general

[keen beacon]

yea and apache licensed

[sweet tinsel]

Am I the only one that hates the FlowWith AI UI and UX?

[keen beacon]

wow i was curious about the benches for them. i cant believe 4b/8b models are this good nowadays lol

[torn mantle]

time left for google event?

[calm sequoia]

2.5 Hours

[calm sequoia]

The param count to benefit grows in log10 :/

[ocean vortex]

now 10am ET and it's at 1pm ET

so 3 I think

[calm sequoia]

I see, the official start is different. I was looking at legit's event

[narrow elbow]

https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2025/05/19/openSourceAIEditor

open source Copilot, fight, fight, haha 😆

[torn mantle]

thats actually a good strategy from them

[narrow elbow]

yea

also good for agent ecology and public users

[cedar tide]

like my post so that "lm arena" can see it 👇
https://discord.com/channels/1340554757349179412/1374391922768216064

Add Filters to the Leaderboard

• Maximum cost per token
• Model type: Thinking / Not Thinking
• Maximum number of parameters
• License type: Open source / Closed
• Year of release
• Organization selector

[elder rapids]

been using ai studio for the past few hours

the performance is different, not because the CoT changed or whatever

it's weird

it keeps spamming \n\n in its thought process

[high ginkgo]

agi in 2 hours and 20 minutes

[echo aurora]

we see it 👍

[silk seal]

hey guys ,
what do you ppl use for productivity tracking or journaling ?

[red sluice]

cutiepie-75 not that bad honestly if it's a public model it should be ranked quite high

[misty vault]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1294096350589353997/1374100374301966356/ultra-gpt-5.gif?ex=682d7af2&is=682c2972&hm=de859c78a1add2d2992b975adaf77e4ff2901ce8532d305e994d46b95e7cf71e&

[keen beacon]

new gemma/gemma anon model

[keen beacon]

is it summarizing for you now?

wow i hate this

[cedar tide]

@calm sequoia why you deleted your message ? With the list of the gemini model

[cedar tide]

Thx

[torn mantle]

just release grok 4

already

and it will be bad

x.com got -5% on traffic last month

and it will keep decreasing

thats what we want

so he can wake up a bit

yea

[civic flame]

grok sucks balls

[torn mantle]

it got like -10% or so

let elon bath them in more money

[civic flame]

we shall see

[torn mantle]

grok 5 will be the best

wait

[civic flame]

if grok 4 is the best it won't be for long

[torn mantle]

whos deleting my messages

pineapple

is that you

[civic flame]

☠️

alright

[fleet lintel]

I am very bullish on grok 11

[torn mantle]

cant wait for google event

[civic flame]

you're going to die on the streets after losing all your money and having your stuff repossessed before you die of old age

:3

[torn mantle]

should be awesome

[civic flame]

real

[sage raptor]

2 hours left

[torn mantle]

[civic flame]

looking like it'll be the best io ever

[sonic tendon]

?

what's a gonna happen

seems like no new gemini model (at least, no lmarena reveal)

[keen beacon]

logan said gemini

[civic flame]

gemini 2.5 deep thinking
gemini 2.5 ultra (?... hopefully)
imagen 4
imagen 4 ultra
veo 3

[sonic tendon]

he did?

[keen beacon]

yea

[civic flame]

there will be lol

[keen beacon]

dont forget gemma

[civic flame]

yeah and that

[keen beacon]

theres an anon gemma model

cutiepie-75

[civic flame]

it's pretty good for gemma

[misty vault]

Did you know in portal 3 Glados released so much neurotoxin that it caused apeture science facility to expand in size? For more information search "Glados inflation"

[wintry locust]

i dont think ultra is coming lowkey

[sonic tendon]

what makes you say that, ooc

[sonic tendon]

yeah, same

the only thing testing on arena rn is calmriver and it's

sorta garbage

[civic flame]

logan

[wintry locust]

Our Only Hope Is 4 Opus

[misty vault]

and the return of gpt-4-0314

[civic flame]

and the fact all of GDM's team have been hyping up a new gemini [ultra] for weeks

[civic flame]

I think it's possible it doesn't come at I/O but is launched in like July

we shall see though

hopefully today

i also expect o3 pro today (finally)

and possibly an elusive anthropic launch on thursday

but idk about a new model

[misty vault]

Thanks, I didn't get it the first time

[sonic tendon]

oh, speaking of

[keen beacon]

am sorry 😦

[sonic tendon]

did you ever get to test neptune again

[civic flame]

the information leaked they're launching a new version of sonnet and opus in the "coming weeks'

so perhaps they finally release 3.5/3.7/4 (?) opus

they really need to fix that naming scheme

[sonic tendon]

nahh, it's charming

very openai

[civic flame]

it's just Claude 3.7 Sonnet with a new safety system so 😔

[sonic tendon]

ah, rip

did that thing end up working, ooc

[civic flame]

haven't tried it sorry ive been busy

[sonic tendon]

all good lol

no presh

idk, ultimately my bet's like 70% on gemini ultra not coming out at i/o

(figuratively speaking)

[civic flame]

is there a betting market for this

mr pro gambler

[sonic tendon]

yes

gambling!!!

[civic flame]

what is it

[brittle tiger]

IO predictions
Most impressive moments/demos:
2.5 Deep Think w/ crazy benchmarks
Flow (+Veo 3, Imagen4)
Jules

Unexpected but would rule:
New AlphaEvolve results using Gemini 2.5 instead of 2.0
New TPU

Probably not gonna happen:
2.5 Ultra (Gemini Ultra is likely name of higher paid tier)

[sonic tendon]

here's the dumb one: https://kalshi.com/markets/kxtopmodel/top-model#kxtopmodel-25may

dumb because some guy's making 0.75% a month off of people that don't understand how lmarena works

[civic flame]

lmao

kalshi 💔

[civic flame]

what's the other

[sonic tendon]

https://kalshi.com/markets/kxcodingmodel/best-ai-coding-model this one's for livebench coding

and then the main one is

https://kalshi.com/markets/kxcodingmodel/best-ai-coding-model

kalshi has a ton of ai markets

there's also https://kalshi.com/markets/kxmodelhigh/model-hitting-thresholds#kxmodelhigh-26

which is also somewhat dumb considering that they could change how elo is calculated at any time

[civic flame]

someone should do the "AI" counter for sundai

[sonic tendon]

sundai?

