42.12.3 Unstable Released

[willow fjord]

Wrong

[summer solstice]

I have never been wrong about a release ever

[hearty beacon]

we need more trrash tiles!!!

more trash !!!!

[hearty beacon]

also , i made a cluck chair to watch my chickens

[gusty minnow]

I laughed too hard at this

[hearty beacon]

lol

[left path]

I did, the answer was that they only work for money, so money was spent

They were good enough at coding though, so money well spent regardless

[mental sail]

Paying a sex worker to help me clear out Crossroads Mall

[hearty beacon]

rofl

[gusty minnow]

👀 I'm not a sex worker, but $20 is $20

let's squash zombie brains

❤️

[lavish sentinel]

Before or after though, that's the real question

[azure ember]

Did you offer your service to them? Maybe they need something programmed

[hearty beacon]

lol yea programmed

[proud silo]

Am I getting really lucky or is McCoy Logging Co trucks just the best way for sledgehammers. Out of 4 of the vans I looted I got 2

Not 2 in that van, just accumulating them in the one

[midnight pike]

great sledgehammer drought has ended, and that is good

[slow locust]

did u find any firefight axe in the vans in there?

[proud silo]

Sorry for late reply, I found the axes in my bag there, but only those 2 so far. I haven't looted the far building yet, but my haul of resources is already looking good so I won't go looking for more axes inthe looted building floor loot

[slow locust]

i was thinking to report this as a bug cause in those vans should actually spawn a wood axe more than a firefighteraxe, the firefighter axe should spawn in the ranger vans.....

[proud silo]

I mean I agree, but I think its better put as a suggestion.

[wintry bison]

I dream of a chainsaw one day haha

[proud silo]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Chainsaw

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/the-fresh-prince-of-bel-air-will-smith-shocked-surprised-yikes-gif-5227254

[proud silo]

Last worked on in b41 means that its probably a very low priority

[final lantern]

😮

[proud silo]

Does anyone know if there is any good loot to be had at MadDan's Den? Or is it just good for bases built from scratch for furniture?

[hearty beacon]

yah theres tools in there in the back bottom floor

[proud silo]

Is there any way to check vehicle spawns for specialised vans? I don't intend on visiting the place soon but would be good to know anyways. Thanks for your help.

I can see zones for spawns, but can I access specific numbers?

[hearty beacon]

That im not too sure about that stuff, not sure how that works i sorry. Could try the b42 pz chat , cant remember what cars i have seen there besides ordinary ones

Next time i go there ill look and see

[proud silo]

Alright. Thank you for your help. Have a good day.

[hearty beacon]

You too!

[proud silo]

We need the trilogy

[hearty beacon]

Can we make signs like that?!

[rapid beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/lobster-blue-lobster-bluelobster-funny-gore-gif-10055099326853271144

[proud silo]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Wooden_Sign Says it's only for symbols, but the wiki page for it is still B41 so maybe now we can?

[rapid beacon]

@TheIndieStone where is the update that will fix B42? ? ?

Hire a mystic to figure it out

[proud silo]

Fix B42 in what way?

[proud silo]

Also is that your intro message for every server?

[jaunty vale]

It's a shame that we can't use (and build) those tiles as liquid containers

[wintry bison]

This week will be 6 weeks I predict a new major update this week

https://tenor.com/view/good-luck-kiddo-good-luck-good-luck-the-oracle-gif-13423931645834882361

[tidal maple]

It's been 11 days since the last patch....

[proud silo]

https://tenor.com/view/ineedit-needit-spongebob-squarepants-need-it-gif-4883495

[wintry bison]

I mean major versions haha OBVIOUSLY

https://tenor.com/view/silly-goose-gif-27280133

[proud silo]

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-satisfies-you-leatherneck-gi-joe-a-real-american-hero-arise-serpentor-arise-hard-to-please-gif-17522149

[atomic scroll]

I've been enjoying a nice amount of Stalker and Arc Raiders while patiently waiting for the next patch

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/bow-arrow-shoot-bow-bow-and-arrow-shooting-bow-gif-20554959

I thirst for the bow

[gilded moat]

i am pretty positive they are actual tiles

as in made in photoshop and imported into the game

[chilly oasis]

I am a bit disappointed because me and my friends are waiting for build 42 to play together (we can but I cba with steam play and trying to get a server up)

[quiet olive]

when mp

any updates on the progress ?

[atomic scroll]

it's been ittirated multiple times, there will be no ETA

[gusty minnow]

Ready when it's ready

[atomic scroll]

read the last blog post , where it has yet again,been ittirated

[wintry bison]

Anyone else think it would be cool if they had the audio team create like 5-6 generic songs for each style of music and add actual music that you can play similar to the True Music mod? Sort of like the sims when you turn on the different radio stations

[frozen hill]

smelt large steel item, i will get blacksmith skill for smelting it?

[quiet olive]

when mp
any updates on the progress ?

[mental sail]

Well, it's fine that they don't want to give us an Eta, but at the very least an estimated time of arrival for the mammoth update would be appreciated.

[quiet olive]

when mp
any updates on the progress ?

[gusty minnow]

That would be pretty neat, also make instruments work without a mod would be really cool too, that would give the audio team even more things they could come up with (plus allow for modding new songs in)

[gusty minnow]

https://projectzomboid.com/blog/news/2025/10/since-last-we-spoke/

[wintry bison]

Thats what I thought! Not to take away from the amazing work they've been doing with ambient and environemntal sounds and the cinematic music, which is awesome, but they will run out of that eventually haha. I feel like the amount of instruments that exist implies a system of music playing is planned but obviously taking a backseat to other stuff rn

[gusty minnow]

100%! I am someone who plays without music on (sorry audio team) because I like to hear the atmosphere they have built, I find it really immersive. So being able to pull that into the world and not having it on top of it (if that makes sense) would be really huge for me

[wintry bison]

Yeah - I like the music, but i'd love for actual music similar to true music that is emitted by certain devices and is directional etc. You can play songs manually obviously but sometimes you can't hear the atmosphere (or a zombie behind you lol) so true music is great, but it keeps giving errors. Would be great to have something like that be vanilla (but obviously they shouldn't spend money licensing actual songs imo)

[gusty minnow]

❤️ would be amazing

[wintry bison]

They should make a spiffo jingle that plays in all the restaurants lmao

[gusty minnow]

[hearty beacon]

deck the halls with spiffo balls

[gusty minnow]

🟢 🔴

[wintry bison]

fa la la la, the sauce is fine

don't look at the ingredients

fa la la la, FDA's fine

[hearty beacon]

can you draw pictures to go with this

yaya make a comic

[gusty minnow]

careful

[hearty beacon]

get dat out of my pz discord!!

[errant pulsar]

<@&671452400221159444>

❤️

Spiffobot doesnt like my DMs 😔

[sharp laurel]

?

[errant pulsar]

someone posted silly politics into our very serious chat

[gusty minnow]

it was deleted it seems, sorry to bother you

[hearty beacon]

lol

[gusty minnow]

they are scared of the puppers bark 😉

https://tenor.com/view/bulldog-puppy-bark-funny-animals-funny-dog-gif-12300642

[hearty beacon]

im that

[gusty minnow]

now that I think about it, I have never seen one of those sticking out of the ground

it is usually attached to a wall

[errant pulsar]

[wintry bison]

Aw what happened I missed it

[boreal lantern]

Why tho, why not on the wall

[hearty beacon]

thats you

get it

[wintry bison]

How did they even get that into the tile

[midnight pike]

wtb door stoppers for zomboid so zeds won't somehow blast a full door into tiny pieces

[wintry bison]

Is it considered political if I say that I always burn down the scarlet oak distillery because bourbon is yucky and rye is the best

[hearty beacon]

[wintry bison]

well scotch is the best... but rye is second best

[mental sail]

Rum ftw

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-sparrow-rhum-is-good-pirates-of-the-caribbean-johnny-depp-gif-13219281

[carmine heath]

nice lol

[wintry bison]

When is the next patch oh oracle

[hearty beacon]

lol

[midnight pike]

you drink something higher tech than bacteria-infested water from a pool where mammoths took a shit in?

[mental sail]

You don't need tech to make booze, you metal-user

The bacteria adds flavor

[midnight pike]

did you carve a rock into a barrel? or perhaps just wood? with what? your nails?

[mental sail]

Hole in the ground, filled with crushed sugarcane and covered with a tar-treated piece of wood

Don't ask me how to distill it, I'm working on that in my head

[lavish sentinel]

how does animal tracking work? I walked around the woods using foraging with animal tracks selected and only found typical foraging loot. Do I need to start tracking when I see an actual animal?

[alpine tree]

you must consume the dung

[midnight pike]

I've found animal tracks with foraging so that should work, suppose if there's no wild animals nearby, you won't find tracks?

