For anything relating to the Pokemon TCG
#Pokemon TCG
versed jackal
final musk
@rich pine @digital crow Moving here
digital crow
rich pine
Poggies
final musk
To get a topic started, this was the list I left off with Hisuian Arcanine:
It feels good to play generally speaking.
As far as "Would I bring it to anything bigger than a locals"... definitely not, unless I were fully expecting there to be little to no Palkia Inteleon and Lost Box.
Palkia Kyurem doesn't feel impossible but is still an uphill battle
Palkia Inteleon cross switching you multiple times makes setting up for future turns a pain in the ass since Manaphy getting targeted over and over is a huge problem
Lost Box matchup tends to fall apart due to Sableye without some luck
On the flipside, it has felt very good against:
Mew
Regis
AR Charizard, should that even have much of a place in the coming months
Most Arceus variants that aren't a Cheren's care deck
Shadow Rider, which people are slowly trying to trend again as part of an Arceus variant.
One thing that really helps with Arceus and Zoroark VStar matchups is that a lot are straight up not even bothering to play Dunsparce, at least online / online tournaments.
Which turns the matchup from "Even" to "I have a few free turns"
Still, would not bring it to a tournament expecting it to win
rich pine
My initial testing with lost box was that it’s super difficult to actually win vs things like arceus
It’s not too bad though, and I usually lose to a random misplay or prizing a key card or starting with a V or cram
final musk
Lost Box and Giratina are definitely decision-driven yeah
The Arcanine deck I've been trying to tune is a lot more streamlined for sure
The best thing I can do to improve Arcanine's poor matchups would literally be moving from Arcanine to a Zoroark Box deck
Besides switching decks entirely, Flapple or Electrode help with Palkia, and Steel Wormadam with Kyurem, but all need energy to even attack.
And there's like nothing I can reasonably do to improve lost box matchup since I already have Slowbro as a contingency and Sableye can play around it
rich pine
Yeah, lost box was the worst deck to come back to
You need to have a good grasp of the game to actually win and I’m just relearning 
final musk
Zoroark Box would be more vulnerable and inconsistent a deck, but could play cards to better combat Palkia (Electrode or Flapple) and Kyurem (Steel Wormadam), while still including cards to combat Mew and Flying Pika, (Mightyena), Arceus/Zoroark VStar (Fighting Wormadam and/or H-Arcanine), single prize decks outside of Lost Box (Slowbro).
But that also doesn't have a good answer to Sableye.
Like the best answer to repeating Sableyes is Lost City and that is detrimental to Arcanine and situationally detrimental to Zoroark-box.
It also doesn't even fully solve the problem, just makes it exploitable if the opponent has only 1 sableye left in circulation
rich pine
There’s the 2 sableye and then radiant greninja to take care of
final musk
But, right now most lists are running Ordinary Rod
Some upwards of 3
rich pine
Escape rope doesn’t work here but boss and double switch does
final musk
KOing Sableye alone doesn't do it
rich pine
Yes, they run 3-4 rod but it’s not always guaranteed they’ll get back sableye and if they do, most games are over already
final musk
Scoop up net has been helping at least toning down the chances Sableye can beat me in prize race by getting rid of hits from Cramorant, but it isn't the most reliable thing, especially when Galarian Zigzagoon shows up and fixes some of those off numbers.
Still, much more prefer Scoop up Net and Switch to Air Balloon
Zoroark Box has a weird thing where you can just sometimes use Zoroark itself to attack for 70 via Twin Energy, like attacking a Comfey, then tank a hit from Cramorant, then switch over to a box option thereby getting rid of the damage.
Much less reasonable to do in Arcanine
digital crow
finally gets the 4 tickets to enter the tournament
No people in the queue so actually entering takes forever
gilded heart
I feel like getting tickets isn't too difficult if you just grind the versus ladder 🤔 Maybe I'm not remembering well since I sped up my grind with money 
gilded heart
lol
rich pine
Do you want info from someone who did grind? 
Even though it’s years old info
Moral of the story is get a pack, run the market, make a standard deck, win or lose fast
Don’t play theme deck ladder because it’s so slow
gilded heart
That makes a lot of sense
rich pine
Huh maybe I should make a theme deck cube
Theme deck ladder is super slow and super rng dependent
Sometimes you can win easy but even those games take long
gilded heart
Yeah that was more or less my theme deck tournament experience too
I'm also a terribly slow player
So I literally just timed out in the second round
gilded heart
The button is green right? I think you can leave if so
I got my packs after I left in the second or third round
Second round I think it was
final musk
You get it if you leave. You will not get it until the end of the tournament
gilded heart
Yeah
gilded heart
I've been breaking my brain trying to think of a way for my almost all Basic 'mon deck to beat stuff that plays Flying Pikachu and/or abuses cards like Cheryl. It does decently against most stuff tbh, I usually only lose by a hair, or due to misplays or whatever. I have a (somewhat inconsistent sometimes) 120 attacker for LZB, a consistent 90 attacker for Clefairy and Lunatone, and then for assorted Vs I have Galarian Moltres.
Does it make sense to run a 2-2 Mightyena line for VMAX Pokemon? I really need to be able to 2-shot them. Then again, I lose sometimes just because my opponent switches out of their 'mon and I don't see one of my 4 Boss's Orders, so maybe this won't even work
I should probably post my current list
Something like this, I was messing with it still
I know I run a very slim Pokemon count, I was on 2-3 Klara before to avoid running out
gilded heart
Oh this list has only 2 Boss rn
digital crow
irida maybe?
gilded heart
Not sure what the best way to trade up is either tbh
rich pine
I’d probably try to trade radiants
Or maybe comfeys
Since they’re popular and people will trade 2 packs for 1
And maybe sableye since no one is selling each for less than 4 packs so if you can get them for actual value (1-2 packs), then it’s worth
digital crow
Gotcha
gilded heart
That works too
rich pine
Or do what I did
Buy codes from an lgs for 25 cents using random credit I had lying around
Open giratina v max
Sell it
final musk
Got 15 packs, put in requests if ya want
digital crow
Got 15 packs, put in requests if ya want
Requests?
final musk
if y'all need stuff for standard decks not named Arceus, Palkia, Giratina
digital crow
ah
rich pine
For that you can make lost box
gilded heart
Btw Choccy, did you ever get a GLC deck up and running?
I think you said you were getting into that right?
Am also curious what type you're running in GLC, Socks :p
I've got two Darkness builds set up so far, one being quite a bit better than the other
digital crow
Btw Choccy, did you ever get a GLC deck up and running?
My dude i don't even have an ultra ball in my collection yet
gilded heart
Oh
This whole time I thought you were a returning player that had stuff, but were just in the process of updating/upgrading to modern lists
digital crow
So i'm starting from scratch again
digital crow
I miss my fully blinged out lost march list, but not much of value was lost really
digital crow
Isn't there a process to retrieve that stuff?
Eh, too burocratic, besides, starting anew is kinda fun
gilded heart
Fair, I also have like, 3 Warframe accounts in varying states of progression, so I get that
digital crow
Hmm
Radiant venu managed to get me a second LOR pack, but it's not popular enough to get much else from here i think
Maybe i should start trading radiant zards when i get about 5 packs
gilded heart
Could be a thing. LOR Sableye is also an option, like socks mentioned
digital crow
True
I'll probably wait until my current trades expire then start trading away sableye and comfeys
gilded heart
Sounds like a plan
Hmmm
Might convert my Dark Turbo list into a Hisuian Samurott V list tbh
Basically just swapping out the attackers for a 4-3 line
digital crow
Sounds neat
rich pine
Am also curious what type you're running in GLC, Socks :p
Water. Obviously
digital crow
I'll probably start building lost box and go from there
gilded heart
I've been trying to improve my winrate with Dark Turbo, but I can't get above 60% lol
Still not sure if that's good or bad though tbh
And nice!
Water is busted
I probably should've guessed that, yeah
We could like, do test matches for Standard and GLC in this thread, if anyone's interested in that
I kinda wanna try doing tournaments, but I have no idea how I'd fare against better players
rich pine
I mostly play glc in person so it might take me some time to remake the deck online
gilded heart
Ah fair
gilded heart
Pog
gilded heart
Enjoying this deck so far, it feels pretty solid. No Marnie has felt fine, I was on 2 before, but I always discarded them for something else because I had better options for what my hand was like. It is annoying when my opponent uses Marnie on me and I can't do it back though :p
The Hoopa solve the single prize match up for the most part, with the exception of maybe LZB, but I have 4 Boss to help with that and can Switch between Samurott and Hoopa to soak up damage without them taking prizes. I do have to play very carefully though, just lost a game to Clefairy because I didn't Klara back a Zigzagoon + Hoopa instead of 2 Hoopa, when that Zigzagoon ping would've let me KO their Wyrdeer V later with the help of a Choice Belt (with 2 Prizes left)
gilded heart
@digital crow I just realised I have a decent amount of extra full playsets and otherwise extra copies of meta-ish Trainer cards, would you like any?
digital crow
Sure
digital crow
Gotcha, mind waiting a bit?
gilded heart
That's fine
digital crow
Currently cooking dinner
gilded heart
I'll be awake for another couple of hours
digital crow
@gilded heart request accepted
gilded heart
Setting up the trade
What's a random Pokemon card you have that you don't need?
