programmers-off-topic

[crystal wren]

...okay, that's glorious.

[safe dragon]

perfect

[dusty pollen]

atra stop what if they hear you

[safe dragon]

"did you see their license plate number before they raced away"

oh yes it was "😄😭 💫 75🐴"

[dusty pollen]

do you really want to see a cybertruck with the license plate 💯😤💎🙏

[safe dragon]

should have 🚀

[dusty pollen]

pretty sure here in the UK it can also be used for cars from 2019 Q3 and Q4, just move here, ez

[ivory shadow]

[safe dragon]

shame

[sonic mirage]

The hand print is supposed to be for a "kids" plate, apparently

[safe dragon]

ah for driving children

[ivory shadow]

Hmm, 42069 is allowed if there are letters with it

[safe dragon]

69W420L

[thin estuary]

What a bad win-lose ratio

[safe dragon]

[cinder karma]

Lol I'm an engineer remember

[safe dragon]

.xkcd 435

is it disabled

had to google like a pleb

Can't believe I'm saying this but I'm starting to understand people who like touchpads

[marble jewel]

You monster

Does it support multi-touch gestures? Those I can understand.

[safe dragon]

oh yeah without that I'd still hate them

I still don't like them on windows at all but on niri rn it's just so nice using the 3 finger gesture to scroll between my windows and workspaces

makes it usable that I only have 1 screen to work with

[marble jewel]

I'm still in the middle of my journey to become proficient at pure-keyboard navigation

Resisting the temptation to reach over to my mouse as much as possible

Actually, here is one of the places that sort of forces me to abandon that goal. Unless there's an easy way to switch between servers/channels that I haven't found yet.

[safe dragon]

on discord?

there's quite a few keybinds for stuff like that (type Ctrl / to see them)

[crystal wren]

There is Ctrl + K, but it's hardly perfect.

[marble jewel]

Yeah, when Discord has focus, can I easily navigate around while keeping my fingers firmly planted on the home row

(and only slightly extending up/down) is the idea

[safe dragon]

outside of programming I do most things with mouse still

[marble jewel]

I've got window navigation mostly down, and browser navigation, which covers what I'm doing most of the time

[safe dragon]

browser navigation even

you used some vim keybinds thing right

[marble jewel]

Yeah, I'm using Vimium-C

And it does a pretty good job

It breaks on sites with poor accessibility though, like NexusMods doesn't work with it

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6359 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1367234451033161850)

[sonic mirage]

Yeah on my MacBook I always redid the gestures with the third party BetterTouchTool so I can do 3 and 4 finger gestures to actually get around fluidly

[safe dragon]

4 fingers does nothing in niri it seems...

what could I make it do...

nothing it seems

[marble jewel]

In Apple land four fingers down is basically show desktop

It can be a maximize/restore/minimize type gesture

[sonic mirage]

I think I had 3 fingers to go between tabs and 4 fingers to go between desktops. Then 4 fingers up was Launchpad I think

Or maybe pinch did that

3+ finger pinch

[marble jewel]

Yeah pinch for me shows all the windows on one screen

[safe dragon]

not really as relevant on niri

[sonic mirage]

I didn't think the MacOS I'm running has "show all desktops". I'll have to check my config later

[safe dragon]

don't think niri even has a "show all workspaces" kind of screen without plugins...

[sonic mirage]

I'm on like 10.13 or something still

It's basically my fourth (lowest res) monitor, and my only non-VPN'd screen during the work day

Basically just does Spotify and sometimes Discord

[sand frost]

I feel like I don’t have the dexterity for those motions

[devout vault]

I'm still of the opinion that modern technology is basically magic, so yes.

Create or Destroy Water? Humidifiers and Dehumidifiers (These might be backwards actually)
Sending stones? Smart phones and the internet.
Fireball? Nukes.

[cinder karma]

Google AI gave me the most hilariously bad hallucination today

Ah, yes, my Linux only tool chain accepts powershell commands yes

Perfect 10/10 no notes

[devout vault]

Atra why have you changed your name again. Why would you do this to me

At least the name color didn't change too, then I'd be really lost.

(I used to have compact mode user avatars on but apparently it turned itself off yet again...)

....Am I gaslighting myself, I can't find the setting to turn it on

[cinder karma]

God I hate ai hallucinations

[devout vault]

Isn't that all AI does? It's just that sometimes like real hallucinations, they might make sense

(Until you look closely)

[frosty echo]

"Hide user avatars" in the Appearance section

[devout vault]

Thank you

I blame the semi-recent discord redesign

[rain apex]

there a new option to have smol avatars

[worn remnant]

i use Default for Chat Message Display, which is unusual for me, because i prefer how it groups consecutive messages under one instance of username instead of repeating username every line

[pliant snow]

Just install powershell smh

[dusty pollen]

my fave is still my stardew one about rafts and lanterns. It went into so much detail

[devout vault]

I don't think I've seen that one

Given that there is code for that sort of thing unused in the game, I'm not surprised though

[cinder karma]

If you want to know how my work day has gone, well

Debugging "why you no include file?" is no fun

[merry tide]

how do you learn to code mods/games and stuff or are there any resources anyone would reccomend?

[marble jewel]

If you want to learn how to do C# modding, you'll eventually have to learn C#, but you can't really go wrong learning any programming language because the main concepts stay relevant

[pliant snow]

Yeah, if you want to mod a game, you'll need to look into what tools exist for that specific game. For new games, I'd start looking at learning the popular game engines like Godot or Unity

[devout vault]

@cinder karma Certain types have manual wrappers for Java instead of being autogenerated. Here's Span (there is no ReadOnlySpan, this tool is old).
https://github.com/spaceflint7/bluebonnet/blob/master/Baselib/src/System/Span.cs

[cinder karma]

Incidentally, Casey, I'm learning lisp

Kill me now

It's for work

[devout vault]

I don't understand spans (and more specifically how/when to use them) enough to make a ROS version

[devout vault]

Don't you mean (kill ((me) (now)))? (Lisp is the one that's crazy about parenthesis, right?)

[cinder karma]

So the thing is a Span is literally just a pointer and a length

[devout vault]

That's why I added the "more specifically" part

Plus I've never really used pointers in C# besides copy+pasting

[devout vault]

And the funny thing is, I expected this to be the easy part.
After this is integrating MSBuild and Gradle to work together for being able to make mods without it being a gigantic pain every compile.

(Gradle is one of the build systems for Java, and the one that minecraft modding tends to use)

[cinder karma]

https://github.com/spaceflint7/bluebonnet/blob/9c443eefe32087985a43595da0131cd2a539a262/Baselib/src/System/Span.cs#L70

This is interesting, it appears to support the stackalloc usage of span

Tbh I've only barely used pointers in c#, lol

A span is nicer to use

As for why you would use one, ROS is a good way to get a view on something without making an actual copy

But tbh is things like this that make me doubt I would use a c# to Java converter

It's just so different

I went through a minor rabbit hole with jvm pointers...last night?

[devout vault]

I wouldn't either, generally. The only reason I would is for Minecraft modding 😛

I half wonder if a JVM <-> LLVM and LLVM <-> C# combo would work better out of the box

It'd be fine if the resulting C# code to use the Java code is atrocious, I can make a source generator to wrap stuff easier than I can do... whatever nonsense I have to do to finish fixing bluebonnet

[cinder karma]

Can you make a source generator for java

Honest question

[devout vault]

I mean, technically you could just parse and output .java files yourself 😛

Not sure if there are any libraries for it though

[cinder karma]

At work I have insane numbers of python scripts that exist to parse verilog and write slightly different verilog

[devout vault]

I meant doing a source generator in C# over the generated Java bridge code though

[cinder karma]

Like

I dislike writing verilog that badly

It's so repetitive and verbose

[devout vault]

I just found a reddit thread that says it has 283 comments but is only showing one... what

Aren't removed comments supposed to at least show up and say [deleted] or something

[dusty pollen]

so I was looking for a page about said unused code and looked up "stardew raft and lantern" and it decided it must be a decorative item and made up a whole description of how it works and where to buy it etc

[worn remnant]

the thing i continually can't ignore about all these AI slop writings is how much they sound like middle/high school term paper assignments. stuff like the "in conclusion, syria is a land of contrasts" on this one where they put in the summary bullet points that pointlessly rephrase the thing they already said, or the other feature where they plagiarize a bunch of text and swap all the verbs around so teacher won't notice.
oh, and being incorrect, of course. classic teenager behavior /lh

[pliant snow]

In this article I will be discussing how Syria is a land of contrasts

[dusty pollen]

that hallucination is also brilliant proofs that it finds its “citations” backwards (come up with answer first, find matching citations for the answer afterwards) because none of the four pages linked said anything that the AI said, obviously

[safe dragon]

technically it comes up first with whichever comes first in the text

[cinder karma]

This is also how undergrads operate

[safe dragon]

I forego the citation

[safe dragon]

says the guy who's been yelling at everyone to use minimal apis for several years now

[pliant snow]

What a strange title

all minimal APIs are finally production ready

[safe dragon]

minimal api is a specific term for a way to write apis in C# if that's your confusion

essentially minimal apis work the way almost every other web api framework outside C# handles them instead of controller classes

I did find it interesting that he didn't capitalize production-ready

[pliant snow]

oh

what a stupid name

[safe dragon]

they're "minimal" because they require much less code and setup

they're also faster and more memory efficient

but they have a few limitations

what this clickbait seems to be about is support for source generated validators for minimal apis

which is actually quite nice and exciting

[frosty echo]

Anyone here with an Android device and two mice they can connect to it at once, to do an experiment for me?

