programmers-off-topic

[sand frost]

For CPU temperature rise

[safe dragon]

a good one

[strange copper]

this oneYES

[thin estuary]

if (building.GetData() is { } data)

[marble jewel]

I laugh because it's funny, and then cry because it's true

[safe dragon]

I've actually got a worse one that really hurts. We are rebuilding a lot of functionality in the cash registers to be available via api to use elsewhere... We've been given the requirement for the api to always return the exact same answer as the cash register.
It's happened quite a few times now that we realized that the cash registers were doing something wrong, so we report and then get told it's been accepted to work this (broken) way and that we should build the new service to also do exactly that

[marble jewel]

Elegant. Pattern matching master race.

[thin estuary]

i hate it

but it works

[marble jewel]

I do a lot of is { } because that's what my IDE tells me to do

[safe dragon]

we've had to essentially intentionally add bugs to our api because else it wouldn't be the same as the cash registers...

[thin estuary]

i don't think i've ever actually checked for anything in that { }

[marble jewel]

I did at one point, but found it less readable than splitting things out

[safe dragon]

I have a few times I think

yeah often it just looks off

[thin estuary]

i wish i could do:

void Method(int? n)
{
    if (n is not { } n)
        return;
}

basically shadowing n

[marble jewel]

Here's a real piece of code in my mod where I'm using pattern matching for more than a null check:

if (!this.isActive.Value
    || e.Button is not (SButton.MouseLeft or SButton.MouseRight or SButton.ControllerA or SButton.ControllerB)
    || this.holding.Value is not null
    || this.itemGrabMenuManager.CurrentMenu?.chestColorPicker is not
    {
        itemToDrawColored: Chest chest,
    } colorPicker
    || this.itemGrabMenuManager.Top.Container is not ChestContainer container)
{
    return;
}

It's more like a null check in a null check

[thin estuary]

oh god that looks ugly

[marble jewel]

Oh I found a really good one, you'll hate it. Real code:

inventoryMenu = Game1.activeClickableMenu switch
{
    ItemGrabMenu
    {
        inventory:
        { } inventory,
    } when inventory.isWithinBounds(mouseX, mouseY) => inventory,
    ItemGrabMenu
    {
        ItemsToGrabMenu:
        { } itemsToGrabMenu,
    } when itemsToGrabMenu.isWithinBounds(mouseX, mouseY) => itemsToGrabMenu,
    GameMenu gameMenu when gameMenu.GetCurrentPage() is InventoryPage
    {
        inventory:
        { } inventoryPage,
    } => inventoryPage,
    _ => null,
};

To find the menu that the cursor is hovering over

[thin estuary]

goodbye

[ivory shadow]

SMAPI Talk: Now that we have DataLoader to simplify loading things with the right types, it'd be neat if the AssetRequestedEvent had a similar thing for .Edit().

Like currently you can do .AsDictionary<>, .AsMap, and .AsImage but maybe toss in some extension methods for specific types?

[marble jewel]

"How to lose what respect anyone had for you in under 2 seconds"

[safe dragon]

what is this cursed code

[ivory shadow]

Like instead of .AsDictionary<string, ShopData>() an extension method for .AsShopData()

[marble jewel]

Hey, cursed code that works is still working code. This is why my mods are MIT licensed, because no one in their right mind would actually want to fork my code.

[safe dragon]

honestly better formatting could save this code and make it look pretty ok

[marble jewel]

I don't format my code, I use analyzers and reformatting tools to do it for me

[safe dragon]

I wanna have a talk with your formatters

[ivory shadow]

Why talk to his formatters

Go directly for an exorcist

[safe dragon]

you're right

[marble jewel]

I don't even agree with all the formatting rules, but it lets me forgo the responsibilities

Like, whatever you say JetBrains + StyleCop. You're right.

I just want to write code and not worry about formatting, documentation, or good git commit messages

[supple ether]

that is an abuse of power

[cinder karma]

I don't hate this

[marble jewel]

Two types of people in this world

[marble jewel]

!god

[indigo mist]

To use this command, type !god.

[thin estuary]

I don’t really hate it too much either, I’m just tired. Spent my day trying to override the font in Cobalt Core with a more compact edit I made of the one it normally uses, trying to give it all kerning data… only to realize it completely ignores kerning :|

[ivory shadow]

Ah, keming

[thin estuary]

More like, EXHAUS T

[ivory shadow]

oh no

[safe dragon]

.g cobalt core

[heavy dagger]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2179850/Cobalt_Core/

Steam

Cobalt Core

Cobalt Core is a sci-fi roguelike deckbuilder with a unique single-axis combat system that will throw you for a loop. Many loops! Give orders to your crew by playing cards: Will you raise shields to protect your ship, dodge incoming missiles and cannon fire to avoid damage outright, or strike preemptively to disable your enemy’s weapons? Outmane...

Price

$19.99

Recommendations

2042

Metacritic

94

▶ Play video

[safe dragon]

oh it's a game

looks neat

[supple ether]

does cobalt core actually have furries in it or is that just creative license on the title card?

[thin estuary]

I hope it’s gonna help some modders, but nothing can save this card, it won’t fit: before and after

[supple ether]

that is.... a lot of text to cram into such a small space

[thin estuary]

The playable characters are animal-based, yes

[supple ether]

hell yeah

[cinder karma]

To be fair I'm hardware not software

So that is Less Cursed TM

[safe dragon]

text rendering. One of the oldest things in all of game development yet it's still a pain in the ass even now

[thin estuary]

I’d drink to that, but I gotta sleep

[safe dragon]

sleep sounds good

I've had to do some dynamic font scaling a few times for primarily winforms stuff and it gets pretty nasty

[cinder karma]

I joke the reason why I don't get PRs is my code is bad and the mods unfun

[supple ether]

one of several reasons I used monospace fonts for games for so long. and also one of the reasons I love godot

[cinder karma]

When the real reason is probably my repo is cursed and involves submodules

[sand frost]

False your mods are fun!!

[supple ether]

my problem with PRs is that I'll knock out the feature in a few hours and then spend like a week worrying whether or not the code is good enough to put in someone else's repository. and then I never PR it

[safe dragon]

monospace fonts make life a lot easier it's true

[cinder karma]

Meanwhile I've sent Pathos two separate half coherent PRs

[safe dragon]

open source woes. At work my PRs are gonna get accepted cause the deadline was 3 weeks ago even though we didn't even get the item till the week before

[cinder karma]

(The AssetName one, aka "it's totally obvious a hardware engineer wrote this since there is a truth table in here " and interpolated strinf handler, where the code worked but I apparently got sidetracked while documenting and didn't notice)

[supple ether]

I was going to do a PR for... range highlight? data layers? whichever of those is a pathos mod. to add support for the modified range option on better beehouses, but I ran into this weird problem where it got exponentially slower as range increased, and beyond a few tiles over the vanilla range, the game would just slow to a crawl

[cinder karma]

Data layers

[supple ether]

I suspect it was somehow due to the way it does rendering but I could never figure out where the lag was actually coming from, so I just abandoned it

[leaden marsh]

I relate to this so hard. There was a period of time when I straight up forgot to put what issue I was even fixing in the PR message

[supple ether]

which reminds me, at some point I need to make a test mod for that spacecore custom tools PR I was gonna do

[crystal wren]

(Taking self documenting code to the next level!)

[cinder karma]

Oh free enchiladas!

