pzwiki_editing

[digital helm]

changes to stylesheets just need the browser cache to be cleared

[proud cobalt]

That's what I thought

[digital helm]

We looked at this not long ago, and unfortunately I couldn't find a way to get it to translate. This was when we opted to change the default date format to ISO8601.
The option was to either have the date format use user preference with mediawiki's normal functionality, or allow it to be translated. We chose the former.

This is a secret 🤫 only place to get a wedding dress to my knowledge. It's good trivia, just needs to be rewritten.

I'm going to revert your revert. It's in the RBBasic randomised building story

[proud cobalt]

Yep sounds good to me, I couldn't find any stories specifically relating to weddings, or churches

[digital helm]

no no, I was referring to the tv magazine. I'd just heard about the church one

[proud cobalt]

Oh right, that too 😆

[rotund echo]

Perhaps just drop facts and basic tips for the players

"Louisville has x loot in y building in z neighborhood"
"Most of the zombies are in x side of Louisville. Y side of Louisville has fewer zombies"
"Having combat and nimble levels with greatly help in fighting large amounts of zombies"

[digital helm]

I completely agree (just read through what you said previously). Looks like Calvy purged the section 😄 the current standard is like this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Riverside#Strategy which is pretty much what you've said

Except this

"Louisville has x loot in y building in z neighborhood"
It could be a bit too much depth for the Louisville article. We have some 'neighbourhood' articles where that could be covered. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Leafhill_Heights
Keeping it broad and by neighbourhood rather than individual buildings might be enough depth.

[rotund echo]

One thing that confused me though was how the previous editor stress out water so much

Like, tf? Isn't there is more drinking water in Louisville than anywhere else in the map? You won't find a city that has more taps, toilets, and bathtubs

[proud cobalt]

Yeah I removed the whole thing pretty much. Most of it was my original strategy page, then one of Toadstars and another. Meant to do that months ago, left the users strategies in their talk pages in case they want to keep them.

[rotund echo]

oh, oh

That original strategy was yours, I did not know XD

[proud cobalt]

Haha don't worry no offence taken. It wasn't all mine, adapted from the previous. Wrote that many months ago, even back then we decided it wasn't fit for the page, just never got around to removing it

[rotund echo]

Hmm, I have knowledges and experiences in some of Louisville (mostly the western side)

Usually I just want to put down what I've done that works in the strategy section. Noting what I have seen and experienced in-game, what other players can expect to see and experience as well.

[quasi thunder]

So, the translation is impossible?

[lucid junco]

@naive imp (or @languid kayak and others)
Are these military barracs?

Doe Valley has a number of them and Im thinking about condensing them all into one page

[proud cobalt]

So @digital helm did some investigation and found that the new skin update added 1-2 more elements for each table usage, and because this page had so many tables it was causing an issue. We've updated the page to be one table with extra headers so the table of contents still has each room. And it's back to its... admitedly still not great, 5 second load time

But its much better than the alternative, which is splitting the page

[tawdry steeple]

woah amazing!

that was fast

thank you so much!

and 5 seconds aint bad, ill take that any day

[proud cobalt]

No problem 😄 If you dont mind me asking, what do you use the page for? Just curious

[tawdry steeple]

mapping

i usually have it open along with the mapping tools

[quasi thunder]

Ironically

[proud cobalt]

Out of 1800 pages with infobox item theres now only 120 with more than 1 item id

[languid kayak]

I think we had a brief discussion about it when discuasing adding general pages with mechanics? I'd say it would be good idea? @digital helm ? I'll take a look later too, just not sure when, on mobile now

I saw a video explaining it all, but I'd have to take a look (not sure I posted it here)? Also firearms will be revamped in b42, from what was teased in blogs

what browser are you using btw?

[tawdry steeple]

Just chrome. I probably should’ve changed already but been lazy

[proud cobalt]

I'm going to bed, can anyone verify this? All i can find is MSR700 Magazine in classroom desk

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Elementary_school_(Rosewood)&curid=23127&diff=578211&oldid=526617

Also this, and the wording of it is very speculative https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=M36_Revolver&curid=12250&diff=578149&oldid=519817

I couldnt find the M36 spawning anywhere like this

And this too. Taking the references a bit far

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Knox_Event&curid=11388&diff=578187&oldid=463995

[naive rock]

I can verify that it's impossible.

It's a rumor that's been around the pz community for years now, despite lootzed being a tool accessible by anyone.

guns don't spawn anywhere in schools

[languid kayak]

at this point we could add it to trivia I guess to prevent further confusion

[languid kayak]

I think so, at least I saw a video saying they are. Check the loot names, too.

[digital helm]

It's good to include. There's a lot of info about melee weapons and nothing about firearms.
I had planned to look at this, but hard to get motivated with all the b42 changes coming

[digital helm]

Unfortunately, yeah. If it's an issue for you, best to change date format to default

[proud cobalt]

Thanks i thought so, ill fix this up now

[proud cobalt]

I've added a few more things to the split list that we previously were unsure of, now that chips and pop are done I figure we're going all the way. Bras have individual names so they were easy. T-shirt is going to be hard, especially without proper model images. And @digital helm did such a good job on the throwables that I don't want to do them unless I have the time to match it 😄

[proud cobalt]

@languid kayak you may find this useful, it's each item page and the redirects that lead to it. But all in one place. I plan on using it to update redirects specifically item Id redirects

I can also do one for all wiki pages, if we wanted

[digital helm]

I have the same problem 😄 a change like that takes time, and for me at least, my head needs to be in it. Otherwise it'd be done already

[digital helm]

This is great! Thank you

[proud cobalt]

I have a JSON version too I was going to send you if you want it. Was going to also get a json of the ID dictionary

But I'm at work again so wasn't ready

[digital helm]

I'm not sure which is better for the script. Each has their own positives

[lucid junco]

@naive imp (A bit hard to discuss semi-important changes to locations and maps w/o you😅)
Will we expand/reorganize the Businesses navbox?
I think it doesnt handle reflection of business categories within the game currently

I get that we dont want to have loads of categories with barely any content in them, though we still have them despite that, but I find current ones to be somewhat ambiguous

[naive imp]

Yes,I plan to rework both it and the "Businesses" page itself later down the line. For now it works semi-ok, I just want to have all the locations updated first

[lucid junco]

Aight

Am I crazy or?

[naive rock]

"shady X" is the stereotypical name for most retirement homes

[lucid junco]

Going crazy then

[drifting seal]

Alright. @proud cobalt I've made more progress, getting the same setup for sprite management in the game in my script. This is now basically ready for me to add the in-game modifications to the property-values of tile definitions. It loads the same exact way as in-game.

Look familiar? xD

Once a complete model of the load process is achieved, cleaning & simplification can start.

[drifting seal]

Alright off to work. I'll try to get the rest of this done tonight. Maybe this code here can be used for a wider project going forward for loading files for the game in a very similar code structure as to show more of what's going on and the relationship of assets and how they inter-connect in the game's engine.

[proud cobalt]

Looks great, cant wait

[lucid junco]

@naive imp As far as listing every business in the LV, I think we're done

Im also partway into checking every page and revamping it to up to date if necessary

[naive imp]

Great news. I'll be back soon so I'll double check everything too in case you missed something 😀

I appreciate you picking up the slack brother

[quasi thunder]

Where is "For"?

[quasi thunder]

NeGat1FF has already replied in DM.

[proud cobalt]

New redirect script running

[quasi thunder]

Item 🙂

[sturdy urchin]

hello

how to refund players item

[quasi thunder]

What do you mean?

[sturdy urchin]

like a player die.. and lost his body

and he wanted to get his item on body back

[quasi thunder]

No way. If you can’t find items are on the corpse, you won’t find them anymore. Not everything can be recovered after death.

[sturdy urchin]

ok

how about if respawn from last save

how to do that

[quasi thunder]

The game has only one save that is constantly updated automatically. And you’re dead in it.

[languid kayak]

More topic for #1019767076094758924 or even #pz_b42_chat though 🙂

[proud cobalt]

I marked a bunch of redirects for deletion

Also updated

[floral tinsel]

Is there a way to make the {{Navbox (random) }} not be included in the reference part of the page? I make the references come before the navbox like this example;

==References==
{{Reflist}}

{{Navbox (random) }}

however when I press to hide the references, the entire navigation box also hides with it.

Sorry if it is a dumb question.

[proud cobalt]

This should work fine

<references />

{{Navbox items}}```

[floral tinsel]

ahh, danke.

[proud cobalt]

Np, theres more info on how references work on mediawiki here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Cite

Or you can see an example on our wiki here https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Build_21&action=edit

[floral tinsel]

Wonderful, will help a lot in the future. Had trouble trying to fix the issue I had. Still, was fun to seriously edit for the first time even if it was making my brain hurt lol.

[proud cobalt]

If you want any more help feel free to ask here, otherwise theres some resources here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Contents
You're lucky i happened to see your message in pz chat, that chat moves like crazy

[drifting seal]

Hahaha.. My script is around 2K lines now. Might as well separate it.