[safe dragon]

I honestly had no idea that was possible

[frosty echo]

Yes, it works, but a little odd, and I'm hoping someone else can try to verify

[rain apex]

2 mouse...

[supple ether]

all devices can have multiple mice connected to them, the question is whether or not there's API access to input HID ids

windows input api supports it but I've never seen anyone actually use it

[crystal wren]

Are... are you trying to test multi-touch gestures with multiple mice instead of traditional touch input or something?

[safe dragon]

.NET MAUI getting that advanced feature set

I'm very surprised but they are actually fixing 1 of the major problems with blazor with .net 10

never mind, I was confusing two things

The thing I thought it was is in fact still an open issue

has been open for 6 entire years with seemingly nothing being done

a story

Even though I don't use blazor anymore I like to go back to this github issue every year or so and just look at how it's been moved to yet another new .NET milestone

[marble jewel]

Today in my split-keyboard journey, I’m experimenting with a tented typing angle

It was surprisingly easy to adjust to, I was worried it would feel weird, but it's actually pretty comfortable

[frosty echo]

No, nothing like that, I wouldn't expect that to work

[safe dragon]

I use tenting for a fair while but eventually stopped

[marble jewel]

Out of curiosity, what made you stop? Was it just inconvenient or did something else bother you?

[safe dragon]

I kept having to deal with it getting wobbly again all of a sudden

[marble jewel]

I anticipate, the thing that's going to be the most annoying to deal with is if I get too used to my custom keyboard setup, and then have to go back to using a regular keyboard for any reason

The Voyager has a neat feature where tenting is accomplished using magnets and a camera mount

[safe dragon]

I've never really had issues surprisingly

well

I can't programing without this keyboard without feeling miserable

but normal usage is actually fine

[cinder karma]

It's bad enough when I have to take over the workstation of a coworker

[marble jewel]

My tents are actually two individual camera tripods that just happen to fit this format factor perfectly, so if they ever failed for any reason, I could replace either of them on their own

I also hate having to temporarily use someone else's keyboard covered in cheeto dust

[cinder karma]

It's not the keyboard

We are all issued regulation keyboards

It's the sudden lack of my terminal niceities

[safe dragon]

... regulation keyboards?

wow

[marble jewel]

I remember back in the days, I used to keep a thumb drive with a bunch of portable apps and my personal config

It was my travel personal setup

[safe dragon]

I think our security officer would tackle me and burn down my house if he ever found out I dared to have a thumb drive within a 1 mile radius of my work laptop

[marble jewel]

Oh yeah, they're not allowed in my workplace

[safe dragon]

we do have fairly strict regulation on bringing devices (especially internet capable ones) to work

[marble jewel]

I can only install approved software. Even chrome extensions are all blocked except for specific ones.

[safe dragon]

wow

I'm not being controlled that much

I have admin access to my laptop

[marble jewel]

They technically restrict vscode extensions, but the workaround is to just create a new profile.

Only the default profile prevents me from installing extensions.

[safe dragon]

it's gotta be miserable to develop software without admin access

[marble jewel]

Yes

I ran into an issue where my own software was blocked

Literally I couldn't compile my own code to run it

[rain apex]

What do u do if u need sudo then

Do u just perish

[safe dragon]

log in as root

ez

[safe dragon]

ah that reminds me of when we rolled out a "highly trained and personalized firewall" and it proceeded to block every build pipeline and shut down half our servers

[marble jewel]

We had a similar thing happen. Aggressive firewall blocking our own internal sites.

[rain apex]

I heard story about ppl whose company got bought

And then their stuff is blocked by the new company's firewall

No dev for several months

[marble jewel]

The firewall here operates on a whitelist basis, so everything is blocked until it's approved

[safe dragon]

that's more normal honestly

[marble jewel]

Also the firewall is mandatory even if I use the laptop from home. All internet is blocked unless it's through the company's VPN.

I mean it makes sense, and it's a company device, but some people used their laptop for things they probably shouldn't have, and complained

I'm just glad they let me plug my own keyboard in

[safe dragon]

had IT at my old job angrily tell me about a past employee who had laptop issues and when they checked he had like... an entire media and video streaming suite installed

[marble jewel]

I guess if you're just not someone who owns a laptop, and you don't realize the value of owning one until work issues you one, I can see how that happens

[safe dragon]

the main thing I loathe is antivirus programs making so many applications orders of magnitude slower because it spends 7 months every time analyzing every single temp file they create or access

[marble jewel]

I have several computers and portable computing devices, I don't need to use my work laptop for anything other than work, nor would I want to since I'm unable to customize it to my liking

[safe dragon]

I had a beastly workstation laptop at my old job with a new i9 and 64 gb of ram and a quadro gpu for some reason

and it was slow as shit

visual studio barely worked

having resharper on would crash on some projects

[marble jewel]

I don't seem to have that problem, but the firewall makes even fast internet painfully slow

Since everyone connects to VPN whether they're on site or not, it sometimes gets bogged down to the point of feeling like old internet

[safe dragon]

maybe your job has some of the directories they use for their temp files whitelisted...

we asked but they refused

[marble jewel]

One really crippling decision they made at one point was that anyone off-shore could only access our systems via thin clients, and for my group that made it impossible for them to do their work

The thin clients were resourced so low that it could barely open VS

[safe dragon]

I'd say the majority of people at my job connect through a citrix environment but as a dev I am exempted from this for most I do which I am very thankful of

[marble jewel]

It was like programming on a powerpoint presentation

[safe dragon]

exciting

[rain apex]

I find it hard to use more than 1 device at a time

[marble jewel]

I think what we ended up doing was creating Windows VMs specifically for their purpose which worked better

[rain apex]

My tablet gathering dust rn

[open garden]

Hey Everyone. I've been thinking about trying to learn a little c# lately, but I noticed that visual studio is not available for mac (all I have unfortunately) Do you have any other programs that would be good for someone who already enjoys the layout of VScode and which has a lot of plug ins?

[marble jewel]

You can use VSCode

[safe dragon]

well, use vscode

[rain apex]

Vscode c# kind of sucks

[fleet wren]

vim

[safe dragon]

vscode was the official recommended replacement for mac users

[marble jewel]

Alternatively, my tool of choice would be Rider, but it's not like VSCode at all

[safe dragon]

if it's for personal use, JetBrains Rider is free to use as well so give it a shot

[rain apex]

Source: i use it

[marble jewel]

Echo? echo.. echo... lol

[safe dragon]

jetbrains ides have pretty good extension marketplaces

[open garden]

I read somewhere that vs code is very poor for c#. For some reason I can't open dll(?) in it either

[marble jewel]

You don't open DLLs in an editor

[open garden]

Oh

[rain apex]

That said it's fine for basic things, everything is solvable if u just write csproj by hand

If u r asking for mod stuff then #making-mods-general

[marble jewel]

DLLs can be decompiled back into code, but it's not perfect

[safe dragon]

I mean... I do reference dlls in my project and then go to definition into them for one of my work projects fairly regularly

[marble jewel]

Your code turns into DLLs

[open garden]

I'm more so looking at visual studio type apps because the free c# tutorials I've found seem to use it

[rain apex]

Yeah bc most tutorials assume you are on windows

[marble jewel]

Since C# is a Microsoft language, a lot of the tutorials around them will probably use Visual Studio

[rain apex]

And VS community is free yep

[dusty pollen]

for some reason I remember doing this a very, very long time ago…

[open garden]

So would I need to unpack a dll every time I edit it if I use vscode?

[marble jewel]

No, you reopen the source code

Code to DLL is technically a one-direction operation. Decompiling is not a perfect way to get back to code.

[dusty pollen]

skill issue. do a proof-based subject, nerds

[safe dragon]

while it is very different, jetbrains rider will be the closest in experience to visual studio...

