#Monolith Atom-Lore Proposal

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polar thorn
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my idea was on Universal Esperanto for a while

viral wedge
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Spenglish

digital plover
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spaceglish

viral wedge
digital plover
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spanglish real?

polar thorn
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Spanglish

digital plover
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something along those lines

polar thorn
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Spanlish

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Spalish

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something that doesnt sound too silly

digital plover
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spanglish sounds silly enough to be real

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span, spanish, english, glish...

polar thorn
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what if i renamed Sol Common (TSF language) to "Universal Esperanto" but still kept the chinese text when you dont understand it

digital plover
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people don't know about spain in game so it seems fine

topaz mirage
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The real lore question about Languages
Who speaks Gary?

viral wedge
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Spanglish is what here in Canada we call Spanish-English speakers

digital plover
polar thorn
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the thing is that esperanto was meant to be an universal language to unite humanity

digital plover
viral wedge
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The TSF have more of a Chinese/Japanese language vibe

polar thorn
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easy to learn and etched in stone grammar rules

viral wedge
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I feel

digital plover
polar thorn
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so andromeda standard is getting renamed to universal esperanto?

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i dont quite get what youre saying

digital plover
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we have

  • andromeda standard
  • tsf language
    in the conversation right now
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spanglish was brought up as a funny name

topaz mirage
digital plover
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I think andromeda standard works fine + is comprehensive

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no clue about tsf language

polar thorn
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but we are not in andromeda, are we?

viral wedge
digital plover
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true

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after looking up what esperanto means it seems good actually

polar thorn
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alright

topaz mirage
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I think languages are relatively well explained already, since it's existing lore
Except Gary
But Gary doesn't need explainingclueless

polar thorn
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Gary.

digital plover
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Gary was a shitpost honestly

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but its funny enough to keep it

polar thorn
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@digital plover
Okay, so Standard was renamed to "Universal Esperanto", what about Sol Common then? The TSF language?

digital plover
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whatever is loreful

polar thorn
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damn ok

polar thorn
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reworked TSF and USSP lore entry

analog pollen
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to sum it up the Phaethon Dynasty is basically people that said "errr society is fucked.. im moving out into the space outback where's there's nobody here" heaps of people do that eventually and little societies pop up with their little conflicts and small interplanetary conflicts - All cut off from the rest of the galaxy so their technological capabilities devolve over time. Eventually the Sultanate rises up and basically becomes the biggest faction - years of technological stagnation and slow expansion due to agricultural issues, and other issues like that (Outer rim doesnt exactly have the most hospitable planets from my knowledge) until eventually they find hidden ruins of untouched syndicate technology and scavenge the shit out of it. So once that all happens? They expand and expand until they discover the Monolith and explore it's secrets.

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Main inspiration for it i guess? Imperialist Russia

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Anyways

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@polar thorn

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That's basically the premise of the Phaethon Dynasty

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they scavenge, they reverse engineer and steal what's not their own because they don't have much going on for them.

digital plover
analog pollen
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Like Europa is a syndicate design in its full sense.

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Uhhh

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They also have industrial capability to produce a lot syndicate technology which I don’t think it explains it from the battlefleet perspective

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Unless they had mobile shipyards and factory ships with that battle group

humble turtle
analog pollen
versed flame
# polar thorn

@hard mesa looking pretty decent so far, definitely a back history of TSF formation anyway

polar thorn
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we got Modern-day Russia, Imperialist Russia, and Soviet Russia

analog pollen
polar thorn
analog pollen
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I’m here to make gameplay better

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Not the lore

olive wing
viral wedge
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If only staff could agree what the fuck is canon and what isn’t

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There wouldn’t be need for endless revising if y’all could agree on a timeline or even set lore. Mfers can’t even agree what galaxy we’re in.. At this rate it’s just new people seeing the extraordinary lack of concrete lore, and then them trying to fill the void, falling into the same repetitious cycle as the older players.

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And none of it is canon

olive wing
viral wedge
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Has happened

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Has not been taken seriously

olive wing
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😔

viral wedge
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Don’t even know where that would be in the suggestions anymore

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To be fair I think it was made using GPT but at least it was something, even if it - probably didn’t follow any of the actual lore and was just an AI’s interpretation of probably 3 lines of explanation for the whole prompt.

olive wing
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One of hullrot's Awesome People made this which almost perfectly condensed what you'd need to know about imperial history into a single image

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Also I'm not sure if you can read the smaller text but I can't cause it got pixelated

analog pollen
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Idk i made the phaeton dynasty with no AI and no writing experience

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I just kinda used my own delusions for it

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And the fact I wanted to improve faction gameplay loop

viral wedge
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You wrote the Muslim Brotherhood very well

