#Magic the Gathering
stark skiff
glad peak
Can’t wait for people to brainstorm lock themselves in standard because they heard brainstorm was a good card then being called bad by people who also don’t know how to use brainstorm 
Happens in legacy with/to newer players all the time
sleek ferry
“Mommy I want Phlage”
“Honey, we have Phlage at home”
Phlage at home:
stark skiff
“Mommy I want Phlage”
“Honey, we have Phlage at home”
Phlage at home:
We can all Phlage
sleek ferry
All the lessons being high cost bombs is kinda nice
glad peak
So you want us to play then escape phlage then pay 6 mana to have a lightning helix every turn? 
sleek ferry
So you want us to play then escape phlage then pay 6 mana to have a lightning he...
Technically not every turn since you need to have a creature on the field
glad peak
You still need specifically phlage on the field for that to work
None of the copied phlages can stay even without legend rule because of phlage
sleek ferry
People on Twitter were bitching that there’s not more lesson synergy in the set, when the set literally takes place outside of school grounds
“Why would they give Avatar lessons if they weren’t going to support it in strixhaven!1!1!1!1”
glad peak
It’s almost as if they don’t design sets to specifically work with other sets
At most it’ll be synergies, nothing direct like that
tardy echo
Floodmaw to bounce enchantments/artifacts was also v strong
Decks are just a lot lower to the ground now and blue is normally paired with colors that have strong enough removal to not need it
tardy echo
Why is this target player and not just you
tardy echo
idk what tho
Well yeah that’s what I mean
And the downside is now you can change the target
Actually I guess changing the target isn’t as bad as I thought at first
But that’s still a weird downside
Holy…
subtle sierra
i mean ig it's for commander politics
tardy echo
This is what I’ve been dreaming of
Growth spiral for 3 mana but scales upwards extremely well that’s so zucking sick
I will be playing simic ramp
subtle sierra
sramp
tardy echo
It’s nice that they’ve been putting more direct land ramp so that I can dodge boardwipes better
Bc that was my issue before
Also have ppl just completely dropped the jackal decks
Just like I said they would…
glad peak
Oh no, people in my playgroup are arguing if lightning bolt emeritus can prepare itself multiple times with her own trigger
And by that logic, if they get 3 simultaneous triggers and bolt 3 times, if they can trigger her with her own ability
The answer is no 
The answer is also read the card
atomic harness
Sigh why isnt it giant growth and healing salve kid
glad peak
They should’ve just given us salving healer and lightning baller in mh1
fallow citrus
HUH
fallow citrus
this is an uncommon???
subtle sierra
You just draw 2 of the top 3 if you have any instant or sorcery in grave???
both
golden plover
WHAT THE FUCK
subtle sierra
but still
golden plover
Expressive Iteration 2
golden plover
That's ridiculous
golden plover
This is broken
golden plover
I mean, sleight of hand into this feels pretty fucking good
glad peak
T1 Flooting t2 flow state gg?
barren cairn
yeah i was going to say
fallow citrus
we didnt
subtle sierra
like i said, it's still nuts
glad peak
I did, Flooting gives you both
tardy echo
Flooting can discard a sorcery gg
fallow citrus
gg
subtle sierra
but you can't do it t2
glad peak
Flooting is a sorcery
tardy echo
Stock up into this card into stock up into this card
tardy echo
Flooting is a sorcery <:icant:1310294700384714813>
Flooting discard a sorcery and an instant*
gg
glad peak
You can turn 2 this with flooting
subtle sierra
i can't wait to prismari charm to surveil a sorc then do this
fallow citrus
ok
steady onyx
idk
im going to a pauper tournament im so excted
i think i can top 16
but we will see
maybe i get completely humbled
sleek ferry
steady onyx
but ive been on a tear recently
glad peak
You’re gonna get humbled
sleek ferry
Beseech + consecrated Sphinx as promos???
glad peak
By me
sleek ferry
How much does festival in a box go for again, $200?
steady onyx
i wanna play another 60 card format
but they so expensiver
😭
like legacy is mad expensive modern is mad expensive standard is mad expensive
😭
i kinda wanna play aristocrats tho
with erode
seems fireeee
glad peak
At least modern’s a sick format with sick people
golden plover
How much does festival in a box go for again, $200?
I wanna say $200 before tax and shipping yeah
golden plover
But you've also gotta actually get these
sleek ferry
I wanna say $200 before tax and shipping yeah
Alright that falls within my budget
golden plover
Remember that you've gotta be in line super early tho
Start watching for it to open at like 11:45
glad peak
Damn my friend’s really hitting me up to build a scalping bot again
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Wurm
Colossal Rattlewurm has flash as long as you control a Desert.
Trample
, Exile this card from your graveyard: Search your library for a Desert card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle.
6/5
glad peak
So this is one of those decks that desperately wants badgermole
So that’s another $200 or so
golden plover
Stock up into this card into stock up into this card
Wait gotta double check that [[Consider]] wasn't patched into foundations
lost widgetBOT
golden plover
Okay we're good
subtle sierra
Okay we're good
Watch them reprint it
steady onyx
Yes you want bagermole in this lands ramp deck that needs mana
nah
u don
budget deck
:)
glad peak
You’re gonna die before you cast your first real spell
glad peak
Lame combo player wants to play combo deck that’s getting lamer every year, news at 6
glad peak
Actually though, I don’t understand what people mean by titan is hard
steady onyx
affinity also looks based
glad peak
Titan’s been getting easier every year for about 10 years
steady onyx
i want a hard combo deck
glad peak
Affinity is the opposite of a hard combo deck
glad peak
Combo aggro
glad peak
After discarding your hand, yes
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Demon
Affinity for artifacts (This spell costs less to cast for each artifact you control.)
When Imskir enters, you draw X cards and you lose X life, where X is half the number of artifacts you control, rounded down.
, Sacrifice an artifact: Imskir deals damage equal to the sacrificed artifact's mana value to any target.