[rain apex]

You write .cs files and then compile them

[marble jewel]

Assuming you have source code to begin with, you continue to work off of that source code any time you need to do further development.

[safe dragon]

you never edit a dll... unless you're doing funky shit

[marble jewel]

Think of it like baking a cake with ingredients, you wouldn't turn a cake back into flour, water, egg, etc.

[rain apex]

If u have a dll but no source for some reason you can decompile and fix it up to become compilable but that's not the usual thing

[marble jewel]

dll is cake, flour, water, egg is source code.

[safe dragon]

it certainly wouldn't be something you'd be doing as a beginner

[open garden]

Ok. Thats good to know. I probably need to learn more about programming before I ask more questions. I guess I'll just search the best VS alternative, since I do want to make learning even a little bit of c# as easy as possible

[marble jewel]

On Mac Rider is probably the best alternative

[safe dragon]

just try rider

[open garden]

I'll look it up, thanks

[marble jewel]

If you want to watch any videos, Nick Chapsas has some about C# and Rider

[safe dragon]

it's free for non-commerical use so you should be fine

[open garden]

I'll take a look on yt

[safe dragon]

though I don't think nick does absolute beginner content

[marble jewel]

True, he has one talking about differences between VS and Rider though, so that might help for comparison

[safe dragon]

though Rider has completely changed UI layout since he made that video

[open garden]

What I was looking at for learning were some of those 4+ hour long free courses that have positive comments

[marble jewel]

There's a free online C# book that gets recommended a lot...

[crystal wren]

I think it's yellow in hue.

[open garden]

I think I started the one you are thinking of

[safe dragon]

I learnt C# in uni and never saw a single book for the language

"learnt". I scratched the surface

90% of C# I learnt on the job

[crystal wren]

I'm the worst person to ask for advice, because I just learned everything from random tinkering more or less...

[dusty pollen]

how many of you actually read it? because I sure as hell haven’t. I looked at some stardew mods and went

[open garden]

But I feel that watching a video to get the basics will be more entertaining in the beginning. I enjoy learning visually more than from text

[dusty pollen]

tbh I think that makes you the best person to ask for advice dh

[marble jewel]

https://www.robmiles.com/c-yellow-book

[cinder karma]

!yellowbook

[indigo mist]

A good book for learning c# is https://www.robmiles.com/c-yellow-book

To use this command, type !yellowbook.

[rain apex]

Just read CLRS

[crystal wren]

Not if you're asking for specific resources!

[cinder karma]

God this is me

[marble jewel]

Ah, I didn't know there was a command

[safe dragon]

I had uni assignments that were due and that was enough external motivation to write C# code

[dusty pollen]

because in my experience that’s the one method everyone who ends up good at languages actually uses

[safe dragon]

and then I got a job writing C# so I had even more motivation to do it...

[cinder karma]

You know I read much

[marble jewel]

I never learned from books because I already knew how to program, so picking up a new language wasn't very difficult

[dusty pollen]

it was recommended reading for some of my courses you could use the hardcover as a weapon

[safe dragon]

the base principals of programming don't change much between languages barring... exceptions

[cinder karma]

Oh clrs was my algorithms book

[marble jewel]

I really believe that anyone who gits gud at programming can pick up just about any language

[dusty pollen]

and no I never actually read any of it, it’s 1200 pages and that’s the older, shorter editions…

[crystal wren]

Master Cobol, become filthy rich.

[cinder karma]

I read all of it

[dusty pollen]

my mum was a cobol programmer, I keep telling her to get back into it

[safe dragon]

I googled clrs and got an algorithm book instead of me now know whoat on earth clrs stands for

[dusty pollen]

that is it

[safe dragon]

Cintroduction lo RalgorithmS

[dusty pollen]

clrs are the initials of the authors

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/scooby-doo-woof-bark-ruh-roh-gif-4303248

[safe dragon]

oh that's some nonsense

I did in fact use this very same book in my algorithms class

[dusty pollen]

because “intro to algorithms” isn’t very seo friendly

[safe dragon]

oh but 4 random letters is...

[dusty pollen]

at least it brings up specific results ig lmao

[marble jewel]

This is why I don't think learning a particular language is as important as just learning any of the modern programming languages very well

[cinder karma]

Try learning old one

[safe dragon]

start with prolog

[marble jewel]

Just don't pick Rust, that would be awful to learn as your first language /s

[cinder karma]

Fun atra facts

[dusty pollen]

also your friends are going to stop speaking to you /lh

[cinder karma]

I never went to lecture in algorithms class. I couldn't. My quantum mechanics class was at the same time

[dusty pollen]

you went to lectures?

[cinder karma]

I just watched the lecture videos and read the textbook and showed up for exams

[cinder karma]

For most of them!!!!

[safe dragon]

on a rational level I am aware I learnt how to write prolog since it was part of my uni curriculum but I no longer remember a single thing about it

[cinder karma]

No wonder none of y'all speak to me

[dusty pollen]

I feel like you and I did uni very differently

then again my mental health nearly made me drop out twice

[safe dragon]

I reached the end of the bachelor's just slightly before I reached burnout

[marble jewel]

How do you tell someone codes in Rust? They'll let you know /lh

[cinder karma]

I'm also working on becoming vegetarian

[safe dragon]

The only reason I graduated when I did was I knew that I would probably collapse mentally if I didn't graduate that quarter

there was something on the line

[marble jewel]

I'll bet most vegan jokes can turn into a Rust joke by just substituting one word

[cinder karma]

I'm also a long distance runner. All I need to do is start dunking my face in ice water

[marble jewel]

Water bucket challenge?

[fleet wren]

I use Rust btw

[safe dragon]

the ALS ice bucket challenge...

[dusty pollen]

are you using arch linux yet

[cinder karma]

I mean, yes and no

All I wanted was to be hard-core 😦

[cinder karma]

No

[safe dragon]

I'm on arch linux and use rust

well.. I suppose it's a bold claim that I use rust. I think about using rust

[cinder karma]

(I did not have an easy time in university either)

[safe dragon]

I don't think I've actually written a line of rust in the last 6 months

oh wait no I did it during advent of code for 1 day cause people didn't understand why the fuck my C# solution was beating all their rust solutions and asked me to run theirs and compare

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/nick-rivers-count-gif-23325353

[fleet wren]

the year of rust is coming any time now

[safe dragon]

I think rust is doin just fine

[marble jewel]

You know... if you claim that every year, you don't get to say you were right when it finally does happen 🙂

[safe dragon]

the year of linux gaming

the year of wayland

the year of linux desktop

[fleet wren]

the year of the linux des-

[safe dragon]

😌

[marble jewel]

It's really happening this time

Maybe a more achievable goal is the year of linux handheld

[safe dragon]

to be fair, linux has become vastly more popular since I started using it

primarily thanks to the steam deck

[marble jewel]

The year of Windows Server, lol no

[safe dragon]

which has resulted in a lot of people have a weirdly warped notion of how desirable steamos would be as a desktop operating system

[crystal wren]

Proton is some kind of weird magic, I swear. For me to get noticeably better performance via Proton than I did for a game on Windows is absurd to me.

[safe dragon]

all the tools behind proton border on witchcraft

[fleet wren]

srs mode: I feel like this is coming pretty close, which is amazing because even 5 years ago I would have laughed it off

[cinder karma]

Was it hashing

[fleet wren]

it's probably another 10 years away though 😌

[marble jewel]

Right around the corner

[safe dragon]

I was using shit like TensorPrimitives for simd optimizations

mine was faster just cause it was better optimized

the benefit of being highly familiar with a language

[safe dragon]

I mean honestly we are already kind of there

even desktops like linux mint are starting to introduce experimental wayland versions

[rain apex]

I updooted wayland or something and now electron programs flicker when i try to full screen them

[safe dragon]

first every desktop will be wayland and then 27 years later all applications people use will finally have native wayland builds

are you running electron programs through xwayland or are you using the --ozone-platform=wayland flag

[rain apex]

The flag

I needed that to type chinese

[fleet wren]

that flag straight up crashes any program I try it on

[safe dragon]

funnily for me the IME doesn't work on the wayland version of electron apps but does on the xwayland one

[fleet wren]

xwayland for the next 10 years for me

[rain apex]

Oh i think it cus i was like

Oh im supposed to get wayland fcitx5 now

So i had to do all this

[safe dragon]

IMEs on linux continue to confuse me

I also use fcitx5 and have some random environment flags I don't understand set up

[rain apex]

It will be year of wayland for me once i finally figure out how to get discord electron to use a real chinese font

[safe dragon]

it works on most things but then not on others

there's 3 version of some text-input protocol...

there's a lot of other random shit

a real chinese font?