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Why the Syndicate became the embodiment of everything they hated during the corporate war is peak irony

sleek geyser
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weeeell. depends on the syndicate member.

for the more corporate syndicate members they just wanted to take NT's place.

viral wedge
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The Syndicate was somewhat its own beast, while it did have corporate sponsors and while it was made using 2 corporate entities (Cybersun and Donk Pockets or Waffle Co depending on where you get your SS13 lore.) and 1 mercenary group (Inner Circle), they all kinda were eaten by The Syndicate before the end of this hundred year war. Even the Syndicate wasn’t as unified as it’s made to be believed. Many were originally Pirates that got brought into it under the promise of free loot and lots of plundering, would be the best way to get second hand space ships into your ranks without outright buying them. Tiger Cooperative was primarily based around Changelings and their needs, which wasn’t quite on the agenda of The Syndicate with destroying Nanotrasen, but their resources were used regardless. By the end, it was just The Syndicate, several sector spanning terrorist organization consisting of potentially hundreds, hell maybe thousands of loosely strung together groups that rarely interacted with each other unless they were coordinating, merging or clashing. A lot of its recruits were disgruntled NT Employees, Mercenaries, Criminals and the occasional Corporate Backer that would give supplies for X Y and Z. It was much akin to any Earthly terrorist organization that receives its supplies from those that wish to see their competitors deposed. But on a more grand scale, as this is a war that swept up just about everything in the galaxy. Massive power vacuums were created by it taking possibly centuries to truly fill. Every individual was their own, mostly trauma bonded by their combined hate for NT/Megacorporations in general.

With that said, I’m not out here saying reee PDV Muslim bad it’s more just that it would have taken several generations for them to fall into this situation of conforming to a Sultan. Which historically, have done some pretty tyrannical things. Just funny reading the anti-authoritarian group becoming an authoritarian group.

polar thorn
sleek geyser
polar thorn
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Monolith Atom-Lore Proposal

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phaethon dynasty thijngs

image.png image.png made-some-scifi-flags-for-some-space-worldbuilding-v0-hycq7vvg7yua1.png
olive wing
viral wedge
polar thorn
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still makes me wonder what made the syndicate remnants resort to a feudal system

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feudal systems in scifi especially among humans have been a strange case for me

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like what caused that

viral wedge
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Well that’s what I always questioned about the PDV. Them becoming effectively the same thing they fought to destroy, and becoming it in less than a decade is kind of a weird spin.

polar thorn
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what if

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the phaethon dynasty

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was originally made by aliens

viral wedge
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Abductor Lore Drop?

polar thorn
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and the syndi remnants gave them technology and they assumed rule over them

viral wedge
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Meh

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If spun in a cool way maybe

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But I think just, tidying up the loose ends and maybe spreading the lore out a bit would be best

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Always found it weird that it’s like

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*The Corporate War Ends…

HELL YEAH WE’RE MUSLIM SPACE TERROR GROUP WITH A FEUDAL SYSTEM BASED AROUND THE SULTANS OF OLD*

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And then 100+ years of just

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That

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That’s all it is

polar thorn
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i keep forgetting that it was like a 100 years of time passing

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god making timelines is hard

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but ill manage

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monolith needs a hero

viral wedge
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Would have been more interesting if like, The Phaethon Fleet was crippled to like 3 or 4 ships and they had to jump to the closest world, a desert shithole with nothing on it and little room for vegetation. The remnants of their fleet were scrapped to make housing and try to establish something. The Feudal/Caste type system was made to consolidate power amongst the elite/officers of the Syndicate. And then it was twisted over a decade or two as they grew, resulting in the officer caste assassinating those who opposed them and claimed their sovereignty, raising their first Sultan.

polar thorn
viral wedge
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Literally yeah

polar thorn
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also to avoid the population concern and shit there could be like

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a decivilized population

viral wedge
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Or a highly religiously motivated population.

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Which grew into the monster it now is

polar thorn
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space muslims

viral wedge
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Would help explain that bit better at least

polar thorn
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yup

viral wedge
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It also would make sense tbh. Humans have a funny tendency to move towards religion after such events like the corporate war. Most of their fleet was destroyed or left crippled. Many would have lost friends or even family. Most would be looking for something to fill the void. And when you’re put under the added stress of having to effectively rebuild from the ground up/the struggles that would come with landing on an alien planet that offers little in the way of comfort. People can find solace in the religious sermons offered by the pious.

polar thorn
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does the dynasty have a canon-like religion in the guidebook or somewhere

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or can i go hamwild

viral wedge
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I don’t think it’s actually stated anywhere in the PDV lore bits. But it’s lowkey implied through their Muslim/Arabic/Ottoman Empire themes.