5/5
steady onyx
legal in modern
glad peak
You need a very specific set of cards to get turn 2 kappa
glad peak
Imskir is legal and shit
subtle sierra
steady onyx
cool
glad peak
But the real combo in affinity is weapons manufacturing + engineered explosives
glad peak
That’s your plan b in affinity
glad peak
I know some people do plan c as sewer combo but I don’t see that
Prowess is the real based deck
sleek ferry
Start watching for it to open at like 11:45
Ty for the heads up, I really need a beseech, and having it in the fancy art is a plus
glad peak
With the meta speeding up and the deck getting more pieces, living end is probably more skill testing than titan
sleek ferry
Is this the first ever 1/0 creature?
glad peak
Yawg is definitely more skill testing than titan
glad peak
Might as well play vintage dredge if you’re going the opposite direction of skill testing
tardy echo
-10 for the name
steady onyx
4 force, 4 opal
4 tomb
i own 2 petal
so the last 2 petal
oh fuck there sagas in here
;sob
sleek ferry
-10 for the name
+10 for the name
glad peak
You just casually have a volc?
tardy echo
Die
sleek ferry
Btw cake I saw something that made me think of you
steady onyx
You just casually have a volc? <:clearly:1247706297491656795>
i can play a tapped dual land
its ok
:)
subtle sierra
Is this the first ever 1/0 creature?
sleek ferry
Someone posted a picture of Rowan Blanchard (idk who it is but you probably do), and they were saying she was Galarian Sabrina Carpenter
glad peak
Maybe pauper is the next commander with how many bad habits and takes you get
steady onyx
Maybe pauper is the next commander with how many bad habits and takes you get <:...
??
wow someones being rude
misty kill them plz
knotty ferry
Someone posted a picture of Rowan Blanchard (idk who it is but you probably do),...
isn't that mr bean?
subtle sierra
ngl misty would kill you first areo
sleek ferry
Misty is busy making out with their SO, so don’t ping them
steady onyx
ngl misty would kill you first areo
never
bro misty got me into league
i need to thank her
steady onyx
for like the mental doom she has given me
subtle sierra
actually that's good
sleek ferry
Getting into league is a cruel and unusual punishment
But nobody ever accused Misty of being normal
steady onyx
i will have to talk with her
she banned me for like 3 days or something
idk
and i was bored
cause i had no one to talk to
so i decided to try league
uhm
glad peak
twilit canyon
you need to be put down fr
knotty ferry
yo, does irl standard mtg let you proxy? i know they do in commander
steady onyx
mtg is like the light and league id the dark
steady onyx
yo, does irl standard mtg let you proxy? i know they do in commander
depends
on where u playing
with friends sure
offical lgs no
glad peak
In official play, never for either format
steady onyx
well in offical play never like for anything
glad peak
Cedh is the only exception because they don’t give af
sleek ferry
What are you trying to proxy for standard
glad peak
Cedh is held mostly in grassroots tournaments also
subtle sierra
few hours too late
steady onyx
yeah
knotty ferry
nothing but i have my cards coming in in separate packages so maybe one will get delayed
steady onyx
oh
knotty ferry
What are you trying to proxy for standard
why
glad peak
You
steady onyx
hey he cant do that
sleek ferry
Oh just asking, was going to check to see if I had it for you
And then you could just pick it up from me
glad peak
Unrelated I got 8 different packages I didn’t order
steady onyx
nah i bought eveyrthing
what deck???????
knotty ferry
dimir midrange
golden plover
Pretty much the only places you can proxy for tournaments are cedh and legacy
Since they're less officially organized
tardy echo
Btw cake I saw something that made me think of you
What
tardy echo
Someone posted a picture of Rowan Blanchard (idk who it is but you probably do),...
Idk who that is
golden plover
Ya know, I just realized there's gonna be a ton of misplays (intentional or unintentional) and angle shooting with this card in paper actually
Specifying "instant AND sorcery" in the textbox means most people will default to reading "instant OR sorcery" because that wording is used 9 times out of 10. This is a cheater's dream card
sleek ferry
Oh it’s both, this card is
W.e
golden plover
Waiting for the drama when this card is misplayed on a feature with only an instant in the grave
sleek ferry
You probably won’t have to worry about that since the card probably won’t see play
golden plover
It's still legit very good
Prowess and spellementals prob still run it
And modern/legacy/cedh will all find use
sleek ferry
What sorceries does spellementals even run? I’m drawing a blank here
golden plover
I feel like "instant or sorcery" is one of the most used lines of text so it probably should be emphasized when it's "instant AND sorcery"
golden plover
What sorceries does spellementals even run? I’m drawing a blank here
Sleight of Hand is in both lists
sleek ferry
Oh sleight of hand right
golden plover
Stock up for Spellementals
Some prowess lists play stock up too
Prowess plays Boomerang Basics
And some spellementals lists run the otter core
subtle sierra
You probably won’t have to worry about that since the card probably won’t see pl...
that's like saying accumulate wisdom didn't see play
golden plover
Spellementals also runs Glacier Dragonhunt and Winternight Stories
Both lists will have no trouble turning this on
sleek ferry
that's like saying accumulate wisdom didn't see play
Comparing this card to accumulate wisdom is an INSANE stretch
sleek ferry
Wisdom is also an instant
subtle sierra
yes, and the card is a sorc just so that it sets itself up for another copy
because most of the decks that want it will have more instants
it can also be set up with just one card, as opposed to 2 that lessons need
or at least multiple triggers of grandma
because the earliest you can set it up is grangran t1, into discard lesson t2 and t2 attachments discard lesson
granted gran gran will also discount there, but that's still a 2 card combo to set up wisdom
flow state can be set up with a simple cast of a single spell that discards/mills/surveils/explores/ w/e
i'm already changing my izzet build to have more sorcs just cause t2 prismari charm can just surveil 2 draw 1
both digging for it and setting it up if you see a sorc
this card is still a 2 mana stock up that only really has a deckbuilding cost
only downside it has compared to stock up is if you're mana starved and fishing for lands
when the score is big
tardy echo
Stock up has a larger card selection as well which matters in a couple scenarios
They’re prob around the same power level honestly in standard at least
Formats with preordain and co legal is a different story though
stark skiff
Beseech + consecrated Sphinx as promos???
