programmers-off-topic

[rotund violet]

There was a pretty big shitstorm over it and eventually they backed down. Probably some lawyer had to calmly explain in loud but very short and simple words why they couldn't simply start billing people who hadn't signed any kind of contract.

It may also be a few shady companies adopting a spray-and-pray strategy, just doing whatever they can get away with (we probably only hear about the cases they don't get away with).

[cinder karma]

Weird af tbh

I can understand wanting to cash out but still

[rain apex]

100 dollars per seat sounds like enough money for companies to just remove ur library

[safe dragon]

especially when it's this straightforward to remove

even if a dev somehow needs an entire week for some reason to swap over to regular asserts it'd be cheaper in a lot of cases

and realistically you'd get it done in a day

you could pretty much write a regex or vim macro that does this automatically

[rotund violet]

It probably won't seem so weird if you check out their other pricing: https://xceed.com/products/net/

For example, $700-$1900 for a zip library. Tells you a lot about their business model and target market.

And you know, we did pay this kind of money back in the 2000-2010 era when the market was really scarce, or at least the discoverability was very poor. It's just that the world has moved on from that.

[safe dragon]

yeah

[cinder karma]

I have an unpopular opinion

Int + str = str is perfectly clear and should be acceptable

Now, int + str = int would be weird

[rain apex]

What about int + char = int

[rotund violet]

Yeah, not feeling it. Sure, it's clear if that's what you meant to do, but it's ambiguous if that's what you meant to do vs. if you screwed up.

Mostly not allowed for basic "avoid footguns" reasons except in languages that aren't good at avoiding footguns.

[frosty echo]

Depends what the string contains

[rotund violet]

(Again, footguns. You do not want languages or frameworks where the type safety depends on the actual value held by some variable or identifier.)

[safe dragon]

this kind of stuff is the kind of behavior you shouldn't start introducing cause it's inevitably going cause trouble

[frosty echo]

How about one operator (+ presumably) which always adds, and a different operator that always concatenates?

[safe dragon]

quite a few languages do that yeah

in elixir for example string concatenation is done with <>

[thin estuary]

Lua does so with ..

[safe dragon]

smh what's with that reaction

[rotund violet]

Not my reaction, but <> did used to mean "not equal" in a lot of older languages, strange to see it repurposed for "concatenate".

[safe dragon]

yeah I figured

oracle db is fun here where not equal is inded <> but string concetenation is |

[rain apex]

I think the concat operator should be 🐱

[safe dragon]

yes

[rotund violet]

...why?

[frosty echo]

And two characters, two different characters, even without that

[safe dragon]

cause cat

for easy of typing we can use the operator :3 instead

[rain apex]

"My dudes it's "🐈"Wednesday"

[white raft]

Made me laugh, thanks

[rotund violet]

I can understand the moon logic that went into that operator. Like, if >> is "append right" and << is "append left" then "<>" kind of makes sense as "smash these two together".

[safe dragon]

not like two characters is strange for an operator

[rotund violet]

But it's definitely moon logic, not earth logic.

[safe dragon]

!= <= &&

+= even

[white raft]

*= /=

[rain apex]

I think this is sinful why is it pipe

[safe dragon]

idk

ask oracle

tbh for haskell developers all this probably seems tame

they have dozens of extra ones

[white raft]

I knew one person who overloaded the [] operator on an array to perform a search

[rotund violet]

Yeah well, they need all those extra operators because the language refuses to give you simple ways to do simple things.

[safe dragon]

try explaining to me exactly what <$ <$> and $> do

[rotund violet]

So it's all this nonsense about monads and such.

Haskell is the language of choice for those who treat functional programming as a religion rather than a tool.

[safe dragon]

actually <$> is for applicative functors smh

it's a research language that tries its hardest to deny being one sometimes

[lethal walrus]

Having to do git on a phone because obsidian's git plugin is either very bad on mobile or that's just git but I had to just delete the local copy and start over.. fun

[pliant snow]

$> is &> but you forgot what key the dollar sign is on

[safe dragon]

I have now made an irreversible decision at work

[lethal walrus]

Is it bad irreversible or good irreversible

[safe dragon]

I will be not be developing the new front-end in Blazor

presumably good

a meeting has now been planned to choose between Javascript frameworks

Blazor was the original plan due to the previous person who worked here wanting to use it and it's part of why I was hired since I had experience with it

but I'd very much rather not

preferably svelte but I'll take react

[sonic mirage]

We're mostly a C# and PHP shop, and while I haven't checked out Blazor myself, a couple other guys on the team - whose opinion I trust - described it at being an absolute dumpster fire and to avoid it at all costs.

[crystal wren]

That's basically what Crumble convinced me of with all of that information.

[sonic mirage]

They gave me a few egregious examples of the terribleness, but I don't remember them specifically

[cinder karma]

Easy! You earn money to the left. You earn money to the right

You earn money to the center

What's so complicated about it?

[safe dragon]

wrong

you never earn money with haskell

[fleet wren]

Much like a species that is extinct in the wild, Haskell is preserved only in captivity - aka college CS clubs

[safe dragon]

well here's another confirmation of that fact

it's just barely better than MAUI due to technically working most of the time

perhaps strange to say after all that but I do actually enjoy working with Blazor on a normal day to day basis from a development experience side

but that's mostly just because I like asp.net core

[supple ether]

Have you tried liquid/fluid? It seems like a good substitute templating engine, though it doesn't do clientside reactive stuff

[safe dragon]

looks interesting

won't use it for work but I might try it out

[native cedar]

hello

[safe dragon]

hello again

[pliant snow]

What tools do people use to benchmark python code?

Thinks like getting flamegraphs or a general idea of what functions utilize the most resources

[lethal walrus]

If this is about governor look at my functions first

[pliant snow]

It's about bouncer/governor, but nothing in particular. I've just never really bothered doing any profiling on them, and figured there's probably a lot lot of low hanging fruit somewhere

cProfile looks promising

[safe dragon]

damn aquo diving into profiling

[marble jewel]

I can't speak to this from personal experience, but I've always felt like JetBrains makes useful tools that work well for developers, and their IDE advertises profiling as one of its features

[safe dragon]

they've got solid tooling for C#

[ivory shadow]

I haven't benchmarked Python code in over a decade. 2.7 was still the hotness back when I did Python. (As opposed to now when 2.7 is that thing that just won't die no matter how hard they try.)

Didn't do much benchmarking then either. Ended up swapping to PyPy from CPython for a couple things at work for faster performance. Those services have been moved off Python entirely at this point though.

[rotund violet]

People benchmark python? Isn't that kind of like benchmarking a Citroën?

[safe dragon]

gotta turn slow code into less slow code

[scenic elbow]

Any advice for a gal trying to get back into programming? My last two tech jobs burned me out and I want to get back into

[safe dragon]

easier said than done but find a project that you are passionate about even ignoring the programming aspect of it

dabble in open source projects possibly

programming without the corporate aspects

[scenic elbow]

Tysm! I think taking the corporate aspect out of it will help

[rotund violet]

If you don't like games, then I'd say try finding projects that either tie in with another hobby or will help you get through the daily grind somehow. Always easier to summon up motivation for those.

[safe dragon]

I hate games

[floral parcel]

I like making half-assed video games that I never finish

[stray marsh]

Crumble gave some good advice, but depending on your level of capability, that might be difficult to jump into.

What area of software you working in? Native desktop, Mobile applications, web client servers?

[cinder karma]

https://youtube.com/shorts/04aHabdYN5M?si=aBFFqOGnqN8xqKyL

[scenic elbow]

I fell off programming after college. I'm thinking of attempting projects that sound interesting. I was planning on starting with Stardew since I love it lol

I want to start making mobile applications but I can't decide on where to start lmfaoooo

[stray marsh]

If you plan on starting with mobile applications, a good place to start is with React Native. It will allow you to deploy whatever you create to both Android and iOS

[stray marsh]

If i'm not mistaken, stardew is written in C#

My advice is to just not put too much pressure on yourself. Set realistic goals, and work on things you enjoy or that will provide you with some value when finished

[scenic elbow]

No it means a lot

I want to bring back the joy I used to have learning

[stray marsh]

Yeah for sure - if you ever need help, feel free to reach out with questions directly

[safe dragon]

so my home server just turned off due to a short power outage yesterday which is annoying since I’m not home and can go turn it back on either

does anyone have experience with UPS things

and what to look for

I think it’d be a good idea to protect it against this and power surges in the future

[marble jewel]

Are you rackmounted or a regular case?

[pliant snow]

I have a UPS. It was on sale. It's kicked on like twice. Thus concludes my experience with UPSs

Actually what brand is it

APC

I have no strong feelings about it

[safe dragon]

regular case

apc seems to be the only brand that exists as far as I can find in the Netherlands

[marble jewel]

I use CyberPower in my house. They work well for my purposes.

And I seem to have semi-frequent issues with power due to heavy winds affecting the power lines.

[safe dragon]

my powerlines are underground so this has been the only power outage of any kind I have experienced in many years

I’ll check if cyberpower exists in my country

I can import it from germany but that seems about it

[rotund violet]

APC is... fine, mostly. By far the easiest to get. The units are bulky and the batteries will eventually fail and need to be replaced after a few years, and in many cases when they fail or are starting to fail they will shriek non-stop until either they are powered off or the battery is replaced. I wouldn't call them good designs, but they're affordable and they do the job as long as you keep up with the battery replacement.

