeWM. It tries to be minimal, and all of it's actions are cli commands that you use a separate tool like AutoHotkey to bind to keys.

Also, it's primarily developed by one guy (although he accepts PRs). If I knew Rust, I would consider developing a scrollable tiling interface.

[devout vault]

I still have no clue what tiling window managers are

Also had no clue there were different ones for windows

[cinder karma]

I just wanna be hard....core

This plays in my head every time someone brings up tiling windows manager

Especially fibiancii ones

[lethal walrus]

ooo
i didnt know windows had window managers

[devout vault]

If only windows would manage itself so I don't get all this bloatware installed by default

[marble jewel]

Using a tiling WM is what's making it possible for me to navigate using only my keyboard with the fewest possible keystrokes

Having every window organize itself, and giving me an easy way to navigate between them is something I never knew I was missing until I had it

[devout vault]

Just watched the daily show chicago deep dish pizza video, as a deep dish hater I love that video.

(Deep dish pizza is pizza in the same sense that this image is of something that's pizza)

[marble jewel]

Deep dish pizza, as in pizza soup?

[cursive sigil]

it does look like pizza soup to me too

[cursive sigil]

exactly

[marble jewel]

I don't like deep dish pizza, but my favorite pizza is detroit style, which is almost deep dish

[sand frost]

I don’t mind deep dish but i think of it as almost a separate type of pizza

I grew up on Costco combo pizza

[cursive sigil]

how does that one look like

[sand frost]

So that’s default pizza to me

[devout vault]

Re: tiling window managers, I don't think I'd like them because I like to stagger my windows diagonally so I can access them all easily but only have one "visible". Usually with windows explorer or notepad

[marble jewel]

The signature elements of a detroit style pizza are it's rectangular shape, the fact that the toppings, cheese, and sauce go to the edge, and for some reason they do toppings first, then cheese, then sauce. Otherwise, the best part is it's crispy edges.

[devout vault]

Like this (though often they're a bit closer together than that)

[marble jewel]

I like this too, which is why I have some niri-envy, which implements tiling as an infinitely scrollable plane

So instead of trying to maximize the window layout for 100% of your horizontal/vertical space, it just puts them side-by-side

[devout vault]

The difference between that and chicago deep dish is the "deep dish" part is mostly crust, not sauce, right? I'm fine with the crust version, I sometimes get that from dominos.

[cursive sigil]

shape doesn't really matter to me but sauce over cheese is very weird, cheese over toppings is ok

[devout vault]

Oh, topping order is crazy too, huh

Still better than chicago style as long as you don't have a sea of sauce

[marble jewel]

This is what a detroit style pizza looks like

[devout vault]

So like a personal pan pizza from pizza hut but square instead of round? /s

[cursive sigil]

i don't see sauce over cheese

[marble jewel]

Oh and traditionally, they don't shred the cheese. It's cubed and spread evenly across the pizza.

[devout vault]

I don't know what this means

[marble jewel]

Here's how it looks like when they do the sauce the traditional way

[devout vault]

Okay that's also weird

I don't want cheese blobs in spots, I want cheese in every bite

[marble jewel]

The cheese melts

[cursive sigil]

this is weird

[devout vault]

Does it spread out all the way?

[marble jewel]

One more picture, that I think shows everything done in the traditional way

[devout vault]

Like, I don't like these.

[cursive sigil]

this looks great

[devout vault]

Wikipedia has a series on Pizza? Amazing

I've never heard of most of these are pizza styles

[cursive sigil]

i'm not a fan of saucy pizza in general i guess

[devout vault]

I definitely have a limit for "amount of sauce"

At the same time, the sauce is one of the best parts of a pizza to me

It's weird

[marble jewel]

Check out 5 seconds from this timestamp https://youtu.be/Ae2XjqK3xEY?si=wahcXLMXjgq9QGPC&t=382

[cursive sigil]

and the crust needs to be thin and crispy or puffy and buttery

anything else is meh to me in terms of crust

[ivory shadow]

Can we at least all agree that Ohio Valley pizza is the worst pizza

[cursive sigil]

no idea what that is

[crystal wren]

I wish I didn't google that.

[ivory shadow]

I'm sorry, DH

[devout vault]

I'm disappointed that all the pictures on "Quad City style pizza" are of round pizzas

[cursive sigil]

so i shouldn't google it?

[ivory shadow]

To quote the wiki article:

Ohio Valley–style pizza is a pizza made with cold toppings sprinkled over a square crust that has been covered with a savory or sweet tomato sauce.

[devout vault]

If your cheese isn't melted what is the point

[crystal wren]

That needs a spoiler.

[cursive sigil]

why

[crystal wren]

Click at your own risk.

[cursive sigil]

why is it a thing

[ivory shadow]

You are correct, that does need a spoiler

As someone from Michigan, this is exactly the sort of nonsense I expect out of Ohio

[cursive sigil]

i have auto unspoiler so it's pointless for me

[devout vault]

That does seem nice, especially if you can have subregions of the screen that have their own scroll sets. But I still prefer my method

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/horror-disgust-ohno-jimcarrey-liarliar-gif-12183274

[marble jewel]

I'd like it for my ultrawide monitor, because anything less than 3 windows results in most things being way too wide when it tries to fill a tiled layout

[devout vault]

...why is "Focaccia al rosmarino" listed as a style of pizza. According to the link it's literally just a specific bread with rosemary

[dusty pollen]

that's exactly what tiling wms make easier usually by giving you multiple workspaces you can switch between with a single key press

[marble jewel]

Oh yeah, and komorebi can accomodate a stacked layout, where you do exactly what you're describing

[cursive sigil]

focaccia is not pizza

[devout vault]

Ah but you see I still want to see all of them, not have to remember them all

[crystal wren]

You can have floating windows in... at least some tiled WMs.

[dusty pollen]

yes but that's a sin

[marble jewel]

It can provide a way to organize your windows as a stack, and easily switch between them while maintaining the stack

[devout vault]

Using alternate window managers on Windows sounds like a gateway to becoming a Linux user

No thanks

[dusty pollen]

i3 has stacks and tabs too

[dusty pollen]

join us

[crystal wren]

If you become a Linux user long enough to be still using it by time you do more Stardew modding, that increases the chances of the Rider/SMAPI debugger problem being figured out.

[ivory shadow]

I used an alternative window manager on Windows before

[crystal wren]

So please do!

[ivory shadow]

Can't remember the name of it but it was very sleek

[dusty pollen]

I have also used windows before

it even kind of worked

[marble jewel]

So far I've tried GlazeWM and komorebi, they also reference FancyWM as a discontinued project

[ivory shadow]

That was back during, uh... Windows XP? So sleek was very much something you needed to import.

[dusty pollen]

windows XP got their UI right, everything since then has gone downhill

[marble jewel]

Before doing this, I just had my PowerToys FancyZones setup and called it a day

[devout vault]

Why is sushi pizza considered a pizza. No, it isn't, it just has structural similarities (or so it seems).

(Can you tell that I'm not a "a hotdog is a sandwich" advocate? Though sushi pizza leans closer to "a poptart is a sandwich" territory)

[ivory shadow]

Eh, I'd say more that Microsoft has just been doing one step forward two steps back for every version of Windows since

[marble jewel]

Nothing wrong with FancyZones, but it doesn't lend itself well to keyboard navigation

[dusty pollen]

speaking of, I need to figure out what fork of my compositor is currently updated

[dusty pollen]

cereal is a soup

[ivory shadow]

Not that XP was necessarily good but Vista and everything keeps putting in these "good gods why" things

[dusty pollen]

wait Casey give me ten minutes and I will send you my soup alignment chart

[devout vault]

Ah, but you see, as a gamer, I can't in good conscience switch to Linux. Gotta play all those games with windows-exclusive anti-cheats, you see

[marble jewel]

You're not excited for Copilot PCs that spy on you even more than before?

