Pokemon Scarlet-Violet Spoiler Thread

[sinful sapphire]

Also the auctions have dozens of EV berries for sale on occasion

[zealous ember]

so I have been wondering which version has so far been more popular of two?

[plush frigate]

scarlet

[zealous ember]

so to do they mark sales for both versions?

I have only seen sales for both versions combined

[sour pulsar]

Pretty cool how game freak designs all of their mons around a format you can't play in game

This is not me saying that they should balance the game around singles, i just wanted to use commander tatsugiri in the story

[spiral oasis]

ting lu is so fukn good

perfect partner for orthworm too

[swift pumice]

smogon has banned palafin and iron bundle from ou now

almost unanimously for bundle and entirely 9 ban votes for palafin

[sour pulsar]

Finally, the other offensive water types have a chance of being playable now

All 9 of them

[frozen shadow]

I think tera types should be looked over before banning more Mons

Iron Bundle might be fine without tera type into Water or Ice

[sour pulsar]

Bundle is but a small sacrifice towards the noble goal of enabling choice band pex

[frozen shadow]

Why would anyone run CB Pex

[remote compass]

Damn, I'mma miss Bundle

[balmy monolith]

Yeah no, the thing is a problem without having to tera type lol

The thing is stupid powerful

Its like spectrier but they gave the spectrier freeze dry

[frozen shadow]

It has no set up move and is way harder to set up with it

Spectrier was a totally different beast

[balmy monolith]

I think youre thinking of the nasty plot spectier set while im thinking of just the specs spectrier set the one which two shot most mons outside of dark types

But iron bundle is not okay, i would argue that tera typing bundle is a waste, thing does so much damage without it that youre better off tera typing something that needs it more

[still fiber]

Please God can I get an ability patch?

20+ 6 star raids today and counting

Already have 12 capsules

[wet briar]

I love ting lu but nobody talks about it

[swift pumice]

ting-lu is a silent killer

just silently does its job

also i think cus great tusk and iron threads are more active participants and have better defensive typing (threads) and better offensive prescence (tusks)

[uncut sleet]

Iron threads is sneaky good

[swift pumice]

its not sneaky good

it just is

tho it is plagued by small issues

its both: just shy of hitting 2hko thresholds

and just shy of speed tiers

and just shy of defensive thresholds

its like just shy of everything but it does it all just well enough to be good

cus it can spin, it can hit the right speed

cus it has eq, knock off, ice spinner

it can hit specific damages

[uncut sleet]

Don’t forget, it gets volt switch, which is hilarious

[swift pumice]

not worth running volt on it i think

spinner, eq, knock are almost entirely locked in

and pivoting with volt is weird on it cus its too fast

which is another issue for it

too fast to volt out but it wants to be second

[silver tendon]

I think the@prehistoric amongus is also pretty good

From the little I’ve seen of it

[uncut sleet]

He’s broken in doubles

[swift pumice]

you would have to tank its 2nd best attribute which is being a fast tank

[uncut sleet]

Iron hands is boo

[swift pumice]

iron hands and pawmot are disappointing

[late trail]

Is it dumb trying to build a VGC team around Snarl Stored Power Calm Mind Umbreon with Psychic Tera? 🤔

I'm still learning VGC, but Snarl is like, mandatory on Umbreon there it seems

The rest is uh

Idk I want to try Umbreon as setup sweeper

Maybe Curse Crunch is better

[ionic fjord]

I am officially underlevelled

[uncut sleet]

Hmm, umbreon isn’t going to last in early vgc meta

[late trail]

Hmm, I was thinking a Drought Torkoal partner to help with Moonlight recovery could work

[uncut sleet]

There’s a lot of cope things rn in the meta, the only things I can tell you for sure aren’t cope are

Arcanine
Torkoal
Amoongus
Specs Tatsugiri + berry Dondozo

[late trail]

Is Extreme Speed Dnite cope?

[uncut sleet]

As a result of Arcanine being meta though, there’s a lot of speculation about the water starter rising in priority

In doubles? Probably

[late trail]

Ah man it's hard to separate doubles stuff and singles stuff

[uncut sleet]

Just think of it this way, most one hit strats aren’t vgc viable

[late trail]

Ah hm

[uncut sleet]

Oh also, oranguru is fucking nuts with torkoal

[late trail]

How so :o

Also tbh, I kinda just want to have a core with a Dark 'mon... Maybe I have to go with Moon ig

[swift pumice]

another good way to tell if its vgc-related is by content creator

smogon/singles players will not give u movesets viable for doubles

[late trail]

Good point, thanks

Yeah I started watching specific doubles stuff yesterday

[uncut sleet]

Set up trick room, instruct into double eruption ko’s just about everything in the meta

[late trail]

Oh right Instruct

[uncut sleet]

I believe it barely misses ko on dondozo with tatsugiri also

Which is nuts

[crystal iron]

Could Rotom infect Miraidon

[finite plover]

[plush frigate]

New-ish shiny hunt method dropped

but it's a twist on an old favorite

[raven sphinx]

Couldn't you do it with a full party of non dittos with same gender?

[pearl hinge]

Specs or charcoal erruption is broken

Also is tatsugiri dondozo even good

I've seen a lot of people talking about it

Big having 1 mon in doubles feels kinda wack

[crystal iron]

This seems like it would reduce the chance of you getting a specific shiny tho

[remote compass]

Also aren't the starters locked?

Like they're outright fully locked iirc

Oh they're just encounter locked, eggs work

[plush frigate]

eggs work, just like swsh

[plush frigate]

yes, but you can shiny hunt different mons at the same time

[crystal iron]

I don't see the benefit

[plush frigate]

the benefit is you could hunt different mons at once

[crystal iron]

At the cost of halving your chance per pokemon

[plush frigate]

still the full odds

not lowering the chance at all

[crystal iron]

It is 1/4096 per Pokemon, but there's now a 50% chance (for 2 Pokemon) that it could be either one

So your chance of NOT getting the shiny from the other one, doubles

1/4096 x 1/2 = 1/8192

And that's only for 2 Pokemon

Your odds at finding a shiny get worse with each additional Pokemon added

[remote compass]

Yeah this seems worse than focusing on one at a time

[crystal iron]

for 3 pokemon the odds become 1/12,288

for 4 1/16,384

for 5 1/20,480

[plush frigate]

Ok but here's the thing

what if I want either shiny

[remote compass]

Then pick one at a time

[plush frigate]

but why?

[remote compass]

Because you'll get it faster

[crystal iron]

instead of posting reaction gifs, maybe explain why the reasoning is incorrect

Discourse can't devolve into both sides just writing

[plush frigate]

I'm seriously confused what you are all talking about

[crystal iron]

[plush frigate]

If I want say a shiny fuecoco or a shiny sprigatito, the odds remain the same

If I want specifically a shiny fuecoco and not a shiny sprigatito, then I just dont have sprigatito in the party

[crystal iron]

Multi-Masuda just seems like a waste of time to me

[raven sphinx]

If you're fine with either shiny, it's functionally the same, so it is just kinda pointless

[plush frigate]

same odds, but I can find either as a shiny. I see that as a win

[crystal iron]

There's no benefit to it though

There's no increase in odds, or decrease in breeding time

or anything

[plush frigate]

other then getting to hunt two mons at once

[swift pumice]

not quite

[remote compass]

If anything you're doubling the time it takes per shiny

[swift pumice]

it basically cuts the chance of either in half and adds em together

so

ur getting half chance at either

[remote compass]

If you only do one at a time, you're getting it faster

This way, you're making it take longer for the chance to get 2 different shinies

[swift pumice]

if u focus on 1 at a time, you get the full % chance

[remote compass]

The more factors you add in, the lower the technical odds

[plush frigate]

you still get the full odds, you just have the chance to get either

[remote compass]

Which in practice comes out to halved odds

[raven sphinx]

If you don't care about which one you get, then no this is regular odds

[plush frigate]

^

[remote compass]

It slows down the process for either tho

[raven sphinx]

No it doesn't, that's not how statistics work

[remote compass]

Technically the chance never changes, yes

But you're also going through more eggs for a likely similar outcome

If you focus exclusively on one, you'd have a quicker shiny

Also remember there's the whole random egg thing in the first place

[plush frigate]

You either get a fuecoco or a sprigatito

but shiny is shiny

[crystal iron]

or a random egg

[plush frigate]

yes, a random egg between fuecoco or sprigatito

[crystal iron]

no

[remote compass]

You can get an outright random egg

[crystal iron]

Don't you get a completely random egg sometimes?