Beseech just came in one of the D&D SLD
stark skiff
Remember that you've gotta be in line super early tho
These usually last a while
subtle sierra
Stock up has a larger card selection as well which matters in a couple scenarios
yeah that's fair
the card quality it picks up will be noticeably worse
tardy echo
Not terribly so
But having more options > having less options
Like there’s uh
What’s the cards name
[[Drawn from dreams]]
lost widgetBOT
tardy echo
Used to be a playable card iirc
stark skiff
tardy echo
Everything returns to crab…
twilit canyon
not everything... u must first be in their family
tardy echo
not everything... u must first be in their family
Can I marry in
twilit canyon
u can try
tardy echo
I’ll succeed
Also
I feel like 8 lands for the regrowth is
A very high number
Like she enters prepared but compare that to like any of the witnesses
I have received a vision. Word of command will be the black emeritus spell @twilit canyon @golden plover
trail anvil
it's very much a commander card tbh
tardy echo
Commander already has enough cards with this effect
It’s just a bad card idk
What green decks are gonna play the emeritus over [[evolution witness]]
lost widgetBOT
Creature — Elf Shaman Mutant
: Adapt 2. (If this creature has no +1/+1 counters on it, put two +1/+1 counters on it.)
Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on this creature, return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand.
She remembers every breakthrough, from the gene's mutation to the new life's propagation.
2/1
trail anvil
eh the threat of plussing each turn is notable I think idk
tardy echo
Or just find ways to replay eternal witness
trail anvil
evolution witness is very specifically a +1 counter deck card
glad peak
[[word of command]]
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
these are both definitely different niches
glad peak
Until the spell finishes resolving? 
tardy echo
She can self fuel for 2 mana which is the exact same at baseline
And green doesn’t exactly struggle to find counters
The amount of green decks that want extremely recursive regrowths is already v niche and made use of the cards already afforded to them
glad peak
I have more questions than answers about word of command
tardy echo
An extreme niche case exists for very spell heavy green ramp decks that want to recur high value sorcery ramp/bombs but that’s just. Not very good
And those types of decks could also still just make use of evolution witness, or again, the plethora of efficient single use regrowths that already exist
tardy echo
Timeless grabs any card
And I think the amonkhet one does too but nobody plays her anymore
trail anvil
[[timeless witness]]
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Creature — Human Shaman
When this creature enters, return target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Eternalize 
(, Exile this card from your graveyard: Create a token that's a copy of it, except it's a 4/4 black Zombie Human Shaman with no mana cost. Eternalize only as a sorcery.)
2/1
trail anvil
you mean ewit? cause timeless is the amonkhet one
trail anvil
but idk it's not the same either way, one demands removal while the others are one use or two use at best
tardy echo
Demand is a pretty strong word for it personally
Most decks don’t need to trigger it more than 2-3 times max and plenty of decks get by with just 1 anyways
trail anvil
idk any card out the gy each turn is pretty strong 😬
tardy echo
It wasn’t exactly hard to trigger evo witness before lol
trail anvil
not to mention timeless witness requires 7 mana on the second cast which is close to 8 lands
trail anvil
lands + mill is a pretty dang big archetype and keeps getting bigger with stuff like lumra, aftermath analyst, summon titan, etc
tardy echo
But in green hybrids it’s v v easy to recur ewitness which is much more efficient and in mono green you have 17 quadrillion cards that repeat place +1 counters
Many of which you play for reasons aside from the +1 counters
trail anvil
I feel like I'd rather spend reanimation on anything else and just have this going lol
tardy echo
Id rather reanimate whatever this was probably gonna target in either case and not waste the card slot on something bad
I think generally you’re also overestimating the strength of regrowth effects
trail anvil
again evo witness only recurs permanents though which actually is extremely relevant. and +1 counters are not as reliable as you're saying unless you're playing a deck specifically for that
regrowth is playable alone tbh, each turn means your hand is your graveyard in terms of card selection
tardy echo
Permanents only is relevant +1 counters are extremely reliable I’m sorry
It takes extremely little investment to find good consistency repeating them
trail anvil
I mean I'm guessing you're thinking of scythecat cub and bristly bill
and then what else?
glad peak
There’s that pauper combo where you recur the thing that gives it a +1/+1 counter
tardy echo
Earthbender ascension for a recent example
trail anvil
in a dedicated counters deck evo witness goes hard as hell I'm not gonna dispute that, but that's a dedicated counters deck
sure that's a third one
tardy echo
Tribute to world tree great henge etc
Green has a ton of value pieces that make it v easy idk
tardy echo
Ah is adapt only if it’s no +1 counters I forgot how the keyword works
trail anvil
yeah
tardy echo
Sighge
You also don’t need as many sources as you would in other colors because green is the de facto creature tutor color
Sotf fauna shaman speaker gsz that list goes on
trail anvil
I mean if you wanna get into tutors at that point then why are witnesses even in the conversation
the game is gonna be fast enough that ewit should be all you need
tardy echo
I also said that already holy
I generally just think it’s incredibly niche to try to find a deck that wants to regrowth multiple times a turn but specifically wants to regrowth non permanents but also is mono green and also has an easy way to ramp to 8 but also plays out a long game
trail anvil
okay sure then if you want me to get more specific, this is a bracket 2 or 3 card lol
tardy echo
That’s not a commander deck that’s just a bad deck
Bracket 1 kid 
Doesn’t bracket 3 still let you infinite
trail anvil
sigh kidge you can't even regrowth multiple times a turn 
tardy echo
I said the wrong word
trail anvil
bracket 3 lets you infinite yeah
tardy echo
Then yeah I would portend bracket 1/2
Anyways my original point was just that 8 lands is an egregiously high number for that effect
The intended idea is prob ramp to 8 cast x spell for 8 next turn add back cast for 6 or whatever
But meh
glad peak
With hoarding broodlord you can get into saw in half + manamorphose + pinnacle monk + burnt offering + eternal witness to regrowth everything, much more efficient than 1 regrowth a turn
trail anvil
all that aside tbh it also has a relevant body + elf typing
tardy echo
Yeah ewitness has a couple infinites associated already so once you get into that territory idk this card feels so pointless
Is ewitness not an elf??
trail anvil
ewit is a human
tardy echo
wtf
fallow citrus
hunan shaman iirc
tardy echo
She has a wolf with her
trail anvil
that's racist!
tardy echo
Humans don’t do that unless they’re from innistrad
fallow citrus
[[eternal witness]]
lost widgetBOT
tardy echo
Also not very eternal if she’s a human 
glad peak
With hoarding broodlord you can get into saw in half + manamorphose + pinnacle m...
