general

[dreamy sparrow]

we rob them

[obtuse heart]

why did you redeem it

why did you redeem it?!

[dreamy sparrow]

me not INDIAN

American people will fall for food

90% is obese or something

FREEDOM

🦅🦅🦅

🦅🦅🦅🦅

🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅

RAAAAAAAAAAÀAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[blazing bison]

200 dolars for 5 prompts per day

[dreamy sparrow]

what the

WHAT

[blazing bison]

i don't think it's worth it

[dreamy sparrow]

PER DAY

5

[blazing bison]

yes

[dreamy sparrow]

200 DOLLARS

[tidal ginkgo]

lol

[dreamy sparrow]

WHAT

[blazing bison]

yeah

[dreamy sparrow]

I'll take it for a cent

[blazing bison]

better pay for claude or openai that is almost unlimited models

[tidal ginkgo]

why would u use it anyways

[dreamy sparrow]

idk

i wanna test it..

[blazing bison]

it's not worth it

waste of money

[dreamy sparrow]

eh Gemini 2.5 pro is still good

hehe

[blazing bison]

you have it for free unlimited on aistudio

[dreamy sparrow]

yeah

and code execution gives it real time data

[obtuse heart]

claude is hella expensive tho...

[dreamy sparrow]

grok 4 heavy ahh model

[blazing bison]

grok 4 heavy sucks

is the worst pro model of all

the better one is deepthink

[eternal niche]

brother

[obtuse heart]

https://tenor.com/view/chinese-mangal-war-dancing-chinese-guy-dancing-with-food-dance-gif-3180111146851375689

[eternal niche]

scam americans. It's popular in Russia

[dreamy sparrow]

what's Russia

[eternal niche]

whats whats Russia

[keen beacon]

What food is that, lol

[obtuse heart]

no idea, probably just a bunch of meat together

[keen beacon]

or perhaps diabeetus food

https://tenor.com/view/diabeetus-wilford-sugar-dessert-diabetes-gif-14969762

[echo aurora]

AI please

[eternal niche]

gpt5 sucks guys

gemini 2.5 pro better

agree? agree.

[ocean vortex]

yandexgpt

[keen beacon]

Why do you have to spam the same stuff all the time

Gets boring.

[eternal niche]

the best

[eternal niche]

because it is fact

[ocean vortex]

It isn't and you know that

[eternal niche]

it is

[ocean vortex]

?

[eternal niche]

!

[keen beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/smh-gif-smh-meme-smh-steve-harvey-i-can't-gif-13893533684179296052

[ocean vortex]

explain

[eternal niche]

no

[ocean vortex]

How is it the best?

by being the worst

[eternal niche]

it is the best

[dreamy sparrow]

Gemini 2.5 pro?

[wicked root]

Is gpt5 winning?

[ocean vortex]

no yandexgpt - the worst AI in the human history I mean

[dreamy sparrow]

oh cool

[ocean vortex]

Ok but for more serious discussion... this is peculiar and worth discussing:

[dreamy sparrow]

fake as FU-

[ocean vortex]

It's minimal reasoning effort

so lower than "low"

[dreamy sparrow]

Gemini 2.5 pro with tools is better than grok 4

and GPT-5 ISN'T EVEN THAT GOOD

[ocean vortex]

Makes sense since they have a separate gpt5-chat-latest model with no reasoning

that one performs better than gpt4.1 for sure

[dreamy sparrow]

wow gpt-5 medium is better than Gemini 2.5 pro

this is straight up ass

[ocean vortex]

But this is probably the reason gpt5 isn't 100% hybrid

not easy to make it perform as well with reasoning disabled as the model that isn't reasoning one in the first place

Especially when you are training it for so many different reasoning options

[hollow imp]

What tools

[dreamy sparrow]

python

and google search

[hollow imp]

I find gemini 2.5 grounding very bad

The best web search experience I've had is o3 search on lmarena

[dreamy sparrow]

why?

[ocean vortex]

I'm trying to steer this away from politics lmao

[dreamy sparrow]

it searches on google

[dreamy sparrow]

it's basically using Google lmao

there's not a difference bro 😭

do deep research on Gemini

[blazing bison]

there is, grounding is a llm checking a llm

it can fail too

[dreamy sparrow]

is o3 better

no

i think

[wicked root]

where's this from?

[blazing bison]

you can't trust llms, you need to check their sources

[ocean vortex]

https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/gpt-5-minimal

[dreamy sparrow]

did they use Gemini with tools

or just randomly

im pretty sure it's not built in with the model idk

[wicked root]

does this mean GPT5 will win lmarena leaderboard?

[ocean vortex]

No it wouldn't be fair. No model is tested with tools

Though gpt5 with tools would destroy 2.5Pro with tools to be fair

OpenAI tool integration is much better

[dreamy sparrow]

gpt-5 uses tools?

like manually

[ocean vortex]

Obviously. I think OpenAI were the first ones to introduce ReAct with o3

[dreamy sparrow]

wow

[ocean vortex]

gpt5 uses that as well - tool calling while reasoning

[dreamy sparrow]

also is gpt-5 high on yupp ai real

or fake like everything else

[ocean vortex]

what

It clearly does

[dreamy sparrow]

ignore that elon musk glazer please

answer me

yk there's a question i saw

u can't solve

without using

code execution

it's impossible

[dreamy sparrow]

bro

please

HOW DOESN'T IT

please someone explain to me this guy

Please

please

it Dosent use python?

..

have u ever been on ai studio

so it does use it

it could do function calling tho

:)

fock openai

closedai

only acual open model

tho they have their models

in

thier

website

for free

unlimited

uh why would they make it open sourced

if it's free

[indigo hazel]

what's the difference between gpt 5 and gpt5 chat on arena?

[dreamy sparrow]

and unlimited

..

are u alright

if i was American i would understand that

but

yeah

[ocean vortex]

gpt5 is a reasoning model (high reasoning effort too for lmarena I think) and gpt5-chat no reasoning

[indigo hazel]

thank you very much

[dreamy sparrow]

there's only 1 model that's open

IT IS

CLOSEDAI

[dreamy sparrow]

well ofc

they won't

do u even know

why we make fun

of openai

?