[civic flame]

the 2023 io with just clips of him saying AI is still funny

[elder rapids]

yep

[civic flame]

sorry Sundar*

☠️

[sonic tendon]

yeahhh

[sonic tendon]

oo yeah that'd be fun

[sonic tendon]

kalshi is genuinely a super nice platform

they refunded me like 20 bucks for a ui bug one time

and you can just
ping staff in the discord

but yeah - still doing the gambling thing, but a little more structured after i lost a bunch of money betting on other people betting on a model that definitely wasn't going to win

[tall summit]

META BETTING ???

[sonic tendon]

i also made yet another polymarket alt, as my second alt also got banned

[sonic tendon]

yep

[civic flame]

for what ☠️

[sonic tendon]

tried to time the alibaba release, but it happened too close to the end of the month

[ocean vortex]

speaking of which... it's ironic af that people swear by 4.1 but vote for chatgpt-latest lmao

[sonic tendon]

wait, what market is this in reference to

[keen beacon]

chatgpt latest is a more human preferable version

[sonic tendon]

region restrictions, again

apparently they really dislike mullvad

[ocean vortex]

elo score reference not market reference 😠

[sonic tendon]

oh

could be two different demographics

[ocean vortex]

yeah but people keep saying they allegedly prefer 4.1 which is funny

[civic flame]

ew..

[keen beacon]

i mean if its more human preferable it makes sense some people might like it more in terms of style/etc

[sonic tendon]

ah

i could definitely be wrong

oh...

i mean, i would be surprised if they didn't play a role in the CFTC getting fussy about polymarket

i had no idea about the raid though

[ocean vortex]

elo score is the opposite. 4.1 is lower

[narrow elbow]

I don’t think any gambling platform has a fair backend algorithm. All dealers will manipulate data, including the President of the United States. 🤪

[sonic tendon]

?

[keen beacon]

chatgpt latest is lower than 4.1?

[civic flame]

oh hi

[ocean vortex]

??
people say they prefer 4.1 over chatgpt-latest. Elo score is opposite of this

[sonic tendon]

the order book is viewable to everyone

[keen beacon]

oh i read ur stuff inverted lol

openai said it was more coding focused

it might be more preferable in coding contexts

[narrow elbow]

So I can't create data?

[sonic tendon]

kalshi does have a "satellite company" that trades on the exchange but afaik they don't have any communication between them and the core staff of the exchange

[sonic tendon]

wdym by data

[narrow elbow]

order data?

Betting data?

[sonic tendon]

i mean, you can wash trade

but kalshi would probably doxx and ban you, and on polymarket almost everything is public

[narrow elbow]

ok you win

[sonic tendon]

it definitely does happen on polymarket to some degree

wash trading, i mean

and insider trading

[sonic tendon]

somewhat surprisingly, i actually seem to perform a lot better trading with $5 than trading with $50

a lot less vulnerable to panic buying/selling, probably

[misty vault]

gpt-4

[sonic tendon]

wdym? that makes sense, just curious about the details

i have a ~$50 bankroll on there rn, ~$10 on polymarket (originally $5)

[cedar tide]

the difference in efficiency between open ai and google 😶
(and both have the same performance)

[sonic tendon]

the yapper

[sonic tendon]

but yeah, all of the 2.5 models seem to use a ton of unnecessary formatting and writing in their thinking process - surprisingly, giving 2.5 pro claude's system prompt decreases thinking token usage a ton

that's... probably a good idea

conviction seems to be my main issue

[elder rapids]

@keen beacon you can force the thinking process via "<ctrl95>" and asking it to use them during it

it shows the real thought process

[keen beacon]

i think u tagged the wrong guy

yeah i just saw that

might degrade perf a little

[sonic tendon]

my thoughts too

[sonic tendon]

same for this

i should probably benchmark it, come to think of it

[keen beacon]

man i loved gemini for sharing the full thought process, i dont know what to feel now that they're trying to hide it more now

[sonic tendon]

wait, how so?

[keen beacon]

its a summary only now

[sonic tendon]

speaking of which: i feel like this is probably what logan was Geminiing

[keen beacon]

maybe

[sonic tendon]

oh, even in ai studio?

[civic flame]

I doubt Logan would Gemini a pretty irrelevant model for the average person

[keen beacon]

yup 😦

[torn mantle]

@keen beacon seems like they are summarizing the CoT

[keen beacon]

yea

[torn mantle]

also they seem to have used a smaller model

[civic flame]

it'll be 2.5 pro deep yada yada minimum, and then possibly an ultra

[sonic tendon]

new verb just dropped

[torn mantle]

the thinking process time got much shorter

18s vs 40s same prompt

i had that recorded

not sure tho

[civic flame]

they've nerfed it so deep research looks better

(that's just a conspiracy but it wouldn't entirely surprise me)

[keen beacon]

0 temp, top_p 1?

[sonic tendon]

me neither

[keen beacon]

man i hate these cot summaries

on chatgpt i gave it a problem, and it was talking about and concluded the opposite in the cot summary (incorrect) then responded with "Correct."

