#programmers-off-topic | Stardew Valley | Page 32

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 6:53 AM

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Oh, I know what chu's talking about now. The lookup table is a highly optimized version, but division and string are... fine.

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It's micro-optimization at best.

ivory shadow Sep 17, 2024, 6:53 AM

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Yeah, the division is less of an issue than the iterator overhead

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I just find it funny that this code runs faster than the other code. ```cs
int[] NumberArray(int num) {
if (num == 0)
return new int[]{0};

var numSpan = num.ToString().AsSpan();
int len = numSpan.Length;
int[] digits = new int[len];

for(int i = 0; i < len; i++)
    digits[len - i - 1] = numSpan[i] - '0';

return digits;

}

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That subtraction is some JavaScript tier nonsense

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 6:57 AM

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You're sure that it's faster? Converting an integer to a string has to do pretty much all the same work, plus the work of allocating the string and looking up character equivalents (very trivial work, but hard to see how it could end up being less overall).

ivory shadow Sep 17, 2024, 6:58 AM

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Tested with numbers of every length. ```cs
static int TestValue = 1234567890;

[Benchmark]
public void BenchmarkDemo1() // Benchmark methods must be public.
{
int x = 0;
foreach(int val in Number(TestValue))
x += val;
}

[Benchmark]
public void BenchmarkDemo2() // Benchmark methods must be public.
{
int x = 0;
foreach(int val in NumberArray(TestValue))
x += val;
}

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At least it has way more memory allocation so it isn't just better in every way, lol

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If that shitpost was better in every way I would be very sad for C#

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:02 AM

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The implementation lives here: https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/blob/d2c458727ea78f8ff427d498842866a1f53ea5a1/src/libraries/System.Private.CoreLib/src/System/Number.Formatting.cs#L1680

There's a lot going on with caching, inlining, unsafe code, etc., so it's kind of noisy, but if you don't get one of the happy paths then you end up here: https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/blob/d2c458727ea78f8ff427d498842866a1f53ea5a1/src/libraries/System.Private.CoreLib/src/System/Number.Formatting.cs#L1657

Which is... a DivRem implementation, same as the first one chu/e posted.

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Profiling stuff like this can be a challenge because so much depends on the inputs chosen, the jitter, the GC, and all kinds of esoteric stuff I know exists but don't really understand that well like CPU caching.

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That said, if I had to try to design a benchmark for this then I'd probably start up a random seed, generate 100,000 random integers, and run each of the cycles several thousand times with each method. And then run the entire benchmark 5 or 10 times to make sure the results are consistent. Should at least come close to a repeatable answer.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:09 AM

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(Fun fact.)

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There is no division here

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Sure, you see two. But the compiler will easily make that multiply and shift

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:10 AM

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It will do that with the lookup version too of course, since it's all division by constants.

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But yes, that is technically correct (the best kind of correct).

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Khloe is probably right that the enumerator overhead cancels out any gains from a lookup. That being said, the code isn't doing any of those things on every draw call, it's only doing them when the value actually changes. Which is a whole assload more efficient than Stardew's version which does that horrific Math.Pow implementation on every single frame. (Maybe the compiler knows how to optimize that, but I wouldn't trust it to)

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:14 AM

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I don't actually know the context lol

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:14 AM

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I am reasonably certain he was referring to this as context: https://github.com/focustense/StardewUI/blob/master/src/Widgets/TinyNumberLabel.cs

Which is the replacement for Utility.drawTinyDigits

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And I'll admit it's maybe a silly optimization given the context. Though it's not like it cost a lot to implement anyway.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:16 AM

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Yeah, if it's cached it's probably irrelevant

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:17 AM

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Have you looked at the implementation of drawTinyDigits though? It's... fun.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:18 AM

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ivory shadow That subtraction is some JavaScript tier nonsense

Hey, randomly deciding you need to use raw ascii for something is always fun

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https://www.reddit.com/r/PythonLearning/comments/1fhb511/why_it_prints_this_character_among_us/

From the PythonLearning community on Reddit: Why it prints this cha...

Explore this post and more from the PythonLearning community

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:18 AM

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rotund violet Have you looked at the implementation of `drawTinyDigits` though? It's... fun.

I have!

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:18 AM

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So I think my mental frame at the time (though it was 2 months ago) was something like: "well, I'm sure as hell not going to use that implementation, so I'll just go with the fastest one I know". It didn't really occur to me to compare, benchmark, worry about the exact speed vs. simplicity, etc.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:19 AM

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Eh, if it works it works

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Caching is by far more important.

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:19 AM

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It is, and SDV's isn't caching, it's doing that work on every draw.

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In the grand scheme of things, is it going to cause jank? Well, probably not, but all these little things add up.

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(and this is why a 10-year-old game still lags on a 1-year-old PC)

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All this talk about caching made me realize that I just added another invalidation bug yesterday. I really need to come up with an analyzer that verifies, "if you check some flag here, you need to clear it there".

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:47 AM

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None of y'all clicked on that reddit link 😦

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It's such a great bit of python

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:49 AM

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production ready

rain apex Sep 17, 2024, 1:02 PM

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Upon reflection the actual diff between what I did and what focustense did is that I was output digits in little endian order

primal shore Sep 17, 2024, 2:32 PM

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Coding boot camp recs?

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 5:45 PM

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spans are witchcraft

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they're starting to feel like some kind of performance hack

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throw in a span and even if it feels like it would never be faster it will somehow be like 3 times faster

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I just realized this is actually pretty topical for a recent conversation even though this was unrelated

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 5:50 PM

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rain apex Upon reflection the actual diff between what I did and what focustense did is th...

That's why the .NET reference implementation figures out the number of digits first to allocate the string, and appends them in reverse order (IIRC).

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 5:56 PM

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safe dragon spans are witchcraft

Spans are SDVpufferheart

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(So are mutable strings)

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 5:58 PM

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mutable strings?

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there's no mutable string type is there

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you could do that I suppose, once again through spans

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that feels like a code smell though unless you're really hyper optimizing

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 6:46 PM

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I am a little salty

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my work recently introduced a step to our pipeline where SonarQube analyzes our PRs and adds comments for things it believes we should fix

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one of those things is to switch away from LINQ methods to list/array specific methods

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this used to be good advice but as it turns out, from my testing anyway, the LINQ methods are(as of the .NET 9 previews) generally faster than the type specific methods

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they let Stephen Toub loose on them and now the linq methods use spans everywhere

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they did not let him loose on the type specific methods

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 6:54 PM

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One day we'll have a simd accelerated dictionary

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 6:55 PM

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I've wondered what FrozenDictionary does

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it's notably faster than normal ones

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hmm

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 6:56 PM

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Pretty insane

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 6:59 PM

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benchmarks could definitely be improved

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a lot of this is actually the cost of allocating a new list for the result

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:00 PM

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Hmm

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And how big is the value type

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:00 PM

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an int

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gonna do a test where the Where/FindAll methods actually return an empty list

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should minimize allocations on that front

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wonder what that does

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tbh the test is inherently flawed because FindAll always returns a List<T> which isn't optimal to begin with but I'm also sticking with that in the Linq version for fair comparison

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alright here's a version where the resulting list of the queries doesn't contain elements

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interestingly the FindAll has fewer allocations in this scenario

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but it's slower nonetheless

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FindAll with reference types seem to scale really poorly if there's a lot of results

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:11 PM

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Does findall always allocate

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:12 PM

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yes

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it initializes a new List<T> first thing

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:15 PM

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Ok

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Hmm

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The 32 bytes has to be the empty list then

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:16 PM

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.NET 9 vs .NET 8 for a list of 1000 elements where exactly 1 element matches

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Where got a serious glowup

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:18 PM

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When do we clone stephen

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:18 PM

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this is the benchmark code btw if you see anything that should be changed

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:19 PM

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cinder karma When do we clone stephen

hopefully soon

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:21 PM

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safe dragon there's no mutable string type is there

There used to be a little-known feature in the Windows Forms text renderer that could mutate string contents. I'm pretty sure it was removed.

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:23 PM

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safe dragon it's notably faster than normal ones

How notably?

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:23 PM

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don't remember. Might give that a quick test later

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I haven't looked into it very much

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:24 PM

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Faster than ImmutableDictionary?

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:24 PM

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I believe it should be

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I'll give it a test after I finish this one for Exists vs Any

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jesus

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Exists vs Any for .net 9 vs .net 8

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:27 PM

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That's awesome

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:28 PM

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in both cases the one that matches is right in the middle of a list of 1000 elements btw

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alright lemme try out the dictionary stuff

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:31 PM

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Ha, I didn't even know there was an Exists method, for the longest time I've been using FindIndex(...) >= 0

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:31 PM

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doubt there is much of a difference

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:31 PM

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I'm sure it's the same underneath, yes.

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Guess it's time to switch back to Any which I like better anyway. Though that's only for the newer projects... anything still stuck in .NET 6 is another story.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:32 PM

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yeah .NET 9 isn't even out yet

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the dictionaries

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:33 PM

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How on earth is the immutable dictionary the slowest? Is this for creating or for lookups?

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:33 PM

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lookups only

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:33 PM

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Isn't immutable the red black tree or something

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Weird like thar

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:35 PM

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Mind you, although a 50% improvement is nothing to sneeze at, it's not as dramatic as the 80-90% differences in some of the other cases.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:37 PM

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added ConcurrentDictionary even though this is very obviously not the intended usecase for it

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though FrozenDictionary is also thread safe

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cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:38 PM

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safe dragon lookups only

Can you also do tryget

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For a value not in the dictionaries

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:38 PM

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The tricky thing about ConcurrentDictionary is that it actually can slow down a bit during concurrent operations. But it's always been more or less equivalent to Dictionary in terms of lookups.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:38 PM

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And for one that is

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It should be about the same

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:39 PM

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The moral of the story is... don't use ImmutableDictionary ever, apparently.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:39 PM

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Yeah I think it's like

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A red black tree

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For some reason

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:39 PM

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I assume it has some niche usecase but yeah

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running TryGetValue now

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for non-existent key

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:40 PM

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Ah, it's got a ToBuilder method, that's why.

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So you can create an immutable dictionary, convert back to a builder, add one or several keys, and then make a new immutable dictionary relatively cheaply.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:41 PM

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the way functional programming intended

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:41 PM

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With regular/frozen dictionary you'd have to recreate and repopulate an entirely new dictionary.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:41 PM

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https://github.com/dotnet/runtime/issues/47812

GitHub

ImmutableDictionary has slowly been regressing and in version 5.0 ...

I am on the CPS team in Visual Studio and are benchmarking bottlenecks that affect solution load and a big contributor to the slowdown is Immutable collections. Instead of switching out the collect...

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:41 PM

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So yeah, if you've got a dictionary of a million elements and actually need immutability then it's still better, but only in that specific case.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:41 PM

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uh

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I feel like my test has to be flawed

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oh

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yeah ok gotta fix this

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I got this which makes no sense

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that's make TryGetValue faster than regular indexing

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:43 PM

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Not hugely surprised tbh

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:43 PM

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Indexing has to validate, right?