[ivory shadow]

(Will this be the year I fix the word wrapping bugs in Almanac? Spoiler: No )

[marble jewel]

What you describe as bugs, I call unintentional/unwanted features

Happy little accidents

[cinder karma]

I'm glad I will probably never have to think about word wrapping or internationalization again

[safe dragon]

never say never

[marble jewel]

When suddenly...
"Atra, you are our only hope. The fate of the world depends on you fixing this word wrapping internationalization issue"

[cinder karma]

Yeah we're all dying sorry

YouTube keeps advertising this ui/ux game dev course to me

Which

You know

Is about as far from what I like to do and what I'm good at as possible without evolving into modern art

[safe dragon]

love ads for things I would definitely never do anything with

[marble jewel]

Or how about ads that you did one search and suddenly Google thinks it's your entire personality

Actually the ones that really get me are me physically visiting a store, never do a search, but suddenly seeing ads for things in the store

[safe dragon]

when you let a single family guy video autoplay by accident

"you must love family guy here's 300 clips and also south park"

[ivory shadow]

Hey atra wanna fix my word wrapping code?

[safe dragon]

tbh I go down YouTube rabbit holes frequently for enthusiasts for product types I would never do anything with so I give off mixed signals

[ivory shadow]

I did a search for what turned out to be an air purifier like four years ago cause I didn't know what it was, and Google still advertises them to me

[cinder karma]

You're the legendary UI expert around here!

[marble jewel]

I literally bought boots from a store, and started seeing Boots ads on social media

[cinder karma]

I'm just a dumb EE

[marble jewel]

Tracking is extra creepy

[safe dragon]

I get recommendations for note-taking eink tablets despite never taking notes (I used like 6 pages of a single notebook in 4 years of university)

[sand frost]

I used to get lots of worm gear ads

That was actually fun

[fleet oriole]

Reading the fancy words about Hash Sets. “The HashSet<T> is an unordered collection of unique items. No order is maintained.” This somehow fits me perfectly!!!

[ivory shadow]

I am a hash set of useless video game trivia and programming.

[fleet oriole]

My bedroom is sadly a hashset too

[safe dragon]

an unordered collection where no order is maintained

[cinder karma]

techincally hashsets have an order to them, it's just not an order that you would expect for anything

iterating a hashset twice will produce the same order

[strange copper]

Omw to implement a hashset that iterates by randomly generating which element to return

[ivory shadow]

HashSets only have an order as a detail of the implementation.

[digital canyon]

Anyone use GLFW?

[leaden marsh]

I do!

[digital canyon]

Noice

I assume you use c++? and do you use Vulkan or OpenGL?

[leaden marsh]

I've written GLFW based applets in C & C++, with OpenGL

[digital canyon]

nice!

[leaden marsh]

Vulkan is interesting but unsupported on some of my test machines

[digital canyon]

What do you think about C vs C++?

[digital canyon]

True, though it actually is more supported than I though

back to GTX 960s

[leaden marsh]

Mhmm, it's less the hardware support and more the fact that OpenGL, though deprecated, still works seamlessly on MacOS

As for C vs C++

My thing is that I don't need most of the C++ feature set, & C works better for my tooling, so I prefer C

[digital canyon]

Ah

What projects do you do?

[leaden marsh]

It's blazing fast to compile, so I use it where possible

Game engine development, primarily

[digital canyon]

hat does tooling mean also? Sorry I'm not very knowledgable

[digital canyon]

That is my main long term goal

to build a framework for desktop apps

[leaden marsh]

Ah sure, yeah I have some in-house tools to track down memory leaks and other resource allocation leaks, and C just fits those tools better

It's severely limiting syntactically, and very verbose

[digital canyon]

ah yea

[leaden marsh]

I think in general, modern C++ is safer & easier to develop than C, with a better standard library

[digital canyon]

True

Is C or CPP faster I wonder

cause C is prob simpler

[leaden marsh]

However, if you make a mistake in C++, it can be much harder to track down

[digital canyon]

but CPP has advanced features already built in

true

[leaden marsh]

C is faster to compile, but between C & C++, execution time differences are negligible

[digital canyon]

I need to go back and debug one of my older projects

[stiff gazelle]

c# is life :[

[leaden marsh]

That boils down to compiler implementation

[stiff gazelle]

:p

[digital canyon]

C# is quite popular

[digital canyon]

I wanted to build LLVM but I think I have a tad too little RAM

but anyhow I settled on MSVC for now

[leaden marsh]

I write a lot of C# now thanks to Stardew, but at heart I'm still a C developer

MSVC is good, though written mostly as a C++ compiler from my experience with it

[digital canyon]

definitely

What compiler do you use for C?

[leaden marsh]

It's also been slower in compile times and worse at auto vectorizing than GCC or clang

I use MSVC on Windows, and GCC or clang on Linux & MacOS

There's some differences between GCC & clang but nothing that I've really had to deal with so far

[digital canyon]

tbh I have a negative association with GCC

I don't really like the GNU type licensing

I feel like the freedom requirements get too restrictive

[leaden marsh]

My project is meant to be easily compiled on Debian/Ubuntu, MacOS 1.15+, and Windows 10+, so I try to avoid using compiler specific extensions in my own code

[digital canyon]

that's smart

GLFW is designed for cross platform from the get go right?

[leaden marsh]

Yeah, I usually use the pre built binaries on Windows, and build from source on MacOS & Ubuntu

[digital canyon]

noice

I don't like the Python indent syntax also

semi colons seem sketchy at first but actually work really well

[leaden marsh]

I'm generally fine with most language's syntax choices

I really appreciate Python's simplicity

If you aren't dealing with it's package management/dependency hell, it's a great for quick little scripts for bootstrapping a dev environment

[digital canyon]

What do you make of the new "next gen" languages?

The ones that are suppost to be super fast and simple

[digital canyon]

ah yes

downloading 20 tools to do one task lol

development

[leaden marsh]

I don't care much for simplicity of development personally, but it's very valuable for any larger scale project with multiple people working on them

[digital canyon]

yea

[leaden marsh]

Reading anyone's C code can be a nightmare, especially with how much C developers tend to use code generators or preprocessor tricks

[digital canyon]

ahhhh

There are so many different ways to do simple tasks

[leaden marsh]

True

I like C because it forces me to reinvent the wheel a lot, which is good for generally understanding how things are implemented. That said, I don't think that's valuable for most kinds of development tasks

[digital canyon]

agreed

except I take it one step easier with object oriented C++

[leaden marsh]

For most, I'd say understanding when to use a hash table is more important than knowing how it works

So I think C++ is a good middle ground

But I'd almost recommend using Rust at that point, because it would encourage better habits imo

[digital canyon]

As a rookie programmer I need to find out how to get around if loops

Huh

Yea habits are a big thing

[leaden marsh]

It's more that C++ & its compilers let you make many mistakes without complaining

People describe C & C++ code as "eager to compile"

Even if you use static checkers, sanitizers, and constrain the subset of the language you use, it's just not as safe as something like Rust

It teaches better habits because that's the whole design philosophy of the language

[stiff gazelle]

how does rust translate to game development?

[digital canyon]

Eh

[stiff gazelle]

or reverse engineering

[digital canyon]

The community isn’t really there

But it’s growing

[digital canyon]

I think a common theme is: C++ is better if you know how to use it but, it’s harder to know how to use than Rust

[leaden marsh]

I don't think C++ is better in any capacity imo

That's not me saying Rust is better either

It's just that no developer is perfect, even experienced C++ developers make common mistakes, and there's no safeguards for it

[digital canyon]

True that is a big flaw

[leaden marsh]

C++'s greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness

Code written decades ago will just work

But as a result, new code has to deliberately forgo language features that exist solely to support legacy code

[digital canyon]

Sometimes it’s just better to start anew, I bet Windows is almost spaghetti code rn

[leaden marsh]

Windows is known to be spaghetti code, yeah

[digital canyon]

Explains why explorer crashed so often

[leaden marsh]

I don't remember where I heard this, but it has something like 5 million lines of code in the codebase that no one understands

[digital canyon]

Anyhow, I really gotta go to bed, peace

[stiff gazelle]

that's crazy lol

[digital canyon]

Those notes that the one guy 30 years ago wrote:

Imagine they just delete it to see what happens

[leaden marsh]

Slight tangent but Windows having such a chokehold on the gaming industry is one of biggest frustrations

In any case, my overall point is, never consider one language better than another