You can also do this with all the other witnesses
trail anvil
all that said nothing else matters in the face of this card
what do you mean grab 2 jesus fuck
tardy echo
With hoarding broodlord you can get into saw in half + manamorphose + pinnacle m...
I know what 4 of these cards do
So just to make sure I’m getting it right
trail anvil
isn't this a cedh finisher
tardy echo
Primary theming for mono colors is the secondary color of the school?
Also are there good ways to un brainstorm lock yourself in standard
glad peak
Broodlord + 2 more mana is a kill
Usually
Actually no that’s just peer into the abyss, for a full non deterministic kill you need to do something else on the third search
tardy echo
Sigh
glad peak
But yes it’s still a kill
Or if you’re rich and already have a metric ton of mana then you just grab thoracle consult win the game
golden plover
When will Mark Rosewater be held accountable for his lies
This is not a 1 mana 6/6
zinc shard
It can be a 1 mana 6/6
trail anvil
that is literally a 1 mana 6/6 idk what to tell you
zinc shard
subtle sierra
smh i already posted
tardy echo
This card seems cool
subtle sierra
since i posted in another chat
3 mana 1 2/2
5 mana 2 4/4
7 mana 3 6/6
it's like
ok
zinc shard
plus 3 mana to cast Jadzi
subtle sierra
well yeah
the body is comparable to tersa but i think tersa is better due to haste
golden plover
It's like kinda a build your own wan shi tong, but you get the draw upfront
golden plover
It's also probably better in a deck with other fractals
trail anvil
if it were twice x it'd be much more worth
it's probably still okay as a card cause she's got a fat butt and a loot effect, just not the most interesting
golden plover
Yeah 7 mana for 3 2/2s plus her own cost is ROUGH
subtle sierra
i thought it made the fractals gain the counters, then added more on every
i misread that a lot
she's kinda ass
trail anvil
oh she does add counters to existing fractals ig
golden plover
Yeah if you've got some stray fractals for some reason she's probably decent
trail anvil
idk about decent, I just thought it was a fun little synergy point lol
subtle sierra
idt she's decent even when buffing existing ones
trail anvil
3 mana 2/4 loot 2 is certainly a thing that exists, just the whole card seems uninteresting
subtle sierra
the fact that the effect i misread actually made her almost playable in my eyes
golden plover
Okay but when I kill you in limited because my 45 fractals are all 8/8s it's worth it
subtle sierra
makes the real one absolute dogshit
glad peak
Oh hey heartwood storyteller’s seeing tinkering
Great way to ensure all your games end in draws
My friend plays this card in casual tables and loudly introduces the trigger but no one draws their cards because no one reads
past socket
Pointless pedantry is fun!
golden plover
I'm actually kinda annoyed Izzet Prowess is the best deck again. It's obviously not as good as it used to be, but the gameplay with and against it is so boring
sudden lava
this being a 1/0 makes it worst actually
subtle sierra
golden plover
Their list has hardly changed too, minus losing banned cards
knotty ferry
I'm actually kinda annoyed Izzet Prowess is the best deck again. It's obviously ...
Tell me about it
subtle sierra
idt saint was talking about lessons
knotty ferry
Isn't this prowess
subtle sierra
no
sleek ferry
Some prowess lists run stormchasers still
knotty ferry
Yeah they said prowess
subtle sierra
it's a good card 🤷♂️
knotty ferry
Wait
subtle sierra
no it's a different deck
subtle sierra
the ability is, but it's not the prowess deck
knotty ferry
What does the prowess deck run
subtle sierra
which is what saint was complaining about
this list is kinda ass uhh lemme find another
subtle sierra
just because some lesson lists run stormchasers, it doesn't make it izzet prowess
golden plover
The difference is that this deck is trying to run you dead on t3-4
And that's just kinda lame to me: Have all your interaction t1-2 or lose
subtle sierra
that's like saying running pankratops makes your deck a dinowrestler deck
golden plover
Lessons wants to play a grindier game and I can respect it
knotty ferry
I'm still lost, doesn't running stormchasers talent make the deck a prowess deck
subtle sierra
no
knotty ferry
It's centered around that
subtle sierra
lessons?
tardy echo
Prowess is just an aggro deck
knotty ferry
Wait so the screenshot I sent
golden plover
Prowess is aggro
tardy echo
It doesn’t center around any cards
knotty ferry
Was that not prowess
golden plover
Lessons is control
tardy echo
That was lessons
golden plover
Both decks run stormchasers yeah
tardy echo
Which is an actual archetype
subtle sierra
i can see the combustion spat
golden plover
But their wincons are vastly different
knotty ferry
I thought lessons doesn't run stormchasers
subtle sierra
most don't
tardy echo
Pixie also runs stormchasers and is notably not a prowess deck
tardy echo
Stormchasers is an extremely strong card
golden plover
Yeah I wouldn't mind it dying
tardy echo
That you can play in an extremely high number of blue decks
knotty ferry
Oh, I guess you're saying it's lessons because of the cards underneath the otters in the stack
subtle sierra
yes
tardy echo
Maybe this is a bad mindset but with blb rotating so soon i think it’s like w/e
knotty ferry
But sure
subtle sierra
cause only lessons run lessons, barring abandon attachments
knotty ferry
Oh ok
golden plover
Spellementals does run abandon yeah
knotty ferry
That's why I was confused
subtle sierra
attachments happen to be a good looting version
golden plover
And all three run boomerang
tardy echo
The lists that run stormchasers all run boomerang
tardy echo
Which is sort of the core of the card
subtle sierra
yeah you only play boomer if you play chasers
golden plover
tardy echo
Basics + talent make an insane advantage cycle
golden plover
Lmao guess they can't all be winners
knotty ferry
From what I've played against, I know of 3 izzet versions
- a version that plays all the lessons and artists talent + monument
- a version that plays this one otter creature + stormchasers talent (but apparently all run stormchasers now?)