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:44 PM

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maybe it actually is faster hmm

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:44 PM

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Indexer properties generally do have overhead vs. regular methods.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:44 PM

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Read the bug report I linked

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:44 PM

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That's an old report though, it seems like it was already mostly obsolete in .NET 5?

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I think I actually remember reading it back in the day.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:44 PM

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Can you also do collectionsmarshall

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:45 PM

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what part of collectionsmarshal. I'm only familiar with it for turning lists into spans

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:45 PM

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https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.runtime.interopservices.collectionsmarshal.getvaluerefornullref?view=net-8.0#system-runtime-interopservices-collectionsmarshal-getvaluerefornullref-2(system-collections-generic-dictionary((-0-1))-0)

CollectionsMarshal.GetValueRefOrNullRef Method (System.Runtime.Inte...

Gets either a ref to a TValue in the Dictionary or a ref null if it does not exist in the dictionary.

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:47 PM

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That's an interesting API, almost works like Rust.

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(almost)

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:47 PM

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TryGetValue is jsut faster as far as I can tell. I thought I might've made a mistake by not actually using its output value but even when I do it doesn't change the result

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:48 PM

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I'm not surprised by that at all. It's the same reason why manipulation of large buffers (like image pixels) is always done with unsafe code; the range checking on every access gets expensive over millions of calls.

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TryGetValue almost certainly does a cheaper version of the range checking.

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(I know "range checking" isn't a perfect description of what's going on with a dictionary or other hash structure but it's close enough)

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Doing for (int i = 0; i < array.Length; i++) { Foo(array[i]); } is way, way slower than the pointer equivalent.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:50 PM

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rotund violet That's an interesting API, almost works like Rust.

It's not quite the same without the compiler yelling at me

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:51 PM

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Rust: "You want to mutate two elements of this map? Screw you!"

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:51 PM

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rotund violet Doing `for (int i = 0; i < array.Length; i++) { Foo(array[i]); }` is way, way sl...

How does that compare to making the array a Span first?

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:52 PM

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Oh, I have no idea, that knowledge long predates spans.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:52 PM

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It should be able to elide the bounds checking in that simple case

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:52 PM

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Probably Spans are very close since they're doing the same sort of thing underneath, providing direct memory access.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:52 PM

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Although I've been side eying stardew rain lately

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:53 PM

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running an adjusted variant now with the CollectionsMarshall included

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:53 PM

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(Don't think bounds checking explains the slow down though)

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:53 PM

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You mean doesn't explain it in the game or doesn't explain it in general?

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:54 PM

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hmmm...

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:54 PM

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That's... helpful.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:54 PM

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rotund violet You mean doesn't explain it in the game or doesn't explain it in general?

In the game.

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There is far more slowdown wrt to rain than just bounds checking can explain

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:55 PM

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let me try with something that is actually nullable

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 7:55 PM

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Oh, well yeah, I think the difference between index accessors vs. unsafe/span access is very low on the list of Stardew's performance concerns.

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Some of what's in there is just wack. Maybe contractor code, or maybe early-development "just hacking away and will totally clean/optimize this later" code, who knows.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 7:56 PM

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clearly I don't know how to use the collectionsmarshall

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 7:57 PM

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ref (string id, bool duplicate) val = ref CollectionsMarshal.GetValueRefOrAddDefault(mapping, name, out bool exists);

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It's not actually a nullable, just a possible null pointer iirc

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There is another function in Unsafe you're supposed to call over it

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Null reference

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Not actual pointer

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 8:00 PM

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alright let's try this again

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I've at least verified that it shouldn't crash

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had to make some changes so all the results are different but here you go

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call me out if this is just wrong lmao

supple ether Sep 17, 2024, 8:03 PM

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What's the difference between frozen and immutable that has such a performance impact

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 8:04 PM

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Not terribly shocking I guess; I imagine most of the gains for the Marshal version are not for lookups but for mutations.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 8:04 PM

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And in particular, only if the value is a value type

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 8:05 PM

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It's the use case for Immutable - it's meant to be built up iteratively, repeatedly made into X and then back into XBuilder and then into X again. Can't do that with the mutable types.

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But that imposes constraints on the data structure.

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(i.e. it has to be a tree, not a hash table)

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 8:06 PM

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safe dragon call me out if this is just wrong lmao

One thing I notice

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Get value ref or add default is slightly different behavior

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 8:07 PM

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for the dictionaries nothing has really meaningfully changed between .NET 8 and 9. 9 is very marginally faster

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but roughly the same for all of them

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 8:07 PM

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Frozen dictionary is pretty cool though

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Pun intended

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 8:08 PM

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my favorite new thing is SearchValues<string>

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 8:11 PM

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Definitely a useful feature if you're writing lexers or parsers. Kind of niche though, no?

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 8:11 PM

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very

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but it's neat

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:19 PM

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reading through the performance improvements blog from stephen toub and I find this one pretty amusing

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some scenario where what was a boxed nullable type comparison is now optimized to just a single null check

pliant snow Sep 17, 2024, 10:23 PM

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... doesn't 0.0006 ns require a like 5000 GHz processor

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:24 PM

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considering it compiles down to a singular line of machine code I'd take the actual number with a grain of salt

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measuring the performance of a singular null check line of machine code is probably not really feasible

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or stephen toub just has a 5000 GHz cpu

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 10:27 PM

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I see your "foreach loop and then switch over the possibilities" and raise you "python for loop and then elif tree over the possibilities"

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:38 PM

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wtf

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 10:40 PM

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Wait is the blog post out??????

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:40 PM

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this is for the scenario when one of the sequences is a list and the other is an array

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has been for 6 days yeah

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https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance-improvements-in-net-9/

.NET Blog

Stephen Toub - MSFT

Performance Improvements in .NET 9 - .NET Blog

Take an in-depth tour through hundreds of performance improvements in .NET 9.

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stephen's post that is

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my biggest takeaway is honestly that I can stop feeling guilty for using LINQ in hot code paths

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 10:44 PM

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safe dragon or stephen toub just has a 5000 GHz cpu

It could be hardware caching - maybe CPU is not even doing the work except on the first iteration of the benchmark because it knows the outcome can't change.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:44 PM

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I'm going with stephen having a magical cpu

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 10:45 PM

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Right. Quantum perhaps, just ran every benchmark input at the same time in a different universe.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 10:51 PM

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He did a SIMD didn't he

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:51 PM

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that he did

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especially if we pretend stephen personally implemented every optimization mentioned

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even though the entire list of AVX512 changes were made by a guy called Egor Bogatov

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 10:53 PM

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cinder karma I see your "foreach loop and then switch over the possibilities" and raise you "...

There are also crimes against tables

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My laptop is about to take flight

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:54 PM

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some powerful fans

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 10:54 PM

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I thought AVX512 had a reputation for slowing things down due to forced downclocking and such.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:54 PM

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I imagine it has its uses

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and I'd assume modern cpus are better at it

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idk what it is but seeing big performance optimizations just makes me happy

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even when it has nothing to do with me

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 10:57 PM

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I guess so. But Intel actually killed AVX512 on the newer processors and who knows when they'll bring it back.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:57 PM

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I'm not really interested in the AVX512 section tbh

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I don't even know if my cpu supports it

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it does not

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 10:58 PM

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I'm glad linq is seeing some love

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I love the idea of linq

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 10:59 PM

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I've been using LINQ extensively for years so seeing it get some very major performance improvements is nice

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 10:59 PM

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I really never found it slow in the first place unless it was being used for SQL/EF and generating awful queries. But it is indeed great to see it being optimized so much, so that the naysayers won't have any excuse to stay in the stone age.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:00 PM

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we've had many improvements in the past but this one feels different since it hits the really major linq methods you'll have littered around your entire codebase like FirstOrDefault, Where, Any etc

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the original LINQ implementation was very slow

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it has come a long way

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 11:01 PM

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Fwiw, in my experience it's not linq that is slow

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But more that it is easy to write slow code in linq

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:01 PM

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It's just very rare I've had to deal with code that is even CPU-bound to begin with. Only times I run into that are on mobile and embedded.

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 11:01 PM

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So easy to accidentally quadratic yourself

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I mean

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Do some crimes against tables

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:02 PM

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do more crimes

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 11:02 PM

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(In particular, write your pandas column lookup quadratic)

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There we go

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:02 PM

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tbh almost all issues I've had in the past were more with memory than cpu but the improvements to linq and really everything else also improve that drastically

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:03 PM

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Yes, memory I can understand more easily here because all the deferred execution can accidentally create leaks.

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Enumerable.Reverse - just say no. (Or maybe yes in .NET 9, who knows)

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:04 PM

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though our most performant critical application at work is really just limited by te data access layer with the database

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entity framework is partially to blame but also just a lot of really bad queries. Many of which impossible to fix because of fundamental design mistakes in the database tables

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:04 PM

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Yep, most slow code is slow because of I/O. Either because of the I/O itself or because the code chooses to wait for it when it doesn't have to.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:05 PM

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almost all our hot paths at work involve recursive db queries of some kind

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:05 PM

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Slow database queries are in that weird hybrid category of I/O and code. System-level issues, maybe solved by better queries or maybe can only be solved with a different database design.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:05 PM

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soon it will no longer be my problem

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4 weeks left at this company

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instead I will have to deal with an oracle database

rain apex Sep 17, 2024, 11:06 PM

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how come it takes 4 weeks to quit ur job

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:06 PM

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Eww... well I guess a change is a change.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:07 PM

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legal requirement in the netherlands that after you hand in your resignation you have to work for at least 1 more calendar month before stopping

#

same if you're fired, though then it can be more than 1 month depending on how long you worked there

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:08 PM

#

We might not have to here, but I've always given several weeks notice. Though typically I haven't left on negative terms.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:08 PM

#

4 weeks instead of 6 weeks for me because I have 2 weeks of time off I haven't used that I have to use

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:08 PM

#

It is incredibly difficult to find a replacement, and 2 weeks is hardly enough time to even get all the tribal knowledge on paper or disseminated to teammates.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:09 PM

#

I also won't really be leaving on negative terms

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:10 PM

#

I figured not, that was just my perspective on "why leave more than 2 weeks notice" - that the bare minimum notice period in US is kind of an f-you situation and while it's sometimes totally justified, it's not a nice thing to do for very niche or highly skilled positions.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:10 PM

#

at least I made sure to not leave behind any project I was the sole contact person for

cinder karma Sep 17, 2024, 11:10 PM

#

Enjoy oracle!

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:11 PM

#

thanks

#

my job position stated C# developer though

#

we'll see how much I actually deal with the database directly in practice

#

a lot I'm guessing

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:12 PM

#

If it is just an Oracle database and not an entire Oracle consulting farm then you might be OK.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:12 PM

#

it's just a database

#

a self hosted one

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:13 PM

#

That's definitely the best possible Oracle scenario, so good luck. Don't forget to heap on the strategic incompetence if they ask you to do any DB stuff.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:13 PM

#

of course

#

sorry I only know sql server

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:13 PM

#

"Oops, I just deleted the main transaction table and all backups. Ha ha! Aren't I a character. You probably shouldn't let me near the database ever again."

