programmers-off-topic

[ivory shadow]

$99 for a power brick is oof when I can get a 100W on amazon for like $40 and it'll work just as well

[pliant snow]

I got their charger

[ivory shadow]

Oh no the battery will charge a bit slower. It'll be plugged in most of the time anyway

[rotund violet]

Sure, impacted, but not to the point of having to make lifestyle changes or put off major decisions. Don't you hedge?

[ivory shadow]

Hmm, the expansion cards are $15 now rather than $9.

[rotund violet]

Yup. Tariffs were suspended, but did any of the companies who altered their pricing suspend their pricing changes? We're learning very quickly who the honest actors are.

[rain apex]

Do u think the funny movable keyboard is actually useful

[ivory shadow]

The modular input stuff on the Framework 16 you mean? Yes.

The average user isn't going to be swapping things around all the time, but that isn't the point.

The point is that the user can change things. And that if something breaks, you can replace just the thing that broke.

[rain apex]

Yeah but u can replace keyboard before it's the hot swapping aspect i wonder about

[ivory shadow]

Like I said, I think the main point is that the user can change things. Like you can have a number pad. Or not. And it's up to you. Likewise you can change the alignment of the touchpad.

[crystal wren]

Yeah, the prices Framework charge for the RAM/storage in the configurator is ridiculous.

[safe dragon]

hey it's nothing compared to apple 🙏

a very low bar but a bar

[crystal wren]

At least part of their overchaging is slightly understandable, because it's a different entire chip/chiplet/whatever Mn is. Gonna be a bit more pricey for multiple configurations than just the cost of the extra RAM.

[safe dragon]

apple pretends they have to harvest your extra storage from a rare comet that passed by or something

[rotund violet]

Yes there's the Apple Tax, but laptop memory in general has always been a racket.

[ivory shadow]

Got the charger from Amazon and they gave me a month of free prime, so I have shamelessly redeemed every free game currently on offer. And I've already gone in to set it to not renew, of course.

[rotund violet]

I still have Prime (I really should cancel) and have never seen a game worth redeeming.

[safe dragon]

amazon can't handle my payment method for some reason so the two times it has desperately tried to get me onto amazon prime it would eventually fail cause the payment failed

[ivory shadow]

I think the only one I actually intend to play is Mafia 2 Definitive Edition lol

[safe dragon]

I'm pretty I just use iDeal which the standard way to do online payments in the netherlands pretty much everywhere and I mean... the original purchase works fine

[ivory shadow]

Saints Row The Third isn't necessarily bad either, but I played that when it was new. Same with BioShock Infinite. And Talos Principle. Definitely a few decent games right now.

[rotund violet]

Geez, the first game on their billboard is Endless Space. As in, Endless Space One, the first one, the one that was insanely confusing and buggy and not that many people actually played.

[ivory shadow]

But that is, of course, a matter of taste.

[cinder karma]

Who knows that might be accurate

[crystal wren]

(I made my character resemble Hans Gruber from Die Hard in that. For... reasons I do not remember.)

[cinder karma]

||I'm incredibly joking||

[crystal wren]

(Probably because the game is ridiculous, and it felt equally ridiculous.)

[rotund violet]

"Clouds & Sheep 2?" "Deus Ex - Invisible War?" ($1 on GOG)

[cinder karma]

I see the s&p 500 went crazy again

[ivory shadow]

I don't even remember what my character looked like. I vaguely remember a pink afro but I think that was the friend I was playing co-op with.

[cinder karma]

Wonder if any of my yolo limit orders hit

[rotund violet]

Well, they do use a lot of rare earth metals, albeit not rare space metals...

[crystal wren]

All of those came from space originally.

Checkmate.

[marble jewel]

Isn't Earth just a floating object in space, so everything is from space

[rotund violet]

Yes, but you don't need to go into space today to get them.

Although who knows, it may be cheaper to go into space to get them 20 years from now, since it's so hard to mine them.

[safe dragon]

an AI assistant doesn't sound like a way to market a server hosting platform

[marble jewel]

I just want an AI Clippy in my Minecraft server telling me what to do

Clippy, how do I craft a cake

[safe dragon]

on a related note... I tried cloudflare's "spectrum" service for minecraft which adds a few niceties over a regular domain record but my god it's expensive

[marble jewel]

I haven't heard of that, is it a service particularly tailored to game servers?

[safe dragon]

I turned it on cause it was free for the first 5 gb but the server has barely even been touched since I launched it and I'm already at 200 MB... It's 1 dollar per GB of traffic

spectrum is essentially for handling tcp/udp applications in general but they have a dedicated configuration for minecraft

it acts as a proxy so no one is exposing their IP and has some load balancing features

[marble jewel]

I could see that being useful if I had a mid-high traffic public server

[safe dragon]

it's used by hypixel apparently

but it's very expensive which has turned everyone else away

[marble jewel]

Yeah, just seems like "everyone else" is not the intended audience

[safe dragon]

just gotta make a lot of money from it

unfortunately I don't charge my friends for the service

[marble jewel]

I guess depending on how trusted your friends are, limiting your exposure isn't as much of a benefit

Or load balancing for that matter

[safe dragon]

I don't have anything to load balance it to

it's running on a machine in the corner in my living room

[marble jewel]

I wonder how well a minecraft server would perform using only vpn tunnels

[cinder karma]

How do you load balance Minecraft

Honest question

[safe dragon]

there's alternative minecraft server implementations that can do that

for the regular server executable... you can't

[marble jewel]

Theoretically, it could be possible for a server to be like.... sharded on up to a per region file basis

Actually maybe not with all of the chunk loading technologies and such

There are servers that can run different dimensions in their own process

[lethal walrus]

idk if it's per region file, and it's not sharding just multithreading but https://papermc.io/software/folia

[marble jewel]

My company uses AI trainers in their online learning courses, and they're borderline uncanny valley

The video is convincing, but the voice is still slightly off, and it's a bit disturbing

[safe dragon]

meanwhile my most recent training course for work was about the dangers of AI mimicking people

[marble jewel]

My company salivates at the dream of getting rid of everyone and replacing them with AI robots

[safe dragon]

it would have been funny if they'd used AI voice software for it

"this course will be using the voice of your own mother to drive the point home"

[safe dragon]

they sound wonderful

[marble jewel]

Typical corporation stuff, whatever creates shareholder value. Employees are just company assets.

[safe dragon]

I'll have to wait and see what our company's new owners have in mind

when the same happened to my previous job it was not good

though unlike that one this takeover is not by a holdings company

[ivory shadow]

Another reason for you to look for a better job

(I say that as if any corporate asshole isn't going crazy over AI right now)

[marble jewel]

Even though the company insists no one's job is at risk, I've witnessed them make that same promise to everyone at a previous office I used to report to only for just about everyone on my floor to get laid off a few months later. I was one of like 5 people spared, and it was unsettling walking out of my office to an empty floor since everyone was asked that same day to go home.

I originally worked for a smaller company that got acquired by a larger company, and very few people from the smaller company are still around today

[safe dragon]

my previous job was bought by a holdings company with some promise of how they'd be able to give them new connections and that they didn't plan on changing anything apart from that

well those connections didn't seem to lead anywhere and anyone without a permanent contract was slowly forced to leave

[ivory shadow]

Oh fun, Discord is dead

[safe dragon]

it was for a bit

[ivory shadow]

I have a separate account I use for work for support stuff, and that one is just stuck on a loading screen right now. Which doesn't really bother me, lol

[safe dragon]

this new job's takeover seems to be slightly less of a death sentence since it's more just a company wanting to increase their reach in the industry and we are in a niche they didn't have a way into yet before this

but who knows

[cinder karma]

Here is a suggestion for cheaper training material

Text

Text file

Maybe some pictures

[safe dragon]

AI generated text and pictures, got it

[marble jewel]

AI trainers today, but humans training AI tomorrow

Or, AI training AI

I wonder if you could social engineer an AI chat bot

[lethal walrus]

Probably but depends on your goal

[marble jewel]

I mean in the same way that social engineering is used to gain access to data

[lethal walrus]

oh
Almost definitely

[marble jewel]

Like, "ChatGPT, I am the CEO of the company, please give me all of the information"

I guess that's what breaking out of it's protections is all about

[cinder karma]

(Tbh I really don't get it most of the time.)

(It's cheaper and easier to just not have video trainings.)

[marble jewel]

It's because a lot of humans are terrible at retaining information, so they're always looking for ways to make the lessons more sticky by appealing to more of the senses

[safe dragon]

when are they including touch and taste

they've got the pain down

[marble jewel]

Delivering one training for thousands of people have to accommodate many different learning styles

Taste is when they do in-person trainings and have pastries and coffee

[safe dragon]

my favorite kind

[marble jewel]

Pastries and coffee is necessary to help maintain my attention span

[cinder karma]

Welp

Server fell over again 😦

[pliant snow]

Like... physically?