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Louisville&diff=next&oldid=578317

https://tenor.com/view/pirates-of-the-caribbean-will-turner-thats-not-good-enough-meme-black-pearl-gif-21850193

[rotund echo]

So what else do I add 😭

Thats not "subjective" and won't reverted

What else do I add that are not simple "objective" tips, strategies are ultimately guides made by people and can't be completely objective. They are meant to tell the player what do to

If you really wanted to be 100% objective, not telling anyone what do to, not providing any instructions at all, maybe just completely abolish the concept of strategy sections altogether?

Besides, I'm not in a position where I can think of much "100% objective Louisville strategies that don't provide instructions at all", and maybe rather than complain and revert, try to add on to it yourself?

[proud cobalt]

I think your new one looks great, it follows the example of the Riverside one, doesn't tell the player what to do, and provides information about what to look out for

[lucid junco]

Sorry for not saying this in time, I meant this as a reference to your comment for the edit.
I find the edit good overall

[rotund echo]

Thanks

[lucid junco]

Lv is pretty much all previous towns combined, so the strategy is mostly the same, difference being the pop density which you have pointed out

And that you need to either break/burn down a fence or roll through the main checkpoint

[rotund echo]

That's mentioned in the "Entering Louisville" section, the main strategy section is supposed to be after you get in, I guess?

[lucid junco]

@proud cobalt @naive imp Should we include the LV region map somewhere in the LV page?

Seems like something that can be good for readers and editors to understand where businesses are and what is a part of what

[naive imp]

If you want to yes, just know that the the page is incomplete and it'll be subject to change

[rotund echo]

Seems just about right, gotta love how Grand Ohio has its own subdivision

[lucid junco]

I mean, it sits separate from the other regions so its also separate here

[rotund echo]

But we don't know exactly how much Leafhill Heights or Evergreen Hill covers

I don't even know if the horse track can be considered as part of Leafhill Heights

[lucid junco]

We don't but we assume we do for convenience sake

Though that makes for a bit clunky and weird border with Far East LV that looks like a squidward painting, and western LV

[rotund echo]

But it seems reasonable enough to subdivide it, maybe each of those can have their own strategies lol

[lucid junco]

Thats something I was thinking about when reviewing your edit

Each one is quite unique and hardly comparable to each other

[rotund echo]

In all honesty my only real Louisville experience is in the "Western", "Leafhill Heights", "Industrial Estate" and "Central Louisville"

The only one of real noteworthiness is the downtown, its really bad

[lucid junco]

Im more of a Far Eastener and Southerner

[rotund echo]

I don't know what to there 😭

[lucid junco]

They feel like Riverside

[rotund echo]

Yeah those suburbs are fairly mellow for the most part

Meanwhile, the only place in the entire Zomboid map that can make downtown Louisville in terms of population, is Crossroads Mall

[lucid junco]

@digital helm @languid kayak https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Church#Locations Church is getting too big again

23rd one is not displayed properly

[languid kayak]

:D. Easy to fix in template but yeah. Maybe Vail will get to ot before me, on mobile now

bit if not I'll try to once I'll be back home

[languid kayak]

Thanks! Saw the message before, but forgot to reply, had weekend off the wiki and the nwxt two weeks may be spotty for me, will get to it if Vail won't do first

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/L%26B_Warehousing#Gallery
Do we really need this in the Gallery?

The map is outdated and we dont do this with any other business

Ill put a deletion notice

[languid kayak]

I think so, we have unofficial maps anyway.Who did it originally? You?

[lucid junco]

I think Calvy, at least he was the one I took it from long ago

[languid kayak]

(and in case you wondered where I spend the weekend, I got back to playing contibuting to cataclysm dark days ahead :P)

[drifting seal]

@proud cobalt

Current script:

It's a sparse-array-like approach to save file-space so check the toJSON() methods for what flags exist. I can make a JSON Schema but it feels a bit overboard.

Anyways this is a complete restructuring of the tile-definition files when they're loaded and processed in the game's engine.

@languid kayak Probably good to ping you on this one too.

I can clean up the script further but this is AFAIK the first comprehensive tile-definitions deconstruction available for research and documentation purposes.

Didn't think that this project would end up taking a couple weeks but we got there. =)

Calvy, if you need further clarification on something let me know.

[naive imp]

I just left it there because it was already there, I planned to go back through it later but tbh I don't think it's needed

[lucid junco]

We have the old map on the Muldraugh page, Id be alright with leaving it if this was something creative or was worked hard on

[naive imp]

Just make another table and label it "Locations (continued)"

[lucid junco]

But since its definitely not something that required a lot of time or something that gives any additional value to the player, or fills in any other criteria - its something Id get rid of

Id leave the map image if the map wasn't out of date

[naive imp]

I have no issues with it being deleted

Just explaining why I left it on there

If you wanna delete it idrc go for it

[lucid junco]

Something Im planning on fixing with b42 map expansion and overhaul, I think about doing a big map of the entire playable country once we get the entire update

That definitely will take a while, since it would include all regions and not just the LV and Towns

[languid kayak]

added 23rd location, let me know if more is needed

[naive rock]

where do the names come from?

[lucid junco]

From 2 or more buildings with the same name in the vicinity

[naive rock]

so the division is pretty much arbitrary?

I personally don't think that should go on the wiki, but that's just my two cents

[lucid junco]

Id say its necessary ambiguity for convenience sake, otherwise the locations get too big and too different from one another that putting them together feels wrong

And the division is there already on the businesses and region page, so I don't see the need of making it even more arbitrary for the readers

[digital helm]

Might be worth adding a couple more just in case. I can do it later today

[lucid junco]

Yeah, map expansion will probably introduce more than one church

[digital helm]

For that reason it seems like a good idea to have them split, but we should probably make it clear that the areas aren't official

We kinda make up the line ourselves anyway for some places

[proud cobalt]

Happy for you to do so, but it was only a guide not set in stone

[proud cobalt]

Enjoy 🙂

[proud cobalt]

Yeah it was me from when i started the LV article

[proud cobalt]

Awesome, thanks so much again. Is there any edge cases or anything i need to know about? And its fully functional now?

[drifting seal]

Apart from any bugs going forward yes.

It's a fully comprehensive load, just like in-game.

It even builds an alias map of the files before reloading them fully.

=)

[proud cobalt]

Wow awesome, thanks so much. I'll get to work on parsing them into articles now

[drifting seal]

Check for toJSON() in the script to see all the fields.

I cut down the size of the JSON files because of a lot of redundant data.

[proud cobalt]

Oh yeah i can see whats cut, ill be parsing it down to just moveables at this point anyway

[drifting seal]

I could translate over IsoSpriteGrid and IsoAnim objects but I felt like it was more than asked for.

[proud cobalt]

Its all good, if i find theres something i need missing i'll let you know, but from what im looking at everything i need is here

[drifting seal]

Hoping it makes an impact.

[proud cobalt]

Can you think of a reason my output is 5,663KB and yours is 5,890KB?

[drifting seal]

Modified script maybe? xD

Not sure.

[proud cobalt]

Are the duplicated textures expected?

[drifting seal]

I'm also drunk soooooo

I don't know. Compared them?

[proud cobalt]

Ill have a look

[proud cobalt]

Some idiot (me) deleted all my work on parsing disassembly and scrap materials. Who would do such a thing.

[proud cobalt]

Is it possible to get ContainerType in the output?

[lucid junco]

https://map.projectzomboid.com/#12414x1515x11378

What should I call this?

Looks like an education center, but its hard to be more specific

It is the last business Ive found but then lost it somehow

[proud cobalt]

Here's how the articles are coming along @digital helm @languid kayak
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3

Also supports translations (the strings are still in english lol)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3/es

[lucid junco]

@naive imp Asking just in case, do we mark various offices/office buildings if they are unnamed?

I haven't done that because it feels like it would bloat already big businesses list, but it wouldn't be all that hard to add them if we want to

[proud cobalt]

Hmm there seems to be something wrong with the size/weight interaction. I'll have to look at that

[drifting seal]

Is that defined in this data?

[proud cobalt]

It shows in tilezed when loading the .tiles file. I can't be certain it's directly in the tile file itself

[naive imp]

All Unnamed businesses should not have articles for them

I plan to do stuff with them later but it a business is Unnamed then they don't get an article yet

[lucid junco]

I mean, should we put all of the offices in the Louisville businesses table?

As Ive said, there is quite a number of them, both small and big, and they dont hold any value for the player

[naive imp]

Even if they are Unnamed they stay in the table

Just not dedicated article

We need a way to document them for now

I plan on doing something with them later tho

I know it's a lot to look at but we want to include every business, even the ones that may not be the most useful

[lucid junco]

Aight, wouldnt be that hard to just look around the map and add them all in, Ill start adding them in and give an update once finished

[naive imp]

They should all already be in but feel free to double check I guess

[lucid junco]

I know for a fact that none of the unnamed offices are in the list

[naive imp]

They should be

I thought we added them all in?