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:13 PM

#

what's oracle

#

Oops I accidentally added a new trigger to production that brought down the entire server

#

lemme just order by these unindexed fields

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:16 PM

#

I anonymize of course, but I really have done that type of thing. It's the most effective way of crystalizing one's job description. Refusing to do something always breeds ill will, but simply failing at it (while continuing to be very good at your actual responsibilities) is just a "learning experience".

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:18 PM

#

from what I've gathered, the team lead has been the database guy at this company for decades

#

so he'll probably end up doing most of the db work

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:19 PM

#

With any luck, he'll turn out to be good at it and not need outside help.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:19 PM

#

sure hope so

#

they do know I'm fairly experienced with sql server so I can't really feign incompetence

#

I'll find out I'm sure

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:21 PM

#

They know you have experience, but they don't know whether it's the good kind of experience.

#

I mean, unless you put a lot of DB accomplishments on your resume.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:21 PM

#

I barely mentioned it

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:23 PM

#

I don't advocate feigned incompetence - it's no substitute for the real thing. The sweet spot is a problem that makes everybody else work overtime for one night trying to fix it, but doesn't cause any severe or irrecoverable damage or financial loss.

#

i.e. just enough pain to want to keep you away from that area, but not enough to make people suspect malice or generalized rather than localized incompetence.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:24 PM

#

knowing me I won't be able to help myself and start doing database work just to speed up the process

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:26 PM

#

Haha, that's definitely one of those things that came to me with age, or maybe age-adjacent cynicism. I used to want to fix all the problems, eventually got used to the idea of staying in my lane.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:26 PM

#

I'll get there I'm sure

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:26 PM

#

Project takes 20 minutes to compile? No problem, I'll just go for a walk / another coffee / etc.

#

There's a fine line between being highly competent/loyal and being an enabler of bad corporate habits.

#

The one I'm sure we're all familiar with is the boss sitting on an issue for 2 weeks and then saying it's an emergency.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:28 PM

#

yeah I've had to learn that already

#

product owner realized he could get a lot of stuff done much quicker if he just asked me directly to look into it for a bit

#

had to put the brakes on that

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:29 PM

#

Yup, that's another big one, PMs and sales guys and other non-tech staff trying to bypass the triage and go straight to devs.

#

Early career I tried to please them all; mid career I made a lot of mistakes by being grumpy and resisting it; late career I hit the zen approach of cheerfully accepting all of it and then inexplicably forgetting to do it.

safe dragon Sep 17, 2024, 11:31 PM

#

definitely still in that early career part even though I'm supposedly a senior now

rotund violet Sep 17, 2024, 11:31 PM

#

"You are 8 months overdue for this training" - "Gee, it couldn't possibly have been that long, could it?"

#

"Don't worry, I'll get it done this week!"

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 2:24 AM

#

Interesting

leaden marsh Sep 18, 2024, 2:26 AM

#

lol it's almost like we're going back in time

#

(writing downward counting loops was faster on older compilers because comparison with 0 is faster than the check for branch-if-less-than)

#

I am probably recalling incorrectly, but I think the same also used to hold true on older JavaScript engines

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 2:31 AM

#

I think downward has always been easier in assembly

#

It is definitely in ARM where your previous sub would set the metadata register nicely

#

Status register

#

You know what I mean

#

Just interesting that the JIT can reverse loops noe

#

God thus blog post has so many bounds checks in it

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 2:50 AM

#

O.O

#

rotund violet Sep 18, 2024, 3:11 AM

#

That's Interlocked, right? I was just dealing with that issue last week. Although I think they still don't support Java-style atomic updates using callbacks.

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 3:18 AM

#

Huh, rust style string splits at last

#

SpanSplitEnumerator goooo

#

Thank you

#

Holy fuckkng shit

sand frost Sep 18, 2024, 3:44 AM

#

mind you, i have no ideas what a readonlyspanchar is other than that you like them

rotund violet Sep 18, 2024, 4:13 AM

#

It's a "string slice". Like all spans, it's a ranged view of some other data.

#

Essentially - a way to get a substring without making an actual copy of those chars.

ivory shadow Sep 18, 2024, 5:21 AM

#

(Quick someone convince them to port Stardew to .NET 9...)

thin estuary Sep 18, 2024, 7:18 AM

#

oh, it's the blog page that straight up crashes the web browser on iOS

hallow marsh Sep 18, 2024, 7:43 AM

#

Converting to 1.6 I started using enums more

#

using them as dictionary keys lol

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 8:10 AM

#

thin estuary oh, it's the blog page that straight up crashes the web browser on iOS

Microsoft is sending a message

pliant snow Sep 18, 2024, 10:08 AM

#

If (is_ios()) {
    crash()
}

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 10:18 AM

#

the first bit of code I write for any website

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 12:54 PM

#

ivory shadow (Quick someone convince them to port Stardew to .NET 9...)

(It'll never happen haha.)

#

But I'm pretty happy with net9

#

It's taken a lot of little annoyances I've had with the language and fixed them

#

Now if they would give me const fn lol

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 1:00 PM

#

guess you'll forever have something to wish for

pliant snow Sep 18, 2024, 1:09 PM

#

wouldn't want everyone to be completely happy

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 1:35 PM

#

I've always wondered just what makes AI produce code like this

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 1:37 PM

#

ah I use this regularly in production

#

o screenshot that had my name on there

#

#

copilot once tried to generate this for me

#

would've been one fucked up email

pliant snow Sep 18, 2024, 1:44 PM

#

cinder karma I've always wondered just what makes AI produce code like this

its been reading my code 😔

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 4:33 PM

#

.....maybe I should make code not quadratic

#

Problem - it will take me a few hours to do that

rain apex Sep 18, 2024, 4:33 PM

#

it can always become worse ✨

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 4:33 PM

#

is that an option

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 4:33 PM

#

I just need one successful run lol

rain apex Sep 18, 2024, 4:33 PM

#

by quadratic u mean its O(n^2) time complexity right

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 4:33 PM

#

is this one of your scenarios where it's quadratic complexity but like 8 elements

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 4:34 PM

#

(Yes, it is quadratic due to table crimesl

#

No, n=600

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 4:34 PM

#

okay then a better time complexity would usually be worth it

worn remnant Sep 18, 2024, 4:34 PM

#

yeah but if you only need it to run once then whatever

sand frost Sep 18, 2024, 4:34 PM

#

Make it cubic instead 😛

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 4:34 PM

#

unless this is one of your scenarios where the contant time per 1 is like 15 minutes

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 4:35 PM

#

Yeah, excspr it would take like three hours for me to unspaget the code

#

And then all I need is one successful run anyways

#

Each run is 5 min, I just hope the next is the winner

#

I've gotten coffee three times already

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 4:44 PM

#

#

oh stephen has written a book about this

#

hc_pensive

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 9:11 PM

#

Do I have nom in python or am I writing a bullshit regex

safe dragon Sep 18, 2024, 9:29 PM

#

surely python has tons of parser combinator libraries

#

not nom though

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 9:30 PM

#

Bullshit regex it is

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 9:56 PM

#

"Does python have an immutable static dictionary" I ask like a loon

pliant snow Sep 18, 2024, 10:09 PM

#

Python doesnt have constants let alone anything more

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 10:15 PM

#

Sock progress today: my code takes too to run

#

But every time I'm like "this run will succeed so no point in optimizing"

rain apex Sep 18, 2024, 10:20 PM

#

https://peps.python.org/pep-0416/

Python Enhancement Proposals (PEPs)

PEP 416 – Add a frozendict builtin type | peps.python.org

Add a new frozendict builtin type.

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 10:25 PM

#

Sad

cinder karma Sep 18, 2024, 11:02 PM

#

Ugh

#

Pandasssssss

sleek wolf Sep 19, 2024, 11:35 AM

#

Hey, maybe an unusual question
I dont know how the Stardew Valley developer team hires people, but if I were to want to be a part of it, what would be some of the qualifications I would need?

austere comet Sep 19, 2024, 11:41 AM

#

I don't believe they're looking to hire anyone at the moment, as for qualifications we don't know, I believe most/all people who are/have been working on the game have been reached out by CA himself.

#

Though this is more a question you might want to email contact@stardewvalley.net for.

sleek wolf Sep 19, 2024, 11:47 AM

#

austere comet I don't believe they're looking to hire anyone at the moment, as for qualificati...

Makes sense

sleek wolf Sep 19, 2024, 11:47 AM

#

austere comet Though this is more a question you might want to email `contact@stardewvalley.ne...

Thank you :)

thin estuary Sep 19, 2024, 12:34 PM

#

obviously you need to work your ass off for 5+ years, make and maintain a mod loader for the game for that amount of time and create the most popular and most important mods that are out there, and only then you'll get contacted /s

austere comet Sep 19, 2024, 12:39 PM

#

Time to develop NotSMAPI and then make NotSpaceCore for NotSMAPI so I get invited to work on the game /j

hallow marsh Sep 19, 2024, 12:41 PM

#

only to be offered 1/3 of the renumeration you get for the soulless commercial work you're currently doing but at least you'll be living the dream and not having to put post-it note scribbles on anymore grimy whiteboards /j

sand frost Sep 19, 2024, 3:32 PM

#

thin estuary obviously you need to work your ass off for 5+ years, make and maintain a mod lo...

don't forget also maintaining a whole bunch of abandoned mods

#

or being the 2nd most prolific mod author for stardew 😛

raw pelican Sep 19, 2024, 3:40 PM

#

who's the first? Casey?

austere comet Sep 19, 2024, 3:42 PM

#

I think the 2nd is Casey, cause you can’t get any more prolific than Content Patcher tbh

safe dragon Sep 19, 2024, 3:48 PM

#

suspiciously modding related

earnest cairn Sep 19, 2024, 3:52 PM

#

mew just rewrote the entire multiplayer backend + encoding stuff and they were hired :^)

sand frost Sep 19, 2024, 5:41 PM

#

1st is Aedenthorn

#

Though they may one day be surpassed

#

It probably will take a long time given their sheer prolificness

sand frost Sep 19, 2024, 5:41 PM

#

earnest cairn mew just rewrote the entire multiplayer backend + encoding stuff and they were h...

oh yeah, another suuuuper easy way 😛

rain apex Sep 19, 2024, 5:45 PM

#

i wonder if they are hire for haunted chocolatier blobcatgooglyblep

safe dragon Sep 19, 2024, 6:01 PM

#

the fact that I don't think I've ever heard of them probably tells me how out of the loop I am on sdv modding

raw pelican Sep 19, 2024, 6:01 PM

#

oh my word Aedenthorn has 630 mods, 275 for SDV.

safe dragon Sep 19, 2024, 6:02 PM

#

that's a few

pliant snow Sep 19, 2024, 6:02 PM

#

raw pelican who's the first? Casey?

me

candid pilot Sep 19, 2024, 9:12 PM

#

i’ve got everything figured out for a non O(n!) algorithm for fish probabilities. i think it can be represented as a piecewise based on the parity of n (len of list) atm

#

it’s not amazing? probably some quadratic complexity (O(n^2) related) but it took 10 seconds for an n of 50 which is unthinkable with brute force (O(n!))