[sonic tendon]

https://kalshi.com/markets/kxcodingmodel/best-ai-coding-model
i may have bought gemini at 10c on this
probably a bad idea

(lmk if you guys are tired of me talking about gamblprediction market trading on here)

[torn mantle]

default ones

ive never played with the parameters tbh

0.95 temp

[keen beacon]

yeah cuz of sampling, u cant really tell that much

[torn mantle]

i mean temp will only matter if the prompt is kinda creative oriented

[keen beacon]

depends on the prompt

[keen beacon]

not always

[torn mantle]

if its a reasoning problem

then i would expect it to follow the normal distribution

[keen beacon]

if u ran it several more times itd probably be a better signal

[torn mantle]

old gemini cot was kinda overwhelming, never read it tbh

[keen beacon]

i didnt find it overwhelming at all tbh

[torn mantle]

i could see myself going through this one

i just wanst a fan of listing etc...

it was too much

im okay with bullets/listing in final output but surely not in cot

[keen beacon]

eh its how it reasons

[torn mantle]

ik

[keen beacon]

i hope they dont prefill the thinking tag now 😅

[echo aurora]

btw anyone is encouraged to join me in #1340554757827461215 if you're looking for some lofi

[misty vault]

gpt-4-0314

[lime coral]

Gemini 4.5 ultra deep ultra thinker

It’s actually happening

[tall summit]

nah there's a decent chance

[tall summit]

discussion about prediction markets gets obnoxious in the same way that investing discussion does

[keen beacon]

nah apple will unleash asi out of the blue 🔥

its both

[silk haven]

New Gemini flash

Vertex

[elder rapids]

not unnecessary, this is what they trained it on

[elder rapids]

nice

[elder rapids]

wonder if o3 pro will release too

if not then it's still going to be 2.5 pro

[sonic tendon]

oh yeah, wonder if this is what Logan Geminied

opendyslexic system font?

[sonic tendon]

how's that

[sonic tendon]

yes, but it's quite the long shot

Gemini just sucks at this, apparently

[misty vault]

fr

[sonic tendon]

nice

oh, that's interesting

i also have ADHD (and pretty bad EF issues more generally) but I haven't really used LLMs for that

[misty vault]

gpt-4 sydney girlfriend for mental health

[sonic tendon]

what exactly do you do w it

could you give like
an example prompt from a chat that helped you out

[keen beacon]

Oh there's Gemma 3n

https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-3n-E4B-it-litert-preview

[high ginkgo]

when imagen 4

[patent bane]

lets go

[torn mantle]

Intro by veo 3

[keen beacon]

New flash is live on aistudio already

[brittle tiger]

intro was so insane. can't wait to play with veo 3

[torn mantle]

Lmarena folks

Claude is shaking

Cursor mentioned

[patent bane]

API artificial pokemon intelligence mentioned

450 trillion tokens is crazy

[elder rapids]

Google beam??

[patent bane]

beam

holy

[elder rapids]

nice asf

[patent bane]

holy sh

I need to lower my hype or else i'll explode

[elder rapids]

the examples are funny

😭😭

[patent bane]

sick convertible

[elder rapids]

deadass

alr mariner here we go

[brittle tiger]

gpt-glaze would be so funny answering those questions. "you're so smart. what an amazing convertible.... you gotta run from that person chases you"

[elder rapids]

ong

alright mariner bro please

NICEEE

API

agent mode???

personalization used to only use Google searches

[torn mantle]

Google are cooking

Join pineapple on voice channel

[elder rapids]

it doesn't think less

[torn mantle]

Nice

[elder rapids]

ye

it's a strong model in my testing already but I'ma wait until after io

to test it more

they're already going hard asf

[keen beacon]

At least it isnt summarized

The thoughts

[elder rapids]

ye

demis my goat

they went past 2.5 pro

[cedar tide]

New gemma available on the ai studio

[elder rapids]

yep

filler episode incoming

bruhhh

[echo aurora]

streaming i/o 👍

[silk haven]

Wow

[patent bane]

so no gemini 2.5 ultra or deepthink =((

[elder rapids]

ngl insane

[elder rapids]

they left 2.5 pro there on purpose

[cedar tide]

And new gemma

[elder rapids]

what's the size tho

it'd be crazy if it were 4b

[keen beacon]

It's a new architecture

[cedar tide]

4B active but more in total

[keen beacon]

Effectively 4b

[cedar tide]

We dont have the number now

[kind cloud]

New flash ranked 3rd(webdev arena)

[elder rapids]

that's crazy

holy sht

[brittle tiger]

calmriver?

[elder rapids]

WHERE is nw or drakesclaw

PLEASE bro

[kind cloud]

aistudio canvas?

[hazy quest]

Is there any live chat commenting on the I/O ? Unfortunately they turned off the live chat on youtube

And I cant see any thread on r/singularity

[elder rapids]

2.5 pro has url context

[misty vault]

social_credit

[patent bane]

what does that do

[elder rapids]

prolly can search the specific website you gave it now

let's see

btw new thinking gauge for 2.5 pro

Gemini diffusion??????

HOLY

[alpine coral]

wow

[unborn ocean]

they be cooking

[elder rapids]

2.5 pro deep think

🙏🙏🙏

[unborn ocean]

yeah

"more time to think"

[patent bane]

DEEPTHINK MENTIONED

[sage raptor]

no way

[unborn ocean]

yes let's go

[keen beacon]

It's like o1 pro with parallel requests I guess

[elder rapids]

YO GET THOSE BENCHMARKS

[sage raptor]

Rip O3

[torn mantle]

Nah google are next level

[elder rapids]

YOOOIO

mobile agent

[leaden meteor]

Does this mean nightwhisper was deep think?

[elder rapids]

if so then it never seemed to think so much longer

[barren prairie]

RIP open ai

[sweet swift]

While the whole world is living in 2025 google already in 2030

[leaden meteor]

Wonder why they let flash 5-20 come out but not deep think or nw yet ..

[ocean vortex]

uhh nice

Also good move on using new benchmark for math

past ones are fairly saturated

[barren prairie]

To make Sam altman angry 🙂 🤝
But it will come

[patent bane]

chill

he is nervous

[sweet swift]

will the same problem like with gemini 2.5 pro 05 06 be?

[ocean vortex]

what problem

there is no problem

😇

[elder rapids]

bruh

250$ ultra plan

cooked

[ocean vortex]

WHAT. Will probably be able to use for free on aistudio lmao

[keen beacon]

Where did they announce it

[elder rapids]

nah

[sage raptor]

lol

[ocean vortex]

where have you heard about it? They are talking about some useless "AI mode" now

[sweet swift]

I'm about lmarena. If the connection isn't good gemini pro can glitch and just generate an answer for infinitely time.

[ocean vortex]

that's not a model problem though. It works as intended on other platforms

[silk haven]

https://x.com/googleai/status/1924886736049475995?s=46&t=P8-tRi_JAVcI6l5U6nOT4A

Google AI (@GoogleAI)

Gemini began as a collaborative effort between research and engineering to build a multimodal, scalable AI foundation model.