[crystal wren]

Speaking of Discord and fonts... does Logo's name look strange for you on Linux? It looks hilariously strange for me.

[rain apex]

Yeah rn if im in english locale

It uses some funky ass simsun from 1999

And has wrong characters

[safe dragon]

who's logo

[rain apex]

If i switch to chinese it is finally use my system fonts but then im in chinese

[fleet wren]

It looks normal to me

[devout vault]

I've used this before for a game project: https://icculus.org/manymouse/
Unfortunately I couldn't find anything like it for keyboards

[crystal wren]

Meanwhile...

[rain apex]

I will check in 30mins

Oh yeah that is what it look like

[safe dragon]

who is that and how do I even find them

logo is giving no useful results

[rain apex]

.logo

[safe dragon]

oh they're a junimo

[crystal wren]

Yeah, they should be perfect circles.

[fleet wren]

my end

[safe dragon]

that looks more sensible

🅛🅞🅖🅞
\🅛\🅞\🅖\🅞

hrm

[rain apex]

I think it is probably same cause ultimately

Fonts borked or otherwise not confg correctly on wayland electron

[safe dragon]

the enclosed alphanumeric supplement unicode block...

guessing that's not part of discord's own font

it is odd that it's not round

[crystal wren]

It'll just be a stylistic choice by whoever made the typeface, but it's still annoying.

[safe dragon]

I suggest just using regular letters

[devout vault]

I suggest just switching back to windows /s

[cinder karma]

No

[devout vault]

TIL the email address standard technically supports comments (and nested ones, at that). What the heck

[marble jewel]

Next thing you're gonna tell me is that the email address standard also is a superset of json

[devout vault]

I mean, with the power of comments, you could include json in it (to some extent, I imagine certain strings could cancel the comments)...

[pliant snow]

the email address standard is turing complete

[devout vault]

I was googling this to see if you were being serious and even AI summary was calling me out on it being silly.

(I need to find a browser extension to turn that off)

[pliant snow]

append &udm=14 to the ends of your google searches

[devout vault]

You expect me to manually add that to my url after searching every time? 😛

Sounds doable through a custom search engine on firefox through an extension or something, thoough

I couldn't find anything about email addresses, but did find this, which is horrifying: https://www.toothycat.net/~hologram/Turing/HowItWorks.html

[pliant snow]

Yeah, I think an extension exists. I always use custom search shortcuts anyway (although i rarely use google anymore)

[devout vault]

(Since it didn't embed: Magic The Gathering is turing complete and that page is an example of a turing machine in it)

[pliant snow]

I'm pretty certain email format is not turing complete, but who knows

[ivory shadow]

I assume you search using your browser's address bar and not by going to google.com first like a weirdo, so just make a custom search engine with the URL https://www.google.com/search?q=%s&udm=14 and set that as your default search engine

Just keep in mind you might need to add clicking on All to your workflow for some searches, since the web tab doesn't show any of the fancy cards that are actually useful, like definitions for words or unit conversions

[ocean cargo]

Random question ☠️ does anyone know an evaluation metric for summarizing such as meeting other than ROUGE (Hopefully doesn't involve the summary reference too if exist)

[safe dragon]

statistics no idea I'm afraid

[dusty pollen]

hey uber remind me to do this in 6 hours

[heavy dagger]

I was JUST about to sit down for the end of the day. but FINE (#6663066) (6h | <t:1746200753>)

[reef yarrow]

can yalls test something for me
i have the deppendancies already installed so i need to know if the auto deppendancy installer works
NOT MALWARE you can litterly read the python
DM me your feedback
https://github.com/CheezzyBoii/Network-Spy

[cinder karma]

I'm sorry why are you avoiding the common python dependencies flow

[heavy dagger]

@dusty pollen: do this (6h ago)

[dusty pollen]

why not just uninstall them...

I'm not installing a script called Network-Spy that requires internet access lmao

[worn remnant]

personally if i see a script called Network-Spy, it's even more trustworthy if someone prefaces the link with "NOT MALWARE"

[dusty pollen]

it's only missing a "this script was tested by xyz app and verified to be malware free" message in the readme like some perfectly legitimate emails used to have

[strange copper]

can't u just uninstall the dependencies lol

and then run the installer

[dusty pollen]

that's what I said, copycat /lh

[pliant snow]

Python programs autoinstalling dependencies I think is really frowned upon

I'm pretty sure a lot of linux installs are limiting pip usage anyways, im not sure this would always work

[rain apex]

I thought this is what venv is for

So u can have deps in that folder only

[pliant snow]

Yeah

Like, it's a neat idea, but I think it's probably best to let the OS's package manager handle it

[dusty pollen]

yeah I'm really not loving the call to pip inside the script

[pliant snow]

actually, what does uv do with this

[dusty pollen]

especially since idk if that correctly handles pip vs pip3 on some systems

[pliant snow]

Yeah, you're going to need at least one dependency anyway lol

[dusty pollen]

also would that even work? the imports are above the auto dependency section anyway

yeah aquo I think it's just that requests is in the imports so it's crashing before it can get to the auto dependency stuff

[pliant snow]

Is psutil built-in? That's also throwing an issue

[dusty pollen]

no, that's one of the other ones

[pliant snow]

Even after installing requests and psutil I run into issues

[dusty pollen]

if they wanted this to work they'd have to remove the imports

[dusty pollen]

speedtest-cli is the third dependency

required = ['psutil', 'requests', 'speedtest-cli']
for package in required:
    try:
        __import__(package.replace('-', '_'))
    except ImportError:
        subprocess.check_call([sys.executable, '-m', 'pip', 'install', package])

[strange copper]

i admittedly. did not process that message

[dusty pollen]

hello The Fake Matthew I saw you typing

[marble jewel]

I saw some chat about niri here the other day, and I hadn't heard about it before which led me down a rabbit hole. I'm now playing around with GlazeWM on windows for some tiling functionality, but I have some major envy for the infinite scrollable part.

[dusty pollen]

there are windows WMs???

[marble jewel]

But having never used a tiling window manager before, this feels revolutionary.

[dusty pollen]

I love tiling window managers so much

[marble jewel]

Yeah, this one seems like it's the best option for being on Windows.

[dusty pollen]

I’m an i3 person myself

I honestly had no idea you could even change WM on windows

[safe dragon]

hi I'm the niri guy

[marble jewel]

There's a feature request for niri-like functionality, but no response yet

[safe dragon]

other than niri having some issues from being relatively small and new it really is my favorite desktop experience I've had

[marble jewel]

Apparently even MacOS has a niri-like option as well, so it's only Microsoft Windows that's lacking

[dusty pollen]

I will have to go down a niri rabbithole too aren’t I

is it as barebones as i3

[safe dragon]

perhaps

[marble jewel]

Do eeeet

[safe dragon]

uh it doesn't really come with anything by itself

[marble jewel]

I watched some videos on niri productivity, and I can definitely see the appeal

Especially since I use an ultrawide monitor

[safe dragon]

since you're used to i3 and xorg you'll have your fair share of wayland troubles though

[dusty pollen]

ew wayland

no thank you

[safe dragon]

lmao

[marble jewel]

Alas, I'm stuck with manually moving windows around between numbered workspaces

[safe dragon]

I switched to wayland fairly early because I had horrendous screen tearing issues on x11

couldn't even watch a youtube video without tearing

had something to do with having two monitors with different refresh rates and resolutions

[marble jewel]

Haven't you heard? It's finally the year of Wayland! /s

[dusty pollen]

do you have a dedicated gpu

[safe dragon]

I did (and do, but this was years ago)

[dusty pollen]

because I don’t think my monitors literally ever matched but I never had much of an issue

[safe dragon]

when I switched to an amd gpu the issues weren't as bad

and the major desktops seemed to fair better

i3 was completely unusable unfortunately

worst tearing of any of the wms

I spent so much time trying to fix it and eventually just gave up and set my main monitor to 60Hz till I tried wayland

from what I understand multimonitor support on xorg was kinda hacked in. It essentially rendered the windows as one big "monitor" and then displays sections of it on each display output

that hack doesn't play nice with differing refresh rates so more hacks were built on top of that

[dusty pollen]

hmm, I don’t think it’s like that any more as far as I can tell

[safe dragon]

don't think anyone has done anything beyond basic maintenance on xorg in years

doubt much has changed

the project is mostly abandoned beyond making sure it "works"

tbh at this point the biggest issue in wayland is handling applications without native wayland support since many of the things wayland has dedicated protocols for don't exist on xorg so xwayland has to kinda hack around it and try to make it work

but ye. Niri is far too new to have xorg support at all

it doesn't even have xwayland support, you have to use a different tool to work with xwayland windows (like xwayland-satellite)

[reef yarrow]

bruh read the code its not malware

[reef yarrow]

Bruh READ THE CODE

you can litterly copy the code into a .txt file the rename it to a .py and it ill work

[dusty pollen]

bruh stop being rude and calling us bruh bruh

[cyan shadow]

Don't yell at people - we allowed you to post that code for review here, but that doesn't guarantee that you'll get people to read it

[dusty pollen]

hi quill

[reef yarrow]

true

[cyan shadow]

Hi hi

[dusty pollen]

I feel like I haven’t spoken to you in ages

[cyan shadow]

I appear

[reef yarrow]

who?