[remote compass]

Yup

[plush frigate]

What?

[remote compass]

It's like a 10% chance to get a completely random egg when picnicking

[plush frigate]

wait really?

[remote compass]

Yup

It's one of the many reasons this is worse than just a daycare

[plush frigate]

weird

[remote compass]

Yup one of the many backwards ass features

Doesn't help for breeding that flame body no longer works

[crystal iron]

It's really a bizarre addition

[remote compass]

They removed all overworld abilites

[crystal iron]

That's sad

[remote compass]

Yeah

Flame Body was a life-changer

Synchronize was also great

[balmy monolith]

Flame body still works actually

[remote compass]

Does it?

[balmy monolith]

Yeah

[remote compass]

I've heard conflicting things on that one

Some people say it does, others say it doesn't

[balmy monolith]

Was confirmed by kapho's team

https://twitter.com/mattyoukhana_/status/1593352271731064834?t=oqk1DO22u84ppUp7NEeHvA&s=19

Matt (@mattyoukhana_)

Previous reports mentioned that Flame Body no longer shortens the amount of steps required to hatch Eggs. This is not true.

In the video below, I had a Carkol with Flame Body, as well as Egg Power Lv. 1 as shown from the start. These benefits stack for hatches in less than 40s!

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Twitter · Nov 17, 2022, 9:15 PM

[remote compass]

Weird

So why'd they cut the rest then

[balmy monolith]

Here you go kapho is one of the most reliable sources you can get

Well which ones did they cut?

[remote compass]

Synchronize, Arena Trap, Compound Eyes, Cute Charm, Flash Fire, Harvest, Infiltrator, No Guard, Pressure and all the reskins

Synchronize is the most notable

Although Compound Eyes is big too

[balmy monolith]

Synchronize makes sense since the natures are rolled when spawned

[remote compass]

But why do they?

[balmy monolith]

What did the others do again?

[remote compass]

They don't need to roll nature's until encountered

[balmy monolith]

For the same reason why you can see them as shiny in the overworld

[remote compass]

Arena Trap doubles encounter rates
Compound Eyes doubles hold items
Cute Charm doubles the odds a wild Pokemon will be the opposite gender
Flash Fire increases the odds of encountering fire types
Harvest is the same for grass
Infiltrator halves encounter rates
No Guard is Arena Trap
Pressure forces mons to spawn at the highest possible level in their table

[remote compass]

But shiny isn't affected by nature or stats anymore. They could have just rolled the shiny check and left the rest up to when the battle starts

[balmy monolith]

Sadly thats a lot more complicated then you make it sound XD

[remote compass]

I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard

Just have it do the shiny check when it spawns in

[balmy monolith]

As someone with programming experience
It absolutely is XD

[remote compass]

And the other checks when battles start

If they had more time, they could have done it

[zealous ember]

my team before first gym: Sprigatigo, Wooper, Fletchling, Diglett, Psyduck and Mareep

[remote compass]

That or just have synchronize work on the whole area

[balmy monolith]

The encounter ones makes sense considering encounters mechanically just work different in this game

Cute charm same reason for synchronize

Pressure is a bit surprising though

[remote compass]

I can get like Arena Trap and stuff I guess

Still seems pointless

[plush frigate]

at least flame body still work

[uncut sleet]

I’m on the fence about it

But the thing that makes it infinitely better

Is the fact that tatsugiri outspeeds most threats

So even if dondozo gets answered

Tatsugiri can clean up a lot of times

I still think it’s a 1 game surprise

And no comp player should get beat by it 2 games in a bo3

Also it loses hard to trick room

[brave igloo]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/terastallization-tiering-discussion.3711465/

Tera now up for discussion

Popular argument is Tera Type being revealed on Team Preview

[rustic raft]

doesn't that become very limiting for anything actually done on cartridge tho

[still fiber]

Doesn't it straight up get destroyed by amonguus and BB or did people find a counter?

[balmy monolith]

People in showdown stopped caring about that since sleep clause

[brave igloo]

Well it definitely isn't user-friendly for cartridge, but I'd argue that if Smogon did involve something with cartridge you'd just have a team preview available on phone to compensate

[rustic raft]

Eh Sleep Clause is way easier to do

[remote compass]

Honestly I'd prefer an outright ban

But the preview thing would be fine

[balmy monolith]

I think its fine but preview works for me too

[brave igloo]

that said, it is at least refreshing to see a mechanic that will at least introduce the idea of a middle-ground limitation

The main issue is unpredictability, but it is still far less volatile than Dynashit

[remote compass]

True, since most of these gimmicks just get banned on release (rightfully)

Fuck Dynamax

[uncut sleet]

Leads are still so experimental, that it’s hard to put stock into much of anything rn. The most successful dondozo tatsaguri players I’ve seen though, don’t lead with them, they play them in the back

[balmy monolith]

Im not as familiar with doubles as i am with singles so i cant say much on dondo tatsu

[uncut sleet]

It’s uh extremely unsolved rn for the most part, the only Pokémon I can tell you for sure are good are Arcanine, torkoal and amoongus, which are all vgc staples

[remote compass]

Ya know, it really sucks that those two mons exist in a game where 99% of the players will play single battles 99% of the time

[balmy monolith]

I wonder what mon is getting banned next in ou, gholdengo and cyclizar are both prime candidates

Roaring moon and chien pao are being watched too but they arent as immediate a problem as the previous 2

[remote compass]

There's exactly a battle in the main story where you can actually utilize their gimmick

[remote compass]

100% Cyclizar. Chien-Pao is kinda fine

Gholdengo is potentially nuts, but I think he'll stay

[still fiber]

Can't chi yu also be considered good?

[balmy monolith]

Chien pao i think will eventually be banned
But its like the least offensive of the ones in the watchlist

[remote compass]

Yeah that's how I feel too

He'll die one day, but maybe not soon

Cyclizar tho? His days are numbered

[brave igloo]

Roaring Moon also becomes less threatening by a fair margin with a Tera nerf

[balmy monolith]

Gholdengo i feel like has a massive problem of forcing you to have a mon that can punch gholdengo as a hazard remover or youre just... screwed

[remote compass]

Roaring Moon has already fallen off hard

[remote compass]

Sucker punch rip

[brave igloo]

Where's Iron Valiant in all this?