That is tradeable
Or any other card
gilded heart
Gotcha
Ah darn, forgot you have to mark the Kukui as For Trade first
The only one of your items I can see rn is the Radiant Venusaur
gilded heart
Give me another minute, I'll have to redo the trade I was setting up :p
digital crow
Take your time
digital crow
Thx dude
gilded heart
No problem
Now you just need some 'mons and you can probably head into Standard ladder
digital crow
gilded heart
Oh actually I'm gonna make a trade for another Kukui
I forgot I have 3 full art Professor's Research and 2 of another art in addition to the playset I've been using
Oh did you only have the one Kukui?
Can you make like, one of the coin flip Stadium (something wood) For Trade @digital crow ?
Or something else that you don't necessarily need right now
digital crow
@gilded heart marked up a SM paras for trade
digital crow
ty kid
gilded heart
Np :p
rich pine
Kind of want to make a cube of rules box Pokémon, maybe some good utility 1 Prizers, and have the game have no prize cards but rather you try to donk your opponent
Hate prize cards in a singleton format but especially in cube
gilded heart
I have no idea how cubes work tbh
versed jackal
ngl
the new stage 1 goodra seems fucking insane for zacian
plus zacian is lowkey sleeper af rn
with kyurem vmax becoming popular
digital crow
stage 1 goodra?
gilded heart
It does look nice in most Metal decks 🤔 Also I assume you mean Stage 2 :p
It's a decent bit of investment to get the protection going
gilded heart
Pog
gilded heart
Got an IRL friend back into PTCG so we can play when he flies over for a couple of days, soonish 
final musk
A list netdecked off play.limitless as a starting point. Vikavolt Stun
Definitely need to practice and understand the deck some more, but the general jist of Vikavolt is known.
Zapdos / Zigzagoon for correcting damage, albeit I am cautious about G-Zigzagoon.
Drapion V for Mew
Drapion VMax since it can lock retreat and doesn't take up a stadium spot like Galarian Mine does
Dragonite V as a heavier swing than Vikavolt for VMaxes
Melony since it is the most reliable way for setting up 2 energy quick.
It was cheap enough for me to build (was short like 5 packs for it from what I already had).
First thing I’d need to do is understand how important Zigzagoon is cuz that’s a deep investment.
gilded heart
Definitely need to practice and understand the deck some more, but the general j...
What makes you cautious about Zigzagoon?
The lack of Manaphy?
final musk
The fact that it is the main reason you also dedicate that much switching to scoop up net
gilded heart
You can also scoop Greninja tbf
final musk
Yes
I know
But playing 4 scoop up net is mostly for zig. Without zig you probably wouldn’t go over 2 in favor of switch cards that work better with your vs
final musk
The main reason for playing zig is that Vick’s damage for stun is ass
gilded heart
2 Thorton so you can play 2 Crobat and not have to worry about getting Boss'd 🤔
Hm that much is true
final musk
It seems like a cuthroat do-or-die deck/build to gun it for turn 1 stun but then has to mix in stuff like Zig and Zapdos because otherwise the opponent gets enough time to find outs
But you can’t dedicate to choice belt because
- that’s not enough alone for dealing with Vs
- It doesn’t contribute to beating Lost Box
gilded heart
Yeah it's an interesting side effect of the new meta
With single prize decks making a comeback
final musk
So it’s stuck playing this heap of cards on both fronts
Muscle belt works for dealing with lost box but you take away important damage numbers for Vikavolt and Dragonite for hitting big boys
Thinking it through, it just sounds like you are stuck playing zig
gilded heart
You mean Vitality Band? That's an interesting card that I haven't considered tbh
final musk
Yeah vitality band mb
gilded heart
I kinda want to try that in my Hoopa Turbo build. That would let me kill Cramorant with Zig pings
final musk
The 10 damage makes Vikavolt do better against hitting 70-80 vs lost box, but choice belt allows Vikavolt to hit 220 and Dragonite to hit 280
gilded heart
True
I can definitely feel the split in that deck, trying to build for both single prize and multi-prize decks
final musk
And the thing is it can build to combat both, just clunkily
It’s not like me going through the steps of building H Arcanine and coming to acceptance that it is too slow against lost box to compete
gilded heart
I kinda feel like I would try building mainly for single prize match ups with Vitality Band and then run a harder hitting 2 stage V line-up in place of Dragonite 🤔
final musk
Like… Palkia Vikavolt?
That’s another problem, Dragonite is already hitting really high for vstar standards
final musk
Kyurem absolutely would require rebuilding the whole deck
gilded heart
True I suppose
final musk
And the problem with just teching Vikavolt in a deck that doesn’t turbo Vikavolt id that’s the whole thing about Vik
Getting item lock early
A lot of water decks, and even some arceus and lost box decks, are playing Empoleon V for this slowdown role
gilded heart
Wait this build isn't even on Dragonite VStar 🤔
final musk
Draconic Star prevents use of Drapion for lockdown
Dragonite V also hits 250 for 1 less energy
gilded heart
Oh I was looking at the wrong Dragonite V
Woops
Hm yeah I'm out of ideas
I'd be curious to hear how you do with the deck
Or what it ends up looking like
Well okay
I had one idea, but it's bad
Basically just stripping out the Water-based support and trying out different types that can give you the same, or similar support, while allowing for a higher damage output, but like, I don't think that exists :p I was looking at Grass, because of Gardenia, but I'm not sure if there are any good options in there
final musk
The problem with a lot of types towards this is any type not Water or Grass can only do this with Thorton or energy switch
Grass’s problems are drawing less than Water support and not pairing well with another attacker of its own.
gilded heart
Yeah
final musk
Well it's funny when it works ig
Knockout path this game:
Opponent opens only Empoleon V in active, puts Palkia V, Kyurem, and Oranguru in bench via Quick Ball and VIP Pass
I haul ass to turn 1 stun and do 100 to Empo
They move to Palkia, spend their star power and put Radiant Ninja on bench, then do 160 to a Vikavolt
I boss Oranguru to buy time, do 60 to Guru and keep stun
They boss a zapdos
I Net zapdos and do 50 to Guru leaving it at 10 HP
They pass since they can't move Guru
Goon ping to knock out Guru, they put up Palkia, I 1 shot Palkia breaking lock
They finally get to play and already had up Kyurem with an irrelevant number of energy. They, for whatever reason, move Empoleon to active and swing with it instead
I move up second Vikavolt, dig for Choice Belt / Scoop Up Net, and knock out Empoleon (pulled Choice Belt), started setting up third Vikavolt
They move up Kyurem, needlessly played a Training Court to get a 5th energy on Kyurem, and 1 shot Vikavolt
I profit off their training court to get a second energy on third Vikavolt, dug to get enough Zapdos on my bench that I could boss Radiant Greninja and take last prize.
A lot of games that go for Vikavolt play stun movement like this, but it's weird to see Goon, Choice Belt, and Zapdos all needed in the same game for modifying damage.
If they put up Kyurem instead of Empoleon, I probably would've adjusted somewhat to try and get Drapion VStar lock going, but I know I drew no cards or ways to get to Drapion VStar later that game.
I think 1 shotting Palkia to break lock was the right move considering they already had a Kyurem and Palkia with energy needed in play and all I could boss them was for Radiant Ninja and Empoleon.