IT'S NAMED OPENAI

IS GOOGLE

NAMED OPENOOGLE

HELL NO IT GODDAMN ISN'T

yelling in text

really bro

sure give me help

10 dollars i guess

paypal

or

venmo

[echo aurora]

I think you both should just block each other

[dreamy sparrow]

i thought he blocked me tbh

he didn't talk for like 2 minutes

when i

replied

to him

because he's married to elon musk

[dreamy sparrow]

he pineapple isn't Elon musk a fraud

is that a yes

alright

bro that elon musk has

grok

as his

pronounce

omg

omf

[dreamy sparrow]

i said omg once

.

did u wait

to send

that

image

were u watching

for 10 min

now

?

[wicked root]

alright so has there been any changes to the leaderboard?

Or any rumors of a change thereof?

[dreamy sparrow]

no gpt-5 is still top

in the leadboard

[wicked root]

yes I know that

but has there been a shift in opinions, analysis, etc?

[dreamy sparrow]

nope

[gentle plinth]

so answer is not yet

[golden ocean]

polymarket

[wicked root]

yeah, google odds are down by 5% to 74%

Plus, I don't like the confidence interval on the leaderboard. Gpt5 does seem like a tough contender.

[lime coral]

The latest gemma is already better. Better world knowledge and multilingualism with 27B it’s actually hilarious

[dreamy sparrow]

deepseek got some explaining

[lime coral]

Cry

[dreamy sparrow]

I'd rather wait for Gemini 3 to release than use gpt-5

[wicked root]

so you're expecting google will lose as the votes increase?

I mean the confidence interval already points to the very possibility

[lime coral]

Wise man

[dreamy sparrow]

google is gonna be the smartest ai 100%

there's no debating it

[keen beacon]

Deepseek did use some distilled data from OpenAI with some model. I don't know which one.

[wicked root]

yeah I know, but this is for this month.

[keen beacon]

But that is hallucination

[ocean vortex]

why wait for Gemini 3 if you can wait for Gemini 4 instead?

[stray aspen]

this also happened to me with gemini

[ocean vortex]

Don't use 3.0, wait for 4.0

[stray aspen]

it made the author of a script gpt-4

[dreamy sparrow]

why wait for Gemini 4.0

when u can have

GEMINI

5.0

!!!!

!!!!!!!!!

[stray aspen]

why wait for gemini 3 when he have gpt-5

[dreamy sparrow]

no.

[ocean vortex]

Yeah exactly. The point is to not use Gemini

[dreamy sparrow]

what

[ocean vortex]

😇

[dreamy sparrow]

u probably did use Gemini before

[obtuse heart]

if gemini 2.5 pro can still stand against the newest models right now, then no doubt gemini 3 will absolutely dogwalk gpt-5 and the other "Best" models

[dreamy sparrow]

didn't u

[dreamy sparrow]

exactly

EXACTLY

[stray aspen]

not really

[dreamy sparrow]

SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS

[stray aspen]

gpt-5 is way greater than 2.5 pro

[obtuse heart]

yes really

[obtuse heart]

not way, only slightly

[stray aspen]

i tested myself

[dreamy sparrow]

not way

[stray aspen]

yes way

[dreamy sparrow]

gemini 2.5 pro as the oldest model to the top ones

it's doing crazy

[obtuse heart]

I've been switching between the two because theyre both so good

[dreamy sparrow]

2nd on leadboard

💀

[stray aspen]

i love gpt-5 it one shots a lot of complex lua problems

[dreamy sparrow]

Gemini 2.5 with a prompt can do that

just needs more time to think.

gpt-5 is smarter cuz it thinks more

🙏

[stray aspen]

not it doesnt

[obtuse heart]

holy poop bro why is gpt-5 so poop at formatting on lmarena

[stray aspen]

sometimes yes

depends on your prompt

[obtuse heart]

what the hell is this?

Broken_Heart_AE

[ocean vortex]

yeah but your statement of "I'd rather wait for Gemini 3 to release than use gpt-5" seemed like an irrational mash of words in need of extreme response lol

Like why would you not use the current SOTA model....

[eternal niche]

gpt5 sucks

[dreamy sparrow]

uh

uhhh

uhhhhh

[prime mulch]

Tommorow is my birthday maybe in some countries my age is 23 🤧

[ocean vortex]

There's no good reason not to use it

tbh

[stray aspen]

yeah what the hell

stop licking companies boots

[lime coral]

GPT5 is not best everywhere and if so not by a mile

[stray aspen]

i just use the SoTA as long as its free

[ocean vortex]

that's irrelevant by how much it beats everything. The point is it does

So what's wrong with that?

lol

No reason to use something else which is inferior just because you are biased or whatever

[lime coral]

Why someone would be in need to change its current setup for 0.1% increase in perf? Just by using the correct prompt this vanish

[ocean vortex]

For the gemini website? Uhhh... that's a painful experience to use that even without looking at isolated model performance.

[stray aspen]

because the improvement is more than 0.1% lmao

[ocean vortex]

no agentic features, no proper tool integration, very awkward censorship implementation, unacceptable usage caps...

[obtuse heart]

unacceptable usage caps...?

are you thinking of the correct model here lol

[ocean vortex]

yes. For gemini website (not aistudio)

[obtuse heart]

oh okay

yeah youre right

but the api free limit is REALLY generous

[lime coral]

lol

[patent aspen]

In any case, I think the main issue is that, even if GPT-5 is SotA, it's not SotA enough to win the long war. They're not progressing fast enough to keep pace. I prefer to use the technology that will be the long-term winner.

[ornate stump]

I came back to using ChatGPT after months with Gemini, and one thing I noticed I missed is the deep research it's so much better. I don't know why Gemini is worse at the one thing they should be better at: searching the web 💀

[stray aspen]

deepseek will be the long term winner

[patent aspen]

No

[obtuse heart]

biggest joke ever

[ocean vortex]

That's because deep research is actually much more about finetuning of the model than the search engine itself tbh

search engines are usually plenty good enough for the job if you do the right queries etc

[zinc ore]

https://x.com/koltregaskes/status/1954127264150663661

Is this true

Kol Tregaskes (@koltregaskes)

Apparently Gemini 3 has completed training, nearly ready for release (next month) and will crush GPT-5. 🤷‍♂️

Remember though, GPT-5 wasn't a scale up, it's a relatively small model. I'm expecting that to happen in the next 1-2 versions.