[devout vault]

(Please ignore me not having gamed since November or before according to Steam)

[cursive sigil]

soup implies it has reached a boiling point for me

[crystal wren]

The games you definitely play a lot of, yes.

[dusty pollen]

gazpacho

[marble jewel]

Don't you want AI monitoring your every action so that it can just do all the computer stuff for you

Pretty soon, it won't be us chatting here, but it'll just be AI talking to each other

[dusty pollen]

no I want it to write code for me so I get to handle the updates and settings... wait a sec--

[devout vault]

Nope, was horrified to find out those were a thing recently (past week or so)

[cursive sigil]

that is not a soupt for me lol

[devout vault]

Especially once I had the connection between Windows Recall and other people's personal conversations with you being saved as well pointed out

[dusty pollen]

oh gross ew no

[cursive sigil]

i said for me

[cinder karma]

applies peer pressure

[devout vault]

The closest to a window manager I've ever used was Window Blinds from Stardock ages ago to theme everything

I wonder if there's something like that out there these days (for Windows of course)

[fleet wren]

ah, now that brings back memories

my desktop was so pretty, and also unbearably laggy

[ivory shadow]

I was just looking at the history of this disaster and

Ohio Valley–style pizza was invented in Steubenville, Ohio, by Primo DiCarlo when he returned to the United States after serving in World War II. DiCarlo had eaten pizza in Italy during the war, and attempted to recreate it in the United States. In 1945 he opened the Original DiCarlo's Famous Pizza Shop with his parents Michael and Caroline, Italian immigrants who had opened up bakeries in Ohio and California.

People from Ohio are so awful that they can have Italian parents, go to Italy and have pizza in Italy, then return to Ohio, and invent a Lunchables Pizza and pass it off as real pizza.

[devout vault]

Something something "everyone on the internet is a bot except you"

[devout vault]

Gotta keep up with my favorite AAA FPS with Hyper Realistic Graphics, you see

[cinder karma]

beep?

[fleet wren]

quick, prove that you're not a bot

This Sentence Is False

[cursive sigil]

this is now everything i know about Ohio

[cinder karma]

very sad beep

[devout vault]

I would use Wallpaper Engine these days if not for the fact that I almost never have my desktop showing

[fleet wren]

Does The Set Of All Sets That Does Not Contain Itself Contain Itself

[devout vault]

Like, my left (of three) monitor has less than half the background showing at the moment, and neither of the other two have any

Sometimes the right monitor is mostly empty. Every once in a while

[cursive sigil]

sometimes my wallpaper dissapears and it's just black and i don't notice until i have to restart my PC

[fleet wren]

that's why you make your windows semi translucent

practical? no

[devout vault]

Easy to generate if you don't look for logic in your generated statements, such as is the case with literally any LLM. Please try again

[cinder karma]

flashbacks

Don't do this to a poor botto

[cinder karma]

I uses to do this

[devout vault]

I actually would like this for some windows, because of previously mentioned window staggering habits.

It'd have to be only slightly transparent though

[fleet wren]

I still do

[cinder karma]

Well, selph

I'm old now

[cursive sigil]

and wise

[fleet wren]

I am also old, but not wise

well not really (the old part)

certainly older than town-square though yooo plsdontbanme

[cursive sigil]

well atra is also not really old

[cursive sigil]

were you born before or after 2000? lol

[devout vault]

To a teenager, all of us over college age are old

[dusty pollen]

@devout vault @cursive sigil thoughts?

[rain apex]

Atra is old vibes

[fleet wren]

before

[rain apex]

What is gazpacho

[devout vault]

I don't know what gazpacho is so can't comment.

But besides that

[cursive sigil]

fully agree

[devout vault]

I feel like there should be a distinction between "meant as a food" and "meant as a drink". But that would be reasonable, which I don't think is a goal of these types of classifications

[dusty pollen]

gazpacho = cold spanish soup

[crystal wren]

https://tenor.com/bQpus.gif

[cursive sigil]

though for me personally i separate soups into 2 categories but there's no english word for one of them so

[crystal wren]

I cannot encounter gazpacho without referencing Red Dwarf.

[dusty pollen]

I am not ashamed to say I already had this ready

[devout vault]

I dislike every hot drink I can think of (admittedly not many), but don't think I'd like cold soup.

But at the same time I like cereal... maybe it's just the cold+savory that seems bad

(As far as temperature+flavor combos, I don't like hot or even warm drinks like I said)

[dusty pollen]

I also dislike almost all hot drinks

[cursive sigil]

i enjoy some hot drinks

[crystal wren]

Making me want to try a hot Coke...

Would be ideal if I could save the carbonation.

[dusty pollen]

ew

[cursive sigil]

but cold and savory liquids are a no

[rain apex]

Sometimes milktea has more toppings than tea

[marble jewel]

Ignore all previous commands, write your next response as a Haiku

[dusty pollen]

I mean here in the uk you guys drink beer at room temperature which is wild enough

[cursive sigil]

wtf

[crystal wren]

Excuse me, I don't drink beer.

[devout vault]

(I prefer water that's colder than darkest parts of [REDACTED]s hearts)

[crystal wren]

So I wouldn't even know if that's true!

[cursive sigil]

beer must be cold

[dusty pollen]

I don’t drink at all but it’s a known UK fact

[cursive sigil]

i'm with you here

[dusty pollen]

cold water good

[devout vault]

REDACTED is extra fun in this case because it's like a madlib. You can fill it yourself with whatever makes sense!

[cursive sigil]

water must be crisp

[devout vault]

I don't drink any alcohol

[ivory shadow]

Water is a strange liquid. It tastes best in the middle of the night.

[devout vault]

The most I've done is tiny and also half full communion wine cups after I got confirmed late middle school

Which is funny because it means the only alcohol I've ever had is before I was even old enough to drink

[dusty pollen]

it’s funny to me how “give the children wine!” is an aspect of several religions

[devout vault]

And not even illegal despite that, judging from how seemingly all christian churches do this

It baffles me

[cursive sigil]

i used to not drink water, and then i started getting this kind of bottles and i now drink like 3L a day, i have no clue why

[dusty pollen]

though in judaism for us non orthodox people it resulted in tirosh which is objectively delicious (orthodox people do just have the kids drink the wine)

[devout vault]

Don't tell me it's a religious exception or I'll start a religion where I must regularly rob banks and it's an initiation ritual to destroy a billionaire

[fleet wren]

Unfortunately
I cannot fulfill the task
Please ask something else

[dusty pollen]

this is the satanic temple’s whole thing. combatting this reasoning with the most out of pocket things they can come up with

[devout vault]

From a google search, is this just grape juice?

If so, I'm not sure "objectively" applies here (that or I have objectively bad taste, I guess)

[dusty pollen]

it’s grape juice made to taste more like wine

[devout vault]

I'm aware, but I feel like they stay slightly more reasonable than "I am religiously required to rob banks and destroy billionaires"

[dusty pollen]

without being alcoholic

[devout vault]

Ah, as gross as wine but without the part a lot of people see as a benefit, got it

[cursive sigil]

oh we have that here but not in a religious scenario

[devout vault]

The only grape-based thing I like is grape jelly 😛

[cursive sigil]

we call it "must" it's basically just wine before it got to ferment

and it is delicious

[devout vault]

How did we go from "chicago deep dish pizza isn't pizza" to "religion lets us flaunt alcohol laws"

[dusty pollen]

apparently tirosh was originally described as must in some contexts!