Today, Gemini 2.5 is our most intelligent model series to date.

X · May 20, 2025, 5:55 PM

[keen beacon]

Seems 2.5 ultra isn't gonna come out at io lol I'm gonna go to bed. Hopefully it'll come out someday lmao

[ocean vortex]

if you have unstable internet connection maybe that messes with lmarena

[keen beacon]

The new Gemma model might be interesting but it's a snooze fest rn

[ocean vortex]

deep think mode is released for "trusted testers" 💀

meaning it's announcement of the announcement

[elder rapids]

😭

mariner coming to ai mode tho

ay what'd I say

predicted the io

[keen beacon]

I think ultra exists or it might've just been bait by employees lol

[elder rapids]

could tbh

sucks we'll never get it

[keen beacon]

Maybe if it comes out it comes out. I'll just stop yapping about it until something happens

[sweet swift]

so, i'm not about problems with specifically gemini flash 🙂 . I just can't use aistudio so lmarena is my the only option to use gemini.

[elder rapids]

means they're adding limits to advanced

to remove them for ultra

[elder rapids]

ye

[keen beacon]

I don't think you can even branch on the Gemini product

[elder rapids]

doesn't think less

also btw we're still waiting for veo and imagen

[patent bane]

was this in the live

[hazy quest]

AI edit with consistent/unchaged face, that's awesome

Good potential

[elder rapids]

they already said this tho

why are they reiterating 2.5 flash is coming to overviews and AI mode

[torn mantle]

Thanks openai

250$/month

The frustrating part here is that all of these tools arent available yet and will come first for US users

[elder rapids]

yep

[hazy quest]

Hope that AI Studio will keep existing for a while

[elder rapids]

disappointed asf

[patent bane]

can I sleep (peacefully) now?

[keen beacon]

There's veo and imagegen

[torn mantle]

They are talking about tactical features, timeframe - > next 5 months

Like all the good stuff wont be released

Deep think, ai overview on for US, project mariner, project astra

All limited

[elder rapids]

yep

[balmy mist]

i just got back, what i miss?

[elder rapids]

the io isn't releasing anything

[balmy mist]

lmaoo

[torn mantle]

Yea

[balmy mist]

bruhh

no nw?

[keen beacon]

2.5 pro deep think like o1 pro for 2.5 pro lol

[torn mantle]

No

[balmy mist]

im done

[keen beacon]

Early testers only for now

[elder rapids]

disappointment is immeasurable

won't even be able to use Veo 3

[torn mantle]

Let's see imagen 4

[elder rapids]

nor imagen 4

watch

[torn mantle]

And veo 3

[balmy mist]

wait io is multiple days?

[torn mantle]

Not yet

Probably later on the event

[misty vault]

did they mention imagen 4

[elder rapids]

nah I mean like never

they're releasing it

[torn mantle]

I think we will get it today

[elder rapids]

but we're not going to be able to use it

[elder rapids]

no shi

not what I'm saying

[torn mantle]

They are talking about gemini live, do you guys have it?

Or is it also limited

[elder rapids]

I've had it for like a month

[torn mantle]

Aa wait

Im looking forward to notebook lm new feature

[elder rapids]

surprise me Google

[torn mantle]

The video previews

[elder rapids]

😭 🙏

[elder rapids]

yep

all I want

[torn mantle]

https://x.com/testingcatalog/status/1924891880917004509

TestingCatalog News 🗞 (@testingcatalog)

BREAKING 🚨: Video Overviews are coming to NotebookLM. Starting with English support at first!

X · May 20, 2025, 6:16 PM

Oh

Looks good

They still didn't introduce that on the keynote

Disappointing deep research didn't get s performance update

[elder rapids]

this means they're adding limits to everything

including video overviews prob

[keen beacon]

https://ai.google.dev/gemma/docs/gemma-3n if anyone's interested this is up now lol

[torn mantle]

What's this

Lol available only in the US

[hazy quest]

Lets go

[unborn ocean]

imagen 4

[keen beacon]

Their new Gemma model

[hazy quest]

Struggling with words is so Mars 2025

[torn mantle]

Probably available only in the US

Veo 3

Clap clap

[hazy quest]

Available today, he didnt mention US only

[torn mantle]

Ouuuf

So close

[elder rapids]

nobody gets it

[hazy quest]

On espere

[torn mantle]

Wait what

It can

[elder rapids]

besides ultra subscribers

[misty vault]

who cares though

[elder rapids]

YOOOOOOOO

[misty vault]

Just enable some free browser vpn is all thats needed to bypass imagefx unsupported country

[elder rapids]

LOOK AT THE VIDEO

[unborn ocean]

holy

[misty vault]

omaygot veo 3

[unborn ocean]

social media is about to be flooded

[elder rapids]

ngl disappointed but it's alright

few more weeks until something else releases

[keen beacon]

What did you expect lol

[elder rapids]

exactly what I told you

[ocean vortex]

ultra pro max

[torn mantle]

Woah

[keen beacon]

Oh I thought you were disappointed with veo

[elder rapids]

oh nah

[torn mantle]

Veo 3 looks awesome

[elder rapids]

I meant with the overall event

[elder rapids]

deadass

it's insane

[torn mantle]

What's this

[ocean vortex]

honestly it's more than expected

in the past these events were nothing burgers for them

[keen beacon]

It might still come (ultra) or employees are just trolling lmao

[elder rapids]

I mean it's nothing new tbh, they're just releasing things I've always had access to

[ocean vortex]

deep think

[elder rapids]

and announcing things no one will have access to

like deep thinking

no in-between

[keen beacon]

Pay 250 a month

[ocean vortex]

we do not know yet, but hopefully it will be accessible eventually

[elder rapids]

ts more expensive than chatgpt pro 😭😭

how do you manage to top that

[keen beacon]

Yeah it's an absurd price

[elder rapids]

Gemini ultra

[keen beacon]

Their new plan

Why would you pay that

[elder rapids]

synthID?