[cyan shadow]

I was moving house! Had to be offline for ages

I moved to a studio apartment

[dusty pollen]

how’s the new place btw??? was gonna ask and then I didn’t remember if you said it publicly in this server haha

[cyan shadow]

I love it so far

[dusty pollen]

I’m sure you really miss having roommates

(/j)

[safe dragon]

I dreamt of having a studio back in uni

[reef yarrow]

so could someone test it for me?

[dusty pollen]

same

[dusty pollen]

they literally did and we even gave you a full explanation of why it doesn’t work and what to fix

[cyan shadow]

The rent makes me cry, but it's a nice place and it's all for me

[safe dragon]

I'm not even sure I have pip installed on this laptop

[dusty pollen]

now when you cry you can cry with plenty of space around you!

[reef yarrow]

dont know why

[reef yarrow]

how do i get it verified

[dusty pollen]

get what verified?

[safe dragon]

oh no. What are you paying

[dusty pollen]

who said anything about verification?

[reef yarrow]

this

[cyan shadow]

Now, I'm not a programmer, but speaking from a user pov, if something installs dependencies automatically, you run the risk of ending up with multiple copies of the thing installed

[dusty pollen]

that… doesn’t make things not malware btw

like please don’t do this for random code you find on the internet

[dusty pollen]

that was a joke.

[cyan shadow]

I think that was a joke, cheezzy

[cyan shadow]

A lot

It's furnished, though

[reef yarrow]

paste the code into chat gpt and ask

[dusty pollen]

oh my god do not do that

[safe dragon]

lmao

[cyan shadow]

No chatgpt code shenanigans in here

[dusty pollen]

please do not make chatgpt part of your security

[cyan shadow]

No genAI, period

[rain apex]

.irocendai is my crimes ok

[cyan shadow]

(I swear we'll put out the rules update soon but until then the bulletin board announcement is leading)

[dusty pollen]

I read your code, I can see that unless the websites you’re sending requests to are themselves sketchy it’s probably fine. I’m just letting you know in general since most of your repos seem to be forks

[dusty pollen]

what crimes. I want to see crimes

[rain apex]

You have seen my crimes they r open source

There r no ongoing crimes at the moment

[dusty pollen]

those aren’t crimes those are like. functional code you got my hopes up

[reef yarrow]

why

[dusty pollen]

didn’t quill JUST tell you not to send chatgpt stuff here

[pliant snow]

i laughed, ill admit

[dusty pollen]

also mute your video when screen recording

[cyan shadow]

I just said AI stuff isn't allowed

[reef yarrow]

?

[cyan shadow]

Hi aquo

[crystal wren]

Not allowed, and that's probably the least wise way you could use it regardless!

[cyan shadow]

Ye

[safe dragon]

thank you youtube

[dusty pollen]

because it doesn’t know anything and just makes stuff up…

anyway

[reef yarrow]

which repos are forks

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by chu2.718281828459045235360287471 as #6362 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1367955836844114051)

[dusty pollen]

like half the repos on your profile?

[reef yarrow]

not true it looks into and reads the code

[pliant snow]

that was the joke

[dusty pollen]

I don’t think this was a joke, aquo… I think that video was fully serious

[cyan shadow]

Unfortunately, ChatGPT hallucinates a lot, and can often spit out garbage

[crystal wren]

It also does not read or understand.

[reef yarrow]

deppends

[dusty pollen]

no, it doesn’t, that’s not how AI works. It doesn’t read— ty dh

[rain apex]

Something i wish GitHub had is a way to separate forks and repos

They clearly know they r different

[dusty pollen]

yeah, it’s strange that they don’t

[crystal wren]

There's at least ?tab=repositories&q=&type=fork, but that's only a minor help.

[lethal walrus]

you acn filter for "sources" in the repos list

[safe dragon]

it doesn't and can't "understand" code. It's a text prediction tool not a reasoning entity

[reef yarrow]

none of it is forked i dont know what ur talking about

[cyan shadow]

This lot are more knowledgeable than I am, but based on my understanding, it just doesn't do code stuff very well at all

(Nevermind the legal implications of just allowing them to use your code for training purposes by uploading it to ChatGPT. It's a nightmare no matter what license you use)

[crystal wren]

It does look like there's just one fork on the account, to be fair.

[rain apex]

Yeah i wish there's ui for it ig, maybe if i figure out how to monkey this...

[dusty pollen]

hmm, I thought for sure it was more when I looked earlier, but maybe I was imagining things based on vibes ngl

[safe dragon]

only 1 fork yeah

[reef yarrow]

which one

[safe dragon]

and forks are how you do pull requests generally on open source projects so I'm not sure why that would be bad

[crystal wren]

Your GitHub pages site, presumably just using something as a base.

[dusty pollen]

forks aren’t a bad thing btw I was just saying you should be aware not to use other people’s code without verifying

[reef yarrow]

i was gonna do something with it but diddnt

it still isnt forked

[crystal wren]

And that's why everyone has 500 forks!

[rain apex]

No i delete forks as soon as im done

[crystal wren]

But if you never started, you're technically never done.

[dusty pollen]

it… is forked

[safe dragon]

I have an open fork for the bevy game engine from like 2 years ago cause I fixed some documentation

[red crest]

(i delete my forks... should i not)

[cinder karma]

🍴

[rain apex]

I think it exists as an option so i will use it

[cinder karma]

Look at my repo loo

[safe dragon]

perhaps I should clean up that fork

[rain apex]

Even if GitHub makes it sound scary

[cinder karma]

Look at how many forks atravita-mods has, smh

[reef yarrow]

could u guys test it and tell me if it works bc my friend tested the file encryptor then hasent been responding

[dusty pollen]

idk what you should or shouldn’t do I just know I get annoyed every time I have to fork something to make a pr even if ik it’s correct

[dusty pollen]

like I already told you, we have, it doesn’t, scroll up and read what we said

[safe dragon]

nice and up to date

[cinder karma]

Anyways, CheezzyBoii, you will find very little respect if you continue to try to AI code

[rain apex]

I don't understand why you are getting random internet strangers to test your code

Just do it locally?

[safe dragon]

run it in a vm if you want a completely clean environment

[cyan shadow]

People have already provided feedback further up, I'm not sure what else you need

And yeah, run it in a VM like Crumble said

[dusty pollen]

and you definitely aren’t going to get people to test things a second time just because you aren’t backreading for the first time

or just… uninstall the dependencies

no need even for a vm

[crystal wren]

Especially when the part you want to test is just... not the way Python is done, and there's no good reason to do it that way.

Just have a separate shell/bash script download the dependencies and act as the launcher if you want it to be automatic.

[cinder karma]

You should also just ship a setup.py or whatever the current state of art is for python package management

[dusty pollen]

tl;dr you should really be less demanding when asking strangers for free help, and try helping yourself first

[pliant snow]

I think that comment is uncalled for tbh

[dusty pollen]

@reef yarrow as for the cause of the issue

[pliant snow]

I hate it when people dogpile on some guy

[rain apex]

I thought setup.py is getting deprecated

Or like replaced with some config file thing

But if it is smol scale not for shipping yet venv is easy and nice

[dusty pollen]

I hate python dependency management ngl

[rain apex]

I use it a lot cus installing python package via AUR sucks

[dusty pollen]

and I like npm so it’s not like I have good taste

[reef yarrow]

?

[dusty pollen]

but wasn’t it venv and virtualenv a few years ago? why are those separate things oh my god I hate python dependency management

[strange copper]

npm was good because it made me disable onedrive

[crystal wren]

It's just that... if you're entirely new, you won't know what's complete nonsense and what isn't. So using it to help is like using a mix of good books, and a mix of books written with entirely false information. With all books claiming to be correct.

You won't know, and it's going to play hell with your learning.

[dusty pollen]

I need a storytime on this

[strange copper]

(context is that i had code in my documents folder and i immediately hit my onedrive limit because of node_modules and that was how i realized onedrive was silly and why do i have 2 documents folders anyway?)

[pliant snow]

setup.py... I think is still around?

maybe?