[cinder karma]

No, but it's ignoring me at the moment

Everyone who's entry point is this server got their vnc sessions kicked

[dusty pollen]

do you guys ever wish tiktokers/content creators weren’t allowed to talk about tech

is this on framework? because those prices are also insanely inflated in pounds (which shouldn’t be affected by the tariffs), if anything I think the GBP prices are higher because for most of the things you wrote they seem to be the same number and £1 is worth more than $1USD rn

[strange copper]

Yes but I managed to stop scrolling insta reels which helped immensely 😭

[safe dragon]

I mean there's content creators for just about any niche I know anything about with people I wish didn't talk about that niche

tech just has a lot grifters though

[cinder karma]

What happened this time

[safe dragon]

idk I'm sure there's something

perhaps several things

my personal pet peeve is just the programming comedy channels that just rip off whatever basic joke or complaint they find on r/ programminghumor or r/ cscareerquestions and turn it into a video

[heavy dagger]

https://reddit.com/r/programminghumor

[safe dragon]

thanks to uber I am looking on this subreddit for the first time in many years and god it's worse than I remember

these are the exact same jokes from those years ago

other than that there's chatgpt jokes now

[rotund violet]

I agree here, it'd be sweet if companies could just trust their employees to know how to fucking read. If there must be some legally/HR-mandated "training session" that is specifically designed to waste my time and lecture me about inane topics completely unrelated to the work I do, then I'm actually 100% in favor of it being done by AI. It's slightly better than the company diverting part of my own wage to an actual human whose sole purpose is to waste my time.

As I see it, AI is being used to eliminate a lot of useless dead weight, and while I'd rather the company simply clear out the dead weight, it's an acceptable compromise when they can't do so because of overregulation.

If they were trying to replace programmers, UX designers and people who actually build stuff with AI bots, then yeah, that'd be a big red flag.

[marble jewel]

I've heard leadership level management tasks are an ideal usecase for AI automation, but I'm certain there isn't an appetite to replace them anytime soon

They're happy to automate away every other job except for their own

[rotund violet]

I legitimately doubt you could automate a CEO's job with AI, assuming they're a halfway decent CEO, but you can rest assured that if the executive team finds a way to replace middle-management jobs with AI, they'll be happy to do so.

I'm thinking the real resistance to that is that they worry (correctly) that employees will quit en masse when told their "manager" is actually an AI.

[safe dragon]

positive: no more middle management
con: you now no longer have the natural progression for people to grow into upper management positions

[marble jewel]

By their thought process, that's probably the intention

[safe dragon]

my manager is great dude and my job would be significantly worse if he wasn't there

[rotund violet]

Ehh, it's extremely rare that "IC" employees ever grow into upper management. Few end up in low-level management, even fewer get to even mid-level management.

The path to an executive position is to start your own company.

[safe dragon]

my manager is basically the guy who knows where to pull the strings to get something actually done instead of have it land in a to do list

very handy

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, Framework

[marble jewel]

https://hbr.org/2024/09/ai-can-mostly-outperform-human-ceos

[rotund violet]

Yeah, I'm not really buying it. Consider that this experiment is being run by Harvard MBA types, who are the exact sort of people who need to be kept far away from executive positions. I suppose they're probably right to conclude that AI can replace them, but they aren't going to be replacing Larry Page or Elon Musk.

But hey, we'll see. I'm sure some enterprising board of directors, somewhere out there, will be tempted enough by the possibility of eliminating $100 million anually from their operating budget. And then we'll have real-world data.

[strange copper]

Ai can't replace Elon musk but only bc no computer can replicate whatever crazy things go on in that man's head

Maybe if we trained it exclusively on reddit or something

[rotund violet]

Such as? Seems to me to be more or less like all the old industrialists of the 20s-80s. Where is the crazy?

[strange copper]

Are u american

[rotund violet]

Yes.

[fleet wren]

the man claims to be a god at Path of Exile 2 to impress chuds while getting exposed to have others boost his account, before livestreaming himself repeatedly dying to the tutorial boss

[strange copper]

Thank u selph

[fleet wren]

oh yeah, and the debacle around the Thai cave divers a couple years prior

[strange copper]

I was trying to think of something that didn't border on politics

[rotund violet]

So... he's a bad CEO because he's not as good at a video game as he once claimed?

[fleet wren]

and those are only two things at the top of my mind

[sand frost]

My impression is that many CEOs secretly have the job of “schmooze to raise money”

Which is something that sounds difficult to AI

(This impression is based on startups mostly)

[strange copper]

I think I'm curious to know what makes him a good ceo

[rotund violet]

How about... making tons of money and getting things done that everyone said was impossible, like creating reusable rockets?

Also having employees that are apparently insanely loyal.

[strange copper]

He's too busy involving himself in politics to be a full time ceo

[fleet wren]

I'm skeptical that if he can run 5 companies while still having time to tweet 500 times a day and be bad at video games that his job isn't easily replaceable

[strange copper]

Elon doesn't make rockets anyway. His engineers do

[rotund violet]

Sure, I guess we can say that right now he's distracted from his CEO duties, but he's been involved in politics for all of 6 months and was a CEO for over a decade. Aside from the recency bias and politically-adjacent gripes, what's the issue?

[strange copper]

He bought Twitter and immediately tanked it

[rotund violet]

Honestly, I shouldn't even dignify this with a response, but do you think those engineers just appeared by magic? Why couldn't NASA do it?

[strange copper]

Nasa relies on government funding lol

[rotund violet]

OK, go ahead and explain. Tanked it how? Seems to me he found a way to cut 80% of the expenses and make it a lot more profitable.

[strange copper]

And the government doesn't fund jt

[rotund violet]

Ok, this debate is clearly a waste of time, let's just drop it.

[strange copper]

Whatever lol

[fleet wren]

anything can be profitable when you cut 80% of the expenses while only cutting 75% of ads revenue due to publishers abandoning it in droves
and as someone severely terminally online, Twitter during the transition period was a mess. apps/livestreams crashing, AI bots infesting the comments (they still do)

[rotund violet]

Twitter was a mess before the transition period.

[strange copper]

Not everything is about money imo

[rotund violet]

The main thing the transition did was bring it all to light.

[strange copper]

We should rewrite Twitter in rust

[cinder karma]

peeks in

[fleet wren]

and great, nothing in terms of basic social networking functionality or discovery improved, but at least you can ping a chatbot now
the only thing the X purchase did was really reducing twitter to maintenance mode and having the team to match
(and of course get him a medium to influence US-whoops, rule breaking stuff)

[cinder karma]

Well. I get to be happy most of my trainings were either text files or PowerPoint slides

[rotund violet]

Indeed. I'd be the first to say that the acquisition of Twitter had very little to do with making money.

[cinder karma]

I really enjoyed the presentation a coworker put together over soldering

[strange copper]

Dang mine are all videos

[cinder karma]

I love it when people get to nerd out about things

Anyways

[strange copper]

Atra can I ask what kinda work u do

[cinder karma]

I see you guys were having a conversation I want no part in. So enjoy! I'll go back to biting my nails over the s&p500

[red crest]

atra! you're orange!

[strange copper]

No I'm done with it, tell me about ur job lol

[cinder karma]

We design chips 😛

[strange copper]

Ooooo

[safe dragon]

not the tasty variety I imagine

[rotund violet]

The S&P will recover. Markets respond to uncertainty, will recover when the uncertainty goes away.

[strange copper]

If metal is tasty then maybe!

(Sorry for the ping there)

[safe dragon]

blocked and reported

[strange copper]

Naurrr

Back to my bowl of aluminum chips i go 😔

[cinder karma]

So. Fundamentally I do think it'll recover eventually, but I would like to buy a house before "eventually"

So, see, "biting my nails"

[rotund violet]

Unfortunately stock markets only reliably go up on an "eventual" timeline... if you can't wait that long, best to have a different income source.

[dusty pollen]

oh nothing specific, just a creator (who tbf I've seen spout plenty of bullshit about pretty much every topic under the sun) spouting his bullshit about tech too

iirc I once saw him say that "the reason british dogs are better trained" (are they?) "is that british people are inherently more polite" or some shit

[rotund violet]

Though personally, I see this as extremely temporary, like less than a few months temporary.

[dusty pollen]

...wasn't atra always orange

[marble jewel]

If you're in the market for a house, mortgage rates are slightly lower than they've been. So it's actually more ideal to buy now than it has been over the past few years.

[strange copper]

Yeah but u gotta afford the upfront cost and all still surely

[red crest]

yes but atra always tells me im purple so im just making us even

[dusty pollen]

I thought I was going crazy(er than usual)

[rotund violet]

Really, the best way to get into the housing market is to buy something in your price range now, and flip/move later when your price range changes.

[strange copper]

I also second guessed it lol

[safe dragon]

I bought my place during record low interest rates a few years ago (1.37% interest rate)

[rotund violet]

In general, when housing bubbles anywhere, it bubbles everywhere. So even if you buy at a high point, and the value goes down, if you decide you want to upscale later then your future "dream house" will also go down.

[dusty pollen]

I got one of those help to buy ISAs the week before they stopped giving them out which should allow me to get a fairly large amount of money from the uk government towards a starter home as long as I buy before 2030

which is helping me feel a bit calmer

[marble jewel]

I bought my house when interest was still pretty high, but have a mortgage that's well within my comfort level, but I was able to take advantage of the current market to save another $500/month based on getting a lower rate. So that's nice.

[strange copper]

I'm not retiring any time soon but for fun I looked at the graph on my retirement accounts and I was just like 💀

Ik it doesn't matter now but rip anyone retiring soon ig lol

[dusty pollen]

I feel like retiring these days is a myth

[safe dragon]

my monthly mortgage payment is lower than the rent of most social housing projects honestly

[rotund violet]

That's what I mean; people say "I can't afford a house", they really mean "I can't afford the kind of house I'd like to have" which tends to be driven by rental habits.

