programmers-off-topic

[sonic mirage]

What's the alternative, using your feet?

[sand frost]

The teriyaki sauce I used was “let’s put some stuff in a bowl and microwave”

[sand frost]

A spoon!

Or if you’re fancy, a pastry brush

[leaden marsh]

i was thinking a brush

[sand frost]

I have an ingrained reflex to not dirty more utensils

[cinder karma]

Hi myuu! Long time no see

[sand frost]

Myuuuu!

[leaden marsh]

hello!

[cinder karma]

dishwasher

[sand frost]

I knowwww

Old habits die hard

[sonic mirage]

I've got a silicone brush I'd probably use for that

[cinder karma]

Tbh I would probably use the back of a spoon

[sonic mirage]

But yeah, then you have to wash it

[cinder karma]

I own a silicone brush and I hate cleaninf a silicone brush so

Life choices

[sonic mirage]

I think the trick is to just wash it immediately

[devout vault]

Lick it and rinse. Who needs soap? /s

[cinder karma]

The trick is to use a dishwasher

[sonic mirage]

is the dishwasher, so.. yeah?

[cinder karma]

Oh.

I'm so so sorry

[sonic mirage]

I don't mind it. I don't trust most dishwashers I've had before anyways, so I practically wash the dishes before they go in anyways. I used it as a sanitization box

[devout vault]

Apparently I left my etsy favorites tab open.

If I was into using laptop stickers this would be my first purchase. https://www.etsy.com/listing/1074669921/cute-cat-antidepressant-vinyl-sticker

Amazing concept, and it's a black cat? Take my momney

[sonic mirage]

The trick is having a scrubby soap wand.

[devout vault]

And I'm on an actual antidepressant now

[cinder karma]

Modern dishwasher does good job

An atra is lazy

[sand frost]

My old dishwasher was a piece of crap that made my dishes dirtier, but this new one really works

[cinder karma]

.... I've never had a bad dishwasher

[sand frost]

It was also a rental apartment so they weren’t going to fix unless it broke broke

[devout vault]

I had one apartment without a dishwasher. Hated it, only used disposable stuff when I could during that time

(I mean, I do that now too, but that's because I still haven't unpacked my dishes from when I moved - totally different)

[sonic mirage]

My house is a rental with a tiny kitchen, so no room for a dishwasher anyways

[sand frost]

No dishwasher was a dealbreaker in the last apartment hunt

[devout vault]

Yeah, I didn't realize I'd have as much of a problem with it as I did

It's a requirement now

[sonic mirage]

I much prefer the large garage that I required rather than having the dishwasher

[cinder karma]

I once lived in a dorm with a dishwasher that you had to connect to the sink

Still. Dishwasher useful

[sand frost]

I considered getting one of those for one apartment I looked at

[devout vault]

I almost got one of those during that apartment without a 'normal' one

[sand frost]

Since it was decent otherwise

[devout vault]

I've heard they don't work great

[cinder karma]

Worked fine

[sand frost]

But i decided oil heat was one too many things to deal with

[cinder karma]

The issue was more the 13 other people I shared said kitchen with, I say lovingly

(I kid, I kid.)

I loved them all even as I wrote passive aggressive notes over the dirty dishes

[sonic mirage]

You have to A) know how to properly fill and orient the dishes in them and B) not expect miracles of science to happen, then you should be good with any modern dishwasher, so long as you fill it with soap properly

[sand frost]

There was genuinely something wrong with the one I had that was bad, all the other ones I’ve used since work great when doing the exact same thing

I think it just bathed the dishes in dirty water somehow

[devout vault]

What's the point of a dishwasher if it can't perform a miracle of science???

[sand frost]

In my book, dishes go in and come out clean is a minor miracle of science

Fluid dynamics, plumbing, thermodynamics

[cinder karma]

In my book, one fewer chore to do is a happier atra

What do you mean the dishes do themselves, the laundry does itself

The instant pot has dinner in it

[devout vault]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, modern technology basically is magic

[sand frost]

The fact that I have to move the laundry is kind of tragic though

[cinder karma]

And atra can bundle up in bed and knit?

[sand frost]

I made myself a little cart to haul it around on

[devout vault]

No you don't, just leave it in the dryer like I do!
(I guess that's a little more difficult when you don't live alone...)

Or do you mean between the washer and dryer

[cinder karma]

I'm up to the point where I can casually pick up 50 lb bags of soil like they're nothing

[sand frost]

Shared apartment laundry room

It’s across the building and down a floor

[devout vault]

...A joint washer/dryer probably exists somewhere, right?

[devout vault]

Tragic

[sand frost]

Yes!

There are combos

[devout vault]

Devastating

[sand frost]

They maybe don’t work as well

I’ve never used one myself

[cinder karma]

Yes (and are common in europe) but they suck

Tbh I still drying rack everything lol

[sand frost]

I only drying rack the delicates

I did also do 8 loads of laundry last weekend so maybe that explains why I don’t air dry

[cinder karma]

I don't hate it. Plus like 60% of the time is spent hanging small things

Ah, yeah, I generally generate more than the usual amount of laundry

I have work clothing then home clothing then gym clothing so

[sand frost]

I have a lot of clothing because I never get rid of it unless it’s literally falling apart

So I just wear it from most to least favored

(Which ones are favored depends on weather)

[cinder karma]

I thought I had a lot of clothing

[sand frost]

And when I get too miserable I do all the laundry at once

[cinder karma]

Then I started looking at YouTube organization schemes

[sand frost]

Some of the laundry I did was sheets and towels

[cinder karma]

And I'm like no

My clothes are normal

(I can go about three weeks before running out of clothing. Like Elizabeth, I wear my clothing until it falls apart.)

(I'm currently wearing a polo I got in high school.)

[sand frost]

I think my clothes aren’t normal because I think I like buying clothes way more than you like buying clothes

I have shirts from early high school I pretend don’t have holes in them

[cinder karma]

Gotta keep a shirt for the machine shop

[sand frost]

Haha machine shop is work so

Gotta look professional

T-shirts from high school will definitely get me mistaken for a freshman

[cinder karma]

Gotta keep a shirt for gardening then

[sand frost]

One day when I have a garden

[ivory shadow]

Gardening is ruined for me from working to help my dad with his lawn business. I have discovered that me and plants do not get along. Outside of a house plant or two.

I do like looking at well tended gardening and landscaping projects. But setting them up? Not for me.

I'd rather have a terrarium, and even that is not really for me.

[cinder karma]

Running in 40km/hr winds is a choice

It's a choice I voluntarily made

[fleet oriole]

Into or away from the winds?

[cinder karma]

I mean it's a circuit. You do both

[dusty pollen]

I applaud you from the safety of my bed

[sonic mirage]

Wind is just nature's cooling fan

[devout vault]

Or, depending on where you are and the time of year, nature's convection oven

[dusty pollen]

if your local temperatures are over 37C why are you outdoors /lh

[marble jewel]

People in Arizona, why... just why

[dusty pollen]

I have lived in a country that had that. That's when you hide in your house or the fridge isle of the supermarket

[devout vault]

googling the conversion to fahrenheit like the filthy american I am /s

[dusty pollen]

nope

[marble jewel]

What is that in Freedom Units?

[dusty pollen]

.wolfram 37C in F

[heavy dagger]

98.6 °F (degrees Fahrenheit)

[dusty pollen]

there we go

[devout vault]

Oh, only 98.6 F? Wow, that's nothing in FL summer 😛

[dusty pollen]

(aka body temp lmao)

[devout vault]

Even in northern FL

[marble jewel]

I'm glad I left Texas, their heat was unbearable

[dusty pollen]

I find heat is more bearable in areas that are used to it

[devout vault]

<flashbacks to the summer my apartment AC broke and it took over 2 weeks for the apartment people to replace it>

[dusty pollen]

but still unbearable bc unlike the cold, you can't really escape

[devout vault]

(After a while I came to the front office and asked and they had apparently forgotten 🙄 )

[marble jewel]

Yeah, 90s in Texas was a nice day. 90s in Washington is deathly because no one has AC out here.

[devout vault]

Felt so bad for my long hair cats

[marble jewel]

And the old houses were made to retain heat since that was the concern before

[devout vault]

Yeah being in the southeast US forever, I was surprised to find out other states didn't necessarily always have AC in houses

[dusty pollen]

people in the UK are so shocked when I tell them that where I was born, houses don't have built in radiators/central heating. But then when I say that they have built in ac they act like that means everyone there is rich

[marble jewel]

I only have heating in my house, but I'm trying to change that because summer gets warmer every year

[devout vault]

Haha, rich. In FL it might as well be required for survival during the summer

[dusty pollen]

standalone ACs are pretty powerful! we have one now because they aren't built into this house in the UK

[marble jewel]

Apparently avoiding heatstroke is a luxury

[dusty pollen]

exactly! like it's literally a health issue we're talking about areas where on hot days you can't spend more than 30m outside without feeling sick

[marble jewel]

For some context, there was a week in summer where my office hosted "cooling centers" so that people could have a little bit of relief

[dusty pollen]

I remember once my primary school decided that the only way to deal with my class (which was apparently the worst behaved class they've ever had lol) was to "reward" those of us who behaved for an entire week with going to the brand new football pitch the local middle school built opposite the school. We could see the heat waves distorting the lines on the pitch

[devout vault]

Yeah, usually. The one at my parent's house struggled though, since when we moved in they had one of the garages turned into an additional room (for my mom's business at the time).