Our lord and savior uv will guide us

[dusty pollen]

ah, 30GB node_modules dir for boilerplate strikes again

[strange copper]

i don't have a particular need for onedrive and all it did was slow my machine down to sync

[dusty pollen]

what is this uv you keep speaking of

[strange copper]

i sync my obsidian vaults via git and a completely foolproof bash script i wrote

[pliant snow]

https://docs.astral.sh/uv/

[crystal wren]

I avoid these issues by avoiding Python.

I'm much happier because of it.

[dusty pollen]

is it more python dependency management black magic

[pliant snow]

wait is that the right url

[dusty pollen]

okay but without python where are you going to mess with metaclasses

[pliant snow]

https://astral.sh/blog/uv

This one might be better

[rain apex]

https://setuptools.pypa.io/en/latest/userguide/index.html

[strange copper]

honestly i don't think pip is thattttttttttttt bad

[cyan shadow]

Completely unrelated to python - I have acquired a raspi 4

[rain apex]

If im reading it right u r supposed to make a pyproject.toml

[dusty pollen]

share the bash script then. I dare you. Do it and I’ll share my mod management zsh script

[rain apex]

I don't think pip is bad but it should probably be the user running it

requirements.txt

[safe dragon]

I suggest haskell instead

[dusty pollen]

I love haskell

[strange copper]

git stash
git pull
git stash apply

git add -A

current_date=$(date)
git commit -m "$current_date"

git push origin main

If there are merge conflicts i notice them 4 weeks later but only if i reread my notes

[rain apex]

Wow beautiful

[crystal wren]

Now try to make Stardew run on it...

[safe dragon]

ah your strategy to good commit messages is just the date

[strange copper]

obsidian sync has nothing on me 😤

[dusty pollen]

oh my mod management script may not actually fit in a discord message

[dusty pollen]

I have a raspi 1

[cyan shadow]

I have planssss

[crystal wren]

I literally also have a 1st gen one sitting somewhere.

[strange copper]

to be fair i don't actually need to know what went into the commit because it's just some notes and i'm not using git for actual version control

i'm just using github as a file store pretty much 😭

[cyan shadow]

I got this one from a student association acquaintance

[red crest]

i like the idea of getting a raspi until i reach checkout and realize ive got no plans to use it for

[dusty pollen]

same, I’m pretty sure I have a pico lying around somewhere

[strange copper]

i had a raspi like ..... 8 years ago

i would program things in the very very barebones version of minecraft that shipped with it

[marble jewel]

I'm too lazy, I'm using Obsidian Sync

[strange copper]

for some reason taht happened in python

[dusty pollen]

I love how cheap picos are

[crystal wren]

See, that's why mine's still sitting in a drawer somewhere. I didn't have that bit of restraint at the time.

[dusty pollen]

I also have two bbc microbits

[red crest]

send it to me so it can sit in my drawer instead

[strange copper]

at least your conflict resolution probably looks nicer and you can't forget to sync (it's probably automatic? surely it's automatic)

[marble jewel]

Yeah, it's one of those things where "it just works"

[strange copper]

i think it's a fine and fair business model for obsidian i'm just cheap so i get a slightly less good solution BUT it is free

[marble jewel]

There's a git sync extension, I haven't tested that out

[strange copper]

for some reason i decided i didn't need it

hubris ig

[red crest]

i think thats the one i use for my obsidian vault, mines synced on git too cuz i use the digital garden plugin or w/e to put it on a domain. havent opened it in forever tho

[marble jewel]

That's the beauty of it all being raw text files, you have a lot of options

[cyan shadow]

I do know what I want to do witg my raspi but I want my room to be fully ready before I tinker with it

[marble jewel]

tbh, I'm trying to minimize my use of plugins except for a few that seem like they really provide a lot of value. DataView is pretty neat.

[strange copper]

raw text files was why i picked obsidian. i see the occasional post like "wow i wish i could have xyz that would make it not plain text" and i just think "you want notion with offline mode"

[strange copper]

i do like dataview for my DND notes

[cinder karma]

Smh at least include the hour

[cinder karma]

Yeah, it's still there, you're just not supposed to call it anymore

Lol python packaging is nuts

[strange copper]

at least on my machine, that date command comes up with weekday month day hour:min:sec timezone year

you will have to speak with windows about that one

[cinder karma]

To be fair what you do is basically a more sane version of my system

Which is zimwiki and dropbox

[dusty pollen]

I just… don’t do cloud backups

I store dropfiles on github using yadm

that’s pretty much it

[reef yarrow]

bro what are you talking about

[cyan shadow]

He's giving you advice - using ChatGPT for reviewing code or writing it is unreliable, because it does not have a 100% chance of accurate information, which would lead to mistakes if you're not already completely familiar with what you're doing

[reef yarrow]

i didnt use chat gpt for the code

it works on my pc

[cyan shadow]

He meant the review in this case - you asked ChatGPT to review it for you, right? Also not a good idea

[reef yarrow]

true

[dusty pollen]

one final attempt at rephrasing it:

no, your dependency autoinstaller doesn’t work. It’s a bad idea regardless (people have lots of different systems/setups and you should never be silently installing anything anyway, and it won’t even work on some machines at all) but even in practice, you need to remove the import statements for the three packages you dynamically import for the dependencies.

aka psutil, requests and speedtest-cli

as for the rest of the code, it seems pretty short and like half of it is just requests for websites? ngl I can’t tell what the goal is since this isn’t really doing anything other than combining a bunch of existing tools into a new tui/cli as far as I can tell

if it’s a learning project, it’s fairly organised and seems to be written decently enough

structurally I actually kind of like it

[devout vault]

Oh, well an extra click is also a deal breaker. Guess I'll just have to write a whole extension / greasemonkey script (or whatever the current equivalent is) instead

Don't SDVPufferwaaah me, an extra click is a big deal. I could move mountains with that click

Or, like, buy a pizza

(Also I am glad to know that emoji exists, I've wanted to use a waaah one before but wasn't on any servers that had it)

[marble jewel]

There was a chat here a week or so ago about what could possibly replace Discord. I discovered this one which is trying to be an open sourced Discord alternative https://revolt.chat

I might play around with it on the chance that Discord's new direction makes things shittier

The web interface looks pretty much identical

[pliant snow]

Why is my laptop screen no longer working...

[devout vault]

I saw that, can't recall why I didn't really like it

[marble jewel]

It still feels very much early in development, but they seem to have the fundamentals down.

[devout vault]

Looking at all the alternatives and stuff is what let to the etch and sketch arc

[marble jewel]

Things look and feel the way they're supposed to, but missing a lot of features

[devout vault]

That channel list has too much padding for my liking. 😛

Hopefully it's fixable with themes (if I ever use it)

[marble jewel]

Themes seems to be customizable

They also have a really low userbase, so I doubt they could actually sustain any kind of migration of a large community

[devout vault]

So you're saying it's not a good idea to move the entire SDV official server there? Oh well

[marble jewel]

That would probably be like a DDOS attack on their servers

Apparently it's self-hostable though, so I guess theoretically you could host it on your own server

I might play around with that too just for fun

[devout vault]

My favorite I found was tailchat. Not for any functional reason - simply because their icon is two cats

[marble jewel]

Between self hosted servers and first+third party clients makes me think this has some potential for niche communities at least

Holy clickbait, Batman! https://youtu.be/cZqFaMlufDY?si=OYnhHbOrTfXT5x4T

[rain apex]

Birb birb

[devout vault]

The embed at least does sound like clickbait

[marble jewel]

The headline is clickbait, but the subject is interesting

[devout vault]

It also makes it sound like git isn't open source, but I'm pretty sure it is...?

[marble jewel]

Apparently you can utilize jj features locally, while still having it work with existing git flows remotely

[devout vault]

I don't know what a jj is besides possibly an obscure vim command

(Almost every vim command is obscure for me, for the record)

[marble jewel]

This just handles flows around rebase, merge, and things possibly better than git

jj = jujutsu

[devout vault]

I'm not gonna watch the video, but I checked the description and it doesn't seem to have the name in it

[devout vault]

You're saying it lets you use anime character powers from that show I heard a bunch about and thought was a sports anime for the longest time (and still haven't watched)?

[marble jewel]

https://jj-vcs.github.io/jj/latest/
https://github.com/jj-vcs/jj

[devout vault]

...that's a terrible name

Like, many search engines (not things like google, think smaller scale) don't even support searching for things less than three characters long

Seriously, who came up with that name

[rain apex]

It's sounds neat but i don't understand the usecase

Git is fine/10 anyways

[devout vault]

Oh

It uses the full name in the git repo description

They really should've named the repo that instead of... jj

"Jujutsu is unlike most other systems"
This might be the clickbait energy leaking over but this just makes me think of the "I'm not like the other girls" memes

Okay, the person who named this command in git needs to be fired too

(Can you tell I'm tired and therefore maybe a bit cranky? 😛 )

[marble jewel]

one day emoji coding will become a thing, and commands will be like vcs ⬇️

[ivory shadow]

git 😈

[cinder karma]

I'm just trying to get work to use git lol

Instead of svn

[worn remnant]

speaking of git killers (not actually a git killer): https://gameoftrees.org/index.html

[dusty pollen]

and probably isn't being controlled by google, either...