They all have their use cases

[digital canyon]

It’s practically a monopoly, really annoying cause I don’t want to use it but pretty much have to

[leaden marsh]

I genuinely hope that Steam Deck can weaken the standing of Windows as the de facto gaming OS

I know MacOS is "trying" with having stuff like GPT (Game Porting Toolkit, stupid to reuse that acronym, I know)

But until they start trying to actively support Vulkan instead of locking developers into Metal, it's a hard ask to expect devs to actually work on a MacOS port

Also actively deprecating the later, more useful versions of OpenGL is such a tragedy

[digital canyon]

Microsoft seems to be trying to smush out OpenGL just a bit

[leaden marsh]

The AZDO (approaching zero driver overhead) techniques for OpenGL are mostly 4.0+ features that are deprecated in MacOS

[uncut seal]

Playing on Linux is pretty easy nowadays with Steam's Proton

[leaden marsh]

And those features actually make it potentially viable versus other graphics APIs

[digital canyon]

True, though it doesn’t always work right

[leaden marsh]

Yeah, I think a lot of players will even use Proton version instead of the native Linux version because sometimes it just works better

[uncut seal]

I rarely have issues with games, and when I have, it's mostly new releases for which the community is actively finding solutions

[digital canyon]

How good is performance?

[uncut seal]

I had to do this for CIV6 : the Linux native version hasn't been updated since 2019 or something like this, making it impossible to play online

[leaden marsh]

Not quite native, but pretty good tbh

[uncut seal]

I'd say better than Windows but my laptop is pretty old, I could barely run The Thalos Principle 2 last year (mainly because my computer doesn't support advanced graphics anyway)

[leaden marsh]

Running via Proton beats a poorly coded native version anyday though

[uncut seal]

The hardest part for me was to install Nvidia drivers, but I've heard that I was on the hardest distribution of Linux to do so : Fedora

[leaden marsh]

Ah yeah that makes sense

[digital canyon]

Unpopular opinion but Nvidis is just a horrible company

[uncut seal]

yup, but I kinda learnt about that 2 years after getting my laptop

[leaden marsh]

If it's good hardware, it's good hardware

[digital canyon]

But they still have the industry standard

So once again we are stuck

[digital canyon]

Valid

Anyhow this time I really gotta go to bed

[uncut seal]

GPU makers doing everything in their power to make it impossible to make open-source drivers sucks

[leaden marsh]

Night!

[leaden marsh]

Facts

[safe dragon]

it usually is honestly

[safe dragon]

I don't think that's an unpopular opinion

people like Nvidia gpus but I don't think there's many people who know about Nvidia as a company and like them still

[safe dragon]

the binding of Isaac had native Linux versions for every dlc except suddenly the last one

proton has been a double-edged sword. It's making it possible to play significantly more games on Linux than before, but it also makes it far less interesting to a developer to make a native Linux build

a lot of indie devs want their game to work well on the steam deck specifically though so they still tend to put some effort into making sure it runs smoothly even if that's through proton

[leaden marsh]

A double-edged sword is a good way to put it. It allows for a more "write once, run anywhere" type of workflow which is incredibly convenient (especially for indie devs on shoestring budgets), but it ultimately incentivizes writing games that target Proton (and by extension, Windows)

Hi Atra!

Did you see I've become a Rust shill

[safe dragon]

everyone becomes a rust shill eventually

[leaden marsh]

I have touched Rust only once, so maybe it really is just a grass is greener on the other side type thing

[safe dragon]

it's some pretty green grass tbh but it definitely does have issues too

a big flaw it currently has compared to C/C++ is a lack of a stable ABI

[leaden marsh]

A stable ABI is both the strength & weakness of C/C++

There's no better tool for the job as it is now imo

[safe dragon]

performance wise I think your choice of programming language is honestly not as important as people make it out to be. Most of the times when I've seen significant performance issues in an application it was a flaw with how the code was written and not the language

[cinder karma]

Hi!

[safe dragon]

it's rare for an application to run into the limits of the language itself performance wise

[leaden marsh]

I'd say the biggest exception to that is Python

[cinder karma]

How are you doing?

[safe dragon]

ok yeah the performance approach python has gone with is "do it in C instead"

[leaden marsh]

I remember translating a Python script almost line-by-line into C++, where it was several orders of magnitudes faster

(It was a pre-processing script for my codebase, where in Python it would take maybe 5 seconds, while in C++ it's milliseconds)

[safe dragon]

pretty much any performance conscious library in python is written in C/C++

[cinder karma]

Eh, you can say the language is less of a problem but the c# compiler does not have the time to do a good job and it's obvious ReadOnlySpan and friends are latecomers to the language and don't fit nicely

[leaden marsh]

To me choosing between the languages is mostly about choosing between the tooling available

[safe dragon]

it can definitely cause performance to get worse still yeah, still gotta pick the right language for the job

[crystal wren]

(This is (secondarily) #lost-rustaceans, after all!)

[cinder karma]

Then again I've been in Cursed land lately

Will continue being in cursed land

And won't cease to be in cursed land for a while

[leaden marsh]

C# (and similiarly, Java) run fast enough at this point that I'd have trouble coming up with a good reason to pick C/C++ if the comparison point is performance on a modern PC

[cinder karma]

Even verilog would be preferable to labview

[crystal wren]

What repeatedly impresses me about Python is the startup time for things written in it. Which makes sense, and yet somehow feels a little counter-intuitive?

[safe dragon]

C# is a language with a high performance ceiling but also full of performance footguns that you don't even know are happening

[leaden marsh]

Very fair

[cinder karma]

C# is a language with a high performance ceiling that also just fjckinf feels like writing c++ when you're trying to hit it tbh

[safe dragon]

it's not ergonomic to write in any case

[cinder karma]

Nope!

I implemented my own string splitter

[leaden marsh]

The main thing I appreciate about C# is reflection

Newer C++ standards are proposing a form of static reflection

[cinder karma]

That is very nice yes

[safe dragon]

rust I think is nice partially just because normal comfortable code written in rust is still actually very performant and often enough trying to outsmart the compiler is just not happening unless you really know what you're doing

[leaden marsh]

Right, Rust is a language where I almost absolutely trust that the compiler is smarter than I am

And more correct than I am

Between Java and C# I think I'll always choose C# though

[safe dragon]

I've never used Java so that's entirely true for me too!

[cinder karma]

Hahaha yeah

[leaden marsh]

My biggest qualm with it is the lack of operator overloading

[cinder karma]

Although I've been meaning to (a) learn zig and (b) do more Haskell

Haskell as a replacement for verilog mind

[leaden marsh]

Say what you will about operator overloading, but saying
v1 = v1.Multiply(v2)
just isn't as nice as
v1 *= v2

[safe dragon]

haskell is neat but then also a language I would never choose for any project ever

it's interesting to see what kind of madness they're up to trying to turn their type system into a programming language of its own

[cinder karma]

(I'm looking at it in the small world of as a verilog replacement)

[leaden marsh]

Interesting

[safe dragon]

considering I don't even know what verilog is I will trust you on that

[cinder karma]

See: Haskell Clash

[leaden marsh]

(Also I'm doing well & ate a lot of sashimi and can't sleep bc im so full)

[safe dragon]

nice

zig might be interesting to give a shot but I feel like I should actually try C++/C cause I've never used them

[thin estuary]

it's for programming FPGAs

[leaden marsh]

Very different languages, C & C++, in this day and age

[safe dragon]

ah hardware stuff then

[leaden marsh]

I'd almost never recommend C unless it's really needed, since it's (practically) a subset of C++

Not entirely true, but there is a substantial overlap between code written in C, and code that will compile correctly with a C++ compiler

[cinder karma]

Also don't get me wrong I like c# perfectly fine! It's better than java!

