nerf bb unc and joker???

[wintry rover]

they just focus on the profit and injecting dopamine into little ipad kid’s brains so they keep playing it with new trash limited styles

[zealous scarab]

At least this styles balance And they just did a rebalance a few weeks ago

[wintry rover]

the rebalance isn’t even done I’m pretty sure

[thick cosmos]

This style is not balanced gng

[zealous scarab]

It's is gng

[wintry rover]

joker is good for a limited, mostly balanced

however some of its moves are a little

funky

[thick cosmos]

Everything else in its kit but 1 move is balanced

Just nerf that one move and its completely balanced

[wintry rover]

correct

[zealous scarab]

Wdym

[thick cosmos]

Scoring the ball, then getting it again by pressing one button is not balanced

Doing something stupid and pressing one button to get the ball again is not balanced

[zealous scarab]

Luck base you just unlucky 😞

[thick cosmos]

Right

Always "luck" based

[zealous scarab]

Exactly at least he didn't do a hundred percent granted still

[thick cosmos]

Stupid excuse for the bad players

[wintry rover]

it’s still buns

like wdym 50% chance you’ll immediately get the ball back

remember it’s half and half

[zealous scarab]

And you can steal it back

[wintry rover]

it’s usually stolen back

[zealous scarab]

Just be close to him

[thick cosmos]

You cant when they're on the other side genius🤡

[wintry rover]

mustn’t forget people can pass or use other moves in their kit

[zealous scarab]

Jackpot

[wintry rover]

• they’re on the opposite court

[zealous scarab]

Goofy

[wintry rover]

it’s dribbleabke

[thick cosmos]

Jackpot won't work when you just scored and you're on the other side

[wintry rover]

not guaranteed steal

[thick cosmos]

What do u not get about getting the ball back after scoring

U must have an iq of 5

[zealous scarab]

When I'm playing against a joker I stay close to him and look I'm sum how get the ball when he uses his ability

[wintry rover]

people who defend this are trash at the game

[zealous scarab]

Just play defense stop playing defense on one person

[thick cosmos]

You cant play defense after the opponent just scored are u stupid

[wintry rover]

LMAOOO HOW’D HE GET TIMED OUT

[thick cosmos]

Deserved

Bro cant understand a simply logic

"Oh just stay close by them"

They on the other side of the court gng

No ability saving you from a braindead ability

[wintry rover]

realistically only mobility moves could ‘counter’ that specific move if used afterwards

not steal moves

either way it’s still funky

mobility moves won’t always do the job anyway

[thick cosmos]

If someone plays mid and then they score

They're inside their 3 point line

U cant steal that

No matter what

[wintry rover]

correct

[thick cosmos]

Theres 0 counterplay aside from rng

Which is stupid

[zealous scarab]

are you mental talking about when they get the ball Goofy

Who talking about after they score

Talking about simple logic

[thick cosmos]

Me for the past 5 mins genius

Thats what I've been talking about

[wintry rover]

that’s literally this topic

[thick cosmos]

Oh how stupid u look

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-cat-catlaughing-laughingcat-point-gif-7577620470218150413

[short hearth]

dawg hes saying theres 0 counterplay to the ball being teleported into the ops hands

[zealous scarab]

I mean I play against Jokers and I got the ball every time he used the ability

[thick cosmos]

See even this guy gets it and he just entered the chat

[zealous scarab]

And that does sound like a skill issue to me

You just suck

[thick cosmos]

What do u not understand

[thick cosmos]

U cant get the ball

When they inbound

[wintry rover]

oml

[thick cosmos]

Theres no way ur this dumb

[wintry rover]

this guy is tone deaf

[zealous scarab]

Gng do u not get it he can steal back like bro 😭

[thick cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-gif-9791600234365446047

This dude

[short hearth]

your ignoring the whole issue dawg its not abt skill even if YOU can get the ball back a majority of people in this game do not have the knowledge you do

[thick cosmos]

Its not even that

No matter what knowledge u have

Theres no saving you from someone using the skill after scoring

And getting another free posession

You cant steal it back because they are on the other side of the court due to force teleport

[zealous scarab]

Guess what Goofy

https://tenor.com/view/anime-rage-bait-rage-ragebait-jojo's-bizarre-adventure-gif-6165949868010589137

[short hearth]

dawg...

[thick cosmos]

@wintry rover you seeing this?

[zealous scarab]

I was rage
Baiting the whole time

[short hearth]

your so boring

[thick cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/marlon-fooled-internet-irony-tiktok-aura-gif-17050673343140792762

Bro thinks he's marlon

Yk what maybe you're a visual learner

[frosty sphinx]

Joker’s recovery teleport gotta go

[thick cosmos]

Lemme show u what I mean

[frosty sphinx]

I agree

[zealous scarab]

Now I'm about to go rage Bait other people to complete my My challenge that my brother gave me so I could get robux

[frosty sphinx]

Unc atp idgaf cuz I’ve been hit with so many braindead moves his whole set goes over my head

[short hearth]

alot of moves in this game need a damn rebalance

[frosty sphinx]

“The great rebalance”

[thick cosmos]

I just accepted that no matter what unc does, its gonna end up leading to a easy 3

[frosty sphinx]

Yeah that gots us somewhere

[zealous scarab]

I just want to ask a simple question what's so unbalanced about the joker style

[frosty sphinx]

Is this bait?

[zealous scarab]

I just said simple question

[short hearth]

this guy bro

[frosty sphinx]

The answer is the subject of the thread bro

[short hearth]

you got nothing to add to the convo leave big dawg

[zealous scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/you-have-to-go-your-own-way-do-your-thing-be-yourself-independent-do-you-gif-14057273

[short hearth]

lol i mean ig

[neon mantle]

if they just stopped making "all-rounder" styles then the game would be better

an all-rounder shouldnt be insanely good at everything they do

[short hearth]

fr man

[neon mantle]

a good all rounder would have decent abilities across the board that get the job done

[wintry rover]

what a sad lame excuse for ragebait

[neon mantle]

not better versions of either defense focused or offense focused styles

[short hearth]

fr like joker has jackpots awakening move as a base move albeit its 50% but thats still a 1/2 chance you just get the ball with zero effort required

atleast jackpot has to manually steal the ball joker just has to press a button

[neon mantle]

and their only justifiable answer to a move like that is "It's limited"