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Lotta people that have talked about it make it seem like it’s implied

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Most PDV (from what I’ve seen at least) tend to have somewhat Muslim centric naming schemes.

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Their language in game is also a branch of Arabic is it not?

polar thorn
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if i write this badly im gonna get called racist

viral wedge
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I too am racist to the Syndicate

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But nah, if anything you’re doing them justice.

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Just don’t jump over the maintainer that wrote the current PDV lore and resources. Could be a fun collaboration project for you two to flesh it out.

polar thorn
sleek geyser
# viral wedge Would have been more interesting if like, The Phaethon Fleet was crippled to lik...

hmmmmm, forced to land you say.

[...] the Emirates has been home to a hereditary caste system established during Reconstruction by the crew of the HCS Eastern Sun, a merchant Gateship that refused to leave Terra Nova and crashed after a mutiny. The descendants of the command staff became the emirs of the East, while other citizens are either solicitors (middle-class) or commoners. The direct descendants of Captain Enri Masao himself became the Patriarchs of the league. This system was originally maintained by a bond of feudal responsibility between lords and lackeys, although it was always prone to certain excesses. The Republican invasion of the ESE made matters much worse. [...]

from: https://heavygear.wiki.gg/wiki/Eastern_Suns_Emirates

Heavy Gear Wiki
Eastern Suns Emirates

The Eastern Sun Emirates (ESE) is the current “hot spot” of the southern hemisphere. Widely recognized as the most backward of the Southern vassal states, the Emirates has been home to a hereditary caste system established during Reconstruction by the crew of the HCS Eastern Sun, a merchant Gateship...

polar thorn
sleek geyser
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basically 356 years before the present of the Heavy Gear setting Earth went isolationist and ditched all the colonies to fend for themselves with no gateships for trade(except for Caprice who managed to hold onto a handful of Gateships).

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Earth nuked itself anyways and once the New Earth Commonwealth won WW3 they went "shit we broke earth and sol is out of material, we need to take the colonies back by force before Earth dies for real".

if you look at a map of earth Greenland is Green. That's how fucked they are.

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the HCS Eastern Sun decided to stay at the colony world that is the main POV of the setting instead of going back to Earth and made a caste system with the literal spaceboatload of supplies they had.

viral wedge
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Greenland? Green?
Greenland above water? Guh?? Earth is so over bro.

sleek geyser
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Most of earth is also brown in that point of the HG timeline.

One of the big plot characters named Colonel Arthur grew up in Alaska.

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The NEC government is centered on a modular floating megacity near the mediterranean. Survived the age of isolation but is a ahadow of its former self. But hey it gets to be the capital post-ww3

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Oh and the antarctic is green too

polar thorn
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redspace is in the game

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therefore its canon

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suck it fluffenheimer

digital plover
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show me a pic of it appearing ingame

polar thorn
polar thorn
polar thorn
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PDV lore made

analog pollen
polar thorn
livid knot
polar thorn
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if only i knew to what

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This thread is officially now the second most chatted thread in the forum

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Very cool

livid knot
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One message removed from a suspended account.

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polar thorn
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it looks like a generic scifi faction flag rather than a flag for a country

hard mesa
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agreed

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we dont r/vexillium here

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real medieval flags were near chaotic and drippy as fuck

Armorial-1416-1418-English-Manchester-University-Library-Latin-MS-28-1024x335.png
surreal pagoda
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Update, I have changed my mind as I initially read the year as 2147 and was greatly confused.

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My apologies Monolith Lore Guy

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Only problem I see with the lore (and was going to be the cornerstone of my arguments) is how the various species of the TSF both arose and joined with the TSF, and rather why, though I don't know Paradise lore that well

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This is assuming this is still the basis for the lore, ofc.

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The reason why I point this out is because of Population Demographics and what that may look like merely 400~ in the future considering that we have 8 billion people on Earth right now, and expanding that out to the various OTHER species likely within the Federation, assuming we have a home planet/world of origin for each one of them with the exception of the IPCs and perhaps Dionae, well.

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Probably also Hydrakin too but lore for them is probably still at least mildly dynamic and we don't know their true population numbers since they were uplifited

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TLDR Lore good so far now fit in like 8 other species, first contact, while making sense with the current population demographics (32 billion in TSF and 22 billion in USSP) that most have agreed on so far and how those species have moved around to meet these populations

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Anyways go poke me with a stick if you want me to yap more

polar thorn
surreal pagoda
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guh

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about what though I'm reading some paradise lore rn

polar thorn
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i have mixed feelings about paradise lore

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i like the faction names and the USSP flag but i dont think monolith should just be ss13 paradise but in ss14

surreal pagoda
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yeah, but it's interesting to see the basis for everything considering we're mildly moving away from it