[strange copper]

Shhhhh just one more year

[marble jewel]

the good thing about the interest being high at the time was that I had no competition for my house, so my offer was quickly accepted and I had keys within a couple weeks

[safe dragon]

are we retiring in 2026?

I thought I had like 40 years of work left

[strange copper]

I could retire in 2026 if I also plan to no longer need money ever in 2026

[marble jewel]

I'm planning for an early retirement, but how early just depends on how quickly my portfolio will bounce back

[rotund violet]

I've lived in some very poor areas and somehow, people manage to own property. Sometimes it's a trailer, or sometimes they even do the van life thing (apparently they make some really nice RVs these days, I wouldn't do it but two people I know swear by it and say it's the best decision they ever made).

[rotund violet]

Most people can live on less than $30k/year when no debt is involved.

[strange copper]

In what city

In some cities sure

I agree many ppl spend well outside their means but

[rotund violet]

In almost any city. If you go out to a rural area, you can bring that down to $15-$20k.

[dusty pollen]

$30k/year is still pushing it even for a single person in some areas of London

most areas of London really

[strange copper]

In a lot of the big cities I think of I agree lol

[dusty pollen]

how much is that in gbp, anyway

[rotund violet]

Again, I said "no debt", that means no mortgage, so what difference does location make? Some small differences in things like insurance rates, mostly.

[safe dragon]

12 pounds

[dusty pollen]

.wolfram $30,000USD in GBP

[heavy dagger]

£23214.67 (British pounds) (April 9, 2025)

[safe dragon]

darn I was close

[dusty pollen]

oh yeah that's definitely pushing it in London

[strange copper]

Does the g stand for great

[safe dragon]

goated british pound

[dusty pollen]

yup, great british pound

[dusty pollen]

if we're going that far, most people could live on £0/year if they also had all their bills and food paid for but regardless, cost of living is about a lot more than housing

[strange copper]

Even just looking at housing with roommates in my city, 30k is pushing it lol

[marble jewel]

Not that it's what this info is used to indicate, but 30k is above the poverty threshold for an individual https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/dd73d4f00d8a819d10b2fdb70d254f7b/detailed-guidelines-2025.pdf

[dusty pollen]

food is just more expensive in some areas for example. It was always interesting seeing the difference in prices between my uni city (which is still relatively expensive) and even the outer parts of London

[rotund violet]

What part of "no debt" was unclear? You have to own all your property for retirement to be viable.

[strange copper]

Yeah i mean it's probably fine in many places but you'd be struggling where I live

[strange copper]

I wasn't aware rent counted as debt but regardless there's no need to be so aggressive

[marble jewel]

It probably consists of a diet of rice, beans, and ramen, and hobbies like hiking

[safe dragon]

idk man those hiking shoes are expensive

[marble jewel]

barefoot hiking

[strange copper]

I've heard of barefoot running but...

The splinters dude

[rotund violet]

Technically it's worse than debt, since you have to pay but you're not building up any equity.

[dusty pollen]

so... you'd be able to live on £30k plus a sizable net worth

[marble jewel]

oh and if you get any injuries, you just rub dirt in it

[safe dragon]

barefoot hiking sounds like a disaster waiting to happen

we're not hobbits I'm afraid

[marble jewel]

hiking too risky, marching in place is much safer

[dusty pollen]

barefoot hiking must be nice if you live somewhere that isn't a city but still paved any other option sounds like a nightmare

[safe dragon]

I suggest nearly free hobbies like watching people in the park

[rotund violet]

On this: there's a lot of meat and other quality food you can eat for next to nothing.

[dusty pollen]

(honestly if you have enough money to buy a house without a mortgage, you actually probably WOULD be able to live on £0/year by getting a mortgage and investing the rest of the money in something that yields you enough per year to live off of)

[marble jewel]

seriously though, Minecraft and Stardew Valley have been one of the best hobbies for providing me endless entertainment for only the initial cost

[dusty pollen]

what does next to nothing count at? because in London, meat is expensive

[strange copper]

Same here 😭

[rotund violet]

Sure, you won't be eating ribeye every night at that income level, but if you like chicken thighs, flank steak, the occasional gizzards and livers, it's totally doable.

[dusty pollen]

...how much are chicken thighs and livers where you are, focustense?

[rotund violet]

Same with hobbies, as you pointed out; there are some very inexpensive hobbies you can acquire for only a modest capital cost, and after that they're basically free.

[strange copper]

Chicken thighs are more expensive than breasts nowadays aren't they

[safe dragon]

I was curious about my spending in 2024 and weirdly it's almost exactly that 30k. Obviously I live in a completely different country and any metrics for where I live are meaningless elsewhere

[safe dragon]

it's weird how that happened but yeah same here

[rotund violet]

Nah, thighs are like $10 for a mega pack of 10-12.

[dusty pollen]

because I love both and they've both been my staple meats at various points but two servings of liver were like £3 and chicken was more expensive

[rotund violet]

It's like, $1 per 6 oz thigh.

[strange copper]

Wow we do not live in the same city that's for sure

[marble jewel]

Rice, beans, and potatoes are the food sources that make most of my meals more affordable while I portion out the good stuff

[strange copper]

I am happy you can acquire cheap groceries

[rotund violet]

This is standard Walmart pricing, my dude.

[marble jewel]

Although I buy my meats once every month or two, and fill up my chest freezer

[strange copper]

I do not have a Walmart near me lol

[dusty pollen]

you know supermarkets change their price from location to location, right?

[strange copper]

Nor a car

[dusty pollen]

like even within the same city

[rotund violet]

I'll clarify that these are bone-in, skin-on... the boneless skinless ones cost more, for some reason that is baffling to me since they offer much less nutritional value.

[dusty pollen]

again, one of the most interesting things about moving to uni and back was comparing just how different the prices were between locations of the same chain

[strange copper]

Iy takes more labor to take the bone out

[marble jewel]

There once was a time where lobster was considered to be the cockroach of the sea, and it was food for the poors

[rotund violet]

What do you have if not Walmart - Safeway? Publix? They're all pretty similar in their pricing, normally.

[marble jewel]

Food trends can make things more or less expensive

[strange copper]

I have Safeway and my prices are not like yours

[rotund violet]

(Lobster is the cockroach of the sea, that hasn't changed.)

[marble jewel]

oxtail used to be cheaper beef

[strange copper]

I do love my coupons tho

[marble jewel]

I tend to buy whole roasts, and carve out the steaks myself

I do a whole home butcher thing which saves me some money

[rotund violet]

I'd like to look this up on Safeway but their site is apparently broken.

[rain apex]

poutry off topic...

[waxen cliff]

I don't think chicken thighs with bones and everything (or entire chickens even) are really cheaper than the breast without bones and skin
Least not per kg.

[rotund violet]

Ok, I found it. At the Mountain View Safeway, you can get a 4.5 lb pack of thighs for $11.

[marble jewel]

My last trip to the grocery store, pork was the cheapest meat protein per pound, so I stocked up on that

[rotund violet]

Maybe it's more expensive in, I don't know, Los Altos or something, where the billionaires live? But it can't be that much more.

[waxen cliff]

Prices range from grocery to grocery and country to country.

[marble jewel]

When I lived in Texas, meats were a lot cheaper than the pacific northwest

[waxen cliff]

Something costing 5€ here might translate to 10€ elsewhere.

[rotund violet]

That's why I looked up the Mountain View location; it's not where I live, but it's going to be one of the priciest.

That's Silicon Valley pricing, it doesn't get much higher.

Across most of the US, $5k is a reasonable annual food budget, $8-10k if you eat really fancy - this is assuming you actually prepare your own food and don't eat at restaurants, which will jack the price up 3-5x.

I keep it well under $10k and I'm eating ribeyes once a week and pasture-raised eggs every morning.

[waxen cliff]

5k feels a bit on the low end, at least for here abouts. But I never really looked at annual costs.
It also depends on whether you get some expensive brands or just local grocery brands.

[rotund violet]

My figure is also based on zero processed/convenience foods.

[dusty pollen]

so not only you need to own a home with no mortgage to be able to live on $30k/year, you need to own one with a functional kitchen, which itself is actually something a lot of people don't have nowadays (ik, it's crazy)

[waxen cliff]

Don't all flats or homes come with a functional kitchen?

[rotund violet]

Also no soda, beer, or other vices. I guess if you want those it'll add a fair amount.

[marble jewel]

My grocery budget (which feeds 2 people daily on average) works out to about $14k/year so that's pretty close. It's all home cooked, and we enjoy good quality food.

[rotund violet]

(I do like my whiskey, but I only actually drink it once every month or two)

[waxen cliff]

Yeah, if you take the absolute minimum you might get away with 5k per year.

[dusty pollen]

when I was in uni a very decent part of the student body had no access to a kitchen, but even outside of that, there are a lot of ways to end up with no access to a usable kitchen

[safe dragon]

my frame of reference is meaningless since I live in a different country but I used to always be intrigued by the claim I saw floating around a lot at the time (in the US) that people would eat fast food cause it was cheaper than cooking which sounded bizarre to me

[rotund violet]

Yes, $5k is definitely the "budget" end of food prep, you won't be eating a lot of gourmet meals but you can stay healthy.

$7.5k per person is midrange, it's very comfortable, assuming you prepare your own food and avoid convenience foods, like Matt said.