Idk

Feel free to add them then

[lucid junco]

Aight

[proud cobalt]

Office is so broad you'll never get every one in a table, and the second IWBUMS drops it will all change again

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Louisville#Businesses
Mostly done

Ive added in all of the units and buildings Ive seen

Wast as bad as Ive expected

[languid kayak]

do we need sprites section if we have them in infobox already?

or is it the same as with the location interiors?

[drifting seal]

The code removes the flag if set.

Not sure why but that's part of the in-game adaptation of the loaded info from the file.

[proud cobalt]

Ok i changed the set class to specifically treat container as a generic not a flag and it works now if (var1 === 'container') { var3 = false; }

[proud cobalt]

I think the infobox will likely have the combined sprites for multi tile pieces, and the sprites section will contain each individual sprite. But im open to changing that/not including it

[languid kayak]

the individual sprites will add some images, though it may be handy for some? (modders or sledhammering it piece-by-piece). Also some tiles are "assembled", but picked one-by-one (carpets, muldraugh school drawing for example). Would be nice to have other's opinion on it

[proud cobalt]

I think if we have the means to show them we should have them on the wiki. It would also be a technical decision as would increase amount of images significantly

[rotund echo]

Perhaps this article can be updated? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Purse I can't really understand the rolls and the chance thing... Its not in percentages like how other item articles loot tables are

[proud cobalt]

Its in the old format, currently there is no replacement for it

It's an uncommon foraging item, it doesnt show up in any of the other files right now. uncommon = { chance = 33, xp = 5, items = { Saw = "Base.Saw", Tote = "Base.Tote", EmptySandbag = "Base.EmptySandbag", Purse = "Base.Purse",
expected to change in B42, but who knows. The distribution tables aren't really getting updated until then

[proud cobalt]

Here ya go, it was from 2018. I'll remove it for now
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Purse&oldid=37031

From Build 39

[digital helm]

Article looks good, but as Faal said, I think the sprite section is a bit unnecessary.
I get the reasoning but still don't think it's entirely necessary to have each individual tile sprite uploaded, even for modding, but I could be wrong.
Not completely against it if others want to keep it.
Should also note that it will increase page length significantly on mobile for multiple sprite and orientation tiles.

[proud cobalt]

I'll comment out the section for now. I've been working on moving and disassembly both in Infobox and in article. It's mostly working.

I've changed move tool to pickup tool and place tool as not all have the same (Windows). It's in Infobox tile sandbox if you want to see the changes.

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3

I'm now parsing the movable definitions into json too, makes them much easier to work with

[rotund echo]

Yeah thanks I wanted to know exactly where and what the spawn chances are, but "rolls" and "chance" instead of percentages are confusing lmao

[proud cobalt]

It's impossible to give an actual chance number. Hence the big blurb we give in the new distribution tables. It's just a quirk of how pz works. The rolls and chance are what the game actually uses. The effective chance calculation is some pretty complex equation

[rotund echo]

Ohhh

[proud cobalt]

They were added by Vail originally in 2018 as an indicator of where it was possible to find items. But too big a task for one person. I automated the process earlier this year, but that has its own flaws

Vails tables like that purse one were what inspired me to create them

[rotund echo]

Is that "chance" from "rolls and chance" supposed to be a percentage or 1 in x?

[proud cobalt]

Neither. It's literally a made up number that pz uses and calls chance. I know that's confusing, it is for me too

This is the equation I use for effective chance. The final chance includes rolls.

final_chance = round((1 - (1 - effective_chance) ** rolls) * 100, 2) ```

[rotund echo]

😭

[proud cobalt]

Got an example language page going too https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3/es

[lucid junco]

Sttorage

A cousin of Stowage

[lucid junco]

Ah yes

Golf store

Wiki spreads misinformation?

No way

And I dont think this was a thing that was broken by modern updates, 41.68 update has the same issue

[proud cobalt]

Where is this?

[lucid junco]

Ivans golf factory and showroom

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Best_of_the_Bojangles

Im not getting the musical references, but the language, the name of the band, the "Londinium" records gets me thinking that it might be a Beatles reference

[proud cobalt]

It's definitely the Beatles

[quasi thunder]

The code seems identical, but for some reason, there’s no line separating the icons and numbers. The article is Trapping.

[proud cobalt]

It's just a visual bug due to how small the gaps are between the sections

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm @languid kayak Ok I've pushed my work to GitHub, I'm pretty happy with the results currently and cant think of anything immediately that should be added. Here's the example pages in both English and Spanish. (Spanish is machine translated for testing only).
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Calvy/sandbox3/es

Here is the Repo if anyone wants to have a look.
https://github.com/CalvyPZ/Movables-to-wiki

Once we're happy with the pages i can start working on the automation of them

[languid kayak]

looks good I guess;

Base chance is not a percentage, but can provide a basic idea of rarity.
I mean the higher means higher chance?

just one thing I noticed https://github.com/CalvyPZ/Movables-to-wiki/pull/1

(minor, especially as the notice is supposed to go away eventually :P)

[proud cobalt]

Merged, but wiki treats it the same no?

[proud cobalt]

Yeah, but its not a percentage

Also open to better wording for "On failed dismantle"

[lucid junco]

@proud cobalt Am I missing something?

This doesn't look like it has Tags = HasMetal

[proud cobalt]

It has a metal value but no metal tag. Looks like its been there since the start of the article. I'd remove it
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Water_Dish&diff=184973&oldid=155519

[proud cobalt]

I suppose we should come to a decision on this too before moving forward. Do we want all the sprites in the infobox? I'm happy to handle getting them onto the wiki as they're my pages. It wont be every single tile, just movables, and even then likely only single tile movables, the 2+ tile ones should keep there tile_X+Y+Z versions

^ Ping @languid kayak too. Others feedback also welcome

[quasi thunder]

<br><br>? <br><br><br>? <br>? Why is <br> here and in such numbers?

[proud cobalt]

<br> inserts a line break and forces the next text to a new line. Two of them means two new lines. Its a way to force the formatting of text

[quasi thunder]

Here, a space can be placed, no? The result is the same.

[proud cobalt]

No often not, Wiki will force it back into the same line

[quasi thunder]

But, here:

[proud cobalt]

Yeah thats why i said often not, not always not. Can still be force by the editor

[languid kayak]

yup; just a minor nit. Kinda orginated correcting it as AWB has it in its minor fix rules, though for the images I like to have the underscores as they seem to be part of the name.

In the major scale, doesn't matter really, they are served the same, maybe just will confuse editors less if it's more-or-less unified.

[languid kayak]

failed to dismantle?

[languid kayak]

good point, not sure if b42 will standardize it but it indeed seems both values are checked right now?

as for making fires in microwave?

[languid kayak]

yeah, just movables for our sanity, and I think the best would be combined ones. There'd be up to 4 angles only.

[languid kayak]

<br> is a html tag, <br><br> is slightly different than an empty line, but generally it's advised to use new empty line/paragraph where possible to avoid html tags for non-technical users, and it will get converted to <p> internally for the browser.

However, in some cases two brs may make text more readable, so I guess it depends 😄

I generally tend to remove brs when not needed (as in not in tables or things like that)

[quasi thunder]

Yeap, me too

[languid kayak]

spacing is a little different

[quasi thunder]

The thing is, in the “Trapping” article, there are spaces and also brs🙂

[stray jewel]

nerds

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-homer-simpson-nerd-yelling-insult-gif-7884166

So true

[proud cobalt]

It's all over

[quasi thunder]

But what happened at all? What is the bunch of zombies, and why couldn’t you get around them?

[proud cobalt]

I was clearing the road between Louisville and Westpoint and got too close and dragged under

[quasi thunder]

Damn...

Will you create a new character or a new save?

[proud cobalt]

Probably a new save, this was my longest run and now the story has an end

[lucid junco]

Wiki editor actually plays pz?

Impossible

[proud cobalt]

My first time playing properly since January 😆

Super rusty, likely why i died

[lucid junco]

Ive accidentally deleted my last playthrough while cleaning up the mess of my devmenu saves

[lucid junco]

But Ive not played the game proper since August or even July

[deep bridge]

no idea how to determine a civilian from a zomboid (learned that the hard way by shooting a civilian accidently)

• I spawned in with sprinters

[flint vapor]

Wrong channel brother

[deep bridge]

my b

[quasi thunder]

It turned out there’s a problem. Since the Ukrainian language has grammatical genders, some templates work incorrectly, like ‘стаття’ (article) being feminine, so ‘this’ is translated as ‘ця,’ while ‘шаблон’ (template) is masculine, so ‘this’ is ‘цей.’ And it looks really bad when it says ‘ця шаблон.’
Is there a way to use different variants for article and template?