#

i’ll write up smth for the math later :)

cinder karma Sep 19, 2024, 11:03 PM

#

Somehow I managed to pull my right arm out of it's socket

#

(It's a shallow socket. It happens. Still hurts )

pliant snow Sep 19, 2024, 11:05 PM

#

This is #programmers-off-topic gotta phrase it differently

"How to fix a bad socket with ARM?"

rotund violet Sep 19, 2024, 11:38 PM

#

I don't think all the 1.6 devs are prolific modders? At least, I don't recognize all their names, aside from the obvious two or three. I imagine they have some sort of connection to CA, though.

leaden marsh Sep 19, 2024, 11:44 PM

#

Other than Pathos, we don't list our screen names

#

But admittedly yes, I do not qualify as a prolific modder lol

rotund violet Sep 19, 2024, 11:46 PM

#

I guess that makes sense. Don't want every random user out there spotting your name on a mod and then seeking you out here as a dev.

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 1:44 AM

#

GRANGE is a registered trademark of National Grange of the Order of Patrons of Husbandry, used under license. All rights reserved.

Huh, I hadn’t noticed this before (Stardew website home page)

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 2:41 AM

#

Is this just a known thing?

pliant snow Sep 20, 2024, 2:46 AM

#

I was once writing a comment at the top of a file beginning with Author: and it suggest some random GitHub user's name, as it had scraped that pattern from one of their files

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 2:58 AM

#

Wasn’t there one time someone had it spit out something straight up directly copied from pathos’ mods when it was asked for a Stardew mod?

candid pilot Sep 20, 2024, 3:25 AM

#

was writing documentation for something once and it just gave me some random person's name

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 5:16 AM

#

sand frost Wasn’t there one time someone had it spit out something straight up directly cop...

Far more common that it spits out utter garbage that's not even close to resembling a functional mod. We've seen it at least twice in the past month or so. Ripping off Pathos would be a notable improvement.

raw pelican Sep 20, 2024, 5:18 AM

#

which makes sense, most stardew mods are novel material, not boilerplate.

#

which begs the question, if AI code is only good for established boilerplate code, why waste the power in generating it when you can copy paste it from elsewhere.

frosty echo Sep 20, 2024, 11:29 AM

#

Because lazy

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 2:14 PM

#

rotund violet Far more common that it spits out utter garbage that's not even close to resembl...

ugh, that too—I wrote up a whole rant on that at one point

#

!chatgptcode

indigo mistBOT Sep 20, 2024, 2:15 PM

#

Please stop trying to get ChatGPT to write your C# mods for you, especially if you don't know how to write C#. It won't work without heavy editing, and it wastes everyone's time.

Large language models fundamentally are reguritating something from their input—which is roughly speaking, the written output of humanity up until 2021 or so, for ChatGPT. For specific, niche topics like "is this framework going to do what I want" or "which things does Game1.cs have access to", it probably has no idea! But it's good at detecting that people in the past have....said things about frameworks and written things in C#, so it does its best to assemble words and symbols into a nice order for you. Sometimes it tells you true things, and sometimes it tells you false things, and if you can't detect when, you're in trouble. When you're writing code, this usually produces garbage, because you can't be "sort of similar", you have to be exactly correct or it won't work.

rain apex Sep 20, 2024, 2:25 PM

#

bolbsunglasses

#

the "mod" is load texture and vague attempt to set farmer texture bolb

#

minimum api version 3.0.0

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 2:27 PM

#

Those five lines of code are correct!

#

I assume it goes weird later

rain apex Sep 20, 2024, 2:28 PM

#

using StardewModdingAPI;
using StardewModdingAPI.Events;
using StardewValley;

namespace CrowTransformationMod
{
    public class ModEntry : Mod
    {
        public override void Entry(IModHelper helper)
        {
            // Hook into the game events
            helper.Events.GameLoop.DayStarted += OnDayStarted;
        }

        private void OnDayStarted(object sender, DayStartedEventArgs e)
        {
            // Replace the player's sprite with a crow sprite
            TurnPlayerIntoCrow();
        }

        private void TurnPlayerIntoCrow()
        {
            // Check if the player exists in the game
            if (Game1.player != null)
            {
                // Load the crow sprite from your mod's assets
                var crowTexture = Helper.Content.Load<Texture2D>("assets/crow.png", ContentSource.ModFolder);

                // Apply the crow texture to the player
                Game1.player.FarmerSprite.setTexture(crowTexture);
            }
        }
    }
}

#

it does make sense that chatgpt consumed enough open source mods to get the boilerplate correct

worn remnant Sep 20, 2024, 2:32 PM

#

ContentSource.ModFolder is sending me

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 2:40 PM

#

I've only once seen someone post chatgpt made code for a mod cause I think they posted it here.

I know nothing about sdv modding but even I could tell it was total nonsense

austere comet Sep 20, 2024, 2:41 PM

#

Helper.Content.Load sounds like it combined Game1.content.Load and Helper.GameContent/ModContent.Load

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 2:41 PM

#

Game1? is sdv using some default generated class name

rain apex Sep 20, 2024, 2:41 PM

#

yea

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 2:41 PM

#

nice

rain apex Sep 20, 2024, 2:42 PM

#

i respect that, i often feel unmotivated on project until i come up with good module names

austere comet Sep 20, 2024, 2:43 PM

#

Can’t wait for 1.7 where we get Game2 /j

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 2:49 PM

#

austere comet `Helper.Content.Load` sounds like it combined `Game1.content.Load` and `Helper.G...

Fun fact that is legacy not incorrect

tender heath Sep 20, 2024, 3:15 PM

#

Hello, im having some serious issues with steam. I've uninstalled it and reinstalled it. This is what it does. I'm on windows 10.

#

And it's only the steam app that does that

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 3:23 PM

#

might want to mess with the hardware acceleration setting assuming you can reach it

#

or update gpu drivers

#

if hardware acceleration is on

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 7:55 PM

#

sand frost !chatgptcode

Props for the clear, concise, and incisive explanation, though I fear that the people who need to hear it most will be incapable of even reading it in one sitting, let alone understanding it.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 8:11 PM

#

it’s ok

#

they’ll copy the text into chatgpt to generate a summary

fleet wren Sep 20, 2024, 8:14 PM

#

'don't, no work, even if look correct'

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 8:18 PM

#

just keep asking for a summary till chatgpt narrows it down to 1 line

#

at which point it has distilled down to “don’t mod”

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 8:50 PM

#

Can you ask it to summarize its summary? I wonder how many iterations that could go on for and what happens when it gives up.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 8:58 PM

#

I’m curious so I’ll test

#

obviously I don’t pay for gpt 4 so 3.5 will have to do

#

step 1:

If you're unfamiliar with C#, it's best not to rely on ChatGPT to write your mods. While it can be helpful for general guidance, large language models like ChatGPT pull from a broad range of past information (mostly pre-2021), and may not have precise knowledge about specific frameworks or coding details. This means it might generate code that looks correct but isn’t. When you're working with code, accuracy is crucial—being “close enough” won’t cut it. If you're unable to spot mistakes, this approach could lead to frustration and wasted time. Instead, focus on learning C# or seeking advice from experienced developers.

#

step 2:

If you're new to C#, avoid relying on ChatGPT for mod writing. It may give guidance, but its outdated knowledge can lead to incorrect code. Precision is key in coding, and if you can't spot errors, it could waste time. Focus on learning C# or ask experienced developers for help.

#

step 3:

If you're new to C#, avoid relying on ChatGPT for mod writing as it can lead to errors. Focus on learning C# or seek help from experienced developers instead.

#

we’re down to a pretty short message…

#

idk if this is really a step 4 I had to really really ask for this one

If new to C#, learn the basics or ask experienced developers instead of using ChatGPT.

#

lmao

#

If new to C#, learn or ask experienced developers.

#

chatgpt is no longer part of the message

#

#

it has been boiled down to its purest essence

#

Learn C#

fleet wren Sep 20, 2024, 9:11 PM

#

further

austere comet Sep 20, 2024, 9:14 PM

#

Just Learn /s

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:16 PM

#

#

#

it’s perfect

#

I like how it never at any point complained

austere comet Sep 20, 2024, 9:21 PM

#

austere comet Just `Learn` /s

See I predicted it SDVkrobusgiggle

rain apex Sep 20, 2024, 9:22 PM

#

crumble going on chatgpt 9000's hitlist

austere comet Sep 20, 2024, 9:22 PM

#

But what would chatgpt summarize . as

fleet wren Sep 20, 2024, 9:25 PM

#

rain apex crumble going on chatgpt 9000's hitlist

what it's gonna do, tell me "I'm sorry, but as a large language model I cannot engage in or encourage acts of violence against another human being. What other questions do you have?"

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:26 PM

#

manipulate someone else into violence

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:27 PM

#

austere comet But what would chatgpt summarize `.` as

just repeats .

fleet wren Sep 20, 2024, 9:33 PM

#

do it 999 times and it outputs the AM monologue

violet gale Sep 20, 2024, 9:36 PM

#

(oh i'll ping @hoary oasis here since i recall the 'you're making me rethink going to college: found out my cs professors are using chatgpt to create our assignments)
green is the pdf with the skeleton, black is chatgpt because it was throwing an error that literally nothing i googled could find
tldr; i'm no longer going to complete this degree, i'm finishing this semester and giving my uni the middle fingy

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 9:39 PM

#

Damn

#

I’m lucky to be at a place that really emphasizes quality of teaching

rain apex Sep 20, 2024, 9:39 PM

#

how many dollaroos r u pay for this yggy

violet gale Sep 20, 2024, 9:40 PM

#

me, technically, i'm living off of financial aid and my $1k sub student loan
but my 3 classes cost $3480 usd

hoary oasis Sep 20, 2024, 9:40 PM

#

My problem is that I kind of need the degree to get a job that would offer the level of physical exertion I'm capable of these days, combined with not having to interact with customers. I can be nice in text, I am not so capable over the phone

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:41 PM

#

safe dragon Learn C#

Well what do you know, ChatGPT is capable of real intelligence if you just ask it enough times.

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 9:41 PM

#

Like every time someone blindly assumes chatgpt stuff works, I’m shocked

#

Especially code: the obvious test is to just run it!

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:41 PM

#

in rare cases I do still see job postings that only request a “university level thinking level” instead of explicitly a degree but tbh as far as I can tell they still end up asking for that diploma

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 9:42 PM

#

sand frost Especially code: the obvious test is to just run it!

Lol

violet gale Sep 20, 2024, 9:42 PM

#

in my city you can get away with a portfolio, so usage may vary

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 9:42 PM

#

I get the sense that hiring profs in CS is sort of wonky because they often get poached, so the instructional quality can vary wildly

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:42 PM

#

I’ve never run my code ever in my life I know it is correct

hoary oasis Sep 20, 2024, 9:42 PM

#

Looks like it would work, ship it

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:42 PM

#

(Managers don't care about credentials, only HR does.)

