general

[sand fulcrum]

yep

[indigo knoll]

is Arena the only platform offering these top models for free rn?

[shrewd citrus]

im gonna bet that’s they’ll bring back the top models on Monday

[indigo knoll]

is there another one?

[fossil socket]

Arena.ai rn

[toxic whale]

@echo aurora are we getting Claude sonnet 4.6 thinking

It's not out but 4.5 thinking is

[fossil socket]

A very disappointing month indeed

[echo aurora]

It's possible, for new models added overall I won't be able to give an early heads up.

But if we do, we'll be sure to put out an #announcements

[toxic whale]

Just weird it's not out cuz 4.5 sonnet thinking is and 4.6 sonnet is out just not thinking

[astral jetty]

Is opus still theoretically available if you use the max feature or does it pick based on avaliable direct models

[hot niche]

Where's Claude bro?

[indigo knoll]

expensive as hell

[shrewd citrus]

Hey @echo aurora I asked a pretty odd question in #ask-here and I’m hoping you may have an answer to it 🥺

[toxic whale]

If you figure out it's that model I think so

[echo aurora]

Will do

[plucky sparrow]

No Claude 🤣

[indigo knoll]

too limited for free users

[plucky sparrow]

i'd argue they all are

[toxic whale]

I did that with GPT 5 anonymous I found out it's that model and continued

[upper thorn]

Pineapple do you ever sleep I see you here like all day

[plucky sparrow]

wow 100% gemini

[indigo knoll]

Gemini is way more unlimited

[humble jolt]

claude opus come back my friends

[cedar pagoda]

replaced 4.6 with the worst opus model

[plucky sparrow]

i keep running into the limit with gemini pro

[echo aurora]

I sleep in between pings

[humble jolt]

but 4.5 too good, no?

[plucky sparrow]

unless you mean on arena.ai. i'm talking about actual from google gemini

[toxic whale]

How lmao I did once only

[indigo knoll]

the limit of flash 3 is good for free usage imo

[plucky sparrow]

what do you mean? that I use it at all?

[quartz light]

SONNET 4.6 IS GONE

[plucky sparrow]

idk 3 flash sucks 😄

[quartz light]

SONNET 4.6 IS GONE

[storm dust]

no way

[astral jetty]

Are you using ai studio

[toxic whale]

Via Gemini chat you hit limits on pro often? I only did 1 time and I use it alot

[quartz light]

ARE WE SERIOUS

[storm dust]

is it actually gone?

[quartz light]

YES

[plucky sparrow]

both. gemini.google.com and aistudio

[soft matrix]

it is

[storm dust]

bruh

it was my alternative

[plucky sparrow]

if you're a free user especially they have low limits

[quartz light]

5.4 high is gone

3.1 pro is gone

[storm dust]

i hope it is temporarily

[quartz light]

sonnet 4.6 is gone

[fast dew]

Well they were supposed to get rid of that

Not sonnet tho

[quartz light]

no theyre not going to do ####

[fast dew]

@echo aurora R u getting rid of sonnet too

[plucky sparrow]

yes. if I use it exclusively, i hit the limit

[quartz light]

they dont care

[plucky sparrow]

and I have Gemini Pro

[quartz light]

its just a community manager

they cant share insider info

[toxic whale]

Ye I have Gemini pro I use it daily for alot of tasks only hit the limit 1 time

[storm dust]

oh at least claude opus 4.6 search is back

[soft matrix]

I thought it was cat astronaut skin

[quartz light]

why did you say that

[plucky sparrow]

I hit the limit unless I send a lot of requests to flash

[quartz light]

watch them remove it

[echo aurora]

We'll be sure to put out an announcement for these types of removals if/when something like that happens again

[storm dust]

wdym why i said that

[indigo knoll]

does even they have limit for 3 flash? i never reached that, ik for Pro the limit is 10/day right?

[storm dust]

i just said it

[plucky sparrow]

i think so but i've never hit the flash limit

[quartz light]

dude theyre going to remove it now that youve mentioned it

🥀

[storm dust]

why does that matter

[quartz light]

are we serious?

[storm dust]

wdym

what do you want dude

[slate sphinx]

fk Why been Claude Opus 4.6 from Direct?

[echo aurora]

Something I'm very vocal about internally is how we should be more upfront and give a more early heads up when new limitations are beingimplemented. This is an area we're going to be better about.

[cedar pagoda]

context is so bad im ngl its not worth using. its like you can barely prompt it

[echo aurora]

"its"..."just"... come on!

[chrome goblet]

Where is Gemini 3.1?

[cedar pagoda]

gone

its gone

[quartz light]

i mean they think you're doing this

[fast dew]

Btw they were gonna remove this model in the first place but idk why they took so long

[slate sphinx]

What the problem with returning Opus 4.6?

[echo aurora]

I'm not being serious, just joking

[fast dew]

Costs too much

[plucky sparrow]

they show should more models in battle mode at once if they want you to use it more to compare

[quartz light]

yes yes i didnt take it seriously

[plucky sparrow]

2 isn't enough when there's so many mediocre models out there

[slate sphinx]

There alternative Opus??

[fast dew]

Lowkey why is direct chat free in the first place

Should be pay to use

[quartz light]

yall they just readded sonnet 4.6

❤️‍🩹

[obsidian cargo]

downside to canaryarena is that it still has the broken captchas

[flint zenith]

nooooooooo

[fast dew]

Opus is gone so no one is gonna use canaryarena anymore

[flint zenith]

They've even removed Gemini 3.1 now

[fast dew]

🤣

[plucky sparrow]

wow

[slate sphinx]

Everyone There alternative Opus??

[flint zenith]

wtf

[slate sphinx]

for coding

[proper quiver]

they removed gpt 5.3 chat latest

[indigo knoll]

Claude is being a bit overrated just becausde of Opus, their other models are nothing special imo (sonnet etc)

[plucky sparrow]

add more comparisons for battle mode, please

[obsidian cargo]

damn :(

[fast dew]

They literally js teased mythos

Which is way better than opus

At least thats what they saying

[plucky sparrow]

yeah but, no one going to be able to use it

[quartz light]

the new update is a 1 year leap backwards lol

[plucky sparrow]

so bleh

[fast dew]

They gonna update opus with it

Thats what they said

[dapper egret]

Did they just remove basically every decent non-open model?

[flint zenith]

lol

[gleaming roost]

😞

[fast dew]

How long does it take to come up with a sustainable way to keep opus???

[quartz light]

oh btw they mentioned theyre just going to focus on safeguards so basically they just said "no mythos for yall, but we're making opus worse"

[fast dew]

Im pretty sure people listed like 10 different ways in the server

[slate sphinx]

200 bucks very more??? Claude opus 4.6

[dapper egret]

Long enough that they apparently removed GPT5.4 and Gemini as well

[quartz light]

5.4*

[flint zenith]

I believe that if they continue removing the good models and leave only the bad ones, they will lose users.