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Regardless you see what I was concerned about and was going to bring up

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like, the Earth diaspora is actually greater than you think because it gives the ability for humans to show up anywhere

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which is completely accurate IC and allows for a lot of flexibility

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but then that raises the question of like, how does the USSP, a series of colonies based presumably away from most civilizations have the population that it does

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I get that you can handwave this with Corporate war nonsense but that is a lot you're fitting into a 90~ish year timespan

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Like either homeworlds existed previously within the USSP (which would greatly affect how it presents itself and how the faction IC needs to be presented) or NT and the Syndicate moved somewhere on the order of like

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8-20 billion people

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with or without their consent, and assuming a good chunk of population growth

polar thorn
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or imperialism

polar thorn
surreal pagoda
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yeahhh

polar thorn
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im not touching that shit with a 12 foot pole people get rabid about that shit

surreal pagoda
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honestly you may want to overtly avoid any of that

polar thorn
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exactly

surreal pagoda
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find a way to say that first contacts happened during the Corporate War (so they're lost) and then mayyybe push forward with the idea that a lot of the current factions are human-biased

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which does fit in line mostly with how people act IC (knowledge of earth history) and what Monolith sector demographics is likely at large

polar thorn
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so you would get things like industrial system zones and civilian zones

polar thorn
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i wonder why i didnt write that in

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halfway redacted

surreal pagoda
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because I'm not gonna lie, a lot of the factions draw HEAVILY on our history with multiple allusions and overt references, which isn't bad and makes RP easier but makes it harder to explain why there's a few spider and probably slime and other colonies that are 100% USSP and likely totally abide by what seem like normal human practices

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over the course of around a 100-200 year timespan

polar thorn
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giant fucking man spiders suddenly becoming communists overnight speaking flawless russian

surreal pagoda
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this is as an example too

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yeah exactly it makes it slightly hard to believe, which isn't a huge problem but illustrates the problem

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anyways I gotta stop yapping and work on IRL stuff poke me later

polar thorn
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👍

digital plover
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i.e guidebook changing PR, which needs multiple approvals for something this big

analog pollen
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Has my approval

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Is what I meant

polar thorn
topaz mirage
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Oh yeah, I was meant to get around to reading this
I'll give my thoughts when I get around to it, mainly around USSP because I was doing some writing for it

polar thorn
topaz mirage
polar thorn
sleek geyser
# surreal pagoda Only problem I see with the lore (and was going to be the cornerstone of my argu...

i know paralore and know the people who are the main writers for a given paralore species...and those who are fallback writers for the species without a main writer.

Paralore TSF species off the top of my head. The ones that are represented by one variation of their flag.

  • Skrell? First contact to the SSC(proto-TSF) and their strongest ally. Became a large demographic through colonies even if no Skrell worlds joined the TSF.
  • Unathi(reptiles)? A preferential citizenship program for their service in the kidan war by holding the flanks while the SSC and Skrell were going for an anti-psychic decapitation strike.
  • Slimepeople? Made a deal with the TSF that they'd help stabilise their homeworld before they joined
  • Kidan. It's been about 300 years since the Kidan war and the USSP split. Integrating the non-psychic leftovers of the Kidan war to the point they're represented on a TSF flag and also letting a buffer state self-govern isn't out of the question.

as stated before atom wants to leave out addressing the other species to someone else. like that hydrakin writer monolith has. go have them lay something out

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the paralore RDU(AKA USSP v3) on the other hand have higher concentrations of:

  • Nian(moths)
  • vulpkanin
  • Tajarans...by proxy
  • IPCs(paralore TSF do not legally recognize IPCs as sophonts so fugitives sometimes end up in the RDU where they have rights in addition to the IPCs the RDU already produces)

in addition to Skrell offshoots via the RDU member state named Qurlan.

empty badge
polar thorn
digital plover
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pretty sure it’s a pun

polar thorn
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i aint adding redspace

viral wedge
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Redspace more like

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Stupid

languid bluff
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Does tsf have anything actually bad about them like is there genuinely no
Actually super evil villain shenanigans because again they're supposed to be two sides of the same coin opposing the sultanate

But right now to me they just look like a generally okay military they don't do anything too morally bad..

coarse oar
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enslaved minorities and corporate corruption over a veil of progression and scientific feats

sleek geyser
# languid bluff Does tsf have anything actually bad about them like is there genuinely no Actua...

the Monolith version is kind of sanded down compared to the Para version which was made as a question of liberty/prosperity. For example:

They have a strong economy, effective social welfare policies, fairly affordable healthcare, and are broadly very stable. On the other hand, you need to do five years of service to have political suffrage, consume a notable amount of propaganda every day, and the Federation's security organs use fleets of webcrawlers to decide whether or not your questionable political takes might get your internet shut off

and of course to make people give a shit about lore: using Project Wingman type shenanigans and megaprojects like TTRPG plot hooks.

polar thorn
livid knot
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sleek geyser
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good little cogs get their pension plans and space camaros

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and this TSF lowkey control freak gigastate is in contrast to the paralore RDU(AKA USSP v3) being a socialist EU alliance of smaller polities.

both the laissez-faire corpos(especially over in the Eridani Republic) and the RDU dislike the TSF's state-directed corporatism.

livid knot
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polar thorn
polar thorn
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criticism allowed at all times in DMs or in this thread btw

hard mesa
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lemme read the TSF part..