Maybe I could've went for the Empoleon instead idk
gilded heart
Tricky Gym was playing Vikavolt on stream today and posted a video of it 🤔 He also took a Limitless list, but just played that straight. He wasn't on Dragonite 🤔
Not sure how he did with it, I haven't watched the video yet
Oh the video was up yesterday nvm
final musk
Went from a 4 game lose streak to a 5 game win streak
Vikavolt is weird
Losses were:
Vs Lost Box and not setting up Stun lock fast enough
Vs KyuremPalkia and not setting up Stun lock fast enough
Vs whatever and opening only Drapion V
Vs Arceus and the opponent hard drawing Arceus playfield
Wins were:
Someone quitting immediately upon opening hand
Palkia Kyurem in that game above
Urshifu getting stun locked before he could put any Urshifu into play
Mew getting btfo by Drapion V like every other day
A really really clutch game against Ice Rider Inteleon that involved decking myself out, playing Ordinary Rod to add energy and pokemon back in, and playing Marnie to add it all to my hand in effort to set up a win via Vikavolt + Dragonite since goon was prized and I couldn't just swing with Dragonite.
final musk
Late Night 60 hitting the funni button
Arceus Goodra's trending
Alex Schemanske's in the tournament tearing people apart with Lost Box Charizard
gilded heart
Interesting 🤔
final musk
There's a Lost box deck at the top running 1-of fighting energy to counter Arceus
gilded heart
Don't you still need a Fighting 'mon to do fighting damage?
gilded heart
Ah
final musk
with 1 Fighting Energy in the deck
final musk
I think the funny thing is that some people might hype up this guy climbing up with Urshifu despite the fact he has only run into lost zone engine once and has never run into Palkia yet
(round 7 finishes)
(He dropped at 5-2)
nvm lol
gilded heart
Welp
final musk
I also took a look at the Arcanine lists
3 of them had some severe problems, and the fourth was about what I played but with slightly less consistency, slightly more tech
The one closest to mine is the one doing best of the 4, but it is clear that it has a problem with Lost engine
One tech that I saw in one of the bad ones does try to address Sableye in running Big Parasol
However, noticing at the top of the tournament, this only helps so much as long as Lost Box doesn't pick up Lost Vacuum
Some builds don't run Lost Vacuum and that's good, but some like Schmanske's build are running 2
Still don't know how Arcanine reliably keeps up against Palkia Inteleon, but it's something ig
gilded heart
Do you know the match ups for the guy that's doing the best?
final musk
for the arcanine doing best?
gilded heart
Yeah
final musk
4-3
Beat:
Mew (Which should be autowin if you don't prize Mightyena)
Arceus Inteleon (No Dunsparce)
Goodra/Empoleon V (Whose entire gimmick falls apart to decks like Arcanine)
Palkia/Inteleon (Which I am shocked he won but maybe the opponent didn't know how to deal with Arcanine by just pegging Manaphy until it can't come back, then going for Greninja kills)
Lost to:
Lost Box w/Giratina twice
Arceus Goodra
The main problem for Arceus Goodra is that you do abyssmal damage against that deck
final musk
Well Arceus Goodra likely just uses Arceus's Star ability
But it has other healing like Hyper Potion and Crystal Cave
gilded heart
Ah true
final musk
So Arcanine hits like 80-110 a hit on Goodra and it is healing 30 of that off the stadium and 120 of that whenever it feels like it
gilded heart
The two banes of my existence are Flying Pikachu VMAX and healing decks :(
final musk
Arceus Goodra is essentially an Arceus Duraludon deck with a better plan for stuff not Mew VMax or Regis
Worse against mew sure, but some people are teching Drapion to bolster that if they feel like it
gilded heart
Right
final musk
The Goodra / Empoleon deck is so funny
Hisuian Goodra, the one that grants V immunity to pokemon with Metal energy
Coupled with Empoleon V, the bane of Lost Box
gilded heart
Ah the Stage 2 Goodra
final musk
It beat 5 decks but lost rounds 1-3 to decks that can hit through the combo
gilded heart
I found the Metagame data for the tournament
final musk
Lost to Giratina
Crobat VMax (Poison deck)
And Arcanine
gilded heart
I see what you mean about Arcanine not being good enough for the format
final musk
Even the guy doing moderate with it isn't keeping up.
If he ran Parasol he might've pulled out another win or two, but that wouldn't cut it against some of the lost box builds at the top
gilded heart
Pog Eternatus is doing well
final musk
I'm glad he is settling on a very similar list to mine and is doing significantly better than the other Arcanine decks lol
gilded heart
Always nice to get validation :p
I've built Eternatus online, that deck is pretty fun
Gets a lot more consistent wins than my IRL list testing
final musk
So for the 3 lists that didn't cut it at all:
List 1 ran 3 Parasol for the Lost Box matchup, but he also ran 4 Cross Switch which honestly sounds awful for a deck like that.
List 2 straight up didn't run Slowbro and then lost a few matchups I would've expected as an easier time winning against (Mew, Zoroark VStar, Regis, Durant)
List 3 runs a bunch of tech, like running 3 Twin Energy and Steel Wormadam for beating Kyurem, but it takes a hit on consistency... also he runs 3 Peony which doesn't sound worth cutting.
The guy who ran anti-Kyurem stuff still lost to it twice
final musk
I definitely want to run Parasol now, but I am not expecting my problems to magically go away. That's kinda just a thing to weed out players who don't run Parasol or don't know what they are doing
gilded heart
Yeah
final musk
Still a fun deck, still a deck I would bring to locals if I went
Just... still not a deck I would bring to anything serious
gilded heart
Kinda seems like my IRL deck is something along those lines too
final musk
As for what I would cut for Parasol... It would have to be 1 switch card (a Scoop-up Net) and something of consistency like a Quick Ball or the VIP Pass
Probably 1 Net and 1 VIP
Running 4 tools feels oof
gilded heart
I'm hoping I can optimize it further, because I do think that attacking for 150 with a Choice Belt after a Goon ping is really strong on a single prize Basic 'mon, in terms of the prize trade. I also only need 2 Goon pings, since after 2 Absol have been KO'd Moltres can take over
final musk
I'll validate thought some other time, but it's definite a bandaid on too big a cut
gilded heart
The problem is retaining my resources
I go through them too quickly
I kinda do better with Hoopa Turbo
The thing I like about Hoopa is that it takes so little set up to do 90 damage. I can just donk people for free sometimes
final musk
Hoopa definitely needs something to complement it given 90, even after goon pings and choice belt, is low
gilded heart
It is yeah
final musk
great number for dealing with Lost box
gilded heart
Yep
final musk
But like, even Solo Cramorant hits for 110 for free.
And gets power ups from Articuno
It's like how a lotta lost box decks are pairing themselves with AR Charizard
gilded heart
The LZB match up is like, 50/50 tbh, depending on who goes second. I run like 4 Boss, so picking off Comfeys and Sableyes isn't too hard. I've also picked up some Vitality Bands to try for that match up
Which means that I can do 100 + Goon ping to KO Cramorant
final musk
Oh right yeah Cramorant
gilded heart
Being real though, I have seen like 0 LZB on the VS ladder
I don't know why
But no one wants to play it there it seems
Actually that's a lie, I saw like, one in the past two days, can't remember if it was today or yesterday
final musk
for 110 dark damage there's Hangry Tackle Morpeko lol
gilded heart
Oh yeah
final musk
(Don't do this)
gilded heart
That's something I wanted to try tbh lol
Probably not worth it though yeah
I'm gonna try a 1-1 Mightyena line with Hoopa to hit VMAXes probably, but something for VStars would be good
Actually
Thoughts on Pokemon GO Alolan Raticate?
It seems like a neat way to trade 1 prize for a KO on V Pokemon in general after a Goon ping
final musk
that's a lotta energy. Sounds like a Raihan chaining deck
gilded heart
Hm true
final musk
So like then, something to cover 110 damage like Miltank
+
Raitcate to meme on multi-prizers
gilded heart
I'm on 4 Piers currently so grabbing Twin Energy is also not too hard
I'll just play 2 Raihan in addition to that
final musk
Raticate would be Dark + Twin or DTE
Miltank would be ideally 90-110 with twin
The problem with that is you still kinda trail against Lost Box
gilded heart
I can KO Miltank with Vitality Band + Zig ping as well
Or did you mean running it :p
final musk
And Goon ping pairs well for Raticate lol
gilded heart
Hoopa has 120 HP so it itself already can't be one-shot by Cramorant without Articuno
digital crow
speaking of lost box, how's the deck doing in the tournament?
final musk
One of the best decks
digital crow
with or without giratina?
final musk
Mostly without
gilded heart
It seems to be the most represented
digital crow
at last
final musk
Yeah it's the cheapest comp deck to build online next to like
Mew
final musk
Unless Quad Blacephalon was ever #1, longer than that
Which that's a trick question
Pikarom existed
gilded heart
Oh hm
Interesting LZB runs 2 Echoing Horn
That's something I also wanted to try for the Flying Pika match up
Though I don't have a Sableye to do tons of damage to the bench
final musk
yeah it can stack stuff like Bidoof or Comfey back on the bench
final musk
I don't think it was clear #1 but DDoor Malamar and some stall decks back in the team up era at least tried to go for #1
gilded heart
Raticate*
final musk
But then in that same format Pikarom and Mewtwo Tag had tournaments they dominated too
That was at least another format where single prize decks were viable
digital crow
quagnag was viable 
final musk
yup that was another one
Oranguru Stall
Looking at Team Up - Base SwSh
You had almost every in person event dominated by ADPZ
And then both Limitless Qualifiers were stuff meant to counter ADPZ or stall it out
I miss UNB Spiritomb
digital crow
same
digital crow
ngl
a lot of single prize stuff at SM era was really fun
nuzzle box, monke stall, buzzwole turbo
final musk
The problem with most single prize stuff in SwSh era is that it took half the format for Tag Team era stuff to rotate
Your best single prize decks in the first half of SwSh era were all single prizers from Tag Team era packs
Because those were the ones not getting obliterated flat out from Tag Team era non-single prize decks
digital crow
man, how do you take the thing that made GXes more interesting than other 2 prizers that was the fact that they evolved from single prize mons
and throw that away with TTGXs?
final musk
Blacephalon
UNB Spiritomb
Excadrills
What did the first half of SwSh era have single prize decks anywhere close to competitive?
