Rework IFF consoles

[tulip drift]

I see lots of people complaining about this and that, all including the IFF console, I personally think it should either be made illegal, or rogue only

[tiny sonnet]

I'd keep it faction, not just rogue, especially w/ the ASR becoming PDV soon and no longer having a hidden base 👍 information is power in warfare, and only one side being able to hide their shuttles sounds like shit

[normal night]

I disagree heavily as MIL need them to not be insta snipped by ADS and for other various reasons.

[tulip drift]

You complained about the IFF rule, here's my fix

[normal night]

I agreed that ADS should hail first for the civis.

I rarely run Civ so it doesn't effect me personally at all.

Just because it doesn't effect me doesn't mean I can't agree with the topic at hand.

[tulip drift]

Not necessarily, automatic firearms aren't fully legal in the US, but the military have them, that's what I want for the IFF console

[tiny sonnet]

I know but I'm saying both the TSF and PDV should have IFF consoles, and not just PDV. Else it's gonna be a series of attack the TSF will never see coming cause they always have big blue markers on them. Either both sides get them or neither do

[normal night]

IFF is needed for MERC/ASR/TSF
That's just plain and simple.
As a MIL shuttle you don't get a hail, if you have IFF on you'll be sniped by ADS without so much as a warning.

[tiny sonnet]

You'll also be shot without warning by ADS with it off if you are running a MIL shuttle it doesn't change much

[normal night]

Yes but you can flee upto 3+km and they lose you
Impossible without IFF console

They will just FTL and snipe you, you can't get away from them if your shuttle has MIL slapped on it.

They also have the fastest thrusters round start, super weapons, and strong walls.

[tiny sonnet]

The thruster thing is flat out false. They have lots of forward thrust but poor braking and strafing
Walls are standard plasti. None of them have had armor upgraded in a while, and capital plasti is becoming the norm on big shuttles

[tiny sonnet]

Also to this. With detection rework. If you are in a big heavy shuttle w/ a lot of guns your thermal sign can be picked up from 4-6km out

[normal night]

I shot an ADS with those big 90 mms and it ignored me
I chased it and it out ran me backwards.

[tiny sonnet]

You get into a fight? Even linger

[normal night]

Regardless 4-6km is better than the entire map.

[tiny sonnet]

Which model was it? Most ads have 2 rear thrusters. 4 max

[normal night]

Without a console I can never hide ever at all.

[normal night]

I'm bad with names
It has the giant sniper on the front
I know because it sniped me off screen and I had no time to dodge.

[tiny sonnet]

Zenith, that one has 4 reverse thrusters

[normal night]

Point is, if ADS, ASR, TSF have IFF consoles and Mercs don't
Then why ever choose a Mil shuttle?
You'll just always be a target, unable to hide, and it'll just be a matter of time until you're sniped off screen because that's valid for ADS to do.

[normal night]

I dunno man, maybe it was an admin special then.

It out ran me easily, going backwards.

[tiny sonnet]

At one point someone upgraded the fuck out of a zenith to go hunt it's prey

[normal night]

Might have been it then.

[tiny sonnet]

As in, a player in round soup'd up it's thrusters

[normal night]

Nah this was def a ADS

If we wanna make IFF illegal for non MIL shuttles then that's fine I guess?
I doubt anyone would actually enforce it.

However removing them, is just in poor taste.

Fucking auto correct phone.

[tiny sonnet]

No no, I was saying a player who wasn't the ADS offered to upgrade the ADS. I also did this once when I was playing cause the TSF had pissed me off

[vocal heron]

people take mil shuttles to frag. i don't think theres a single Mil shuttle that offers substantial benefit over a regular exped one besides more guns + armor

[normal night]

Oh gotcha
Yeah I've done that as well
When TSF pissed me off lol

[normal night]

Yeah I agree, but removing IFF gives them a substantial disadvantage.

[mental pawn]

Here's my take on it:

Remove IFF consoles from the Exped Lodge Flatpackvend, and all Faction ships with a FEW exceptions depending on the ship's purpose. (make sure to make the consoles unanchorable)
Make the IFF consoles more accessable in research to factions in their late tier research, or just leave it as it currently is in the main Research Tree.

This will likely result in Mercs and Factions either working on researching and producing consoles for their fleets, or buying the console boards from Civilian Researchers.

Basically, no IFF in the early game for the people who buy shit like the Europa to frag, but you can still get them relatively late into the round around Portstrike hour if your research isn't lacking.

[vocal heron]

you are buying a ship focused around combat and then putting an IFF computer. i don't think you can be shocked when you encounter combat from the roles specifically designed to hunt militant ships

i think if anything, you should only be able to hide your IFF for a limited time, like how full cloak works

[normal night]

That is simplifying it and ignoring my point.

IF they have IFF abilities and you don't, but you're a valid target without escalation, you will lose.

It's punishing Merc players for no reason.

This suggested started because civilians are being sniped by ADS because they turn off their IFF.

[normal night]

That's not a bad idea.

Giving IFF consoles a cool down is a really neat way to prevent people hiding all shift and allows you to flee.

Also it would work entirely fine since ASR base is going to not be hidden anymore soon (TM)

so their ship spawning in with IFF isn't a big deal.

[vocal heron]

Merc/Civ players are making the decision to hide their IFF, with the general knowledge that it will almost definitely draw attention if they get spotted by TSF, ASR or ADS.