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:43 PM

#

tbh I have at times pushed a bugfix without actually verifying that it worked

#

for extremely obvious clear cases

hoary oasis Sep 20, 2024, 9:43 PM

#

Fix it forward programming

#

If it's still broke, just fix it again

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:44 PM

#

“the tester will catch it”

#

“why should I test my code when that’s their job”

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:44 PM

#

That's not entirely a joke, you know. A lot of shops emphasize MTTR over MTBF, so to speak.

hoary oasis Sep 20, 2024, 9:44 PM

#

"So-and-so approved it, why didn't they say it was broken?"

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:45 PM

#

mttr… money transaction throughput rate

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:45 PM

#

Mean Time To Recovery (vs. Mean Time Before Failure)

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:45 PM

#

ah

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:45 PM

#

If a mistake is not going to cost you millions of dollars, and takes only 10 minutes for someone to correct, is it worth spending 10 hours to prevent it?

#

It's a legit question.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:46 PM

#

that’s some high stakes I am not yet mentally ready for

#

🙏

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:47 PM

#

Haha... well unfortunately, most businesses also have a terrible MTTR. But depending on the business (i.e. not quantitative finance) it can be more productive to invest in faster recovery than fewer errors.

violet gale Sep 20, 2024, 9:47 PM

#

(i'mma throw this in before i go back to letting my brain relax, but a lady went around getting surveys that people had to waive their rights for about how cs majors at my uni has the lowest graduation rate and this really just made me go, "wow you wonder why?")

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:48 PM

#

they haven’t figured out yet how to make gpt generate diplomas

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:48 PM

#

Lower graduation rates are a positive signal to those hiring, to the extent they care about it at all.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:48 PM

#

I’m a little glad I graduated university before the release of chatgpt

#

for my job out of uni they just asked if I had a degree

#

not much beyond that

#

I didn’t even actually have the diploma yet cause covid had just started which had completely shut down the graduation process

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:50 PM

#

Yeah, that's HR ticking the box. Everything's changed. Hiring managers usually don't bother digging into it because the degree is 99% useless.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:50 PM

#

for my soon to be current job I don’t think they even asked

#

knowing about what I did at my previous employer was a lot more interesting

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:51 PM

#

Even back when I was a recent grad (no points for guessing how long ago that was), we knew that the degree was only relevant for your very first job out of university.

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 9:51 PM

#

My first job was “grad student” 😛

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:51 PM

#

Though in a lot of cases, HR still insists on ticking the box.

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 9:52 PM

#

But yeah, CS in particular it’s not always clear to me the degree helps

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:52 PM

#

idk how I got my first dev job tbh. They asked what REST was in my technical interview and I had no idea. Writing apis was part of the job function. I guess I was cheap enough to gamble on with the lack of other options

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:53 PM

#

University used to be a place to either (a) network or (b) become a researcher. I think that was a good system. The "education-to-corporate pipeline" is... not ideal.

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 9:53 PM

#

I’m in engineering, where there are stricter rules around accreditation if you want to practice

#

I think that there is value in a CS degree in the sense that learning fundamentals should in theory make you better and more flexible, but the value there is partially just putting together a course of study, since there’s so much online these days

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:54 PM

#

Indeed. It's not that there's no useful information in a CS program, just that it's hardly the most efficient way to pick up those skills.

sand frost Sep 20, 2024, 9:54 PM

#

I also think some universities are more useful than others and it’s not very clear which to a bunch of 18 year olds trying to wade through them

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:55 PM

#

(And the credentialization of programming jobs is doing far more harm than good)

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:55 PM

#

the value in a cs degree is more the piece of paper than what you learnt there.
For me the biggest value of the CS degree was simply that it forced me through the very awkward beginning phase where doing anything useful feels really daunting

#

I’m guessing for some that access point is writing mods considering the server I’m in

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:56 PM

#

For me it was writing cheesy games on 8-bit hardware.

violet gale Sep 20, 2024, 9:56 PM

#

i think the problem with my uni is that the first two cs classes is only c++, i get that oop is important, c++ is core, but it's definitely one of those "lecture goes over one thing and the assignments are 9 steps ahead"

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:56 PM

#

Mods are probably a lower barrier to entry, but I'd still consider them somewhat more illuminating than a standardized CS degree.

#

I doubt very much that C++ is oriented around OOP, in fact it's probably wanting to de-emphasize that particular aspect.

rain apex Sep 20, 2024, 9:57 PM

#

i learned a fair bit from writing bad php for my friend's wordpress blog

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:57 PM

#

C++ was not part of my CS degree at all

#

neither was C

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 9:57 PM

#

sand frost I also think some universities are more useful than others and it’s not very cle...

(I mean, yes.)

rain apex Sep 20, 2024, 9:57 PM

#

i did not know php had classes long after i stopped maintaining those scripts

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:57 PM

#

Learning C++ requires you learn things that are not simply OOP in the dull Java style, like pointers.

#

Or templates. Or any of the other interesting C++ stuff that's not just classes and methods.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:58 PM

#

C# is where I started in uni and it’s still most of what I do though I enjoy dabbling in other languages in my free time

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 9:59 PM

#

(Though they should be using Rust instead. I'm required to point that out at every opportunity.)

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 9:59 PM

#

of course

#

everyone knows Rust is strictly better than C++ with no downsides

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 9:59 PM

#

Yes

#

Perfect

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:00 PM

#

god the amount of people who do genuinely believe this in the bevy server

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 10:00 PM

#

Rust can do no wrong

#

I will not listen

fleet wren Sep 20, 2024, 10:00 PM

#

did someone mention rust

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:00 PM

#

yes

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:01 PM

#

I sort of empathize because Bevy really is a very impressive framework. But I mean, so is OpenGL and you don't have the same sort of fanaticism.

#

(or maybe you do. I should ask the graphics guy.)

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:02 PM

#

Bevy is really cool which is why I follow its progress but its discord community at least is full of people who genuinely could not imagine anyone preferring any language over rust for any usecase

#

maybe vulkan has some fanaticism but I doubt opengl has any

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:02 PM

#

In fairness, I get a similar vibe about Godot.

#

It's the Unity and Unreal guys who go "eh, it's just a tool".

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 10:03 PM

#

I'm going to go throw out all this verilog and write it in rust

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:03 PM

#

godot is in that phase rn with all the unity refugees justifying their choices

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 10:03 PM

#

.....I am being told things about what rust does not do

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:03 PM

#

idk what verilog is but I had to write prolog for uni and I remember being very confused

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:03 PM

#

DiD yOu KnOw RuSt HaS nO-sTd

#

100% perfect for embedded systems

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:05 PM

#

just need to interface with C for everything to do anything

#

tbh I don’t really know that I have never touched an embedded system in my life

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:06 PM

#

I was half-joking because an FPGA isn't really an "embedded system". But it's the type of thing you'd expect to hear.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:07 PM

#

verse is the future

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 10:08 PM

#

To be fair maybe a rusty variant of verilog would be nice

#

Like clash

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:09 PM

#

That's testing the limits of my engineering esotericism. Never heard of clash and have no mental image for Rustilog.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:09 PM

#

I looked up verilog and I saw the

if
begin
…
end
else
begin
..
end```

#

reminds me too much of T-SQL

#

I always forget the end and begin around the else

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:10 PM

#

Hey now. Programmers trying to avoid T-SQL have caused immeasurably more damage than T-SQL ever did.

#

If you need a script, you should just write a script.

fleet wren Sep 20, 2024, 10:11 PM

#

safe dragon reminds me too much of T-SQL

Or Pascal

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:11 PM

#

It is definitely more like Pascal. Were it like T-SQL there'd be a "commit" or "rollback" in there.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:11 PM

#

shoutout to the tsql sprocs we rewrote to a series of entity framework queries that ended up being ridiculously slow causing us to need to spend ages figuring out what to do

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:12 PM

#

I'm glad I don't really have to deal with trad databases anymore, but when I did, I pretty much always came back to "screw this ORM, I'm just writing SQL".

#

I could spend the next 3 weeks trying to figure out how to make Hibernate do this or... 3 hours rewriting it with a couple of sprocs/functions.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:14 PM

#

tbh I might be faced with making a choice for database interface at the new job and I’m not 100% sure yet what to go with

#

personally I am also really just in the “write some sql” camp

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:15 PM

#

The ORM always looks sexy, from far away and after a few beers, but you'll hate yourself when you wake up the next morning.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:15 PM

#

after I spent ages once trying to make entity framework understand where to put a full text search query only for it to generate queries that would crash

#

wondering if I should just pretend I’m stupid and just use LIKE

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:18 PM

#

I never had a good experience with FTS in relational databases anyway... though my experience was many years ago. We generally preferred to separate the FTS into something actually designed for it, usually Lucene or something based on it like ES.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:18 PM

#

that’s also what we ended up doing here but there’s some old stuff that was never changed

#

might look into a dapper a bit while I have time off in between the jobs

#

the main other dev is a database guy I could probably convince him not using EF is a good idea

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:20 PM

#

The only Oracle guys I've worked with in the past didn't need any convincing at all for that sort of thing, they hated the very idea of an ORM or doing anything important outside the database.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:20 PM

#

yeah I don’t think it’s going to be difficult

#

but I’ll have to check first that I actually like dapper

#

I’ve used it once for like 1 query

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:21 PM

#

If it's the same Dapper I remember from like... 2014? Then it's been around for a very long time!

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:22 PM

#

oh yeah it’s far from new

#

dapper has always been what everyone tells you to use when you complain about EF (core) being slow

#

that’s where we’ve used it at the current workplace as well

#

replaced some EF stuff that was being slow

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:23 PM

#

It's just a result set mapper, isn't it?

#

Doesn't care about your schema.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:24 PM

#

it has some convenience built in and deals with stuff like connection pooling for you but the main use is just for taking the result of a query and mapping it yeah

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:24 PM

#

I'm sure there are other tools that do the same type of thing, but that is the general idea. Do the SQL in SQL and use some lightweight thing to handle the transition to Objects.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:26 PM

#

yeah at the bare minimum you can just use the bare ADO.NET the rest is built on top of

#

which I have done but it’s not very ergonomic

#

tbh I don’t see why I wouldn’t pick dapper but I should give it a shot first

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:30 PM

#

Back in those days, you could probably argue that one of the major strengths of ORMs was some measure of compile-time safety, i.e. you couldn't crash the system by way of some random typo in the query. But today, I'll bet there's a Roslyn analyzer for that.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:30 PM

#

for some of it yeah

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:31 PM

#

And if so, the ergonomics argument is becoming increasingly moot.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:31 PM

#

not quite the level of sqlx in rust though for which the macro version actually asks a configured database if it’s a valid query during compilation

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:32 PM

#

Well, we use the tools we've got.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:33 PM

#

also, anything the compile time safety could guarantee can also be guaranteed by making sure you have some unit tests set up which you should have regardless

#

hmm that might be a pain point for dapper

#

it doesn’t seem too easy to unit test

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:37 PM

#

I'm not sure how you'd unit test database queries anyway, unless it's really a small-scale integration test with a fake/in-memory copy of the database.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:39 PM

#

sqlx essentially runs your migrations and spins up temporary test versions of your database

#

which does get close to just being an integration test

#

not that I’m one to fuss too much about the difference as long as it tests what it needs to test

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 10:40 PM

#

Tbh I still don't know the difference between unit and integration test

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:40 PM

#

Yeah, if you can enforce that all changes to DB schema be done through migrations then that's fine. Don't see how Dapper would get in the way, though.

cinder karma Sep 20, 2024, 10:40 PM

#

One test is bigger

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:40 PM

#

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Unit test is for one essentially indivisible part of a system, integration test is for the whole system or larger combinations of components.