[zealous scarab]

Man I don't know why yall crying because he just going to make another overpowered limited I don't know why yall make these suggestions and y'all know he's going to get nerfed anyways

[neon mantle]

the whole point is that no one wanted "over powered" styles in the first place

[wintry rover]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-trying-not-to-laugh-holding-laugh-gif-3669331249104858057

[zealous scarab]

I just gave up on life

It's the same with him

[wintry rover]

every style on release has been too op

it’s always been like that

emperor on release, gold on release, chrollo and tatlis on first release, yadayada

[neon mantle]

its only for money

[wintry rover]

Correct

and for the audience lacking dopamine

all they care about is the profit and player engagement

[neon mantle]

thats why they dont care about the "smart" complaints

because whats smart doesnt get them money

[zealous scarab]

And chrollo been rage baiting you he like to see y'all mad that's why he make overpowered styles and limited I don't know why yall for ts

He even confirmed it in his videos

[wintry rover]

https://tenor.com/view/cretoi-icssmoke-gif-18150152580473674997

[zealous scarab]

It's real though

[wintry rover]

that’s not a good excuse

[zealous scarab]

Not excuse buddy

[wintry rover]

he still has a WHOLE company and a WHOLE community of people for his roblox games

[short hearth]

so what we care abt balance man we want a game thats fun not spam simulator

[wintry rover]

something like “oh he’s ragebaiting you all” is genuinely stupid

[zealous scarab]

He's going to do another one soon soon probably not soon like in 5 months 😔🙏

[neon mantle]

if he repeats what hes been doing in soccer zero

no one is playing it

[zealous scarab]

It's true bud he like to see y'all mad bud

[short hearth]

fr like ill give it a test run but if it turns out like tennis zero im dropping it week one

[wintry rover]

then imo that’s a bad creator

[zealous scarab]

It's funny to him if I was the creator it would have been funny to me too

[wintry rover]

what person derives off of someone’s suffering 😭

[short hearth]

thats how you lose your community bruh ts aint funny

[wintry rover]

then just yk that community will eventually fall apart

‘ragebaiting’ people for profit reactions and engagement is stupid

that’s HOW you get a community mad, not how you ‘hype’ up or energize them

[zealous scarab]

I mean it's kinda of funny to me to bc people posting tiktok of psychic dragging them back to the hoop they don't even be aware

[wintry rover]

what does that have to do with the entire situation

sure haha funny animation moment funny ability moment

but what else??

[short hearth]

were not talking abt that bruh💔

it might look funny but im sure someones frustrated abt something like that happening to them

[zealous scarab]

Ig u right

[wintry rover]

https://tenor.com/view/think-bro-gif-22403438

[foggy heart]

Yo anyone who actively defends joker wildcard needs to be taken out back and put down like a sick dog, literally just played 2 matches of 2v2's where me and my partner lost cause the joker would use it on us when we were supposed to have ball round start ts is so god damn free

[tawny moon]

dude i got a funny story, so i was playing 2s with a buddy and i stole it from a joker and shot, i see the ball disappear mid air and i start tweaking bro

[woeful phoenix]

Gng stop hating bc u don’t have joker bro

[foggy heart]

I dont want joker, I want emperor, and i mainly use gold 😒

[zealous scarab]

Dang Yall going to be cooked for Christmas and November and January I could guarantee you those three limited going to be overpowered

[foggy heart]

How about you take the boot out your mouth and actually call out the devs for the trash balancing my god seen you in here just saying "oh they dont care they'll just release another strong style anyways"

[meager violet]

why would this matter

the best solution is for the community is to stop playing

u saying this doesnt change anything

we have been suggesting balance changes and to stop releasing overpowered slop since the game came out

but if people keep playing and earning the devs money even on bad updates

then of course they gonna continue

ur best bet is to stop playing this game

and if others do the same

then the devs might finally listen

[slender quail]

sometimes the best solution is not a realistic solution

Sunk cost fallacy will keep most players playing the game even if they don't enjoy the state it's in. They will have to drop another pt. 1 chrollo vs tatlis for most of the community to stop playing but even then, it'd at most be half

[past hornet]

In what universe is this the best solution

[slender quail]

Unironically, the more ideal solution is for the part of the playerbase who's brains aren't rotted to the core like chrollo's to stop playing

BBZ would purely be a bot farm and the low attention span of the current generation would take it's course

[meager violet]

in this universe?

[meager violet]

yeah i get that but its js annoying seeing ppl complain over and over

thinking this time its gonna change something

[slender quail]

When you dominate your genre, nothing can really shake you unless a new game comes out and it starts robbing your playerbase

Which is realistically the best case scenario for bbz to be good

Games like dead by daylight and 2K get away with frequent terrible updates/decisions because it's risk free, they have no competition

Every other basketball game on roblox compared to bbz rn is low quality and overall bad. Someone needs to make a game that rivals this game in both of those categories, or straight up be better

So unless that happens, the players can only really complain for chrollo to release half baked updates risk free

[brave pasture]

@zealous scarab youre delusional btw

[earnest current]

half baked?

https://tenor.com/view/itoshi-sae-u20-360-spin-aura-gif-13695612023368078634

[wintry rover]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-trying-not-to-laugh-holding-laugh-gif-3669331249104858057

being called out is crazy

[zealous scarab]

Funny how you call me delusional while living rent free in your own denial like shhhh up goofy

[brave pasture]

sure buddy

[zealous scarab]

Now go help with questions like you're supposed to do

[brave pasture]

nary a single person here shares the same sentiment as you

[zealous scarab]

Idc

[zealous scarab]

Calling me delusion why you know it's true

[brave pasture]

i recommwnd you articulate yourself more before you try to spout out nonsense

[zealous scarab]

Not nonsense is true bud

[zealous scarab]

You got no proof against that

[brave pasture]

i dont think you comprehended what i said

its best you quit while youre at it

[zealous scarab]

Oh wrong word never mind

[brave pasture]

you dont seem to be particularly fortunate up there

[zealous scarab]

But I don't know who you calling
delusional tho

[brave pasture]

who do you think i pinged

when i said that

[zealous scarab]

Give me one good reason why you call me delusional bud

[brave pasture]

so you do know who i was referring to

great job pal

your deductive skills are improving

[zealous scarab]