[lavish sentinel]

ah, like that

[wintry bison]

From what I understand, animal tracking just reveals clues along the pre-determined path that the animals spawn with. So for example, for arguments sake, imagine a game started with a migration path for deer from brandenburg to muldraugh. Using tracking will reveal animal clues along that path, and it will tell you how recently they made them. But it still only reveals clues if you happen upon one of their randomized and predetermined tracks

so in theory you could find a track and then follow it along the map making arrows as it changes direction to map the whole thing out

@lavish sentinel

if I remember correctly they were looking into more engaging version of this but for now every game starts with many randomized paths that animals will spawn and move along infinitely

[lavish sentinel]

oh I see

[wintry bison]

Personally I think a system similar to RDR2 but harder and more complex would be interesting - make it spawn an animal when you start tracking, and you need to follow the tracks without revealing yourself. Lower level tracking might lose the trail (and despawn the animal), and lower level stealth makes it harder to follow without revealing yourself (by snapping twigs etc)

[lavish sentinel]

so the animals migrate on rails and the tracks tell you if you're along the rails

and how feint they are tells you how recently the animals have been there

[wintry bison]

Would make the system more engaging while simulataneously making stealth more useful

Yeah exactly

somew ill actually say like 'recent' or something too, like poop

[lavish sentinel]

yeah I found a herd of deer and when foraging near where they ran off from I found droppings

[wintry bison]

honestly all I do for hunting is go for drives and mark anywhere I see deer on the road. Then when I want to hunt I go to all those places and more often than not find a deer

[lavish sentinel]

how often do deer survive a bullet? and is there a way to track a bleeding deer that's been shot once?

[wintry bison]

At lower level aiming, most of the time, by they die fast and leave an obvious blood trail

somewhere around 5 aiming with a 788 and 8x scope they started dying right away

[lavish sentinel]

gotcha

[wintry bison]

it seems like you basically dont miss, but sometimes it hits the wrong deer haha

I was trying to only kill bucks and smoked a fawn once haha

[lavish sentinel]

this save I'm going up to Louisville so I probably won't do much hunting tbh

maybe the forest east/southeast of Louisville has some deer? we'll see

[midnight pike]

wait, bullet wounds actually bleed for animals, taking damage over time?

[wintry bison]

I think the system I proposed would work well - tracking is what spawns the animal and determines how far away it is and whether you might lose the trail and despawn it. Stealth is what lets you stalk it without alerting it, and aiming is what lets you kill it without wounding it and chasing it for a while. There could still be the rare sighting without tracking but it should be very infrequent.

[wintry bison]

They don't seem to 'wound' them so much as they start a countdown timer for when they will bleed out, like if you hit them they are gonna die pretty soon just they will run for a bit

higher aiming seems to lower that time until it is instant

but starting as a cop and hunting about 20 in this run I never missed once, it just took more or less time for them to die (and they started dying right away around aiming 5)

[midnight pike]

well thats cool, hitting them leads to a kill instead of wounded deer just fucking off to the sunset

[wintry bison]

yeah I have never had one get further than like 20-30 feey

[midnight pike]

uff, urge to play again is rising

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/doja-cat-star-wars-gif-25078126

What does the rabbit say about the next update

[midnight pike]

clearly, a demanding stare

getting fatter, because I have too much time to give her snacks, and too little time playing PZ

latter mostly because trying to wait until stable

[wintry bison]

Devs how can you keep stable from a face like that?

[midnight pike]

only NasKo loves Luna officially

[wintry bison]

They should add a rare, immortal rabbit to the game named luna

[midnight pike]

would imagine the flow of "small requests" coming after that if such would happen

[hearty beacon]

yes

[midnight pike]

maybe if I was actually famous

[wintry bison]

Hahahah right

you are famous to us

[hearty beacon]

ya youre one of us

[midnight pike]

Luna's sister however would be almost like the rabbit in Monty Python, charges at you

lots of pent-up rage

[wintry bison]

Hahahaha and you need a holy hand grenade

[midnight pike]

holy hand pipebomb

now if PZ had Puppers-rat that follow you...

portable fresh food source

[wintry bison]

Hahah its the holy pipebomb of muldraugh!

I want them to add a renaissance faire that was happening when the apocalypse hit, where you can pickup reproduction medieval armors and weapons

[midnight pike]

mmm like the stalls in my city during medieval faire...

a real blacksmith forging weaponry

[wintry bison]

There is a blacksmith at the wild west town in the game already

and you can get fake cap guns haha, but obv they werent making cool arms/armor

[midnight pike]

really need to visit that place one day, a pity there's no civil war era clothing, could reform the US and fortifying a small camp

[wintry bison]

theres some unique clothes there at least, racoon hats and top hats, snakeskin boots etc

[midnight pike]

hmm raccoon hat would do

a pioneer of Neo-America

needs horses for late-lategame travel

[wintry bison]

I want horses and bows more than I want MP

[midnight pike]

would be a welcome addition given it's getting closer to 2026

[wintry bison]

bows at least are semi confirmed, horses are just tantalizingly teased for post-b42 I assume becasue there are multiple empty horse locations with stalls, like a racetrack and a pony ride place

and a horse trailer

I assume they want some NPC code for horses like dogs, since they have some affection and obey commands

[midnight pike]

bows have to come simply because full wilderness gameplay is not possible without ranged weaponry against deer. Good luck stabbing deer 8+ times to kill them, while attracting every zed nearby, wounding yourself on trees etc...

[wintry bison]

Yeah for sure

also food preservation. My hope is the timed action system that is working well for leather drying is going to be used for some preservation stuff like meat drying, brewing etc

in b42 that is

[lavish sentinel]

istg if they add bows they better make strength a major requirement for using them

[midnight pike]

the game has all the base mechanics for such primitive gameplay, tracking, foraging, sourcing natural materials for most things

[lavish sentinel]

I'm tired of games saying that anorexic sneaky sneaks are the best bow users

(compound bows would be great to alleviate that)

[midnight pike]

I'm gonna beat the dead horse once again and say that if zeds can smash a stone wall, every human must be strong enough even at 0 STR to use a bow...

[wintry bison]

Hahaha

[wintry bison]

Crossbows too I assume

[lavish sentinel]

I'd assume that an average nerd can get more poundage out of like a goats foot crossbow than a bow though

simply due to crossbows having mechanical advantage

[wintry bison]

Yeah thats what a meant, they'd be good for weaker peeps

[lavish sentinel]

tbf this is one of the few games where compound bows actually make sense to add

[wintry bison]

sorry quoted the wrong message haha

[lavish sentinel]

and there are compound crossbows too

[wintry bison]

Yeah I agree it would be cool!

And retain some reason for looting a bow vs just making one

[lavish sentinel]

fletching would be a good way to make you need chickens

maybe they'll add injection molding to make plastic fletching? but that's far fletched (haha)

[wintry bison]

Yeah I already have 1000+ feathers now haha

[midnight pike]

all the hundreds of feathers from a single chicken!

[wintry bison]

far fletched haha

[midnight pike]

fletching reminds me I got Fletching skill level 99 as my first 99 in Runescape long ago

[lavish sentinel]

fighting zombies with any kind of bow would still suck though, think of how physically demanding that would be lol

[midnight pike]

so bows are clearly a passion thing

[lavish sentinel]

like how many arrows would it take to take down one zombie

but they are not guns for a reason

speaking of which, we need muskets!

literal kentucky rifles

[midnight pike]

bows affected more by endurance, slower rate of fire

ammunition more pain in the ass to make (although yeah bullets are probably insanely annoying to make, if even possible atm), so you'd retrieve them when not broken

[hearty beacon]

muscle strain 500% lol

[lavish sentinel]

I still think a realistic way of making like nitrocellulose ammunition would be cool

maybe it would degrade and not last like pre-zombie ammo

if I were in a zombie apocalypse that's what I owuld try to do

probably blow myself up in the process

[midnight pike]

ah yes a musket with 30 second reload time

[lavish sentinel]

skill based reload speed

wait...

the reloading skill, duh

oh also PSA for people speedrunning blacksmithing:

it makes a difference

[wintry bison]

If you go to guns umlimited there is backroom with tons of unique looking industrial equipment, im hoping it might have something to do with gunsmithing / bulletmaking eventually

[wintry bison]

omg lol thats smart

[lavish sentinel]

firepits are actually really nice in general. They don't spread flames (at least I haven't tried them indoors so maybe that would cause a fire) and are otherwise the same as antique stoves. But they're incredibly cheap to make.

a single large stone along with some clay cement makes one.

[hearty beacon]

does it slow down if it rains n stuff like that?

[midnight pike]

...do they dry if you're far away?

[lavish sentinel]

see that's what I'm trying to figure out. Last time I had it burning under one of the car covers in Brandenburg so it didn't get rained on. I don't actually know what happens if it rains while the fire is on.

[hearty beacon]

that would be neat

[lavish sentinel]

but in this save I'm getting like no rain so far.

[hearty beacon]

i always use very rainy on my worlds so i was curious lol

[midnight pike]

Kentucky weather too tame 🙁

[lavish sentinel]

especially in August

[midnight pike]

want colder winters but not colder summers

[lavish sentinel]

idk about Kentucky but in August it rains a lot in the Ohio valley (which is close by, relatively speaking)

[midnight pike]

might be biased but even southwestern Finland is at same latitude as fukken Alaska

hard to grasp that the US has shit tons of different climates

[lavish sentinel]

hmmm I'm wrong. August is a dry month for Louisville apparently: https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/louisville/kentucky/united-states/usky1846

*drier month. None of the months are actually that dry.

rainest in May which makes total sense.