[leaden marsh]

Better than Java is a low bar

Not as low of a bar as better than JavaScript though

[cinder karma]

But I've noticed it is like....really not ergonomic when you are going for performance

[leaden marsh]

Not that I dislike JavaScript, but it really isn't the right tool for... so many of the things it's actually used for

[safe dragon]

I doubt I'd choose to use the languages for any real project but there's probably still value in trying C++ to at least see what it's about and what all these newer languages are attempting to replace

[cinder karma]

Hey, Myuu, I'm in python land with badly typed libraries interacting with LabVIEW at the moment

Pretty sure a hammer to the foot is less painful

[safe dragon]

I do dislike Javascript i don't have many good words to say about it

[leaden marsh]

As Elizabeth pointed out, the foot has way too many nerve endings for me to wish a hammer to the foot on my worst enemy

I have to disagree with that one

[cinder karma]

You say that but I have no ide support for something as simple as "who mutates this global?"

(In LabVIEW)

[safe dragon]

don't ask for so much smh

[leaden marsh]

Fair enough, one thing I really appreciated with VS was being able to see all references to a method/variable

[safe dragon]

mutating global variables is bad enough as it is for code maintainability, if you can't even check where it's mutated easily I think I'd cry

[leaden marsh]

It makes the whole "what the heck is this code doing" a lot more convenient

[cinder karma]

Yeah, and I get that in my python too. It's weaker than VS and sometimes misfires but it mostly works well

In LabView I can't even throw my hands up and grep for shit

[leaden marsh]

On the real I still edit any code with Sublime Text & no extensions

[cinder karma]

Vis are binaries

I like VSC. Despite the Microsoft

[crystal wren]

VSCodium exists!

[safe dragon]

our visual basic winforms thing has like over 100 global booleans that are like "handlingPayment" or any other possible state one might express.

A lot of methods have if statements that check like 5+ of them to know what to do

global variables

[cinder karma]

That feels about right for normal code

Tbh

[safe dragon]

it's a disaster that's what it is

making any change to any of these booleans feels like you're jumping into a moat unsure if there's alligators

[leaden marsh]

I get that

[cinder karma]

Yeahhhhh

[leaden marsh]

During 1.6 development, there was this odd bug where, upon reconnecting to the host after disconnecting while in the mines, ||Calico Statue|| effects would trigger

[safe dragon]

it's often incredibly unclear what many of these booleans actually do. They always start simple but then over the decade they got more specific or get weird niche cases where they're ignored or enabled to fix some random other bug...

[cinder karma]

Myuu of course knows that, Furniture.drawingForWorld, FarmerRender.DrawingForUI, all the stardew tool state booleans....

[leaden marsh]

The root cause of the issue is that, for a brief period of time upon connecting, the client thinks Game1.IsMasterGame is true

We just put a bandaid over the symptom, because I have no idea how much code actually relies on Game1.IsMasterGame being true while the client is still connecting

[safe dragon]

yup and then keep making careful patches like that over 17 years

[crystal wren]

My instinct: probably a lot more than you would like.

[cinder karma]

Yeah. Normal software!

[leaden marsh]

I did attach a debugger and determine that it was checked infrequently enough for it to maybe not be an issue to change to be correct

But still, you never know

[cinder karma]

And eventually someone goes "dear lord can we do a rewrite"

[crystal wren]

Management says no.

[safe dragon]

"no we can't the risk is too high and we don't have a test suite"

[cinder karma]

Your engineers cry into their Friday beers

[safe dragon]

our management has this (unfounded) belief that the person who originally wrote our code to determine which discounts to use when scanning products was a genius and doesn't believe that we are capable of achieving the same result in a cleaner way

the discount code is such a massive disaster at this point

but nope do not change it

[crystal wren]

That does definitely sound like a problem that has a singular good solution, of course.

[leaden marsh]

don't you love 10x Engineers who write 10x the code necessary, 10x as fast, causing 10x the problems

[safe dragon]

the guy who originally wrote it is also a gigantic fan of XML so we have some nasty process where the entire transaction is serialized into some handwritten XML monstrosity and then manually read out again by the discount handler to then figure out which discounts to use

[cinder karma]

Oh god

[safe dragon]

to be clear, this discount system is built right into the cash register, he could've literally just passed the transactionitem list directly

but nope it's a fucked up XML creation

[crystal wren]

Huh.

[leaden marsh]

I love XML

[safe dragon]

it's full of bugs too which are then corrected by a post processor to the XML reader that tries to reverse engineer a bunch of information

[crystal wren]

It's slightly reassuring to hear that I could have probably done a better job than someone who was hired as a programmer to write code.

[leaden marsh]

tbf I feel like people these days do the same thing but with JSON

serializing data when it absolutely does not need to be

[safe dragon]

a guy touted to be a programming genius at that

[crystal wren]

I also dislike JSON!

[leaden marsh]

THANK YOU

[crystal wren]

All hail RSON.

[cinder karma]

Toml is pretty good

[crystal wren]

Absolutely abusing my markdown privileges there, yes.

[safe dragon]

json is alright as long as you just use it for what it actually is good at(much like XML for that matter)

[leaden marsh]

Hm.

(Okay actually I don't mind RSON, but I'd appreciate it if Rust game devs did not use it as their config file format)

[safe dragon]

nah they'll use ron

[leaden marsh]

ah YEAH that's the one

[crystal wren]

How badly I want to pull an Ameise and not use JSON for my mods' config files...

[leaden marsh]

I also do not appreciate RON as a config file format

And in a similar vein, Lua being used for config, also not a fan

[cinder karma]

I've been doing configuration files in toml lately

It's nice

[leaden marsh]

I really like TOML

[safe dragon]

I have no strong opinion on configuration file formats

[cinder karma]

"Configuration files" actually they're test protcols

[leaden marsh]

It's similar to what most .cfg or .ini file formats looked like when I was a kid so

I like those the best

[cinder karma]

So I can easily do [[Test]] # pile of test conditions

[safe dragon]

I'll configure everything in vimscript

[leaden marsh]

Honestly I think my biggest qualm with config file formats is that it shouldn't be visually nested

[cinder karma]

Reason why I'm liking toml now tbh

It isn't as indented as json would be

[leaden marsh]

Formats which encourage flat structures will be my favorite for configs

[cinder karma]

• my test files have a lot on them (temperatures, sweep times, voltage limits, current clamps, settling time, etc)

[leaden marsh]

I don't think end users understand (nor need to understand) the nesting of the object

[cinder karma]

It's flexible and I can version control them

[leaden marsh]

TBH I don't even really care if it uses a markup language or known object format at all, it could look like:

forward                 KEY_W                   NULL
backward                KEY_S                   NULL
left                    KEY_A                   NULL
right                   KEY_D                   NULL
jump                    KEY_SPACE               SCROLL_UP
fall                    KEY_LEFT_CONTROL        NULL
run                     KEY_LEFT_SHIFT          NULL
interact                KEY_F                   NULL
ping                    KEY_Z                   NULL
ability_1               KEY_Q                   NULL
ability_2               KEY_E                   MOUSE_BUTTON_5
ability_3               KEY_C                   NULL

and i'd be down for it

if it's flat, and human readable, it's A okay w/ me

[safe dragon]

gonna make a configuration format where anything requires 2 levels of indentation

or more

[crystal wren]

Speaking of indentation, I just discovered Dhall...

[safe dragon]

the entire file will have to be in a
root with everything then indented once into that(whitespace sensitive, only 6 spaces are accepted)

[leaden marsh]

so my disclaimer is that I've started following the Linux kernel style guide and using 8-width indents (set in editor, bc Tabs not Spaces), so looking at heavily nested structures already irks me

[cinder karma]

Hahaha I do four space indents

[safe dragon]

I do 4 as well

[cinder karma]

But also my code recently is conceptually simple tbh

[leaden marsh]

I do four space indents normally yeah

Stardew also uses 4 space character indents for new code

I don't really care about the whole tabs vs spaces debate since any reasonably large project should be using an auto-formatter

[cinder karma]

That reminds me I was gonna set up ruff

[safe dragon]

any reasonable editor automatically does indentation for you when you go to the next line

[cinder karma]

I found that regions work in python

Nice when the file starts off with 8 data classes and four enums tbh

And a NamedTuple

[leaden marsh]

my biggest qualm with Sublime is that it does not recognize the blocks of

#ifdef MACRO_NAME
/* something */
#else
/* something else */
#endif

So I can't just collapse the macro for easy reading

[cinder karma]

Ahhhh that sucks

[leaden marsh]

VS does though, which is nice

[cinder karma]

I do enjoy a nice dataclass

[crystal wren]

Sublime not recognising that is bizarre.