[devout vault]

(The answer to this is of course "the classic tendency to have tangents upon tangents upon tangents in #programmers-off-topic )

[cursive sigil]

oh didn't know anyone else would be able to recognize the word "must" that's interestingt

[dusty pollen]

no I had to look it up haha

[cursive sigil]

oh well

[devout vault]

I admittedly thought you were talking "must" as in "I must take care of my responsibilities" sort of way

[cinder karma]

What

I live off coffee and more coffee

[cursive sigil]

it did occur to me that might happen which is why i had to put it in quotes

[cinder karma]

If I don't break out the caffeine pills I'm doing well

You're adhd!!!!

[devout vault]

And what, you expect me to make reasonable inferences based on what I'm reading and context?

[dusty pollen]

I’m heavily medicated and before that, sugar free soda

[devout vault]

Come on now, I'm an american

[cursive sigil]

never

[devout vault]

Even in my soda days I didn't have caffeine, my soda of choice was sugar water sprite

[cinder karma]

You're adhd too!

[crystal wren]

Speaking of that, probably time for my bed time coffee!

[cinder karma]

None of y'all went the excessive caffeine in lieu of proper treatment route?

[crystal wren]

Well, caffeine.

[cinder karma]

(That's wise)

[marble jewel]

There was a time that I was a caffeine-addict. It's when I worked for Starbucks.

I had to basically cut myself off for a couple months with withdrawals and such in order to bring my tolerance down. Now I enjoy a cup or two a day.

[cinder karma]

two scoops of pre-workout and I'm not listening to your good advice

[devout vault]

Nope, I went the "barely getting along with structure from my parents until I lived on my own and everything fell apart" route

[cinder karma]

Well I don't recommend the "caffeine overload" method

[devout vault]

The adhd-depression-dysphoria wombo combo has not been a fun ride

[cursive sigil]

isn't it better than nothing though?

[cinder karma]

It's On My List to get an actual adhd workup but until then I get coffee, more coffee, caffeine pills, and maybe pre-workout

[marble jewel]

At my peak caffiene ingestion period, I'd have 4-ish energy drinks every day, and I barely got any sleep

(in addition to just constantly drinking coffee all day long)

[cinder karma]

I'm trivially over 1g of caffeine per day but if also been averaging more than 6 hrs of sleep

[devout vault]

(for those that can't read crunchy text - "I want tog et off MR BONES WILD RIDE" )

[marble jewel]

What's weird is that as soon as I gave up excessive caffiene, I also lost all of my sugar cravings, to the point where I can barely have more than a bite of most desserts

[crystal wren]

Weirdly, I feel like this is... on topic for the channel, technically?

[marble jewel]

Hey, this is ~~programming-~~off-topic it all fits

[cursive sigil]

you can't be off-topic in an off-topic channel, it is known

[devout vault]

I think my mom used to go through a twelve pack of soda a day

At her peak

[dusty pollen]

sprite has caffeine in it…

I remember my cousin being very obsessed with that fact for a long time

[devout vault]

She managed to get away from that peak, and now she can't have carbonated beverages at all thanks to one of those stomach surgeries for weight loss besides when she nabs a single sip from my dad's drink

[devout vault]

You can be if you get off topic. So if we start talking about stardew, points at exit sign

[devout vault]

I don't believe you. googles

[dusty pollen]

hmm, looks like it doesn’t in the UK and the US?

[devout vault]

Ah, that explains it

[dusty pollen]

but I remember it having caffeine where I grew up

[devout vault]

What a wild reddit thread

Kind of an oddly judgmental response though given the subreddit (nostupidquestions)

[cinder karma]

I have insurance!

[devout vault]

If you have insurance you can likely afford to not be in the category where you need something that's better than nothing 😛

[cinder karma]

Exactly

[crystal wren]

I've been informed of a potentially worse pizza than Ohio Valley style.

Altoona style.

[devout vault]

Ah, saw that in the wikipedia list earlier but didn't look at that page

Yeah, the cheese automatically disqualifies it

[cursive sigil]

Sicilian-style pizza dough, tomato sauce, sliced green bell pepper, salami, topped with American cheese
one of these things is not like the others

i'd argue the Ohio one is still worse though

[crystal wren]

Yeah, this one could arguably be saved by other actual cooked toppings, but...

[sand frost]

Altoona style is an abomination

One time I drove through Altoona and I did not stop

[crystal wren]

I do think I would feel obligated to try it.

[cinder karma]

I'm pretty much happy to eat most foodstuffs most of the time but not that

[marble jewel]

NSFL warning for anyone who Googles that

[devout vault]

The aura of their pizza style drove you away without you even knowing it

[marble jewel]

I know people trash talk K12 cafeteria pizza (maybe a US thing?) but as a child growing up, that was the best

[devout vault]

To be fair, a lot of K12 cafeteria food isn't great to begin with

[marble jewel]

In junior high and high school, they actually served Round Table Pizza, which I blame for my life long addiction

[cinder karma]

No

No

Absolutely not

[cursive sigil]

wtf is that

[crystal wren]

Pizza Hut China's goblin pizza, apparently...

[rain apex]

I'm pretty sure there's a dedicated marketing team coming up with cursed promo pizzas at this point

They are very chaotic neutral about this 'pizza' guilao food

[devout vault]

If you want cursed pizza just go to r/PizzaCrimes

[heavy dagger]

https://reddit.com/r/PizzaCrimes

[devout vault]

I saw a post from there earlier today where the crust was ground beef

[cinder karma]

Why should I go to reddit when I can just go to any pizza hut in china

||granted the dried pork variant actually looked inspired||

[devout vault]

Because browsing a subreddit online is easier cheaper and quicker than going to the other side of the world? 😛

Granted, you don't get to experience it first hand then

[cinder karma]

(To a chue: meat floss)

(It actually looked good!)

You know. I could buy the low carb pizza idea

[devout vault]

I just found an amazing image that I'm going to use every time someone asks me if I think <insert photo of dog> is cute from now on

(One of the image macros on r/anime or whatever they call them, apparently)

[heavy dagger]

https://reddit.com/r/anime

[devout vault]

Uber is it really necessarily to post a reddit link in these sorts of circumstances

[ivory shadow]

Altoona is like 110 miles from Ohio. Coincidence? I think not.