- the one with elementals (the crab guy, the bounce everything guy, and the hell gate guy)
tardy echo
This would be cooler if this set didn’t also literally have sea gate restoration but from your graveyard
subtle sierra
From what I've played against, I know of 3 izzet versions
1) a version that pla...
yep
izzet lessons
izzet prowess
izzet spellementals
they're all 3 diff decks
knotty ferry
Yea
golden plover
All three run the otter core yeah
knotty ferry
But now apparently all run stormchasers
golden plover
So that's the only thing you'd have trouble predicting g1
knotty ferry
But obv it's defined by the other parts
sleek ferry
Oh is lessons moving away from the boomerang core?
Yeah it’s the Simon Nielsen tech
tardy echo
Stormchasers talent is a very strong card that’s generically playable
golden plover
Seems like some lessons lists are moving away from the otter core yeah
knotty ferry
I hate that card
sleek ferry
golden plover
But the other two are for sure on it
tardy echo
1 mana 1/1 prowess alone is a pretty good body and then it has all the extra baggage
subtle sierra
like i said, all of those izzet decks are running pankratops, but it doesn't make all 3 decks dinowrestler
is the best analogy i can give
tardy echo
Striker analogy is also decent
Esp bc striker cards form the engine for some of those decks
subtle sierra
three steps can copy endurance, saint
knotty ferry
Yeah, I understand now, I just didn't look at the cards underneath the otters
tardy echo
Striker yummy =/= sky striker
golden plover
three steps can copy endurance, saint
Oh shit that's sick actually. And it's also a discard
knotty ferry
Also the lessons versions I've played against looked like what thugs posted
golden plover
Striker analogy is also decent
Or Fiendsmith yeah?
subtle sierra
yeah it's also a hard counter that can loot for 2 more mana
golden plover
All the decks running the Fiendsmith core weren't all Fiendsmith
tardy echo
It’s all the same idea
golden plover
Pure fiendsmith doesn’t exist
I mean there's not really a pure otters decks rn
There's the idea of one
past socket
I’m guessing it’s like saying Apples and tomatoes are the same because they’re a fruit
golden plover
But it's bad
golden plover
Yeah the pure otters deck isn't really there
tardy echo
Or at least something close to it in the same vein as what prowess actually does
Pop 4/5 spells in a turn win and if you don’t win pop 4/5 spells in a turn play ral and then he wins
It feels like a card that was intended for that type of deck more than stuff like lessons/elementals
And it definitely doesn’t feel intended for a deck like pixie
twilit canyon
they made otter cards and then intended for them to be played casually in one deck but had clear plans for the viability of others
golden plover
It was totally intended for the "weave spells and non-spells" otter archetype
tardy echo
I hate to say that that’s just a huge theme in izzet cards
twilit canyon
yes
tardy echo
It’s storm colors and half of the cards they make in red and blue are for small spell slinger
twilit canyon
that is izzets main thing
tardy echo
Not really a unique archetype
zinc shard
When the Iteration is Expressive
twilit canyon
fuck
tardy echo
And a shockingly high number of otter cards have ended up playable
twilit canyon
i already have 12 iterations
tardy echo
When the Iteration is Expressive
Cumming
zinc shard
twilit canyon
make it 20
tardy echo
This one’s way more whack imo
twilit canyon
still hot
stark skiff
tardy echo
Expressive also already has a trillion rlly good alt arts
twilit canyon
it was up for consideration too
i feel like u could have easily argued a ban for iteration in modern
like
3-4 years ago
tardy echo
Surely this means it’s now fine in legacy
zinc shard
past socket
The bisexual lighting expressive iteration
sleek ferry
Damn that’s a fire art
lusty trench
People have been talking about cards like these in the set because they technically dont define what X is
fallow citrus
I saw the same twitter post
I think the only way you don't understand that the X is defined by the x you pay for the other spell is if you haven't played much magic
lusty trench
Its super obvious how this is supposed to work to the point where I think new players would get it
But at the same time, kinda funny
past socket
Was gonna guess X was what you paid into X for that X spell
lusty trench
Was gonna guess X was what you paid into X for that X spell
Yeah, but the card technically doesnt say that
The card checks an boolean on if you cast an X spell (true or false), its triggers, and then X is undefined
zinc shard
there's literally only 1 other instance of X on the card
lusty trench
Right again the intention is super clear here
I'm not saying "this doesnt work", im saying if you want to be a technical pain in the ass umm actually, X isnt defined
past socket
Are you worried about rules lawyering?
lusty trench
Nah i just think its funny
Its like the old "go to the super market and get a carton of milk, if they have bananas, get 12" and the guy returns with 12 cartons of milk joke
golden plover
Yeah, but the card *technically* doesnt say that
Oh wait!! The wheel got errataed for this
This technically works that way!!
SECOND DAY 0 ERRATA BABY!!!
lusty trench
The wheel?
golden plover
The modern horizons wheel got errataed for working the same way
Because they didn't define X
sleek ferry
The GOAT Ben Bateman got a video with the Jp EI art @tardy echo https://youtube.com/shorts/Cp9IfH1F-Gs?si=kwyl6jKqo0Jef4Iw
lusty trench
Because they didn't define X
Oop
sleek ferry
[[wheel of potential]]
lost widgetBOT
Sorcery
You get 
(three energy counters), then you may pay any amount of .