[echo aurora]

We don't have a specific ETA to share, but we are developing plans. I'm hoping to share more details about this soon, so keep an eye on #announcements

[quartz light]

i understand opus but 3.1 pro is actually wild

3.1 pro is really cost efficient

price to performance

[flint zenith]

We need a billionaire donor

[dapper egret]

Google is king of smaller params is it not?

[plucky sparrow]

probably want us to use battle mode more

but as i said, they need to add more comparisons!

[fossil socket]

Me rn with this website

[fast dew]

So opus comes back and u respond with removing opus and EVEN MORE models

Without any reminders

[dapper egret]

Exactly. The older GPT models probably cost much more than the newer Gemini.

[storm dust]

exactly you're not using it

anymore

[quartz light]

notice*

[fossil socket]

But I am watching the drama unfold here

[fast dew]

Jit

Shh

[storm dust]

drama

[echo aurora]

On 4/2 we did put out an announcement stating these models were in the process of being removed

[fast dew]

Aight

I understand

U take the time u need

[quartz light]

yall should make the default model glm 5.1, its really, really good honestly. right now, side by side default is 2.5 pro vs sonnet 4.5 so uh...

[fast dew]

Cuz we lucky to have direct chat at all lol

[chrome goblet]

Can you bring back Gemini 3.1 without the preview on it?

[old halo]

Guys, they actually just removed Gemini 3.1 Pro Preview and Chat GPT 5.4 models... like a couple minutes ago

[echo aurora]

That being said we do have learnings on how this could have been done in a better way though. This is something we're taking seriously

[faint epoch]

gemini 3 pro was also removed, which wasnt included in the announcement

[echo aurora]

It should be based off of the leaderboards, although there is some lag

[quartz light]

i know i know but glm 5.1 hasnt gotten its rank updated

[echo aurora]

It was

[quartz light]

im sure its above 2.5 pro

[echo aurora]

Yeah that's the lag I'm referring to

[quartz light]

its genuinely impressive

[unborn hornet]

can someone explain why the models were removed? Im out the loop

[storm dust]

glm 5.1 is honestly very good for coding

[fast dew]

Cuz they cost too much

[storm dust]

im shocked

[fast dew]

And arena losing money

[echo aurora]

There is more information in this announcement: #announcements message

[faint epoch]

only 3.1 pro was in the announcement, not 3

[unborn hornet]

chat what do you think is the best model to pay for. chatgpt, gemini, or clause

[fast dew]

Lowkey

Gemini

[plucky sparrow]

depends on your use case

[unborn hornet]

mainly coding and other IT related things

[plucky sparrow]

but yeah gemini for overall

how much coding

[sterile thistle]

What are you doing, Lmarena? Return Claude 4.6 Opus!!! #RETURNOPUS4.6
So you've also deleted Gemini 3.1 preview! Delete GLM, Qwen, old GPT models, and return Claude 4.6 Opus to us!

[plucky sparrow]

heavy coding, gpt, less coding, claude

assuming you're paying $20

[quartz light]

bruh

[unborn hornet]

what makes gemini the best overall

[quartz light]

not opus

opus is understandable

[quartz light]

deleting old models will make it worse

people are going to use only opus which is the most expensive

[fast dew]

Why is direct chat free is what i wanna know

[plucky sparrow]

yeah you think it's an accident?

[fast dew]

Then people r just gonna use as a regular chatbot

[quartz light]

because they still train on all of your data

[plucky sparrow]

they want you to use models besides the top ones

[echo aurora]

Hmm looking into. My understanding is it should just be 3.1, unclear why 3-pro is missing

[fast dew]

Mostly on opus tho if u let anyone use it

So all the other models aren't gonna have as much data

[quartz light]

doesnt matter

[crude anchor]

Not being about that, I have ideas: remove useless AIs and tell me the difference between Claude Opus and Sonnet.

[fast dew]

??

Lol

Holy bias

[quartz light]

yeah it doesnt

[fast dew]

So opus should get ALL the data

[quartz light]

wdym bias

[fast dew]

And no other model

[quartz light]

when did i say that

[fast dew]

Thats what u insinuating bruh

Read ur own messages dawg

[proper quiver]

i js want to vibecode with opus 4.6

[quartz light]

no im saying that it doesnt matter what model the chat is used with

after all its still data

its preference data

[plucky sparrow]

i personally think direct was just bait 😄

[quartz light]

if u say no idc

[plucky sparrow]

get everyone here, get arena.ai popularity

[fast dew]

🤦‍♂️

[plucky sparrow]

then remove them, and maybe 5% stay

[fast dew]

Yh this guy is a troll bro

[plucky sparrow]

but that 5% is a lot bigger now

[crude anchor]

They could put ONE AI only in direct chat; using Flow is too expensive for me, a Brazilian.

[fast dew]

Doesn't understand what im saying

[quartz light]

alright, i dont care, im right

[plucky sparrow]

if offering free models for data was the strategy, they could just do that directly themselves

[grave peak]

https://giphy.com/gifs/9mc-sus-sadd-omg-sad-qQx3cLHQ7A6Bqf90U9

again models are gone

[crude anchor]

The gpt is só worst for a Frontend

[fast dew]

So r u gonna sacrifice revenue for data

?

[quartz light]

literally the whole business btw

[fast dew]

Clearly not cuz they removing opus

[plucky sparrow]

the data isn't worth it

[quartz light]

they get seed funding

[fast dew]

And gemini

[plucky sparrow]

they get plenty on their website

[crude anchor]

Nobody answers me 🥀😭

[quartz light]

yeah i know theyre removing it now that there are lots of users

[fast dew]

Which is WHY u should make direct chat pay to use

[quartz light]

no

[plucky sparrow]

they not here to give you free AI, they're here to use you to test models for them

[fast dew]

So the users who actually matter can use it

[crude anchor]

Imagine Claude opus-4.7?

[quartz light]

no

epioxx

[fast dew]

Yes

[quartz light]

listen

just

[crude anchor]

Calm

[fast dew]

Nah I'm not gonna listen to u bruh u a troll

🤣

[proper quiver]

it would do a whole lot better on coding

[plucky sparrow]

but if everyone uses the top model only, they're not getting tested 😄

[crude anchor]

I just asked, man.

[quartz light]

kid

im not a troll

[plucky sparrow]

my problem is, they only show 2 in battle mode

[fast dew]

I literally said people are only using direct for opus and ur response is "doesn't matter"

[crude anchor]

Fr

[quartz light]

epioxx youll understand everything once i say this

[plucky sparrow]

there should be a 4 or 6 battle mode. yupp had an option to "show more answers"

[quartz light]

DIRECT CHAT IS MOST OF THE USAGE.