At one point they ended up getting me a window AC unit for my room since it was upstairs and I'm more sensitive to heat than everyone else, so I was constantly sweating even at night. (The window AC actually lowered the electric bill, funnily enough, I think because the main AC didn't have to work as hard anymore.)

Once the main AC broke I think they got one that was a bit better and could actually handle the whole house

[devout vault]

I have no idea how construction workers function in FL summer

[cinder karma]

Heat tolerance is as much of a skill as anything else btw

[dusty pollen]

we all sat there, not moving, literally boiling, meanwhile the one kid who didn't get allowed to come with us was in the shade in the school playing football and enjoying himself

[cinder karma]

When I was in HS I would run outside in the Texas summer

[devout vault]

I mean, when I was younger my church had a mission trip to Nicaragua, and they didn't have AC. Didn't like that either. 😛 (And since I was averse to swimming for a bunch of different reasons I didn't use the pool.)

[devout vault]

I sometimes saw the heat wave distortation while driving around town during summer in FL. I imagine the asphalt was a big factor though

[dusty pollen]

I was so happy to move to a cold country only to find out that cold triggers every chronic health condition I have

and when we first moved, would also give me awful headaches, though that's calmed down

[devout vault]

Yeah... while not as much of an issue these days, when I was younger the coldest days (mainly before we moved from MS to FL) would aggravate my asthma

[dusty pollen]

yup! asthma for me too, and also scoliosis related back pain

[devout vault]

My twin can't really go outside when it's less than 50F because of his collection of health issues

[dusty pollen]

and just general joint flexibility weirdness

[devout vault]

When it gets that way in FL my parents have to go visit and take his dog out to pee for him twice a day.

[cinder karma]

That sucks tbh

[devout vault]

My twin has that too (and tons of other stuff, like I mentioned)!

Who needs cartlidge to function right

[dusty pollen]

(did you guys know there's a proven correlation beween adhd and connective tissue problems like hypermobility?)

[cinder karma]

I've talked to Elizabeth about it, one thing about Boston was that Boston wasn't cold for me

[dusty pollen]

(and nobody knows why!)

[devout vault]

Really? Huh

adds to the autism-ADHD-transgender bucket

[dusty pollen]

yup! like a strong one as well.

[devout vault]

Weirrrrrd

[dusty pollen]

My psychiatrist's favourite theory is that it leads to sagging in a blood vessel supplying blood to our prefrontal cortex (because adhd also has a very strong correlation with reduced activity in the prefrontal cortex in fMRIs)

[devout vault]

Hmmm

[cinder karma]

(Do you get lidocaine escape at the dentist as well?)

[devout vault]

I don't know what that is but I'm fairly certain it's been at least a decade since I've been to the dentist

I'm not even afraid, just never got around to it after I had to start doing it myself

[dusty pollen]

and then there's POTS, which is a physical condition causing massively increased heart rate when standing up from sitting/laying down, is also strongly related to hypermobility... and has "adhd-like symptoms" as one of its known symptoms. It's all so wild when you start looking into it

[dusty pollen]

I'm not sure what that is, but I've also never had to be put under for any dental procedures

[devout vault]

I've never heard of that. I've noticed my heart rate does that but I figured it had more to do with me being incredibly overweight

[cinder karma]

Lidocaine is supposed to be local

But for some people it leaks away more

[dusty pollen]

you should look it up - the increase needs to be pretty high to count as POTS afaik but you never know. It's more common in afab people I think but not exclusive

[devout vault]

Yeah, anesthetics are kinda scary when I hear about how sensitive/unsensitive some people are

[dusty pollen]

I've only had a total of one filling and no other procedures that even required numbing and I'm pretty sure they didn't numb me for that either iirc

wait no, they did

but who knows what they used lol

[cinder karma]

Yeah the dentist had to do two root canals and it's only been five years

[devout vault]

Hmm, I'm not sure if I reach the 120 mark since I don't think I've necessarily 'measured', just felt it and noticed a noticeable beat frequency change.

Not sure I've had any of the other symptoms. There was once I had some pretty severe dizziness on standing (or even rolling in bed), but it was that thing with having a crystal loose in your inner ear canal (not the one with ear wax, the internal one that's used for balance and such) or something. Can't remember what it's called, just that the 'epley maneuver' fixed it. (When I freaked out when it happened and told my parents, my dad suggested that, since he has it happen from time to time)

That's the only time I've been that dizzy, it was really bizarre. It was like gravity had changed directions and also wouldn't sit still

[cinder karma]

(Fwiw, I thought having your heart rate spike when you stand up is normal)

It happens to me too

(Goes from 55->~100, takes a minute to go back to normal)

[dusty pollen]

it's normal to a small extent, not normal massively

[cinder karma]

I have a fitness watch so I get pretty decent numbers

[rapid gate]

how do i program?

[dusty pollen]

that's a very loaded and general question. Are you actually asking or are you trying to gain server xp? because your random gif messages in making mods general make it look like the latter, but if you're actually interested, I'm sure we can give you some advice

[rapid gate]

i actully intrested

[dusty pollen]

what kind of thing are you looking to make?

[rapid gate]

a npc

[dusty pollen]

modding questions go in #making-mods-general

this channel is for non-mod programming

[rapid gate]

nvm it sounds really difficult and im sick so

[sand frost]

I don’t think I get heart rate changes but sometimes I faint! Not very often. Doctors seem to shrug whenever it happens and say they have no idea.

Their advice has included gems like:

• have you tried not standing up too fast
• never get dehydrated
• eat more salt

(to be clear, these are all correct things, just not very helpful)

[cinder karma]

That sounds right

is eating more salt currently

Although that is to fix the god awful Charley horses

[sand frost]

I feel like "never let yourself get dehydrated" is really frustrating advice because like, I'm not doing it on purpose! I actually try very hard not to get dehydrated!

[worn remnant]

"never get dehydrated" has "draw the rest of the fucking owl" energy

[cinder karma]

I feel like I want to do a study

What is the normal amount of heart rate increase when standing up

Well damn

Go me for having a strong enough heart it's irrelevant?

(Or, more likely, there is something inherent to having a low heart rate...)

[twilit fern]