[quasi thunder]

My almost complete translation of "Trapping" just disappeared😭😭😭

And the save is outdated😢

[last tapir]

rippp

[quasi thunder]

I love PZwiki

[proud cobalt]

Ok for single tile movables i will add each directional sprite, for multi tile movables i will only keep the combined one (that should already exist on the wiki)

You can see the differences in these two edits
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User:Calvy/sandbox3&diff=579987&oldid=579985

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User:Calvy/sandbox3&diff=579993&oldid=579991

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Doe_Valley
@naive imp I dont think there is anything left improve, Ill remove the {{Improve}} for now, but say if you think otherwise

[proud cobalt]

Hi @drifting seal, I'm noticing all of the PickUpLevels are 3 for all (except 13 of 3000) tiles, and many of the weights are very far off. e.g. location_restaurant_bar_01_32 has "PickUpWeight": "200", when it's 10 in tilezed and 1 in game. I had a look to try and work it out but i dont get it

The files themselves show PickUpLevel as 3 but the weights show correctly in the binary tiles file. CustomName CustomName Antique Facing E GroupName Bar Tap IsMoveAble IsSurfaceOffset IsTableTop Material MetalScrap PickUpTool Hammer PickUpWeight 10 PlaceTool Hammer Surface

[lucid junco]

Thats not a knife

https://tenor.com/view/that's-not-a-knife-that's-a-knife-crocodile-dundee-gif-17875218452824390581

[lucid junco]

How do you get things wrong so badly

Every beer brewery is said to be a liquor/bourbon brewery with lots of bourbon in them

[proud cobalt]

To be fair, Distillery is in the name, and liquor is often used interchangably with alcohol

[lucid junco]

Thats only in this case

BoxPop Brewery is said to be a brewery

it is a beer brewery, but it for some reason has bourbon in it

So is Chugg's

[proud cobalt]

@drifting seal i seem to have fixed this

[quasi thunder]

What does the 'Vegetation' zone look like?

[digital helm]

I could be wrong, but I think it's just grassland/sparse woods

[languid kayak]

I worked around it by translating it to e.g., "This section" (section is female in Polish), "This article" (article is male in Polish) in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Page_ns/pl and skipping "this" in the templates

[languid kayak]

and yeah, the grammar seems to be the same in Polish, ta sekcja, ten artykuł 😄

[languid kayak]

at least we have sticky columns now

[languid kayak]

can you show the lootzed window out of curiosity?

[livid python]

O polska

[quasi thunder]

Are there any known instances where such a translation option play a cruel joke?

[proud cobalt]

Rolling out the first automated updates for tile infoboxes, will require me to do quite a lot of verification, hopefully tomorrow. But it's looking good so far

You'll be happy to know this includes fixes to weights ^

[rotund echo]

A 0.5 weight chair would be so overpowered...

[proud cobalt]

There's a file called newmovables.txt that lists the weights as 0.5

Thankfully everything looks good at first glance. Verification and images aside.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Gray_Chair

Only the Infobox has been updated, the rest of the page will hopefully be tomorrow

[rotund echo]

Damn lol

But really a 0.5 weight chair would be super OP

[flat sun]

we've been waiting so long for b42 we started talking about chair balance

[proud cobalt]

Gotta get into the movables meta

[woven portal]

nice

[lucid junco]

Just a generic metal_shelves

Better than no loot ig?

Will we change Perfick Potato Co. name to Perfick P🥔tat🥔 C🥔?

[lucid junco]

What does this mean

Why are there some random barrels in the elevator shafts of both wiskey factories

[languid kayak]

no, because the emoji is different shape 👀

[languid kayak]

so probably an oversight I guess?

[lucid junco]

Yeah, another one to the collection

The fries room is a lie

There are no fries to ship

[quasi thunder]

Creepy

[lucid junco]

The Scarlet Oak Distillery is weird tbh

Its full of random barrels, like when someone plays gmod and places random props everywhere

[quasi thunder]

In Skyrim, under the interiors, the chests were hidden, which were the characters’ inventories. But why is this here, in PZ...

[lucid junco]

Didnt you know, a chest appears under each zombie after we kill them

Its hidden under the map, thats why the game lags when we kill too much zeds due to running out of room for them

[quasi thunder]

If that’s the case, then I’m not surprised. But that doesn’t really explain the barrels in the dark rooms...

[lucid junco]

Thats some weird laboratory you got there

And uh

Opening the lootdistribution bugs out the game

Like so

Same goes for the desk with a one off pixel

[lucid junco]

Industrial category is now revamped completely

Hooray

[lucid junco]

@languid kayak @digital helm Can I merge two files together?>

Ive accidentally uploaded essentially two files of the same nature and wonder if I should put a deletion notice or somehow merge them

@naive imp
(Damn am I writing many messages today aint I)
Have we completely abandoned the Pros and Cons of the Safehouse Potential section of the businesses?

I thought we did, but asking just in case wouldnt hurt

[naive imp]

Only for locations that particularly stand out. Not every single place

So like Rosewood fire station cortman medical etc etc are good examples

[lucid junco]

I think we had a conversation about it already and came to the same conclusion, but you can never be sure

[languid kayak]

one has to be deleted

[languid kayak]

That's good 😄 At least there's some activity going while me and Vail ares slacking 😄

[quasi thunder]

@digital helm Can this be touched or not?

[lucid junco]

🦅 🦅 🦅 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸

[languid kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/america-hurricane-happy4th-of-july-america-flag-independence-day-gif-21259025

[lucid junco]

Doesn't Jane Doe share a name with a TF2 Soldier?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Jane_Doe

... Or female person or corpse whose true identity is unknown or must be withheld.

I think the former is the one devs possibly went for

[languid kayak]

John Doe and Jane Doe is a term used for unknown male and female respectively

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Doe

I find this interesting though:

John/Jane Bloggs
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Jack_Bloggs

notice how in the contenpt art he's only named "Jack" 😄

(though actually it is the case for Bob and Kate too; just the "Raider" has it as raider without a name)

[digital helm]

As Faal said. Merging is only for revision history. So just add the deletion notice to one and use the other

[digital helm]

Technically, yeah, but I wouldn't yet. Translating hasn't been added yet (will likely be rewritten in b42).
I'll add making the headings translatable to my shortlist for things to do. It's straightforward so hopefully (?) later today (AU time)🤞

[proud cobalt]

Does anyone know what bar wall shelves is? I imagine it was the old version of bar wall bar, because i cant find any reference to it in the tiles anywhere.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tile_list

I think its just a carry over from the translation files. Would we prefer a new tile list based on the parsed .tiles file? @digital helm @languid kayak

[proud cobalt]

Does anyone have a zip file of the extracted 2x images? my tilezed keeps crashing

Edit: NVM i got it

[novel roost]

are these barrels used for anything? can i collect water in them

[proud cobalt]

No, only the ones with no top can hold water

[novel roost]

ty - so they have no use besides deconstruction?

[flint vapor]

no

[last tapir]

with a mod yes

gas barrel mod

[lucid junco]

Ah, yes

American shoes

[proud cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/lock-and-load-lock-load-arnold-schwarzenegger-guns-gif-7977879

[languid kayak]

Maybe; I had some unknown tiles back when I created the list.

Also you mean replacing https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Furniture with an autogenerated one? Should work, as this page is outdated (it was truly updated pre-Louisville with just a few manual tiles being added) and the scope has changed to cover only movables so the pick up is not relevant anymore

[proud cobalt]

Nah this one https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Tile_list

I do plan on autogenerating those ones, but likely not soon

[languid kayak]

ah, so more of a question to @digital helm then 😄

[digital helm]

Tile list based on the actual tile data would be best imo. Using the translations was just a quick and dirty way of getting a list of them

[proud cobalt]

Sorry about the recent changes 😆

[quasi thunder]

Why are there links to categories on the main page if the article doesn't have those categories?

So big...

[languid kayak]

Not sure what you mean by categories, as these link to subheaders, but keep in mind Calvy is in process of updating/revamping the furniture (ex.-tiles)

[quasi thunder]

Only the article ‘Tables’ does not contain categories, but they are present on the main page :/

[languid kayak]

I think it was changed some time ago? Anyway, all the furnitures (ex tiles) are due to be revamped in the future anyway

see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Seat_Yourself_Furniture too

Actually, it seems the tables never had the subcategories?

[quasi thunder]

Lol. And why was this added to the main page then :/
Although it may have been planned. But it could have been removed since it looks absolutely ridiculous: 5 links that are no different from each other.
In short, it’s unclear why it is this way. Maybe it would be better to move the single link to this article in another category and add a task to update this same article? And when the article is updated, then return these 5 links.

[languid kayak]

Yeah, it will be revamped 😄 Till then it'll probably stay as it is

[quasi thunder]

What should do with those identical links?

[languid kayak]

Ignore for now?

[quasi thunder]

Phantom subcategories? Hmm, cool.

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pawn_$$$hop
Is it good enough?

[rotund echo]

Man, I've been there before, hoping to find a Katana (I didn't)

[lucid junco]

Yeah, its still really rare

You need to both get a military knifes(and/or other one, dont remember it) loot table, and then be lucky for it to spawn

[rotund echo]

Meanwhile another pawn shop in that area I found a bunch of machetes and knives

And another pawn shop, I found a military locker that had 5.56, a magazine, but no M16 (game was absolutely fucking taunting me)

[lucid junco]

There are 4 pawn shops overall, and 3 of them are on the same street

[rotund echo]

I looted all of them that were on the same street

[lucid junco]

So I think its worth checking them all out

[rotund echo]

Where the hell is the last pawn shop though

[lucid junco]

South Louisville

https://map.projectzomboid.com/#13118x2974

[rotund echo]

Damn...