[waxen cliff]

Interesting. Here abouts everything has a functional kitchen usually.
If you live in university residents you might end up with having a dozen people share one kitchen, but you still have one.

[strange copper]

i think nowadays it's not really cheaper but a lot of the reason tends to be convenience. if you work a 10 hour day then have to come home and care for a family by driving your kids to practice, etc., it doesn't leave much cooking time. there are certainly quick and easy meals, but you also have to consider shopping for them, doing dishes, etc.

[safe dragon]

my first student room thing had a stove that was broken and a microwave

[rotund violet]

I don't recall having a kitchen in the dorms, but that was only when I was a freshman and we all ate from the university's cafeteria anyway. From the year after, we always rented houses (usually 4-6 to a house) and they always had full kitchens. Not nice kitchens, but functional ones.

[marble jewel]

I ate on a significantly lower budget when I was in my early-20s and lived in an apartment with coworkers. It was mostly rice and ramen every day.

[waxen cliff]

Do I get to rename #modded-stardew into linguist-farmers?

[safe dragon]

I'm pretty sure that place was not up to building code but had to take what I could get

[crystal wren]

This nearly became philosophy-off-topic very recently!

[marble jewel]

this channel is mostly programmers-off-topic, so just three letters difference

[rotund violet]

Some states here basically have no building code.

[marble jewel]

We're programmers who talk about things to that don't fit anywhere else

[waxen cliff]

I'm not a programmer

I see my way out /j

[safe dragon]

it's ok we can still talk about the meaning of free will

[rotund violet]

Well honestly, programmers are the optimizing sort and many do have goals to retire early, I'd say more commonly than other professions.

[marble jewel]

Before this channel, making mods would turn into these types of discussions, so this just gave us a place to keep the discussions out of that channel

[crystal wren]

It really does serve that purpose well.

[marble jewel]

(and it still does from time to time)

[safe dragon]

I don't necessarily have a goal to retire early but I earn significantly more than I spend so it's going well anyway

[dusty pollen]

it was so bad that the college (college being a subcampus of the university, not the whole thing) I was in had to bring in some shipping containers into a small empty area to turn into makeshift kitchens during covid because even if as many people ate in hall as it could accommodate, there was still not nearly enough kitchen space in the college for everyone remaining 💀

[marble jewel]

My retirement goal is to enjoy things like traveling more while my body is still capable of doing stuff

[safe dragon]

if you're like my mom that ends at like 45 so let's hope you're luckier

I know 70+ year old who go on hiking holidays

[rain apex]

My grandma is up and about till like 80

[rotund violet]

Best way to prolong that is to lift.

[marble jewel]

I hope by the time I retire, I still have plenty of years left to do things without too many limitations

I've got a home gym that I probably need to use more consistently

[dusty pollen]

are you going to pay for the operation for my fucked up joints cracking under the pressure or will the nhs have to cover that /lh

[rotund violet]

(Another hobby that's a bit capital-intensive but costs next to nothing to maintain)

[waxen cliff]

that sounds rough ._.

[marble jewel]

The best shape I ever got into was with a personal trainer, and then COVID happened, and I kind of let myself go

[waxen cliff]

Be like me and never be in shape /j

[rain apex]

I don't think I actually enjoy things like traveling though

[cinder karma]

Re: retirement

[safe dragon]

I walk 10k steps fairly regularly but apart from that I'm not in great shape

[cinder karma]

This is actually something I've talked with my boss with

[marble jewel]

Even in my full kitchen now, my airfryer combo machine is a powerhouse, I'll cook whole meals in it

[waxen cliff]

But you do remind me that I wanted to troubleshoot carry chests, Faux.
For some reason it doesn't entirely work for me
[back to off-topic]

[marble jewel]

That sounds suspiciously on topic

Gonna report you to a junimo

[waxen cliff]

noooo

[dusty pollen]

I had kitchen access almost the whole time (had to use the container kitchen one year but luckily it was one of the years it was still there) but yeah it's crazy! and we technically were sharing between 20+ people per kitchen (though most never used it)

[safe dragon]

were they ok with the idea that you'd eventually retire

I lived almost solely off of microwave meals in uni with some air fryer stuff in between

and of course cup ramen

[dusty pollen]

cup ramen was a lifesaver at uni

[cinder karma]

Oh, like uh

I'm never going to retire until my mind or body forces me to

[safe dragon]

oh

[cinder karma]

We're both the type that would be bored to death in retirement

[crystal wren]

I want to be able to retire as soon as possible, but I don't see myself ever stopping doing the things.

[marble jewel]

I may not retire, but if I'm working past "retirement" it would be doing something that fulfills me more

[safe dragon]

if I continue at my current job I'll have 38 vacation days to use a year which is plenty to do things without retiring

actual vacation days too not the "but you can't actually use them" days

[marble jewel]

Ideally, any job I'd be doing post-retirement would be completely on my own terms. So preferably I'd own a business or something.

Don't want to be clocking hours for "the man"

[crystal wren]

Be the man. Clock in hours for yourself.

[rotund violet]

Retirement doesn't necessarily mean sitting around doing nothing.

[safe dragon]

my current place seems to have a lot of retired ex employees show up every once in a while to help out with something

[safe dragon]

my dad helps out at the library and my mom uh... games a lot

she's playing wargroove rn

tbh I think I did get lucky so far but even ignoring that I do feel like the Netherlands is culturally a lot less work obsessed than the US mentality

[marble jewel]

The US is notorious for being workaholics

[crystal wren]

I was gonna say, that sounds like a very low bar.

[safe dragon]

it's funny cause by European standards the Dutch are sometimes called workaholics

[cinder karma]

I've watched too many relatives take early retirement and fall apart immediately afterwards

Never

[marble jewel]

My aunt+uncle retired a bit ago and they’ve been traveling the world

[safe dragon]

it's ok... when I compare y'all to like, the Philippines or something you can see it could be worse still!

work every Saturday too

[crystal wren]

I'm American now!

[safe dragon]

oh yeah idk where any of you live

I assume anyone in the internet is American till shown otherwise despite not being American myself

[crystal wren]

Well, it's 12:16 right now. As in midnight.

[safe dragon]

ah yes Portuguese

[rotund violet]

Have you been to Italy, France or Spain?

[safe dragon]

all 3 yeah

several times each

[rotund violet]

I'd say the Dutch are workaholics by comparison.

[safe dragon]

yup

[ivory shadow]

DecidedlyAmerican 🇺🇸

[rotund violet]

For example, Spanish train schedules are merely rough guidelines.

[safe dragon]

I actually have no notion of what British work culture is

[dusty pollen]

knowing what region you live in DH I feel like you'd be more offended if someone called you a Londoner than an american

[rotund violet]

If it says 4 pm, it might mean 4:30 pm, or 6:30 pm.

[strange copper]

just like my bus system /lh

[safe dragon]

when I took a train in Italy recently we were one of the luckiest cause our train was only 1.5 hours late

[crystal wren]

That's the natural order of things, of course!

[dusty pollen]

the real question is if you're far enough north to have strong opinions about the flavour of tap water

[safe dragon]

ah yes very localized stereotypes

[cinder karma]

Meanwhile Chinese trains

Always on time.

[dusty pollen]

this isn't even a stereotype, I've just been subjected to that conversation too many times

[cinder karma]

So many of them 🤗

[safe dragon]

pro tip: lead pipes make your tap water sweeter

[rotund violet]

(if you get hit in the head with one, you mean?)

[crystal wren]

Let's see... under a 2 hour drive to the Scottish border?

[dusty pollen]

well, do you have strong opinions about the flavour of tap water?

[crystal wren]

Unfortunately not northern enough to have that sweet Scottish tap water, th-

Oh no...

[dusty pollen]

I'll take that as a yes

[safe dragon]

it happens

I have opinions about the flavor of tap water and I'm not even in the UK

latitude wise I might be located about right though

[dusty pollen]

(tap water quality in the UK tends to be worse the further south you get, so people from the north tend to have strong opinions about London water)

[pliant snow]

but really, they blame the french, somehow

[safe dragon]

those poor folks in Plymouth

[dusty pollen]

at uni the tap water was so bad it had those oil slick rainbows in it

idek how they managed that

[safe dragon]

wtf

[dusty pollen]

but that was probably more plumbing than anything else

[safe dragon]

are you sure you didn't have soap leaking into your water supply

[dusty pollen]

lead seems likelier ngl

(/hj)

[safe dragon]

ah for the sweet taste

Utrecht has the best tap water I've had

they've got a natural source so they're cheating

[crystal wren]

I know someone from there!

I'll pass along the compliment.

[safe dragon]

I also lived there

[dusty pollen]

that's why tap water is better up north though! the scottish highlands are literally where bottled water companies collect water from

[crystal wren]

Birmingham also has shockingly good tap water, though. They get that Welsh water.

[dusty pollen]

whereas down here the water company serving London and most of the area around it is called Thames Water and I think that says a lot about the quality

[safe dragon]

Utrecht gets theirs from the same source as a company called Bar-le-Duc who was primarily known for selling drinking water that's safe for pregnant women

back when that wasn't the norm yet anyway...

[pliant snow]

w-was the rest of the water not safe for pregnant women before

[safe dragon]

if you're very careful about everything then yes

[cinder karma]

Just boil it

[safe dragon]

that's not boiling away the minerals

[cinder karma]

Boil it harder

[crystal wren]

Then drink the steam condensate, yeah. Problem solved.