[lavish sentinel]

are you suomi man?

[midnight pike]

worse, a finn from Turku, the asshole of Finland

[lavish sentinel]

where is that? sorry I don't know your country well

I'll look it up

oh wow

as far from the belly button circle as possible

[midnight pike]

weather changed last decades, so much warmer than 20+ years ago

rip alaskan snow weathers

[lavish sentinel]

how low does it get for you in winter? (i'm ok with celsius)

where I live it doesn't get below -10C usually

[midnight pike]

I got used to -31F (-35C), these days feels like I don't even see -13F (-25C), and the coldest temp ever recorded in Finland is like..-60.7F (-51,5C)

[lavish sentinel]

-50 probably up in Lapland?

[midnight pike]

you know its a painful day in winter if your eyelashes freeze

probably from -40C to -45C

it was funny to have snow in late March in Finland, flying to Poland and Poland was like +25C Easter

and I was in winter clothing

[lavish sentinel]

when is your coldest month?

I think in most parts of Europe it's February?

[midnight pike]

Jan-Feb seems like the trap, when you think you're done with any chance of cold winter, suddenly you blink and its coldest

[lavish sentinel]

for us it's January moreso

[midnight pike]

reminds me of american companies advertising anything "THIS FALL" and its a December release

fall starts and ends Aug-Oct at latest

for me, that is

[lavish sentinel]

wow that's early

I don't think of it being winter until mid november (which is still before winter solstice)

[lavish sentinel]

haha I love the final image that has green leaves in a blizzard

but that's not a blizzard by finnish standards

[midnight pike]

nothing surprises me, snow in June randomly for a day and then next time seen in January

I'd post another meme but it has something that terrifies americans, a naked butt from afar

[lavish sentinel]

i wanna see ;-;

[midnight pike]

send me a DM, it's not NSFW, just a finnish winter meme

[restive scroll]

I'm telling yall they day b42 stable drops me and my homies are gonna quit our jobs

[midnight pike]

Learn primitive survival skills in game, become homeless and live in the forest to play b42 irl

[gusty minnow]

It's going to be glorious ❤️

[late sinew]

Dont wory you will be pensioner by then*

[solid ridge]

Is it Valteri Butass

[chilly oasis]

Tomorrow

[tropic oracle]

Do wild animals survive in winter?

[slow locust]

Yes

[tropic oracle]

So if I freed them they'd be fine without my intervention

[slow locust]

Thisbi don't know, but in the farms they always survive and reproduce

I have a run now 10 months passed the winter except for 1 chick all the animals in the farms arpund they were doing great

Even reproduce

I don't know if u kill all the deers in an herd if they respawn or not

[tropic oracle]

I found piggies in muldraugh that were in a pen

Felt bad for them so I freed them

Zombies won't mess with them i know, just wanted to make sure they'd survive winter and they werent stuck in a pen

[slow locust]

I know they died if u leaving them in the trailer, and somentime some of the babies if u take for example the milk from the mothers but usually they survive pretty good

[mental sail]

What happened to the chick

[tropic oracle]

I just want to make sure I can get animals still lol

Mainly if I focus on surviving winter first

[slow locust]

I don't know I arrived there and there was just blood and the dead chick

[slow locust]

I don't think u should be worry deers and rabbits are winter animals, i think u cannot catch any squirrel and bird, ifbtheybwant to make it realistic rabbits and deers should give less meat cause in winter they eat less but still moving and using calories to counter the cold, usually it's better hunt in autumn where still is not super cold and they are fatty cause of the summer eating

But this can be applied only when they gonna add some meat preservation over the freezing or isong a mod

[tropic oracle]

Its farm animals

Cows, sheep, pigs

Chickens

[slow locust]

Ahhhh don't worry they will never die till u feed them

And also all the farms have a very big amount of food already in and animals don't eat so much

Like in one year keeping three sheeps and 6 chickens i consumed just 3 bags of food

I think they still need to set this paramenter

[hearty beacon]

of animal feed??

[slow locust]

Yes

From spring is quite useless using animal feed i cut the grass, and is full of hay balls

They should make those hay balls to rot

[restive scroll]

I'm gonna get rich and pay people to research and create a zombie virus then spread it across the world

[hearty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-surprised-gasp-what-cat-shock-gif-635629308990545194

[mental sail]

Leveling Short Blunt by hitting hikers with a hammer

[tropic oracle]

Interesting, I wonder if they'll balance it later

Id rather it be more lenient than harsh

[tropic oracle]

God dang I really did not realize how djfferent the pop was

[fierce ravine]

Hunted my first deer

[tropic oracle]

Yummers

[lavish sentinel]

If you plan on more hunting get this mod to fix butchering drops: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=3592057359

It can safely be added to existing saves

Especially useful for collecting sinew for armor.

[tropic oracle]

Im so dumb

I thought bug zapper was a mod for bugs lmao

[wintry bison]

I thought they fixed that

[hearty beacon]

i believe they changed some things regarding calories or something

which i cannot find i am blind

"- Rebalanced metabolics multipliers for calories consumption and moved some recipes/timed actions from Default to better categories. This should lead to overall less consumption for most common activities/recipes and resting, and a bit more for a few intensive activities/recipes. This should have an impact on survivor weight in long playthroughs." this is the only ting i can remember

[wintry bison]

Man I swear I read it somewhere lol but maybe I’m nuts

[hearty beacon]

i have just been turning my char stats from going down to very slow nad im always a over nourished chunker now lol

[wintry bison]

Weight is super easy to keep up if you get a cow haha butter is great

[fierce ravine]

They definitely did. I took the low metabolism and finally got the fat trait removed and I ate something and got it again

I gained weight for two days straight. Might’ve been a bug from a mod I added in the middle of my save

[hearty beacon]

lol, nice! i should play on default then and see how it is

[fierce ravine]

Also. I mounted the head of my deer and made deer chilli with the meat. A true southern hunter experience.

[brave sage]

GOML

[hearty beacon]

what pants do you have lol

[brave sage]

The orange ones? Spiffo outfit that I foraged in the forest.

[hearty beacon]

thats awesome haha, looks cool

[brave sage]

It's really practical for winter as it's quite warm and covers everything from the neck down.

[wintry bison]

Is that a bow

[azure ember]

Nah it a odd looking stick

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-la-noire-meme-x-button-gif-19259237

[hearty beacon]

its a toenail

[midnight pike]

I just ate grill food Puppers

pls

[lavish sentinel]

which checkpoint into Louisville is easiest?

(I'm on high pop and have limited number of swords to spend on getting in)

OOF, this is the middle checkpoint

this is the best I'll get I guess

manageable

[gusty minnow]

You got this 💪 ❤️

[lavish sentinel]

I'm already most of the way through

and so far have only gone through one iron sword

interestingly sometimes it breaks in a way that lets you sharpen and use the broken sword and it's still a reasonably good weapon

this is my first time going to Louisville actually

though if the next update comes out soon I'll have to do it again very soon

progress

[gusty minnow]

🎉

[lavish sentinel]

we getting through

[brave sage]

JM3 Archer mod

[tropic oracle]

Neat

[wintry bison]

Update this week do we think? Tomorrow is 6 weeks from the last major version!

[midnight pike]

bows surely

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/please-tell-me-this-is-not-some-barbarous-jape-catherine-ohara-moira-moira-rose-schitts-creek-gif-20805125

[midnight pike]

there are signs that patch is sure to drop any day now

[tidal maple]

This is absolutely the wrong way to look at things. "Last major version" means nothing, and technically 42.13.0 was the last minor version if we want to talk semantics. Last patch was 2 weeks ago, let's use that as our baseline please. Not doing so generates unnecessary and unrealistic expectations

[midnight pike]

If 42.13.0 is a minor version, what is a major version?

[tidal maple]

42.0.0 would have been major

major.minor.patch https://semver.org

[midnight pike]

Well hot damn it's been like 11 months since last major version, any day now we'll get b43

Sully enjoys the every penny for his paid disappointment job!

[tidal maple]

^

[wintry bison]

Ok minor version then haha. But I think my point is still valid speculatively if I just change that to minor versions. Its been 6 weeks since the last minor update, and thats about as long as I have seen between minor updates even with hotfixes (though I think one was 9 weeks?). 🤷 To be fair without more information, which I am not asking for, all we can do is speculate anyway. Which is all we are doing!

[midnight pike]

I'm running out of games I feel like playing, it's getting hard to not have PZ on the menu

[wintry bison]

If I asked a reasonably intelligent person to look at all the patches that have been released, and bet on when they think 42.13 would be released, i'd wager they'd say around now because they would count 4-6 weeks between updates the increase the 42.x version

Now, if 42.13 is taking longer because more stuff is being done or something is harder, that makes sense, but I would still say that is inconsistent with the pattern haha

[midnight pike]

Now to ponder the nature of the word "build" for PZ major patches...If 42 is major version, is build something grander or merely a chosen title for the biggest chunks of new content

[wintry bison]

'architecting'

I asked ChatGPT and it agrees, but hilariously it also highlighted one very important line that you guys highlight

Caveats
This is speculative: the developers state that “it gets released when it gets released”.

dead hahaha

[tropic oracle]

You should ask someone with a brain

[tidal maple]

Firstly, ChatGPT is designed to tell you what you want to hear. The way it's developed is it has users rate which responses it it prefers on several metrics, and so naturally messages that disagree with the user get rated lower, and thus it gets designed to agree more.