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kind of weird to have a "Marine Police" identified as wholly separate, but it feels almost "secret police"-y so not that bad

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wish there was a mention of the actions of the TSFMC rooting out the last of the ASR cells in the Colossus sector before the reveal of the PDV, it'd add some lore from things that did happen in game..

versed flame
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^

hard mesa
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more recently was the struggle within Colossus itself with the PDV gaining initial control over civilian sectors of economy, until a strike fleet and contingent of marines took back the reigns to reestablish TSF control of the civilian commerce of the sector

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that'd give new people who join an idea of the recent struggles within the sector and conextualize civilian, TSF, and PDV play

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because the timeline as it stands is rather zoomed out beyond just colossus, some focus into Colossus might do it some good

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@polar thorn pinging you so you see this

polar thorn
topaz mirage
# polar thorn <@798960046167556097> https://github.com/Monolith-Station/Monolith/pull/3067 ta...

Looks great! I did say I'd get around to reading itgodo
In terms of the USSP, I just had some points I wanted to share my thoughts on:

I think it's worth mentioning the Revolution that sparked the USSP, in my own lore I was writing (and will probably never finish at this rateunamused ), I wrote that about 30 years before it's founding a Nanotrasen Librarian basically got a hold of some contraband books (Think a typical Champagne Socialist's bookshelfclueless ) and read them, condensing his thoughts into a singular book, that became core to the USSP ideology (Think Mao's little red book). This spread in the years prior to the founding of the USSP.

Once Nova Cygni becomes independent, news spreads fast and many stations/colonies (Usually NT affiliated) break out in rebellion, some are aligned to USSP, others just use the opportunity to break away from NT. What follows, is a conquest of systems near to Nova Cygni, by a ragtag USSP fleet, bolstered by a breakaway Syndie fleet that goes on to become Viper Group. The fleet, basically uses Gunboat Diplomacy to coerce planets into joining the Union. Many planets are glassed. The Revolution causes the death of millions during the violence.

TLDR: Mention the USSP began with and instigated one of the most violent revolutions the Galaxy has ever seen. Mention the spread of the USSP Book (needs a title) in the years prior to the revolution contributed to its success.

topaz mirage
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Uh, I'm sure I'll think of other stuff later
Basically, it's sort of a requirement under Marxist/Leninist ideals to have a violent revolution, the Corporate War makes a good backdrop for that, so it's at least worth mentioning imo

livid knot
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sleek geyser
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glassed with what? mining lasers?

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if you wanna keep a place, bombing from orbit and doing nothing else is out of the question.

you need boots on the ground and boots on the ground isn't exactly "glass 100% of a planet" material. Since going for a bombing-heavy campaign makes what you are trying to get worthless but no matter the degree of bombardment a whole self-sustaining planet can be sieged indefinitely without running out of food so you gotta get in there or devote a lot of resources into carrying out an elaborate plan.

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and with a sufficiently developed planet you'll have conditions that turns a "tough campaign of conquest" into "impractical prestige project"

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collateral damage and the fear of collateral damage scrambling interstellar supply lines is a simpler less edgy explanation to get the same numbers.

livid knot
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sleek geyser
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political reasons can also negatively affect supply lines. What's your goal here?

depending on the proliferation of spacecraft you can add casualties from mass refugee waves too which is also less "edgy lore" compared to performing an "orbital exterminatus" relatively speaking.

polar thorn
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glassing a planet means that you bomb shit so badly with so much bombs it turns the rocks into literal glass

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of course it could just be used as slang for bombardment

sleek geyser
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Yeah the usage of "glassing" gave me that impression but for badly destroying whole planet with really heat-heavy munitions. Which is quite time consuming.

sudden wind
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You could just throw a big rock to a planet

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Like the dinosaurs

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No need for nukes or ammo to be wasted

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Just get a asteroid and slap some thrusters in it

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@polar thorn just gave you ideas for a super weapon btw

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Also do your lore touch vox?

polar thorn
sleek geyser
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Yeah better to coordinate with other people willing to specialize in that.