[leaden marsh]

Yeah, I don't know if I have it misconfigured?

I'm going to look into that right now, come to think of it

[cinder karma]

I'm also a massive stickler for making and using enums tbh

I don't want to be passed an int state, let me know my possibilities with good names

[safe dragon]

rust enums my beloved

[leaden marsh]

My only issue with enums (in C) are that the width isn't defined by the standard

[safe dragon]

I introduced an enum recently just to pass it from 1 method to a single other method

[cinder karma]

I was pretty sad to have to int my enums in some recent c#

Because the Volatile library couldn't take enums

[leaden marsh]

Ahhhhh

[safe dragon]

I feel like I'd like it if enums had an implicit conversion to int but maybe that's a bad idea

[leaden marsh]

I'm happy with the ability to cast to int & back easily

[cinder karma]

They actually kinda do haha

At the IL level

Enums are their backing types

[safe dragon]

yeah I just don't like adding (int) in code

[thin estuary]

yeah fuck that

and by "that" i mean "enums being their backing types"

[cinder karma]

I enjoy that

[leaden marsh]

Yeah I enjoy that as well

[cinder karma]

Not really a fan of reference type enums tbh

[leaden marsh]

Ah I was about to ask what the alternative is

[thin estuary]

in general this is sane behavior

caused me too many issues in CC modding though

[cinder karma]

Not that performance even matters in the code I'm writing (I have to insert sleeps to allow my measurements to settle)

[leaden marsh]

damn sorry that reminded me of another reason why i can't believe windows is the standard in gaming

did you know that the sleep timer on Windows by default has a precision of like 15 ms

you can't just sleep for 1 ms

[crystal wren]

Ooh, a thing I actually did know!

[leaden marsh]

Oh my, that was so incredibly frustrating to debug with my engine

[safe dragon]

sleep timers are very inaccurate yeah

[leaden marsh]

I was swapping out Steam's networking library with a hand-rolled networking framework I wrote, but suddenly my game's framerate dropped from 200 FPS+ to like 30 FPS

[safe dragon]

30 fps is good enough time to ship

[leaden marsh]

Because Steam's networking lib added the call to tell windows "hey I want the more accurate timer"

30 FPS (consistently) is good enough to ship, but in 3D it's dizzying when the framepacing is off too

[safe dragon]

definitely, I wasn't really suggesting it lmao

[leaden marsh]

it was so frustrating trying to figure out "what's the difference between the code on Windows vs my Linux machine??"

[leaden marsh]

oh lmao mb

Windows has been a frustrating experience overall for dev'ing C

[crystal wren]

If you just sleep for 800ms every frame, any other timing variances become basically rounding errors.

[leaden marsh]

Banger idea

[crystal wren]

Truly smooth frame times achieved.

[leaden marsh]

Powerpoint truly is the best game engine

[cinder karma]

You say that as a joke but that is literally my current code

15-70ms sleeps everywhere making any performance changes entirely irrelevant

Oh, allocated two strings when I could have done one? Irrelevant. Hit up the dictionary nine times when six would have worked? Irrelevant

[leaden marsh]

surely by sleep you mean

while time_now - time_start < 15:
    pass

[cinder karma]

Nah, straight up calling time.sleep

I just need long enough the measurements settle

[leaden marsh]

i can't believe you don't busy wait

[crystal wren]

No no, surely you would want to add an element to a list every iteration and just count time using those. I call it ListTime.

[cinder karma]

A bit longer doesn't hurt

Would busy waiting be more correct? Yes. Does it matter? No

[safe dragon]

but adding to a list isn't reliably O(1)

gotta initialize the list with a capacity large enough for the maximum ListTime

[cinder karma]

(Technically what I should be doing is polling the measurement repeatedly and waiting for the deviance to fall)

[crystal wren]

While I've been describing monstrosities, I've been doing this monstrosity of an experiment. It's about as broken as I would have hoped.

[leaden marsh]

linked list

i loved being taught about linked lists in school only to find out that when people say "list" they generally mean "array list" because cache coherency actually matters

[cinder karma]

Yup

You've seen the rust linked list ranr

[safe dragon]

functional programming loves linked lists

I however do not

[cinder karma]

https://rust-unofficial.github.io/too-many-lists/

[leaden marsh]

someone could tell me this was written by Atra and I would believe it

did you write this

Mumble mumble kernel embedded something something intrusive

[cinder karma]

No I'm not that smart

[leaden marsh]

i also like that i was taught to implement queues & stacks as linked lists, but in reality it's still basically an array list

i had one class (operating systems) where they actually had us write a queue as a circular buffer

but didn't actually teach us how to do it

which I mean, fair, but I feel like I learned most of my knowledge about data structures from practical, high performance applications

[safe dragon]

I was never taught what a linked list even was in uni

I don't think it was part of the datastructures course at all

[cinder karma]

I can do one but they really aren't preferred anymore unless you're doing some crazy lock free nonsense

[leaden marsh]

i'm grateful for my data structures courses, bc they did in fact teach me a lot

[cinder karma]

And frankly I'm not insane enough for crazy lock free nonsense

[leaden marsh]

and tbf I learned to make an AVL tree with a backing array in those courses

[safe dragon]

linked lists are a necessary evil in functional programming and that's about it

[leaden marsh]

but no one taught me WHY using an array as the backing structure was a good idea

maybe if my degree were computer engineering? idk

[crystal wren]

They're the one course I would take properly in isolation to everything else... because it's absolutely my biggest weakness currently.

[safe dragon]

I remember learning about all sorts of trees in my data structures class that I have not seen even once since then

[cinder karma]

Just do the MIT ocw 6.006 course

It's soooo good

[leaden marsh]

I'm sure if I worked with filesystems more I'd have seen them more frequently

But to this day I have skirted by without knowing how to implement a B-tree

[safe dragon]

when would you ever even implement them yourself beyond incredibly niche scenarios

[crystal wren]

For me, the benefit of knowing these things would be the following ability to be able to figure out "oh hey, I should actually use this rare thing here".

Instead of just bumbling along with a terrible solution because I have no idea about them!

Because currently, I bumble, and I bumble hard.

[safe dragon]

goes through every type of binary tree one by one

[thin estuary]

fwiw, your standard List/Dictionary data structures are good enough for 95% cases

[safe dragon]

it really is

I've seen a lot of code at work though where people use lists still when dictionaries should be used

list lookup is fine if it's only a few elements in size but...

[thin estuary]

oh and (Hash)Set

[cinder karma]

I use 6-32 as the rule of thumb tbh

[leaden marsh]

(I'm very intersted in what this means)

[safe dragon]

easy it's -26

[leaden marsh]

i-

[cinder karma]

If I have a collection of less than six elements it will almost certainly be faster to throw them into a list and straight search

Between 6 and 32 elements it is a tossup

[thin estuary]

why these specific numbers

[leaden marsh]

that bodes well for most palletized data structures i suppose

[safe dragon]

they're nice numbers

[leaden marsh]

easy, because 6 - 32 = -26

[safe dragon]

lmao

I've seen list lookup used for lists with hundreds of elements

[cinder karma]

Empirical really

[leaden marsh]

and i assume above 32, always use a dictionary?

[cinder karma]

Yeah, favor dictionary

[leaden marsh]

i guess it also depends on the frequency in which this is called, and from where

[cinder karma]

Yeah.