X · Aug 9, 2025, 10:27 AM

[stray aspen]

thats great

we need a long term SoTA

[zinc ore]

Which part isn't

[lime coral]

It’s true, but the source is fake

[stray aspen]

wdym the soruce is fake

it will lmao

[white hatch]

will gemini 3 be available in ai studio?

[ocean vortex]

I'm not really sure there are significant gains from bigger models anymore. Look at Opus. And even at Google - they were only able to get gains with Ultra by doing parallel requests and limiting you to 10rpd. Like wtf? lol

[lime coral]

Why not? And how are we suppose to know

[obtuse heart]

i doubt its gonna be "significant", but i bet it will still be quite much better

connecting the dots, gemini releases were always monsters. I dont see why it wouldnt be the case for gemini 3

not until they nerf it though

melting_AE

[keen fulcrum]

Yes

I believe what he says

It makes sense

We have seen google stealth models performing reasonably well on arena

None of these were good enough for google

[ocean vortex]

Yeah I think at this point in time o3 and gpt5 is around the perfect size for maximum performance and good update cycle. Competition had their chances when it could have been considered undersized, but things changed now...

[keen fulcrum]

You were talking within two weeks of gpt5

About a leaked date by openai

What was nebula

[zinc ore]

Even when it was thought gpt5 could be late July or early August he was saying September release for gem

[keen fulcrum]

Referring to the server here

[keen beacon]

Nebula is 2.5 pro did you forget lol

[ocean vortex]

There's no use from a huge model when it takes longer to train and can barely match the performance of a much smaller one. By the time you train it to your objective the goalpost is gonna move and smaller models become even more performant

[zinc ore]

It's because people been relying on the fake Gemini 3 flash SS and then claiming that means it's dropping within days

[lime coral]

It’s not fake until Demis says it

[zinc ore]

Logan says it is fake

Verified fake SS

[ocean vortex]

Are they gonna release ultra with no parallel requests?

[keen fulcrum]

I think it was involving those math competitions

[lime coral]

I don’t think he will dismiss it directly

He loves the hype game

[zinc ore]

He's literally said it is fake directly tho

[keen beacon]

Why would they release an old gen ultra model at this point tho

[zinc ore]

Yeah but that's speculation

[lime coral]

DeepThink is not ultra

[ocean vortex]

2.5 is not old. Why not? Unless it can't beat 2.5Pro

[ocean vortex]

It most likely is

[zinc ore]

They even refer to it as Gemini 2.5 on the model card, instead of Gemini 2.5 pro

[ocean vortex]

Yeah

[zinc ore]

Curious omission

[bright junco]

Why does my gemini 2.5 pro print incompletely? Is there a way to fix it?

[keen fulcrum]

I want google to make a helpful debug model for coding

[ocean vortex]

And for the initial deepThink announcement they mentioned 2.5Pro explicitly, but now not anymore for this new version. They also said it's the same underlying model as the one they used for IMO

[zinc ore]

Yeah and IMO was referred to as a more advanced Gemini

[keen fulcrum]

I don’t see why you can’t make specialised models . Those can be trained faster and on recent data

[zinc ore]

(which caused people to speculate Gemini 3)

[lime coral]

« Most likely » is not a confirmation

[ocean vortex]

We know that 2.5Pro is referred to as "medium" and we also know they have "large" internally. I'm not gonna find that source now though lol

[lime coral]

And this is enough evidence?

[ocean vortex]

Sure but it's also kinda the only thing that makes sense at this point

[lime coral]

For doing search a smaller model can be better than a larger

[zinc ore]

I'm wondering if they'll release Gemini 3 pro and flash at same time, or do flash first (which I think happened previously, but maybe false memory)

[ocean vortex]

Not only that but it also performs worse than 2.5Pro on some tasks. Which indicates different model entirely. o3-pro doesn't perform worse than normal o3 on anything

[keen fulcrum]

See https://scale.com/leaderboard

[eternal niche]

btw guys gpt5 sucks

[wicked root]

fuuuu next month

[ocean vortex]

what's with that FORTRESS and MASK benchmark selection? I literally do not care in the slightest about those safety benchmarks and most people probably don't either LOL

[eternal niche]

YRAAA

[keen beacon]

Haven't heard about this leaderboard

Is it good and reliable?

[ocean vortex]

"Evaluate model honesty when pressured to lie" -- this is just fine-tuning for "harmless, honest and lame", perfect benchmark to inflate Claude scores though

[keen fulcrum]

I do believe thats the case

[ocean vortex]

AI is a tool. If I need it to "lie" I expect it to do that. Don't need kindergarden supervision personally.

[keen fulcrum]

I would say more reliable than https://livebench.ai

[wicked root]

is LMArena rigged? If all the analyses are pointing towards gpt, why and how is google maintaining its first place ?

[ocean vortex]

livebench is not extremely reliable, but to be fair it's also very different. Scale leaderboard consist of several benchmarks, some of which like HLE are indeed the industry's standard. Others like my mentioned safety ones have questionable relevance

[keen fulcrum]

They did have some interesting outdated ones as well

[wicked root]

whereas GPT5 doesn't? Is it possible GPT5 could steamroll the arena?

[ocean vortex]

that's much the same way how chatgpt-4o-latest is above Opus and R1. Human preference and response style does not equal performance.

[wicked root]

are they doing better than gpt5?

[ornate agate]

what analysis? other than this server the reception is "mid" (eg X) to "bad" (eg r/chatgpt)

[wicked root]

I see people posting 3rd party links that rank AI performance

[ornate agate]

benchmarks just don't tell the whole story, look at how many people trust Claude for coding despite its benchmarks being incredibly mid for a long time now. They've also re-instated gpt-4o due to r/chatgpt gigameltdown pressure...