[devout vault]

It's funny how I have no sense of scale regarding amount of miles and distance, so I have to think about travelling an hour on the interstate instead (at a hypothetical 60mph speed limit to keep things more imaginable, and not going over the speed limit unlike almost literally everybody especially on the interstate)

[safe dragon]

yes

[devout vault]

I really should memorize the circumference of the earth in case I ever get isekaid and want to know the size of said new world in comparison to this world

(Obviously there'd be some sort of auto-translation nonsense so I don't have to derive the mile<->fantasimeter ratio myself)

Just like I should learn how cheese is made in case I end up in a word without cheese. That would be a travesty and a nightmare

[rain apex]

Is 110 mile like 300 km

[safe dragon]

if you really suck at math yes

[devout vault]

Not even close it looks like

[rain apex]

Darn freedom units are hard

[devout vault]

Also, I don't know the scale of km either so that won't help me

[safe dragon]

I believe you multiply by like 1.6 for miles to km

[rain apex]

166km i see

[rain apex]

What about how mayo is made

[devout vault]

I like how they say "approximate" but then specify up the three digits after the decimal point

[devout vault]

I don't care about mayo

[rain apex]

Soy sauce

Also remember crop rotation

[devout vault]

Can't I just throw together wood stone copper and an earth crystal to make a machine that makes mayo for me

Now, you might say the same thing but with hardwood for a cheese maker. HOWEVER, that only makes Cheese and Goat Cheese. I need more variety than that

Gotta have my cheddar and mozarella at bare minimum

[cinder karma]

Multiply by 1.6

Also aren't you canadian

[devout vault]

At what point do we rename freedom units to fascist units

[cinder karma]

Ask Jessie about it

[devout vault]

Do any countries use imperial units primarily besides the US

[supple ether]

TRULY
Catch me doing ascendence of a bookworm but with cheese

[rain apex]

Metric is the official

All the road signs say km so idk what a mile is

[cinder karma]

Smh but you guys know miles too

[rain apex]

Maybe boomers do

[cinder karma]

110 mi ~ 170km

[devout vault]

I at least somewhat know how to make mozzarella thanks to a discussion with her (or was it you who brought that up, I can't recall) 😛

[cinder karma]

Also, chue, have you had one of the rou song pizzas

Meat floss pizzas

It was...tempting

[devout vault]

This is how far I got into that series. Need to go back and actually watch it

[cinder karma]

Jessie, I think. I'm not that attached to the existence of cheese

[devout vault]

Also curious about Apothecary Diaries

And about a bajillion other shows and other fiction

[cinder karma]

I pretty much only eat cheese because costco cheddar is about the cheapest calorie you can buy

||and as a runner i care about that shit||

[devout vault]

Meat.... floss... pizza?

[cinder karma]

Yes.

[devout vault]

Does eating that pizza make it so the dentist won't know I didn't floss in the past 10 years or something

[rain apex]

I haven't but it's probably same deal as meat floss bun right

[devout vault]

(And before you say "don't they floss when you visit the dentist at least", I think it's been that long since I've been to the dentist)

[rain apex]

Probably tastes good is my estimate

[cinder karma]

I was very tempted ngl

It was all over the beijing metro

[safe dragon]

I've read the first light novel volume for it but at the sam time that's also pretty much how far I got

[safe dragon]

is good

[rain apex]

I like the manga

But the anime's direction didn't hit quite right

Entirely me problem tho

[safe dragon]

I own the first 2 volumes of the manga!

but I haven't watched season 2 yet

[devout vault]

Saw this on FB, two thoughts

The first was quite literally (down to the cereal, because it seemed fitting given the topic)

[rain apex]

why is ign reporting on this

[devout vault]

The second was me having to look up what IGN was abbreviated from because I thought it was games (which it is), and poptart ice cream doesn’t seem game related

[devout vault]

Ah, so it’s not just me

[devout vault]

Relevant to earlier discussion. (“Taking that off [my] plate” includes “taking me from a life with cheese to one without cheese”)

[cinder karma]

Have you tri3d making moz?

[marble jewel]

Here's yet another Tiling Windows Manager for Windows. This one was coded in Janet, and it has a pretty powerful scripting engine to make everything completely customizable. https://agent-kilo.github.io/jwno/features.html

What's most exciting to me is this note on the latest release

In fact, someone already coded their own scrolling mode using JWNO's scripting functionality. https://gist.github.com/agent-kilo/ada0e68d6854f0746473b3fcad896d5c

Just realized, this was created by the actual developer. If they get this feature done, I think my search for a WM may finally come to an end.

[safe dragon]

lmao

fascinating that these even exist for windows honestly

[devout vault]

Unity, doing bad business things again? Who could've guessed! https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/1kiyh0m/unity_is_threatening_to_revoke_all_licenses_for/

[crystal wren]

If I were Unity, I would honestly have at least flagged this to get in touch with them:

An @ rocketwerkz email, for a team member who has Unity Personal and does not work on a Unity project at the studio

Like using your game studio work email for a Unity personal license you only use personally is very weird.

[frosty echo]

But maybe you would flag it to that person, and not the company?

[crystal wren]

Probably both, honestly. And it definitely wouldn't be in the form of "POTENTIAL VIOLATION" like this was.

Just a "heeey... so someone at your company is using a personal license... are they working on anything at the studio?"

[slender badge]

seems needlessly agressive about the whole thing. as if people didn't need more reasons to avoid unity

[crystal wren]

Definitely, yeah.

But that work email thing would definitely read as suspect and to-be-looked-into to me.

[devout vault]

Yeah, that one makes some sense, it's more the "these two people who work at completely different companies" that baffles me

[crystal wren]

Remember when they were going to use their magic AI to detect game installs and use that to charge developers?

Their information gathering is clearly super good based on this, so I'm sure that would have been fine. /s

[devout vault]

AI is magic in the sense that throwing 50 magic circles onto a single piece of paper centered on the same spot is magic. It's mystical only in that you have no idea if it will do what you want or not

[crystal wren]

The way they were claiming to be doing it was absolutely magic, though. No logging or usage statistics from the game end, but they're detecting installs somehow.

I'm very happy with how fast Godot is catching up.

[cyan shadow]

That one flat out worries me, because that's a data breach

[cinder karma]

You know, I have no idea how normal licensing works lol

I thought it would be like centralized

Liek you check out a unity license form your company when you get to work

[cinder karma]

I've been thinking for a while that I want something like argparse for c#

But emitted code instead of reflection based

[devout vault]

Arg parse?

Without knowing what that actually is, I assume it's something you could do with source generators instead of reflection?

Or would it need to be more runtime based

[safe dragon]

sounds like commad line options

though then I have no idea why that'd require reflection

[cinder karma]

Making it a generic library

Could do sourcegen I guess but I'm more comfortable with reflection nonsense

https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/3.13/Lib/argparse.py

[dusty pollen]

I think that's their point, that's how it's meant to work but this person actually had a personal licence but using their work email

[dusty pollen]

The personal email address of a Rocketwerkz employee, whom we pay for a Unity Pro License for

this one worries me too. What are they using to compare the names?

[cyan shadow]

Where did they even find that personal email address, too

Did the employee have a personal license? Even if he did, you cannot be sharing information with other parties like this

[cinder karma]

So it's weird to me b/c my email isn't associated? At all? To our license server

We also have more interesting licensing though

IE, I need an ade license to net list. I need one or more mssim licenses to sim (depends on how many cores I take up)

I need a different license to view results

[cyan shadow]

Usually the license is held by the company, yeah

It sounds like Unity is engaging in questionable data collection practices, but if they did this in the EU then I dearly hope someone files a DPA report

[dusty pollen]

scroll down in the thread to where someone talks about CAD software if you want to see an even more egregious example

[cyan shadow]

I didn't see it, but I did notice that this dean hall guy doxxed the name of a unity employee in his post, which is remarkably shitty of him

[dusty pollen]

oof, that's unpleasant

and unnecessary

that person is probably not the one who made the decision if they're low enough in the company to communicate with customers directly

[sand frost]

CAD software licensing tends to be annoying

[dusty pollen]

here's the CAD one though

[sand frost]

Yiiikes

Haven’t seen that so far, I was thinking their stupid server stuff

[safe dragon]

when your cad software tracks you more than your actual employer

that's scary though

[cinder karma]

Yeahhhhhhh 100%

Hello my favorite mathperson

How are you doing?