You bring so much to the table
mostly confusion, but still

[brave pasture]

im sure if you can figure out who i was referring to

you could use those skills to do enough reflection as to why i think youre delusional

[zealous scarab]

No that's to much work

[zealous scarab]

Just tell me I don't feel like figuring it out That's too much work

[zealous scarab]

Appreciate the psychoanalysis Dr Guesswork

[brave pasture]

3 whole pings

you dont need me to handhold you through it

you got this pal

[zealous scarab]

Appreciate the confidence I’ll send you a thank you ping next time dang you must know me or something why you pinged me in the first place Tell me that I'll be waiting

[zealous scarab]

U Still hadn't tell me why you pinged me in the first place

[brave pasture]

read the message i pinged you in

surely you can remember or read

[zealous scarab]

That mean don't anything y u ping me anyway

Give a reason

[brave pasture]

im giving you a step by step to find the context

read the message i pinged you in

as i said

[sour breach]

i dont even know wht r there moves😭

[zealous scarab]

Ur being rude when. I never said anything to you btw like bro

[brave pasture]

what exactly was rude

[zealous scarab]

That ain't rude according to u

[brave pasture]

thats just honesty

just keeping it a buck

[zealous scarab]

Dang u must like me bc idk y u even ping me in the first place

[brave pasture]

nobody likes you pal

[zealous scarab]

Ok don't pinged me then

Being rude for no reason btw

[brave pasture]

not being rude

being honest as i said

[zealous scarab]

No it's not bud

[brave pasture]

thanks for agreeing

it isnt rude for a doctor to diagnose their patient no matter how harsh the news is

it be like that

[zealous scarab]

Ur not y u call me that In the first place

[brave pasture]

have you ever heard of an analogy

[zealous scarab]

No I didn't

[brave pasture]

aww

unfortunate

[zealous scarab]

Dont pinged me again bud talking about I'm delusional

[brave pasture]

i made you look delusional

lol

[zealous scarab]

Oh this rage bait

[brave pasture]

thanks for wasting your time

im surprised you didnt figure it out quick considering you were just doing the same just earlier

[zealous scarab]

Next time I c u

https://tenor.com/view/rule-rule-765-765-dbz-dragon-ball-gif-11264811342316871371

[brave pasture]

you just did

[zealous scarab]

I said next time i c u goofy

[brave pasture]

at least type it out properly

[zealous scarab]

No too much work it perfectly fine u still could read it

Don't worry I'ma get u back

[brave pasture]

4 more letters is too much work

amazing

[zealous scarab]

Yup

It perfectly fine still the same if i type it normally

[brave pasture]

people could mistake it for intensive care unit

[zealous scarab]

Don't worry I'ma get u back

[brave pasture]

are you sure

[zealous scarab]

Yup

[brave pasture]

alright that sounds like a threat

im getting mods

[zealous scarab]

Rage bait goofy

What the hell u talking about

[brave pasture]

how are you still falling for it

[zealous scarab]

I'm not mad goofy

[brave pasture]

youre still engaging arent you

[zealous scarab]

Idk what mods even do

Goofy

Well im not mad soo

[brave pasture]

are you sure

[zealous scarab]

Yup

[brave pasture]

great job pal

[zealous scarab]

Anyway I gtg

[brave pasture]

yeah thats what i thought

nah im jk

[prime temple]

What was his point

[brave pasture]

scroll up a bit im too lazy to explain ngl

[wintry rover]

he kept glazing joker’s wildcard

and believed it didn’t need any changes

[prime temple]

Ah

[wintry rover]

but while doing that

he kept ‘ragebaiting’ everyone

which is stupid

what’s the point of ragebaiting people when it comes to something like this 😭

[prime temple]

Prolly meant what he said then didn’t double down

What are some nerfs you think would be good if you said it already I’ll find it

[brave pasture]

make it

not steal the ball from any range

for starters

and not make it work on almost everything

make it only work like it was intended to

like for yk

evading blocks and steals

and not literally blink deluxe

[tidal terrace]

Reply to the message where I should scroll to

All I saw was a ping and ur delusional😭

[tidal terrace]

Oh ok

[brave pasture]

here you go

[tidal terrace]

Dude ragebait is dead now

Joy bait is the new meta

When u ruin someone's mood but make it good again

But like saying so much stuff and then backing down to say it's ragebait is just unliked

I could say some of the most racist stuff and then say it's ragebait
Was my deed good? No
What do I gain from this? Nothing
Literally ragebait is the soul reason to say I exist to exist

Or I know that I know nothing

[thick cosmos]

We all know lil bro wasn't rage baiting

He was just stupid enough to believe what he said

And didn't have the bals to double down

[tidal terrace]

Honestly this what I used to do as a Lil kid

When I was like 13

I'd say some crazy and outrageous stuff

To defend my deck in a card game💀 💀

It was literally free wins cuz it was literally so good

[thick cosmos]

Difference is his wasnt good

[tidal terrace]

It was just legendary and epic spam with a terrain that summoned more of them

[thick cosmos]

He just made himself look stupid

I was making fun of him the entire time

[tidal terrace]

Yea true

Honestly

What is this new update even gon be about

Idk why they put jokers thumbnail and his zone as something dunk related

Even tho he has ZERO dunk moves

@thick cosmos how is this real

Is the haha zone op? No
Does it make sense? No

[thick cosmos]

They just make the most random styles

And somehow fumble it

They're doing the same mistakes they made with tennis zero

[tidal terrace]

Dude when does joker jump and dunk

Like extra pumpfake is ig clown related

25% longer cooldown is interesting

But then comes the 2 absolute unnecessary buffs

[thick cosmos]

The thing is

Joker is a trickster style

Its a good idea ngl

Its just that it was executed poorly

Wild card

Is absolute madness

Theres no way they saw it and thought

Yeah

This is very balanced

If it were me

The changes I would do is

Not make it usable after you last touch the ball

To prevent being able to use it after scoring

And instead make it actually only work after getting blocked

Or stolen

And for the chance

[tidal terrace]

IN WHAT WORLD

WAS JUMPING AND DUNKING A GOOD IDEA

[thick cosmos]

Its fine its 50 but they need to make it so that when you use wildcard, you teleport to the defender to get the ball

Instead of the ball just teleporting to your hands

[tidal terrace]

I mean the zone

[thick cosmos]

Oh the zone is just a better animalistic

[tidal terrace]