[sand frost]

isn't github microsoft tho?

like, i know that git neq github

but i feel like most people who experience git experience it through github

[lethal walrus]

github is microsoft yes

but iro was saying that this "git killer" is google's

[sand frost]

no i know, but it does sort of feel like it's all big tech jockeying

[cinder karma]

github is microsoft, but gitlab is free and clear

we're having Discussions at work over version control

[dusty pollen]

yeah, but ig the idea of the vcs ITSELF being big tech controlled but still being touted as somehow more open source than git is what I was raising an eyebrow about

[sand frost]

ah — yeah I wasn't really buying much of what that video seemed to be claiming

[dusty pollen]

to me it just screams the same attitude as the silicon valley "xyz hasn't changed in 200 years!" people

like... maybe that means it didn't need to

"pens haven't changed in 100 years!"

good. leave them alone

[cinder karma]

writes with fountain pens still

[dusty pollen]

I feel like I've definitely seen that in multiple kickstarters claiming to invent silver pencils

[cinder karma]

friends!

fountain pen friends!

[dusty pollen]

what's your favourite one?

[cinder karma]

rn I'm using a pilot metro

[dusty pollen]

I really like my kaweco perkeo

you guys don't get much Parker stuff, do you. I seem to remember that not really being available in North America

kickstarter: this pen is infinite and never runs out! and it writes completely normally!
reality: it's a silver pencil, it wears down just like pencils do just slower, it's a nightmare to sharpen and it's been around for centuries

[cinder karma]

yeah, most of my pens are Japanese

I'm also the type to like veyr fine tipped pens so

japanese pens I like

I really want a pilot stella but it's a literal hundred dollars so

[dusty pollen]

I don't own any fountain pens I've £20

[cinder karma]

https://www.carmenriverapens.com/pilot-stella-stargazer-90s-black-fountain-pen/ isn't this pretty?

[dusty pollen]

but I do have my granddad's parker vector because when he died I found out he also used fountain pens and I'm his only grandchild that did too it's incredible that this pen is still being made, that my granddad had one despite very much not being British, and that he was as cheap as I am

[dusty pollen]

oh that is pretty

it reminds me of this one other pen I got from my granddad that's a knock-off montblanc but like... not a knock-off

[cinder karma]

tbh montblanc isn't worth it but a nice pilot might be

I also tend to use cheap ink tbh

[dusty pollen]

my sister once dated a guy who walked around with a £500 montblanc just to use. I will literally never understand that

[cinder karma]

it's like sports cars

I can't see one without thinking "god that's so fiscally unresponsible"

noodlerssss is what I tend to use

[dusty pollen]

isn't that one of the ones that come in jars

I just use cartridges

[cinder karma]

yeah!

[rain apex]

In theory u can sell that to recover some money

[indigo mist]

@rain apex You leveled up to Desperado. That's level 1000! :open_mouth: You have been taken by the server's evil clutches and there is no escape for you. Congrats!

[dusty pollen]

I cba to mess with converters

[rain apex]

Wow

Terrible tomes

[cinder karma]

I don't deal with cartridges

[dusty pollen]

chu birthday

[heavy dagger]

New quote added by atravita as #6363 (https://discordapp.com/channels/137344473976799233/1215712021207720006/1368301263233749243)

[cinder karma]

that said I need to clean up my pens 😦

[rain apex]

Hm we r just over 100 from the fabled quote #6480

[cinder karma]

I so rarely write anything anymore that's not in my planner 😦

[dusty pollen]

same, I haven't written anything in like three years and they're all clogged lmao

[dusty pollen]

shame quotes can't be quoted any more

[cinder karma]

and I've got a teensy little pilot...hmm

ah ha!

petit1.

one of those especially for my planner

[pliant snow]

I think

A little puff of smoke just came out of my laptop

[cursive sigil]

didn't you teach your laptop smoking is unhealthy?

[pliant snow]

I have discovered what seems to be a design flaw with the 13" framework laptops, although I think I've managed to "fix" it

[safe dragon]

what happened

[pliant snow]

I was just using my laptop earlier today when suddenly the screen went black. Couldn't get it to turn back on, but it seemed to be booting and HDMI out worked fine

I took it apart and was trying to see if something happened with the screen cable, when I noticed something that I thought at first was an LED, but I think it was the display cable shorting and glowing, and a lil bit of smoke coming from it

Turns out, theres a little metal post just to the side of where the display cable is routed. At some point, when I put the laptop back together, the display cable was pinched between that metal post and the case, and eventually it wore thru the sheathing and shorted it out

(thats not my pic)

its supposed to go just to the right of that little rectangular post there, but I got it stuck.

I kinda... reshaped it and it seems to be getting a connection again, and I put it back together taking care not to pinch it again

But there's technically a hole in my display (power?) cable now

[safe dragon]

not ideal

[pliant snow]

I've always thought that cable having to go over the hinge like that was a really weird design

[sonic mirage]

I seem to recall the display cable being one of the things you need to route very specifically. I suspect they'll redesign it at some point to be easier similar to how they got rid of the input cover ribbon for the 12"

[pliant snow]

I was more worried about it wearing against the hinge than being pinched, but I made the wrong call

[pliant snow]

https://frontendmasters.com/blog/seeking-an-answer-why-cant-html-alone-do-includes/

I echo this sentiment 100%

[sonic mirage]

Well if it gives up the blue smoke permanently you can replace it for pretty cheap at least: https://frame.work/products/edp-cable
#repairability

[pliant snow]

Yeah I did see that, which is reassuring

[devout vault]

Okay, but to be fair, VR pens can be kinda neat 😛

There's also 3d printing pens, not that those are... great...

[devout vault]

...what? You're telling me .q doesn't work?

.q

[heavy dagger]

#2675

@signal wedge where are those meaty balls?

• @uncut urchin

06 Aug 2018 @ 12:19:50 AM UTC

[devout vault]

Phew

I was wondering what the point of them would be then 😛

[devout vault]

Have only read the embed title but: It can, and they're called iframes /s

Ah, the page mentions iframe

Drat, I thought I was original

[rain apex]

the .q was borked for a while

[devout vault]

Tragic

[rain apex]

.q 5555

[heavy dagger]

#5555

the real task was the braincells we lost along the way

• @grave onyx (Jump)

07 Aug 2021 @ 09:11:24 PM UTC

[devout vault]

,q is one of the greatest joys a discord server can have

[rain apex]

i think it was turned off to prune some nasty things but now its ok

[lethal walrus]

oh it was off like 4 hours ago

[devout vault]

So what you're telling me is that I'm the prophesied one who revived uber bot quotes, right?

@ junimos I need a "Savior of Uberbot" role, thanks

[dusty pollen]

it didn't yesterday I guess they literally just fixed it

[dusty pollen]

I have one and can confirm they suck

[devout vault]

Incorrect. I personally restored the quote ability to uberbot solely through sheer willpower

[dusty pollen]

well joke's on you because guess who got it disabled in the first place

[devout vault]

I don't think it was me

Considering I haven't even been quoting things much for a while

[dusty pollen]

twas I

[devout vault]

Also, I think I just figured out why exploration in Minecraft is kinda boring to me. It's literally the "infinite world" part (and the following chain of design decisions).

Like, I can enjoy proc gen, but I think I like a fixed size world so much better than infinite (ie. Minecraft). I enjoy Terraria's worlds and exploring them.

With an infinite world it kinda just starts to feel "same-y" after a while (even in heavily modded Minecraft it feels like). And because it needs to be different, you can't have a whole lot of "important" super unique stuff (without some intentional safeguards to make them generate a certain amount I guess, which kinda removes the unique-ness), since nobody is gonna want to travel tens of thousands of blocks for every new thing.

Not really sure how to articulate all the stuff I'm thinking about that, but I think it might be why I like the idea of handcrafted maps over vanilla worldgen as well. Proc gen would be fine too, just make it a fixed size sort of thing (like I mentioned earlier), or like all ocean afterwards or something.