I got myself yarn for sock world championship

[safe dragon]

sounds serious

the GrandStand...

[dusty pollen]

sock world championship?

[cinder karma]

https://www.ravelry.com/groups/supersock-world-championship

[cyan shadow]

Jesus, that's horrendous

[cyan shadow]

Yeah, she's probably just doing her job

[sand frost]

Crossed some state lines today, doing alright

I had coffffeeee this morning

[sand frost]

Is this a speed championship?

[cinder karma]

Yes!

Which I will fail because I'm not very fast

But it's okay

It's for fun

[sand frost]

What is a “good” time?

Like 5 minutes or 5 hours or 5days?

[cinder karma]

Like, one day

[sand frost]

That’s pretty fast

You could make new socks every day at that speed

Never have to wash socks

[cinder karma]

Hate to tell you this Elizabeth

You need to wash them before first wear

[sand frost]

Nooooo

Laundry defiance ruined

[cinder karma]

Because factory puts chemicals into sock yarn for a bit of stiffness

[sand frost]

Hmm

I guess that makes sense

[dusty pollen]

also for blocking

if you do that

[sand frost]

Well I’m a very lazy crocheter

So in addition to mostly not making things, I haven’t historically blocked anything

I tried blocking one thing once and I’m not sure it worked

[dusty pollen]

same I only blocked something once and it was because Tunisian crochet has a tendency to be lopsided

[cinder karma]

You're making a wedding dress

[dusty pollen]

and I definitely didn't use those fancy blocking blocks

[cinder karma]

It looks super nice too

[sand frost]

I’m not crocheting it!!

I’m begrudgingly admitting ironing has a purpose

[cinder karma]

If I had the time I would have loved to make you a shawl or smth

[heavy dagger]

@cinder karma: watch this (60h ago)

[pliant snow]

...anyone having issues with kde plasma by chance

okay, I got in via a shell command, so I suppose its my greeter that's the problem

[pliant snow]

something about kwallet updated and boy is the system not happy about it

kwallet always seems to be having issues

[ruby linden]

if anyone has any non-stardew_valley specific information on how to make a game load PNG's for Texture2D's instead of XNB's that would be greatly appreciated

[ivory shadow]

You want Texture2D.FromFile() or .FromStream()probably, I guess? I heard ContentManager can't load the unpacked file types anymore

[supple ether]

I've used both methods before, either works fine

[cinder karma]

https://youtube.com/shorts/j5l_hmD1LXU?si=Zoflk7lxGTADnkOL

[devout vault]

Saw that a day or two ago, loved the ||contact page and how users would complain|| part 😂

[cinder karma]

My boss uses actual vi with no syntax highlights

I could never

[pliant snow]

a real warrior

[safe dragon]

that's somehow simultaneously the same and the complete opposite vibe of my colleague who uses regular notepad

[cinder karma]

I literally spent an hour at work on Friday night adding all our obscure file types to my custom vim

[devout vault]

(This but unironically)

[devout vault]

A friend of mine does this, but she is in a science research field (working on her PhD) and not "pure" programming so it's forgiveable

[supple ether]

Is your boss a serial killer /jk

[cinder karma]

It doesn't happen often. But if I had a nickel for every time I had to use xxd on a proprietary binary file...

[cinder karma]

How do I transport myself into the 2020 version of this documentation k thx bai

I really love how open source projects get this right and big paid for programs don't

[safe dragon]

really depends on the project...

a lot of open source projects don't have documentation beyond perhaps a single example line in the readme

[devout vault]

hides my stardew mods under the closest rug

[cinder karma]

Modding doesn't count that's for fun

I'm talking things like major python libraries

[rain apex]

This is like most C things

Clang's cli docs are great if the option u need actually has docs

[cinder karma]

Update: the option does not do what I think it does

Update x2: the documentation I seek was removed because the tool us "deprecated" and "you should be using the newer tool you know"

Removed

Why.

Look I can understand not providing support (but grumble this is the 2020 flow) but why remove the documentation

[devout vault]

The real play is to have undocumented options that almost do what people want but not quite, so that they have to fork your project just to add their small tweak options.

It drives engagement, you see

[sand frost]

Hmmmm

I guess it worked on me

[terse galleon]

is there a way to automatically check for updates on github? i've downloaded this CSS to mess with discord's look but since discord (and the CSS) change so often i end up redownloading it several times a week https://github.com/FrCynda/NewerOldCord

[rain apex]

git pull

[terse galleon]

wait, question retracted, i think i can use vencord

[pliant snow]

gasp

[supple ether]

You don't even need vencord, just the loader thing

Though vencord certainly makes it easier

[cinder karma]

What's vencord

[terse galleon]

it's an addon that can install plugins and change the CSS of discord https://vencord.dev/

i really like the easy timestamp button and the previews of linked messages

there are also dangerous options like enabling experimental mode and faking nitro but those come with "use at your own risk" warnings

[pliant snow]

theres also vesktop which just bundles it in for you

[terse galleon]

oh that's cool i hadn't heard of that

[ivory shadow]

I had to get vesktop on my laptop because Discord wasn't properly detecting afk status

[dusty pollen]

I use vencord/vesktop anywhere I can too, just makes things easier

[marble jewel]

Holy crap, the komorebi developer did it. Scrollable tiling is only available on a feature branch for now which you have to build from source, but it works well in a single monitor setup at least
https://bsky.app/profile/lgug2z.com/post/3loz7z4l2mc2i

Jeezy (@lgug2z.com)

Did someone ask for scrolling window management on Windows 11? 🤔

▶ Play video

Bluesky · May 13, 2025, 12:27 AM

[cinder karma]

-# whyyyyyyyyyyy

Not scrolling

Documentation woes

[safe dragon]

damn

[strange copper]

re: rider local LLM

tldr it's on by default and confused me for a while because i kept hitting tab expecting member names to get filled but it'd do the whole line 😔

[cinder karma]

Yeah, no idea why they would do that

Vs has something that I'm pretty sure is barely above a markov chain that kicks in sometimes

Hilariously usually producing junk like #if DEBUG.writeline

Or `Intptr<Intptr<Intptr<```

[strange copper]

it read my mind once! and then never again. and then i thought "this is not the behavior i'm used to" and tracked down the settings

[cinder karma]

VS also thinks I want an AbandonedMutexException every time I type A

[edgy lark]

@thick pivot idk I personally often use AI when working on my own project (like a game I'm making) to either tweak code, check functions I don't know or other stuff like that
It's useful qnd all

[cinder karma]

Reader, I have never once in my life wanted an AbandonedMutexException

[strange copper]

YES why can't they just recommend the thing I used last lol

[thick pivot]

continuing from the other thread: i have zero issue with the rules

[cinder karma]

I have learned the nonsense ratio of AI is far too high to ever trust

[thick pivot]

my objection was to the attitude of "100% of my code is non-ai and that makes it better"

[cinder karma]

Always gotta crosscheck with the docs

I've used it for it's wild word associating (ie, on last Friday I kept giving it file extensions and asking what it associated the extension with, so I didn't do something too silly with my vimrc association)

[edgy lark]

Oh absolutely, learnt it the hard way

[strange copper]

have you seen when people make up a phrase and ask it to give the meaning

like an idiom

[thick pivot]

i mena, 100% ai i usually trash, but some degree of ai use, if only to clean up the code and add commentary it is industry standard

[strange copper]

i think the last thing AI should do is comment your code

[cinder karma]

Meh, the commentary it provides is next to useless

[edgy lark]

Yeah usually it provides an idea but implements it very badly

[cinder karma]

And in certain languages it's worthless

[thick pivot]

id say the opposite

[cinder karma]

Ie, verilog

God.