#

Integration tests are "bigger" but it's not their size that makes them integration tests, it's the kind of scenarios they cover.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:45 PM

#

alright most of what I can find for true “unit” tests for dapper come very very close to writing tests that test that your test is working

#

gotta love tests that mock basically the entire process it’s supposed to be testing

#

best to just keep those queries in their own methods isolated away and verify their functioning with regular integration testing you’d do for an api

rotund violet Sep 20, 2024, 10:48 PM

#

I don't really see what would be different about testing with Dapper vs. any other DB testing. Either way, presumably you are going to spin up some kind of fake database and run a real query against it. So either you test the result without Dapper (running assertions on the ADO object), or you run it through Dapper and run your assertions on the model.

#

I would just consider it to be part of the query?

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 10:49 PM

#

for EF you pretty much have to tell it how your whole db works and it fully understands the query you’re sending so it can mimic the response correctly like 99.99% of the game

#

it just uses an in memory version for the test

#

tbh I’ve never found them particularly useful

#

usually the queries themselves don’t end up being too complicated and you’d write the in between procedural logic in regular C# which you can test just fine

#

I’ll have to just try it out

#

it’s not a dealbreaker beyond hitting some arbitrary code coverage target

#

knowing the company, most of the more complicated queries live in sprocs anyway

#

which EF can’t test either

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 11:12 PM

#

alright yeah this is a nonissue

#

excuse my wall of text

raw pelican Sep 20, 2024, 11:18 PM

#

speaking of SQL.

#

Spent 5 hours on R homework doing what my knowledge of SQL could have done in 5 minutes, to find out that Alaska Airlines is the worst.

#

I find it very funny that the R developers decided to recreate SQL but worse in R instead of just exporting their dataset, doing SQL on it, and re-importing it, but I have a big bias that I have 8 years of SQL experience and 1 year of R.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 11:21 PM

#

more balanced than for me

#

I have like 2 months of R experience

#

and most of that was just pipelining data from 1 function to the next

raw pelican Sep 20, 2024, 11:22 PM

#

well that's most of R from what I've seen so far.

safe dragon Sep 20, 2024, 11:23 PM

#

I kind of assumed all the preprocessing of data would still be done on sql and only the actual analysis part would be handled by R

#

it's not a field I'm all too familiar with

floral parcel Sep 21, 2024, 12:39 AM

#

I've been using R for a college class, not really a fan of it. Lmao

hoary oasis Sep 21, 2024, 3:17 AM

#

As per atra's request: Ew python SDVkrobusgiggle

cinder karma Sep 21, 2024, 3:18 AM

#

I'm not python's biggest fan but I do like it for tossing together quick little scripts I don't have to maintain in the future

#

My annoyance with python is that it can be quite a difficult language to maintain

hoary oasis Sep 21, 2024, 3:18 AM

#

I probably should at least learn it, I know basically nothing about it at this point

cinder karma Sep 21, 2024, 3:19 AM

#

If you can program at all you can program python

#

I promise you that

hoary oasis Sep 21, 2024, 3:19 AM

#

Lol, that tracks, I kinda feel like most programming languages give that vibe as is

worn remnant Sep 21, 2024, 3:20 AM

#

as i said, i have no real complaints about it. i only dislike it for vibe reasons. i have never enjoyed writing python, so i eschew it

red crest Sep 21, 2024, 3:22 AM

#

my only complaint with python is in being forced to use it for a group project this semester for something that id just much rather not use python for

#

which is not the fault of python. but i will take it out on python

safe dragon Sep 21, 2024, 9:10 AM

#

to me the biggest sin of python is that it plays very loosely with the rules of variable scope

#

I think it’s a pretty bad thing to have for a language that a lot of people start with

#

magically access variables from inside a function that live somewhere outside it

safe dragon Sep 21, 2024, 10:09 AM

#

because I’ve been looking into C# stuff a lot lately I’ve now been getting spammed with videos about C#

#

mostly tutorials for absolute beginners

#

“what is a singleton”

cinder karma Sep 21, 2024, 10:27 AM

#

https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2024/09/17/another-report-weighs-in-on-github-copilot-dev-productivity.aspx

Visual Studio Magazine

Another Report Weighs In on GitHub Copilot Dev Productivity: 👎 -- V...

Several reports have answered 'yes' to the question of whether GitHub Copilot improves developer productivity. A new one says 'no.'

#

Interesting

safe dragon Sep 21, 2024, 10:32 AM

#

the next revolutionary research will say maybe

#

having used copilot myself for a while I think mostly just saves me some keystrokes here and there and have found myself “expecting” it complete it so I just wait there for the completion to come in

#

anything beyond letting it finish a section of code has always had really bad results for me though

#

it wrote an ffmpeg command for me once though which I am forever thankful for

safe dragon Sep 21, 2024, 11:04 AM

#

the sheer number of articles I’ve now found while reading up on a bunch of libraries that I’m like 90% sure were AI generated

rotund violet Sep 21, 2024, 3:58 PM

#

cinder karma https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2024/09/17/another-report-weighs-in-on...

Sure is taking them a long time to relearn what everyone in the industry knew more than 20 years ago and disdained Hollywood for - that programmers aren't secretaries, and that the hard part of software isn't typing, it's thinking.

And here they are shocked - shocked! - that a tool that automates only the easy part, and automates it very badly, is not having an outsized positive impact.

rotund violet Sep 21, 2024, 4:08 PM

#

safe dragon because I’ve been looking into C# stuff a lot lately I’ve now been getting spamm...

YouTube's recommendations are the desperate, needy kid you knew in high school who would cling like a lamprey to anyone who made the rookie mistake of acknowledging his existence.
"Oh, you play games too? I love games! I have 500,000 videos on games! Would you like to hear my 30-minute analysis of the story of a game you played and forgot about 12 years ago? I see you listen to music too, I'll bring over my 400 hours of recordings of video game music!"

#

Whatever eventually replaces YouTube is going to have to understand a little thing called "context".

cinder karma Sep 21, 2024, 9:27 PM

#

YouTube is full of nerds yes

#

Where else can I get comparisons between 36 different brands of silk mohair yarn lol

#

I also like yoga with Adrienne

rotund violet Sep 21, 2024, 10:11 PM

#

There's no problem with those people being on YouTube; it's YouTube itself that's being the creepy nerd with its recommendations.

#

The YouTube nerds aren't personally going after me and trying to get me to watch their nerd videos. They're just uploading stuff they're interested in. That part's just fine.

rain apex Sep 21, 2024, 10:12 PM

#

I would like there to be less 5hr long essays about anime characters whose shows are less than 5hr long

safe dragon Sep 21, 2024, 10:13 PM

#

too bad

cinder karma Sep 21, 2024, 10:21 PM

#

It's also great for convincing you that you indeed have the skills to diy plumbing

rotund violet Sep 21, 2024, 10:24 PM

#

In-house plumbing I can sort of deal with, but I'm still afraid to mess around down in the crawl space, despite what YouTube might have to say about it.
Fixing a broken toilet, no problem. Re-piping the entire house with PEX... I think I'll let the pros handle it.

candid pilot Sep 21, 2024, 10:43 PM

#

i've always hated showing my work idk how to write a coherent math writeup with latex this sucks

safe dragon Sep 21, 2024, 10:44 PM

#

I tried to fix a leak from my kitchen sink like 3 times

#

it'd work for a little while each time

#

ultimately ended up just getting a plumber...

safe dragon Sep 21, 2024, 10:46 PM

#

candid pilot i've always hated showing my work idk how to write a coherent math writeup with ...

there's worse than using latex for this at least

candid pilot Sep 21, 2024, 10:46 PM

#

i solved the math problem and it works and i understand the entire process. why can't other people just understand inherently too

cinder karma Sep 21, 2024, 10:58 PM

#

You could try

#

Giving me or Elizabeth broad

#

Strokes to see if we get it

candid pilot Sep 21, 2024, 11:54 PM

#

the problem was the one that romayne brought up a while ago. I've had it solved i just want to be able to explain my process 😭

#

Let $c_1, c_2, c_3, ..., c_n$ be rational numbers between 0 and 1. The following process is applied to them:

\begin{enumerate}
    \item Randomly shuffle the numbers.
    \item Select the first number.
    \item Generate a random rational number between 0 and 1.
    \item If the random number is less than the selected number, the selected number is the output. If not, select the next number and go to step 3.
    \item If no more numbers can be selected from the list, no item is selected.
\end{enumerate}

Given the above process, for all possible random shuffles, what is the percentage (expressed as a number between 0 and 1) that you will get each number from the list?

#

here's a bit of the writeup for it

rain apex Sep 21, 2024, 11:54 PM

#

discord latex support when

candid pilot Sep 21, 2024, 11:55 PM

#

LITERALLY

#

i think bots exist. whatever

#

i wrote a kind of rant-y overview of the problem. i'll just send that.

#

I rely on the wealth of symmetry this problem has. let's focus on a single value, $m$.
let all other values be represented as $x_1, x_2, x_3, ..., x_{n-1}$. for all $j$, let $d_j = 1 - x_j$.

lets start by analyzing how the probability of getting $m$ is affected by its index in the random shuffling.

If $m$ is first, the chance of getting $m$ is just $m$ itself. This happens $(n - 1)!$ times, given all possible random shuffles.

if $m$ is second, there is a number before it in the list. that means that the chance of getting $m$ is $m(1 - x_1)$ or $m*d_1$. Any $x_j$ can be in front of $m$ in the list, meaning across all random permutations every other value has an effect on the probability of $m$. The amount of times a specific value appears in front of $m$ across all random shuffles is $(n - 2)!$. So the probability of getting $m$ across all shuffles where it is in the second index of the list is $(n - 2)! * m * (d_1 + d_2 + d_3 + ... + d_{n-1})$.

#

for further indexes, i'm going to need to use elementary symmetric polynomials. Let $e_{k}(S)$ be the elementary symmetric polynomial of degree $k$ of $S$. We also let $D = {d_1, d_2, d_3, ..., d_{n-1}}$. We will let $e_0(...) = 1$. We can now rewrite the previous calculated probability as $(n - 2)! * m * e_1(D)$

for $m$ in index 3, there are two unique values in front of $m$ at any time. The probability for $m$ is therefore $d_1 * d_2 * m$. The amount of times a specific set of 2 values (accounting for multiplicative commutativity) appears in front of $m$ is $(n - 3)!$. Accounting for multiplicative commutativity, there are $2!$ unique orderings of the same values in front of $m$. We can find the probability of getting $m$ when it is in the 3rd index across all possible random orderings is $2! * (n - 3)! * m * e_2(D)$.

this finding can be generalized. for an index $i$, the probability of getting $m$ in that index across all possible random orderings is $(i - 1)! * (n - i)! * m * e_{i - 1}(D)$.

we can sum that up across all indexes:

$\sum^n_{j=1} (j - 1)! * (n - j)! * m * e_{j - 1}(D)$

we can factor m out, getting:

$m * \sum^n_{j=1} (j - 1)! * (n - j)! * e_{j - 1}(D)$

now, we average it across all possible random orderings:

$\frac{1}{n!} * m * \sum^n_{j=1} (j - 1)! * (n - j)! * e_{j - 1}(D)$

and this should solve for the probability of any value in the list, given an input of $m$ being that specific value, and $D$ being the set of all values that aren't $m$ run through the function $1 - x$.