Secondly, patch numbers are completely arbitrary. They mean nothing. Semver tries to standardise things, but even the way we version is different from semver, it's an impossible thing to truly standardise.

Thirdly, expecting updates and trying to predict schedules only sets you and others up for disappointment. That's why I'm here all the time shitting in everyone's cornflakes. It's much better to be pleasantly surprised from low expectations than let down from high expectations.

No good comes from trying to predict the next update.

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-walk-away-tiger-gif-113868115022690677

[tropic oracle]

Chatgpt, what do you think?

Is what Sully saying true?

[midnight pike]

next update introduces a special zombie that specifically attempts to land on the player from higher elevations right after the player has obtained their dream loot. The zombie has a ID card "Sully Killjoy".

But yes, ChatGPT is more likely to tell you to consume mercury than safely dispose it, because you asked it about the sweetness of the said substance, which is more "fun" than getting rid of it

[wintry bison]

I do realize that haha I am just having fun killing time. I didn't mean to poke the sully bear 🙁

[tidal maple]

https://tenor.com/view/me-gif-8579306663366089596

[midnight pike]

one of the brothels should totally have mostly naked male zeds wearing a pink hat, though

[wintry bison]

lowkey, if its true that the version numbers don't mean much, you guys should just give them funny names

PZ Build Dropbear

[midnight pike]

shitposting evolved

[tidal maple]

if it wouldn't cause insane backlash I'd totally suggest making the next hotfix Build 58

[wintry bison]

LOL

[midnight pike]

nah, build 67 and you got an entirely new audience from the kids

[wintry bison]

Just release 'Build 43' and tell people there are NPCs, but they are hiding somewhere

[midnight pike]

somewhere as in "outside Kentucky"

[wintry bison]

HAHAHA

[tidal maple]

no, we're definitely skipping 67

[wintry bison]

Oh thank god

[midnight pike]

what about 69

the nice build

[tidal maple]

69 is fine, but I'm too old to be okay with children having fun over something stupid that doesn't affect me

[wintry bison]

Im gonna consume some quality canadian products at Build 420

[midnight pike]

glad you're not finnish then, our meme culture from a decade ago was worse than 67

[wintry bison]

Ok @tidal maple as penance I vow to deputize myself against anyone else predicting when the next version is with those talking points

[tropic oracle]

The children need to go back to the mines

[wintry bison]

[tidal maple]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-darkside-star-wars-evil-innerme-gif-12686883553708718330

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-ever-happens-chud-chudjak-soyjak-90-seconds-to-nothing-gif-9277709574191520604

I do realize in a lot of ways it isn't super fair for you guys. Valheim takes years to release a new biome and their communication is like 'Look its a picture of snow. The deep north will have snow. Look at this thing XxLaserLotusxX built!"

[tidal maple]

I get the passion, PZ is an amazing game, but do people not play other games?

[midnight pike]

I did for the last 11 months but now running out

[tidal maple]

Warframe my friend... you will never have a life again

[midnight pike]

and my remaining options to kill time are either learning that coding/programming, or alcoholism

[tidal maple]

you should definitely learn to code, it's awesome

[midnight pike]

I know a trap when I see one

also wife plays Warframe, was surprised that game wasn't about giant mechas but cutesy armours

[midnight pike]

Also, I've played World of Warcraft for 18+ years by now, your statement is outdated

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/so-there-are-others-dexter-morgan-dexter-resurrection-you-mean-there-are-additional-ones-paramount-plus-gif-3119040507011688449

[tidal maple]

I played WoW... I played Warframe... Warframe definitely is more addictive/destructive

[wintry bison]

Part of the problem is PZ indoctrinated me into only enjoying games where there is a constant threat of losing everything haha, which is not something most gamers enjoy and which isn't part of most games for that reason

[midnight pike]

My love for killing and ending civilization needs to be sated

[wintry bison]

I think I've burned through every game with a hardcore mode at this point lol

[midnight pike]

YES, fucking PZ, thats why I started playing Vintage Story with 1 life only, god damn it

[wintry bison]

Yeah so good

[midnight pike]

If I do not build food reserves that last through the winter, why would I deserve to live??

Oh, I went 1 block too close to a hostile animal, thats 80+ hours wasted, let's start a new world

[wintry bison]

I have 1,500 hours in PZ but 4,000 in rimworld. I love Rimworld but I think I just know too much about it now and I can't play without meta gaming it

[wintry bison]

Exactly haha I love it

[midnight pike]

PZ is a gateway drug to masochism

If I do not suffer, how can I enjoy anything positive

[tidal maple]

yeah, I immediately shut off a game when I get to this point, I just lose all enjoyment. I need things to constantly be changing

[wintry bison]

This is extremelt correct

[midnight pike]

I want to drown in blood, misery, hopelessness of it all, to build a kingdom, paved with roads made of bones of my enemies, to become the alpha predator, omega level threat!

Blood for the blood god! Skulls for the skull throne!!

[wintry bison]

Yeah! My wifes dad is a huge chess fan, and she asks why I don't play chess since I am a big gamer. And I am like, the rules and the framework have been the same for so long that is basically not even a strategy game, its like a trivia game about who can memorize and recognize the possible moves.

[tidal maple]

I mean... I used to play chess, but after about 200 hours I just got bored and moved on to something else 😛

[wintry bison]

The cool thing about PZ is that the randomized exploration bit is so good that when I find myself meta gaming and min-maxing too much you can still enjoy the game by choosing not to and just seeing what happens. My usual thing is to spawn in riverside and drive right to brandenburg to run over a military zombie and get a bag and alice pack. I decided not to do that one run, and the house I spawned beside had a military bandit zombie with both haha. But it felt more rewarding.

[midnight pike]

Funnily enough I never play PZ with hardest possible settings even if I crave suffering, also need to be able to pet my animals and live life without other unnecessary humans around

[wintry bison]

That said, I will sell my soul if you allow me to attach a got damn angle headed flashlight to something other than the ALICE pack because i'd love to not meta raid a military base for one just so I can see in the dark with a long blunt weapon lmao

Every couple runs I like to take it slow and do a more RP style, but the lack of things to attach that flashlight to leave me resisting the urge to drive to a military base and lure out a zed with an alice pack haha.

[midnight pike]

when bows and other goodness comes, insane population to ensure cities are deathtraps with rewarding loot, but otherwise have to suffer in ze woods

and maybe some erosion mods if the in-game erosion won't make things overgrown enough

[wintry bison]

Yeah that will be fun, thats why I want bows so bad because there is no other way to get medium and large leather

[midnight pike]

mostly inspired by PrivateLime and his Grug playthrough

10 years later level erosion, bows, building up from zug zug caveman attire to Ser Gruggory

in knightly armour and weaponry

[wintry bison]

Hahahaha

[midnight pike]

salivating already to go endgame blacksmithing and make medieval weapons in long blunt form, or any form, really

[dreamy hamlet]

Iirc TIS had a list of frequently requested features that they had labeled as to whether they were fitting of the Zomboid vision or not, and one of them was "overpowered weapons", I wonder if the b42 Pipe Bomb buff falls under that? Or if they're loosening up on that vision, cause if so, grenade launcher™ 🙏 but seriously tho the new Pipe Bomb caught me so offguard i love it

[wintry bison]

The long mace is my favourite! its so drippy!

[wintry bison]

I think there are some drawbacks to them, like noise, but there could be more. It would be hilarious if you electronics skill had an impact on whether it just blows up in your hand, or doesn't go off at all after you throw it haha.

[dreamy hamlet]

Blowing up in your hand would be nasty

Electrical levels could increase the reliability of the fuse timing or something

[gilded moat]

zomboid rougelike, when?

Huh, it wouldnt actually be that hard to mod into the current game

also you guys should start using a number and letter system for the versioning, make the next version b42.12b

[thorn bluff]

I won't stand for this propaganda

Is coding amazing? Yes. Is there anything wrong with that statement? No. Do I think knowing how to code is a blessing and a curse? Absolutely

[azure ember]

Coding is cool but you also be yelling at your code to work

[gilded moat]

dont forget the dispair filled commit messages

[azure ember]

Dude one time I was spending multiple class days trying to get my code working just to realize I didn't capitalize something and after I capitalize it the problem was solved but brought a new problem into the light

[tropic oracle]

Yeah....

Still love valueim though

[tropic oracle]

CDDA exists

[wintry bison]

https://tenor.com/view/i-fear-no-man-gif-21949892

[wintry bison]

Any chance we could get a webbing slot added to the shoulder holster? it seems like a good middle ground, you may go a long time before finding an alice belt if you ever do, but there are shoulder holsters on cops pretty often. So there would at least be something you can attach a flashlight to in the eartly/midgame. I promise I will never ask when another update is 😄 The alice belt would still be vastly superior due to its carry capacity.