Binary search is also an option

[leaden marsh]

for a Minecraft converter thing I worked on, I used gperf to get a perfect hash table for all the string block IDs to a numerical ID

(I could disregard the other information, like waterlogging or block orientation or whatever, so it worked for my purposes)

[safe dragon]

perfectly optimized hash functions

[leaden marsh]

Yeah guaranteed O(1) lookup

[cinder karma]

What's mine craft

[safe dragon]

[leaden marsh]

mince raft is a type of raft used to escape deserted islands, made by packing together the meat of animals

desperate times call for desperate measures

[cinder karma]

Anyways, the c# dictionary does a cool trick where they use a more collision prone but faster hash function on strings unless there are too many collisions

In which case it switches the hash function

[leaden marsh]

just use a trie obviously

what is space complexity

[safe dragon]

idk I'm pretty sure memory is infinite anyway

[cinder karma]

I love tries!

I love it when the c# compiler writes them for me!

(Switching over strings in dotnet8 emits a trie)

[leaden marsh]

that's pretty smart, and really cool tbh

[dapper sinew]

joins server for that emote YOINK

[tough arch]

Lots of mods still needing updated

haha

Glad I use vortex cos I can just click a check for updates button

[supple ether]

oh no not vortex

[tough arch]

I paid for it a long time ago so I'm not worried

[cinder karma]

shoo, on topic!

This is the place we can hide from modding responsibilities

Here, have my meeting sock

[tough arch]

[safe dragon]

the all important meeting sock

[cinder karma]

Aren't the colors pretty???

[umbral pecan]

That’s a great idea. I should totally crochet during meetings.

[leaden marsh]

That's pretty!

[cinder karma]

I only get away with it for online meetings tbh

[digital canyon]

Anyone happen to know how to compile the Machine Interface driver for LLDB on Windows?

[cinder karma]

https://lobste.rs/s/i0jcei/who_s_hiring_q2y2024 huh

[umbral pecan]

Honestly, I might apply. I'm pretty happy with my company rn, but they are paying under the average in my area. Culture is super important to me, but it doesn't hurt to look around.

[woven harness]

does anybody here use microsoft visual studio

[pliant snow]

i think some people here do ye

[digital canyon]

Yep

I assume you do, what language?

[woven harness]

well im trying to learn

c++ right now, i know a bit of html and css

[digital canyon]

Same

Except for the css and html

[woven harness]

i just am wondering why when i try running my code it brings me to microsoft edge instead of runing the code in the terminal

[digital canyon]

What is the extension of the file?

You are running

[woven harness]

let me check

im not seeing one

[pliant snow]

You're writing C++ code?

[woven harness]

it just says file, and yes ive hit the show extensions button

[woven harness]

trying to learn yeah

[digital canyon]

Show me your project settings like linker and stuff

[digital canyon]

Type .cpp at the end

[woven harness]

in file manager or in vs

[digital canyon]

Vs will update it into FS

Either works

[woven harness]

ok ill try

one sec

[digital canyon]

Good?

[woven harness]

not exactly

im trying to screenshot to show

[digital canyon]

Sorry, no rush

[woven harness]

first this comes up

when i try run and debug

[digital canyon]

Type #include <iostream> at the top

[woven harness]

i have that

its hidden by the drop down

[digital canyon]

Oh VS code?

Sorry I just realized

[woven harness]

do you not use it

[digital canyon]

Can you show me verbatim what it says?

I’ve dabbled in it

[pliant snow]

Im looking at your errors at the bottom

[digital canyon]

But I used Visual Studio more

[digital canyon]

Check ur environmental variables

[woven harness]

whats the difference

[pliant snow]

Open that launch.json file they suggest

[woven harness]

what are those

[digital canyon]

Visual studio code is more of an IDE, the full package

VS Code is like a flushed out text editor

[woven harness]

oh

[pliant snow]

They're completely different programs, despite the similar names

[digital canyon]

Kinda like notepad++

[pliant snow]

But they do the same in the end, its more about their features

[woven harness]

and i have the bottom or top

[pliant snow]

Bottom

[digital canyon]

gimme a sec

[pliant snow]

Open your launch.json, i think that might be incorrectly set up

[woven harness]

also i am trying to learn but cant really find stuff, how did you guys learn

[woven harness]

ill try

[pliant snow]

Lots of googling lol

[woven harness]

seems rather tedious

[pliant snow]

What did you do to build the code also?

[woven harness]

like to figure out what to do?

[pliant snow]

It can be. The secret is the more you write the more you can look back at your old stuff

[leaden marsh]

The launch.json seems to have the exact string enter program name, for example C:\Users\my pc\Documents\New folder\a.exe

[cinder karma]

I've never done c++ on windows

[leaden marsh]

You gotta drop the enter program name, for example part, that's not supposed to be part of the text

[cinder karma]

But back in the old days I recall just running gcc from termknal

[woven harness]

oh

where would i change that

[pliant snow]

Theres two steps to running c++ code. First you have to turn the code into a windows exe, then you have to run it

[leaden marsh]

In launch.json

[pliant snow]

Your launch.json file will do the second atep

Idk how you did the first step, but it would be helpful to know

[leaden marsh]

Assuming you're using mingw or a similar toolchain that's pretty nice

[woven harness]

in the video i watched he just added .cpp and it ran in the terminal of vs code

[digital canyon]

That can work well

[digital canyon]

There is a bunch of setup in VS Code

[leaden marsh]

Can you link the video tutorial you're trying to follow?

[pliant snow]

Ah, thats good. What did you type into the terminal?

[woven harness]

i did get a bunch of c++ extensions

nothing

i followed what he did and he didn t type anything i dont think

but imma double check now that you mention it

[pliant snow]

He may have set up a task or something instead

[digital canyon]

For your question abt Visual Studio vs Visual Studio Code, left vs right

[woven harness]

i have the one on the right

[pliant snow]

Visual studio code is more beginner friendly imo

[digital canyon]

Hard disagree

[woven harness]

so vs code is preschool to vs or what

[digital canyon]

for cpp at least

[digital canyon]

nah, they are different

[woven harness]

oh mb

[digital canyon]

VSC is more basic

[woven harness]

what would you recomend

[digital canyon]

it's like a fancy text editor

do you plan on doiong a lot of programming?

[woven harness]

yeah, thats why i want to learn it

[digital canyon]

(and with others or not, and commerically or not, etc)

[pliant snow]

They just have different features. I use vscode at work for c++, while some coworkers use visual studio, its just prefernce

[woven harness]

i just want to find an understandable way to learn

[digital canyon]

I started with VSC, changed to VS

It sets up a lot of the stuff for you if you choose the right workload

[woven harness]

so should i just stick with vsc until i have a semi decent grasp on c++

[digital canyon]

ure

Sure

[leaden marsh]

Whatever works for you

I don't even use VS or VSC for C++ on Windows

[digital canyon]

Codeblocks?

[woven harness]

what do you use

[leaden marsh]

No

[digital canyon]

lol

[pliant snow]

Anyway, first step is to turn your code into an exe. The exact steps to do that depends on what build program ("compiler") you have installed

[leaden marsh]

I just use Sublime pretty much

[digital canyon]

nice

[cinder karma]

Sublime is pretty good

I was a vim and command line kid

[leaden marsh]

I do use the Visual Studio compiler though, MSVC

[leaden marsh]

Same

[woven harness]

like the gdb/llbd?

[digital canyon]

no

[leaden marsh]

gdb is a debugger

[digital canyon]

those are debuggers

[woven harness]

oh

[digital canyon]

it's like gcc.exe, cl.exe

[pliant snow]

That program is called a debugger. It will show you information about the program as its running to help fix issues

[digital canyon]

clang.exe(if anyone can help me with the LLVM stuff)

[woven harness]

oh

[digital canyon]

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/languages/cpp

Check this, I remember it worked

[woven harness]

ok

thanks

[digital canyon]

What compiler are you using out of curiousity?

