The tupa rework

[halcyon venture]

The flying bruiser cannot be balanced, so make tupa into a support. (we dont need 4 bruisers)

Stats:
increased flying turn radius
increase health to 360

Charge:
replace with a momentum based peck doing like 30-60dmg
does no knockback (this causes issues like double hit and is very annoying to fight against)
increase peck attack speed

Slam:
reduce radius but make it so you can destroy all depoyables like mando health and ammo kits
ignores damage resistances
Make damage more consistent

Roar:
roar can differentiate from below 50% and above 50% hp targets
Gives a small stamina boost to nearby allies

[fresh pilot]

yeah, generally speaking charge is way too bonkers to balance and needs to be replaced with something else

[halcyon venture]

I think these are some fair changes i hope

[inland shale]

idk why people take such an issue with tupa
it's perfectly fine aside from the double hit issues, but those apply to every bruiser iirc

[halcyon venture]

Mostly because it's a pain to balance and fight against and we already got 3 bruisers

Tupa is arguably the worst class rn and nobody besides like 2 other people know how to play it

A new support would be cool

[inland shale]

you're not suggesting a support though, that does nothing to help teammates, that's just a weaker tupa lol

[halcyon venture]

Highlighting low hp enemies and the ability to destroy all deployables including mandos health and ammo kits is pretty supportive

[halcyon venture]

Or I could adjust the suggestion a bit

[halcyon venture]

Added a small stam boost to nearby allies on roar

[wise ridge]

the double hit shouldn't be a thing anymore though?

[fresh pilot]

By double hit they mean using peck then sprinting/diving so you can hit someone with both peck and charge at the same time.

[halcyon venture]

It would be so over if that was removed

[halcyon venture]

If momentum based peck doesn't get added

[wise ridge]

pecking is not possible at high speed, and the cooldown between charge impacts was fixed with the most recent patch. you literally cannot do another charge impact for 0.7 seconds after impacting a human, which prevents them getting knocked a second time if they were still falling ahead of you after your first charge.

[fresh pilot]

The pecking hitbox lasts long enough that you can peck, pick up enough speed and hit someone with both peck and charge at the same time

[halcyon venture]

Charge activates as soon as you press shift initial speed doesn't really matter

[halcyon venture]

even if you're at max speed you have to hold shift or you cant do damage which messes with new players

[unkempt hazel]

I'm sorry but replacing the charge with just a better peck is supposed to accomplish what exactly? Like literally won't change anything but make Tupa even more situational since now it has no reliable way of actually supporting its teammates other than suiciding into the team with a groundpound lmao

Charge lets Tupa quickly dislodge players in tricky spots. It's less reliable than Ptera grab (in theory, Ptera is pretty garbage rn too though) but doesn't have the drawbacks of Ptera grab (needing time to lift someone away, needing to time it, and needing to avoid taking damage)

Tupa was fine a few updates ago, just needed some minor tweaks to knockback and fixing long-time bugs, but it keeps getting random heavy nerfs to it because people don't want to have to look up. Tupa has always been one of the easiest classes to counter even when it was reliable because it's so predictable and now it's both bad even in the best of circumstances and extremely easy to counter

Ideally Tupa would have gotten an entirely different secondary attack but the secondary it got (the ground pound) is just really really bad for anything but finishing off a singular target you got to low health conceptually. Unless you completely get rid of the stall time at the end of the ground pound it will always just be suicidal to use an attack that pauses you in place like that as a class as frail as Tupa.

[halcyon venture]

was going for a faster playstyle while helping to enable your team to push with you, maybe a minor flight speed increase would help. Also charge doesnt really support your team its just knocks humans away from your tyrant most of the time. Maybe reducing slam lockdown would help you not die instantly when using it but that might make it too spammable and annoying to fight against. Thats why you roar and then slam with more consistent damage and if new roar says their low.

[unkempt hazel]

knocking a scientist sitting on a cliffside sniping your tyrant from across the map or causing humans to leave a raised area tyrants can't get to because they don't want knocked down is absolutely supportive and is far more valuable than any negative to tupas occasionally knocking humans away from tyrants

if I want to go around pecking people to death I'll just play Ptera. Being slower makes it way easier to hit pecks and swoop back around to hit them again

For the record I'm not saying removing charge is 100% a bad idea for a flier subclass, but Tupa's secondary isn't going to change meaningfully lbh and it's way too garbage to just make Tupa's peck better and remove charge altogether

[halcyon venture]

Fair but you can use slam for that and thats kind of a map issue. Also why use tupa when you can use pachy?

[unkempt hazel]

The groundpound is, again, extremely suicidal unless against a singular target you know will die in the process. It's literally almost exclusively a finisher. Against bad players you can usually survive not killing your opponent but any player worth half their salt is going to punish you hard for using it. Also because Tupa can get into plenty of places Pachy can't and has signficantly more control over where it sends people.

[halcyon venture]

sci on the high ground is the best slam target though

[unkempt hazel]

Sure if the groundpound sends her in the right direction. Which it rarely does because of how random its knockback can be

Plus the Tupa broadcasts when it uses it while it's much quieter while ramming

[halcyon venture]

yeah idk everyone doesnt like how charge launches you around both teamates and enemies so this is what I came up with. Something less irritating and more fun to play as on paper, something that isnt a walmart bruiser.

[unkempt hazel]

"Everyone" is a pretty gross generalization. I'd much rather get tossed around by tupas than carnos since at least the tupas you can actually kill meaningfully. Also just flat out removing abilities and not replacing them at all would not make it 'more fun to play on paper'. That's just nonsense. Definitely sucks that it's a walmart bruiser, blame the devs for giving it a bad secondary when they could have given it a good secondary so that it could have gotten a more meaningful rework that didn't rely on being a discount bruiser.

[halcyon venture]

just because tupa is easy to kill doesnt mean its not annoying to fight against. Almost nobody knows how to play tupa properly which is an issue. Carno dies within a nanosecond if it misses once.

[unkempt hazel]

nobody knows how to play Tupa because it's complete garbage rn lmao there absolutely were tupa players who knew how to play the class a year ago.

[raven mulch]

I dont play tupa but I agree with this change because it sounds a lot more fun to fight against and it wont kill me by knocking a human class away from me when I’m trying to fight them

[lament compass]

Removing tupa knockback entirely just to fix double hit doesn’t sound like a good solution, instead of removing the entire point of tupa, just make double hit impossible by adjusting values or something. Knockback is what makes tupa fun and worthwhile to play and it doesn’t need another nerf (aside from double hit) and the turning radius on tupa is already bad enough it doesn’t need to be increased but everything else I agree with

Momentum would be really cool because it rewards the tupa for being able to strike from a long distance and punishes humans and especially snipers for not paying attention to the sky

But the momentum shouldn’t be Tupa’s main way of dealing damage because it’s super situational and relies on the human team’s ability to look up

[silent tinsel]

I honestly loved pre-groundpound Tupa the best. Hitting the right angle and playing with knockback was much more fun than current Tupa.