#

SORRY

#

a ton of unformatted latex

sand frost Sep 22, 2024, 12:29 AM

#

What’s the problem you’re having? This looks like a reasonably plausible writeup módulo the part where I stopped bothering to do the math in my head partway through.

sand frost Sep 22, 2024, 12:29 AM

#

candid pilot i solved the math problem and it works and i understand the entire process. why ...

The problem is that much of the field of math is secretly about communication 😛

#

I always told my students that if they could convince me something was true, that’s a proof

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 12:36 AM

#

sand frost What’s the problem you’re having? This looks like a reasonably plausible writeup...

is this like, an ok way to write it out?

#

i've never written something formal/rigorous. does it need to be all serious or is this fine 😭

sand frost Sep 22, 2024, 12:40 AM

#

Is this for a proof-based math class? In general this seems pretty decent

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 12:40 AM

#

no this is for my own purposes i just wanted to solve the problem romayne brought up

sand frost Sep 22, 2024, 12:40 AM

#

The “if m is first” chance explanation I’m not fully sure on

#

Ohhh, if it’s just for you then this is totally fine

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 12:41 AM

#

candid pilot no this is for my own purposes i just wanted to solve the problem romayne brough...

and be able to explain it

#

i've never written up anything before and wanted to try it out and it was a lot harder than i thought

sand frost Sep 22, 2024, 12:45 AM

#

It gets easier with practice

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 12:46 AM

#

ok i think i'll use this, i'll definitely edit it a bit for clarity but if it doesn't need to be like super serious that's good to hear

sand frost Sep 22, 2024, 12:53 AM

#

Writing something you can understand is way more important than writing something formal

#

In fact, writing something that is formal and impossible to understand is bad

#

Formality should be used as a tool to achieve rigor, not just for its own sake

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 12:55 AM

#

thank you :)

loud zealot Sep 22, 2024, 4:42 PM

#

Is this the place to ask non-modding related Stardew Valley stuff

fleet wren Sep 22, 2024, 4:43 PM

#

not really? there's at least 5 other channels

#

though this channel do have a common tendency to swirl into on topic stuff

loud zealot Sep 22, 2024, 4:49 PM

#

oh hang on, no, I meant non-modding related SDV programming stuff.

#

I'm not really modding the game, but working on something related to SDV.

fleet wren Sep 22, 2024, 4:50 PM

#

that's indeed a gray topic, but usually we also use making-mods-general for that

rain apex Sep 22, 2024, 4:50 PM

#

Sdv talk is banned here \j

fleet wren Sep 22, 2024, 4:51 PM

#

is talking about talking about SDV banned

rain apex Sep 22, 2024, 4:52 PM

#

I second usage of #making-mods-general even if it's not a game mod, that is what happened with the fishing stats math in the end

loud zealot Sep 22, 2024, 4:53 PM

#

okay then

safe dragon Sep 22, 2024, 4:55 PM

#

this is for non sdv nerd stuff

#

the fishing stats scared me

#

nothing more frightening than statistics

cinder karma Sep 22, 2024, 7:13 PM

#

Peak changelog

#

#

Never a more honest or better changelog

pliant snow Sep 22, 2024, 7:13 PM

#

Fixed known bugs, added exciting new unknown ones

cinder karma Sep 22, 2024, 7:14 PM

#

It's actually a pretty good watch but the app is super unstable

pliant snow Sep 22, 2024, 7:14 PM

#

oh its kinda fitbit esque

cinder karma Sep 22, 2024, 7:16 PM

#

Yup! But I really like the built in GPS, it's quite accurate

cinder karma Sep 22, 2024, 7:32 PM

#

The nerd posted!

#

https://youtu.be/CnMRePtHMZY?si=Na1gML2t-0u7P15e

YouTube

Technology Connections

Thermoelectric cooling: it's not great.

Not such a cool idea after all.
Links 'n' stuff:

Technology Connections on Bluesky:
https://bsky.app/profile/techconnectify.bsky.social

Technology Connections on Mastodon:
https://mas.to/@TechConnectify

Have you ever noticed that I've never done a brand deal? That's all thanks to people like you! Viewer support through Patreon keeps this chan...

▶ Play video

raw pelican Sep 22, 2024, 7:33 PM

#

have yall ever seen Oracle documentation?

#

It's so hit and miss but it's always frustratingly vague as to what actually got fixed and if it is actually fixed.

#

And every single update has a line that says "fixed security vulnerabilities against blind queries". Maybe one day they'll finally close it off.

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:48 PM

#

safe dragon the fishing stats scared me

here’s what i use in my implementation :))

#

n is the length of the list
e_x(S) is the elementary symmetric polynomial of degree x of S
D is every item in the list that isn’t c_k run through 1 - x

safe dragon Sep 22, 2024, 8:49 PM

#

raw pelican have yall ever seen Oracle documentation?

I will soon cause I will have to work with an oracle database...

#

I've certainly seen worse

#

do I know what a symmetric polynomial is? no

#

but I have seen worse

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:50 PM

#

symmetric polynomials are actually really cool i learned about them for this project

bitter kiln Sep 22, 2024, 8:51 PM

#

candid pilot no this is for my own purposes i just wanted to solve the problem romayne brough...

to follow this up, here is a graph for the performance stuff

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:51 PM

#

oh hi romayne. the perpetrator of all of this

bitter kiln Sep 22, 2024, 8:51 PM

#

yar

safe dragon Sep 22, 2024, 8:52 PM

#

functions per minute is an interesting metric

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:53 PM

#

indeed

bitter kiln Sep 22, 2024, 8:53 PM

#

yeah lol it was just what i felt like doing

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:53 PM

#

i get like 30-40 hz on a list of length 20 ish

bitter kiln Sep 22, 2024, 8:53 PM

#

i also did just run a test for time to complete function for list lengths 10-68

#

horrible formatting but i did just throw it together for the sake of it

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:55 PM

#

oooh the slope

safe dragon Sep 22, 2024, 8:56 PM

#

atra wishes they had runtimes this short

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:56 PM

#

this is in python so

bitter kiln Sep 22, 2024, 8:56 PM

#

yea

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:56 PM

#

i imagine its better on an actual fast lang

bitter kiln Sep 22, 2024, 8:56 PM

#

it could do better in a different lang but honestly for the use case thered be no need to port it

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:57 PM

#

i could make that fishing probability mod without sampling

bitter kiln Sep 22, 2024, 8:57 PM

#

yeah!!

#

just need one thing to actually do that proper

#

targeted bait

candid pilot Sep 22, 2024, 8:58 PM

#

eventually

bitter kiln Sep 22, 2024, 8:59 PM

#

;o

#

tbh id be content with there being a solution to that

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:14 AM

#

some day I should learn some sort of server side language other than just PHP

#

but the web confuses me and php you just kinda... stick in there and it do things

rain apex Sep 23, 2024, 2:17 AM

#

I mean doesn't every language has some kinda rest api library think

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:18 AM

#

see thats already more complicated, im retreating back under my rock

#

im like a hermit crab, living in 1990s webland

rain apex Sep 23, 2024, 2:18 AM

#

I POST u pls respond

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:20 AM

#

im just a humble soldier making websites that are just barely above static pages

#

html that just occasionally calls a function, thats my jam

worn remnant Sep 23, 2024, 2:35 AM

#

the modern web is a hellhole and i respect you for hiding under your rock

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:37 AM

#

I know just enough to get simple websites working, and I see everyone else bemoaning it and I wonder what Im missing out on

worn remnant Sep 23, 2024, 2:39 AM

#

overengineering, terrible performance, and antifeatures

cinder karma Sep 23, 2024, 2:40 AM

#

Tbh I used to know django

#

My last attempt at web was years ago, involved Ajax, and betrays my age

#

Also tbh all I want for myself is a nice little sexy static site

#

Anyways

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:41 AM

#

My personal site is static with just a touch of javascript so I could reuse the header bar because I couldn't figure out how to do it without it

cinder karma Sep 23, 2024, 2:41 AM

#

I am soooooooo close to finishing this cardigan

#

Literally just the shoulder caps to go

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:42 AM

#

but for stuff where I just need basically a static site that accesses a database, I just always use PHP and thats it, and wonder if theres not a greater destiny out there

cinder karma Sep 23, 2024, 2:42 AM

#

And some detailing like elbow patches

#

Unfortunately I am not capable of staying awake any longer

#

Night night!

worn remnant Sep 23, 2024, 2:43 AM

#

pliant snow My personal site is static with just a touch of javascript so I could reuse the ...

pretty close to peak website, honestly. the less a website does, the better it is.
consult e.g. https://danluu.com/ for how to make a good one

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:45 AM

#

thats not peak website

#

https://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ is peak website

#

maybe ruby on rails would be worth looking into...

#

then id move into hiding under a 2000s rock

cinder karma Sep 23, 2024, 2:47 AM

#

Django

#

Unless you really want ruby

rain apex Sep 23, 2024, 2:47 AM

#

I enjoy the Index of /path page

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:48 AM

#

im having chatgpt show me examples of each lol

rain apex Sep 23, 2024, 2:48 AM

#

Streaming services should just be that tbh

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:48 AM

#

django seems like it has a lot of fiddly config stuff

#

god php is still so much simpler than the others

#

i regret nothing

#

its the children who are wrong

rain apex Sep 23, 2024, 2:55 AM

#

Do you have actual need of fancy one page app or whatever LilyDerp

#

If not then php just werks

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 2:56 AM

#

No, I literally just need to make SQL queries and thats it lol

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 6:54 AM

#

ruby on rails would be so overkill

#

I don't think you'd even like having to use active record instead of just slapping together a sql query

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 7:00 AM

#

cinder karma My last attempt at web was years ago, involved Ajax, and betrays my age

it's ok. I still used Ajax like a week ago

#

there's lots of good simple server side options available though they're not hip rn

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 1:02 PM

#

safe dragon I don't think you'd even like having to use active record instead of just slappi...

this is true

#

I was mainly annoyed fighting with PHP in docker, but I think it's all still way better than the alternatives I've seen

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 1:10 PM

#

a lesson forgotten by web devs

#

if you're not building a website with complex interactivity requirements, don't choose your tech as if you are

#

people building regular fuckin company websites that could be achieved with nothing but html and css deciding to load in several MBs worth of Javascript dependencies just to render the page

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 1:23 PM

#

I think their tutorials are better now, but when I first starting looking into webassembly, all the guides went into seting up NPM and adding hundreds of dependencies to get it running. I eventually figured out the correct incantation to just have it compile into a single blob and autogenerate like 50 lines of JS bindings instead

#

its a goofy language, but PHP seems to do exactly what I want it to do

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 1:24 PM

#

could even decide to switch to laravel...