[fast dew]

CAUSE ITS FREE

LOL

[quartz light]

EXACTLY

MORE DATA

[plucky sparrow]

yeah lol

[fast dew]

SO make it pay so people can use battle

[crude anchor]

W nickname

[fast dew]

??

[crude anchor]

bro

[fast dew]

And the paid users get opus

[crude anchor]

L+ epioxx

[fast dew]

Why r u crying

[plucky sparrow]

i mean if data was the goal, claude could just offer free usage directly for opus

in exchange for data

[quartz light]

and you think that wont impact amount of users?

[fast dew]

Not rlly cuz they can still use battle and the website can get data

[crude anchor]

I'm not complaining, but that would cause us to lose a lot of people, and we like it because it's free.

[fast dew]

And not to mention the website can get money from the people who pay

[plucky sparrow]

nah it'll definitely impact the user count

[quartz light]

they dont need to, arena is a separate company, they have investors, they need to publish datasets to satisfy them and other things we dont know behind the scenes

[plucky sparrow]

like 80% of the people here are using it for direct only, if not higher

[fast dew]

Ok then how about this

[fossil socket]

Pretty sure the reason this website even got popular was how free it was

[fast dew]

Make opus pay to use

[supple scaffold]

Didn't Google itself deprecate Gemini 3.0 Pro?

[fast dew]

Everyone else can be used

[plucky sparrow]

and of all those direct users 95% of them are on opus and gpt and gemini 🤣

if not 99

[crude anchor]

I use it as a home AI, and not just occasionally.

[winter raptor]

on AI studio

[fast dew]

Make opus pay to use

[quartz light]

yes but they would literally lose 90% of the users, please understand that

[plucky sparrow]

yeah but, if they make opus pay to use, why not just direct people to anthropic.com

[fast dew]

Then make it cheaper

[quartz light]

they promised not to make it paid etc

[crude anchor]

I don't have a number to use on Claude, that's why the arena saves.

[plucky sparrow]

that's the thing, they don't want to, so why would they offer it cheaper here. there's no advantage

[fast dew]

That'd probs get rid of most of the bots

That spam it

[echo aurora]

Right totally forgot that, thank you.

[plucky sparrow]

i agree paid would be better than what it is now

but i have a feeling they have no incentive to do it

[sand fulcrum]

oh

[echo aurora]

cc @faint epoch

[fast dew]

Wtv opus is just gonna be off forever then

🤷‍♂️

[plucky sparrow]

possibly yeah 🙁 hope not but..

unless they have some incentive to bring it back

I think the main incentive was advertising

draw the users here and hope some stay for battle mode

[normal abyss]

when gemini got removed opus came back lmao 🤣

[fast dew]

Literally the worst opus model

🤦‍♂️

[normal abyss]

however only these 2 older ones

which is odd

[proper quiver]

and opus 4.6 search 🤣

[plucky sparrow]

they removed sonnet 4.6 again?

darn

[normal abyss]

nvm gemini is here with web search lol

[plucky sparrow]

oh nevermind. it's just lower

[fast dew]

Which is dog lol i js tested it

[proper quiver]

but hey at least it fetches latest documentation

[plucky sparrow]

we need opus search thinking 😄

[quartz light]

im sure lots of the traffic is bots. hopefully, now that the expensive models are down, they can focus on bot prevention in the meantime, which, when resolved, will make it possible to reenable the models

[whole sundial]

yeah gemini 3.1 pro and gpt-5.4 are gone from normal arena, opus 4.5 and 4.6 as well but 4 and 4.1 are back aka the most expensive ones lol

[plucky sparrow]

it's easy to do bot prevention

[fast dew]

Wait so the problem is bot prevention

[plucky sparrow]

just make a brand new captcha (custom made) every 3 days

[proper quiver]

yeah like browser checks

[fast dew]

Yh this

[quartz light]

yes, likely

[plucky sparrow]

like "click the green button"

[proper quiver]

wait probably check the browser\

[plucky sparrow]

nah check browser don't work

too easy to bypass

[supple scaffold]

I don't understand, why removing Opus 4.6 but adding back Opus 4.1 that is 3 times pricier, and worse? Or is it another error? @echo aurora

[proper quiver]

what about the cloudflare waiting page

[quartz light]

thats actually THE worst method lol.

[plucky sparrow]

too easy to bypass also

[normal abyss]

Its almost like the models are actively fighting not to die, they keep coming back when they are removed 🤣 im pretty sure they have gained sentience

[undone saffron]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1340554757827461211/1491229829494739035/dmtdb06.gif

[quartz light]

why are yall sharing this here

[plucky sparrow]

what's not easy to bypass is a continually changing security measure

[supple scaffold]

We are talking about Opus after all😂

[quartz light]

youre just asking for it to be removed at this point

[proper quiver]

what if they add this

[plucky sparrow]

lol

[fast dew]

Thats actually true why r the older opus models being put on direct

[quartz light]

this is bypassable

[supple scaffold]

There is already

[fast dew]

They cost more than opus

??

[plucky sparrow]

search 'cloudflare bypass'

[proper quiver]

and probably make accounts required

[plucky sparrow]

all popular captchas have like 100 different bypass methods

but custom ones? like zero

[prime sequoia]

@echo aurora
Did you remove Gemini 3.1 Pro without any announcement? Really, nothing?

[subtle rose]

Opus hacked Arena servers to come back ✊

[normal abyss]

is this the same price as 3.1 pro?????

[quartz light]

actually, there was opus 4.5 just a few minutes ago, so they mightve just forgot about the others idk

[proper quiver]

or hCaptcha

[supple scaffold]

There is the announcement

[quartz light]

a little cheaper but much worse quality

[plucky sparrow]

if it became hCaptcha it'd be bypassed soon enough

[whole sundial]

$10 vs. $12

[echo aurora]

This is an ongoing process, today's availability is odd

[fast dew]

Wt did the devs smoke

[plucky sparrow]

the only way to keep it anti-bot is to have a fluctating captcha

[fast dew]

🪦

[proper quiver]

hCaptcha and user agent detection

[quartz light]

pineapples

[echo aurora]

There was an announcement: #announcements message

[plucky sparrow]

i'd be happy to bet you $1000 it'd be bypassed.

[normal abyss]

what the cheese balls is this???