pcregrep -M "\"[^\"]+\": \{(\n|.)*?\"Name\": \"" "$objects"
``` this works fine. however adding anything to the regex after that, for example the letter A `pcregrep -M "\"[^\"]+\": \{(\n|.)*?\"Name\": \"A" "$objects"` results in error spam with messages like this ```pcregrep: pcre_exec() gave error -27 while matching text that starts:

  "323": {
    "Name": "Stone Fence",
    "DisplayName": "[LocalizedText Strings\\Objects:StoneFence_Name]",
    "Description": "[LocalizedText Strings\\Objects:StoneFence_Description]",
    "Type": "

pcregrep: Too many errors - abandoned.
pcregrep: Error -8, -21 or -27 means that a resource limit was exceeded.
pcregrep: Check your regex for nested unlimited loops.```
anyone know what the problem is? just trying to make a simple script to convert some vanilla object names to the new ids

[dusty pollen]

are you trying to use regex to parse json? why not use a tool that's designed for json?

removing the quote escaping from clarity, it looks like your regex is

"[^"]+": {(\n|.)*? "Name": "

already first note is that you don't usually need to combine * and ?, though that wouldn't cause the issue

[leaden marsh]

to build on that, json is not a regular language, so parsing it with regex is really not recommended

[twilit fern]

regex matching is just a tool i already know so

[dusty pollen]

it's not a good tool for the job at hand though unfortunately

I see that *? is usually used for lazy matching, though now I'm not sure why you didn't use it for the beginning part instead of the "[^"]+" part

[safe dragon]

luckily there's a billion json parsers out there

[dusty pollen]

I like jq for powerful query-based scripting!

iirc this same thing would be . | values | .Name

for getting the name of every object. Filtering by them is just as easy

[twilit fern]

to explain it a little better maybe, i'm first planning to grep this highlighted part (as an example) using the value of the Name entry (Carp) and then get the key (142 in this case) based on the Name

the thing is that using something you already know is much easier than using something you have no idea of how to use. but maybe i'll have to learn proper json parsing

[dusty pollen]

that's really only true if the thing you know actually works for your intended goal

[twilit fern]

well sure

[dusty pollen]

which content file is this, btw?

[twilit fern]

Data/Objects

[dusty pollen]

if you use a tool like jq, for your carp example, to_entries[] | select(.value.Name == "Carp").key works for example

[twilit fern]

thanks. i'll look into it

[dusty pollen]

(though also out of interest I tried writing a version using pcregrep for the carp example too and it is possible: pcregrep -Mo '"[^"]+"(?=:\s*{\s*"Name":\s*"Carp")' Data/Objects.json. You still shouldn't though.)

using multiline mode, a positive lookahead, and the \s special character to match any whitespace, to make it a bit more flexible

(this does assume Name is the first key, but it always is)

the issue was likely the way the greediness inverter works under the hood causing massive amounts of recursion

(without assuming that Name is the first key, to avoid this kind of extremely expensive search you would actually need to write a regex which can check for correctly matched brackets etc, which is provably impossible and the reason you shouldn't parse json/html with regex)

[twilit fern]

hm. good to know that it possibly has that kind of problems. i don't understand the regex fully but i think i'm going to use it anyway if it works. so thanks again

[dusty pollen]

it doesn't work. You can force a workaround in this case, but json objectively, mathematically, provably cannot be parsed with regex. It's one of the fundamental principles behind regular expressions and languages.

[twilit fern]

i mean if it works in this case it's good enough for me

[dusty pollen]

what is this script for, anyway? because if you just need to grab some IDs by name, there's a website you can use

[twilit fern]

i have a FTM mod that spawns vanilla objects using the vanilla names and i want to add a context tag to each of those items, so i want to grab the ids to generate the CP patches with a script and not have to do it by hand

(probably would have been done by now though if i just checked them individually from Data/Objects)

[dusty pollen]

if you're doing literally nothing else with regex you may be fine then

[twilit fern]

in case you're wondering how i got the names from the FTM json files btw

[crystal wren]

I love when a mod's API becomes incompatible with a minor version update.

[safe dragon]

my favorite

[ivory shadow]

Was it intentional or more an oops pintail can be fragile incompatibility?

[crystal wren]

Well, GetRedactedDrops changed to CheckRedactedDrops...

Redacted to avoid naming the mod.

Yeah, these are just straight-up pretty wide API method name changes.

[rain apex]

Suspiciously on topic over here

[crystal wren]

https://tenor.com/bjU6d.gif

Logic. Um...

Logic being that... in #making-mods-general people might be more likely to recognise the mod...?

[safe dragon]

ah yes the redacted mod

I know this

[rain apex]

Is there any doxygen tag to comment a field of struct

[thin estuary]

I’m starting to hate Pintail in general and thinking it was a mistake

[rain apex]

I was use @field but it's unclear if it does anything

[crystal wren]

Couple of minor and patch versions apart.

[safe dragon]

[ivory shadow]

Yeah, I know what mod that is and wasn't happy with it myself lol

[safe dragon]

so much for redacted

[crystal wren]

The logic was changed. Many mods deal with resource clumps. Plus it would just be a scribble otherwise, and that would look silly...

[rain apex]

What would you do instead now

[thin estuary]

Not quite sure why we’re redacting it. Not that I know what that mod is

[safe dragon]

clumpmod 2000

[crystal wren]

I'm just trying to avoid it being too "shame to x for doing this".

[rain apex]

I understand pintail is like, thing that looks at 2 interfaces and makes a bunch of dynamic methods to go between em right

[thin estuary]

I’m thinking mods that want to provide an API, could just create a reference NuGet package

[safe dragon]

evil duck typing

[rain apex]

But would that dodge the hard ref thing

[thin estuary]

I don’t know, I haven’t tried

But I’m thinking it could be done

A NuGet package with just the interfaces

Aka what we already do

Copying interfaces around

I guess if the providing mod also consumes that same NuGet package, it can’t not work

[rain apex]

Yeah but that is just the presentation isn't it?

[thin estuary]

But it becomes a bit annoying to use

[rain apex]

I was wondering more about the actual duck typing mechanism

If you would keep it as is or do something else

[thin estuary]

There would be no need for duck typing

[ivory shadow]

Okay, but then things break once you update and mods need to be recompiled against your new API do they not?

[thin estuary]

Do they?

[rain apex]

Would it work like linking to shared library via headers then

[thin estuary]

Brb driving

[rain apex]

i dunno much about non modding c# so i am thinking about this in c/c++ terms

[ivory shadow]

You can only expose a single object as your root API, and that interface wouldn't match

I guess it might work depending on how it's loaded

But that still seems sketchy

[ivory shadow]

I am more awake now and realizing I was thinking about weird duck typing issues still.

It sounds annoying though, thinking about it, since every mod that consumes such an API would need to have an extra interface DLL packed with it. And declaring dependencies would be much more important to ensure the mod loader loads the actual mod and its version of the interface DLL first.

[cinder karma]

Morning, Khloe!

For the last thirty minutes I've been trying to convince the batch runner to run code in location A and it insists on running code in location B

[safe dragon]

have you considered convincing it to run in location B

that might work

[marble jewel]

Ah, reverse psychology

[ivory shadow]

"Fine, run the code in location B."

[safe dragon]

a petty program

[rotund violet]

That sounds like a nightmare. Linker errors are consistently the most painful part of working in unmanaged languages.

Pintail is largely emulating structural interfaces and structural interfaces are generally the least-bad way we know of to set up integration between two arbitrary partners - you get static types (albeit with some fragility underneath them) without coupling. If there are issues with what Pintail is doing then I'd put it down to the "how" rather than the "why".

[cinder karma]

Ooh, new attempt at a lunar lander

[ivory shadow]

I am once again asking people not to indent with two spaces

[crystal wren]

I will indent with tabs so you can decide how they look on your end! /j

[cinder karma]

Got it

Using three spaces

[ivory shadow]

I thought you were going to say 1 space

[safe dragon]

I won't indent

[ivory shadow]

2 spaces may as well be not indenting

[cinder karma]

We are now successfully running from location A1

[safe dragon]

nah man I've worked with code that wasn't indented at all and it's honestly wild just how unreadable it makes it

[cinder karma]

I hate computers sometimes

[sand frost]

6 spaces?

6 is a nice number

you can make it work with 3 spaces or 2 spaces people

[safe dragon]

I have no idea how many spaces my tabs are

[cinder karma]

Yolo. 20 spaces

[safe dragon]

whatever the default is for visual studio

4?

honestly how often do you ever manually indent your code

[crystal wren]

Not to hate on people doing it (not knowing any better is fine, of course), but you should see the indentation in a lot of the CP JSON stuff that gets done!

[cinder karma]

Real hot girls use .vimrc

[safe dragon]

the closest to manually indenting code I get is to have the periods line up all pretty in a fluent api

[dusty pollen]

use as many cases per indentation as the indentation depth, i.e. first one is 1 space, second one is 2 more spaces...

[crystal wren]

I should start trying to normalise logarithmic indentation...

[safe dragon]

I shall minify my json

[cinder karma]

Tbh

I have considered making a content pack deploy tool

Shhhhhhh

[dusty pollen]

cons to learning python as your first language: many
pros: you learn to indent whether you like it or not

[cinder karma]

I know I'm supposed to be retired