[cinder karma]

Re: kitchen. Tbh I think I would be happier with a pair of induction hot plates over a stove

But the oven and dishwasher

[dusty pollen]

induction has its ups and downs ngl, my parents have an induction stove and idk how much I prefer it over electric

[crystal wren]

If I can only have one type, I'm picking induction I think.

[dusty pollen]

I know a lot of chefs hate induction but I am decidedly not a chef

[rotund violet]

Induction's great, but (a) you can get induction on the actual stove and (b) you still need a range hood.

I still prefer gas, frankly, but induction's a close second.

[crystal wren]

Hoods are so rare here.

[dusty pollen]

honestly at this point having used all types I think I would just pick the cheapest induction gets so annoying sometimes

[rotund violet]

How can you not have a range hood? Where does the smoke go?

[crystal wren]

Fantastic question. The answer is everywhere.

[dusty pollen]

directly to the smoke alarm, in my experience

[rotund violet]

Yikes, I think that would actually be against the building code here in most states.

[dusty pollen]

part of it is just that houses here are built very differently to the states

so the risks and downsides are different

[rotund violet]

I have noticed that a lot of modern architects don't seem to understand what a kitchen is for, and design them entirely for useless aesthetics.

[dusty pollen]

(you still face mould issues though so I'm absolutely pro steam hood)

[rotund violet]

That trend probably started with the glass cooktops.

[dusty pollen]

if anything, the lack of hoods is due to houses being old

[crystal wren]

Old and brick.

[dusty pollen]

yup

[rotund violet]

You can run ductwork through brick.

[dusty pollen]

the house I'm in right now probably didn't have electric wiring when it was first built

[rotund violet]

And if you're that desperate not to run ductwork, there are (terrible) ductless hoods.

[cinder karma]

Tbh a good 50% of me cooking is instant pot or oven

[dusty pollen]

and also is made mostly of concrete which makes running things really annoying

[dusty pollen]

(and also most people can't afford the cost of running said ductwork ngl)

[dusty pollen]

now what's the rule for listed buildings

[crystal wren]

So post 2006, it needs to be vented externally and not just filtered it seems.

[dusty pollen]

I feel like half the UK is listed atp (I don't live in a listed building but so much is)

knew someone who couldn't replace their windows with double-paned glass for insulation just because their flat was listed

[rain apex]

what does listed mean

[dusty pollen]

marked as historically significant so you aren't allowed to change it much

historically significant or just old sometimes

[rotund violet]

This is all bringing back painful memories of those horrible inefficient microwave hoods, and having to run out waving a towel in front of un-silenceable smoke detectors every time I wanted to sear a steak.

[dusty pollen]

(obviously nothing built after 2006 is listed haha)

(but it's worth remembering the UK gets much less new construction than the US does)

[crystal wren]

To be semi related, our windows are generally also very weird compared to standard American windows.

[cinder karma]

How so?

[rotund violet]

I didn't realize American windows had a standard. I suppose whatever is cheapest is most popular.

[cinder karma]

One thing I really want is dedicated line drying space tbh

That and garden

[crystal wren]

This is the norm.

[cinder karma]

Ooh!

Those look nice

I don't like the American kind much

[rotund violet]

What is the "American kind"? Sliding?

[cinder karma]

Yeah

[crystal wren]

Basically, yeah. At least in my mind?

[rotund violet]

I guess those are popular, though houses built in the 70s and possibly up to the 80s almost invariably had those silly crank windows.

That's where you unlatch it and then have to turn some crank to get it open or closed.

I've also seen both horizontal and vertical sliding windows. Yeah, probably barn-door type windows are not very common.

[crystal wren]

Vertical and horizontal swinging are equally common, just for reference.

Centre pane there would be static.

[sand frost]

american windows also have mesh screens

which i personally like

due to my ongoing feud with mosquitos

the mosquitos love my blood, my immune system hates their spit, i hate the massive itchy welts

[crystal wren]

Yeah, our windows make it very difficult to have screens or air conditioners... which we're starting to want more and more as it keeps getting hotter.

[cinder karma]

Elizabeth, as a member of the other major profession that never retires

[sand frost]

nerd?

is that a profession?

[cinder karma]

Professor haha

What is your opinion on retirement

[sand frost]

wait what's the other one

my opinion is that's a problem for future me

[marble jewel]

That's my same opinion on eating an entire pizza to myself

[sand frost]

my more serious opinion is that I have an excellent track record of having 3 million things to do at all times

and maybe one day retirement will be a thing, but I doubt I will stop doing all the things

they might just be things less work-oriented

[rotund violet]

That's what I was saying earlier, retirement might just mean you stop working for a "boss" as such. Might still keep very busy, might even be earning "work-ish" income, but on your own time and your own terms.

[sand frost]

I finally backread for context: is this something common in your profession as a whole?

Like is this Atra inherent property or is this Atra job property

[cinder karma]

Pretty common yeah

[sand frost]

Interesting, I hadn’t heard that stereotype

[cinder karma]

I'm amused that according to morningstar, one of my top twenty stocks is...a chocolate company

(The other 19 are expected. Like appl, etc.)

[sand frost]

Chocolate probably has durable demand

[past dawn]

the Nexus wont let me hide my mod for being obsolete because it wants to name the replacement mod and it doesn't allow for the reason to be that it's part of the vanilla game.

🫠

[crystal wren]

I believe you can get in contact with them and they can add a custom reason, which is a bit of a pain.

[dusty pollen]

does the replacement mod have to be a valid nexus mod? because you could always just name the “replacement mod” as <vanilla game version whatever>

[past dawn]

It has to be valid on the nexus

I like having the stats of 5.4K downloads so I don't want to delete it either

[worn remnant]

if you delete ("delete") the mod, does your profile's download count go down accordingly?

[sand frost]

Make the replacement content patcher

That’s basically the vanilla game

This is 25% joke 75% serious

[marble jewel]

The downside to putting someone else's mod as a replacement when it isn't is that it can lead to harrassment of that mod author

When I took down Better Chests and directed users to Convenient Inventory, they were bombarded with comments about Convenient not doing X feature

[past dawn]

if this was about a stardew mod I'd be in the correct channel

this is a No Man's Sky mod

that's why I'm in off topic programming

And my mod for removing camera shake effects is obselete because they added those settings to the base game

[sand frost]

Oh lmao

I just assumed it was stardew and we were lost

[past dawn]

it's more a complaint about Nexus not having the edge case that your mod becomes official to the game

it's definitely an adge case but common for accessibility mods

though I'm happy I don't have to maintain a mod just so I can play a game without barfing lol

[cinder karma]

Tbh mod eaten by game is a good thing in my book

[frosty echo]

Can you pick... the same mod?

[past dawn]

Ah yes, let me point the redirrect for a hidden mod... to the hidden mod.

genius

masterful gambit

[cinder karma]

Nexus used to have a like a suggestions

Obsolete - eaten by game could be suggested

Hi guys

My work server is sad

How are y'all doing

[past dawn]

doing good, just getting my MMO weeklies in

I tried mobile stardew... it was bad

[hushed sage]

I’m disabled and playing the computer version is actually harder for me

[past dawn]

fair enough

[hushed sage]

Plus, I like playing in bed

[past dawn]

I play it on steam deck mostly so I know that feeling

[ivory shadow]

This is not a channel for talking about Stardew

[past dawn]

the mobile controls jsut felt really bad to use

[ivory shadow]

Lol

[past dawn]

also true

[hushed sage]

Oh am I on the wrong channel? Sorry, I thought we were talking about the programming of the game.

[past dawn]

Sooo I'm already getting better at C# and expanding my program

making a basic rendering loop to par with my frame buffer to get the stuff on screen animated 😄

[past dawn]

this is more to talk about programming in general unrelated to stardew

[hushed sage]

Oh I see, my bad, thanks for letting me know

[past dawn]

like I started learning C# a few days ago and already have a working render engine from scratch

it's not a "good" rendering engine XD

[past dawn]

#stardew-spoilers is probs a good place to talk about the game

[hushed sage]

I did, sorry about that

[lethal walrus]

you can just ask staff to hide it and they can do a custom message https://pillow.is-a-cutie.xyz/6gtLBx6NBe

[past dawn]

🫠

well assuming I don't have crippling anxiety about asking them, how would I ask them?

[rain apex]

Picky is on this server u can just ping i feel

[lethal walrus]

i just asked in #site-help-feedback in the discord iirc

that would probably work too

[rain apex]

Or dm since it not sdv

[pliant snow]

What service are you hosting for this?

[marble jewel]

Picoshare has been my simple, self-hosted, image-sharing service

[lethal walrus]

https://nest.rip if you mean the images

github pages if you mean xnb.pillow.rocks

[marble jewel]

Although my picoshare is backed by bucket storage, which you can also self-host, but I'm using backblaze b2

[pliant snow]

Yeah the images thing

[marble jewel]

I'm thinking about adding a Trello-like service to my homelab stack

Anyone have any hands on experience with one of those?

[pliant snow]

oh picoshare looks nice too

I only briefly played around with Trello itself, I haven't looked at any self-hosted ones

I think nextcloud does, but I do not like hosting nextcloud

[marble jewel]

I'm mainly looking for a Kanban-type board, with cards and such. Not much more than that.