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Tangentially related:

1f6b05b3-55eb-4706-a8c6-7560f7dea3f3.jpg
sleek geyser
# sudden wind You could just throw a big rock to a planet

That might be cost-effective if:

  • you could actually aim a 12km wide rock
  • didn't need to deal with defence networks

Asteroids aren't exactly fond of staying intact. They're the opposite of dense due to the lack of gravity so they might break apart if you move one too hard. Obviously you can reinforce one before you send it down.

Nuke accessibility is no big deal as ship-to-ship weapons though since space is a vacuum. But you still don't want to waste them on an atmosphere where the fallout can linger and fuck up what you wanted to claim.

Same "fucks up what you want to conquer" issue with the asteroid attacks.

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Now if you want a real doomsday super weapon:

Gravity generator pointed at asteroid belt(only works if there is an asteroid belt)

coarse oar
surreal pagoda
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This is NT based weaponry and systems we're taking about. A single guy with a Tesla Generator could probably glass the surface of a planet himself, no other machines required besides a PA and an emag

coarse oar
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PA and a singulo gen

sleek geyser
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There are tesla/singularity busting delivery systems.

But those aren't the most common and these kinds of power systems are likely highly illegal for use in populated areas(but not on stations with lax safety)

polar thorn
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the ability to just MAKE a fucking black hole?

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that shit better be completely unstable or easily counterable

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isnt there a gun in some ss13 offshoots with 1 shot that can just destroy a singulo?

coarse oar
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in goob, the CE has a singulo buster rocket launcher that can kill looses in one rocket

polar thorn
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real

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cool but also goob

coarse oar
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kills t3 singulos and late stage overcharged teslas instantly, but has only THREE spare rockets

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so it better be used carefully

sleek geyser
polar thorn
sleek geyser
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They also let the other rocket launchers load singularity buster ammo and vice versa.

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So the CE could use RPG warheads if any are found

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Cargo can order anti-loose packs too with a launcher and 5 extra buster shots

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Using a regular bomb also works as long as it explodes before being absorbed

polar thorn
coarse oar
polar thorn
coarse oar
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public safety doesnt fit right shortened

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communications security

polar thorn
#

what does even COMSEC mean unshortened

#

PUBSAF still sounds cool

coarse oar
#

answered it before you asked

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maybe

main cloak
#

Comsec is communications security yes

livid knot
polar thorn
#

yes they would

candid cape
#

@polar thorn need any help with the document? As in any particular part needing attention

#

cause i could tackle it since tomorrow piece by piece

polar thorn
#

Probably faction lore the most.

polar thorn
#

freed from desire

#

mind and senses purified

polar thorn
#

lore

viral wedge
#

lore

topaz mirage
#

The proposed lore team should do LSD and rewrite the lore
Like Morrowinds lore
Make it interesting by having it be batshit insane

viral wedge
#

Imagine having a lore team

topaz mirage
#

Be the lore team you wanna be or something idk
I'll just say every take is cannon now

sudden wind
restive shadow
viral wedge
#

There it is

#

Enjoy your dry, flavourless chicken dinner, you savages.

polar thorn
#

people are willing to listen to a group of people or something

restive shadow
digital plover
#

Make up your own lore go crazy

polar thorn
#

anyway

#

lore team

digital plover
#

yeah it’s a joke

#

I still think freedom of thought in most regards is important though

polar thorn
#

in games like dungeons and dragons theres a reason a dungeon master exists

#

to make the lore for the players

#

if the players had control over the setting it wouldnt be as fun

#

youre obviously free to make backstories for your characters

#

but the whole world should be under the command of the person who designed it

#

idk

#

i just think a central lore for the factions and the setting should be official and not fractured

digital plover
#

that’s what I was describing

polar thorn
digital plover
sleek geyser
polar thorn
sleek geyser
#

i have seen HRP servers with the policy of "never put player character names in the timeline/history/news, even if what they did got on the news during an event round".

which is quite reasonable, you wouldn't want to incentivise the kind of people that only play for personal prestige in a spacemans game.

drawing a line between historic canon and personal canon is also important since no staff is going to be able to keep track of the history of every single round so those rounds are more "semi-canon" compared to "historic canon"(what staff writes, usually from event rounds) and "personal canon"(what players write)

analog pollen
#

@hidden path you can find the comprehensive discussion in relation to the PR here.

hidden path
#

my apologies

#

I thought it was a request for merge

analog pollen
#

this is a proposal

#

nothing officially approved

#

i personally said "yes the Phaethon Dynasty lore looks good"