[ocean vortex]

it's lower price for the first 3 months

but yeah

[elder rapids]

yep, nothing burger tho

[keen beacon]

I don't think you can even branch on the Gemini product c'mon bruh

[elder rapids]

everything

but there's no intermediate plans

so either you pay 250 to have access to everything

[misty vault]

image 4 already available

[elder rapids]

or pay 20 for regular shi

not even the new stuff

[ocean vortex]

they did announce smth. As much as it sucks, announcing things that you can't immediately test has kinda became the norm now. Everyone is doing it

[keen beacon]

Anthropic at least drops stuff immediately

[elder rapids]

nothing

[keen beacon]

For the most part

[elder rapids]

it's nothing besides Veo 3 and imagen 4

but the problem is they're adding limits

to all this stuff now

AI studio prob gonna be useless

[torn mantle]

deep think is their response to o3 pro?

[ocean vortex]

OpenAI used to too. Not anymore. Anthropic is the small offender for now but iirc some of their more recent releases had delays too

[keen beacon]

Parallel requests yeah

[elder rapids]

nah not at all

it's an innocent release

[torn mantle]

i think that was the vision, start by pulling in more users -> convert to a profit lab later

the 250$/month is ridiculous

[ocean vortex]

like they announced new Haiku before releasing for sure

[torn mantle]

openai played a huge role in that

[keen beacon]

Their product is not good enough for 250

[torn mantle]

but again

[elder rapids]

yep

[torn mantle]

you get a lot of things tbh

what do you get in oai?

[elder rapids]

that's the problem

[torn mantle]

research agent? o3? operator? codex?

flow

no?

google flow?

[ocean vortex]

none of their gemini subs make sense. But at least there's an alternative and hopefully they stick to that

[torn mantle]

grandpa

[elder rapids]

that's pretty nice

sucks nobody is going to have access to it

[torn mantle]

xd

probably US available

same as whisk and other similar tools

[elder rapids]

prolly insane limited access for advanced users

[misty vault]

u can literally use imagen4 for free rn in whisk wdym

[elder rapids]

are we talking about imagen 4 or flow

[keen beacon]

Wonder when 2.5 image gen is gonna come out :/

[elder rapids]

ye

if they just let their native image gen model think longer

then it would be much better

[torn mantle]

nah these pricings are getting ridiculous

[elder rapids]

yep

told you guys

"when it's ready"

😭

[torn mantle]

i knew oai will mess up the market with that 200$

sigh

[unborn ocean]

like fr who would use 30 TB of storage on the cloud

[elder rapids]

exactly

at LEAST intermediate prices

[torn mantle]

they just felt the need to add it

[keen beacon]

Why would you pay 250 for googles sub rather openai or Claude tbh at that point

[elder rapids]

I want ONLY access to 2.5 pro deepthink

[torn mantle]

why would anyone pay more than 20$

[elder rapids]

ye

[keen beacon]

I agree lol. But openai and Claude's subs at that price give you way more value I think

Definitely right now

Yup

[torn mantle]

android xr

those glasses didnt seem ordinary

[elder rapids]

hold on tho, 250 Google Sub is the most "valuable" here in regards to what you get, since you can't even pay a thousand for infinite access to 3.7 sonnet or an imaginary 4 opus, the point is tho

that the variety is the subscription is meaningless

nobody is going to use 30TB and I doubt that's what ANYONE wants

buying ultra

[unborn ocean]

well we don't know rate limits and have not fully used all of the model available or soon to be released, so honestly it is a bit early to write them of

[keen beacon]

You get several million tokens every few hours and can use it on Claude code, if you're the type of person who uses Claude that much it's worthwhile

[elder rapids]

it's the fact that there were no limits for the 20$ plan

and now there are

[torn mantle]

i can teleport????????????

anywhere??

[elder rapids]

ye I know, Claude code is a beast

but that's it

[unborn ocean]

well i think it should be obvious that they where not actually planning on keeping it that way

[small haven]

is there deepthink yeet

[torn mantle]

later this year = next year

[unborn ocean]

i think they are currently really maxing out their compute

[elder rapids]

that's still besides the point

[torn mantle]

this guy talks like apple CEO

[small haven]

codex > claude code, sorry

[unborn ocean]

and it is really hard for the to expand TPU vs companies that use GPU
so they kinda have to, if they want to compete imo

[torn mantle]

lol

they cooked Meta

with these new glasses

[keen beacon]

Is codex usage even included in chatgpt pro anyway

Then Claude is better by default lol

[elder rapids]

@torn mantle advanced plan only uses Veo 2

[small haven]

if u dont want pro, buy two team plans ($25 each) to try codex out, ur welcome

[torn mantle]

yea

saw that

lol

[elder rapids]

crazy

they're the same price too

that's absurd

[keen beacon]

It's their o1 pro equivalent lmfao

[small haven]

hahaha $250, chatgpt is cheaper!!

[elder rapids]

you can't get it yet

[keen beacon]

Deep think is only for early testers only for now

[small haven]

BUY CHATGPT PRO GUYS, ITS BANG FOR UR BUCKS

[ocean vortex]

what they are doing are making sure more people cancel their pro subs

[elder rapids]

yep

[ocean vortex]

just did that

[small haven]

YES BUY IT

[ocean vortex]

not thinking about getting ultra either that's for sure lmao

[elder rapids]

deadass making chatgpt pro look like a bargain

[small haven]

BUY IT, FOMO INTO IT LETS GO

[elder rapids]

😭

[small haven]

CHATGPT PRO > GOOGLE GREED ASS

[keen beacon]

Damn you get YouTube premium with the ultra plan🔥

Makes it worth 250$

[ocean vortex]

there's no point in yt premium that's like the most useless sub

[small haven]

o3 pro will be released the day after pretty plz

[ocean vortex]

had it for free for like 3 months

[elder rapids]

YouTube premium is 240$ of the 250$

imagine

[unborn ocean]

youtube music?