[crystal wren]

From modding, but that's technically not modding.

[safe dragon]

tbh having watched a grown man who's been programming for over 40 years manually format his sql statements in regular ass notepad for the last few months

[crystal wren]

That's a tool!

[dusty pollen]

excuse me?

[safe dragon]

😌

[dusty pollen]

...I can't talk, tbh. Probably shouldn't tell you guys how I started coding

[crystal wren]

Atra and I had a weirdly similar start... it can't be worse than that!

[dusty pollen]

what was yours?

[crystal wren]

Discovering what VBA was on the school computers... then that they had QBasic 4.5 hidden away...

Then to the Cs...

[dusty pollen]

mine is nerdier somehow

[safe dragon]

I had the most boring start to programming ever... My first time every programming anything was an introduction day for a comp sci degree which I then proceeded to study afterwards

[rain apex]

If I don't indent json with 2 space or less ill explode

[safe dragon]

technically I once copy pasted someone's css template for a custom myanimelist layout before that but I don't think I even read it

I'll be honestly. I don't think I have ever in my life manually edited a json that is not like... the appsettings.json

[cinder karma]

....weird

[safe dragon]

I know

[dusty pollen]

was a member of a Harry Potter phpbb board when I was 11/12. Saw some people talking about a very basic in-browser calculator they made. Thought it was so cool, tried to copy the code into a .html file on my computer, opened it and it didn't do anything. Got annoyed and started learning html and to figure out why it didn't work. In between I did a lot of writing html I thought would work in pencil in grid ruled notebooks in school when I was bored lmao

[safe dragon]

somehow even though that's super nerdy that feels like a more common experience than mine

[crystal wren]

What prompted you to choose the CS without having... poked at it prior?

[dusty pollen]

(technically I got to the national finals of a game dev competition when I was 9 in the country I was born in through a special class we had for one semester, but that was entirely using GameMaker and didn't become anything afterwards)

[dusty pollen]

I'm almost certain it is! I think most people in my degree had at least a small amount of hobbyist development experience

[crystal wren]

Imagine being technically qualified with a CS degree... pfff. /j

[dusty pollen]

would it help if it's a joint Maths & CS degree and I almost dropped out several times for mental health reasons?

[crystal wren]

NearlyDroppedOut MathPerson

[safe dragon]

bunch of things

1. The other three majors I considered ended up looking extremely intimidating and scared me off (physics, chemistry and computer engineering)
2. I always liked computers even if I didn't program for them. I'd done stuff like host a minecraft server at least
3. My sister was already studying comp sci and she seemed to like it
4. I hate risk and the job market for programming just seemed incredible compared to almost anything else

don't ask me why my sister decided to study comp sci honestly. She wanted to study psychology originally but then when she realized the job market for that essentially does not exist she pivoted to comp sci

[crystal wren]

Probably also helps that computers are easier to figure out than people.

[rain apex]

I went cs cus biochem is 3hard5me

Are there no therapists in netherland

[safe dragon]

tbh my sister's motivation for studying psychology as far as I can tell was more about figuring out herself than others

[dusty pollen]

almost everyone who heard what degree I was going into before I did immediately said about how many jobs it would get me, with the exception of one girl who asked me "what can you even do with that" and then insisted it will only transfer to being a maths teacher lmao

[safe dragon]

there are! but not enough considering psychology is like, one of the most popular degrees in the entire country

[rain apex]

This seems paradoxical

[safe dragon]

at this point it's becoming common wisdom that if you want an actual job in psychology and not pivot to like... HR or something you need like two masters at least

[rain apex]

Why is it so popular if demand isn't there

[safe dragon]

a lot of people do not pick their degree based on job prospects

[dusty pollen]

I feel like a lot of therapists don't have psych undergrads, they either have some kind of masters or higher degree or they have a different/no qualification

[safe dragon]

it's not the only degree where the number of people studying it is vastly higher than people needed with that degree either

take pretty much any linguistics degree

[dusty pollen]

there are a lot of degrees whose only direct career is academics and maybe one niche thing but still are overrepresented because people either like them or they're considered transferable tbh

classics, for example

[safe dragon]

the fun balance of studying something you actually like and something that will earn you a living later

I've seen the other end too

Know a guy who became a dentist with literally no motivation other than to make money

[marble jewel]

Got it, I will instead outdent 2 spaces

[safe dragon]

outdent...

when you go into a nested section the entire rest of the document shoots to the right

[marble jewel]

    func myFunc()
    {
  if (something)
  {
doSomething();
  }
    }

[rain apex]

Need ide that supports characters at negative line

[marble jewel]

This is way more clear than indenting, I like it

[safe dragon]

honestly it is still a lot better than no indenting

[red crest]

clearly the braces should be right aligned to match the mirroring

[rain apex]

func myFunc()
{
 (Something)

mething();

}

Pls subscribe to the Negative Zone add-on to see the full file

[marble jewel]

Good call

    func myFunc()
                {
  if (something)
               {
doSomething();
               }
                }

[red crest]

would this work too in c++ land

#define { }
#define } {

that way you can mirror the braces too

[fleet wren]

I have friends who started in aerospace/math/bio/chem/insert literally whatever major in here, who have all pivoted to CS/IT

except for the business people. they went into banking/management

[cinder karma]

Same

(This is why we joke about people becoming CS majors, or the <CS major> eating all)

[marble jewel]

A lot of people were told over the same years easiest best job to collect a high paycheck was CS

[red crest]

(i also started in aerospace and pivoted to CS)

[safe dragon]

but are you friends with them because they happened to pivot to CS...

is this statistical bias

[fleet wren]

I'm friends with them because they are Vietnamese

[safe dragon]

damn

[fleet wren]

I also have non-Viet CS peeps

both groups never met. they all know two different versions of me

[safe dragon]

multiple lives

but you're a comp sci nerd in both

[rain apex]

The viet selph and the cs selph

[safe dragon]

most people I knew in my comp sci degree picked it as their first degree

[rain apex]

Ancedotally there's 3 vietnamese ppl who got hired around same time as me

[safe dragon]

there was one guy coming from biochemistry though

[rain apex]

But hm all my life sci college frens stayed life sci

[marble jewel]

I'm not even a CS guy, I'm a data guy and CS is all a hobby

[rain apex]

I am the odd one out

[cinder karma]

I...hmmm

[safe dragon]

I'm a CS guy both in hobby and job now...

[cinder karma]

The four of us in my college life science group

One is still in life science

I'm an electrical engineer now

Two are CS

[fleet wren]

I'm the inverse nowadays - CS for jobs, basically anything else for hobby
(shh ignore modding)

[safe dragon]

actually the biggest pivot I experienced in my comp sci degree were fellow students deciding to quit to study Game Design

probably had to do with the fact that my degree originally marketed itself on a "specialization in game technologies"

which was really just a comp sci degree but you had some of the free course choices taken from you and filled in for you

aoh

there was also one guy who quit to try and become a pro hearthstone player

[fleet wren]

did he make it

[safe dragon]

he did play in an esport tournament once

[cinder karma]

What are your other hobbies

[fleet wren]

one of the pro Dota players who made it to the International million dollar tournament is apparently a friend of a friend of a friend of mine lmao

[safe dragon]

damn you're basically roommates

[rain apex]

That's a lot of degs

What's your erdos number selph

[safe dragon]

by that metric I think I could friend of a friend my way to the dutch royal family

[fleet wren]

drawing/writing/gaming mostly

[marble jewel]

modding, cooking, homelab, and 3d printing for me

[safe dragon]

cooking is a hobby I so wish I had

[fleet wren]

definitely nowhere small enough for me to ask him for money

[marble jewel]

Cooking is just like... Chemistry that you can eat

[rain apex]

You have a published paper then?

[safe dragon]

what the hell is an erdos number

oh

I see

[fleet wren]

I wish
I was referring to the deg separation from said esports player

[marble jewel]

But... how many Kevin Bacons?

[safe dragon]

to this day I am amazed by people who can read comp sci papers without their eyes glazing over and them quitting 2 minutes in

[fleet wren]

Yes, I know those words. I know their meaning individually

[safe dragon]

I know some 16 year old kid who has read a ridiculous number of highly advanced papers on physics simulation tech

[marble jewel]

Nowadays you can just ask ChatGPT to give you the highlights

[safe dragon]

does it keep the nice latex formatting

[cinder karma]

I feel like I don't have hobbies lol

Knitting and working out maybe

[marble jewel]

I heard you like knitting and exercising

Dang, beat me to it

[cinder karma]

Yeah but I would like an interesting hobby

[marble jewel]

Try juggling or learning to ride a unicycle

Or rubix cube

[cinder karma]

I used to rubix cube

[rain apex]

Is running not a hobby

My hobbies besides modding is seasonal anime ig

[safe dragon]

depends on the reason you're running...

[marble jewel]

For your life?

[rain apex]

Current season is lame tho

[marble jewel]

What's the last anime you had fun watching?

[rain apex]

I am look forward to Lazarus

[crystal wren]

Reminds me of one of my answers for Funemployed in Tabletop Simulator forever ago!