Obstagoon and Decidueye 🤮
final musk
G-Moltres was a breath of fresh air
gilded heart
How does this look? Not sure about the energy ratios
I'm not sure I need Ultra Balls (also I don't think I can afford the double discard)
I feel like I want 2 more basic Darkness energy, but space. Also PokeStop vs Training Court is a question
final musk
I would go fewer hiding energy and more basic dark
Better mills from pokestop with it
gilded heart
Hm true
I'll try cutting 2 Hiding then
I don't have PokeStop or the Miltank yet, so I'll have to acquire them. I do have 10 LOR to use
final musk
Also Drapion V/ VMax on the table for thought
Drapion V for obliterating mew
Drapion Vmax for circumventing heal with Raticate (albeit only once)
gilded heart
That could work nicely
I forget that despite being a Dark deck, I don't actually have anything hitting for super effective damage :p
final musk
Ratata : P
gilded heart
I guess :p
Hmmmm now I'm thinking about Mightyena again
It's slower to set up than Drapion, but single prize
But then again I don't have to field Drapion if I'm not vs Mew
final musk
This is sounding like a weird Zoroark box deck lol
gilded heart
It sort of is a box deck, just not Zoroark lol
I mean, maybe I just don't bother with Mightyena or Drapion and just set up Raticate vs Mew 🤔
I cut 1 Hoopa to fit in a Klara. Should make recovering stuff like Raticate easier
I think 3 Hoopa is probably enough, with 2 Ordinary Rod and 1 Klara
gilded heart
The discussion earlier today/yesterday made me think of this build :p Probably a lot of stuff to be ironed out, but it seems kinda neat
final musk
Schemanske won last night
This post is funny
Twitter
And yes, Schemanske's list played 4 Escape Rope and 3 Cancelling Cologne
The so-far solution to Empoleon V is just "Play as few box pokemon as possible to the point where it is just lost zone engine and charizard"
"Then, tech tf out against counters cuz you have all that space"
Which that list had like
4 Rope
3 Cologne
2 Lost Vacuum
and 2 Echoing Horn
His losses were all tank decks and he beat the people he lost to in top cut
Lost City isn't a good counter either, since those lists are running 3 Sableye, 2 Klara
best you can do is take out the Charizard
The next logical step would be playing a Lost Box build that can get ahead in the prize race through tanking Charizard.
Which would be Goodra or some wacky Lost Box Urshifu deck that can snipe out and banish Manaphy
Giratina can't reliably do it.
final musk
lol I just played against a youtuber I think
final musk
totally
Not like he won't just cut it from content because I donked him with Vikavolt
final musk
Opens Bidoof in active, Zoroark V in bench, he passes
I KO the Bidoof with goon pings and Vikavolt stun
He makes Zoroark VStar, pulls Research and Zoroark Vstar's ability to dig for Gapejaw bog
Doesn't pull it, forfeits
gilded heart
lol
final musk
Yup I looked it up, totally a youtuber
gilded heart
What's the name 👀
final musk
I'll wait to see if he posts a Zoroark deck build later
gilded heart
Fair
I'm liking the Hoopa Turbo build we came up with so far
Miltank already won me a game :p
Only problem is I seem to brick randomly on no attacking Pokemon/no energy, but I think considereding the amount of consistency cards in the deck, that's mainly just bad luck
Like, there's nothing I can do here https://i.imgur.com/SLjSHV6.jpeg
3 Pokestop 4 Quick Balls 4 Piers 3 Hoopa and 5 other basics 🤔
Aight I think I need to invest in some Ultra Balls
Lost to Arcanine Zoroark, which made me realise that Raticate isn't worth it over Mightyena
final musk
The next logical step would be playing a Lost Box build that can get ahead in t...
What if full meme and brought back Stonejourner for this?
I guess Blissey is also being tried in that regard too
gilded heart
I don't have an appropriate amount of metagame knowledge to comment on Stonejourner :p
Blissey can be annoying to play against though
final musk
Stonejourner VMax was a deck some people memed in effort to counter Palkia with a tanky deck that could take hit after hit while still hitting for Fighting weakness
The problem with a lot of tank decks right now is that Palkia Kyurem can build up an insane amount of damage all at once
So the best performing tank decks are more proactive in attacking and setting up quickly, like Arceus Goodra
or block a metric fuckton of damage and have a backup plan, like Lost Box Goodra.
gilded heart
I see 🤔
final musk
Hell even Goodra decks are specifically playing Zamazenta V to try and deal with that
gilded heart
Right
Unrelated, but I had another Thorton idea :p Quick or Ultra Ball away a Pokemon, add G Moltres to suck up 2 energy, then Thorton into the discarded Pokemon to use a 2 energy attack on turn 2 🤔
I guess you'd also need a Switch card to move the Pokemon from the bench
final musk
The next logical step would be playing a Lost Box build that can get ahead in t...
oh right I missed a card relevant to that Idea
Arceus decks teching Espeon VMax
Unfazed Fat Snorlax also comes up but is not safe from Charizard
final musk
You could just try going all in on Arceus Box
Arceus
Box of:
Espeon VMax
Flying Pikachu VMax
Drapion V
Zamazenta V
?
And then run Lost City instead of Path to the Peak to assist sniping Charizard???
This might be too much tech.
Or no Lost City since path to the peak also shuts off Charizard, and Pikachu blocks it with Espeon supporting it from Sableye
And despite all that you are still at odds with Goodra
moar tech, Crabominable V 
gilded heart
Sounds funny at that point :p
gilded heart
final musk
Giratina to hit hevy
Espeon to cover Sableye
Pikachu for immunity and Palkia
Drapion if desired if/when Mew is too much?
Electric, Grass, Psychic Energy required
gilded heart
Took out the Hoopas and just made a Zoroark build with 1 of each good Poison Stage 1, seems to work so far :p https://i.imgur.com/dNohG0U.jpeg
Granted my opponent seemed to be on a bad deck
digital crow
Hmm
Sitting here with 8 LOR packs yet idk what do invest in
Radiant venus sell slow, and from what i'm looking lost box stuff/radiant zards don't actually get a lot of profit
Hmmmmm
rich pine
Try to buy sableye for 3-4 and try to sell for 6-8
I’ve seen people sell multiple sableye for 3-4 each and sell individual for 6-8 each
gilded heart
Scoop Up Net is the hotness, but idk if it's actually good for trading up
digital crow
Hmm
From what i'm looking in the market
The price for sableye is on average: buying for 1 lor, selling for 3
This doesn't sound right
rich pine
Huh, prices must have changed then
Since for the past couple days no one was trading sableye so that’s what the prices were
digital crow
hmm
i see
ngl, i wonder when i should stop grinding packs and actually get a deck
a 100 packs benchmark sounds about right but at the same time, it doesn't
digital crow
yea
rich pine
That way you have 3 tries to get back into starting with 1 pack
digital crow
100 is way too much
but, i meant more so in the sense of accumulating 100 packs, then buying the entire deck at once
final musk
Moreso start with gathering staples and doing the big drops for archetypal stuff
Staples rarely go out of style and it would just need a look at around rotation
Archetypes are where you are dropping the bulk of your packs
rich pine
100 packs to buy a full deck at once is overkill
final musk
You’d be surprised how close some decks get for that
rich pine
Start with buying staples (usually 1 pack for 4-8 cards) then buy the rest of the singles you need at once
I know, I mean buying the deck all at once is overkill
final musk
(If only ptcgo prices would load for me rn) 100 packs is probably overkill for most stuff, but I’m pretty sure Palkia is over 100 to build, specifically Palkia Inteleon
Yeah 3 Palkia VStar is currently 105
Palkia Vs are 7 each, VStars are 35 each
If you go a smaller line with something other than Palkia Inteleon you probably aren’t breaking 100
The big ones for Pokémon lines as of now:
Palkia V: 7
Palkia VStar: 35
Arceus V: 5
Arceus VStar: 24
Giratina V: 6
Giratina VStar: 18
Mew V: 11
Mew VMax: 3
Genesect V: 10
Best to gather up staples, plan the archetype of the deck separate, monitor the full archetype price as per cards you need, and drop on the archetype you want
I thought mew was cheap and then I looked at the price trends on the V
Radiant Charizard is also rising so worth saving a copy
The most expensive semi-staple is obviously Scoop up net
rich pine
I know decks can cost 100 packs, what I’m saying is that saving up 100 packs to buy a deck is overkill
hollow acorn
I just found these? Anyone know if they worth anything i literally don’t play the game
digital crow
no
versed jackal
The discussion earlier today/yesterday made me think of this build :p Probably a...