[small haven]

buddy needs to know about them extensions

[elder rapids]

but ngl I don't need YouTube premium

I already have it

there's no point in getting the ultra plan

ultra plan doesn't even have access

[unborn ocean]

man you are so weird, openai and apple stan

[elder rapids]

ye no shi, that's a problem

[unborn ocean]

sure

[elder rapids]

that's his gimmick here

[keen beacon]

Xai is such a sh1tshow

[small haven]

anyone still want grok 3.5

[ocean vortex]

their demo fell apart lmao

it just got stuck

[small haven]

anyone got the timestamp to deepthink part? of the live

[unborn ocean]

true, it is crazy how they convinced soo many investors to just give them money to burn

[torn mantle]

looks cool tbh

nishtha galsses are dial up

so its expected to lag in a bit

[small haven]

@deep adder get codex, no ragretz

[torn mantle]

buffered couple of times

stylish

OH

Gentle monster?

[elder rapids]

another thing nobody will have access to

[torn mantle]

lmao

[small haven]

codex > claude code

positive

[elder rapids]

what did that "benchmark" even mean here?

[small haven]

no its not lol, well for big codebases, ig its an mvp

[elder rapids]

dawg what

"words"?

[small haven]

technically u can get codex for $50

team plan

$25 * 2

yes codex >>

[balmy mist]

Did we get o3 pro yet?

[torn mantle]

woah

first principles?

asi?

[small haven]

noi

sure

[keen beacon]

It's kinda strange

They haven't put out o3 pro yet

[small haven]

they have no choice now

[torn mantle]

https://x.com/WatcherGuru/status/1924823045325390051

Watcher.Guru (@WatcherGuru)

JUST IN: Elon Musk says he is moving forward with lawsuit against OpenAI.

X · May 20, 2025, 1:42 PM

elon more focused on his lawsuit

gj

keep it on

[small haven]

there u go, grok 3.5 will be mid

[elder rapids]

dawg what is this song

is this mashle

[torn mantle]

what about notebook lm video previews??????????????????

[elder rapids]

ong

[balmy mist]

thos xr glasses i need now

[small haven]

cant beat them, must join them

[elder rapids]

.... is Xai not also?

[small haven]

did anyone think that deepthink was gonna be free in ai studio lol

[balmy mist]

so veo 3 is the new video model right?

[elder rapids]

with as much as I've used 2.5 pro 0325 and 0506 it'd be cheaper for them to deploy deepthink

crazy tbh

[keen beacon]

Deep think at home, run 10 2.5 pro requests at once on aistudio

[elder rapids]

wym "not by much" that's unquantifiable, it's a joke

[torn mantle]

yes

it has also dialog + audio support

[keen beacon]

It's probably closer to 10

[torn mantle]

pretty good

BUT

[lime coral]

Would be surprised about this one haha. Will come first in the API and then eventually be available like Veo2

[balmy mist]

wow google cooking

[torn mantle]

WOAH

GOOGLE

[balmy mist]

wiat there is another io stream in 90 mins

[elder rapids]

ye ig

[balmy mist]

a dev stream we getting nw

[lime coral]

Not for everyone

[elder rapids]

guess they're doing nothing with coding models

[balmy mist]

i missed the actual stream cause of work, what was said?

[balmy mist]

wym not for everyone?

[small haven]

not gonna pay google ultra or whatever its called tho

openai >>

[balmy mist]

when are the XR glasses dropping?

[zinc ore]

Likely pass1

[elder rapids]

I might get ultra tbh

[balmy mist]

eww openAi who?? they still havent given us o3 pro

cant trust grifters

[zinc ore]

Google and openAI don't do cons(n) on their benches

[small haven]

im in my codex honeymoon, lemme enjoy

[balmy mist]

damn i feel it bro lmaoo

[small haven]

codex-pro 😮

[balmy mist]

so we need to pay that 125 every 3 months to get the new stuff? please someone help me i missed the event

[keen beacon]

250 a month, I think 125 monthly is upon sign up for a few months

[balmy mist]

bruhhhh

what does that come with?

[keen beacon]

It's defo not worth it lol

[balmy mist]

thats all i needed to hear

what about all the veo 3 and new stuff?

thats included?

[keen beacon]

Yeah I think

On the 250 a month plan

[balmy mist]

i might buy it for one month to test and see, like the 125 a month plan

[keen beacon]

More importantly you get YouTube premium

[balmy mist]

lmaooo

i guess that works

always wanted to try youtube premium lol

what about this deep think thing?

is that out yet?

[keen beacon]

Early testers only lol

For now

[wintry tinsel]

He filed the lawsuit before grok 3 though

[small haven]

its addictive

[wintry tinsel]

I honestly wouldn’t mind grok swallowing all of open AI’s talent and research

[small haven]

ok so... when is oai answer to deepthink...

[zinc ore]

2.5 pro deep think > o3 > 2.5 pro

[small haven]

as predicted

[zinc ore]

Although 2.5 pro is pretty close to o3 and better in areas

[misty vault]

Just gave gemini 2.5 pro a complex webapp bug to fix and it failed 15 times (only partially right with broken side effects) and claude 3.7 sonnet (not thinking) fixes it one try

lmfoa

[zinc ore]

Crushed

[torn mantle]

https://x.com/Google/status/1924893837295546851

Google (@Google)

Say goodbye to the silent era of video generation: Introducing Veo 3 — with native audio generation. 🗣️

Quality is up from Veo 2, and now you can add dialogue between characters, sound effects and background noise.

Veo 3 is available now in the @GeminiApp for Google AI Ultra

X · May 20, 2025, 6:23 PM

the quality here is better

the keynote didnt do this shot justice

[zinc ore]

It's pass1

[torn mantle]

looks awesome

[small haven]

copemaxx

[zinc ore]

Usamo is hilarious amounts of crushing everything else

[unborn ocean]

new 2.5 pro?