[remote compass]

Gholdengo isn't living a single sucker punch

[balmy monolith]

Iron valiant is also being watched

[brave igloo]

I do agree on Cyclizar, he is for sure getting the boot

[remote compass]

Hell, Gholdengo even behind a substitute can't take a shadow ball from Dragapult

I honestly think more people should be on pult rn

[brave igloo]

But it still isn't great when you need to force a team to run Infiltrator

[balmy monolith]

Its not staying in against something with sucker punch lol
And that is a completely different thing to why i think he might be banned

[zealous ember]

balance in Pokemon games has never been that great

[remote compass]

That's true too. But honestly? You should probably be on Infiltrator as is

I'm not excusing Cyclizar. He's a problem

But Infiltrator Dragapult has always been a heavy utility wallbreaker

[zealous ember]

they still don't seem to think multiplayer aspect

[brave igloo]

I'd say Gholdengo should get a hard-ass revisit after Cyclizar, especially if people do try to movee Shed Tail to Orthworm, despite being worse

[remote compass]

Yeah I'd say hold off on Gholdengo until Cyclizar dies

A lot of the utility in Gholdengo comes from him being able to set up behind a shed tail

[balmy monolith]

Currently if you arent using iron treads or great tusk
If the opponent has a gholdengo it becomes like infinitely harder to remove hazards which is honestly really restricting

[brave igloo]

I still also feel Chien Pao should get the axe, but we can wait to see results of a nerf / ban to Tera

Gholdengo is very centralizing

[balmy monolith]

Chien pao i say will get banned eventually regardless

Hell id argue he's more likely to get the axe with a ban to tera XD

[brave igloo]

I'd argue less, but still think he is worth arguing

[uncut sleet]

It’s going to be meta reliant. I can see a world where flutter mane becomes a common lead, where chi yu can thrive, but also chi yu is in competition with arcanine/torkoal for that spot so it’s very difficult. Also the bulk leaves a lot to be desired, that 55 hp is the only thing holding it back from Being a sure fire meta threat

Right now you have Arcanine, Torkoal as your top 2 fire types. Skeledirge is prob 3rd, and from there it’s a bunch of ????. A lot of niches, but in an unsolved meta you just play it the safest

[balmy monolith]

Also im really happy iron bundle got axed so quickly lol

Having used it myself, that thing is not okay XD

[brave igloo]

Bundle definitely needed to go after Palafin got banned

Palafin existing was the only thing I really liked keeping it around for

Which

Fuck Palafin

[balmy monolith]

Bundle was stupid the thing deleted anything it hit even those which werent very effective

And with 400 speed to boot

[brave igloo]

Bundle in the meta was also a "We needed something faster than Flutter Meme"

Which... Flutter Man got banned too

[uncut sleet]

It’s funny, because the gimmick pokemon feel super fine in doubles due to the predictability, but in singles you can see the issues arise

[balmy monolith]

Unrelated but im still happy about being right about garganacl being good in ou

What im surprised by however is garganacl is apparently also good in doubles!?

[brave igloo]

Bulky Rock

[balmy monolith]

Yeah when i said it back when garganacl's stats and move pool was leaked every time i brought him up someone went "its a bulky rock type, they are never good"

Now people either love him or are just completely annoyed by him lmao

[remote compass]

I miss Iron Bundle

He was my fair son

[brave igloo]

your son caused war crimes

[remote compass]

But it's fine. He's cute

[crystal iron]

Is Robosexual Hydreigon's love child doing anything

[uncut sleet]

I’m of the mind set that a lot of Pokémon that would normally not be very viable, are viable due to the large influx of specific Pokémon that were added to this game

Like we got an influx of dark, ghost and electric

None of which garganacl actually gives 2 shits about

Wait, garganacl gets helping hand lmfao

That’s def interesting

The funny part about doubles right now is a shit load of people are trying to make Maushold happen

And like it’s threatening enough that you respect it

But bad enough that you also aren’t super worried about it

[balmy monolith]

Same in singles

[still fiber]

I kinda wanna fuck around with a tailwind HO team

[balmy monolith]

Its like "oh no, a maushold, whatever will i dooooo" switches into a ghost type/rocky helm mon

[still fiber]

BB gets 107 speed with max investment so that's probably funny

Spore spam

[uncut sleet]

Flamigo costar teams are also pretty funny

You can tell all the gimmicks were made with doubles in mind

[still fiber]

What would be the best tailwind setters rn?

I was thinking salamence or moon

[uncut sleet]

Moon is a special attacker right?

[still fiber]

No

[uncut sleet]

Ah, damn that sucks

[still fiber]

139 attack

He has this gens fav number for spattack

55

[uncut sleet]

You got to mess with Kilowattrell in a tailwind team

[still fiber]

Chienpao, moon, bb, ttar, hands, ????

Something like that

Moon is faster and stronger but mence has intimidate

But moon has snarl which might be better

Tough choice

[uncut sleet]

Mence dies to anything ice, moon dies to fairy

Go mence imo

[still fiber]

I was thinking moon with iron head and steel tera

[uncut sleet]

That’s also an option, but then you’re spending your tera on your tailwind setter which is eh

[still fiber]

And if I lead with ttar moon it becomes the most obvious tera ever

[oblique lodge]

I will say though dondozo + tatsu was mega broken in 2v2

The format where you can bring only 2 mons

[uncut sleet]

[raven sphinx]

What the dog doing

[spiral oasis]

I got rolled by the nastiest dondozo strat

they led tatsugiri + dragapult

used endure on tatsugiri and u -turned out on it with pult into dondozo

it ate the tatsu, which then died at the end of the turn because it had black sludge

but they still got the boosts, and could switch in another mon

which was costar flamigo

[twin edge]

people been running the tastu strat for a while using different ways to goof the tatsu

[uncut sleet]

Idt it’s particularly great either. Torkoal will probably always clear smog into shenanigans like that, and then you have 2 underwhelming Pokémon vs a real team while being down 1

People are getting too cute with the gimmicks

[spiral oasis]

yeah its epecially sus in actual vgc

since it needs all 4 mon

[plush frigate]

only one more team star boss to go

[spiral oasis]

also i just found out the auctions actually sell good stuff

[plush frigate]

fighting type is the last one

[uncut sleet]

Yeah auctions are cool

[spiral oasis]

ruination is also goated vs dondozo

[still fiber]

A lot of things are goated vs it

He is just very prone to cheesing

[uncut sleet]

I think palafin is worse off in doubles than the dondozo/Tatsugiri combo tbh

It’s just too predictable

[still fiber]

Palafin is actually balanced in doubles

Crazy

[still fiber]

He is also too passive

You lose on a lot of aggression by having to switch out

[uncut sleet]

Some vgc people are still coping on the bulk up set Tbf, but I don’t see how you get away with it unless you’re vsing a team with legitly 0 answers

[still fiber]

Might as well just use iron bundle then

[uncut sleet]

Iron hands also just makes it so you A. You can’t lead with it and B. You can’t switch into it

[still fiber]

Switch palafin out

They set up tr

Click on "run"

[uncut sleet]

Lmao

[plush frigate]

152 in the dex so far 😄

[spiral oasis]

Is there any counter play to the raid mon stealing your orb charge

[still fiber]

1 hit kill builds

[spiral oasis]

Sigh, that's lame

I do see a lot of azu and iron hands

Well, where the double iron hands + miraidon failed

The double sylveon + gholdengo succeeds

[raven sphinx]

https://twitter.com/Sibuna_Switch/status/1596768465095983104?t=ifr6ZK-aaVAj6YEGXGxbNw&s=33

Anubis (@Sibuna_Switch)

Uh oh.

Pokémon Scarlet/Violet Battle Stadium currently is using the same RNG seed for every battle.

This allows us to choose moves to ensure that OHKO moves such as Sheer Cold always hit!