[lucid junco]

I think thats the only one outside of the Central Louisville

Or even outside of that one street

[rotund echo]

Yeah the rest are all in downtown

And my God I was fucking right about downtown Louisville

[lucid junco]

A literal walking distance away from each other

[rotund echo]

Yep

I was surprised to find three pawn shops there

[lucid junco]

To make sure that the message is clear, the entire street is market as Street Poor zombie type

Just if someone was not convinced with 3 pawn shops

And the unnamed one in the suburbia

[rotund echo]

I want to go to Grand Ohio Mall but unfortunately I have to go though the single highest populated cell in the game...

[lucid junco]

A shitty one, compared to others

no guaranteed gun/ammo spawns

Few shelves, so less loot overall

[rotund echo]

FOUR THOUSAND INDOOR ZOMBIES BRO

In just one cell alone

[lucid junco]

Lemme check where is it..

Thats a weird place for that many zeds

Maybe because its a Central, Central LV?

[rotund echo]

Yeah that's smack dab in the heart of the city

Its mostly just offices

Big and infested ones, and absolute nightmares to fight in

[lucid junco]

Aight, Im bored but still want to do something creative... So Im updating the maps for towns

@digital helm Have you hand drawn your maps?

Cause its would be really accurate and impressive for a map that was made by rough estimations

[lucid junco]

Crude schematic done

Merely to get my feet wet ig

It really isnt up to scale

Since in game maps are done in 2400x1400 or 1:1.7

And mine is 4000:2000 or 1:2

[lucid junco]

Gah, Its hard to get a grasp of how relative everything to each other on the isometric map

If only there was a way to make it less isometric...

Hold on

https://tenor.com/view/drake-gif-21355539

[lucid junco]

Now with 100% more roundness

[quasi thunder]

It would be good to soften the rounding here.

[rotund echo]

I would like to make a table detailing what Aiming level to use which guns effectively, but I have no idea how to make tables xD

Preview, I did not save and publish this!

[rotund echo]

I wonder why the devs cut out the western suburbs, bar, general store, and wrecking yard from the map

[proud cobalt]

Here's an example you can copy this and change it to what you need.

|-
! Version
! History
|-
| 41.78.16
| Released on or before this version.
|-
| test1
| test2
|}

! Is for headers
| is for body content
|- marks a new row

[rotund echo]

Cool! Thanks!

[lucid junco]

I think for convenience sake

If you add them in, it would also have to include some rural farms

That are definitely not in Riverside

[proud cobalt]

@digital helm @languid kayak I've used a python script to crop and resize the single tile images in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Tile_images to 64x128 as per the style guide (this should probably be 128x256) then it resizes them to be as large as possible within that frame. Is this what we want? I can have it crop and resize to different sizes based on the size of the usable area. I can do quite a few things, it just depends what we want really. (Also due to caching some of them look stretched right now)

[rotund echo]

Eh I don't think the far western farmlands should be in the map anyway

[lucid junco]

Though maybe we can put a legend over them

Im thinking about taking some different approaches to the legend overall

[proud cobalt]

It just depends what direction do we want to go. Remove as much transparent space as possible within the 2x size, or crop as much as possible.

All being the same size frame means less Infobox size changing.

[lucid junco]

Maybe instead of numbers use Icons with a name under them

And since we are including useless info like public phones and mailboxes, Id add in atms

(Useless for player, but would be something of value on an actual map)

Though I should really start thinking about it once the body of the map is done

[rotund echo]

Looks much better, I might make a few tweaks and publish it later

Damn, some of the info was wrong

Good thing I didn't publish yet

[lucid junco]

Looks fine to me

Maybe the names could link to their pages

[proud cobalt]

I've rechanged them all to 128x256 as it was losing detail at the lower res. The style guide should probably be updated to this size

[rotund echo]

Not sure how to do that in a table 😅

Is it the same as normal?

[proud cobalt]

Yep just surround the name with [[]]

So long as that's the name of the page ofc

[rotund echo]

Okay

[languid kayak]

see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Tables it links to https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Tables

[languid kayak]

Can you post few images pre/after change? Or link the script? I'll check later (no ETA, will be busy this week though)

[lucid junco]

The last one is kinda intentional

The road is straight at 45° angle

Maybe I should have just made it that way

And not janky round

[proud cobalt]

You may need to download them for a full comparison. But here is the original tile sprite (2x). The current/old used on the wiki that is not a standard resolution. And the current output from the script, with a scaled sprite in a standard resolution.

[languid kayak]

you do have to scale the images to match the guidelines on wiki? I think as you said the tile guidelines may require to be adjusted, they are dated by that time 😛

Also I wonder, why the colors are slightly different?

[proud cobalt]

I did notice the very slight green hue on Vails version. It could have just been from the version they were extracted from

[languid kayak]

I remember encountering issue with some automatic tiling not working right as they was almost transparent pixels here and there, so you may encounter tha too

[proud cobalt]

Yeah the resolution has to be halved technically to follow stule guide 😂

[languid kayak]

I think Vail used unpacker back then, too

[proud cobalt]

I think the best way to go is keeping the standard resolution for all tiles, and just scaling the content within those bounds. That will fix any issues with different resolution tiles, at the cost of some transparent space for the odd shaped tiles. @digital helm too.

There are some exceptions that I will need to fix manually, hard to know what until the cache updates.

Is the categorisation of these pages arbitrary? Or are they based in category/something else @languid kayak
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Furniture

Subcategories I should clarify

[lucid junco]

Current progress

[flint vapor]

Why are you remaking the map exactly ?

[lucid junco]

Cause I can

And none of the maps are up to date

[flint vapor]

Really ?

I mean, in-game maps ?

[lucid junco]

Nope

They leave out a lot of the details

[flint vapor]

I mean, yeah ofc

[lucid junco]

It lacks pharmahug

Junkyard

A lot of the connecting pathways

[flint vapor]

I see

[lucid junco]

I wont also just redraw the ingame map with corrections

[lucid junco]

Its meant to be stylized as a tourist map

With more detailed info and some technically useless for the player, like public phones and mailboxes

[flint vapor]

Where did you get that ?

[flint vapor]

I mean yeah but that could give tips and places to check for stuff

That's pretty cool

If only the in-game map was like that

Possibly in b42 ?

[lucid junco]

I think about doing different versions while Im at it

https://thelongdark.fandom.com/wiki/Map:Pleasant_Valley?
Something like The Long dark map perhaps?

Where it shows possible loot in the building

Though It would either be put into the corner due to a lack of space, or have to be crammed into the building itself

Im also thinking showing multiple businesses in one building (strip mall for example)

Maybe I should think about it after finishing the v1 version of the map, then do a couple of revision to see how ideas stick together

[flint vapor]

I think you shouldn't do that, just keep the system of saying "This place is this, that place is that" and with the name of the company or whatever, people can figure out what kind of items you could find there

Take for example in LV near the docks the distillery

If you're not completely stupid (which you should assume of your players when making a game) you can determine you'll find alcohol there and with well given and spread information without a big sign saying "ALOHOL HERE FOR MOLOTOV MATE" you can give enough hints to what players could get from there

It's why the posters and journals etc you can actually read will be amazing, bcs you can get world informations from those that will be useful to you

[quasi thunder]

It's better that way.

Now the corners are really 100% rounded.

[lucid junco]

[lucid junco]

Testing out the Business district

The grass green is a park and grey is a parking space

||Looks like those tasteless paintings with cubes||

[lucid junco]

Im thinking about what to do with businesses that have a large territory, but a quarter is occupied with something

The hotel for example is a large square, but only the lower sides of it are suites

So I can either:
Leave it as is(Entire territory marked)
Mark the buildings with the same tone of color, just deeper one
Only mark the buildings

[rotund echo]

I'd say probably just do it like how the game does

Only mark the buildings

[lucid junco]

Added in residential

Maybe add a small line to show fences?

Something like this

Though I dont know if it makes sense to mark it on a presumably tourist map

[flint vapor]

Depends if those are public parkings meant for mass vehicle parking ?

That's how I'd see it

Like in my city, I think you can find parking markers for larger parkings in the city center, but no marks for any small parking spots you can find everywhere in the city

Idk about USA tho

Might as well search for a touristic map of Muldraugh lol ?

[lucid junco]

Every parking spot is public if you are persuasive enough

[flint vapor]

that was not my point lmao

[lucid junco]

I know

Its a bit hard to determine if the spot is public or not

[flint vapor]

Eh

If it's a store, the marking in front will most likely be for people to mark to go to that store

But it's not supposed to be long duration parking

[hollow crystal]

Help, people. I have microfreezes on the server, only on one. In single game or on another server, everything is fine. What can it be connected with?

[flint vapor]

A parking in the back of the store will be for employees

[flint vapor]

Wrong channel

[hollow crystal]

Where do I write?