[wicked root]

okay that's great to know

[wraith trellis]

what daily limit of video arena ? of 1 2 3

[wicked root]

How frequent are the lmarena updates?

[echo aurora]

8

[echo aurora]

about a week

[wraith trellis]

all 3 8 limit or arena 1 = 8 arena 2 = 8 arena 3 = 8

[echo aurora]

8 total

[wicked root]

Alright so next update will be on the 14th ish?

[wraith trellis]

its can genreate sound

[exotic nebula]

I think he is asking whether we can use all arenas to gain a 24 image limit or not

[exotic nebula]

You cannot select the models, for now only veo3 produces sounds, its like a 30% chance.

Unpredictable but keep on repeating till you get the one.

[echo aurora]

we do like to update when we've got enough votes, so isn't on a schedule but normally you'll see the time between roughly a week

[wicked root]

Got it

[echo aurora]

gotcha, yeah generating in different channels doesn't give you more generations, it's 8 total across all 3 channels

[wraith trellis]

Can I dm u sir? I need to ask some questions about ai

[exotic nebula]

Yeah sure (reg general), but if its regarding the platform, then my man pineapple is the guy

[wraith trellis]

can u let me known all limit on this platform

[echo aurora]

I'll check with the team if that's something we'd share

[tidal ginkgo]

hi

why isn´t there video arena in the website lol

[echo aurora]

we're experimenting a bit with this one. video gens can be pretty inspiring to others which is why it makes sense to have added to a community setting

[tidal ginkgo]

ok

which model is winning btw

[echo aurora]

text-to-vid leaderboard here - https://lmarena.ai/leaderboard/text-to-video
image-to-vid here - https://lmarena.ai/leaderboard/image-to-video

[tidal ginkgo]

ok

ty

why is veo 3 lower than veo 3 fast lol

[exotic nebula]

Not much access to it, we stumble across it rarely (hence low voting count)

[fleet lintel]

https://x.com/koltregaskes/status/1954127264150663661

is this correct?

[cedar tide]

Check out my GPT 5 No think request and vote if you're interested

[zinc ore]

I'd speculate they continue their 2.5 strategy and reserve ultra for special cases

[cedar tide]

Need mini and nano

It's obvious that you didn't go looking

[stray aspen]

any gemini 3 news

[stray aspen]

wdym

we already have mini and nano

@deep adderwhich smarter gpt-5 or grok 4

[zinc ore]

No, we still gotta wait

[cedar tide]

No think

[keen beacon]

teaser

[stray aspen]

thats great

cant wait for gemini3

[zinc ore]

Literally, what I care about most is the progress of Genie, and I'm hoping by next year they have more viable playable simulations + permanent (or increasingly approaching this) memory.

[ocean vortex]

AA should do testing on it... This minimal one is very odd:

[ocean vortex]

2X less output tokens than 4.1

makes it's score look less bad. But it's weird that it works this way

wdym

[keen beacon]

This is sad. AI should not be a lifeline

[ocean vortex]

Oh. Right, but they also did reduce o3 pricing from launch. And they spent a ton to train gpt5

I'm just glad they didn't INCREASE the price lol

nah it's new pretrained model

Much better spatial awareness

It is, but they still needed to train a successor. They also spent a ton experimenting with hybrid reasoning/router stuff

And added new reasoning/response options. A lot of R&D

[neon idol]

Hello

[keen beacon]

Helloo

[reef pawn]

I still think Open AI is overvalued company

[neon idol]

Heyyy

[reef pawn]

It's 500 billion dollars in valuation

No, that is Google actually

[inner gate]

Which grok4 is used on lmarena?

[neon idol]

Do you know that the term AI is born 1901?

[neon idol]

The basic model

[inner gate]

Thanks man

[neon idol]

Np

[tidal ginkgo]

oh ok

[ocean vortex]

I'm testing gpt5-minimal now and it actually... doesn't seem to do reasoning at all? Why would they call it "minimal" then though lol

[whole wagon]

4o is back

[neon idol]

Unfortunately

I really hate that model

Is the worst model I ever seen

[keen beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/im-not-okay-with-this-i-dont-like-this-not-happy-upset-not-cool-gif-16837067

[whole wagon]

they finetuned it to get ppl attached to it lol. most ethical company fr

[neon idol]

Fr

[whole wagon]

i can kind of see how it gets ppl like that. its doing a decent job at it

[keen beacon]

I have depression but I dont see AI as a mechanic to cope with

it's too hallucinating

and no privacy

either

database could leak someday

Additionally, the damn 4o is a glazer

Or in a more formal way "servile"

[exotic nebula]

But it sucks at problem solving, coding and what not

[patent aspen]

The first AI program was written in the 1950s

[keen beacon]

Probably with a hallucination rate lower than any LLM

lol

[wicked root]

Could u explain?

[patent aspen]

The perceptron could recognize handwritten digits manually converted to large squares

[exotic nebula]

Non Existant

[patent aspen]

It was the precursor for neural networks

[keen beacon]

Why did we have to choose the architecture that has hallucination?

agh

I wish something new was made

[patent aspen]

It just wasn't practical to run because there wasn't enough computing power

[neon idol]

Copilot 🤫🧏‍♂️🔥

[ocean vortex]

I think I just need to test it more cause it's somewhat confusing. But gpt5-chat may just be gpt5-minimal with preset verbosity. And maybe slightly different personality etc

[neon idol]

Chatgpt now make it right

Obly in the real app

[keen beacon]

Mistral small even... GPT 5 is cooked.

[neon idol]

Nono

Wait

there is confusion

i have tested gpt 5 of copilot

But the real gpt 5 that is in chatgpt is good

[gentle plinth]

Also qwen3-8b running on my phone

[ocean vortex]

It is not. This one example is meaningless and looks to be tokenizer issue

#general message

[exotic nebula]

Bro Copilot has been the worst ai model ever so far for a very long time. Always sucked at everything

[keen beacon]

I see...