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Twitter · Nov 27, 2022, 7:30 AM

UH OH

UHH OHH

[sour pulsar]

[brave igloo]

Multiple setups will work -- an easy one is Fake Out + Sheer Cold as long as the opponent does not move before you.

This 100% HAS to be patched

It looks like Link Battles need to be tested for this

[remote compass]

Wait so you can always land them online?

[remote compass]

We removed 1HKO moves. Patch done

[ornate token]

a glitch that ensures something always hits can always be abused in other ways tbf aside from ohko moves

oh god imagine if Dark Void still exists

[plush frigate]

ok so I learned that iron jugulis is said to be what happened if hydreigon breeded with a robot

this is why you never read dex entries

[gloomy grail]

Hydreigon got seduced by the 1/2 damage that robot took from fairies

[pearl hinge]

Brute Bonnet is also what happens when a Mushroom(probably amoongus) breeds with a dinosaur

[swift pumice]

https://vxtwitter.com/Sibuna_Switch/status/1596768465095983104?t=qyrn-_q5gPPXbpgvU_BVQQ&s=19

best launch of any nintendo title

[ornate token]

"Day 1 patch will be coming to fix this any time now."
~Week 2~

[crystal iron]

10000000 copies sold baybee

[gloomy grail]

[still fiber]

Moves with less than 91% acc always missing on the first turn is lmao

They did it

They nerfed heat wave

[rustic raft]

https://twitter.com/theboy181/status/1596759874654048263?t=hIXCvjPnR0pmoJ6OZLwMIw&s=19

theboy181 (@theboy181)

60FPS MOD for Pokemon Scarlet!

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Twitter · Nov 27, 2022, 6:56 AM

[brave igloo]

https://twitter.com/ArloStuff/status/1596744948778688512?s=20&t=RCOrTNZeFQnT8SfCH1i43Q

Arlo 🐀 (@ArloStuff)

I just discovered that there's no limit to how fast you can spin your character and I can't stop laughing

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67208

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6259

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Twitter · Nov 27, 2022, 5:57 AM

[rustic raft]

I wonder at what point the game would break

[brave igloo]

Well it's a race

It breaking through terminal rotational velocity

or

It breaking the myriad of other ways it already is

There will be fanart of the protag drilling into the ground

[plush frigate]

I just realized why there is "4 shinies battled"

Flittle, who evolved into espartha, my teddiursa

and the shiny ditto I yeeted back in a surprise trade because it was obviously not legit

so the shiny doesnt need to ever be in a battle for it to count

[sinful sapphire]

Good shiny hunt

Now I need someone with an Iron Valiant they're willing to trade since I have a spare.

[plush frigate]

THAT ENDING WAS SO SAD

[ebon path]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/796219977631662090/1046588996123361380/RDT_20221128_0150427916377971349772192.jpg

[uncut sleet]

60 hours into the game and not a single shiny spotted

Am I just horribly unlucky

[plush frigate]

yes

[remote compass]

How the fuck are random 1 Pokemon trainers lower level than the wild Pokemon

And I crashed the game by... Walking down a hill...

Koraidon despawned randomly and it crashed

[brave igloo]

7.8 / 10 too much grass to render

[remote compass]

Bro this game is UNFINISHED

[raven sphinx]

I've had my second crash recently

[remote compass]

My first was ENTERING THE ELECTRIC GYM

The game crashes for attempting to play it

[raven sphinx]

My first was jumping in a fountain

[remote compass]

Doing anything out of the ordinary?

Or just outright jumping into it?

[raven sphinx]

Jumping right into it

[remote compass]

Classic

[balmy monolith]

Unrelated but

Was thinking back about when pope acab was talking about how they could maybe roll the shiny thing seperately from the nature roll I was thinking how I would do it and I thought of the easiest way they could do it involving seperate instances of things

And as i was thinking about it i also figured it was likely so terribly inefficient im pretty sure youd lag the game every time you would have an encounter

Not sure how else one could go about doing it but the first thing that came up to mind just feels like a disaster waiting to happen lol

[remote compass]

As opposed to now where you already lag the game every encounter

[dawn carbon]

https://twitter.com/panfro_games/status/1596974471360892928?s=46&t=QQOyJc1LRf-RJst6mYgvPw

PanFro💯 (@PanFro_Games)

The OU Meta for Pokemon Scarlet Violet

Likes

4274

Retweets

710

Twitter · Nov 27, 2022, 9:09 PM

[sinful sapphire]

And another 2 pog

[balmy monolith]

Yes
Itd be worse

[balmy monolith]

Fun fact: HMs are in this game

[ornate token]

“Fun”

[sour pulsar]

wait

what

what the fuck

why

[eternal summit]

I presume you mean the Herba Mystica?

[balmy monolith]

(H)erba (M)ystica

[balmy monolith]

^ :v

[ornate token]

[uncut sleet]

Meanwhile, the real Uber nightmare, garganacl, gets to roam freely

[still fiber]

You joke but bulky garganacl or balance tinglu garganacl arcanine teams are hell to deal with

[uncut sleet]

I actually wasn’t joking

Garganacl single handedly checks a lot of annoying walls

And it gets helping hand

[plush frigate]

so something I dont get about the whole time machine

why wouldnt dialga step in

🤔

[fallow reef]

when did he ever ?

Celebi keeps sending shit through time and he never did anything about it.

I guess they just don't intervene unless it highly affects the space-time continuum

[plush frigate]

oh btw fun fact, the word cringe is canonical in pokemon now

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fio-X7LXoAMspoc?format=jpg&name=large

german version of SV Clavel asks you what "cringe" means

[sinful sapphire]

I dont have a problem, I can stop whenever I want to, I just dont want to stop

[plush frigate]

daylight method?

[finite plover]

Wait, that thing is Ghost Fairy??? I though it was Ghost dark

[gloomy hollow]

nope, it's ghost fairy

has extremely good sp atk and speed, with both stab shadow ball and stab moonblast

so have fun : ^)

[remote compass]

Honestly the biggest powercreep on an individual mon yet

And this gen had a lot of that

[oblique lodge]

Only move more spammable than shadow ball is moonblast

[uncut sleet]

It would actually be broken if it was ghost dark instead of ghost fairy

[rustic raft]

So

DLC thing leaked by khu

Fucking excuse me

[remote compass]

I think ghost dark would have been worse

[rustic raft]

What does he mean by this

[remote compass]

Fairy is a much better offensive type for coverage

[uncut sleet]

Yeah that’s the point, now your only weakness is bug as opposed to steel/ghost

[remote compass]

None of the ghost dark mons we've seen have ever been that relevant outside spiritomb

[gloomy hollow]

ghost fairy is probably better, but ghost dark is also valid

[uncut sleet]

Sableye?

[remote compass]

Ghost/Dark is weak to Fairy

[gloomy hollow]

would get stab dark pulse instead

[remote compass]

Bug is neutral

[uncut sleet]

How is bug neutral? Ghost doesn’t resist it

Dark is weak to it

[sour pulsar]

Ffs i thought we got over khu already

[gloomy hollow]

ghost does resist bug, yes

[ionic fjord]

Finally

||Mega Mence and Mega Mence’nt in the same game||

[remote compass]

Yeah, Ghost resists bug

[uncut sleet]

Holy shit it does

When did this happen

[sour pulsar]

Always

[remote compass]

Always yeah

[uncut sleet]

Have I just never used a bug type move vs a ghost type

[ionic fjord]

Ghosts resist bug how else would spiritomb’s only weakness be fairy

[sour pulsar]

It's ok, i found out last month ground was weak to ice

[remote compass]

Yeah did you forget about Gen5 wonder tomb?