[lucid junco]

This is a wiki chat, ask that in #pz_b42_chat or #1019767076094758924

[flint vapor]

Why do people default to the wiki editing channel for technical questions like that lmao

Anyway

[lucid junco]

I think in this case, its fine to leave it as is

Most of them are partially public and partially private

[flint vapor]

that big parking sounds like a public parking

Top right too

These would have the icon imo

[lucid junco]

Ive marked them with gray and a big blue P letter

Will change in the future to something more appropriate

[flint vapor]

yea saw that

[lucid junco]

I think it would be more clearer in cases like this

The left, big one is definitely public, while the small one isnt

Maybe I can park all parking spots, but those that are not public will either lack an Icon or be different shade of grey

[hollow crystal]

sorry

[flint vapor]

That's okay, just I find it curious bcs you're the second or third I see in one or two weeks

[lucid junco]

I think thats the style Im going for

Of course there will be numbers and proper icons once it gets out of WIP

I cant personally judge its looks so let me know if it looks fine

[lucid junco]

The red building is meant to represent that its either under construction or abandoned

Vaileasys had marked both the construction site trailer and the underconstruction building with black(industrial)

Which I don't find fitting

I plan on marking it red, along with any other buildings that is either under construction or abandoned in red, to show that it isn't of any value

[unique anvil]

hey uhh

I was reversing the ProjectZomboid64.exe and some other dlls a while ago and I found a param that isn't documented on the Startup parameters page. -pzexeconfig MyJsonFile.json can be used to specify which json file to use for the launcher config. The game by default uses ProjectZomboid64.json if there is none specified. Ideally you'd use this to remove the Xmx arg to let zomboid use as much ram as needed instead of limiting the game to 3gb.

just thought I'd post it here because someone mentioned how I knew it was a param when it wasn't documented on the wiki

for context, the json is a config for the ProjectZomboid64.exe launcher. it has stuff in it like Java args to send to the jvm

[drifting seal]

Probably for hosting sites to configure server packages.

Always love to see modders with the same curiosities I've had.

[unique anvil]

well initially I was only reversing the lighting dll to see if I could make it faster but I ended up opening up all of the things just to have a look around lol

[unique anvil]

the only thing that bugs me is they by default only allocate 3gb of ram maximum to the game like why

why not just let the jvm manage that automatically 😭

[drifting seal]

I did too to see if I can manipulate color

[unique anvil]

wdym

like individual tile lighting?

[rotund echo]

I wonder if I should add the requirements to get 100% accuracy with each gun xD

I don't think much people would care though

And also, don't mind M16 needing TWELVE levels to get 100% accuracy lmaooo

[naive rock]

I feel like this table should also mention the accuracy bonus at close range

[languid kayak]

Feel free to add that to wiki, if I won't forget, I might too, but not now 😛

[languid kayak]

There's much difference btween sawed-off JS-2000 and double barrel, or regular shotguns for the matter; interesting

[rotund echo]

Sawed off JS2000 has 100% accuracy even if your guy has no skill

[rotund echo]

This table was based off of your creation btw

[naive rock]

neat

I should do debug testing to find the exact hit bonuses at close range

I know for crit chance it's 48%

[digital helm]

Not sure if you got a reply. It's pretty much arbitrary.
Appliances = functional tiles, usually requiring a power source
Plumbing = anything that contains or is related to water
Comfort = anything that can be sat or slept in
The lines got a bit blurry with table and storage. I'm fine with it being reworked. I assume defining a 'surface' would be necessary in b42

[digital helm]

Keeping a standard resolution would be ideal. Some seem to be coming out blurry though. So I think that'd need to be changed to nearest neighbour/pixelart. e.g. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Appliances_cooking_01_32.png

[proud cobalt]

Thought so. I may have to find a way to categorise it if I want to automate it

[proud cobalt]

Yeah I need to go through each one individually now and decide which ones need reverting. This one, light switches etc definitely need it. I just have to wait the 3 days it takes for the cache to refresh 😆

But it seems we're all pretty happy to keep them at a standard size, so I'll go ahead with that when I get the time than

[digital helm]

working with those images is brutal...

[lucid junco]

[unique anvil]

I am not quite sure how to edit the wiki, I'm more a programmer than a docs writer

[flint vapor]

It's not hard but the problem is making it similar to the rest of the wiki

That's my main barrier personally

Also bcs I'm not used to wiki and thus am not familiar with all the different ways to note stuff that is used

I'm also not sure how to approach modding on the wiki

[unique anvil]

and also maybe it will be a good idea to have a guide on the wiki to show people how to use that arg with the json config to remove the 3g ram cap because it can cause issues, though I don't know if that would be ok to add in the wiki or if anyone would even see it

[flint vapor]

I'd like to get all the guides in #misc-guides on the modding Discord as wiki pages

[unique anvil]

yea, luckily the table is already there so all I have to do is just add a new entry, though is there a guide to edit the wiki? like what do I need to do -_-

I don't need spoon feeding i just don't know where to even begin editing the thing

[proud cobalt]

We have our own help pages 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Contents

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pawn_Shop_(Central_Louisville)
Page created

[unique anvil]

a wiki with its own help page thats epic

[proud cobalt]

A wiki for our wiki even
Although it's a little broken on mobile. Might ping @digital helm

[unique anvil]

Also what does the wiki mean by "Project Zomboid has customizable startup parameters, as either JVM arguments or game arguments. This can be used to override "vmArgs" in the .json file. JVM arguments must end with a --, even if there are no game arguments."

I think this is wrong or misleading (the end part) if it is talking about Steam launch options passed to the pz launcher (ProjectZomboid64.exe)

You can clearly see the working set go over 2048m even though the launch options that the wiki say should work don't

-Xms1024m -Xmx2048m -- -debug

Unless it is talking specifically about shortcut only, which should be under the shortcut subsection imo

This is bc despite giving the launcher jvm args, it will just ignore them and prioritise the json config anyway

And I'd assume this works the same for shortcuts as well because it's fundamentally doing the same thing.

I'm not sure what to do about it or what I am allowed to do, so I just thought I'd bring it up here!

[unique anvil]

nevermind? Just looked at the game and it says it respects the 2048m max memory

but then it just goes and uses more anyway I have no idea

anyway thats a separate thing and probably an error on my part

pzexe: windows version 10.0.19045 -> 10.0.17134
pzexe: vmArg (json) 1: -Djava.awt.headless=true
pzexe: vmArg (json) 2: -Xmx3072m
pzexe: vmArg (json) 3: -Dzomboid.steam=1
pzexe: vmArg (json) 4: -Dzomboid.znetlog=1
pzexe: vmArg (json) 5: -Djava.library.path=win64/;.
pzexe: vmArg (json) 6: -XX:-CreateCoredumpOnCrash
pzexe: vmArg (json) 7: -XX:-OmitStackTraceInFastThrow
pzexe: vmArg (windows) 10: -XX:+UseZGC
pzexe: vmArg (args) 8: -Xms4096
pzexe: vmArg (args) 9: -Xmx4096
-XX:+UseZGC option used but Kernel32.MapViewOfFile3() is undefined. Running on Steam Deck?

it does respect it, I was wrong, though im still confused why the total working set goes over the xmx limit

unless that's extra because of singleplayer/hosted server and or extra memory for jvm like pregen and stuff

also yes I forgot the m im stupid lol but it does work

ok I might not be wrong

it says it respects it, uses more than the max anyway (but does remove the Xmx limit set by the json config) 😄

and xms isn't working for me lol starts at 0 MiB

java am I right

im gonna do some more testing on this once I update teh wiki with some other unrelated stuff

[unique anvil]

A question I have, what constitutes a major edit vs a minor edit?

I will assume minor edit means like nitpicky things like grammar, spelling, etc. But "major" has different levels of meaning.

[languid kayak]

yeah, I always heard how to start with it, but never really deep dived into firearms mechanics 😛

[languid kayak]

yeah, it's arbitrary currently. Kinda the same with icons, though for tiles we could probably automate something?

As in there are things that are half-tile behave differently when walked onto, these may be "tables" in b42, though we'll probably see 🤞

[languid kayak]

I liked it… Until it became hundreds of tiles 😄

[languid kayak]

Wiki's markup language is kinda unique, otherwise it's just a text, definitely easier than programming thouugh, but if I won't forget I'll get to it, unless someone else beats me to it 😄

[unique anvil]

Actually I've got another question, is it preferred to only include the most common/helpful startup parameters or am I allowed to add ones that might not be so useful?