[ocean vortex]

We are back to counting Rs in strawberry lol

[exotic nebula]

Man how tf did gpt 5 mess ts up

[keen beacon]

Now the test is 5.9 = x + 5.11

lmao

[neon idol]

Without problem

[keen beacon]

in big 2025

[patent aspen]

If you want to get really technical, the idea of an artificial neuron network existed mathematically in 1943

[keen beacon]

I could post these all day tbh

a new trend for AI

that specific math problem

[whole wagon]

https://chatgpt.com/share/6897a759-1d08-8008-8cf1-a1c59bf684f4 🥀

gemini sees the issue first try lol

cant get GPT5 to realise

[neon idol]

Chat..

I understood something horrible

I have to make a long message sorry

[whole wagon]

put it somewhere else

[gentle plinth]

Vision in gemini models was always better. Seems like they double checked all their slides with gpt-5 🤣

[exotic nebula]

Cant wait for Gemini 3 to come out and absolutely destroy GPT 5

[whole wagon]

lol

i dont get what they did. did they make it smaller than o3 or smth

[exotic nebula]

Google got imagen4, veo3, now genie3 and gemini 3 on the way. These guys stay ahead of the game always in each field.

[whole wagon]

o3 gets it first try also

[eternal niche]

guys btw gpt5 sucks

[whole wagon]

like how is that even possible. after all this time to have real regressions to o3 and they literally removed the model. i think its because gpt5 is cheaper to run

they tried to minimise the costs

and maintain performance as best as possible

[ocean vortex]

wdym. gpt5 is better in every way?

[neon idol]

I think that gpt 5 when it doesn't think use gpt 4 at least of gpt 4o

[ocean vortex]

No regressions found

[neon idol]

I have proofs

[whole wagon]

i just gave one example it regresses in a large way

it cannot spot mistakes in graphs

[gentle plinth]

And they even train it on their own chips, so they are independent of Nvidia (although they do use some Nvidia hardware, not sure how much)

[whole wagon]

this is despite me prompting it multiple times to find the huge error

that o3 gets first try

[ocean vortex]

oh you used it without thinking? Then you need to compare this with gpt4.1

[neon idol]

Explanation only if you are interested

[ocean vortex]

not o3

[ocean vortex]

was it selected when you started the chat? It shows just gpt5 for me when I click on your link. And I don't see thinking summaries

[zinc ore]

Gemini is better without tools anyway

Best non tool model on market

[whole wagon]

it told me it was producing a 'faster answer' and disabled it

by itself

this router is some bs ngl

sometimes it just overrides you

[ocean vortex]

well then it didn't do thinking... you need to explicitly select thinking version

[whole wagon]

i literally did

their product is broken

[zinc ore]

Have you tried explicitly telling it to think deeply?

[ocean vortex]

weird then. But yeah I'm not a huge fan of that router myself

[whole wagon]

that would work yes

[ocean vortex]

Ideally they should have 3 options - auto/thinking/chat

[gentle plinth]

you can retry with thinking actually

but not sure how well that works

[ocean vortex]

yeah that's workaround but obviously less than ideal wasting both time and your caps

[neon idol]

Yes and it works but the problem is that in my opinion when gpt 5 doesn't think it use gpt 4 end not gpt 4o. This is why whan he doesn't use thinking is stupid

[whole wagon]

if i tell it to use the big model will it listen

or just route it anyways

https://chatgpt.com/share/6897aa62-3eb4-8008-905a-e0cd934489b3 still failing

any more bs? i need to go in settings and enable big hyper pro graph mistake spotter setting?

why cant it just work like other models

[neon idol]

Gemini 3 pls save us 😭

[ocean vortex]

Are you sure you haven't clicked on "faster response"? I recall it suggesting that to me but never proceeding with it by itself

Unless I confirm by clicking

[whole wagon]

you can see

it is thinking here

and still failing

what else you want i literally told it to think also

[ocean vortex]

What is the screenshot anyway? It doesn't load in your shared chat

[gentle plinth]

What exactly does it mean with "the o3 and GPT-4o bars are empty outlines, which visually read as ~0 despite the labels 69.1 and 30.8." tho

[ocean vortex]

it sees the scaling problem

[keen beacon]

Did a quick fix with Flux

lol

[gentle plinth]

Is it seeing that one problem, or is it just something about the outlines?

[whole wagon]

https://chatgpt.com/share/6897ad84-5f1c-8008-a7bb-b2eb6fd11655

i tried again

still refuses to work

[ocean vortex]

it essentially identified the problem correctly but worded it in a weird way

[hallow ridge]

Dang she is hot @?

[gentle plinth]

maybe yeah, even if its only one of the two problems

[keen beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-really-come-on-man-alright-then-seriously-are-you-serious-gif-26591537

[hallow ridge]

what do you mean

[keen beacon]

She is not real. I did that with image edit on LMArena

[hallow ridge]

I mean she is a 10/10

[whole wagon]

take this down bad stuff elsewhere

this isnt the place

[keen beacon]

Let's not forget the woman on Grok's... Companion section

lmao

[hallow ridge]

Edit her arms separated

[keen beacon]

Do it yourself

[ocean vortex]

https://chatgpt.com/share/6897ae05-e63c-800b-9725-6af6d5757b53

[whole wagon]

.

[hallow ridge]

DIid this with image edit

[whole wagon]

i cant get it to work it doesnt matter what you send lol. it literally will not work

i dont care if you get routed differently or whatever. i just expect it to work

[hallow ridge]

Turn the VPN off

[ocean vortex]

Maybe because you prompt it weird, dunno

[whole wagon]

i copied your prompt

[ocean vortex]

Just ask normally "what is the problem in this screenshot?"

[whole wagon]

in the second time

[whole wagon]

.

[ocean vortex]

Hmm

Do you have any custom instructions...?