That was a fun time

They updated the online because people were hacking in wonder guard spiritombs

Lead to a fucky battle spot for a few months

[uncut sleet]

How does ghost resisting bug even make sense though

[gloomy hollow]

bc they hate bug type, i guess

bug is notoriously bad

[rustic raft]

We are never getting rid of that creep

[plush frigate]

unique tera hats?

[remote compass]

Nah that'd require more effort

And it's frankly kinda pointless

[gloomy hollow]

introducing: gigastallization, specifically to give charizard a different form

[plush frigate]

I will note he said the dlc will also have a "PKHex" feature

[gloomy hollow]

(also pikachu, eevee, and meowth)

[remote compass]

Supposedly

But I can't see it

[plush frigate]

Fake Bottlecap plz?

that lowers your IVs

[raven sphinx]

The difference is every Pokémon can use a z move, dynamax or terrastilize

[remote compass]

No way they let you generate your own mons

[raven sphinx]

Not every Pokémon can mega

[gloomy hollow]

no, keep regular bottle caps, just give an npc who lets you trade them to set ivs whatever you want

[remote compass]

Watch it be a one time use

[plush frigate]

bottlecaps are already in, sold

[remote compass]

You can generate any one mon once

[sour pulsar]

Finally

Elec tera shedinja my beloved

[plush frigate]

but I would love a fake bottle cap that lowers stats for stuff like trick room strats

[remote compass]

This guy thinks we'll get Shedinja back

[plush frigate]

[gloomy hollow]

yeah that's the point, since the function of caps isn't to directly raise your stats, but to be given to an npc who does it for you

there's no need to add a new item for this functionality, just make an npc with the functionality and let people use regular caps for it

[brave igloo]

Gamefreak: "Bottlecaps for each IV for each stat, look at how many items we added to the game"

[sour pulsar]

And then we'll cut all of them in gen 10

[gloomy hollow]

that would be awful lol

[sour pulsar]

[brave igloo]

"We have as many bottlecap items in this this as we did Lillies in SM"

[remote compass]

One for each iv value

186 new items

[gloomy hollow]

0-31 range is 32, so it'd be 32x6

which should be 192?

[brave igloo]

well, we already have the base bottle caps

[gloomy hollow]

if we're going the truly awful route

i know we have the base caps but there's an implication that one for every stat may add on top of the base caps : ^)

[brave igloo]

Or, the other bad future

[gloomy hollow]

if you account for that redundancy and not do it, then it'd be 31x6

[remote compass]

Oh we're also adding 32 secret bottle caps

[brave igloo]

Bottle Caps that only increase or decrease values by 1

[remote compass]

These determine evasiveness

[fallow reef]

well mega is the only one that can't be used by any mon
the rest all have generic option

[silver tendon]

Is he implying they’re coming@back

Cause we have a reference to one in the game

So@its a@ huge slap@in the face that we don’t have megas rn

[fallow reef]

i think it's just hinting at terra+ (where some mons get special hats/froms)

they same way they did Dyna/G Max

[sour pulsar]

Is your keyboard ok? You keep spamming @s

[uncut sleet]

That’s a rude way to speak to somebody having a stroke

[gloomy hollow]

the stroke thing is a bit overboard, let's not

[fallow reef]

wtf..

just an @ ignister player clearly

[silver tendon]

that's just me fat fingering the @ button instead of space

my boomer fingers can't type like you kids do nowadays

[finite plover]

Does it now, hmm, guess it’s good that I’m more towards Scarlet rn, I think I will

[gloomy hollow]

if you want it native to your game, yes

but you can still get violet and either trade or go in someone else's scarlet through union circle

[finite plover]

Both I assume need the concept of ‘friend’ still?

Cause I don’t have many of those lmao

[gloomy hollow]

sure, but i'm sure you could ask someone in here

[finite plover]

Yeah that’s what I gonna do if I want anything I can’t get

[plush frigate]

oh the way to get fire or water tauros is dumb

they require sandwiches to be seen commonly

[finite plover]

Does basically everything in Paldea runs on Sandwich energy? Lmao

[plush frigate]

yes

[sour pulsar]

Not really, they just become more common if you do

[plush frigate]

I've seen zero of them without sandwiches

[sour pulsar]

Well

[uncut sleet]

They all look the same that’s why

[plush frigate]

they have their differences though, I look at the horns

[sour pulsar]

They did decide to make 3 family members maushold and 3 segment dundunsparce a 1% chance

[finite plover]

That latter one, what

[plush frigate]

also of course I got the version that makes water tauros not native to my game

so if I do a water mono run, I would have to go hop in a violet player's world to get one

[uncut sleet]

Wait I thought 4 segment was 1%

I have a 3 segment Lmao

[remote compass]

No they don't. I've seen fire tauroses in random groups

[uncut sleet]

I stopped bothering with tauros anyways they’re pokeball wasters

[raven sphinx]

Commonly is the operative word here

They can be found otherwise but they're not exactly common

[plush frigate]

edited so people dont keep quoting

https://tenor.com/view/well-actually-liam-scott-edwards-ace-trainer-liam-actually-in-fact-gif-18823311

[brave igloo]

Yeah because you don't say wrong stuff

[plush frigate]

tbf, I have yet to see one

[remote compass]

@rustic raft you can search by ability in boxes. This includes Delta stream, Parental Bond, and Desolate Land

[uncut sleet]

https://youtu.be/y9zO9LiFF2Y

[plush frigate]

got finished with evolving bramblin, rellor, and parmo

[gloomy hollow]

my next project after sprigatito was tinkatink, although going too hard on that one isn't really worth it

i think i got a 4iv and i'm satisifed

the overworld tera mons are pretty nice for low effort iv passing

since they seem to always have a set amount

[ebon path]

[sour pulsar]

question

can revival blessing be called via assist?

[gloomy hollow]

assist can't be used in gen 9, so who knows

[twin edge]

this strat is better on the dung beetle but I don't think its that good?

[sinful sapphire]

Busy night tn

[crystal iron]

Freeze thaw

[finite plover]

[sinful sapphire]

Great Tusk was stubborm, had to reset once and only got the 1. BB and Shocks tomorrow so I should have all the paradox shinies

[balmy monolith]

(I want to note that roaring moon really doesnt want to tera dragon, if its going tera its either dark, steel or a type of one of its other moves)

[rustic raft]

Yeah but funny meme

Tinkaton is just

Chaos

https://twitter.com/Sunsnak_Sn/status/1597288073792192513?t=B2jGS8MR-OPgepwI-qy7gQ&s=19

Sunsnak🐲 (@Sunsnak_Sn)

Hunt

Likes

14931

Retweets

2647

Twitter · Nov 28, 2022, 5:55 PM

[plush frigate]

the irony is tinkaton is not good against corviknight

[rustic raft]

In more comp stuff

https://twitter.com/VGCPastes/status/1597246276537847809?t=gbrK5yJ2lOzqkeoC_HUSqw&s=19 this sounds neat tho

VGC Pokepastes • SV (@VGCPastes)

📑 VGC Combos 📑

Our team member, kakunaka, who recently made Top Cut at 2022 Worlds, prepared some simple slides explaining unique Doubles strategies often seen on the ladder during these early days.

And we translated them into English together! 🤓 Please have a look!

Likes

2632

Retweets

295

Twitter · Nov 28, 2022, 3:09 PM

[balmy monolith]

wouldnt a 4x beat up be better than using population bomb for the ape combo?

[rustic raft]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I am not the pro player so

Also man, I need to steal a team so I can try SV OU.