I even made a forum suggestion 😮

[chilly rivet]

nice

[lavish sentinel]

boys, we're in

[tropic oracle]

In what

[slow brook]

In what

[wintry bison]

In what

[carmine heath]

In what

[final lantern]

In what

[digital comet]

In what

[slow locust]

what in

[mental sail]

I started up a game 100% vanilla with only the "Crash Game" mod by Bluescreen13, and my game crashed. Can the devs fix this bullshit game already?

[tidal maple]

I felt this one in my soul lol... was going to make a joke but the risk of it being taken poorly is far too high

[mental sail]

Joke? I should be taken 100% seriously, at all times, forever. I want Pat_Bren to be forced to write compelling stories entirely in cave paintings consisting of dung and ash so that we chad illiterate enjoyers can be entertained by "Thag getting attacked by sabre tooth" and thus reduce the stress of an extremely taxing and difficult neolithic lifestyle.

[azure ember]

Sully your our funny man you only allow to make jokes

[gusty minnow]

We need beavers in PZ, they are native to Kentucky

They need to build dams and stuff 😁

So that we can do this

[wintry bison]

And make beaver hats!

[hollow crypt]

wtf is this Garbage?! i aint payin for that!!

[tropic oracle]

Unfortunately, many modders tend to use ai images

And its blatantly apparent

[tidal maple]

So?

Most coders aren't artists

[mental sail]

AI = cringe

[tropic oracle]

Its still kinda gross

[mental sail]

💯

[tidal maple]

hating on someone giving you free enjoyment because they used a tool to supplement a skill they don't have is cringe

[tropic oracle]

It is when the the data it uses is stolen from artist

[mental sail]

👆

[tropic oracle]

And it worries me a lot that a dev member is saying this sully

[tidal maple]

that's a misunderstanding of how AI works

Artists take inspiration from other art all the time

[tropic oracle]

It's nothing of the sort

[tidal maple]

is that "stolen"?

[tropic oracle]

Theres a difference between being inspired and blatantly taking something to feed a machine

[midnight pike]

popcorn time for this

[tidal maple]

accessing publicly available works is not stealing. Reproducing publicly available works yes, but that's not what AI does

[tropic oracle]

Your opinion is worrying

[mental sail]

Also, keep in mind the thousands of gallons of water, electricity used by a shitty image generator to crap out the image, and the artists being put out of work from the machine.

[tidal maple]

sorry I won't grab my pitchfork and join the mob

[mental sail]

'Mob'

[tropic oracle]

Not to mention taking jobs and enshittifidying the internet

There is legit major concerns of ai

[tidal maple]

so are you outraged that AI codes?

[mental sail]

Coders should be. Artists should be.

[tropic oracle]

Im outraged it wastes resources and does more damage than good

[tidal maple]

does it? A human artist uses more resources

[tropic oracle]

Wut

[mental sail]

That's because it's a human. It 'wastes' resources by living.

[tropic oracle]

A human being is not a machine sully

[tidal maple]

yes we are

[midnight pike]

I've had an argument about this with my wife, but my own take is leaning towards Sully's - if I feed an image, made by someone by hand, to a machine, it learns and adapts the style within for whatever it'll create. If I see an inspiring work of art, I also adapt some things off it for my own purposes because I lack the skill to otherwise think of something 100% my own.

For the record, I'm mostly referring to in-game builds in other games, not art and pictures.

[tropic oracle]

A life is worth infinitely more than a machine

[tidal maple]

I used to be very anti-AI art myself until I really started to think about it. My opinion changed

[tidal maple]

nothing has inherent worth

each individual decides what something is "worth"

[tropic oracle]

Okay thats pretty shitty to think of then

And it worries me

[midnight pike]

I do think AI is just a pisspoor imitator in most cases and AI slop is a problem...but then I suppose not all AI "art" is easily caught, like some art contests where a winner was found to use AI, thats vile

[tidal maple]

why would it worry you?

[mental sail]

Oh jfc

[tropic oracle]

Because you are a dev in the team

[tidal maple]

why would my opinion on this worry you though?

[tropic oracle]

And your opinion can be considered a reflection

I mean need a remind the "art" from the original b42 update

[tidal maple]

The fact that I think it's fine for modders to use AI art in their thumbnails shouldn't worry anyone

[tropic oracle]

It worries me because there has been potential ai art used in zomboid

[tidal maple]

the art we hired an artist to provide you mean? An artist we had a long standing relationship with and paid a lot of money to?

[tropic oracle]

Yes, I do

[tidal maple]

the art that went before dozens of community testers who didn't raise a single concern?

[tropic oracle]

There was much proof thst ai was used

[tidal maple]

the art that was universally praised by the community testers

[tropic oracle]

I have not been given any proof to the contrary

Yes that art sully

[midnight pike]

A life is worth how much your surroundings value it. Nothing more, nothing less. If you can't enforce that value to a human life, it's snuffed without a trace. I should not need to mention an example...

[tropic oracle]

Just because the testers didnt catch it doesnt mean it wasnt used

And it was removed for good reason

Im referring to the art we saw in transitions mind you

Surely you remember that debacle

[tidal maple]

It very well may have been used, I don't know, but it's certainly possible. It's irrelevant though. TIS hired an artist they had a long standing relationship with, we stole nobody's job, and did nothing wrong in our process. We would not have used the images had anybody flagged the possibility of AI use because we're a company, but that's a massive difference compared to a modder

[tropic oracle]

And thats why I gave a pass, because I recall that being said

[tidal maple]

modders do not have the resources we do to hire artists

which we did

[mental sail]

Sucks for the coders that it was decided to hire ChatGPT since it's cheaper, but human life was decided to not have inherent value.

[tropic oracle]

But im worried there could be future updates that dont heed that

I mean i suppose, but i still think its better to just not use it

[midnight pike]

...How would an inept artist modder procure a simple thumbnail in most of the cases anyway? MS Paint? Actually paying someone to create something that costs money, just to have "a picture" for a mod where the thumbnail has no relevance other than appearances on a list

[tidal maple]

Why? We're a pro consumer and pro employee company. We believe people who work on projects should be paid. We don't exploit and we don't cut corners.

Your concerns are unfounded

[tropic oracle]

Is it?

I think it is a legitimate worry

Things can change

[tidal maple]

you're wrong

[mental sail]

"We value our employees, but ChatGPT might be valued as much as one."

[tropic oracle]

Well time will tell

[mental sail]

Incredibly disappointing to see a project shit on artists.

[tropic oracle]

I will concede that modders dont have the resources, but i still dont have to like it

[tidal maple]

who shit on artists?

[mental sail]

Bruh

[tidal maple]

that's a true statement

that's not shitting on artists

[tropic oracle]

I mean

[tidal maple]

that's explaining the metrics used to discuss AI resource use is inccorectly viewed

how about instead of jumping to conclusions you try to understand what I'm saying, give me the benefit of the doubt, and engage in good faith?

reasonable request I think

[midnight pike]

One TIS employee disagrees upon the idea of how inner working of AI works, thats not "Indie Stone hates artists"...heated topic for sure

[tidal maple]

^^^^^

put down the pitchforks

[tropic oracle]

None the less, its still a reflection

[hearty beacon]

Im an artist i use ai to generate ideas for looking up ideas on google for personal use instead of copying artists , its great when youre "stuck" or colour palettes n stuff

[tropic oracle]

And like I said

[tidal maple]

"I want to be angry so there"

[tropic oracle]

A life is more important

[tropic oracle]

Youre just proving my point

[midnight pike]

I disagree with the common idea of absolute "AI copies artists, but human inspiration from another human is not the same!", I still fucking hate AI art because most of it I see is just so plain and clogs up the internet without an end, AI channels, AI videos, AI speech...

...But I'll forgive a modder using an AI thumbnail, I ain't downloading a mod for its picture

[tropic oracle]

I guess we are all human but

[mental sail]

I'm gonna refund my makeship order

[hearty beacon]

Lol erm

[mental sail]

Genuinely cannot support a project that thinks human life doesn't have inherent value.

Bye.

[tidal maple]

Zero attempt to understand what my statement even meant

[hearty beacon]

Funny that, i have seen people be pretty inhuman when it comes to harassing people that use ai. I had someone call me more or less mental for using ai for personal use to create pics of my dog. The harassment and pitchforking is insane

[tidal maple]

just pitchfork

[midnight pike]

Well, it ain't easy to be anti-AI while thinking inspiration of human/machine being the same...People are always ignoring most of a sentence and charge at one word out of a hundred...

[hearty beacon]

Id never judge someone character over such a thing like that lol

[tropic oracle]

I think its warranted to be extremely wary of Ai for many reasons

Because ive seen videos that look very real

And people are stupid

They will believe almost anything

[midnight pike]

I mean "human life has no inherent value" is literally nihilism-like stuff...

I say nothing matters, because in the end we are tiniest specks of stardust in a universe that thrives on chaos, opposes life.