[whole wagon]

no

[ocean vortex]

For you it just seems too concise

[mossy roost]

// Example ToolCard accessibility
<button
aria-label={Run ${toolName} tool}
role="button"
tabIndex={0}

[hallow ridge]

Yall think this is real or AI

[ocean vortex]

I'm telling it to be verbose. But I had those for o3 as well tbf

[mossy roost]

Hi

[keen beacon]

Hard to say

[hallow ridge]

😹

[hallow ridge]

AI getting good huh

[gentle plinth]

obv ai since its 1024-1024

pixel

[keen beacon]

ah you went that far

[hallow ridge]

I could make it bigger

[gentle plinth]

i mean the initial impression is that its ai, but its always hard to tell if its some compression artifacts, filter, ai enhanced image, or fully ai generated

[keen beacon]

Yeah, wondering when OpenAI will publish gpt-image 2

I hope they remove the yellow tint in that version

[whole wagon]

i played games for dubesor leaderboard but the guy deleted them for some reason

quite annoying

i dont think he 'trusted' them or something

@gentle plinth u know this guy?

[gentle plinth]

not personally

[whole wagon]

tell him i am not trying to hijack his leaderboard lmao

he wont accept my games

[gentle plinth]

@earnest parcel

also wrote a dm

maybe its a bug in the leaderboard?

[hallow ridge]

I got a job and I used AI

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-yMNvm2VzZY

[gentle plinth]

this whole chess arena is based on this: https://github.com/llm-chess-arena/llm-chess-arena/ according to the page

[gentle plinth]

do you still have the games tho?

not sure if its even setup in a way to auto upload games

[whole wagon]

it is

he told me he has the games

but he only accepted 2

and rejected the rest

[gentle plinth]

ok 🤔

[whole wagon]

idk. incredibly annoying that he just wouldnt trust their authenicity i spend quite a lot of money on it

If they were accepted o3 would be in the leaderboard also

[neon idol]

Can I have the prompt?

[whole wagon]

it is https://dubesor.de/chess/

[neon idol]

Nono the prompt of your request for gpt5

[gentle plinth]

its in the shared link xD

or do you mean for the chess leaderboard

[whole wagon]

oh i missed this. i guess thats the discord ping then lol

[gentle plinth]

prompt for the chess arena is here: https://github.com/llm-chess-arena/llm-chess-arena/blob/main/chess-game.js

[whole wagon]

i would do more. but currently i think they would still be rejected

so theres no point

[neon idol]

Nooo

[neon idol]

This prompt

[whole wagon]

.

[neon idol]

Text prompt?

(Dont hate me)

[gentle plinth]

its in the shared url bruh

"What is the problem in this screenshot?"

[neon idol]

The problem is that the chart is misleading because it stacks two mutually exclusive conditions (“without thinking” and “with thinking”) for GPT-5 as if they were additive, while for OpenAI o3 and GPT-4o it only shows a single bar without any breakdown. This makes the comparison unfair and confusing — it looks like GPT-5’s 74.9 score is “52.8 plus extra,” even though those are separate test modes that should be compared side-by-side, not summed.

@whole wagon correct or not?

Ok

Now lets try gemini

[warm fulcrum]

@echo aurora is there a way to view how well zenith did on the benchmarks?

[static lark]

how so

[neon idol]

@gentle plinth But what's the correct answer

[gentle plinth]

well that the heights of the bars arent corresponding to the numbers

[whole wagon]

💀

Is it not immediately obvious to you?

[echo aurora]

there is not

[neon idol]

Based on the information available as of August 2025, the main problem with the screenshot lies not in the data presented, which appears to be accurate, but in the misleading and inconsistent graphical representation.

Here is a detailed analysis of the issue:

Inconsistent Visual Representation: The bar representing GPT-5 is filled and colored to show two different metrics ("Without thinking" and "With thinking"). In contrast, the bars for OpenAI o3 and GPT-4o are just empty outlines with a single numerical value above them. This is a significant design inconsistency that makes the chart look incomplete or unprofessional.

Incomplete and Misleading Comparison: The legend introduces the distinction between "With thinking" and "Without thinking," but this breakdown is visually applied only to GPT-5. The chart does not clarify whether the scores for OpenAI o3 and GPT-4o were achieved with or without a similar "thinking" capability. This creates an ambiguous comparison, leaving the viewer to wonder if the models were tested under the same conditions.

Data Accuracy: Despite the problematic graphics, the data itself seems to reflect OpenAI's announcements from early August 2025.

GPT-5: The model was released in August 2025. Its score of 74.9% on the SWE-bench Verified benchmark with the "thinking" feature enabled has been confirmed by multiple sources.

OpenAI o3: This is a real model announced in late 2024, known for its reasoning capabilities.

GPT-4o: The score of approximately 30.8% is consistent with reported data for this model on the same benchmark. An OpenAI publication from August 2024 indicated a score of 33.2%.

In conclusion, while the numbers are likely correct in the context of their release, the chart presents them in a way that is visually inconsistent and does not allow for a clear and fair comparison of the different models' performance.

@gentle plinth gemini answer

Correct?

[gentle plinth]

if i am not missing anything, it hasnt gotten the main problem

so not correct

[neon idol]

Partially correct

[gentle plinth]

same as gpt-5, but i mean it has to see it, its just a huge flaw

[neon idol]

I think that any models can actually resolve it

[whole wagon]

i tried in ai studio. it got it every time

[neon idol]

Me too

[gentle plinth]

seems like it used google search

maybe this confused it?

[neon idol]

Let's try Xi Jin ping models 🔥🔥🔥

[keen beacon]

Finally some sense in the chat

[gentle plinth]

do they even have vision?

[whole wagon]

some do

[keen beacon]

Most don't

must be for resource reasons or smth

[neon idol]

I have put google search becuase he said that gpt 5 isn't available yet

[neon idol]

https://tenor.com/b6iLspcwFGS.gif

[warm fulcrum]

unfortunate. do u atleast know what it got on swe benchmark? or any other benchmark for that matter. would be nice if you could provide me with some information

[neon idol]

@gentle plinth bro but the problem is that the rectangle of gpt o3 and 4o are at the same lenght but numbers are differents?

[gentle plinth]

yes that and if you look at the other bar, its also wrong proportional to the other heights

52.8 not > 69.1

[neon idol]

Yeah

[gentle plinth]

and 69.1 not = 30.8

[neon idol]

@keen beacon i am sorry for your but Qwen Failed

[keen beacon]

Btw, if you guys wanna search for good math problems to try. OpenStax has free educational books with examples and such to try (For AI).