[marble jewel]

I'm catching up on some series that I took breaks from which is why I recently finished Devil is a Part timer

[safe dragon]

I love thinking back to my first year in uni as I was learning how for loops work and then in the same class there would be people like this who in my honest opinion would already be an above average employee before he even started the degree

[marble jewel]

I'm currently finishing up season 2 of Masamune-kun's Revenge

[safe dragon]

last anime I had fun watching... I'm still having fun watching Orb: On the Movements of the Earth

[rain apex]

I really liked girls band cry

[cinder karma]

It's not an interesting hobby

[rain apex]

It is exceptionally expressive for 3d anime

And i like how it addresses a band that choose to remain indie

[safe dragon]

as much as people hate on girl's band cry for "looking weird" it's incredibly well done

[cinder karma]

Also I primarily run for the sake of my sanity

[fleet wren]

running for your life like matt mentioned makes it more interesting

[rain apex]

I was looking forward to ave mujica this season but idk what the fuck is happening in that show rn

Drama for drama sake or smth

[fleet wren]

though technically isnt all exercise running running for your life

[rain apex]

Besides that i like medalist

Surprisingly good skating sequences

[marble jewel]

Do you do full on training like strength, endurance, and hypertrophy?

[crystal wren]

(And that's just with the knitting!)

[rain apex]

For this one i really liked the manga but i dont like how freaking dark the adaption is

Not the plot or whatever just every night scene is blob of greys lol

[safe dragon]

the plot is dark either way

do you have a poorly calibrated monitor

[rain apex]

The op is goat though

[safe dragon]

it is a good OP

[rain apex]

I just have ordinary laptop screen

[safe dragon]

ah

that's the same thing

[rain apex]

But it is a direction thing cus

It'll be dark nighttime scene

And then it flash bang you

[safe dragon]

not really an issue I've had really... It's nothing like a lot of movies being filmed in the dark while I can barely even tell where the actors are on the screen

[rain apex]

Dandadan aired same season and it spiced up most of it's nighttime scenes so

I think it is partly an expectation thing cus this is anime and not beholden to realistic lighting

[marble jewel]

Cooking has sub-hobbies too because I'm trying to get into sourdough

[safe dragon]

a classic

someone convinced me to buy the ingredients to cookies so I will be trying to do that this weekend

the first time I'll ever bake

ignoring the time I ate my grandma's cookie dough while cutting shapes

[marble jewel]

For baking, precision matters

For most other forms of cooking, it does not

[safe dragon]

oh yeah it's neat

[marble jewel]

You can eye ball ingredients in just about everything except for baking

[safe dragon]

I will not be eyeballing

[cinder karma]

I'm vaguely following an old marathon training program

I would love to do sourdough but I don't eat enough bread

[sand frost]

knitting is a hobby

[cinder karma]

I do lift some now, hypertrophy requires more T than I have

[sand frost]

like a very real one

[safe dragon]

definitely

[sand frost]

ooooh cookies!!!

cookies are a great place to start with baking imo

[marble jewel]

There was a time that I was more into working out, but back then I had a trainer

Then covid happened, and I got lazy

[sand frost]

i have never been into working out, but my doctors keep telling me i should

[safe dragon]

it's not like there some high bar to something being allowed to be considered a hobby

you just need to enjoy it

[sand frost]

i tried telling them that i don't usually go home at hours compatible with going to the gym but they don't like hearing that either

[safe dragon]

even if it's something as bland and normal as "watching tv"

[crystal wren]

A 24 hour gym recently opened near me, so I'm actually genuinely entertaining the thought...

[marble jewel]

My biggest hobby is sleeping and working for money, I do that almost every day for most of the day

[cinder karma]

My gym opens at 5am and closes at 11pm!!!

[sand frost]

i don't think i live somewhere with enough people for that

[rain apex]

My plan is to walk to work

[sand frost]

there's like....2 gyms in town

[rain apex]

It's not that far (3km) but ill get more than 0 exercise

[safe dragon]

though while I say if you enjoy it it's a hobby... Caling "watching youtube" or "chatting on discord" a hobby feels weird despite it definitely being the things I do the most

[sand frost]

i tried the walk to work plan but it requires first living close enough to work, and i failed that one

if it's chatting on discord on a stardew discord

[rain apex]

I think u can have YouTube as hobby if u r like

[sand frost]

that's basically a hobby

it's like playing stardew

[safe dragon]

I don't even think a 24/7 gym is legal here?

[rain apex]

Really into certain fandoms there

[sand frost]

and that's a hobby

[rain apex]

E.g. be i dunno, red letter media fan

Or just have interest in 4hr essays

[safe dragon]

I'm a huge fan of half researched documentaries about topics I will forget about soon after

[marble jewel]

I consistently watch a handful of youtube channels. Pretty much that instead of TV. Except I watch it on TV, so it is my TV.

[safe dragon]

have some guy tell me why formula 1 is popping off again these days even though I hate formula 1 and everything it stands for

[rain apex]

Isn't formula 1 just kart go fast

What is your beef

[cinder karma]

I've been watching these youtubers explain mental health and also weightlifting

[safe dragon]

the ridiculous way it's run that's just aggressively atrocious for the environment, the sport essentially existing to advertise luxury brands to the point that the owner of formula 1 in the past stating he did not see the point of marketing it to younger people cause they can't afford the brands anyway

[rain apex]

Your beef is very valid i support it

[safe dragon]

apparently it's popular again now because that guy who didn't see the point of marketing the sport to people who aren't rich retired or died or something and then the company that took over started actually marketing it

turned it into a sport about personalities instead of the cars

it was an interesting video even though I wish the sport had died right there and then

[marble jewel]

It also has good marketing deals with other companies because it has a pretty siloed target audience that doesn't overlap as much with other popular sport brands

Like, you can market to a demographic that you wouldn't hit with other things....

[safe dragon]

it's genuinely baffling how formula 1 works though. Just constantly shipping an entire garage worth of stuff from country to country around the world basically constantly without rest

I always assumed an entire tournament was held on 1 course

but they switch course every round

so they all fly to a different country for the next round

and then again

a few dozen times

funky stuff

also kinda fascinating how formula 1 is big enough to practically shut down major population centers for an event

it makes unbelievable money

how did this turn into a rant about formula 1

ranting about formula 1 is not one of my hobbies

[rain apex]

It can be

[marble jewel]

I also like eating, I guess that's a hobby

[safe dragon]

I would have more worthwhile things to rant about

[cinder karma]

To be fair marathons also shut down cities

[safe dragon]

true

[cinder karma]

Someone actually asked me if I worked for Hot Chocolate lol

[rain apex]

Looking forward to CrumbleRant yt channel launch

[safe dragon]

marathons are also coincidentally in the category of sports where I can totally understand that people enjoy participating in it but I find just unimaginably boring to attempt to watch

where I live a lot of people watch the tour de france which is also in that category

[cinder karma]

Don't worry

[safe dragon]

the sport? fascinating. Watching it? lamest shit on television

[rain apex]

I don't think i get most sports tbh

[cinder karma]

I actually run and find runs insanely boring to watch

[rain apex]

But i like the performance art adjacent sports

[marble jewel]

I don't have an interest in any televised sporting event, but I do find live events to be enjoyable

[safe dragon]

I "get" most sports though I don't really watch any

my dad really likes snooker so I watched a lot of it growing up

somehow still vastly more thriling than watching the tour de france despite taking absolutely ages

[safe dragon]

a popular hobby

growing up I always felt embarassed that my hobbies were like the most standard "nerd" hobbies imaginable

I'd always really overplay how much I liked table tennis to have something to say that wasn't gaming or anime

[marble jewel]

I was into MTG growing up, but I was too poor to compete with any of my friends

So they let me make proxy cards, where I'd tape other printed out cards on top of my extra land cards to build a decent deck

[safe dragon]

I'm not sure I was even aware MTG existed till I was in my late teens so I was safe there

[cinder karma]

What's mtg

[marble jewel]

Magic the Gathering

[safe dragon]

magic the gathering

[cinder karma]

SpaceX launch

[cinder karma]

They caught the booster but the rocket itself probably is in pieces

[cinder karma]

Maybe what I'm looking for is an activity I actively enjoy

And not just the things I do to preserve my sanity

But I look around for "enjoyable activity" and draw a blank

Don't say play the stupid game, I don't do that anymore

[ivory shadow]

I've encountered a mod where someone is using PerScreen<> to store other mods' API instances. I just... what?
-# (Sorry, that is dangerously on topic, but I figured I'd avoid slinging mud in the bigger channel, even if I'm being anonymous.)

[cinder karma]

Khloe, did I ever tell you I once found a mod allocating two lists the size of gamelocation.terrainfeatures

Per tick

[ivory shadow]

Though that does sound familiar.

[cinder karma]

Anyways

Fun hobbies

Do you have an idea for one?

Because I don't

[ivory shadow]

The only ones I have ideas for are all stupidly expensive

Earlier in the day I had a video come up of this lego railway and city someone built and it was cool, but just thinking of how much all those legos must cost...