[plucky sparrow]

anything that already exists for captcha is bypassable

[fast dew]

We got opus at home

[plucky sparrow]

anything that you develop, will also be bypassable, but it will take time

[quartz light]

its a model from a chinese food delivery company

[plucky sparrow]

so you just keep changing it

[whole sundial]

they have this now too

[fast dew]

https://tenor.com/view/stan-twt-stantwitter-stan-twitter-relicario-gifs-relicariogifs-gif-11979182475974977057

[prime sequoia]

I see .... 😔

[plucky sparrow]

not even hard these days. just hire a very cheap developer who's sole job is to make a new captcha every few days 😄

[whole sundial]

they never added the reasoning version despite it being tested on arena before release

[proper quiver]

what gpt 5 mini gave me

[quartz light]

too blurry lmao

[fast dew]

What did bro screenshot with

[plucky sparrow]

ohh even better

i have an idea, 'create captcha' contest

[normal abyss]

i bet their is 1 crazy person who actually uses "longcat" on a daily basis for AI tasks

[proper quiver]

i just zoomed out on the response

should i upload it as a txt

[quartz light]

this is very bypassable

all of that

[proper quiver]

or a .md

[quartz light]

is bypassable

[plucky sparrow]

if your captcha is selected and wins, you get free opus access direct chat 😄

get the community to develop captchas

[dapper egret]

I got a good number of hallucinations. Might switch to sonnet. GLM is without a doubt a huge leap for homelabs though. Especially with the right context

[vivid sandal]

Oh Opus is gone again lmao

[plucky sparrow]

bot problem solved

[vivid sandal]

It was just a taste

[quartz light]

lowkey tho

[dapper egret]

Top 3 frontier models all gone

[plucky sparrow]

i mean better than just, removing models 😄

[fast dew]

And they replaced it with models which r EVEN more expensive

Which makes no sense

[vivid sandal]

the search model opus still here tho

[dapper egret]

Obviously

[quartz light]

well not really

[plucky sparrow]

unlimited direct chat access is a decent reward. no limit. or much higher limit

[quartz light]

theyre not more expensive

[fast dew]

Yes they r

[normal abyss]

ur profile picture kind of looks like this guy 🤣

[quartz light]

they arent, maybe ur just talking about opus 4.1 but they likely just forgot about it like i said before

[echo aurora]

Would note this is a rolling removal, so right now it's going to be a bit odd

[whole sundial]

they still have this 2024 model lol, iirc it was competitive against o1-mini (i think this one was able to match o1-preview)

[dapper egret]

Ok

[quartz light]

bruh

why did they mention that

[vivid sandal]

XDXD

[proper quiver]

open webui would remove it instantly

[echo aurora]

We're not unaware of this, it just doesn't happen all at once

[whole sundial]

the worst model on arena

this is made to run locally on a phone btw

[dapper egret]

I think the issue is people aren’t buying the $200 subscriptions for each. But yeah the older GPT models for instance are just as if not more expensive to run.

[normal abyss]

that is a lot of letters for a model wow

[winter raptor]

I will remain happy as long as my goat gpt-5.2-high is left untouched

[plucky sparrow]

shh

[quartz light]

yea after all this change is likely due to bots, if it werent removed it was going to be bot abused anyway and would just make less users satisfied over botters

[plucky sparrow]

don't keep talking about it 😄

or it'll be removed 🤣

[whole sundial]

... if your phone has 12gb of ram or more

[dapper egret]

There are so many others that companies never bother submitting to arena

[fast dew]

Jit its already gone

[normal abyss]

they should have just called it "Gemma Mobile 3n"

[whole sundial]

they took those models and called it gemini nano and preinstalled them on pixel phones

[proper quiver]

i guess move to open webui by now

[winter raptor]

Doubt it, it's rather inexpensive

cheaper than 5.4

[quartz light]

wrong.. its actually ibm granite h small..

[normal abyss]

yeah thats pretty decent

[plucky sparrow]

i don't think it's just about the price. but we'll see

[proper quiver]

i guess if there was honeypots and stuff bots would never be a thing

[quartz light]

gemma 4 runs on phones btw
+@whole sundial

[normal abyss]

my phone would probbaly crash the app, iphone se3

[limber crag]

Zamn gemini 3 pro removed too

[whole sundial]

that has more parameters though and it has better world knowledge

[quartz light]

you can probably run a quantized gemma 4 e2b

[plucky sparrow]

3 pro was removed by google, but yeah they removed 3.1

[limber crag]

My bad I meant 3.2

[quartz light]

i tested ibm and it sucked more than gemma 3n

[limber crag]

3.1

[whole sundial]

yeah the e2b and e4b versions, nobody is running 26b on their phone unless it's for reddit upvotes

[undone saffron]

Got deleted

[normal abyss]

maybe, it would be nice to have AI on the go (my phone just rly hates AI)

[plucky sparrow]

is there anywhere that doesn't have internet? 😄

[whole sundial]

i wonder who uses this (outside of china)

[limber crag]

When are they removing nb 2k 😈

[plucky sparrow]

that you're likely to visit

hm i guess maybe

some remote camping site

you go onto your phone, "Gemma!! How do I start a fire?"

[quartz light]

amazing.

[whole sundial]

just so you know nano banana pro is based on the now removed 3.0 pro, make of that what you will

[normal abyss]

let me just "step" in to give an even more unknown one

[undone saffron]

His messages I mean

[plucky sparrow]

https://x.com/i/status/2041112253349442037 gemma how do i start a fire

@levelsio (@levelsio)

Tried Gemma 4 ran locally on my iPhone today

I thought it'd be useful in case the apocalypse happens and I need to ask it for survival tips

Like how to make a fire 🔥

I guess I'll freeze to death instead 🫠

▶ Play video

X · Apr 6, 2026, 11:14 AM

[whole sundial]

at least that's open source and some people do use this (and especially its successor, step-3.5-flash)

[quartz light]

if they asked "im in a forest, surviving, how do I start a campfire" it would answer

[normal abyss]

oh this one has decent users?

[whole sundial]

it's for your safety!

[plucky sparrow]

yeah but i'm freezing here, i'm not goin g to type all that

😄

[quartz light]

yeah step is a good local model

[quartz light]

lololol

[normal abyss]

are the amazon models still bad? i havent checked up on those in so long

[limber crag]

Why did Google remove 3 pro btw

[quartz light]

yes its TRASH

absolute garbage

slop

[whole sundial]

yeah the new 3.5 flash is popular, it's got insane amounts of tokens on openrouter

[normal abyss]

dang, bezos rly fumbled the bag on that one

[whole sundial]

because 3.1 pro replaced it, it can still be used through nano banana pro though

[limber crag]

I mean they still got 2.5 pro running

[normal abyss]

when the first amazon models came out i expected at the time for it to compete with the likes of grok in the future

[whole sundial]

3.0 was still in preview, 2.5 pro is a released model with an ensured lifespan

[normal abyss]

2.5 pro is probbaly my main model now, im not too sure yet though (plus its search counterpart for searches)

for arena.ai at least

[upbeat flint]

oh boy, gemini 3.1's rip too

[plucky sparrow]

yep and 5.4

[upbeat flint]

gpt is ass anyway

I'll stick to qwen or sonnet I suppose

[quartz light]

glm

[normal abyss]

gemini 2.5 pro is old but its pretty underrated

id give it a go and see if you still like it

[upbeat flint]