Each player may exile their hand and draw a number of cards equal to the amount of paid this way. If seven or more was paid this way, you may play cards you own exiled this way until the end of your next turn.
The wheel only has one sure output: chaos.
golden plover
So currently, within the rules, this says "You can tutor a card"
tardy echo
That’s hot
tardy echo
giving dogshit cards fire art
Tbf I think they don’t want more $100 cards out of archives
sleek ferry
Wheel of potential had vastly different text + a cost attached to it
“You get EEE (three energy counters), then you may pay X E.
Each player may exile their hand and draw X cards. If X is 7 or more, you may play cards you own exiled this way until the end of your next turn.”
golden plover
So yeah technically this works the same way pre-errata wheel does
Oh wait according to how [[Zaxara]] is worded it doesn't
lost widgetBOT
Legendary Creature — Nightmare Hydra
Deathtouch
: Add two mana of any one color.
Whenever you cast a spell with 
in its mana cost, create a 0/0 green Hydra creature token, then put X +1/+1 counters on it.
2/3
sleek ferry
Yeah, wheel of potential was a specific situation because it had a cost in its text box
fallow citrus
how does anyone play casual commander man
this is so fucking boring
and everyone plays like 10000 board wipes so nothing ever happens
stark skiff
i find the opposite is true that no one ever runs enough board wipes lol
or like removal in general
sleek ferry
how does anyone play casual commander man
You might have been playing casual casual commander
fallow citrus
whatever I was playing I'm never playing again
sleek ferry
But if I’m being frank, the best games of casual commander come from precon commander or upgraded precons, because most players cannot deckbuild for shit
knotty ferry
Frank? I thought you were Dario
sleek ferry
I’m only Dario after showering
knotty ferry
Interesting
fallow citrus
I'd just rather play cedh with friends because it's still easy enough to enjoy it between friends and it actually feels like I'm playing a tcg and not a game of monopoly
knotty ferry
Btw, is there one color that's just, like, the most popular? Idk if it's just cause of the starter deck or whatever but 50% of my matches are against something with White, so I'm wondering whether White is just insanely popular amongst the average playerbase
trail anvil
could be the starter decks ye
sleek ferry
Btw, is there one color that's just, like, the most popular? Idk if it's just ca...
Blue, black and Red are usually the most popular colors
trail anvil
lifegain is also a noob trap
knotty ferry
White red was dragons or burn
sleek ferry
Boros Dragons is such a cool deck
knotty ferry
Boros Dragons is such a cool deck
I actually wanna play it
sleek ferry
Just counter it
knotty ferry
That might be my next deck
sleek ferry
[[spell snare]]
lost widgetBOT
stark skiff
But if I’m being frank, the best games of casual commander come from precon comm...
gotta agree these have produced some of the best games just from a fun standpoint
knotty ferry
And tbf I can remove it on my turn
sleek ferry
gotta agree these have produced some of the best games just from a fun standpoin...
The issue is deckbuilding for most players
Like I’m currently building a falco spara casual commander deck, but cannot figure out what should be my actual win con
knotty ferry
trail anvil
The issue is deckbuilding for most players
ik one player who has no idea how to build a curve at all
regularly sits doing nothing for 80% of turns and when he does play a spell it doesn't really impact the board
one of his better decks was just the boros mkm precon lol
twilit canyon
lowkey
casual commanders are also just kinda
boring as shit?
i see a lot of the popular casual commanders and i ask wtf they are actually doing
this is a trick question the answer is nothing
its all moving at a snails pace at best
sleek ferry
I had this one girl at locals that was telling me she plays mono red in commander, and I’m like “oh, you probably win by turn 6-7 right?” She looked at me like I was crazy, and then said “6 or 7? Our commander games don’t end before turn 11-12”
I was like ?????
sleek ferry
i see a lot of the popular casual commanders and i ask wtf they are actually doi...
This is again, a deckbuilding issue. Casual commander players do not know how to actually build decks and fun interactions for their commander.
That’s why most people that play non cedh will agree, the funnest commander games are usually just precon wars
tardy echo
Btw, is there one color that's just, like, the most popular? Idk if it's just ca...
White and red are the easiest colors to play pretty often
Whites also a very popular support color and a lot of extremely popular archetypes for new players involve the color white
sleek ferry
White and red are the easiest colors to play pretty often
Sigh that’s green son
tardy echo
In actual comp play blue is normally the most played color though 
tardy echo
Sigh that’s green son
Loud incorrect buzzer
sleek ferry
Knowing how to properly play mono red aggro is actually what makes you a good overall player
twilit canyon
yea but entry barrier for red is often low too
stark skiff
tardy echo
Knowing how to properly play mono red aggro is actually what makes you a good ov...
Ok but it takes incredibly little skill to start playing aggro
Many such cases
tardy echo
Something in my soul makes me think this will be playable 
trail anvil
eh we've gotten this effect before with a bit less flexibility and it's never made ripples
actually nvm apparently it's just been only on your creature? for some reason I thought [[wild shape]] targeted either players' creatures
lost widgetBOT
sleek ferry
Wild shape is such a funny card
past socket
I say shoutout every card with the visual pun tag on scryfall
tardy echo
eh we've gotten this effect before with a bit less flexibility and it's never ma...
It’s very heavily asterisk’d 1 mana blue permanent removal
But I’m only half serious I just like the art a lot
rigid scarab
I had this one girl at locals that was telling me she plays mono red in commande...