Yea

[thick cosmos]

Nothing special

[tidal terrace]

IT FITS GIANT MORE

DUNKING RANGE AND HIGH JUMPS

Than animalistic

[thick cosmos]

Not really

[tidal terrace]

LOL

Def does

[thick cosmos]

Id rather have unblockable dunks

[tidal terrace]

True

But then u won't have high jumps

[thick cosmos]

Thats fine, I have snatch😂

Why would I need higher jumps

[tidal terrace]

Yes but comp players love jump and snatch

Nasty ahh

Smelling giants

[thick cosmos]

Wym jump snatch

Thats patched

[tidal terrace]

Yes

But

Ps+

Can remove it

[thick cosmos]

Oh nobody cares about that except them

[tidal terrace]

Yea true

Tbh They could have given him on ball speed

And

While using trick mirror and the zone

It makes 2 clones

Smth like that

[thick cosmos]

Honestly the scariest zone i could think of is

[tidal terrace]

In the game or

[thick cosmos]

In the game yeah

[tidal terrace]

777

[thick cosmos]

Wait

Lemme make one rn

[brave pasture]

speed dribble + 2 extra dribbles + shooting range

[tidal terrace]

There's stronger ones

U forgot about 2v2s dunk spam

[thick cosmos]

Extra speed on dribble, dunking range, unblockable dunks, and shooting range

[tidal terrace]

Heh

[brave pasture]

not a real gamemode

[tidal terrace]

5 dribbles faster dribble, speed off on ball, shooting range, extra dunking range, unblockable dunks, +20% flow gain for urself

Trust

0.025% chance ahh

And make it have like 9 extra pumpfakes

Cuz why not

[slender quail]

real basketball

you can guard 777, albeit it'll be difficult. you can't guard real basketball unless you have emperor

[thick cosmos]

Not quite, the zone i mentioned has more speed on dribbles, and has a bigger dunk range which is way more op than what real basketball offers

[thick cosmos]

Also 777 is really only unguardable in 1v1, outside of that i usually dont have much of a problem of it

[slender quail]

thought you was talking about current zones

[thick cosmos]

Naw

[zealous scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/rule-rule-765-765-dbz-dragon-ball-gif-11264811342316871371

[brave pasture]

you do know that you are engaging by replying right

is it that rent free in your head

[short hearth]

lowkey 777 did not need the buff it got. in every game i play at least one person has it and while i dont find it hard to deal with myself, it becomes a different story for any teammates i get.

[zealous scarab]

Nope 👎

[brave pasture]

"do not engage with ragebait"

why are you still engaging by replying

[thick cosmos]

Bro fell for his own trick

[brave pasture]

seems a bit counterintuitive innit

[thick cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-cat-catlaughing-laughingcat-point-gif-7577620470218150413

[zealous scarab]

No I'm. Not

[brave pasture]

yk that one family guy episode

where peter is like

OOH A DOLLAR

[thick cosmos]

yeah lmao

[brave pasture]

this dude is the exact embodiment of that bru 😭

[thick cosmos]

😂

[zealous scarab]

No

[thick cosmos]

What a joke

Bro should sign up to be in a circus

[brave pasture]

lowkey just ignore homie

he went irrelevant quick after that joker take

[zealous scarab]

Who got rage baiting made it now

[zealous scarab]

This trash no skill player still talking but shut up It was yesterday

[brave pasture]

mustve been the wind

[thick cosmos]

When did chrollo hire a clown

[brave pasture]

chrollo really stepping up his event marketing

[zealous scarab]

Get your corny head ahh out

[brave pasture]

amazing

our 🥀

[zealous scarab]

Misspelled Goofy

[thick cosmos]

Bro be doing anything but make his games better😭 🙏

[brave pasture]

welcome to current

[zealous scarab]

Ty

[zealous scarab]

I don't want to be on your team

[brave pasture]

does he know

[zealous scarab]

Oh the discord

[thick cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-gif-15944648704967844559

[zealous scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-stfu-shut-your-mouth-slap-slapping-gif-8050553153066707611

Y Are we only talking about joker basketball Uncle Need a Nerf 2

[brave pasture]

brother read the title of the post

[zealous scarab]

Y'all just talking about The joker style

I see it but I haven't seen one message about UNC style getting nerfed

[brave pasture]

people already got desensitized

basketball unc is basically just pre nerf tatlis reincarnated

people are used to it by now

doesnt mean they dont dislike it though

[zealous scarab]

Oh ok

[short hearth]

bb unc wouldnt be as problematic if the iframes and hitboxes in this game werent so wacky

[zealous scarab]

Ok

[short hearth]

they do need to remove his iframes when he uses the passing move though it makes no sense why you cant just steal the ball after he gets it back

[brave pasture]

the issue is

why does relay

make your shot atempt unblockable

even after they fixed that iframe issue for every ability pass

except chrollos

theyre definitely doing this on purpose

[zealous scarab]

Prob rage Bait

I mean he ts how many times

[brave pasture]

well uh

chrollo did admit to wanting to do that back then

[short hearth]

is that the one fix they released where unblockable passing moves are actually unblockable? i honestly forgot abt it since lock still exists and giant and star and jackpot can still grab the ball if timed right.

[brave pasture]

he probably is

[brave pasture]

no thats a different fix

[zealous scarab]

Idk y it still works on me tho

[brave pasture]

giant and star still grabs it due to how weirdly theyre programmed

as for jackpot

they dont really grab the pass

but rather steal during your start up

it just looks like it steals from the pass due to desync

[zealous scarab]

You know what crazy I was js playing and after then made a point they somehow stole it

[brave pasture]

other moves also work on ability passes

like shot sense

occasionally

and trap

as for locks intercept it genuinely just wont work on ability passes lol

same for blink

[short hearth]

i forgot abt trap dont see too many lazy worker users anymore

[brave pasture]

yeah the nerf

kinda killed it

not really a bad style by any means its just that

people used it to abuse goaltending in 2s lol

now they cant do that so they ditched it

[zealous scarab]

Like about this next limited style

[short hearth]

yeah that was really annoying especially the tech where they can shoot a 3 from up in the sky with it