[cinder karma]

Yeah no

Hobby that is fun, that fits in with my schedule, that is good for my self esteem, and also is cheap

[ivory shadow]

If I was going to get into LEGOs as a hobby I feel like a 3D printer would be mandatory. You would download a lego.

[cinder karma]

Mom thinks I should take up dance

Which feels like the worst thing I could do for my self esteem no thanks

[ivory shadow]

I could never get into dance. I am awkward and uncoordinated at best.

With a very poor sense of balance.

Thinking of myself trying to dance makes me think of a Portal 2 quote.

Sailing through the air majestically. Like an eagle...piloting a blimp

[rain apex]

atra i feel like you have many hobbies but perhaps not right mindspace to enjoy them

[regal ingot]

how's your singing voice?

[cinder karma]

Terrible!

[regal ingot]

well that's out, then.

(tbh, I vacillate between "this is a nice hobby, I enjoy this" and "why am I spending so my time on this boring|awful|mediocre music that I don't really enjoy" depending on the repertoire)

[sand frost]

3D printers cannot maintain the tolerances needed, I'm pretty sure

otoh I have access to an injection molder at work

[ivory shadow]

I'd be more worried about layer adhesion and general strength than tolerances, I think?

[vagrant basalt]

I like rock climbing. Exercise you have to think about.

[sand frost]

I haven't looked into it recently but the tolerances on LEGOs are quite tight

when you think about the tolerance stackup across a whole build it starts to add up

the layer adhesion and general strength would also be a problem

but also, think about off-brand legos

they often have the complaint that they don't fit right

and it's because none of the knockoffs do tolerances

[ivory shadow]

Fair.

[marble jewel]

You can definitely print knock-off legos on a 3d printer, but they would be clearly inferior to the real deal

[rotund violet]

You'd probably enjoy running, lifting, and any number of other things a lot more if you weren't constantly interrupting them with mobile phone usage (and worst of all, Discord usage).

Not meant as snark either. People legitimately get addicted to the tiny intermittent dopamine hits with all sorts of negative side effects on mood and concentration. I never touch my phone in the gym unless it's some kind of emergency.

[dusty pollen]

don't you have like every hobby already

[dusty pollen]

(like, VERY tight - 0.02mm max)

[dusty pollen]

I think most things aren't actively "whee this is so fun" levels day-to-day tbh? at least for me. The sanity thing is a pretty good description of my hobbies too.

But I think you'd enjoy things with kind of self-contained problem solving - nothing that has to be a project of more than an hour, but you still get to tinker, solve and optimize. Exactly what kind of thing depends on what else you like though

[dusty pollen]

what do you guys reckon are the odds this laptop uses the same usb bus for the internal usb components and the usb ports

I’m really, really praying it doesn’t

[pliant snow]

I'm pleased to announced I removed like 90% of the javascript from my website

[safe dragon]

all replaced with cursed Turing complete html5 logic

[cinder karma]

Point taken

[ivory shadow]

Depends if the internal USB stuff and the external are both the same version. USB3 and 2 need different controllers.

And usb2 controllers are cheaper and require less bandwidth

[ivory shadow]

I'm going to sneak in and put JavaScript back in your website

[pliant snow]

wtf

All it was doing was loading in a reusable header. I used to use PHP for it, but I didn't want to run PHP, so I just switch to using a Caddy template (since SSI seems wonky these days)

[ivory shadow]

Caddy \o/

[pliant snow]

Yeah, I switched over from nginx to caddy a while ago

[marble jewel]

<- Team Traefik

[pliant snow]

I never tried traefik

[marble jewel]

They're pretty comparable so there aren't many compelling reasons to use one over the other

I've used both, but I have some middleware that I like using with Traefik

[ivory shadow]

I just like how simple the config can be for caddy

[marble jewel]

Traefik config:
speedtest.yml

http:
  routers:
    speedtest:
      rule: "Host(`speedtest.redacted-domain.xyz`)"
      service: "speedtest"
      tls:
        certResolver: "default"
  services:
    speedtest:
      loadBalancer:
        servers:
          - url: "http://speedtest:80/"

I use yaml configuration, but a lot of people prefer to use labels.

[pliant snow]

Caddy would be

example.com {
    root * /srv/www/html
    template
    file_server
    encode zstd gzip
}

Mine has a bit more to handle 404 errors and custom headers tho

[marble jewel]

That is one big difference, Traefik is only a reverse proxy, so there is no concept of serving files. You'd still need nginx in a docker container behind the scenes if you wanted to do that.

[pliant snow]

Yeah, I primarily use caddy just as a reverse proxy, but for my static site I started using its file server as well

[dusty pollen]

I'm hoping they put in two different controllers because I'm pretty sure that a certain issue I have is a combo of the trackpad and keyboard being on the same one plus a Linux quirk 😭

I'm trying to start playing ff14 (ever heard of it? /lh) and it's almost more annoying than the fact I get max 9fps

the issue is that I can't use the trackpad while a key is pressed down

and it's present in both my laptops

and because my desktop is currently Windows, apparently ff14 has higher system requirements there so it can't run at all because of directx errors

[ivory shadow]

That just sounds like Palm rejection driver level stuff?

[dusty pollen]

pretty sure it isn't because I remember looking into it and being something about how Linux handles usb inputs

but I'll look into it again in case I'm misremembering

[ivory shadow]

And no I haven't heard of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, now with an expanded free trial featuring not only the award winning Heavensward expansion but the Stormblood expansion as well giving you unlimited play time up until level 70.

[dusty pollen]

see I thought you, Khloe Leclair, probably never heard of final fantasy XIV and its array of popular mods

[ivory shadow]

It's really funny how I've developed more multiple dalamud plugins and helped work on xivanalysis in the early days despite not having like several thousand hours of playtime on a character that definitely doesn't exist and doesn't have mentor status, all jobs to max level, all side quests complete, a lot of relics, ...

[dusty pollen]

anyway this poor laptop would definitely combust if I put any mods on it, the only reason I'm using XIVLauncher is Linux support lmao

[ivory shadow]

What kind of laptop are we taking here?

[dusty pollen]

oh god

uh, ancient (not really though, just 2016 haha) bottom of the line generic Acer laptop with a bunch of modifications

I think it's running a gen 5 i3 and 8gb ram?

[ivory shadow]

[dusty pollen]

the 9fps are understandable

let's find out the actual specs using neofetch, shall we

yup, exactly right

[crystal wren]

Wow, using outdated software. /s

[dusty pollen]

is neofetch outdated now?

[crystal wren]

Since April last year!

[dusty pollen]

i3-5005U and 8gb ram. Obviously no graphics card

[dusty pollen]

interesting! is there a maintained fork yet?

[crystal wren]

https://github.com/fastfetch-cli/fastfetch

And it really is... faster than Neofetch.

Virtually identical output, just more of it.

[dusty pollen]

for those performance-critical neofetch applications

oh damn, it's already on the official arch repos

right. can't install anything because I haven't updated this laptop in years.

[fleet wren]

Wow, I have always been dismayed that neofetch took 10ms to run

[dusty pollen]

uh I mean I'm a perfectly responsible rolling release distro user who totally doesn't update this laptop once a year or so--

[fleet wren]

I should switch to arch one of these days
I say, before continuing to use the same ubuntu installation for the next nine years

[crystal wren]

How you've managed to not break Ubuntu in that long is genuinely impressive to me!

[dusty pollen]

what is the threshold for breaking Ubuntu though. Because it breaks me every time I have to use it

[cinder karma]

I really need to put my ubuntu partition back up

Or move to arch

Dunno

I would say something about this weekend but

[fleet wren]

I'm impressed too tbh
my current Ubuntu installation was all the way back in 2018, on a previous PC even
when I built a new one last year I just installed the old one's drives and it just worked ™️

[worn remnant]

i mentioned it before, but in my experience ubuntu server LTS versions are quite stable. can't speak for any other flavors

[thin estuary]

okay, wtf. this throws NullReferenceException later down the line

this doesn't

oh. i think i get it.

[dusty pollen]

whatcha making?

[thin estuary]

it's for Nickel, my mod loader for Cobalt Core

[dusty pollen]

I see card I think balatro atp

[thin estuary]

answer is: it helps if you don't recursively call that same method before actually putting in the new value

[cinder karma]

Yeah you have to be super careful with that

You cannot add new values to your dictionary while you have a ref checked out

[thin estuary]

yeah, i think i'll go back to the TryGetValue -> set approach here, since it involves arbitrary modded content code

which, as you can see, can cause recursive calls into the same method

[cinder karma]

As much as I love collectionsmarshall

I agree it is a foot gun

[cyan shadow]

I have news

My best friend primarily uses a macbook, right?

well

he busted out his old windows laptop from before the switch and slapped ubuntu on it with gnome for the desktop

I haven't seen him this happy over his gadgets in a while

So far his one gripe is that he hates the Ubuntu orange accents, but I threw some theming resources at him and he went to sleep with the orange burden off his shoulders

[rain apex]

they can always install gentoo

[cyan shadow]

nah nah

he wants to keep ubuntu

I simply threw a number of customisation guides and gnome-look.org at him

[rain apex]

oh yea i was just repeating the usual joke

they can put a different DE over ubuntu though, if desired

[cyan shadow]

he picked gnome on purpose, it seems

no matter

i'll sit with him when he gets back and nerd out over this myself