Seems fine, id probably play more options for zoroak though
final musk
Moar cards
Regidrago VStar looks pretty cool
Attack cost is a chorefor something not Arceus but copying any dragon attack is sick
final musk
Strongest one for standard are:
Dragonite VStar (250 but you have to reset the pokemon next turn)
The Dragonite from Paradigm Trigger (180 and sets up another Regidrago)
Duraludon VMax (220, Hits through anything)
Flygon V (160, but hits 320 on a VMax at the cost of discarding all its energy)
Giratina VStar (280 at the cost of dumping 2 energy)
Goodra VStar (200, takes 80 less damage the following turn)
Also mention to Garchomp V (220 to any pokemon in play, albeit it would need a format Manaphy isn't popular)
Zygarde would be cool but we already have Garchomp (40x prize cards your opponent has taken, hits any pokemon)
The problem with playing Flygon V is that you have the chance that you bench it, so you'd choose whether you want to cover big number with Giratina and some damage buffs, or Flygon V and maybe a copy of Volo if paranoid.
Hydreigon can allow you to do 320... but the opponent needs to knock out a VMax the previous turn.
final musk
In Expanded, it also can copy:
Dialga GX (Timeless GX... 150 and skips an opponent's turn)
Plasma Freeze Dragonite (60 and blocks your opponent's item usage)
Hydreigon Break (150 + 50 to 2 Pokemon)
Mega Charizard EX (300 + 5 self mill)
Mega Rayquaza EX (Dragon Ascent, 300 + discard 2 energy from self)
Noivern GX (50 + Blocks Item Usage, or 120 + Blocks Special Energy Usage, or 50 to everything as a GX attack)
Palkia GX (Zero Vanish GX, 150 + Shuffles all opponent's energy in play back into the deck)
Giratina/Garchomp GX (Probably not worth accidentally benching, but can copy an effect for discarding opponent's active)
Giratina EX (Chaos Wheel, 100 + blocks tool, stadium, and special energy usage... situational af and probably not worth it)
Goomy (equal damage on self)
Haxorus (Auto knockout Team Plasma Pokemon)
Palkia and Dialga once again are basics with risk, but have powerful effects to copy
.
The fossil stuff looks meh except for Anorith. Anorith is ez 150, but has no good support to keep it going a whole game.
Regieleki is moderate damage and attack cost for Electric mon as like a tool for Arceus... but we have Flying Pikachu. You could to meme a few Eleki VMax and some basic that ends up doing +90 to +120 damage.
Lance is... probably at most a 1-of for an Arceus/Dragonbox deck
Yeah so now if I go for any bigger deck, imma probably save up for Arceus Goodra and move it to Arceus Regidrago
gilded heart
Seems fine, id probably play more options for zoroak though
Ended up doing that yeah, basically turned the deck into a Poison Box kind of build, with 1 Hoopa to have go second plays
little kestrel
digital peak
super cute
gilded heart
I think this is my new favourite deck :p Probably the most consistent Single Strike build I've made so far
Possibly a bit silly to run 0 supporters, but it's been working out https://i.imgur.com/T35Kzlq.png
Two of those losses were with a very different build
final musk
This scene at Peoria
Regis but they can't complete the bench
Vs
Zoroark VStar but has no way of applying self-damage
final musk
Both players have also had really horrible pokestop dumps too
gilded heart
I should really tune in to the stream
final musk
Isaiah Cheville, moderately known ptcg player, had a game earlier where he spent the whole game watching "Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego"
Where Carmen Sandiego was Giratina V
gilded heart
lol
gilded heart
Yeah I found it
gilded heart
Most broken turn 1 I've had so far (I won that game) https://i.imgur.com/YyVo1mo.jpg
Double VIP Pass is a drug
final musk
Top cut at Peoria
3 Palkia / Inteleon
2 Palkia / Kyurem
1 Zoroark VStar
1 Giratina VStar
1 Lost Zone Charizard
A bunch of well known players got together and labbed Regis for the event... and none of them made it
Arceus Goodra and Regis bubbled
The fact that you had to go X-2-2 to guarantee top cut, it was probably that Regi's weren't consistent enough for the event
Both Lost Zone decks got paired against each other top 8
final musk
Finals is Palkia Inteleon vs Lost Zone Charizard
final musk
Tord (Lost Zone Charizard) is getting really lucky this finals
misplayed on checkmating opponent game 1, but Cal (Palkia) drew into garbage on the turn he could come back
Now game 2, Cal opened Sobble pass and Tord just needs to set up 4 Lost Zone for Cramorant to win turn 2
He won turn 2
This whole stream has been brick central
final musk
Winning list.
Attackers are 3 Sableye, 2 Cram, 1 Charizard
Ran Cross Switcher for more control on bossing opponent, and ran 4 Path to the Peak + 3 Lost Vacuum to cover matchups with Path and turn off Path with Lost Vacuum if he ever decided to attack with Charizard partway in.
Deck is 86 USD and Charizard makes up nearly a third of it
digital crow
Hmmm
No one's buying my packs
Might need to buy the sableyes for 2 and sell for 3 instead of the 1:3 ratio i've been doing
final musk
Giratina's advantage is being able to swing for big numbers quick
but, it is also a decent amount more bricky than something like the Lost Box Charizard deck
Bricking was a very common theme for Peoria's stream
Pretty much every day-2 Lost Zone deck was either Giratina or Lost Zone Charizard.
Every single Goodra deck that made day 2 was Arceus Goodra
The only other Lost Zone deck in day 2 was a Single Lost Zone Dialga deck
final musk
It looks like the setlist for Paradigm Trigger got leaked
I'll spoiler it since I came across this by accident but don't care that much about knowing some of it
Remaining Vs: ||H-Arcanine, Chesnaut, Skuntank||
Remaining Supporters: ||Worker (Trainer Class), Candice, Brandon||
Hyped for what ||Brandon|| could be.
||Candice|| looks to have its effect leaked too
Radiant Pokemon ||are done, and not appearing in Paradigm Trigger||
final musk
Should've bought it when it was 1 pack the weekend of baltimore\
The reason for this is that Lost Toolbox is essentially phased out of the meta atm in favor of Giratina and Lost Zone Charizard
and Charizard is about the only card people can reasonably inflate the price of in that build
well "reasonably" as in people will buy into it getting pumped up
final musk
Plus Tord Reklev won Peoria last weekend with Lost Charizard as well
rich pine
Isn’t lost charizard just lost box but with charizard and some others instead of gren and 2 utility attackers?
final musk
Often not even the utility attackers
Charizard, Cramorant, Sableye, and maybe Drapion V
Basically lost engine, item techs, Charizard, maybe Drapion
little falcon
hey guys decided to finally make the jump and get a pokemon deck
Took inspiration from this deck. Any suggestions on fixes? Planning on playing at a locals tomorrow.
gilded heart
I am sadly not familiar enough with the metagame to suggest changes to decks yet, but pinging @final musk for potential advice when he's around
final musk
Took inspiration from this deck. Any suggestions on fixes? Planning on playing a...
I mean the deck you a#re pulling from is a deck that did well at a regional and beyond what anyone here can comment on for fixes. The bigger thing is that I suggest you do research into how the deck operates in various matchups.
Part of that is because I don’t follow some of the decisions, like the one-of powerful colorless energy, and when they would have impact
The core gameplan makes sense, arceus to set up reliably, then you move into Arceus, F-Pikachu, or Giratina accordingly to needs.
But I would take time to understand where and when those needs are.
little falcon
The core gameplan makes sense, arceus to set up reliably, then you move into Arc...
Yeah it’s why I liked it too.
final musk
Lost zone engine
digital crow
final musk
Well that’s a waste of a V
It’d still be really niche and probably not worth it if it said “if the Pokémon moved to the bench last turn”
But by saying “if it retreated”, you almost completely kill its use
final musk
That leaves ||Chesnaut|| and ||H-Arcanine|| to be revealed
digital crow
After failing to move my comfeys 8 times in a row, i have decided that i will just continue trading for radiant venusaur
final musk
So in completely random fashion, I can now build Giratina
Locked of course, got it from the reward ladder
took a chunk of packs from uptrading to get the Vs, had 1 VStar + this
gilded heart
Nice
little falcon
Why does Galarian Zigzagoon see play? Its ability seems lackluster but im a noob lol
final musk
Why does Galarian Zigzagoon see play? Its ability seems lackluster but im a noob...
Depending on the deck, dealing 10 damage through 50 damage with its ability can make or break certain setups and KO's. ie. In decks with Sableye, who normally can do 120, Zigzagoon allows for an easier time setting up and taking knockouts on stuff with 130 HP, like Radiant Greninja.
A lot of decks often play it with Scoop-up net to have a chance at reusing the effect too.