I know 2.5

used ita lot way back, its technically fine'ish but lacks too much

[flint zenith]

Thebest model now is sonnet 4.5

Bruh

[upbeat flint]

I guess I'll give glm another go

[normal abyss]

sonnet 4.6 also good, however no thinking mode which is sad

[flint zenith]

Real

[normal abyss]

what does GLM specialise in, like the selling point?

ive never tried it before

[upbeat flint]

No clue. Im only interested in jp to en translation and simple scripts for working with text

[quartz light]

CODING

[undone saffron]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1340554757827461211/1491229829494739035/dmtdb06.gif

[quartz light]

better than sonnet imo

[undone saffron]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1340554757827461211/1491232933502128261/18v595z.gif

[dapper egret]

so now the top models are all removed and i'm getting 5x the errors

Love this site cant wait to never return

[limber crag]

Lol

[normal abyss]

your username is pretty cool

[snow copper]

will Claude opus will be deleted on lmarena

[dapper egret]

already has been

[snow copper]

ye i seen on reddit it temporarily

but is it forever

[undone saffron]

It would be great if you didn't come back if they added opus 4-7 and gpt 5.5

[dapper egret]

well. they removed more silently. and I don't hear of any plans to get it back

[snow copper]

alr

[proper quiver]

https://tenor.com/view/vibe-coding-kai-lentit-gif-8970542015069914600

[dapper egret]

they will exist in the battles for data purposes. they will likely be removed from direct chat permanently or have rate limits so high the $200 subscriptions seem worth it (thats the point)

Also expect to see a lot of captchas, another reason they were removed

[mortal ether]

Do you gentlemanly fellas think they should add GPT1 in LMarena

[proper quiver]

or gpt 3

[mortal ether]

ENIAC

[plucky sparrow]

#freegpt4o

[proper quiver]

do you guys think lmarena should add gpt 4o

[signal pelican]

it's dead, let it go

[plucky sparrow]

i actually didn't care for gpt4o 😄

my favourite model was probably gpt 4

it had a big model smell

[signal pelican]

people made a mistake for creating their own girlfriend with it.

[plucky sparrow]

*boyfriend

[signal pelican]

anyfriend

[plucky sparrow]

specialfriend

[signal pelican]

but yeah... it's pretty much a moot point until there's a cheap robot that they can plug it into.

or done the other way around... jack themselves into the matrix

[desert pendant]

sonnet is bad.

like seriously bad

the things i did before now don't work anymore ;p

[plucky sparrow]

what things? ;p

[desert pendant]

coding stuff

[empty sky]

DAMN IT

DEVELOPERSSSSSSSSSSS

[plucky sparrow]

try gpt5.2 high

[empty sky]

WHERE IS MY CLAUDE OPUS

[fluid yacht]

Fr

[empty sky]

I guess I'll just have to cry in my luxury Maybach extension that grants me my opus

And these idiots forgot about the claude opus 4.6 search

[desert pendant]

ppl says that glm and gpt 5.2 are good

let me test them

[plucky sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/voc-fight-club-voron-gif-22209125

[empty sky]

Bro I legit have an extension to show opus but pineapple doesnt let me show

Its because the arena ai government cant spend more money on opus

Wait

Gpt...

[desert pendant]

-# how did dude do this we DON'T know

[wicked talon]

Who got Claude opus removed from canary 🙁

[empty sky]

Not me haha

[wicked talon]

@empty sky I blame you

You told the secret

[empty sky]

Nah, I'd win

[wicked talon]

At least I still have deepseek and qwen

For now

[empty sky]

Qwen is the last to go

[upper remnant]

PLEASE put Opus 4.6 and thinking mode back on there like you just did today.

You shouldn’t just put it back on there after five days of keeping it off, and then suddenly get rid of it and just keep Opus 4 and 4.1 on the direct and side by side chats, that’s just cruel. :/

[wicked talon]

Why?

[empty sky]

Its cheapest

[wicked talon]

Deepseek is ?

[empty sky]

Yk I would give you the extension but pineapple is holding me hostage

[empty sky]

Qwen

[main nexus]

Give it twin

[upper remnant]

What extension?

[main nexus]

Dms r open ❤️

[odd geyser]

The opus was removed from the canary😔.

[empty sky]

Alr so Arena patched the damn thing

Imma rescan rq

[upper remnant]

What do you mean?

[proper quiver]

they havent taken this away

so vibe coding with opus 4.6 search!!!

[odd geyser]

Yeah....

[empty sky]

Hold on I'll fix it

[odd geyser]

But they seem to have returned opus search?

[empty sky]

Then the business starts 😏

[wide timber]

Direct chat Opus and Gemini is gone, but Search Opus and Gemini is still there...

Eh?

[proper quiver]

and direct chat gpt 5.4 is gone but search gpt 5.4 is there

[wide timber]

Funny ahh

[main nexus]

Nothing weird lol, just mean i want him to send the extension in my dms 😭

[fierce jackal]

Why was the model deleted? It was actually good?

[proper quiver]

welp time to go vibe coding

[main nexus]

Money

I guess

[wide timber]

Capitalism lore

[upper remnant]

Ah.

Well so do I then.

[hollow cedar]

well I remember they once turned of nano banana 2, but they sent back it online during feb and march

So perhaps when the site get a better funding, and set up a context window limit for highly expensive models, they may return

[past socket]

dude are you kidding me

no gemini 3.1 pro preview or 3.0 pro or opus or anything

2.5 pro

[storm needle]

lack of funding

[hollow cedar]

looks like the "max" in direct mode can only call claude sonnet

[desert pendant]

not enough money

[near mulch]

no mamen como que eliminaron gemini 3.1 pro

[unborn hornet]

yall know any good resources to learn sql?

[novel geode]

wonder if it's the lack of fund or they are just switching to the B side as they did raised a $150 million Series A at a $1.7 billion valuation in January no?

[viral notch]

guys, what gappened to gemini 3.1 pro?

[near mulch]

se murió

[novel geode]

As they announced days before, maybe the fruit of that 'hide-claude-opus-for-certain-users' experiment is removing Claude opus/GPT5.4/Gemini3.1Pro from the direct/side by side, for cost-control, obviously.

[viral notch]

damn, they're running out of funding

i thought google gave these guys millions

[novel geode]

might be running out of funding, or they're trying to make financial reports better as they're raising investments(just like 150M$ Series-A)? idk

[deft spruce]

ok i found that GPT 5.4 GEMENI 3.1 pro is dleted

[novel geode]

btw google are hitting TPU limits as well, maybe they called for a cut on these free-ish services?