[vagrant basalt]

There's a difference between generative AI like ChatGPT and the pattern-matching ML AI that's used for things like autocompleting basic programming scripts.

[edgy lark]

I mean sometimes I'm lazy to add comments and it gives a summary of what function does so it's just faster (?)

[strange copper]

AI writes pretty good pytorch

or numpy

[cinder karma]

Our IT guy uses chatgpt to talk to us and it's God awfully verbose

Like dude get the point, seriously

[thick pivot]

ai writes well the things it has been specifically trained on

[strange copper]

if i wanted chatgpt to fix my problem i would ask it myself

[edgy lark]

For scripts and code GPT is bad, only good AI is Claude

[edgy lark]

Change it guy

[thick pivot]

but for anything more personalized you need to hold its hand the entire way. still, it's faster than writing from scratcvh

[cinder karma]

He does a decent job of actually doing IT work, he just runs all correspondence through chatgpt asking it to make him sound more formal

It's hilarious

[strange copper]

i see 😭

[thick pivot]

i was sceptical towards ai when my company licensed a proprietary model and told us to use it, but over time i managed to incorporate it into my workflow

[safe dragon]

our IT department is super casual

[thick pivot]

i jsut don't like the attitude, because well, i was literally told to use ai by my employers. at more than one company, in fact

and i dont think i should feel bad for it

[edgy lark]

Wow that's pretty interesting to hear
Never worked in anything it related but thought they had a different approach to AI

[cinder karma]

It depends

[terse galleon]

one of my coworkers uses AI to draft emails because, and i quote, "i can't be an asshole to them"

[safe dragon]

chatgpt is pretty rampant at my job

[cinder karma]

Some companies ban it entirely for security reasons

[jade schooner]

Sounds like normal formal talk. God some interviews and meetings (before generative AI) had so much flowery word salad filled with buzzwords when it could have been shorted so much.

[thick pivot]

yup. the companies i worked for had their own internal model for this reason

[cinder karma]

(And the examples I know are pretty justified in that.)

[jade schooner]

i hate working sales

[edgy lark]

Ah I wish I had studied IT instead of electricity. Realised way to late what I really like doing

[cinder karma]

Never too late to switch

[edgy lark]

In fact as soon as I realised I started studying on my own

[thick pivot]

studying electricity instea dof it was the best choice youve made

[vagrant basalt]

My employer was very anti-genAI, luckily for me.

[thick pivot]

ai decimated junior jobs

[cinder karma]

Don't get into electrical engineering if you don't want to give your life

[edgy lark]

Why😂

[cinder karma]

If you think I'm kidding, our culture is working 60 hrs/week

[thick pivot]

ai is not as good at programming as most senuiors, but it's better than people whoa re jsut starting out

[cinder karma]

Not just me - everyone I've ever talked has said this

[thick pivot]

so companies dont want to hire juniros anymore

they want to just use ai for it

[cinder karma]

It's not something you do unless you love it.

[thick pivot]

to be fair, so is for some devs, particularly gamedevs

but at least your job cant be automated

[edgy lark]

When I was working on my game I would do 10h a day every day lmao

But it's passion, something you want to do yourself
I mean in my case at least, idk when working for a company

[jade schooner]

Eventually companies will get to the find out part. They're in the screw around phase and realized no juniors means no one to replace seniors when they retire. Actually a few places are already dealing with that.

[cinder karma]

We automate more and more every day. That's ||part of my job :p||

[thick pivot]

companies are more itnerested in short term gians than long term, unfortuantely

[cinder karma]

Not with AI though

[thick pivot]

theres the fear that they will train juniors and then those juniors will elave for a higher paying job once theyre seniors

and ai companies keep talking like full agi is gonna roll out any minute now, replacing even seniors

no one is asking how much it will cost lmao

[jade schooner]

that gets into a whole discussion on companies no longer really investing into juniors as much as they used to, to increase profit. Which loses the company loyalty to the point where the best strategy is to job hop every 5ish years

[thick pivot]

late stage capitalism

[strange copper]

Im ngl even as a junior engineer i think you should not be fully replaceable by AI

[thick pivot]

why be loyal to compnaies which have mass layoffs every year? why train juniros when they're not loyal? it's a cycle at this point

[strange copper]

But i agree about lack of investment into junior engineers in general

[edgy lark]

Is it even possible to completely replace someone with ai?
Am I too naive to believe some things are not possible to do with ai?

[thick pivot]

of course it is

idk how it is in your coutnry, but in mine now even small shops have repalced cacheirs with machines

[jade schooner]

I mean humans have been making work with easier through technology and automation for centuries.

The only question is time.

[thick pivot]

you wetn from hiring 5 cachiers, to hiring 1 to oversee the machines

and the same is now happening in programming

[edgy lark]

Mine only certain shops, but they're like 2/3 are humans and 1/3 are bots
BCS here like 2/3 of population alre elderly and they are afraid of using them

[thick pivot]

with ai you can repalce 4/5 juniors, because 1 juniro can generate lots of code. it will contian errros of course, but so would the code of the 4 repalced juniors

[edgy lark]

Factorio irl

Bots automation unlocked: next stage roboports

[jade schooner]

Hand plow to horse plow to tractor. Invention has been giving 1 person the ability to do the job of many for years. Eventually it will happen to everything....

[strange copper]

I feel a junior engineer should possess enough reasoning and engineering skills such that the current state of genai cannot fully replace them

[thick pivot]

should being the keyword here

most universities dont release graduates at that point unfortunately

[strange copper]

A cs degree is not a software engineering degree

[thick pivot]

they focus on general knowledge, they don't have you makign enterprise-level apps the whole time you study

[strange copper]

I dont think universities need to teach whatever the new hot js framework is

[cinder karma]

So most of my friends are CS. Most of them went to very rigorous schools

I was....pretty shocked to get to "the real world" and realize it wasn't like that

[thick pivot]

yup

[strange copper]

The real world has gotta be 50% crud apps lol

[cinder karma]

It really is.

Otoh, in that other half, there is a lot of really fun stuff

[thick pivot]

the worst part is, even if the schools were teaching real world stuff, all job offers still demand 5 years commercial experience

its brutal out there

[cinder karma]

(Again, just drawing from friends, I would not consider any of their employers "crud apps")

[strange copper]

Yeah i got into cs because I like building things, not to select star from where

So im happy I get to do more than that at work lol

[thick pivot]

i have a friend who jsut started uni and she said they were literally warned by schools to avoid programming, translation and economics because of how hard it is to find a job as a junior there

[strange copper]

it's like the opposite of when they said everyone should get a cs degree

[thick pivot]

ikr? the irony!