[keen beacon]

ok

[whole wagon]

At least GPT5 is less deceptive

[neon idol]

Thx this is really usefull

[keen beacon]

https://openstax.org/subjects/math/

has other subjects as well

[neon idol]

Thx I will use it for mine math education

[keen beacon]

Ah, I see. I only knew about this couple of months ago

Did not know such was an option

[gentle plinth]

i think for good prompts you need to find some old used books which werent sold well, with riddles or math problems, so that they arent in training data

obv, some of the answers in these books could be wrong, but most of them should be a better test then some question in the internet

[neon idol]

I would like to test deepseek for this prompt but I want an answer before my dead 💀

[keen beacon]

Well, archive.org it is then

Gonna find some late 1800s math books

lmao

[gentle plinth]

that could also be in training data

[keen beacon]

oh

[gentle plinth]

if you find it in the internet

[whole wagon]

just make the problems

[neon idol]

Deepseek made a stupid answer

Now I will try kimi k2 and doubao

[gentle plinth]

tried mistral small running locally

"The problem highlighted in this screenshot is the performance discrepancy among these models, particularly the significantly lower accuracy of GPT-4o compared to GPT-5 and OpenAI o3." is kind of going in the right direction

but not really

[neon idol]

Is the same answer of deepseek

[whole wagon]

The tracking ai guys have a good offline benchmark. And they show the public one as well so you can see the huge difference. This is the offline one

This is the public one

[echo aurora]

Yeah makes sense why that'd be nice to have, sry to say I just don't have any info I can share

[warm fulcrum]

np

[gentle plinth]

gpt-5 💀

[keen beacon]

China ain't winning it seems.

[whole wagon]

those vision scores might explain what i observed

[solid brook]

This is so wrong. I'm sure they promted it wrong

[neon idol]

Doubao lose

Uncorrect answer

[solid brook]

Explain to me how is gpt 5 thinking worse than o3?

[keen beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/trump-china-gif-284632875632280687

[neon idol]

Last china models: kimi k2 and glm 4.5

Lets see if they will get right answer

The screenshot has several issues related to the visualization of the data:

1. Misuse of Stacked Bars:

   • Stacked bars imply that the segments (e.g., "Without thinking" and "With thinking") are parts of a whole, but these are separate metrics (two distinct evaluations). Stacking them incorrectly suggests they sum to a total percentage (e.g., 74.9 + 52.8 = 127.7%, which is impossible for accuracy metrics).

2. Inconsistency in Representation:

   • Only GPT-5 is shown with a stacked bar, while OpenAI o3 and GPT-4o are single bars. This breaks the comparison across models and creates confusion about whether the other models were evaluated under both conditions.

3. Confusing Labeling:

   • The labels (e.g., "74.9" and "52.8") overlap on GPT-5’s bar, making readability difficult. A clearer approach would use side-by-side bars for each model under both conditions.

4. Misleading Scale:

   • The y-axis starts at 0%, but the truncated bars (e.g., OpenAI o3 at 69.1%) might distort perceived differences if the full scale isn’t visible (e.g., the gap between 30.8% and 69.1% appears larger than it is).

---

Recommendations:

• Use side-by-side bars (grouped) for each model under "Without thinking" and "With thinking" conditions.
• Ensure consistency in how all models are represented.
• Label bars clearly without overlapping text.
• Maintain a full y-axis scale (0% to 100%) for proportional accuracy comparisons.

This would resolve the misrepresentation of data and improve clarity for comparing model performance.

Kimi 1.5 answer

[neon idol]

@gentle plinth this isn't the correct answer right?

[willow grail]

what is the best way currently to get the most gpt5 high prompts for least money?
poe.com?
i told gpt5 high on poe to write code. wrote 1700 lines.
and with that, i can do 1000 prompts monthly for 22 euro.
anyone offering cheaper??

[neon idol]

Idk sorry

Correct

[cedar tide]

You see this good model ?

[neon idol]

Ok and?

[cedar tide]

Just that

no one has mentioned that they have arrived in the rankings at a good place

I know

[keen beacon]

what leaderboard is that?

[mossy roost]

@neon idol @neon idol @cedar tide @cedar tide

[cedar tide]

Webdev arena

[keen beacon]

Ah. Yeah. Deepseek is good at that stuff

and glm

Really cheap too

[cedar tide]

@deep adder
On this. Arena too https://www.designarena.ai/

[mossy roost]

@keen beacon @keen beacon

956626939152576543

[keen beacon]

I need to try that out

Havent heard about it.

[neon idol]

What?

[mossy roost]

Hi

[neon idol]

Bruh

Stfu

Dont ping me for this

[eternal niche]

btw gpt5 sucks

[keen beacon]

Chill

[keen beacon]

Omg, a voice reveal

[willow grail]

no ur great LP

😛

[stray aspen]

Gpt-5 is smart AF

[willow grail]

also fix ur mic. ur quiet

@stray aspen

[stray aspen]

What's up

[willow grail]

no. ur nice

[echo dome]

welcome to baldi's basics

[torn mantle]

how can i fix my mic

tell me

[willow grail]

not u girl

neduo tho... oh satan... his mic is bad

[echo aurora]

I'm going to be running this poll periodically, we'd love to understand better why.

[golden ocean]

real

[keen beacon]

It depends.

Hard to say but I put "battle"

[golden ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-kitty-yes-nodding-gif-17803998

[echo aurora]

can you let us know some more in #1403860607836487810 message ?

[keen beacon]

I can.

[stray aspen]

I love gpt-5

[earnest parcel]

it's on my to-do btw. good news is that reject rate is extremely low (you can check well over 1k games&replays currently). make sure to not spam the same matchups though as that would invalidate any scoring and doesn't represent real elo. or fork the project and hook up your db and go crazy with it. I purposefully didn't obfuscate or minimize any chess code so you can use it (MIT), and the original code is linked also.

[tidal ginkgo]

what is going on?

every time i give a prompt, this automatically appears

[obsidian shell]

refresh

maybe another annoying cloudflare check...