[storm needle]

valuation isn't liquidity

[novel geode]

yeah indeed I know

[storm needle]

millions of dollars every single month in inference

[thick blade]

Is grok model there ?

[novel geode]

tbh I'm quite confused now about the income situation of arna, especially the B-side part

[thick blade]

Anyone

[deft spruce]

yeah grok model is still alive

[thick blade]

Ok tnx

[storm needle]

what is the source

[low heath]

Someone noticed that gemini 3.1 pro is gone, because they wanted to see something out of nowhere, gemini 3.1 pro disappeared

[thick blade]

Wha

[novel geode]

didnt they drastically lowered the rate limit late 2025? and everyday we hear they're 'investing heavily to increase capacity'

[dense sphinx]

So that's kt

End of opus again

And not even sparing from search option

😑

I don't know what they doing

And don't know what their purpose on this one.

[viral notch]

maybe these new models have more expensive apis too

[novel geode]

nodoubt

[dense sphinx]

Hello everyone

[supple iris]

It was possible to keep silent at least😑

[storm dust]

thats actually good

i mean

it is good that search models are back

im neutral to claude opus models getting removed

and other ones

[subtle rose]

Opus-Search also is gone

[storm dust]

oh hell nah

[supple iris]

Also removed

[storm dust]

cooked

[cedar pagoda]

Finding alternative is only option atp or just paying for opus

[whole sundial]

and just like direct chat they kept opus 4 and 4.1 for some reason

maybe it's intentional

[storm dust]

im not going anywhere

[cedar pagoda]

The worst and more expensive models

[storm dust]

arena is still usable

[subtle rose]

This is also temporary

[storm dust]

weird that they took gemini 3.1

sonnet price is the same as gemini

but they took away gemini instead

[empty sky]

Yalls its completely done for

They removed claude opus 4.6 from the server

[cedar pagoda]

Exactly

[supple iris]

The chance that you will get an opus there is 1k100

[storm dust]

bro thinks im obsessed

[empty sky]

Claude opus is completely flat out wiped

Sorry yalls

But i know one thing they dont

Is that I found a security vulnerability

Whichhhh allows me to see their api tokens

[storm dust]

screenshotted

[empty sky]

Ok well im not telling you where it is

[storm dust]

im kidding

[empty sky]

Ok

[whole sundial]

model price comparision (per million output tokens)
opus 4 and 4.1: $75
gemini 3.1 pro: $12
gpt-5.4: $15
opus 4.5 and 4.6: $25
all sonnet models: $15
this makes no sense, why are you taking away models that are the same price or cheaper than what you are keeping? it's not like sonnet is a "low demand" model, it's used as much as opus!

[storm dust]

seriously i was joking

[cedar pagoda]

Iv already checked before in this site it’s not anywhere to be found unless you do it a certain way even then it’s unusable

[storm dust]

literally gemini is cheaper than sonnet

yet they removed it

what if sonnet gets removed...

[fluid yacht]

Maybe its because of amt of usage

[storm dust]

makes sense

[cedar pagoda]

nobody would care

[storm dust]

actually i would care

because it was my alternative to opus

for coding

[restive walrus]

Where is gemini 3.1 pro guy 😭

[storm dust]

oh hell nah

are we speedrunning sonnet removal

cooked

[fluid yacht]

I hope they will at least bring those models back

[storm dust]

wait

[fluid yacht]

Well they blocked those completely i cant even regenerate

[storm dust]

i didnt know that opus 4 and 4.1 cost that much

thats crazy

[mild spade]

even in battle mode?

[storm dust]

dont think so

[mild spade]

oki

[storm dust]

they wouldnt remove it from there

the site is called arena for a reason

we are there to battle unknown ais

companies literally use this site to test their ai models

if i am right

[rigid pasture]

Was Gemini removed? I thought Opus alone was enough (even though they said they’d remove both GPT and Gemini)

[storm dust]

im not sure

[whole sundial]

models that arena currently has that are more expensive than gemini 3.1 pro: opus 4 and 4.1, sonnet, grok 4, gpt-5.2, and gpt-5.3

[storm dust]

wait opus 4 and 4.1 are still there?

[whole sundial]

yes

[rigid pasture]

yes

[storm dust]

weird.

could it be that they are mostly not used?

[empty sky]

So the problem is

[cedar pagoda]

speak up

[limpid rampart]

Damn my cheapass can't rely on free Claude and Gemini 3.1 models anymore.

Back to Qwen it is.

[rigid pasture]

Only sonnet 4.6 is left

[storm dust]

for coding?

[storm dust]

exactly thats my second alternative after it is sonnet

for coding

[rigid pasture]

most advanced models, but for coding too. I used to use Gemini and occasionally Opus. I didn't realize how good it was, I missed my chance

Is qwen good for coding?

[storm dust]

yeah.

also yeah

i tested it

it was honestly good

it is also fast

[rigid pasture]

ok, thanks

[storm dust]

i liked my experience with it

no problem

recently glm 5.1 released

it is also good for coding

i will also test it too

[past socket]

sonnet already removed on mine

[storm dust]

no way

seriously?

[marsh horizon]

?

[past socket]

oh nvm

its there i just had to search for ir

[marsh horizon]

is qwen 3.6 plus the best now bro for arena

[past socket]

for some reason it didnt show on ranking even when I scrolled down

[storm dust]

i almost clapped you...

[storm dust]

well definitely one of the best altenatives for coding currently on arena

[marsh horizon]

opus is so good

🙁

[past socket]

this is so cooked dude

such a crazy list for direct chat

[past socket]

I sortof like it but it sounds too ai-y and doesn't have enough fandom knowledge

[marsh horizon]

I mean there was a search opus but now its gone

[whole sundial]

yeah, gemini 3.1 pro is much better than opus (or anything else) with niche knowledge

[marsh horizon]

thats gone too though 🙁

[whole sundial]

but that's gone from arena too...

[marsh horizon]

yea

best right now are probably open source

thats crazy

[whole sundial]

i do not miss this about gemini 2.5 pro, it's around opus level in world knowledge

[novel geode]

you are awake, but it's 2025 belike

[rigid pasture]

do you guys think they'll bring gemini and gpt back by the middle of the year?

[storm dust]

bro went insane

[whole sundial]

<@&1349916362595635286> are any of you around?

[storm dust]

the heck is that tag tho

i think im saying is right

[whole sundial]

i believe it's a islamic prayer repeated 4 times

i have no clue why unicode made it a single character

ig for convenience? but why does it have to be so big, i think there are shortened versions of it

[rigid copper]

i pretty much agree bringing opus and other models back

[echo aurora]

Let's not discuss politics here please

[restive axle]

has top frontier models been removed

[plucky sparrow]

yes, see #announcements

[restive axle]

kk

back to using my own budget 😔

[deft spruce]

Discuss about models deletion at https://discord.com/channels/1340554757349179412/1489394191435042996

[junior gyro]

Is Opus 4.5 and 4.6 totally removed from the platform?