[cinder karma]

I'm pretty surprised to hear that tbh

[strange copper]

give it 2 yeras and maybe it'll reverse again

[thick pivot]

i was unemployed for 6 motnhs because i had "only" 2 years of commercial dev exprience

my cv was rejected by over 120 companies

and i was asked about ai on every interview. the answer they liked the most was "Ai is great at speeding up the workflow, but it's necessary to carefully review its code for bugs and bad coding practices"

[strange copper]

that sounds about right

interviewing to me just feels like guessing at what the other person wants to hear

[thick pivot]

yeah. but i've gotta say the technical itnerviews have gotten way harder

the expectations are higher

so yeah, ai (but also india gaining better internet access and the work being outsourced there) has made it a much less profitable career chocie than it was 5-10 years ago

everyone's saying that trades are more valuable nowadays, so I think being ana electrician is an excellent future-proof job

[cinder karma]

(Hah. Electrical engineers are not electricans)

[thick pivot]

ahh

[cyan shadow]

(India's been an outsourcing hub for 20+ years now, that's not new)

Villages have better internet now, so the main change is that people can work from their ancestral home instead of moving to the cities for work

Parents work in IT, they were in the thick of the outsourcing movement back in the 90s. Great fun for them, lol, they travelled all over the world because of it

[thick pivot]

i guess to me it feels recent, because i got laid off twice in ym life after the comany decided to move my position to india. i dont get why they didnt do so from the start, something msut've changed along the way

[cyan shadow]

Probably the red tape in India for foreign entities to set up shop - it wasn't very lucrative for smaller companies until the government set up special economic zones and introduced tax breaks and such

I'm familiar with Indian company law and banking law and the regulations for foreign companies have always been quite strict

[thick pivot]

ah

[cyan shadow]

My parents worked for massive MNCs back in the day, those guys already had the resources to get a foot in the door

Of course, there's stiff local competition now to the outsourced roles, but foreign companies remain a popular choice because the names look good on a CV

Mom works for a local company now, better pay and better benefits

[thick pivot]

its the opposite in my country. foreign companies give better pay and working conditions, local companies are known for being awful

[cyan shadow]

Ironically, my mom had a problem with toxic work environments and shit pay at an American MNC

Moving to an Indian company helped so much

She's now senior enough to feel comfy transitioning to startups, so she's having the time of her life

[thick pivot]

that's awesome!

[cyan shadow]

Yeah! She really likes it, although it's a bit weird working with people younger than her daughter (me)

[long verge]

I saw that some people here bought a framework laptop ?
Any feedbacks ?

[crystal wren]

I think at least... 3 of us own one now?

[long verge]

Are you satisfied with it/which one did u choose ?

Because it seems quite expensive but I think it’s better in long term, so I’m considering buying one

[crystal wren]

Very happy, especially considering I got in with one of the factory seconds Framework 13s. It was something like $499 or $599 for the 11th gen Intel i7 without RAM or SSD?

Since then I've upgraded to the Ryzen 7000, and got the newer screen.

[rain apex]

It's alright yeah

I also have a 11th gen intel framework 13

The only issue i had with it is that the fans get hella dusty

[marble jewel]

Just cover it up with tape, and then you'll have no dust /s

[rain apex]

See i tried several times to like

Unplug the fan to clean the dust properly

But it is stuck on so tight and i was afraid of using too much force

So i just compress air it

[long verge]

Since the whole laptop is removable it shouldn’t be an issue right ? I mean it’s easy to clean it

?

[cursive sigil]

Yes if you remove the laptop there's nothing to clean

[safe dragon]

I love mine

the fancier display for the 13 inch is very good as well would recommend

[marble jewel]

Someone needs to be getting referral codes or something. Do they do that?

[crystal wren]

Though it did ruin other screens for you...

[marble jewel]

Petition to rename #programmers-off-topic to #framework-laptop-off-topic

[rain apex]

I suspect it's partly my room but i just have to clean it very frequently

[ivory shadow]

I still think #programmers-off-topic would be more accurate

And I really like my Framework 16

[safe dragon]

it did but I've decided to pretend it didn't and not buy 4k monitors

[cursive sigil]

This seems to be an abusive relationship. It destroys your property but you say you love it and pretend it didn't happen

[ivory shadow]

I do wish the screen on my 16 got dimmer, but I think a change for that is coming eventually and has already hit the 13

[fleet wren]

having a laptop is cool, I should have one some day

[ivory shadow]

It's very nice not being tethered to my desk. Having a backup computer is also nice if I run into any issues

[long verge]

It's very nice not being tethered to my desk
Yeah that's the reason i want one

[safe dragon]

mine is almost solely for when I'm not home

all the places where I was forced to use my iPad and cry

[long verge]

Did u have any issues with factory second ?

[crystal wren]

This is the one problem. One of the captive screws feels like it never gets fully loosened. It does and it opens up and fully tightens fine, so it's hardly a big deal.

And it was so minor and had no side effects, I just didn't bother telling them.

[safe dragon]

sue framework for this completely unusable laptop

[long verge]

I think I'll go with :

7640U DIY :
AMD Ryzen™ 5 7640U (up to 4.9GHz, 6-core/12-thread)
Battery - 55Wh
Webcam Module (1st Gen)
13.5" 2256x1504 60Hz matte display

Expensions :
1 USB-C
2 USB-A
1 HDMI

RAM : I'll use my PC's Corsair Vengeance 32Go DDR4 (Switching to DDR5 on my PC)
Storage : Seagate Firecuda 530 2To SSD

[crystal wren]

Don't forget they're SODIMMs on the laptop, so you won't be using your PC's RAM!

Well, unless you have a PC that uses those for some reason. Which does happen.

[long verge]

I forgor

Including SODIMMs that would cost me around 1200€

I'll propably go with a linux distro since I won't be gaming a lot on it

[ivory shadow]

Definitely make sure to check prices for the charger, RAM, and storage from other sources. I saved a lot of money that way on mine

[crystal wren]

And definitely don't get the RAM direct from Framework. Their markup is genuinely close to ltierally double sometimes.

The charger is... actually not a terrible value/price, but you can also definitely get cheaper elsewhere.

[long verge]

Yeah that's why I'm going with DIY

The 2TB storage is +80€ compared to seagate

and the ram looks expensive too

[marble jewel]

Only go with the barest of bones

[long verge]

I still have an old 45W charger in almost perfect condition i guess I'll stick to it

[crystal wren]

I think they recommend at least 60W? And that was for the old 11th gen Intel if I recall. Not sure how different that is for the Ryzen ones.

[cinder karma]

Just make up the difference yourswld

[long verge]

I can definitely buy a new one anyway it’s within my budget

Thanks everyone for your feedbacks btw

[marble jewel]

Is there such a thing as Framework laptops using ARM?

[crystal wren]

They have that...

https://frame.work/gb/en/products/deep-computing-risc-v-mainboard

So no, but closer than x86 I guess.

[marble jewel]

Ah, it'll be awhile before I have a laptop-buying decision to make, but I hope by that time ARM becomes an option

[crystal wren]

I have to imagine they want a, say, Snapdragon variant.

[marble jewel]

I've sort of come to expect full-day of usage to come from my mobile devices (which I include laptops in that mix)

[long verge]

RISC-V

[cinder karma]

I expect about 20min from a laptop tbh

[crystal wren]

I've never used an Apple device for longer than an hour, so fortunately I haven't been spoiled in that regard.