[woven harness]

to be honest i didnt know i needed one

i started cpp last night

[digital canyon]

ah

fair

[woven harness]

but i rocked html in school

yeah

[digital canyon]

actually that's a bad way of putting it(or not idk HTML)

C++ compiles into bytecode

[woven harness]

all i know is thats how you view it and see if its working or not

[digital canyon]

there are many compilers to choose from but some main ones I know are GCC(MINGW on Windows), Clang(LLVM toolset), CL(MSVC)

Do you have one installed rn?

[woven harness]

not that im aware of

i just got to that part on the site

[digital canyon]

ah ok

[woven harness]

it says gcc is linux

is for*

[digital canyon]

kinda

MINGW is the version for Windows

[leaden marsh]

There's a gcc version for Windows, as part of the mingw toolset

[woven harness]

oh i see

im getting mingw rn

its saying "the install directory is completely deleted" or will be deleted. what does that mean

[digital canyon]

Can you send a screeny?

Sorry for the lacking advice I'm trying to remember VSC lol

[digital canyon]

Select a new folder

[woven harness]

youre all good, its nice to have any help at all

[digital canyon]

Make a new one

[woven harness]

ok

[digital canyon]

Do not do that

[woven harness]

ok

wait

huh

[digital canyon]

BRB in like a minute or two

[woven harness]

ok

[digital canyon]

Wait what are you installing?

MSYS?

[woven harness]

yeah

thats what the website brought me to for mingw

[digital canyon]

Do you understand what MSYS2 is?

[woven harness]

if it isnt a compiler no

[digital canyon]

MSYS2 is "MSYS2 is a collection of tools and libraries providing you with an easy-to-use environment for building, installing and running native Windows software."

[woven harness]

oh

[digital canyon]

The tutorial

works

[woven harness]

oooooohh

[digital canyon]

Just make sure you know what you are installing before it happens

[woven harness]

the tutorial says to install msys2 and then install mingw through it

[digital canyon]

That absolutely works

[woven harness]

and if i install msys2 into a brand new file nothing can go wrong?

[digital canyon]

(just please make sure you know what you are installing, very imporatant)

[digital canyon]

A new folder yea

but make sure it's empt or it will erase everything

now BRB in 5

[woven harness]

thats what its been telling me

[woven harness]

okie

[digital canyon]

Back

[woven harness]

ok

im currently insalling MSYS2 onto a completely new folder

and im gunna run the code to instal mingw

[digital canyon]

K

Ping me when ur done

[woven harness]

installed it all good but

[digital canyon]

Restart visual studio

Then show me the files structure again please

[woven harness]

what do you mean by files structure

like in file manager?

[digital canyon]

Click the top tab on the left

[woven harness]

this is after i restarted and tried running again

[digital canyon]

Delete .vscofe for now

[woven harness]

ok

also got rid of the one file that wasnt a cpp beacuse it was empty and i made it while trying to figure this out

[digital canyon]

Something like this should be the only file rn

Click this

[woven harness]

2 of the g++ ones come up for me

[digital canyon]

show me

[digital canyon]

Top one

[woven harness]

i hit one and then it made a .json

[digital canyon]

Nope

My

[woven harness]

or idk if it made it but one appeared

[digital canyon]

bottom one mb

[woven harness]

ok i did and it brought back the vscode folder

[digital canyon]

This is my tasks

They are all same I think

[woven harness]

yea

mines same as that

[digital canyon]

Honestly I would try to verify compiler files and check stuff like that

[woven harness]

vs code seems like its gatekeeping coding from me

[digital canyon]

From this point I don’t think I can do much

It’s so much easier with python on vscode

[woven harness]

yeah

maybe ill switch code editors that im using

[digital canyon]

Maybe

[woven harness]

well

[digital canyon]

If you need any more help, feel free to dm? Dunno

Best wishes

[woven harness]

yeah, ill look into other ones because i havent even been able to try acual code yet

i really appreciate your help though

[digital canyon]

np

[woven harness]

thanks a bunch

[digital canyon]

peace

[woven harness]

(idk why frog)

peace

[digital canyon]

hehe

[hard arch]

Why do SVE Wizard needs to be Magnus (as in a separated char)
It breaks some portraits mods so much aaaAAAAAAA

I know how to fix it, but not everyone does
Especially if they don't know much about computers, they will get scared to edit/ will accidentally break the mod even more when "fixing" the code

[woven harness]

@digital canyon so last night I downloaded VS to see it, and I tried my piece of code and ran it. It ran immediately and I only needed to spend a minute total figuring it out and it worked

[digital canyon]

Noice

[pliant snow]

I wonder if that's because MSVC installed with it

[safe dragon]

could very well be

visual studio loads your pc up with all sorts of stuff immediately

[pliant snow]

I have it on my work machine just to manage msvc lol

[safe dragon]

I have it on my work machine... cause I use visual studio

[pliant snow]

i also have at least two different editions of visual studio to go along with it

[safe dragon]

me too

wait no, 3

2019, 2022 and 2022 preview

[pliant snow]

i have 2017 and 2019 lol

[safe dragon]

still using the 32 bit versions

[pliant snow]

I just let the toolchain people tell me what they want me to use

[cinder karma]

I'm enjoying toml over json tbh

[umbral pecan]

It’s the age old question of better design/ease of use vs what has actually been adopted and has large community support

[pliant snow]

For configuration stuff, I vastly prefer yaml or toml than json these days

[safe dragon]

I'm learning people have strong opinions about the format used in config files

I don't think I've ever cared

just property name and then the value and that's essentially the config file done

idk what kind of complicated configuration files people are dealing with

[umbral pecan]

Have you ever used something like docker compose or AWS CloudFormation? You can basically manage entire backend setups just through the config files.

[safe dragon]

yeah my home server uses a docker compose file

[pliant snow]

my opinion is entirely based on the fact that json doesn't allow comments

[safe dragon]

fair

I feel like the appsettings.json in asp.net projects does support comments though...

hmm maybe it doesn't

[pliant snow]

i mean, it really supports whatever its library does. There is a version of json that does support comments, but many of the standard json libraries don't seem to support it

[safe dragon]

right

in my mind almost all configuration file standards are essentially the same thing with slight variations. Sometimes there's nesting and sometimes that nesting uses whitespace and other times braces... Some other formats have like [[thing]] header section things

it just doesn't really matter in my eyes they all essentially do the same thing and you look at it maybe a few times in your entire project's lifespan

I don't think I do anything with the config files at work beyond changing what environment I need

and then there's the ones like docker-compose.yml of azure-pipelines.yml which you just essentially set up once and then don't look at again for 3 years

I guess the only config files I really work with that I open more often are the init.lua for neovim and the hyprland config

but honestly I'd hardly call neovim's config file a config file anymore

it's a whole ass programming language pretending to be a config file

[marble jewel]

content.json would like to speak with you

[safe dragon]

what's a content.json referring to

[marble jewel]

Oh wait, you're not a modder

Content Patcher's content format is json, but it encodes a lot of programming-like constructs

[safe dragon]

that sounds like something I would not be a fan of

[marble jewel]

Like, I'm pretty sure Content Patcher is turing complete

[safe dragon]

I'm looking at it now and it gives me the shivers

this is using json like it's a programming language but worse

I'm sure there's a good reason this came to be

and not all modders are programmers

[marble jewel]

It's a gateway for content creators to learn programming

Except, programming makes sense to me, but Content Patcher still confuses me sometimes

[safe dragon]

I assume this is primarily intended just for stuff like portrait mods or extra dialogue

[marble jewel]

It can edit anything in SDV's content pipeline

Artwork, data models, music, maps

[pliant snow]

edit out CA

we're in charge here now

[cinder karma]

Oh God what did I start

[safe dragon]

how big are some of these content patcher jsons

[cinder karma]

Crumble, uh

20k lines?