[brave pasture]

remember when chrollo said that he was gonna hold back on adding limiteds for a bit

after about 9 million limiteds

[short hearth]

i remember that

[brave pasture]

he adds two normal styles

then goes right back to 9 million more limiteds

truly a current moment

granted hes not in charge of developing the updates rn but he is still supervising

i say in charge of developing because that man chrollo doesnt know how to script or animate or even do vfx and sfx

[short hearth]

honestly the quality of updates just started going downhill after they released basketball god

every awakening was either bugged or animations wouldnt work properly or some moves were bugged

hell the ball physics are still bugged to this day

[brave pasture]

game started declining after limiteds were first added

it wasnt a bad decline up until

after emperor which made it go further down

and then as they added chrollo and tatlis

it took an immediate nosedive

[short hearth]

yeah the chrollo vs tatlis upd just really showed how little they cared abt the quality of updates considering tatlis was an absolute headache to play against and chrollo wasnt any better

[foggy heart]

Tatlis is still annoying as sh to play against ngl, dont know why they dont having a guarantee steal was cool

[brave pasture]

money

[foggy heart]

I genuinely have hatred towards these devs man, its obvious that they have some good ideas but when it comes to actually executing them its always full of sh

[brave pasture]

most of the devs are great

[short hearth]

bbz before limiteds was genuinely one of the best sports games ive played it nothing was overtuned and everything was perfectly fine

[brave pasture]

its just that chrollo is out of touch

[brave pasture]

pre perfection bbz was lowkey an utopia

we had a legendary style in the top 3 and it was amazing

then after they added perfection they decided

[foggy heart]

Im fine with limiteds honestly, but its when they basically do everything and trounces all other styles is the problem

[brave pasture]

"yk what for every update lets powercreep every op style we added prior to it"

and it just snowballed into insanity

[short hearth]

i also dont mind the limiteds either its just when they dont balance test them is when it pisses me off

[brave pasture]

heres the thing right

[short hearth]

psychic was the last straw for me

[brave pasture]

they had a balancing team

big emphasis on had

because they fired their balancing team

[foggy heart]

Fr, I love playing gold, but playing into some of these limiteds with it is cancerous

[brave pasture]

now let me tell you something rick

heres a story that was told to me by a former balancing team member

[short hearth]

w gold user i love gold as well

[brave pasture]

i main star

[brave pasture]

so yall remember the abomination that was release tendril snatch

[thick cosmos]

I believe they fixed it now

Shouldnt give you iframes anymore

[brave pasture]

before i continue the story

[thick cosmos]

Last time i tried it, youre able to get blocked

[foggy heart]

Of course, watched tendril snatch steal my three point shot mid air 😭

[brave pasture]

chrollo himself said that it was unintentional behavior for tendril snatch to steal through dribbles

except that would be a lie because according to the former balancing team member

the devs specifically wanted it to go through dribbles and the balancing team wanted to compromise by not giving it iframes

which of course they werent heard at all

and on release it had both the ability to bypass dribbles and also had iframes

[prime temple]

Who was the former member

[brave pasture]

chiass

[prime temple]

Do you know why they fired them

[brave pasture]

i think he talked about it when i asked him but i dont remember why

hes banned now

lol

[prime temple]

Wow

Is that why they’re doing public vote on nerfs and buffs

[brave pasture]

yes

yes they are

the funny thing is

[prime temple]

Also didn’t venom release with no I frames but ig it was a bug

[brave pasture]

they ditched doimg balancing

[brave pasture]

no that was spider

[prime temple]

My fault

[brave pasture]

and it was intentional for it to have no iframes

for whatever reason

[prime temple]

Tatlis made that tbf

[brave pasture]

keep in mind that this isnt the first time they backed away from doing balancing and bug fixes

back then right after chrollo and tatlis were added they promised to focus on doing bi weekly balancing and bug fixes

which of course they cancelled because it didnt bring in as much money

[prime temple]

They should focus on the core community rn cos all games have this lifecycle

[brave pasture]

and right now with the great rebalancing its arguably worse because they backed out on "balancing every style" in the middle of development to create the abomination that was referee because hype and money

[prime temple]

But someone else said that styles gotta release somewhat better so people actually try them out

[brave pasture]

they also uh

[prime temple]

I’m on the fence with that take

[brave pasture]

buffed tatlis in that "great rebalancing"

which

[prime temple]

But what’s your solution

[brave pasture]

why

[brave pasture]

ngl the game is too far gone

[prime temple]

How do you get people to spin for styles while keeping it balanced

[brave pasture]

the game has had the same issues

for way too long

[prime temple]

Or for soccer zero what would be your solution

[brave pasture]

and those issues have accumulated

[brave pasture]

unfortunately we are on roblox

you can get people to spin for styles while keeping them balanced

however you wont get as much players

id say the perfect way to handle it is basically doing what drowningsome did for untitled boxing game

[foggy heart]

People will spin for styles cause its the new thing dont make them overtly broken, make them usable

[prime temple]

Only works for styles with a similar rarity or above imo. If you don’t have slots you won’t spin especially if it’s not limited

[prime temple]

What did he do?

[brave pasture]

every style can compete with each other very very well but the rarity only defines how many gimmicks a style has or how high the required skill ceiling for it is

[short hearth]

them adding a limited only inventory kinda fixed this with the exception that you still have to spin for it

[foggy heart]

There are a couple of limited styles that aren't broken but fun to use, uncle Sam, cyber is alright, limited styles dont have to always be this game breaking style, they can also actually just be fun to use

[prime temple]

Yeah but that’s my point it only works for limiteds

[brave pasture]

i personally find bbg fun despite the community not liking it

the issue with bbz styles is that they all do everything nowadayd

[foggy heart]

People use sniper and find it fun it sure as sh ain't broken

[brave pasture]

back then we would have styles dedicated for offense or defense specifically

or for rushing the paint or playmaking

and typically the all rounders they release have higher skill ceilings like jackpot or star

but now

they just overtune everything while giving styles everything

which kinda ruins the point of playstyles

[foggy heart]

That too make styles fit a certain part of a team, like defensive styles, offensive, passers, etc etc, as of now everything is just a offensive style except for a few minority

[short hearth]

theres not really a fix to what your asking for cause this is a half gambling game. style slots cost money and the only other way you can get it is through ranked. if you want a newer style that looks fun start saving and pray you get it when you spin or if your really attached to the one you have then dont spin if you really dont think its worth it.