[deft spruce]

Yup

ALL OF OPUS HAS REMOVED

Temporary....maybe

[rigid copper]

yeah let's continue in this thread.

[rigid copper]

it has to be temporary, but when they will add back will likely depend on them

[sullen creek]

we got opus back

just not the one we wanted

[empty sky]

Its gone

Its wiped completely

Unrecognized

[sullen creek]

no they added opus again

4.1

[empty sky]

BRO

THATS THE OPUS AT HOME

[sullen creek]

wdym

[empty sky]

Honey, we have claude opus at home

The claude opus at home:

[sullen creek]

brah, atleast they addded 1 model of opus back

be happy

[empty sky]

I AM NOT

[deft spruce]

Give me the photo

[empty sky]

Thats it

[deft spruce]

RIGHT NOW

[empty sky]

Its time.

[deft spruce]

.....what THE Fxxx!?!?!!??!?!?!?!

HOW??????

[rigid pasture]

It's available again now

4.1

[sullen creek]

its 4.1 not the latest one

but its still opus

[woeful hatch]

why gemini 3.1 has been removed?

[stone forum]

@echo aurora Can you explain WHY, ARE THERE ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS????

[sullen creek]

money

[woeful hatch]

means?'

[deft spruce]

#announcements message

[whole sundial]

there was an announcment but it got buried

[sullen creek]

models are expensive = many users use = arena looses money = arena sad = arena remove models

[woeful hatch]

oh

[deft spruce]

Hey @whole sundial can you check that opus is back?

[whole sundial]

only 4 and 4.1

[sullen creek]

yeah

even gpt 5.4 is gone

[deft spruce]

Yeah found it it's back

YAY

[sullen creek]

however its not even close to frontier

[deft spruce]

Even it's old that's okay it happy that opus is back

[rigid copper]

pretty much you guys are excited about claude opus (though the version is not the latest) being added back, next time be responsible and ensure fair use of it :)

[woeful hatch]

how arena earns?

[subtle rose]

I wonder how they're going to find a "sustainable way" to provide Opus models

[deft spruce]

Invest maybe

[sullen creek]

they cant

unless they get a extremely big funding round its impossible

[whole sundial]

also btw if any of you are reliant on gemini 3/3.1 pro for niche world knowledge like i am, you can use nano banana pro instead. ik it's an image generator, but it's better than having to use a worse model (but you could just use ai studio instead and use real 3.1 pro there)

[deft spruce]

Funding + Invest + operators part time job maybe

[whole sundial]

vc funding plus payment from ai companies for evaluation services

[sullen creek]

ironically claude is their biggest fund supporter

[novel geode]

earn from b-end service

[rigid copper]

they do mention of how they can sustain arena.ai in their FAQ page

[deft spruce]

.....wait am I only can't find the opus?

Nvm

Found it

[undone saffron]

Someone know if there are alternatives to kaggle that offer more than 32 GB of VRAM?
-# and free btw

[deft spruce]

That can't read a pdf

[dire loom]

Now this site unuseful, nice 👍

[novel geode]

welcome to 2025

[sullen creek]

huh

[rigid pasture]

Poor Gemini 2.5 Pro

[deft spruce]

Welcome back to 2025

[sullen creek]

will they claude mythox

[dire loom]

I’d say 2024

[fast dew]

The arena ai devs r smoking smth rn so have some patience

[sullen creek]

why cant they remove gpt and gemini and other frontier models and give us opus instead

[fast dew]

Cause this aint opus arena lol

[novel geode]

opus is the most expensive one

[sullen creek]

wish it was lol

[empty sky]

Yk I hate this thing

[fast dew]

Its funny cause they got rid of opus 4.6 and brought 4.1 and 4

[sullen creek]

all frontier models are gone except grok

[fast dew]

Which r way more expensive than 4.6

🧠

[sullen creek]

actually?

[fast dew]

Yes

[empty sky]

Just add opus 4.4 🙏

[cedar pagoda]

i still have 4.6??

[rigid pasture]

...

[subtle rose]

Refresh

[cedar pagoda]

i have

[sullen creek]

yeah he wasnt lying

[subtle rose]

Well, I guess it's unusable

[fast dew]

This literally makes no sense dawg

What r the devs doing

[cedar pagoda]

nah i can generate

stuff

[sullen creek]

this is the full table

[subtle rose]

hmm, strange

[fast dew]

So they got rid of the cheaper, better opus models and replaced it with the more EXPENSIVE, shittier opus models

Yeah that makes sense

[shut nest]

Lol

[novel geode]

yeah the funny part is Gemini3/GPT5.4 are simliar cost with claude sonnet

so it's quite funny indeed

[dark valve]

why did when the bot become useful, they have to delete it😭 gemini 3.1 starting to get useful for me and now they just delete itt

[subtle rose]

https://giphy.com/gifs/culture--think-hmm-d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY

[fluid yacht]

Im so confused

[narrow cargo]

lol

removing opus 4.5 and 4.6 is a bad choice for me

They‘re very useful models

[modest nebula]

umm guys did they remove gemini-3.1-pro-preview?

[shut nest]

I would like to inquire of an issue im facing rn building a website , I dont see that (building) animation on that arena site and its been running for the past 4 hours , it doesnt go away nor does it finish when I refresh the page.

[novel geode]

maybe they don't need this much of users to fulfill the data demanded for their evaluation business so

[rigid pasture]

Maybe it's because of the usage? 4.1 was kind of abandoned for a while, but for sure everyone’s gonna jump on it now

[sullen creek]

its gonna be even more devastating for arena now, since 4.1 is so much more expensive than 4.6

[modest nebula]

umm guys did they remove gemini-3.1-pro-preview?

[undone saffron]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1340554757827461211/1491232933502128261/18v595z.gif

[novel geode]

yes

[modest nebula]

😭

[shut nest]

Yeah I dont have that

[rigid pasture]

True

[gusty kestrel]

do y'all prefer opus 4.6 or gemini 3.1?

[sullen creek]

opus 4.6 is like the goat nothing beats it

[shut nest]

Opus

[sullen creek]

i will sell my kidneys for opus

[rigid copper]

opus 4.6 for sure anyway

[fast dew]

Grok

[dire loom]

Gemini at least accessible in ai studio, so here I prefer opus

[gusty kestrel]

then do it and use it on official opus website ig

[fast dew]

I'm kidding btw

[sullen creek]

naah grok isnt that good

[fast dew]

I'm kidding

[sullen creek]

it was a *metaphor

[rigid copper]

gemini 3.1 has lower error rate than opus 4.6 but i still prefer opus 4.6

[dark valve]

YES the model arent stupid, i prefer both

[shut nest]

And I get this over and over for another page (same website bulding)

[sullen creek]

why does this look kinda similar

[rigid pasture]

Token limit?