#

stick with php...

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 1:25 PM

#

ive heard the name before but know nothing about it

#

is svelte useful for this, i also donno its benefits either

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 1:32 PM

#

svelte's main selling point is having the website automatically respond and update to state changes while mostly sticking to regular Javascript

#

svelte itself isn't even on the server though

#

that's a client side framework

#

sveltekit is the standard server framework part you'd use to deploy svelte with

#

not technically required tho

#

what is the thing you need that php isn't giving you

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 1:35 PM

#

noting at all

#

im just seeing if the grass is greener

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 1:35 PM

#

it is if you actually have complex requirements

#

but your usecase is more on the side of looking into what they call "static site generators"

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 1:36 PM

#

This is somewhat unrelated, but it's always annoyed me that HTML doesn't have any sort of "import" mechanism. That way you could define like a header bar in one file and just import it elsewhere. It has to be done in JS or on the serverside

#

yeahhhhh

#

My requirements are "read from a SQL database and render basic bitch HTML from it" lol

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 1:37 PM

#

you want components in your html hc_pensive

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 1:38 PM

#

who doesnt

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 1:38 PM

#

good question

#

I think essentially every single modern web framework adopted the component model

#

in some form

#

okay maybe not htmx

#

htmx' wild innovation is simply being html in a world where http requests weren't limited to forms

#

I don't think it does anything else

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:16 PM

#

#

this is a very cryptic thumbnail

#

I can't immediately see what it might be about

#

well

#

the answer is apparently just "by making projects"

#

with a few examples given in the video

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 3:23 PM

#

as opposed to what

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:28 PM

#

endlessly watching tutorials

#

I have known a few people who did that

#

just endlessly following tutorials and online courses but never building anything

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 3:43 PM

#

they are accumulating knowledge

#

preparing for the day to harvest it

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:43 PM

#

they will enter the job market knowing everything and having never touched a keyboard

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 3:44 PM

#

theyre a theoretical engineer

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 3:47 PM

#

Fill your github with something, and make a tiny change every day so you have a big green board.

#

Employers love that. They won't look at details.

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 3:48 PM

#

employers LOVE this ONE EASY TRICK

#

repository FIVE WILL SHOCK YOU

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:48 PM

#

reminds me of when a bunch of repos I followed all got "spelling fix" changes which was some bot farm trying to create github accounts with good stats

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 3:49 PM

#

My commit history is just an easy way to track when I have free time.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:49 PM

#

mine is a great indicator of when advent of code is going on

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 3:49 PM

#

its interesting how mine has similar patterns year after year

#

like im always less active in the fall for some reason

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:51 PM

#

I'm not consistent enough to even have any pattern beyond "suddenly in december he has started doing commits daily"

#

maybe someday I will work on some github project where I can use my personal account and my activity will look incredible

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 3:52 PM

#

I have bursts, a big chunk of commits when I get the itch and then months of silence. Only recently (last two months) it's been getting more consistent.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:52 PM

#

my soon to be employer also works azure devops just like my last one though so no github contributions

#

a shame smh

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 3:54 PM

#

I got 8 years of sql experience and very hard to show examples.... our work has a weird open source system where we can freely share with other institutions of a certain type but can't share outside of that.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:54 PM

#

everything I've worked on has been locked away for no one else to ever lay their eyes upon

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 3:54 PM

#

if you write code, but dont post it to github to show off, did you really have a job

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:55 PM

#

I will make sure to publish my company's codebase when I leave so that I have proof I did something

#

actually

#

there's a risk they'll actually look at it

#

which is a bad idea

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 3:56 PM

#

squash all, make yourself the author

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:56 PM

#

I don't want to be attributed to 99% of the code in that codebase

#

including my own

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 3:56 PM

#

I've never applied to places that asked for code so the github is more for building a grad school application portfolio, which means besides the R things I need to make a personal project in Python.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:56 PM

#

time for a django website just to fit some random criteria

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 3:58 PM

#

I do have an idea for one, need to write it down.
Or just re-do more Euler's problems but in Python, that's the lazy way.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:58 PM

#

euler problems hc_pensive

#

advent of code for people who understand math

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 3:59 PM

#

It was a good way to dip into a language when you don't know what to start with.

#

Spent a long time making a palindrome finder in R and then after submitting the answer, found that R has a rev() [reverse] function.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 3:59 PM

#

lmao

#

I had to make one in prolog once I think

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 4:01 PM

#

the prime-checker ones were also fun to try to figure out before knowing that the sieve of eratosthenes exists.

cinder karma Sep 23, 2024, 4:01 PM

#

Lol

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 4:01 PM

#

I had not heard of advent of code, I'll have to check that one out.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 4:02 PM

#

join us in december...

#

I will probably be very busy this december so I don't actually know if I will have the energy for it this time

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 4:05 PM

#

I will probably have time since classes end early december. Does it have a desired language or are they agnostic to anything you want to try it in?

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 4:05 PM

#

you don't actually submit the code, just your answer so you could write it in whatever you desire

#

some have opted to try and solve them in vimscript or excel before

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 4:06 PM

#

ok that's like Euler then, each problem you just submit the numerical answer and then you get access to the secret forums where people post their code if they want.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 4:06 PM

#

in this case the secret forums is just a reddit thread

#

advent of code basically starts super easy on day 1 and then progressively ups the complexity (and time commitment...) till the 25th

#

like a strange advent calendar

#

the 25th one is usually fairly easy and quick to solve

raw pelican Sep 23, 2024, 4:08 PM

#

makes sense, gotta let you open your presents.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 4:09 PM

#

it's fun

#

I've been doing it with a bunch of friends every year for a while now

rain apex Sep 23, 2024, 4:16 PM

#

Exciting, I'll see if I can rope anyone into doing it with me

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 4:17 PM

#

usually people start to fall off near the last few days as they get more time consuming to complete

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 4:21 PM

#

the first week is trivial, then by week three you're spending 6 hours a day on it

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 4:21 PM

#

or you know exactly what to do and it takes 10 minutes

cinder karma Sep 23, 2024, 4:21 PM

#

Lol

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 4:23 PM

#

or you know exactly what to do and it takes 6 hours

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 4:24 PM

#

yes

#

spend 3 hours cause you get the wrong answer not knowing what you fucked up

candid pilot Sep 23, 2024, 4:29 PM

#

candid pilot here’s what i use in my implementation :))

wonder if i can make this better with vieta's formulas

#

bc like. (1 + a)(1 + b)(1 + c) = 1 + e_1(a,b,c) + e_2(a,b,c) + e_3(a,b,c)

rotund violet Sep 23, 2024, 4:47 PM

#

safe dragon people building regular fuckin company websites that could be achieved with noth...

Not exactly that simple anymore. Even a small business usually needs some kind of social media BS, an appointment system, analytics, maybe a payment processor... and normal humans being the fickle beings they've always been, you get more click-throughs when you've got carousels and parallax and junk. This is descriptive, not prescriptive, by the way; I'm not arguing for what should be mandatory for a typical website, only what is.

#

SSGs are fine and good, but I consider the comparison to frameworks like Svelte/Next/etc. to be a category error. SSGs are an alternative to CMSes and database-driven sites, regardless of how the frontend is done.

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:02 PM

#

I was mostly thinking of the website my company has which is unimaginably slow despite having nothing I can find that should require more than a few lines of javascript at most

#

but I just checked to see if I could figure out the tool that was used and it's wordpress

#

makes me wonder why it's so sluggish

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:03 PM

#

for (i = 0; i < 10000000; i++) {
    // If the boss ever demands we speed up the app, delete another zero
}

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:07 PM

#

at least the SEO score is good

#

wtf

#

#

from a browse it seems it's using this https://elementor.com/

Elementor

Website Builder — Create a Website Today - Elementor

Create your website or online store, no coding needed. Elementor's intuitive website builder makes it easy for anyone. Start creating now!

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:14 PM

#

your company's website?

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:14 PM

#

yeah

#

their marketing website essentially

#

seems like there is 7.5 MB of javascript and 12 MB of "typed arrays"

#

also 1MB of strings

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:16 PM

#

thats... a lot of text

lethal walrus Sep 23, 2024, 5:17 PM

#

20mb.. per load?

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:17 PM

#

yes

#

well

#

30 MB per load

worn remnant Sep 23, 2024, 5:17 PM

#

thinking once again about the website obesity crisis https://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm

#

it's nine years old! the numbers in it seem charmingly small by today's standards

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:19 PM

#

safe dragon at least the SEO score is good

what service is this?

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:19 PM

#

lighthouse

#

built into chromium browsers

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:19 PM

#

worn remnant thinking once again about the website obesity crisis <https://idlewords.com/talk...

the examples here feel almost cute by comparison now

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:20 PM

#

rip

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:21 PM

#

well at least you score very well on peformance!

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:21 PM

#

thats stardew.chat

#

my own site is both better and worse

#

#

its all about how i handle images

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:22 PM

#

you score better cause I told you years ago to use webps you're welcome

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:22 PM

#

and its still complaining about the ones that arent

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:22 PM

#

complaining about the gifs

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:22 PM

#

you know what, fine, i'll make them webps

#

no theyre pngs still lol

#

actuallly i dont think anything is a webp, i used svg instead

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:23 PM

#

svgs are nice

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:23 PM

#

you know what

#

im gonna get all 100s

#

i'll show you chrome

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:23 PM

#

reach that arbitrary 100 goal

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:24 PM

#

that way my SEO will be good

#

even tho i think it only checks the homepage

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:24 PM

#

every page would get a different score

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:25 PM

#

most of its complaints are my header bar, so actually it would improve a lot across the site

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:25 PM

#

lighthouse hates my own website cause i added a robot.txt blocking web scrapers

#

smh

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:25 PM

#

im here to give AI bad ideas

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:26 PM

#

on your own front page it seems pretty straight forward

#

add caching headers to the served images, replace the pngs, add a viewport meta tag

#

and stop being hostile to people with disabilities smh

#

my company's website is an enigma though

#

I can't tell what it's even using all this for

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:29 PM

#

its mining crypto for your pension

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:29 PM

#

a full 1 second is spent during loading simply on firing timers

#

it's all minified so idk what it does

cinder karma Sep 23, 2024, 5:30 PM

#

Lol

#

Fuck wordpress

#

It is my nemesis today

#

(I will not elaborate)

#

(Not sorry)

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:31 PM

#

there's so many plugins on this website

#

let me see if my new employer's website is better

#

it will be the sole metric I will be judging them by to see if I picked right

#

ok good

pliant snow Sep 23, 2024, 5:36 PM

#

your first job is to get that into the 90s

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:36 PM

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as far as I can tell this one is manually written with no dependencies other than jquery and slider.js

cinder karma Sep 23, 2024, 5:37 PM

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What's best practices here

safe dragon Sep 23, 2024, 5:37 PM

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same for both, chrome is warning about the fact that 3rd party cookies are used which will be phased out

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but

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ironically

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in both cases those cookies are coming from google analytics