Does this mean I want everyone to die and that I do not support life? It's just me thinking outside of a box

[tropic oracle]

It really does come off as nihilstic

I think thats where the problen lies

[midnight pike]

It's certainly not a "company policy"

[tropic oracle]

No, but it can still reflect poorly

[tidal maple]

I've gotta take my dog to the vet. Happy to have this conversation when I'm back if anyone wants to PM me, but nowhere did I say human life didn't have value. I'll be happy to explain what the statement means later

[tropic oracle]

It means a lot more coming from someone who is a part of the team versus some rando

Even if you didnt mean to come off like that

[midnight pike]

Me thinking life is inherently meaningless, does not mean I will let a random guy die because helping would equal to being a "hypocrite"...It's merely realizing a universal fact as a smaller being. It is human arrogance to think humanity is somehow the "greatest thing ever".

[tropic oracle]

Yeah this will go nowhere

[midnight pike]

aye aye

just another day in the septic tank of PZ Discord

[tropic oracle]

As a tool, its one thing

[midnight pike]

A tool to supplement, not to replace or act as a master.

[tropic oracle]

But greedy ceos see a way to cut out the middle man

Also ai just has this glossy look that isnt appealing

Or an unnatural warmness

[hearty beacon]

Thats why it cant replace artists

[midnight pike]

AI is a sith lord, two extremes. Mega glossy or so goddamn dry, like an endless printer of shit

[tropic oracle]

I certainly hope so puppers

[midnight pike]

it works only with the instructions given, if you let it think freely, it's embarrasing

[tropic oracle]

Free thinking it becomes skynet

[midnight pike]

well "think", more like "lets add few trillion instructions and apply them all the same time"

[hearty beacon]

Theres uhm like i buy art from artists its usually because like say you make art if i buy art its because youre unique and not something any computer can replace or something i can recreate myself

Im buyign because its you that did it , if that makes sense

[midnight pike]

the only thing I use AI for is character naming ideas, giving pre-thought parameters with limits, thank goodness for Opera GX Aria lol

[dreamy hamlet]

AI art is poison.

[tropic oracle]

I think when I say it drains resources is that these resources should be going to humans who greatly need it

[hearty beacon]

Its fun for personal use, but google ai is annoying lol

[tropic oracle]

And at the risk of getting political, society has currently deemed it that not everyone gets the resources even if there is enough to go around

[midnight pike]

You're goddamn right, AI art is one of the things humanity does not need to invest billions of dollars for

AI, go replace all labor so everyone can play PZ all day long

[tropic oracle]

That water and electricity could be going to millions of homes

[dreamy hamlet]

there are good uses for ai, art is most definitely not one of them

[tropic oracle]

But instead it goes to feed the slop misinformation machine

[hearty beacon]

I can understand people not likign ai i just dont want people that use it to have to walk on eggshells for using it

[midnight pike]

reminds me of Nestle trying to get rights for finnish freshwater reserves...yeah how about Nestle fucks off to deepest pits of hell

[hearty beacon]

Im sure itll be regulated more the more advanced it gets

[tropic oracle]

But do you see why it makes me think this way?

If you feel like you are walking on eggshells for using it, maybe theres a reason 😆

But idk

[midnight pike]

I could totally walk on eggshells with just shoes on, easy

[hearty beacon]

When i say eggshells i mean theres no reason for someone to call me mental for using it

That isnt ok

[tropic oracle]

Id be sad that you use it but other than that

I kinda want to see a study of the users and how much it actually uses

[midnight pike]

I'm more curious of what do you think - are you sad if anyone uses AI for anything, or specific areas?

I use it for MMO character names

[tropic oracle]

I guess in my mind you just fuel the machine by using it

[hearty beacon]

Like i said i just use it for pwrsonal use , like when i look up say "skull drawing line art" on google im going to get the same pictures and same artists and i can copy that image just like a copier so for me its easier to just generate ideas along with google artists inages and apply my own interpetation

[tropic oracle]

Like for example

You mentioned nestle

[dreamy hamlet]

Even if we don't know each other at all, it's a little odd to see a TIS staff member express indifference towards ai, attempting to equate human inspiration to an algorithm that blatantly takes works from unwilling artists (many cases of violation of consent in this regard) and trying to play it off like it's not a big deal.

[tropic oracle]

Do you continue to support them when you know what yhey have done?

[midnight pike]

He merely disagreed with how AI learning works. Side A says AI directly steals from humans, side B says it works similarly to humans getting inspired and using borrowed ideas in some shape

[hearty beacon]

It doesnt change who they are though? Im not going to dislike individual tis members over something like that even if i disagree or agree.

[midnight pike]

At this point there's a massive chance no one even truly realizes how many parts of the foodstuff Nestle controls via other companies they own, it becomes really tedious to find out if this and this food item feeds money to Nestle in the end

[hearty beacon]

People just see red with anything ai and refuse to see all sides

[tropic oracle]

But if you can, would you try to avoid it?

Supporting other brands when you can

[dreamy hamlet]

i mean this

[tropic oracle]

Like true you cant escape things, like amazon

You can try where you can

And thats why I try to avoid ai

[hearty beacon]

But as artists we did this long before ai was a thing lol

[midnight pike]

If its feasible and doesn't make my life much harder. I'm just a single human, if the world wants to fight Nestle and their greed, they should attack Nestle at the source - the company.

[hearty beacon]

Instagram is a huge example of that

[tropic oracle]

And thus, why I dislike ai

Like I said though, a human inspiration is nothing like ai

If you HAD to equate it, then it would be an artist tracing or straight up plagueiaizng

Plagurizing

[hearty beacon]

But what if i draw a picture and sell it , and its someone elses art

Because i see stuff like that on insta

[tropic oracle]

And that gets into the legality of fanart 😆

Is it straight up traced

[hearty beacon]

Lol fanart of art

[tropic oracle]

Or did you look and go "hey lemme do this in my style"

[midnight pike]

That's exactly the same point I was making. Human inspiration and subsequently making a thing, using the borrowed, separated elements of the prior work to inspire and help a less experienced human make their own work...Machine does the same, in a far grander scale because a machine can simply absorb infinitely more data and apply it.

[dreamy hamlet]

I dont agree with his opinion, I said its an odd viewpoint I can't understand, also i explicitly said that we dont know each other so i have zero grounds to say i dislike him as a person

[tropic oracle]

I mean for practice tracing and copying is fine, but ywah if you sell it thats plagiarism

[hearty beacon]

No i can take a image off google and draw it exactly like thenpic lol. And i feel bad when i do hence why i like using ai to generate ideas

[dreamy hamlet]

ai art has zero artistic process, unlike inspiration

[hearty beacon]

Are you willing to try? Becaus ei see this alot with people when i bring up i use ai and people just dont care about why someone might use it. Also dejavu

[midnight pike]

Yeah a machine does not utilize emotions or other humanlike processes to procure anything. Just cold logic.

[tropic oracle]

I mean technically the machine copies a million people and generated it into one 😏

Okay im mostly joking on tbat

[hearty beacon]

Lol

[dreamy hamlet]

inspiration is there to guide the process of a person making the art, itirating on their work, to THINK about that they want to achieve, AI does not do that, it enables people to avoid this process altogether for a quick result, no artistry in it

[tropic oracle]

Idk that would be fine if it was just that

The inspiration is great, and you are actually doing something and creating

[hearty beacon]

Well what about if just generating like colour schemes

[tropic oracle]

But the problem is like instead of doing that, they just skip the artist part

Basically the "im a cook because I made this sandwich I got from subway"

[dreamy hamlet]

theres plenty of ways to use references or put together colors that doesnt need ai generation, its almost like the equivalent of asking chatgpt a dumb question you can answer yourself

[midnight pike]

I suppose some people would define "inspiration" differently, herein lies the whole problem. Sully (and me in my own way) think of it differently, but I certainly do not love AI art due the lack of emotion, but I also don't witchhunt modders quickly generating a picture to stamp a mod page with 😄

[tropic oracle]

Chatgpt, whats your thoughts

[hearty beacon]

Cause i bought those color cube things from instagram but gosh sometimes i just need to be able to see it visually

[dreamy hamlet]

but if you wanna do that, i dont really care, i would never use ai to generate anything because i dont see it as necessary at all.

[tropic oracle]

Should we put sully into the soup

[hearty beacon]

Lol

Nooo lol

[tropic oracle]

I did come off spicy and for that I should apologize

[midnight pike]

Eh I've done worse on this Discord and gotten muted for it, you'll be fine

[tropic oracle]

But I think it was the initial "humans use more resources" thing that set me off

I just dont want my favorite game to go the ai route

[midnight pike]

Indie Stone definitely comes off a pro-human company, like Sully said, unfounded fears

[hearty beacon]

I think sometimes you gotta step back and take a sec sometimees

[midnight pike]

its just a single employee disagreeing on a single premise

[tropic oracle]

And if we look at this without emotion and from a scientific standpoint: yes humans use more resources lol

[hearty beacon]

Ya do u know how much paper i have wasted lol

[tropic oracle]

Well the concern is that they may consider being okay with ai art and bringing it back, which reduces the value of the game to me

[hearty beacon]

[midnight pike]

We definitely now need a patch (with bows) as war reparations for wasting our keyboard buttons typing so furiously

[hearty beacon]

It just sucks cause any art they add now will be under microscope

[tropic oracle]

Well, im not gonna disagree

I think it should be put under scrutiny

[midnight pike]

Eh, I'm still very much convinced that it was a "side A/side B" line of thinking on how shit works, not an opinion that would state "AI good"

[tropic oracle]

Maybe

[hearty beacon]

I Areally loved the menu

[dreamy hamlet]

the thing i dislike about ai art in mods is how ugly it looks, thats about it, cause i can tell when its AI and it puts a bad taste in my mouth

[hearty beacon]

With the rain droplets!!