[plush frigate]

I like how one of the strats listed is "Just use these 2 pokemon that are natural doubles partners as that's the entire point of their design"

[uncut sleet]

In doubles, moon going tera flying is pretty common

[balmy monolith]

Oh yeah flying is a common one

[uncut sleet]

Also that “vgc” list is cringe

Chien pao and dragonite is common enough

But they didn’t even list Arcanine + flutter mane

Which is probably the most annoying lead out there

[rustic raft]

https://twitter.com/WolfeyGlick/status/1597308834204512256?t=gd0_B5YvmQm6mU0Sqsogyg&s=19

Wolfey (@WolfeyGlick)

https://t.co/JQA1LL936V

Likes

17349

Retweets

1235

Twitter · Nov 28, 2022, 7:17 PM

[twin edge]

I'd say pin missile with something that has dice/link would be better

[balmy monolith]

i mean beat up deals neutral to him and normally 4x beat up is extremely weak

even considering technician

[brave igloo]

I think it comes down to "Do I really want to run Loaded Dice for this gimmick? Do I have other merit in running Loaded Dice?"

[balmy monolith]

do note that loaded dice forces 4-5 hits

[brave igloo]

Beat Up and Pin Missile both do pitiful damage.
Beat will always hit 4 times and Pin Missile will hit either 4 or 5 times, with a chance of missing entirely.

[balmy monolith]

which would be nice for cincinno since technician loaded dice > skill link life orb

but cincinno is sadly not here

[ornate token]

Ambipom?

[brave igloo]

not in gen 9 either

Your gen 9 technician pokes are:
Persian
Scizor
Breloom
Kricketune
Toxtiricty
and Maushold

[balmy monolith]

thats 6

also youre missing breloom

of those breloom and maushold would use loaded dice the best but much prefer a different item for various reasons

[ornate token]

What is Breloom’s main set rn

[balmy monolith]

breloom cause it cares more about mach punch than bullet seed
maushold cause it benefits more from wide lens making population bomb hit 10 times as consistently as possible and not caring about the other multi hit moves

[brave igloo]

of note Persian is faster than Maushold but literally cannot learn a multi-hit move that can deal damage to Ghost Ape

What's really funny about the pop bomb situation specifically is that the post calls out no way to make ghost ape get hit by pop bomb without tera

but that's not true

You can use the memetastic Ring Target

realistically I'd say to use Beat Up and have an otherwise useful held item on Maushold

Twitter thread calls out someone experimenting with Pin Missile Jolteon to go all in on that train

[balmy monolith]

TIL iron jugulis' heads are holograms

[ripe oxide]

https://twitter.com/KirbyCheatFurby/status/1597344955827367936

Anthony (@KirbyCheatFurby)

why is the legendary theme in pokemon scarlet and violet just tunak tunak tun

Likes

625

Twitter · Nov 28, 2022, 9:41 PM

https://twitter.com/UltimaShadowX/status/1597352296056492032

Ultima | #вʟм (@UltimaShadowX)

What the actual fuck.

Likes

15870

Retweets

3785

▶ Play video

Twitter · Nov 28, 2022, 10:10 PM

[rustic raft]

As an Indian this is now my favorite pokémon mashup since the Daft Punk Get Lucky Game Corner one from Siivagunner

[pearl hinge]

I also saw a anger point primeape and meowscarada lead which works similar to the Monke mouse lead

[rustic raft]

https://twitter.com/Diviously/status/1597097130975694850?t=Blmza38oO2-Jfe17hOiiPw&s=19

wendi ⭐ RIKA NATION (@Diviously)

[pokemon sv] am i the only one who got confused over rika's potential ace at first

Likes

42224

Retweets

5603

Twitter · Nov 28, 2022, 5:16 AM

[brave igloo]

https://pokepast.es/07869112b1d98bc8

list of usage in OU as of yesterday

Skeledirge still ahead of Quaquaval

[rustic raft]

Oh so, defiant Kingambit is more popular?

[brave igloo]

On pokelytics no data shown

[sour pulsar]

#clodsiresweep

[brave igloo]

Flutter Man was so popular that despite being banned a while ago, it still has over 10% usage by the statistics

[rustic raft]

Ooooh lmao

I wish I could teambuild because some of the mons are spicy

Like Ceruledge

Iirc ceruledge uses weak armor right

For that sweep

[brave igloo]

Ye Swords Dance into Weak Armor

[sour pulsar]

Btw's the lokix set?

First impression spam?

[brave igloo]

on 50%+ of movesets

[rustic raft]

And sucker punch

Tinted lense means he can 2hko a lot

[brave igloo]

First Impression
U-Turn
Sucker Punch
Leech Life
Coverage Moves
Swords Dance very little used

[sour pulsar]

I see

Btw

What's the set on clod?

Usually, that is

[brave igloo]

Before all the bans it was definitely special wall

EQ, Toxic, Recover, Hazards

Yawn was also an option iirc

[plush frigate]

I liked how the flying elite four member used a staraptor, that was a cute touch

[brave igloo]

Iron Valiant having only a single move above 20% usage at 22% is terrifying

Chien Pao the same way

Grimmsnarl being more dedicated to Dual Screen than players using Cyclizar for Shed Tail lol

One of the most popular VGC Trick Room setter is Farigiraf

Called it. Did mention but didn't think highly of the most popular one, Armorouge

Indeedee not being used for Trick Room setting at all
Didn't call it

[rustic raft]

https://pokepast.es/21310b1574641615 same person's uu predictions

Fucking pex in UU

[brave igloo]

Pelipper in UU still feels cursed

[sour pulsar]

Half of that list feels cursed

[rustic raft]

The power creep is real

Insert FSG

Unfortunately with this gens UU resembling last gen OU (insert mon) dropped to RU"

[ionic fjord]

gen 9 is fucked

the thing is tho

most of the SV mons are like

[brave igloo]

Question: Do we think it is more or less crept than gen 5?

[ionic fjord]

prob not gonna be in future games for a whiiiile

[brave igloo]

I'd easily put it past being more crept than any gen besides gen 5 easily

[rustic raft]

This feels like more cracked than 5

[ionic fjord]

the paradoxes are fucked but they're prob staying in SV

[rustic raft]

9 is the new 5

[ionic fjord]

nat dex can have fun tho lol

[sour pulsar]

More

[brave igloo]

my only doubt about it being more crept is the dex cuts playing factor into this

But it certainly feels more crept

[ionic fjord]

once we get home we'll see what scald'nt lando-t does

[remote compass]

Gen 9 powercreep is batshit

[sour pulsar]

Altho

An UU elec terrain team looks fun ngl

[uncut sleet]

It’s always interesting seeing the differences between singles and doubles. Really shows how vastly different the two formats are

[oblique lodge]

Idt it's that powercrept

Pex was always gonna be ass with all those nerfs

Meta lucky we don't have Lando heatran ferro zapdos kart etc etc smh

[uncut sleet]

Pex being ass is a change everybody can get behind too

[swift pumice]

pex isnt even bad rn though

powercreep is real but pex is still able to wall like crazy and it gets black sludge toxic and regenerator

[uncut sleet]

Why hasn’t garganacl caught on in singles?