[sand frost]

A few thousand lines

Depends

[safe dragon]

ah it's not as bad as our MainForm of the cash register so it's all ok

[sand frost]

I have one I generate with a Matlab script that’s about 3000 lines iirc

Does that make you feel better? 😂

[cinder karma]

Anyways, crumble, I need to know if opengl has issues with modern Intel processors

[safe dragon]

that sounds incredibly unlikely

[sand frost]

I’m not convinced CP is Turing complete but I’d also have to remember the definition of Turing complete

[safe dragon]

it's not all that difficult to technically be turing complete

[sand frost]

There’s various specific things about self-referencing that im not sure are possible

Though I guess you can define variables and do arithmetic

[marble jewel]

Microsoft Excel formulas are turing complete

[safe dragon]

doesn't need to be ergonomic or in any case remotely reasonable to be turing complete

[sand frost]

If you’re willing to ignore the useless nature of focusing solely on complex configs and not on the actual functionality I guess

[cinder karma]

Ahhhhh

[marble jewel]

Some examples thanks to wikipedia

[sand frost]

Hmm this is why I never made it as a mathematician

Too grumpy about practical applications

[safe dragon]

habbo hotel lmao

[cinder karma]

Work cad software crashed three times due to opengl issues yesterday

[sand frost]

That’s a scary sentence

[safe dragon]

is it an old version of opengl or new

"new"

[sand frost]

Admittedly I used to work on cad that would crash about once an hour due to sharing an IP address between 6 computers

[cinder karma]

Uh, new probably????

I'm pulling driver updates for it

IT says try X not Wayland if problems continue

[safe dragon]

ah

[pliant snow]

im going to say that probably wont help

but then again they are black boxes of mystery

[safe dragon]

I find it highly unlikely for intel processors to have issues with opengl of all things but I'm no graphics programmer

idk what software it is but it's probably running in an XWayland instance anyway

[cinder karma]

Thank you!

I'm hoping it's just driver jank

It wasn't doing this last week smh

[dapper sinew]

just putting this out there... ts is hard

making a discord bot and i STILL cant fully code on my own and this is rough

[lethal walrus]

dw i learnt js through writing a discord bot

they're not a bad starting point

[dapper sinew]

i can understand a bit thankfully

but so much RED

and chatgpt(cause i need help) is busted right now :(

[pliant snow]

I find chatgpt to lead me down bad avenues than it is a help lol

[dapper sinew]

it does go insane a bit, but its better than nothing since i have no teacher right now

if i had someone to guide me i wouldnt need it

sadly youtube videos expect you to already know most of the stuff they talk about as well

[lethal walrus]

assuming discord.js, they have great examples

[dapper sinew]

yeah its that plus my own api stuff, i had someone coding all this stuff for me but they wanted to take a break from coding so now im starting from scratch

[pliant snow]

Discord bots are nice tho as youre really just reacting to some event thats happened, and you can sign up to handle more or less of them as you go

[dapper sinew]

i actually have no clue if this is api stuff, i have no clue what any of this stuff actually is, but im slowly making the reds go down

but like.... how does one fix this
Property 'payload' does not exist on type 'never'.ts(2339)
(i have so many of these)

[pliant snow]

Im not super familiar with typescript, but I think that means that the type of that object could potentially be never, which understandably wont have a payload property. You could do something like checking that the variable isnt never (and handle it as needed if it is)

[dapper sinew]

hmm, i shall try that, provided i figure out how to do that. also yay! down to 50

[lethal walrus]

variable as unknown as any

is the easy fix

if you want to, you can actually write types for your API

[safe dragon]

I'd have thought they provided a base project that essentially had a simple hello world type situation ready and done as is

in an examples folder or something

[lethal walrus]

i think this is from the API integration stuff

not the library

[dapper sinew]

i think thats what they did

i know i had to make imports from scratch cause the code wasnt happy with importing stuff from discord.js

it took,,, forever

[lethal walrus]

djs has amazing docs, sapphire from my quick look has great ones too

[lethal walrus]

are you trying to migrate the code?

[dapper sinew]

yeah, what i can at least, im doing a massive refactor and breakdown

[safe dragon]

god javascript project config files have gotten out of hand

[dapper sinew]

but trying to keep already made code so long as it works

[lethal walrus]

that seems like not a great idea when you don't understand the language

[dapper sinew]

i understand it enough to read, but not write

and yeah its a really bad idea, yet im determined to make it work

trail by fire sort of thing

(deletes system32 by accident)

[pliant snow]

What do you want it to do?

[dapper sinew]

uh, let me check it

looks like its the command checker part of the code, i could send a snippet but eh. wont unless someone asks

[lethal walrus]

if it's not too long sure

[dapper sinew]

its checking if the prefix is met or if a slash command is used, then it does things

[pliant snow]

I meant the bot in general i guess

[dapper sinew]

ohhh

its a general chat bot, using my AI, it can also be used for moderation eventually and just to have fun with

[dapper sinew]

oop gtg be back in a bit to complain more

[lethal walrus]

Change event: never to event: any in the args

[safe dragon]

is never an actual valid type

it sounds more like it'd be an extreme version of void. Not only doesn't it return anything it will just never return...

[lethal walrus]

It is

idk what it's used for but it is

Notably, you cannot cast it to any, you must go to unknown first

[safe dragon]

my only guess is functions that only ever throw exceptions since that's the only scenario I know of where a function would fail to return

strange to treat it as a type

but it's something

[pliant snow]

That sounds like a hack lol

[safe dragon]

I can't imagine they actually want you to do that

[lethal walrus]

Probably not

[safe dragon]

looking at some docs the examples they give are functions that throw exceptions or functions that loop forever

bit of a weird one

there's cases for functions that never end for the entire runtime of the program I suppose

not a blocking function though I hope...

[dapper sinew]

thats just what my ide put there

so i trusted it

[safe dragon]

is this a programmer

they look tired

long day at work huh

[dapper sinew]

my when i code for 5 minutes:

[cinder karma]

All meetings and no code make Bella an....actually she'd be happy

She loves people

Me on the other hand am looking forward to a solid evening of getting shit done

[dapper sinew]

aaaaaaaaaaaaa

i put in the work(and so did AI)

sadly thats my limit even with AI

[cinder karma]

Pylance thinks my string literals are undefined variables?

[pliant snow]

Tell pylance to mind its own business

[strange copper]

i mean are they warnings or are they errors

[dapper sinew]

Errors

[cyan shadow]

Bella!!!!
I hope she's doing okay

[cinder karma]

She's doing somewhat better!

[cyan shadow]

I'm glad to hear that!

[umbral pecan]

github copilot is fun, I'm pretty new to c# and I was able to get it to rewrite my loops and if statements to all use chained c# functions. I know it doesn't mean necessarily "better" code but it's great for learning

// ORIGINAL
foreach (GiantCrop giantCrop in location.resourceClumps.OfType<GiantCrop>()) {
    Monitor.Log($"Found big version of {giantCrop.GetData()?.FromItemId}", LogLevel.Trace);
    string? item_key = giantCrop.GetData()?.FromItemId;
    if (item_key != null) {
        // Note the key is the source items id (e.g. Melon is '(O)254')
        if (cropTypeCounts.ContainsKey(item_key)) {
            cropTypeCounts[item_key]++;
        } else {
            cropTypeCounts[item_key] = 1;
        }
    }
}
// REPLACEMENT
cropTypeCounts = location.resourceClumps
    .OfType<GiantCrop>()
    .Select(giantCrop => giantCrop.GetData()?.FromItemId)
    .Where(itemKey => itemKey != null)
    .GroupBy(itemKey => itemKey)
    .ToDictionary(group => group.Key!, group => group.Count());

[cinder karma]

Yeah it tells you to do that but doesn't mention it is pretty bad performance wise

I had to rip all that pretty out

[thin estuary]

it's rarely noticeable

[sand frost]

Something something linq being slow?