#

in a workshop level

hidden path
#

I'll be assisting with adjusting it from the USSP side and the Colonel (Talon Voss) shall assist with the TSF side o7
we shall unite to figure this out

analog pollen
#

not sure what's on the github

#

he made a doc

#

somewhere here

#

one second

analog pollen
#

his lore document is there

hidden path
polar thorn
hard mesa
chrome frost
#

Ohhhh this doc. I remember reading it, its quite good. Have you been updating it with feedback or adding more stuff?

polar thorn
hidden path
#

and much adjusting :D

chrome frost
#

?

hidden path
#

nope

#

xD

#

but

#

we're working on it ™

chrome frost
#

Nah i just wanna find where the "latest" updated lore you guys have is

#

Would that be the wiki

#

Cause i want to read up on it and give feedback

hidden path
#

oh

#

ewll

#

we're in the process of

#

gathering it

chrome frost
#

I have my own writing experience so i wanna see if i can help with some of it

hidden path
#

xD

hard mesa
#

its a rough gathering experience

hidden path
#

:D

chrome frost
#

Just send everything you have to me

#

Ill look through it after work and give my feedback

#

I remember last time i read the doc it was pretty good but theres just a few details that needed some touches

hidden path
#

#1429592341059997718 message

chrome frost
chrome frost
#

@polar thorn

polar thorn
chrome frost
#

Do you think the bluespace portal technology would have been supersized to create something like gates

polar thorn
chrome frost
#

For fast travel between more developed sectors

polar thorn
#

theres no reason it couldnt be

chrome frost
sleek geyser
#

Bluespace is very experimental ans very catch-all-handwavium so making it a part of everyday longhaul transit is going to have some unwanted incongruencies.

Generally want to have bluespace not have a lot of details so event runners have more freedom in using it as a plot element without worrying about contradicting any details.

#

It's one reason why i like to keep hyperspace(everyday FTL) separate from bluespace(supercharged FTL but there may be spooky side effects)

chrome frost
#

the only difference is these would be supersized to fit spaceships

sleek geyser
#

Oh with those 3x3 tile gateways you can turn on/off i've not associated them with bluespace.

Unlike RD's teleporter that don't need such a structure.

i've typically liked the "NT discredited the gateways so they can keep selling plasma-based FTL" explanation.

chrome frost
#

But yes both

#

They're the same technology imo just different sizes

sleek geyser
#

i consider RD's tele bluespace but not the big gate

chrome frost
#

ships on monolith are pretty small so i dont see why not

#

Gateways wouldn't be a megastructure type of project

#

Only stationsized

sleek geyser
#

Yeah i can roll with that.

Nothing about em that'd make them need to be bluespace-related.

chrome frost
#

But then how do you wanna explain em

#

Cause for most unexplained tech shit NT pulls, bluespace is the scapegoat

#

I dont see why teleporters would be any different or unrelated

sleek geyser
#

Forgetting the handwavium 1.0: Plasma

chrome frost
#

Okay but we are familiar with things plasma can do and plasma doesn't do space fuckery its energy fuckery.

#

Unless im missing an example

sleek geyser
#

Plasma discovered first, then FTL via plasma power output, then bluespace

#

The other approach i've liked is:

  • beacons/gates for boosting vessels that are at least barely FTL capable into higher speeds. Additive not multiplicative so faster vessels don't feel as much of a boost
  • hyperspace, typically a label for vessels that can "offroad" without the beacon/gates network at a good speed.
  • bluespace drive: casually go from different corners of settled space within a week for whatever the round event planners have in mind
chrome frost
#

Call me crazy but i think gateways are definitely more advanced than FTL because its instant teleportation

#

Its bluespace just better and more stable

#

FTL is just more rudimentary and easier to reproduce

#

Portals were just the peak of NT bluespace tech

#

And never replicated afterwards

#

So the gates that remain from corporate era would be the only gates left

sleek geyser
#

Oh it is better than FTL if you can get it set.

Doesn't necessarily make the gates bluespace

chrome frost
#

They're bluespace

#

imo

#

But we're talking about headcanons so this would go nowhere if we argued

#

I just dont think there's a better explanation inlore and the simplest answer is the best one if you dont want to make a headache of worldbuilding.

#

So id keep portals as bluespace related in my hc

coarse oar
#

starsector gates

#

this is how it will go

sleek geyser
#

To lay it out my preference is to set it up so its harder for event runners to accidentally contradict what's established by having a simple separation.

#

Gates are cool. Bluespace like any handwavium is fine in moderation.

But bluespace does not need to be behind every supertech.

chrome frost
#

Oh no

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not at all

#

Bluespace is just whats behind SPATIAL tech in my hc

#

It covers things to do with space manipulation

#

its in the name..

#

Therefore, portals and ftl

sleek geyser
#

That is a reasonable categorisation.

I've usually taken the "space" as in dimension.