I think the issue is more with ADS laws than IFF, since right now its All Frag or Nothing, leaving ADS no room to investigate or decide on its own if an IFFless target is valid or not

[normal night]

I agree with that, but that's discussed here
https://discord.com/channels/1329292619834069034/1436186841110806712
But it seems they're coming to a somewhat conclusion on it

[vocal heron]

most civs/mercs aren't a target by TSF/ASR until they make themselves one, nobody cares about john exped or salvage mucking about in a mil vessel, but ADS does, simply because they are iff cloaked

[normal night]

Yes but again, ADS target MIL shuttles.
They also can snipe you from 1.5km away.

Meaning they can and will pull up, snipe you fly away solely because your ship says MIL.
No escalation no hail nothing.
Because at the moment the rules state, they don't have to.

So if mercs shuttles say MIL, and have no ability to hide said MIL they will be sniped anytime they aren't actively sitting on their consoles or at a safezone.

Any RP while flying a MIL shuttle will have to happen directly on your console because even Handheld won't warn you fast enough to dodge the charon shot rapidly approaching your spot

[tiny sonnet]

I will say again only a single ADS can snipe from that far and it's the zenith. The one that can't hide itself. Nebula can snipe but it's gun is a huge EMP and does no actual damage. While the razor is just a tiny fighter

[normal night]

I'll be honest with you, I only see zenith anymore.

[tulip drift]

I'm saying both should have it, the civis shouldnt

[normal night]

Or wyvern

[tulip drift]

Sorry for taking a while, I had to drive to my school

[normal night]

No rush on discussions man.
All good.

[tiny sonnet]

Wyvern you see cause there are unwhitelisted roles on it so it Cna pop up from a random Asakim taking it

[tiny sonnet]

👍

[tulip drift]

Much appreciated, but what I mainly wanted is for only MIL TSF and the Rogues to have the IFF consoles

[normal night]

If mercs keep the IFF I'm all for it.
Just keep it on the MIL shuttles.

[tulip drift]

Not the exped, civi ships and stuff

[normal night]

I agree with that then.

[tulip drift]

Only the ships that are capable of combat should have them

Or more so, meant for combat

[normal night]

Would stop a lot of complaining, and they'd be encouraged to hire a Merc if they really want to be left alone.

[tulip drift]

Seeing as the IFF would be the ships registration and stuff, at least in my eyes

[tulip drift]

Yea, but mercs also use exped ships a lot that I've seen, I don't see as much MIL ships

[normal night]

Well to be clear
MIL not necessarily all Merc shuttles

I just misspoke

[tulip drift]

I'm glad we found something we could agree on

[normal night]

I'm actually a very reasonable person until I have six people coming at me sideways.

[tulip drift]

I'm aware of that I mean MIL as in military class shuttles

[tulip drift]

I wanted to give my opinion and hear you out, but as you can see it isn't easy when there's 8 people shouting at eachother

[normal night]

MIL and factions and even ADS should be the PVP side
And expect to PVP if civis are getting caught up regulating it and making it slightly more difficultt to get an IFF a console means you can't complain anymore because you went out of your way to do so and should have known the risks.

[tulip drift]

I try to stay reasonable, but it gets hard to do that when I get pissed at something

[tulip drift]

I personally think the civis shouldn't be able to buy the console itself, because they just end up putting themselves in danger

[normal night]

And I don't like feeling like I get ganged up on and easily get overstimulated and overwhelmed and start sounding like an insane person.

[normal night]

Expeds have em as a loot pool and VGROIDS
So we'd have to remove them from the pool entirely.

[tulip drift]

I apologize for that

[tulip drift]

Well the whole point of those ships are meant to haul loot, I use to have 1 or 2 fighters with me to protect me, but I can see your point in wanting them to keep the console

[normal night]

Nah youre fine you were respectful and tried to keep everyone civi
I appreciate it
Others made me feel that way

[normal night]

Personally I am all for civis not having em even as a smuggler
you wanna snuggle as a civi?
Hire mercs
Like, the mercs and MIL shuttle have a purpose now.
They are decent at fights.

Also snuggling makes so much money
You can easily hire mercenaries

[tulip drift]

I just realized I have no class

Drove 20 minutes for nothing

[normal night]

RIP lol damn

[tulip drift]

I guess a more fitting name for this thread would be rework

[tulip drift]

It also boosts the economy and RP in the server

Instead of everyone being greedy and mostly silent over the radio

Rework IIFF consoles

[normal night]

So we agree on
-Remove flat pack Iff
-Add IFF consoles to all mil shuttles
Make it illegal for civi to have IFF
And possibly remove IFF consoles from the loot pool?

Just trying to get the idea together
If I'm wrong correct me

[tulip drift]

Possibly, but I still agree on the fact TSF and ASR should have them also

[normal night]

Oh for sure
That would remain unchanged
Sorry

[tulip drift]

I want the IFF to be contraband, like how some weapons are

[normal night]

Could make it C2

[tulip drift]

Yea, but we would also need space police again, since TSF is more of a military

[normal night]

I mean yeah NFSD would be nice lol

TSF shouldn't be space police

[tulip drift]

Ntsp I think it used to be on this server

[normal night]

Driving home also

[tulip drift]

Nano transen space police

[tulip drift]

I'm about to rn😆

[tulip drift]

TSF should mainly be on battling ASR and the ADS

[tulip drift]

I guess we should sum it up, to give the maints an easier time when going through this

[tulip drift]

Rework IFF consoles

[marsh fjord]

I just frankly wish
To have a have a vessel
That doesn't immediately bring suspicion
That's also tough to kill

So I can reasonably board ships for my play style
Also it's really hard to be a assassin in Mono

[gentle dragon]

TSF also has better ships than rogues imo, and unless they are completely blind seeing a thermal sig approaching should raise alarm bells for em

[tulip drift]

the rogues, atleast from what I've heard, are going to get better wships

[limber shadow]

Yes I was that zenith too