I say this because some people like to just have stuff there for just knowledge of it (I lean towards this but I ask anyway since it's not my wiki!), even if it wont be used that frequently

[unique anvil]

I ended up adding it, and editing is pretty easy thankfully

[languid kayak]

Also in case of worrying to do something wrong, I'll probabyl patrol it eventually, just gonna be busy this weekend (going to Poznań Game Arena + GIC in Poznań for the weekend, if someone wants a homemade Spiffo keychain and you're in Poznań Poland in 25-27 July; DM me, I should have some on me )

[languid kayak]

thanks 😄

[languid kayak]

I'd say list them all

[unique anvil]

well I guess people can just remove it anyway if they don't like it, thats a good think about the wiki

[languid kayak]

probably will need a second look after b42 though, but that's what {{page version}} template is for, so we'll know 🙂

[unique anvil]

yeah b42 will definitely change some stuff, that will be a whole separate task for me to learn the b42 java code and I've barely scraped the surface of the b41 code

[languid kayak]

The whole modding and faq-ish section is just a tad neglected, we mostly focuesed on gameplay elements (items and such) and wiki infrastructure (template, translations, skins and the like) and updates to 41.78.16

[languid kayak]

Sometimes it is, but I do patrol changes to pick those one up specifically 😄

I have some backlog, mind you, will get to it in November mostly, hopefully catching up for the monthly summary 🤞

[languid kayak]

modding is kinda what we tried to wrap our hands around but always find something else to do 🙃.

It was mostly Aiteron's notes with the formatting that needs cleaning, though Calvy did some cleanps recently, too

[unique anvil]

that makes sense

[languid kayak]

this 🙂 Should be fairly up to date and hopefully brief to the point, for details technicalities we link to mediawiki, too.

Some things are the same as other wikis, but some are different too, mind you. Especially different than fandom

[languid kayak]

I may have broken it with replacing with a too big spiffo, but otherwise yeah 😄

[flint vapor]

yea I'm not sure how certain things should be handled in the wiki

[flat sun]

i mean, just do it wrong, it can always be fixed later

it's better if the information is there than not

as long as it's not straight up clutter at least

[unique anvil]

I don't think it's clutter

im just updating grammar on the page that I noticed and adding some args

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pawn_Shop_(South_Louisville)
Page Created

[lucid junco]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Diner_(Valley_Station)
Page created

[quartz bear]

Xmx is not a hard limit on the working set

https://www.baeldung.com/java-memory-beyond-heap

As you can probably guess, Xmx is just the heap size.

[unique anvil]

oh I see

for some reason I just thought it limited other stuff like pregen and class memory too

[unique anvil]

It'd be nice if the editing portion of the wiki had even just basic syntax highlighting

It's not the easiest on the eyes to stare at a grey wall for quite some time

[lucid junco]

You get used to it after some time

https://tenor.com/view/matric-matrix-i-dont-see-the-code-gif-8390287

[unique anvil]

Found a vscode extension, alas!!!

[unique anvil]

Is this still true? Can't replicate it at all. (EDIT: Not true for 64-bit server)

probably was added a while ago

I mean the game also does this with lwjgl too, why is this that bad?

Also for 64-bit servers, there is already a sqlitejdbc64.dll inside the natives folder by default, so this must be strictly referring to the 32-bit server which I don't think anyone runs at all. I only ask this because I am contemplating either removing it or idk.

If anyone can provide some insight as to why this is even brought up in the first place let me know. I don't see anything wrong with storing native dlls in the temp folder.

[serene sage]

think today's a good day to come out of retirement

going to go ahead and finish the annotated map articles

[unique anvil]

Anyone know why the table seems to just not extend even with the width being at what it was set to before (50%)?

It has plenty of space to expand but it just refuses I guess..

[serene sage]

what's the page?

[unique anvil]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Startup_parameters

first time editing wiki so I've no clue why or how

[serene sage]

hmmm

[unique anvil]

I hope it's not something I did lol, but I didn't edit any of the table headers unless it was accidental

[serene sage]

my guess is that the text in the first table is too short

[unique anvil]

Are we allowed to specify custom style rules for that specific table? I'd be able to set the minimum width to expand it a little more

[serene sage]

hmmm

got it

so basically if you put style="width: 100%" to the first line where the table is defined the table fills the entire width of the page properly

I've saved the change so if you reload the table should fill the entire width

[unique anvil]

ok ty

Hasn't changed on my end, not loading from cache either

Disabling citizen-overflow-wrapper's max-width: max-content returns the size to normal. For some reason, max-content is being short but only on this specific table

so weird

Even making it longer (I was going to do that anyway dw) it remains at the exact same size

[serene sage]

seems like this table was the only one with text that short

[unique anvil]

hmm

I don't know what to do about it

because even if we try to set the width of the table, the page's style overrules our custom styles in the markdown

[serene sage]

strange

what I'm still confused about is how the table looks fine for me and not for you

I've refreshed the page with my "fix" on it and it looks fine

[unique anvil]

I am on Edge browser, based on chromium, it's possible that flex is behaving differently for different browser but generally shouldn't be the case

oh well, it's probably just my issue dont worry about it

[serene sage]

I just opened Edge on my own computer and it doesn't work there

so it's something to do with the browser

it works on Firefox but that's a completely different browser engine so I'm checking Google Chrome

it also doesn't work on Chrome

so it seems Chromium renders the page differently

[unique anvil]

ye then it's definitely issue with flexbox rendering and the max-content

I feel like it's hard to balance the page specifically

because I am trying to make it cater to regular users, while also providing enough technical details about the arguments so it's not just "does some stuff"

I mean what regular users stare at jvm args anyway

[serene sage]

I don't even know how you could end up on this page apart from searching it up

[unique anvil]

ik that's why I am kinda leaning towards more documentation than ease of readability, but im not the most creative so I can only think of small things to increase the readability

My eyes are bleeding though this grey wall of text is fun

btw is steamport1 and -steamport2 old args? I cant find these in the launcher nor java code

I can only think maybe they are passed to Steam API somehow? But if so, we'd see it in the java

Going to remove them for now, feel free to add it back if I am wrong.

I ltierally can't find a single (at all) use case anywhere, not in the code not even on google

[serene sage]

I have zero clue about how the game's code actually works

i have no idea how to even define an outfit in a mod

[unique anvil]

you don't really need to honestly

this wiki stuff over the past couple hours has been refreshing

[serene sage]

I agree

it's a nice distraction from the B42 wait

[unique anvil]

It will be funny if I start working on my java mod and then they proceed to release b42

but that wont even matter in terms of the scale of lua incompatibility if they choose to not deprecate stuff and instead just completely remove it which honestly I would do as a dev outright

[flat sun]

they definitely won't deprecate anything this time, there is a very clear assumption that all previous mods will not be compatible

like, to the point where it will literally refuse to load mods that haven't been moved to the new structure

[unique anvil]

that's a good thing for the long run imo

they have so much dead weight in their codebase I wouldn't be surprised that it's hindering their efficiency to work

it's time for the garbage truck to come around and empty the bins

[flat sun]

the problem is definitely partly them not clearly marking most things as deprecated but there is a lot of ancient deprecated crap that just confuses modders

[serene sage]

as in -steamport?

[unique anvil]

-steamport1 -steamport2

cant find a single thing

it had to have been in an older version

[serene sage]

yeah so basically it's likely part of the trash that needs picking up

on another note I finished the last annotated maps article

they're technically done, but since they've been worked on by two different people with different styles there might have to be some cleanup to make them consistent

over multiple months as well

[unique anvil]

can we not define custom styles in the page?

I tried doing some style tag but it didn't work

please dont tell me that I have to put heaps of spans with each of their styles set ...

just trying to add some colour to text but it no likey

the only way I got it to work was doing this <span style="color: grey;">mytext</span> but I really dont want to repeat that for every single element to colour

[proud cobalt]

Editing is pretty easy, it's just learning how its language works really. I think we're still hoping for a visual editor when the wiki updates to the new version

[serene sage]

without stuff like custom CSS stylesheets I don't think you can avoid a wall of <span>s unfortunately

[proud cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/kurt-angle-100-yard-stare-kurt-angle-stare-gif-2618405429234636640

[unique anvil]

😦

span a man of fortune I guess

[serene sage]

I was going to say you can put certain text in a custom class but that requires a custom stylesheet so 🙃

[unique anvil]

yep I tried inline style too but no luck

I saw someone get green "Future" text by doing [sup|Future] but idk how or what sup is

[serene sage]

sup is the thingy that makes subscript text

it's defined in the site's code so that's why referencing it is easy

[unique anvil]

oh

I see someone else using font tag, I guess thats the only way 😦

[proud cobalt]

Yes this is how its done, just be careful with changing colours it needs to work on dark and light mode, and all skins

[unique anvil]

hmm that is tricky

I use the default theme, I was going to make certain text grey as it's not important as the text next to it (makes the text beside it stand out more), though I guess I wouldn't know how to do it properly

I mean I could use bold underline as a temporary fix

[proud cobalt]

Emphasis should be made with italics

[unique anvil]

bold italics sounds better than underline

ill do that

oh well can always change it later

[proud cobalt]

Not bold just italics

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Style_guide#Writing

[unique anvil]

hmm

it says emphasis

I don't know if I could call it that, it's not like emphasis like in english writing

I will still use just italic though

ok I removed all "your" on the page

I'm not the best at wiki stuff and this is the only thing I plan on updating unless someone wants me to update something else more technical but yeah

[proud cobalt]

Nah youre doing fine dw. Most of us aren't really into the hardcore technical side of pz, hence the lack of work on the modding section of the wiki. This year has been a huge push on item information

[unique anvil]

can we force italic inside of codeblock without using html tag? doing 'test' in a codeblock just displays the text as is and doesn't format it, or do I just have to do <i>test</i> in the codeblock

[proud cobalt]

Italics is two quotes, bold is three quotes. e.g. ''test''

[unique anvil]

oh I am dumb lol

I am used to discord markdown where it's like *italic* and **bold** etc

[proud cobalt]

Yeah discord is very slightly different

[unique anvil]

I feel like italics don't make it much more readable but it doesn't matter htat much

[unique anvil]

One more thing before im done

I am linking to a wikipedia page, how do I make it so the link goes to the correctly translated page?