I recently got a Vertiv which is notable for having a Li-Ion battery instead of the garbage lead acid batteries in APC, CyberPower, etc. But I haven't had it long enough to comment on whether it's actually a good unit.

If it's fairly low power then there are better options made for telcos, e.g. the kinds they use (or used to use) to keep power on copper lines and distribution equipment. They are smaller, quieter, last longer, etc., but they aren't wired for home use so you have to mod them. (Not that it's terribly difficult, just not plug-and-play)

[safe dragon]

I have 2 left hands and wouldn’t know one wire from the other

I’ll stick to plug and play

[rotund violet]

You did say it's a server, I don't know if that's just something you're storing your music collection on or if it's actually critical for backups or home automation or whatever. The problem with APC and CP is that every year they find more corners to cut and the units sold today are really hit or miss in terms of reliability. If you can find a used Eaton on eBay (actually Eaton, not Tripp-Lite which happened to be bought out by Eaton but is still crap) then it will be way more reliable for critical infrastructure and I think most of them are standard line voltage.

Pricier though, obviously. The consumer versions are cheap for a reason.

[cinder karma]

tbh if my use case was "I want this server to have better uptime" isn

there a way in the biose to make it wake up?

[safe dragon]

it’s mostly file storage but if the whole thing vanished from existence tomorrow I wouldn’t actually lose anything

cause any file stored there also has backups synced to other devices

[cinder karma]

At work we care more about the capacity of our UPS, because wellllll

Your Generic Server = small power consumption

Your Generic Computer Also Attached to Oven = big power consumption

[safe dragon]

yeah someone recommended checking if the bios supports an option to automatically turn back on when the power returns

which might honestly be enough for me

[rotund violet]

Just gotta be careful about brownouts and other intermittent power problems with that. If it's got rate-limiting or multiple-failure detection then you're fine.

But definitely, if that's good enough for you then I would go that way over a UPS, especially if there are no mechanical drives. UPS is technically safer, yes, but it's another thing you have to maintain.

[regal ingot]

APC does sell Li-ion products, but at a glance it looks like they are all rack-mount. I've heard rumors that the build quality is down from Back in the Day™, but I have no direct experience. I don't know about the newer units, but the ones I have from mumble years ago will definitely let you know loudly and repeatedly when it thinks the battery needs to be replaced. I suppose that's a feature, but it's hard to see it that way when the thing starts beeping for 30-60 seconds in the middle of the night.

Some models have hot-swappable batteries, so you don't have to power down anything while you swich it out.

[rotund violet]

Yeah, there are YT videos on how to disconnect that stupid alarm but I never had the courage to try it myself. I've been using APCs for 15+ years and can definitely attest to the decline in quality. Maybe not as severe as, say, refrigerators, they're not being designed badly as far as I can tell, just poor quality control. Lots of cases of batteries that only last a year, random switching on and off standby, even some cases of the entire unit shorting out in a puff of smoke instead of switching to battery.

[regal ingot]

I've also had some batteries that lasted just over a year - in the decade(s) old unit. I'm not sure if it was an issue with the battery or the unit starting to show its age somehow.

[ivory shadow]

I have a few APC units. They don't have to last long for me, since I have an automatic backup generator here. I want to get solar and a battery system at some point but that's a lot of money

[regal ingot]

I would be so into a solar + battery system if my house wasn't surrounded by trees. Getting a standby generator has been on my to-do list for well over a year now.

[marble jewel]

Same here. I’ve looked into solar and my house doesn’t get enough sunlight to make it worth it.

I would like a battery backup though that can at least sustain my essentials for up to a day.

[ivory shadow]

My home is basically on a hill in the middle of a field, so I'm fine from a shade perspective. But I do live somewhat north (mid-Michigan) so there's that working against me a little. A little mind. Plenty of folk around here have solar even in a rural village.

[cyan shadow]

We use a UPS as primary power backup for my parents' house since we have extremely frequent powercuts, but unfortunately, it's an Indian company so I can't really recommend them - they're solid enough but it'll cost a fortune to import lmao

[safe dragon]

I have a power outage once every few years

[rotund violet]

Solar as backup power is still in kind of a bad place for a lot of people because (a) it's very hard to do off-grid due to regulations, and having it on-grid is staggeringly ineffective and wasteful, and (b) the batteries still suck, except (ironically) the ones now being made in China... for cars. That's not to say it can't be done, but I think it's kind of a 50/50 split between "reliable backup power" and "expensive hobby".

I have seen people using it fairly effectively for fully off-grid structures though, like sheds and rainwater harvesting.

(Also, I never said that no APC batteries last over a year, I said that QC is bad and there are many instances of people buying new units and having the supposedly brand-new batteries die after a short time)

[sonic mirage]

Yeah I have a APC Back-UPS 1000 that's been running for ~3 years for my main PC, router, etc. and it's been fine, but I'm not sure that it doing its one job is a reason to endorse it as a good product. I do know that we have a ton of them at work and they seem to be mostly APC, so either they're the only game in town or they're good enough to keep buying.

[safe dragon]

at least where I live they seem to be the only game in town

which does make the choice easy if I go that route

[sonic mirage]

I believe when I installed this it looked like it had a pretty easily-swapped battery, at least

It's kicked on at least 10 times since I've installed it, so it does its job. The best use of it was when we had a brown-out where things were flickering for a solid 15 seconds. Our other PC that isn't on a UPS was in some weird power state and needed power cycled a couple times to start up normally afterwards, but my main one was fine due to the UPS

That was like a month ago and the Christmas tree lights looked like they were trying to do Morse code

[safe dragon]

the superstition in me believes that if I do buy this, I won't experience another power outage for many more years but if I don't buy it then my power goes out by like next week

[rotund violet]

They're definitely the easiest to get; CyberPower has fewer options (and a lesser reputation, even if undeservedly so) and Tripp-Lite is really not very good and hard to find anyway.

There are lots of other brands available if you search for enterprise or telco UPS, but it's hardly surprising that a lot of businesses spring for the cheap consumer models - or have IT people who just want to stick with a brand they already know from the consumer market.

Every year I tend to experience several minor surges, about one failure (anywhere from 10 minutes to several hours) and maybe the odd sag for a few seconds at a time. The APCs, of which there are two, one for the network equipment and one for the main PC, have never failed to keep the equipment on, at least for as long as its battery lasts. So as I say, they are "fine", just not amazing in terms of product design (they're rather bulky and their beeping and screeching during power events is insufferable) or battery longevity (expect to get a few years at most before needing to replace it).

[cyan shadow]

power goes off routinely in Bangalore - either via foreign objects flying into the transformers and shorting them, trees falling on the wires in the rain, the rain itself, the will of the power company, the alignment of the moon...
that is to say, it's rare to go more than a month without at least one short outage

(overhead wires are a bitch.)

[safe dragon]

I'm so used to basically all wiring being underground that it looks odd to me when I'm somewhere where it's not

[cyan shadow]

yeah it looks odd in the parts of the city where the wiring is underground, tbh

we're so used to a criss-cross of wiring all over the place that when you go to an area that doesn't have that, you're like
huh

I like not having wires overhead though, it's way safer

[safe dragon]

I like it too

except when they break open my sidewalk again for the 6th time that year for maintenance or some changes

[cyan shadow]

I mean

At least they work quickly?

[safe dragon]

true

takes a few hours

[rain apex]

i like when theres birds on the wires

cute...

[safe dragon]

that's what we are truly missing out on

ignoring the long distance power lines but I'd need binoculars to look at birds on those

[rain apex]

i do realise these birds are probably good chunk of the "foreign objects"

[cyan shadow]

Pigeons

It's always pigeons

The rest of them are smart enough not to go near the buzzing box

[safe dragon]

no shortage of pigeons here either

[cyan shadow]

Surprisingly, I see more crows than pigeons in my city in NL

And those blue and black fellows

[rain apex]

there is this one particularly round pigeon that i see next to the subway station

hes there everyday maybe he commutes too

[safe dragon]

tbh I don't think we have nearly as many pigeons as we once did

amsterdam is still completely full of them though

maybe tourists feed them more or something

[cyan shadow]

I was gonna say the pigeons are the tourists

They all up and left the other cities to go cause chaos in Amsterdam

[safe dragon]

when will amsterdam post ads advising pigeons to stay out of amsterdam

actually I don't think it worked for the british either

[cyan shadow]

It did not

Amsterdam was full of them when I last visited

[crystal wren]

[cyan shadow]

Hi DH!

[safe dragon]

hi

[crystal wren]

I haven't even been there yet!

[cyan shadow]

You're not in the demographic those ads are targeting anyway

British men under 25 it said

You're over 25 you're free to come have a pint

[safe dragon]

just please appreciate parts of the city and/or country that aren't found in the red light district

🙏

[cyan shadow]

Come to my city we have absolutely nothing touristy, but we have a direct bus to Efteling

[safe dragon]

we do have tourists here cause like, Gouda

[rain apex]

I feel like no one's ever proud of their city

[cyan shadow]

I should do a cheese pilgrimage

Ironically, I went from one non touristy city to another

[crystal wren]

I'd be more likely to go to Leerdam if I was doing a cheese tour.