I’m sure a goldfished mono red commander deck probably wins by turn 7
I think she probably means that the game usually physically ends turn 10 because she doesn’t win all the time
Also it could just be control-heavy pods
sleek ferry
Nah, she just plays like ultra casual
Like the play very limited board wipes/removal
rigid scarab
Aeri brought this up too but
The big flashbang 60 card players will get when experiencing edh is just that you aren’t playing magic anymore
You’re playing a board game
With all the social contracts and expectations of a board game
Imo the appeal of edh deckbuilding is that not only do you have access to an extremely wide cardpool and have much more freedom for very interesting interactions
You aren’t exactly incentivised to fine-tune your deck to any meta unless you’re on cedh
But lost competitiveness can drive people away
I haven’t read a single UB card and I feel no incentive to
It’s great
rigid scarab
Nah, she just plays like *ultra casual*
“Ultra casual” I assume just means that everyone’s wincon is gonna be lategame big stuff
That’s usually what an ultra casual would think to win
sleek ferry
No, ultra casual as in there is no thought out win con
And games are won through just combat damage
Also, Commander doesn’t have to feel like a board game. This again just comes down to bad deckbuilding
Like Komi pointed out, players don’t know how to build a curve for one, how to identify interesting ways for your commander/colors to close out games
tardy echo
“Ultra casual” I assume just means that everyone’s wincon is gonna be lategame b...
Ultra casual means cards they think look cool
I’ve seen what I would consider an ultra casual deck who’s “curve” was 1-2 and then 6-8 drops
With one single 3 cost card
sleek ferry
Commander players should just normalize playing upgraded precons
Let WotC build your decks
Then upgrade the cards that don’t make sense
(Usually the reprints)
past socket
I just embrace being a massive Timmy and kill people by explosive instants and sorceries
rigid scarab
Also, Commander doesn’t have to feel like a board game. This again just comes do...
Even when good deckbuilding is encouraged, board game mentality is encouraged as well
“Dont kill people early,” “Yeah just mull till playable,” “I’m gonna hit you because you won last game”
This doesn’t have to be the case obviously, but that kind of table is the norm for edh, good decks or not
rigid scarab
I just embrace being a massive Timmy and kill people by explosive instants and s...
Being a timmy doesn’t mean your deck has to be bad
past socket
Being a timmy doesn’t mean your deck has to be bad
And did I say that? Fuck no.
Most of my doing that comes down to cheating mana costs and junk. Doing a silly can still require a lot of thought
sleek ferry
“Dont kill people early,” “Yeah just mull till playable,” “I’m gonna hit you bec...
Not killing people early shouldn’t have to be a discussion. You know why CEDH usually leads to back and forth gameplay? Because it’s completely stupid to kill a single player (most of the time) and take away 1 point of interaction at the table
That’s why the majority of win cons are just that, winning on the spot. This same mentality should carry over to non cedh and would naturally make for back and forth gameplay without having to stress “don’t kill people early”
rigid scarab
Not killing people early shouldn’t have to be a discussion. You know why CEDH us...
Not killing people early is usually said in contexts where it would be the correct decision
sleek ferry
It’s almost never the correct decision to take away a point of interaction at the table
rigid scarab
And even in contexts where it’s correct it’s not encouraged to do so is my point
sleek ferry
The other thing is, that different playstyles should be encouraged at the commander table. We shouldn’t shame people for wanting to play a turbo deck, just because your deck takes 6 turns to do a single thing
Different playstyles in any given pod make for a more interesting game
rigid scarab
I’m not saying that the playstyle is encouraged to be homogenised, just the mentality
A play a competitive player might make to sneak in a win at an event might not fly in a casual edh table
Like blatantly lying about your hand to make people not point interaction at you and then popping off
Heavily frowned upon behaviour that’s largely just excused by saying “skill issue”
And is something that’s entirely legal and not even optimal in tournament
By right no one should be mad at it but a lot of people are
rigid scarab
It shuts off 1 fetch yeah
golden plover
Yeah exactly one fetch
It's fine. If we ever get nykthos decks again it's a cool board card
Maybe you run it in cedh in case your opponent has Bazaar or strip mine
Oh wait. They can respond to the etb
It sucks shit
golden plover
Does hit saga ig
You can also just diversify your fetches to avoid it
My Arid Mesa and my Bloodstained Mire can both grab Blood Crypt
zinc shard
past socket
Sal ended up getting nearly murdered by a spirit of the Blood Age, making him tonight’s biggest loser
tardy echo
can shut off fetches
It’s pretty bad at it lol
sudden lava
they mislabeled this art in the debut trailer btw
golden plover
Sorcery
rigid scarab
Does hit saga ig
It stops them from making a construct and that’s it?
golden plover
It stops them from making a construct and that’s it?
Does it not turn off the search too?
rigid scarab
Its a triggered ability…
golden plover
Oh lmao card is dog shit
golden plover
You maybe play one in cedh for bazaar ig? But you can also just wasteland the bazaar
I don't see this being better than wasteland unless you REALLY need it to tap for colored mana
rigid scarab
It doesn’t stop passive abilities either
tardy echo
If they have land recursion it turns off extra copies
And taps for mana while shutting down
But it’s not a very good card no
rigid scarab
I mean I guess you can just straight up name “Forest” or something
golden plover
Yeah true. But the situation specific enough to make this card good is too specific to run hate
rigid scarab
Try and turn off mono decks
tardy echo
Titan might play 1 in side or something as a searchable hate piece but idk what modern decks would get fucked by that
tardy echo
I mean I guess you can just straight up name “Forest” or something
Mana abilities unaffected
golden plover
Titan does probably play one in modern yeah
rigid scarab
It keeps getting worse!
tardy echo
Because otherwise yeah that would be fucking broken actually lol
Play vs mono green name forest and they literally can’t play I fear that would be ridiculous
golden plover
God I wish I could declare forest with this shit lol
Hey if Nykthos ever becomes good again ig
tardy echo
This would’ve gone hard when wolf run was the best land in the game
rigid scarab
It kills urborg for coffers
This doesn’t kill urborg
tardy echo
/ yavimaya for forests
rigid scarab
It only stops activated abilities
golden plover
Look man I'm trying
tardy echo
lol
golden plover
Yeah it doesn't hit Yavimaya
tardy echo
I mean I was under no impression the card was good
golden plover
Hits thespians stage in legacy sometimes
tardy echo
Flavor wise it’s meant to be anti campus
They don’t want to make land hate good for a reason shrug
Wasteland and strip mine notoriously popular cards!
rigid scarab
Wasteland and strip mine notoriously popular cards!