Like the "-space" in realspace, cyberspace, subapace

chrome frost
#

I get that, personally I dont see bluespace as covering all dimensions. It is just ONE dimension that NT managed to stably access thanks to plasma and then decided to use it for spatial tech research.

#

Similar to how the nether is used

sleek geyser
#

Oh i meant it like the nether.

I just mentioned those -space types since they're upper/lower layers compared to realspace

#

Another nether-like example is Star control's layering like: realspace <--> hyperspace <--> quasispace

#

Redspace is a mistake contained by treating it as "part of bluespace that's higher energy"

viral wedge
#

Bluespace is just The Warp from 40k but Demons don’t eat you, occasionally you just get stuck in Bluespace bubbles and can travel several hundred years in the future. clueless

digital plover
#

bluespace has lore?

#

we basically just use it to hand wave sci fi kino things

coarse oar
#

bluespace is handwavium

sleek geyser
viral wedge
civic cradle
#

My interpretation of Bluespace was always sorta like, star wars hyperdrive travel, or a very tame 40k Warp. Very handwavium, just a standard sci-fi trope that works well enough for getting to point A to point B or explaining why weird things or creatures just appear sometimes (Lavaland Veterinarian clinic for the win).

topaz mirage
#

Oh yeah
Bluespacehuh

Can't say I'm overly familiar with it tbh, my SS13 experience was mainly on Goonstation, they don't really talk about it in their lore, even though it's pretty major for NT on other servers

This is one of those refer to Para lore type of topics for me

candid cape
#

@hasty smelt here

hasty smelt
#

Ohohoho

#

I will now read through this entire chat

sleek geyser
#

Oh yeah Goonstation does not have a bluespace.

However separating hyperspace and gateway tech from bluespace is consistent with Para lore.

hasty smelt
#

Alright good little read

viral wedge
#

Bluespace is basically just whatever you want it to be

#

FTL uses Bluespace

#

Weird mutated space monsters? Bluespace.

#

Anomaly teleports you around? Put you into bluespace for a second and you were lucky enough not to get trapped in that realm.

#

Something that can’t be explained naturally? Bluespace. It’s just classic SS13 handwavism.

hasty smelt
#

I thought it was said somewhere bluespace was just infinite expansion and red was the inverse

#

Hence how bluespace containers are so large

digital plover
#

except what is a bluespace crystal

hasty smelt
#

Very dense pocket of energy

#

Cracking it causes the energy to spill out or somin expanding or stretching space

viral wedge
#

Bluespace is effectively its own pocket realm that kind of mirrors our own? We breach into it to travel over large distances in our own realm fast. Bluespace has influence over things that are over exposed to it. Resulting in a lot of the weird space fauna like Kangaroos, Spiders, Bears and other weird things. There have been Bluespace Humans Mobs too but a lot of servers didn’t use them. Bluespace Crystals are, as Bot said, dense pockets of energy. In baseline SS13 if you threw a Bluespace crystal at someone it would randomly teleport them around. Same went for it you stepped on it. You breach the unstable crystal and it yeets you.

#

Here it’s much less reactive lol

naive shuttle
#

Bruh, bluespace was always meant to be a representation of 4th dimension.

#

Its essentially matter, position, reality and time folded into itself indefinitely. Devices using BS simply abide to those forces, allowing them to be shaped.

hasty smelt
#

its certainly something

naive shuttle
#

concrete definition was always an open end for story telling and gameplay purposes. There are plenty of examples in ss13, but most basic is Charlie Station, NT station put into early cryosleep in disrepair and ruin for 200+ years. Its specificaly made pre-bluespace in mind (no one but creator gave a fuck tho). Later people just started calling anything bluespace because they couldnt just say "magic"

hasty smelt
#

i mean either of these work, it doesnt need to be horrendously in depth

viral wedge
#

It definitely is

#

Handwavism

#

Fuggin Wizards use Bluespace cause Magic doesn’t exist clueless

#

(It does exist but it’s related to deities and that’s just Bluespace manipulation anyway)

hasty smelt
#

wizard magic exists because the wizards deemed it so

#

simple as

viral wedge
#

Wizard Federation are just a bunch of mad scientists that larp as wizards because it’s cool. Their wands/staves? Just miniaturized Bluespace portals that open in certain parts of Bluespace to produce a certain thing (like fireballs).

hasty smelt
#

local homeless scientist in pajamas makes other person explode

viral wedge
#

Animation Stave? Just enough Bluespace juice being pumped into a thing to give it a momentary taste of what all Bluespace beings have, murderous rage

chrome frost
#

Yo who has a link to the wiki @polar thorn

polar thorn
languid bluff
polar thorn
#

this proposal shall be frozen in time until we get definite word on the matter of lore by fluffenheimer godo

livid knot
#

One message removed from a suspended account.