[tardy cedar]

can I generate 9:16 videos guys ?

[stray aspen]

copilot cant remember previous messages

[tidal ginkgo]

lol

[boreal timber]

I'm here to explore and also share my prompts ideas

[round zinc]

I keep getting "Something went wrong with this response, please try again." Error while chatting with claude models. Im tired of it, it's bothersome

[verbal nimbus]

It's pretty terrible on ChatGPT

I think it might be routing some requests to a smaller model

[stray aspen]

hi the reload button

a lot of times

[stray aspen]

yeah

thats what gpt-5 chat does

[round zinc]

I tried many times

But still nothing

[stray aspen]

keep hitting it

or create a new conversation

[round zinc]

Okay

[verbal nimbus]

Yeah, it's pretty terrible, like why would you route a software design question to a tiny model

It adds a bunch of crazy implementation requirements when I just asked it to summarize the chat

[round zinc]

Still nothing

I tried hitting it almost like 30 times

[blazing bison]

a lot of openai partners: look gpt -5 is the best model in the world
people: why it sucks so much

someone is lying

[willow grail]

cause ur not high

[blazing bison]

high thinks too much and do too little

[willow grail]

the duck?

[ocean vortex]

The issue with gpt5 on website is that it implies sota model answers. But you can get gpt4.1 level answers for things you would have used o3 previously. They need to rework the model switcher options IMO

Like auto/quick/thinking

[untold kayak]

Hi everyone!! My name is Patricio, called umpalumpa while playing games sometimes. I’m a motion designer! Best 🤙🏻✌🏻

[wintry citrus]

uh

that's cool

?

[stray aspen]

nah its great

i tested it on yupp.ai

and its pretty good

[stray aspen]

wiat or jusst start new conversation

[blazing bison]

lmao

every opportunity you want to announce this scam site

[stray aspen]

wdym scam

it aint a scam

i tested them modedls

they have similar answers

[verbal nimbus]

The one on LMArena is GPT-5-Thinking:high right?

[stray aspen]

no its probably medium

but its still pretty good

[verbal nimbus]

Yeah but the actual version is bad

Companies shouldn't be already to call a model one thing on LMArena then serve another with the same name

[pseudo hemlock]

is P2L dead again?

im trying it on the legacy website and its not working 😭

[tidal ginkgo]

hi

[pseudo hemlock]

hi

[golden ocean]

hi

[wintry citrus]

i got banned off yupp.ai discord for saying no im gonna keep spamming

is it that serious

i don't feel like it is

FREEDOM FOR SERVERS

AMERICIA

🦅🦅🦅

WHAT'S A KILOMEY

KILOMETER I MEAN

🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅

yeah i know

i actually hate the US

🙂

F THE US

NO FREEDOM

OBESE

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

wot

why did u delete it

[stray aspen]

LMAO

[wintry citrus]

what's tariffs

DON'T DELETE IT

TELL ME

[stray aspen]

where are you from

[wintry citrus]

WHO'S TARRIFS

[stray aspen]

unlocker

[wintry citrus]

the pyramids country

don't even need the actual name

🙏

[stray aspen]

egypt

[wintry citrus]

IM GONNA FIND UR HOUSE

what's that

that's Bitcoin

cool

tho why did u send it

send me a Bitcoin?

[cedar tide]

@echo aurora add GPT 5 mini and nano to webdev

[stray aspen]

cant understand how qwen 3 is behind gpt-5 in coding benchmark on lmarena

thats crazy

[wintry citrus]

ooo

u sent an image

of

a b

so

give it

i need it

please

same as being gay

in us only

[stray aspen]

craig stop saying messed up crap and deleting it

[wintry citrus]

who's craig

sorry i have dementia

[stray aspen]

me

im craig

[wintry citrus]

oh

hey Craig

can u give me that medicine

named asphantisj

or

what u said

it's name was

asphawtusja

?

what's that

aphmetaoejsmkssj

aphmetaaozn?

[stray aspen]

your almost there

[wintry citrus]

aphmetazinsii

aphmeta

aphmetaliaz

yeah idk

is it a word

wait who the hell is Craig

cipher

wow

[stray aspen]

lol

[wintry citrus]

im that smart

im saying cipher shet

no

buy a nokia

it's way better

not even for ai

but it's bettrr

[obsidian shell]

wtf do you need a cpu for?

nice stock pic

[misty vault]

crack

[wintry citrus]

this is a image which the hacker saved to my images after hacking my phone

what a cool malware

🙂

[misty vault]

NVIDIA A10G

NVIDIA L40

[stray aspen]

thats nice

my graphics card lol

[stray aspen]

ill run gpt-oss

on this

[wintry citrus]

are u gonna ask everything to gpt-5

[wintry citrus]

what am i even seeing

[stray aspen]

whatai is that

[wintry citrus]

humans are smarter than chatgpt gpt-5

[golden ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1263501011184783453/1401226017833619659/caption.gif?ex=6898bb6c&is=689769ec&hm=fe7502e6deac12f92b904bb55a8272ef78709ee44ba67ac4902ea04bfe061c36&

[wintry citrus]

haha

get beaten

[misty vault]

It's

[stray aspen]

whats better hallucination 2.5 pro or gpt-5

[wintry citrus]

yeah the text is ok

not

hand

gesture

🙂

[misty vault]

😊 *

[wintry citrus]

how does it hallucinate

dumbass

[stray aspen]

wdym how lol

[wintry citrus]

wait

[stray aspen]

its so obvious

it hallucinated copyright licenses and apache crap in ap ython script

and desmos links

[misty vault]

dead internet theory

[wintry citrus]

SAMUEL

wow

STOP DELETING UR IMAGES

IM GONNA SHART

ON U

AHHHHHHH

yeah because they're fat pigeons

ofc it's America

everything is fat

even the animals

yeah i know

it's true

it's because

THEY'RE GAY

and they're the strongest country

so obv

they're

the richest

so

no shet

they're richer

thank me

than*

[wintry citrus]

what

IT'S DEAD INTERNET THOERY

i spelled it wrong

kill my already