[cyan shadow]

Bangalore isn't really a tourist hotspot, it's more a hub to go to other places

[safe dragon]

damn

I can't imagine like any of the tourists who visit Gouda get much out of it. It's a fine city but it being the origin of a cheese doesn't really improve the experience taht much

well, it's not even the origin of the cheese

it's just its namesake

[cyan shadow]

My aunt just liked it because it was pretty, she said

[safe dragon]

it's a pretty place yeah

[cyan shadow]

Plus nice cheese

[safe dragon]

though very standard dutch city vibes

which like, isn't a bad thing

[cyan shadow]

[safe dragon]

and at least it's not dordrecht

[cyan shadow]

What's wrong with Dordrecht?

[safe dragon]

that I grew somewhere where I am required by birth to hate on dordrecht

[crystal wren]

Ahh, one of those situations!

[safe dragon]

much like rotterdam

[cyan shadow]

Ah, same as my situation with Delhi, then

[safe dragon]

unfortunately I have some funky "onboarding experience" thing for work in dordrecht soon cause the company got bought and the new owner wants to do some funky shit

[cyan shadow]

I associatie funky weird shit with Enschede

[safe dragon]

a city name I pronounced incorrectly for years

[cyan shadow]

I pronounce it the way my friend from Gelderland does

If I get it wrong it's his fault

[violet crypt]

can anybody tell me whats up with this?

[safe dragon]

a scary font

[cyan shadow]

Hi, please post in #1272025932932055121

[violet crypt]

oh yes thank u

[safe dragon]

it's an out of bounds exception fwiw

but what that actually entails in this case, lords knows

[cyan shadow]

Smapi mobile is very unstable

[safe dragon]

lord knows

[rain apex]

Wait that's 1.5.6

[cyan shadow]

OH

[rain apex]

Fear

[crystal wren]

I always see that crop up with Android SMAPI. Even the old ZaneYork version. I just... question how it never got fixed...

[violet crypt]

yeah lol at this point i gave up on modding it

[cyan shadow]

Yeahhhh spidey you're not gonna get that to work, I don't think

[rain apex]

!androidsmapi

[indigo mist]

Android SMAPI

There is an unofficial port of SMAPI for Stardew 1.6 to Android. Please see the wiki instructions for more information.

IMPORTANT: This is a highly experimental build and may be prone to glitches, bugs, or incompatibilities. We are not able to provide support if you run into trouble or compatibility issues; please use the discord linked on the Android SMAPI github.

Do not harass mod authors to make Android specific compatibility patches.

To use this command, type !androidsmapi.

[cyan shadow]

There we go

[violet crypt]

oh sad :((

[rain apex]

Take this and do not darken the steps of this corner of server where sdv talk is off topic

[violet crypt]

yeah lol

thanks for help thoo

[crystal wren]

Yes, this is where we talk about programming, the Netherlands, and cheese apparently.

[cyan shadow]

Look, cheese drives the programming

[safe dragon]

considering they're not from this area I wonder if they know how the city name "Gorinchem" is supposed to be pronounced

[cyan shadow]

I dunno

I could ask him

But it is 2am

So I shall sleep

[safe dragon]

wtf

[cyan shadow]

I'll report back later

[safe dragon]

oh you're not here rn

[cyan shadow]

I'm not back yet

[safe dragon]

good night

[cyan shadow]

I fly out in a couple days

[crystal wren]

I was gonna say, what kind of time warp did I walk into?

[safe dragon]

my sleep would be so screwed if it were 2 am rn

[cyan shadow]

My sleep is screwed

Once I get back the cold will make me eep

Hibernation

[safe dragon]

cold as shit here rn

you missed a whole week of perpetual deep thick fog

[cyan shadow]

Weather forecast is for high single digits when I arrive

[crystal wren]

That's... higher than I've had for weeks.

[cyan shadow]

Oh I know, friend was in a perpetual state of "Weh." during said fog

[safe dragon]

it's also higher than I've had for a while

[cyan shadow]

He said "Gorkum"

[safe dragon]

ok he knows

[cyan shadow]

Jesus

He knows a lot of random things

[safe dragon]

it made for good photos at least

like an old videogame with bad render distance

[safe dragon]

excellent

[rain apex]

do u like living in silent hill

[safe dragon]

not particularly... I had to walk through this to get to a pickup point for a package I missed and it felt very eerie

[crystal wren]

Reminds me of this for some reason, even though it isn't foggy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2paNFnw1wRs

I guess just train station is enough.

[safe dragon]

alas, no crickets here

no higurashi

wait wtf this is unreal engine 5 rendering

oh dear

[crystal wren]

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

[rain apex]

What game engine is Netherlands running on

[safe dragon]

good question

[rotund violet]

That feels eerie to you? High standards. I could list several hundred areas of the US that I'd be much warier of walking around.

[cinder karma]

Yeah, have you been outside a mall at night lol

I felt safer running around Boston at midnight

[rotund violet]

Boston at midnight is definitely going to make that top 200. But somewhere below downtown Manhattan, Chicago, DC or Louisville at midnight. Or the rural parts of Appalachia during a massive snowstorm.

Or pretty much anywhere there are nightclubs at around 2-3 am. Though for the past few years, those spots have tended to be more dead than sketchy.

[sand frost]

Boston at midnight is not generally that bad imo? like it's a big city, sure, but it's mostly sleepy by that hour except near the clubs (I assume, not having been to them)

rural appalachia during a snowstorm is much more somewhere I would not prefer to be tbh

[safe dragon]

hey I don't exactly live in a very dangerous area

an area this size being mostly deserted is enough to feel eerie

[rotund violet]

Yes, Boston is actually one of the least bad of the large metros in that regard. Not great, but definitely not a no-go zone either.

Pick your poison: the worst that society has to offer with no way to escape, or the worst that nature has to offer with no way to contact another living soul.
(And anyone who think it's an easy decision has not experienced both)

[sand frost]

I mean NYC at midnight is also just...NYC, but dark out, pretty much

maybe around 4am is eerier

[rotund violet]

That really depends which part of NYC.

[sand frost]

fair, I was thinking Manhattan

south of central park

[rotund violet]

Like all such cities, it's a big place, there are many areas that are fine and many others where you don't want to be hanging around. And it's generally more micro than an entire area; like one block is perfectly fine, and as soon as you cross the intersection it's suddenly not.

[sand frost]

fair enough, but there's a pretty large area that is full of people until solidly later than midnight and generally safe in my experience

[safe dragon]

I go on walks in the middle of night sometimes

it's nice

in summer anyway

[supple ether]

I love night walks, any season. They're what keep me sane

[cinder karma]

Yeah, I was never scared around mass Ave at night

Never a problem

[supple ether]

I don't care whether or not they're dangerous, but I live in an area where it's probably not very dangerous

[cinder karma]

@devout trellis

[scenic elbow]

I got laid off a few weeks ago and have to start studying for tech interviews

And don't know how to start lol

[pliant snow]

uv is so neat

Even if I know like a fraction of its features

[safe dragon]

a mystery for the ages honestly. Can be anything from them actually asking questions relevant to the job function to random stolen leetcode problems no one will ever make use of in practice

why ask about... idk, details of the REST standard for a web dev position when you can ask them to implement a bitonic sorting algorithm

[sand frost]

I mean, there’s always the option to just do a bunch of advent of code?

[safe dragon]

you might even enjoy it

[sand frost]

Like, there’s two levels here: one is predicting which problems they’ll ask (if any) and the other is feeling like you’re doing something productive

Ideally you achieve both

[rain apex]

Should leetcode all the usual suspects yeah

[safe dragon]

in reality my current job didn't even have a technical interview

[rain apex]

The top 150 interviews thing on leetcode was pretty decent

Besides that i think it helps a lot to be able to have stories to tell

Like oh yeah i was involved in such and such project and i did great go me

[sand frost]

I’ve been asked things like “tell me about a time a group project went poorly, and how you handled that”

[rain apex]

(Ideally u aren't making it up full cloth obviously)

[sand frost]

Or just about projects on my resume

Polishing up your GitHub could also be a thing to do

It refreshes your memory on projects too

It’s always a little embarrassing when they find that one project from 10 years ago that’s actually super relevant and you’re like “ooh, yeah, I nearly forgot about that”

[safe dragon]

luckily all my public github repos are advent of code in different languages

🙏

[sand frost]

In my case this was buried in my resume but i think I recovered ok—I did get the job in the end!

[safe dragon]

👌

I think I was hired more on a vibe check than them actually knowing how to judge technical ability

[scenic elbow]

I need to find a balance between projects and study

My last job was toxic but working on Strawdew mods has been fun

[pliant snow]

Tech interviews can be all over the place. Some really focus on stuff like algorithms and O(n) and stuff like that. I've sat in on interviews for potential hires at my job, and ours are fairly simple questions, but deal with pointer arithmatic a bit.

[pliant snow]

A lot of it is honestly stuff like this though, general interviewing questions

[safe dragon]

I did have questions like that yeah

[cinder karma]

Tbh if you have previous projects they should have an idea of your competence

But also like

[pliant snow]

Yes... my previous projects show my competence.... that's right...