[delicate bay]

IDEA:

False Drive
The user pretends to drive forward, stunning nearby players, before passing the ball to a teammate. Said teammate must be close to use the move.

[brave pasture]

isnt that needle pass

does the exact same thing

[delicate bay]

Not really no, think of it as chain handles' fake drive

[short hearth]

this is one of golds awakening moves yes

[prime temple]

Yeah that’s kinda the issue they’ve run themselves into. Cos people with one slot with a miracle won’t spin to try to get a legendary

[delicate bay]

The bit is that it would be faster and the teammate would have to be closer

[brave pasture]

although i generally just

dont like

guaranteed stun dribbles

unless theyre for moves that make sense like emperors dribble or quickstep drive

those are the only stun dribbles i find acceptable

[delicate bay]

Well it wouldn't be a long stun, think of it more like needle pass' stun or emp dribble stepback

[short hearth]

the other way i can see them fixing this is by hosting events with a community threshold every once in a while and slots or spins being the reward

[delicate bay]

Or you could go far enough to make it like phantom drive's stun

[brave pasture]

if its only one player then it wont be too bad

[prime temple]

Yeah with like a tournament system or something

[delicate bay]

That's my view yea

[brave pasture]

see heres the thing

they already do this

zgames

[obsidian karma]

https://discord.gg/KWvbQRxMxu

[brave pasture]

they do that here

[topaz narwhal]

Bb uncs cane move should be a 50/50 for how op it is

[short hearth]

oh yeahhh forgot abt zero games

[prime temple]

Nah but like an actual one where you just join it as a game mode. And it’s like every 6 hours

[brave pasture]

even then 50/50 is insanely generous

[brave pasture]

oh you mean like event gamemodes

yeah thatd be cool

[topaz narwhal]

I think it lets it stay at miracle if it's a 50/50

Just like switcher

[brave pasture]

switcher isnt in miracle solely because of the 50 50

[delicate bay]

Dude i hate switcher purely due to that 50/50

[brave pasture]

its in miracle because of that outrageous long cursed dash on the ball

[prime temple]

Also would revive the game cos depending on where you place you get free slots, money/spins, certain cosmetics for the season and then maybe free styles

[topaz narwhal]

Be glad its not a 100

[delicate bay]

50% makes it worse cus you're almost forced to pass anyways which forces a bad position

But since the dash is super long

They can go to the recipient

And still smack them

[brave pasture]

the issue isnt even the black flash for me

its the on the ball dash going just as far

[delicate bay]

That too

[brave pasture]

and its borderline unguardable without moves

[delicate bay]

Jst remove the on ball dash ngl

[topaz narwhal]

Naaa I'd say switcher is the most balanced one of them all

[brave pasture]

either that or reduce the range at the very least

[delicate bay]

And not a little bit either

Nuke that on ball range

[keen citrus]

ya'll forget its 50%

[keen citrus]

yea full map range is a bit annoying

[delicate bay]

I AIN'T CARE NOT ONE BIT IT'S STILL ANNOYING

[brave pasture]

which is incredibly generous for a guaranteed steal that bypasses everything

[keen citrus]

when luck causes u to lose a game

[brave pasture]

its avoidable at least so theres that

[keen citrus]

except for luck

doesn't bypass lady luck

[brave pasture]

ok

[topaz narwhal]

You can counter it by seeing how the switcher would move

If there's a empty spot he's more likely to dash there

[delicate bay]

Luck can turn the literal easiest match into a tossup

[keen citrus]

yea

[delicate bay]

Games are lost due to it

[keen citrus]

can we just rework

most luck based stuff

like unc

wild card

[topaz narwhal]

Unc ?

[keen citrus]

like not jackpot tho

[delicate bay]

Or remove

[topaz narwhal]

How's he luck

[keen citrus]

that's jp's whole thing

[brave pasture]

jackpot is well executed

[keen citrus]

75% steal

yea

[brave pasture]

despite being

[topaz narwhal]

Unc is pure hell

[brave pasture]

one of the oldest styles

[short hearth]

see that ideas good but the distance is so hard to cover youd have to always have one person staying back playing center

[topaz narwhal]

I mean that's guarding

[brave pasture]

which isnt ideal considering how awfully executed defense is in this game

[delicate bay]

Just look at lock

[brave pasture]

i sure love being rewarded for mindlessly mashing c

[delicate bay]

Yeah that's certainly the most skillful gameplay ever

Free turnover every 40 seconds or so

[keen citrus]

unless ur fighting jp

but if jp is too far away

or isn't focusing 101% of the time

its a free steal basically

AND GIANT

CANT EVEN STEAL LOCK ANYMORE

[topaz narwhal]

I think jokers wild card is fine as in the 50/50

But the range is insane

[keen citrus]

I think its annoying tho

whole game's fate is based on luck

[topaz narwhal]

And I don't get why they allow him to steal after scoring

[delicate bay]

Anyways

Uhh

[keen citrus]

bug

[foggy heart]

He can also steal unblockable gold passes, he can also steal ball in 2v2's after its been passed to you when its your ball

[keen citrus]

they refuse to fix

[keen citrus]

yea....

wild card needs a rework

[topaz narwhal]

Why would they do that

[short hearth]

this has been annoying me all day in 2s and 3s even

[keen citrus]

buns at developing

thats why

[topaz narwhal]

When they can make a useless update

For bug fixes

Rather than just fixing them

[delicate bay]

Flash gameplay idk this was like a warmup match ngl so I was playing horribly LOL

[foggy heart]

Straight up told a joker user hes being carried by wildcard in 2v2's and he denied it 😭

[brave pasture]

imma need yall to

watch this generational clip of me schooling a chrollo

[short hearth]

they dont do bug fixes immediately

they always wait a week after

[topaz narwhal]

Do they not own testers

Some hard workers over there

[short hearth]

nothing brings me greater joy than blocking a chrollos full court shot

[brave pasture]

all they can do is bring up bugs

they do their job

its just that

we dont know how quickly the bugs they bring up get fixed

now heres the thing

chrollo said he has a team dedicated to bug fixes

is he lying? probably

[delicate bay]

Sure he does

[brave pasture]

but the funny thing is right

[short hearth]

yeah that mf lyin

[brave pasture]

RIGHT AFTER SAYING THAT

HE SAYS

"if yall can compile the biggest bugs in the game in a gdoc then ill get that team to fix the bugs"