I play Vikavolt, which has an attack that locks down the opponent from items but only does 50 damage a hit on its own. There's a zapdos I can put on my bench for +10 damage, and 2 of them lets me reach 70 damage. But, Galarian Zigzagoon lets me hit 70 with 1 zapdos if it gets prized, or lets me hit 80 to 90 damage if needed to 1-shot other pokemon, like Sableye with 80 HP.
It allows you to line up better damage given the context of the deck itself.
little falcon
got it so that extra damage does come up then good to know
final musk
.
That Arceus deck that you were working with earlier plays Radiant Hawlucha and Choice Belt so that Giratina can one-shot Mew VMax (who has 310 HP), or go for bigger plays to one-shot other VMax (like Kyurem VMax, who has 330 HP). Since Giratina naturally does 280, it has less demand for Galarian Zigzagoon to bump up its damage to 290 or 300, as no opposing pokemon in the meta has that amount of HP.
However, there was a deck in Peoria that popped up that can require that type of damage. A legit argument for Galarian Zigzagoon (Or Choice Belt) would be against Arceus Goodra, a deck that use Goodra VStar as a pair for Arceus.
Normally, Giratina can tear up Arceus and Goodra as they are 270 and 280 HP. But, Radiant Gardevoir is played in that deck, who reduces damage from Giratina by 20, making it come short of a knockout.
Ludwig's strategy against this using the deck you posted was to go with 2 Choice Belt, which buffs that damage by 30 against the pokemon he needs to do more damage to, and 2 Path to the Peak, which can turn off Radiant Gardevoir and have use in other matchups.
Ludwig could have played Galarian Zigzagoon to correct that damage from Goodra, but for what he was trying to KO, Choice Belt made more sense as it not only fixed the damage from Radiant Gardevoir, but also made it easier reaching 310 against Mew and 330 against Kyurem without the extra hassle of getting scoop-up nets for Galarian Zigzagoon.
final musk
.
More card reveals
This thing is a meme
There was also some Candice stuff shown off too, but none of that looked too promising
This at least looks funny
Put 4 Chesnaut V in play, any time your opponent attacks Chesnaut V they take 120 damage.
Quagsire also got a V but it's ass
The last V card left to be revealed is ||Hisuian Arcanine V||
Two supporters left of ||Brandon and the Worker Trainer Class.||
Full set reveal in about a week
final musk
a Hisuian Arcanine deck trying to run for Late Night 63
This guy's matchups are going about as I would expect tho... lost to Palkia, Lost to every Lost Zone deck
Surprised he beat Arceus Goodra tho, guess H-Zoroark carried that
But yeah this still feels like proof that Arcanine isn't that good of a call unless you know Lost Zone is absent at the least
Personally would have tried fitting in 2 Parasol. and as brought up before, that still doesn't solve the issues
Yeah he just lost another Lost Zone round, it's going about as expected
Palkia Inteleon is also a really bad matchup but he never ran into that
Won his one round against Lost Zone box
🙃
opponent must've prized Sableyes
Arcanine player finished 24th
gilded heart
24th is not that bad though at least
final musk
Better than I would've expected, but brick walled by 1 archetype
nocturne wadi
Opened my nephews packs a week ago and he’s too young to play the game so I’ll just post them here
gilded heart
Opened my nephews packs a week ago and he’s too young to play the game so I’ll j...
Thanks for the codes!
opaque pelican
Alright, so I wish to work in like, a Blaziken into a GLC deck I wish to try and make a list for. Would anyone happen to have any suggestions?
rich pine
Bad news
Unless you can turbo out an ohko on the first 2 of so turns, water is just going to run you over
opaque pelican
Challenge Accepted
rich pine
Sadly you’ll probably want basic hard hitters instead of blaziken
Unless it’s really worth
Which blaziken?
opaque pelican
Well, if it's GLC I'm limited to stuff that doesn't got a rulebox.
Most recent one in Darkness Ablaze has the most HP so far, so that might be what I'm looking at right now. But the one from Dragon's Majesty looks promising too
rich pine
Youre also going to want a combusken with 90 hp, can’t remember if that exists but since it’s fire it probably does
final musk
TLDR; any card that wasn't previously revealed up until the full set reveal was either filler or Brandon
Rapidash is ok but I don't see any deck using it rn.
Brandon is tragic because it is a nerfed version of BW era Colress
Colress was: Shuffle hand into deck, draw equal to bench count
Brandon is: Draw equal to bench count, but you can only play Brandon as the last card from your hand
.
Paradigm Trigger is a pretty weak set apart from 2 VStars and a VMax. The new trainers in general bar 1 or 2 suck. A bunch of 4-card themes were introduced here that are mostly worse versions of previously done themes. Most standalone Vs are straight bad, apart from Unknown V being extremely niche and Chesnaut being fun-not-good.
.
Best cards in the set:
- Lugia V/VStar and Archeops, as its own deck.
- Regidrago V/Vstar as a toolbox attacker for discarded Dragons. By extension, Dragonite is a good tool here.
- Regieleki V/VMax as a support pokemon and retreat pivot for Electric decks. Especially holds up if rumor of Miraidon ex (the card) being Electric is true.
- Forest Seal Stone being an amazing tool for any deck that uses Vs, but didn't already use VStar Powers. Especially true for Mew VMax.
Other mildly useful or fun cards:
- Ariados as a VStar Debuffer.
- Chesnaut V as a meme deck. 4 Chesnaut to constantly deal 120 damage backlash to the opponent when they attack.
- Rapidash as eventual fire damage support. Fire just doesn't have a deck worth using this with rn since the only good fire attacker is Radiant Charizard
- Incineroar family as a great GLC line
- Raichu and Medicham as Zoroark Box options (Raichu to replace SS Electrode, Medicham as an anti-Urshifu option.)
- Unknown V for prize mapping
- Dragalge, only if poison ever gets better support.
- Coballion as an anti-dark card
- Earthen Seal Stone as an anti-VMax/VStar option that some decks can set up
- Lance as a great GLC supporter for Dragon decks
Since the Silver Tempest setlist got leaked, the only one of those cards that I listed above that is cut is the Dragalge, which isn't important at all it the current cardpool
final musk
It's time
The remnants of one of the dumbest profit investments is coming back for a second time
Context: I traded up these Ho-oh EX when they were 1 pack a piece... during Darkness Ablaze format
When Amazing Rare pokemon debuted, Ho-oh EX was hyped up for its combo with Ninja Boy
Traded each for 5 Vivid Voltage packs when Vivid debuted to make mass profit and easily build Coalossal... which wasn't a good deck but was the thing I wanted from VIVO. Also got some other stuff out of it too
I sold off 20 Ho-oh but still had 15 on me
Now, Ho-oh EX is getting hyped up again with Thorton being released.
final musk
digital crow
final musk
Top cut for Salt Lake Regionals:
4 Regis
1 Arceus Goodra
1 Arceus Flying Pikachu
1 Lost Zone Giratina
1 Palkia Inteleon
in terms of the biggest deck flopping this time, Palkia Kyurem
opaque pelican
Just pulled a Radiant Steelix today
It's a good day today, though, I'm not certain I've much use for it in a deck.
Blowing my entire deck away to just destroy a single mon sounds funny though
final musk
There's dedicated decks to the idea, but it is mostly impractical
you use Radiant Steelix to mill out the deck, then use something like Basculegion to put all the energy back and keep damage going
opaque pelican
Doesn't seem like basing one strategy around a single card that's a one-of is a good idea all in all.
Still, might impress a few people in a binder.
final musk
It worked for Radiant Charizard because that card is really good
In general, the problems with a Radiant Steelix focused deck are:
- It is way too slow to set up without playing the lottery with Zacian V and Thorton, or Magnezone
- It plays a gross amount of energy
- It legitimately has no good way of beating good single prize decks in Standard
I skimmed over a 2 hour video on the deck just now and like every match was against something you would find at the lower tables of a locals
It looks good in a binder but it isn't even that much worth trading (60 cents)
opaque pelican
Sometimes that's just all you need, just a nice card to look at.
final musk
3/4 Regis lost in top 8 kekq
And the one that won beat another Regi
Top 4 is Arceus Pikachu, Arceus Goodra, Giratina, and Regis
rich pine
Arceus Flying pikachu
It’s a big energy deck that tries to use flying pikachu to attack with no consequence
final musk
Arceus to toolbox into Flying Pikachu VMax ye
Flying Pikachu is used both for having an attack that grants immunity to basic pokemon, but also in that it is the only viable electric attacker the game has that doesn't give an Arceus deck a crippling weakness to fighting. Electric is a relevant weakness due to the prominence of Palkia
final musk
4 in top 8 and Regis are out before finals lol
3 out in 8th
1 out in 4th
Arceus Goodra making quick work of them
final musk
Finals is Arceus Flying Pikachu vs Arceus Goodra
final musk
Arceus Goodra won, and went 6-0 in top cut
yo second place was a cinderella story too, no previous tops or wins
opaque pelican
Alright, had the idea.