[safe dragon]

I can tell from your previous works that you vaguely understand how websites work, very impressive

even using web optimized images for the sdv leaderboards

[pliant snow]

vaguely is the keyword

soon though... my masterpiece will be up there

[cinder karma]

One day

It will be perfect

[rotund violet]

I never did interview prep. My position is, if they ask me to solve a problem I can't solve, then either (a) I'm not actually smart enough or proficient enough in the area they care about to work there, or (b) their hiring process is mismanaged and by extension their whole company is probably mismanaged. Either way, just take the L.

[safe dragon]

as long as you have the freedom to be a little picky about where you work

[rotund violet]

I always tried to make the coding problems actually relevant to the skill set when I was the interviewer, but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way.

[rotund violet]

Skilled engineers generally do have that freedom unless they're living in the middle of nowhere and can't work remote.

[safe dragon]

while it has not been my experience in the slightest there does seem to be an increasing number of people struggling to find software dev jobs

generally juniors

[rotund violet]

While I'm not pointing a finger at anyone particular, there are an awful lot of people trying to get software dev jobs who cannot write fizzbuzz, and if they can write fizzbuzz then they fail on only marginally more sophisticated problems.

Some people genuinely struggle for reasons that are objectively unfair, yes; others struggle because they simply chose the wrong career.

[cinder karma]

I'm gonna dig out that one python fizzbuzz impl that involves seeding the random

But tbh I think a lot of people can be taught

[safe dragon]

most people I personally I know who struggled finding a dev job actually just had major issues with the social aspect of an interview. They fail the vibe check to say it in a very zoomer way

[rotund violet]

A lot is still a minority of those applying.

[safe dragon]

true

[rotund violet]

Most people can learn most skills with years, even decades of practice. But the tech companies want quick learners.

[pliant snow]

Yeah, it's the vibes and honestly, we see a lot of a candidates who are talented, but seem like they don't actually want to work on the team, they're just applying for stuff and hope they fit. Which I kinda get, it's hard to really get an idea what a team does from a job listing

[rotund violet]

They can't afford to wait 3 years for a new engineer to figure out how to contribute to a project that's not even going to last 2 years.

[sand frost]

No crumble is right the economy is shit

[pliant snow]

That must be wild, I work out of a like 20 year old repo lol

[sand frost]

Very smart people are not getting jobs easily these days

[safe dragon]

I'm currently replacing a 31 year old application

🙏

[rotund violet]

Interesting, I saw very little of that as an interviewer, but I was interviewing at places where there were a lot of different opportunities where applications could be placed, so maybe that was part of it.

[rain apex]

I think some ppl r also just not great at presenting that they know shit

[rotund violet]

I see a lot of very smart people checking out of the job market entirely. I don't see a lot of very smart people actively pursuing work and failing to find it.

[pliant snow]

The position we've been trying to fill is kinda half dev half management, so we see a lot of people who aren't interested in the management half

[safe dragon]

my current job's interview process was like 80% them figuring out if I seemed like someone they could get along with and wouldn't collapse under the responsibility of the job

[sand frost]

A lot of my friends are engineers and not precisely CS, but a bunch of startups are failing and putting people out of work, and there's layoffs

[pliant snow]

Therefore, be a dumb person

[cyan shadow]

My mom does technical interviews for her team now, and she says that she looks for two things:

1. Even if they don't necessarily know the exact solution to a problem that she might use, if they can demonstrate an understanding of the problem and do their best to solve it (even if the solution is a bit clunky.)
2. Enough Figure It Out to get by even when the guys that know everything in the team are on leave.

[rain apex]

I was help friend with interview prep and they clearly know all the algorithms but they don't real express what they did in a clear and ordered way

[cinder karma]

Tbh it's hard to figure out if you vibe with a team from the interview

[safe dragon]

Ive been to 3 interviews in my life and have never given one so I'm an expert

[rotund violet]

These are always temporary, localized phenomena. What those friends are really saying is "I can't find a software job in San Francisco that's willing to pay me enough to cover my $950k mortgage", which is probably true, you're fighting for the top 0.1% of job spots.

[sand frost]

Lots of my friends do not live in SF

[cyan shadow]

Communication issues matter a bit less in Indian workplaces because they're heavily multilingual, so as long as you can somewhat get your point across to everyone, you're okay
You don't have to be eloquent or anything

[sand frost]

(Most of my friends do not live in SF, tbh)

[rotund violet]

Obviously a synecdoche, let's not be overly literal.

[safe dragon]

despite having the social skills of a paralyzed cod on a beach when it comes to casual settings I seem to have no issues at all with job interviews

[cyan shadow]

But yeah, there are layoffs happening absolutely everywhere and it sucks

[red crest]

(this is motivating for other paralyzed cods like me)

[safe dragon]

here I think we're in a hiring boom rn

for software devs

companies got rid of all their temp staff during covid and are now trying to get the teams back to a good size

[cyan shadow]

A lot of people in India are working for the lowest starter salaries the industry has seen in decades, which sucks

[safe dragon]

I have heard anecdotally that junior software dev salaries have been going down here?

[rotund violet]

There are a lot of layoffs, and yet there are a lot of companies saying they can't find employees. This is always the state of the market; some companies expand too aggressively, or decline too much in competency profitability to retain their old staff. Others feel like they can't pay the kinds of salaries those laid-off employees were getting. Or they're just cheap.

[cyan shadow]

600k rupees per annum is um
Enough for small town living but not for a big city unless you still live with your parents or live in a rented room

[safe dragon]

unfortunate that those dang software companies aren't in those small towns

[cyan shadow]

Yep

[rotund violet]

And everybody has selective hearing. Every hiring manager is utterly convinced that the employees simply aren't there, and every job seeker is utterly convinced that the jobs aren't there.

[safe dragon]

technically both can be true

[cinder karma]

Yeah

[rotund violet]

Both can be true if there's a market failure, yes. But the real reasons for that happening are still taboo to discuss.

[cinder karma]

Half dev half management sounds like hell

Sorrh

I would see that and run

[safe dragon]

me too

[rotund violet]

(the formal name of that is "TLM" - tech lead manager - it's sadly very common even though I've always hated the idea)

[safe dragon]

do not let me be a manager

[sonic mirage]

Would you .. Crumble .. under the pressure?

[safe dragon]

[cyan shadow]

Half dev half management sounds like a recipe for overwork

[cyan shadow]

[cinder karma]

I would be fine going into management under one condition only

[safe dragon]

half dev half management is code for two fulltime jobs

[cinder karma]

It would have to be at the same company and with thr same team as I previously worked with

[cyan shadow]

My mom went into management without the dev responsibilities, that seems to be working for her now

[pliant snow]

that's the position I just moved into 😎

[safe dragon]

gratz

[sonic mirage]

I couldn't pass it up

[safe dragon]

hope you make millions

[pliant snow]

y-yeah millions

[rotund violet]

That's the best outcome, in practice it's usually a recipe for devs who get nothing done because they're too busy with management, yet still make terrible managers because they're too emotionally involved with technical decisions.

[pliant snow]

😐

[safe dragon]

maybe when I'm old and too tired to learn whatever the new dumb development trends are I will consider management

[cyan shadow]

Yeah, I'm not in the IT world myself so I only see things from the perspective of what my parents are doing. But that does sound about right from what I've heard from them

[sonic mirage]

My dept lead manages to both code and manage us, and while there's only 3 of us, he's also meeting with clients a lot. Not sure how he still manages to get code done, but he does. It takes a certain kind of person though, for sure

[rotund violet]

I have rejected two TLM positions because I refused to put myself in that situation. And as an IC, I have always, always been both happier and more productive under a regular "non-technical" manager.

[sonic mirage]

I can't be interrupted all the time like he is or I'd be completely useless

[cyan shadow]

My dad's apparently been doing enough work for four, so now that he's retired his old workplace has been absolutely scrambling to find replacements

[rotund violet]

Though I will admit, you do have to have some social skills to deal with traditional managers. Some of the severely er... limited devs do seem to do better under TLMs, although the same thing can be achieved with a regular manager a strong TL; companies just don't like to pay for both.

Like, almost half of devs I've worked with, especially juniors, simply do not understand the concept of negotiating requirements or deadlines.

[sonic mirage]

I'm of the opinion that good managers still participate in the actual work that their people are doing though, otherwise they eventually lose touch with it

[rotund violet]

(This is a product of the education system, where all work is predefined and all deadlines are final. Rots your brain.)

[safe dragon]

all the deadlines were also final at my old job 🙏

meanwhile this place barely seems to have the concept of a deadline

[rotund violet]

Well, if there is a literal contract spelling out a literal deadline then sure, the deadline is final, although that usually means the scope and/or cost is negotiable. You can't have all three. (Not that people don't try anyway, but it guarantees failure)

[sonic mirage]

Most of my interactions with clients are describing how long things will take, and yes it is more complicated than they think, and yes there are potential unknowns that could slow things down but we will let you know if those crop up

[rotund violet]

I agree with this. It's a different kind of participation from a TLM, though.

[safe dragon]

the real endgame of a tech lead is to make a youtube channel to react to new dumb programming takes on twitter while you keep mentioning how you used to work for [big company]

[rotund violet]

I remember one manager who liked to code little scripts to help with overly complicated processes or other annoyances. He was one of the better ones.