This cant even hit wasteland bc they just use it in response
So you have to play this and name wasteland
They wasteland in response
And then next turn you play the land you dont want the opponent to hit
Huge value
copper pecan
how often does damage prevention even happen nowadays
i can't think of any times i've seen it come up recently outside of specifically the one ring
golden plover
i can't think of any times i've seen it come up recently outside of specifically...
Yeah ever since war they've mostly stopped making fogs
copper pecan
standard could use a fog right now tbh
golden plover
Honestly fogs are fun every once in a while
copper pecan
i think the nexus fog deck from rna really soured them on fogs
tardy echo
This cant even hit wasteland bc they just use it in response
Not what I mean
They don’t want to make lands that are good at hating out other lands very strong
Wasteland and mine are two of the most hated lands in the game
subtle sierra
Hmm i might add one of the new lands into my wish board
Our locals is control turbo and turning off mistrise is kiiinda good
Even if the land sucks
Oh wait no it would turn off mine
Nvm the card sucks, as many have noticed above
sleek ferry
Pretty sure the land is meant to answer shit like shifting woodlands
subtle sierra
i mean yeah
it's also just a different flavour of demolition field to an extent, in regards to dealing with a specific land
it's just that i'm too used to ygo where two sided floodgates don't matter much to you
i'd love this for my specific use case of turning off their mistrise but it turns off mine too, so might as well not
stark skiff
End of the Hunt
1B
Sorcery
Target opponent exiles a creature or Planeswalker they control with the highest mana value among creatures and Planeswalkers they control.
trail anvil
[[blot out]]
lost widgetBOT
trail anvil
so 1 less mana cost for a sorcery, interesting
subtle sierra
never gets old
atomic harness
Word of command cedh @glad peak
glad peak
Hell nah
Also I had to explain to someone again that just because they didnt get to do that one thing they wanted doesn’t mean the game was bad or we’re playing control
subtle sierra
atomic harness
I have a question
[[victimize]] say I target a clone and another guy
can the clone enter as a copy of the other guy
lost widgetBOT
atomic harness
[[phyrexian metamorph]]
lost widgetBOT
Artifact Creature — Phyrexian Shapeshifter
(
can be paid with either 
or 2 life.)
You may have this creature enter as a copy of any artifact or creature on the battlefield, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types.
0/0
past socket
I guess so since they enter at the same time?
subtle sierra
it cannot
If Phyrexian Metamorph somehow enters at the same time as another permanent (due to Mass Polymorph or Liliana Vess's third ability, for example), Phyrexian Metamorph can't become a copy of that permanent. You may choose only a permanent that's already on the battlefield.
atomic harness
Oh alright, I'll pick something else on my field then
Don't ask what's going on this is bracket 2 
subtle sierra
this is fucked with ouroboroid btw
atomic harness
Good stuff little one
subtle sierra
t1 gene pollinator, t2 this, t3 tap this plus pollinator and use at least 2/3 colors for it
atomic harness
Zimic seems rly strong
subtle sierra
we have different definitions of good
i absolutely loathe the card
it previously said have removal or counter or lose
it now says that red cannot remove it
i think having counterplay is a good thing, actually
oh and this says you lose faster, so that's always good
also this isn't really simic specific, everything is green in that
but if you play a second color it's beyond stupid to stare down at a 3/4 power ouro t3
past socket
Esper Reanimation, sounds about right
past socket
All of y’all with your horror stories make me glad how chill my locals and pod is lol
stark skiff
golden plover
This implies that if 1 person doesn't like you they can kill you and your friend while also killing themselves
trail anvil
look at that gigantic-ass lion
smug motherfucker has like 3x the head as everyone else
subtle sierra
This implies that if 1 person doesn't like you they can kill you and your friend...
they also collect money from you
copper pecan
is this what the famous leonin grin looked like
stark skiff
Perfect card for me and @atomic harness wiith our Esper Reanimator strat
atomic harness
Oh that card looks nice
sleek ferry
t1 gene pollinator, t2 this, t3 tap this plus pollinator and use at least 2/3 co...
If you do this, you’re not playing cub on curve, which makes your follow up kinda worse tbh
sleek ferry
So I opened up an FF precon
I’m convinced wizards has never treated an IP with as much care as they did with FF
Because what do you mean every single card has a unique art
- all the basics are full art basics
atomic harness
copper pecan
Because what do you mean every single card has a unique art
they do this for all of the ub precons iirc
i know they did it for the lotr ones
barren cairn
Warhammer I'm p sure too
sleek ferry
Damn, goes to show how much I buy Ub precons ig
subtle sierra
copper pecan
"if someone bullies you, murder them (if they have power 3 or greater)" - wotc, apparently
twilit canyon
ahghhhh lets goo
glad peak
Someone I know was complaining they significantly decreased the power level of the mystical archives and arts look worse
Meanwhile 8/16 revealed archives: good to busted
golden plover
They're definitely a bit more of a mixed bag this time, especially with the pull rates being over halved
But there's still a ton of good cards
Oh hey they remembered Garruk existed
subtle sierra
nice limited kids
glad peak
Imagine not knowing how to play and play around Armageddon
Damn that’s a lot of bangers
glad peak
Oh hey they remembered Garruk existed
Yep gotta set up for that reality fracture episode where he fights himself but with the chain veil
sleek ferry
Oh hey they remembered Garruk existed
This is a good thing ??
Garruk is boring af
And sexist
And probably a homophobe and transphobe
tardy echo
ahghhhh lets goo
HOLY
tardy echo
And probably a homophobe and transphobe
He literally watches over Will and Rowan those are the gayest mtg characters ever created besides nissa and ajani
glad peak
And sexist
He only looks sexist because the person who he has a grudge against, for good reason, is a woman
zinc shard
tardy echo
Oh they really want to make jeskai blink in standard
If only pixie and isolation weren’t rotating
golden plover
God I wish this wasn't 3 mana
tardy echo
Being flash makes it ok for what it is I think
golden plover
Yeah I didn't notice the flash
tardy echo
But for all the blink support in the set there’s not a big payoff the way there is in modern
golden plover
It's like fine