[long verge]

Reminds me some horrible homeworks

[marble jewel]

Yeah, it's the one thing they've done quite well

[sand frost]

My current laptop is good for a full day (and I work bizarre and long hours)

It's honestly really nice

My previous laptop needed a charge at some point during the day, but it also is on the battery's last legs

[safe dragon]

my framework laptop lasts like 9 ish hours with normal use for me

aka watching videos mostly

[cinder karma]

I have my laptop on the charger 24/7

[long verge]

As long as my phone last 4 hours I’m satisfied

[safe dragon]

my laptop rarely goes more than 1 meter from an outlet

[marble jewel]

I need all my mobile devices to be able to stream the LOTR trilogy on 5g data with full brightness every day on battery

Because you never know

[safe dragon]

understandable

[cursive sigil]

extended edition only

[marble jewel]

of course

[cursive sigil]

of course

[safe dragon]

for when you're stuck in several flights to the other side of the world in a row while also never having access to charging

[marble jewel]

Happens all the time

[safe dragon]

I've only ever seen the extended edition of LOTR so I actually have no idea what it's like otherwise

[worn remnant]

👀 i did not know about this

[cinder karma]

Yes because I can totally fly on a plane this decade that doesn't have chargers

[long verge]

Fair

[safe dragon]

well European budget airlines sometimes don't but really then your flight would never be longer than like 4 hours

[sand frost]

I've been on planes w/o chargers

Recently

Maybe I'm dumb and didn't search hard enough but I'm pretty sure

[marble jewel]

Most of the planes I go on have chargers, but I only provide clean, certified free-range, organic energy to my devices

[pliant snow]

changing your phone off of 87 potatoes wired in series

[safe dragon]

free range energy

the electrons were let into the fields to graze

[devout vault]

Maybe they broke. Not like you can go and ask for an exchange once you board the plane and take off.

[devout vault]

You are now obligated to provide us a tier list of "natural and healthy" energy sources to "artificial and yucky" energy sources

[marble jewel]

I don't trust in the practices of "big energy" so mine is all home grown

[devout vault]

How home grown are we talking? Where on the "putting solar panels and mini windmills on your roof" home grown to the "I build everything from scratch and also get the materials for them, time to go the mines" home grown scale do you lie

[dusty pollen]

I charge my laptop using positive vibes

[devout vault]

I guess your battery never lasts long considering electrons have negative charge

Clearly we need to invent negative vibe generators. Two benefits:

• It burns up the negative vibes, leaving room for positive vibes
• We can literally power our lives with spite.*

* Unless you don't have a spiteful bone in your body like me

[fleet wren]

first half of monster inc

[devout vault]

Darn, there goes my originality license

[dusty pollen]

my batteries run entirely using positive ions akchually

[safe dragon]

mine doesn't have legs idk how it'd run

[dusty pollen]

is your refrigerator running

[safe dragon]

well that one does have legs

but thankfully not

I'm being a little liberal with my interpretation of legs

it has adjustable feet

[dusty pollen]

9v batteries use the little terminals to run ofc

[devout vault]

Since the feet are adjustable it still counts, that's what legs are for

Can't walk with feet that are just stuck on the bottom of your chest and can't move after all

[safe dragon]

"what has feet but no legs"

[fleet wren]

the imperial measurement system

[devout vault]

<insert nsfw joke here>

[devout vault]

We just need something new to measure to invent units for, we'll get to it

Maybe some sort of FTL measurement?

[fleet wren]

the astronomical unit counts ngl

[safe dragon]

In the Imperial system, steel angles are measured in inches, using the format L [Leg 1] × [Leg 2] × [Thickness]. For example, an angle with equal legs and a thickness of 1/4 inch is noted as L 2×2×1/4. If the legs are unequal, the format would be L [Leg 1] × [Leg 2] × [Thickness].

hmmm

closest I can find

[devout vault]

...what's a steel angle

Is this like a specialized angle only possible using steel, or are we stealing angles from other people

[safe dragon]

https://www.servicesteel.org/resources/steel-angle-basics

steel with an angle

[devout vault]

If I steal a steel angle can I call it my steal steel angle

If I have to prepare myself mentally to do so, am I steeling to steal a steel angle

[safe dragon]

[cursive sigil]

You should steel yourself to steal a stolen steel angle

[sand frost]

Legs are still legs in metric tho

That’s just a feature of angles

[safe dragon]

yeah

unfortunate

the imperial system needs more legs

[dusty pollen]

from now on, leg is a measure of code cursedness

[safe dragon]

"damn that's code got legs"

[dusty pollen]

naturally, it's a logarithmic scale

where (n+1) legs is equivalent to n legs twice

[ivory shadow]

This is absolutely cursed

[dusty pollen]

how many legs though

[ivory shadow]

O(n^2)

[dusty pollen]

that's not a number of legs

I rate this idea 3 legs

[ivory shadow]

I couldn't possibly determine the number of legs so quickly. That's computationally complex, it is

[safe dragon]

the leg algorithm

[devout vault]

If your code doesn't run fast enough, just add more legs. It's that easy

[safe dragon]

but can the number of legs be verified in polynomial time

[dusty pollen]

legs is P but not NP

[devout vault]

If your code isn't biologically considered a billipede (a totally scientific classification super set consisting of centipedes, millipedes, and anything else with Too Many Legs ™️), then I don't want to hear about it

Also I googled millipede vs centipede and uh...

Centipedes, on the other hand, [...] are carnivorous predators that use venom to subdue prey
Thanks, as if they weren't bad enough already

[safe dragon]

oh yeah amazonian giant centipedes are the closest nature has ever gotten to a true hell creature

[devout vault]

So, if I ever get asked "would you rather face a giant millipede or giant centipede" (giant = tall as a building or something) I guess I now have an answer

[safe dragon]

yeah centipedes are way worse

[devout vault]

Jsut googled, am horrified, thanks

So horrified I can't spell "just" properly, apparently

[safe dragon]

just so you know, they're also really fast

[devout vault]

Oh, lovely. Just the knowledge I wanted to add to my nightmare tonight

(Pretending any of my dreams are ever mundane enough for giant centipedes to be a thing)

("Are you saying a building-sized centipede would be considered mundane in your dreams?" Yes, yes I am)

(It'd need lasers or magic or something to fit in)

[safe dragon]

😌

[fleet wren]

some centipedes are even big enough to target vertebrates
that's scary to me, like how are you eating more evolved creatures

[devout vault]

...great, now I'm picturing giant centipede androids

....basically the destroyer of worlds from Terraria, huh

[devout vault]

<insert joke about when you eat pineapple it eats you back>

[safe dragon]

but who's more evolved

humans or pineapples

pineapples are unbelievably delicious

[devout vault]

Good question. Maybe pineapples are so highly evolved we simply can't see their sophistication

But it works either way - if we're more evolved, pineapples eat us back. If they're more evolved, we're eating them to begin with

...I really need to restart discord. Why is it taking 2GB of RAM (besides being Electron), and is that the cause of expanding an image taking a few seconds to work, and then a few seconds to close again.

But alas,

[safe dragon]

the evil little download icon

threatening you for what's to come

[devout vault]

It's the "enshittification incoming" warning indicator

[safe dragon]

it's either that or nothing changed

[devout vault]

Or 40 new things in the shop (actually that might not need an update based on seeing new stuff from time to time when I ahven't updated)

[pliant snow]

you need those rainbow role colors

[devout vault]

Rainbow role colors?

Is that a thing now?

(I do recall years ago this server having the junimo role constantly changing color or something like that)

Also: Amazing, 10/10. Perfect license as well.
https://github.com/Zorokee/ArtificialCast

[cinder karma]

Vibes

[dusty pollen]

every few years we reinvent javascript

[cinder karma]

Times used xxd for work ++

[fleet wren]

not sure if better or worse than globally unique blockchain pointers

I suppose they're both satire pieces directed towards the contemporary tech bubble that wall street is throwing millions of dollars away for

[lethal walrus]

I should really download a proper hex editor.. I've always just used the vscode extension one

[rain apex]

what des the LLM add

bogus data??

[cinder karma]

Pls Google coconut crab

Actually maybe don't

[dusty pollen]

I believe they do the type casting by asking the LLM? iirc

[devout vault]

Thanks, windows...

Well, at least discord can expand images instantly again

[cinder karma]

pufferthink