[sonic mirage]

We build buffer into all estimated projects, but if its one of our pay-as-we-go kind of clients then you have to be more up front about potential speed bumps so they're not surprised

[rotund violet]

I don't like formalized contracting/consulting in software, but it is good experience for dealing with the real world of nebulous requirements and unknown costs.

[cinder karma]

It's also different for a small, less structured team

[sonic mirage]

Yeah we all wear a lot of hats since we're a smaller company

Keeps it interesting, though

[safe dragon]

honestly in my experience so far the smaller teams where everyone wears a lot of hats seem to function a lot better than bigger ones

[rotund violet]

And I'm not being snippy (well maybe a little snippy) when I say that these are often the same sorts of people whom you find later complaining that they can't find a job, once their YT revenue dries up. They are not as hot as they think they are.

[cinder karma]

Higher average figure it out per capita

[sand frost]

Best manager I've ever had was one of my best friends for a student project, because she is extremely organized and extremely even-tempered. Our team ran so well the friends on it look back fondly a decade later as they're in the workforce and have more to compare.

[sonic mirage]

We typically do a "big project" with new clients via an estimate and contract, then try to move them to just hourly work, which is easier/less overhead for everyone. Our longer term clients are mostly just hourly, with the occasional estimated project thrown in, though not always with a contract for that estimate.

[rotund violet]

Yeah, everyone thinks they want fixed-price when they're starting out but it's really one of the worst ways to go in software.

They're taking metaphors from the brick-and-mortar world and trying to bring them into the digital world.

In software, 99% of the cost is labor.

[safe dragon]

at my old job all work we did was based on already paid for work from clients that want some new feature. It was technically a singular product but in reality it was more like some cursed amalgamation of custom implementations for each client

with a lovely 2200 settings to configure which features you wanted

[rotund violet]

That's pretty normal in the consulting world.

[cinder karma]

That isn't good either

[safe dragon]

I mainly mean there's no strict end date set for anything

[sonic mirage]

We deal with old codebases that clients bring in on a regular basis, so there's a lot of time just in investigating how they even work in the first place. If you don't like tracing things down then you wouldn't like this part of the job

[safe dragon]

ah one of those jobs

[sonic mirage]

Keeps things interesting for me, though

[safe dragon]

maybe someday I'll take a job like that

[sonic mirage]

Having to actually work in these old codebases though can be a mixed bag, for sure, though. Take Drupal, for example. Complete dumpster fire.

[safe dragon]

instead our own legacy code we can deal with someone else's

good luck when blazor apps start showing up

[sonic mirage]

Most of the legacy stuff we work on is stuff we wrote forever ago and have just had the client so long it's now ancient

Yeah our team already swore off Blazor

[rotund violet]

Drupal! I haven't heard that name in forever.

That was a really hot property for like... two years.

[safe dragon]

I know nothing about drupal other than that people do not like it

[sonic mirage]

it's like WordPress, but (somehow) worse.

[cinder karma]

What the hell is drupal

[cinder karma]

Clearly you should hire mod authors lol

I kid, I kid

But seriously, there is something janked as hell in the interview process

[sonic mirage]

With Drupal everything is a magic method and if you don't already know the black magic of Drupal then there is zero documentation to learn it. The community appears to be literally built in such a way that if you need anything custom you have to hire Drupal experts to get it to work

[safe dragon]

ah my favorite

[sonic mirage]

It's all hooks and undocumented conventions and a billion config files

[safe dragon]

gotta love tools that require hiring an expert to use

we have a few of those

[sonic mirage]

They would probably do reasonably well since we use a decent amount of C# and do reverse engineering regularly lol

[safe dragon]

a person in my team was hired pretty much entirely to be an expert on a product that has basically zero (useful) documentation

issue is that the product keeps changing with yearly releases so the expert is starting to have no idea anymore either

[sonic mirage]

Yeah it seems like some software products do that so you can pay them for "support"

[safe dragon]

and it works

[rotund violet]

coughoraclecough

[safe dragon]

I fear the day our oracle database engineer retires and I have to fight not to get that responsibility shoved on me

I'd probably spend the next year trying to phase out that database

[rotund violet]

With Oracle DB there's at least some info out there, but just try dealing with any of Oracle's other products, especially the industry-specific consultantware.

[safe dragon]

ok true

the docs are acceptable

I've certainly experienced worse

though this database is a disaster regardless

[rotund violet]

(Not that I wouldn't pick SQL server or even postgres over Oracle DB 10 times out of 10, given the choice)

[sinful ruin]

hiii, question

How(if i can) do I download mods on steamdeck?

specifically for sdv obv

[fleet wren]

!gs

[indigo mist]

If you would like a guide to setting up mods for Stardew Valley, check out the getting started guide! https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Modding:Player_Guide

To use this command, type !gs.

[fleet wren]

also on topic, which is off topic for the off topic channel

[sinful ruin]

.-.

what-

[cyan shadow]

to clarify, this is a channel for the programmers of the server to just gather and talk about coding, you want the modding channels for modding questions! #modded-stardew is the place for talking about using mods, #1272025932932055121 is for when something breaks

[sinful ruin]

oh sorry!! i didnt know :P

[cyan shadow]

no worries!

[manic parrot]

how is everyone I am doing oh okay I just can’t sleep my time is 4:56 am I live in the USA

[pliant snow]

Is it just me or is github website very laggy today

[leaden marsh]

Not having any issues personally

[rotund violet]

Same

[pliant snow]

huh. Everytime I've tried to view a github issue today it's lagged out

[rotund violet]

Been using it fairly constantly for the last hour or so, seems to be just your connection.

(or at least highly localized)

[pliant snow]

hmm

[slow pulsar]

Is it better to use to newest version of .NET for C# programs or are there reasons to use previous versions?

[safe dragon]

barring situations where you're stuck on an old release for compatibility reasons (mods, windows 7 support idk) there's really no reason not to at least use the most recent LTS release

and if it's not for a professional setting I'd just use the newest stable version whenever possible

[slow pulsar]

Sounds good to me!

[pliant snow]

god idk, github is actually really weird today

[safe dragon]

idk man it has had no issues for me

[pliant snow]

Oh, I think it may have been a bug in a plugin

[timid roost]

Anyone have an opinion on starforge pre-builts? I've been looking at the navigator pro and wanted to know if yall got thoughts on it before I buy lol

[safe dragon]

my only knowledge of starforge is that they had a frieren themed pc at one point

oh I guess they specialized in themed builds

don't know much about them but it feels a little off to me that the system specs are not clearly displayed

at least I can't find them

oh wait they just have a really strange scrolling effect I was stuck in

this seems very expensive for the specs

[timid roost]

Byeah but also I'm really not knowledgeable with PCs

[safe dragon]

okay the 4070 super is apparently way more expensive than I thought?

my lord

well with these prices it seems more reasonable...

[timid roost]

Yeah?

[scenic elbow]

Bummed been applying for jobs

And one I thought I had in the bag I didn't lol

[safe dragon]

just fought with regex for like 30 minutes before being smart and just throwing it in a regex tester to figure out what on earth was going on

[pliant snow]

When regex101 goes down, you might as well go home for the day

[crystal wren]

I've just come off of that site. Timing!

[safe dragon]

I still have it open

I'm already home tho so we good

this was some regex for personal stuff

[crystal wren]

This was some regex for holy hell we've had too many Steam gift card scams lately.

[cinder karma]

What

[red crest]

and not enough Mac charger scams? /j

[crystal wren]

Don't give them ideas!

[ivory shadow]

On one hand, I find regex very easy. That's it. There's no other hand. I am just well versed at regex.

1. Why is that file 500mb
2. What even is a .alp file
3. Why is that here specifically

[pliant snow]

Is this a steam giftcard scam ive heard so much about

You can upload 500 MB files to discord?

[ivory shadow]

WIth NItro, you can.

[red crest]

ableton live pack.... ?

[hidden nest]

Don't trust, yeet

[red crest]

unsolicited files have like, a 20mb maximum in my mind

[cinder karma]

What just happenrd

[red crest]

you missed out on some sweet free ableton live stuff or something

[ivory shadow]

Someone uploaded a 500mb... audio creation sound pack, maybe? With the comment "Supermarket"

And no other context

[hidden nest]

Googling tells me .alp is a AnyLogic model file

Oh well, it's gone now

[ivory shadow]

If someone is going to upload a random 500mb file could it at least be something funny please

[hidden nest]

-# the entire bee movie

[ivory shadow]

-# but every time someone says bee it plays the entire shrek movie

[hidden nest]

[pliant snow]

I used to have a gif that was the entire terminator 2 movie

[ivory shadow]

I have a webp of the "entire" bee movie. It's only 735 frames though.

[crystal wren]

Looks like it was that!

[red crest]

you downloaded it?!

[crystal wren]

I investigated safely!

[ivory shadow]

I can't believe DH is in here pirating Ableton live stuff. /s

[red crest]

"investigated safely" [right in the downloads folder]

[crystal wren]

I'm just very confused as to... how or why someone thought "oh, I'll just drop this here!"

From WSL, which is at least something.

[pliant snow]

#programmers-off-topic is now my temp data storage

[marble jewel]

#programmers-off-topic is also @cinder karma personal clipboard

[crystal wren]

Only #lost-rustaceans can use it as a clipboard, though.

[cinder karma]

What did I do

[rain apex]

Shiny rock pigeon

[crystal wren]

@tribal tinsel, shiny birb!