[swift pumice]

it has

spatk threats are real and ppl are in love with bulky waters more tho

dondozo is just more popular

oh and great tusk and ting-lu are also incredibly popular for different reasons

and both can run very bulky sets

so its harder to justify a pure rock with ghost resists that cant be status moved cus

most of the time it creates a predictable switch in

[brave igloo]

Yeah for physical bulk tusk’s benefits are better offensive typing and more Utility

Gargan is a wall but pretty much is just a wall, which like mist said is being competed with Donny

[uncut sleet]

Even then, garganacl can run equally bulky and outpace almost every mon with salt cure/recover. Throw in the fact that garganacl’s moveset is high key the best moveset a rock Pokémon outside of tyranitar has ever gotten

[oblique lodge]

Garg is def used and a threat

Esp with tera

Without Tera then it's pretty tough

Cuz rock is just such bad typing

[swift pumice]

yea all limited by the fact that its a rock type

ting-lu has electric immunity and ghost resistance too

and can more solidly run an assault vest set

dondozo is just 3 different and viable move sets

[uncut sleet]

Ting Lu also just has a terrible moveset, you want to talk about just being a wall

That’s ting lu

Doesn’t even get knock off to justify the common fairy weakness

[brave igloo]

I mean Ting Lu sets rn are mostly centered around phasing (Whirlwind) and combining passive damage (hazards) with active damage (EQ and Ruination)

Garganacl is usually dedicating half its moveset to staying alive with its only common offensive move being Body Press, Salt Cure being way more passive

Ting Lu is putting its use into its moveset and ability to help wall without aiming to just wall. Garganacl puts almost everything about it into its defense stat

I think Dondozo is a way more relatable comparison to Garganacl than Ting Lu

[twin edge]

i'd say a lot of the usage stats are coming from new toy mode

[bleak gazelle]

ting lu was my goat week 1

but its kinda mid

just doesnt pressure stuff enough outside of hazards

garganacl is annoying as fuck

[silver tendon]

probs the biggest jump in power ever

I didn't play XY->SWSH though so idk all those formats

I'm still baffled shit like flutter mane got through

[brave igloo]

Most of what rose to power in gens 6-8 that were new were standouts more than a complete standard change

Gen 5 and 9 both feel like complete standard changes, like DUEA pack replacing previous meta

But, the hard part to factor in is how much is missing from Gen 9’s roster of previous pokes

Even when SwSh cut the roster, the meta wasn’t that dominated by new pokes, and hell that most took til the dlc to feel a fuller effect of that

So much of gen 9 OU singles rn is straight up new Pokémon and I don’t think it’s that overstated with the current pool of Pokémon we have, but we don’t have a lotta the bs from previous gens yet, not to mention the great scald nerf

[remote compass]

I mean look at the bans in natdex ou too

Mane, Fin, Iron Bundle, etc already died there too

[brave igloo]

Oh wait actually?

Dayum

[remote compass]

Yeah, it's definitely at least partially the new mons

[silver tendon]

is tera on the chopping block?

[uncut sleet]

Kinda feel as if you should give a meta at least a month to develop tbh, mane being gone is perfectly understandable as that’s just going to lead to a meta of mane + Pokémon that don’t auto lose to mane in singles

But palafin could have and should have gotten more time

[remote compass]

Tera is up for debate in both regular and natdex, yeah

[silver tendon]

the mechanic is just disgusting imo

[remote compass]

Nah palafin deserved it's fate in singles lmao

Mon just outright invalidates playing any other water type that wasn't bundle

[silver tendon]

also I agree on shit like iron bundle maybe could have lived longer

[brave igloo]

Tera is problematic but nowhere near as stupid as Dynamax

[silver tendon]

but mane, palafin, and last rites all needed to go

[remote compass]

I think bundle could have gotten a bit more time, yeah

Especially without Palafin around

But I'm fine with him dying

[brave igloo]

I expect Tera Team Preview to happen at the least

[remote compass]

I can see it

[brave igloo]

I highly doubt Tera goes untouched

[remote compass]

Tera probably needs to go at the end of the day

But I think preview is worth trying first

[bleak gazelle]

tera is so fucking funny

i got fucked up by tera ice tera blast volc

[remote compass]

I wish they'd stop trying new gimmicks tbh, and just move back to mega

[bleak gazelle]

gimmicks are fun, its just dynamax that was like

unreal

how can u double hp and give mons contrary draco meteors

idk what the plan is for tera tho

they were discussing restrictions

[remote compass]

Tera is inherently bad for a competitive standpoint because it opens too much unpredictability

[bleak gazelle]

too much is subjective

[brave igloo]

But, that unpredictability is much harder to steamroll with than DMax

[remote compass]

Yeah Dmax was worse

But I think Tera needed to at least have a team preview or something

[bleak gazelle]

hidden power is a weak move so i'm not going to act like it's anything close to what dynamax/tera is, but that's a level of unpredictability that most people are fine with

if tera meets that threshold in the minds of the people that's fine but it's not like unpredictability hasn't existed in singles in the past

and it's been incredibly punishing

[brave igloo]

Tera the best you can steamroll someone with still requires you to first checkmate an opponent

(Looks at Flutter Mane) ok usually requires checkmate

Dynamax you could literally Goku your way through a game if you timed it right

[bleak gazelle]

dynamax had negative skill

max skillstream

[brave igloo]

I wouldn’t say negative skill but it was way too rewarding

[bleak gazelle]

it's too much in favor of the offensive user

tera's uses defensively are legitimately good

[brave igloo]

Lemme find what comparison I made before

"Imagine two fighters getting into a ring to box and you have, for one time in a match, the ability to readjust your stance instantly, even mid-punch. This is for Tera."

"For Dynamax, imagine if you were boxing and at any point for 30 seconds you could multiply your weight class and possibly keep some of it after that time"

[silver tendon]

there's defense this format?

most shit I've watched has been full max ape all out attack

gotten to the point where ditto is being played again

[bleak gazelle]

yeah

there are good defensive mons

[remote compass]

There's really not much defense tho

[bleak gazelle]

what would you describe as not much

[remote compass]

There's a few good defensive mons seeing play, but the format is so hyper offensive

[bleak gazelle]

hyper offense is popular but i dont think archetypes like stall are unviable

[brave igloo]

I mean preban, it was extremely offensive with defense mostly just being reserved for walling and forcing sweepers to swap out. There were few of even hazard setters.

[bleak gazelle]

pif got rank 1 like 3 days ago

with stall

[brave igloo]

Stall isn't unviable, but it required a full-out stall team designed specifically to deal with sweepers

[bleak gazelle]

...that is generally what stall is

[brave igloo]

There wasn't much middle ground preban

[bleak gazelle]

if it's a middle ground that's not stall

that's balance

[brave igloo]

Correct

You had to be one extreme or the other and offense was a lot more popular

[bleak gazelle]

i mean sure

that's true

but that's true in like every early gen

[brave igloo]

No duh it's true

[bleak gazelle]

i dont think that's an argument against tera

[brave igloo]

that is generally what no balance is

Tera for defense was you committed a checkmate after you got rid of a threatening sweeper.

Most of what I saw this was just fairy Avalugg

[bleak gazelle]

no there are other uses

tera water garganacl

slowking

tera fairy skeledirge

and when i mean defensively i dont mean necessarily "a defensive mon", but using it to prevent some sweeper/breaker from getting a huge advantage

[still fiber]

Ofc spatula would be a diehard stall player

[uncut sleet]

Such as if we get what’s his name from Gen 7 that’s dragon fighting, you would tera him so any touch of a fairy move doesn’t break him and he all of a sudden becomes much more viable

[bleak gazelle]

im not

stall takes too much skill

i just click uturn

[uncut sleet]

Noob, try clicking volt switch

[bleak gazelle]

and volt

liek a monkey

[still fiber]

Kommoo

[bleak gazelle]

theres a dragon fighting mon?