WHY WE GOTTA DO THEIR JOB BRU 😭

[delicate bay]

Cus the bums ain't doing they job

[short hearth]

i cant count how many times ive lost or won a game due to bugs that still persist to this day its so frustrating. best part is sometimes they just dont fix them like i remember when star had the jump bug and it took 2 weeks for it to get fixed

[brave pasture]

dude that bug

was tough as a star main

i get banished to the shadow realm for predicting my opponent right

[delicate bay]

Gold being the buggy mess it was on release

Oml

And that passing bug known since the game came out

They still haven't properly fixed that

[short hearth]

i love gold but holy on release just a genuine headache playing against

[short hearth]

it happened to me earlier in 2s and i lost the game because of that

[foggy heart]

I wish they reworked pressure cause I ain't gonna lie that move is not good

[delicate bay]

Gold main, can agree pre rework pressure was stupid

That and the fact that the dribble was

Weird on release

[short hearth]

fellow gold mains 🤝

[delicate bay]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3392281

[foggy heart]

I ain't really knew that you could use pressure on giant until I did it on accident, to bad its useless though cause the giant keeps his cd 😭

[short hearth]

btw it took them a month to put pressure back in only for it to do the same thing you just dont get ankle broken

[brave pasture]

NOW LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING RICK

you have no idea

how mad this made me as a former gold main

[winter vapor]

“You rick”?

[brave pasture]

we went about 5 or 6 updates

being promised a REPLACEMENT for pressure after it was removed

only for them to re add it and make it worse

it had me SICK bruh

[short hearth]

they promised a rework and yet a rework we did not get

[brave pasture]

see heres the thing

in current promises dont really mean anything

[short hearth]

promises are made to be broken type company

[brave pasture]

theyve probably backed out on around 80% to 90% of their so called promises

which is so bad that it loops around to being somewhat commendable

[delicate bay]

Can still do this doe

[brave pasture]

yeah

[delicate bay]

Can be mad funny

[brave pasture]

its basically a better instinct dash now

minus the

auto aim dash

[short hearth]

i love doing this to people

[brave pasture]

the only issue i have with pressure is that the ball just violently flings in most occasions

[delicate bay]

LOL same yoinking the ball right out they hands if they fake

[brave pasture]

and unironically

clutch pressure defense has more utility than golds pressure

[delicate bay]

Unfortunately

[brave pasture]

clutch can intercept passes and go for loose balls

gold just bypasses iframes

[delicate bay]

And it can goaltend apparently

[brave pasture]

which granted pressure defense can do

[foggy heart]

Honestly they should make it so that pressure dashes you the the person with the ball (like it currently does) and if that person commits to a shot it auto blocks them, but if said person pump fakes you get ankle broken instead

[brave pasture]

yeah but i didnt count that in as its a bug

[short hearth]

see i found a half fix for this which is just jumping when the ball gets knocked out of their hands but again half fix since it only works every few times

[delicate bay]

https://tenor.com/view/kratos-gif-27642080

[brave pasture]

either that

or just make the ball fling towards your teammate

rather than an opponent

[foggy heart]

Ya

[delicate bay]

Or just make it not fling at all

[short hearth]

this is what it should do

[brave pasture]

because its a slightly downgraded sidegrade to clutch pressure defense

[delicate bay]

And instead give you possession

[foggy heart]

Or make the ball fling in the direction of your camera

If they wanna keep the fling

[brave pasture]

hot take

now that they nerfed gold visions speed

give it back the passive alley oops but with reduced activation range

[short hearth]

it also doesnt help that it has a very inconsistent activation range sometimes i could use on someone from half court and their near a corner and sometimes i cant do it when their just barely 10 meters away

[short hearth]

i like this idea we need more of this

[brave pasture]

because rn

gold vision is a slightly worse speed dribble

with better retention

[foggy heart]

Even with the gold vision nerf I still find it so fun to use, dribble once to the left that triple to the right also got passed someone who tried to guard me with it

[brave pasture]

i occasionally use it

because i hate 777

but rn my main zones are either paint or animalistic since i main star

[short hearth]

I HATE 777

its everywhere and its so annoying

[brave pasture]

i hate using it and i hate going against it

also

if youre curious this is what 777 jackpot looks like with perfections evolution

[short hearth]

thats insane

like i genuinely wanna know why they buffed 777

i get that maybe its returns werent worth the risk but holy its so overtuned now

[brave pasture]

probably because of perfectionist just being a guaranteed jackpot back then

but the issue is

they overbuffed it

why did it need the shooting range of perfect arc

why did it need two more dribbbles

are we serious bru

[short hearth]

the only thing it needed was just a better chance to hit said jackpot if it wasnt that big a chance

it just baffles me that anyone can play sniper now with zero drawback

[brave pasture]

the thing is

the chances are all equal

every outcome is 33%

jackpot isnt any rarer than the shooting range or movement speed

for some reason

[zealous scarab]

Where cooked

[brave pasture]

yeah

the tiktok sneak peeks

they powercrept phantom

again

[short hearth]

hmm interesting honestly if they just made the jackpot chances higher i wouldnt have minded a buff not whatever it is we have now

[short hearth]

R.I.P phantom

[zealous scarab]

The limited style gonna be a ghost style and that shi overpowered u can do shadow clones and make a free point correct me if I misspelled

[short hearth]

awesome so its basically jokers awakening

[brave pasture]

you also can

turn off the lights and make the court dark

and also blur your opponents vision

aint that fantastic

[zealous scarab]

That shi is a base ability to

[brave pasture]

at this point just turn this game into a battlegrounds game

[zealous scarab]

Like chrollo wtf

[brave pasture]

we know current wants to but they cant because sports games sell more

[short hearth]

powercreeping a limited with another limited is just diabolical

[zealous scarab]

And he can make it go dark

[short hearth]

these guys making blue lock rivals balance look good

[zealous scarab]

I'm traumatized imagine what he could do on Christmas Thanksgiving and New Year's

[short hearth]

i stopped playing and keeping up with it a long time ago so idk if your referencing something that happened

[zealous scarab]

Oh

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTMx16sSK/ look at ts

[short hearth]

yknow i love this game and its the only reason i still play roblox anymore but this might be the last straw for me

i dont think i can handle anyone calling me trash or saying ez when soon i wont even be able to see where im going

[zealous scarab]