[fleet wren]

gnome is admittedly the most polished DE
it does things incorrectly, but in a jank free way with minimal bugs

[ivory shadow]

I do not like gnome, but I don't like macos and that's the vibe gnome goes for

[marble jewel]

I actually find MacOS (plus a few tweaks) to be pretty well-polished for laptops when using the laptop screen. The hand gestures makes it pretty efficient. I wouldn't want it on my desktop though.

I have it setup with a left dock, plus Raycast and Moom. It's not too bad.

[cyan shadow]

when the day comes that I throw a distro onto an external ssd for myself (assuming I can isolate it and not have it mess with my windows install?), I'll be getting KDE, myself

[dusty pollen]

-# have you heard of our lord and saviour i3wm

[cyan shadow]

I admittedly have not

[thin estuary]

„Hand gestures”
Except to make these bearable you need to switch from ProMotion 120 Hz to 60 Hz, because they screwed up animations, and you have to wait like 2-3x as long for it to finish before the new window becomes responsive otherwise :|

[cyan shadow]

(source: https://itsfoss.com/i3-customization/; original source: https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/vkcasz/)

holy shit this is awesome

[dusty pollen]

none of this is really showing i3 properly tbf this was all done via other things

but the post probably includes what those other things were

[cyan shadow]

yep

[cyan shadow]

yeah the base customisations in the guide on itsfoss result in something that is not my vibe, but this is what they used as an example for if you went all out

[dusty pollen]

that subreddit is THE place to go for inspiration for these things btw if you do want to go all out

[cyan shadow]

so I see!

I'll be saving this for future ref

question

what is a rice

[fleet wren]

speaking of i3 this was my old desktop back when I used it: https://imgur.com/a/gruvbox-light-dark-Jd2i8UJ

[cyan shadow]

does it go in boiling water

[dusty pollen]

term stolen from car hobbyist communities meaning aesthetic customisation!

[cyan shadow]

ooo, good ol' gruvbox

[cyan shadow]

[fleet wren]

such a good color scheme I (used to) based my theme around it

I still use it in IDEs, but I use something else for the desktop now

[cyan shadow]

I use rose pine and nord a lot

https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/1j0pj3n/gnome_updated_feminine_rice_what_do_you_think/#lightbox
aww, this is great

[fleet wren]

(my current desktop for reference: #programmers-off-topic message)

[fleet wren]

pink!

[dusty pollen]

what havoc is your compositor wrecking on your gpu

[cyan shadow]

[cyan shadow]

with cow!

[fleet wren]

that's the only reason I watercool mine

[cyan shadow]

okay I am yelling at how stunning a lot of these are

I shall buy the ssd next week

[dusty pollen]

which compositor are you using btw? my fork of compton got discontinued

[fleet wren]

hyprland, which rolls its own compositor
when I used to use i3/X I used picom. I think that's still being worked on?

[dusty pollen]

oh, you're on wayland

yeah, I think picom is the last one standing

[fleet wren]

well last commit 2 weeks ago so that's pretty good

(kinda miss compiz ngl)

[worn remnant]

make some rice
fitting

[pliant snow]

is i3 tiling

[supple ether]

So I broke a balatro save with mods, and I did some research to figure out how to open it to fix it manually. What I discovered is that the save files are only sort of serialized- what the game actually does is print out lua code that reconstructs the current game state, and then compresses it.

What's interesting is that the majority of it appears to just be a textual representation of the game's tabular state data, but at the very top it just has a little bit that assigns the the table to the game state.

It's like a hybridization of serialized data and executable code

[rain apex]

oh that's how maya (.ma) files work

[supple ether]

Really? That sounds horribly insecure

[rain apex]

if u open it there is just big mel script

well thats why theres .mb too

https://download.autodesk.com/us/maya/2011help/index.html?url=./files/Maya_ASCII_file_format_Organization_of_Maya_ASCII_files.htm,topicNumber=d0e702342

[supple ether]

Actually doesn't photoshop do that too? Encapsulated postscript?

[rain apex]

maybe

[cinder karma]

That's gross

[crystal wren]

Atra, have you read the JDSL article?

[lethal walrus]

does that mean mods could be installed by just loading a save and then have per-save mods/easily shareable mods?

[cinder karma]

No

[crystal wren]

Well, if you want a pretty enjoyable time: https://thedailywtf.com/articles/the-inner-json-effect

[cinder karma]

Oh god

That better be a joke

[crystal wren]

Did you get to the comments part yet?

[cinder karma]

Yes

[safe dragon]

everyone should know about the genius tom

being fired is a blessing in this scenario

[crystal wren]

But then you don't get to absorb a fraction of Tom's genius passively, which is a career killer.

[safe dragon]

you will never understand JDSL

[crystal wren]

Someone actually made JDSL, you know.

[safe dragon]

b) Individuals with the name "Jake" are explicitly prohibited from using, accessing, or distributing the Software under any circumstances.

[crystal wren]

The Genius Public License is truly special.

[safe dragon]

it's perfect

[supple ether]

I have no idea, I'm sticking with lovely

[devout vault]

...what the heck?

[dusty pollen]

I personally think it's a perfectly good idea and if you disagree you're fired too /lh

[devout vault]

I’m already unemployed. What are you gonna do, make me double unemployed? 😛

[safe dragon]

double the unemployment benefit

[ivory shadow]

I am so sleepy. But I'm awake. Stupid daylight savings time

[safe dragon]

we're not going through that bullshit here till 2 weeks from now

[ivory shadow]

I wish Michigan would pass something to ditch it

[rain apex]

We passed something to ditch but america is holding us up

[vagrant basalt]

I have never understood the struggle with daylight savings time.

Or jet lag.

Jet lag makes me sleepy for the first day when I travel, but then I'm fine for the rest of the trip. I've never even noticed daylight savings.

[cinder karma]

My phone prompted me to go to bed at 8:40 last night and I didn't question it lol

Just went to sleep

So I got my full seven hours!

[vagrant basalt]

This seems early in the year for DST

It is a full month early

[cinder karma]

Americans keep making dst longer

But refuse to make it the whollleeee year

Hmmmm. Unexpectedly few people at the gym today, given the weather

Maybe daylight savings to blame?

(The weather is awful, usually that means more people at gym)

[vagrant basalt]

My state doesn't have DST but a couple of the other states do. So we have the same time as them for half the year but are 1 hour behind the rest.

NZ does DST so I grew up with it. Never even noticed the change when I moved here lol

[supple ether]

There's been legislation about it that has good support, it just hasn't been finished yet

[sand frost]

I want more evening daylight but I got the sense that wasn’t as popular? But I haven’t really been following

[safe dragon]

but then we'd have to update the timezone table smh

[sand frost]

The airline let me check in 24 real hours beforehand yesterday which was interesting

25 hours clock time (which is the number they chose to mention)

[safe dragon]

the good ol subtract 24 hours

should always work

at least their datetime library seems to be working properly

[thin estuary]

what even happens in that case

where does that kind of info come from

like, for example, for a .NET app

does it matter if your app has a self-contained .NET runtime

[safe dragon]

what kind of info? the timezone information?

that's defined by the tz database

[thin estuary]

tz database? and yes, timezone information. like, if a country now decides to get rid of DST altogether, how would that information be propagated to apps

[ivory shadow]

Checking into flights before you're even physically at the airport seems so stupid to me

[safe dragon]

I check practically the minute is is possible

[ivory shadow]

Oh, I do too. I just mean from the perspective of airlines

[safe dragon]

honestly I'm not sure exactly but I believe all major OSs pretty much maintain a table somewhere

[rain apex]

timedatectl?

or analogous service

[safe dragon]

https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/time-zone-database-package-tzdata-news-and-updates-2022

[ivory shadow]

https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Adotnet/runtime GetLocalTimeZone&type=code

[thin estuary]

so, update the OS, and the apps using it get the new info automatically?

[ivory shadow]

Yeah.

Chrome probably has its own copy of timezone data, knowing Chrome

[safe dragon]

yup

rely on however your environment keeps tzdata

all I know about it beyond that it's that it's a huge mess for some of the more unusual timezones

[worn remnant]

i don't hate this. if i knew i would have to deploy on a platform that doesn't have a timezone database (a thing i assume chrome has done), i would ship a copy too

[dusty pollen]

so fun fact about the way this is done, it's complete arbitrary nonsense that's just set to be the way that it is, which is why for example the Unix calendar command (correctly) shows a 17-day month at some point in the 1700s in some European countries

time is stupid and is just a list of decisions we have made, stupidly

[ivory shadow]

I think it's probably more to do with Chrome wanting to have up to date information, when it:

1. runs on some OSes that are no longer receiving maintenance
2. runs on some OSes where users are resistant to installing OS updates

[dusty pollen]

other arbitrary decisions they have to update the timezone data for include leap seconds (which iirc are declared a year in advance and don't follow any particular rules)

[safe dragon]

considering even funky things like arduinos maintain a tzdata database I wonder where you'd ever need to embed it

[dusty pollen]

what if I use an Arduino to make an alarm clock that shows both the time in India and the time in the UK

[worn remnant]

those are also good reasons to ship your own

although google probably made its own bed on those, at least a little

[safe dragon]

oh yeah fair

time handling scares me

[dusty pollen]