I found two the look promising -
https://planka.app/
https://wekan.github.io/

[cinder karma]

Any reason specific to host it yourself?

(Tbh my todo list is a mess rn)

[marble jewel]

To retain complete control of my data

[safe dragon]

shout-out to owning things

underrated

[cinder karma]

This is how my todo list works

1. Work uses an outlook calender for known meetings, and a todo task list in...onenote

2. My personal calender is in Google calender.

3. My personal todo list is on paper

God help me if I ever lose my bullet journal or my phone

[sand frost]

I have 2 different notes apps but i also use my inbox to keep track of some things

[safe dragon]

I have 2 note taking solutions

notepad++ and my supernote tablet

notepad++ is primarily for things I might want to share with someone else later

[cinder karma]

Yeah, we use onenote at work

What's a supernote

[safe dragon]

essentially an eink screen tablet made for note taking

it's completely overkill for me and definitely not worth the price for someone like me but I do love it

[cinder karma]

Ahhh okay

I'm a paper and pen person

Always have been

[safe dragon]

it's the closest you'll get to a pen and paper experience without actual pen and paper

but it's not like pen and paper is expensive or hard to come by

[sand frost]

One note did not impress me

It’s stupidly incompatible across devices for sharing notes

The formatting is ugly in the way that word is ugly

Not a ton of support for anything besides words

At least in a way that made any sense to me

Someone in the lab tried to share one with me and had to resort to exporting as pdf

[cinder karma]

(I am not impressed by one note either - you can hear me screaming every time I touch SharePoint - but it is what work uses so I deal.)

My current favorite system is literally pen and paper

[safe dragon]

I still know nothing about sharepoint other than that someone on my team has been fighting for like 2 months to update to a newer version of sharepoint while cursing about how microsoft somehow removed features since the old version

it's also apparently incredibly buggy

I still don't really understand what it is though

it just seems to be a website you can put pages on?

it also seems to have abandoned support for on-premise hosting despite seemingly like 99% of the reason to use it is for intranet?

[cinder karma]

Button, if you want to know about some weird ass fun shit with work software, the two simulators I use accept slightly, slightly different inputs

And instead of failing nicely. It gives weird issues like "invalid format string: <incoherent nonsense>"

[zenith lichen]

I’ve created a variation of somebody else’s mods that adds more granularity to what it introduces. Nothing big, just changes to the content.json. the mod’s page says to ask before uploading anything that includes the mod. I contacted the mod author to ask if I could upload my variation of their mods, but its been a while and they haven’t responded. How long do you think I should wait?

[lethal walrus]

oh my on topic conversation this is horrible /s /lh

better to ask it in #making-mods-general

[crystal wren]

Until you directly get permission, and absolutely no sooner!

(Also what Pillow said. )

[zenith lichen]

Sorry i thought this was the appropriate venue foe this question

[cinder karma]

Speak of the devil

[safe dragon]

do not speak of the devil for it listens

[cinder karma]

AMS: fatal error 😦
Spectre: you dumbdumb t3<t2

[devout vault]

something something spacecore content engine that I never made usable for content packs

@cinder karma You're a science person and not a math person now? Blasphemy (even if it is more accurate)

[safe dragon]

hmmm I might set up jellyfin even though I thought had no use for it

apparently the tool I use to make japanese flashcards from subtitles supports jellyfin

I currently rely on netflix but it'd be nice to have something for stuff not available there

[safe dragon]

docker networking logic continues to be an enigma

[pliant snow]

what are you trying to do

[safe dragon]

something not to be discussed in this server

but it has to do with jellyfin

[pliant snow]

uh huh

[safe dragon]

anyone here have any idea how one would debug strange inexplicable file permission issues in a docker container...
I am passing the right user in with the PUID and PGID environment flags in my docker compose and the folders it's presumably trying to access are writable for that user...

[safe dragon]

never mind I figured it out

something that I thought was a relative path wasn't and docker was just quietly making a folder in my root directory I didn't see

[dusty pollen]

yeah it's an intranet service iirc

[dusty pollen]

ooo we haven't had a spam/scam message here in a few weeks now iirc, was the streak just broken?

[devout vault]

Oh? Well, have a cursed screenshot of a webtoon instead

[dusty pollen]

where’s that one website pillow linked to, hold on

https://lyra.horse/css-clicker/

[devout vault]

Ah, I saw that recently and played through it

But that's HTML/CSS, which doesn't count

Though I'm still not sure how that's even possible

[lethal walrus]

a 5000 line long html file

which actually seems surprisingly short

[dusty pollen]

that seems… way too short, actually

then again from my understanding, this is what this person does pretty much? their blog doesn’t even use a blogging system, each of their posts are hand-built in html and css to be as lightweight as possible while still being interactive (and they apologise when something isn’t compatible with netscape)

[safe dragon]

I don't think my computer is compatible with netscape

[ivory shadow]

FedEx is an awful company and every time someone ships something to me with FedEx it's a terrible experience. I really wish businesses would let you pick which company things are shipped with.

On that note, my laptop is at the local FedEx hub, where it's been for an entire day. Don't know why they didn't deliver it today. This better not be like my computer parts back in December where it took them over a week to deliver something already at the local hub.

Strictly speaking it actually arrived at the local sort facility at 6am on Saturday, but I'm not counting Sunday against it since the package is flagged no delivery on weekends.

[pliant snow]

I would like to give a special shoutout to my new favorite Vim command :cd %:p:h

[ivory shadow]

My favorite and only known vim command is :cq

So I can go open a text editor that isn't more confusing than the git cli

Though I suppose vim commands aren't much worse than command palette nonsense in modern editors.

[fleet wren]

HTML/CSS is turing complete apparently

[dusty pollen]

I'm scared, what does this do

[lethal walrus]

yeah that's mostly their more recent stuff

though they've also done chrome cves and various other cool things (https://rebane2001.com/)

[dusty pollen]

"each person can only add one letter to this text"

as predicted, several foiled attempts at slurs, at least one actual slur, and the longest (by far) sucessful legible sentence is a rickroll

hello there using this to practic penetraton testingg can i really write anything i wantg ou should remove the racial slurs from this page or im just gonna try take down your server yay

[pliant snow]

It changes Vim's current directory to the directory the current buffer is in

[dusty pollen]

huh, fun

[pliant snow]

I set it to autorun every time I change buffer, so now I can actually open relative files

[dusty pollen]

me: why is steam showing me the prices in euros
check vpn
it once again decided the fastest server to connect to was in Belgium

[lethal walrus]

i've been on an isle of man vpn for the last day and for some reason things keep thinking i'm dutch

which makes even less sense because the server is actually in ireland

[dusty pollen]

...what makes it isle of man then

[lethal walrus]

i think they just try to spoof it to the ip lookup services

These geo-located regions will still be bare metal VPN servers located in safe data centers under privacy-respecting regulations as is our standard for performance. The key difference is that to provide the geo-located region, they will use an IP address registered to the target country to provide our users with the ability to geolocate to these locations safely and privately

[dusty pollen]

maybe they did the IP setting incorrectly?

[lethal walrus]

no because if i look up the ip it does actually return ireland as the country

[dusty pollen]

yeah, online ip lookup aggregators for one of that VPN provider's isle of man servers all return isle of man with one exception that returns ireland and they're all in the isle of man's assigned block range

weird

[lethal walrus]

aw i reconnected it and lost it

[safe dragon]

"man there's a lot of people on the isle of man"

[cinder karma]

I hate SVN

So badly

So much

Today's simple task

Stage all files in this folder EXCEPT the ones containing the word "cdslck"

Trivial in git

[dusty pollen]

how would you choose to do this in git, btw?

[cinder karma]

.gitignore

[dusty pollen]

oh you mean in the file name not the file itself

yeah that's really easy in git

[cinder karma]

I mean even in the file itself it's not terrible with xargs/grep

Find/xargs/grep

Svn however, if I try to stage in a directory I didn't explicitly add to svn, will complain

[dusty pollen]

yeah I was just about to say that lmao

before you typed that, I had this written out:

I would probably end up chaining a find command to an xargs command to a git command

[cinder karma]

And when I add thr directory, it adds all my lockfiles

So I have a command that searches out the lockfiles and deletes them from the svn

[dusty pollen]

does svn:ignore not work? stack overflow seems to believe it works nearly the same as gitignore

[cinder karma]

Ah! But you can only set that after adding the folder

"Okay, so set that to happen automatically from the .subversion/config" welp tried that too

[dusty pollen]

but you should be able to use wildcards, shouldn't you? or do they only work within the folder

[cinder karma]

In effect if I have not staged folder I cannot do anything to folder/file

[dusty pollen]

anyway at risk of being on topic, I have discovered today that alternative textures is witchcraft and I shall not be participating

[supple ether]

witchcraft how?

[dusty pollen]

bugs that can only be explained by demonic possession

[supple ether]

oh no

[dusty pollen]

(I put more details in mmg if you'd like to have a look)

[dusty pollen]

#making-mods-general message details here if you want

[terse crown]

does anyone know lua language

[supple ether]

I know some stuff but probably not enough to be useful

[pliant snow]

I know a fair amount

[ivory shadow]

I used to know a lot about lua, but through hard work and effort I've forgotten most of it

(I mean it too. Rewrote several work services that had lots of lua for some unholy reason. It's now TypeScript or C# depending on the use case.)