Fr

[short hearth]

like just the other day i beat someone in a 1v1 using gold while they were using chuck and they got upset which is fair but then they said im clutching with gold and then proceeded to use tatlis then say ez

[zealous scarab]

The shows he got no skill

[foggy heart]

Hot take i dont think cutscene "installs" in awakening should last long enough to reset dribbles

[short hearth]

this is the bane of my existence

especially the super long ones that have recently come out

[foggy heart]

I also dont think flows should be giving a player more than 4 dribbles, cause im sure I've seen some of these dudes with like 5 whole dribbles and that is so god damn annoying

[short hearth]

fr like the extra dribble flow inflation in this game is crazy

[foggy heart]

Like I'm so used to 4 dribbles that when the 5th comes out im cooked

[short hearth]

for me its just more ping issues sometimes like i got people stealing from me the milisecond im not dribbling which just baffles me

[foggy heart]

I had both ends of the spectrum there's time where my dribble ended and I still ankle broke someone, also had times where the ball already left my hand and was flying towards the net and I still got blocked somehow even though the person who blocked me wasnt even near me

[short hearth]

ping is also another issue with this game but thats not an easy fix so i can understand it. game just doesnt feel great when someone with higher specs and better internet has a greater advantage than you

[foggy heart]

I play on the Xbox series x so im surprised half the time when my ping even spikes especially since roblox is really the only game where the issue arises, especially recently since for some reason the server would just die and the ping of everyone would spike to the thousands except for like 2 people

[short hearth]

same i also play on series x sometimes i also get alot of times where the ping spikes up for a majority of my lobby and were all always confused if the server is lagging or not cause some people can still move just in frames

[gilded willow]

Joker needs an buff lol

[slender quail]

https://tenor.com/view/iookathernow-solluminati-gif-22586143

[past hornet]

https://tenor.com/bbnmw.gif

[lavish panther]

just delete all stun dribble💔💔💔

[digital lance]

Or fix the hitboxes bro, how am I getting stunned from a dribble when I’m behind them😭

[brave pasture]

you know whats funny

chrollos dribble

has a radius that covers about 1/3rd of the courts width

idk who thought that was a good idea but may they gain wisdom someday

[digital lance]

Ur lying bro please

[brave pasture]

i am not

unfortunately

[digital lance]

That style is so busted lol

[brave pasture]

stun + an incredibly long dribble

as you can see

there is NO reason for the stun

when your dribble already crosses omniverses

[digital lance]

Exactly bruh

We need more defensive styles atleast if they aren’t going to do a good job with nerfing offensive ones

Like why is the only defensive style a legendary😭 damn near useless bruh

[brave pasture]

the only other "defensive styles" you can really rely on

are star and giant

and even then

only giant is considered defensive

star is an all rounder

[digital lance]

Bro I hate stars jump

And with giant you have to chose between an offensive move or defensive which sucks

[brave pasture]

its even worse

people only use giant for snatch

post is lowkey

mid

charge is good but then again not worth using over snatch

[foggy heart]

Post is good in 2v2's but ya its alright anywhere else

[brave pasture]

post is good until theres a style that bypasses iframes

which also happens to be some of the most used styles in the game

[foggy heart]

True, I mean pressure does stop it but all it does it let the giant user use post again while pressure goes on CD for some odd reason

[digital lance]

Yeah it’s horrible unless your team coordinates with you, I mean unless you have a style with extra dribbles or hella speed, you need to GET to the paint to use it, but giant has no moves to get there

[brave pasture]

postform does get you to the paint from the 2 point line

the issue is

almost every meta style has an iframe bypass move

so if youre a giant and theres a jackpot for example

[digital lance]

Yes I’m saying you need to get all the way up the court damn near

[brave pasture]

you basically have one less move

[foggy heart]

That is the least hard part unless you or your team sucks

[brave pasture]

which is too much effort considering 3s are unironically easier

then again im not saying its difficult

but all that for a 2

[foggy heart]

I think to many styles have a free 3 pointer move

[digital lance]

Honestly that’s fine since they can be blocked, the issue is that being paired with crazy dribbles

[foggy heart]

Haf of them are borderline impossible to block because of how small of the block windows are or how because of how far back the step back is psychic and lazy worker example, also doesnt help that some are just straight up half court shots i.e chrollo

[digital lance]

That’s fair

[digital lance]

But honestly lazy worker is HORRIBLE, literally only has one move so it NEEDS that shot

[sly summit]

Giant is the best mythic style in the game

[brave pasture]

no it aint

jackpot and copycat outperform it by miles

[sly summit]

Imo it is

[brave pasture]

i mean

[sly summit]

Not imo

[brave pasture]

if its your opinion then thats fine

giant is the best mythic for defense specifically

[sly summit]

I use it better for offense

[brave pasture]

thats unfortunate

[sly summit]

Got legend from solo queueing with Giant

[brave pasture]

if its 2v2s

legend means nothing because the gamemode is built for toddlers

[sly summit]

Both 2v2 and 3v3s

[sly summit]

Hm is that so

What makes you say that

[brave pasture]

all you do i 2v2s

is pop an unblockable zone

hold s

spam q

space bar

repeat

[sly summit]

Eh I don't use unblockable dunk zones

[brave pasture]

zero thought process is required on plays

[sly summit]

Well it's part of the game soooo

[brave pasture]

thank you captain obvious

grass is green as well

[sly summit]

Who pissed in your cereal

Holy

[brave pasture]

aye i meant no hostility with that

[tidal bronze]

The meta is psychic and rbb

[brave pasture]

ah yes

[tidal bronze]

I don’t have psychic so I use venom to feed psychic the ball

[brave pasture]

i love me my unblockables

i either have a frame one or a literal unblockable

[tidal bronze]

Block and I use this and have since gotten diamond

Don’t get me wrong I still hate ranked

But papa needs a zone slot !!

[brave pasture]

my friend and i used to run switcher and playmaker for 2v2s

on check up i do alley oop

then next check up he switches and dunks

next checkup i nutmeg into a dunk

next check up he cursed dashes into a 3

free 9 points

[tidal bronze]

Well me and block do turns on using rbb

If my zone ran out he uses his

By the time his runs out I will get my zone again

[brave pasture]

2v2s is literally a turn based game

[tidal bronze]

If u didn’t start with ball you can just pray the opponent makes a mistake