[sonic mirage]

I keep seeing this channel with its name highlighted, indicating new messages, and 9 out of 10 times the last few days there's been nothing new. Are spammers just being continuously nuked from here?

[crystal wren]

Yeah, there's been a weird amount of compromised accounts lately.

[sonic mirage]

Thank you for reminding me to add 2FA to my Discord. Should've done that awhile ago

Also good to know Discord wasn't being weird about unread messages in here or something

[crystal wren]

Unfortunately wouldn't even help in a lot of the cases that lead to these spam campaigns! Usually just people falling for token grabbers, sadly.

[sonic mirage]

Oh like a session hijack? Would clearing your discord cookies from you browser prevent that? Not sure if you can get the token from the desktop app or not (even though it's just a webview)

[crystal wren]

I think changing your password is the best way to refresh your session token for Discord?

[sonic mirage]

Once you're compromised, probably, yeah. I'm talking more preventative, if one were so inclined.

I guess the desktop app probably has your session token somewhere, too, though

[lethal walrus]

Yeah it stores it in the electron cookie file

And in memory, so if you can inject js while its running just extract it like that
You can also install yourself how client mods do and then just run js from electron

And there's another

(Deleted message, crypto presale blah blah)

[sonic mirage]

"crypto presale" seems like an oxymoron

It's in the permanent ledger, but also not yet

[crystal wren]

One trick they'll use is a really freaking sneaky one. They'll pretend to have your session token by showing you the start of it, and show you how to go find out.

Then you find it, and sure enough, they do in fact have the start of it.

...which is just your Discord user ID (which is public knowledge) converted to base64.

[sonic mirage]

It sure would be neat if Discord would switch that up to prevent that kind of attack

That's def sneaky though

[crystal wren]

And we just had 18 more gift card spam links posted.

But the regex got it.

[lethal walrus]

Steam?

[crystal wren]

Yup!

[lethal walrus]

Or something interesting

Why can't they be creative

[crystal wren]

Given the amount we're getting, it's obviously working, so I guess... sheer numbers?

[lethal walrus]

I guess

[rain apex]

Steem commmunty $5 dollaur

[crystal wren]

We've had stemm, stearm, steem, stenm, stemn, stems...

[frosty echo]

But always fifty dollars?

[lethal walrus]

Yes, why would anyone want a $10 gift card- it's not worth the time

[crystal wren]

Actually... pretty consistently, yeah. 50$, though, not $50.

[ivory shadow]

I'm glad I don't mod for a large Discord server it sounds exhausting.

[safe dragon]

give me all ur session tokens

[crystal wren]

I'm actually shocked that we barely see any crypto variants of this!

[safe dragon]

not even the scammers want to touch crypto anymore

[regal ingot]

nah, now scammers just launch their own meme coin

[safe dragon]

it's incredible how there's actual people out there still getting scammed through crypto rug pull

at this point I swear it must just be a group of people trying to be on the winning end of each rug pull like a competition with no one else participating

[sonic mirage]

"It'll be different this time; I'll get out just before the pull this time. For sure. (Probably.)" - definition of 'crazy'

[rain apex]

What about the ppl still holding gamestop stonks r they live

[worn remnant]

i am reminded once again that many scams are nigerian-prince-level obvious on purpose, because the hit rate only has to be nonzero to be worthwhile, and making it transparent weeds out people with enough sense to catch on

[sonic mirage]

The litany of spelling mistakes always get me

[marble jewel]

https://youtu.be/ce8PXbkCEgw?si=_sqFiru4Zl3mAZu_

[fleet wren]

I cant fucking believe Kabosu, through no fault of her own, is irreversibly associated with shitcoins in the general public

[safe dragon]

[safe dragon]

incredible

[latent bough]

Lol

[safe dragon]

after neofetch was archived we needed this

[latent bough]

for real

[safe dragon]

very good

why am I on an older version

I don't have a kernel update

[latent bough]

🤔

[latent bough]

ummm are you using base arch or some arch based distro

[safe dragon]

regular ol arch

[latent bough]

hmm...

[safe dragon]

I know sdl3 came out but hrm

[latent bough]

erm

could be a mirror thing

are you using pacman raw or some aur helper?

[safe dragon]

pacman

[latent bough]

That could be related?

I have yay for AUR

[safe dragon]

oh, sdl2-compat runs sdl2 programs using sdl3

[latent bough]

so to fully update everything without interacting I do yay -Syu --noconfirm

[safe dragon]

package was uploaded literally like 4 hours ago

[latent bough]

upgrades all aur packages and base packages

[latent bough]

hm neat

[safe dragon]

I also have yay

the boring option

[latent bough]

Lol it's nicer than paru IMO

[safe dragon]

I don't have this futuristic 6.13 kernel tho

[latent bough]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[safe dragon]

or I have it installed and am not using it

[pliant snow]

Yeah, sdl2-compat is the new hotness

[latent bough]

could just need a reboot

perhaps

for the kernal numbers to update in nofetch or whatever

[safe dragon]

I just booted up my pc

[latent bough]

weirdddd

[pliant snow]

https://archlinux.org/packages/core-testing/x86_64/linux/

linux 6.13 is only in testing

[safe dragon]

oh

[pliant snow]

You must be using the testing repo

[latent bough]

ah yeah I enabled that

[pliant snow]

very brave

[safe dragon]

yeah I don't touch testing

[latent bough]

i've had zero issues with it ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[pliant snow]

I'm actually back to using the real Discord client, which is kinda weird

[safe dragon]

I tried a few alternative clients but always had issues

screensharing seems to actually work these days so that's nice

a whole fancy custom window and everything

[pliant snow]

That's why I switched back

and with the Or share a device I can now just feed it my capture card and it works happily

apparently it's not hardware accelerated tho

[safe dragon]

it took discord 200 years but we finally have audio screensharing on linux

[pliant snow]

Never thought I'd see the day

[safe dragon]

me neither

seeing an actually functioning screenshare with audio and even just a nice user experience

people always claimed that screenshare had been working in the browser version for ages but it never has for me

[sonic mirage]

TIL there are alternative Discord clients

[pliant snow]

Yeah, ive used a few of them

[safe dragon]

there's a quite a few but whether their usage is actually allowed is questionable

[ivory shadow]

It's not questionable it's explicitly against the ToS, last I knew.

[marble jewel]

I've read that you can get banned if it's detected, but I can't actually confirm if that's happened to anyone I know

[pliant snow]

Breaking the ToS is half the reason to use them

[lethal walrus]

Usually you only get banned when you do something very weird/spammy

You're probably not going to be banned for responsibly using an entirely alternative client, and even less likely for something that injects Into the normal client

[marble jewel]

I'm curious now if there's anything out there that removes annoyances using the web client and user scripts

[lethal walrus]

You can just inject them into the desktop app

Almost all are desktop first

[digital lintel]

It’s against the TOS, but it wasn’t actively enforced as of a few years ago

As long as you aren’t spamming or botting you were fine, they may have changed the rules though

[lethal walrus]

Still works the same now.

So much that the popular client mods have 5 digits of members in their discord and they don't care

[supple ether]

I use a custom skin but that's it.

Most of the scripts didn't seem super useful last I checked

[pliant snow]

Yeah, I took a look at the scripts, but the themes and audio screensharing on linux were the only reasons i was using it. Now that the native has it, Im fine without the themes

[safe dragon]

discord has themes too 🙏

just have to pay real money 🙏

[pliant snow]

[supple ether]

yeah but no transparent themes. I put a cool aero glass effect on my discord, which wouldn't work without mods

[safe dragon]

I can in theory just tell my compositor to make the discord window slightly transparent

well, I could on hyprland which I do still have installed

[supple ether]

hyprland does look cool

[safe dragon]

I do like hyprland

the guy who makes it, not so much

[pliant snow]

I tried hyprland for a while but gave up lol

[marble jewel]

I'm super averse to hotkey-driven navigation (which is why I created a whole mod to avoid them). I also bought a StreamDeck so that I can have physical buttons to handle certain hotkeys.

Other than the ones I have muscle memory for (CTRL+A, CTRL+C, CTRL+V, CTRL+Z) I hate having to learn or memorize new ones.

[pliant snow]

Why do you dislike hotkeys

[marble jewel]

I just dislike having to remember what combinations do what in different contexts

Other than the standard set which are pretty much universal

Oh and ALT+TAB and CTRL+F are also in my list. I'm sure if I thought enough about it, I could list out every hotkey I do remember and it wouldn't be that long of a list.

[crystal wren]

I had Rider's hotkey promoter plugin installed and enabled. Once it reached "you've used X thing literally hundreds of times when you could have used a shortcut", I just disabled it.

[sand frost]

I love using the keyboard

Maybe because I’m a touchpad laptop person like 95% of the time

Atra thinks I’m a heathen for doing CAD with arrow keys

[marble jewel]

I'm not totally opposed to gestures, sometimes they feel more tactile when they match the action

https://tenor.com/view/community-dean-vr-i-cant-do-anything-funny-gif-12608557

Waiting for the day

[safe dragon]

on one hand I love hotkeys

on the other hand I still click the start button in visual studio instead of just pressing f5

[marble jewel]

I've got this big button programmed to hit F5 (only kidding)

The other button is sudo rm -rf /*

[sonic mirage]

While you're at it, just map Ctrl + S to delete the current file

[latent bough]

I've just been using the web client on linux tbh

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/double-keyboard-ncis-gif-14884655

[latent bough]

enhance

[safe dragon]

honestly I like that the html here looks intentionally terrible

it's not even valid html

I feel like someone had fun with that

[safe dragon]

NCIS however is inexcusable

[ivory shadow]

I regret to inform you that that is valid HTML.