I gather you've also read Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Time

[worn remnant]

falsehoods_programmers_believe_about_dates.html

[safe dragon]

even in C# where almost all of it is handled for you, especially if you can use DateTimeOffset instead of DateTime

[safe dragon]

yes

much like names

it's not so much that I believe them as much as it is that I refuse to accept the contrary

[ivory shadow]

While we're talking about time, can I complain about Discord having a cool timestamp feature but not having any reasonable way for users to enter one without using third-party tools?

[supple ether]

yeah that drives me nuts

[thin estuary]

I’d also just like them to copy Slack’s „Local time” profile field

[safe dragon]

yeah you pretty much have to know what unix epoch time is and look it up yourself...

and their specific funky format

[ivory shadow]

Yeah. I copied atra and put a "My 12pm is your <blah>" in my Discord bio for that.

[thin estuary]

atra might have copied mine

And I think I’ve copied that from Mirsario from the tModLoader Discord

[ivory shadow]

I ended up making a bot command for getting timestamps.

[safe dragon]

wild differences truly

[thin estuary]

Local time would still be so much better

[ivory shadow]

Hmm, I wonder if mod bot will bop it if I use the command to demonstrate. Let's see.

[thin estuary]

What if it bops you altogether

[safe dragon]

what is my about me anyway

[ivory shadow]

Ah, just no external apps in the channel.

[safe dragon]

oh I don't have one

[ivory shadow]

Well, this is what it looks like.

It's actually pretty popular among my friends, they've started using timestamps more and more.

[safe dragon]

it is quite handy

if you have a friend group in a variety of timezones

it's certainly better than what a lot of sources online do where they give you the time in some specific american timezone and then I have to look up what that means

[supple ether]

I wonder if anyone has made a vencord plugin for inserting timestamps

[ivory shadow]

Probably.

[safe dragon]

it should required for anyone online announcing an event to include UTC in their list of example timezones

[supple ether]

the times on events are localized though

[safe dragon]

you're right

[cinder karma]

Yes

[ivory shadow]

It should be required for every developer making a platform where people might announce something happening at a certain time to create easy to use tools for users to communicate times in a way that will be localized.

[cinder karma]

I'm a copier and unoriginal 😛

[safe dragon]

magical posters that change the time based on the timezone of the area the poster finds itself in

[cinder karma]

I do all my events in seconds since big bang

[ivory shadow]

Someone in silicon valley right now: hey we could make smart posters

Probably

[safe dragon]

already a thing I'm sure

[rain apex]

dont those exist

theres screens in me building's elevator

[supple ether]

I do all of mine in seconds until vacuum decay

[safe dragon]

ah a time format that counts down

[supple ether]

that way you can store timestamps in unsigned floating point numbers /jk

[ivory shadow]

A time format that counts down to an unknowable time

[safe dragon]

speaking of smart screens

the electronic shelf labels at my grocery store were having a rave yesterday

they were all constantly flashing on and off erratically

[ivory shadow]

Ah, progress

[safe dragon]

considering how low power eink shelf labels are I can't imagine they'll last very long constantly flashing like that

[ivory shadow]

Just think of how much time and money they saved not having someone put a new sticker somewhere

[safe dragon]

I've programmed for electronic shelf labels and it's quite the nightmare

[cyan shadow]

What hi fi grocery store is this

[safe dragon]

primarily due to their extremely strict power requirements while still being required to communicate with a server

[cyan shadow]

All the ones near me use paper labels

[safe dragon]

de Plus

[ivory shadow]

Grocery stores love it because they can do surge pricing, which should be illegal

[cyan shadow]

de Plus??????

[supple ether]

tbf replacing shelf labels is time-consuming and a pain in the ass
I'm wary of electronic labels though bc it opens up the possibility of surge pricing

[safe dragon]

yes

[cyan shadow]

I was not expecting that lmao

[supple ether]

technically it is illegal, but places will probably do it anyways

[safe dragon]

don't think grocery stores here do surge pricing? we certainly didn't support it in our software

[ivory shadow]

So, those are all wireless right?

[cyan shadow]

The one I last went to was attached to an MBO, the amount of effort put into the place is very low

[safe dragon]

mine is quite good honestly

[ivory shadow]

I am looking forward to someone with a wireless transmitter one day walking through, say, a Walmart and reprogramming all the shelf labels to run Doom

[cyan shadow]

I wonder if there's another Plus here

Probably not

[safe dragon]

shelf labels? yeah. Part of setting them up is setting up routers with a good enough signal for those damn things to work

[rain apex]

why are they wireless

[safe dragon]

I don't think shelf labels have the power for doom I'm afraid

[safe dragon]

because wiring them all up physically would be expensive and be annoying when your want to change anything about your layout

[ivory shadow]

I'm pretty sure someone has ported Doom to an ESP32 and I can't imagine they're using anything much weaker than that.

[rain apex]

i get that but i figured you'd like, have a controller per shelf

[supple ether]

something I'm surprised I haven't seen yet is a store that's like, a waiting room where you can pick what you want on a tablet, and then the rest of the building is a warehouse and the staff just bring it all out for you. alternatively, you order ahead of time and it's ready when you get there.
it seems like the natural conclusion of a lot of recent trends in retail

[rain apex]

instead of making every label do networking

[cinder karma]

Meh, how is that different than for online shop and pickup

Tbh when I go to a store it's because I want to see the product irl before committing

[supple ether]

it isn't the point is that it's only that, and you can use space more efficiently

[cinder karma]

Case in point, I buy yarn in person, rip joanns

[supple ether]

I mean I do too, I'm just surprised

pickup is wildly popular

[safe dragon]

an annoyance we had with shelf labels is that they have very little battery capacity to work with so they only sporadically request any updates about what they should display. When we had clients who wanted their labels to update their price immediately when entering some discount period we had to build some funky ass solution to in advance schedule the times at which the label had to check for updates so that it would request a new one at the exact time a discount would start

happy hour discounts is where it started and that seemed simple enough cause it's always the same time so we built a quick hack for it...

but then they wanted dynamic time discounts

the bastards

I actually quit working there before that feature was finished so idk how that's going

[ivory shadow]

Time based discounts are just surge pricing wearing a fake nose and silly glasses to disguise itself. I do not like them.

[safe dragon]

I also don't like them from the implementation side of things

even more normal ones because you just know someone's going to be at the cash register at 1:01 pm and get angry at the cashier for not applying the discount she was told she would get according to the label

[ivory shadow]

That's been me before. 🙂

[sand frost]

1pm?? That’s really weird

I always assumed they updated overnight

And that like 24 hour stores maybe would care about turning over at midnight?

I had a grocery near me mislabel the price per volume of oil

[safe dragon]

normally you'd be right yes but there are things like happy hour discounts

[sand frost]

that was really hard to explain to the cashier

I always have seen happy hours at bars only

So the waitstaff determines whether it qualifies

[safe dragon]

Me too but we had clients who had happy hour discounts for some reason though I do not remember which

[sand frost]

(And usually tells you)

[safe dragon]

24 hour stores essentially don't exist here so that's not much of an issue

[cinder karma]

isn't this the costco theory

costco is wildly popular

[sand frost]

They also essentially don’t exist anymore here

[cyan shadow]

Not even the late night stores are 24 hour

[sand frost]

Covid killed most 24 hour stores

[cyan shadow]

the late night stores here open at like 20:00 or something

once the sun goes down, I think

[safe dragon]

strict laws around store opening times prevent such things

[sand frost]

I haven’t been to a 24 hr store that I can recall since 2020

[cyan shadow]

and then there's hema

wanted to go today

they're closed on sundays

[safe dragon]

well it's a sunday

[cyan shadow]

[safe dragon]

yeah

[cyan shadow]

I'm not used to it, okay

[sand frost]

Mornings aren’t an issue for me because I’m asleep then but when i try to grocery shop after work it’s very sad sometimes

[cinder karma]

tbh, I feel that.

[cyan shadow]

I'm getting used to it

but stores are usually open all days of the week back home, so it's been an adjustment

only a few restaurants close on their slow days, that's about it

[cinder karma]

tbh also I agree that minimum wage workers shouldn't have t work in the dead of night

[cyan shadow]

[safe dragon]

24 hour stores have not been feasible here really apart from maybe the airport due to employee protection laws trying to avoid forcing more people to work night shifts than necessary

[cyan shadow]

yep

also just
people have healthier ideas of what a good work week looks like

And I appreciate that a lot, just that sometimes I get struck with home decor inspiration on inopportune days and then I'm grumpy

Action is open on Sunday, at least

I don't have to go to HEMA for a silly fabric basket

[safe dragon]

fwiw far more stores are open on sundays than back when I was a kid

[cyan shadow]

yep

my bestie told me as much

[safe dragon]

as a kid we had special shopping sundays in the city near my town where the stores would be open and we'd go there to buy clothes

not even the grocery store was open on sundays in my own town

nowadays it's open from 12 to 4