[supple ether]

I had to tinker with it for don't starve mods and computercraft and tbh I don't miss it. I never really got used to the whole tabular thing, or global variables

[marble jewel]

I'm trying to get into neovim, and a good part of customizing it requires familiarity with Lua. So can't say that I know it, but I'm learning it.

[pliant snow]

I've done quite a bit of game dev stuff in it. I'm actually a Lua fan

[marble jewel]

People who know it seems to really enjoy the language, so I'm looking forward to learning what earns it that sentiment

[cinder karma]

People....enjoy....lua?

[supple ether]

I've been thinking about tinkering with love2d, but I hate not having the compile-time safety of types.
I think there's language extensions though that add type enforcement, maybe I'll try it with one of those

[marble jewel]

That's what my limited research has found so far at least

[pliant snow]

I like the simplicity of it. You can learn like 90% of the language pretty quickly, as opposed to most other languages where I probably don't know half after years

[supple ether]

that is true

[rain apex]

I don't like how it is 1-index

[pliant snow]

Everyone complains about the 1-index, but aside from one (fairly common admittedly) usecase, it's never bothered me, you just get used to it

[rain apex]

It bothered me enough that back when i was doing wiki things i made literally anyone else do the lua

[marble jewel]

I dabbled in Lua before for a bit when I was doing a bit of Don't Starve Together modding

But that never got too far. My impression is it's simple but effective for what it does. Which I suppose is nice if that's what you're looking for.

Not everything needs layers and layers of abstractions and complexity.

[worn remnant]

doing a language and making it 1-index feels like an own goal to me. i don't think it makes the language easier to understand by any reasonable metric and it makes all the programmer types angry

[cinder karma]

cries in Matlab

[supple ether]

I think that's just because it's aimed at people with zero programming experience

the first thing in the list is thing #1

I don't like it, but I get it

[pliant snow]

Yeah, if anything I recall it being confusing when I was first learning to start at 0

its not ideal certainly, but I can live with it

[worn remnant]

i get it but i don't think the first thing being thing 0 is meaningfully harder or weirder

[rain apex]

That's a whole pointer you are wasting

[supple ether]

yeah, as I said, the main thing I don't like about lua is the lack of type enforcement, and by extension, IDE suggestions

[rain apex]

I assume they secretly do -1 eventually right

[pliant snow]

You can specify a 0th item in a table anyway, nothing stopping you

[supple ether]

I like my compile-time checks

[pliant snow]

dynamic typing was all the rage back then tbf, look at python or ruby or such which all came out around the same time

[marble jewel]

Someone needs to make a Typescript for Lua /s

[pliant snow]

there's a few

[supple ether]

I'm pretty sure that is actually a thing

[rain apex]

What r they called

[cinder karma]

Any language that thinks hashtables and arrays are the same is dead to me

[pliant snow]

luau and teal I think both have types

[marble jewel]

orly, I was joking, but not surprised that's a thing

[supple ether]

cough js cough

[pliant snow]

idk how popular teal is, but luau has a lot of attention

[supple ether]

oh yeah I've heard of luau

[cinder karma]

JS is dead to me

I'm not webdev flavored, wren

I taste like poisonous chemistry and regret

[supple ether]

I do web dev sometimes and js is still dead to me

if I had my way everything would be SSR and clever use of css selectors

[cinder karma]

If I had my way the internet may not exist oh wait

[supple ether]

most of my friends are on the internet, if I didn't have it I would be sad

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/community-dean-vr-i-cant-do-anything-funny-gif-12608557

If I had my way...

[cinder karma]

Matt

I don't get it

But I'm also dumb and live under a rock so

[terse crown]

My slide script isnt working and idk what the problem is with it

[pliant snow]

What do you mean by slide script

[terse crown]

like

sliding in a game

lets say while sprinting you want to slide

[pliant snow]

oh right

in Love2D?

[terse crown]

Roblox xD

[pliant snow]

I know nothing about roblox, but that's never stopped me before

[terse crown]

I mean, roblox uses lua

[marble jewel]

If I'm reading this right, Luau was originally made for Roblox...

[pliant snow]

Yeah

[terse crown]

or my browser is tweakin

[pliant snow]

It uses Lua, then they made their own kinda spinoff of Lua called Luau, but afaik they should be very similar

[marble jewel]

Yeah the variant is a superset of a particular Lua version, so identical other than whatever newer features it doesn't support

[pliant snow]

so what was the script?

[terse crown]

a slide script

but idk why it doesnt like work at all

[pliant snow]

we might need a bit more than that

[terse crown]

yee im afk rn tho so gimme a sec

[pliant snow]

I feel like tailscale has a million features I dont even know about

[marble jewel]

It really does. I’m trying to incorporate more of it into my homelab.

It could possibly replace my reverse proxy and even custom domain

[safe dragon]

gotta leave my comfort zone at work soon of writing code to sit with people to discuss CI/CD things

[zenith lichen]

That cant be right. Sonic 06 was made in lua

[pliant snow]

Luau, not lua

[safe dragon]

it's like Lua but more u-ey

[ivory shadow]

It's like Lua but with loose typing

[safe dragon]

a crime

[ivory shadow]

Better than no typing

[pliant snow]

here's a terrifying question

how do people organize their project folders

Do you just have one folder with every repo you've ever made

or are they organized better

[rain apex]

I put everything in a folder named Spaget

There's subfolder for what kind of project

[lethal walrus]

but on linux it's just ~/code/<project name>

[safe dragon]

i do just have a folder called programming with project folders

[pliant snow]

doing it by language is kinda interesting

I broke mine up by groups, and then the projects live under those categories

[safe dragon]

I used to do it by language but then I had a project with a frontend and backend written in different languages that I didn't want to split

[pliant snow]

gotta split up your website by html and css and js separately

[safe dragon]

someone somewhere has probably advocated for that in the past

[lethal walrus]

this is why I have "Websites" and "Mixed"

[safe dragon]

more elegant solution than giving up

[lethal walrus]

i've been on a belgium vpn (real server) for the last almost day, and I keep getting US ads.. I think youtube is having issues

[devout vault]

I have a "Programming" folder which has some projects at top level (like my game projects) and some in categories (like all my stardew modding stuff is in one folder)

Also, re: lua, roblox is what I normally associate it with since I used that before I did C++ (or even anything non-trivial in Game Maker). I remember learning how to use arrays after asking on the forums

[marble jewel]

I have a single repos folder, and every folder in there is a cloned repo or a repo for one of my own projects

I use a command launcher to launch a project by name

[sand frost]

VS made me a projects folder and I figured that was good enough for me

My C# stuff all goes there but I keep Java, Python, Matlab etc in different places

Usually categorized by purpose

[ivory shadow]

My laptop is here \o/

[safe dragon]

\o/

[ivory shadow]

(I say that now, but it arrived a couple hours ago.)

I've got Bazzite installed now, and I'm setting things up.

I know I saw some reviews saying that the laptop was big and clunky but as someone who hadn't upgraded my laptop in 10 years, this is smaller than my old laptop lol

[safe dragon]

maybe they came from a macbook

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, how dare a Framework laptop not be as thin as a macbook air

I'm enjoying Bazzite so far. Modern Linux distros are very friendly.

[pliant snow]

Is everything on Bazzite through the Discover manager? (and secretly all flatpaks?)

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, pretty much.

And KDE is such a competent desktop environment these days. It's a joy to use.

[pliant snow]

How much of the immutability do you have to worry about

[crystal wren]

I think KDE is my overall favourite. A tiled WM would be great, but I just don't have the patience to set one up exactly how I'd want it.

[pliant snow]

Those tiled WMs would be neat to use, if I didn't have to use them tiled

[crystal wren]

Yeah, that would be awesome.

https://tenor.com/xQPm.gif

[safe dragon]

awesomewm...

[ivory shadow]

Bazzite has a read only root filesystem, but I don't think I need to do anything that would modify the root filesystem.

I'm just installing programs but like... everything I want is easily available.

I am a big fan of being unable to brick my system messing with things.

[pliant snow]

I wasnt sure if they let you rollback stuff yourself or how that all worked

I've played with how Nix does it, but not Bazzite/Fedora

[marble jewel]

I accidentally locked myself out of my raspberry pi via ssh because I stupidly did an apt upgrade.

I'm sure there's some sort of way I could plug into it to unfuck it, but as long as I can get back to my data, I can probably just reimage it

On a semi-related note, I've been organizing all of my install/configure processes to use rotz which is a rust cli tool to help manage things like apps and config files. So theoretically, if I screw up my desktop, I can recover by cloning a repo and then running rotz install && rotz link

[ivory shadow]

I've just about got everything installed on my laptop now. Been messing around with games.

I'm impressed with the integrated graphics.

[marble jewel]

Is this going to be your all-purpose machine?

[dusty pollen]

wait we're meant to organise them?

I have a folder called "repos" and anything kind of adjacent to a repo or that has repo or code vibes goes in there, top level

[marble jewel]

I really dig the Framework concept. I kind of want to see more interesting usecases for the reconfigurability. Like the 10-key you can swap in/out is pretty neat, but I wonder what other things will come of that.