[dusty pollen]

I thought Minecraft did have a size limit? but then again I don't play it

[devout vault]

I mean, technically, but it's 30 million blocks in any (cardinal) direction from the world origin

[dusty pollen]

oh I thought it was much smaller

[devout vault]

There's a guy who's been walking to the so called "far lands" in Minecraft 1.7.3 since March 2011 (I think every day?), and as of last year he's only 79% there. (Oh, and these far lands are actually at 12.5 million blocks, not the 30million)

Though to be fair that far out runs into floating point problems

Like, uh, take a look at this most recent video on YT. https://youtu.be/RDnGJxda_b4?t=126 (Timestamp so you don't have to sit a minute or so through the intro, it's just him walking)

Oh and he's been bringing a tamed wolf with him the entire way, madness

Oh man the way entities move with the world is kinda trippy too (30 seconds from the beginning of the video)

30 seconds is probably a better point because you can also see how the selected block outline doesn't match the world at all

[dusty pollen]

haha I looked it up and I also didn't realise the minecraft world wasn't usually flat

[devout vault]

...have you never seen screenshots of minecraft

I feel like even atra would know MC isn't usually flat

[dusty pollen]

I played it very briefly (like five minutes) a very long time ago and I probably have seen screenshots but never noticed

[devout vault]

It's also funny in that video noticing how left/right movement is seemingly fine, I guess because he's mainly travelling in one direction and so the other position component doesn't have the floating point problem

[dusty pollen]

I don't know enough about minecraft to know which part isn't working as expected

[devout vault]

Let's just say this isn't normal https://farlandsorbust.com/img/Farlandsblockmovement.gif

(Why did they make that gif so tiny)

ANYWAYS, back to the non-infinite world thing:

For my skylands world gen mod idea, I had had some ideas to alleviate some of those same-y feelings I've had with existing skylands world gen mods (and also world gen in MC in general), but I should approach it more along the lines of fixed size world

Part of the whole part was also to be datapack driven so you could add modded worldgen from other mods in a way that would still be balanced well (you're not exactly going to find the normal amount of most modded ores in a skylands world normally...). If I did a fixed world size thing I'd need some parts of that to be adjustable as well (since a big pack will have more content that you want in the world than a small pack)

There's also this mod which doesn't have any world gen designed it for it... and probably also has poor mod compat (relative to normal world gen mods) https://modrinth.com/mod/circumnavigate

[dense star]

lol

[safe dragon]

I should really look into making a dotfiles repo

but I'd like to not have any random ass thing that gets put into my .config folder to be in it

how do y'all manage yours

[crystal wren]

I've been wondering that lately myself... I think I'd opt for a gitignore that ignores everything, and just force add anything I want in there?

[safe dragon]

I'm trying yadm rn

you just add the configs you want tracked and the interface apart from that is simply git

seems nice enough

I'll see how it goes I suppose

[pliant snow]

I just have a repo with like 4 or 5 things in it (neovim config, kitty, fish shell, maybe a few others). Then I just symlink to those in .config, so I don't have to manually copy everything over everytime I made a change. The dotfiles directory is backed up in git, but it also gets synced via syncthing to my other machines

[safe dragon]

symlinks seems to be how stuff like yadm work

the popular approach

there's some gnu utility for it too

[cinder karma]

Usually isn't flat?

[lethal walrus]

it's meant to be played with terrain

[devout vault]

What's a dotfiles repo

Is it (typically) linux config file stuff, like .bashrc?

[safe dragon]

yeah. A repository with all your configuration files

[devout vault]

Is .bashrc even the one used nowadays

[safe dragon]

it is still often part of it yeah

[devout vault]

Even when I learned about it I feel like there were multiple options

[safe dragon]

it's not in mine rn though

[devout vault]

That wasn't even autocorrect

That was just me mixing up two trains of thought at once

(I edited it but I said "jokes" instead of "options")

[safe dragon]

[devout vault]

smh atra don't ruin my joke

[cinder karma]

Lol

I've used zsh as my shell of preference for a decade and I still have a .bashrc file that is never read

It's insanity how much these things stick around

[devout vault]

Is zsh the one used on mac by default? Or was at some point?

[safe dragon]

it is

[devout vault]

For some reason I feel like I've used it before despite never having installed it

Ah, that explains it

[cinder karma]

It is now!

[safe dragon]

I don't do enough shell stuff to really understand the differences other than that oh-my-zsh allows for theming much easier than the arcane magic logic required for bashrc

[cinder karma]

And yes. Linuxers have dotfile repos

Mine even comes with a setup script

I fucking loveeee oh my zdh

[cinder karma]

I have watched one man play Minecraft in my entire life and he spent the whole thirty minutes I listened in to the livestream in working on a cathedral

I do not understand the Minecraft

[devout vault]

The lawyers?

[cinder karma]

Yes

[devout vault]

See, I thought you had mentioned that before, which is why I thought you knew minecraft wasn't normally flat

Unless the lawyer was on a superflat world or something

(Yes, superflat, not flat: https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Superflat )

[cinder karma]

I don't know! I just found out that watching people build in Minecraft is boring actually

[devout vault]

(Ignore the part that says "or Flat", that's bedrock edition which doesn't count)

[cinder karma]

The cathedral was on an island in the middle of nowhere

Terrain what terrain

[devout vault]

Ah

Floating island, or boring water island?

[cinder karma]

Floating

[devout vault]

Excellent. But also not very conducive to knowing normal minecraft if that's all you've seen

[cinder karma]

Nope!

You and DH should play Minecraft

[devout vault]

We've been talking about a modpack for a week or two at this point 😛

Might've figured out one but probably gone add a couple things to it (who needs "tightly integrated balance" or a "cohesive game experience")

[cinder karma]

What

[cinder karma]

Oh, this sounds interesting!!!

[cinder karma]

Man. This is our biggest clue the world isn't a simulation

[devout vault]

Nah, they figured out a more efficient data type

[cinder karma]

3d printing pens sound like they are a faff and a half

[devout vault]

They store everything with automatically-simplfying fractions or something

[cinder karma]

What.

[devout vault]

You just use ints for the number

What could possibly go wrong

[cinder karma]

Look, I make jokes at work about storing two bits in one bit

[devout vault]

Surely that'll be easy to use with trig and other Complex Math Things ™️

[cinder karma]

Or perhaps...can we use the bottom of the chip

[devout vault]

That's what compression is for, right?

[cinder karma]

Fixed point. We use fixed point at work

Which is why time scale bigger than 1s might as well not exist

[devout vault]

<insert slight tangent about how silly one of the Steins;Gate technical details of a device works, which involves compressing 3.24 TB of data (||your memories in your brain, apparently||) into 36 bytes by sending it through a black hole to compress it????????>

(re: the two bits in one bit thing, I had to check the wiki to see the size of the data before and after before posting this - couldn't remember before scale but thought it was in the GBs, but knew the end result was <200 bytes)

[lethal walrus]

when you say skylands do you mean like the aether/end or some new thing

[devout vault]

Sorta, yeah. Floating islands but standard overworld biomes

[lethal walrus]

interesting

[devout vault]

My minecraft-skylands-world-gen.txt is 9 KB according to google 😛

[devout vault]

Does fixed point have infinite precision?

That's the whole reason I decided on a new data type (and chose fractions that simplified where possible)

[lethal walrus]

like planning? or the datapack source?

[devout vault]

Planning, or I guess sorta the stage before

[cinder karma]

Neither have infinite precision!

That isn't possible

Tradeoff each way

[devout vault]

You mean between fixed point and fractions? Can't you just add make bottom number bigger (technical terminology) for more precision? (And adjust top number accordingly)

Also repeating decimals was the other reason I chose fractions

[devout vault]

Also, the reason I said sorta the stage before planning is because it's not even much as far as implementation plans - gotta figure out how to make a world gen engine Java mod in current MC, as well as how to make stuff datapack driven (and how to format datapacks to begin with), first

It's more end-result ideas at the moment

[cinder karma]

Eventually you run out of bits!

https://docs.python.org/3/library/fractions.html

[devout vault]

My brain isn't in the right headspace to read through those (Especially since ctrl+F = "bit" didn't turn up anything)

However, have you considered: This is a hypothetical civilization that can simulate our entire reality. I'm not sure memory space is a super big concern for them

(Or if you want to get more philosophical, simulate the perception of the person reading this message and none of this is actually real even in a simulated sense)

[cinder karma]

Ah! Qbits

[devout vault]

Qbits are scary, I was thinking more like a number that can dynamically change how many bits it uses

[cinder karma]

Those are python integers

[devout vault]

Like this but not fixed: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/utility/bitset

(How does C++ not have a dynamic bitset still despite it being a boost thing for eons????)

[cinder karma]

Python integers autopromote yeah

[devout vault]

Seriously?

I had no idea python integers did that

[cinder karma]

Yup

[safe dragon]

elixir integers also work this way