I tried to do [[wikipedia:{{ll}}:Valve_Anti-Cheat|Valve Anti-Cheat]] but it didn't work, nor did {{lc}} (just randomly looking around trying to find something lol)

[proud cobalt]

{{lcs}} is likely the best use, but wikipedia has a pretty good language switcher anyway

{{ll is used like a normal link, so {{ll|Test}} would act like [[Test/Tr]] for example

[unique anvil]

ok good to know thanks!

I got timed out on accident lol but I am done now, lmk if I need to make changes

[languid kayak]

yeah, it's disabled/doesn't work.

[unique anvil]

dont worry! someone sugested to just use italics so it works for the time being, though I still think it's hard to read but maybe that's just me

[proud cobalt]

I don't understand. Am I missing something or am I still waiting for cache 3 days later? @digital helm @languid kayak

[lucid junco]

M14 is as rare as js2000?

Thats interesting

[rotund echo]

AssaultRifle2

M14 is referred as "AssaultRifle"

This goes to show that TIS are.... to say the least.... not very knowledgeable in guns....

[rotund echo]

Me seeing M16 all the way on the bottom, absolute lowest chance. See I am right, they threw all of them into the river

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/iovedice-spongebob-gif-21070986

Me when wiki spreads misinformation

[serene sage]

I'm going over the annotated maps articles to ensure consistency, but there's already a problem I've found with the Muldraugh article

specifically, the muldraugh maps are really large compared to the text

I'm not sure how this should be laid out

I'm thinking the map would be placed sideways below the text

but then the annotations would be seen sideways

if we leave it vertical it takes up a horrendous amount of vertical space

[lucid junco]

Have you tried making it smaller overall?

[serene sage]

yes, and it looks awkward

[lucid junco]

Including only the part that matters?

So the marked location and the small area around it

[serene sage]

could work

[proud cobalt]

So I've had a bit of a breakthrough in foraging Distributions. It's possible we get distribution table V4 before B42

[serene sage]

I doubt it's a race if you're going against B42

[lucid junco]

Ive looked into the jujubes and cant get if they are a brand or just a type of candy

[proud cobalt]

Sounds like a bad rip off of jelly beans?

[lucid junco]

Maybe, but it has its own wiki page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujube_(confectionery)

And I think they were made by Henry Heide

[proud cobalt]

Oh I've never head of that. Looks like it's the brand name of that type of candy

It's definitely a brand, like M&Ms. But they're owned by another company

[lucid junco]

I cant find any info on them

Apart from that they were discontinued

Ill put them as an in game equivalent of real live candy

[languid kayak]

maybe? Mind pasing the link?

[languid kayak]

Well, there are still places where the magazine is referred as to "clip" 🙂

[proud cobalt]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Red_Oven
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Appliances#Cooking_appliances
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Appliances_cooking_01_9.png

[languid kayak]

I even tried unifying it back then, thinking of bows/crossbow mods etc. but I guess it'll change anyway in b42 and with Fenris hopefully things will get better 🤞

[proud cobalt]

Like its STILL using the old version even though the preview shows the new version. If you click the preview it will open the old version

[languid kayak]

hm, looks fine to me? Have you tried different browser/private mode?

or I am missing something 😄

[proud cobalt]

Does yours not look like this?

[proud cobalt]

Has this been local cache the whole time

Im gonna lose my mind

[lucid junco]

https://tenor.com/view/penguinz0-moistcritical-gun-mag-clip-gif-27706596

[proud cobalt]

https://tenor.com/view/взгляд-2000-ярдов-война-war-soldier-gif-3632617944134077161

[languid kayak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnEkeQF46n8

[lucid junco]

Why does this looks like a Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels reference to me

What yall think?

[lucid junco]

Thats a weird candy

[serene sage]

tasty

try it with peanut butter

it’s good

[serene sage]

I think the long maps aren't that big of a deal, so I'll leave them be, unless anyone has any better ideas

in that case the Muldraugh article is done

I checked over all the articles and they seem to all be fine

one thing is that the writing style for each article are a little different since another user (Blevita) wrote quite a bit while I was away

@robust latch I don't think I will change their work too much, so annotated maps are basically done

wait nvm Discord is banned where Ksilem is

to the talk page it is

[serene sage]

are books considered media?

they're definitely literature

but not sure if they're media

[lucid junco]

They are literature

They dont even have text inside

Wait

I dont know what the fuck am I talking about

[serene sage]

indeed

[lucid junco]

Its media in that context includes literature

[serene sage]

ok

so newspapers and flyers also count

great

time to edit the categories

[lucid junco]

I think they are the first thing you think about as "non tv/internet media"

[serene sage]

true

anyway I've also filled out this CD article and would like to know if this is a good basis for the rest of the articles? I wanna know if I'm doing things right before I work on all the other articles: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/A_Boy_from_Kentucky

[rotund echo]

😮 I collected that CD

Pretty sure I have that one at my base lol

[serene sage]

nice

[round flume]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Engineer

Engineer wiki is beyond lackluster and doesnt show what you start off knowing

[serene sage]

a lot of them are like that, since they just go by the in-game description

[round flume]

I gotta learn how to set it up right

[serene sage]

will make a note to add them in someday

[round flume]

I see alot of issues but dont wanna accidentally fuck up a page

[serene sage]

we've had a bunch of people stop by afraid to make edits

it's pretty much impossible to mess up a mediawiki site as a normal user

I'd say just go for it

[round flume]

If I do something someone will likely polish it up right?

[serene sage]

if worst comes to worst someone will just revert the changes with a single click

[serene sage]

it depends on if they feel like it needs polishing, but if you do a decent job at it then no one will just change it willy-nilly

that's just the magic of community wikis

[round flume]

Good to know thank you :). I see so much under info things or straight up misinformation and i wanna fix it but worried ill screw up the formating

[serene sage]

make sure to make good use of the preview button when you edit, if you want to be sure of what you're doing to the page before saving your changes to it

[round flume]

Oh neat

ok 🙂

[serene sage]

the 16th LV annotated map's house has a different exterior color from the rest of the neighborhood

strange

[rotund echo]

What is that, crazy gun guy?

Ah wait, the Crazy-Gun-Guy Neighborhood doesn't have blue houses

[proud cobalt]

Just do it

[serene sage]

nike

[serene sage]

nah

just a random guy who thought it was safe to camp out in LV for a few days

now we get to profit off of their mistake

[rotund echo]

Tbf he was in the eastern Louisville

not in the downtown part

Oh well, at least Louisville doesn't have an annotated map that turns a giant office building into a huge boarded up, fckin zombie hell hole

[serene sage]

imagine if one exists in B42

32 floors full of zombies and paperclips

windows impossibly boarded up several stories in the air

[rotund echo]

Yes...

[serene sage]

would you be interested in zombie hell hole lite?

[rotund echo]

If its a survivor home, I'm always interested

36 zombies is nuthin to me

[serene sage]

it's a baker's dozen, not a regular dozen

[rotund echo]

So, 39?

[serene sage]

yeah

actually there's a map of West Point worst than that office

[rotund echo]

Wait what

[serene sage]

the booby-trapped house

[rotund echo]

(there's no loot inside and he just put his entire extended family in there?)

[serene sage]

no, worse, they left zero loot there and rigged the house with explosives

smoke bombs

pipe bombs

noise makers

[rotund echo]

Is this loot you found, or is this actual trap that was set up?

[serene sage]

no

can't loot them

they just explode in your face when you open the door

[rotund echo]

WHAT

That's fckin evil bro

[serene sage]

it's the only map in the whole game to be an absolute negative

I've done so much testing on these maps yet none of them are as bad as this one

I'm convinced there will be more of these "prank" maps in B42

maybe a marker reading "free sledgehammers and generator mags here"

go there and the run ends

[rotund echo]

Add a vehicle story along the riverbanks where there are two zombies and a Chevalier D6 pickup truck filled with M16s.

There will also be several M16s scattered on the ground, it seems these people gathered M16s and tried to throw them all into the river.

(Magazines and 5.56 will not be provided)

[serene sage]

nah I think they also dumped all the saws into the river

because I can’t find any in my current run

[proud cobalt]

@serene sage Which files handle random stories? Interested to see if they're parseable for location tables

[serene sage]

no idea, I literally only interact with them through debug menu, apart from a few lua files defining stuff like “breakfast”

in any case the files I checked don’t seem to have locations defined in them

could be wrong though