[tropic oracle]

But I will mention that the art also didnt fit for me

[midnight pike]

TIS removed the B42 new art either way, and has not communicated back at all about it, so

[tropic oracle]

It just looked so generic and drull

They seriously need to lean into the 3d models they use for art

[midnight pike]

I get annoyed too, but then if I was a modder I'd only have MS Paint to design a thumbnail with xD

[tropic oracle]

Like that stuff is so gooooood

Like they could do so much

[hearty beacon]

Thats fair i just dont want to see mod creators , who make things for free, being harassed over it. Would be bice for a ignore option or something for people that dont want to see it

[tropic oracle]

Well then theres the whole "donate to us" thing

Which yeah thats fine, but you still used ai art 😆

Im sure theres an artist out there willing to do something

[midnight pike]

donate us regarding mods, not art

but I suppose labels are a thing

if you do X, you'll be labeled forever in peoples minds

[hearty beacon]

Like ketchup

[midnight pike]

yeah like putting ketchup on bread

[hearty beacon]

Yes lol in pz yes

[midnight pike]

disgusting animals

[tropic oracle]

Thats where the original convo came from

[hearty beacon]

From ketchip?

Hahah shit no

[midnight pike]

the universe began when Puppers found a rat

[hearty beacon]

Right what jaxx said lol

[tropic oracle]

Lol no the modding thing

[midnight pike]

the root of all evil

[tropic oracle]

Rat ketchup sandwhich

[hearty beacon]

Never seen rat king since then

[midnight pike]

should be possible in game

slice rat meat, add to bread, add ketchup

[midnight pike]

tried a mirror?

[hearty beacon]

Har HAR HAR

[midnight pike]

You lived among them, you became one of them, you were democratically voted into office

[hearty beacon]

Yah you guys are my pack

Haha

[midnight pike]

I almost live like a non-human animal, letting bunnies walk over me and interact with me on their level

[tropic oracle]

Puppers is the giant rat dat makes all of da rules

[hearty beacon]

No u guys rule

[midnight pike]

We rule, thereby we vote you to become the Rat Queen

[hearty beacon]

Only community i nolife in , and its cause of you guys that amke the communitutuu

[midnight pike]

PZ Discord shitposting is great when you're bored

every post works towards a shiny name colour

[tropic oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/rat-attack-rat-attack-have-at-thee-gif-11648161592664583090

As someone who has had the shiny for a while, it doesnt mean much lol

[midnight pike]

at least you don't pay money to keep it

[hearty beacon]

Lol

[tropic oracle]

Ive been paying frogski 10 bucks a week, what do you mean?

[hearty beacon]

Nitro adding useless feature but cant add stuff like right click player name view chat history

[midnight pike]

He only mutes me, guess thats protection money

[hearty beacon]

😆

pz chat always going off topic , frogski:

[midnight pike]

don't answer disgustingly vile rhetorical questions and type further after being told "no"

[hearty beacon]

lol

[midnight pike]

the golden key to avoid mutes, be lovely

[hearty beacon]

theyre pretty chill lol, i know discords where you cant even caplocks

do they not understand sometimes you get SO EXICETEd

[midnight pike]

best mods on Discord, also they are paid 😮

money gets quality, in this case

[hearty beacon]

oh ya im sure that helps

[tidal maple]

BANNED

[hearty beacon]

do it

https://tenor.com/view/ill-fight-you-gif-9536345

[tidal maple]

But to kick the hornet's nest again (though I know I shouldn't). This video where Jon Stewart interviews the godfather of AI did a great job at changing my viewpoint on how AI learns. It learns just like a human, and the art that it outputs isn't a recreation of what it consumed, but a new work based on how it learned, in the same way that an artist learns by consuming the art of others.

Even outside of the AI art debate though it's a fascinating interview that I suggest everyone watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrK3PsD3APk

[hearty beacon]

[tropic oracle]

I found this for my concerns as well https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2025/04/09/artificial-intelligence-water-climate/

Among other things

I think its more i hate what ai has become

Versus ai itself

[tidal maple]

Yeah, there's no doubt that technology takes resources. Humans do too. I do fully believe there will come a time where AI is no different from humans. I actually suspect we will eventually be able to "save" our mind in the same way that AI models can be saved

The interview with Hinton was really interesting and he actually touched on that topic

[hearty beacon]

we must ping

[tidal maple]

lmao Puppers is watching it 🙂

[hearty beacon]

lol

while contemplating my existence in pz

[tidal maple]

well don't contemplate too hard... only suffering lies there

[tropic oracle]

Im at work so I cant watch atm

[tidal maple]

it's a long interview but extremely informative, definitely recommend bookmarking for later

[midnight pike]

thanks Sully, I can finally achieve proper victory against my wife in this similar debate

also hoping the doggo is doing alright after the vet!

[tidal maple]

yeah just needed a prescription for her anti-convulsives (she has very well controlled epilepsy)

[midnight pike]

I wish I had anything very well controlled 😄

[tidal maple]

being in control is overrated... so I've heard

[hearty beacon]

lol same, yay for the little doggers being lovered so much

[hearty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/smile-happy-creepy-gif-10049761

[indigo valley]

bro need new update

please

Im bored waiting new update for new gameplay

[tidal maple]

the last one was 2 weeks ago

[hearty beacon]

lol

[gusty minnow]

Me when I wake up and read this whole thing

[hearty beacon]

deep thinking !!

[gusty minnow]

My counter argument is if you have a problem with a modder using ai for a thumbnail then create art for it and give it to them to use instead?

[midnight pike]

Sully got promoted to omnipotent CEO of Indie Stone and his opinion meant something else than it did and represented the whole company, fastest career soar ever

[tidal maple]

that's why they pay me the big bucks

[hearty beacon]

save some deer for the rest of us

[tidal maple]

I laughed so much harder at this than it deserved

[midnight pike]

-1 customer (who already paid though), but eh if people have absolute opinions with dash of fanaticism...can't help it!

[gusty minnow]

🤣

[hearty beacon]

lol

[gusty minnow]

I saw tech actually did leave the server though, holy moly

[tidal maple]

and for the record, it was a muffled chuckle... still much harder than it deserved

[hearty beacon]

LOL DID HE?

[gusty minnow]

Yea

[midnight pike]

that doesn't mean Indie Stone can slack with neolithic gameplay!!

[hearty beacon]

lol at least you laughed

[midnight pike]

give bows, mammoths can stay away tho

[hearty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-surprised-gasp-what-cat-shock-gif-635629308990545194

that is wild, just not even willing to at least try to see different views

[midnight pike]

if you put ketchup on bread, you are dead to me

[hearty beacon]

i kind of used to be like that until i frequented on steam forums lol

[tidal maple]

trial by fire

[hearty beacon]

WHO DOES THAT

[gusty minnow]

Some people just can't sadly

[midnight pike]

my wife and she doesn't see anything wrong it it. But she is polish, so

[tidal maple]

social media man... everyone needs to get off of it

[gusty minnow]

💯

[midnight pike]

THIS JUST IN, SULLY HATES SOCIAL MEDIA, WANTS EVERYONE USING IT TO STOP PLAYING PZ

[tidal maple]

that's cheating Ecn

[hearty beacon]

dude , outside of it being great for finding artsits i would have never found , yea lol

[gusty minnow]

Discord and reddit are about as social media as I get these days

[hearty beacon]

dude , have you seen instagram lmao comments are like cod lobbies

[tidal maple]

I deleted everything other than Discord, Reddit, Steam, and the TIS Forums. I'd cut more out if I could, but I'm addicted, and it's also my job

[midnight pike]

I would not last long in instagram, some people take pics of their breakfast, I take pics of my feet while I sit down in toilet and send them to my wife

[hearty beacon]

yah same i got rid of fb because it just seemed like it kept us closer but apart or something, like no effort , just click something to say happy bday.

[midnight pike]

That is a sign social media has a hold on me in that way, toilet is just a break to use phone more often

last time I actually posted something on FB was when I found a beer can so large I couldn't hold it with 1 hand while drinking it

[hearty beacon]

yah you really have to say not interested or block accounts a lot of the time and it takes a while before the algorithm fits what you like , but you still get strays and its still annoying. Like man i just wanna see animals , art and games not memes

[tidal maple]

I used to not even own a cell phone. I was very anti-"people being able to get in touch with me whenever they wanted"

[midnight pike]

Phone on silent and non-vibrate mode ftw

[hearty beacon]

😆

[midnight pike]

Dad calls, I call him 3 days later

[hearty beacon]

since 2008

[midnight pike]

if I had sounds on my phone, I'd get random pings from whatever apps all the time

if ya wanna contact me, sacrifice a call or ten, and pray the divine signs of the stars align, and I may be in contact to you in few days, or months later

...or send a Discord message and I see it in 0,5 seconds even without sounds on

[hearty beacon]

yah mail me

[tropic oracle]

We've had one update yes

[tidal maple]

I get the feeling we're the type of people to yell at children on our lawns

[hearty beacon]

hahahha

[tropic oracle]

What about second update

[midnight pike]

USPS may work even in the apocalypse, but finnish post decided to cut physical letter delivery days to half

[hearty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-frown-angry-upset-mad-gif-18317499875825761658

me staring out the kids outside playing on THEIR LAWN

[tidal maple]

HOW DARE THEY HAVE FUN!