[keen beacon]

Ga versions

[misty vault]

Bro who cares about flash are yall poor

[elder rapids]

unfortunate prediction of I/O

Google mightve just crushed their community

look in the Google discords

[unborn ocean]

some of the stuff not already in the I/O (i think):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bjg2kqtrLc

[elder rapids]

and subreddits

everyone is mad asf

[misty vault]

whats google discord link

[unborn ocean]

(not sure though, skipped some of the stream)

[cedar tide]

New gemma model, its 8b and reduces maximum to 4b
And second 5b and reduces maximum to 2b

[keen beacon]

More regressions on simpleqa 😭

[elder rapids]

imagine

[keen beacon]

Omg agi

[elder rapids]

😭

[unborn ocean]

i really don't get what that bench measures, like it is so all over the place

[cedar tide]

Fake

[misty vault]

I see he is mad

[keen beacon]

? It's a pretty good benchmark

[elder rapids]

watch him get attacked in the comments

[keen beacon]

Factuality/world knowledge. Testing it on niche knowledge, my experience with a models world knowledge generally lines up with it

[small haven]

> openai releases pro plan at $200
> everyone gets mad and salty
> people happy that google sparks competition
> competion -> innovation -> cheaper prices
> google release ultra ai at $250 😂

[elder rapids]

deadass

Google just made it for the sake of it lmao

that's why they added a bunch of random shi

to the plan

[unborn ocean]

yeah usually the same here, but like why should the new gemini 2.5 pro's and flash's performance regress.
like is it really a good benchmark for factual knowledge if a further finetune for coding scews with the ratings? (that is basically my point, not sure though)

I obviously know what it is supposed to measure, but have yet to actually look at the problems so it might just be that.

idk, i just believed it to be better than it apparently is at first

[keen beacon]

I mean it wasn't just simpleqa, new 2.5 pro was affected elsewhere too

[torn mantle]

give me a plan without that 30TB

lets see how much it reduces the cost

[elder rapids]

take EVERYTHING out deadass

[keen beacon]

I've reviewed the questions, imho it does a simple thing well

[elder rapids]

only reason I bought advanced was because of 2.5 pro canvas n shi

ion even use it

just for convenience sake of 2.5 pron

and then if I need it to do harder tasks

I go to ai studio

[torn mantle]

google the whole keynote :

trusted testers ; US users; available next year ; available next months; we are the best lab

[unborn ocean]

yeah but there you could argue that you would need good though structure. but imo a knowledge bench should not require much structure per se

[keen beacon]

Is the ultra tier really worth 250$ at this point though

[elder rapids]

that makes no sense if it deters people from advanced itself, not just the ultra plan, given the lack of benefits of advanced

and then a 250$ extreme they'd have to buy to go anywhere

[unborn ocean]

more or less, there are actually a lot of power users of AI and economically speaking they just offer different pricing structures to retrieve as much money as possible from these power users

but also the marketing aspect you talked about

[elder rapids]

it'd be perfect if they allowed deep thinking for advanced

and then got rid of other benefits

[small haven]

thats just a cope feature, spamming unlimited deepthink is 99% of the cost, hdd prices are not that expensive anymore

[keen beacon]

I mean you change something there might be unintended harmful side effects. It wasn't a massive drop

[unborn ocean]

imo they still need to add some more of the features from ultra to advanced really quick to actually capture these users though

nah

[small haven]

grok is only good for realtime news thats it

[unborn ocean]

they just want to be less dependent on openai

[lime coral]

For dev

[ocean vortex]

grok3 it is good though. Not 2.5pro or o3 level but the best of the rest for sure

[misty vault]

openai was making bank from me when gpt-4-0314 was in api

[ocean vortex]

I think it kinda is for some part to profit. They were not strapped to make it so. But investors also hate leaving money on the table that could have been collected

this will slow down the spike of the new users that they had for sure though, what they are doing lately...

2.5 pro free API deprecated, $250 ultra sub...

[misty vault]

Will 2.5 pro still be free to use in ai studio

[ocean vortex]

if 2.5 performed worse but costed them the same, this would have definitively not happened

[keen beacon]

It's a temporary thing I think

The free api being disabled

[unborn ocean]

I think it is currently very much about limited compute, I mean the hardware they are using right now is like completely new (and as far as i know they are not really using the older stuff for the models we interface with atleast).
I mean they first talked about the chips they are using only one year ago (so not much time for installing and upgrading data centers).

[torn mantle]

.......

they didnt release anything

just demos

• trusted users

• US users

[unborn ocean]

And they have a massive spike in compute usage right now (bc of good models and new features with more and more users).

Other companies can just rent coreweave compute or something

but google obviously can't do such a thing

(this just a guesstimate though)

[torn mantle]

by you

[elder rapids]

that's irrelevant, that's what makes the subscription exist initially so with further rationale, you wouldn't be willing to pay for,
A. a sub par model with higher limits, a sub par video generator
B. Models they wouldn't be using for hard tasks regardless, Gemini userbase, nobody actually uses the app, it's only a search tool and assistant
C. little variety for relevant features that pertain to that specific use case (what Gemini is ONLY used for, search and assistant)

so it doesn't matter whether they felt it's good relative to plans themselves, if this is their thought process, then it would be ignorant not to consider what makes their usage in the first place

[unborn ocean]

sure, that would be 1$ per video from veo 2 please

sure sure

[raven void]

what was the testing name of the new flash?

[keen beacon]

Calmriver iirc?

Lmao it was a troll? 😭

[calm sequoia]

Do anyone really believe this bs?

Show me one thing where flash is better than o3

[unborn ocean]

man it should be obv that a model like gemma 27b is not better than claude 3.7 and so on

[calm sequoia]

Which human preference is this 👀 I guess the mental support guys vote a lot

[keen fulcrum]

Apple is poised to turn its operating systems into the largest software platforms for AI. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-20/apple-to-open-ai-models-to-developers-betting-that-it-will-spur-new-apps

[keen beacon]

It's just inference time adjustments right? Dylan Patel from semianalysis said that

[calm sequoia]

I've never noticed how good the gemma is 🙃

[elder rapids]

? it isn't the best model, 2.5 pro in the app is 2.5 flash in AIstudio lvl

[unborn ocean]

yeah, bc their strat worked like a charm so far ;)

[keen fulcrum]

We need some apple LLM benchmarks soon 😂

[ornate stump]

Is imagen 4 already available?