Relative I know absolutely adores Pikachu. But they recently wanted to like, see if they can make a deck around it.
Had the idea to help them with it, of course. Nothing too terribly expensive or complicated, but just making a very servicable sort of deck, featuring Pikachu.
versed jackal
Just play flying Pikachu
opaque pelican
Yeah, that's my idea. Just, maybe throw in Pikachu and Raichu from Lost Origin, a few good lightning mons like Flaffy.
Only issue now would be whatever VSTAR is needed to work off of Raichu. I can only think of like, Magnezone VSTAR at the moment that'd be the easiest to work with.
As much as they loved Pikachu, they actually found Raichu to be super cool.
...Which was pretty surprising, honestly. I didn't expect that.
digital crow
Only issue now would be whatever VSTAR is needed to work off of Raichu. I can on...
well, arceus is right there
final musk
If budget wasn't a thing, then yes Arceus VStar / the Arceus VStar collection would be the go-to for that
Still, there are much better choices for VStars than Magnezone
You don't care so much about the VStar actually attacking than you do just pulling off the VStar effect to get Raichu powered up
The best VStars for that are ones with beneficial abilities for VStar Powers
Arceus VStar, as mentioned, is clearly the best for this. But, if it is out of budget, there are others that can fill this role that are cheaper and still give a nice effect:
- Hisuian Decidueye VStar
- Hisuian Zoroark VStar
- Mawile VStar (Coming out in November)
- Regidrago VStar (Coming out in November)
- The tool card Forest Seal Stone (Coming out in November)
opaque pelican
Ah, seems helpful.
And yeah, I'm helping them out with decks and helpful cards, but I'm really not gonna break the bank for them
That being said, if they wish to do trading, this could be a great way to learn about it, and teach them about how to do trading in a secure way.
digital crow
Need
opaque pelican
Alright, I got this and I have to show off the artwork
IT'S SO ADORABLE
AAAAAAAA
opaque pelican
A few other thing's I am gonna note down for later on helping them out with deckmaking:
Flaffy (EVO) is a thing, and I know for a fact that'll be great.
Apparently the Zeraora VSTAR was released recently. Though, it being a promo card might make it rather inaccessible.
As is Dragonite VSTAR. The whole deal with it needing Water Energy to do attacks isn't gonna be too much an issue if Aurora Energy can be factored in.
Ideally I want to keep it simple as possible, though. As long as a typical turn doesn't take like, 20 things to do, it might be a valid thing for consideration.
final musk
Wait is Dragonite actually gonna be a thing
define "A thing"
little falcon
define "A thing"
Lol will it be competitive I guess
final musk
nope
final musk
Yeah it's pretty much just theme deck format for it rn
Dragonite V has some locals japan deck coming up, Dragonite V + Klinklang. That's waiting on cards from Silver Tempest, and hasn't been proven competitive beyond locals.
Dragonite from Silver Tempest is a tool for Regidrago toolbox, in that Regidrago just copies its attack
Dragonite VStar has and will continue to do nothing
final musk
wait you haven't seen it?
for Grass Double Fire, copy any attack of a dragon pokemon in your discard pile
digital crow
Yoooooooo
final musk
Base Scarlet Violet confirmed late January (20th)
Ampharos ex also confirmed for early on, no preview of card yet
digital crow
Thanks for the packs
digital crow
Got most of the stuff i need for my deck now, except the giratina line
That'll cost 66 packs total
rich pine
Just be me and open all of the line in a couple of packs
final musk
Moar English silver tempest stuffs
Apex Dragon is a cool name but I still really like Japan’s roughly translated Dragon Dream too
rich pine
Jojo fans be like 
noble plinth
final musk
Big art pack hitting Japan
Should be part of Western's January special pack
Some of this art is fucking amazing
While is features 2 overrated pokemon, they got the return of dual perspective cards
Leaks hinted at quite a few more cards getting alt art, but there's confirmed at least about 60 of them in the set
opaque pelican
I have no idea what I am doing
opaque pelican
Other than this travesty of a work in progress, picked up a few neat cards today, chief among them being Sandaconda V and Blaziken VMAX
I can think of a nice few decks I can do with both.
final musk
https://www.pokebeach.com/2022/10/pokemon-tcg-live-expected-to-launch-globally-next-month
TCG Live switch is happening sometime in November
Might as well trade off any packs or chase cards once Silver Tempest is out for a solid week, cuz dusting is the way the game is going from there
I was going to convert my packs for a Full Art Boss, but now it just might be better to go after a deck... as much as I feel Palkia ends up being a risk going into base Scarlet/Violet if the leak on Miraidon's typing influences its TCG ex card
opaque pelican
Oh, that's pretty cool
final musk
https://www.pokebeach.com/2022/11/more-reprints-and-15-art-rare-cards-revealed-from-vmax-climax moar art
Jfc
Moltres, Raikou V, and Gardenia all look amazing
Lumineon V too
Also it confirmed alt art trainers
opaque pelican
I know I'm not that big a fan of Cynthia, but seeing Gastrodon there is just 
Also I just love the arts, period.
Those Dunsparce just chillin' around the room is just aaaaaa
opaque pelican
So what is in like, a Build & Battle box, again?
Site says that there's a 40 card deck in it with around 4 or so booster packs, so I can assume it's a net positive over some 6 card booster sets.
final musk
40 card deck and 4 booster packs, but the 40 card deck you get is among 4 themes. It’s like getting 2 thirds of different theme decks and 4 packs
You are basically paying for what you get at a prerelease event
At best, the net value of the whole thing without opening the booster packs is like 2-3 dollars
Casually, they are a substitute for theme decks but with booster packs included
opaque pelican
Ah, nice.
Glad I'm making a... kinda right choice in getting stuff from the set?
Not too sure yet, but I already filed it out, so I'm stuck with it.
...Oh my goodness the set has a Trainer Gallery Blaziken V and VMAX.
MUST NEED
digital crow
Abiut GLC, are turbo/break cards legal?
opaque pelican
Also, BREAK have rule boxes, so nope, not legal.
This is the shiniest sort of Elite Trainer Box to date. Woah.
final musk
It's a good thing it has good card art, because it is a shit VStar functionally
Also the full list of rules for GLC:
Your deck can only contain one type of Pokémon.
Only one of each card with the same name allowed in a deck, except for Basic Energy.
Cards with a Rule Box are not allowed.
ACE SPEC cards are not allowed.
Legal Cards: Black & White – onwards
60 card decks are built & 6 Prize games are played with the most current Pokemon TCG rules.
Ace Spec are specifically not allowed for being too devastating of cards
@versed jackal When you get a chance, could we have GLC Link pinned?
versed jackal
https://gymleaderchallenge.com/
versed jackal
<@207391014774767616> When you get a chance, could we have GLC Link pinned?
Done
opaque pelican
I wonder if there's a spot where one can shop for individual coins.
I like this coin I got that is just one of those coins in GO, but I'm still looking for new ones.
A few coins can only be attained by grabbing TCG products, and I don't exactly wish to snatch up a lot of checklane blister packs for sets I don't care about just for the coin.
A shame those ones that came with that McDonalds set are made of flimsy cardboard. I don't think they hold up very well on coin flips.
final musk
They are introducing ost packs
But this is a 200 card set as an ost set jfc
(6 cards per pack instead of the usual pack size)
These ost high rarity cards are gonna be money
opaque pelican
Well, guess I got my incentive to participate now.
final musk
GLC is now starting card-specific bans
AR Kygore is first, AR Raikou might be second
opaque pelican
Pretty cool cards here: Radiant Eternatus is pretty sick, a lot of the arts on the cards are cool and...
...Wait, Simisear... VSTAR? WHAT?
Oh yeah, and Hatterene VMAX finally makes an appearance
final musk
Regigigas VStar : D
It's kinda shit for attacking D :
Sad that this comes out after rotation hits here, because this thing would be a monster in Lugia for its HP alone
300 HP is completely unprecedented for a VStar. The max before was 280
Radiant Eternatus letting you skip playing Vs is also kinda crazy
opaque pelican
The artwork for it's alternate art is pretty cool, depicting the giant actually hauling what seems to be an entire continent with ropes
final musk
Hatterene VMax also is the last Gigantimax to receive a VMax card
It took the entire generation to finish that
opaque pelican
I still find it funny how this has Simisear VSTAR, a mon that mathematically is the least popular Pokémon out of them all.