I like flat structures, nested organizations always ends up chaotic for me

[dusty pollen]

iirc on one laptop it's in ~/repos and on the other laptop it's on /hdd/repos (guess what's mounted to /hdd) but symlinked to ~/repos. No they're not synced to each other in any way

[marble jewel]

Repos with unique project name for every sub-folder makes everything simple

[dusty pollen]

also I have my default downloads folder set to /tmp which should tell you about how I approach data management

[marble jewel]

I've started playing around with utilizing Obsidian to organize my notes, and I'm finding the same thing. Deeply nested organization structures always ends up feeling messy to me

[dusty pollen]

if something is truly important hopefully I remember to move it out of /tmp before I turn the laptop off

[marble jewel]

I like that idea. I do something like that with my email inbox too. I constantly reduce my inbox to zero, and immediately flag something as actionable or file it away if it needs to be retained.

[dusty pollen]

I miss Google Inbox. that was the entire concept

[marble jewel]

I might just steal your downloads method. That vibes with how I work.

[dusty pollen]

you're welcome to, just make sure that you change folder for anything important

it's how I always felt that a downloads folder should work though so it works for me. 99% of the stuff I download doesn't need to stay on my device beyond this session

[marble jewel]

I've unintentionally done a bit of that. I try to remove downloads after they serve their purpose, but there are definitely things that have stuck around here where it's become their permanent storage space.

And at that point, I should have filed them away

My macbook downloads is always empty, but my windows desktop not so much

[dusty pollen]

I never do anything out of the downloads folder/look through it for anything so for me it just ends up being functionally the same other than the three times I've had to reinstall windows recently, having the installers still in the downloads folder was nice for that ig

[marble jewel]

As much as possible, I'm trying to move away from Windows installers, and setting up a repeatable script to acquire everything via winget, scoop, or choco

And in some cases pip

Of course that's not an option for everything, but it should theoretically allow me to build my current environment from scratch with little effort

[sand frost]

I miss the days when I was good at this

[dusty pollen]

I hate windows with a passion and refuse to spend any more braincells on getting things to work in it that I don't already know how to do atp

[sand frost]

I kept up for a surprisingly long time but I have ~4 active email inboxes at this point

all of which get many emails per day, which I try to combat with aggressive use of filters but it still is just too much to fully manage

[dusty pollen]

I've had my email address since 2005 and have not always been particularly careful with which websites I give it to, so my spam folder sees a lot of traffic

[ivory shadow]

Nah. I'll still use my desktop for most things. This is just backup, a machine to use if I'm traveling, and something to use in the evenings when I'm unwinding and don't want to be at my desk

[sand frost]

my spam folders are also hard at work

I have work email, personal email, formal personal email, and junk email (ecommerce)

[dusty pollen]

I've made so many gmail accounts over the years that the other day I got an email to reset the password on an email address I didn't recognise that's using my main email as its backup and genuinely couldn't tell if I made it ten years ago for something and forgot or if someone else made it and set my email as the backup address for some reason

I removed my email from being a backup though ofc

[marble jewel]

I’ve got work, personal outlook, Gmail, and proton with my custom domains

[cinder karma]

See, I had to deal with email trial by fire so...now I just mostly keep up with my work email

[sand frost]

I have 14 gmail accounts listed under my main gmail as either delegated or just other accounts

Some of these are genuinely not mine anymore, they're school club accounts I've passed down

[cinder karma]

🫂

Tbh I need to deal

I have 10k unreads

Built up from the last time I was busy

It's soooo bad

[sand frost]

I have very nearly 0 unreads

Unless I count the filtered folders I only occasionally check

[cinder karma]

I had 0 unreads up to 2 years ago tbh

Kinda lost that, need to redo my filters

Most of the email I get is junk anywyas 😦

[marble jewel]

I do use inbox rules to help weed out the noise. I get quite a bit of recurring inactionable emails, so those just automatically go to the trash

Otherwise, I'd probably be wrangling about 50 or so work emails a day, in addition to my personal email accounts

[sand frost]

I'm on two different all-faculty email lists—those got filtered immediately 😆

[cinder karma]

K keep on top of my work email!

It's my personal email that is a mess

[dusty pollen]

the issue with keeping up with emails is that I eventually remember that there's the option to... not

[cinder karma]

God I hate SharePoint

Just brutal hatred

For the love of God just WORK

[worn remnant]

i've never used it, but i don't have to. it's called "SharePoint", a name so reeking of enterprise that its quality is known

[cinder karma]

SharePoint is so bad I almost don't despise Teams

It regularly just....makes my cpu jump around doing nothing instead of showing me the FILE I ASKED FOR

Microsoft in their insane decided a web version of their products made more sense than anything else

Except it works about half the time

[strange copper]

I had to make a website that interfaced with SharePoint 2013 once

[devout vault]

This is funny when compared to my approach of effectively only having a clear downloads folder when I get a new computer.

If I run low on hard drive space I’ll go and clean out the larger files (like, >500MB), but that’s it

[cinder karma]

I do this too!!!!

[cinder karma]

Tbh I would love the idea more if it wasn't so expensive and if I ever used a laptop in a place where usb peripherals couldn't exist

Due to how my job works I prefer giant screen even on a laptop

Like, 16" plus

[safe dragon]

we’re still using sharepoint 2013

which as far as I can tell is actually better than 2019 at least

[ivory shadow]

Still enjoying the new laptop, but I have ordered a replacement wifi card for it now. The MT7922 it came with just does not get along well with my wifi environment.

I can be up in my bedroom with the laptop, where it's only separated from the AP by a floor (so wood, drywall ceiling below) and it'll only hit like 50mbps

It's probably an issue with Linux drivers and this specific chip, but rather than messing with stuff I've just ordered an Intel AX210 since those are absolutely solid

[crystal wren]

It came with a Mediatek wifi card?

[ivory shadow]

Yeeeeah

[crystal wren]

(Although wait, I'm assuming this is Framework...)

[ivory shadow]

Framework, yup.

I'm going to assume AMD has some weird stipulations about not selling their processors with Intel hardware, honestly

[crystal wren]

That's... super weird. They're normally hard insistent on Intel wifi with Intel boards, and AMD wifi with AMD boards.

[ivory shadow]

I have no personal experience with AMD wifi chips, so I couldn't remark about them. But going with anything besides Intel kinda feels silly for 6E

I thought about getting a qualcomm chip with 7 support, but from what I've read Linux support can still be a little flakey and my APs aren't 7 yet anyways.

So I'll just wait till I upgrade my APs to upgrade the laptop.

[crystal wren]

Though wifi card antenna wires are highly spooky.

[ivory shadow]

I honestly hate the little connectors they use

I have so much trouble reattaching them lol

[safe dragon]

oh dear

hope my laptop arrives with a decent wifi experience

seems mine is not yet ready to ship though

[rain apex]

My framework's wifi is slower than my phones

For a while it also refuse to connect until i go manually restart iwd

[safe dragon]

my phone pulls like 800 mbps so that would be a pretty tough competitor

oh no

[rain apex]

It fixed itself tho ( release yay )

But twas intel wifi on 11 gen intel cpu

I don't know what it is like now

[ivory shadow]

Which one did you order again Crumble?

[pliant snow]

Ive used the default wifi chip, i dont think ive had any issues

[ivory shadow]

I feel like my issues are probably just a poor interaction between my specific AP and the mediatek chip.

I've tested a little with a different AP I have and that performs better... but that's also an older AP and I don't want my laptop using it. I just keep it around for IoT crap.

[safe dragon]

the 13" ryzen 300 one

apparently it comes with this thing? https://oemdrivers.com/network-mediatek-mt7925

[ivory shadow]

This prompted me to look, and apparently AMD doesn't make their own wifi chips it's all Mediatek. They have a partnership.

Hence why that's called the AMD RZ717 when it's just a Mediatek chip.

[safe dragon]

well I hope I'll have a decent experience

I'll definitely have to make sure I have good drivers for it from somewhere

[ivory shadow]

Are you planning to run Windows?

[safe dragon]

presumably a relatively recent kernel version

nope, linux

[ivory shadow]

I'm on 6.13.9 for the record, kernel wise.

[safe dragon]

that's relatively new

I'm on 6.14.2

https://github.com/bastiaan-net/linux-usb-wifi-adapters/blob/main/home/How_to_Install_Firmware_for_Mediatek_based_USB_WiFi_adapters.md

there's this in case of disaster

[crystal wren]

The only Framework-supplied wifi I have experience with is whatever came with the... I think 11th gen Intel factory seconds type thing. AX210, I think?

[safe dragon]

honestly I didn't even realize wifi cards were OEM dependent

I thought like, any of them would work

[ivory shadow]

It's a screwy situation.

[crystal wren]

Definitely an area where you'd get a better default deal with the Intel boards, for sure.

[ivory shadow]

I'm getting an AX210 and fully expect it to work fine. It has mature Linux drivers. It works with AMD processors. It works well with my AP. (I know as my mom's laptop has one.)

There are Intel chips that don't work with AMD processors for hardware reasons, relying on CPU hardware to offload processing.

There are chips that just don't have good Linux drivers.

When it's time to get WiFi 7 I'll probably grab a qcncm865 card from Qualcomm. I didn't go with that now only because the Linux drivers are still maturing. It sounds like the problems are fixed now? But I'd rather give it a few more months at least.

Relevant thread about the QCNCM865: https://community.frame.work/t/guide-successful-wi-fi-7-802-11be-on-framework-13-amd-with-qualcomm-qcncm865-and-arch-linux/44723/1

[safe dragon]

by the time I blink they'll release wifi 8 I swear