[still fiber]

Kommoo

[brave igloo]

Kommo'O

Also we now have Koraidon

[bleak gazelle]

oh duh

LMAO

clicking z clang on kommo o in gen 7 was the best feeling ever

(don't go to clef)

[oblique lodge]

Just Tera poison on clef

Easy

[bleak gazelle]

Cant u do that in natdex

Doesnt natdex have like 20 different mechanics

[uncut sleet]

Nat dex ain’t real

[crystal iron]

Why is Fairy Dirge good

Just a wall?

[oblique lodge]

It's like unaware clefable on crack

In a meta without toxic

Fairy is just simply one of the best defensive typings

[swift pumice]

yea it becomes clef

part 2 basically

it wastes tera on a defensive mon but it can potentially sweep with torch song

and shadow ball

[still fiber]

I'm liking defensive teras much more

Like grass garganacl or steel moon

[swift pumice]

i think tera as a whole is non-competitive

but its not as bad as dynamax

[still fiber]

I love it

It's amazing for VGC

Idk or care about singles tho

Make it's broken there like palafin which is just hella mid in doubles

[uncut sleet]

Idet calling it non competitive in singles is accurate. As with all things their will eventually be an optimal tera for a certain mon

[oblique lodge]

Is it good in vgc

I think at it's root the mechanic is uncompetitive

[still fiber]

It's not overwhelming rn

[oblique lodge]

The very "50/50s" forced every turn is too rng

And heavily favors the one threathening the Tera for no actual cost

[uncut sleet]

It’s fine? I think it’s too early to judge tera as a mechanic tbh as I don’t think people are using it optimally

[still fiber]

^

[oblique lodge]

Like sure as meta progress

X Mon will only ever use fire and grass

But knowing that isn't the root of the problem imo

That's like 3 different sets with different cplay that all threathens to put you very ahead (at the very least you got one free kill from this exchange)

And you don't know when exactly in a battle that button gets pressed

People focusing too much on knowing what the types are

That's like super w.e

[uncut sleet]

That’s the reason I said it’s not being used optimally yet

[still fiber]

How is that any different than fucking up in front of a setup mon with protect and getting swept?

[uncut sleet]

Right now people are pre planning who their tera targets are, rather than making all their Pokémon viable tera targets in any given game

[still fiber]

You will always have these 50/50s

[oblique lodge]

This is more and more layers of 50/50s

You can't reasonably account for everything

If it's a wrong play to mach punch a boosted roaring moon

What more do you want from me

Damn you're right I shouldve loaded double unaware on every team

And 4 other fat mons

[uncut sleet]

There’s also the factor of knowing when to tera. Do you tera early to get an early advantage? Do you hold till the last possible second to get a turnaround?

Also there’s downsides to tera-big unoptimally

If it’s not a fairy flutter mane, all of a sudden that’s less of a threat than it would otherwise be

[oblique lodge]

So what

You got immediate upside the turn or subsequent turn you terad

And that so easily snowballs

Yeah maybe the guy you tera

Didn't 6-0 from that very moment on

[still fiber]

4-0

[oblique lodge]

(I'm talking primarily singles here)

[still fiber]

And if you fuck up a tera you can get very far behind

[oblique lodge]

Ofc if you use your instant get ahead button

Worse than your opponent does

You will lose

That applies to literally any mechanic no matter how broken

Dynamax except you get x10 the HP not double

[still fiber]

Not like that

[oblique lodge]

You lose if you used it worse

How is that an argument

[still fiber]

In some matches I even see people choosing to not tera

[oblique lodge]

At no cost to themselves

[still fiber]

You can also predict the opponents tera based on what they are paired with

[oblique lodge]

Idc if you can predict what they are

You can't predict when they do it

[still fiber]

And as the game goes forward you can play around the tera that would beat you in that position not the one that wouldn't

[oblique lodge]

Exacerbated X the amount of mons they have

And then X the different other options they have

I'm not arguing there isn't ways around its just way too swingy and advantageous to the one using it

There's ways around everything

And at a certain point

There's just too much to play around in the builder

[still fiber]

I'm really not seeing it as too swingy rn

[oblique lodge]

(again I'm speaking primarily from a 6v6 perspective)

[still fiber]

Maybe as the cores get optimized

[oblique lodge]

Ik in doubles EVERYTHING is inherently more handleable

Just by the nature of it

I played my fair share of vgc in g8

[still fiber]

But rn in VGC at least I'm not seeing tera as the defining factor in most games

[uncut sleet]

I mean what you’re arguing is comp Pokémon in a nutshell though. Each Pokémon can have x amount of different combinations between abilities/move sets etc. why don’t we complain about the competitive integrity in that?

Because there’s optimal builds and suboptimal builds. And if you run that suboptimal build you risk a higher chance of losing a match.

[oblique lodge]

Ik atleast for singles opinions will turn very sour

Once the tours start

And people start losing actually important bo3s or bo1s to it

[still fiber]

I could see that being the case in singles

[oblique lodge]

Once real games are on the line people will care more

Rn it's just "ah but it's so new we wanna play with the new mechanic"

[ionic fjord]

Me when I know my opponent has Tera water Anniahlape (I still lose)

[oblique lodge]

But you know what it is?????

You're telling me you didn't instantly win based off of that information?

[oblique lodge]

There is no cost to threathening a Tera, and anyways it's all in degrees

And everything stacks on itself

My opponent bluffing choice band or choice scarf is quite different from on any turn they can completely flip the type chart

Like just in degrees

Fine you can theoretically argue everything comes down to "50/50s" but that's pretty bad faith tbh

In impact to a game and in what the defending user has to counterplay it is very large

Compared to moveset mixups

[ionic fjord]

Even if you know the Tera types commonly used that won’t save you from the fact that you’re still probably gonna die to the adaptability boosted stab from all the mons with morbillion atk this gen

[still fiber]

Idk

Rn in VGC the lead arcanine having helping hand or not has more impact in most games than tera

But I will wait until people come up with better ways to use it

[ionic fjord]

I mean yeah

all the mechanics are designed around vgc

/selling toys

[oblique lodge]

Idk why not just make more megas

Free merch right there

[still fiber]

More paradoxes

[oblique lodge]

How do you sell a crystal hat

Or that yeah

[ionic fjord]

That’s what weirds me out about Tera

[still fiber]

I wish we had gotten like 5x more paradoxes over tera

[ionic fjord]

There’s no like

forms or anything

[oblique lodge]

After you sold your crystal hat Eevees what do you do afterwards

[ionic fjord]

nor easily marketable collectible wristbands or crystals

[still fiber]

Anything with a pokemon logo sells dw

[ionic fjord]

Tera just exists

[still fiber]

The franchise got to a point where they don't have to try anymore

[oblique lodge]

Z was also confusing

0 marketability in that

Hardly even a generational mechanic imo

[still fiber]

A turd with a tera hat would give them millions in profit

Just slap the logo on it

But yes

[ionic fjord]

Z moves looked cool

[still fiber]

It's the ugliest mechanic we have ever gotten by far

Teras are so fucking ugly

[ionic fjord]

Tera just adds a weird hat and a small animation to the start of your Tera type moves

[still fiber]

It would have looked much better without the hat

Just crystalize the mon and put a small symbol representing the type on it Idk

[ionic fjord]

Idm some of the hats

the dragon one looks nice

but then there’s shit like the grass and flying ones

[uncut sleet]

The steel one looks good on some mon

And cringe on others

[remote compass]

The fighting hat is ugly

[ionic fjord]

I think part of it is also

[remote compass]

It's also a timesaving thing tho

[ionic fjord]

you only actually learn anything about Tera in the post game

and even then they kinda just

gloss over it

[remote compass]

They don't have to make new forms or even new models