Not HTML 5 doesn't mean it's invalid HTML.

[safe dragon]

I mean ok it's hard to write something that is truly invalid

even though this table has two tbody elements

[ivory shadow]

It's not that. It's a nested table lol

[safe dragon]

oh wait there's another table being started

the true crime is the formatting

[ivory shadow]

The true crime is everything it's like calculated to be awful

lol

But my favorite part is definitely the implication that HTML has a function and isn't just a markup language

[latent bough]

I don't excuse them personally speaking

[latent bough]

Yeah 😭

[austere pollen]

Everything is possible in 17 lines of code

[worn remnant]

thinking once again about wormhole x-treme (stargate episode intentionally lampooning its own premise)

[safe dragon]

a cruel world... I thought I had found the perfect solution for a design problem I ran into when dealing with the oracle database but then after I get excited I realize the feature isn't in our current database version

the documentation almost mocks me listing all the problems with the old solutions that I now have to deal with

who knew oracle was still releasing features I'd want in 2023

[pliant snow]

right here officer, we have reason to believe he's been compromised

[safe dragon]

compromised by the oracle marketing department

[pliant snow]

like being infected by an alien presence

[safe dragon]

I'd rather have it be an alien than the oracle marketing department

[sonic mirage]

Ah, yes, Oracle, the owners of the JavaScript trademark.

[safe dragon]

the only thing they're known for

perhaps also a CEO who is a big fan of mass surveillance solutions

nothing else however

[rotund violet]

I feel ya. That was me in like, 2008 or so, when SQL Server was just starting to add features like table-valued params.

It doesn't surprise me that Oracle is still adding features that developers and DBAs want. It would surprise me if those same features had not already been added to SQL Server, Postgres and mysql 10 years ago.

[scenic elbow]

Just reached 100 applications this month.

Gotta figure out a study schedule

[severe vault]

So, I have a weird, very basic question for you programmers in here that's been bugging me since I tried to learn Python and failed miserably back when and it's now coming back up as I'm sitting through the basics of C#. I know the difference between float and double, but given the range of a double is so much larger, why would you ever use a float over a double?

[pliant snow]

Simply to save memory space. Floats are (typically) 4 bytes in size while doubles are 8 bytes. That might not sound like much of a difference, but it quickly adds up if you have a lot of them, and for a lot of applications you really don't need that much precision

[rotund violet]

Lots of low-level code even uses halfs.

It's especially useful for data that's going to be used by a GPU, and therefore sit in VRAM, which is much smaller than main memory. Cost of VRAM itself and also cost of bandwidth to move it back and forth. Graphics or other code that runs on GPUs (LLMs and other ML) tends to want to use the smallest floating-point precision available because more things (nodes, tris, vertices, weights) are more important than more precision per thing.

[cinder karma]

(that said, outside of fancy gpu land, I tend to prefer doubles-as-default)

[rotund violet]

Well, there's also SIMD, where I believe you're still much better off with single precision.

Not half, of course, since no modern consumer CPUs even have half-precision instructions.

[rain apex]

what is your role in this project?

[rotund violet]

I can't speak for everyone, but I think you're unlikely to get a lot of takers with only an outline and no budget.

Game devs can sometimes pull in artists, writers, etc. if they already have a working game with interesting/unique mechanics; likewise, artists with a big existing pile of really sweet pixel or 3D art might get devs to join for free/pro-bono. But we really have to be able to see the potential firsthand, a rough idea/sketch isn't gonna do it. To get other people to join your passion project you have to (a) get very lucky and (b) have a significant amount of the work already done.

[safe dragon]

(also to add, In a lot of scenarios in C# where precision is absolutely crucial you’d actually want to use a decimal instead of a double)

especially if it’s financial software or something

[rain apex]

oh the visual novel recruiter person deleted

were they spammer or something

[safe dragon]

i missed whoever you’re talking about

[rain apex]

i forgor the details but they are like, developing a visual novel and recruiting every role needed for that

without mentioning wtf they were gonna handle

[safe dragon]

emotional guidance

[rotund violet]

Yeah I noticed the deletion too. Guess it was either spam or embarrassment.

They had posted an idea, and had an "outline". So basically, !modideas but for a new game.

[severe vault]

(I thought the point of doubles was that they were more precise (e.g. more decimal places) than floats? But maybe I missed something)

[cinder karma]

(Decimals are even more precjse)

[severe vault]

Oh, I see! I hadn't learnt about that type yet

... that's a confusing type name though ngl. Still, my complaints at that are best directed at the people who made the C# standard XD

[supple ether]

halfs, singles/floats, and doubles are all normal base-2 floating-point numbers, but decimals are base-10 floating-point, which gives them less range but better precision

[latent bough]

very realistic

[safe dragon]

I love half bits

[latent bough]

very realistic

[pliant snow]

I have more questions than answers

Option<bool> tho is basically this, and that's fun

[lethal walrus]

oo dreamberd

[sonic mirage]

So basically 👍 , 👎 , and 🤷

[pliant snow]

Is a bit-and-a-half code for two bits

[safe dragon]

you wouldn't understand

[latent bough]

do yk what dreamberd is?

if not, here you go: https://github.com/TodePond/DreamBerd

the readme is something special

[pliant snow]

the fuck

[safe dragon]

it's the perfect language

[worn remnant]

hey everybody INTERCAL is right there

[latent bough]

lmao that's what most people think when they see it

[pliant snow]

they learned how keywords worked and got excited

[rotund violet]

That's most esolangs to me. It was funny the first six times. Now it's just sad.

[safe dragon]

gotta let new programmers have their fun

[latent bough]

;-;

but silly

[pliant snow]

https://archlinux.org/news/glibc-241-corrupting-discord-installation/

That'll be fun

[safe dragon]

glibc would never cause any issues

smh

lies

[latent bough]

I guess this is a good reason for me to be using the web client (I am doing this rn)

[pliant snow]

it's funny how discord is called out explicitly as going to be broken lol

[safe dragon]

the rest also breaks but discord is notable

[pliant snow]

the system won't boot, but most people will notice the discord issue

[latent bough]

lmao

[cinder karma]

I swear this guy has to run all his emails through chatgpt

With the setting to appear as eloquent and verbose as possible

He has whole paragraphs to convey a sentence's worth of information

[safe dragon]

my favorite

[latent bough]

When I use AI for that kind of thing I tell it to use as simple words as it possibly can lol

[safe dragon]

I've admittedly been using chatbots a bit lately essentially as a kickoff point to find terms to then google

never used it for that purpose however

[latent bough]

I don't like writing emails

[marble jewel]

My emails are very concise and direct. So I use AI chatbots to make my emails more personable.

[ivory shadow]

People using AI to make things longer so other people can use AI to summarize them. What a beautiful time to be alive.

[latent bough]

pain

[marble jewel]

I just need a robot's help to make me sound more human

[safe dragon]

I don't remember the last time I sent an email

oh wait

I had to send one recently for work cause it was for the IT deparment and it's only turned into a support ticket if you mail it to them

I messaged them first and then afterwards sent an email

[pliant snow]

I have to send quite a few emails

even now I'm debating whether to send a single email or like 15 teams messages

[safe dragon]

email is definitely more commonly used at my new job than it was at my old one

at my old job practically all communication was done through slack

I didn't send a single email there for years

[pliant snow]

even in your personal life?

I guess I don't actually send that many, I just receive them

[safe dragon]

in my personal life I don't really send emails no

signal and whatsapp

whatsapp is generally even how you reach support these days for dutch companies

at least if you actually want a response before the heat death of the universe

they do always still have an email option that I'm not sure they even read

[rotund violet]

They probably don't read the whatsapp messages either, I'll bet it's a chatbot - and if not, it soon will be.

[safe dragon]

combination yeah

starts as chatbot

[rotund violet]

It'll turn out just as the old voicemail trees ultimately did, starting out as "clever/efficient way to find the right human" and leading to "bugs/deficiencies in the chatbot that prevent customers from getting to actual human are actually features since they lower costs".

The chatbots will become ever more friendly yet somehow less helpful, and continually expand their repertoire of excuses for not speaking to an agent and/or attempts to redirect you away from wanting to do that.

[pliant snow]

As an aside, I again am giving up attempting to understand how the fuck audio works

[safe dragon]

just as a whole?

[pliant snow]

for a game boy

but probably as a whole as well

but if I give up, then I actually have a shot in finishing these articles and I can be free....