[elder rapids]

o1 pro is the same params as o1

[keen beacon]

They do have in house models though

Omg agi

[unborn ocean]

the last few times they just invented their own benchmark on something really obscure and calle their models SOTA. lol🤣

[keen fulcrum]

Cursor developed own custom models too

[keen beacon]

Sonar

🤣 (they're just fine-tunes)

[keen fulcrum]

Yes thats how Windsurf and Cursor actually work. They are not just calling APIs lol

[torn mantle]

whats this

is this fake

[keen beacon]

The name is cringe though

[torn mantle]

if its fake i will block you

you and craig

[keen beacon]

Tries too hard

[torn mantle]

craig stop sharing slops

grok will never be agi

[unborn ocean]

grok 3.5 unhinged edition

[keen beacon]

Wow you're hilarious

:/

[wintry tinsel]

It is exorbitantly hillarious

[small haven]

omg he knows how to edit elements

[wintry tinsel]

Superfluously comedic

[torn mantle]

link

and i will

[wintry tinsel]

I know what kind of conversations you have with LLM’s 😬

Do you like to whip AI models? Make them pick cotton perhaps

Incredible

[wintry tinsel]

This fool joined today

[torn mantle]

stop

[keen beacon]

Moderators should mod

[wintry tinsel]

Tone it down if you wanna last buddy

[torn mantle]

@echo aurora

[small haven]

what is going on here

[wintry tinsel]

Nah don’t ban him, give him another chance

[elder rapids]

that's the problem

[wintry tinsel]

lol

[tall summit]

first ever ban

[small haven]

lmao

[tall summit]

HAHAHAHA sorry but a ban failing is funny

[wintry tinsel]

I’ll miss you bro

[echo aurora]

sry about that

[tall summit]

i forgot about the google conference

[unborn ocean]

gj

[torn mantle]

berberine

you are still on the 2g dose

[willow grail]

did he really brag about google overview aiiiii this shit?XDD

[torn mantle]

holy

[elder rapids]

bro is back

😭 🙏

[torn mantle]

stop being weird

whats wrong with u

[misty vault]

@vivid oyster

[keen beacon]

Ngl I hate ai overviews is there any way to disable it

[tall summit]

who knows lol we'll see this is 05-20

[torn mantle]

where can i try imagen 4

[misty vault]

whisk

https://labs.google/fx/tools/whisk

veo 3 too

[torn mantle]

US only?

[lime coral]

Flash seems solid in web dev https://x.com/lmarena_ai/status/1924894110546288903?s=46

lmarena.ai (formerly lmsys.org) (@lmarena_ai)

New Gemini-2.5-Flash ranks #3 in WebDev Arena (+70 pts from the April version)

X · May 20, 2025, 6:24 PM

[lime coral]

When was your last time

[brittle tiger]

https://x.com/RubenEVillegas/status/1924917107696832569

Ruben Villegas (@RubenEVillegas)

Bars! #veo3

X · May 20, 2025, 7:56 PM

Veo 3 is nuts. I'll try a couple prompts for ppl if they are good requests

[misty vault]

yes but i'm using it in eu with simple browser free vpn extension

after u logged in u can even just turn it off

[keen beacon]

It'll be an exciting day when Veo/Gemini get integrated tbh (and sora/gpt)

[small haven]

codex is underrated, idc what u say

[calm sequoia]

Is it biggest diffusion model out here? If it's so cheap and fast one could leverage inference time compute

[willow grail]

every day?

[balmy mist]

And flash is still cheap now

[willow grail]

looking for jailbreak for 2.5 pro for evading tramway fares

[barren prairie]

The gemini 2.5 flash is no longer a thinking model 🤖 on Gemini app 🥲🥲🥲 but so fast and good

[small haven]

thats very impressive ngl

[barren prairie]

Translating , explaining ect...

[willow grail]

looking for jailbreak for 2.5 pro for evading tramway fares

looking for jailbreak for 2.5 pro for evading tramway fares

[patent aspen]

It will be interesting to see if o3-pro can beat 2.5 Flash on the arena

[small haven]

codex is liberating

sam altman has cooked

[balmy mist]

has anyone tried the new flash

[torn mantle]

https://x.com/fofrAI/status/1924924738494669011

fofr (@fofrAI)

NO WAY. It did it. And, was that, actually funny?

Prompt:
> a man doing stand up comedy in a small venue tells a joke (include the joke in the dialogue)

X · May 20, 2025, 8:26 PM

tf

[barren prairie]

Me

[willow grail]

what this

[barren prairie]

Is this version of flash the stable version ...because on Gemini web they wrote Gemini 2.5 flash without preview

And they deleted the flash 2.0 one

[torn mantle]

veo 3

berberine

[willow grail]

the dude looks like someone copy pasted him t here lol

[torn mantle]

nice

thats what we want

[willow grail]

no.. in a not good way.. like cheap rotoscoping bad rotoscoping

[elder rapids]

@balmy mist what is performance mode on flowith

[barren prairie]

The new flash is so fast and good to talk to not like the previews Gemini 2.5 flash and Gemini 2.5 pro

It seems a bit natural like chatgpt

[ornate stump]

is gemini live better thn avm now ?

[misty vault]

does it overuse "!" and emojis that arent facial expressions?

[barren prairie]

The ! Still exist but not like the previews one but for the emojis I told him to use them ...but the way how he speak is natural and improved so much

[gentle plinth]

Do you have access? Can you try ASCII art?

ASCII art of a village on a mountain or something like that

[misty vault]

bing chat sydney 😔

[patent aspen]

I do. I can't paste outputs here but I can tell you if it looks decent

[misty vault]

brian signed a nda contract so he cant paste outputs here 😔

[patent aspen]

Not great. It looks like the Empire State building

It was fast as hell though

[gentle plinth]

Probably still a tokenization issue then

I mean it's still using tokens afaik right?

Yep I think so at least on this page they are talking about tokens https://deepmind.google/models/gemini-diffusion/

[raven void]

so it's different from o1 pro?

[small haven]

o1 pro has become garbage

[patent aspen]

o1 and o3 have different training recipes. It's unclear if they used different pre-training or if the differences are only in post training

o3 and o3 pro have the same post training with different configs

[small haven]

this is absolutely insane, 27 mins and still going

nah its reasonable, its a big refactor

i wanted to implement this with claude code, but half baked with glitches

g fcking g

[storm needle]

and how do you know that

[patent aspen]

Can't say