[fast dew]

Gemini only good for vision and searching crap bruh

[sullen creek]

i feel like im in a bp edit

[fast dew]

Opus better for everything else

[whole sundial]

arena would prefer that everyone uses battle mode, I believe they killed off direct chat with flagships to force you to battle for them (like a gacha game) so they can get more evaluation data as that's what matters the most to them, not your direct chats with opus. this is also why battles in direct exists, they know most people use direct chat so they are trying to incorporate battle mode into direct chat

[shut nest]

Sonnet 4.6 worked (for coding ) just 5 hours ago

[gusty kestrel]

I was using opus a lot lately but I have recently tried Gemini and I really have no idea of what I prefer more

[rigid copper]

i will say the best strategy for them to sustain arena.ai is to remove ai model that ranked the worst in every aspects.

[dark valve]

gemini more accurate for me, if im searching motorcycle model

[gusty kestrel]

gemini seems to actually try to explain stuff he's doing but the manner it talks in is rather ai-ish

[shut nest]

I used to get a text saying that tho before, now its just error

[whole sundial]

this is in addition to the high costs of offering opus and other flagships to users in direct chat like they did

[novel geode]

I wonder if many users use it like a gecha game, they may just spam false evaluation data into the benchmark pool...

[whole sundial]

could've used a combined "flagship" limit of 10-20 per day instead though, they shouldn't have removed them entirely

[sullen creek]

pretty easy to bypass

[whole sundial]

people have already been doing that with certain hidden models for a long time

[fast dew]

Bot accounts can still spam it tho

[undone saffron]

All can be bypasseable

[whole sundial]

not if it's a per-ip limit

[sullen creek]

vpn

[fast dew]

True

[rigid pasture]

Sonnet has this issue where it doesn't always tell you if it's a token limit. You can check the console to see if that’s the actual error. I found out that a lot of those 'something went wrong' errors were just about that. It shows something like: 200503 > 20000 token limit chat

[rigid copper]

vpn and tor still can bypass it

[novel geode]

4.5 sonnet is now crowded into glitches\

[sullen creek]

what are they even doing at this point

[undone saffron]

That's an old problem

[whole sundial]

the 2api people will just max out all the vpn servers plus if arena wanted to they could just deny flagships to ip addresses associated with vpns

[fast dew]

Im telling u should make it so u gotta pay like 5 bucks per month to speak to opus or smth

[sullen creek]

bro there are so many free vpns

chrome extensions and stuff

[sullen creek]

thats not even a bad price tbh

[fast dew]

Exactly and that get rids of all the bots no

Cause they ain't all gonna pay in each account

[sullen creek]

what are the bots even asking the arena?

[fast dew]

Idk they just spamming BS

[rigid copper]

they will just ddosing (spamming) arena.ai stuff lol

[whole sundial]

some may be using it for distillation, I imagine there were chinese 2api services that provided models extracted from arena for cheap

there were open source projects too that allowed you to run your own arena 2api service, make lots of accounts and get virtually unlimited model access

but all of that is very hard if not nearly impossible now

[sullen creek]

arena doesnt have a api service?

[novel geode]

The most funny part is they secretly added a lower token cap->be spotted-> oh it's intended -> removed opus for 'certain users' -> spotted -> oh it's an experiment (and added a announcement AFTER they acted) -> removed opus+GPT5.4+gemini3 series. Maybe they should have just skip those steps between

[pastel ember]

ordered a Hawaiian pizza 🍍

[whole sundial]

they do, but it's only available to a very, very small group of users

[sullen creek]

i think the expirement revealed how much money they could be saving if they removed opus

[fast dew]

Why r they keeping the more expensive opus models is what i wanna know

[novel geode]

and let everyone use 4.1 opus?

[supple iris]

The models that are used here do not support tools as it is in the api, so it is unlikely that anyone uses this for reverse engineering purposes.

[fast dew]

So even more people r gonna turn to 4 and 4.1 and cost the arena even more money lol

[sullen creek]

they could literally just give us opus 4.6 back atp

[whole sundial]

true, they don't but they probably had some use for it anyway

i still remember when arena gave you temperature, top p, and max tokens

[rigid copper]

probably they will just add all models back, slowly but surely, lol

[pastel ember]

lmsys

[whole sundial]

yep, lmsys chatbot arena

[supple iris]

Plus the context window is smaller for models

[fast dew]

yo I remember when i thought anonymous-chatbot was SOTA

If u know u know

[sullen creek]

so this is what they are doing instead of giving us opus back

[hardy lion]

Arena is separate from lmsys now

[whole sundial]

arena no longer has any relation to lmsys, they haven't since early 2025

[sullen creek]

what about this

[whole sundial]

graduated == separate from lmsys

[sullen creek]

ohhhh

[dire loom]

Ai gacha sounds interesting
Also I saw some interesting models that doesn’t appear in direct

[whole sundial]

those are the "stealth" testing models that made arena popular

[hardy lion]

yeah that's the joy of battle mode, you might get some sota pre-release model being tested by. lab in secret

[pastel ember]

Battle mode is a fun way to pass the time, but it doesn’t offer much for practical use.

[hardy lion]

maybe I'm old fashioned, I still use it for real questions and work

[plucky sparrow]

i'd like to, but there's too many useless models in there

[jade forge]

Really useful ones were Gemini 3.1 and Opus 4.6

But they're gone

[pastel ember]

it might throw some crappy Chinese stuff at you and you’ll just get a hallucination, not an answer

[jade forge]

Hope they dont remove 2.5

[plucky sparrow]

jinx

[rigid pasture]

They added Opus 4.1 back... it's more expensive, but anyway, you can use it again now

[fluid yacht]

I js hope it will come back soon 🥺

I cannot rlly understand why they included opus 4.1 tho

[dire loom]

Same

[rigid pasture]

Same

[jade forge]

Cause it was really stupid. Most people use arena because of powerful models like gemini 3.1 but not something like minimax

[fluid yacht]

Agree

[jade forge]

Do they want to lose their audience or what

[hardy lion]

getting 2 often helps highlight weaknesses, of course if both are bad it's not good, I usually calibrate and only ask things I'm reasonably confident a mid level AI could help with

[plucky sparrow]

question, why would they want to keep people who only just use opus? 😄

[pastel ember]

FX-8320e? 🤣

[short sluice]

Ok 3.1 pro finally disappeared I will use ai studio now

despite its stupider rate limits

[nimble atlas]

how to use seedance here?

[plucky sparrow]

would be nice if they gave us more than 2 answers, so we can really compare