[safe dragon]

you've been writing these articles for so many years

good luck

[pliant snow]

It's been about a year since I started, but I did take a like 8 month break in between

All the rough draft is done now, I'm working on making diagrams now, then I need to clean up my ramblings

It's a shame, I really wanted to have audio a part of it, but I can't figure it out well enough to make it run, let alone explain it to others

[pliant snow]

What a creepy message

[rotund violet]

"You're corrupt"

[marble jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/hal9000-hal-2001-a-space-odyssey-2001a-space-odyssey-gif-21408319

[cinder karma]

Seriously, just email "why is server x visible outside the company network (eom)"

[slow pulsar]

Hello everyone! So I just learned that RPG Maker (starting from MV and currently MZ), they use JavaScript for the game code. I'm curious about how JavaScript can be run locally since I only see it used in web dev

[marble jewel]

Javascript is just a language, and it's scripting engine can be implemented for various purposes outside of just web dev

Even like 20 years ago, there was another indie RPG maker type application called Sphere which used Javascript as its scripting language

[slow pulsar]

So IN THEORY, Stardew could be written in JavaScript?

[rain apex]

Discord is JavaScript running locally

[slow pulsar]

My mind is being blown as we speak

[rain apex]

Yeah if someone writes a C# mod that interprets javascript

Whether anyone will do this is a different question

[marble jewel]

I used to play around with this application. The developer used SpiderMonkey for scripting:
https://web.archive.org/web/20020208141227/http://www.aegisknight.org/sphere/

SpiderMonkey being Mozilla's Javascript implementation at the time

[slow pulsar]

I think my confusion stems from how a program is able to tell a computer: "Read the language I speak. Now make a window that runs my game"

[marble jewel]

First you have to understand the differences between languages that run in a VM, those that are interpreted, and those that are compiled.

All Javascript is essentially read by another program, and that program tells the computer what to do

Whereas compiled languages speak more closely in machine code that the computer understands.

Here's a free resource if you really want to learn more about it https://craftinginterpreters.com/

[supple ether]

Back in the day you could use rhino to run Javascript inside of java apps

I guess you still can since kubejs is a thing

There's probably a way to do js scripting with a c# engine, but I think nowadays lua and its derivatives tend to be more popular for application scripting for whatever reason

[rotund violet]

WASM is where it's at.

[ivory shadow]

Lua has been very easy to integrate into applications.

A lot easier than something like V8 I guess?

[dusty pollen]

what's the over/under on something going wrong if I update this rolling release linux distro after not touching it for like two years

[dusty pollen]

For a slightly more specific answer, javascript used to be implemented almost entirely through browsers for front-end web development. Everything changed, though, when the fire nation attacked node.js started becoming a thing, which is a javascript implementation/"runtime environment" geared towards being used outside of browsers, especially for back-end server use. It's the most common way you'd have javascript running on your computer, and is used for things like native electron apps like discord (like chu said).

node.js is good and also the scourge of my existence

[marble jewel]

Partially true except Mozilla Rhino has allowed applications to embed JavaScript for about a decade longer than node.js has existed.

Node.js certainly popularized using Javacript on the server and client, but applications embedding JS as a scripting language has been around for much longer and is more akin to the original example of RPG Maker using JS as It’s scripting language

[dusty pollen]

(that’s why I said “almost” entirely - certainly not invented by nodejs but definitely popularised)

I just don’t know the details of those parts 😅 my experience with javascript on a serious level is almost entirely through node.js

[worn remnant]

didn't the guy who made node also make deno and apologize for making node? /lh

[dusty pollen]

I was second guessing myself in the middle though about whether electron necessarily uses node.js (yes, yes it does)

[dusty pollen]

if he didn’t apologise, he should /lh

leftpad is 5% of my personality

[worn remnant]

i thought electron used V8, since like most browsers and browsers-in-trenchcoats it's just chrome

[dusty pollen]

(ik that’s npm not node.js, I just blame everyone equally)

it has node.js built in! I think it also uses V8 though

but yes, it’s chromium, which is basically chrome minus the branding

[dusty pollen]

looked it up: electron uses v8 because chromium and node.js both use v8 haha (probably should have remembered that tbh)

[worn remnant]

TIL node uses V8

[safe dragon]

it's easier to remember what doesn't use v8

bun, webkit, gecko(Firefox stuff)

and I suppose technically a bunch of half finished custom browser implementations

[sonic mirage]

so Webkit, then

[safe dragon]

that hurts

[sonic mirage]

https://ios404.com/

[safe dragon]

a classic page

[sonic mirage]

Safari is literally the new IE in terms of it being the hold-up to able to use fully-supported browser features these days. I'd read maybe a year ago or two that they had a new person that was "on the case" to whip the team into shape to get new features in, but it's been clear to me for awhile that it's a business strategy AKA on purpose so devs have to pay their way into and use their app ecosystem to get fully-functioning software on iOS devices. We've had to get B2B apps through their app pipeline and its a nightmare.

And if they're just extra slow on adding browser features that let you build fully-formed webapps then uh oh, guess you have to build a real app and pay us and go through our ecosystem shucks

[crystal wren]

It's missing one thing.

Ability to not use WebKit.

Zero question that it's a business tactic though, yeah.

[safe dragon]

there was some EU thing about that

[sonic mirage]

Their handling of the whole EU situation further crystalized that they're doing it on purpose

[crystal wren]

I genuinely thought when the EU was going to force them to switch to USB C that they might dump the USB port altogether and go 100% wireless.

[sonic mirage]

Maybe if they had Jobs still, since he'd do it out of spite

"Oh yeah? NO CORDS THEN!"

Luckily at work our Mac Mini has sat dormant for years now as we haven't had any client projects that needed us to use it. I do miss writing in Swift, a bit, though. XCode can eat one, for all I care, though.

I think Swift had some LSP options for other editors way back when I was still messing with it, so maybe one day it'll be usable in non-Apple situations

[ivory shadow]

Really wish the EU wasn't taking all the time in the universe to enforce their laws on Apple

[rain apex]

Can ppl use chrome on ios

[crystal wren]

They can, but it's just reskinned Googlified Safari.

[ivory shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-but-actually-no-meme-aardman-the-pirates-pirate-gif-26563702

All browsers on iOS are just Safari in a trench coat

[rain apex]

Wait like the features still don't work

Even if u r chrome or whatever

[crystal wren]

^

Have to use WebKit.

Absolutely zero choice.

[rain apex]

Terror

[ivory shadow]

Apple refuses to let competing browser engines on their platform

And the EU is taking forever to force them to

It has to be worldwide for it to be worth it for devs and Apple knows and is abusing that

[sonic mirage]

Unfortunately most users just care about their blue bubbles

[crystal wren]

Worldwide vs US is very interesting. I had no idea of the percentages in America until a couple of years back.

[safe dragon]

yeah they're gaining popularity in a few other countries these days but I doubt you'll find any other country that cares even slightly about the bubble thing

practically all countries have some standard third party messaging app everyone there uses to begin with

the "messages" app in my phone was used solely for receiving 2fa codes and absolutely nothing else. Nowadays not even that cause SMS 2fa died pretty much

[sonic mirage]

One day Apple might be dragged into proper RCS support by the EU, but I'm not holding my breath. I just want to be able to send and recieve non-potato quality media, that's all I ask

[safe dragon]

they already were I believe

though knowing apple they'll fuck it up intentionally in some way

make sure it's borderline unusable

[crystal wren]

"oh no oops, our app only supports decoding HEIC"

[sonic mirage]

I got a 5 second video clip from an iPhone user in December and there's like 3 pixels in it total

[safe dragon]

as it should be

how it should be interpreted: apple can't even properly send a message to an android phone
how it is interpreted in the US: stupid person has an android phone ruining everything

generalizing of course...

[crystal wren]

Well look what's available now...

https://frame.work/gb/en/products/deep-computing-risc-v-mainboard

[sonic mirage]

Yup just got that Framework email. It's mostly a board for hardware devs, but still nice to see

[safe dragon]

I'll be buying a framework laptop of my own within the next few months

not that one however

[crystal wren]

This one would be a weird choice.

[dusty pollen]

with a proprietary charger for “technological reasons” which they will have to disprove all over again or something

[sonic mirage]

I have set both of my parents up with a Framework and I've had to do zero tech support for them

[safe dragon]

cause they've never worked

[dusty pollen]

I wonder how much of that is India they have very different technology usage trends than the US

I’m a big believer in just finding tech from pre-2015 when it was still kind of maintainable

[crystal wren]

I did have a second hand ThinkPad before my current Framework, yeah.

[dusty pollen]

my laptop I was given for my bat mitzvah in 2012 had a socketed cpu

nowadays they don’t even have removable or upgradeable ram 💀

[sonic mirage]

I just put a new battery in my 2011 Macbook Pro. It's only used for taking notes in meetings

Full size ethernet port AND firewire

It's so old it has Magsafe before they got rid of it and brought it back lol

[dusty pollen]

also, cheaper laptops are genuinely better on this front - my laptops have both been bottom-of-the-non-chromebook-range $400ish dollars and while the 2012 one is long dead (chassis fell apart then I kept it in pieces in a plastic box for years so it no longer works ), the one from 2016 still works perfectly and can boot up faster than most modern laptops can on windows

[sonic mirage]

Most older laptops you can slap a 2.5" SSD into in place of the HDD and maybe add some RAM and you've got a usable machine again

So long as the battery isn't crap, that is

[cyan shadow]

most of it

the number of people using cheap android phones in India has skyrocketed lately

[crystal wren]

That is certainly a number.

[cyan shadow]

even farmers with a small house, a tractor and a cow to their names are likely to have some kind of smartphone by now