[hearty beacon]

we use snails

get it cause its snail mail

[midnight pike]

why not pigeons

[hearty beacon]

cause we dont call it pigeon mail lol

[midnight pike]

I have this kid who plays everyday outside and screams for mom or dad to come to the window, the kid has audacity to play outside during daytime, at her whatever young age, while this 40-nearing man wants to sleep the days and shitpost the nights

[tidal maple]

Yeah a lovely family moved in next door to me and occasionally I hear them having fun in their back garden. The fucking audacity.

[midnight pike]

also upstairs neighbours dog whines every day, separation anxiety or something

[tidal maple]

my dog has separation anxiety... my wife and I can't leave her alone ever... poor thing

[midnight pike]

shame the neighbours do not seem to speak finnish or english, except coming to ring my doorbell at 3am claiming my wife is too loud, while piss drunk

[hearty beacon]

i dont mind the kids, what i do mind is the dude that blasts his freaking truck bass at 9am with his car with no tail muffle lol

[midnight pike]

not to mention the fact their door sign has a name of a company, that went bankcrupt over a year ago, and its facebook links to an address to an estonian beauty spa - most confusing neighbour problem ever

[hearty beacon]

awh , puppers had that, he would chew the door it sucks had to keep someone with him all the time. POOR little doggies with that, i feel so bad

[midnight pike]

my neighbour probably laundering money or something, lol

its funny to notice I become the nosey neighbour who complains to the housing company

but if your bankcrupt car repair shop links to a foreign beauty spa/salon while you still live above me in an apartment linked to that long-gone company, and you piss me off with 1000 drilling sounds so often that there should not be a wall left...thats when I get interested

[hearty beacon]

ahaha

[tidal maple]

I have so much more respect for all my cranky neighbours when I was growing up as a kid

[hearty beacon]

honestly lmao

i now know why my parents made us go outside

[midnight pike]

if I ever become rich I'll build a literal wall around a house

sadly not viable to just buy a house isolated from the city by the sea, services too far and it'd cost so many millions

[hearty beacon]

a house with poison ivy around it

[tidal maple]

https://secretldn.com/lighthouse-keepers-building/

[midnight pike]

finnish bureaucracy would hit you with inspections and fines if you even think about an outlawed plant bush

[gusty minnow]

Hmm 🤔

[midnight pike]

you want a house that isn't one of the million shades of grey? NOPE

[gusty minnow]

Looks like I am moving to the UK!

[hearty beacon]

oo a dinghy

[gusty minnow]

Lol 😆

[midnight pike]

the issue is, its within the UK

[tidal maple]

lmao fair

[midnight pike]

the british have had issues with nordic visitors enroaching on their shores before

ooh lets find it...I recall some finn selling a house carved into a cave

[hearty beacon]

lol

[midnight pike]

meh its no longer listed

[hearty beacon]

lmao who boughtt that!!

[hearty beacon]

lol thats awesome

[midnight pike]

yeah a finn clearly hated people so lets carve a cave home in a forest

[hearty beacon]

your purrball is pluffy lol

[gusty minnow]

She is!

[hearty beacon]

mozarella house

[gusty minnow]

Just a cloud

[midnight pike]

oh god I found a hobbit home of finnish variety

its literally called "Baggins" but in finnish

[hearty beacon]

all those houses till are stronger than american paper mache ones

[midnight pike]

which is funny given Finland is so safely in middle of a tectonic plate that no real dangerous earthquakes, tornadoes, any natural disasters, even animals...but finnish buildings last even through soviet bombings

now thats a PZ base

[hearty beacon]

that would be so sick

[gusty minnow]

I'd base up there

[midnight pike]

325000 euros

not super far from me irl

some artists atelier

very good PZ base, has a watch tower

stone walls, sadly those won't last if an undead human bangs on them

[hearty beacon]

man , i get jealous of all the old buildings outside of the us lol

[midnight pike]

that building is older than US as a nation, 1600s

[hearty beacon]

[midnight pike]

would imagine it was rebuilt because its definitely not looking that old

[tropic oracle]

I cant wait for all modern buildings to crumble like paper

[hearty beacon]

lol

[midnight pike]

can't wait to see revamp of erosion so it becomes really bad in the long term, in-game

[hearty beacon]

that would be awesome, more crustings , id let everything decay haha

[midnight pike]

overgrowth, crust, rats, maybe even literal new man-sized holes in the walls

[gilded moat]

i just read through that beautifully pointless conversation about AI

its honestly just another tool in the toolbox, because it works for 90% of stuff, you still need someone that knows the hecks even going on to actually add the last 10%

just because some faceless corporations try to maximize profits by throwing people away for some AI, that doesn't invalidate the entire technology behind it.. and I am very sure they will be learning what it means to not pay professionals rather soon

[midnight pike]

only AI we should worry about is B43 NPCs, if I cannot infiltrate a faction and poison them all why even live

[gilded moat]

i honestly wouldnt be surprised if that would actually be possible

and considering the overlap with rimworld players... man do i fear for what people will create

[hearty beacon]

lol

[midnight pike]

I want to experience a faction member accidentally hurting my pet bunny/rat (ingame, duh), so I can start a lenghty plot of infiltrating their faction, getting to know the people, rise up in their eyes, see life through their eyes and then:

[gilded moat]

but I'm also with sully, getting out the pitchforks for modders that aren't always going to be artists is odd, let the people have fun creating things, as they learn and find people to mod with it'll generally improve too

[midnight pike]

thats me end goal in PZ B43

[gilded moat]

i think you might find more sucess with that on a proper RPG server with other players

[midnight pike]

real people get antsy when you act psychotic with them, RP or not

[gilded moat]

considering that cheating will become quite a tad harder with the new server software, I'd assume more servers will be open to the general public compared to now

[midnight pike]

I just wanna see the PZ world burn

[gilded moat]

eh, there's people for every kind of weirdo

[midnight pike]

yeah but if I intend to murder everyone, thats kind of not fun when its not simple pvp

griefing, even, if I bring a horde to their base and burn the exit

speaking of insanity, should start a multiplayer game on Vintage Story and actually play the "normal" playthrough with eldritch horrors

[gusty minnow]

I can't wait to be a travelling merchant, going between NPC towns

[midnight pike]

selling snake oil as miracle cure

[hearty beacon]

yah! i wanna sell stuff

[midnight pike]

train rats to be truffle...rats

[gusty minnow]

Exactly!

[midnight pike]

pls let us tar & feather scam merchants like Ecn one day

can become a cryptid roaming Kentucky, the man...chicken...man

[gusty minnow]

[gusty minnow]

in all seriousness I would probably only do the snake oil thing on a specific character for the RP

I want to do legitimate trading too!

[whole horizon]

dose anyone know when mp comes out??

[whole horizon]

thank you!

[gusty minnow]

❤️

[gusty minnow]

https://projectzomboid.com/blog/upcoming-features-b42/ needs some updating, it lacks the ragdoll addition

[tidal maple]

it has it

[hearty beacon]

rofl

[gusty minnow]

true

[gusty minnow]

ok how about this one

[hearty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/lolol-lmao-gif-22173456

[gusty minnow]

it's been driving me crazy for years

[thorn bluff]

There's nothing wrong with being averse to AI-generated art in mod images & imo just from a practical standpoint it is unwise to use them if you don't want people shitting on you for it (as evidenced by that whole conversation even happening)

If modders don't care about that then they can do what they want ig but people seem to enjoy seeing numbers on their mods

[tidal maple]

Yeah I don't control the store page unfortunately... I have prodded before, but with things constantly changing...

[gusty minnow]

😆 fair

I remember when I brought it up 4 years ago Nasko said something like " I was wondering when someone would comment on this"

[thorn bluff]

“or visit”... visit what 😨

[hearty beacon]

I don't think we should normalize people being shit on just because they use ai for personal use , people can easily just ignore those mods and or art if they don't want to see that stuff.

[thorn bluff]

I don't think it's normalization to say "this is a thing that currently happens and will likely happen"

If I see a mod with AI art, I won't leave a rude comment—I'll just not use it. I think that's what most levelheaded individuals who aren't fond of that sort of thing would do

[hearty beacon]

They dont lol

[thorn bluff]

They don't what

[hearty beacon]

they do not do this , they pitchfork

[thorn bluff]

I said levelheaded

[gusty minnow]

Levelheaded people on MY internet?!

[hearty beacon]

😆

[thorn bluff]

Impossible

[tropic oracle]

I mean at this point i will be either be levelheaded and not use it