Not objectively though, I still enjoy it's design
final musk
Silver Tempest now live on Pokemon TCG Online
early on like every other pack, Silver Tempest packs can be traded for cards at a fraction of what the previous pack cost, so almost everything in Silver Tempest format is under 10 packs rn
Except Lugia
Don't bother grinding packs for Lugia, you'd have to pay
Lugia V is already 20 packs a copy
Vstar is 36 a copy
Thankfully what I'm going after first is rather cheap, Regidrago V/VStar (10 a set, total 30 packs) and Palkia Vs (5 packs for what I need to finish Palkia Inteleon)
fossil crest
TCG Live ap is out
Might wanna wait tho, game is apparently really buggy according to reviews
opaque pelican
I was gonna try out the Raid Battle rules for a few people but
It seemed... very barebones?
There's only two such raid cards; Pikachu and Drednaw, so I would imagine it would get boring quick
And with no real seeming strategy other than having a bunch of hard hitting attacks and hoping you get lucky... eh.
digital crow
Yea it never catched on sadly
final musk
Limited supply, increased demand
Also got a bunch of the regular versions and Mega Ray EX going for 5 and 8 respectively
Thank god PTCGO still supports expanded
So far got 23 packs from Charizards, and if all goes well I got another 18 to go from Charizards alone
(Context: Regidrago VStar can use these in Expanded as attacking options)
winged latch
is PTCG still worth picking up rn?
are there any good sims for it?
gilded heart
I enjoy it still
Only started playing recently too
I prefer PTCGO at least until TCG Live is a little more stable/is forced upon us
opaque pelican
Y'know, with Terastalization being the next big thing, I feel like it'd be super cool for such a thing to be a successor to Delta Species from the EX series
opaque pelican
https://www.pokebeach.com/2022/11/crown-zenith-pricing-information-revealed
WILL YOU QUIT WITH THE V-UNION THING
final musk
They were a worse handled version of legend
The only v Union that even sees any play nowadays is expectedly the one that is its own wincon
Mewtwo V Union is the closest Pokémon has to an exodia deck
rich pine
Nah pokemon had unown exodia decks for years
final musk
Banned within under a year
opaque pelican
V-Union honestly is cool
Just, why did they have to reprint Morpeko V-Union when there's so much unsold boxes depicting it
Really, one problem is just that there isn't much good ways to discard cards from the deck.
At least, not in Standard
blazing pond
Anyone have a good Mewtwo decklist?
Please ping if you do
Any Mewtwo variant is fine
final musk
Anyone have a good Mewtwo decklist?
Might need to narrow that down. There's Mewtwo VStar and Mewtwo V-Union which play entirely differently
rich pine
> Banned within under a year
Still existed for years
blazing pond
Might need to narrow that down. There's Mewtwo VStar and Mewtwo V-Union which pl...
Tell me the difference
Like, I haven't played in like, 10 years
opaque pelican
Oh, boy 10 years might be a bit of time to take everything in
Alright, so assuming this has been around 10 years, cards with rule boxes have shifted hands from EX, to GX, to V.
Pokémon V are mechanically similar to EX. But instead of V being able to evolve further into Mega Evolutions, they can evolve into VMAX or VSTAR.
VMAX are right out a straight upgrade over V in most ways, having bigger attacks and much more HP. The caveat is if they are KO'd, your opponent takes 3 prize cards, which can make it a bit of a gamble to use. VSTAR on the other hand are more similar to the GX of the Sun/Moon sets in that they have a VSTAR power. It's an ability or attack that can be used once per game, and typically have potent effects with it. Mewtwo VSTAR is a thing, much like TheGimmick has stated.
It's... well, a psychic-type VSTAR. There honestly isn't too much competition for such a title right now since literally damn everyone is just sticking to Arceus VSTAR or Origin Forme Palkia VSTAR, but it's servicable.
And the other thing mentioned is V-Union, which is a right mess. They're similar to LEGEND cards from the Heartgold/Soulsilver sets in that to play them, you need matching cards. But instead of needing 2 different matching cards in your hands, you need 4 matching cards in your discard pile instead. Which, is a pretty impractical thing to do.
Once you get 4 of them together, you can combine each of them into a single basic Pokémon and put it on the bench. Much like VMAX they have really big and potent effects, but much like VMAX, a KO means you're letting your opponent take 3 prize cards. And the quality on some of them are... very iffy.
Both Pikachu and Morpeko V-Union are just collector's pieces that you really don't want to rely on in most cases, and Greninja V-Union is the same way. Zacian V-Union has the most damaging attack in the TCG currently outside of modifiers for some attacks but has a cost to do so. It really just means Mewtwo V-Union is the best of the bunch, though that isn't saying too much. Final Burn just deals 300 damage without any additional effects.
But, that kinda implies you can get 4 cards into the pile in a timely manner.
final musk
Mewtwo VStar is comparable to your typical energy cannon deck. Load up energy on board using some method (Lunatone and Solrock, Shadow Rider Calyrex VMax, Arceus VStar) and then Mewtwo VStar gets to do 270 damage by discarding 3 psychic energy in play.
Mewtwo V-Union is, like the above, a deck where you try to get all 4 pieces into the discard pile.... what wasn't mentioned is that the win-con for Mewtwo VUnion is to use its damaging attacks to get rid of anything that can deal more than 200 damage in a turn, then use its healing attack to stall out the entire game. THAT is why Mewtwo VUnion is any bit successful.
final musk
It's... well, a psychic-type VSTAR. There honestly isn't too much competition fo...
Nope, that's not the meta anymore
opaque pelican
Jeez, they ditched it that quick?
final musk
Arceus so far is mostly reserved to just an accelerant for Duraludon VMax, and Palkia is having a really, really rough time
Current meta is:
Lugia VStar
Mew VMax
Duraludon VMax
Lost Zone Giratina VStar
Lost Zone Toolbox
Lost Zone Charizard
Regi deck Theoretically works, has no results yet.
Arceus is seeing very little success so far from being too slow, and Palkia has bad matchups on Lugia and Duraludon that very few people want to give it an honest try.
TLDR; Lugia warped the meta enough to where the top decks changed to "Can it beat and/or keep up with Lugia?"
Lugia isn't dominating the meta but it is surely the deck to focus on
We haven't had an official tournament yet for Silver Tempest, but that's what online is showing so far
So far there's been like 1 successful tournament run with an Arceus-centric deck
and 1 with Palkia
The Arceus build that did well also had to adjust its entire gameplan to double down on surviving hits from Lugia
Lugia may or may not also just get wiped off the face of existence depending on next set, because rotation kills a lot of what makes Lugia so powerful rn
Lugia isn't the biggest instance of power creep we've had in gen 8 tcg, but it is up there
Mew VMax was still easily the biggest power creep
final musk
Lugia VStar deck
Goal is to put 2 copies of Archeops in the discard pile, then immediately put them to the bench with Lugia's Star Power. Archeops has an ability that OPT, attach 2 special energy from your deck to 1 of your Pokemon. This allows the deck to attach 4 special energy from deck a turn.
Powerful Colorless Energy and V-Guard Energy give Lugia both incredible offense (Hitting 280-310 damage a hit) and survivability (280 HP with 30-50 defense against other V decks, and access to Dunsparce so that it has no weakness, AND Cheren's care so that it can completely stave off hits at the cost of Powerful Colorless Energy ending up in your hand) that no other deck has seen before.
Archeops can also attach Aurora Energy, which is this generation's rainbow energy card. This allows Lugia to also toolbox other useful options if it wanted to. Options that people have run include:
Amazing Rare Yveltal (attach 3 Aurora Energy and 1 Double Turbo Energy, KO ANYTHING)
Amazing Rare Raikou (attach 3 Aurora Energy, 120 to 2 pokemon)
Amazing Rare Zacian (attach 3 Aurora Energy, deal 300 if a VMax is in play)
Zekrom (Attach 3 Aurora Energy, 130 and Paralyzes. Also hits important weakness)
Zapdos (Attach 3 Aurora Energy, hit anything in play for 160)
Regigigas (Attach any combination of energy to hit 5 energy, deal 300 to a VMax, can include Powerful Colorless Energy for more damage.)
Raikou V (Attach 2 Aurora Energy, 20 + 20 for every benched pokemon in play, hits Lugia and Palkia for weakness)
Radiant Charizard (Attach 1-5 Energy depending on how many prizes your opponent has taken, do 250)
Stoutland V (Attach 3 energy, can include Powerful Colorless Energy for more damage. 40 damage and if it KO's something, you take an extra prize card)
Drapion V (Anti-mew option. Can also just get Energy from Archeops for 190)
And that's just the stuff that's popped up online, we haven't seen a legit competition with it
Like I said, Mew VMax was still easily the grosser powercreep
blazing pond
Tell me more about mew
opaque pelican
The card in questions is Mew V and Mew VMAX
Mew V is more of a stepping stone for the VMAX
Idea to my knowledge behind it is, you work off a variety of Fusion Strike cards to have an answer to most anything
But funnily enough one of the biggest sorts of pairings for this card isn't even a fusion strike card, it's Duraludon VMAX
Usage of this thing may have pettered out on time, but there's no doubt that its Skyscraper ability is pretty hard for most deck types to surmount
